MTG Standard Thread

>>51542132
looks like mardu vehicles best deck

wow what afucking snorefest, it's the same match up over

>>51542320


and a RB Aggro is going 8-0

If someone brews a monored burn this will look like mtg again

Okay so I'm a guy who once kinda dabbed into MTG back during the Mirrodin -> Kamigawa era and saw lately the Eldritch stuff so I kinda decided to slightly get back into the play and make myself a 60-cards deck built around all of this Lovecraft-y stuff (because Lovecraft does sell).
I recently bought a few boosters alone and I'm really interested into making something very thematic. Doesn't have to be a GREAT deck, just something that encompasses the Hints from Innistrad, the Eldrazis, etc.

I still have a shitload of old cards from a lot of old sets (Ice Age, and before too) so I have no qualms about mixing old and new.

Any ideas about a build? Like I said, it's only for occasional playing, I have zero intention of going competitive. If I win, great. If I lose, too bad.

If this is the bad thread, feel free to redirect me.

>>51542483
Needs hardcore control still

>>51542507

Definitely possible with Baral, glimmer and all the counterspells, even if they're not the good one.

>>51542507
How do you get more hard control than UB control? It's 3 torrential gearhulks with a bunch of draw spells, kill spells, and counter spells.

>>51542503
Do you intend to go to standard tournament at game stores or just mess around with more casual friends?

>>51542648
Torrential Gearhulk is a boring win con

>>51542503
This made a good showing in one of the opens, and is fairly cheap. You could probably make it UR only to cut down on the price a bit.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/standard-temur-eldrazi-33096#online

>>51542685
Just mess around with friends. I have board gaming friends who play this stuff and since I got into board gaming fairly recently as well, I just wanted something to play and easy to have with me at all times.

>>51542695
Matches up with control's gameplan, then.
I don't even know why people want super hard control. I remember UW control matchups that had one aetherling, and would jerk off with Sphinx Rev. What a terrible mirror match.

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>>51542132
Snakes and turtles need more luv in mtg.

Jeez, LSV isn't even wearing his ring anymore.

I feel bad for that man.

>>51542784

People like telling other people no. The more they can do it, the more they feel validated.

Any deck with absolutely no interaction required are usually the ones that have the most people like it play it because it literally doesn't require the other person to play with or against.

>>51542892
his wife is butt ugly doe

hes probably sticking fingers in gaby spartz butthole all the time

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/latest-developments/m-files-aether-revolt-part-1-2017-02-03
For Felidar Guardian:
>We did miss the interaction with Saheeli
>this is not the kind of deck we would intentionally take a risk with.

>>51542914
Definitely agree, she's atrocious. He does have a newborn baby though..

>>51542918
>RnD missed that interaction

That's unbelievably stupid of them

>>51542503
This is probably the best deck with mostly inn. stuff.

http://decks.tcgplayer.com/magic/standard/shane-coy/u-b-zombies/1275695

There are so many magic cards. No real way to tell you what to do unless you have a start.

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>>51542830

I agree. Maybe one day we'll be back

>>51542918
RIP cat. We hardly knew ye. Hopefully Copycat doesn't completely dominate.

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>>51542483

It did actually go 8-0, I'm amazed at how good it works

>>51542946
They've made this fucking combo so many times you'd think they'd have the template inked in their heads. But nope, they keep "missing" it.

>>51543013
I hope it does. The human deck makes it cry.

>>51542892
Sweet. I thought he looked out of it today, so that's why. If that cunt is unhappy, it makes my day a bit better.

>>51543013
>RIP cat. We hardly knew ye. Hopefully Copycat doesn't completely dominate.

It's about 30% of the meta online, and that share is probably going to rise after the protour.

>>51542503
Include westvale abbey

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This might be the worst thing youtube has ever recommended me, and it's all your fault, /tg/

Has gearseeker serpent been seeing play in improvise decks?

>>51542918
I thought they did not design for modern.
Eh i suppose its just speculation more then things they are going to consider with the card

EEF: I like this. Is it expensive enough that people won't counter fetch land activations with it in Modern?
That actualy sounds like it could be a cool interaction i would not be worried about it in modern to much at 2 lands already it is not that big a loss.

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>>51542918
>SVE: This the kind of card we should be spending our "Awesome Impactful Single-Word Name" capital on.
Agreed
Ricochet was not one of those cards though.

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>>51542132
just got into magic, love the lore more than anything else, particularly anything Serra related, dunno why but her story tugs the old heartstrings, i'm already building a pure angel tribe deck based mostly around the serra type angels, but is there anywhere i can get more lore on the character and her realm?

>>51542132
How the hell did snek become a deck? What does it do that Hardened Scales doesn't?

>>51547613
Well, it's a body that you can put counters on, and there are just better counter stuff in standard right now. Outlast a shit.

>>51542918
When is someone going to can this fat fuck? He must be sweating even more profusely than normal given that his oversight of standard has led to the most cancerous past few years of Standard that I can remember since original Affinity

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>>51542918
Post yfw they ban saheli instead of the cat.

>>51548022
She's gonna tank in price either way and that's what upsets people.
Nobody cares when they ban a $0.49 card.

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https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/5rxmqk/kai_budde_on_pt_combat_shortcut/

MTG players are so scummy even at a pro level.

>>51549512
>Saying "Combat" means you skip your combat step priority

the fuck is this bullshit?

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>>51549512

even in the ruling article the comments (by judges) contradict the rule itself

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>>51542483
>If someone brews a monored burn this will look like mtg again
you can just play grixis madness if you want to go face with spells. thermo-alchemist, collective brutality, alms and temper. get some.

got to play it in a 3-rounder tonight.
>2-0 Mardu Aggro
>2-1 GB Snake
>1-2 UR Deep Fiend

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I love Torrential Gearhulk: the Gathering! 5555
Seriously, fuck this game now.

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>>51550159
>>51550009
>>51549512

>ESL player says Combat means already declare attackers before pre-combat
>Everyone says it's legit

Did I get that right? Does this mean everyone has to say 'pre-combat' now before actually declaring attackers?

>>51542483
>>51543061
Player name, so I can take a look at it? Bought B/R recently, thought it was fucked when Smug-Cops got banned. I'd be interested in seeing this deck.

>>51551481

The 'go to combat?' shortcut goes to Beginning Of Combat AND passes priority to the inactive player. If the Inactive Player then also passes, we go to Declare Attackers.

There is no reason for the Active Player to do things in the Beginning Of Combat step; it exists for the Inactive Player to do things.

Otherwise: if Active Player said "go to combat?" and inactive player responded "Cryptic, tap draw", Active Player could allow Cryptic Command to resolve, then activate their creature lands and attack with them.

>>51553269
>activate their creature lands and attack with them

er, wrong example

that should be "play a haste creature" since the issue is still being in Main Phase 1

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>>51553082
Segovia, almost got fucked by a rules lawyering, which sucks cause it was a shit call but he did make a trigger fuck up as well, but proceeded to shit in his opponent the next to games straight, 8-0 beating out even GB aggro snek

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Just cracked open a masterpiece Trinisphere. Should I hang on to it or sell it now? I feel like it could be worth some money some day.

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>fight saheeli
>didn't even know he was playing saheeli until game 2 because I just out-aggroed him so hard with r/b zombies
>naturally draw into answers against the combo next game
>saheeli never stays on the board for more than a second
Lightning axe and fiery temper are so based.

>>51549512
What Budde said. I have played since Alara though rarely above FNM competitively and out of the countless of games i've played, asking 'Combat? / Combat phase?' was and still is considered as 'Let's go to the beginning of combat'.

>>51555219
Apparently they want you to explicitly say you are not passing priority and are not moving into declare attackers, which is absurd.

>>51555415
Yeah that's weird, because literally no one jump to declare attack even if they don't have anything to do in the beginning of combat phase.
>AP : Combat?
>NAP : Sure
>AP : Well, i have nothing to do. Declare attack?
>NAP : Sure
That's what usually goes when i play.

>>51544802

>DesolatorMagic

Just seeing his name fucking triggers me

How does someone this stupid even breathe?

I hope the RB Zombie standard dredge deck makes a top 8. 3/4 for players on that deck made day 2 with good match points so I'm having some hope.

>>51542132
>PT Stream
>Team interview
>Our team is more equal and more better.

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>>51542132
Guys, help me out here. Is there a reason why there are almost no men represented on any of the cards? All of the good guys are women too.

Am I missing something? Is kaladesh matriarchal?

>>51557963

>muh representation

you are as bad as the people you complain about.

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>>51557963
It's because you're a shitty neckbearded troglodyte looking for a reason to complain and blending it out the plenty of men that are on cards to better fit the narrative you constructed in your little brain.

>>51558124
>>51558104
But those men are mostly non-human

I don't mind more representation at all, and I'm black, if that means anything to you

I'm just wondering if there's an lore reason for the overabundance of women in this particular block

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>>51558163
>and I'm black, if that means anything to you
Oh, I'm sure you are. And there's no overabundance. Just equal representation. Which probably feels like overabundance to neckbeards who aren't used to seeing women that aren't just window dressing appearing in fantasy products. Is it too much too sudden? Eh, not really. You had plenty of time getting used to more women appearing in Magic products. You gotta pull the band-aid at some point.

>>51558236
You're really misunderstanding me.

None of the good guy legendary creatures or planes walkers are male humans. I'm asking why that is.

Also it's not equal representation. I was looking through the block today and realized how incredibly few men there are on cards. Trust me, waaay less than half

>>51558259
You actually counted? How fucking obsessed are you with this shit? Did all this fucking /pol/ shit actually get to your head and make you feel persecuted?

>>51558289
I didn't count. Go look through the set, it's unavoidably obvious

I was looking through the set because I haven't played in a while and was thinking of getting back into it since the next set is apparently Egyptian themed

I've always hated sexed up women in stuff. Actually, I really like the art style and character designs in this set, I'm just wondering why there are so few men. Is it this block? Is it gonna be an ongoing theme with wizards from now on? I just wanna know.

No idea why you're getting so angry tho

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>>51558163
>But those men are mostly non-human

Question: who gives a shit?

Hey fat/tg/uys what is the profit margin as a business on this whole card thing? Do any of you know?

>>51558334
Well, considering the vast majority of their player base is male, it's a strange decision from a business perspective.

I'm just wondering if there's a reason for it. Horizon Zero Dawn for example is based on matriarchal society, so it makes sense that most of the prominent good guys are female

I just wanna know if kaladesh has a reason like that

No need to be so defensive guys

>>51558369
Richard Garfield found it pretty high.

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>>51558333
Last block had two female villains, if that puts you more at ease. And the heroes are all the same for every single block (which is actually awful, since most of them are terribly written, but let's not get into that). It's just that one of the women from the hero team is born on the plane this block takes place on, so her and her mom (her dad was killed) are a big focus of the card art.

>>51558390
Well I am talking about coming from the prospective of a commercial business. I work as an inventory analyst for an e-commerce business looking to diversify.

>>51558398
Yea, it's pretty cool to see a mom/daughter relationship, it's surprisingly rare in fiction. Still a waste of a cool character in Kiran tho

But it's not just her, it's all of the good guy legends. They're all female, or dwarf/blue guy

I just hope it's not a trend. I liked Inn2 and how it had a large number of females on card art, but I don't want it to be overwhelmingly female.

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>>51558441
You know, back in the day dudes would've loved to identify with a dwarf hero. Now they feel threatened, because they think it means they're not treated equally. This entire world is going to shit.

>>51558488
...or maybe I'm trying to figure out an answer to my question.

>>51557963
>>51558504
It's highly likely you're trolling at this point, but I'll humor you without freaking out lime other anons have been.

Why are there so many women depicted in the Kaladesh set?

>Theory 1
There's no reason. It's just higher than usual. WotC art department just acqujred more female art than male art.

>Theory 2
WotC is branching out to appeal to women. More women in cards = more representation = more female players = higher profits--at least, in theory. Most male players either won't notice or care.

Now, please stop shitting up the thread.

>>51558697
>most male players won't notice or care

Except, marketing disagrees with you. People like to be represented in the things that they buy, whether it be beer or novels or whatever else.

Going by traditional wisdom/history, make players are likely to both notice and care. If they pick up more female players (an untapped but also risky market) then it'll work out for them, but it's also likely to backfire

I know I for one have little to no interest in this set since their are few cards that appeal to me mechanically or aesthetically.

I'll leave the thread since I got my answer, but you guys should really stop treating everyone frustrated with modern gender wars as retards from /pol/. Some of us just want equal representation in the mediums we like to enjoy. It's why I'm glad there are more black characters in general now.

>>51558767
>Some of us just want equal representation in the mediums we like to enjoy.

Kill yourself, mate. Or go join Tumblr where they give a shit about things like that.

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>>51542918
>be new to mtg
>playing with an obnoxious cunt at my LGS
>playing my first and beloved BG Artifacts build
>testing it for the first time
>be excited because my board is almost as good as I want it, everything going great
>have 20 life, opponent has 5
>have a 4/7 Marionette master and a bunch of tiny artifacts
>opponent has only around 9 lands
>his turn, thinking to myself "I got this!"
>summons Saheeli
>summons cat
>"gg re?"

fuck this gay interaction

>>51558767
It really doesn't matter what gender they make as main characters, they are all terribly written.

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>>51548022
>mfw they ban the snek instead

>>51559317
You should have killed your opponent faster.

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I see Wizards is still butthurt about Twoo.
>Won't mention match results
>Won't even show his team's pic

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>>51559513

>yfw they ban snek AND the saheli

>>51555052
How are you killing Saheeli with Lightning Axe? Plus she can +1 before you get a chance to Fiery Temper so she can def stay on the board.

>>51559826
... Seriously? Not him but play the cat, bounce the saheeli to start the combo, saheeli at 3 again,-2 the cat to continue, at this moment, on top of the stack lightning axe the cat and pitch temper, using tempers madness cost for r kill off the 1 loyalty saheeli, or just hard cast temper the saheeli and have a hasty cat bounce another permanent that's not dead and normal CST to deal with.

>>51558767
Please kys.

>>51559930
He din't mention the cat at all.

>>51560043
It's implied considering you kind of need the cat to actually go off, cmon now man, also happy as shit one of my deck concepts made a 100% conversion rate to day 2

>>51559317
if you had a Walking Ballista you could have used it to kill the Saheeli Rai with it's -2 ability on the stack. if you're on artifacts you need 4 of that card.

>>51560077
Or straight ping the guy for one, killing ur ballista and draining for the last 4 of dmg. Good thing I got the ballistas for 5$ a pop, :D

>>51560074
The combo has become only a part of the deck and not its only focus, Gearhulk beatdown is another aspect of the deck that can become a threat with Saheeli providing copies of Gearhulks and card quality for those flashbacked Glimmers.
I concede that FT and LA are answers to the combo but that's not what he was saying.
To say that FT and LA are answers to Saheeli means that you (as the BR zombies player) were probably facing someone who's not very good with the deck.

>Play GB delirium splashing R for some planeswalkers and UnlicensedD.
>Go to AER comes along
>Open 2 Ballistas, 3 Snakes, 1 Rishkar and finally get 4 Grim Flayers
Should I focus on the grindier BG aggro with Planeswalkers, Ishkanah and others, or go to BG counters?

>>51560389
Literally just said I'm not the zombi player and if you look at the match ups, even saheeli decks have trouble vs aggro since it is a control variant and control has always been the paper to aggros scissors. Why do you think their conversion rate was so poor from day one to two?

Hey, I'm putting together a Metalwork Colossus deck because it dodges a lot of the popular removal like Fatal Push, Lightning Axe, and Grasp of Darkness. Does anyone have some good or spicy tech to spruce up this list?

Creatures:
4 Foundry Inspector
4 Thraben Inspector
4 Hedron Crawler
4 Metalwork Colossus
4 Gearseeker Serpent
2 Cataclysmic Gearhulk

Artifacts
2 Corruted Grafstone
4 Cultivator's Caravan
4 Hedron Archive
4 Cogworker's Puzzleknot

Lands (24)
2 Inventors' Fair
4 Spire of Industry
9 Island
9 Plains

Sideboard:
2 Ceremonious Rejection
4 Fragmentize
4 Negate
2 Imprisoned in the Moon
3 Fumigate

What do you guys think of MTGO?

Do you think MTGO could improve?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZh0nH7pPMk

Does anyone here remember the number of viewers for the previous pro tour? It'd be interesting to compare. Presently, they're about to make the top 8 announcements, and they have about 27 k viewers. Seems a bit low, desu.

>>51560577
Sorry, I wanted to avoid the case where it seems like I was implying you are the original anon, the internet just makes it hard to talk in the second person about a third person related to the discussion.

Yeah, BR zombies (and any other real aggro deck) is a bad matchup for the Saheeli decks, but that has to do more with the way they can flood the board and outright ignore the combo (since by itself is just two cards that do nothing against a bunch of decaying corpses mauling you to death, not to mention that you can only have 4 of each piece), FT and LA have very little to do with win% in that match.

>>51560711
Viewership has been on a decline since Oath's PT. The decisions WotC made with respect to removing modern PT's, making Standard PT days 3 rounds of draft +5 standard, only reporting a fraction of the results for MTGO, and finally reducing the money Pros get for showing up, all of those factors have really hurt the comunity. That's not even mentioning how boring it was to watch "tap marvel, shit out a free Emrakul now you have no way to get out of this" matches.

wtf i love brazilians now

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>>51560884

What happened?

>>51559773
Why would they ever ban a super-cool Mythic Rare Planeswalker™? Its the face of the set, they really should get rid of those nasty, powerful, oppressive uncommons that don't sell packs like reflector mage and felidar guardian. Powerful cards that aren't rare or mythic are a mistake.

So, any new breakout cards?

>>51560389
Player here. I thought it was implied that the axe can take care of most of the creatures while the temper takes care of saheeli herself. It can't oneshot gearhulk, but if the player ever blocks with it or I get to block the gearhulk itself, it's a goner.

Their banter is extremely cringeworthy, desu.

>>51560953
brazilian dude made it to top 8 and seems to be genuinely overjoyed with his team that he made it

they started dancing around and chanting. kinda cringey, but its nice to see some energy compared to the usual sterility of how pros act

>>51561042
nope! cars and snake decks!

>>51561042
look at the decks with a >75% conversion to day 2

>http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/ptaer/pro-tour-aether-revolt-day-two-standard-metagame-breakdown-2017-02

its cars and snake decks with some weird 1-of decks thrown in. the only cat combo deck with 75% or higher conversion to day 2 was 4c Aetherworks Copycat with 6 out of 8 total decks making day 2.

>>51561042
Not really. It's been a surprisingly boring tournament; I can't remember being so uninterested in a PT before.

>>51561266
same. i actually just don't care about the format right now. modern and legacy are infinitely more interesting to me, but those aren't PT formats.

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>>51542918

>One thing we have attempted to do in sets recently is to find places to get our Planeswalker characters onto cards at the highest frequency possible

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>>51561402
Please don't be disrespectful of the story. You might not care, but others do!

Desolator was right! Only broken infinite combos in the top8. Especially Saheeli!

>>51559773
yfw saheeli hardly touches the top 8 and everything works out just fine.

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>>51560516
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/regular-gb-delirium
Bump, do I need more sorceries or Enchantments or should I go in the direction of BG Snek-Delirium?

>>51561669
>fine

I would rather have had a table full of nothing but control and midrange decks than 6/8 decks being the least interactive most brainless archetype, what the fuck were they actually thinking with vehicles?

>>51561852
they try to come up with a new gimmick every set to sell packs. thats it

>>51561896
this one was particularly awful

>dude everyone likes artifacts right? they totally aren't the most hated card type in the entire game!
>now what if we made artifact creatures that weren't creatures on the opponents turn so they could only be interacted with at instant speed?
>now what if we took these creatures with sorcery immunity and game them some of the best/most powerful effects we can possibly think of
>now what if we make it so that they cost 1-3 mana

brilliant

>>51542892
>>51544046
What happened with LSV? I was wondering why I've barely heard anything from him recently. Going through a divorce or something?

>>51558163
>But those men are mostly non-human
that does not matter
>I'm just wondering if there's an lore reason for the overabundance of women in this particular block
actualy your right that is odd even gender ratio but there are far more female humans then male humans I do wonder if there is a reason behind that

>>51561852
Did you forget this game was designed to be fun? You don't have to net deck all the time and if it bothers you just play a different format/game. ?

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>>51561140

what if we took the snakes and put them IN cars?

>>51560634
I side out Foundry Inspector most of the time, its good in a race against another combo but not much else. I was Blue Black with heavy colourless specific cards like Matter Reshaper and haven't updated it at all for the new set (except cutting helicopters)

>>51558767
>Except, marketing disagrees with you. People like to be represented in the things that they buy, whether it be beer or novels or whatever else.

Eh I don't think its as important as people make it out to be now a days. Take a look at Japan, all of its anime culture (and I'm counting anime/manga/videogames) is female characters and fans will get mad if guys are to important sometimes.

And until you brought it up I had never noticed how many woman were on the art of Kaladesh carda. Though I think Wizards has been pandering too much to the social justice crowd in general.

guys whaddya recommend playing for rptq amonkhet

>>51562289
but if I don't net deck all the time then I won't win all the time
and winning is 100% of the fun
also im not spending $100,000 to play modern which is the only other format I would ever thing of trying

already can't wait for Amonket hopefully they print some serious artifact and agro hate so the game can be fun again

>>51555415
>Apparently they want you to explicitly say you are not passing priority and are not moving into declare attackers, which is absurd.

why?

what are going to do in Beginning Of Combat as Active Player?

>>51562624
use all your "at the beginning of combat effects" and crew vehicles

Any hot spicy drama this PT other than that shitty rules lawyering?

>>51562651

just say 'go to combat, these abilities trigger'

and never fucking crew during BoC, are you a moron? Crew in your main phase so you can play sorcery speed effects after the opponent responds.

That Jund energy looks fun, I might pick it up.

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What if we take Snake, put in lots of small energy-creators and finally put in ramp with Rishkar to Ulamog with Aetherworks backup? Too many moving pieces?

>wizards banning a planeswalker for standard.

Planeswalkers open to many packs for them.

This is exactly what the retailers and WotC want.

Can it really be called mardu vehicles if it's only splashing black to pay for unlicensed disintegration and scrapheep's recursion cost? This has been bothering me for a while. Things like bant energy where the only U card is in the sideboard as rejection.

>>51562776

I cast Radiant Flames converge 3

>>51562833
boros black sounds way better desu

>>51562691
if you want to crew with toolcraft exemplar you are crewing at the beginning of combat

>>51562877

which happens after a BoC trigger, so the shortcut is irrelevant

>>51562841
but the whole thing vs snek is that radiant flames suck cock

it being on the field for more than 1 turn means that pretty much every creature that comes out beyond that point are going to be 4 HP or higher

its why mardu vehicles was so successful this weekend because the decks that would run radiant flames to take a hot dump on them were forced to run more fumigates and single target removal spells to deal with snek decks

>>51562897
the fuck are you talking about?

>>51562897
Weldfast Engineer then
that was the card that was in question with the ruling anyway

>>51562914

the 'go to combat' shortcut is used in the first Main Phase, and takes you to Beginning Of Combat, passing priority to your opponent.

If you go to combat and put triggered abilities on the stack then you have not passed priority over an empty stack, so the opponent passing priority back does not advance the game state to Declare Attackers.

>>51562963
That's the whole point of the complaints?
Because the fucking judges ruled that saying combat? immediately made you miss all your beginning of combat triggers.

>>51562960

If you go to Beginning Of Combat with an uncrewed vehicle, you CAN NOT TARGET YOUR VEHICLE WITH WEDLFAST ENGINEER.

The triggered ability goes on the stack BEFORE you receive priority, so you can target a vehicle since it is not a creature.

>>51547613
Be a bear and gives you free energy.

>>51562992
>Because the fucking judges ruled that saying combat? immediately made you miss all your beginning of combat triggers.

That's why you put your triggers on the stack before passing priority.

>Go to combat, this triggers
is fine
>Go to combat?
>OK
>These trigger
is not

>>51562994
right but the ruling was that he missed the trigger entirely
he didn't get to give anything the +2 because he went straight to declaring attackers and skipped the beginning of combat

>>51563042

then perhaps before he goes to the Pro Tour he should learn how to play Magic The Gathering according to competitive rules enforcement?

This was specifically introduced to prevent bullshit plays that had been happening before.

>>51563022
Since time immemorial, combat? always means move to the beginning of combat.

>>51563069

until the 'go to combat?' shortcut was introduced, to cut down on bullshit wording games

>>51563069

and if you play in a casual environment that doesn't use competitive REL, why do you care what shortcuts are used in that environment?

>>51563060
while I agree the whole point of this was that
A. It was the guy's first pro tour ever
B. English was not his native language
and
C. he got hosed over a ruling that is way out of date and the origin of this rule was to prevent shifty rules lawyering shit but it was used for explicitly that purpose

expect the rule to be changed to reflect the current card climate

>>51563130
>expect the rule to be changed to reflect the current card climate
with so many backlash, it will.

>>51563130

Learn how to play Magic before you go to a Pro Tour.

And this wasn't shifty rules lawyering, he just made a mistake.

The problem this exists to prevent is deliberately misleading your opponent about the game state.

>>51563151
duh

end of the day though this is very, very minor and will affect ~0.1% of players

>>51563168

Given that the person curb stomped the other player in games 2 and 3, maybe they weren't the one who needed to learn how to play Magic.

>>51563151

what backlash? I have heard no players this effects complain about it.

If all you play is FNM this doesn't impact you in any way.

Please stop trying to make life more irritating for competitive players because you don't understand the rules of play.

>>51563168
no this was shifty rules lawyering through and through

opponent knew exactly what he wanted to due
intention was clear of what he wanted to do
he even went to crew his vehicles and then do what he fully intended to do while he was saying the words go to combat

then we get into a semantic argument about exactly when something was said and what it means when the intent is what really mattered

all that needed to change to make the play work was him saying different words, not him playing different cards or sequencing or anything it was literally just the words that came out of his mouth

basically the rules should be changed to prioritize player intent rather than what they speak in english

>>51563229
>all that needed to change to make the play work was him saying different words

so his opponent did nothing, and it was his own fault

>basically the rules should be changed to prioritize player intent rather than what they speak in english

So now I have to play Magic for my opponent?

Making mistakes is a part of the game.

>>51563206
I trust that Kai Budde is a more influential competitive player than you anon.

>>51563267
no the opponent called a judge at the first moment he could

and no you don't have to play for your opponent
you should just respect the intent of your opponent as he does to you
if you had a clear intent to do something then he shouldn't be all up on your ass like "JUDGE THIS OBSCURE RULE FORM 10+ YEARS AGO THAT HAS LITTLE TO NO RELEVANCE IN THE CURRENT METAGAME ABOUT THE VERBIAGE HE USED IS IN MY FAVOR FOR THIS INSTANCE PLEASE DO SOMETHING" when in 99/100 cases if the player didn't explicitly remember that rule to try and buy his way out of a bad situation a level 3 judge watching the game wouldn't have even made that call because he recognized player intent as a non-bias overseer

>>51563386
Nah he's right. The rules are the rules despite your intentions.
It will be changed soon though, and i'll just be glad that the chink lost that game.

>>51563451
I agree the rules are rules and I am not saying that he should have been allowed to do what he wanted to do but I am saying that the rules should be changed to better support player intent rather than emphasizing memorizing multiple obscure rules so that you can cheese wins

>>51563451

Be a good sport you fucking subhuman or stick to your anime waifu video games and stop playing Magic.

>>51563206
Actually a few pros and even judges are against that ruling and even count it as unethical, basically saying that it punishes players that don't speak perfect English, and as well as causes confusion as shown here. And the whole point is when he said move to combat, his assumption due to not being a native speaker and not realizing this rule existed, he assumed this phrase indicated his passing of priority in main phase as to ascertain his priority in beginning of combat phase, which the way it's worded makes perfect sense. He may have flubbed on the trigger for welded, but he didn't forget it, so at this point he clearly was pointing to an illegal target, at this point he should have just been told he couldn't choose that as a target, and had to choose either the scrappers or none, as rule dictates, but then the whole 'moves to combat' thing was brought up and apparently meant he missed all the triggers, despite him trying to clearly fire off the trigger then and there. There are AND have been a lot of beginning of combat triggers in recent standard dating back to goblin rabble master, and even interactions like convoke and jeskai ascendancy that would affect it, and even now to things like toolcraft exemplar and welded to buff a creature and then use it to crew a bigger creature, so to say there is nothing at the beginning of combat that needs to be done that can't be done in main phase is pretty fucking ludicrous and ignorant overall.

>>51563451
Tell me where on the rules says that saying "combat" means you're moving to the declare attackers step please. If he had said "attack" or just turned his guys sideways and pushed them forward then ok, declare attackers step, but saying "combat" has been and currently is a way to give your opponent a chance to react while you're still on your main phase. Hell, check the archives for PT Khans and you can even hear a lot of guys calling out "combat" because acting in the first main phase was relevant for the innactive player because Rabblemaster existed, in that environment saying "combat" was never ruled as meaning you move to declare attackers step and you always got your goblin token. Have the rules for shortcuts have changed since then? No? Then this ruling is obviously wrong and Nguyen should have even gotten a Warning for trying to rules lawyer his opponent.

>>51563646
>A statement such as “I’m ready for combat” or “Declare attackers?” offers to keep passing priority until an opponent has priority in the beginning of combat step. Opponents are assumed to be acting then unless they specify otherwise.
mtr 4.2

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Hahahahhahahahhahahahahaha

Wow, great standard. Glad those cards got banned. It really helped.

I just heard that once again the judges are incompetent, other formats dont have to deal with this kind of bullshit either. Enjoy your "pro" tour standard fuckboys.

>>51563451
>despite your intentions
It's been 8+ years since the whole "ruling on intent" improvements for judges. His intent was crystal clear, this isn't an Esper Charm issue.

It's a bad ruling using an antiquated rule no matter how you slice it.

>>51563810
"Combat" (Phase) != "I'm ready for combat" (Step).
Should saying "Main" after you draw be understood as passing priority to your opponent during your main phase? It's the same case here, it was completely clear that he meant "I will now proceed to conduct my Combat Phase" (because he was acting as if he was in the combat phase with no pause after he said the word) and not I will proceed to the Declare attackers step (because he was not attacking with his creatures yet).
Notice that at 5:16 you can hear "Combat" and when Thien calls the judge at 5:32 he first asks "If he goes to combat can he still crew?" here the judge would have answered yes, but the judge can't hear him well and then Thien notices that the way he had worded it (which is correct mind you) would not give him an advantage in the game and changes his wording to "He declared combat and he's trying to crew" at 5:41. Of course the Panamanian can't keep up with the conversation in english (notice that those headphones they made them wear can interfere with hearing) and as such can't tell the judge "that's not exactly what I said, my exact wording was just one word "combat"".

To protest the players on camera should go through each step and priority with no shortcuts.

>>51564704
No, actually what this entices is for players to not talk at all. You want to attack? Just tap your guys sideways, this puts more pressure on your opponent because now he needs to keep track of a lot of things plus stopping you and telling you to go back. Lesson is Never give your opponent ta chance to talk to a judge at all.

>>51564480
>google Esper Charm issue.
>SCG article on top result
>read it

What the fuck?

Is there a place where we can go to get a list of all official shortcuts in mtg.

So what actually happened? As I understand it, vehicle player said "combat" and tapped something to crew something. Other player immediately called judge, on the basis that he thought vehicle player was declaring attackers, skipping beginning of combat step and judge ruled with him for whatever reason?
But there's also something about missing a trigger that had to happen, which would be a valid judge call?
Do I have that right?

Jund in Standard?
4 Grim Flayer
4 Sylvan Advocate
4 Scrapheap Scrounger
3 Tireless Tracker
2 Kalitas
2 Verdurous Gearhulk

3 Heart of Kiran
4 Unlicensed Disintegration
2 Shock
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4 Fatal Push

4 Aether Hub
4 Blooming Marsh
4 Hissing Quagmire
2 Game Trail
2 Foreboding Ruins
3 Forest
3 Mountain
2 Swamp

Now that I look at it, it's way too greedy with the double coloured symbols.
Wish I had money for this

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>>51565029
twitch videos 119438395
Skip to 4:55.
The spanish player's intention was to crew with the ability on the stack (a legal move). He only says "combat" before his actions and before a judge is called. Takes like 10 minutes before everything is cleared. They eventually get a spanish speaking judge to make things easier.

>>51565029
twitch tv/videos/119438395
Start watching at 5:00. Segovia screwed up when he asked Nguyen if he could crew his vehicle, if he had just crewed the vehicle and proceeded to attack everything would have been fine.

What everyone is getting mad for is that we have been saying "Combat" and that has meant "I proceed to the beginning of combat step while retaining priority", you have done it while playing with your friends, we have done that at FNM's, people have done it a GP's and PT's, even the comentator says he has a good point because he had a beginning of combat trigger.
Apparently we all have been doing it wrong but no-one had called a judge over that in the 12 years that that ruling has existed.

What should happen after this gets sorted out is that players should be limited in the number of times they can call a judge to the table or there should be a detriment to just calling a judge on your opponent just because you can. As it is now a player like Nguyen can call a judge on you for any reason and see if it sticks, and most likely it's what happened here since you can see the look of surprise on Nguyen's face at 6:55.
The rules should not be used as a weapon, and there should be a punishment if you try to do so.

>>51565390
When I say limit it I mean something akin to the system they use for the NFL where you can challenge the rulings 3 times but if you're right you don't spend that cartridge. But instead of challenging the rulings it would be calling a judge.

>>51565390
That is a bad idea. Despite taking advantage of a foreign speaker, he was right.

I bet there is a penalty or some sort of recourse for player calling judges to harass the opponents.

Hey guys, me and my friends wanted to start playing magic and we were wondering what was the best way to approach the game.
Should we buy some prebuilt, search for decks and buy singles or buy a booster box togheter?

>>51565532
Look for something called a deckbuilder's toolkit. Build 40 card decks out of it and play eachother. If you want to get more involved start watching some standard tournament games and buy singles. Consider drafting at local stores. It's a good way to get good and get more cards.

Recognize that buying sealed product for more cards is -always- bad EV.

>>51565532
if you want to buy a booster box, draft/sealed that shit.

>>51565566
Thanks for the advices, I'll keep in mind.
One last thing: I read online that some stores give you a free deck if you just started playing.
Do they give you a deck from the last expansion or some basic stuff?
I know I sound like a total jew, but considering the cost of this game, every saved penny is worth a try.

>>51565532
I would fin make sure everyone has found a deck that the think they like, and proxy it up. run it through to see if you actually like it. Then buy singles to start the deck.

Also I know you might be tempted to skimp money on the mana base, do not do that.

>>51565673
They're like 30 card decks worth .50 each. I don't think most stores even bother with them (or if they're still offered.) You can build better stuff with free bulk commons sitting around most stores.

>>51565673

Yeah, it's a thing. Ask the store if they have any "Welcome Decks." They are decks with cards that you and your friend can play against each other. They wouldn't be standard-legal but it'd be a way to get practice and games in for free.

However, watch out because some stores charge for Welcome Decks, and some stores don't have welcome decks because people just take them all to be assholes.

>>51564817
The take away is that you need to be sure, at any event PPTQ/GP or higher, to make your intent extremely clear. In the case of the Esper Charm, it wasn't all that clear. With the combat thing, it was pretty fucking obvious what he was trying to do. Cedric's article after the Esper Charm thing definitely made sense, as he stopped his opponent to clarify, but Thien was clearly in the wrong.

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>seen here, WoTC after Mardu Vehicles take 6 slots of the top 8

Who wants to put odds on Gideon eating the next ban?

Okay. Let me see if I get this straight.

If I say "Combat?" it means I skip the Beginning of Combat, and cut straight to Declare Attackers.

What do I say to go to the Beginning of combat?

>>51566146

"At the beginning of combat, before I declare attackers, I... [insert action here]"

>>51566146
Verbally declaring attackers designates that we have entered the declare attackers step, at least to me.

>>51566146
i end my main phase

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Is this really all that good?

Didn't feel like picking up a playset since I felt that it would cost too much to make it worthwhile

>>51566358
Are two for one's good? Do you like getting even the tiniest bit of value of every play you make? Do you have ways to get him more +1/+1 counters? Do you like MOTHER-FUCKING SNAKES ON A MOTHER-FUCKING PLANE!? Do you like having on-board disruption for combos? If you answered yes to at least one of those questions, then yes it's good.

>>51566484
He is required in the snake deck. You can go without in things like mardu, but you'll lose more often to the saheeli combo

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I think all of the missed triggers and phases could have been avoided if the Protour had something like a chess clock. Like how in MTGO there's an indicator what phase is it right now.

>>51566578
The time clock would be impossible to play with IRL, players already have to keep track of a million moving pieces and even without a clock we miss a lot of triggers. It only works on MTGO because everything is automated, imagine playing a deck with a lot of triggers and activated abilities (such as the aforementioned Mardu Vehicles deck) it would be hell to keep bouncing on the fucking clock.

>>51566484
>>51566534
This would be for RB aggro but I feel like hes not needed at all.

Would rather run more removal and/or burn honestly.

>>51566703
I mean, not playing him will make your deck worse if that's what you're asking. If you can't afford him, the deck is still okay.

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Anyone else playing this card?

>>51542830
I'm trying to understand the point of that picture but I don't get it. None of those cards interact in any interesting way with each other.

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>>51563022
>>51562963
>>51562992
>Because the fucking judges ruled that saying combat? immediately made you miss all your beginning of combat triggers.

What the fuck? I'm a L1 judge, and I've attended conferences where they specifically tell us to assume triggers already happened even if the player having the trigger doesn't announce it, as long as they express they're aware the trigger happened.

Like Steppe Lynx from Zendikar. If active player controls it, drops a fetch, then directly attack with Lynx without saying a word, the opponent must always assume the landfall has triggered. The logic behind this is to prevent gotcha moments and discourage opponents from rule sharking everything. We were told to treat disputes like this in Modern specifically so.

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Boo hoo everyone please pity me I struggled with depression and had suicidal thoughts and I may relapse because of all these bad comments criticizing me for rulesharking a player who isn't good at English

Also I'm totally not sorry for what I did. Suck it nerds.

>>51567820
Less of a faggot then the guy that got zach jesse banned at least.

>>51567820
Holy shit, what a massive faggot.

>>51567897
That's hardly fair, nobody can be a bigger faggot than Drew Levin.

>>51567661
the art is nice tho

>>51567820
>rulesharking
It's the fucking PT, why would you not want the rules to be enforced as strictly as possible?
He's a faggot for crying for sympathy but still

>>51568047
If you want to ruleshark then you should have the balls to be branded as an asshole, like Ari Lax for example.

>>51567974
Come to think of it don't the tournament rules specifically forbid calling for harassment of your opponents on social media.

>>51568288
Not if he's branded as a rapist by Drew Levin.

http://wpn.wizards.com/sites/wpn/files/attachements/mtg_mtr_20jan17_en.pdf

page 23 has a list on what some shortcuts are assumed to do. Wish I had know that was a thing prior to every gp I have ever gone to.

>>51567785
That's not the case for triggers that have targets since you need to call out targets, if you don't call it then you missed it.

>>51565979
0%

next ban list
Felidar Guardian
Torrential Gearhulk

RND comment: We thought that these cards were oppressing and punishing players that like to turn their cards sideways too much
please play more hardcore brainless agro decks so that people don't have to think and all games boil down to who draws the better hand and who is on the play

thank you

>>51570102
Aggro hasn't made such a large showing at the pro tour top 8 for over a decade, but don't let that stop you from posting more le tappening XD memes.

Actually, has an aggro deck been the deck to beat since ravager? Every other "best" deck since then has been ramp, combo, control, midrange, or a countersliver variant.

>>51570310
that's actually a fair assessment
I hadn't really thought about it but yeah agro hasn't really performed well at many of the recent pro tours

I am just pissed because out of all the agro Vehicle agro is by far the least interesting/interactive

vehicles were a mistake

>>51570310
>>51570332

to be fair, I don't think there is a single deck in the Top 8 that uses blue cards, which is pretty fucked up in an age where three-color-decks rule.

>>51570430
I would have been more than happy to see some kind of vampire or warewolf deck but it had to be just dumb artifact vehicle value white humans/dwarves

which is about as bland and boring as it can possibly get

I wish they would have done a better job with vampires and warewolves from innistrad so we could have some actually cool agro decks

also we had a cool blue agro deck last format in B/W flash but they thought that it crushed timmy strats to much with reflector mage so he had to go

I honestly wish that they would just stop giving white and green so many fucking tools and maybe be willing to give some actually powerful early game creatures to blue and red that focused less on the agro strats and more on control strats

we need something akin to glen elendra archmage or a cheaper disciple of the ring
and red
fuck idk what red needs but red needs help
tired of seeing it being reduced to a splash color that people just put in for removal

>ban smuggler's copter and try to get the public on your side
>make mythic kopter that everyone has to jam 4 of

Wow cool

>>51571034
Would this PT look any different if smug copter wasn't banned?

>>51561540
>"''''''''''Story"'''''''''
The last time it mattered was featherlight. Newwalkers are garbage.

>>51571241
Mardu vehicles 8/8 instead of 6/8 for top 8

>>51571241
yes, mardu vehicle would have won twice faster...

>>51571034
tis a sad fuckin joke innit boyo

I always was bad at magic but I still wonder how people fell this hard for the Saheeli Cat meme. It was obvious from the start that the deck would have been a watered down version of Jeskai Control or Marvel decks that any decent aggro/midrange deck would have easily crashed. Yet everyone fell for it, nobody brought control to the PT because of it and now we have to enjoy this shitshow. Wow.

>>51572064
We had a few control decks, including a Jeskai control deck that DIDN'T play copy-cat and used the threat as bait every match.

so what gets played now to stop these nigger vehicle decks?

mainboard 4 radiant flames?
brutal expulsion?

is there anything that when it is played literally just wins the game vs. these fucks so that I don't have to ever worry about this crap for game day?

>>51572405

Yaheni's expertise I guess.

>>51572448
seems pretty ass
but maybe?

need something to cast off it that then wins you the game
Liliana?
uhhh
Nissa?
Tireless Tracker?
not really thinking of anything

>>51565183
Not using LIliana? That aint Jund without Lili

>>51572190
thats pretty hilarious

>>51572478
True that. I will have to add more card types to trigger grim flayer's delirium too.

>>51571034
Only the vehicle decks and SOME of the other aggro decks are running it and not all of them are running 4 of, cause of legendary rule, like sheesh, it's nowhere near as bad as copter, and not only that it's not Kiran making these decks crazy but just the crazy amount of synergy these decks are obtaining from their colors, I'd even go to say scrapheap scrounger and Gideon are more the reason this deck is performing super well then just Kiran since Gideon is freaking Gideon and scrapheap scrounger is super annoying for control to deal with.

I like control decks the best.
Would love to mill but those are expensive and too gimmick oriented for my taste.

What's looking to be the colors for control in aether revolt? Black/blue?

>>51553306
Fucking guy doesn't speak english, barely knows how to play the game, somehow spikes a PTQ and has no business being at the Pro Tour

I'm new to mtg and just read that esper charm article and it confused me. How was he able to draw then be forced to discard if charm only allows for one mode?

>>51574206
He didn't draw. From what I remember of the issue, his INTENT was to draw but he got rules lawyered into discarding. It was a scummy move and I would have DC'd the guy who called me over if I was the judge.

Basically the guy cast Esper Charm. In response his opponent asks "Targeting?" before a mode was declared. The guy casting Esper Charm says "myself" to which the opponent then says he has to discard two cards because "Only the discard option targets players, so you couldn't have intended to draw cards".

He literally tricked him with semantics over how Esper charm targets things.

>>51574248
Ohhhhh I see. Jesus that's a dick move. So what would he have to say? "No, no targets. Just draw two."

>>51574322
Basically yeah, "No targets, drawing two cards". I think you have to declare what mode you cast it for as you cast it but I don't remember, I'm not a judge or anything.

>>51553693
It definitely will. Masterpieces are the only kind of card worth holding onto for +10 years they print nowadays.

>>51574248
Was it that guy who wrote a whole article on SCG defending that Esper charm shenanigans??

This tournament has been so fucking boring. Every single game that I've watched has been terrible. I think I'll skip the next PT as I just don't give a damn anymore about Standard.

>>51574248
Wouldn't he just tell the judge that he didn't declare any modes yet and his opponent was speaking offhand before the card was even finished being cast?

What fucking judge agrees with this?

Why does this game have such shitty judges?

>>51560634
Prophetic prism
Herald of kozelik
Ugin land
Take out plains for aether hubs, red blue fast lands, and islands. Crumbling vestige
( so you can main board fatal push or welding sparks)
Add metalwork's puzzleknot.
Metallic rebuke

Such like that.
Crawlers and serpent shit

>>51574568
>>51574513
>>51574340
>>51574248
Don't let that guy spin the story. What happened was that the guy casting Esper Charm said from the get go "Esper charm targetting myself" Cedric asked him several times if he was targetting himself to whic he answered yes, then Cedric calls a judge to corroborate that his opponent was indeed targetting himself and when he goes to draw two he stops him and tells him that the only mode that targets players is the discard two option, judge agrees and he has to discard two.

>>51574932
>siding with cedric on that case
What is intent for 500 anon. Cedric should have clarified exactly what mode, but didn't because he wanted to pull a "GOTCHA!" and fuck his opponent's poor choice of words and not knowing the EXACT wording of the card draw part of the charm.

>>51574932
Even as you present this story it sounds shady as fuck. How would the Judge not be aware of the intention? It's a common sense kinda thing and definitely reeks of rules lawyering.
Seems like he took advantage of the Esper Charm player's naivety and conned the judge into being his accomplice by putting him on the spot.

Judge didn't want to embarrass himself for being a fucking retard so threw the Esper Charm guy under the bus.
This is where 'ruling by intention' is important.

>>51570515
Mono red burn needs a comeback.

Lightning bolt is going to be reprinted in amonkhet, mark my fucking words. Every set since BFZ has seen more and more red burn get added and it's all inching closer and closer to just a straight bolt reprint.

>>51575664
>Every set since BFZ has seen more and more red burn get added
More like taken away. The fact people were EXCITED for fucking Shock shows how bad things have gotten. We don't even have Lightning Strike in standard, do you really think they'll print bolt?

>>51574967
>>51575520
Yes, it can be seen as "shady". But are you supposed to tell your opponent how his cards work? Aside from straight-up telling his opponent "don't do that bro", what are you supposed to do? He gave the guy several chances to check what he was saying, if at any moment the opponent would have said "draw two", or hell just "draw" it would have been fine, but he didn't, he said "target myself", is READING THE FUCKING CARD (which has even become a popular acronym RTFC) not an ability a player should have? Should players be considered to always be making the best move available to them? Should we also hand out taksies-backsies to players that realize they screwed up after the fact? And must I remind you that in that environment we had Unearth as viable mechanic? There were reasons to want to discard a couple cards to reanimate them cheaply next turn.
In the end "shady" just means "the rules were not nice to me".

>>51572464
Why not use one of our Story Cards™ Anon?

For only 3WW you can exile all your opponents artifacts (which include artifact vehicles!) just like your favorite characters from the Kaladesh story!

>>51575743
>Aside from straight-up telling his opponent "don't do that bro", what are you supposed to do?
Asking him EXACTLY which mode he was choosing instead of doing the scumbag "He said target himself so we can assume he meant discard, fuck player intent"

>hurr he should have read the card
There's a fucking ton of card draw cards, the guy was playing at a tournament and probably isn't going to remember which ones say "Draw a card" and which ones say "target player draws a card", especially when that card draw card also has other modes that target players.

>In the end "shady" just means "the rules were not nice to me".
No, it means "I bent the rules to force the opponent to make an action they didn't intend too because of semantics."
Are you also a defender of the "Combat means declare attacks step" ruling from ealier in the PT?

>>51575743
>And must I remind you that in that environment we had Unearth as viable mechanic?
Holy fucking rules lawer batman, you sound like the biggest fucking Spike I'd ever seen.
"But what if unearth" isn't an argument if the player had no unearth cards in their deck.
You'd make a shit judge, you don't even begin to understand ruling by intent.

>>51575865
>>51575892
>ruling by intent
His intent was clearly to target himself. The opponent didn't knew that by targetting himself he was pigeonholed into a bad move, but that's another matter.

>isn't going to remember which ones say "Draw a card" and which ones say "target player draws a card"
Is remembering what your cards can, and cannot do not a skill a player should have?

>"Combat means declare attacks step"
According to the rules it does mean that. MTR 4.2. This will probably change starting next week, but as of the time of the ruling it was the correct call.

As I asked before, should players always be considered to be making the best move available?

>>51575775
>Story Card
hahahaha so hilarious I've never heard of this joke before. my god man you should do stand up

>>51576012
>His intent was clearly to target himself.
His intent was to draw cards, he didn't remember that the draw cards mode did not target. An easy mistake to make considering that there are some card draw spells that DO target and some that DON'T, PLUS the discard mode targets players, which most people shortcut into thinking "Oh if it's affecting hand then it targets a player".

>As I asked before, should players always be considered to be making the best move available?
You should always clarify exactly what move they INTEND to take and start from there.

>>51576012
>As I asked before, should players always be considered to be making the best move available?

Not that anon, but clarification for intention should always be sought. This doesn't mean assuming the player meant the best move possible when they declare what they're doing, but it means asking for clarification for their intention of what they plan to do. Instead of asking "are you sure you want to target yourself" the better question would be "what mode are you choosing?"

It's a game, and good sportsmanship is important. If you can't be a good sport you should go back to playing Fighting Games.

>>51576125
>>51576242
Should you also remind your opponent of his missing beneficial triggers? Because obviously his intention is to use those, that's why he put them in the deck in the first place. Should you tell your opponent that you're dead on board if he doesn't see the right combination of attacks?

>"what mode are you choosing?"
This gives the opponent additional information that he obviously is not keeping track of. It should be a player's duty (and not his opponent's) to know exactly what his cards can and cannot do, and how taking certain actions modifies the potential of any given card.

Remember we're talking Professional REL, these people are getting paid for playing this game, I expect you to bring your sharpest game to the table, and you will (and should) get punished for the tiniest misplay.
If we were talking Regular REL, yeah, then dick move, but we're not playing at your local FNM, we're talking about people that got flown in and are getting paid stays at a hotel, we're talking about a situation where attacking or not with your land can mean you get $40,000 or $20,000. Every play could be a forty thousand dollar move and should be treated as such.

>>51576442
>and you will get punished for the tiniest misplay.

And everyone will call you a dick for doing so because you're rulesharking, which the majority of people don't like and is a scummy practice for scrubs.

You are free to be a dick, but don't act all hurt when everyone calls you out for being a dick.

>>51576609
>everyone will call you a dick
Only people who have never been on the line for a prize will say so.

>don't act all hurt when everyone calls you out for being a dick
Funnily enough the ones that get hurt are those "scrubs" as you call them, because not everyone has the same self-imposed rules as they do.

The scrub mentality has no place near any kind of tournament. You say don't be a dick, I say bring your sharpest game to the table.

>>51542483
I'm brewing mono-red burn with indomitable creativity+ulamog and void winnower So far it shits on vehicles, constrictor, and copycat but it definitely needs white for the control/combo matchup.

>>51577025
>The scrub mentality has no place near any kind of tournament.
And the Spike mentality you have is exactly why so many people aren't going to tourneys or even FNMs anymore, since you fun-ruining faggots have infected every inch of the game nowdays whenever the format allows.

>>51577025

given that the scrub didn't win the next two games in the match after rulesharking, I'd say he's the scrubbiest scrub.

>>51577048
Technically that's wizards fault for sucking dick at lore and power balancing. Not that guy, just saying.

>>51577025
>You say don't be a dick
Not really. I say if you want to take the asshole seat, then don't cry when people called you an asshole.
Owen Turtenwald, Craig Wescoe, Ari Lax and numerous pros acted dickish before, and they didn't cry when people called them a dick.

>>51577190
This

If you really want to jew ruleshark someone then you have to be prepared for the backlash

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I unpacked a foil version of these.

Is it a good starting point for a deck?

>>51577343
If you can dump another 280 dollars into it, yes.

>>51577343
>Is a power card from one of the strongest decks in standard a good starting point?
You tell me bud.

>>51577343

God, I hope someone breaks MaRo's legs for introducing the Mythic Rarity cancer to MtG.

>>51572464
Not really, it wipes their board while keeping your board alive with GB delirium, and you can drop a creature or secondary removal spell to deal with the leftovers.

>>51577371
Jeez, that's a lot.

>>51577378
Oh boy, lucky me.

>>51578207
sell it

Was every deck in the top 8 really the same fucking Mardu vehicles list? I was watching the earlier matches hoping that something interesting to watch would make it through.

This mirror is so fucking boring to watch, goddamn. I wanted to see UB control make it but I would've settled for some variety.

>>51578242

Because Wizards can't design card games for shit anymore.

>>51578242
Yasooka can't save us this time.

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Is it a bad time to try and get into MtG?

>>51578343

I dunno, it just feels like the bubble is going to burst any second now. Wizards is really shaking up things like crazy, from gutting their entire online team, talking about cross-overing Magic and other brands, banning cards more frequently, changing the speed at which Standard rotates, the cost of standard never coming down from the highs we saw in the Kahns block, etc.

>>51577048
>the Spike mentality you have is exactly why so many people aren't going to tourneys or even FNMs
While I admit that the spike mentality is not at it's best at FNM, that is beyond the discussion here, we're talking about the best players of the world playing against each other, and I even addressed this in my previous post.
That point aside, guess what kind of personality is the one that's even keeping the tournament scene living? Yes, spikes are the ones keeping the game under the radar. It's the spike mentality the one that's writing that article about which cards are good or bad, the guy making that video deck tech it's a spike, those guys that time and again make top 8 finishes are spikes, and it's them and the spike mentality the one that's keeping the game alive. Because being a spike means that you want to show you're the best (if you don't agree read MaRo's articles where he defines the player archetypes), and that's what tournaments are about. And honestly without the tournament scene the game would die in less than a year, why do you think WotC keeps spending millions each year on it?

>>51577190
>>51577217
And who here is crying? I'm just defending his point of view, using rational arguments, and here you are calling people names and telling them they are crying. At what point did my arguments made you think that I was even the least bit offended? If anything it's you the one that's being childish, being the name-caller and all. But again, there's no argument here so I don't know why I even bother.

>>51578434
You're not the first person I've seen talking about the bubble bursting. That's sort of worrying.

A local game shop opened recently and I discovered Tolarian College and Alpha Investments so I've sort of become interested.

Seems like a bad idea.

>>51577121
>>51577121
You're confusing the meaning of the term "scrub". To be a scrub means to impose over yourself an additional set of rules of things that are considered fair and then complaining when other people don't abide by those rules. For example banning MLD at your EDH table is Scrub mentality. Saying that certain cards that you don't like should be banned is Scrub mentality. Saying that your opponent didn't deserve to win a game because he "only topdecked" the right spell, that's scrub mentality Calling a judge for a misplay and proceeding to lose the next few games is NOT scrub mentality. (All of those examples are there just to provide some insight and I'm not assuming that's the same situation we're talking about).

>>51578343
I had really high hopes that Aether Revolt would bring a bit of fresh air to the metagame, but this protour has showed me that R&D fucked up again. I hope the metagame stabilizes into a little more variety over the next weeks. My advice would be thread carefully.
Otherwise if you don't want to bother with the standard metagame there are other options. Legacy is as healthy as ever, Modern is a really shaky deal since WotC is a bit too trigger-happy with the bannings there, if you just want a casual experience to enjoy with your friends over a copule drinks then EDH/Commander is as good a choice as it has always been.

>>51578469
>Alpha Investments
MTG is a hobby not a company you can put money on Wall Street. Treat every dollar you spend on Mtg cards as a dollar you would have spent at a cinema or buying videogames, don't expect your cards to give you a rate of 6.3% on interest every year.

>>51578630
I watch Alpha Investments purely for entertainment. I just find the market aspect of it interesting.

>>51577343
its a good starting point to trade into whatever you want

foil grim flayer is around $36 so you could trade it off for a playset of something else or a solid landbase and then begin building the remaining pieces of a deck you want

>>51578469
don't listen to rudy

Rudy is on a different level than you and 99% of the things he talks about do not apply to you in any way
when rudy is talking about anything he is either
A. talking from the perspective of someone who sells hundreds of thousands of cards if not millions of cards a month and deals in more than a half million dollars worth of product yearly

or
B. is trying to manipulate the market using his videos

also don't bother listing to Tolarian College on anything game related
he has some ok reviews on third party products like sleeves and binders but when he talks about the game he is wrong almost all the time. He is to mtg as kripparian is to hearthstone, somehow super popular but he sucks massive ass at the game and has no clue what he is talking about

>>51580025
At least he's not listening to DesolatorMagic

>>51580025
Yeah, as I said in another post, I'm just watching Rudy for entertainment. I don't want to get involved in the nonsense he's doing.

As for the Tolarian College, is that really the case?

Kripp is actually one of the best arena players worldwide. Yeah, maybe he's not that great at constructed but he knows his arena.

But what's wrong with Tolarian College?

>>51562262
Answers pls anyone know what's up

>>51580136
I should rephrase
by "don't listen to" I don't mean "don't watch"
watching rudy and watching tolarian collage are fine because they are decent content creators and don't have shitty opinions
but realize that what they talk about most of the time either doesn't really apply to you or is probably wrong even if it is entertaining

desloatormagic just goes into the don't watch ever category

>>51580136
What's wrong with him?

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But he's called The Professor.

>random anons claiming to be more knowledgeable than someone who's played the game for decades

Where are your 190k sub channels?

>>51558163
It's because the target audience likes looking at thing with tits?

>>51580168
so two things
1. having played Hearthstone for a few years now and reaching legend multiple times I think I can say with some authority that being "good" at arena is like 50% luck and 10% skill with the remaining 40% being just knowing what the best card to pick in your group of 3 is
Kripp isn't even that great at arena either. He has videos of him doing well in it but if you look at his actual stats for overall runs my guess is that he runs only slightly above average, especially since he has played so many games.


Tolarian College is in a slightly different boat
he is what I would call a "hardcore casual" or I guess you could call him the epitome of a Johnny. He doesn't understand the fundamentals of the game as well as he thinks he does and overvalues cards that have combo or synergy potential far too much. He focuses on things that seem cool rather than just focusing on raw card value or raw power. He wants cards to be strong that are weak because they have flavor and seems to delude himself into thinking that these cards are strong when they are not. He also often talks about things in formats the he is probably a bottom 75% player at like standard or modern. if he is talking about EDH or some other super casual format then you can listen to him because what he says might be fun but don't expect him to ever give solid competitive advice and just flat out don't watch his videos talking about game design or game philosophy because he is a fanboy at heart and doesn't understand the first thing about those topics

>>51580384
>implying Johnny's aren't the best player type
Quiet now Spike.

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>>51580384
>only slightly above average

>>51580219
If "what's wrong with desolatormagic" isn't immediately apparent to you then I don't know what to tell ya

>>51577411
>God, I hope someone breaks MaRo's legs for introducing the Mythic Rarity cancer to MtG.

why do you morons think MaRo is responsible for everything? He doesn't do any story stuff either.

I don't think he's even read any of the story since he got kicked off creative back in the weatherlight days

>>51580449
nothing wrong with being a Timmy, Johnny or Spike and I wasn't implying there was

its just that he is a Johnny attempting to give Spike type of advice so we run into problems
if he was a Johnny giving Johnny opinions then he would be fine and he has multiple videos that do this

the problem is that Johnny and Timmy probably shouldn't be giving advice since they don't actually understand the concepts that they are talking about Spike (and only the absolute confirmed top 5-1% best spikes in the game) are qualified to give advice

Timmy and Johnny should feel free to give opinions, spikes should almost never give opinions

and a side note that is only slightly related and I don't really hold against the professor but I am so sick of fucks trying to be armchair game developers over youtube

>>51580514
>armchair game developers
In what way?

>>51580477
well bite me I didn't think he would actually be that great at it

how the fuck does he suck so much ass at constructed then when he is so good at the meme format?

>>51580490
I haven't watched it, hence the question.

>>51580566
>bite me
Frick, man

>>51580538
people talking about things that game devs should or shouldn't do or shitty clickbait videos of like "Top 5 things that X game could learn from Y game" while not understanding very simple basic concepts of design

MTG might be an exception though since I don't think even Wizards knows what they are doing with game design

>>51580566
He's not actually that bad as constructed but he doesn't enjoy it, either.

>>51580585
he is the quintessential worst kind of player

shitty at the game and filled with negative opinions and a crap attitude

he plays the game more out of spite than anything else I can think of and gloats about how he goes to his LGS, shits the place up, and plays assassin decks against specific players he knows will be there that he doesn't really like for one reason or another, mostly because they Netdeck (god forbid)

so his videos mostly boil down to him talking about how much he hates Netdeckers, how much he hates WotC, how he is going to quit playing because of X, Y, and Z broken 6 card combos in standard that will never actually work, and how shitty the future looks for MTG. Then the videos always take a turn where he starts throwing out his unsolicited opinion on political events and tries really, really hard to make sure you know he is a member of the alt-right and how much he hates the SJW boogyman and leftists. Then he always has a short segment where he is a successful card shop owner/web designer/game developer/marketeer/doctor/lawyer/whatever occupation seems to give him some kind of authority on the thing he is talking about when in reality he is just some dumbass who dropped out of college and is going nowhere in life fast.
Finally we wrap the video up with how much he hates netdeckers again
all the while we get a shitty backdrop of fallout 4 gameplay

>>51580585
Oh, he's just a ridiculous Internet personality. He's often very critical and very negative. He blows everything out of proportion, the sky is always falling with this guy. (For example he called for a boycott of Aether Revolt). He thought crypolith rite was gonna break magic, in every format. A whole lot of his videos are just rants where he loudly complains about how incompetent or stupid someone or something is. Additionally he is vehemently anti-PC, and is particularly vitriolic concerning transgendered people and somehow manages to often bring this up in his mtg videos.

>>51580608
last time I checked he has managed to get to legend 1 time? and that was through some serious, albeit unwanted, viewer assistance. I think he had something like 15-20 game concessions to him to get him from rank 5 to legend

its not really a matter of not liking it
either you are good at it or you aren't and he is in the later group which amazes me because most of the fundamentals that you would use to be successful in arena apply to constructed

>>51580821
Legend is such a fucking grind, though, it's not surprising he's not tried to climb that much. A lot of it is purely time put in with quick decks. Doesn't really work for someone who's mostly about arena.

On another note, does anyone actually dislike The Professor? He seems to be very popular on >Reddit.

>>51547613
>How is a spell effect on top of an already undercosted body a deck?

Is this the average level of analysis here or is it actually safe to stay here? I'd really rather just stop reading through this thread this early than be subjected to more later on if I continue scrolling down.

>>51580869
no I don't think anyone actually dislikes him
he has the kind of attitude and personality that make him a likable guy
the only time I can think of recently that I had a really negative opinion about him was when he made that video where he apparently "lost his job" as an associate part time professor at a community college and went onto youtube to beg for money
that was kinda shitty

outside of that though I think he is a great guy that just has some wrong opinions and should try and stick more to making videos about things he is really qualified to do and not try to be some kind of repository for competitive data and game design concepts

Despite the pro-tour being dominated by 3 decks, I still feel that standard is in a great place on a smaller, less competitive scale since aether revolt brought in so many open ended cards to brew with or add to previous archetypes/decks

That being said are you guys going to attend game day and FNMs? If not, is it because the top decks seem too oppressive?

>>51581041
I will be going to FNM and playing in Gameday
I don't really know what to bring though I kinda just want to bring U/B control and see if I can make it work but I bet I would have a better shot at winning if I just brought vehicles and copied what happened at the PT

I think you are right in that Standard is set up well for the future but we really need to have the Zendikar block rotate to get Gideon out of here
Atlazan can't come fast enough

>>51581041
>That being said are you guys going to attend game day and FNMs?
I was after I thought the banning would make my meme decks more viable (U/R spells, sort of like U/R visions but with less visions and more card draw and prowess. Also an 'EldraziRed' midrange deck because I wanted an excuse to run Hanweir garrison because I think it's a great card and Revolt gave it another good 1 drop and 2 drop in the 1 mana thopter and the 2 mana shapeshifter lord thing.) but my closest LGS is an hours drive away and I don't feel like travelling an hour just to face netdecked vehicles and snakes every week from the 90% spike playerbase that infests that store, even on the "casual Thursdays" events these shitbags bring their top tier meta decks too every time.

>>51572405
baral's expertise, kind of
Also cataclysmic gearhulk used to work pretty good with the old version of vehicles, i don't know about this new one

>>51581163
Oh, I also should have listed my Jund From Beyond ramp and Temur 2cast decks under meme decks which both also got new tools in AER but are all just too slow for vehicles.

>>51581041
I will be showing up at both Game Day and FNMs. I was piloting G/R Energy Aggro before AER, and I will probably upgrade to something aking to Yuza's Jund version by selling my Gearhulks.
I wish Energy Bob was a bit less squishy though, I really want to run her but ballistas keep ruining my dreams.

>>51581365
I've found she's totally worth it. If they spend a ballista on it, you came out ahead. Siphoner is utility. Not a pay off or win condition. You will come out ahead.

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>>51583175
>If they spend a ballista on it
More often than not it's just a single counter, not the whole creature