Why necromancy such a meme type of magic?

>>51535653
Spooky and Scary

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>>51535653
Because it creates skeletons. Nuff said.

>>51535773

It doesn't create skeletons, regular ordinary murder plus time creates skeletons. Also a healthy diet rich in calcium creates skeletons. Necromancy just makes the skeletons dance.

>>51535827
murder doesn't actually create skeletons, it only causes them to be revealed, and even then it's actually bacteria and microorganisms which break down the covering of flesh.

sex creates skeletons.

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>>51535844
>Fundamentalist pro-life lich trying to keep birth-rates up in the local hamlet to ensure he'll have sufficient skeletons within the next 200 years
Now I'm really spooked

>>51535827
>regular ordinary murder plus time creates skeletons
Not if you use nitrogen acid.
Or pigs.

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>>51535827
>>51535844
>>51535865
Best thread of the week already

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>>51535653
Humanity is frightened of death and often tries to portray everything related to it as bad. This sometimes forms counter cultures that try to portray it as not bad.

Necromancy is stuck in the revolving door.

>>51535927

So let's make it a fun middleground where it's neither good nor bad.

Like in Eberron!

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>>51535653
Because in typical DnD it' super powerful and can potentially break the game, so autists and grognards masturbate over the idea of playing their super special ultimate necromancer character while failing to realize tht in 99% of settings necromancy is considered an illegal dark art punishable by death and their super perfect character isn't going to be able to do anything because they won't even be capable of the most basic social interactions or acceptance in civilized society if people learn the truth. Much like the grognards themselves.

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>>51536070
Yeah people get ABSOLUTELY TRIGGERED when necromancy and its users' alignment is being questioned or mentioned. It is a surefire bait of guaranteed 300+ replies.
I just did it right now too

>>51535865
Shit, this is definitely going into my book of campaign ideas.

>>51536329
Ladies and gentlemen, Chaotic Evil Paladins

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>>51536329
It's not about alignments though. It's that messing with the dead is, in most settings that have actually been good enough to get published (basically retarded homebrew doesn't count here), Necromancy is considered socially unacceptable. It also happens to be very powerful mechanically. Grognards have a habit of not caring about context as long as it can make their character powerful, even if that context would basically make their player unplayable from an actual roleplaying perspective.

It's kinda the same as the whole "vampires are cool" phenomenon that's invaded literature recently. Yup, it's "cool" to be a super powerful blood sucking parasite that's basically an animated corpse with no soul. Not like curses are supposed to be BAD or anything, unless by "bad" you mean BADASS!

>>51536398
>in most settings that have actually been good enough to get published
This triggers me.
The quality of a setting doesn't correlate in any way with it being published.
The widely known settings either come from a well-established company, or with its own gaming system.

>>51536494
It's also known that 99% of homebrew is shit yet 100% of homebrewers think their super special setting where dark magic is "good" is the 1% that's not shit.

>>51535653
What in the name of your mom's undead sweaty taint does that question even mean, you jackass??

>>51536509
I don't know to whom it is known, maybe to you. Most people have the ability to realistically evaluate their work.I also wonder where this idea that all homebrewers make dark magic good came from, personal traumatic experience?

>>51536509
>99% of homebrew is shit
99% of homebrew is less developed than commercially sold settings because they are made on pure enthusiasm and in spare time. If this is what you meant to say, then I can agree.

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>>51536548
>Most people have the ability to realistically evaluate their work.

>>51536052
/thread

http://www.strawpoll.me/12152284/r

most people believe that we should allow good necromancers

>>51535653
because necromancy is cool

>>51536052
Fuck that, making it both in my own setting.
Orcus being a dick and a whole bunch of goodly knights/crusaders/mercenaries who were too noble to die and let that fucker take over. Made their own magocratic city where that's run by CR 15+ undead while the living study and better themselves or be artisans while skeles work in the fields.

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>>51536548
Literally every good teacher or successful writer you talk to will tell you that you're the worst judge of your own work and that feedback from other people is ESSENTIAL to developing and refining your craft.

Relying on only your own feedback leads a self-intensifying feedback loop of personal bias where you steadily get worse and worse and don't even see it.

>>51536633
It's just a special case of the alignment restriction question. Most people will agree that alignment restrictions are bad and damaging to roleplaying.

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>>51536633
>>51536853
At this point you're getting into the realm of "yeah, killing innocents should be a morally good class because people think killing innocents is cool."

You're literally talking about magic that unnaturally ties a soul to a decaying body to be used as an energy source while forcing to be obey your whims in some kind of existentially fucked up magical slavery. Yes, this is all a "good" thing somehow.

>>51537042
why dont you just use mindless skeletons like a normal person?

>>51537042
>necromancy is exactly what I describe it to be, all the other interpretations are wrong and fake!

>>51537048
Because if they're truly mindless, does the fact that they're a skeleton really make it any different than creating a golem or something? Is it really even necromancy at that point?

>>51537053
This is pretty much excepted as a universal and common understanding of what necromancy is. This isn't some high grade philosophical issue here...

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This thread really needs this story.

>>51537066
>excepted
jej

But no, that's not true.

>>51537066
>golems are the domain of necromancy in diablo
skeletons do what they are told, if you tell them to give alms to the needy they will

>>51537066
>This is pretty much excepted as a universal and common understanding of what necromancy is
Oh, if you say so, oh high and mighty authority, than who am I to argue.

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>>51537066
>>51537053
>>51537048
>>51537042
>>51536633
300+ replies guaranteed!

>>51537082
Tis a sad day when common definitions can't even be considered as reliable common sense anymore, but whatever, continue to make your shitty special-snowflake homebrews where all your stuff is unique and different from common understanding. The autism in this topic has become too much for me.

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>>51537093
>common definition
>it's not actually common

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>>51535653
Why is everything a meme these days? Oh look, I took a shit, is defecation a meme now? Everyone does it, after all

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>Good necromancers

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posting one of the founders of necromancer heroes in the mainstream

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>>51537080
Only if said necromancy includes that skeletons are basically robots with zero upkeep and supplied with a mind that understands complex instructions such as what are "alms" and who are "needy" but with no will of their own to make judgments. I am not even going to get into the part on how complex a mind it requires to use weapons to "attack" an enemy, let alone be an organized army of skeletons capable of fighting as a unit without accidentally hacking each other or just bumping into each other all the time which even normal people require a great deal of military training to do.

Skeletons (and golems too) are always said to be "mindless" while at the same time being equivalent of robots with extremely sophisticated AI at the levels of animals at the very least. While nobody calls animals mindless. Being "mindless" should also mean that they can NOT do complex tasks especially not in masses. Yes it is "magic" I know that but the two things still do not add up.

>>51537246
skeletons are usually depicted as having no initiative beyond defending themselves if attacked

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>>51536548
It can not bear enough repeating that all homebrew is extremely shit, except for maybe the 0.1% that actually is an effort created by an expert who also play tests their shit.

In fact, I would argue that going out and going through the whole work of homebrewing something colossal (like, a wholesale setting or system) requires you to turn off the part of your brain that critically analyses every single word you write down or it just won't get done.

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>>51537322
Just remember, even though 99.9% of it shit, 100% of homebrewers thing that THEIRS isn't and they'll totally be able to make money selling it on drivethru RPG or Patreon and all DMs in the world are going to bend over backwards to use their homebrew instead of their own.

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>>51537322
What are you talking about? Homebrew is universally great, like the stuff on this wiki for example. All top quality stuff.

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Chronomancer_(5e_Archetype)

>>51537549
>you make a weapon out of solidified time

Nothing pisses me off quit as much as magical summoning weapons. Especially when it makes no god damn sense.

>>51536364
>Chaotic Evil Paladins
>Not Paladins of Rape

At least you tried.

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>>51537681
Yes, THAT is the broken part of that class and not the fact that you can take like 3 turns in combat by level 2.

>>51537143
this motherfucker is how you should play a "good" necromancer. he's not good, he just happened to line up with good forces this time around. after all, what good is necromancy if there's no one alive to do it, as the undead in that setting were either their puppets of that of demons

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>>51536398
>in most settings that have actually been good enough to get published (basically retarded homebrew doesn't count here), Necromancy is considered socially unacceptable


I actually really like the take that the Dunmer have in Morrowind, where they revere ancestors. Getting the temple to raise granny as a bonewalker to guard the ancestral tomb isn't seen as necromancy; its just her doing her bit for the family. Of course necromancy is illegal if you are a filthy outlander N'wah.

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>>51536548
>Most people have the ability to realistically evaluate their work.

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>>51536548

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>>51537473
Shit, I should get in on this scam. If only I extensively homebrewed!

>>51537903
Nah, the joke is that most people don't actually make any money off it (despite their best efforts to) because nobody wants their shit and the only homebrew most DMs allow is their own stuff anyway. How many times have you honestly seen a DM allow someone else's homebrew (not counting their own players)?

>>51537549
You shouldn't have brought this wiki up motherfucker

https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Metal_Elemental_(3.5e_Creature)

I dare you to find one single creature in all history of games that is less than a billion times worse than this

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>>51537931
ForeverDM here. I don't homebrew, I need extreme convincing in the form of blowjobs or liquor and I will CONSIDER reading homebrew and I tend to mix up modules (but then again, GOOD modules are extremely easy to mix up or are even intended to be played mixed like, CoS)

So you got me there. I was being facetious, though if it was a profitable scam, it is definitely something I should have considered.

>>51537931
>How many times have you honestly seen a DM allow someone else's homebrew (not counting their own players)?
I haven't seen it any more than people trying to make money off their homebrews.

>>51535653
Really though, I think it's because necromancers have been the big bad of so many pulp S&S stories since the dawn of S&S that we can't help but joke about them anymore. Sure, maybe a creature that raises the dead was super spooky in the 30's and 40's, but by now we've been over them so many times they're just silly and meme-worthy. Also, spoopy skellingtons.

>>51537719
he was actually pretty righteous, fighting for what he believed in, and wanting to stop people who wanted to throw the natural balance out of order

>>51537961
What's so bad about it?

>>51537322
I'll never understand why people can't balance homebrew. Everyone shits on it but it really just is not that hard to create a concept, test it out, and tweak it until it fits. Goes for new rules or straight up new content such as classes. And if the DM+Players all agree the new thing makes the game better? Fine, it'll work for your group. You're good to go. If not? Scrap it. Losing content you designed is part of DMing. Move on. It really is that easy, most people just can't get their head out of their asses long enough to do it.

>>51537961
This shit just sounds kinda retarded honestly. A lot of things that thematically seem as if they shouldn't go together.

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>>51536548
>Most people have the ability to realistically evaluate their work

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>>51536548
Congratulations, I think you win "most retarded post of the day".

The sad part is, most homebrewers ACTUALLY THINK LIKE THIS.

One of the main reasons homebrew settings suck ass is that the creators think that their setting has to be super special and unique. They avoid common tropes just because they're common, even if it detracts from their homebrew. Combine this with lack of time/resources, and you have yourself a steaming pile of shit the creator is personally invested in and will defend vehemently.

>>51538450
>They avoid common tropes just because they're common
The alternative is not avoiding it and producing a pile of mammoth shit that was stale before your mother was born. How this can appeal to anyone but the most disconnected grognards I have no idea.
>grognards
>tg
Okay, I think I found the problem.

>>51538570
That's a bullshit mentality and you know it. All good settings and stories come from building off of previous settings and stories. You're allowed to use common tropes; if you can execute them well. Experimenting with 'unique' ideas is good and necessary, but when it becomes the basis of speculation for your setting it's bad 99% of the time. There are many reasons why homebrewed settings sucks and this is one of them. Trying to be super unique and being doomed to failure.

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>all these elitist faggots screeching that homebrews suck

LOL, go and tell it to your DM. I hope you enjoy playing with imaginary friends, because that's what you're gonna be doing next.

>>51538591
>All good settings and stories come from building off of previous settings and stories
They come from taking ideas from the previous generation of fantasy and doing new things with them. Which, in actuality, most people don't even bother with. In fact, most homebrews are indeed mammoth shit with no attempts at uniqueness. Or very lazy attempts like reversing the stereotypes so that we have shit like drunken elves and elegant dwarves. True uniqueness is extremely rare. And it never sucks like you described it, if only because it adds some novelty.

>>51537259
>>51537246
D&D skellingtons, if left to their own devices, will try to murder everything they can.

As usual, it depends on the setting.

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>>51536548

>>51536509
Got really annoying in my homebrew when one of the players repeatedly attempted to gain access to and use my OC dark magic donut steel, despite me making it abundantly clear that it was actually a horrible horrible mistake to do so, and the only people who were using it were doing so because they (arrogantly) thought they could control it, and were all wrong.

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>>51536548
>Most people have the ability to realistically evaluate their work.

Holy fuck, part of me thinks this is so stupid that it has to be bait, but a bigger part of me thinks you're actually earnest about being this retarded.

>>51538233
Because most people can't deal with or don't understand what challenge is supposed to be, so the stuff they homebrew up is "perfect" with no weaknesses, or token comic-book style weaknesses that aren't really weaknesses and will either never come up or are easy to cover.

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>>51536548

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>>51535653
>meme magic

I think I'm dying.

>>51538592
DMs generally make homebrew to adress balance issues in the game or make the game easier to run. Honestly you can barely even call it homebrew.


Most player homebrew is "HURRDURR I WANA PLAY A RETARDED ANIME CHARACTER FROM MY FAVORITE VIDYA GAME WITH TIMESPACE HYPER VAMPIRE DRAGUN MAGIC!"

>>51540361
>mememancy
>memetic weaponry

>>51536633
Neutral, I could allow, but good? You'd have to really stretch the limits here, or have a setting that specifically allows good necromancy.

I get that sometimes being of the wrong alignment can cause some unintentional conflict, but why can't people who want to be necromancers deal with the fact that they're going to be considered evil by most people they meet, or neutral at best? Because in most settings, no one wants grandma's bones being used to swing a halberd at you, and necromancy uses corruptive evil magic, or the only way to learn it is from evil people.

>>51540464
Because it is a natural tendency for people to want the only best in everything and leave out the bad parts.

>>51535653
Necromancy is seriously underutilized in comparison on how all encompassing it is in the folk lore.

You can get warlock like powers and knowledge from the dead either with or without strings attached, you can rise them up in various forms, you can cheat death yourself, curse people and so on.

Generally the only thing people don't normally do is a DnD staple of necrobolts and lifedrain with the first rarely happening at all and the later being mostly associated with witchcraft.

Necromancy is generally also much less evil than some other forms of magic like communing with devils and stealing luck and power which happens with European witchcraft (African witchcraft being more about ruining people's life for no gain at all).

>>51540464
Dominions 4 has good, bad and ugly of necromancy.

You have Ctis for whom the necromancy is just daily business, Ermor that fucks it all up, Inca expys that are lead by mummy mafia, Agartha who use zombies and skeletons as automatons and everything in between.

>>51540464
Not everybody who uses necromancy raises the undead. I mean, that's probably the most iconic Necromancy effect but they've also got a decent direct damage/debuff/instadeath suite that isn't really any more evil-seeming than roasting your enemies alive with Fireball (though it does have more spooky overtones). And for the undead, really, it comes down to your spiritual assumptions about them.

"Y'know how druids get all uppity about how they 'use every part' of whatever fluffy thing they killed most recently? Well, I figure I do the same thing more or less, but with whatever I've got to go against to keep peace in the land and tea in the pot. Deal with one orcish warband, and I've got an undead orcish warband to throw at the next one. Faster than golemcraft, and cheaper too, and it keeps our people off the front lines at least when I'm involved with a skirmish. That's how it's supposed to go. Sometimes, when things get really dire, it's the bones of fallen friends that have to take another swing at the enemy. I tried to talk the magistrate into a corpse donor registry, but it didn't take, so consider that strictly as necessary. Their souls? Long gone, usually. Well, at least if you count a few minutes as long, but the point is whatever they used to be vacated the premise. But with the right incantation I can see if someone who's passed on is inclined to chat with those of us still hanging around. Puts food on the table in peacetime, that does."

>>51535653
>spend lifetime learning magic
>and VERBOTEN NECROMANTIC SEKRITS
>turn myself into a lich
>fuck yeah, time to procrastinate
>FOREVER

Wait homebrewing is wrong now ? I thought /tg/ liked worldbuilding and all ?
Obviously most people here are not professionnal writers but I don't think many people are pretending to be writers.
Or is it something like people writing fanfictions as a hobby being inherently wrong and jaded adulescents finding almost everything edgy and cringey ?

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>>51535653
As a forever GM? Edgelords really.
I've been asked all of these
>What's the darkest magic I can use?
>What's the most forbidden technique in the setting?
>What magic is associated with fear and death?
>What allows me to devour souls
>What allows me to kill gods?
>What is usually the opposite of holy magics and the divine?
>What is the closest I can get to a Shinigami?
>What allows me to use the bones of my enemies as weapons?
>What is the most misunderstood form of magic?

>>51542283
Lemme take a crack at these

>What's the darkest magic I can use?
Illusion, lets you create zones of absolute darkness
>What's the most forbidden technique in the setting?
Raping an opponent's children to damage their morale
>What magic is associated with fear and death?
Pyromancy. Shit can get way out of control.
>What allows me to devour souls
Ok this one does actually sound like Necromancy, or possibly a form of witchcraft if you want to go the Hocus Pocus route
>What allows me to kill gods?
Depends on the setting. Usually requires a macguffin.
>What is usually the opposite of holy magics and the divine?
Atheist antimagic
>What is the closest I can get to a Shinigami?
Illusion magic lets you make all the imaginary friends you want, some that can even kill people
>What allows me to use the bones of my enemies as weapons?
Basic crafting knowledge
>What is the most misunderstood form of magic?
Cryptomancy

>>51536645
One setting my DM(well, my group, the DM was big on the whole "collaborative story" thing) made the setting's Hobgoblins be a mostly necromancy focused society.

They were partially based on the Mongols, and had a very serious ancestor worship thing going on.

The ruling group was a collection of their great, strongest, wisest, and/or otherwise especially important generals in their history known as the Immortal Shogunate, raised as Liches.

We only ran into one of those fuckers once and we basically just immediately high-tailed it. Hobgoblins were tough as nails in this setting, and having one of their spooky undead generals riding at the front of the pack made us not want any part of that raid.

>>51536364
What's a good counter argument to someone who keeps harping that paladins have to be some type of lawful alignment?
He also said that they have to be lawful because the guys that made 5e said so after 5e was published in some interview or Q/A or something

>>51542160
Probably the last one. Everyone's heard all the good stories, they're jaded now. They want to go back to the good old days when morality in games was black and white and people didn't keep trying to make everything evil good and everything good evil.

>>51542160
>Wait homebrewing is wrong now ? I thought /tg/ liked worldbuilding and all

That was at least two years ago.
Now we just don't like what others like.

>>51544617
>Now we just don't like what others like.
>Now
Wrong, that has been so since 4chan became a thing.

>>51537073
......damn....fuck that DM
>>51537961
The general description is a little all over the place for those things

>>51542160
>>51543879
>>51544617
>>51545244
>breaking news 4chan doesn't like things

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>>51537073
This is the classic example on how some people think necromancy works. That you can just use the dead as super sophisticated, all purpose, zero upkeep, robots to do all complicated physical labor for free and there is no downside and strings attached to it at all. Nothing should come without a cost especially powerful magic.

>>51538233
I can only speak for myself, but I can't balance homebrew because the only system I know well enough to homebrew for is completely broken in and of itself.

There's just no point.

>>51545754
So you can throw a fireball that crashes castle gates, and that is fine and ethical and comes without a cost except your casting slot. But raise one skeleton, and you're EEEVUUUUUULLLLLL

>>51546010
If you raise a skeleton and just animate it like a puppet, you're probably not saving any effort, since I imagine you'd have to consciously control the skeleton

If you raise a skeleton and give it autonomy, depending on the setting, this could or could not be evil. In settings without golems or other similar creatures, you're probably doing this by binding someone's soul to the skeleton and forcing it to do your bidding. This prevents them from reaching the afterlife and is pretty objectively evil. In settings that DO have golems and such, and creatures can be made autonomous through non-necromancy means, I can't think of a good explanation for why doing the same with a skeleton or corpse is wrong other than potential desecration of the dead (which is more of a cultural thing, but you're not harming anyone).

Being a lich isn't inherently evil in itself, but almost all settings that have liches have unspecified, brutally evil rituals required to BECOME a lich, such that anybody who actually manages to succeed is probably evil and has their soul stained by those actions.

>>51543471
I'm lumping goblonoids in with dorfs. Maglubiyet kicked the bucket and when left without direction they were driven into inhospitable areas, forced into conflict with shit leaking out of the underdark. Dorfs, needing more dudes to do the same, took em in and adapted their lawfulness for their own uses. Hobgobbos are obviously east asian in culture with a very strict but superstitious culture. They do the surface work so dorfs can stay below ground. The mountain range they live in, however, has its northernmost section right next to Manifest, a city state made from the undead houses guarding the "wraithgate" to the Raven Queen from Orcus. I should probably give them a touch of necromancy just by proximity honestly.

>>51546010
If we're talking D&D and its derivative fantasy settings, then they're animated by outright anti-life.

Each skeleton is a direct connection to the negative energy plane, drawing warmth and life from the world by their mere existence. Undead as geoengineering project?

And, if they somehow slip the chain, then their base drive is to kill anything living that crosses their path. Like a rabid animal.

Then, of course we get into the whole ancestor desecration and that sort of thing.

>>51546632
But the negative energy plane has no inherent alignment

>>51540464
It should also be noted that before 3rd edition, all healing magic was under Necromancy.

It being Conjuration is a very new thing.

>>51546933
That's not really the issue. The things that utilize negative energy ARE evil, and it usually benefits creatures and things that are inimical to mortal life and livelihood.

>>51546206
>If you raise a skeleton and just animate it like a puppet, you're probably not saving any effort, since I imagine you'd have to consciously control the skeleton

It's just autonomous enough to do whatever you tell it to.

>If you raise a skeleton and give it autonomy, depending on the setting, this could or could not be evil.
Why? It's basically a bone robot.

>In settings without golems or other similar creatures, you're probably doing this by binding someone's soul to the skeleton and forcing it to do your bidding. This prevents them from reaching the afterlife and is pretty objectively evil.
This isn't a thing in any official setting though, so why are you even bringing it up?

If anything, making golems is far more evil than zombies since it explicitly involves shoving an elemental in there and forcing it to power the thing.

>In settings that DO have golems and such, and creatures can be made autonomous through non-necromancy means, I can't think of a good explanation for why doing the same with a skeleton or corpse is wrong

Skeletons/zombies are more convenient depending on the setting. Having the skill and resources to form golems into suitable shapes, conjure a few elementals, then shove them into the things is a lot more work than just throwing some magic at a corpse. Golems are a lot sturdier than most skeletons/zombies, but that's the trade-off you get.

As you mentioned, the desecration and negative social stigma with necromancy is pretty much why you wouldn't do it, and even then you could probably make arrangements, or use the bodies of some bandits no one's going to care about to help rebuild it or something.

>almost all settings that have liches have unspecified, brutally evil rituals required to BECOME a lich
Such as?

>>51547051
>Why? It's basically a bone robot.
Because read nigga, read.
>>In settings without golems or other similar creatures, you're probably doing this by binding someone's soul to the skeleton and forcing it to do your bidding. This prevents them from reaching the afterlife and is pretty objectively evil.
>This isn't a thing in any official setting though, so why are you even bringing it up?
Except it is. In D&D you either take the soul of the poor fucker who died or use the plane of negative energy to power it. Its evil because wizards says it is.
>Such as?
The existence of archliches. There is no specific process because writing it down would cheapen the effect and make it an obtainable player goal universally rather than GM dependent so its left intentionally vague exactly how one becomes a lich. However, the existence of archliches means that regular liches do some horrendously fucked up shit for their power.

>>51547134
Souls used for the creation Nonsentient undead are probabily not from people I don't think it is always evil and accessing the negative energy plane definitely isn't. But yeah I think you have to willingly murder someone in coldblood to become a Litch so that is evil.

>>51547134
>In D&D you either take the soul of the poor fucker who died or use the plane of negative energy to power it.

The negative energy plane is a thing, but where are you getting using souls from? Which setting?

That being said, I should point out that in my setting, binding people's souls and using them to power undead is how zombies do happen(albeit with control enchantments on them, otherwise the soul is in control of the undead and typically just attacks the necromancer in rage). Mostly. There's one way to raise undead without using a soul, but that method has it's own issues (the undead is always feral without proper control spells, and attempts to kill anyone around it, only works in one specific area in the setting, and giving a life-hating eldritch abomination a physical form in the word among other problems).

>However, the existence of archliches means that regular liches do some horrendously fucked up shit for their power.
Arguable, but not necessarily.

>>51547134
>isnt a thing in any official setting
>except it is
What about unofficial settings?
Can't a player made setting have the option for necromancers to just throw some magic in a pile of bones and have it just Todd Howard?

>>51547009
Using negative energy isn't evil. It's anti-life stuff, but if you're not doing evil things with it, it's pollution at worst. Skeletons are the inner-city SUVs of the D&D world: their impact on the world as a whole isn't positive, but its also a cost for their usefulness at worst and a normally functioning person could pretty easily justify it.

>>51543676
Call bullshit and ask him to source it.
I can't find anything saying paladins have to be lawful in the PHB or elsewhere, and if he can't prove it he can get thee hence.

>>51535653
Well when you raise an undead, it's taking the soul back into the body and making it your slave basically which is why its evil. That and its a perversion of the natural cycle of how the world works, like whats the point in the afterlife if you never go there?

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>>51542283
What kind of shitty people do you play with? I enjoy rolling necromancers but fuck me, this is straight up retarded.

the way I like to use it, necromancy has a super bad rep that it honestly doesn't deserve. The act of acquiring the bodies needed makes it questionable if you don't have a good and ethical way to get those, but it's just magic that does thing with death.

because it's seen as an evil thing, bad people just kind of get drawn to it. Everyone from the lich trying to the land from the few edgelord teen punks trashing the back of the tavern go into necromancy exactly because it's forbidden. This in turn somewhat reinforce the "necromancy is bad" thing, and considering the number of evil necromancers that arise because of that we can't really blame anybody for not trusting it.

>>51551282
>Well when you raise an undead, it's taking the soul back into the body and making it your slave basically which is why its evil.

A. That's not how it works in any official setting.

B. Making golems follows the exact process you described, except with sentient elementals instead of people souls.

>>51551403
>treat necromancers poorly
>create necromancer villains due to inability to accept them as good
this is the life you chose

>>51551282
>That and its a perversion of the natural cycle of how the world works, like whats the point in the afterlife if you never go there?

>ITP: Resurrection and Reincarnation are evil spells.

are we seriously arguing that a player shouldnt be allowed to make any character he wants?
why are we no longer allowed to play the character any way we want?
what is stopping me from being a necromancer who has saved the world 5 times over, and has turned his kingdom into a model of peace and prosperity? would he still be evil just because of his job?

>>51551523
>why are we no longer allowed to play the character any way we want?

Because there are ways that people won't like you to play a character, i.e. a Lawful Stupid paladin.

>>51551768
even a lawful stupid paladin character can be funny/interesting, its just that people just use it as an excuse to do things that annoy other players, which is the real problem, not the archetype

>>51551809
But that's the thing - a good necromancer can annoy other players. Perhaps some don't like undead, or have a religious reason to hate necromancers because they worship a death god. Or even more general things like hating magic users.

Of course these are all things that can be avoided or lessened to a degree, but they're a legitimate factor in building a functioning party.

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>>51536070

> needing social interactions or acceptance in civilized society

>>51540440
That would actually be pretty cool, but in the sense of memetic weaponry you see in the SCP stuff: patterns, words, whatever, that trigger a catastrophic failure of you consciousness and kill you. Also triggers hidden through hypnosis and such that do the same. Also verbal viruses or viral hypnosis. I think it could work.

>>51540665
>Dom 4
Mah nigga. I remember playing as whoever the forest Greek myth-type people were, satyrs and centaurs and all that, expecting happy clappy hippy shit, and ended up with armies that throw hundreds to thousands of naked women to claw with their nails at the enemy and die in the dozens just to give my spellcasters time to sacrifice more women to wreak various sorts of horrors on the enemy.

>>51553539
if the rest of the party wants to ruin another players fun because "its in character" they might be the problem

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>>51554362

>>51540464
You know what's the best way to fight undead? Necromancy, that's what. Healing magic? That's restoring dead flesh, aka necromancy as well. Calming restless spirits? Necromancy will do the trick. Finding out who murdered that poor chap? Necromancy will give you the answer.

It's just a tool, and like any tool it can be used for good or ill.

>>51540665
Dominions is great. A game that's very beautifully made, even if the graphics are 90's tier.

>>51554807
Or the player in question might be an annoying prick.

Fuck good Necromancers. Tired of the "evil powers don't make someone evil" meme. Defiling the dead and messing with the sanctity of life are evil acts/

What would happen if you only used necromancy in animals like oxen and horses?