/CofD/ &/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

>>51519154
>What is the one thing you don't want to see in Deviant?

Rules. Just let the book consist solely of fluff.

>>51519110
>good for avoiding withstand

One of the biggest flaws of Mage 2E. Doesn't matter what you are, a Master is going to fucking disintegrate your ass.

>>51519300
I was going to say the same thing. It doesn't help that yantras lower the threshold of exceptional success too. Did Mages really not only need to ignore normal resistance rules, but have a means to ignore their own rules too?

>>51519497
>yantras lower the threshold of exceptional success too
no they don't

>>51519154
Cheiron or other hunter groups as the bad guys.

>>51519778

I think you build your opposition in Deviant, but you could very well have Cheiron by the group that (Re)made you.

>>51519803
Cheiron is a legitimate company that does nothing wrong, and anyone who says otherwise will get sued.

>>51519883

I'm still sad we having seen something dealing with their ludicrous longevity. Folks on the forums have suggested seeing them as a Greek mystery cult in Roman times and that would be a blast to see.

>>51519580
I was thinking of Praxes.

>>51519901
Which is completely silly and I decide to ignore. Cheiron is just a pharmaceutical company that re-used the logo, and its board of directors aren't alien invaders either.

>>51519929

The alien invaders thing is dumb, but I adore the idea of a pharmaceutical corp being the latest in a really long line of masks for this healer-cult.

Gentlemen! How do we fix Beast?

>>51519154
Why are Noddists so godamn dumb ?

>Book of Nod(TM)
>Diabelrie is bad
>Like, Really bad
>Don't do it bro
>For real

>"Noddists"
>"Diabelrize humane vampires as they are unworthy of the Blood"

>>51520338

Diablerie is bad if you do it to Vampires of a lower generation than you. Because you're probably going to play home to that elder's soul.

Powerful Vampires have nothing to fear from diablerie of higher generation vampires. You just eat that poor guys soul.

>>51520203
We burn it down, and salt the earth where it once stood.

>>51520376
"Thou shalt not suffer your Childe to live If it is found that he has killed one of your Brothers and has drunk his heart’s blood. This is the Serpent’s Way, and I will not abide it."

>>51520203

You don't, you just play a game that you're going to like more from the get-go. With such a rich and plentiful amount of games out right now, there's no reason to just not avoid something you don't care for.

For mta revised, is there an actual book for Technocracy characters themselves? Coming off vanilla mage and reading the convention book for the void engineers there looks to be some mechanical discrepancies between them and regular mage characters, but they aren't explained.

>>51520203
Play Bygone Bestiary and when people complain that you are literally playing otherkin remind them that at least it's not Beast.

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>>51520484
Guide To The Technocracy and the five Revised Conventionbooks are your friends. Be seeing you, citizen.

>>51520805

I can only find Guide To The Technocracy in the pre-revised folder in the mega. Is there a revised version that isn't in the mega or is it still compatible?

>>51520828
Guide To The Technocracy is pre-revised but it still works, as long as you combine it with the Conventionbooks.

>>51520844

Cool, thanks a lot man.

>>51520854
You might also want to check out Sufficient Velocity for Panopticon Quest and the White Wolf thread, it's filled with autism as usual but this dude MJ12 Commando has done his best to bring the Technocracy up to the modern standard and has homebrewed a tonne of stuff for it.

Oh right; and written a quest that's longer than War And Peace from the viewpoint of a Technocrat; it's really good.

>>51520899

I'll check them out, thanks again.

>>51520376
Nah, the reason they Diablerize is to bring themselves closer to Caine. Remember the path was made by a bunch of extra edgy Assamites who wanted to bastardize the Path of Blood but not be called an Antedeluvian shill.

>>51520923
>As if I need thanks for bringing the light of the Technocratic Union to the masses.
>As if I need any reward to tell people how much better it is to be a loyal Technocrat than a filthy Reality Deviant.
>Muh Precepts of Damian.

Sorry to feed the magewank, but I have to know, as I have little knowledge of the Splat.

What's the point of wanking Archmages so bad, if just by entering our reality, they break the consensus and get fucked by paradox? They look absurdly powerful, but if just by existing in the same reality as their adversaries, they automatically lose the fight, and take the world with them, isn't it absurd to say they can do X or Y against all the other big bads of the other splats?

>>51521029
The autism and sperging that follows is on your head.

>>51520941
Wasn't the PoC created by the Sabbat ?

>>51521029
You could always just fuck off and read the previous twenty threads if you really want an answer.

>>51521029

None of that actually changes the fact that high-level Archmages dominate Antediluvians entirely.

>>51521029
Magefags are the kind of people who don't give a crap about the practical situation and only care about wanking off about theoretical power levels and how much better they are because they like said splat the most

I'd think most people would have realized that by now with how many fights they pick

>>51521237

What use is being powerful, if you can just be powerful in your own little room with no way to contact the outside?

>>51521253
Depends what your end goal is.

>>51521251
>because they like said splat the most
I would actually put magefags right under vampfags for splat bias.

>>51521253
>little room
Archmages have the whole Tellurian as their staging ground. They do not care for the trivialities of earth. They form their own personal planets if they are in need of a place to call home.

>>51521211
It was created by an Assamite Antitribu in the Sabbat who basically tried to bastardize the Path of Blood that he was too much of an idiot to properly grasp.

>>51521299
From what i've seen magefags are way more annoying about it then vampirefags
t.werewolf fag

>>51521307
>magefags are way more annoying
I don't know, Anon. Vampfags are really blind at times.

>>51521253
This is really hilarious cause everyone is stuck on earth (a little room) while Archmages have everything else to play with. What use is being powerful if you're just gonna be powerful on Earth.

>>51521341
>what use is being powerful in the only place that actually matters
I wonder

>>51521307
It's more annoying when players somehow convince themselves that entities (Antediluvians) barely above planetary level equate to entities (Archmages) that affect entire galaxies. Of course magefags are going to attack the players with disregard for common fucking sense.

>>51521307
The only reason they seem more annoying is cause the texts back up their little power trip. Vampfags have no such excuse for their autism.

>>51521367
Vampfags also have a habit of citing non-canon material all the fucking time.

>>51521352
>the only place that actually matters
According to you

>>51521299
>Archmages have the whole Tellurian as their staging ground. They do not care for the trivialities of earth. They form their own personal planets if they are in need of a place to call home.

That's really great and all. but it doesn't answer the point I've made.

>They can obliterate anyone they want because they are nigh omnipotent

Except they can't because the moment they try to put those powers to use anywhere outside their invented universes, reality collapses around them and they get bumfucked by the consensus.

it's like saying that you're awesome because you can turn invisible but only when people aren't looking a you.

>>51521393
I have this sick feeling that you don't know how far the Consensus actually reaches.

How about everyone just don't wank over who has the bigger imaginary game dick.

>>51521393

The Deep Umbra isn't affected by the Consensus. I suggest you read more about the Void Engineers and the various extremities they have accomplished in the far reaches of space. Entire planets made of machinery. Dyson Spheres sucking the life out of stars bigger than our own sun.

>>51521352
Nothing else matters, exists or will ever exist outside of my little room in the whole of creation. This is the argument of someone desperate to give their situation meaning by devaluing everything that falls outside of it. You've only ever known Earth bullshit, but clearly your bullshit is better than all other bullshit. Hell, your bullshit is the only one that exists.

>>51521425
and yet none of that actually matters in a practical sense

>>51521400
You can thank a certain Anon for bringing this up again.

>>51521431
According to you

>>51521431

Why do you think earth is so special, Anon? The Technocratic Union has encountered many extraterrestrial civilizations in the Deep Umbra. You're looking at this from an all too human-centric view.

>>51521443
>>51521461
Its not real

Can we officially vote to kick all Mage players from this topic?

Sick of seeing everything of WoD being filled with nonstop talking about this shitting game.

thnx

Can we officially vote to kick all Vampire players from this topic?

Sick of seeing everything of WoD being filled with nonstop ignorance and misinformation.

thnx

So... what are some of the characters you guys are playing or have on the backburner?

Additionally what are some of their long term goals?

>>51521430
Isn't Earth where all the people with Avatars are though?

>>51521431

earth would be destroyed without the void engineers

>>51521545
Yes and where everything that matters in the setting takes place but lets ignore that so we can jerk off about power levels more

>>51521545
Most of them. The truly powerful mages never decide to stay for long. Part of achieving greater power is leaving normalcy behind.

>>51520203
Give them a villain that is an existential threat to humanity to justify their existence.

>>51521557
I'm sorry your beloved Masquerade isn't as far reaching as Ascension. Your worldly matters do not dictate the theme of the other lines. It is very arrogant to assume otherwise.

>>51521569
They already have one SJWs
>>51521575
Why is it always vampire you guys go after?

Can we kick all Werewolf players from this topic?

Sick of seeing everything of WoD being filled with nonstop Garou nonsense and animal kin faggotry.

thnx

>>51521508

I'm about to retake a Vampire (Masquerade) campaign with some friends, set in New Orleans.

My character is a Ventrue Lawyer who got shat on by the Sabbat, and manipulated by the Lasombra, provoked an Anarch riot, which ended up expelling the already weakened Camarilla from the city. When the last game ended, the Sabbat gave him the choice to join, or die, and he chose to Join, while the other players chose to flee. We're going to retake the game a decade from that encounter.

Can we kick all Magefag players from this topic?

Sick of seeing everything of WoD being filled with elitism and discussion on their outdated poor game mechanics.

thnx.

>>51521580
>>51521589
>forgetting the officially part

>>51521578
The stereotype of Vampfags being biased, misinformed and disgustingly pretentious. We can hardly assume otherwise.

>>51521591
YEAH!

It's gotta be official!

>>officially official

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>Vampfags getting angry at mechanics they don't like

>>51521029

You just started something you can't hope to win.

Can we kick all oWoDfag players from this topic?

Sick of seeing everything of CofD being filled with elitism and discussion on their outdated poor game mechanics.

thnx.

>>51521637
>outdated poor game machanics
One of the big reasons why magefags always win these discussions. You can thank Brucato for making it even worse.

>>51521619
But that isn't what's happening?

I want to play Mage 2e where can I find a game?

>tfw changeling players and werewolf players keep trying to cause chaos by putting magefags and vampfags against each other and everyone else is too dumb to see it

>>51521673
More victories for the magefags

These arguments have always end the same way.
Archmage turning Cain into a lawn chair.

>>51521673
>implying its not demon players

>>51521717
>Implying it's not Hunter players

>>51521748
You're right that makes too much sense

>>51521705
No pussy ass mage could go against Caine.

He's Godlike.

Faggot.

>>51521705
And than God turns the Archmage into 7 lawn chairs because God is an Archmage. What did you think the Bible meant when it said Man was created in God's own image?

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>>51521758
God is not an archmage, you fucking idiot.

>>51521651
There was an attempt at an update but magefags threw a hissy.

OH NO! BALANCE! WAAAAAAAAAAH!

>>51521637
top lel

>>51521619
>>assuming Vampirefags isn't the best written and most balanced and everything after is a mess.

>>51521758
>Mage is God
>Mage cursed Cain
>Mage Supremacy

>>51521757

Come back to me when Cain can erase entire galaxies like an Archmage can.

>>51521793
come back to me when that actually matters

>>51521798
What a cop-out

>>51521817
I'm sorry for that all your wanking none of your so called powers actually do anything remotely impressive

>>51521824
I love denial

>>51521793

>HEY GUISE I CAN ERASE GALAXIES!!!1
>Will you do it?
>N-no... BUT I CAN!
>Then show me
>I can't show you, BUT I TOTALLY CAN
>Then do it
>I can do it over there, but not here, BUT I AM OMNIPOTENT GUISE!!!!!!1
>Then do it
>N-no. I AM THE BEST

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>>51521781
>>God is outside any title given by any creature inside oWoD or nWoD, namely just called Creator.
>>God created "Mages" which is 1% of his power.
>>Caine was made in the likeness of Itself, but below.
>>Caine is Godlike, superior over 1% of God's self that is called Mages
>>Creator cursed Caine
>>Vampire Supremacy.

fix'ed.

>>51521793
Call me when your immortal and the erasing of a Galaxy affects you.

>>51521834
10/10

>>51521671
Anywhere but here by the looks of things.

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>>51521834
>>51521837

Vampfags are getting pissed now

>>51521837
None of that made any sense. Also what is grammar? I can tell you're getting a tad bit mad.

>>51521837
preach it mon...

I just realized that the vampfags are far more immature than the magefags

I thought they were better than this

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>>51521863
English isn't my first language but let me try again.

>>God isn't a Mage, It is beyond the realm of what a Mage is.
>>The Creator cursed Caine, who is essentially a greater portion of Itself.
>>Mages are 1% of God.
>>Cain is more powerful than any Mage.
>>Vampire Supremacy.

Trying to find a way to dumb it down enough for your magefaggish brain to understand.

>>51521874
I didn't realize Magefags where dumber then Vampirefags.

I thought they were smarter than this.

>>51521883

This is why the vampfags never have a basis for their arguments. They keep making up fanfiction to suit their whims.

>>51521883
That's not exactly how it happened, Anon.

>>51521893
Disapprove it with proof, until you can, shut the fuck up and let the intelligent person speak.

>>ftw village mage idiot tries to dilute the evidence.

Prove God is a Mage.
Prove Mages are on par with God.
Prove a Mage can 1v1 a vampire.

>>51521908
Which part?

>>51521834

Except Anon is right? It's not even galaxies, Forces 9 explicitly allows the Archmage/Exemplar to alter the whole Tellurian. This isn't up for discussion.

>>51521914
...I'm not sure how to even respond to this. You're either a troll or incredibly dim. I hope it's the former for your sake.

Ok here is the literal canon answer to this stupid back and forth.

Cain is rediculously strong.

Archmage is probably stronger (If they even exist as the upper levels that keep getting thrown around here)

God is above that.

God basically fucks up anyone that messes with Cain

None of this matters just answer this anon's question instead >>51521508 and let this nightmare end.

>>51521928
Except they actually can't do that in any real sense or where it matters

>>51521941
>God is above that

Debateable. Each gameline has their own version of a supreme being. You need to decide which is one is "more supreme" when you mix the settings. It's up to you whether or not God is stronger than an Archmage, or the Triat is stronger than God.

>>51521941
Nooooo, you opened that can of worms again.

>>51521949
So naturally this discussion is pointless. Because the outcome depends on the ST.

Archmage vs God vs Triat vs Archmage vs God

It's not going to end.

>>51521943

That doesn't invalidate their capabilities. Which is all that matters in this current argument.

>>51521983
Except it does because that power might as well not exist if they can't do anything with it

This is actually worse than onyx path forums.

>>51521991

These powers do indeed exist. They are canonically defined in Masters of the Art and can be used beyond the Consensus.

>>51522003
but you can't do anything with them so they don't matter

>>51522003
No practitioners are canonically outlined so it's literally just theoretical conjecture.

>>51521991
>What is Masters of the Art

>>51522001
The oWoD section of the forums is full of softies with no backbones. Of course this is going to be worse.

>>51522013
If you can't do anything with these powers to effect the actual world that matters then the powers themselves don't matter
Get over it

>>51522009

Funny that, because the book is written in-character and they explicitly exist.

>>51522021

This is correct. They can't affect anything within the asteroid belt, as that's how far the Consensus goes. They can affect the rest of the universe though!

>>51521941
>>51521508
My first game WoD game was a VtR LARP that I joined late into the game's cycle. I had the rough idea for a vampire private investigator and I was led to a Mekhet Ordo Dracul. Then other people in the covenant and around me tried to 'help' me build him by trying to shoehorn him into the same role of a player that had left as an Ordo sniper/weapons expert. If I could find a game in this forsaken town I'd like to play him again, but this time actually getting more than half a backstory and built as a private dick, instead of something half and half.

Alternatively I'd like to run DtD. Or play nearly any Unchained.

Or get more Scion info out and do something with that.

>>51522041
Shame none of the rest of the universe matters and they can't do shit to the small section that does

Honestly the main reason magefags are so salty is that vampire is the #1 line in terms of popularity, and mage attracts the type of people who hate being second best at anything, no matter how superficial.

So they shit up thread after thread power wanking. Honestly nobody would have a problem with people posting about mage if they didn't have to insult other lines when they did.

>>51522055

Indeed. It just goes to show how powerful the subconscious minds of humanity are if they can block out something powerful enough to turn the universe inside-out.

>>51522063
Popularity =/= Power level

We actually reap the benefits of Vampire being the biggest grab. Vampire is the backbone of WW/OPP, this isn't some massive realization.

>>51522081
>missing the point of that post this hard
wew

>>51522063
I don't see how this relates to anything? Magefags don't really care about any of that.

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>>51521941
God created Cain in his image and beyond that.

Mages are just humans, albeit powerful ones.

Lets look at top tier Vampire Abilities, all Level 10 have Plot Device + an named ability.

>>Celerity 9: React to anything Instantly, become invisible physically,
>>Obfuscation 9: Remove your own or another's existence from reality.
>>Quietus 9: Plot Device and Blood is immortal.
>>Potence 9: Powerful enough to 1hit KO any being with a flick.
>>Presence 9: Project everyone into a Dream or Nightmare.
>>Animalism 9: Control all animals with undetermined mile radius
>>Fortitude 9: Make your limbs/body parts indestructible
>>Protean 9: Turn into a indestructible blazing inferno of fire.
>>Serpentis 9: Walk in the sun without harm, go in Aeon godmode.
>>Dominate 9: Own anyones mind and control them instantly
>>Necromancy 9: Control any spirit, ghost, zombie, wraith, spectre.
Kill any spirit, ghost, zombie, wraith, spectre.
Raise an uncountable army of spirits, ghost, zombies, wraiths, spectre. Control the Shadowlands, create Maelstroms.
>>Obternation 9: Control all shadows, Abyss.
>>Auspex 9: Control the Spirit World, Have godlike precognition abilities, know all peoples actions and feelings.
>>Chimeristry 9: Make realities, live in them, control them, make them real.
>> Dementation 9: Immune to mental magick, curses, etc.
>>Vicissitude 9: Assume any shape, dissolve into the earth, recreate body after death (sic),.
>>Thaumatergy 9: Archmage tier Vampire Magic.

That's not even counting all the other clans disciplines etc.

See how ridiculous it can be if you just throw out top tier levels at abilities.

And those are just T9.

>>51522136

You're not helping to calm this thread down. Someone is just going to come along and point out that Sphere 9 abilities already outstrip Discipline 10 abilities. I notice you didn't even bother to list those.

>>51522159
Its not my job to make magefags rebuttal for them

Plot Device, God tier level.

Use your imagination, kiddo.
>> Someone is just going to come along and point out that Sphere 9 abilities already outstrip Discipline 10 abilities.
>>Sounds like bias to me.

>>51522136

Masters of the Art pgs 65 - 75

>Forces 9 Remove gravity from the universe causing all the stars to go supernova. You have now destroyed the universe.

>Entropy 9 Complete control over destiny. Existence is now your personal fanfic. You are Omniscient.

>Time 9 You exist outside of time. You are older than existence and younger than the nothing

>Life 9 You have true immortality in the grandest sense of the word. You cannot be killed by any means.

>Mind 9 You are now the single mind of the universe. You exist as everyone. Individuality no longer exists. The rarest of the Archspheres.

>Prime 9 You can create universes in the palm of your hands. You are omnipotent within said universes with your knowledge of the spheres as the only limitation. The Consensus is now your bitch.

>>51522136
>>51522159
Honestly he's probably a magefag false flagging so he can continue to shitpost about how the "popular kid" is worse than him in every way.

Let's talk about Hunter.

>>51522136
None of that is comparable to what the Archspheres can actually muster. Not even 10 dots in a Discipline is going to match them. They made the wrong choice to define "plot device" powers.

>>51522219
>>51522192
>>51522136

>Chimeristry 9: Make realities, live in them, control them, make them real.
>Prime 9 You can create universes in the palm of your hands. You are omnipotent within said universes with your knowledge of the spheres as the only limitation. The Consensus is now your bitch.

EXACTLY THE SAME FUCKING THING

This is ridiculous. it's like watching retards argue over what's wetter, coke or pepsi.

>>51522219
>the rules are wrong
wew

>>51522192
Jesus. That's beyond overpowered.

>>51522192
>>Force 9 counter by Fortitude 9
>>Entropy 9 countered by Chimestry 9
>>Time 9 countered by Obfuscation 9
>>Life 9 countered by Quietus 9
>>Mind 9 countered by Dementation 9
>>Prime 9 countered by the fact that God is on Caines side, so to speak and will rekt anyone who fucks with Cain.

zzz

>>51522219
Magefag detected.

>>51522202
I know right, they exist on a level that refuses to be balanced purely out of whiney refusal.

>>51522241
YEEEEET YEEET!

>>51522236
I like how Chimerstry 10 didn't save Zapathasura from being killed with 5-dot Sphere effects. I continue to be disappointed by the Antediluvians.

>>51522192
You forgot the disclaimer where you can't actually do any of this anywhere that it matters

>>51522202
On the topic of Hunter, how does true faith work? I see it thrown around a lot on this threads (Or used to, since nowadays everything is magewank), but I've never seen it used in a game.

>>51522241
>Implying God isn't an Archmage

>>51522241
Sorry, the Antediluvians can't reach the Archmasters from earth.

>>51522241
None of that is going to counter the related Spheres. The Ravnos Antediluvian was one of the founders of Fortitude, yet it still died by solar beams.....

>>51519221
Yes forcing things with similar resonance into an area helps build essence faster. You're looking at roughly 150 essence in a week.

The shitposters in here are most likely Australian with some Euroshits. Amerifats are all asleep or at work/school.

They are basically subhumans and this is all thry have left. :3

>>51522254
>>Antediluvians don't have T10

Nice try.

>>51522261
>>implying god is.
get the fuck out retard, we're past that.

>>51522265
Caine isn't a Antediluvian,lmao.

>>51522277
Mage fags comparing Ante's with Caine.

Lmao fucking idiots everywhere.

>>God will erase anyone who fucks with Caine.

I win.

All abilities come from Caine and he is the master of all.

>>51522241
Why are you applying abilities that don't exist to Disciplines that have already been exemplified?

This is coming from an Vampire player.

>>51522309
>Antediluvians don't have 10-dot Disciplines

Ok, I now know for a fact that you lack the knowledge to keep up this discussion.

>>51522309

Stop acting like a child. You're making this so much worse for everyone. Even your likeminded Masquerade peers are probably going to be disappointed reading this comment.

>>51522293

Reminder to cuck all aussie faggots

>>51522318
I'm proving a point.

Cain with T10 Disciplines can counter anything an Archmage can throw at him.

The point is that its all pointless.

>>51522328
Disregarding, because you;'re an idiot who doesn't understand nWoD canon.
What I'm saying, in comparison to Caine, they don't match up.

>>51522340
Nice samefagging and trying to pretend that you're a Vampirefag.

Almost got me though.

>>51522340
>>51522328
>>51522318
>>51522309

Ausfag seaniggers and swedecuck limey turds gtfo

>>51522347
>nWoD canon
I now know that you're a troll. Why? Because no one is this stupid.

>>51522361
Good one, amerikan neckbeardo.

>>51522353
jokes on you, i'm french.

>>51522368
Are all vampfags this intolerant?

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>tfw you realize the masquerade representative is really a moronic amphibian from france

>>51522368

Not help your case here, yuro shitstain.

I love how there is maybe one or two magefags samefagging one vampirefag.

Typical magefag behavior.

>>51522434

Can you leave, please? You already lost at this point.

>>51522442
>>Claims I lost.

Boy, I'm loling because this whole last end of the thread you've all be responding to me.

Explain how I lost tho? xD

I haven't seen a eurofag in a long time. Time to take pictures.

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>>51522136
against
>>51522192

Mage wins again. Great way to wake up.

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>>51522554
Stay delusional and ignorant to the deeper understanding of the point that was being made.

I feel bad for you and Mary Sue characters.

>you can get better and more helpful game discussion on OP forums than here

You guys are an embarassment.

>>51522603

No its worse

>/v/ has better, more civil wod discussions than /tg/

I know where all the not shitposters went now

>>51522649
It wouldn't be so bad if elitist Mage players didn't crowd the thread and if Vampire Players just ignored them.

>>51522603

WoD/CofD general stopped having a reason for its existance when quest threads stopped being on /tg/. But we kept it going and now we're in the final stages of a general: shitposting as far as the eye can see.

/v/ or the OPP are pretty much the only places to go at this point if you don't just want to shitpost or have a question that can be answered in a post or two when people get tired of shitposting.

This should be the last general, but it won't be.

>>51522710
Truth; The post.

>>51522603
actually despite what these drama queens will tell you
>>51522649
>>51522710
people will still answer whatever question you have. Its just in the downtime magefags like to wank about their power levels and shit on vampires (and the other splats to a lesser degree)

Don't let that stop you from talking about whatever you want

>>51521914
Read Masters of the Art, Anon. You will soon be enlightened and understand your former mistakes and embrace the glory that is mage supremacy

>>51522187
you are aware that level 10 spheres are plot device, too?

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>>51522828
Despite the fighting, the Vampire players have a point.

Mages are incredibly unbalanced and despite attempts to balance them, Mages refuse to conform and be balanced.

>>51522853
Or you can play like a logical, intelligent person and stop pretending you don't see the obvious overpowered fallacies of Mage: Asc/Awk.

Sorry, as a overall WoD player, not just VtM/R, I find that Mage Asc/Awk to be the most unbalanced, boring min-maxing ''HUR LOOK AT HOW STRONG I IZZ'' game of sword-fighting ever.

>>51522950
I don't really care about these fights, my favorite lines are werewolf and demon, but mage seems sort of unfun to me just based on the premise and scale alone. Too much freedom isn't always a good thing

>>51522968
Mage is literally the Naruto/Sasuke fusion of the WoD world.

>>Always has multiple moves/tricks up their sleeve.
>>Wins despite discrepancies in plot.
>>Comes back stronger than before despite overwhelming odds.
>>Impossible to properly balance.

My favorite is either Mummies or Vampires, just make they are the most balanced to me.

>>51522853
The rules in Master of the Art are basically unusable.

>>51522259
An oWoD thing, basically gaining superpowers fueled by your belief in god. It's notorious for turning the ordinarily weak hunter into a monster destroying warrior of god.

>>51523106
Hunters are the lowest of the low-tier.

If one had enough time to prepare, maybe the could take out an elder.

But anything above that, no.

>>51523126
>Hunters with true faith
>low tier

Hahaha, oh boy are you wrong.

>>51522259
>how does true faith work?

It "activates" when a person has undergone a sort of religious experience in their life, something that completely and utterly affirms their faith as being "right". A person with true faith isn't just religious, they're *SUPER* religious.

They never doubt, never question whether what they're doing is right or not: they KNOW, with absolutely, unshakeable certainty, that they are in the right.

In the craptastic World of Darkness, there's very few people with True Faith around... for good reason. And the few people that do have it, are rarely higher than level one, or maybe two.

True Faith can be "lost" (and regained) as well. people usually lose it when tiny smidgeons of doubt set in: a person who finds himself forced to torture (for example) a vampire in order to gain information on their enemy might very well end up losing his True Faith because he doesn't believe that he's doing the right thing.

On the other hand, another person with True Faith might believe that torturing a "monster" is A-okay. It all depends on the individual, but every person needs a code to live by, and if they ever stray from that code then POOF it's gone.

Also, lvl 4-5 True Faith can be pretty badass. Not unbeatable or anything, but pretty scary to encounter. Complete immunity to all mental/emotional manipulation, and vampires flee from the person's presence the moment they open their mouth, basically.

Even Elders can be forced to spend one Willpower point every turn just to remain in their presence, and higher intelligence actually makes it HARDER to attempt to remain in their presence, because the vamps realise their guilt and horror all the faster and greater due to enhanced intelligence.

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>>51523446
>>mfw thinks that low Humanity Gen Elder+ will flee from True Faith.
>>mfw he dun know about Golconda being immune to True Faith
>>Mfw he doesn't realize Vampires can have True Faith

>>51523543
From V20
> Any vampire hearing the person pray, preach, or recite psalms, or who is touched by the faithful, may be forced to flee immediately. A vampire who is unable to flee is reduced to a gibbering wreck, flailing on the floor and screaming, sobbing, or begging forgiveness. To avoid fleeing, the vampire must either expend one Willpower point per turn or make a Stamina roll each turn (difficulty of 5 + her own Intelligence) — the higher the vampire’s Intelligence, the higher the difficulty, as the more tortured and guilty she feels.
This doesn't say anything about vampires with True Faith or with Golconda, who wouldn't often stir the righteous anger of a vampire hunter, but Elders and maybe even Metuselahs, are probably going to get wrecked, even with low Humanity or on a path. They're also immune to all mind-control powers.

>>51522682

They would samefag until someone took the bait. /tg/ is extremely awful at not getting their dumb asses trolled.

Got a couple of questions:

1 - What does TFV actually want to accomplish? I feel that it's never been adequately explained - they want to bump back, but what does that mean? Say they find out about a group of werewolves, but they're just running around in the wild. Would TFV go after them?

2 - Would TFV ever cooperate with any of the other splats? They get funding from the vamps, so assuming they wanted to not be dependent on them anymore - could they switch over to the Mages/Seers? Could they cooperate with a Werewolf pack to put down some evil spirits? Or are they the Humanity Fuck Yeah faction?

3- How big is TFV? I have their cell in a city of 300,000 as 20 people, but that's because there's been a spike of Vamp activity. How big is the organization overall?

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>>51523606
I. Vampires with True Faith abide by the same rules Hunters with True Faith have and receive likeminded perks from it.
II. Vampires under Golconda cannot be frenzied, free of clan curse, reduced blood consumption, leaving behind Vampirism thus isn't evil.
III. I would suspect Vampires with low humanity (Around 3-1) can in turn fall into Beastialism (A counter-form of True Faith). In which they are unaffected by True Faith. Coupled with an Methuselah type power, it would be pretty impossible.

>>51523731
Yes, but where are you pulling from that True Faith wouldn't affect them? They're still vampires, even with True Faith or Goconda, and this isn't a frenzy. What the hell is "Bestialism"?

>Roman legions employed Fomori
>Legionnaires casting pilii with their savage, dexterous phalii into werewolf Celts

I never knew I wanted this!

>>51523762
Various Vampire books namely ones concerning Paths,True Faith, Salubri books, Hunter the Virgil Books, Golconda book 'Chaining the Beast'.

I. You haven't disproven this.
II. Read the books, they say this, reducing someone to flee or to a uncontrollable wreck, etc is just candy words for saying Frenzy.
Frenzy = Fight, or Flee.
IIa. No you're wrong, Vampires with Golconda are canonically considered to have transcended past being vampires. It says so.
IIb. Stop cherry picking, Hunterfag. True Faith is same for all.
III. Beastialism, the path of accepting your inner Beast/inner Wright without coming into Wassail.

>>51523673

1. Homeland Security, first and foremost. TFV tends to act when a God-Machine cult militarized, or when a Vampire uses a domestic terrorist cell as a cover for their political machinations (though naturally that one might get called off early). If it's not a passive or direct national threat, it's not high priority. A pack of Werewolves might be left alone, but maybe not if their territory is way too close to a military base or seat of government for comfort.

2. Most of TFV does not know about the Vampire infiltration. If people like the Barrett Commission were to bust that open, TFV would probably fall apart completely and things go full Delta Green. So, no, that won't happen.

They're also not full Humanity, Fuck Yeah. The military could have units with other splats in it, Dogs of War mentions this in a sidebar. They just won't be in TFV by default because cancer cells aren't within the scope of the game. If they're NPCs in your game, then there's no problem with having a consulting Psychic or Changeling or Werewolf or something.

3. As big as you'd like it to be. Joint Task Forces don't have hard numbers, and White Wolf/OPP will probably never put down hard population numbers for Compacts and Conspiracies.

>>51523858
1) It is written nowhere in V20 that having True Faith makes you immune to its effects. I don't know about other books.
2) No, it is explicitly not a frenzy, otherwise they would have written it that way since it is an antagonist section where they describe their powers.
3) Again, it is not written that Golconda makes you immune to True Faith. You may be a better and more humane vampire, but you're still cursed until final death, after which you might end up better than the average dead person.
4) True Faith doesn't care about Paths, vampfag.

Any Mage 2e games online?

>>51523955

Cool. So does this mean that cooperation with a local Consilium against the Vampires is not out of the question?

>>51523804
Is this for real?

>>51524029

Not at all, though there's some possible caveats:

1. Your average TFV agent is probably not a Sleepwalker. TFV doesn't know the ins and outs of Mages, but they're aware that there's some aspect of the human will that makes someone receptive to seeing or even using reality bending powers. These kinds of people are usually screened out of direct fieldwork, since the last thing you want is an soldier potentially Awakening on a field mission.

What this means is that TFV and whatever Consillum's cabals are involved will often be working seperately.

2. The Consillum probably has a go-between or a cover to protect itself.

Seers aren't everywhere, but there's just enough of them in high places to worry. TFV will most likely be contacting the Consillum through a front organization, if not an outright Guardian Labyrinth Cult. It is entirely possible that not everyone in the Consillum knows that the co-op is even happening.

Likewise, the co-op may not necessarily be an action that has approval among TFV top brass.

3. Homeland Security comes first and foremost. The Pentacle is the most human-friendly of the Mage factions but they are still a revolutionary organization. The US government looks down heavily on those, and a single whiff of a potentially dangerous action on the Consillum's part may wreck the whole co-op.

The partnership can work, but it will be very brief, very secretive, and very, very dangerous.

>>51523994
I. You're missing the fucking point, idiot. But yes go ahead and pretend that the example you gave about what True Faith is and pertains to, doesn't apply to Vampires.
II.Yes it is and they did, stay delusional.
III. Yes it does, does you fucking moron. Learn how to read beyond your boring Hunterfag trash.
IIII. mfw I'd like to see a Human True Faith not get completely frucking raped by a Human 1-2 Methusalah.

Hunters are no where near, or will ever be close to a Vampire level.
True Faith is a retarded concept that barely makes any sense and they only gave it to them, because Hunters are weak af pussies.

#getrekthunterfag

>>51522853
Kek, it's a book that is on the level of Dirty Secrets of the Black Hand, Blood Treachery or Freak Legion. It's just a poorly written book.
>>51522968
Back in oWoD they published this Merit tree as a joke that was only open to Mages. As you took dots in it you got more and more munchkin based powers, including one which let you derail the game to talk about whether a not a spell was Vulgar for a number of hours, but eventually it just let you replace the ST entirely with yourself.

>>51524230
You're such a child. All I am saying comes from V20, which definitely isn't "Hunterfag trash", as you call it. Go back to fighting your losing war against the mage posters if you can't even try to be civil.

>>51524276
And you're delusional and refuse to listen to anyone's citations but your own.

I was being very civil until you started acting like a prat.

So yeah. Good one,kiddo.

>>51524293
What citations? I see none in your posts. I could even post the page references for mine, if you want.

>>51521508
Paranoid cop who saw some shit in WW3
Dean McCoppin from the Iron Giant
Aztec Girl Scout Rambo

all of them are mortals, I've never played anything but vanilla CofD

I'm tired of the archsphere bullshit

page 66
Casting Difficulties
Most casting difficulties are based on the Effect’s Sphere
level plus some modifier. With the Arch-Spheres, casting
difficulties can quickly become stratospheric. That’s not a
big problem; any time the difficulty is pushed to 9, additional
difficulty increases simply require additional successes from
the die roll. Thus, if you have a difficulty of 9 and receive
one additional push, you now require at least two successes to
achieve a base Effect. This removes successes from the total
roll, so the final Effect is not as potent.
Because of the extreme difficulty in casting Arch-Spheres
and in achieving the necessary successes to affect cosmic
changes, most Archmagic is done through extended ritual,
with Quintessence. This is perfectly all right; mages should
have to work to pull off this much torque.

6+3 = 9 = 2suc needer to equal 1
7+3 = 10 = 3suc needer to equal 1
8+3 = 11 = 4suc needer to equal 1
9+3 = 12 = 5suc needer to equal 1

Thats not even counting the suc it would need to actually cover the earth. going by rev charts. Godlike effects requier 20 or MORE suc. And thats on the city level. and then the Correspondence Ranges at least 6 more suc to target anywhere. so going by the low end (20+6)*5 = 130suc at Diff9 . Its fucking suicide

Should I choose a Ruling or non-Ruling spell as my praxis?

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>>51524293
The reason they were citing V20 over the ones you cited was due to the fact that V20 was published a great while after
>Vampire books namely ones concerning Paths
>Salubri books
>Hunter the Virgil Books
I think you meant Reckoning, right? True Faith doesn't come up an awful lot in H:tR due to the fact that they're already sort of 'blessed' by whatever is controlling/directing/creating them. Canonically I don't believe it was ever answered who the Messengers were, but my money was always on Lucifer, given how the Hunters interacted with Low-Torment Demons (They looked 'Right' to the Second Sight, much like in-balance Kuei-Jin)
>Chaining the Beast

and while those books may say different things, the latest revision of the system for True Faith was in V20, at least as far as Vampire is concerned.

>>51524389

Non-ruling, it'll make your life easier.

>>51522063
Truth

>>51521928
>alter the whole Tellurian expect earth where paradox fucks their assholes raw by RAW

>>51524484
I love how magefags think that they have ez access to this retardedly absurd amount of power without consequences.

Anything Past T8 doesn't exist as far as I'm concerned.

>>51524389
non-ruling for mana savings
ruling for the huge dice pool and potential exp suc

I just use my rote spots for non ruling spellls. Because I mostly know exactlly which effects I need and want. and rotes give me the reach I need in arcane I have low ratings in.

In a World of Darkness where mages don't exist, what's the most powerful kind of supernatural?

>>51524564
Mages
for real though it's Demon, a game we need to talk about way more

>>51524564
Dunno about old

Demon/Mummy in new

>>51524564
I'd say either Mummies or Werewolves, in terms of raw power.

>>51524589
LMAO K, stay in high-torment and be rekt by Holy Presence.

>>51524564
Demon/Mummy in New, Probably some stripe of Fera or Demons again in Old. Old Demons could pull some pretty horrific shit if they had a steady source of faith/torment.
>>51524589
Thank you! It's so under appreciated for what it was, the backstory was awesome and I loved throwing flashbacks of the Pit at my players, always a good way to shake everyone's self-image up.

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Are magefags, vampfags, and werewolfags all one single autist?

>>51524169

Rome was a Wyrm hotbed according to Shattered Dreams, or so ive heard srcond hand.

>>51524712
I barely reach 5 inches

>>51524226
>The Pentacle is the most human-friendly of the Mage factions

"Human-friendly" is relative. Just ask the Mysterium.

I doubt a Consilium would ever directly or openly ally with TFV.

At most, they might offer some quiet assistance to eliminate an mutual annoyance, and only then through back channels like a cryptopoly or "friendly" mystery cult.

In any event, a full Consilium would almost never need the assistance of TFV, and since most of TFV are sleepers, any assistance provided to them could be damaging on a soul level.

I could envision a sleepwalker assistant to a mage councilor or sentinel acting as informant such as a "local expert on cults or mythology" to a TFV contact, and implying that if TFV asked too many questions about any assistance, it would end.

>>51522649
The worst place to discuss anything on 4chan is the thread/board made to discuss it.

>>51524629
Has there been any word about Demon 20th anniversary?

>>51524940
The ease of which it is to find a place, demarks the ease of trolling

If he has three eyes, he dies.

I came back to this thread with the goal of aiding people with more Technocracy questions and I find this instead. Why is SV acting less autistic than you loveable fags?

I mean, come on we can't be losing to fucking Sufficient Velocity.

>>51525219
So I have a question about technocracy if you will. How did Threat Null come to be? Did this guys get lost in Deep Umbra or what?

I haven't read much of Awakening and my knowledge of Owod is cursory at best but this guys look solid

>>51525265
>So I have a question about technocracy if you will. How did Threat Null come to be? Did this guys get lost in Deep Umbra or what?

Right; so there is this phenomenon called Void Adaption, basically the longer you stay in the Deep Umbra, the more you get made into a stereotype of yourself; so when the Dimensional Anomaly of 1999 hit and everyone got fucked, all the Technocratic Union's leadership got stuck in the Void without access to the Quintessence that was being ported to them from earth. This meant that they got twisted into caricatures of themselves due to Void Adaption that they couldn't do anything about except try to postpone a little longer; NWO got made into the Agency, the Syndicate became the Residents, Progenitors became Transhumanity and the Iteration became the Autopolitans. However, the Void Engineers don't seem to have a mirror, or their caricature is just so obsessed with exploration that they all went "fuck it" and are currently having vaguely Star Trek-esque adventures somewhere in Deep Space.

>>51525310
Void Engineers punched into CofD and became Cheiron Group.

On a serious note thanks for explaining.

I know this isn't Scion General, but that idea died pretty hard quickly from lack of information to discuss. Anyhow, has anyone else gotten their backerkit? I'm pretty excited from what we've seen so far.

>>51525385
>Void Engineers punched into CofD and became Cheiron Group.

Nah, Cheiron Group are far closer to a mixture of Syndicate and Progenitors; there isn't really a Void Engineer equivalent in CofD that I know of.

>On a serious note thanks for explaining.
Ipsa Scientia Potestas Est, I must spread the light of knowledge about the Technocratic Union so all can see it's glory. Fuck power debates; I just like the faction alone.

>>51525563
Ech I admit Technocracy is the only thing I miss from old Wod. I like the antagonists in Awakening and I guess Union wouldn't fit the world but I liked it a lot.

>>51525134
>Tremere

>>51523858
>Chaining the Beast
>Golconda book
anon, pls

>>51525219

were winning the being the most autistic contest

>>51524732
Well, Rome was a clusterfuck of Vampires, so that sounds about right.

>>51525707
and Earthbound demons. Garou there must have been pretty busy

>>51525694
I guess SV is sort of weird there, because on one hand it has all sorts of fucking autsists, but on the other hand it has people like MJ12, who has written more words than fucking War and Peace on the Technocracy and whom I basically use as my go-to source for Technocratic lore.

But at least this confirms my hypothesis that Magefags and Vampirefags never change.

>>51521508
Ms. Direction, the hacker demon. I am playing in a combo demon/mage game, and my current goals are to put out my computer worm, not get captured, and continue fucking with different mage factions.

>>51525826
nDemon? What kind of Embeds/Exploits do you have? Made any Cipher progress?

>>51525563
>>51525678
I love the Technocracy a bunch, perhaps more than the Traditions, but unfortunately they're both captive to that Magic v Technology dichotomy that certain sections of the oWoD really liked to push.
>I like the antagonists in Awakening
As do I, I find their motivations to be both repugnant and completely understandable, you can grok the Seers game in moments, which is why I think they work so well.
>Union wouldn't fit the world
I could see parts of the Union working, but it'd have to be split between Pentacle, Scelesti, Banisher and Seers, as their tropes of 'Control', 'Tech' and 'Protect' are too broad to really fit neatly into any one of the factions without distorting the overall whole into unrecognizability.

>>51525868
You could totally do Iteration X as an unwitting cult of the God-Machine; the largest asset the God-Machine has on earth doesn't even know it's an asset.

>>51525868
I see parts of the Union in elements of pentacle orders. Not in style but you could pick out part of each order and form something like technocracy in spirit(uplift and protect the masses, create safe and stable world, swat uppity reality deviants) if not in looks and name

>>51521508
A Ventrue Ordo paper pusher, a Samedi taxi driver and a few undefined hunters.

>>51525983
The Silver Ladder is literally the Union with the technological aesthetic stripped away.

>>51525951
'LORD, we could better help you with the sublime knowledge of the Spirit Arcanum.'
>Nope, it's cool guys, I'm good, I got this.
It-X could totally work like that, but I think they'd work better as an Alienist led faction who has thrown in league with the G-M.
>>51525983
I mean, isn't that just the Free Council with a bit of Silver Ladder mixed in? Really what made the Union so attractive to me was their Humanist aspect, they were focused so much more on the Consensus, which is why they kicked the Traditions around so hard.

>>51521508
An Interdependent Tzimisce that is globetrotting around the world in his giant flashcrafted ghoul whale/apartment , mainly being used as a smuggler and messengers

>>51521717
Literally did this as a demon. May or may not have led to Seers of the Throne blowing up A vampire nightclub in LA named Heartbeat.

>>51526071
Yeah I agree with this.
On a secondary note Cofd seems like a sort of world in with Union lost to Traditions but only worst parts of Traditions making it to the top

>>51525850
Yes, new demon. I'll have to get back to you on character details, but her favorite and most frequent embed to use is identity theft, and it is the first part of her cipher.

>>51525219
>SV
Why should I care again?

>>51526138
I always maintained throughout Ascension's run that really anybody winning would be bad,
>Akashic
Have fun living in the Water Margin
>Celestial Chorus
LOL, GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD.
>Cult of Ecstasy
What Wonders we have to show you/ Where we're going, we won't need eyes.
>Dreamspeakers
Pray to Brother Elk for his meat, or you will die, Pray to Wind for warmth, or you will freeze.
>Euthanatos
Every destiny is absolute, foreordained fates everywhere!
>Order of Hermes
See Mage: the Awakening
>Sons of Ether
I have no problem with this, carry on.
>Verbana
Hope you're a girl, cus this is gonna suuuuuuuuuck.
>Virtual adept
>>>>51499051

>>51524257
>Back in oWoD they published this Merit tree as a joke that was only open to Mages. As you took dots in it you got more and more munchkin based powers, including one which let you derail the game to talk about whether a not a spell was Vulgar for a number of hours, but eventually it just let you replace the ST entirely with yourself.
Source? Or are you making a joke about the entire line?

>>51526357
I swear it was from like a magazine or something, this was like, mid-late 90s, I read it in a Comic shop.
>That's just what an ((Archmage)) would say...

>>51526357
I now imagine my players:
Session 1: They sit on the couch with me
Session 2: They read my notes
Session 3: They color my notes with crayons
Session 4: one of them stole my shoes

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>>51524354

Has it ever been explained why the WoD general has Ghost Dad from MtG as its picture?

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When is Deviant going to be released?

>>51524952
You mean its 2022 anniversary edition? It will probably never come to pass unless ParadoxWolf decides to drop everything that isn't the big 3.
I really hope they make one and its well done though, I have all the OWoD Demon books, a D20 would be a nice endcap for them.

>>51526503
Changeling and Hunter are supposed to be released before it, so maybe next year.

>>51526508
I mean, i'm still waiting for Wraith 20, and that just keeps getting pushed further back. I don't hold out a lot of hope for Demon, it had what, like 10 books?

>>51526535
>keeps getting pushed further back
>the text was just finished a week or two back

I get that the wait's been long, but we just saw its first bit of progress in ages.

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>>51526559
Allow me my Salt. I have wanted a full write-up of Intimation, Argos and Lifeweb for over a decade.

Holy shit, this is all so much worse than Aspel arguing ever was. There isn't an ounce of worthwhile content in here. Burn it down, let's try again.

magefags be so salty when you pull out the books on them

I suggest we head off to a new thread

>>51526590

You're talking to the gal with a Wraith tattoo. Believe me, I'm tired of waiting too, but the book's closer than it's been for months.

>>51526535

I don't think it's happening, but I still really want a Demon 15/20.

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>>51526630
>>51526646
>>51526655

Samefagging detected

>become a vampire
>don't become superhuman
>don't get supersenses
>don't get innate powers of any significance
>go outside at 10am
>die
Why do Kindred claim superiority over mortals again?

>>51526491

A lot of WoD/CofD general picture are intentionally chosen from picture that are not from the settings. Reasonings would range from "because it's supposed to be evocative and used for ST inspiraton" to "most WoD/CofD art isn't that good anyway".

That none of them were the actual answer, that there isn't a lot of WoD/CofD art easily attainable for free with a simple Google like there is for Dresden Files or MtG, is a Mystery that perhaps no Mage can solve

>>51526766
Because vampfags love to think that their precious princes of the night are better than everyone.

>>51526766
to make themselves feel like they got the better deal

>>51526707
Yeah, no. I'd just like some meaningful content instead this constant dick measuring contest. Couldn't care less about oWoD.

>>51526790
I mean the "princes of the night" themselves, not players.

>>51526802

Then stop samefagging, samefagger.

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>>51526657
The Slayers were made for us. They, along with a couple other of the Hosts were amazing in the sort of breadth that they added to other settings.
>You're talking to the gal with a Wraith tattoo.
I have a H:tR creed tattoo, specifically Hermit, what is yours of?

>>51526802
then contribute. What would be your meaningful content?

>>51526817

Talking about WtA.

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>>51526707

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>>51526811

Halaku are dope, and I adore the crossover material they had with Wraith's history.

I got the Silent Legion mark on my back because Wraith no-shit got me through an incredibly suicidal period in my life.

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>>51526809
>>51526707

>>51526843
Everyone seems to be getting paranoid with the magefags lurking about.

>>51526843
>>51526857

You two should start a band with the both one.

>>51526805
Honestly? Self-delusion and post-cost sunk fallacies. You're monstrous, you have inhuman urges, thrust into an awful and baroque society in which you are but a small pawn and will be easily crushed under heel. It's they trying to justify their buyer's remorse through abusing Kine and repeating to themselves endlessly that it's okay, they are immortal now.

>>51526790

This thread as been the exact opposite of what you are accusing. The previous discussion ended in the favor of Mage. We don't fucking care if your disgusting rotten ass wizards shit on everyone else.

>>51526535
10 Books 4 novels and a Translation guide.

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>>51521580
>Can we kick all Werewolf
no, i want to discuss muh doggos

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>>51526852
Exactly, the idea that Charon was one of them, that the Underworld was just a big fuck you to the Loyalist Halaku and that the Wraiths had it so bad because the Halaku couldn't upkeep it any longer. And that's awesome, and a good identifier should you cross over the shroud, since the Silent always were one of my favorites, only slightly being beaten out by the Paupers. As for mine, well I gave it to myself, as a good Hunter should.

>>51526924
I would rather not discuss gay werewolves

>>51521380
That's because our fluff is all over the damn place. To figure things out you have to read every word of every page, twice. The 2e book isn't well indexed and a bit meandering, so you have to read stuff from ten other pages to actually get the whole picture. Also as a raving Vampfag I will say i like the relatively down to earth feeling of Vampire, more about living night to night and dealing with the raging sea that elders will stir up with even small actions. Feels more real to me. Im sure Mage is perfectly fun being the guy who can theoretically do all kinds of shit, but I like the lower power feeling. As a Vamp you're on the bottom of the chain, when Mages or Werewolves come knocking you kind of have to hide or face oblivion.

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>>51526995
W-werewolves are not gay!

>>51526995

You're right, let's talk about pansexual Changelings instead.

>>51526998

I've never understood power level wank. My ideal chronicle is probably "you were Embraced a week ago and have just come out of your first frenzy, now what the hell do you do?" The whole point of urban fantasy is the how relatable it should feel and Vampire has that more than any non-Hunter gameline.

It's also got the clearest shot at personal horror, something I feel a lot of the fandom forgets about in favor of COOL POWERS

>>51527044
>pansexual Changelings
In my experience this is pretty much all Changelings. And if they weren't before they sure are after you use Vainglory on them.

>>51526231
Nice. I'll be interested to hear more.

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>>51527081

The one Changeling chronicle I was in started off as straightforward urban fantasy and ended with my character sleeping with almost every single other PC and NPC, then getting murdered for taking the throne of the freehold by force and trying to get everyone killed in suicidal glorious battle with a Charlatan.

RIP Lionheart, you did nothing wrong.

>>51527044
It's really funny to read the OWoD books (I haven't gotten around to reading any of the new shit since it came out... 12 years ago? Holy shit time flies) and compare their tone versus how most people actually play the game.

>>51527182

Anon, you're really missing out. This is a Spicy Opinion but I'd say pretty much every nWoD/CofD line is better than its oWoD counterpart.

And I'm one of those icky thematic purists who yells at people for having too much fun and not enough personal horror anyway.

>>51523126
As a Vamp GM for Requiem, a group of PREPARED Hunters could take an Elder if they do it really right and have experience fighting Vamps, because I've played both kinds of Cells: Super Tactical guys who actually staked a Prince (oh how delicious it was, that was a hard game) and earlier, a cell who just went "lol stake it" and a couple Neonate Gangrel showed us how horribly wrong we were.

I play nWoD/CofD in case you're all wondering, I actually never played any oWoD stuff except Bloodlines which is what got me into Vamp

>>51521508
I made up a character for the Boston setting that I'll probably never get to use. He's a college aged Moros Mystagogue who figures out his dad isn't his real dad and that said real dad lived in Boston, so he moves to Boston to try and figure out his heritage. Real dad was supposed to be revealed to be a Mage and also dead, because he got mixed up with some of the more unsavory elements of the Boston setting. This was supposed to lead into investigations into the Seers and Red Word cannibals. I also had plans for him to bump into that sleeper reporter and the banisher cabal.

The character, shadow named Roland (for reaons) was going to focus on several Arcana. In descending order: Death (for ghosts, mostly. I also wanted hunting for dad's ghost to be a plot point). Matter (for utility), Space (because it's awesome), Mind (everyone should be at least an apprentice in this), and finally I would put points in Prime and Time if I had some to spare.

Long term goals are iffy, because I planned for the character to be largely apolitical (he IS just a college student) but I suppose I would say learning more about magic and the history of Boston. He joins the Mysterium initially for their resources but over time he comes to really believe in the Order and begins to see magic as more than just a means to an end.

I'll probably flesh out the character more over time, but it'll be a while before I have a chance to use him.

>>51525219
So I have a party consisting of an ITX Cyborg, A VE Space Explorer/Xenobiologist, a Progentior Genetisit/Shapeshifter and an NWO Spy Master/Propogandist. I'm currently running them through an intro chronicle ending with their lab from the future suddenly appearing in the bay (Mostly to facilitate future adventures as well as giving the group a lab to work in). At some point I want the group to have a void ship for umbral alien adventures, a time machine for quests into the past, and a few other features like that.

Quetions
Are there any good traps or obstacles that would be inherent in a Technocracy lab?
and
Are there any other useful 'adventure facilitating' gear the lab should include or even gear that typical Technocracy Labs should include in general?

Apparently the Hunter supplement is out to Beast Kickstarter backers.

>>51527226
I love personal horror. For me, Vamp is all about constantly reminding the players that you're hungry, seeing someone alone makes you a bit peckish even if full, even just one dot of empty Vitae makes The Beast want to feed, getting into an actual fight with a human starts repeated rolls to not just bite the artery out of the neck and suck it like a meaty straw, about the Beast sticking its nose in your mind all the damn time making you want to pull throats out of other neonates, and otherwise be a dick but sweet god if you did the shit-storm would be incredible so you keep your mouth shut and maybe massacre a hobo in an alley and then cry for a week, such is your Requiem.

>>51527226
>This is a Spicy Opinion but I'd say pretty much every nWoD/CofD line is better than its oWoD counterpart.
I'm inclined to agree with you, except maybe when it comes to Vampire. I liked Masquerade's fluff better, although Requiem's is alright too.

>>51527404

The core experience from Vampire is, IMHO, "do I do a lot of smaller bad things by choice or do I bottle it up until I do one really bad thing when I lose control?" It's that constant slippage towards the edge of doing what you "have to" in order to stay alive and continuously justifying it, because the alternatives are being an outright monster or dying.

It's why I love the Covenants in Requiem so much: they either offer you excuses, distractions, or a way out. All of them answer the question of what the fuck you do now, as opposed to just being factions.

>>51527436

Eh, I prefer the broader archetypes over the weirdly Eurocentric ethnic clans, and I think the Covenants have a lot more depth than "the Camarilla are boring, the Anarchs are idiots, and the Sabbat are right about the mythology but are assholes."

I'm also not huge on such a Christian setting outside of the Dark Ages line.

>>51527226
That's likely true. I've always felt oWoD was one of those games that's more interesting to read than to play. I might get a book and run it as a one-shot for a group.

>>51527437
Exactly. It's a bunch of people trying to reconcile themselves with the Beast to make sure they don't slip and fall into the pit and maybe that requires you do bad shit now but it's me or you man. It's all about justifying all the nasty things you do so you don't just slump in a corner and give up, or go full monster and flip a car in public.

The first game I GMed, one of my players was the type to do what he felt, and it was so beautiful because everyone else got to see how the Beast gets more hold over you the farther you spiral, and all resolved to stay at least at five Humanity. The offending moron decided to just take dots of Inhumanity to not totally fall but he acted very Elderly for a Neonate. Good times.

>>51527485

I miss an overarching plot so much, it almost kills nWoD for me, the plots and actions are not grounded in something bigger.

>>51527400

That Dream Warrior group was pretty neat, I hope they made it in.

>>51527226

You sound just like every other milennial who came into TTRPGs in the (mid) 2000's. If anything its such a tired opinion I'd ask you stop parroting it like everyone else.

>>51527574

Why would I want someone to write a plot for me when I can just write my own? An adventure path style thing wouldn't be bad (Mummy's is all right) every once in a while but I don't see the point of a plot beyond that.

>>51527496

That you regard it as one game and not several sharing some gameworld trappings is misleading yourself.

>>51527620
When you write a plot do you write the machinations of the entire world or your local setting? A global events cannon helps fill out the world if you don't want to populate an entire one yourself. It has no impact on your actual plots except as fluff to save you time.

>>51527620

I don't have the time (or want) to sit and write a huge over-arching plot, I want to focus on the small things, but I want a large background full of interesting things to fall back on

>>51527654

I guess I could transplant basically the plot of oWoD into nWoD, but it'd be a lot of puzzle-ing. The rules of nWoD are so much better, that's why I can't decide what to run (Vampoire).

>>51527681

Also, I feel that the clans of oWoD have more character, even if they are more simplistic. I just don't know... I just wish they kept more of the old in the new.

>>51527606

Maybe they're all saying that because it's truly how they feel, and they're not just "parrotting" it because they've never experienced the glory of rolling soak or something.

>>51527681
Even with the Translation guide Blood Potency and Generation just do not work well together. The OWoD games with elders being super powered monsters just doesn't port over to the more leveled NWoD rules.

>>51527699

I don't really mourn the loss of the weird ethnic racist nonsense VtM largely had, and like that you can actuallyuse VtR outside of Europe with it still making sense.

>>51527226
>I'm one of those icky thematic purists who yells at people for having too much fun and not enough personal horror anyway.
You can nail on words like yucky to that to try to make it seem cute but backseat dms are one of the great plague of storytellers

Why is this tripfag being allowed to parade around in the general, dictating the topic at hand?

>>51527485
>more depth than "the Camarilla are boring, the Anarchs are idiots, and the Sabbat are right about the mythology but are assholes."
Wow, a trivialization can't stand up to books of material. Color me surprised.

>>51527704

It doesn't need yo be repeated or acknowledged in a thread where nwod is all anyone talks about unless its Archpheres trolling.

>>51527720
Well, I'm not a huge fan of using vampires in place were European settlement wasn't very widespread, since both versions of the Kindred are much closer to the classic European bloodsucker than other similar monsters. Some of the clans are stereotypes, but who cares? It's not hard to play against it for most, except maybe the Giovanni.

>>51527730

There's talk of Fallen and Oblivion just up thread. Someone wrote a VtM monster manual for people to use and put it up on these threads. People talk about what gets brought up and that means being proactive about conversation.

I'm sorry someone's internet opinion bothers you, but that's no reason to tell someone to stop because of a problem that's easily rectified.

>>51527720

I give literally zero shits about 'racism', and I think the fear of stepping on any toes, real or imagined, have seriously hurt white wolfs and Onyx paths modern games.

>>51527799

Other people disagree.

>>51527808
Probably why we get so many side bars these days.

>>51527808
Good for them

>>51527808

Yes, of course? They are wrong though. Taking away all edges just leaves a boring, gray sphere, and that's basically what's happened.

>>51527808
>people
I hope you're not trying to include yourself here.

>>51527818

You can have whatever beef you do with provressivism, but Onyx Path has chosen to make that a pillar of their brand and it's given them a pretty devoted fanbase. Carving out a niche in the tabletop space that actively advertises itself as open to more diversity is a good thing in my eyes.

I wouldn't be playing these games if it wasn't for the politics that influence some of them. Changeling and Promethean would be much weaker without.

>>51527849
I don't remember side bars in Changeling telling me how to act IRL.

>>51527789
>I'm sorry someone's internet opinion bothers you
Are you seriously saying that to someone who was responding to 'People playing games how they like makes me reeeeeee' Atamajakki

>>51527808

>implying some trannies and fags are going to play these games in any great enough numbers to radically influence sales

What is worse is how a lot of the OP writers seem to basically be hikkikomoris with little or no experience socializing.

At this point im ready for Swede Dracula's offering because at least those fags dress up, go outside and interact with nerds face to face.

>>51527849
>it's given them a pretty devoted fanbase.
Shame it was in exchange for their bigger older devoted fanbase

>>51527644

If it has no impact on my actual plots, in my game, why should it be there and should it take up book space? How does it save me time in a setting that focuses more on the local?

>>51527654

Wouldn't that be what a local setting in a sourcebook would be for? There's usually enough backstory for them to fall back on. You don't really need an overarching plot for that.

Don't get me wrong, I don't have an issue with an overarching plot on principle, I just think it'd mess with what I think is cool about CofD.

>>51527849
I rather think that much of the fanbase is the result of old White Wolf, rather then any diversity quotas.

>>51527886
If the side bars were even accurate and not inane ideological virtue signalling they might not be so annoying.

>>51527849
Promethean has no politics. It is Pinocchio mixed with Frankenstein and has a strong humanist message like both books that inspired it, but that's it. It's not difficult to grasp.

>>51527886
can only become better than McFarland's political treaty that is Beast, or Hill's ranting