Warhammer Fantasy General

First for Vlad, who did nothing wrong, except for trusting Mannfred.

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>>51504444
Quads confirm.

>>51504444
Much like Hitler, Vlad did nothing wrong.

Can someone give me a cannon source for what is happening in Mordheim around the time of the storm of chaos? I can not seem to find anything.

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>>51504444

>>51504694
Nothing. Mordheim was purged by Magnus the Pious following the fall of the city after the warpsptone meteors hit and it became a hot-spot of conflicts and fighting, with warpstone flowing out of there, corrupting people.

Everything was burned and every building was razed. It's hinted somewhere that there's possibly still tunnels underneath, maybe caves, and the skaven probably have access, but the entire place is practically salted Earth and probably full of warpfuckery and undead, to the extent that anything "lives" there at all.

My personal image of it is a dead, blackened wasteland of rubble, covering the area where the city was.

>>51504285
>a Sigmar for ants

>>51504924
>Sigmar for ants
so a tyranid hive-mind?

>>51504761
The crater is probably still there.

I want to start a 500pts army, since I cannot afford another full army, so I have hard time picking between melee-oriented Dwarfs (no guns whatsoever), Tzeentch-themed Chaos Warriors, Empire or Lizardmen.
Which one one of these would be easier and more fun to run at 500 points?

>>51504444
You would have to be the biggest idiot ever to trust Mannfred.

>>51505038
or just naively believing others are as descent to you. good people are often blind to evil within others.

>>51505050
Nah. You can just tell by looking at Mannfred that you shouldn't trust him.

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>>51505069
to be honest, when he trusted Mannfred, Mannfred didn't look like bald shit.
Mannfred looked (and kinda was, afaik) kidna cool back then.

>>51505077
Never trust a man wearing hooker boots.

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>>51504285
>>51504924
>>51504942
Here's a Sigmar for you

>>51505111
That's better.

Does anyone have a picture comparing the size/height of "human-sized" figures (e.g. Elves, Empire Troops, etc.) to, say, Ogres, Kroxigors and/or other, larger models?

How big are monstrous infantry like, say, Ogres supposed to be compared to humans in the fluff anyway? Are they much bigger in the fluff than they are on the tabletop?

>>51505272
Also, how big are a Space Marine, Empire Troop and heaven forbid, a Sigmarine compared to each other, miniature/tabletop-wise?

Apologies in advance for even daring to mention something related to Age of Scrub, I was just curious about the size comparisons.

>>51505302
be advised, that "human-sized" is very broad definition. Free Company, for instance, are absolutely out of proportion, too large, while, say, Glade Guard, are like tall halflings.

>>51505324
Human sized is kind of a weird definition in real real life.

>>51505272
Ogres are about 10 feet tall.

>>51505324
I was thinking at the size of the average Empire Swordsman/Spearman/Halberdier.

>>51505393
What about Kroxigors and Rat Ogres? Same deal same banana?

>>51505406
Dunno about the former, but rat ogres are very unique. I think they're usually like 8-12 feet tall.

Filthy noob (in warhammer) crossboarder. I have this >>6157911 skeletons and lich king, I bought them to practice minis and for aesthetical reasons but talking with the lhs guy he showed me a bit of the game and some starter boxes and one huge fig that were pretty cool to have an army (1700 something points I think) because, well if I have them why not use them for what they were intended.
I asked in the scale model thread but I guess here is the right place to ask (if not I will fuck off elsewhere) about the army of skeletons, I wanna know if it's op, meh, shitter tier or okay to play or if it has some pita rules or something like that?
I can search and post the units I liked and we put in the army if it helps

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You know what the stormcasts lack?


skulls
you know what the Bloodbound lack?

things that aren't skulls

>>51505866
you contradict yourself

make up your mind - skulls or no skulls?

>>51505839
>>>/toy/6157911
>Embarrassing

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>>51505866
Hey buddy, I think you got the wrong thread, the Marines Look-alike Club is two blocks down.

>>51505028
>melee-oriented Dwarfs (no guns whatsoever)
Do you love being kited to death? Dwarf gunlines deserve the hate, but no-ranged dwarfs is blueballing yourself

>Tzeentch-themed Chaos Warriors, Empire or Lizardmen
All of them are good, viable options, you'll have to pick with personal preference and which one looks more interesting to paint

Beware tho, magic balance may be broken in that size

>>51506393
what about a few quarrelers? I really don't like using firearms in fantasy

>>51505839
>>51505875
There's no proper full-skeleton army, those are part of the Vampire Counts, their army is widely regarded as a strong one

>it has some pita rules or something like that?
You have no ranged combat options (besides magic), and your entire army will take huge casualities every turn if your general dies (Vampire Lords are some of the strongest in the game tho)

A recommendation, if they are not included (they should, those look like old boxes), use square bases for your army, so it will be playable with Warhammer Fantasy or Age of Sigmar (Warhammer's """replacement""", since Warhammer got axed)

>>51506510
they should aid a lot, considering it's 500 points, you should not face many monsters (making cannons and the like overkill)

As mentioned, pick an army you like, not the one that's most competitive, unless you are using Tomb Kings or Beastmen, balance doesn't need to be considered when picking an army, all of your picks are viable choices

Does anyone know where I can find any of the remaining battalion boxes that are out there? I know they're out of print, but they have the Empire knights and mortars I need. Ebay has proven a bit barren for army units in box.

Since 9th Age appears to be becoming more and more of its own thing, will it eventually get its own thread? or perhaps more appropriately, be moved to /awg/?

Granted, people are still free to play games in the WHFB setting using 9th Age rules, but (for Chaos at least) I am not sure if that will still easily be the case in the future as it is now, what with how the T9A team appears to be moving from "Four Marks, Four Gods" to "Seven Deadly Sins" which might probably also lead to the changing of rules for Chaos players.

>>51506746
dunno, does Pathfinder has separate threads from D&D? (legitimate question, I don't follow those)

>>51506809
Yes, easily spotted by their catgirls.

>>51506822
hm, seems superfluous to me, since both are the same thing (i know they'd disagree)

however, I believe T9A should stay in WHFB threads, since WHFB no longer has updates and T9A is more or less singleheartedly accepted as a successor.

I'm afraid once T9A really secures its place, with minis and big tournaments and stuff, people will be coming to T9A thread to discuss WHFB, not vice versa. would be a dark day for WHFB.

also, T9A has a pretty swell forum, I mostly use /whfbg/ to discusss T9A in relation to WHFB.

>>51506746
Why would they do something that is guaranteed to alienate even more people? They have no place doing such a thing, the only purpose of T9A is to make a more balanced Warhammer ruleset and motivate people to produce new models that work for Warhammer.

>>51506903
There's no diagreement to have, they are literally different systems with no shared setting. You're stating something objectively incorrect.

>>51506941
3.5ed, 5th ed and Pathfinder are more or less a same system with various bells and whistles to differentiate them.

D&D covers a whole lot of setting, so "no shared setting" is irrelevant. their main difference is different publishers, and while there are some people who care about that, they are faggots.

>>51506746
If 9th Age gets popular enough, of course. All you need to do is create a thread for it and there it is. You don't "get" threads, you make them, and they survive if they're active.

9th Age is pretty welcome here, at least in how it relates to Warhammer Fantasy, but if you think it's popular enough, create a thread for it, whether you make that from the fluff-point of Warhammer Fantasy or 9th Age itself, and feel free to mention it in here in case you want some people pulled over there.

The unfocused nature of this thread sometimes makes it hard for specific things to survive on it's own.

Another choice would be to create a dedicated WHFB/T9A thread, pulling on all the wargamers/tabletoppers.

>>51506941
Systems schmystems.

>>51507005
Sorry, wrong. This is like saying Celsius and Fahrenheit are the same thing because they both measure temperature.

>>51504924
>>51505111
Yeah, sorry about that, the last thread was on pg. 9 and I wasn't at home, so I just grabbed an image from Google.

>>51507035
not it's like saying a degree Celsius and a degree Kelvin is the same thing, because they are.

3.5 and PF differ less than 3.5 and 5

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So how do yall figure Bretonnian nobility treat bastards and great bastards?

>>51507085
they trade and sometimes skirmish with the former and the latter are normally far away, in the Vaults and the Karaks of the World's Edge.

...oh, you're talking about family members? no idea.

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>>51507110
That's going in the book!

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>>51505272
>How big are monstrous infantry like, say, Ogres supposed to be compared to humans in the fluff anyway?

W E W that's a tall order, no pun intended. WFRP2 lists the following height ranges for Humans, Dwarfs, Elves and Halfings (From shortest female to highest male), though:

Dwarfs: 129,5-157,5 cm.
Elves: 165-193 cm.
Halflings: 99-127 cm.
Humans: 157,5-188 cm.

As for Ogres? Ogre Bulls are described as standing 305-335 cm tall, with Ogre Sows being slightly smaller.

So yeah, apparently the tallest Halfling men are still shorter than 1,5m, while any Ogre, male or female, regularly pulls 3m.

>>51507085
About what you'd expect. Forge alliances, give them shitty jobs, or denies their existence.

>>51507085
I assume that bastards don't get treated as nobility or are popular with the other noble families should they inherit titles.

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>>51507402
In Bretonnia, you are considered noble if both your bloodlines are noble going back at least three generations, or by royal decree.

Note that if you are made into a noble in Bretonnia, your children will not be nobles. They will be peasants. The only way to somehow make a new noble bloodline is to actually engineer a situation where you end up with three generations of noble blood, or by having yourself, your children, and your grandchildren declared nobles, somehow.

Only then will your great-grandchildren be considered nobles upon birth.

Unless I'm mistaken, the Knights of the Grail book also points out that this has never happened.

Anyone wanna help me build a list for a 6th ed game?

My buddy and I played years ago so we dusted off the old books and models.

I have:

>Lords & Heroes
Blood Dragon on foot w/ HW and Shield
Blood Dragon on foot w/ add. HW
Blood Dragon w/ HW mounted on barded Nightmare
Wight w/ HW & shield mounted on Barded Nightmare
Wight on foot w/ great weapon
Necromancer on foot

>Core
20 skeles with HW & shield, full command
20 skeles with spear and shield, full command
20 zombies, full command
5 Bat Swarms

>Special
5 black knights w/ full command
5 black knights w/ full command
3 Spirit Hosts

Rare
>Banshee

Yeah so if anyone wants to take a crack on a good 1,000-1,500 point list I'd love to hear it!

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What is the relationship like between Nurgle and VC?

In 40k Nurgle has zombies and undead, but in Fantasy they don't.

>>51507559
Nurgle hates undead
Undead are like "who the fuck he is?"

>>51507580

Why does Nurgle hate the undead when he uses them in 40k?

>>51507606
Chaos undead are different from necromantic undead.

>>51507606
because this is not 40k

>>51507606
Nurgle represents the fear of death, the mortal need to stay alive and keep things the same. Those with long life spans, elves and Slann, and those immune to disease, undead, have no relationship with Nurgle. While vampires do have a fear of 'true death' they are few compared to the armies they raise. In short, necromancy is anathema to Chaos, Nurgle in particular.

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>>51507465
Correction.

Five generations.

Fucking. Five.

>>51507606
>Why does Nurgle hate the undead when he uses them in 40k?
Because as much as Warhammer Fantasy became increasingly inconsistent and nonsensical, finally taking a great big plunge with the End Times, and the Chaos Gods becoming increasingly one-dimensional and flanderized, it still wasn't as bad as in 40k, who suffered more from this far earlier on.

Nurgle is the closest thing to a general God of Life in the Chaos Pantheon, and he offers you perpetual living, albeit in a perpetual state of decay. It is not undeath, just not the life you wanted.

For reference, unless 40k has become even more unhinged than before, Plague Zombies are not undead. They're just undead-like, and the victims of a nurglesque disease. Generally speaking, if we stick to the basic themes and concepts, Chaos doesn't do undead. Real undeads don't do emotions or original thought, and the chaos gods absolutely do not get a boner out of them. In many ways, true undead are anti-chaos, in a similar way to the non-shitty necrons (as opposed to newcrons) in 40k.

>>51507645
>Those with long life spans, elves and Slann, and those immune to disease, undead, have no relationship with Nurgle.

I agree with everything except this. The Slann is a bit of an exception, because they are pretty much innoculated to Chaos, but anything with a long life-span is likely more afraid than anyone else to actually lose it, unless they've actually entered the state where they don't care anymore and slowly wither away (which is a very real problem to the elves of Ulthuan).

And as you describe, Nurgle is more than just disease, so even those that would somehow be immune to disease could still have a relationship to Nurgle. Technically anything that has something that they do not want to lose will have at least a miniscule relationship with Nurgle.

That said, completely agree aside from that and I'm probably just nit-picking.

>>51504285
>For all intents and purposes, it's not the same universe
Stop fucking lying to yourselves already, it's just sad. Just say that there are a few gongards in these specific threads on this Patagonian astral projection enthusiast forum who can't handle their man baby rage about a discontinued game they can easily still play and can't have anything not suiting their specific tastes coming into their safe space.
Your head canon and tastes and perception of what warhammer is "supposed" to be have absolutely no bearing on the actual published canon, no matter how many times you scream "AoS shill!" until you're blabbering incoherently and foaming at the mouth.

You don't want to talk about endtimes, don't. No one is forcing you to. Almost no one brings it up anyways. But being so fucking delusional that you think you get to be the thought police and control a universe you don't even put any creative input to is just pathetic and speaks volumes as to the "fans" gw was looking to get rid of in the first place

>inb4 shill

>>51507827
>Chaos doesn't do undead.

Except it does.
One of Nurgle's most famous Champions was Valnir the Reaper, who was undead.

>>51507861
I mention Slann since they are effectively immortal, so there is no fear of growing old and dying. It's why humans make such great necromancers. A story from the VC 6th edition book has a Necrarch vampire remarking that his human apprentice exceeded his expectations, likely because he had to succeed before he succumbs to old age. Elves also perceive time differently in addition to having long lifespans. They just don't have the same fear since if they fritter away a century or two they have a millenia to do whatever else they want.

>>51507942
When the vast majority of these Generals despises ET and AoS it clearly isn't 'one guy'

>>51507606
The undead don't have souls that can be reached directly by the chaos gods, so they all hate the undead. Nurgle hates them most because they're resistant to not just most of his diseases, but also the accompanying despair and fear of death.

A plague zombie created by a nurgle disease is reanimated through nurgle magic, and the soul has likely been given over completely to him. A true undead zombie has no soul, and is animated by magic bound fully on the material plane.

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I made a quirky Imperial armour generator: http://orteil.dashnet.org/randomgen/?gen=http://pastebin.com/raw/iBWgaCt3

It's intended for wfrp, but you could use it to jazz up your Empire army if you don't mind a bit of free-hand.

>>51507942
They won't pay you per word, redshirt.

>>51507085
As far as I understand it, as long as they're bastards with noble parents, they're still noble and are entitled to certain privileges, though they'll probably have to make their own way in the world, or quietly be sent to some relative's castle. The spawn of a noble and a peasant would be stuck as an unusually handsome peasant, because now their nobility only goes back one generation because their other parent was not noble.

>>51506530
Thanks, yeah they come with the square ones. I have to look into it properly but if it was a shit army then I would just stick to painting what I felt like it, but they seem okay

>>51507942
Get out, shill. This has been explained to you repeatedly. We have a preference for Warhammer Fantasy, you enjoy End Times/Age of Smegmar. That's fine. We can enjoy them in different rooms. It's not stranger than that.

End Times and Age of Smegmar are excluded because they are not in the same setting, and thus to avoid confusion when discussing mutually exclusive aspects of the universes. Talk of both End Times and Age of Smegmar still crops up tangentially, every once in a while, and nobody has a problem understanding this other than you.

Practically nobody is upset over this but you. Stop being so autistic over the whole thing, anon. Whatever they're paying you isn't worth your dignity.

>>51507606
40k undead are closer to the modern "infection zombies" type: practically living beings turned into mindless ravening hordes; fantasy undead are the proper type instead and undeath, while an anathema to the order of life, it's a kind of order by itself, a soulless one at it, something the chaos gods abhor.

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I'm not sure what edition or game I'll actually be playing once I get my army painted up, so would it be a safe bet to base an armylist off of 8th Edition? I'd like to be able to safely switch to earlier editions, or 9th Age, or whatever ends up being used whereever I end up playing.

>>51507971
>One of Nurgle's most famous Champions was Valnir the Reaper, who was undead.
As far as I understand it, Valnir the Reaper wasn't really undead, but was resurrected and reanimated by Nurgle (or some aspect or daemon of Nurgle), and returned to life. This may very well seem like semantics in more ways than one, but it's an important distinction in a meta sense.

That being said, Valnir the Reaper was also (as far as I understand) an extremely early character, so he might've been created before the Chaos Gods really crystallized in their themes and natures.

>>51507977
>>51508086
>>51508429
Just report him for breaking Global #3 and ignore him. Eventually he goes away. He comes in and throws a tantrum every once in a while.

>>51508524
Depends on who you're playing with. If you can find a group or hobby store, ask which edition they play.

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>>51508524
8th is the closer to 9th, all in all, except for lords and heroes, while the composition rules change between editions, you can safely translate an armylist to one edition to another with little problems.


on pixelated news: battle maps editor coming to total warhammer confirmed.

>>51507645
> necromancy is anathema to Chaos
Which becames even more clear when you realise Big E is basically a lich and he's most known miracles are necromancy

>>51508524
I'm not really a WFB player, but it might help if you tell us what Army you were going to do. It seems to me that in general, you should be fine, though. Might want to double-check certain special characters and warmachines.

All the army books and editions should be available on the mega: https://mega.nz/#F!pFgm0RKR!J06C1gVYcjzNGsF8YNLsjQ!JVw20QKC

>>51508532
>As far as I understand it, Valnir the Reaper wasn't really undead

No, he was undead.
Undead are just dark magic, which is literally what Chaos is. Undead are a natural occurrence in the Chaos Wastes.

>>51508854
>No, he was undead.
Source on that? I looked him up and it just said pretty much what I said.

>Undead are just dark magic
All magic is Chaos, this doesn't mean that actual undead are Nurglesque or something Chaos directs with any degree of will. Actually, being dead in many ways insulates you from most influences of Chaos.

>>51509227
I seem to recall that dead bodies gathers dhar. This is part of the reason why Strigoi and ghouls degenerate so much into beasts after sustaining on dead bodies.

>>51509227
>Source on that?

Champions of Chaos.

>All magic is Chaos

Correct.

>this doesn't mean that actual undead are Nurglesque or something Chaos directs with any degree of will.

Except they can and do.

>>51509378
Yeah, dhar amasses with decay and with the stagnancy of the winds of magic. So if the winds of magic can be considered the elements of creation in many ways, everything has a bit of it in them, and when they start dying or decaying, becoming stagnant, they sorta rot and meld together, forming Dhar.

It's part of why Dhar is so common at places of great slaughter or sadness (along with Shyish, obviously, but Shyish is more the passing itself).

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>>51509396
>Champions of Chaos.
Since you're too sure of yourself or too lazy to double-check your claims, I did it for you.

So, yeah, not a real undead, but precisely what I found elsewhere; he's resurrected and reanimated by Nurgle. Explicitly. Repeatedly.

>>51509705
>So, yeah, not a real undead

>Died
>Brought back to life as a rotten corpse
>Is not undead

>>51509790
see
>>51508532
>Valnir the Reaper wasn't really undead, but was resurrected and reanimated by Nurgle (or some aspect or daemon of Nurgle), and returned to life. This may very well seem like semantics in more ways than one, but it's an important distinction in a meta sense.

After having this distinction explained, it was still claimed that he was undead. Which he isn't. His soul is all there. He's explicitly neither living nor dead. He is explicitly brought back to live as a Champion of Chaos, by Nurgle. He's practically a semi-daemonic entity that inhabits his old body. He's even got Regeneration for crying out loud! He's practically teeming with life.

He's basically the poster-child of nurglesque warpfuckery and how it differs from necromancy. This is something you'd blast with Hysh, not force to move on with Shyish. This is Daemonology, not Necromancy. Again, the distinction may seem largely as semantics, but in the metaphysics of the setting itself, it's an important difference, because Nurgle isn't a god of death and the realms of chaos gets exactly zilch out of undeads.

>>51509427
It's also why vampires drink blood. They get those fresh winds of magic through the blood. Strigoi consumes rotten blood and Necrarchs seldom drink blood and becomes a node that attracts dhar.

>>51509916
> His soul is all there.

Plenty of undead have souls.
Some are in fact nothing but souls.

>He's explicitly neither living nor dead.

Yeah, almost like he's some sort of undead.

>He's practically teeming with life.

So are most zombies. Valnir's mission is still to kill the living.

>This is something you'd blast with Hysh, not force to move on with Shyish.

Hysh is effective against undead.

>This is Daemonology, not Necromancy.

It's dark magic.

>Nurgle isn't a god of death

But he is. He's the eternal cycle of life and death. It's absolutely not a coincidence that many of his followers carry scythes

>>51509790
He's not a corpse walking around but a revived mortal.
The former is walking around despite being clearly dead, the latter stops being dead because his god finds it funny.

>>51510099
>He's not a corpse walking around but a revived mortal.

>Clearly stated that he is not alive.

>>51510049
Hysh is also used against daemons.

>>51510185
Yeah, it's almost like it's effective against dark magic or something.

>>51510185
in wfrp2 hysh is used against daemons and shyish against undead

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>>51510049
>Hysh is effective against undead.
Only insofar it is effective against anything. Hysh deals primarily with daemons; Shyish deals primarily with death.

>It's dark magic.
You seem to be under the mistaken assumption that all dark magic is the same. It is not.

>But he is.
No, he's not a god of death at all.

>He's the eternal cycle of life and death.
No, the passing, the change of state from living to dead as well as from nothing to something, birth, is Tzeentch. Tzeentch is the god of passings, thresholds, movement from one state to another, and, fundamentally, change.

Nurgle is the exact opposite of that, seeking to preserve and stagnate, to protect and hold onto everything, forever. He's the one that comes to protect you in your despair and fears of loss. And Nurgle has nothing to do with cycles.

Arguably, the only cycle that exists is Chaos as a whole, the four Chaos Gods in concert. Tzeentch isn't cycles either, but would attempt to always break every cycle, to fundamentally change beyond the confines of any cycle, whereas Nurgle would want no cycle to occur at all, but to simply let it stand still and stagnate, for fear of loss and change.

>It's absolutely not a coincidence that many of his followers carry scythes
No, because Nurgle's season is autumn and the harvest, the stocking up and feasts, the slow decay of everything.

The scythe and sickle isn't for the extremely modernist interpretation of death. The setting was originally conceived largely by historians and people interested in history as well as fantasy enthusiasts, and this is just another aspect of that.

I'm not sure why, but it's a really common misconception that Nurgle is a god of the dead, or a god of death, rather than a god of the dying (along with a dozen or so other epithets), and it's a bit sad that it's become so ingrained that I think that it became part of GW:s flanderization of the Chaos Gods, almost making the idea self-perpetuating.

>>51510570
It's likely people confuse the 'fear of death' with 'god of death', thinking him like Morr, a god whose realm is where the dead go, whereas Nurgle plays on your fear of dying.

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>>51510676
Exactly. I could even go so far as to say that Nurgle is a god of the DYING, but not of the dead or of death itself. And he'll keep you dying forever, if you would but ask for his protection. This need not be the end. Come and play with us. Forever.

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>>51510570
>Only insofar it is effective against anything.

No.

>You seem to be under the mistaken assumption that all dark magic is the same. It is not.

it's dark magic plain and simple. Undead are a naturally occurring phenomena in dark magic heavy areas, as are daemons.

>No, he's not a god of death at all.

But he is. Hence the heavy use of reaper imagery.

>The scythe and sickle isn't for the extremely modernist interpretation of death.

Except it very much is as it's viewed through our very modernist eyes.
The Grim Reaper imagery was popularised during the black death, a notorious plague. Death and plague are very much interconnected in the human psyche, so while Nurgle is not limited to being a death god he very much bears that aspect.

>>51510049
>Plenty of undead have souls.
>Some are in fact nothing but souls.

I'm not exactly sure about this but I think none of the undead have souls, yes even the ghosts.

A living person is composed of 7 elements and what keeps all the ethreal alive is not soul but personality and individuality

>>51510878
The scythe is only to invoke fear, nothing more. Nurgle can't be a god of death because death is a naturally progression of life. Nurgle wants complete stagnation, nothing changes. It's why his arch rival is Tzeentch, a god that changes for the sake of it. You seem to be confusing 'god of death' with god that uses death imagery. The whole point of falling under his sway is because you DON'T want to pass on, you don't want the cycle of life and death to continue.

Morr is a god of death because he represents the natural progression, that life can't and shouldn't be eternal, that when you pass on you enter his realm to dream for eternity. It's why he hates necromancers so much, because not only do they stop the cycle they also rip others from their deserved rest.

>>51510944
Vampires souls are locked off from the Warp, they are the only beings truly free of Chaos.


Everything else is a construct made of various bits and animated by magic.

>>51510944
>I think none of the undead have souls

Incorrect. Even skeletons are described as having a flicker of one.

>>51510944
They have souls, but not wills. Only a few very strong undead still have the willpower to control themselves, and those will have personality as a side effect, but personality and individuality is the effect, not the cause.

>>51511101
>The scythe is only to invoke fear, nothing more.

No, the scythe is used because it has connotations of death.

>Nurgle can't be a god of death because death is a naturally progression of life. Nurgle wants complete stagnation, nothing changes.

Nurgle is the cycle of life and death. That same unbroken cycle is just as stagnant as anything else.

>It's why his arch rival is Tzeentch, a god that changes for the sake of it.

Tzeentch is his arch rival because Tzeentch is the god of hope and ambition while Nurgle is the god of fear and despair. The Chaos Gods are aligned along emotions.

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>>51511151
It's a little more complicated than that. Pic related.

Skeletons are described as being Kha, Sekhem, Khaibit and a fragment of Ka (ego). Zombies lack the ego part.

>>51510878
>No.
Yes. Please, go ahead and read the sections on the Winds of Magic in Realms of Sorcery. I tire of spoon-feeding you.

>it's dark magic plain and simple.
No. All dark magic is not the same.

>Undead are a naturally occurring phenomena in dark magic heavy areas
This is true, but as explained earlier, irrelevant to the discussion.

>as are daemons.
This is false. Daemons don't spontaneously manifest in the real world under normal circumstances. Undead do, in areas with large amounts of Dhar.

>But he is.
He isn't. You repeating yourself without adding anything doesn't change this fact. We've gone through what Nurgle is and the way he is what he is.

>Hence the heavy use of reaper imagery.
Already addressed. You're confusing reaper imagery with being the god of death. It's not only a tremendous leap of logic, but it's also wrong.

>Except it very much is as it's viewed through our very modernist eyes.
The setting was not made by plebs like you. You came much later and started making assumptions without stopping to see what was going on.

>so while Nurgle is not limited to being a death god he very much bears that aspect.
Nurgle was never, ever, the God of Death. Like I said earlier, arguably dying, but he was never a god of the dead or undead, nor a god of death or the passing into death; nor does Chaos get anything out of the undead, making them incredibly uninterested in creating any.

If you had anything other than "Nuh-uh", you would probably have pointed at it by now.

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>>51511329
Whoops, wrong page.

>>51511260
>No, the scythe is used because it has connotations of death.

No. Again. Harvest. Reaping. Fall. Autumn. Decay. Is any of this getting through to you, or are you entirely resistant to new information?

>Nurgle is the cycle of life and death.
There's literally nothing that ever suggested this. Nurgle is not birth nor death. These very concepts represent ends and beginnings, insurmountable thresholds of change. Nurgle never ever represented any kind of cycle, but rather a pool of stagnant water.

>Tzeentch is his arch rival because Tzeentch is the god of hope and ambition while Nurgle is the god of fear and despair. The Chaos Gods are aligned along emotions.
That's a ridiculously simplistic way of looking at it. It's not just "emotions", it's core concepts, themes, thoughts and ideas. The most fundamental core of Nurgle is Unchanging Decay and Perpetuity. The most fundamental core of Tzeentch is Change and Progression.

Everything they consist of, everything that makes these gargantuan, infinite beings what they are, with all they entail and all the associated warpstuff is pitted against eachother.

>>51511329
>>51511349
The mistake is forgivable, but goddamn, man, give me page 23!

>>51511451
or better yet, give us the whole book

>>51511451
Libre Necris should be in the OP links. Mannfred is a scared bitch when it comes to Nagash. Rightfully so.

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>>51511451
>>51511465
The whole book's in the OP somewhere I'm sure.

>>51511341
>Yes. Please, go ahead and read the sections on the Winds of Magic in Realms of Sorcery

Please read the image I posted you pleb.

>No. All dark magic is not the same.

It is.

>This is true, but as explained earlier, irrelevant to the discussion.

Except it's not irrelevant at all.

>This is false. Daemons don't spontaneously manifest in the real world under normal circumstances. Undead do, in areas with large amounts of Dhar.

Except daemons can and do manifest with high quantities of magic. They can raom freely in the Chaos wastes because the magic is so high there, not coincidentally that same magic allows for undead to occur naturally.

>He isn't. You repeating yourself

Because no one has actually refuted what I've been saying.

>Already addressed. You're confusing reaper imagery with being the god of death.

I'm not. Nurgle is not the god of death, because Chaos Gods are founded on emotions rather than concepts like death. However death feeds despair and fear which is what Nurgle truly is so along with his connection to plague he is connected to death.

>The setting was not made by plebs like you.

You're the only pleb here if you believe modern writers writing for a modern audience did not intend for that modern audience to parse imagery based on their modern sensibilities.

>nor does Chaos get anything out of the undead, making them incredibly uninterested in creating any.

Undead Champions of Chaos have been a thing forever you idiot.

>>51511329
What would the aethyric echo of a plant be like?

>>51511424
>No. Again. Harvest. Reaping. Fall. Autumn. Decay.

Yes, all associated with - wait for it - death!

>There's literally nothing that ever suggested this. Nurgle is not birth nor death. These very concepts represent ends and beginnings, insurmountable thresholds of change.

Except they aren't changes, they're things that have been happening over and over since forever. An inescapable cycle. You live, you die, and life springs anew from your rotting corpse.

>That's a ridiculously simplistic way of looking at it.

And yet it's the correct way. You can strip away everything else but it leaves those primal emotions. Chaos is created by mental energies of mortals and these primal feelings are more powerful than any higher concept.

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>>51511506
>The whole book's in the OP somewhere I'm sure.
Yeah, it's in the MEGA, in the /background/ folder.

>>51511518
>Please read the image I posted you pleb.
I did.

>It is.
It's not.

See how well that works? This is the level we're at now, because there's nothing more to explain to you.

>Except it's not irrelevant at all.
Except it is, and it has been explained to you why that is.

>Except daemons can and do manifest with high quantities of magic.
You're comparing the literal Chaos Wastes, where there is a supermassive hole straight into the Realms of Chaos, and from which all the Winds of Magic flow out onto the world, to a graveyard.

That's the level you're at. You're practically comparing the sun to a Duracell battery.

>Because no one has actually refuted what I've been saying.
Literally everything you've brought up has been curbstomped by having it explained to you in near-excruciating detail.

>Nurgle is not the god of death
Out of that entire sentence, this is the only one that is remotely correct. Congratulations. Even a broken clock is right twice per day.

>You're the only pleb here if you believe modern writers writing for a modern audience did not intend for that modern audience to parse imagery based on their modern sensibilities.
Haha, what? Are you seriously thinking that 70's and 80's fantasy supernerds with degrees in history were modern writers that was consciously writing for a modern audience? Shit, son, they were barely even writers. Just when we didn't think you could get any more basic.

>Undead Champions of Chaos have been a thing forever you idiot.
When this discussion started, I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, and I was genuinely interested in hearing if there used to be aspects of Chaos that I simply didn't know about - I have read far from every scrap of fluff, especially in the earliest editions - but as I said earlier, if you had anything at all to substantiate anything, you would've provided it by now.

>>51511612
>Yes, all associated with - wait for it - death!
Not by necessity, no. You want death, you want winter.

>Chaos is created by mental energies of mortals and these primal feelings are more powerful than any higher concept.
That's not just emotions, though. That's all concepts, ideas, thoughts. It's the colour blue and the feeling of tears on your cheeks. Trying to nonsensically reduce it to "just emotions" and come up with post-hoc rationalizations based on that isn't just wrong, it's retarded.

Is it possible to run a dungeon crawler in WFRP2, what with all the lethality of the system?

>>51511826
lure of the liche lord

>>51511779
>I did.

Then can you see that Hysh is effective against the undead as well as daemons?

>It's not.

It is.

>You're comparing the literal Chaos Wastes, where there is a supermassive hole straight into the Realms of Chaos, and from which all the Winds of Magic flow out onto the world, to a graveyard.

No, I'm not. Daemons clearly require more magic to sustain them than the undead do but that doesn't mean they can't "naturally" with magic like undead.

>Literally everything you've brought up has been curbstomped by having it explained to you in near-excruciating detail.

No, people throw out their fanfiction at me and expect me to swallow it for some reason.

>Out of that entire sentence, this is the only one that is remotely correct.

Except it's all correct.

>Haha, what? Are you seriously thinking that 70's and 80's fantasy supernerds with degrees in history were modern writers that was consciously writing for a modern audience?

Yes, do you think they weren't?

>Shit, son, they were barely even writers.

All the more reason for them to write for a modern audience, it would take some skill as a writer to convincingly write for a pre-modern audience.

.When this discussion started, I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, and I was genuinely interested in hearing if there used to be aspects of Chaos that I simply didn't know about - I have read far from every scrap of fluff, especially in the earliest editions

Oh, so you've read every scrap of fluff but conveniently missed out on Realm of Chaos. Right.

>>51511824
>Not by necessity, no.

Yes. To the general audience these terms are associated with death.

>You want death, you want winter.

No. Autumn fits death as well. It's when leaves and fruit fall and rot.

>That's not just emotions, though.

But it is at the core. The primal emotions are the core and power of the Chaos Gds, the rest is just dressing.

>>51511908
I dream of running that as part of a long term campaign.


So. Many. Deaths.

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>>51511612
>Yes, all associated with - wait for it - death!
Much like for medieval man, autumn and harvest-season is not associated with death, and neither is death part of Nurgles portfolio. It's a time of merriment and plenty. This ties into both Nurgle's jovial and carefree nature as well as his infinite garden of plenty. Note that that is Garden of Nurgle, not Graveyard of Nurgle.

I've only managed to find one reference to any aspect of Nurgle ever being associated with death, and even that was "decay & death" as a local god. If there's any other, I haven't seen it.

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>>51512081
>autumn and harvest-season is not associated with death, and neither is death part of Nurgles portfolio. It's a time of merriment and plenty.

Early autumn yes. As autumn wears on, no.

>This ties into both Nurgle's jovial and carefree nature as well as his infinite garden of plenty. Note that that is Garden of Nurgle, not Graveyard of Nurgle.

As I've said, it's the cycle of life, death and life from death. Part of that cycle is death, which is represented in the reaper and plague motifs.

>>51511826
Yes, but it should be made clear that the system is deadly and that one or more or all of the players could very well die, especially if they're not used to the system or aren't paranoid enough to know what to do.

Lure of the Liche Lord (as mentioned) is an adventure that is practically a dungeon crawler, and a guide for further dungeon-crawling.

If you want to play WFRP2 as a dungeon crawler, I would recommend the books of Karak Azgal (because it helps with creating potential dwarf dungeons, etc.), Renegade Crowns (because Border Princes is a good place to be for this) and the adventure Lure of the Liche Lord (which would be perfect to play in a campaign starting in the Border Princes, and continue from there).

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>>51511349
>Ab

do lizardmen have Ab?

>>51511977
At this point, there's really no reason to continue the conversation, because everyone but you have pretty much seen that you don't have a leg to stand on in anything. You're either trolling or autistic, but at this point, I don't think we care which it is.

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>>51511977
>It's when leaves and fruit fall and rot.
Still confusing dying with death, I see.

>>51512221
I agree with this post

>>51511329
But...Morr's realm canonically exists.

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>>51512245
>You're either trolling or autistic

Nope, I'm just right and you don't know half of what you think you do.

>>51512274
Things rot when they are dead.

>>51512347
the fun of warhammer is that there is no clear "truth" and there are diferent points of view that the characters have as much as the fans
and fuck the end times for fucking that up

>>51511537
Green.

Seriously though, what is described appears to be the same as Witch-Sight, and the aethyric echo of a plant would entail seeing Ghyran, the Wind of Life. As you become increasingly unnatural or infused with magic, you'll end up seeing nothing but the winds, as the real world fades away.

You know in games when you can see heat signatures, or when you used, I dunno, Sense Alignment in some game, or seeing auras? That's it, except that's all you see, as everything that exists is also infused with the winds of magic to some degree.

But it can probably become incredibly disorienting, especially when something upsets the winds. If you're operating at that level, it could probably end up like having smoke blown in your face.

>>51512366
Trees she'd these things in autumn. You're not dead because you shed skin flakes.

>>51512347
The book is written by Mannfred von Carstein, so take it up with him, I guess.

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>>51512437
>Mannlet

>>51512431
>Trees she'd these things in autumn. You're not dead because you shed skin flakes.


That doesn't change the connotations. Just because trees do not literally die does not mean it does not give the impression of death.

>>51512366
>life_and_death.png
That is literally the first legitimate reference you've made that substantiates anything that you've said whatsoever, and it's pretty damn weak, if it's the best that you've got. Nobody ever questioned that Nurgle takes delight in the cycle of life & death. It would be an odd Chaos God that didn't. Where's it from?

>I'm just right
Not so far. it's getting kinda sad.

>Things rot when they are dead.
Mhm. Stellar observation. The dead, death and dying are still not the same things, though.

>>51512347
>But...Morr's realm canonically exists.
Of course it does, simply by being mentioned as being fiction, the realm paradoxically exists. The exact nature of Morr's Realm, however, is entirely debatable

>>51512493
>impression of death
Impression of death is not death. Now we're back in that little thing we covered earlier, in how the Chaos Champion, Valnir, isn't really undead just because it looks like a walking corpse.

Tons of things allude to the act of dying with Nurgle. He's practically got just as many walking corpses around as he's got bloated fatlings. This doesn't make him a God of Death.

Like has been said, this might seem mostly like semantics, as with the resurrected Valnir the Reaper, but in a metaphysical sense, the distinction is important, because daemonology isn't necromancy, and undeads don't do anything for the Chaos Gods. You'll never see an army of skeletons and vampires risen by Nurglites.

Nurgle can shove you back into your body and raise you again because he thinks it's funny or because he wants to reward you, but he'll never raise a soulless husk.

>>51510944
Vampires have their soul so secured to their body that they are basically a walking vortex of magic, Tomb Kings souls are joined with their body and Wights also possesses a soul, it's what makes them more powerful than regular skeletons.

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>>51511518
>Undead Champions of Chaos have been a thing forever you idiot.
[citation needed]

>>51512513
>That is literally the first legitimate reference you've made that substantiates anything that you've said whatsoever

No, I've made plenty. You're just legitimately stupid and don't know what you're talking about.

>Not so far.

Yes so far.

>The dead, death and dying are still not the same things, though.

They are all irrevocably intertwined.

Maybe this children's cartoon can explain things for you.
>https://youtu.be/bW7PlTaawfQ?t=56s

>>51512637
>Impression of death is not death.

It is in symbolism.

>but in a metaphysical sense, the distinction is important

Not at all. In both cases a corpse is partially restored life, existing in between life and death.

>>51512671
Realm of Chaos.

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>>51512671

>>51512825
not the other anon, but this pic specifically says the skeleton was a chaos champion before death, are there cases of undead falling to chaos post mortem in realm of chaos?

>>51512873
I can't remember any off the top of my head.
Chaos Champions can get skeletons, ghouls and zombies as followers. But they can also get orcs, goblins, skaven, giant frogs and vampires, so read into that what you will.

>>51512873
In older fluff, probably. Not in post 6th. Chaos Gods have nothing to offer the dead.

>>51512970
>Not in post 6th.

Blood Dragons and Isabella fell in the End Times.

>>51512994
fuck the end times

>>51512994
>>ET
lel
Let's not start with that nonsense.

>>51512970
Don't lie. Vampire talents in Total War has a talent where they make pacts with the Chaos Gods to increase their magic stats.

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>C-chaos and undead don't mix guys

Fucking plebs, perhaps Age of Shitmar is more your speed?

>>51512994
>End Times
here's your reglamentary (you), you can leave happy now

>>51513066
Chaos has nothing to offer the Tomb Kings or the Vampire Counts themselves; they could offer a lot to mortal would-be Necromancers, or perhaps Wights.

>>51513172
You

see

>>51513041

You fuck.

>>51513172
>Chaos has nothing to offer the Tomb Kings or the Vampire Counts themselves

Except power or anything else they cannot acquire easily since they're not reality breaking Gods.

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>>51513041
>Bringing Total War into a lore discussion

>>51513226
They stated repeatedly that Total War is faithful to the setting.

>>51513212
All it takes is time. Unless a vampire or Tomb King comes down with 'sword to the face' they will have all eternity to gain what it is they want. Humans, the Lions share of converts, don't have this luxury.

>>51513294
>All it takes is time.

Not really though. Time can't buy you most things.

>>51513262
if by (((they))) you mean Games Workshop their opinion clearly doesnt matter after The End Times and Age of Sigmar, they dont know their own setting

>>51513331
Nope, your opinion is what doesn't matter.

>>51512994
This is Warhammer, not Age of Sigmar.

>>51513351
It does in a community discussion.

>>51513262
Total Warhammer is good, but there's so many mistakes and deliberate changes that it's probably not worth holding up as evidence for anything.

>>51513226
>farmer
>likes dwarfs
the memes, jack

>>51513262
It might be trying to be, but it's having to adapt itself to the Total War format.

>>51513066
Strawman. Necromancers obviously make use of magic, and thus, Chaos. This is not the same thing as Chaos doing this themselves. Unlesss you want to argue that every magic-user ever is directly serving or is part of chaos, in which case you're retarded.

>>51513041
Desperate enough to call upon a game mechanic in a fluff discussion? Apparently.

>>51513754
>This is not the same thing as Chaos doing this themselves.

They can grant Necromantic powers so it stands to reason they can.

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>>51512245
You're playing chess with a pigeon. No matter how good you are, he's still going to shit all over everything and strut around like he won.

Even though canon in actual books (in this case the Liber Nurgle and Liber Necris) are proving him wrong, he can't admit it.

>>51513834
Except chaotic undeath is fundamentally different from true necromancy, which is based on the severance of the soul from the winds proper. Because they are disconnected, it is why zombies/skellies etc need to constantly have raw magic pumped into them, and why wraiths/ghosts/vamps ect, have to feed off life.

All this talk of cycles and chaos reminds me of a comic... Wrong god, but shut up and enjoy storytime.

Cycles of Chaos 1/11

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>>51513938
Cycles of Chaos 2/11

>>51513938
>xcept chaotic undeath is fundamentally different from true necromancy

Nope. The Chaos Gods gave Kemmler vast Necromantic powers.

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>>51513956
Cycles of Chaos 3/11

>>51512671
Litteraly Krell, and the Lichemeister got his power back thanks to the gods of Chaos.

>>51513964
No, they just restored his memories. He was always vastly powerful, he just lost his mind

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>>51513964
>>51513985
You mean the retconned fluff? Its literally less canon than halforcs.

Cycles of Chaos 4/11

>>51513964
Are you dumb? It says they restored his power. He literally has the 'Blasted Mind' Insanity from WFRP.

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>>51514009
Cycles of Chaos 5/11

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>>51514034
Cycles of Chaos 6/11

>>51514009
>You mean the retconned fluff?
If it was ever retconned, it was retconned post 6th edition and thus still valid.

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>>51514049
Cycles of Chaos 7/11

>>51504285
>for all intents and purposes

It's for all intensive purposes you stupid mog

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>>51514053
>If it was ever retconned, it was retconned post 6th edition and thus still valid.

Ok, I have honestly never heard anyone make this distinction before, unless you are saying it as a personal opinion.

Cycles of Chaos 8/11

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>>51514100
Cycles of Chaos 9/11

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>>51514111
Cycles of Chaos 10/11

>>51514100
>unless you are saying it as a personal opinion.
Well, it's not really since the only canon Warhammer timeline left is WHRP's, which is in the wake of Storm of Chaos.

So as far as this thread is concerned, the Lichemeister got his powers back from the chaos gods and Krell is an undead chaos champion.

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>>51514133
You are welcome to your headcanon, but it is indeed just that, no matter how much you wish to squawk about it.

Cycles of Chaos END

>>51514185
Why do you still come to this thread to post AoS-tier stuff ? Can't you just stay in your general ?

>>51514185
>chaos
>stagnant repetition of things
WH40K chaos gods are shit.

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>>51514211
...I know these are bad troll attempts, but you made me pause. 6/10. Passing. You earned a Karl.

>>51514007
>No, they just restored his memories.

No, it says they restored his power, not his memories.

>>51514009
>You mean the retconned fluff?

No, it was canon from 4e to ET.

>>51514079
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

"intensive purposes"

>>51514325
You know an argument has gone to shit when Gropey shows up to mention it.

>>51513754
Kemmler literally made a pact with the Chaos gods for power.

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>>51514373
>No, it was canon from 4e to ET.
Source please.

>>51514438
Awww....

>>51514471
And a Chaos witch invoked the Gods to resurrect the Red Duke.

>>51514541
>Source please.

4e >>51513066

>>51514438
Clownfag has a good knowledge of the old lore, and always contributes good shit. These faggots are just pushing their head cannons.

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>>51514549
>And a Chaos witch invoked the Gods to resurrect the Red Duke.

As in the Red Duke of Mousillon? I could have sworn he was a vampire. Source?

Unless you are referring to a blurb about peasant stories of the Red Duke.

>>51514578
No, that was retconned.

>>51514578
That was retconned you fag.

>>51514617
The Red Duck is a vampire and always has been as far as I know.

>>51514617
>No, that was retconned.
>>51514627
>That was retconned you fag.

No it wasn't.

>>51514549
The fuck you smoking? The Red Duke is a blood dragon Vampire.

>>51514578
>4e
Except not. That got retconed twice.

>>51514617
>As in the Red Duke of Mousillon? I could have sworn he was a vampire.

Yes and he was. But he died and the got raised.

>>51514657
>The fuck you smoking? The Red Duke is a blood dragon Vampire.

What's your point?

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>>51514692
Chaos doesn't effect vampires. That is the very point of vampires. Vampires have their own set of rules and rituals for returning after being destroyed.

>>51514656
Liber Necris, 8thEd vamp book, Nagash book and End times say you're wrong.

>>51514692
>What's your point?

Vampires cannot into chaos, you illiterate cuck

>>51514742
>That is the very point of vampires.

No, the point of vampires was immortality.

>>51514760
>Vampires cannot into chaos, you illiterate cuck

Chaos can into necromancy, so what's your point?

>>51514742
No, that's rubbish. You make it sound like vampires are immune to Chaos magic. Which they are not.

>>51514760
>Liber Necris, 8thEd vamp book, Nagash book and End times say you're wrong.

No they don't. 8e Vampire books says the give him powers. End Times has Kemmler siding with Chaos because they are his true masters.

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>>51514819
The vampiric state is the antithesis of chaos, in that it is indeed purely removed from the cyclic, changing nature of chaos as a whole. This is a repeated and defining feature of them in the fluff.

>>51514881
That doesn't mean that they are immune to Chaos magic since vampires absorb magic.

>>51514881
>This is a repeated and defining feature of them in the fluff.

No it's not. Read through any VC army book or novel and it won't even be brought up. It's a minor tidbit from one book that was not acknowledged in the wider setting.

>>51514918
Are you blind or retarded?

>>51514969
You're the retard if you think that's a "defining" trait.

>>51515002
I would say the origin of the faction is pretty damn defining.

>>51515076
Okay, except the origin had nothing to do with that and everything to do with a magic immortality potion some Egyptian royals made.

>>51515110
Yes. Correct. Which removed then from the cycle. You are aware of Nagash's curse, yes?

Go fuck a cactus.

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>>51514049
Can anyone translate the runes on his armor? I know it's possible.

>>51515132
>Yes. Correct. Which removed then from the cycle.

A minor tidbit, unmentioned in the wider setting.
Not defining at all. It's like saying Phraz-Etar is defining to Chaos.

>>51514549
I'm confused on that, because it seems like there's some older lore on that, and then perhaps WFRP lore on that that spins a different tale. What bothers me most is that the dates of his death and resurrection seem to change.

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>>51515149
>Can anyone translate the runes on his armor? I know it's possible.

Anything to get away from the autism exploding in this thread. I fear its gibberish though.

The right pauldron seems to be

?
H
F
?
Dh
O
?
Gh(?)

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>>51515502

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>>51505111

I thought Sigmar would return in the Empire's darkest hour... he has forsaken us...

>>51515502
I'm probably using the wrong lexicon, but I can't find true Dark Tongue offhand.

>>51515641
He did, he just lost is all.

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>>51507110

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>>51515659
Same-diff as what the beast tongue is.

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>>51515670

What a useless cunt, we waited 2,500 years and he lost. What the fuck had he been doing in all that time. You'd think he'd have done some press-ups or something.

Fuck it, time to pray to Gods that actually listen.

>>51515641
Sigmar is a god, not a man. A presence in the Realm of Chaos. His physical return is impossible, since the man that was Sigmar died a long time ago. His avatars, however...I maintain that Valten is still alive, doing vigilante stuff but doing his best not to reveal who he is.

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I asked last thread but didn't get a response.

Has anyone here read or own a copy of 'The World of Warhammer: The Official Encyclopaedia' (1998)?

>>51515979
You might have to buy a copy of it. I can't find a scan.

>>51516150

I just wanted to know how detailed it was. I think it's about 200 pages. If it's good I wouldn't mind owning a physical copy.

>>51514185
Thanks for the comic!

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We often talk about the best model in Warhammer but what's the worst?

> Hard Mode: no original Nagash or End Times stuff.

My entry.

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>>51516658
By the time you're done painting it you're dead!

>>51516691

I actually like this but yeah I couldn't be arsed to paint it.

Spray it white and ink it, that's as good as it's getting... and then it breaks.

>>51516658
Jabberwock.

>>51505028

I'd aim for 750-1000 points personally. All battleforces can be fun at that level (although imbalanced power-levels, of course) .

Be smart with buying decisions, too.

>>51516745
Not sure how your meant to paint and transport a lot of the newer models

>>51516691
Not sure how your meant to paint and transport the big new 'centrepiece' models


Not a fan of any of them either, remind me to much of video game fantasy models

>>51512223

Their mortal bodies and morality suggests so. I guess it depends on the species.

Slann, definitely, Kroxigor not so much.

>>51507484

Are you playing with a Blood Dragon Army List?

Seems like you can get a good game of 1000 done but the extra 500pts might be difficult.

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Does anyone even still play vermintide on PC anymore?

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>>51515169
>A minor tidbit, unmentioned in the wider setting.
...no. Are you.. are you completely fucking insane? Being removed from the cycle is what makes them vampires. The entire point was to become insulated against the influences of Chaos.

Seriously, what in the everliving fucks?

>>51508593
hm, that's actually mighty cool.

>>51515671
wow, i didn't think video quality was so good back when Hillary was young

>>51518858
nah, i'm going for bare minimum, period. once I start considering anything bigger, I may start thinking "Why not add another 50pts? Or an option to have different lists?" and BAM! I get another 4000 points army, empty valet and gotta somehow free another shelf to house it.
500 pts. period.

>>51520280
chaosfag gonna fag, mate
just ignore them
whenever someone tries to say "But chaos is..." or "But chaos can...", just tune them out and ignore.

>>51514471
>>51514549

Not sure I see the point here. What mortal spellcasters use magic for doesn't really concern chaos as long as they hold up their end of whatever bargain was struck, or as long as whatever manipulative scheme is being played comes to fruition.

>>51513066
>Heinrich Kemmler

>>51519983
occasionally

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>>51516658
The original Strigoi miniatures with their kitchen knife fingers were pretty fucking bad and a huge disapointment when compared to the artwork in the rulebook.

>>51520888
>generic comment insulting your parents and suggesting you go back to AoS thread for not liking older minis
>generic homophobic slur

Lets say I want to learn a ton about the Warhammer Fantasy setting for a campaign. What books should I read? I only have superficial knowledge of the setting.

>>51516658
Minotaurs
High Elf Archers and Spearmen
chimp Skaven

original Nagash is pretty swell, in fact. I'd field him.

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>>51520943
WFRP2e books. All of them. Obviously stick to what material you might actually use, but there is no better, more authoritative source of what is now Orthodox Warhammer. 6e army books are a close second.

>>51519983
I play it about once a week with my friends.

>>51519983
Daily, usually.

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>>51520924
The fuck are you on about? Strigoi minis a shit. The only good one comes with the Terrorgheist/ugly AF Zombie Dragon.

>>51521034
oh, i wasn't serious, i was just doing an impression

should've added "inb4", i guess

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>About to basecoat 200+ Dark Elf models

Wish me luck lads. It's going to be a long road ahead.

>>51507827
hey, what is this image from?

>>51521923
Knights of the Grail, WFRP 2e

>>51521165
Do a before and after shot of everything together.

So, I bought Warhammer Quest. What am I in for?

>>51516658

>skaven gutter runners
>old dragonogre

>>51520378
The guy posted proof and acted like gentleman. You guys are children in comparison.

>>51522443
A couple hours of play, not much more.

>>51523668
I already expected that.

If a Magic Missile does Strength 4 hits, does it inflict the -1 Armour Save modifier or does magic ignore armour?

>>51524089
It does the -1 armour save anything that ignores armour is explicitly stated as ignoring armour

>>51524108
thanks lad

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>>51515979
My dad has a copy, but I highly doubt he'd let me fuck the binding to scan it.

>>51516181
Its a little dated in some places, but is a well of obscure and clarifying info.

>>51516294
Any time


>>51517133
You better mean jabberslythe, because the classic jabberwocks are nostalgic goodness.

>>51520280
Some people dont read the fluff. Ignore headcanon fags.

>>51522601
Retconned info. Also, nice selfpost.

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>>51505866
>lack of skulls
>Stormcast eternals have a guy with a fucking coffin for a staff

>>51524420
>Retconned info. Also, nice selfpost.

Nope, you didn't show it was retconned. He presented new and old lore. You on the other hand continued to act like a cunt.

See >>51514829

No apologize and leave, cancer.

>>51524757
Now*

Seriously, why do you guys tolerate cunty namefags here? Why do you guys don't acknowledge when you are wrong? Someone has to police these threads.

>>51524757
>>51524791
Fluff established later, overrules previous fluff. If you're the "nothing after 6ed matters" kinda fag, it doesn't matter. You're obviously dont read, but multiple Army books, Night's Dark Masters, Libris Necris will explain everything. Find aomeone to help you with the big words.

Im quite happy here. You're stuck with me. Been here for a decade, and plan to be here longer.

Now, run along.

>>51525054
Nope, you lied. You said Kemmeler fluff was retconned. It wasn't. The VC army book of 8th ED and End Times Nagash (Latest fluff ever for WHFB) reaffirms Kemmler's power and allegiance belonged to Chaos.

You lied about that. Hence why you are cancerous namefag that should leave.

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Do Dwarfs only hate dragons? I know their lore only involves fighting them, but Dwarfs use an awful lot of dragon iconography in their art. They don't exactly put trolls or Skaven on the crown of their supreme leader after all.

How lore breaking would using a model of a Dwarf riding a dragon be?

>>51525222
>Do Dwarfs only hate dragons?
I thought they hate everyone.

>>51524527
I still don't get why Nagash is the only other god who gets representation in Sigmar's Ultramarines.

Shouldn't he have given some Alarielle crowns? Or Tyrion sneer faces? Teclis pope hats? Given some dragontaur bodies for Malekith? Made some go topless for Morathi? Had some ceremonially smeared in feces for Gorkamorka?

>>51525222
dragons are close allies of the elves, just saying

>>51525257
They grumble about everyone, including each other. They don't necessarily hate.

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>>51525194
Kemmler is not a vampire you goddamn twat. Kemler is (technically) mortal, swayed by chaos.

You seem to be missing a huge point, but its no use trying to explain it to you. Go back to eating crayons

>>51525222
I think it could be respect for a mighty (maybe even honourable) enemy

>>51525280
I followed the reply chain about Kemmeler. You kept his old fluff was retconned. Are you gonna own up to being wrong or what?

>>51525324
I will when I am.

>>51525264
Because unlike the others Nagash was Sigmar's friend. That's why his betrayal stung the most.

The Undying King and the God King are reflections of each other and seek to preserve Order (and Mankind) in their own way.

>>51525353
You are, objectively. So that's that.

>>51525324
His chaos history is invalidated by the modern interpretation of necromancy He's just a necromancer whos being affected by chaos, but no one would confuse him for a chaos worshiper.

>>51525382
They basically gave a shooter his gun back and said 'go nuts'. In the long term necromancy would have to be eliminated.

>>51525374
Except that I am not. Latest fluff makes his old fluff as impossible as half orcs.

>>51525382
>>51525401
Exactly.

>>51525361
That's the shittest thing I've heard about AoS


Worse than "lel Malekith was king after all let's all be friends again"

>>51525361
Then why don't the Sigmarines show symbols of Grungni and Grimnir? Or Morathi, who stayed with him when the others all pissed off? They're all Sigmar plus the one guy in the group who is Nagash.

Are there whrp books for elves and dwarves?
I am just interested in the fluff.

>>51525404
Except Kemmeler's fluff stayed consistent from nearly his first appearance. He is a Chaos follower and you saying it was retconned is wrong.

>>51525382
>His chaos history is invalidated

His history like I said remained consistent and carried over word for word.

and as the 8th VC army (the latest book that talks about Necromancy) book shows all you need to be use Necromancy is Dark Magic which is essentially Chaos in its pure unbroken up form. Dark Magic is abundant in areas where Chaos i strong as well as graveyards (See "Places of Death"). So how dare you say modern?

>>51525458
Malekith being king was ET, which is like the shit blend of Fantasy and AoS and sort of a third thing as a result.
Them being "friends" sort of makes sense with the Curse of Aenarion literally affecting all Dark Elves since Mally cuckolded the race for thousands of years, then it being lifted. Too bad the retcon of him being legitimate king was so garbage it is unforgivable and makes ET: Khaine beyond salvage.

But yeah. Nagash, who has never been portrayed as likeable or even not a complete cunt at any point in the lore being friendly with anyone on a personal level is such tripe.

Not to mention Nagash isn't and has never been a king.

>>51525490
Grudgelore for Dwarfs (not Dwarves, never Dwarves). It was Gav Thorpe's only good non-army book fluff.

Not sure about Elves.

>>51525522
You're pretty salty, anon. Your husbandu is not consistent, and thats that.

>>51525547
>Not to mention Nagash isn't and has never been a king.

He ripped the kingdom from his brother and married his underage waifu.

Anyways, Nagash is friendly with his layman Arkan ("DIE WELL, MY SERVANT") and Neferata whom he calls dear, lovely, and lady.

>>51525547
Nagash was king for years in Nehekhara before he was ousted by the other kings. Though he was still a cunt that wanted to make a graveyard of the entire world.

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>>51525572
Kemmeler is consistent which is why your drivel about "modern new canon" is stupid.

And fir the record he is not my husbadu. That title belongs to some else.

>>51525599
>>51525600

Illegitimate.

He broke Nehekharan protocol for succession. So he was never a true king.

>>51525642
All who can dispute his claim are long dead or have bowed before him. So the issue is moot.

>>51525361
>Nagash and Sigmar
>friends

That sounds like some pretty shitty writing.

>>51525642
He broke the law but the other kings still paid him homage until they couldn't stand his atrocities and injustices. He is remembered as a usurper, but still a king. They recognized his authority until they revolted.

>>51525684
It's AoS, are you surprised?

>>51525684
They share a lot of thing in common like their eternal hatred for Archaon.

>>51525697
Not really. I checked out the Flesh-Eater Court book. It has some pretty interesting and cool ideas that would even have worked in WHFB, but the actual quality of the writing is pretty fucking awful. The names is probably the most cringeworthy part of it as well.

Fortunally I'm not invested in the setting at all.

>>51525716
Sure. In WHFB Nagash gave Sigmar a permanent injury and Sigmar killed the shit out of Nagash. Nothing but love there.

Is this only wargames or can I ask something for the RPG?
My brother wants to run a campaign for me and a friend, we randomly rolled our characters and I rolled a dwarf and he rolled an elf, how can we make this work, do we have to hate each other?
We are not that lore savvy.

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>>51525624
Im sorry that you're in denial.

Also, your husbanduru a shit.

>>51525773
They fought side by side in the End Times. Later Sigmar saved Nagash from his imprisonment in Shyish and then they fought together as allies/friends to make the mortal realms liveable for mankind.

Sigmar is not a hateful person. One moment he could be your enemy, the other he would be drinking meed with you. Sigmar is uniter and brother to all men.

>>51525819
This is for anything Warhammer Fantasy.