MTG LEGACY GENERAL

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Nothing says fun like a turn one Dark Ritual Entomb Exhume. UB reanimator may be a better deck, but it's just not as fun to pilot. Dark Ritual needs more love in legacy.

>>51501613
So spicy no one's posting. I don't have a legacy deck, but playing on cockatrice against Enchantress with 4 maindeck Reverent Silences is basically cheating.

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Post cards that need more love.

>>51502277
>not unmasking first

>>51502277
What's the best dark rit art? I really should get them to look all the same one of these days...

>>51505457
volrath has the best flavor text but the art isnt that good

>>51505457
Masques

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>>51505457
Don't listen to >>51505462 Tempest is the shit.

>>51505565
Let's see
>dark rit
>Mox Diamond
>Lotus Petal
>Ancient Tomb
>City of Traitors

Tempest was a hella fast mana block.

>>51505457
Beep beep, unpopular opinion coming through. Best Dark Rit art is from Mirage.

>>51504524
What deck plays 4 reverent silence main? False Cure?

>>51505705
Voodoo Dark Rit is only good if you combo it with LED.

I have a new DDFT video up and this one is about me fucking up. Roast me. I still haven't gotten a better microphone setup
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ku7N-mzD_g

>>51506710
Shouldn't the title read from mistakes?
Keep the videos coming.

>>51507118
Eh you're probably right. I also have part one of a two part bit on doomsday piles ready to go so i'll probably try to get that edited up today or tomorrow.

>>51505457
I personally use masques but if money wasn't a consideration I would definitely use beta rits. I really like the og art

>>51505462
>>51505508
>>51505565
>>51505705
>>51508885

Right now I have a tempest, a revised, and 2 DD copies.

>>51505689
And Alluren to boot

What a set.

>>51505689
I think Tempest block is one of the best blocks in Magic. Lots of powerful cards, but no way to really abuse them (as in, no Stroke of Genius, etc to break parity for fast mana). The cards have a lot of flavor to them and tell a story. The draft environment is really fun and interesting, once you accept that you're playing with suboptimal cards.

Some cards were definitely a problem. Capsize, Rolling Thunder, and Forbid come to mind. But it's still a set that's fun to draft. Hell, Tempest Remastered shows that!

I've been playing Food Chain with 3 Leovolds lately. It's been such a power boost, it's almost like day and night.

You're still playing a bunch of expensive spells and clunky creatures, but your backup plan is so much stronger now.

>>51509625
Leovold is really good for lots of fair decks but I still hate that motherfucker

I just bought Legacy Lands, any good reads on deck suggestions? I'm running the usual R/G list but have 4 ghost quarters instead of 4 ports.

>>51505705
Yeah, false cure. I don't know what the deck needs to propel it into the meta. I doubt they'll ever print a better false cure as the newer cards that do similar things don't work with Kavu Predator.

Also, i'm enjoying the videos. Keep it up.

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>>51505457

This

>>51505457
Can't beat the OG art.

What do you guys think of Imperial Bomberman with Colourless Swarm and Walking Ballista?

I'm trying to find the perfect balance of spiciness and viability before I commit too much to a some sort of meme deck

>>51505457
Rebecca Guay every day

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>>51505457
>>51515312
Truly the darkest ritual.

>>51516237
Bomberman is a pretty spicy meatball. Post a list? Walking Ballista seems like a good addition.

>>51516237
Oh I like the ballista with the Bomberman combo!

Still not sure if that deck is playable though.

>>51516968
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/ballista-bomber/

It's basically the same as the primer on The Source, but I'm playing around with the idea of dropping spellbombs for fast mana, maybe adding black for some super spicy shitbrew

Currently not in paper because I don't own recruiters so it's just being playtested on Xmage against miracles and the delver flavour of the month

>>51517209
Looks fun. How's it testing? I feel like it would just get crushed by combo. Hope of Ghirapur is your only hope, except racing. Maybe play a few copies of Silence or Orim's Chant? or 1 or 2 Recruiter targets that help vs combo?

>>51506710
Few criticism, keep with you a paper or something to keep you on track on thoughts and try not to say "um" too much. Makes it easier to watch.

Keep doing videos tho. Can't ever have enough legacy content.

>>51506710
Looks good, I've been meaning to try playing DDFT online but it's been kinda intimidating. These vids help a lot.

>>51516237
>Commit too much to a some sort of meme deck
This is how I feel right now. If I wanted to I could slowly start buying paper, but I don't wanna commit thousands of dollars to some off-meta brew that usually cheeses wins on the back of Chalice.

I prefer spiciness in my food to my decks, primarily because I just don't get the chance to do much experimenting. Ideas I've had for fighting Miracles with Storm, but haven't had the chance/nads to try:
—Slaughter Games
—Assemble the Legion
—Havoc Festival
—Mystic Remora

I 'boarded Blazing Archon in Dredge to fight Eldrazi. Worked like a charm, and it's still in my sideboard. Same thing with Force of Will for on-the-draw games. Slow-dredging actually works great when you Force their Deathrite Shaman.

>>51505457

Gotta say Fifth Edition. Urza's Saga is a close second, though my favorite copy of the card is German Revised.

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BUG players, post your favorite reaction to turn 2 Hymn.

Bonus points: turn 2 Hymn into turn 3 Hymn.

Pic related.

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>>51519025

>that feeling when you're the one playing Pox

>>51516237

If you want to commit to a spicy meme deck, there's always that Red Artifact Reanimator deck a guy posted awhile back. Looked like fun, so I saved it the list.

3 Daretti, Scrap Savant
4 Inkwell Leviathan
4 Lotus Petal
4 Darksteel Citadel
2 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
4 Trash for Treasure
4 Faithless Looting
4 Goblin Welder
2 Lightning Greaves
4 Cathartic Reunion
3 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Ichor Wellspring

>>51519282

Oh, also some thoughts that were thrown out about it last time.

Thoughts:
Anger - Gives Welders Haste
Defense Grid - Protection
Pyroblast - Counter Blue decks
Smokestack, Thorn of Amethyst, Tangle Wire - Stax

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Why are german FBB cards so damn funny?
If I ever want to play with cards that were printed in revised, it's one day going to be german FBB.
Hell, the wording is super wonky on pic related.

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>>51501613
Copter forever.
Forever copter.
Mimic, mimic, smasher, amen.

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>>51519025
>Mfw you top deck hymn the turn before I would have gone off

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>>51505457
>>51516237
Best ritual for sure

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wish board has that spicy pulverize but otherwise feeling like I could cut void snare but could any storm players give me something to replace it with?

I had the idea to instead move bayou to side for games 2 and 3 and use another fetch in the main but my meta has a minimum of 2-3 miracles players at a time so revelatent silence is awesome

>>51524690
I've been running Flame Slash instead of void snare in my wish board. I realized that what I was using that slot for was to get rid of creatures, and flame slash does it permanently. Could also use chain lightning since it could pop a planeswalker and kills nearly every relevant creature, but it might come back at you.

>>51524822
Thanks I'll try both out and see what I like better

>>51517656
It's absolutely horrible to play on xmage, so I haven't done much playtesting, but so far I've found it's good against miracles,delver,lands,and various midrange decks but it basically folds to good combo decks.

it's also great against abrupt decay, but terrible against stp.

I think the mainboard could benefit from some silences and an aethersworn canonist, maybe a containment priest in the side for reanimator and S&S.


The problem with decks like this and high tide, is that you need to playtest them a lot to get a feel for the deck, but you can't playtest online because playing infinite combos online sucks. If I just blindly drop like 1000 on a recruiter playset and decide I don't like the deck, I'm stuck with that shit for a while.

>>51524690
meltdown is practically better than pulverize, as you'd want to cast pulverize on the same turn you're going to go off.

Having artifact hate to wish for is a waste of a slot unless your meta is really full of chalice/thorn and thorns are not as popular in eldrazi anymore, at least not in a full playset.

I'd advice against removing void snare, as it's just a nice G1 catch-all with a wish and it's even more important for you as you don't run CoV's in your side.

Also, even reverent silence is in the same box as pulverize/meltdown. If 4 decays are not enough for you to fight miracles - keep it, otherwise I'd drop it too.

No offense but I think you're still new to the deck, seeing as you need pulverize/reverent silence to play around common bad match-ups besides the decays, which is why I'd advice to grab a stock SB list and accept a bit more losses to get better overall.

Another tip: Run 2x cabal rituals, so you could IT for a 2nd one (just drop one of the chrome mox'es for it).

Otherwise - all is fine.

>>51524822
You run a fucking flame slash as a wish target in DDFT? What 4 toughness creature you need to get rid of permanently?

Do you not value your SB slots this much?

Void snare at least hits any leyline + random shit like iona on black, besides other permanent hate.

>>51526465
Ddft can ignore leyline. If reanimator gets iona out, you need to have wish already in hand to have a chance of wishing for void snare and still winning. And even if you do bounce iona, you need to win right away or they'll reanimate something else, so you need 2 business spells and the resources to cast all that crap. Basically, if reanimator gets a fatty on board you're already dead. Other hate can be ground through with piles involving decay and maniac. I played with void snare for a long time. I found it lacking. On the rare occasion I wanted to wish for it, it was to stop some creature massacre couldn't kill. Flame slash gets rid of it permanently. Honestly it's the 15th slot and I've waffled on it a lot. It's been void snare, meltdown, flame slash, an extra discard spell, an extra massacre. Right now it's flame slash primarily because of leovold, which is a big problem for ddft.

>>51524690
Wow, shocks in an ad nauseam list... how many games have you lost because of that? I'm actually curious

>>51526372
Yeah I am new to storm. Only really played dredge for the past 2 years so advice is always helpful

What's the consensus on xanthan swarm? I've seen it run from 4 ofs to 0 and would like an explanation

>>51526846
a couple against delver but considering how new I am to the deck I was most likely going to lose either way

>>51524690
Actually I just noticed you don't have a discard spell in your sideboard. I'd squeeze that in if you can.

>>51526867
Xantid swarm is good against decks with countermagic, but few creatures or removal. They are decent against miracles, infect, stone blade, etc. but bad against delver decks. Some people like them, some don't. Plus you can always sac them for a cabal therapy flashback

>>51526820
>DDFT can ignore leyline
No shit, I play the deck too - I know that you can win through leyline easily.

However, black leyline still fucks with your grave and white leyline still fucks with your discard, I'd much rather have an answer to those + random shit and all the same creatures that the super narrow creature-only removal for R has.

Plus I'd prefer not to be forced to win through a maniac/emrakul if I don't have to or run EtW again.

If it works for you - run it, but it's beyond narrow in my eyes and snare is already pushing on being narrow as it is to begin with.

>>51526867
Great against anything that doesn't run bolts and similar removal, as they'd side out StP,etc against TES normally. Pretty useless against rest.

Generally, it dropped out of favor for many people lately, simply because everyone who played ANT/TES sided some, so people got used to them and they're not as good as they used to be against a lot of blue match-ups.

The fact that discard became much more popular hurts it too.

Shit's super cheap tho - so you can always try running some to see if you like it yourself or not and how well it works in your local meta.

Wouldn't bring it to a big event in a storm-based deck myself though.

>>51520459
I speak a little German and I picked up a German Land Tax. The German language is just awkward when you try to put it into a card game. For example, instead of shuffle, this Land Tax says "Mix your library thoroughly", and that Lord of Atlantis says your merfolk have "an islandwalk"

>>51527112
You don't need an answer to either leyline though. Neither really does anything relevant to DDFT, and the main deck is equipped to handle most other random crap. I'm not sure what you mean by "forced to win though a maniac" since it's there for the purpose of letting you ignore certain types of storm hate. But i don't like arguing with fellow DDFT players. What's your list look like? I'm always on the hunt for spice.

>>51527679
That's why I said snare is already narrow as it is.

Yes, lab man is there for that very reason + easier past the turn piles than double DD or in the past CoV ones, but at the same time lab man has it's own risks, so I simply never default to it unless I absolutely must, it also has to do with how I approach to using my discards.

My list isn't anything special, besides an extra fetch in comparison to stock lists and a badlands instead of another volcanic:

9 Fetches
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Badlands
1 Tropical Island
2 Island
1 Swamp

4 DR
4 LED
1 Petal
1 Rain of Filth

4 SDT
4 Ponder
4 BS
4 GP

4 Duress
3 Therapy
1 Decay

3 DD
3 BW

1 IU
1 Lab man
1 Chromatic Sphere

SB changes depending on which shop I play at, but most things are pretty stock too, though I'm a fan of needle and deed when facing heavy miracles metas.

>>51527990
I don't like the chromatic sphere, I play the 4th burning wish over it, but otherwise our lists are pretty similar. I like 17 lands with 9 fetches also. I cut rain of filth for the 2nd decay in the main too.

>>51528137
I'd never cut rain, though I fully understand why some people dislike sphere and don't run it.

Fearless dredge or sideboard dredge?

>>51529117
15 Islands in the sb.

>>51528349
Yeah it was a tough choice to cut. I really wanted a second decay but I don't like running only 3 wishes or 16 lands, so it basickly came down to cutting a discard spell, an LED or the 5th ritual. I haven't missed the 5th ritual.

>>51531361
I'd rather cut a LED than a rain honestly.

3 LED builds existed with dig and cruise around to compensate for a bit of lost speed, while rain simply opens piles that are otherwise impossible. Same reason why we still run that 1 petal.

Personally though I really do not miss 4th wish, because even if I opt to use 1st wish for something other than DD off my side, I'll either going to have DD already with it, have 2nd wish for DD or get to DD before I get to 2nd wish for it. Then again, I don't run EtW because after I went through dig/cruise period and opted to 3 wishes after the bans I just found myself practically never going for or wanting to go for EtW.

2nd decay however can be very important if your meta is very hateful and seeing as you don't miss the rain, I guess it's better to have overall better chances G1 against miracles and stompy.

Talking of rain and leovold, I should look back into throwing a karakas back into my SB.

>play reanimator
>friend proxies death and taxes "because I was doing too well and dragging everyone else down at fnm"

Alright, how do I get around this bullshit? I'm getting pretty tired of never being able to cast shit and having Karakas bounce almost everything I own

>>51536204
You play BR and turn 1 them. Griselbrand draws 14 and you reanimate Sire of Insanity and Tidespout Tyrant, Grave Titan/Inkwell Leviathan in the postboard games.

>>51536253
The amount of times I've actually been able to go off successfully turn 1 is somewhat low

So I just have to get lucky?

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>>51519025
>mfw I see a BUG player

>>51536204
Call a judge on him for using proxies.

>>51536442
Judges won't do anything.

They say they want to uphold the spirit of fnm, to which they won't ban anyone for using proxies unless it's standard

>>51536655
Then git gud and learn to sideboard. There's a ton of hate to side against DnT + you should be running counters/discard as it is.

>>51536893
Don't some reanimator decks run unmask main board?

>>51527196
It actually says "Everything Merfolk gains Islandmarch and +1/+1 as long as this card is in play." Landwalking abilities are now called Landtarnung, which is landcamouflage. It's as wonky as the old english wording on some cards, but one step fruther.

>>51536299
You can take aggressive mulligans all the way to five. 4 Unmasks and 4 Seizes nab Thalia Surgical Containment Priest, Surgical is too late if you're on the play w/ Annex. The deck is basically a perfect split between fatties, ways to bin them, mana, animation and disruption so you must be doing something wrong if your critical turn isn't 1.5. Sideboard Decay is also a thing.

>>51536442
Just entomb your non legendary creatures

>>51536204
Proxy up whatever shitpile destroys D&T, and tech you "friend" why petty arms races are a bad idea.

>>51536655
>Judges won't do anything.
If it's a sanctioned event, report that judge.

>>51537662
He's not reporting shit.

I can guarantee that his most expensive cards are chinaman and his friend knows that for sure and que the proxy deck. There is no way someone who has to complain he can't do shit against DnT with a deck like that isn't brand new and clueless.

Nobody brand new buys into Legacy unless it's full-on budget, otherwise people at least play-test the field with a borrowed deck until they get all their shit in one place.

This whole scenario is fucking strange - "my tier 2 deck is too strong for everyone, so my friend picked up a fake tier 1 deck and now I can't answer him".

I've been to 3rd world countries who have a fucking single Legacy playgroup per entire nation and even those places have at least half the field made of tier 1 decks.

>>51501613
>Ux omnitell Mythic level rarity

what are you on about?

>>51536204

Put Dread of Night in the sideboard, Entomb non-legendary Reanimator targets like Tidespout Titan.

I run Pox and was getting overwhelmed by how Death and Taxes could use Aether Vial to just keep spitting out more creatures than I had answers, until someone suggested Dread of Night. Now I never lose to it after sideboarding.

>>51520470
What do you even crew with it? Mimic when you have no other plays?

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>>51519025
>mfw they discard my dredgers

>>51539580
>Playing vs Dredge
>Get a T2 Ensnaring Bridge out
>They keep flashing back Therapy
>Hand is empty
>They reread Bridge
:/

Which deck can i get for 240 tix ir less?

>>51536204
pithing needles

reanimate doomwake giant then animate dead something else

or side in Massacre if you're on the draw? idk

>>51541745
>ancient grudge
>swing for 30
>???

>>51542950
I don't know what list you're playing, but I don't think Dredge was Grudge for game one. On the note though, I've been playing Padeem, Consul of Innovation as a 1 of maindeck and it's been great. When he sticks he reads "your board has protection from Abrupt Decay" and usually a free draw. That's part of the draw towards this deck for me, I get to play all this jank stuff.

>>51543699
Yeah not in game 1 sure but that shit's over on turn 1 with LED+Breakthrough.

>>51520470
How do you find only two wastelands?

>>51523312
muh nigga.

Dredge or enchantress
To durdle or to be hated
That's the question

Is affinity Viable in Legacy?

Also has anyone here tried Colorless 12-Post?

>>51548838
Have seen affinity to win decks-to-beat, it's viable. Remember to play 4 voids.

>>51543713
Unless don't swing turn 1 lethal and they play bridge.

>>51537516
What do you mean? Arms race is the best idea.

>>51548460

Be a Dark Knight. There is no other option.

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>When you buy a box of eternal masters and none of your friends want to draft

>>51550912
What anime?

I played third with TES at a monthly legacy fnm at my flgs and won a 20 euro gift card.
My question is what I should buy with it. I could get a playset 4th edition FBB japanese Dark Rituals or a few foil cards like Dark Petition, Cabal Rituals in case I want to build ANT, Duress, etc. Those japanese Rituals are pretty tempting.

>>51550912
Really? I would kill, even if it's not always value it's still not a bad draft set. U/ B elves is fun with Deathrite, UG is fun with Shardless, that one UG flyer.

>>51555600
I would dabble with the Japanese rituals if I were you.

>>51555600
Nip Ritual seem like the best call, there will always be more foil Dark Petitions but they'll never print more 4th Ed. cards.

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>>51555600
BB rits breh. Get em while there still around.

>>51561841
that's some pretty cardboard

>>51550912
>tfw i pulled 450$ worth of cards from my eternal masters and never got to draft with it because my friends were too obsessed with commander

>>51560199
>>51560674
>>51561841
I went ahead and got the jap Rituals along with a foil Petition and ftv Cabal Rituals. The Cabal Rituals aren't actually that bad but I took them since they were pretty cheap.

>>51564247

Gotta confess I prefer the German FBB Dark Rits and the pilgrim-hat Cabal Rits, but I like a mix of different arts, so I'm trying to run at least two arts of everything I can.

So speaking of spicy stuff, I'm thinking of trying Reanimator with only two Griselbrands and a full set of Daze, Faithless Looting, and Force of Will.

How #YOLO would that be?

Does anyone have the link to ddft guy's videos? I finally have some time to watch them.

>>51564247
>ftv cabal rituals

ew

>>51568079
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCD0Os6qvXicEZl6gJ_xPXGw

>>51567518
why do you need looting in a UB reanimator list? You already have careful study

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Alright niggers, here's my shitpile. Finally back into Legacy after forever. I downgraded my manabase from fetches/Bayou to Blooming Marsh and Llanowar Wastes. The CIPT potential and the life loss made zero difference tonight, but I had 2 opponents board in Submerge against me, so I think I'm going to keep it this way.

I'm using Expedition Maps instead of Into the North, but I continue to see zero Blood Moon locally I may switch back.
My sideboard feels fucked up, I really just want a 30 card sideboard with this deck. Anyone have any spicy ideas for a heavy Blue meta? Faced 4 Delver decks tonight.

>>51569165
carpet of flowers

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>>51569321

Mana isn't a problem, usually I have more than I need. But thinkimg anout COF reminded me of Choke, time to dig through my shit and find my copies.

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I have a friend who plays a legacy elf deck. I need to know what elves would absolutely be in a legacy elf deck.

Reson? I am drawing an art gift for him, I can't ask because it would give away the surprise. I need to populate the image with 2 other elves. Anyone suggest 2 cards he would 100% use?

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>>51572175
This might have been played in like 1996.

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>>51572175

I looked at this, I picked the heritage druid and death rite shaman, am I safe with these being in most elf decks?

>>51572230
thanks but that card is super gross looking ..I don't want to draw these guys.

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>>51572284
They are both played but give Llanowar Elves a chance.

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>>51572284
Yeah, they see play in the majority of Legacy Elf lists.

Although if you are wanting an Iconic elf, go with Priest of Titania

>>51572307
Oh thanks! This is really nice, I will work this in somewhere. I will post results in one of these threads on day in about 2 weeks

>>51572175
Assuming it is a competitive list I would probably try to put something to do with natural order or deathrite shaman on it.

>>51569114

Just thinking of ways to up consistency. Might not be necessary, but I'm wondering whether it'd up my speed a bit.

I guess the other problem is that I don't know what I'd cut. I feel like there might still be a bit of room to brew with Reanimator lists, so I was kicking it around.

Doesn't help that I realized I traded a third Griselbrand several months ago and forgot about it.

>>51569361
Choke might not have that much effect against delver

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>>51578485
It's not perfect, but might be worth testing out. Seriously, the decks I saw was BUG Delver X2, RUG Delver X2, Esper Delver thing, Miracles X2, Shardless BUG X2, Infect, Goblins, Enchantress, and Cephalid Breakfast.I know there are at least 2 other Miracles players locally as well.

I played Raking Canopy in Modern when U/R Delver took over the world, that might be worth a laugh to try once.

>>51577502
Pox with that one split second card, given there's no force you can easily Ritual into a Liliana/Discsrd

12-Post with lockdown cards like TKS/Lodestone/Chalice

>>51579082
Yeah it's probably worth a least a test in a meta so blue-heavy. With daze and low cmc's I think delver players would be able to play around it ok. But it likely would be decent against miracles as well.

>>51575024
I don't think adding a fourth color is going to increase the consistency of a deck

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Page 10? What are you fucks doing, watching the normie bowl?

Ypu know what I think would be the tits? A Lorwynesq block with colorshifted tribes. Like some shot happened and threw the mana ofnthe plane out of whack. Now elves are angry red creatures, zombies are plant loving green creatures who use their own bodies as fertilizer, angels are pissed off embodiements of black mana, etc.

>>51584751
That would probably lead to some cool color splashed tribal decks, which could be fun.
playing vidya with some friends

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>>51584796
Thats what I was thinking. Give trabal decks some new color possibilities, hopefully end up with some fresh competitive eternal decks. Also I just really like black angels. And green still needs its mono colored angel.

>>51584751
A colorshifted block could be neat and might help give a boost to some decks that are a little underpowered.
I LARPed for the 1st time this weekend and was sleeping for the past 8 hours. Shit's tiring. Fuck the normie bowl.

>>51569165
what's the sideboard card next to toxic deluge?

>>51582271

That's a fair point, but I see a lot of reanimator lists running 3–4 colors if you include sideboard cards. I don't think running a third color in the maindeck seems particularly difficult, though I might cut it back to two colors in the main when I find another G-Brand.

>>51585789

There's gotta be a story to tell here.

Also, predictions on whether it'll be the Atlanta Shitkickers or the New England Patricians?

>>51586337
Extirpate

>>51586462
this is a card between deluge and extirpate. looks like it is 2B

>>51586471
I assumed it was a foreign deluge

>>51586413
not much story to tell. my roommate roped me into it. I ran around in the snowy woods at night for 2 days and fought monsters with foam shovels and nerf guns. It was fun. I don't care for sports so I gladly slept through the pooper bowl. I hear the Pats won. Probably had something to do with Tom Brady being some kind of ruminant mammal.

>>51586337
Japanese Deluge

What do you guys think about the glimmer package in eldrazi? Might not be as consistent, but is cheaper desu

DDFT guy and other DD players: What are your opinions on older lists that run 7 chants instead of a duress/cabal therapy package? I've been liking it, jamming one and then not having to care at all about their hand is nice, and it makes time spiral safe so they can't just draw force/etc. It is pretty annoying to draw before you go off though, especially extra copies. I might even just try a split with therapy/silence or something.

>>51588176
I think in certain metagames it could be good. I haven't played much of those lists. I don't play time spiral in the board and don't really think you need it, since it's main use was in pass the turn piles or high-storm-count piles, and Lab Maniac helps with both of those. But in combo-heavy or slow blue heavy metagames it could be good. Plus if you play white you can play a Karakas main which is pretty good.

>>51588234
Karakas main has been excellent so far since we have turbo depths, lands, loam and DnT here. Chant has been nice for not dying, obviously. I haven't played enough to really form an opinion on the state of my board though. I haven't run into enough tricky situations where I really wish I had something that's not there.