/swg/ - Star Wars General - Force Lightning Edition

Friends like these

https://mega.nz/#!0JUi3SrI!te-TmN-yvRbi_o8l1MJBCGQZJMp616SIwBn1nTtrpyE

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>>51495501
Cheers, anon!

>>51495543
Every screen-cap of this show just depresses the shit out of me.

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>>51495608

>>51495473

Would it be possible for a light side jedi to rely purely on the force to kill without falling? A jedi who has decided the saber will be a ceremonial weapon and instead use the force to kill enemies who refuses to yield

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>>51495501
>Mando Shuttle has 25 hull, 1/1 shields and armor 4

>>51495696
Sure, as long as you have a good reason to be killing them.

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>Half-swording
>Mordhau
What are some other IRL swordfighting techniques that would look incredibly silly when done with lightsabers?

>>51495715
>Heavily modified

>>51495630
I think you misunderstand, I'm a fan.

And I miss her.

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>>51495501
>Mando Human Player Race

>>51495756
>Half-swording
>Mordhau
>look incredibly silly when done with lightsabers

If your definition of incredibly silly is to cut ones own fingers of then sure.

>>51495756
All of them

Light sabers are actually terrible weapons and encourage forgetting things like leverage, inertia and anything other than flailing around at full arms length and hoping for the best.

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>>51495829
Cortosis gauntlets, son.

>>51495770
>still has a hardpoint, and modifications were listed as improved hyperdrive, shields, and weapons
That means the base model has six hardpoints, plus the aforementioned bulk.

>>51495880
That would literally just shut off the saber.

>>51495756
That wushu technique where you rest the blade along your arm

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>>51495888
>Mythosaur Axes are Damage 7, Crit 2, Cortosis, Pierce 3, Vicious 3

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>>51495779
No more 'shōnen'...

>>51495501
>dat scan quality
My ewok

>>51495906
Eh, depends on the writer. "Cortosis-weave" in KOTOR didn't shut the saber off. Also, didn't Galak Fyyar's armor not shut off the player's saber in Jedi Outcast? Or am I remembering that boss fight wrong?

>>51495906
Phrik gauntlets, then?

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>>51495970
Now the real question is it +4 or seven damage direct.

>>51496060

Its +4. Mando Leader at the end has one and 4 brawn for 8 damage.

>That picture

Holy fuck gets me every time

Damn, Friends Like These seems like a dope adventure.

>>51496240
It definitely looks that way, if a bit powerful IMO.

Favorite Adventure? Personally my favorite has been Jewel of Yavin

>>51496384
I've only run Trouble Brewing, but Mask of the Pirate Queen looks fun, if only for boarding an enemy ship in the middle of a space battle to fight a pirate queen

>>51496384

Just finished Friends Like These, which is good.

Arda I was pretty great. Either that or the one with Cracken.

For the purposes of ship encumbrance, how much does a normal sized humanoid take? I mean for the purposes of needing short ranged transport of a lot of people, not trying to get around the set passenger amount (which I imagine reflects lodging, food, air etc).

Ie, a light freighter with 80 encum is pressed as a battlefield transport, how many could fit?

>>51496705
Modern blackhawk carry about 10 people, a freight could probably carry about 20 for a short period. So 5 encumbrance per person?

>>51496705
Lambda can carry 20 passengers or 200 encumbrance units. Assuming that accounts for amenities, I'd say you could uncomfortably fit 35-40 people in one for a shot time.

>>51495501
Gladiator Star Destroyer and Raider Corvette stats in there too, huh?

Neat.

>>51496808
>>51496866
Alright, thanks for the input brehs

Friends like these spoilers
I saw the bit where you have to extract the spy from the Blood Ambition, and got to thinking: bring three transports instead of one, and try to disable the ship from the inside with an elite strike team.

>>51495696
I don't think it would be possible. Using the Force seems very intimate and that's why certain acts you do with it affect the user so strongly. It's not some tool you pick up and put down easily and without thought. Using only the Force to kill sounds to me like it would be the same as strangling your enemies with your bare hands so as to see the light fade from their eyes better. That's some fucked up shit and sure to have consequences.

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I need to know how much a one man and droid salvage company would get per month on average. One PC may be taking over a small salvage company and i need to know some logistics.

>>51497121
It's not like you have to force choke them while looking right in their eyes. Just push them out of your way, if you have no other choice push them off something or something onto them.

>>51497029

So use the mandos to disable the Gladiator? Nice.

>>51497452

If they're taking it over, they'll get whatever profits they actually make minus logistics and repair costs.

>>51497541
Ok but is their any range of credits i can gauge to see what the standard usually is.

>>51497452
This is a little difficult because of so many conflicting sources. If you can do a good job, in Saga edition you can probably fund your second and third ships with the right kind of scrap and salvage, even with just a man and a droid with a good target selection junkers in space or great big imperial ships crashlanded on a desert are worth big money.

However, we know from sources in the fiction and from other places that this shouldn't be the case. Despite the fact that a single blaster pistol should be worth meals for a week, and many many ships would have hundreds of said object on board, breaking into engine rooms and yanking out valuable parts only gets enough to barely survive sometimes.

It's probably something to do with supply, demand, having buyers, and competition. When I set something like this up for players in a different game I handed out 1000-5000 creds a month as it was sort of a background thing assuming that they weren't being particularly adventurous; That being said, I've also based entire adventures around salvaging a ship worth 50 grand over the course of a week, which between upgrades, gear on board, and the cost of the ship itself, isn't terribly difficult.

>>51497644
I see. Thank you for your input.

OK so i got an idea for a superweapon that basically is a giant sphere with incredibly thick armor that slams into planets and ships but has no weapons of its own. What would a good name for it be. The Battle Bolt or Battle Ball?

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>>51497761
Dodgeball
Smashball (named after the actual in-universe sport)
Sphere of Influence
Chaos Dunk
If you're feeling Australian, the Crusher Ball.

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Hello new GM here. My EoE party wants a new starship. The party consists of a GS smuggler, ex-jedi, HG heavy and a BH. It must be able to carry two fighters for the jedi and Bh to pilot. Do you guys have any suggestions?

>>51497800
You knew exactly where i got inspiration from. Thank you for this image.

>>51495696
Seeing as how the Force is a quasi-living spiritual connection between all lifeforms, I doubt reaching out into the essence of another being and snuffing that life out is something that won't have long term negative consequences.

I can't imagine how you'd kill someone by touching their soul WITHOUT putting the weight of your emotions into it. Assuming they're completely impassive about it (which would kinda just make them a powerful sociopath - a much more mundane problem), at the very least they'd be leaving wounds in the Force that gather latent Dark Side mojo.

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>>51497800
>Sphere of Influence

>>51497814
If it's going to rack two fighters, it'll need to be Sil 5. What sort of power level are they operating at?

If it's lower power, you could probably trick out a Wayfarer to have its cargo pod replaced with a fighter bay. The Citadel-class I believe can carry a pair of TIEs. The trouble is that most craft capable of carrying smaller starfighers also require larger crews.

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>>51497522
That's the point - Reaching out and touching someone with the force isn't like smacking them out of the way with the back of your hand, it's more like reaching in close, sliding your bodies closer and closer like lovers, wrapping an arm around their waist, your faces nearly touching as your finger caresses their cheek than draws small circles across their body. It's intimate, using the force itself to make a connection with another human being, another body in the force.

And then you grab them over your shoulder and reach around their hips, picking them up and power-slamming them through a table, shouting as you stand up with adrenaline raging through your system from the sheer excitement the act and the cheers of the around all around you - And they truly are all around you, every mote of energy a screaming fan sharing their energy, every being connected through the force letting you know how badass you truly are.

It's way easier to force-move objects. Not as much of an influence in the force, don't have to get as touchy-feely by getting your force jammed in with their force, etc. Hence why Vader prefers grabbing a bitch by the throat and interrogating them in the intro of New Hope, not just force-fucking them in the dark like an ugly date.

>>51497981
Outer mount hardpoints, which would be conspicous as fuck. The falcon could mount luke's xwing the the topside rear airlock if it was inverted to the other (top to top) in old cannon. If you had a ship or frieghter with two adaptive hardpoint/airlocks then just magclamp those mother fuckers to the hull, and dont fly them conjoined in atmosphere.

>>51498140
Yeah, that would be doable too (if you have zero fashion sense)

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>>51498002
>mfw that description of touching someone with the force
Now I'm wondering if somewhere out there is a non-Jedi force tradition with a Kama Sutra for force users.

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>>51497814
I'm going to keep suggesting the "Sabaac Fortune" or a custom ship until you either accept it into your heart or start making angry hooting sounds at your monitor.

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>>51497814
>>51498326
Seriously, building your own ship is a ton of fun.

>>51498259
...I know there is, I remember reading this in one of the Saga splatbooks. I think it was in Legacy?

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>>51498002
Anon, do you write porn by any chance?

Do you want to start?

>>51498002
That's why I thought it might have been a bit clever that when Kylo wasn't STOPPIN BLASTRE BOLTZ and *GRABS U BY THE SHIRT*, his displays of power were pretty heavy on mental intrusion and thus prone causing backfires and weepy bouts of emo poetry composition.

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>>51498259
>Force Choke her
>She's into it

Inquisitor teams probably get up to a lot of kinky shit in hyperspace.

>>51498344

I dont know why Im laughing my ass off so hard at the kitchen implements, but I am.

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>>51498571
They do tend to lead to odd shapes.

People have been a little afraid to resize, overlap, copy, or edit the parts. Not sure why. It's just an inspirational tool. You don't /have/ to use every single part of the turkey trimmer.

Is there a full pdf of the Soldier book somewhere?

New GM here, question about starship rules. I get that when the party is up against TIE Fighters or the like you have to run it using the TIE pilot's stats meshed with the actual fighter's stats, but what about capital ships? I can't find any stat blocks for the nameless crew in Star Destroyers and the like. The books say that you can often set up arcs of turrets as minion groups but don't give any stats for those minion groups. Is each turret it's own minion in that case or does each one have a crew of minions "piloting" it? How many points of damage does it take to destroy a capital ship's turret?

>>51498002
This anon >>51498002 explains it way better than I did here >>51497121 and in better graphic detail.

A lot of problems the fans seem to have with the Force and Jedi is the notion that the Force is this object or tool you pick up and put down like a pen, when it's not. It's something intimate that flows through you, those around you and the whole universe. Jedi and force sensitives aren't suppose to just have superpowers whose use is completely disconnected from their psyche, their body and even their very souls. How one uses the Force *matters* the same as why one uses the Force.

>>51498002
Alright, so you get a slab of plasteel and you smack 'em around with it from across the room. No force-canoodling required. It could even double as a shield.

>>51498770
>I can't find any stat blocks for the nameless crew in Star Destroyers and the like.
Did you try chapter 12 of AoR?

>>51498890
You could do that. There are 2 problems though.

1, you're still killing someone with the Force. You'd feel it. You take away everything he's got and everything he's ever gonna have, and you did it via your mystic connection to the universe. It's like getting blood spatter on your soul.

2. Killing people is the least interesting and thematic thing a Jedi can do.

>>51499029
Yeah, that's why I had
>Just push them out of your way, if you have no other choice push them off something or something onto them.
in the previous post.

>>51499029
How is it then, that all the Jedi in pretty much all the PT and interim seem so blase about death and slicing their enemies to pieces...?

>>51499052
Well, most of their enemies are dumb robots covered in dangerous lead paint.

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>>51499052
Because they've already fallen to the Dark Side?

Because they were an arrogant cult who have lost their way. They became warrior-monks, not mystics. Calm became detachment. Serenity became peace at any cost. The joy of combat was one of the few allowed to their order - small wonder that they learned to love it.

>>51498890
at that point your killing someone by blunt force trauma.
A wookie could do the same.

Your taking the idea of a jedi and making it less interesting.

>>51499052
Most of their kills were legitimate enemy combatants, and a significant proportion of those kills were made against droids. The only droid the Force ever gave a shit about was Skippy

>>51499161
>stop liking things I don't like
All I've done is named a way for a jedi to get along with only the force and no other weapons that has a lower likelyhood of going darkside than someone running around farting lightning.

Is there a table of ship "minor critical hits" anywhere? A list of interesting things that can go wrong when a ship takes damage.

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>>51499265
Did you open the rulebook? At all?

>>51499261
you made something silly, with no real explaination, that functions like a wookie.

where the 'so what?'. Why would anyone find what you did interesting? Why would that be an interesting character?

You can like it if you want, but other people can think it's crap if they want. And they have better reasons in this case.

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>>51499292
Sorry, I should have specified. This is systemsless. I'm not very familiar with the FFG Star Wars books.

Thanks though. Much appreciated.

>>51499102
Dude, I like this explanation. A lot.

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>>51499313
Rise above the bait, anon.

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>>51499313
There are lots of well received characters who fight by manipulating objects. It's almost like there's more to a character than the most simple way to describe how they fight.

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>>51499335
I've always assumed it was canon, at least in part. The Jedi in the prequels have lost their connection to the Force. "The Dark Side clouds everything," Yoda says, but it's not the Sith doing it. They aren't the good guys.

There is no conflict within the Force, only within ourselves. When the prophecy said that a child would be born to bring balance to the Force, the Jedi didn't even consider that this could be to their detriment. For their arrogance, they were destroyed. The survivors saw the galaxy fall into an age of darkness the Jedi could have prevented, but instead ensured would occur.

>>51499339
I don't think it's bait, I think it's someone trying to make a special snowflake character "I'm a Jedi who only kills with the force" without realizing it actual makes his character less interesting rather than more.

There is a 1 in a thousand chance that if someone points out how boring those type of things turn out, he'll actually try making an interesting character.

>>51495473
Emperor of the Galaxy, or Emperor of Bantz?

>>51499415
Anon, I'm not trying to make and play this character, someone asked if it could be done. It can be done, you just don't like my answer of how.

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>>51499415
See, "I'm a Jedi who doesn't use a lightsaber" is an interesting enough concept.

But rephrasing it in terms of killing ability is either bait or hopelessly stuck in a murderhobo D&D mindset.

>>51499404
except this character started from the premise "I make a jedi who only fights with the force".
which is a terrible way to start.
Starting from a superpower isn't great, but you can expand from where they got the power, what they do with it, etc.

But the starting super power is already there, he's a jedi. But he's a 'super unique' jedi because of blah blah fucking blah.

He doesn't want to use a lightsaber in combat, okay. Start from there. But don't go to 'how do I kill with the force'. The next step is 'why?', 'what happened?', etc etc.

Static Shock, magneto, etc, might have had been given a super power, but they went with characters within the setting. Not trying to break from the setting to make character.

>>51499412
It didn't help that the Jedi Temple was built over a powerful dark side vergence in a failed effort to contain it.

>>51499412
And this could lead to a possible reason for Luke being "The Last Jedi"... no one else wants to be one. Or they realize that maybe some of the Jedi teachings were good, but a majority were a bit wrong. Maybe the third trilogy is about the actual balance/duality of the Force. Not too much light, not too much dark.

Spitballing here, anyone can feel free to tear this to shreds.

>>51499530
I wonder whats going to happen to the Jedi in Rebels. Yoda knew about them, and mentions in RotJ that Luke is the last after he is gone.

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>>51499560
After seeing how shitty the last batch of Inquisitors was, maybe Palps and Vader will decide to hire someone competent to fill the vacancy.

>>51499491
>ranting angrily about character motivation instead of reading the thread to see I'm not the one who asked the question originally
Take a pill, man. Are you on mobile or something?

>>51499560
Yoda could have lied in case Luke was corrupted by Palps. Even if Luke was corrupted he wasn't the last one because Leia.

>>51499597
Leia is just force-sensitive and received no Jedi training. She was pretty much Yoda's "Plan B".

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>>51499491
When I start making a character the first thing I do is consider what fetishes I want to force into my friends lives.

Have I been doing it wrong all this time?

>>51499597
If Luke was corrupted then that would seal the fate for any remaining Jedi left, since him and Vader would rule the galaxy together as father and son. Though that makes me wonder if Luke would eventually turn on Vader, or if their familial bond would keep them in relative harmony.

>>51499621
>no Jedi training
That sounds a lot like Luke himself.

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>>51499515
Well, see, that makes the story less interesting. It's like Palpatine mind controlling people. It's a much better story if they did it for regular human reasons, not supernatural ones.

>>51499530
Pretty much. I think the Jedi in their old form are finished either way. Luke's either the last Jedi (and sick of the whole damn thing), or he'll train a new "Jedi" order with different principles. Like, you know, love. Hope. Compassion. Trust.

That sort of thing.

>>51499634
Luke was a college dropout. Leia didn't go to post secondary school.

>>51499530
>Not too much light, not too much dark.
This is the wrong way to approach the Force. There isn't supposed to be any Dark because the Force isn't some sort of 1:1 ratio deal. "Balance" in the Force isn't a matter of managing a scale, it's a matter of maintaining the harmony of nature. The Jedi (when they haven't gone full retard) are the embodiment of that harmony, as exemplified by the old Jedi Code:

Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet the Force.

Vader didn't finish the prophecy in the PT. He finished it in RotJ.

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>>51499621
And Yoda never considered why he needed a "Plan A" in the first place, or if he did, he didn't tell Luke.

>>51499634
>trained by Obi-wan
>trained by Yoda.
by that point Luke had been trained in the Jedi way.

>>51499629
No, Luke and Vader would team up and kill Palps, Vader would eventually die of age, and Luke would go indoctrinate Rosh. Muh rule of two.

>>51499662
>one short hyperspace jump and a few days with no lightsaber training or advanced force techniques
Hardly.

>>51499648
The "yet" clause is awesome. But the Jedi hadn't used it for thousands of years because some dickhead decided he'd reinterpret it to his own liking. And I guess everyone just went "okay, cool, yeah, let's do that".

After that, the OJO became about "lightside" rather than harmony of nature, so that's more what I meant in terms of balance.

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>>51499679
>>admits to Luke having training while Leia had none whatsoever
>>still considers this none at all

>>51499683
>But the Jedi hadn't used it for thousands of years
TCW/Rebels did something rather weird with that. IIRC, one of Kanan's flashback scenes had him reciting the yetcode right in front of the OJO authorities and not getting shut down.

>>51499703
>Yeah dude, I'm college educated, I got like like three... four credits

>>51499640
>It's a much better story if they did it for regular human reasons, not supernatural ones.

But that's pretty much what happened. In their hubris, they believed that they could seal it away, and built a temple to their vanity atop a source of evil.

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>>51498326
>>51498344
Original Sabacc Fortune guy here. Our group needed a regular no-nonsense hauler to hijack (gotta keep the Fortune flying somehow, she's a gulper when in comes to fuel and parts) but our GM was fresh out of ideas for haulers. So we decided to brainstorm one up the same way we created the Fortune.

We churned out this thing, which i illustrated by MSpaint chicken scratches.

>>51499530

> Or they realize that maybe some of the Jedi teachings were good, but a majority were a bit wrong.

No I think you're right. If you look at say, the bible, there's a different view of God in a lot of it. Take Romans (who is clay to speak back to the potter) compared to Jesus' I love you all.

In universe, I would say a lot of the teachings of the Jedi are all old teachings that were brought in to address specific crises in the order. No attachments, for instance, was probably from some schism that happened after the Jedi had to do something for the greater good.

The Jedi lost context, and as such their teachings became a muddled fucked-up mess where no-one was allowed to be themselves and learn from how the force moved through them.

Thats why Yoda changed up his methods in ESB. Because he knows how badly he fucked up.

>>51499679
this was in RotJ, so several month of training with Yoda at least.

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>>51499648
Think of the Force as a stone sphere, half white, half black.

As you roll the stone in your hands, sometimes all you can see is white, and sometimes, only black.

The stone is the Force. The Force is always in balance. How could it be otherwise?

But living things are in conflict. They see the stone tumble and seek to stop it, one way or another. And then they wonder why things go wrong - why their Temples fall or their mighty war-machines are brought down.

The conflict is not in the Force. The conflict is within you.

Close your eyes and hold the stone. Now, you are one with the Force.

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>>51499717
>source of evil.

The source of evil is within them, anon, not in some ancient idol.

After all, the vergence cannot tempt one who is at peace. It cannot sway a heart that is free of fear.

>>51499715
That's still not nothing. He clearly put that little training to good use. The only time Leia used the Force was when Luke called out to her.

>>51499731
But that's completely wrong. The light side IS balance. The dark side IS imbalance. When the prophecy is fulfilled at the end of RotJ there are Sith, not an equal number of Sith and Jedi.

>>51499715
Luke also went out of his way to improve himself and his abilities. Between the movies, he searched for Jedi knowledge to supplement his near-total lack of training.

Leia wasn't even aware of her powers until the end of RotJ, and TFA pretty much established that she didn't work on them at all after outside of her force stroke when Han died.

>>51499741
It could cloud their vision though, which is what it did, and was one of the reasons for their fall from grace.

>>51499731
You're operating under the assumption that Dark Side-induced conflict is natural. It isn't. Regular, mundane conflicts are an inescapable fact of life, but Dark Siders seek to imbalance nature by forcing and exacerbating conflict for their own desires. There's a difference between muggles getting into trade disputes and petty sector skirmishes, and a shitbag sorcerer in black pajamas threatening the well-being of the entire galaxy.

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>>51499763
Ah, well, see, that is what a Jedi would say. What Jedi would ever credit the Dark? And how did that turn out for them?

Size matters not, nor do numbers. It's not some equation that must be summed to zero. It's more like balancing your mind.

>>51499731
>Think of the Force as a stone sphere, half white, half black.
but that's wrong
think of the force as a body. the dark side is like cancerous cells. when the force is in balance, it's like a mole; when it's out of balance, it's like a metastatic tumor

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>>51499789
Conflict is a natural part of life - an animal, primal part.

But the conflict I'm talking about is inner conflict. "Am I doing the right thing?", "Did I act out of justice or out of anger?"

The point is to recognize that the Light and the Dark are the Force - and to ignore one is to lose both.

>>51499763
>there are Sith
Sorry, there are NO sith.

>>51499799
>tumblr image
The OJO was fucked because they were too blind to see a sith lord literally right under their nose, not because of your bioware-enforced headcanon.

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>>51499803
Aha, again, this is what a Jedi would say. That is dogma.

But is it true? Is cancer evil? Does a virus hate? Isn't death a natural part of life? How can life exist without it?

The Force connects all living things, and all living things must die. Why reject that part of life?

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>>51499718
Very nice! That's quite the hauler.

Just remember, if you have a fuel tank and a match, you also have a missile. Congrats on your new gunboat.

>>51499799
Weasel words and goalpost relocation. It was already stated and universally agreed that a being that a balanced mind is the mark of a Jedi. The Sith do not seek mental balance. They exist in a perpetual state of mental imbalance (Peace is a lie, there is only passion), and seek the means with which to not just maintain, but exacerbate the imbalance. And through that imbalance, Dark Siders fuck up everything for everyone else.

Also, George mentioned in an interview(can't remember which one, though, but I think it was during TCW) that the Jedi were correct. Disney has not released any statement that contradicts this. Ergo, until explicitly stated otherwise, Lucas' word is that the Jedi are in the right.

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>>51499900
A balanced mind is the mark of a Jedi? Then when do we see this? Only after the Jedi are all but extinct.

Before then, the Jedi are conflicted, even if they refuse to admit it. They act with cruelty and blindness, but cloak it in a veneer of "peacekeeping" and "defending the Republic".

The Sith do not seek mental balance, but so be it. It's not as though embracing imbalance and letting it rule you utterly is any worse than embracing balance and letting it become sterility and cruelty.

And Yeah, Lucas said "Jedi are capital-G-good and the Dark Side is right and proper Evil", but he's said a lot of things. This is /tg/. We're here to make interesting stories. God help us all if we turn to Lucas for advice on story crafting.

>>51499827
>>51499803
>>51499900
To be fair, a lot of the recent canon seems to be leaning towards a duality of the force between light and dark, rather than the dark side being a corruption of the force. Bendu is a balance between both, so he says, and his whole shtick is balance given the nature of the lessons he gave to Kanan.

Perhaps the Sith themselves are the imbalance, rather than both the Sith and the dark side. The Force "awoke" in TFA, both the light and the dark side, after decades of dormancy. If the Force was brought into balance by Anakin, it seems like a really weak prophecy if its fulfillment only brought three decades of balance. Why would the dark side awaken as well?

>>51499961
>a story with clear bad guys can't be interesting.
I like a good grey on grey conflict story too, but that's not the only type of interesting story.

Stick within your premise, or make the breaking of the premise the explicit purpose of your new story. Don't just fuck around with the premise willy nilly.

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>>51499961
>Before then, the Jedi are conflicted, even if they refuse to admit it. They act with cruelty and blindness, but cloak it in a veneer of "peacekeeping" and "defending the Republic".
>The Sith do not seek mental balance, but so be it. It's not as though embracing imbalance and letting it rule you utterly is any worse than embracing balance and letting it become sterility and cruelty.

I wonder who could be behind this post...

>>51499961
>Then when do we see this?
When Luke discards his lightsaber at Endor. The OJO suck, and they had long since fallen from grace, and lost their understanding of what "balance" meant. And that's why the OJO aren't good examples of Jedi. The moment Luke dropped his saber is the moment he became the embodiment of the ideal Jedi Knight. The core tenets outlined by the yetcode are the ideals a good Jedi Knight would follow, and if Kanan was any indication, he was a sign that the OJO was not totally beyond redemption or monolithic in its beliefs. Kanan is living proof that peaceful internal reform was still a possibility.

And as we've seen with every historical example in Star Wars, the Dark Siders are the ones who fuck things up. They are the ones who cause genocide, misery, and war on a galactic scale. The OJO might have sucked at their jobs at certain points, but the fun-hating turbo-Vulcans were a hell of a lot less harmful to galactic well-being than the cackling sorcerers who blasted lightning from their nipples.

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>>51500012
Absolutely. But see, we've got /plenty/ of info for that. It's easy to write.

Space Opera with "Oh shit, these 2 competing orders of Force Users were each obsessed with half of the truth, leading to their endless feuding and the destruction of both" seems like a solid premise.

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>>51500104
Exactly! You aren't disagreeing with me at all.

The Jedi historically only found sucess when looking beyond their own tenets. Makes you wonder.

And sure, those who use the Dark Side tend to make life lousy for those around them. And? They're still half of the stone orb - suffering and joy, hatred and love.

Just because it's "worse" for you personally to live next to a dark side user compared to a light side user doesn't mean that the Force gives a damn.

The dark side is as natural as the emotions that empower it - but it is also naturally lesser in influence, though not necessarily in power.

However, the Sith - one of a large number of dark side Force traditions - are the specific root of the imbalance, the disharmony, mentioned in the PT. When Anakin Skywalker cast off the persona of Darth Vader, returned to the light, and threw Palpatine into the pit, THAT is when the balance is restored. That's straight from George, and before you start in on Disney changing it with things like the Bendu, it's also re-stated by JJ and Kathleen Kennedy that RotJ is when the Prophecy was fulfilled and balance was restored.

Now, whatever ancient evil Snoke is, and his newfound Knights of Ren, has restored that imbalance, because they've taken up the place of the Sith as a dominating force of dark side users twisting the fate of the galaxy.

It's not little dark side groups like the Frangawl Cult or the Nightsisters that are causing issues with balance, it's the Sith and others with galactic-scale reach.

>>51500121
okay, but that's not Star Wars proper.
That's an elseworld tale to Star Wars. You intentionally are breaking one of the understood premises to tell a different story.

Which is cool... so long as you present it as telling a different story by intentionally changing one of the premises. Which you didn't, because it's 4chan and the temptation to be a bit of a dick is there.
Don't do that.

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>>51500198
The only reason why the Nightsisters weren't more of a threat was because Sheev told their leader specifically if they left their little backwaters planet he would slap their shit personally.

>>51500194
>The Jedi historically only found success when looking beyond their own tenets.
Obi-Wan mentioned several generations of peace. Clearly, those motherfuckers were doing something right with their tenets. The Legends OJO's moral decay began with Odan-Urr changing those tenets. The blame thus falls not on the Jedi Code, but on the moral decay caused by the change to the Jedi Code. The PT OJO did not embody the "Light." They had fallen from grace. The "Light" is Luke in the previously mentioned example. Light is balance. Eastern philosophy paints balance as the good. Imbalance is undesirable, and the Dark Side is the analogue. The Dark Side is not the natural expression of emotion or a Yin-Yang thing. The Dark Side is what happens when that emotion is twisted, exaggerated, and tainted in such a way that it leads to evil. The "Light" is everything that occurs within natural, acceptable, non-harmful emotional parameters. The "Dark" is everything outside acceptable emotional parameters.

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>>51500238
It's a very nebulously discussed premise, at least in the main canon. And it seems like nucanon is definitely going down a similar path. We'll see, after 2 more movies, who's interpretation is "right".

Heck, we'll probably find out in "The Last Jedi"

>>51500305
These are infinitely cooler than the shitty lazy TIE rehashes we got in TFA. What a lazy and creatively bankrupt movie

>>51500354
But practical effects!

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>>51495473

Any advice for running Imperial campaigns?

>>51500292
No the Light does not emulate Eastern balance. If it did than that would mean that the Light would contain a little darkness and the Dark would contain a little light. Shadow can't exist without the light as they say.

>>51500384
the movie was sadly safe, but it was well made.
Things looked good and real, the action was clear, the dialogue was well done and believable.

Now people who say it's exactly the same as the ANH are talking out their ass, it's overly safe but that's not the same thing. Hell one of the faults of TFA was that following three different main characters caused some pacing issues. ANH didn't have this problem because it was Luke Skywalker's story with a few cut aways.

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>>51500445
Terminal Lance and Generation Kill are required viewing for anything Stormtrooper related.

>>51500462
It looked good, but the dialogue was really bad. It felt like a Marvel movie where there was absolutely no tension.

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>>51500462
Are you serious? I liked tfa but you are blind or retarded if you don't think tfa was almost a scene or scence rehash of anh adapted for a modern audience.

>>51500459
Different philosophy dumbass, Yin-Yang is not what Star Wars was based off of.

>>51500497
compare this to the Prequels.
There were no actively cringeworthy moments, it didn't drag, and no actor looked like they were phoning it in.

It's not exceptional, but neither was the majority of the original trilogy.

>>51500507
no, it wasn't.
it followed a very basic Heroes journey story like ANH did, but there were plenty of differences.

Just the simple fact that we followed 3 stories makes it different.

>>51500459
>No the Light does not emulate Eastern balance. If it did than that would mean that the Light would contain a little darkness and the Dark would contain a little light. Shadow can't exist without the light as they say.
you're conflating two different eastern philosophies you goof

>>51500445
three ways in my experience

1. the empire no matter the views on the extreme measures it takes is necessary for the good of the galaxy. If you go this route, your players are engaging pirates, smugglers and outer rim warlords who think they can do whatever they want and inflict whatever cruelties they feel like. season to taste with extremist rebels who don't mind blowing up a block square to hit the empire, like Saw Gerrera's rebels. you can be evil here too.

2. the empire is wrong but meaningful change can only come from within. This is potentially the most interesting as you struggle to be good and honorable in scenarios that don't support it. Using your star destroyer to offer aid relief to planets that you just finished bombarding to remove a rebel base might get you yelled at by a superior officer but it will also help a planet view the empire as more than a monolithic monster. You can do that in many smaller and many larger ways. this will inevitably end in either an elseworlds where the empire doesn't quite get its ass beat as severely as it has thanks to support your slightly rebellious players have secured for the empire on planets and outposts throughout the galaxy who remember not every imperial officer and soldier is a son of a bitch, or option 3.

Option 3 is to use an imperial campaign as the start to a defection campaign. this can be fun for its own reasons (I had my players heatedly discussing rebellion and planning the theft of an imperial cruiser, and planning that all out can be fun and lead to great scenarios) and this could theoretically take over the planned campaign at any point the players feel like it. It can also have the most nebulous endings- becoming warlords post endor, serving in the outer rim as pirates or as protectors of some small world the empire has forgotten, or joining the rebellion and her million extant slightly more evil (or more good and less helpful) cousins.

>>51500610
>There were no actively cringeworthy moments
I don't know, the Anakin/Padme scenes were pretty bad.

>>51500514
Than don't fucking claim false things asshole. The light and darkside is pure western black and white good vs evil

>>51500507
Now tell us the one about avengers quipping.

>>51500610
Comparing shiny shit to regular shit doesn't make it not shit. Every time Finn spoke it was pretty cringey, the only time it ever worked was that one moment between him and his lover Poe when he admits he just needs a pilot. Every other time it's like he's in a different movie.

And Ford was totally phoning it in.
>>This is the Death Star. Now this is Starkiller Base.
>>How do we blow it up so I can go home?
Wow, it's like I'm on the edge of my seat just talking about it!

>>51500649
What are you talking about they had jokes in the original trilogy as well. I don't fault tfa for having jokes I fault it for being a tfa clone.
>>51500610
How did it follow three stories and even if it did that doesn't stop that every scene had an analogue in ANH.

>>51500471
100% accurate. Incompetent officers, unclear mission objectives, hurry up and wait, VCPs with no real description of what the BOLO person/droid looks like other than extremely general terms... Big, organized, well-equipped force dealing with harassing, asymmetric, guerrilla-style little force. Ugh, too many comparisons to make, man.

>>51500676
okay, by that standard ANH was regular shit help up by a small number of great actors (most of whom die in that movie).
Mark Hamal isn't a good actor until RotJ, he's okay but not good and at times bad. The fact that Carry Fisher was getting drunk shows in a few scenes.
C-3PO is also an annoying character, with cringeworthy dialogue. But unlike Finn people accept that we are supposed to laugh at the dialogue (hint, most of Finns dialogue was not supposed to make him look good).

>>51500687
it followed Finn, Rey, and Kylo Ren. We cut back and forth between them a bunch in act 1 and act 3. In act 2 Finn and Rey are together, but we still cut.

And the analogies are fucking stretched. Half the time that analogy works just as well for The Hobbit. It's a heroes journey story, they all follow the same general beats, this does not make them scene for scene remakes.

>>51500647
Then why the big deal about not letting emotions and attachment cloud judgement? The whole thing with eastern philosophy is that worldly concerns and emotions prevent one from achieving enlightenment. Western Good/Evil is more about obedience to the will of god (or good) and abstaining from the temptations of the devil (evil). Luke is never tempted to sin. He's tempted to let the safety of his friends and his desire for revenge cloud his judgement and lead him down a path of misery and woe. If this were straight western good/evil then striking down the emperor when taunted to do so would be the GOOD thing to do, but he doesn't do that.

>>51500830
I never had a problem with Hamill, he seemed well suited to the classic hero role. Probably because he was our gateway to Star Wars so anything that's explained to him is explained to us.

As for C3P0 he was supposed to be annoying and cringey. Just about everyone is bothered by him, it's only that he's programmed with the right skills that nobody turned him off permanently.

Finn just didn't fit into a Star Wars movie. It can have some funny dialogue, some light hearted stuff, but it's not a summer comedy movie. When people reacted to his stuff from the trailer as being the 'movie black guy', they weren't far off.

All the talk ITT about the OJO having lost its way and fallen and whatnot strikes me as totally wrongheaded. It goes into that edgelord territory that was rightfully mocked by Obi-Wan when Anakin said FROM MY POINT OF VIEW THE JEDI ARE EVIL!

The Jedi made mistakes. They were overly dogmatic in their beliefs and unable to adapt when it was needed and blind to things that they should have seen. But saying that they were already corrupt and tainted by the dark side not only undermines Palpatine as a villain (because what was so amazing about him was his ultimate plan was to manipulate the Republic and the Jedi into making the least bad choice at every juncture and as a result fall into his trap more or less willingly) but it undermines the mythos by making the the before-the-dark-times Old Republic and their damn fool idealistic crusading Knights and the 1000 Generations Of Peace and Justice a farce that could reasonably argued to be no better than the Evil Empire instead of farcically, which is how such arguments are always portrayed in-universe.

Rather than thinking of the Jedi as fallen and corrupt, its more proper given the thematic tone of the setting to view them as tragic. They did the things that they did not because they were secretly evil, but because they were good and therefore how they responded was inevitable (which was exactly what Sheev planned for).

I'm not saying there isn't good story potential in "the good parts of the Empire," like a Palleon, or the bad parts of the Republic like was saw in CG Clone Wars. But undermining the basic principle that the OJO and OR were fundamentally a Golden Age who's loss is to be mourned is harmful to the setting.

>>51500967
No retarded stormfags and poltards reacted to him as lol nigger stormtrooper and le gorrila man

>>51501008
Lots of normies thought that too. They applauded the 'muh diversity wars' but still didn't like how he sounded like a standard black character.

>>51500901

Luke IS tempted to sin. The Dark Side is the "quick and easy path." Time and again its hammered into our heads by the bad guys that if only Luke gave into the Dark Side he might have the power to save everyone. He is righteous and holy enough to be the savior because he resists that siren's song.

Star Wars blends eastern and western philosophies into something that doesn't perfectly parallel with either. Trying to discard the parts from one for the sake of your argument is just lazy thinking.

>>51500967
I don't know anon, I liked Finn. He was funny, served as an everyman for newer audience members, and the overwhelming levity he provided helped make Han's death all the more jarring.

>>51500967
so it's okay for the companion following along the main character to be annoying and cringy in ANH, but it's not okay when it happens in TFA.

of course Finn isn't just the companion of Rey, he takes a more active role, because the movies are not the same (there is no one captured who needs to get rescues in the third act of ANH).

I wasn't a huge fan of the character either, but that's a personal peeve against that type of humor. The dialogue is decent to good for movie standards, just not exceptional. IE, ANH, with a weaker head for the enemy military. And the old overly qualified actor dies earlier.

Daisy Rider is honestly better than Hamill was, Kylo Ren wasn't voiced by James Earl Jones but he does a great job.

>>51501006
No it isn't harmful. Why I don't think the Jedi were falling to the darkside or evil or corrupt or any of that stupid shit, I do think that the OJO was too arrogant and dogmatic and that it helped allow Palpatine to influence and control Anakin. Had the OJO not have retarded attachment rules Anakin may had been able to resist the Dark Side better or at least had made Sheev's plans alot harder.

>>51500967
>>51501039

He's supposed to sound different and out of place, his entire character is that he was born into a traditional Star Wars role that he was fundamentally wrong for and never meant to be in. Jar Jar is a horrible crime against humanity but nobody ever said he didn't "fit into Star Wars," because his dialogue was too goofy and dumb and didn't sound right.

Its a clear double-standard that is there only because it was A BLACK STORMTROOPER and you know it.

>>51501090
I liked Finn but you are dead wrong about Daisy being better than Hamill. Sure her character was a far, far more competent hero than Luke was she was never a better actor in the slightest. Finn was actually a great actor. Kylo while I think he looks ugly he wasn't nearly as intimidating as Vader was.

>>51501152
John Boyega was solid in Attack the Block.

>>51501072
Did anyone actually find Han's death jarring? When I first saw TFA and especially the times I've rewatched I can't see Han Solo at all. All I see is Harrison Ford wanting out of the franchise. Kylo Ren could have just turned his lightsaber on and I wouldn't have batted an eye if Ford had just jumped onto it.

>>51501172
Yeah, plus the fact that it was telegraphed from a mile away didn't help. I think that's why Finn was there and so eccentric, but whether it worked or not is up for debate.

Well, not really. It didn't really work. Still like Finn though.

>>51501152
Hamill in ANH, not Hamill in RotJ.
He's very bland in ANH.
Do you get any sense he's a man who just lost his entire family in... any of the scenes after that happens?

Hamill becomes a better actor than Daisy currently is. But at the time of ANH, he was not better than she is now.

>>51501138
W..what? I've heard the argument that jarjar didnt fit into star wars constantly. That he was a worse c3p0 that added nothing into the movie.

My issue with Finn is he doesn't seem right for his position in the movie. Ignoring that the vast majority of his lines were quips, it never made sense to me that this trooper who had been trained since basically birth to fight just bitched out and ran yelling jokes the whole way.
Hes a massive step up from JarJar but hes still a bit odd in universe. This is coming from someone who likes him, but just thinks his writing doesn't make him a good fit. I'd have much prefered a more serious tone, a Stormtrooper struggling with the fact that he abandoned his fellow troopers. His brothers. No hesitation to gun them down. Quipping away as he guns down people who were potentially his friends. Its just dumb.

>>51499640
>>51500901
>Then why the big deal about not letting emotions and attachment cloud judgement?
The issue of love and attachment in Star Wars is honestly a peeve of mine.

Every bittersweet story of love and loss has had the same message. You can love someone, realize that the time you spent together was important and precious, but when they go, you find a way to make peace with that, cherish the memories you made together and keep them in your heart while moving forward. Doesn't mean you don't do everything ethical in your power to save/help them, but no one is omnipotent nor a god (at least not those this message is usually given to).

All it's saying is to not give into despair and use that connection as an excuse to self-destruct or commit unspeakable atrocities in the name of lost love. Easy enough to get viewers to accept this view when the loved one is already in the ground but try to do so when they're all still alive and suddenly accusations of being a heartless monster who shuns love and attachments start flying around. Most fans seem incapable of accepting this message and Anakin couldn't wrap is dumbass head around the concept either.

Don't know if the fault is with the viewers, the creators or both. 'If you love someone, let them go' can't be that hard to wrap your head around.

>>51501172

No, you're reaching. Ford maybe didn't put as much into his death scene as he maybe should have but he wasn't sleepwalking through the role, he played an older Han Solo who'd had a few screws come loose because he'd seen some really horrible shit and lost everything he fought and sacrificed for but had to go on anyway. I thought it was a really nice performance, especially when you had Indy 4 to compare it to and how they didn't even try to evolve the character to account for his aging beyond a few winks.

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>>51501274
You sound like reddit

>>51501264

I admit I would have preferred that to, but I think the scenes with Phasma implied pretty strongly that he had no real attachment for most of these people. I think those scenes made it relatively clear that his life as a trooper was miserable and isolated and probably involved a lot of bullying and hazing. The Trooper that died in the opening and traumatized him into finally acting was probably the only string that tied him to that place.

I mean, at the end of the day Finn's story is under-written (not POORLY written exactly, but excessively reliant on gleening a lot from too little screen time) and that's a big problem, I grant you that. But I don't think its totally unreasonable even if my personal preference would have been that more operatic Clone Trooper-esque tragic soldier story.

>>51501375
The dying trooper at the start was one of his friends from his squad (in the books)
Basically, he saw his friend die and ran. Which made sense. But then turning around and opening fire on troopers (both from the tie and on land) made no sense. He was shocked and sad to see someone die, then went on a killing spree in the next scene

>>51501274
That's kind of the point. Anakin is so wrapped up in his fear of losing his loved ones that he falls to the Dark Side to try and save his wife. He never learned how to let go because the Jedi don't teach that, only that you shouldn't connect in the first place.

>>51501416

It makes sense if he had the same level of resentment and hate for all the New Order troopers aside from his friend that he had for Phasma in that interrogation scene.

>>51501452
Yeah, but Anakin's a dumbass whose plan to prevent his wife's death included choking her to unconsciousness after having thrown his lot in with Force Satan and slaughtering children.

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>>51497800
>Sphere of Influence

How I visualize the Force re Dark/Light sides is like socializing at a party.

Discovering your Force sensitivity is being invited to your first party and you don't know anyone. For most people, they'll have difficulty socializing properly: their interactions will be cautious, unskilled; they will likely not make any bold strides (however with guidance/a wingman, you'll get the hang of it quicker).

The Dark side is alcohol. It makes things instantly easier, and it appears to have no downsides. As well, once you start to feel the effects and reap the benefits, you'll want to have more. Sure you can cut yourself off after a few drinks, but the more you drink the more fun you have! Again, with a good party-mentor, they can help you stay under control, but what if they're not around? What if your party mentor starts drinking?

And then, the next day: you're hungover, and all of your drinking has caught up with you as you learn about all the embarrassing, offensive things you said. So you don't drink at the next party, but never ended up learning how to socialize without being drunk. After a while, you realizing that just drinking is easier than re-writing years of nervousness/etc, if you don't have good self control or a good mentor.

It's not a perfect analogy, but I think it works well enough.

Ok, So, I'm making a Droid with Scout/Saboteur. Which career should I start with, and how do I best allocate EXP? Want the Scout for the "Pull Items out of Ass" abililty, and Saboteur for making things explode.

>>51501649
Oh, and I have 60 EXP besides what's given at Character Creation.

>>51501662
Pretty much just pump up your relevant characteristics as high as you can while also making sure to put some into Brawn and Willpower.

Why apparently do so many XWM players (who push around little plastic spaceships for ) somehow lack classic EU nerdcred to recognize and appreciate ships from novels or games which have been around 20+ years and probably been known to way more people than play XWM?

>>51501626
The analogy works better with hardcore addictive drugs, I think. Heavy use of alcohol is like lightly flirting with the Dark Side but pumping yourself full of some crazy shit feels amazing and the rush is beyond anything you've ever felt before. The only thing is that it all inevitably leads towards self-destruction.

>>51499404

SUPER HERO STATIC SHOCK!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mlK4mIUNYk

>>51501769
Damn I'm getting Nostalgia.

>>51501715
Yeah, that's probably more accurate. I went with alcohol because I have pretty robust experience with drinking way too much a lot, and not a lot of experience with drugs besides weed. Except I guess acid, but that's not really applicable either.

>>51501700
Strange, around my area, most of the X-wing players are EU fans(chances are, if you're playing in a game store, you probably know quite a bit about Stars Wars EU)

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>>51501281
>No man, you just don't see he was acting out all these qualities to his character that were never mentioned or displayed or alluded to.
>I'll come up with a bunch of things that must have been true to justify the bad acting.
>It's you that's reaching, not me!

Sure anon. Justify it however you like but that death scene was more of a formality than a dramatic moment to a really large portion of the people that saw the movie. Maybe it impacted you because you were drawing up reasons it went down the way it did in your mind but those things aren't in the film, or any of the films. It's just you playing tricks on yourself.

>>51501843

I've just been hearing grumblings about lack of iconic ships in "the meta" from the community, like on podcasts and stuff, and it seems kind of weird to me.

Setting aside the fact that FFG has lately been glued to ships appearing in new films or Rebels (which gets between like 1-2 million viewers per episode so that's hardly small time) stuff like the Jumpmaster has been around 20+ years and mentioned in what I thought were pretty popular works.

Plus, y'know, As and Bs never exactly got a lot of screen time in a movie either. That's always struck me as a weird complaint. They get featured more in games and novels, but y'know, that's also where stuff like the E-Wing come from.

I just found out that "YUB NUB" means "seeding day" in Hmong. Is this a mere coincidence, or do Ewoks all speak Hmong?

>>51501917

Are you a fucking idiot or something? The loss of his son, his marriage, his ship and his best friend were never mentioned or alluded to? That stuff is the whole fucking movie.You may not think "He's gone a bit eccentric and weird," is the "right," character development from that trauma, but that's just like, your opinion man.

Also, I wasn't talking about the death scene, I was talking about the performance of the character through the movie as a whole. I SAID the death scene wasn't as good as it could have been. That's the directors fault. The rest of the movie was fine.

Is there a PDF of the Soldier book that isn't garbage?

>>51502006
The one you buy.

>>51501935
what iconic ships are they talking about?

The only ones I hear about are those from the EU, namely the Thrawn trilogy.

>>51502006
Stop being a shitty poorfag and support FFG by buying the book

>>51502113
Dreadnought for Armada when?

>>51501935
>I've just been hearing grumblings about lack of iconic ships in "the meta" from the community, like on podcasts and stuff, and it seems kind of weird to me.
I think when people say "iconic ships" they mean X-wings, Y-wings, YT-1300s, TIE fighters, TIE Advanceds maybe, the ships that were in the movies. Personally I've been seeing a lot of Millenium Falcons in my local meta but outside of the occasional Biggs the rest of them have been pretty much non-existent.

>>51502154
>>51502113

Well, in one specific case, they explicitly mentioned As and Bs, hence the final commentary in my post. I don't deny anybody their love of a ship, but, I mean they didn't exactly get a lot of original coverage.

Probably most of the complaints are geared maybe at regional winning lists or other popular lists on the web (where I hear this stuff) where, y'know stuff like Defenders, Decimators, Corran Horn, YT-2400, K-Wings and Jumps are still fairly highly trending.

Scum Ys are making a comeback though, and lots of people run a couple of the different X pilots (I want to say Kanan+Biggs was in top 4 at the Mustafar Open? If not it was top 8). Falcons are decently good like with Rey now.

>>51502285
wtf. it's a tournament meta, people will runs what's powerful, not what's fluffy.

That said, damn it the t-65 is so much worse than the t-70 in that game. So much worse.
The t-70 gets a fair bit of tournament play, and I can see that increasing.

>>51502457

Interesting. I hear from a lot of people the T-70 is still a bit too costly and fragile for what it's worth (and personally I also find them on the expensive side, but my rebel collection is limited), even with good pilots. Black One is really good though, so it has some legs. HSCP and soon Kylo Ren are ruining Poe's day though.

The classic X still has decently top tier named pilots for their cost though it could really use something to even out its efficiency.

>>51502512
the problem with the high PS aces in t-65 is they have no movement actions to take advantage of their high PS.

Poe is really good, and Nien Numb has a lot of play in him. The tech from HoR do a lot to make them better.

How is kylo ren supposed to ruin Poe?

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>>51498259
>>51498373
I looked and can't find anything.

However, were I to invent one, I'd make it a Force tradition native to Zeltros that melds sex, the Force, and their pheromones into a single, unifying spiritual meld. It's all about heightening intimacy between partners and building or healing relationships with others.

Call it "The Scetic Vetra" or "Harem Bey" or something.

>>51502285
how do we make the XYAB wings great again?

>>51501945
C3PO does say "primitive dialect," not "primitive language." That means somewhere out there he was programmed with a less primitive dialect of the same language.

So where did the Sith Purebloods go between TOR and the OT?

>>51502607

Shield regeneration doesn't help when you can face up through shields, especially if it's blinded pilot or PS 0. You could equip determination to counter, but then you lose VI or PTL or whatever your EPT of choice is. Combine with HSCP and Gunner (such as on a Kylo-RAC build, which gives easy Critical damage generation) and poor Poe will lose his focus, can't regen the damage and will lose attacks or drop to the bottom of the PS order. HSCP+Gunner RAC is already a non-zero list, so expect so see a few of these tearing it up.

>>51502685

Xs need a title or some other unique benefit to make them worth their point value. Ys need more pilots (with EPTs). As will have to wait until FFG solves the 2 ATK swarm issue (Swarm Leader helps), and Bs probably just need more upgrades to slap on. Or maybe errata E2 to not take the Mod slot.

>>51502763
should Ys get a movable arc like the shadow caster, bit more punch than the normal turret?
having variants of the Y-wing that perform incredibly differently fits the fluff too

>>51502685
>X-wings
Price cuts across the board, T-70s are I think close to the right cost for what they are and T-65s are a hell of a lot less capable for being only 3 points cheaper.
>Y-wings
I want to say just more uniques and reprints of the olds to have elite talents but it would probably take more than that.
>A-wings and B-wings
Fuck if I know, A's seem alright to me and B's just confuse me.

>>51495696
>light side jedi
>use the force to kill enemies who refuse to yield
That's not how Jedi work anon, a Jedi would use the Force to defeat an enemy non-lethally and then bring him to the proper authorities.

I could see a Jedi using the Force as a peaceful method of euthanasia, giving them a painless, instant death as a means of not having them go through pain. But using the Force as a weapon? No, that's not the Jedi way.

But if you're not a Jedi, do whatever you want, we need more non-Jedi Forcers about. Bonus points if their beliefs fall outside the whole Light/Dark side thing, those Jedi and Sith are really too damn obsessed with that.

>>51502746
The Legends reason is that the Sith breeded with humans so much they died out. I personally think that that is utter bullshit so I like to have the old Sith around as an incredibly rare and isolationist race who just fuck about somewhere in Wild Space.

>>51502784

Y's already have a title to double-tap with a Turret, which is pretty boss. That was the old "Stresshog" formation, and god forbid FFG comes out with interesting turrets which aren't TLT (though Dorsal on a Y-wing could work). Really they just need the ability to take EPTs natively.

Hell, then Deadeye-Plasma Torp Ys could be a thing. Only not as shite as U-Boats because that's a really gross combination of upgrades+dial+chassis.

>>51502784
Y-Wing LongProbe when?

>>51502858

System slots would be a god-send to ailing, early-gen ships like the X and Y. Probably cut a little into the juju of the B and E.

But then again, taking FCS isn't a role that's just "boy, I'd really like some goddamn action efficiency". Also, Enhanced Scopes Y-Wings with Bomb Loadout and Extra Munitions.

>>51502685
X's need a title or just a little more oomph, they're good but they're too many eggs in the proverbial basket (And they've been hit by power creep). Y need some more damage mitigation OR more damage potential, a couple of Y's with ion turrets make great distraction / consistency but they're hard to actually fit into a list. A's need to murder better and faster, and there's no good way to do that without fucking up a lot else in the game. B wings need the ability to pick what they're doing better and make up for their points costs easier.

IMHO. I'm pretty shit at the game, though, so...

>>51502763
Pretty sure you are ready that rule wrong.
Also bb8 Poe can just arc dodge.

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>>51502923

No, Kylo totally goes through shield. Critical Damage is an uncanceled critical icon - so the condition assigns you a Faceup damage card immediately, regardless of shields.

And The Decimator is the Empire's one PWT.

>>51502817
>Yoda throwing shit at Dooku
>Lightsaber throw
The Jedi aren't pacifists. They're space samurai who refrain from unnecessary killing, but there are some motherfuckers who simply need to die. There are also occasions where nonlethal options are straight-up unfeasible. If he is behind enemy lines, stuck in the middle of a contested warzone, an enemy of the state, etc., then he has no reasonable expectation of being able to subdue, sedate, transport, and prosecute a foe. If the target is a Sith, not the target of a Revan Plan, and unwilling to undergo redemption, then fuck it. Ice the son of a bitch. That's one less shithead in the galaxy. Same goes for Inquisitors, Abeloth, spiders, and mine crabs. Especially mine crabs.

>>51502994
Autothrusters.
And if it's that good you've now killed all ace lists and all other large ship lists. And I doubt you have.

>>51503046

Well, specifically it eats Poe because Hotshot Co-pilot makes him lose the focus he wants to keep. And then Gunner lets you attack again if needed after tokens are stripped.

We'll see how bad it kills Aces because as noted, Determination is a hard counter, but otherwise Rebel Regen is in a bad spot. I doubt it'll actually eat other large ships you still need to chew through the Hull, though two ship lists might get it pretty bad. On the other hand, hey, generics will be cool again.

But seriously though, look out for Kylo - people will definitely be trying him.

>>51503105
That combo works on anyone who relies on tokens.
It's also very expensive, and requires your action to pull it off.

Stacking up the critical effects is huge for large ships, if critical effects didn't matter you wouldn't have brought them up when talking about Poe, any your skipping more shields than you are on Poe.

So AoR question:
if trying to use leadership to get a crowed swayed to follow the PC's in attacking an imperial garrison, what would be a good way to determine the difficulty of that? this is the Corellian system if that matters

>>51503512

The degree of local unrest and how stout the defenses they're up against are. The tougher the opposition, the dice go up, and more the locals are on the verge of going up like a firework, the dice go down. Pretty simple.

Recent events would certainly be a factor. Recent crackdowns or atrocities by local authorities would make it easier most likely, though it might also make it harder if the locals have actually be cowed, say if a local hero stood up and was publicly executed for his defiance.

What if any reputation you have with the locals would also influence the roll.

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>>51502817
Where do you fucking idiots come from? The jedi are not super heroes for fucks sake. They don't have a no kill rule, though peaceful they are not weak. Jedi have fought and killed in every single galactic war since the beginning of the republic. No they don't use the force for attack but they will use it to defend themselves. Do not mistake peacefulness for weakness.

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>>51495473
I love how Star Wars Edge of the Empire "solved" the jedi balance issue by not including jedi as a PC option. It's a cop-out, by untalented designers who really should take an AIDS pill and walk off the edge of a skyscraper

>>51503867

>FaD

>>51503790
>They don't have a no kill rule
>Literally suggests euthanasia

>>51503790

Hey, they're not the one's trying to invent Lightside Instant Murder Powers. Blame the edgelords who want to be GREY JEDI and shoot lightning without falling.

Its very simple: if you're using the force itself to do lethal damage to someone, you're doing a darkside thing. Its not rocket science. If you need to kill a guy, use the fucking sword or throw a rock or push him off a cliff. Chokes and shit are evil.

If you have to debate if the thing you're doing with the force is evil or not, you're almost 100% trying to rationalize something obviously evil and should knock it off and take your conflict points.

>>51503015

If a Jedi kills, its because it was strictly necessary. Anakin made it clear he was wrong to kill fucking Sith Lord Dooku who killed billions with his interstellar civil war the moment he became defenseless. Dooku didn't have to yield, once he was at the Jedi's mercy that mercy had to be shown or he was doing a Darkside.

Fucks sake, Mace Windu, Part Time Darksider, tried to spare PALPATINE until he started throwing Force Lightning. If the flow of the battle does not cause your opponent to die, you spare them once the fight is done or you're falling to some degree. Pacifism has nothing to do with it.

Which of the seven main forms is the least useful/viable in your opinion?

>>51504149
Form 4 (Ataru) always seemed kinda weird to me. I get the idea of a quick/acrobatic form, but I feel using the force to flip around isn't the best usage of it and is just there because of the cool factor. And then you get exhausted quickly because you pointlessly flipped around some? Seems like a bad deal to me.

>>51504236

Ataru is supposed to allow you to take down a vastly superior foe by using athleticism and agility to overwhelm their defenses and strike a decisive blow before you run out of gas. Its the Size Matters Not saber style. That's why it has that "get exhausted quickly," factor, its to balance that in theory it could let you beat an opponent you could never otherwise beat.

The least useful one has to be whatever the dueling form is. It predates blasters so it doesn't have any moves for deflecting ranged fire. It may be superior for fighting other saber/melee people, but the weakness of being extra vulnerable to ranged attacks seem entirely not worth it,

>>51504236
My personal headcanon is that the difference in fighting styles between the OT and prequels is because the force was clouded in the PT, but not in the OT. The original trilogy's lightsaber-fighting was more restrained, and sometimes involved long pauses between individual strikes, which to me indicates a heavy use of precognition- most of the fight is happening in the duelists' minds, as they play out thousands of options in the Force. It's in the prequels, where the sheer magnitude of the impending events clouds vision, that precognition is less viable and thus combat defaults to the more acrobatic style.

>>51504149
If you interpret the philosophy of Soresu as, "Defend until your opponent gets tired and only attack once he gets sloppy," then it's Soresu. That's a retarded way to go about fighting.

>>51499679

I'm pretty sure it was significantly more than a few days. The film doesnt make that clear, but if i remember rightly the novel says it was a good few months whilst the Falcon flew from Anoat to Bespin without a hyperdrive.

>>51496082
Yeah, it's a shame the rebellion killed that guy.

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>>51504363
>>51496082

>>51503867

>there's an entire book devoted to jedi
>'lmao scrubs didnt include jedi in the book about smugglers and bounty hunters'

>>51502620
>Harem Bey
I see what you did there.

>>51504363

Leigh Matthews lives on in the hearts of everyone

>>51503867
>Force-sensitivity is a character option, even in EotE and Age of Rebellion
>Force and Destiny exists
>all three are compatible, you could play MUH JEDI in an EotE game if you can convince your GM to let you take an F&D career
I think it might just be you that needs to take the pill and practice your diving

>>51495994
It's purified cortosis that shuts shit down. Regular cortosis-weave doesn't, just absorbs the energy far better.

>>51503682
Considering it's Corellia, executing a local hero would only rile them up even more. Corellian humans are hot headed sons of bitches.

>>51504075
>if you're not a out of touch idiot with no-kill rule in a war you're an edgelord
No see, that's the retarded notion that you're either one extreme or the other.

>Blame the edgelords who want to be GREY JEDI and shoot lightning without falling.
You mean how Luke force chokes a gammorean to death without any problem before a casual conversation.

>>51504291
Your headcanon is garbage

>>51503961
>euthanasia doesn't kill
>>51504075
How is pushing someone into a wall or cutting them in half with a lightsaber not evil but snapping their neck is?

>>51506323
Using the force for any harmful act is the first step on a slippery slope that is the Dark Side.

A jedi only delivers a killing blow with the lightsaber if all other paths of ending a conflict has been exhausted.

>>51499628
no

>>51506919
Where is this stated or mentioned anywhere. This seems to be a personal headcanon that you believe in.

>>51507137
>Using the force for any harmful act is the first step on a slippery slope that is the Dark Side.
"A Jedi uses the force for knowledge and Defence, never for Attack." plus a multitude of sources i can't be arsed to dig up.

>A jedi only delivers a killing blow with the lightsaber if all other paths of ending a conflict has been exhausted.
in the book "The Jedi Path", Lightsaber chapter, Points of Contact page 76-77.

>>51507275
>Ohhhh, Great Warrior? War not make one great.
Jedi Master Yoda, Star Wars Episode V

>>51506156
The whole point of RotJ is that Luke is becoming more and more like Vader, wearing all black, got prosthetics, and choking dudes.

>>51507275
The rpg isn't canon and never was canon
>>51507300
That doesn't prove anything other than fighting is a last resort which I agree.

>>51507328
The Jedi Path isn't an RPG sourcebook. It's an in-universe guidebook.

>>51506323
Wielding the force in an offensive manner requires you to wield it with hatred, anger, and killing intent. Using it this way makes it more difficult to use it in a defensive manner, meaning you will rely on it more and more until that's all you can do.

Also, a lightsaber can kill someone with very little effort and energy. One slash it all it takes, but actively choking someone to death with the force means you'll have to maintain that mindset until you finish the job. You don't need to wield rage and anger to kill someone with a lightsaber, but you do with the force.

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So hutts used to be a warrior culture that fought all the time long long time ago. Does that mean that hutts looked different during that time? Where they more active and athletic? Maybe leaner instead of obese? Seems kind of interesting to me.

>>51507463
Take a look at Grakkus from the nu-canon comics, or maybe Beldorion from Legends.

Grakkus still is chunky, but his arms are pretty solid muscle.

IIRC Beldorion was slimmer than average for a Hutt, though still not exactly svelte.

>>51507463
As I understand it, hutts see being fat to the point of physical disability as a status symbol, because you're so successful you don't have to do shit.

>>51507463
They used slave armies, the Nikto have been their minions for thousands of years.
Although I made a PC with that idea in mind for an Old Republic game. He got fucking silly by the end of the campaign.

>>51507515
This. Hutts see physical activity as beneath them, although those that actually lower themselves to do so are absolutely terrifying.

>>51507515
This used to be true of humans.

>>51507599
still is in some cultures.

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>>51507515
Yeah they think that now after their civil war but did they think that during their warrioe culture phase?
>>51507528
Wouldn't you think that in order for the hutts to get those slave armies they would have to be strong enough to conquer them right?

>>51507692
Well in legends the hutts personally conquered several worlds and enslaved the inhabitants, but that was thousands of years before the movies, maybe even thousands of years before the mandalorian wars.

>>51507692
The Hutts used a cubic buttload of hovertech and powerarmor. You'd be surpised how fast a Hutt in powerarmor is

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>>51507722
Hutts in powerarmor now that is a sight I would pay to see.

>>51500022
literally anyone with common sense? anybody else watch an organization based around 'peace and serenity' immediately become generals of a massive slave army? and not even bat an eye, or fail at doing so? they did pretty well for literally just finding out what was going on.

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>>51507790
That'll be $3.50.

>>51507814
Don't get me started on the Jedi somehow being the only people qualified to lead armies, a veteran admiral and a people literally bred for fighting wouldn't give up their command to a 15 year old girl who's only qualification is being a member of a supposedly peaceful religion. Fuck you Filoni, fuck you.

>>51507833
Holy shit they even have shoulder cannons. I think I know what my next character is going to be.

>>51507814
>not even bat an eye
Obi-Wan was suspicious as fuck. I don't know what nucanon's stance on the issue is, but the Legends OJO were, for the most part, very troubled about having to lead a clone army. And of course, there's Rahm Kota, who was incredibly paranoid about the issue, and rightly so.

>>51507856
In the 3dcg TCW movie Rex tells Ahsoka "experience trumps rank" or something along that vein. Only later after they've learned to trust her judgement do they listen to her.

>>51507887
The armor also has integrated repulsorlifts.

>>51507896
but they had to, because that was the only way they could maintain some control and possibly know what was going on.

it actually made a fair bit of sense, if poorly presented in the movies.

>>51507856
Because Obi-Wan was a general as told in the original trilogy, so all the Jedi had to be generals. Like how Jabba was leader of an influential criminal organization so all Hutts had to be gangsters.

>>51507887
>>51507528 here, I did this. There's a suit in Lords of Nal Hutta that is effectively this. Eliminates the only real downside to playing a Hutt (shit-all manoevres) and if modified with stuff like yummy cortosis turns them into a floating tank. Costs insane amounts of creds, though.

>>51498770
For simplification, it's a Gunnery Corps minion group using one of the Barrage actions.

>>51508136
I believe that all he said was that he and Anakin fought together in the Clone Wars, never once did he mention that they were generals.

I've just re-watched that scene and Obi Wan only said he was a Jedi Knight who fought in the Clone Wars, and that Anakin was "the best star pilot in the galaxy and a cunning warrior."

>>51508357
Leia mentioned that he was a General, as I recall.

>>51508415
Yeah, her message starts off calling him General Kenobi.

>>51508415
>>51508423
Oh yeah, how the fuck did I forget that?

>>51507814
Curious how Palpatine would have spun it if Jedi would have just gone "We aren't soldiers." and minded their own business.

Of course.. I think it was in Book of the Sith where he mentions that public would have turned against the Jedi if they had been passive in conflict.

>>51508754
Idk, it's weird that you didn't see it in the very scene you watched, but excusable as you were paying attention to Obi-wan's lines and not everybody elses, I assume?

>>51508808
Well in Legends, the Jedi were a Warrior Monk order before the Ruusan Reformation, so that would give a great reason why they would be expected to go to war.

>>51508808

Palpatine, through some puppet within the Republic, would have painted the Jedi as reckless and irresponsible. Likely taking the angle that by sending a Jedi to spy on the Genosians, they provoked the Seperatists into war. Their failure to take responsibility for their actions, by washing their hands of the conflict, would be justification for Palpatine to order the dismantling of the Order.

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>>51507814
>>51508808
The Jedi were peacekeepers more than anything else. The first time we see them in the timeline they're on ambassadors on a diplomatic mission. Now, when the most unimaginative man in the movie business thinks of peacekeepers, who does he think of?

>>51497866
A penance stare type of force powered killing. To see how badly they have perverted the living force and if it is bad enough their life is foreit

>>51509818
They'd make a neat auxiliary to the Imperial Army

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>>51495473
How do I go about making a Dark Empire I and II game (OLD EU Canon) without making it "oh shit the emperor is reborn run!" the entire game.

The Party is ex Rebels and Imperials sick of the war.

They've thrown in their lot with a businessman PC and are doing VIP protection for a young heiress on coruscant when it get sacked by the Dark Empire.

What else can I do to make the game exciting

>>51504075
>Its very simple: if you're using the force itself to do lethal damage to someone, you're doing a darkside thing. Its not rocket science. If you need to kill a guy, use the fucking sword or throw a rock or push him off a cliff. Chokes and shit are evil.
So it's irredeemably evil to kill someone by using the force to apply pressure and restrict their airflow, but not to apply pressure to bash their brains in with a rock or splatter their whole body at the bottom of a cliff?

>If you have to debate if the thing you're doing with the force is evil or not, you're almost 100% trying to rationalise something obviously evil and should knock it off and take your conflict points.
And I could say the exact same thing of all the shit that you are arguing is ok because of vague arbitrary separation.

>>51507400
>cutting someone in half with a laser sword doesn't involve killing intent because you don't even have to think about it or put in much effort but pressing on someone's throat is evil angry hate
wut
I mean I understand the point you're trying to make but it's complete bullshit.
Cutting someone up with a sword even if it's a laser-sword is very violent even if you try to romanticise it as "one slash" while asphyxiation can actually be considered a humane way to kill if done carefully. I mean with enough practice you could probably focus even more to push on major arteries and make them black out almost instantly or just snap their neck.

>>51510310
>And I could say the exact same thing of all the shit that you are arguing is ok because of vague arbitrary separation.
arbitrary is not meaningless, by establishing the distinction we establish meaning.

Tribute to Wittgenstein over, if your throwing something or pushing someone, the intent should always be to disable without killing if possible.
But sometimes there is no way to be sure to disable without the possibility of killing.

If you are asphyxiating someone, and you maintain it after they pass out, you are choosing to do more than the minimum necessary to disable. No one would be shutting you down if you wanted force techniques to render someone unconcious.

As for neck snapping, you're developing and practicing a technique that has the sole purpose of killing. While force pushing can be used to defend or disable.

new guy btw

>>51510440
>No one would be shutting you down if you wanted force techniques to render someone unconscious.
We see Vader force choke several times with non-lethal intent, but a previous anon has demanded that
>Chokes and shit are evil.

>>51510033
Have them run into imps ex-squad
Run into rebels ex-squad

offer trading to the business guy from the empire, let them think about morality
Lots of assassins coming for the heiress
Heiress herself wants to leave and explore the galaxy

Ask your players what they want to do. Whether its fight the empire, explore, trade or whatever

>>51510310
The difference is between "reach out with Force, find person's presence therein and connect with it, dismantle them while their very life essence struggles against you" and "reach out to rock, rock has no presence and no strong feelings about being moved, throw rock on path towards head."

It's not that cutting someone down or battering them with objects is somehow more moral or free of violent thought, it's that killing your victim with the Force is a process of smothering them in the spiritual plane and thus requires an overwhelming mass of genuine emotional hostility - a.k.a. the very essence of the Dark Side.

>>51510509
>We see Vader force choke several times with non-lethal intent, but a previous anon has demanded that
>Chokes and shit are evil.
Vader is still doing it to HURT people, not to merely disable them. That's still plenty dark side
This is the crucial difference ro what luke did with his foray into force choking; he was using the force to essentially apply a chokehold, not to hurt or kill antone

>>51510509

Vader chokes with the intent to violate someone's personal feelings of safety, intimidate, brutalize, traumatize and generally hurt.

There's no such thing as kind gentle peacekeeping CHOKING THE SHIT OUT OF SOMEONE. Choking is a malicious and aggresive act. If you do it with the Force, its the dark side. Stop trying to pretend you don't just want to do obvious Darkside shit with no penalties.

>>51510684
>>51510580
You two seem to have a critical disagreement.

>>51510707
>Vader is still doing it to HURT people, not to merely disable them. That's still plenty dark side
>Vader chokes with the intent to violate someone's personal feelings of safety, intimidate, brutalize, traumatize and generally hurt.

I don't think they do champ.

>>51510684
I think the Bind power actually does require burning a darkside point to turn it into force choke, or just generate conflict. So you are probably right. most overtly offensive uses of the force tend to be 'bad' I think 'force throw' is about as offensive as you can get with the force without generating conflict. probably why most jedi carry lightsabers, so that when shit hits the fan, they can dish it out without having to rely on the dark side. Probably already mentioned, I'll admit I'm jumping into this conversation mid-way.

>>51510748
>There's no such thing as kind gentle peacekeeping CHOKING THE SHIT OUT OF SOMEONE.
>but it's okay when Luke does it
They absolutely do.

>>51509915
>UN blue helmets
>Neat
Don't they have an abysmal track record and reputation?

>>51510440
The anon I was responding to was saying choking is evil right out, if you're considering stopping once they're passed out then that's even less evil.

Still, though, I'd argue that snapping someone's neck could be better than chopping them to death with a laser. I mean the jedi flail around with their swords and hit or miss all manner of shit so you can hardly take it for granted that they always make a perfect painless "single strike" to kill enemies with no effort or intention of killing like the other anon was arguing.
>As for neck snapping, you're developing and practicing a technique that has the sole purpose of killing. While force pushing can be used to defend or disable.
It's not too much of a stretch to imagine other uses for using the force to suddenly snap something with sudden force rather than just pulling/pushing and I still argue it could be more humane than the sword which the jedi must already training to kill with to make these perfect deadly execution strikes.

>>51510684
>There's no such thing as kind gentle peacekeeping CHOKING THE SHIT OUT OF SOMEONE. Choking is a malicious and aggresive act.
Moreso than chopping them the fuck in half with a laser and hoping they die instantly with no pain?
And using the force to help guide your sword in chopping them in half isn't dark side for reasons?

>>51510826
Yes, plus yuuge correlation with child prostitution and other sex trafficking, but this probably isn't the right board.

>>51510826
It really depends. They've done some great work, but more often than not they're hindered by poor command/political red tape. See the Siege of Jadotville for a good example of the weirdness of the blue helmets.

>>51510760
Certainly not enough for you to claim victory.

>>51510963
>victory
You what?
Vader was obviously an extreme example, but they expressed a fundamental disagreement over whether force choking is always evil all the time.

>>51510983
Wait aren't you the guy who wanted to do the choking in the first place?

>>51511012
No.

>>51510838
effecting living things with a force presence isn't the same as effecting nonliving things.
So your 'general snapping technique', won't do the work.

Or to bring in Dresden Files parallel, Wardens carry swords and guns for a reason. Unlike jedi they aren't committed to avoiding conflict, but they cannot use magic to directly kill another human being without fucking over their soul.
Dresden can use his force push to throw human beings, but only when he doesn't think it's very likely to kill them.

Using the force is different than using your fist. It's a basic premise of the universe. If you want a different ontology, play in a different universe.

>>51511096
>jedi are committed to avoiding conflict
But that's completely wrong. Jedi are committed to resolving conflict.

>>51510881

Swords in fiction have an inherent connotation of nobility and honor. The Lightsaber is not clumsy or random like a blaster, but is an elegant weapon from a more civilized age.

Yeah, if you're thinking about it like a metagaming fuck, its barbaric to chop off limbs with a laser sword. But Star Wars is a universe of weighty metaphor and allegory. A noble knight using his legendary magic blade to have a fated duel against an warrior of darkness because DESTINY has a Good connotation. Using a magic spell to grab someone by the neck, hold them helpless and snap the bones like a twig so the guy dies a horrible fucking death that they couldn't possibly defend themselves against should have a pretty obvious connotation.

If you have to ask if a given act is evil or not in Star Wars, either you didn't think it through enough or you're probably trying, on a conscious level or not, to rationalize so you can have the result you want instead of the result that is painfully obvious to anyone thinking objectively about the metaphorical implications.

>>51507463
>So hutts used to be a warrior culture that fought all the time long long time ago.
actually, are there any cultural throwbacks? Hutts that might still have some of that warrior "why should I make deals with them when I can just bonk them on the head and take what I want" mentality?

>>51511012
I'm the anon who restarted the argument with >>51510310

My point was more just calling out the inconsistency and romanticised bullshit of describing chopping someone up with a laser as some beautiful effortless action guided by the force with no killing intent while other equally or potentially less violent methods are somehow using the force for evil killing anger hate.

>>51511096
>effecting living things with a force presence isn't the same as effecting nonliving things.
>So your 'general snapping technique', won't do the work
So there's some enormous fundamental difference between force-pushing a person or a crate that requires completely independent skills? Do you have a source for that? I'm not exactly an encyclopaedia of all lore myself.

I'd still make an argument that it's somewhat bullshit though with how some like the original anon I replied to talk about the using the force to guide the sword to the point that it's an effortless action without killing intent.

>Dresden can use his force push to throw human beings, but only when he doesn't think it's very likely to kill them.
Now discounting that's a different universe with different rules that REALLY starts to make stuff murky with arguing intent and exactly what causes death.
I mean is a jedi in the clear if they're just really oblivious and keep accidentally pushing enemies into deadly hazards?
How about obi wan cutting off anakin's arm and legs and leaving him by some lava to catch on fire and slowly burn to death? That's better than force-choking him out?
I know the original clone wars cartoon is dubious canon but how about when mace windu force-crushes general grievous?

>>51511662
>dubious canon
It was never really hard canon to begin with, and it's explicitly not canon now.

>A single-player EotE campaign in which the player is a private investigator in the Coruscant undercity, very much inspired by Jedi Twilight, Sam Spade, and Chungking Mansions.

Could this be done well?

>>51511662
>How about obi wan cutting off anakin's arm and legs and leaving him by some lava to catch on fire and slowly burn to death? That's better than force-choking him out?
Obi wan was slipping and having a dark side moment when he did that. Like, really bad

>>51511662
I was just giving another example where it's clearly setup that using material tools (sword/lightsabers) and using magic/the force are treated as differetn things, not because of our own defined morality, but the ontology of their world.

In our world magic and the force don't exist, so we don't get to define their ontology based on our worlds. In the worlds that are given the force and magic are such that using them with the specific intent to kill is different in those universes than using material weapons.

It does not matter if you feel morally these are more human than using a blaster, sword, whatever. We are opperating in a different, but established ontology. Your argument needs to work from within that ontology, otherwise you are only saying you don't like that ontology, rather than establishing a truth within it.

And direct act of the force/magic versus using the force/magic to causes an effect that then causes harm is also a distinction in those ontology. It doesn't matter if that's a symantic argument within your moral framework, because this isn't actual a question of whether the actions are moral according to framework. It's a question of the effect those actions have within a phenomena that does not exist in our universe, but follows rules established by that universe.

Using the force to directly cause harm with the intent of suffering or death, causes the activation of the darkside. This is the ontology of the force int his setting. Your moral question are irrelevant.

>>51511145
>The Lightsaber is not clumsy or random like a blaster, but is an elegant weapon from a more civilized age.
But lightsabers actually are pretty clumsy and random based on their user even with the force helping, similar force-guiding for a blaster should reasonably be less clumsy and random.

>Yeah, if you're thinking about it like a metagaming fuck, its barbaric to chop off limbs with a laser sword.
Nice shitpost but it's hardly "metagaming" to consider having limbs hacked off more barbaric than just being shot.
Yeah there's a lot of symbolism and allegory but that doesn't mean you can selectively throw all logic and internal consistency out the window whenever you want.

>Using a magic spell to grab someone by the neck, hold them helpless and snap the bones like a twig so the guy dies a horrible fucking death that they couldn't possibly defend themselves against should have a pretty obvious connotation.
Yeah when you describe it with lots of emotional appeals it sounds pretty bad but then if we apply the same standards to magically disarming someone so they can't fight back and guiding your magic sword to hack and burn apart their flesh and bones in a horrific death you'll just start making excuses that it's heroic destiny buzzword buzzword.

>>51511780
Not the same anon you're talking to, but I don't know if Ob-Wan was having a Dark side moment as much as an "oh shit, the person I love the most in the galaxy has destroyed everything we ever worked to save, but I can't bring myself to kill him for real"

By not killing Anakin, I think Obi-Wan was being less Dark side than leaving him; to have killed him would have been an act of hate (by Star Wars' bizarre morality). It's the same as Luke not just killing the balls off the Emperor or Vader when he could have because ven though it would have been good for the galaxy, it would havebeen out of hate/fear.

>>51511780
iirc, he sense palp coming and knew he needed to get Padme out of there right then.
It was less wanting to leave Anakin to suffer, and more not being able to do anything about it.

>>51511831
A big reason why Jedi's use a light saber is distance. You have to be very close to a target to kill them. You have to be basking in their living force. You have to feel the distinct connection sever in front of you when you cut them down.
The idea is when you feel death like that you want to avoid it.
Generally, you should either disarm your target or kill them in one blow. You dont keep hacking if your a jedi

>>51511662
The fundamental difference is using the Force to act on an inanimate object versus acting on a sentient being, which has its own set of desires echoing in the Force that must be overridden in your efforts to end their life. The Force is a spiritual magic sustained by living things, and consciously turning it against its source is a violation of its base nature.

How many times has your bait been copy pasted? I should probably start ignoring it.

>>51511833
>>51511835
He could have tried to bring the mostly disabled semi-conscious guy with him instead of leaving him to burn, they immediately headed to a hospital anyway.

>>51511863
Where do you guys get this rediculous headcanon from?

>>51511893
It was an extremely emotionally charged situation, one like which I imagine no one on this board has come close to experiencing. It's easy to say "he should have done this, or he should have done that" but really, I don't think anyone here can come close to understanding Obi-Wan's position.

>>51511881
The force isn't magic first of all. Second of all every thing you have said has been headcanon you made up. It doesn't help that Star Wars itself has been entirely inconsistent on the subject.

>>51511918
>head cannon

Legends now.
Medstar series. About Barriss Offee. She explains it to a mercenary who enjoys killing to say why she doesn't want to fight him.
She is a force healer though, so her connection might be different. She mentions that this was explained to her by her master though.

>>51511948
How is the force not magic? Outside of wordplay, it very literally does impossible things with the help of mystic energy

the power of apparently influencing the course of events by using mysterious or supernatural forces
sounds like the force to me

>>51511863
Ok that sounds fine but it's kinda giving me some mixed messages with some of the other stuff that has been posted.
Guiding your sword with the force to kill someone when necessary is ok because you're close and connecting with their living force to feel the full impact of your actions and understand the full consequences BUT killing them with the force guiding something other than a lightsaber or directly applying pressure to kill them with the force is bad because of how you're connecting with their living force?

Obviously disarming or incapacitating them if possible would be more moral which could be best achieved by a something like a controlled force choke or even just restraining someone with the force until you can get handcuffs on them although that might not always be viable.

>>51511831
>but then if we apply the same standards to magically disarming someone so they can't fight back and guiding your magic sword to hack and burn apart their flesh and bones in a horrific death
What the fuck are you on about? Jedi won't kill a disarmed opponent, it's one of their major fucking things