EDH/Commander General

1st for nekusar

>>51491135
Cuckusar, the Bullraiser

>>51491069
>"Unofficial, but has GOAT search interface"
Why is the OP still not listing combodeck.net is beyond me.

Firet for bosh over slobad

How do I upgrade the jeleva precon on a budget? Go the storm route or runechanters pike or what? So far all I am sure of is aetherflux reservoir

Are there any cards similar to firebreathing in green at the uncommon/common level?

As in, a permanent you can dump mana into that gives +X or whatever to a creature?

Or, are there any good manasinks in green, again at common/uncommon?

>>51491526
Doomsday

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>>51491586
magiccards.info
1st question:
c!g mana:x
t:artifact mana:x
t:land mana:x
c!g o:{x}
t:artifact o:{x}
t:land o:{x}

>>51491652
ooo. this i can jive with

>>51491586
Killer Bees, if you want a creature version.

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>>51491526
Play assorted spells, eventually win by Neverending Torment+Enter the Infinite.

>>51491586
Does it really need to be common/uncommon?

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>>51492236
>>51492228
And pic related come to mind but both are rare.

>>51492250
Killer Bees was printed as an uncommon, I use him as the Commander of my pauper deck. Stop looking at the oldest/most expensive version of shit.

>>51492326
No I meant Ursapine and Unyaro were rares.

>>51492339
Oh. Nvm.

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>>51491586
Another one, also a rare though.

I'm in the mood for a spellslinging deck. I already have Naya tokens/anthems and Grixis sac/recursion so preferably another color combination. I really like "build around me" commanders, preferably cheap so removal doesn't fuck my day up as much.

What are some commanders that fit the bill?

>>51492581
Spellsling as in "throw as many sorcery/instant as I can"?
I guess Mizzix is the classic one, or vial smasher if you want competitive, or just Baral because he's great looking

>friend is coming over at somepoint today and expects me to teach him magic
>I almost completed a few noob friendly decks, but then got distracted by my new job
Well, fuck. All my decks are esoteric dual/tri colour nonsense. What's the best way to make things simple on the cheap? I'm thinking let him use Uril or Jori-En and I'll use Lazav, but they're all pretty complicated. I also have 90% of the Marath precon hanging around if that helps with anything.

>>51492662
>Vial Smasher if you want competitive
Wait what

>>51492581
Jori En Cantrips?

>>51492663
Keep it mono or two-colored for a beginner I'd say.
Big beaters and voltrons are easy to understand too

what color suffers the most from bad draw?

>>51492685
That's what I was thinking too, but Uril is the "simplest" deck I'm running.

Here are the options:
>Brago generic flickerstuff
>Uril cantrip enchantress
>Lazav wheels and late-game reanimator
>Ghave obscenely complicated combo nonsense
>Jori-En big beaters, planeswalkers and artifacts

Am I totally fucked?

>>51492702
White, no question. Why even ask.

>>51492662
vials only competitive in duel commander which is shit to begin with.

>>51492707
>Brago generic flickerstuff
This is probably the simplest of the bunch, he can use Brago's trigger as pseudo-vigilance and ramp.

>>51492733
This is true, and a fatal weakness of most of my decks is a lack of protection from flying, so he'll get at least a few triggers.

What should I run? I'm thinking I can play Jori-En or Lazav pretty durdle-town if I don't just play out my hand. I have that Marath precon that I can flesh out, as well as most of a Yahenni deck I intended to be the "noob" deck.

I'm thinking I'll let him look through my binder and so I can build him whatever he wants, assuming he has fun, and that way I can give him a crash-course in goodstuff for his strategy.

>>51492662
What's so competitive about vial smasher over like any of the other spellslinger? Her ability is linear as fuck and requires a high cmc to do any significant damage. Seems like a bad card to me.

>>51492800
If Jori En isn't too oppresive you could play it vs Brago. He can start learning funny interations like Reality Acid to remove your big stuff.

>>51492800
20 life on Duel.

>>51492825
Jori-En is only oppressive if I start recuring artifacts, Tezzeret tutors up something mean, or Memnarch shows up. I recently played with a group who hates MLD so I've already taken out all the fun stuff.

I really wish I had enough time to finish Feldon, I had it perfectly planned out to balance against Yaheeni, and demons vs dragons seemed like a good time.

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>>51488655
Opinions on pauper/peasant commander ?

My timmy friend wants to give it a shot

>>51493116

It's kinda boring and battlecruiser-y since there's not a lot of good board wipes

Need help with two decks, trying to build Gaddock Teeg as an aggro deck that uses Gaddock as a 'WoG-shield' but never built aggro before and card draw options to reload are lacking in those colours.

Second deck is sliver queen token swarm. It's loosely based off my old Hazezon Tamar deck but I wanted to see how far the theme could go with 5c and the commander is obviously much better with tons of mana. Problem is I found an absolutely degenerate "average turn 4-5 win" deck on mtgsalvation while looking for guides and the spike in me is discouraged because whatever I build will probably be less competitive while the johnny in me is feeling a bit horrified at how disgusting the deck is. How do I get back enthusiasm for the deck now?

>>51492662
I don't necessarily need quantity of spells, I just want a deck that focuses more on instants/sorceries than on permanents.

Mizzix is fun but a friend of mine already plays him and we like to keep it varied. Melek would be a good example of a fun "build around me" spellslinger if it weren't for his high mana cost.

>>51492684
>Jori En Cantrips
Looks good but feels like it has a risk of just ending up as generic goodstuff with some extra card draw.

>>51493116
You get fucking huge boardstalls because the best boardwipe is Evincar's Justice.
Just play 60 card pauper. Much more diverse.

>>51493184
>competitive edh
Yeah, I don't like to dip my wick into the maxed out optimization route, because it gets real boring, real quick. There's only so many times you can swing with Brago to reset your field or abuse Food Chain before it gets old. I only bust out my SSSharuum eggs when a motherfucker starts bragging about how op their deck is or someone wants a taste of what EDH's power level really is. Besides those situations, it sort of just sits there.

What you need to decide is, is Sliver Queen going to be THAT deck? Is it going to be the deck that humbles the fuck out of people? Or do you want it to be a funsies deck, knowing that you went the "I want to have fun doing janky shit" route? Both are fine, despite what EDHgeneral or cEDH might say. Honestly, if you don't go to the "I'm bound and determined to make this train wreck of a commander work" and to the "Not when I shift into Tier 1" extremes, you're missing out on what EDH is. I think everyone should have at least 1 Vintage Highlander deck, at least 1 75% deck and at least 1 "The Room" tier deck.

>>51493411
Play Toshi then. It might look as just killspells.deck but there's a lot of varied black instants.

>>51493416
>the best boardwipe is Evincar's Justice
Rolling Thunder and Pendrell Mists say hello. Also a lot of Essence Scatter-like effects become great because of all the creatures everyone plays.

>>51493458
>Rolling Thunder and Pendrell Mists

I didn't know those were Common since it's Pauper Commander

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Just opened this thing in a pack, what decks would best benefit from it?

>>51493511
Rolling thunder was a common in Tempest.

>>51493640
all of them

>>51493640
Decks with lots of mana rocks.

>>51493640
Decks with mana rocks or dorks. I would probably want at least 10. Other than that decks with a general that taps to activate, or a tap theme.

>>51493640
King Macar vehicles

>>51494200
Why does /edh/ keep pushing this? Most of the vehicles are pretty shit and King macar can't even crew half of them himself kek.

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>>51494200
Hey man, he said what would benefit and that deck obviously would.

>>51494298
whoosp, meant to quote >>51494239

>>51494239
It's just a meme because Macar sounds like My car, and he is possibly the only way to make any vehicles viable in edh.

>>51493443
See, that's just it. I love tuning decks, but usually based around the commander. At the end of the day I enjoy the aspect of pushing a deck to higher power levels but endless tutoring and turn 4-5 combo decks aren't fun for me. Tbh I don't really know what limits to impose on myself.

Really I just wish Sheldon would pull his thumb out his ass and ban the most egregious tutor effects so my inner spike isn't niggling away everytime I play a deck that COULD be a vicious combo winner.

(sorry this is turning into a rant) I like the commander system because it allows people to build around a card, in essence making each deck fundamentally different. But at the end of the day, because of the severely lacking banlist, it's usually suboptimal. Unless the commander brings something fucking ridiculous you might as well just play fucking Atogatog and use the five colours to make a degenerate combo deck and this annoys me.
tl;dr get your shit together Sheldon

>>51493640
Arcum daggson

>>51494318
Breya works too since she has access to 4 colors.

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"What if we took the Polymorph space and split it between blue and red. Blue would get the controlled version. When I know what I'm going to turn the thing into, that's blue. When I'm going to turn a thing into something else, but I don't know what exactly, that's red.

I did have one important caveat. In the original Commander deck product, Ken Nagle, trying to solve this very problem, made the card Chaos Warp.

The idea was to make a more isolated version of Warp World. Unfortunately, its ability to target enchantments along with its tendency to often whiff and not replace the card ended up making an efficient way to get rid of something that's supposed to be a weakness for red: enchantments. I said that when playing in this space, I didn't want the cards destroying enchantments, and whenever something was destroyed, I always wanted it replaced with something equivalent. This type of spell was red changing things chaotically into something else, not outright destroying them. The team agreed, and we started making cards like Indomitable Creativity."

-Maro 2017

Lo and behold, he's still butthurt.

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>>51494404
Considering that Sheldon unbanned metalworker, i doubt he can think.

>>51493640

been working on this one and its gold
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/the-millers-tale-3/

>>51493640

Something with mana rocks and Isochron Scepter.

>>51493640
Eggs just wins with that card out.

>>51493640
A Z A M I

>>51494724
Why play silumgar? What does he add to the mill strategy?

>>51495252

I'm guessing because his toughness is 7, so he'd tap to mill 7.

A lot better creatures to choose from though, with a lot better toughness to CMC ratios

>>51494659
No, she doesn't.

As a matter of fact, because she is 4 color, I can't think of a single vehicle that doesn't have a better alternative for her.

>>51495373

Breya brings 6 power with her Thopters. I think that's enough to Crew any Vehicle.

>>51495527
Why does she want to crew these vehicles though?

Is it because you are trash and think French vanilla beaters are good in edh? Every vehicle with an actual ability can be replicated more efficiently in her colors. Hell, even if you just wanted to tap stuff clock of omens does it better in an artifact deck

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These two cards. I dunno whether to run them or take them out in place for a Pyretic Ritual and a Counterspell.

The deck is Mizzix and the spasm is there for infinite combo with reiterate, the problem is that the combo only really works at 4 experience counters or more, unless I am missing something, which is the same amount of counters for the pyretic ritual/desperate ritual and reiterate combo for infinite mana.

High tide is good but I don't know if I wanna take the deck into a High tide direction and the deck is missing a counterspell or I can cram in a pyromancers goggles.

Am I missing something about these cards? Is there a huge combo I am not seeing other than high tiding and then making an ocean of mana?

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>>51493640
That's absolutley ridiculous. Spikes and their toys will be the death of this game, if it's not already headed there fast. Might as well print a card that says 'if you draw a card you win the game' at this point.

Enjoy your lottery cards while you still have people to play with, friendo.

>>51493640
If you pulled it, then play it I guess. But fucking christ...

>>51495850
it's ok, wotc will soon print a new commander that has a new flavor of "when this creature attacks/deals combat damage, you win the game"

we don't have enough of those yet

>>51495669

Yeah man I don't even want to run artifacts in her colors. I just want to use her colors to access a bunch of bomb creatures.

>>51494318
>>51494239
DO YOU LIKE
MY CAR (MY CAR) (MY CAR)

I also tried to build a drift memes deck, and I actually really like how it performs, even if it's incredibly hit or miss and casual power. Here's how the deck essentially works:

1. Zurgo Bellstriker as the commander, and a focus on Crew 2 or less. The reason is Dash- normally, you'd tap your creature, tap your vehicle, and leave both out. With Dash, you get a commander that resists tax, other efficient beaters and vehicle drivers, and a way to dodge creature boardwipes. If they wipe artifacts, you still have creatures. If they wipe everything, you still have creatures to swing in with next turn. It's not like you could block with tapped things anyway.

2. Damage. Impact Tremors, Outpost Siege, Sulfuric Vortex, Furnace of Rath, Bitter Feud, Manabarbs- you want to stack on the damage as hard as possible. You have to be careful about how you order these or else you'll end up getting yourself fucked, but nothing feels so good as running a guy over until he's unable to cast anything without killing himself.

3. Chaos effects
Not the memetic ones, shit like Wild Evocation. The more group-huggy ones. They'll distract opponents while you get your damage engine and make everyone assume you're a silly meme deck. You are a silly meme deck. Enjoy it.

4. Tokens and goodstuff
You do eventually want blockers, and goblin tokens do this just fine. Otherwise, just stack in fun red bullshit.

>>51495889
Dibs


Also, watch the new Alpha Investments video on youtube about commander. Something is afoot.

https://youtu.be/JodsW6whYqg

>>51491186
My friends can´t read for some reason and calls him nekosaurus

>>51495373>>51495669
Cause with 4 colors, a person has access to more effects to create tokens to crew the vehicles. And those 4 colors have artifact support. She can easily crew vehicles as well. Lastly, it's fucking vehicles in edh, they won't be strong. It's good enough to make a fun edh you fucking idiot

Does anyone have some tips on how to build an Abzan Reanimator style of EDH deck? I'm trying to build Abzan Butts.dec with Ikra and Sidar.

My only experience with a reanimator strategy, or at least the one I like the most, is Mardu, specifically Alesha using white rez/search, red and black sack outlets and tokens, and so on. I'd like to avoid using Karador if at all possible.

I'd also like to avoid using power 3 or higher as much as possible, use tokens where possible, sack outlets, and repeatable recursion as much as possible (Reanimate is good, but single-use in most cases; I'm looking for things that can be used multiple times.)

>>51496215
I'm assuming you've got Doran and defensive formation. Korador is obviously good, diobolic servitude, phyrexian reclemation, dance of the dead, and strands of night are all repeatable recursion. You'll also have stuff like Ravos and palace siege if you like.

>>51496215
Eternal witness is a must to recur reanimate spells

Opened up Baral and Disallow in the same pack. Any tips on what could be fun to toss in a deck build around him? Playing MTGO so cards are about 100 times less expensive than paper so any ideas would be cool. Likely taking out Darksteel Ingot, but for what I don't know.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/baral-chief-of-compliance-edh-wip/

>>51496507
I'd take out increasing confusion and probably prosparity. Instants/sorceries with the purpose of milling aren't that good. Consider metallurgic summons and throw in some cantrips or something.

>>51492684
Vial Smasher/X is wrecking house in Duel Commander, but that format died a while ago so I'm not sure why anyone cares about it.
Source: Former competitive Duel Commander guy.

>>51496507
Before building Baral, ask yourself the following questions:

1. Do I want the game to be fun for me and me only, if at all?
2. Do I like forcing my opponents to ask permission for every single spell they cast?
3. Do I want to waste everyone's time until they concede rather than actually try to win the game like a decent human being?

If you answer "yes" to all three of those, your decklist is as simple as you can possibly get:
1. counterspells
2. spells that let you scry and draw
3. wincons or combos, probably labman

If you answered "no" to #2 and #3, consider running him as part of the 99 in a different deck. Leovold, possibly.

If you answered "no" to #1 but still answered yes to other questions, then you might manage a Baral deck. Try as many "spell cheapening" effects as you can stack in, Jace's Sanctum and such, even if they effect everyone. Set aside a portion of your deck space for things that don't read "counter" or "draw". Give someone faith in humanity.

Im thinking of getting my wife into the group games, and she'd prefer not to have to focus on attacking, but rather politics. and outlasting the others.

never built any form of grouphug or political deck, i need input, please

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/affirmative-actiondec/

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>>51497344
Hold up. Before i comment, i read your description. If your wife can quickly learn the rules and she doesn't get frustrated while learning this game, by all means use the gay kings. Otherwise, selvala would be a better choice. I'm assuming it'll be the pic related, which would make for a good commander for a beginner. Less colors make it easier for a beginner to learn the game.

>>51497480
ive contemplated it but the problem building selvala is i have problems building her group huggy over elfball, and edhrec doesn't help much to avoid the elfball

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Is there a way to build Jhoira while everyone else can still have fun? UR is my favorite color combo and I love the idea of playing super huge spells like the eldrazi and omniscience. I was thinking of cutting all the extra turn nonsense but keeping one or two wipes like jokulhaups and obliterate

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>>51497529
How about lifegain, damage prevention, and/or pillowfort? Put in the other parley cards and that'll reduce the elfball focus significantly. Cards like the sphere cycle could work

When you play with a group hug player, do you let them hang around? I usually try to take them out first and people give me shit for it sometimes.

>>51497566
Sure that works. It'll still be a bitch to fight against but the lack of extra turn spells and a few MLD spells would enable other people to fight back.
>>51497661
Well, if we're just playing for fun, i do whatever. Otherwise, i take advantage of the group hug benefits to win the game.

>>51497661
depends on the kind of group hug, I usually just coast off their free resources and kill everyone at the same time.

>>51497601
i think i might be able to do lifegain and damage prevention, having cards that work politically is another issue entirely

>opponent plays a card that completely fucks over my deck
>gets angry when i start focusing him
what did he fucking expect would happen

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>>51495978

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http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/sad-machine

I've asked here, previously, but have since done a lot of honing, so I'd like to ask again: any tips / suggestions for Hope of Ghirapur Voltron? Aside from "don't"

>>51497529
>>51497480

try my decklist anons, its grouphuggy, and its second feature is token generation.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/concord-world/

>make a new deck
>order cards
>notice i completely forgot mana rocks

fuck

>>51498082
thanks, ill give that list a shot, see how she likes it

>>51497714
I just want to avoid being hated out from turn one from the rest of the group as soon as they see her. Jhoira pretty much builds herself so I'll toy around with a list. Thinking about playing cards like Jin-Gitaxias and Blightsteel colossus really excites me

>>51498150
>Not buying mana rocks in bulk
>Not buying Sol Rings by the dozen
>Not having twenty foiled copies of each of your favorite basic lands
Top pleb over here

>>51498260
>His favorite lands have foil printings
Wow, what a pleb.

>>51498403
I'm not taking out a second mortgage for a playset of guru lands

>>51496168
Some people might have fun playing haakon and 99 swamps, it doesn't mean the deck is viable. Sure, you can play whatever you want and get a chuckle out of it, but if it's bad you can't warp the English language and say it's not.

Finally, if that's your only argument, why get hung up on breya? Vehicles aren't viable with her and they won't be viable with hundreds of other commanders, but they could be "fun" with all of them.

>>51496699
He is on MTGO, he should be as toxic as he wants. There is no social contract there. It's almost guaranteed that at least one of his other opponents will be a total jackass.

>>51493640
Bosh mana rock throwing.

>>51498666
Your first sentence is fucking retarded. I didn't know it was possible to do that kind of mental gymnastics.
That's not my only argument. It's clear that no matter what i say, you'll just shove your head up your ass and say "nuh uh". I merely said that she can also do vehicles cause of artifacts, not that she's the only way. What the hell do you mean by viable? It's a fucking casual edh suggestion, not a deck with the power level of tazri food chain. Your the one that got assblasted with the suggestion, as if you have a hate boner for breya and vehicles

>>51494200
A guy at my LGS just made this the other day.

It's pretty damn funny.

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>>51498028
Specifically, should I consider replacing Voltaic Key for Clock of Omens? Key's cheap, and effective, but clock looks like it'd pay for itself and beyond real quick-like since it can use equipment against mana rocks. Anyone have any experience? Should I run key and clock and cut a different card?

>>51498925
Clock is fucking insane.

First time building a Commander deck. I just want another format to play and im a big fan of older formats like this and Legacy. Im either building Adun Oakenshield or Hanna, Ships Navigator. I got cards for both so ill just have to choose.

>>51498028
>http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/sad-machine
Stormrider's Rig, Hero's Blade, Sai of The Shinobi

>>51499338
Hanna is far stronger, but Adun gets bonus points for being a rare sight.

Anyone have any experience with either Adun Oakenshield or Hanna? Adun is probably more my gameplay style, just value aggro with a graveyard theme to help outvalue your opponents. Hanna looks cool though, kinda doing the same exact thing as Adun just with artifacts and enchantments instead

>>51499352
Oh really? I thought it would be the other way around actually. Adun seemed to be super value with Survival of the Fittest and cards like Mindwrack Demon and Grave Titan

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>>51498925
I run both, but Clock of Omens is absolutely obscene.

>tapping and untapping Metalworker for horrifying amounts of mana
>dump my hand
>win

>>51499389
It's only been printed once in Legends, so that severely limits how many are in circulation.

Then you have commanders like Prossh in those colors that just make Adun bend over and cry.

Hanna is a really good stax'ish commander, since she can keep cards like Solitary Confinement running indefinitely, and get back cards like Tanglewire, Smokestack, or enchantments your opponents remove.

>>51498925
I use both cause each one is fucking good. Besides, it's better to have both for consistency with untapping

On a flavor level I love the idea of an izzet wizard tribal deck but I can't really justify it just yet

Are there any good red wizard tribal cards I should be aware of?

Right now my thinking is to use azami and wheelling to fetch up curiosity and slap it on niv

>>51499442
>doubling cube in play
>drop clock of omens
>double mana to 20
>double it to 34
>double it to 62
>double it to 118
>double it to 230
>double it half a dozen times more
>stop counting
>play entire deck

Yeah ill really have to think about which one of those commanders I want. Hanna got a lot of buffs from the blue and white gearhulks. They're titans who can be recurred from Hannas ability. But I have a Verdant Catacombs I opened from a pack id get to play in Adun.

>>51499338
I would build both if possible since you already have the cards. Besides, their colors don't overlap

>>51499470
Yeah its reserved list. I dont mind I have the cash to grab him and the judge foil of Hanna. I like Hanna but that gameplay style isnt very me you know? Im more of a value/aggro player and Adun fits perfectly for that

>>51493116
I don't like it, the games tend to drag on even longer than regular edh games

>>51498894
You should check the tone of all the posts anon. The only one assblasted here is you.

I'm guessing you have a breya vehicles deck and you don't want to admit on the internet that it's bad. It's fine anon, there is nobody watching. Nobody that you know anyway. You are allowed to build bad decks on purpose, but you should probably realize when they are bad, anon.

>>51499535
then play Adun, it's more about the 99 cards than the commander.

>>51499527
I have a few pricy cards for each deck, Catacombs, Mire and Foothills for Adun and an Arid Mesa and Cryptic & Austere Command etc, but id have to choose between the two

>>51499565
I probably will. This is my very first commander deck so im researching the format. Ive come up with decent lists in word for both decks. Looking at EDHREC to see signature and top cards.

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>>51499551
Nice backpedaling. The only way to make imbeciles like you is through insults until it drives your thick skulls
>he thinks i have a breya vehicles edh
LMAO
your really grasping at straws right now. It's time for you to stop posting and like your balls in the corner. Are you now an illiterate nigger that you didn't read that i was suggesting a deck concept that can work in a casual setting? Go suck a dick faggot

>>51499574
Since you mentioned to the other anon that you play aggressively, use adun. Hanna isn't aggressive at all, most of the time that is. Besides, jund is aggressive.

>>51499654
Fucking autocorrect. Meant lick.

>>51498925
You run both of those.

>>51498028
Your deck looks very fragile. Very little draw. How about cards like scour from existence and universal solvent?

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>>51497566
What's your list look like? I've been wanting to build her but outside of board wipes and a few cards to boost counter removal I've got no idea where to start.

>>51499682
Yes im leaning towards Adun. What are some good draw cards in Jund colors. I have a feeling Dark Confidant isnt very good in Commander.

>>51499722
Yeah, I updated my list, dropped Moonsilver Spear, since between playing and equipping, it's 8 mana, and functionally just makes a blocker, which is one of many functions clock does for 4, assuming I haven't given hope vigilance.

whats the best c13 deck to buy?

>>51499873
You legitimately cannot go wrong. Each one has good value of cards, and all contain (at least!) one high-tier commander. Pick your favourite colours.

>>51499895
>tfw you bought 2 Espers and a Bant
Really helped round out my EDH card pool later on since I focused on Mardu colors more after Innistrad

>>51499817
At the top of my head, greater good and faithless looting. Tutors are heavily used in edh. And yeah, dark condidant isn't really that good for a jund deck.

>>51499938
Forgot to mention the cards i mentioned work in specific strategies, like reanimator

>>51499938
Well faithless looting seems to be good for Adun since I can get back creatures I pitched to the yard with his ability.

>>51499482
Scratch it fellas, I'm going five colors and putting Karona in charge of the thing.

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Ok guys, I'm gonna build Rishkar. I asked about this before and basically all the feedback was that he's better in the 99, but I just love the card and I'm not a standardfag.

How do I make it work?

>>51500006
unfortunately he is just better in the 99 and a really mediocre commander

>>51500006
Helix Pinnacle
Druid Tribal
Elf Tribal
Monogreen counters
Monogreen good stuff
Monogreen hydras

There's options. Can't see why you like him but these are options for you.

>>51500006
Well, get yourself a Paradox Engine so you can be constantly untapping all those mana dorks. I suppose you could go elf tribal or your basic green ramp and tramp.

>>51500026
I'm fine with building around a mediocre commander. I already have Wanderer, Breya, Marath, and Roon for when I want to play "competitively".

>>51500006
http://magiccards.info/query?q=o%3A%2B1%2F%2B1+c%21g+%28r%3Amythic+or+r%3Arare%29&s=cname&v=card&p=6

Top end should be threats that have some sort of play with +1/+1 counters, like Avenger; Jugan,Bloodspore Thrinax etc or you can end with a Paradox Engine storm thing.

The rest of the deck is probably best as elves? Or just token spawning stuff, if you're going to be cumming counters everywhere.

My spicy tech advice in any case is Whisperwood Elemental, especially in an elf shell.

>>51500077
well i guess just go with the standard "LUL I MONO GREEN RAMP INTO BIG THICC CREATURES" except with a meh commander and a 1/1 matters theme. there are better commanders for it though

I have a rule question and I can't find the judge thread
If Ixidron turns Ulamog the infinite great face down and it thenever subsequently leaves the battlefield does ulamog get shuffled into the deck from the graveyard?

>>51500140
Also please put in boardwipe prevention! You NEED Eldrazi Monument sort of anthems/effects. Heroic Intervention is excellent at the moment.

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>>51499816
I don't have a set list right now, I'm still tinkering with the list but there are some really good cards that won't change. Timebug, clockspinning, fury charm, rift elemental, paradox haze, and time crafting are all auto includes. Then it just depends on what you want to suspend. Since they have haste when they come out you can't go wrong with eldrazi plus they are all huge and awesome. Darksteel and Blightsteel colossus are big tramplers. Inkwell leviathan is really cool too. I'm also a big fan of Omniscience. Counters to defend your stuff coming off of suspend, mass land destruction, board wipes, extra turn spells. She's got it all. I like planeswalkers so I'm going to put the new Chandra in she's really good and you can't go wrong with any Jace. The rest is just the general mana rocks, land, and draw to get to your big suspend finishers. All of that is what I like but fill out the deck with what suits your playstyle.
https://edhrec.com/commanders/jhoira-of-the-ghitu This place has some good suggestions

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guise i have a question i hope you can help me with
let's say someone uses pic related or ashnod's and wants to sac an artifact or creature
does my opponent target the artifact/creature he wants to sac with either of these and could I in response kill the creature for the effect to fizzle (I know he could jst reactivate it and sac the same creature)?

so i bought the widris precon and after playing with it once it has become clear that the mana base is dog shit, how do i remedy this? should i just take out all the slow lands and replace them with pain and shock lands?

>>51500006
Green burn spells to take advantage of all the mana. Pic related with squall line and borrowing the east wind

>>51500314
you also replace some of the basics with fetches

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>>51500270
Thanks for the help! You've definitely given me a solid place to start.

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>>51500314
That's one way to do it.
>>51500320
Fuck forgot picture

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>>51500275
Nope you can't interrupt sacrificing, it's a cost. As long as they have priority, you're not gonna stop it from happening. Depending on what they are doing, a well timed krosan grip to the krark clan ironworks might stop what they are doing, but they still get the 2 mana unless you catch them when they pass priority or something

>>51500331
You are welcome! I'm sure there's stuff I forgot. Consecrated sphinx is good but I don't use it. Rhystic study is a decent alternative that people will hate you less for and is easier on the wallet. Jin-Gitaxias is also devastating if he manages to stick

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>>51491069
anyone here done a reanimator deck with pic related? I'm trying to decide if Vampiric Rites is worth including and if so, what to remove. My gut say Selfless Spirit but idk.

I already have Attrition, Fanatical Devotion, and Martyr's Cause as outlets but I thought one that gives cards can't hurt.

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So who's the best Energy commander? I was thinking of doing Gay Greeks mostly for color options/ramp purposes, but I have no idea what to fit in the thing other than anything in WURG with Energy counters, proliferate artifacts/spells, and shit for Whirler Virtuoso/Electrostatic Pummeler to work off of.

>>51500614
there isnt really enough energy cards to make a deck with

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Hey I know this is a stupid question but my friend who is new to commander wants to run bring to light in a bant deck and use exotic orchard and fellwar stone to make the black and red (assuming he has a black and/or red opponent). I told him he can't do that, that he can't produce colors outside his commander's identity, but I couldn't find an official rule on it outside of message board posts. Is this a rule used in tournaments or is it only a casual play rule?
http://www.dragonhighlander.net/rules.php
these official rules don't mention being unable to produce certain colors outside of commander identity, only that you can't run cards with MANA symbols outside of it

>>51500688
the rule was changed when devoid was added, you can now produce any color mana, but still not run other color identities.

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>>51500712
Whoah. So bring to light works with fellwar stone and exotic orchard, or any darksteel ingot type effect. That's pretty righteous thanks for the info

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>>51500783
You can guess what happened.

>>51500614
Gay greeks is fine. If you want more options,
I would still go green red blue because that's where most of the good energy cards are.
Animar isn't bad, neither is riku of two reflections or maelstrom wanderer. Your only other options in those colors are surrak dragonclaw and intet the dreamer.
Riku seems like a really good option because he can copy your energy creatures' come into play effects, and copy your energy-related spells

>>51500848
I would not have guessed that but in retrospect, yeah makes a lot of sense

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so i am going to break this down and make an alesha deck, what is some spicy tech?

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>order some singles for Orzhov taxes deck
>Wound Reflection comes in a pack with some junk commons from Conspiracy
>now might be able to slot Stronghold Discipline in for extra fun with Wound Reflection
>everything went better than expected

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Why couldn't this dude a be a wizard instead of a shaman.

>>51500006
themanasource on youtube made a primer on him. check it out

>>51501136
Shamans are a rad tribe tho

>>51500946
Gratuitous Violence, Insurrection are all nice.

Or if you want some fun infinite combat phases:
Savage Ventmaw or Bear Umbra (there's another green enchantment that works too I just can't remember it) + Aggravated Assault or Hellkite Charger

>>51500275
You are wrong on many counts. You don't "target" a creature to sacrifice, it's just done as a cost, you don't know which creature is going to go til it's already in the yard.
>>51500518
Is pretty right, except maybe he doesn't understand that ironworks is a mana ability, so priority doesn't get passed after it resolves.

Fun fact about those and triggered abilities, let's say you have your nim deathmantle out, ashnods, and flayer of the hatebound out and someone krosan grips your ashnods. You can still activate it because it's a mana ability, and your deathmantle can still be triggered, which you can pay for. You can kill the whole table before the grip resolves, locking people out of most forms of interaction.

>>51501148
Ehhhh. With what we have shaman shouldn't exist imho. We have wizards, druids, and clerics as supported tribal types. I don't see what shamans add on a flavourful level at all, since everything fits into the other 3 types already.

I could get it existing for mechanical design reasons, but I don't think guttersnipe breaks that shit. Or anything else for that matter.

>>51499817
Greater good, greed, Erebos, shamanic revelations, necropotence, soul of the harvest, Garruk's packleader, elemental bond
There's plenty more good ones, those are just off the top of my head.

>>51500275
Just run Null Rod or Stony Silence. They stop all forms of degeneracy with just a simple 2 mana.

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Any one else get mail today?

>>51501316
Shamans > druids for flavor purposes
But broadly, I agree. Furthermore:
Warrior barbarian berserker
Rogue assassin

>>51499959
There's also all the wheels if you want to pitch stuff
Wheel of fortune, wheel of fate, magus of the wheel, cast the bones

>>51501361
no but a full set of pain lands should be arriving for me tomorrrow

>>51501374
>>51501316
I think the intent of shaman is a sort of uncivilized, uncontrollable mage...

Which doesn't really jive with Guttersnipe.

>>51500275
It's also a mana ability, so you don't even get to respond to him sacrificing shit unless something else triggers off it.

>>51501405
>Literally wants to watch the Worldcity burn to the ground
>His ability isn't voluntary, you need to do it
>Uncivilized, uncontrollable magic doesn't jive with him

Bruh

>>51501374
>Shamans > druids for flavor purposes
I suppose this is right, all druids are shamans, but not all shamans are druids.

This shit though
>>51501405
This is the shit that pisses me off. That's probably because I run grixis wizard tribal though. It seems like they throw shaman on shit at random, despite the fact it only has 1 exclusive tribal support card, and I don't think anyone would be against all instances of it appearing since eventide disappearing.

>>51501529
Yeah, I suppose. Now if it were a random target, that'd REALLY be red.

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What commander best embodies Stirner's ideas of egoism and a free union of egoists?

>>51500163
Iirc, the shuffle trigger needs to see ulamog die. Since a random manifest is all that died, it has no trigger. I could be very wrong

>>51501954

99% sure you are correct. After all, it's not Ulamog dying, it's the colorless 2/2.

>>51501970
>>51501954
But isnt it an Ulamog when it hits the yard? Its not a dies trigger but a "Enter the graveyard one"

>>51501361
Got a set of fatal pushs coming and the Saskai precon coming tomorrow. Slightly hyped

>>51501986
I'm pretty sure thats the same thing, just worded different. The trigger wants an ulamog creature to move from battlefield to graveyard, not just an ulamog card end up in graveyard.

>>51502052
>>51501986
>>51501970
>>51501954
To whit, the ruling on Ixidron:

>Creatures turned face down by Ixidron are 2/2 creatures with no text, no name, no subtypes, no expansion symbol, and no mana cost.

So when it goes to the graveyard, it's not Ulamog and doesn't shuffle.

>>51502052
>>51502093
Then people shouldn't get the shuffle trigger when Ulamog is milled in right?

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>>51502191
When Ulamog is milled, he's Ulamog.

>When Ulamog is put into a graveyard from anywhere

The issue is that a Ixidron-facedown Ulamog is no longer that card, even when he hits the graveyard. Now, once he's in the graveyard, he's Ulamog again, yes. But he's no longer being PUT into the graveyard, he's already THERE. See? It's the action, not the end result.

>>51502619
Oh, I feel like a complete dumbass now.

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>>51502619
It's the interactions like this that makes me scratch my head initially then go, "OH so that's how it goes!". One of the reasons why i enjoy playing mtg

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>>51501875
Gotta go with sunastian falconer

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>playing edh with girlfriend and two dudes at lgs
>late game, grindy too, everyone is pretty low, 15-20 life ish
>girlfriend playing korlash, I'm playing slobad, random playing BUG artifacts, other playing ravos + tynma
>bug artifact guy drops paradox engine
>ohboyherewego.Jpg
>combos for 5 minutes, plays most of his hand, draws a bunch, runs out of colored mana
>talks how he could have won that turn and just wait etc etc, the man is getting a hard on under the table, you can tell
>korlashs turn, immediately corrupts for about 15, instantly dumpstering bug artifact guy
>the look on his face

You can't fake that moment, lads

She won later with gray merchant, and continuously recasting korlash, and digging for rogues passage

>>51493640
>Sisay
>Arcum Daggson
>Azami
>Make good decks better

>>51495816
I think you're right it just makes a fuckload of mana then you X spell that shit. Reality Spasm isn't that neat in my opinion, but I'd keep the high tide because it could be useful in other situations.

Don't use Pyromancer's Goggles, it's shit. Trust me.

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>>51503756
I'm leaning towards away from goggles. I really just want something that isn't storm mizzix. Did see a 8x8 theory on political cards like pic related though and plea for power and slip decision seem kind of neat for the deck. Expropriate and Tempt with Vengeance seem like they can be hella fun and just put an end to games. I'm surprised to just be now hearing of Portal, that seems like a cool card in theory.

Just updated this to try and have less tap lands. May still have too many lands. Any thoughts on Slivers?

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/the-skittering-horde/

I need help deciding between a grixis commander. Should I play Jeleva good shit, or Sedris reanimator?

>>51504013
Jeleva seems more fun in my opinion. Just for dicking around with your opponent's library.

>>51504042
One of my friends played it a few times, but didnt ever do much with it. I don't know if it was built poorly, because it basically turned into a mill deck at the end

>>51504042
Jeleva's also more likely to be hated off the table.

>>51504061
true, but i feel like the same applies to anything i bring back with Sedris. im worried stuff wont really stay on the field that long unless I force it to

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>>51504042
actually I think this card may have just made me want to play jeleva

>>51501408
>>51501227
>>51500275
thanks, yeah I forgot about the mana ability part, makes totally sense though.
so let's take something like sidisi's exploit trigger or thopter foundry.
those are an etb and an ability that go on the stack and I can respond to right?

>>51501344
nah, i still wanna do degeneracy myself

>>51500006
That mofo looks like Sinestro

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>>51494880
You bastard

>>51494990
That doesn't really do anything to demonstrate a successful infinite recursion of Second Sunrise though.

>>51504373
You can respond to the ability of thopter foundry but not the cost. The creature hits the yard before you can react.

Sidisi has a triggered ability that goes on the stack, so if you do something like evacuation with the trigger still on the stack they won't have any creatures left to sacrifice, and can't exploit.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/up-and-down-to-the-grave/
What should I cut for Krosan Grip?

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i had a really silly idea how to fix spike edh earlier

introduce a new kind of restricted list for cards

>but it's singleton, how do you restrict cards

why it's simple, forbid players from using more than a set amount of cards from the hypothetical restricted list. for example, let's say you have the following cards on the restricted list:

>sol ring
>mana crypt
>mana vault
>food chain
>demonic tutor
>vampiric tutor
>etc.

with the restricted list in play, your deck could only have say, 4 of those cards while still being legal. i figured it would have the following effect on the game:

>easier to max out the power level of a deck without dropping tons of money on tutors and fast mana, a newbie with a pre-con would already be 1/4 his way to "maxing out" his deck
>harder to design a deck around the typical "lmao just put in 5 colors worth of tutors, fast mana and combos and win t1-3" edh style
>force players to choose a ratio between fast tutors and fast mana
>promote deckbuilding by allowing consistent, theme-centered decks to shine and downgrade incoherent spike decks that play themselves by tutoring the same shit every game
>the spirit of EDH being a format for collectors showing off cool cards would still remain, said collectors would just have to split their collection throughout several decks
>spikes wouldn't have to worry about not maxing out each deck with the typical roster of 15 auto-include tutors and fast mana cards

obviously this would be arbitrary and probably stupid too but i just thought it was a cool idea to blog about

>>51505119
Thief of blood.

>>51500848
>>51500945

I have no idea. What happened..?

>>51505166
IIRC Canadian highlander does this, and no it's not very good. There is a reason you haven't heard of it before.

That being said, every card you mentioned doesn't actually do anything on its own. You could be running them all in a xira arien insect tribal deck that you are desperate to make work for instance.

Tutors in particular are silly bans for this kind of thing, since tutors add more consistency but don't actually speed up your clock. If a spike in your group is winning every game turn 3 or 4, he is going to keep winning turn 3 or 4, it's just that he will be doing it every other game instead of every game.

Point is, it's not the cards, it's the people. Talk to everyone and see what level the group wants to play at, then have everyone build their decks accordingly.

how do i get into edh? i know the rules for mtg, been playing on magic duels for a month now. thinking about picking up the real thing, is it really that expensive? or can is just start out at mtgo, and like throw 10-15 dollar a month on it? or should i play pauper with this budget?

>>51505246
Read the official rules change log in the OP

>>51505264
Singleton decks are not meant to have consistency in most of its forms, let alone the hyper-consistency one-drop tutors provide.

>>51505292
You can make edh decks for real cheap, also the preconstructed decks aren't a bad place to start if you just want to jump into playing right away.

>>51505307
Stop recommending precons holy shit.

>>51505264
>every card you mentioned doesn't actually do anything on its own

wow what a stupid thing to say

i'm not going to even respond to anything else

>>51505309
nah

>>51505312
To be fair the point about Canadian Highlander and its point system sucking is basically factual criticism.

>>51505166
It's a neat concept but it won't really solve a problem, it'll just shake up the meta a little. You would still have spike players with decks that win unreasonably fast for any non-competitive player to have a chance. You also run the risk of homogenizing deck building because "if you aren't using all 4 of your restricted slots you're fucking stupid" and "why are you using the low tier restricted cards instead of the top tier restricted cards, retard?" etc.

The best solution is to let cEDHfags be as cancerous as they are among themselves and ban the cards that ruin normal games.

>>51505184
Yeah, should have it in the sideboard until the local Atraxa-players show up

>>51505329
>"if you aren't using all 4 of your restricted slots you're fucking stupid" and "why are you using the low tier restricted cards instead of the top tier restricted cards, retard?" etc.

but that already happens, except it's "why aren't you using all the 15 auto-include fast mana cards and 5 auto-include tutors in your colors"

there would still be times when you could win very fast with those restricted cards, but the fact that you couldn't rely on drawing the same fast mana and tutor hand every hand would, hopefully, let less spikey decks have at least a chance against you, and also force you to plan around not drawing those tutors and combos every game

>>51505292
It can be, you have to shell out ($100-200 minimum, probably much more) for any constructed tournaments or events. EDH doesn't have those though, so you don't need to shell out anymore than your friends are paying, and probably a lot less than that.

You can try pauper too, but I have never seen an active pauper scene. It might be best if you go to your lgs and see what people actually play. If the answer is none of the above you could be stuck with MTGO.

>>51505301
That's literally just like, your opinion man.

Seriously though if people agreed with you it would be on the ban list

>>51505292
xmage is your friend if you want to play edh for free. you'll have to endure the installation process, and the netdecking brazilians, and the occasional bug/disconnect but it WILL save you hundreds of dollars since you can test every single card or deck in the game for free against real people in a decent mtg client.

most of my decks go through at least 4-6 test runs in xmage before i order singles for them

>>51505376
it doesn't really make sense to ban every single problematic card in EDH willy-nilly. it's a format where you're supposed to be allowed to play all sorts of crazy shit, and stuff like vampiric tutor and entomb are a part of it. it just becomes a problem when you really start trying to max out a deck's power level and end up doing the same "tutor for wincon" except in different colors

you can of course be a nice guy and power up/down your deck for your group but sometimes people are just autists and don't get the hint that the format isn't about tutoring for wincons as early as possible

>>51505312
Did you literally stop reading there?
I don't see how anything I said was wrong, unless you think using a vampiric tutor to look for an insect tribal enabler is the same as using it to end the game turn 3.

The problem is with how players use the cards, not the cards themselves. With the exception of a few cards on the ban list (which are broken even when used "innocently").

>>51505420
you're just being disingenuous and i don't think it's worth replying to you when you don't agree with something that's generally agreed to be true, like tutors being too powerful and format-warping in edh.

you might as well say that lightning bolt is a shit card in modern because it's bad if you target yourself with it

>>51505376
>people
You mean Sheldon Menery. He and the rest of the Rules Council control the banlist and they ban cards like Protean Hulk not because it wins the game immediately if played, but because in there five-six tests with the card they found it was often copied with Rites if Replication. That is the variation in playstyles and level of play the people that control this format.

Look to Duel Commander for a reasonable banlist.

>>51505435
Woah now, a guy (you, I assume) wanted to stop spikes by (essentially) banning more cards. I tried to prove to you that it's not cards, it's the player. For instance nothing you mentioned would slow down teferi too much. And even if you did add something for that deck, the spikes would jump on the next thing until you added that to your list too. Eventually you will end up with a restricted/banned list that would be at least in the triple digits and you would have accomplished nothing.

Didn't realize telling anons to not be autists and talk to their playgroup was being a disingenuous troll. Also

>you don't agree with something that's generally agreed to be true, like tutors being too powerful and format-warping in edh.

This is you being disingenuous, if this was the general belief then they would be banned. They are not, and you are in the minority.

>>51505504
>They are not, and you are in the minority.
prove it

>>51505521
Easy, they aren't banned in commander, a format so popular wizards pumps out precons for it every year.

Ball is in your court now, want to show me the more popular singleton formats where demonic and vampiric tutor are banned? Oh shit there aren't any.

Even sites where people do nothing but complain and bitch like reddit and the official site you rarely see tutors mentioned for bans like you do for shit like rift and sol ring. Hell I think I have seen more threads about unbanning gifts than I have for banning demonic tutor.

You know why that is? Because cEDH is a small minority, and you have to be fetching busted cards with your tutors for people to really complain about it. The cEDH crowd is so small as to be called insignificant. You are not in the majority.

>>51505610
that's not what i asked you to prove, i asked you to prove that i'm in the minority when i think low-cmc tutors are bad for edh as a format

btw duel commander has banned a bunch of low cmc tutors so you aren't right about that either

>>51505521
not that anon but are you the guy from yesterday complaining about paradox engine being op and needing a ban?

>>51505618
I'm on his side, that's 2v1 you are the minority

>>51505636
i asked my friend on whatsapp and he said tutors are bad so now it's 2v2 fucko

>>51505650
prove it.
you propably don't even have friends or a phone.

>>51505661
hello i am that anons friend and i would like to act as a witness and say that yes he has a phone and yes he has a friend (me)

>>51505618
Duel commander is not as big as normal commander. If you are trying to claim it is then we both know you are the one being disingenuous.

>prove that i'm in the minority when i think low-cmc tutors are bad for edh as a format

Considering no machine exists that can determine what someone thinks I can not prove you wrong, just like you cannot be proven right. What you think may be completely contrary to what you are typing, for instance (likely, if you are a troll on the internet). We only have things like sales numbers for people who support commander products. But if you want to ignore that as evidence fine by me. You can not argue that you are the majority or the minority if that's how you would like to treat this argument and you have just been trolling from the start.

>>51505504
Different anon here, but if you truly believe Teferi is the apex of competitive commander or that a decent banlist would require triple digits of cards then you neither understand this format nor the scope of the cards in MTG.

The nature of commander being a singleton 100 card format makes the effort required to make a comprehensive banlist over six times easier. For example, look at Vintage, even at just sixty cards it still has a fairly diverse competitive metagame (especially when compared to commander with basically one viable deck at any given time) while not having to actually ban any cards.

>>51505738
>especially when compared to commander with basically one viable deck at any given time
wat?

>>51505661
I'll go ahead and be the third guy and say ban powerful tutors.

>>51505711
Why even bother posting shit like this?

>>51505711
>You can not argue that you are the majority or the minority if that's how you would like to treat this argument and you have just been trolling from the start.

you're the one who brought up the whole "you're in the minority" thing in the first place, when you had no way to prove it. the reason i started trolling you over it was because you had no proof and it was just a dumb, pointless thing to say

>>51505356
I hear you, but I find it's a lot easier to ignore auto-includes when there's no limit on them.

Start with deck of fun/theme stuff -> "these auto-includes would be nice" -> "if I already have those auto-includes, why don't I also take these auto-includes" -> repeat a couple of times -> deck is now generic goodstuff -> "wait, all these auto-includes made my deck boring as fuck, I'll just ignore them and build a fun deck" -> end up with deck of fun/theme stuff
vs.
Start with deck of fun/theme stuff -> "I have 4 auto-include slots left and these auto-includes would be nice, I might as well " -> end up with deck of mostly fun/theme stuff and maxed out restricted slots

My description might not make a lot of sense, but if there's a low hard cap on an option in any game, players naturally become incentivized to pick those options and max them out, because the hard cap must be there for a reason.

>>51505767
Food Chain Tazri is basically the only competitive deck worth a damn right now as its almost strictly faster than Prossh while being more resilient to interaction than Scion Hermit and not losing in all of the myriad ways Storm loses.

>>51505778
>ban powerful tutors
Where do we draw the limit though? Cruel Tutor? Diabolic Tutor? How about shit like Academy Rector?

>>51505738
You missed my point completely. It's not that teferi is the best of the best, it's that if you try to stop spikes by banning out their deck they will just move to the next most powerful thing. It's best to just talk to your friends about what kind of power level you would like your group to have.

I still don't understand why people are against this idea.

Also your comment is a bit of a joke because duel commander (a format that has adopted a similar ban list to the one proposed) is not diverse at all. It's vialsmasher.dec or bust.

I would wager there is more in common between 2 different 100 card singleton formats with commanders than there is with a 60 card format without them. But you can think what you want.

>>51505781
You said that you were in the majority right here >>51505435
When you said that general opinion was in your favor.

Unless you replied to me replying to someone else's post. But that's hardly my fault.

>>51505805
The exact same way any rational sentient being processes data?

Given that I said powerful and you listed one powerful tutor card that isn't strong in competitive EDH and noticeably takes up 0 slots in the top decks I would say we've drawn a clear line.

Personally I would actually ban the problem engines experimentally like Food Chain and Hermit Druid and maybe Vampiric Tutor/Imperial Seal and see how the format evolves from there.

Unless I was banning for the casual players in which case I would hit all of the one drop tutors.

>>51505830
Nice job completely ignoring the Vintage mention and jumping right on to Duel Commander's mostly single fault, a two-month old card.

>>51505784
i actually agree with you for the most part. my group builds decks like that. no one includes fast mana or low cmc tutors, and generally tries to decks both fun to play and fun to play against. i recently had to disassemble a deck completely because it was too oppressive.

but then i also play a lot of strangers too, and i've noticed that some people just don't think that way. we'll all be agreed to play a casual game, and then suddenly some guy starts dropping mana crypt, vampiric tutor, academy rector->omniscience, etc. and acts like it's just normal casual play, or alternatively they'll start to act coy about it like he's the only one who "knows how to build a deck" and so on. i wish there were some basic guidelines to reign people in and make them realize that the format isn't just about tutoring into your wincons

>>51505928
I did mention vintage when I talked about how closely related commander is to it compared to duel commander.

If you think that a 60 card format with no generals is best to look to for guidance when there is already a format that banned similar shit to what was proposed in 100 card singleton with a general.

And that format is fucking awful.

Also, just saying that maybe the vintage metagame is so diverse because of stuff you are allowed to run as 4 ofs.

>>51505980
Vintage is a pretty fun format with strong checks and balances on its massive card pool and only has one real combo deck despite commander being dominated by combo and literally nothing else existing at the competitive level.

The difference between 60 and 100 card libraries is probability, I don't know why your do hung up on that like it's a magical thing.

What's interesting is that if Vintage were to become singleton combo would completely disappear.

Because Commander lets you start with half of your combo already in your hand it should be pretty obvious that the format itself should limit what cards you can play as long as it has commanders.

>>51506047
Are you the same guy that brought up vintage in the first place? Because if you are I don't understand. At first you say that a "fixed" commander ban list will never hit triple digits because vintage has such a small list. Now you are saying that of course you have to ban more cards in EDH than in vintage, since it's an entirely different animal where you end up with a combo piece in hand at game start.

What exactly are you trying to say here, since I didn't want to involve vintage in the first place, it's not a good comparison.

>>51505943
This. Although I do run two pieces of fast mana in almost all my decks (sol ring & mana crypt), I decided to stop running tutors a whike ago. It just turned the game into either "let me find my combo and win" or "in the interest of fun, I won't tutor for a combo piece" which is honestly just stupid. Even tutors like beseech the queen get oppresive when you tutor for an aetherflux reservoir at 132 life.

>>51506155
My argument was that Vintage doesn't ban a single card outside of ante and dexterity cards.

Of course commander with its inherent rules requires a banlist but to say it would be triple digits is stupid. It probably wouldn't even need a banlist as large as modern.

>>51506227
I try to only put in narrow tutors that are there for silver-bullet fetching, rather than shit like Demonic Tutor. The only decks of mine that get all-purpose tutoring are the ones that have no built-in combos to find.

>>51506267
Shaharazad and all conspiracies are banned as well, but your point still stands

my my play group likes to durdle around for a million turns every game, what can i do about this to shake things up? i was thinking infect but im sure i would hear endless bitching if i were to do that

>>51506373
Build an aggro deck like elf ball or some kind of Boros thing, it'll speed things up without you just destroying them

>>51506267
Enough of this probably shit. Show me what a multiplayer ban list of less than 100 that stops people from consistently winning or locking out the board by turn 5 looks like.

Genuinely curious about this, because I think it's pretty hard. Maybe I am the retard though for thinking just talking to your playgroup is easier.

>>51506281
The conspiracies are less 'banned' and more 'only legal in draft'.

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>friend came over yesterday to play magic
>I let him play Brago, like some intelligent anon suggested, I played Jori-En
>he starts off slow, begins to gradually figure things out
>soon he's flickering Frost Lynx and Exclusion Ritual to keep my Void Winnower and Blightsteel down
>he even exiles my Memnarch as I'm about to steal his Brago
>says he had a good time
Man I was nervous, I'm glad everything worked out!

>>51506426
there's something really satisfying about seeing other people pilot your decks well. I have this permanents only RG stompy deck that I always give to newer players and they tend to have a great time with it

>>51506426
Yikes I'm happy everything went better than expected for you man. Hopefully he'll build his own jank decks now.

>Exclusion Ritual in Brago
Spiciest tech, great taste

>>51497566
Play chaos.

>haven't played in almost a month
>finally finished out expensive artifacts deck
>overwhelming urge to start building again

FUCK

>>51496163
>that one guy who says literally every card name wrong

>>51506404
Really just copying the Duel Banlist would do wonders. Although asking for no turn five wins in a legacy card pool is a bit much and not addressing the actual problem, which is that the existing combo deck is more resilient and consistent that virtually any other deck in the format.

Why the hell is is that whenever someone is getting the rules wrong in my extended playgroup, it's always one of the judges? Then they try and act all high and mighty when one of the newer players calls them out on the rule they got wrong, and one of the older players has to look it up and practically shove the screen into the judge's face to get them to admit they were wrong. Every single fucking time it goes like this, and not even the same judge.

>>51506478
I wish Exclusion Ritual worked with commanders, but it's still amazing, particularly since I'm running Duplicant and Phyrexian Ingester too. The only reason he didn't run over me with Myr Battlesphere was because I stole it with Memnarch. I was really impressed, it seemed like he actually understood what was going on.

I let him look through my binder, and I think he just wants to play big fancy demons and cantrips all day, so I'm going to let him play Lazav.

>>51506462
I know right?! This was the first time I've ever had someone pilot my decks against me, and man, I didn't realize how dickish I was. I'm really excited to see what Ghave can do in someone else's hands.

OK guys and gals, I want to try an EDH points system or achievement list or whatever. I just wanna print out some sheet that lets you count points real quick, nothing fancy. Can anyone point me to something I can just print out?

>>51506702
Make it yourself dude, you can hone it to your playgroup that way

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>>51506702
OK I found something that should do the trick for today.
>>51506711
the honing part comes later if I like the point system in general. this here is just me trying to netdeck/get a precon.

>>51506702
Yeah, what >>51506711 said. You don't really want a lot of the existing ones, and you wanna make sure your system doesn't change how decks are built and played too much (take a look at star of david city games first blood to see how a small thing influences play to an annoying degree)

>>51506729
>>51506711
>>51506739
Nevermind. I just typed out the list I posted to print it more easily. It's kinda retarded. Eh whatever, I won't get one made today. Maybe in cooperation with group. Thanks!

>>51506274
Yeah, I forgot to say that, I do that too. I have a shadowborn apostles deck that runs skullclamp as its only equipment, and I run steelshaper's gift too.

>>51506517
What kind of rules are they getting wrong? How embarrassed are they afterwards?
Details anon.

>>51506517
Question: is this a Judge, or a 'judge'?

Because I've encountered basically zero actual judges that are wrong about the rules AND are arrogant assholes, but I've encountered tons of people who CALL themselves judges and fit that bill.

>>51492374
Definitely my favorite Jank politics card with creatures that can deal instant speed damage.

The ability to boardwipe anyone that blocks is hilarious

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>>51506426
>he has frost lynx and exclusion ritual
>you have void winnower and blighsteel
Something doesn't seems right. Granted it was a teaching game but why did you have a blighsteel and void?

Building mono-g Selvala with paradox engine and other untap effects. It seems fun so far. Can anyone recommend me some fun cards to put in the deck to make it interesting and not just stompy? Already have eldrazi

>>51506373
Build a deck based on mld, boardwipes, and overall disruption/removal

No more durdling

>>51507096
Vorinclex, Garruk Wildspeaker, and seedborn muse are all pretty cool and fit with your theme

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>>51507096

>>51507079
That's just how Jori-En rolls. I ramp as hard as I possibly can, draw all the cards, then shit out whatever fatties I happen to get. I ordinarily wouldn't have played them, but the second he told me he had exclusion ritual, and I saw the frost lynx, I thought I'd actually play it out so he could get a good feel for what's going on. He also countered an Inkwell Leviathan and exiled Wurmcoil Engine.

But, to be fair, I played directly into his cards, and durdled until very late game. I let him ping me with Brago all game and intentionally misplayed my t1 Sensei's Divining Top. Like I said yesterday, I really wish I could have built some powered-down decks to teach him a little better, but he got the concept of Brago real quick, so the kiddie gloves won't be needed much longer.

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Im curretly building a grouphug deck with "Pic Related".

It'll have ramp, card draw, tokens, fogs, damage prevention, walls and wins via felidar, test of endurance, hurrycane effects or storm herd... or simply draw with divine intervention.

Having over 15 decks... I figured I should build some cheesy decks.

What cheesy decks you have or plan on building?

>>51506498
I've seen a guy who called his "saprolings" from ghave "sproglings" all game, not understanding why the rest of the table was snickering

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>been playing Aurelia for a long time, it's my first EDH deck and still one of my favorites
>player in my group decides to build Iroas, goes all in, budget isn't an issue
>decide to duel him
>grindiest and most satisfying games of EDH I've had in a long time, somehow more interactive than 90% of what I see in the format, super close results every time
Holy fuck you guys, I love RW. I hope the two of us can make aggro great again in our playgroup.

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>>51507845
>Cheesy decks
BOY DO I HAVE THE GUY FOR YOU

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>>51507834
Ah ok. That's cool anon. I was a little bit worried for a second. It would still be a good idea to have an edh with a similar power level so that the both of you can have fun playing. Hope your friend continues to enjoy edh!

>build Trostani deck
>do okayish
>2 weeks later friend shows up with his new Ghave deck
>literally my deck+1

fuck you Tim

>>51507941
Oh fuck i thought it was the cat image without the text.

>>51507888
Thanks man! Appreciated

>>51507845
What is this, a commander for ants?

>>51507885
I love WR as well despite its drawbacks. My first true edh was gisela but i broke it apart 2-3 years ago. I'm thinking of rebuilding her again but I'm not sure what direction to go.

>>51506498
There's a sperglord in our area who routinely mispronounces "Elspeth" as "Espeleth".

>>51507951
Ghave shouldn't play anything like Trostani.

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>>51508018
Im sorry, my bad.
Sadly, the commander herself isn't exciting, but there you go.

>>51508038
>>51506498
My boss would mispronounce Pharika as Paprika every fucking time. IT WAS HIS GODDAMN COMMANDER

>>51508029
I just like to go as interactive as possible, can't win with pure aggro so you might as well go for the long game and be able to do literally anything with an active Sunforger. Card advantage -is- an issue if they deal with your skullclamp though. WR ain't easy.

>>51508056
>The commander herself isn't exciting

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/v-a-n-i-l-l-a-i-c-e/

>>51508062
I mean, there's a difference between "intentionally mispronouncing/nicknaming something" and "cannot fucking read".

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>Zedruu pillowfort combo
>they hatin' but I'm behind seven proxies
>Mana Maze and Rhystic Study making their lives hell
>Solitary Confinement saves me from certain death
>it's down to me and one other guy
>play Enchanted Evening and Starfield of Nyx, which kills all lands forever
>it's a standoff with his creatures against my animated enchantments
>he thinks he can eventually kill me with his Blood Artist and land drops
>not with my Puca's Mischief on the table
>give him my mana rocks and take his Blood Artist and Sylvan Library
>fill my hand quickly and discard Aura of Silence EOT
>recur it with Starfield and kill off his remaining creatures
>attack with my enchantments for the win

I think this game and a previous one where we played with my Possibility Storm on board for two hours gave them PTSD. They don't want to play against my deck anymore, what do /tg/?

>>51508089
He wasn't intentionally mispronouncing. When we corrected him he'd look at the card, go "Oh right", then start calling her Paprika again the following week.

>>51508103
Don't play pillowfort combo? I mean, I see the appeal of Zedruu, she's pretty cool as far as pillowfort commanders go, but it's no secret that people generally dislike playing against pillowfort and stax more than anything else.

I keep my Daretti stax deck in a separate box, I only bring it out occasionally when I know the rest of the table can handle the aggravation. Maybe do the same with Zedruu.

>>51508106
Well that's frustrating.

There's a lot of goofy nicknaming in our area. One guy only seems to have female Commanders, so we change their names to more mundane things. Instead of Kaalia, Sharuum, and Marath, he has Kelly, Shari, and Martha.

>>51508103
Enchanted Evening and Starfield only kills YOUR enchantments, dipshit.

Is there a way to copy creatures at uncommon/common?

>>51508149
Lands, rather.

>As long as you control five or more enchantments, each other non-Aura enchantment you control is a creature in addition to its other types and has base power and toughness equal to its converted mana cost

>Each other non-Aura enchantment you control

>YOU CONTROL

>>51507941
Both decks are relatively the same powerlevel, and are at the same budget, but since he's brand new, I'm sure he wasn't playing things optimally.

Brago just happens to be a brick shithouse. No fun is allowed, I've neutered it 3 separate times, and it's still a monster. Almost every game involving Brago either winds up with me connecting, then winning, or never connecting and getting blown the fuck out.

>>51508081
Yeah, I seen it, thanks.

It may not be exciting for whoever wanted to see a biger Picture. To me she is really exciting.

I like when people raise eyebrows to what I am doing

>>51508149
>>51508160
Oh yeah, my mistake. There was also my Opalescence on the table.

>>51508134
It's been my pet deck for years. And my only EDH deck. I can see why people are hating on it but I feel like I can't give it up so easily.

>>51508198
That's why you don't throw it in the trash, you just keep it for special occasions. Play more than one deck.

>>51508205
How do I even go about choosing a general? I won't know whether I'll like or dislike playing a deck until after actually spending the money and building it.

>>51506498
I have a friend who does this every fucking time, even when he's been corrected 1000 times. MOTHERFUCKER CAN YOU EVEN READ

>>51508249
What kind of play style do you enjoy? Aside from stax/pillowfort of course.

>>51508249
This is where it's acceptable to proxy; brew up an idea, sleeve what you have, proxy what you don't, and play a few games to see if you like it.

As for picking, go through your binder some day. Look at cards. See what cards/synergies/styles/strategies seem fun, and build around them.

>>51506729
>see this list
>want to make stax derevi
>ensure nobody gets to cast their commander
>they get minus points
>kill everyone else slowly with commander damage
>cast commander 4 times just because while last player stares at me
>don't attack him since I lose points from it
>wait for him to die from drawing out

>>51508327
Typically these rules are backed by common sense. You won't get the -1 if you never got the CHANCE to cast your Commander because of getting staxxed.

Even if this did work, it would work once, and then the rules would get changed, because the intent of these lists is usually to encourage longer games with swingier plays, and discourage "unfun" things.

>>51508158
Are you the same guy from the green manasink question? What are you assembling my man, let us into your brand new spicy idea.

>>51508327
This is why point systems in EDH are bullshit except for order of elimination.

>>51508306
I love brewing around a commander's ability, deck theme or a combo. anything that isn't goodstuff.dec. The more unconventional, the better.

>>51508352
ok, so what if he got the chance to cast it, but decided to use said mana to remove a stax effect? Then never got a chance again?

Does he get a minuspoint then as well?

And there was no clause about him having to have the opportunity to cast his commander in order to get the minuspoints.

>>51508394
You're attempting to legalese some quickly-typed up anti-asshole rules.

That will work for roughly ten seconds, and then everyone's going to continue playing a 3 person game and ignoring that you're at the table.

>>51508249
tappedout.net has a "playtest" functionality where you can try out what playing the deck feels like, and you can do this with anyone's deck to get a feel for the commander in particular.

Here's the point system I used at an EDH tournament.

>each player gets 10 points ($8 entry)
>killing a player gives you 5 of their points
>at the end of the game, each player gives 5 points to another player, depending on who you feel deserved it.

Said points can then be used as store credit.

>>51508406
I don't think that's his point, he's just demonstrating how easy it is to go COMPLETELY against the spirit of the rule while respecting rules as written, and pointing out how these point systems do not prevent asshole plays. Of course someone going all-in in this sort of dickishness would quickly go ignored but small abuses of point systems can run rampant before any sort of action is taken by the group.

>>51508465
That's a fine system for a casual tournament imo.

>>51508470
Oh, for sure. But if you have someone in your group that looks at a points list of "let's encourage goofy and interesting plays for grins" and thinks "how can I abuse this to get the most points?", that is a whole other problem to address, and they're likely not a very well-liked member of the group to start with.

That's why I'm fine with goofy points things in a casual setting or a low-stakes multi-week league where it's harder to abuse the points, but consider them a terrible idea with any kind of real prizes on the line.

>>51508465
I like that. I know it's pretty common for leagues to have a thing to vote for "most fun player" or "most interesting deck" to help encourage people to do something other than WAAC, so that's an interesting metric of it.

Anyone else has an obsession about the card frames in your deck? Do you go for the latest frame, the oldest version of the card, or just the prettiest art?

>>51508533
If it's a card I first played with back in white border days, I'll insist on running white border versions for nostalgia's sake (and trigger value).

>>51508533
I do it in this order:
>Prettiest version
>Oldest version
>Best flavor text

Anything else for me is objectively wrong