Realistic medieval arms, armor and settings

File: IMG_2272.jpg (376KB, 1200x1640px) Image search: [Google]

376KB, 1200x1640px

>>51490760
In the meanwhile I'll post some illustrations

File: IMG_2274.jpg (309KB, 1170x1600px) Image search: [Google]

309KB, 1170x1600px

>>51490778

File: IMG_2275.jpg (25KB, 236x322px) Image search: [Google]

25KB, 236x322px

>>51490790

File: IMG_2276.jpg (62KB, 564x406px) Image search: [Google]

62KB, 564x406px

>>51490805

File: IMG_2277.jpg (89KB, 564x755px) Image search: [Google]

89KB, 564x755px

>>51490837
Some nobles

File: IMG_2278.jpg (138KB, 611x850px) Image search: [Google]

138KB, 611x850px

>>51490850
Some dark age Scandinavians

File: IMG_2279.jpg (97KB, 564x754px) Image search: [Google]

97KB, 564x754px

>>51490861
Some Eastern Europeans for all our Slavs out there

File: IMG_2280.jpg (163KB, 800x1080px) Image search: [Google]

163KB, 800x1080px

>>51490879
The English

File: IMG_2281.jpg (178KB, 736x1049px) Image search: [Google]

178KB, 736x1049px

>>51490892
And I'll wrap up (for now) with armor from all over Europe

File: VES.jpg (42KB, 476x616px) Image search: [Google]

42KB, 476x616px

I have a question that you might have an answer to. What is this type of jacket called? Is it just a Gambeson?

>>51490944
Arming cote in English
But yes it's also known as a Gambeson
I believe name comes from the the three different threads used to make one but I'm not sure

>>51490913
Looks like /tg/ is a bit slow today
Bump?

>Osprey

trashman.png

File: v1-019.jpg (14KB, 205x215px) Image search: [Google]

14KB, 205x215px

Needs some more common soldiery.

>>51491778
Osprey is surprisingly faithful in it's illustrations

>>51491995
>>51491978
Ok I'll get some

File: IMG_2282.jpg (33KB, 236x329px) Image search: [Google]

33KB, 236x329px

>>51491995

File: IMG_2283.jpg (115KB, 611x841px) Image search: [Google]

115KB, 611x841px

>>51492063
Id use something other than osprey but as cool as those old silly little drawings may be, they aren't as aesthetic

File: IMG_2284.jpg (137KB, 564x780px) Image search: [Google]

137KB, 564x780px

>>51492082
Some medieval artillery which everyone forgets existed

>>51492169
Ooo that's dank
Know the Artist name by any chance?

File: beforetewkesbury.jpg (262KB, 679x895px) Image search: [Google]

262KB, 679x895px

>>51492216
Bottom right

>>51492369
I always liked the hats on Nippon gunners

>>51490760
>OP says realistic
>uses the wrong reconstruction as an OP image

File: IMG_2288.jpg (96KB, 269x655px) Image search: [Google]

96KB, 269x655px

>>51492529
>Wrong reconstruction
What does that even mean?
People wore whatever they could afford in late medieval times.
It's also based in style off of a German style of armor.
Pic related, nearly identical but different brigantine and different helmet

>>51490760
There are a few RPGs that do away with "hit points" in favor of more granularity.
One in particular where you take differing amounts of pain, physical trauma and bleeding depending on where and how hard you were hit; trauma and bloodloss (as a result of bleeding) contributes to an increasing risk of dying, whereas pain, bloodloss and exhaustion contributes to an increasing risk of going unconscious.
Pain and exhaustion also increases the difficulty for you to do anything, including participating in combat.

>>51492658
A lot of armor reconstructions are straight up wrong. The most famous is one particular suit of armor at the Met in New York, which among other things has the leg armor hanging sideways. That guy may have been thinking of the Met armor, or there may be a glaring error in the OP suit as well.

Does anyone have realistic armour illustrations from before the Late Medieval period - 12th or 13th centuries?

>>51492721
Got any names?

>>51492803
Both of the ones in the OP. Riddle of Steel, Song of Swords, and all the other games that take from Riddle of Steel like Band of Bastards and Blade of the Iron Throne.

>>51492756
A lot of armor reconstructions are wrong true but for the most part the average soldier in that day and era mixed and match different styles and types.
The only problem is see with the op is the use of more rounded bassinet rather than a pig nose which would have been more common (and in the same time frame as the brigantine) in that particular time

>>51492841
Thanks buddy

File: BNF Arsenal 1186 Psalter of St. Louis and Blanche of Castile, Folio 077r.jpg (192KB, 867x1000px) Image search: [Google]

192KB, 867x1000px

>>51492793
Manuscript Minatures is a great resource for period artwork of armour.

http://manuscriptminiatures.com/

I'm also part of a medieval re-enactment group that covers the 9th-mid 13thC if you have any questions about the armour.

>>51492063
>picture for ants

>>51492998
Interesting time frame
You guys do battles?
Also did anyone wear plate or anything similar at that time?

>>51492094
Well, 1470 is barely medieval. Even not medieval at all if you follow the conventional end year of 1453.

(I do know that cannons were used in 1453 and even before).

>>51493203
Bombards and canons were used earlier but during medieval times not TOO much changed to really have any impact on artillery. Other than it getting bigger of course

File: AU MS 24 Folio 12r (c.1190).jpg (108KB, 1000x888px) Image search: [Google]

108KB, 1000x888px

>>51493081
The time frame is the result of different local chapters of the umbrella group branching off in their own directions from the core period without formally splitting off.

In Western Europe the main armour choices were maille, maille and more maille with gambesons coming during the 12thC. The only plate armour to appear before our date-range ends c.1225 are knee cops and possibly the very earliest Coats of Plates.

And yes, we do battles.

>>51493284
Nice
Got a picture of your kit?

File: WA_31.jpg (504KB, 930x1225px) Image search: [Google]

504KB, 930x1225px

>>51493203
Not that poster but I'm not exactly of the school of thinking that 'medieval' has a hard end date. the transition into the so-called 'renaissance' is so fragmentary and inconsistent to try and nail down hard era labels for medieval and after is pointless pigeon-holing.

And if going for warfare as a metric, 1450s is far too early to stop calling it medieval, hell major traits of medieval warfare are existing into the early 1500s even at the bleeding edge of experimentation and adaptation going on in the Italian Wars.

>>51492756
>>51492658
They used backplates from another armour as skirts in that particular reconstruction. It's actually supposed to have a regular hooped skirt.

>>51493652
Good catch anon
Didn't see that actually

>>51494148
>>51494169
>>51494226
>>51494263
Dank eastern shit is always appreciated!
Does anyone know the details about Japanese firearm construction? If I remember correctly there is t much metal in Japan..

File: 60f73f212c30512b2ce8750f79b9ea15.jpg (92KB, 564x704px) Image search: [Google]

92KB, 564x704px

>>51494294
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanegashima_(Japanese_matchlock)

>>51494193
I like that Morrion, really makes a good impression

>>51494294
>? If I remember correctly there is t much metal in Japan..
That's a dank meme that came about because they indeed did not have enough metal to industrialize and upgrade their fleet to all-steel ships during the 19th and 20st century.

Their deposits suffice for a preindustrial society, but they're inadequate to cover the needs of a modern industry.

File: muffled achtually.jpg (155KB, 736x644px) Image search: [Google]

155KB, 736x644px

I got 2 questions for you anons:
were there ever plate armour designs where the abdominal plate was detached from the chestplate or interlocking under it?
what were the biggest pauldrons around?

Are there any settings or books set in a realistic medieval japan, jap anon?

>>51494527
1. Possibly? Maybe the Dravidian panoply but that doesn't count
2. Pauldron are only big enough to JUST cover the shoulders, in same cases extend down a little to the back. As it goes without saying WoW and Warhammer pauldroms are not a thing

File: 62ea8e4fc440065198b0df255746440f.jpg (104KB, 564x1002px) Image search: [Google]

104KB, 564x1002px

>>51494539
i was recently given a book called heavens net is wide by lian hearn although i have not read it yet
i do keep a pocket hagakure around and read bits of it at a time
and if you count manga then vagabond is a fantastic series with a very nice artstyle

>>51494455
>>51494294

Japanese firearm construction is directly based on European models.

Like they chinese, they were just dicking around with weaponized fireworks, rocket propelled arrows and crude bombs etc, until they copied Portuguese produced snap-matchlocks that some murderhobos that got shipwrecked in japan in the 1500s sold to a japanese lord, who then set about having them copied by local weapon smiths.

>>51494527
>were there ever plate armour designs where the abdominal plate was detached from the chestplate or interlocking under it?

The thing is that the armour wasn't really divided into chest/abdomen, you had the breastplate wich usually had a pronounced flare at the bottom, where it was belted/fastened by other means, because you wanted the weight of it to be resting on your hips, and then you put on the hip/skirt protection over that.

That's why real armour often looks like it has a really narrow waist, it was needed to keep the breastplate from just hanging off your shoulders, which would have been awful.

>>51494627
I too have also read vagabond
Next chapter when

File: e9754b2c0d53cbd2628ebfee7972de40.jpg (88KB, 500x831px) Image search: [Google]

88KB, 500x831px

well its been fun but i am done dumping for now
i may post more later

Thanks for posting

File: 1239640756484.jpg (411KB, 816x1226px) Image search: [Google]

411KB, 816x1226px

>>51490944
That is a quilted bolero jacket, and is not real armour.

>>51490964
Arming cotes are not gambesons, but that is because people use the verbage all over the place. Arming clothing is specifically made thinner and as pointing for armour. Gambesons/jacks etc are stand alone armour in their own right, though are often layered

>>51491778
The art is fine if you know what you're looking for.

>>51494376
Damn straight it does. Nanban armour was high fashion for centuries in Japan, as it was frankly better. Also note his peascod breast plate.

>>51494527
>were there ever plate armour designs where the abdominal plate was detached from the chestplate or interlocking under it?

Tons. Pretty standard for a lot of periods and cultures actually. Placards and breasts being the first to pop to mind. Pic related

>what were the biggest pauldrons around?
Various prehistoric Siberians and Japs are my bet.

Anything from the 5th-9th centuries?

File: Coppergate_Helmet.jpg (500KB, 1497x1496px) Image search: [Google]

500KB, 1497x1496px

>>5149523
Reenactor anon again.

Once again in W.Europe body armour is almost entirely maille, though it is both rarer and gives less coverage compared to the styles used after the 10thC.

However there are a number of different helmet styles in use. The image is of the Coppergate helmet from York, dating to the 8thC.

File: Wollaston Helmet by Heron Armoury.jpg (73KB, 900x1200px) Image search: [Google]

73KB, 900x1200px

>>51495548
This is a reproduction of the Wollaston/Pioneer helmet dating to the early 7thC. It's the same general style as the later Coppergate helmet but lacks a maille aventail or gilded decoration. Whereas the Coppergate helmet has a Christian prayer inscribed on the gilded crossbands, this helmet retains the pagan boar crest.

File: Sutton Hoo helmet front.jpg (114KB, 750x927px) Image search: [Google]

114KB, 750x927px

>>51495677
The Sutton Hoo helmet, now residing in the British Museum.

File: Sutton Hoo helmet right side.jpg (91KB, 750x983px) Image search: [Google]

91KB, 750x983px

>>51495771

File: pic_S_C_Scythian armour (reconstructed).jpg (102KB, 567x527px) Image search: [Google]

102KB, 567x527px

>>51494774
>>51494527
Early greek cuirass had belly plates and some english footmen's armour used skirts that were simply hung into the cuirass.

>what were the biggest pauldrons around?
Back shields like these probably

>>51494665
>Like they chinese, they were just dicking around with weaponized fireworks, rocket propelled arrows and crude bombs etc,

They really weren't, as far as I can gather. They never adopted blackpowder missiles, had very little in the way of siege weapons and gave up on crossbows during late antiquity as well.

File: Vendel 1 helmet.jpg (3MB, 1944x2592px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 1944x2592px

>>51495785
These next 7 items are Vendel period (550-790) helmets, found at the Vendel and Valsgarde boat burial sites in Eastern Sweden. The number refers which grave the helmet was found in.

The lattice of bronze bands on this helmet would have held in place tinned bronze plates cast with various human and animal figures and the fragments of these plates can be seen on several of the surviving examples (including the Sutton Hoo helmet as the East Anglian and Vendel cultures had a suprising degree of relation).

File: Vendel 12 helmet.jpg (308KB, 719x1098px) Image search: [Google]

308KB, 719x1098px

>>51496207

File: Vendel 14 helmet.jpg (132KB, 459x642px) Image search: [Google]

132KB, 459x642px

>>51496218

File: Valsgarde 5 helmet.jpg (136KB, 566x599px) Image search: [Google]

136KB, 566x599px

>>51496233

File: Valsgarde 6 helmet.jpg (65KB, 564x741px) Image search: [Google]

65KB, 564x741px

>>51496270
Apologies for the naff picture, but it was the only decently sized one I had to hand.

File: Valsgarde 7.jpg (931KB, 1519x2047px) Image search: [Google]

931KB, 1519x2047px

>>51496300

File: Valsgarde 8, Vendel Period Helmet.jpg (71KB, 518x666px) Image search: [Google]

71KB, 518x666px

>>51496311
I really like the full face aventail on this one

File: Gjermundbu Spectacle Helm c.980AD.jpg (104KB, 800x864px) Image search: [Google]

104KB, 800x864px

>>51496345
Finally, the Gjermundbu spectacle helm, the only Viking period helm found in Scandinavia and though far plainer does show continuity with Vendel-era designs. Already something of a throwback in 980AD, spectacle helms would be entirely replaced by conical or domed nasals by the dawn of the 11thC.

File: Valsgarde.jpg (80KB, 372x539px) Image search: [Google]

80KB, 372x539px

>>51496345
I fucking love the Valsgarde/Vendel helmets. Especially that one.

File: crossbow cavalry must have been a bitch to fight.jpg (203KB, 924x1167px) Image search: [Google]

203KB, 924x1167px

>>51490760
Who needs armor?

Yo, anybody want some historical art?

>>51495061
>Nanban armour was high fashion for centuries in Japan, as it was frankly better
Do you mean it was outright better or were the Japs just behind technologically?

For example, was western mail better than Japanese mail or xth century western armor was more advanced than xth century Japanese armor?

>>51499861
Yea dude

File: footcombatsParisG179.jpg (219KB, 494x500px) Image search: [Google]

219KB, 494x500px

>>51499920
Western armour was just more advanced due to being able to make much larger plates of high quality steel. The continuous curve of a single sheet is way better at distributing the force of impacts on it than the multiple smaller plates, typically just flat, that the Japanese made.

If you compare the Japanese designs to the western designs of the later medieval onward, you'll see a lot fewer plates used in the european stuff and a lot of riveted articulation between plates rather than lacing. Image related here is mid-1500s super-high end tournament armour for foot combat. Not at heavy as jousting armour but basically the pinnacle of individual protection. Almost entirely covering in plate, including joins. That's the tech difference right there.

File: Cgm_1507_04r.jpg (919KB, 1317x1354px) Image search: [Google]

919KB, 1317x1354px

>>51500562
Sorry for dying but I'm back.

File: Cgm_1507_06v.jpg (561KB, 1225x1333px) Image search: [Google]

561KB, 1225x1333px

>>51502020

File: Cgm_1507_42r.jpg (602KB, 1293x1346px) Image search: [Google]

602KB, 1293x1346px

>>51502071

File: 1336778569496.jpg (40KB, 346x443px) Image search: [Google]

40KB, 346x443px

>>51499920
As >>51500744 mentions, European armour was recognized as metallurgical and structurally superior.

Its the same reason the best smiths imported Korean and Chinese steel for weapons.

File: Cgm_1507_41v.jpg (599KB, 1222x1315px) Image search: [Google]

599KB, 1222x1315px

>>51502086

File: Cgm_1507_41r.jpg (764KB, 1286x1350px) Image search: [Google]

764KB, 1286x1350px

>>51502127

File: Cgm_1507_14r.jpg (638KB, 1307x1353px) Image search: [Google]

638KB, 1307x1353px

>>51502152
Featuring one of my favorite late helmets.

File: Cgm_1507_09v.jpg (562KB, 1217x1317px) Image search: [Google]

562KB, 1217x1317px

>>51502203

File: stephen_de_haccombe_s6_r114.jpg (272KB, 673x2012px) Image search: [Google]

272KB, 673x2012px

>>51502222
Holy fuck quads.

File: bsb00001840_00050.jpg (467KB, 1500x1454px) Image search: [Google]

467KB, 1500x1454px

>>51502293

File: 6466164.jpg (1MB, 1600x2126px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1600x2126px

>>51502304

>>51490760
I got a question about crossbows, and their weight

What is the average draw weight of a 'war' crossbow, throughout the ages? How much did it change?

I know towards the end of windlass crossbows were very popular, but surely there were still hand spanned crossbows in existence?

Or if not, at what point do we see a decline in hand/self spanned crossbows being used on the battlefield or to hunt?

File: 23-2.jpg (510KB, 1073x1143px) Image search: [Google]

510KB, 1073x1143px

>>51502318

>>51502336
Hand spanned crossbows were still useful against poor troops running around in padded armor or maille, but with the proliferation of munitions plate saw windlasses surge in popularity.

>>51490760
>Although realistic settings can turn some people off due to how they remind us of how fragile humans are, there are always a plethora of fun options:

They're a turn-off because they're aesthetically limited and because the RPGs associated with them are typically autism simulators.

Don't kid yourself. Their lack of popularity is not a failure of everyone else.

File: konrad_von_landau_s460_r6565.jpg (557KB, 572x1408px) Image search: [Google]

557KB, 572x1408px

>>51502346

File: RusVsad_tegilay.gif (42KB, 584x520px) Image search: [Google]

42KB, 584x520px

Requesting pole weapons used by cavalry that weren't lances

>>51502434
Or maybe different people like different things, and having a wide variety of games that tackle different aesthetics ranging from realistic to surreal high fantasy is a good thing. It may even be a good thing for people to step outside of their comfort zones and try different things, and for people who like autism simulators to try abstract narrative games and surreal high fantasy and for people who like extreme fantasy or narrative games to try autism simulators because they might find some aspect of the hobby they didn't appreciate before. That's a possibility.

Nah. People who like niche things are probably retarded.

>>51494539
>books set in a realistic medieval japan
Genji Monogatari, can't get more realistic than that. Though it's Heian period, not the classical samurai age.

>>51502318
Did he just want to look super edgy?

>>51504743
Trying out for a roll in Griffiths apostle army

>>51491995
The handgonne needs more love on rpgs

>>51490850
Would Louis there on the left wear his silly bear-head thing to battle, or that just tournie bling?

File: Black Prince Funeral Achievements replicas.jpg (526KB, 1020x728px) Image search: [Google]

526KB, 1020x728px

>>51507436
It's called a Cap of Achievement, and is just a fancy hat perched on top of the Great Helm.

While I'm sure there was at least one fabulous knight who wore it in combat, it is pretty much bling for tournies, processions and ceremonies.

Did plate armour ever become cheap enough that your average men-at-arms could afford it?

>>51490760
for the record - the lineage is:
harnmaster -> riddle of steel -> song of swords

>>51507743

Not full harnesses, but many things were available.

File: 15thC. Plate vs Maille production & cost.png (126KB, 795x316px) Image search: [Google]

126KB, 795x316px

>>51507743
Yes.

By definition a "Man-at-arms" is a fully armoured warrior capable of mounted combat and while all knights were men-at-arms not all men-at-arms were knights. If they are not equipped with whatever counts as full armour for the day they are not men-at-arms.

However if the question is rephrased as "was plate armour ever cheap enough for the average soldier" the answer is still yes. Munitions plate is the name given to the cheap and cheerful armour that workshops mass produced in a few standard sizes and then exported all across Europe and beyond.

In fact Munitions plate was cheaper than maille; a munitions breastplate might take 2 days to make while a maille shirt could take 2 months, most of which is highly skilled labour to draw the wire to make the links. The picture is a screenshot from "The Knight and the blast furnace" which covers the technology and economics of armour production.

>>51507672
doesnt it add recognizability?

>>51494294
Really High Quality steel is hard to get in Japan, so for shit like swords they had construction methods that dealt with that.

Guns don't need super high quality metal to function. Japan had plenty of metal to build whatever it wanted, before they industrialized.

File: BL Royal 16 G VI Chroniques de France ou de St Denis Folio 376v.jpg (322KB, 1265x619px) Image search: [Google]

322KB, 1265x619px

>>51508133
To a degree that's true.

But the kind of person who might wear a cap of achievement is already carrying a heraldic shield, wearing a heraldic jupon (padded coat worn over the armour) and probably riding a warhorse in a heraldic caparison with heraldic pennants on his lance and near a standard bearer with a great big heraldic flag. That is a lot of heraldy and there is a limit to what a hat that could be easily knocked off really adds in regards to recognising someone.

They are a great accessory in a tourney though where practicality is less of a concern and you can go all in with looking fabulous.

>>51494539
The Book of the Five Rings by Miyamoto Musashi (1645). More or less the Japanese version of "The Art of War."

Nansō Satomi Hakkenden by Kyokutei Bakin. A weird fantastical epic about 8 Samurai who come together to restore a dying clan.

As for setting, Sengoku is by far the most accurate RPG available about Japan. See if you can find a pdf.

>>51499920
Mostly Japan didn't have the quality of steel necessary to make metal plate, and because of that their blacksmiths never really developed on the technology.

Foreign metal armor, especially Morions and Breastplates, were extremely highly sought and therefore very expensive.

>>51495061
>Arming cotes are not gambesons, but that is because people use the verbage all over the place. Arming clothing is specifically made thinner and as pointing for armour. Gambesons/jacks etc are stand alone armour in their own right, though are often layered

I would say that an arming doublet and a Gambeson are more or less on a continuum, with the Arming Doublet at the "thinnest" side and Gambesons intended for standalone use on the "thickest" side with a bunch of different examples in between based on preference.

>>51492756
>>51493652
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2oTy6dYPPE

>>51507975
Yeah there's a reason the breastplate stayed when the rest of plate disappeared. Shit was easy as fuck to make.

>>51508761
its also weight distribution and effectiveness.

plate armour grew heavier and thicker due to firearms. that's not too bad on the chest. but if you're having to get thicker and thicker on the limbs, you lose mobility, because thicker plates dont articulate as well as thin ones, and because weight impairs ability to move and react - neither of which are desirable in a fight.

so the limbs were abandoned - lower legs first, then upper legs, then arms, then gauntlets, leaving the breast as the only part because extra weight on the chest is less impairing than elsewhere.

Could arrows from a longbow penetrate plate armour, or is that pure hollywood stuff?

>>51509132
penetrate, injure, and kill are three different things.

there's several records of knights being pinned through the leg to their dead horse by a longbow arrow.
Limb armour was thin enough that if you were unlucky and were hit square-on, then it will go through.

through breast and helm? no. Worst-case with those parts was it would pierce the breast and go in about an inch - and the breast normally has an inch of padding/air between the metal and the body.

so, injuries to limbs? yes.
major injury to the body? No. longbows didnt have the power to do that normally.

Of course there's always one freak occurrence, but general on-average safety, plate was extremely good at what it did.

>>51509030
True but it was also an intersection of weight effectiveness versus a measurement of cost. The breastplate was the most one-size-fits-all armor plate, covered the most, and wasn't exceptionally expensive to make. The cost of making some knight custom plate for his limbs could probably train and equip 3 arquebusiers. Those are far more useful on the battlefield.

>>51509132
>>51509207

A trio of excellent videos with Matt Easton and Toby Capwell talking about armour and arrows in celebration of the 600th anniversary of Agincourt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukvlZcxNAVY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yewwhjUYEPQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHqo4syIqD8

>>51509372
These look very interesting. Maybe I'll watch them at some point, once I find my will to do things again.

>>51509282
Relatively more useful*
Your knights could lay in weight and just swarm the arquebusiers with a coordinated charge.
Hence why arquebusiers would fire and then run and get behind pikes or zweihanders (depending if your Swiss or French) as they would provide as a deterrent to charges.
Which THEN could be countered by mounted gunners who run up to pikeman lines, shoot them and then retreat.
WHICH THEN lead to your own knights and outriders to chase down the mounted gunners and defeat them in mounted combat.
At a certain period in time, everything was so beautifully balanced.
(I'm not accounting for other factors; such as bombards, archers, crossbowmen, ambuscades i.e.)

>>51509132
No not really
They could go pretty far though

What kind of food could on find in a medieval to renaissance inn?
Just a query
Also did Italy in the 15th century even have inns?

>>51510502
Why wouldn't it have inns?

Also, read Decameron, it's a great source of information about everyday life in late medieval Italy.

>>51510502
Once I get off work I'll post a link or two I've saved to medieval recipes sites

>>51511442
Alright I await eagerly

>>51503754
Your insecurity is showing. I never claimed any such thing.

>>51510502
I'm not the guy who said he'd drop links, but here is a link. Recipes are divided by region and century.
http://medievalcookery.com/recipes/

>>51510502
>>51511442
>>51512861
Yeah that was one of them. Here is the other I have

Godecookery.com

>>51494336
is that helmet one solid piece, or a bunch of smaller plates riveted together

>>51514586
Smaller strips riveted onto strips of metal.
Think of the skeleton of a old timey ship and the wooden planks nailed onto the sides

File: mace morningstar.jpg (8KB, 300x276px) Image search: [Google]

8KB, 300x276px

So I love morningstars and similar weapons quite a bit but I feel like I don't know much about them or see them much? Who would have used morningstars or other variations of "spiked metal but not always sticks"? Knights? Soldiers? Conscripts?

What kind of character do you imagine wielding a morningstar (and yes I realize that any type of character can use any kind of weapon just fine I just mean what do you picture?)

Also morningstars please. Maces are allowed too.

>>51507907
I haven't played Harnmaster ever, only heard about it. I know the setting is based on Norman Conquest England, or at least that time period, but how is the system?

File: bar_mace.jpg (29KB, 500x320px) Image search: [Google]

29KB, 500x320px

>>51515064
people used maces when they wanted to fuck up people with armor. Anyone would use one, but they were commonly used by knights on horseback or men at arms. Most conscripts would probably have a dagger and spear, with whatever armor and extra weapons were passed on from their family

personally I like maces on my poorer characters because they have fit the image of less trained people using less "finesse" weapons. If I'm playing a crossbowman or arquebusier, I'll have a warpick on my belt

bar maces are cool too

>>51515064
Look up the goedendag, an army of Flemish farmers defeated a larger army using them

File: Gotendag.jpg (466KB, 1536x2048px) Image search: [Google]

466KB, 1536x2048px

>>51515254
The fieldworks did way more than a club with a spike in it ever did though.

File: IMG_0586.jpg (2MB, 4032x3024px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 4032x3024px

My mother was just rummaging around in her attic and found a knife that was given to her 1st husband. After he passed away, I assume she stored it away and kinda forgot about it, because I never knew about it despite growing up 100 feet from it.

She sent me these pics, and I've never seen anything like it before. Apparently it has a brass back, as you can see in the pic. Has anything like this been common or done on fighting knives?

File: IMG_0587.jpg (2MB, 4032x3024px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 4032x3024px

>>51515632
Close up on the brass

File: Type IV Mace (4).jpg (115KB, 800x523px) Image search: [Google]

115KB, 800x523px

>>51515064
Conscripts really were not a feature of medieval warfare, not least because soldiers were required to supply their own equipment and even the non-noble soldiers tended to be middle class or better. A good example are English longbowmen from the HYW who were paid wages equivalent to a highly skilled craftsman while on campaign had to provide not only thier bows, but also helmets, gambeson, swords and bucklers from their own pocket.

Maces were pretty rare in Western Europe until the mid/late 13th century. They were however very popular in Eastern Europe and the Middle East throughout the medieval period.

>>51515254
>an army of Flemish farmers defeated a larger army using them

Farmer is an odd way of saying well-drilled, well armed and well armoured city militia.

>>51515713
>Farmer is an odd way of saying well-drilled, well armed and well armoured city militia.
Yea the Flemish are weird like that.

>>51512761
You literally used the words "autism simulators".

How is that not calling the people playing them retards?

>>51515713
>Conscripts really were not a feature of medieval warfare
What about peasant levies? Would've thought that they would fit the definition of "conscript" by any measure.

>>51517018
>What about peasant levies?
Near nonexistant in reality. Risking your breadbasket against professional killers is in general, a silly idea.

>>51517222
I suppose that does make sense.

Hey, you seem a historically-learned person, there's something I've been wondering about. Something of a question of history.

I know that the idea of the medieval "tech-level" never advancing until the Renaissance is a myth, how could I go about setting up a similar gradual advancement in my own setting?

What are the limiting factors in such a situation, I mean?

>>51517357
Here is the problem: A gradual shift in technological advancement on a large scale, before industrialization, is a process that, while quantifiable, is excruciatingly slow in a time measurement. Minor changes and improvements over the course of several decades to centuries.

To put it into perspective, our positively explosive advance from magnetic tape data storage to digital still took almost half a century.

My suggestion is to pick a vague period analogue and present advance technology from the base of "possible" tech based on knowledge and the next couple decades. For example, think of Warhammer Fantasy, in its NOT!16thC tech level, where DaVinci style advancements, along side the more fantastic.

>>51517357
Limiting factors:
Prevalence of geographical barriers
Wether or not there have been large scale campaigns in far away lands
Trade and exploration
Cities where people come together
Agricultural revolutions
Size (or prevalence and power) of the middle class
Amount of warfare
Other cultures that would be too far away for your characters to go and visit and their tech level
That's all I can think off the top of my head.
Also the guy you commented is a historian and posts on a few boards
(He's famous)

>>51517526
Hrm, right.

The thing is that most of my story is being written retrospectively, from as far bad as the author knows to the present, when he's writing it.

File: UWGB Linothorax Project.jpg (838KB, 3600x1800px) Image search: [Google]

838KB, 3600x1800px

Any love for the linothorax? best classical antiquity armour right here

File: attachment.php?attachmentid=69210&stc=1&d=1192332817.jpg (41KB, 671x270px) Image search: [Google]

41KB, 671x270px

>>51515632
>>51515648
I've read that a fair amount of old bowie knives had brass backs. The idea was that an opponent's harder steel blade would cut into the brass back, making it easier to control and possibly disarm.

>>51517838
Well, then I can't help you unless I knew every single detail of your world's timeline. The list that >>51517547 provides isn't even a small fraction of the variables that can decide such growth.

Unless you wanna go "lol, wizards did it".

File: 2332724985_0177ffa9cf_z.jpg?attachauth=ANoY7cp3Fb2od4efbt3O2VSQRLQ0dKYo_bncfUbOAIrUfmzk6bf3k3miHWTBLe_MNkEHFJJey-wad5DN_jnD3nSQwRkg_7tuREYxRcvaDNSAsxPliPhadLzs0gkEx1MoMbauT1-QZzUdrNpa6icJsOMDA6Vq1eevqTc1QS7v2plDyAn-ILVDT6zuBiMIAfsbZK2PKW9XmEJZV6M6LR-RS4L1.jpg (154KB, 463x640px) Image search: [Google]

154KB, 463x640px

I dig the aesthetic of corrazinas, even if they weren't used for very long and not much better than what came befor it.

>>51521264
Why?
They look so fat

File: Armor - composite.jpg (208KB, 500x723px) Image search: [Google]

208KB, 500x723px

>>51518901
My gut feeling is that you're not going to cut deep enough into the brass, especially not with a knife, to really get all that much control going. It may give your a better feeling for what your opponent does by biting in a bit, but that'd only last while it's still at that spot, and that kind of bind play doesn't seem like it'd be a big thing with knives to me. Too quick to disengage and attack elsewhere. Then again, bowie fighting ain't exactly my forte, feel free to drown me in evidence to the contrary.

>>51521264
They weren't used at all. It's a creation of a museum curator somewhere around the previous turn of the century who took some assorted old bits and assembled into something which he thought made sense, or at least looked like it could make sense. The result unfortunately isn't any more historical than grinding down a 19th century kitchen knife to make a modern "tanto point" folder would be.

The rest of the harness is supposedly quite a mess as well, the spaulders for example are nowhere near what they should be, IIRC being slightly repurposed bits of pauldron, worn on the wrong shoulders.

The MET may be a bit reluctant to be completely honest about the quality level of the whole thing out of respect fro their grand old master, but from what I've understood they aren't terrible fond of displaying it either nowadays.

>>51517958
Daily reminder that the Aldrete linothorax experiment is at best seriously flawed and there is exactly zero evidence that glue was ever used. https://myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?p=299263

>>51509132

Maybe at point-blank range, at a certain angle, and only if the bowman is strong enough. I dunno, plate mail is a bit of a broad term in the general sense that they differ in design and thickness.

>>51523138
Don't forget it's also thinnest at the limbs

File: devil on your shoulder.gif (1MB, 300x217px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 300x217px

>>51523014
Okay WOW was not aware, doing research into this now. Sheeiiiit.

File: 1473614513674.jpg (898KB, 1024x1195px) Image search: [Google]

898KB, 1024x1195px

I need Bronze weapons and armor.

OP here...
Didn't honestly expect a thread like this to reach 200 replies!
I thought the only thing that got /tg/ going was trolling and Warhammer?

File: Lunate_Spearhead.jpg (214KB, 800x375px) Image search: [Google]

214KB, 800x375px

>>51524729
On occasion you can wring something else out of us.

>>51516809
That's because they are autism simulators. They typically model a level of detail that serves no purpose but maintaining a particular designer's hangups and nothing else.

File: agamemnon_panoply_03_847.jpg (232KB, 540x640px) Image search: [Google]

232KB, 540x640px

>>51524450
It's ok, if you are not a specialist in the subject or don't know the history of the experiment it does look pretty convincing. And the whole glue thing has been floating around for so long there is a big list of sources that all cite each other so it is only when you go back to the actual evidence that you can see what a game of chinese whispers the whole thing is.

The best that can be said is that on the whole we are slowly getting better and some of the old wives tales accepted as orthodoxy are being challenged.

There is no excuse for the sloppiness and distortion of evidence in Aldrete's project though.

File: 77110_435283569899423_631219636_n.jpg (75KB, 639x960px) Image search: [Google]

75KB, 639x960px

>>51524898
I wasn't talking about linothorax though.

>>51524774
So you're not saying people who like different things are retarded, they're just retarded for liking different things. Good to know.

File: qt314.png (308KB, 700x831px) Image search: [Google]

308KB, 700x831px

>>51524944
obvs he meant to reply to the linothorax guy

So, is there is any art of easternised full plate?

My main gripes with western armor, the more advanced ones is that they are all mostly grey, I am not saying that they are bad, just a bit lacking in life, I undestand the knights went function first, but plate armor with decorations are rare, and most of them don't have colored bits.

And yes, I know that renaisansse (sorry if its wrong, I am a ESL) munitions armor had color, but that mostly the cloths underneat it.

>>51522527
>They weren't used at all.
Corazzina's were used all the time. They consisted either of a two part covered breastplate with faulds fastened in the front, or a covered breastplate with multiple plates in the back fastened on the back or sides.

File: IMG_2302.jpg (340KB, 1199x1500px) Image search: [Google]

340KB, 1199x1500px

>>51525198
Plate armor is retardedly colorful,
A piece of cloth known as jupon goes on top of the plate armor and add vibrancy.
Feathers were a thing.
Shields in earlier times were often colorful.
Armor could be blackened.
Torses and mantling was a popular option. (Headbands with headdresses)
Velvet was used for joints like in the armor above.
Also gold
Let me know if you need more examples

>>51525892
> TFW You will never go at a larp with an armor as classy as this one
Custom-made armor are so expansive...

>>51525932
True but at least there's always HMB. You can always rock your team colors on a jupon or a tabard.

File: 2043225661_6ccdfb6477.jpg (177KB, 500x400px) Image search: [Google]

177KB, 500x400px

>>51525198
>>51525892

Don't forget heat treatment to give the steel a blue or purple hue and good old fashioned paint.

While having the bare metal polished for the classic "knight in shining armour" look was certainly one option it was far from universal. Part of the problem is that a lot of surviving examples that were originally painted had that paint deliberately removed by 19th century collectors who wanted "clean" armour that fit their stereotyped image of what armour should look like.

>>51526000
What the hell is HMB? I'm a Belgian fag

>>51526089
Historical Medieval Battle
Look up IMCF or Battle of the nations

File: IMG_2303.jpg (808KB, 2000x1437px) Image search: [Google]

808KB, 2000x1437px

>>51525198
Some examples of colorful plate

File: 21ee3a953d8bd1084269701bbfd1a4a7.jpg (68KB, 467x700px) Image search: [Google]

68KB, 467x700px

>>51525198
We are running out of image space so I'll just paste the link to a brilliant BBC documentary about the Greenwich armour-workshop and the quest for the most fabulous armour money can buy hosted once again by Toby Capwell.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FG8X1sF9kas&index=5&list=PLM4S2hGZDSE6V20nBZc2fJbkYZgHq1yNG

Never let it be said that plate armour had to be plain.

>>51524402
>>51523014
The tested both glued and quilted and concluded that quilted is a best.

A best.

File: Ancient greek full plate.jpg (210KB, 720x960px) Image search: [Google]

210KB, 720x960px

>>51524402
Holy crap. Whats that .gif from?

>>51524450
I gotcha bro.

>>51526089
Buhurt. Armoured steel submission fighting.

Ya'll have a national team.

>>51525198
Its assumed that a lot more plate was painted than you think. Much of it got destroyed by victorian "curators" who wanted to show off the stereotypical alwhyte or "knight in shining armour" look.

File: 1351366012064.jpg (505KB, 1024x680px) Image search: [Google]

505KB, 1024x680px

>>51528555
>>51528555

File: teppo.jpg (15KB, 275x183px) Image search: [Google]

15KB, 275x183px

>>51508703
Uh, Japanese metallurgy was just fine. Nanban-do were commonly of domestic manufacture, and Japanese arquebus production far exceeded the West at the same point in time during the Sengoku. The following Edo period was relatively peaceful and saw a very large draw-down in the production of arms and armour.

File: toseigusoku.jpg (46KB, 494x512px) Image search: [Google]

46KB, 494x512px

>>51528900
Even before smiths began copying imported European cuirasses, Japanese armour had already begun to shift to the usage of large iron plates - the "tosei-gusoku" of the Sengoku era had breastplates made from several metal plates, and generally as time went on smiths began using fewer larger plates for better integrity.

I think the mistaken perception of Japanese armour being made of something other than metal comes mostly from the fact that the armour was almost always lacquered regardless of the base material, giving all armour a fairly uniform appearance.

File: 1336776100816.jpg (85KB, 278x541px) Image search: [Google]

85KB, 278x541px

>>51528900
>Japanese metallurgy was just fine
Imported iron and steel was a huge deal throughout japanese history for a reason.

>Nanban-do were commonly of domestic manufacture
Then its not nanban-do

>Japanese arquebus production far exceeded the West at the same point in time during the Sengoku

Now that, I demand hard documentation on, because that sounds like the biggest load of bullshit.

>>51529019
Actually Japan exported several types of metals throughout the Sengoku. Noel Perrin's "Giving Up the Gun" notes that the Dutch found Japanese copper *cheaper* to import for the purposes of casting bronze cannon. Likewise English reports indicated that there was no market for European iron - domestic Japanese production being far cheaper and just as good.

File: teppo2.jpg (306KB, 1800x1196px) Image search: [Google]

306KB, 1800x1196px

>>51529019
>>51529019
Hard numbers of teppo production are difficult to get, but we know that by 1600 Kunitomo, just one of several towns engaged in firearms manufacture, employed 500 artisans in 70+ foundries. Sakai, another major production centre, reached an average of 290 guns a year in the1620s, and reached an all time high of 2,500(!) guns a year in the 1660s - these figures drawn from "Tanegashima: The Arrival of Europe in Japan" by Olof G. Lidin, mostly from sourcing orders placed in writing.

Weapon production declined massively under the relatively peaceful rule of the Tokugawa.

>>51529019
>>51529501
>>51529605
Other hard numbers that point to the scale of teppo manufacture is the number of gunners required by levies for the Korean invasion by Hideyoshi (the Imjin War) - a staggering 160,000 gunners, representing nearly a quarter of the invasion force (this one is also found in Perrin's "Giving Up the Gun: Japan's Reversion to the Sword 1543-1879"

Finally, "nanban-do" simply refers to a "style" of armour, not the actual point of origin of the pieces. Even if the cuirass itself was of Portugese manufacture, the kote, suneate, and other armour pieces like the picture you posted would undoubtedly have been domestically made in any case. Besides, a full-iron or full-steel breastplate of the same sort would not have been any more costly, materials-wise, than an equivalent suit of tosei-gusoku which would also have used metal entirely for the torso armour sections.

File: 1439099444635.jpg (49KB, 480x640px) Image search: [Google]

49KB, 480x640px

>>51529501
Definitely looking the book up now, thanks.

>>51529605
You are comparing one country two an entire chunk of continent. 2,500 a year is nothing. The French Royal Department of Ordinance were proofing nearly 200 muskets a week during the Franco-Dutch war according to the records.

>>51529725
>Finally, "nanban-do" simply refers to a "style" of armour, not the actual point of origin of the pieces
>Finally, "nanban-do" simply refers to a "style" of armour, not the actual point of origin of the pieces

Except its not Nanban-do if its not using European armour as the base. If you remove the peascod and cabasette, it is no longer Nanban.

>Besides, a full-iron or full-steel breastplate of the same sort would not have been any more costly, materials-wise, than an equivalent suit of tosei-gusoku which would also have used metal entirely for the torso armour sections.

Thats not the point. The point is, metallurgical and structurally, the European armour is superior, as well as conspicuous consumption showing status hence the popularity.

>>51529019
>>51529501
>>51529605
>>51529725
One important qualifier to all this is that keep in mind population density in Japan was for the most part very high - a very respectable 11-20 million in the 1600s, which puts in somewhere in the same region as 1600s France in terms of scale and size.

>>51529794
"Europe" as a whole was definitely a mistake made in haste - probably me misremembering something. One country in Europe is probably a better comparison like you said - something like France as I note in the population comparison >>51529844, and probably greater economic output than England which would have been ~5 million in the 1600s.

>>51529862
Also, that Sakai figure is just one production centre out of many (albeit one of the most prolific) - Kunitomo, Negoro, various towns in Kyushu, and several different monasteries and temples were producing throughout the Sengoku era.