Age of Sigmar General ! /aos/

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How popular is AoS in your area and what points limit do usually play at?

>>51485341
I'm still building my army so I wouldn't know how locals play

>>51485341
Its slowly becoming THE most popular game. First it overtook 40k at all 3 FLGS (only 1 is a GW) and now I see more people painting/playing/building/talking about AOS than even Warmahordes

>>51485341
pretty popular.
Most played are sylvaneth and seraphon by FAR.
then its pretty much balanced between the other alliances. we usualy play between 2k5 and 4k

>>51485341
At my store, about as popular as 40k. Every time I go to my GW, it's pretty common to see 40k and AoS being played at the same time most days.

As for point value, the tournaments here tend to sit at 2000 points, but most friendly games seem to be either 1000 or free play.

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>stormcast preorders going up this weekend
>still no word on new priest warscrolls to go with new prayers
>still cant get relictor outside the starter box

Are we really stuck with the Relictor and Veritant?

>>51485341
Both AoS and 40k are practically dead around here. There's a Bloodbowl league happening but that's probably gonna die out as well.

>>51485341

I haven't seen a AoS game in my store for two months. Most people play 40K or Warmahordes.

>>51485341
It's currently the most popular game.

But that's only because it's the manager's wargame of choice and shoves it down people's throats. He switches promoting games every few months, and throws every other game under the bus, going as far as to mock people that play other games.

Hell, people show up to play a casual game of 40k and he spends the whole time being a peanut gallery talking about how bad the rules are the whole time.

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>>51485511
>>still cant get relictor outside the starter box

What? No way.

>Check the GW site
>It's true

What the fuck?

>>51485341
>>51485341
It was the only game we played for several months. They are usually "small" 1000 to 1500 point games.

I play grots so there is no such thing as a small game

>>51485582
They might actually release him on his own soon if there's enough demand

>>51485789
Of which there isn't, because his bog-standard prayers are not that good. Although that isn't really a massive argument for why he doesn't have his own kit, considering that the Bloodsecrator and Bloodstoker (which are good) also don't have a standalone kit.

>>51485581
why does he still have customers again ? are you all such betafaggots you cant go anywhere else or create a club ?

>>51485827
I really do find his damage debuff prayer a lot more effective than his healing one. I will often send him after a big monster or hero to shoot. The mortal wounds can be negated or avoided, but if the prayer goes off, -1 to-hit doesn't seem like much, but it's saved more of my retributors stuck in the big baddie than I like to count. There are other means of providing that -1 to-hit, but i think people find him such a low-threat, they generally ignore him and his mediocre prayers

>>51486319
The problem with the Relictor is that his prayer is only 12" range and it happens in the hero phase so you can't move to position before using it.

But he's also only 80 points so if the new prayers are good then he will see play

>>51485341
It's decently popular. My town has a lot of game stores, and two that I go to have AoS games every weekend.

A friend of mine is telling me that my tomb kings are getting banned soon. Which gives me the shits, is this baseless whining or is there substance to this claim.

>>51486554
They're definitely getting banned, so you should send me them before it's too late! :)

>>51486554
Baseless whining.

>>51486573
Sure man, post your address, ill pay for shipping

Ok so I made my commander-type deck for an upcoming tournament. What do you guys think?

Aspiring Deathbringer - Lord of War, Crown of Conquest - 80
Bloodsecrator - 120
Slaughterpriest - 100

30x Bloodreavers - Axes - 180
10x Blood Warriors - Axes, Glaive - 200
6x Mighty Skullcrushers - Glaives, Standard, Horn - 320
5x Wrathmongers - 180
30x Bloodletters - Gore-drenched Icon, Horn - 300
10x Flesh Hounds - 200

Soul Grinder - Claw - 280

1960/2000

Should I change anything?

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>>51486646
ding ding ding

Haven't started playing, but most games just feel like two armies mashing together and then rolling dice until one of them gets wiped out. Are there any games where mobility and positioning becomes key, where units get charge bonuses and you have to move them in and out of engagement to simulate cavalry charges and such?

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So I've been looking through the AoS Hinterlands fan supplement and I am really liking what I'm seeing. I really want to get a campaign running at my flgs but I'm not sure how to drum up interest; especially since my friends much to far away to join in and everyone else just plays mtg and 40k. I've tried to get a league running for a different game there before, I put up flyers, posted on the facebook page, offered free stuff, got my face out there and left contact information, but still no one responded/showed up. Do you guys have any advice on how to succesfully recruit some people, I would really appreciate it.

>>51486834
>I haven't played but most games feel like

Shut up.

>>51486829
Whelp, I only got that Soul Grinder with his 16" move to combat that. Not sure what else I could do.

>>51486900
Sorry 12"

>>51486834
try playing with objectives and the correct amount of terrain

>>51486056
Closest other store is almost 3 hours away.

Gaming in the midwest sucks.

>>51486834
Play with the generals handbook battleplans. Don't do whfb level of terrain, do more like 40k level of terrain

>>51486834
I know you bait with a pasta, but for goood mesure I'll also post the pasta.

In 5th, you took your heroes?graeter deamons and mashed them against other heroes because each was capable of wiping any unit you could throw at them. Turn 2 the heroes were in close combat and the game was done. Movement had little to no importance.

In 7th, aka broken fest that splitted the community, deamons were so op you would only ever see those in tournament and the basic idea was to charge everything and win because you were deamons. Movement had little to no importance.

In 8th, we got shit like 40 T7 ASF white lion with a lfie mage an BannerOfWorldDragon., Chosenstars, Auto-undisspelable Skaven 13th spell, 5 block of 5wide 8 deep skavenslaves for 400points as autoinclude that hold better than any unit in the game tanks to ld10 shenanigans, Cannons everywhere, Wraith congalines, Slayers congalines, Unkillable chaos lord on disks, unkillable regenerative nurgle prince, army wiper slaanesh prince, Irongut hordes with 2+ deny magic banner, lone sabertusk that could bug unit out of the game for 2 turns, unchargeable rule-exploit skinkcloud, broken dark rider stars that couldn't be charged either, Blenderlords, the StatBull that could statistically kill every other hero in the game, dwarf sit-in-a-corner-and-wipe-everything-with-artillery and, last but not list, the 100+ TK poisonned squelettons with khalida.
Game were decided with the army list you bring and movement had no importance because of how broken and stupid it was.

So yes, when we compare this to Aos, Aos is infinetly more tactical and movement based.

>>51487041
>do more like 40k level of terrain
most 40k tables I've ever seen had like, a ruin or two, and maybe a few scattered pieces of overly small terrain that really did nothing

>>51487091
Accordding to this 8th resembeld the whfb fluff pretty well. Not that it makes for a good game, but still....

How do special unit weapons work with understrengh squads. Lets say I have only 2 paladins, can I give them both the buff up weapons just as if they were a 5 man squad. I mean I am paying points for them as if I was playing with 5. Or is there some rule against it?

>>51487041
I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that you split the table in six squares and for each square you put down d3 pieces of terrain.

>>51487205
No, you have to pay as if they were a 5 man squad but they're not a 5 man squad when it comes to special weapons.

>>51487205
you treat it as if it were a full strength squad that is missing models

perhaps your army had the full number, but a few of them are AWOL and don't make it to the battle

>>51487300
that is stupid. this means they are penalizing people for buying start collecting boxs instead of unit boxs.

But are there maybe heros for the stormcasts that are armed like paladins, I could run the paladins as them and buff up my points. Or are there no paladin heros?

>>51487205
Do you *have* five guys in that unit? No? No special weapons for you, then. It's not that hard to understand.
Also, please just get that fucking Easy to Build: Retributors box.

>>51487349
You could always buy the start collecting. It comes with two paladins to complete the squad.

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>>51487360
Oh hey, didn't even know this existed.

>>51487349
We keep telling you that the Start Collecting box for Stormcast is stupid on its own. The sooner you accept that, the better.
You can convert a bunch of heroes from the regular paladin box, but there are no heroes armed with giant hammers. Also, the snapfit Retributors are more difficult to convert.

>>51487384
I dont have the money to buy any more models. I thought that a start collecting set. Would be like from other games, where you get a small working army. I am probably stupid, but I didn't expect that one would have to buy extra boxs to play with the stuff in the starter set.

>>51487391
Well people were telling to get the starter set. No one told me there are two.

There still any sites that have the bretonnian battallion box?

>>51487453
It used to be a completely working army until match play was a thing.

>>51485582

>3D print that shit because fuck copyright, amirite?

>>51487471
ebay

>>51487453
It's called start COLLECTING not start playing. just dont play the paladins until you get more.

>>51487782
Am already playing with fewer points the other people, and that is with paying full for units that are not full. If I remove the paladins I may as well not play at all till may. And I have to do a weekly update to my teacher what am doing with the hobby.

>>51487898
This site is for people aged 18 and up.

>>51487898
How about you fuck right off, you little pikey

>>51487898
>>51487945
My sides

>>51487898
What kind of bullshit assignment is that?

How should I equip a unit of brutes. And how many should I have?

>>51485341
hasn't overtaken 40k yet around me, but there are a few loyal players. I run Stormcast, Sylvaneth, and Khorne Bloodbound. I usually face off with Skaven, Nurgle, Khorne Daemons, and Ogors. Our store manager has a Sylvaneth; she's solid with them. We had a Death guy, but I haven't seen him in a while.

>>51488220
1k usually, but sometimes 1500 and 2k.

>>51486862

You can't. Active interested players are a myth.

That aside, I agree, Hinterlands looks really interesting. I wonder how a really small warband would fare, like lets say three blinged up units. Could be fun to play.

So besides the paladins and heroes the little backpacks that the regular guys have look pretty retarded. Could I keep the off? Is there like a big hole there or something that would make it look bad?

>>51486862
Can somebody post the pdf? I really can't be fucked signing up for yet another forum just for a download.

>>51488147
5 Brutes? 3 dual brute choppas, 1 gore choppa, 1 claw&smasha.
10+ Brutes? 7 gore-hackas, 2 gore choppas, 1 claw&smasha.

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>>51488327
None of the regular stormcast have backpacks?

>>51488382
Knock yourself out.

>>51488421
My spam filter can only take so much.
Thanks.

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>>51488421

>>51487091
It really gives a feel of how bad this game is when the main argument to defend it is 'WHFB was worse'.
We're aware that WH40k and WHFB have always been bad games. Try to compare this shit to good ones, though.

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>>51485341

It's not

I have no one to at with.


Not even 40k or WMH

>>51485440
>sylvaneth

That is what I'm honestly terrified of if it ever does pick up. I used to play WE back in the day, and loved two things: being a dick with hyper model MSU archers and being dick with trees, both in a friendly way of course.

Now comes AoS. Wanderers suck ass. My 50 Glade guard are worthless, my kit bashed way watchers are actually worthless, and the army as a whole feels fucking lame as shit. They're not mobile, they're not exceptionally shooty, and they have nothing special.

Sylvaneth on the other hand got the angry trees, the mobility, and my favorite thing: tree singing. Always made sure to take a hero wizard with the staff that let me cast singing twice even though it was bad. Now, I can do that with Sylvaneth. I love the idea.

However.

They're super popular and I have no intention of playing a crowded faction. Because I'm an likely an autistic spaz, I'd rather not play what I want to play if it means there's more diversity, even if oh already own the models...

Anyway, it's irrelevant because there aren't any players anywhere here. Two shops have tried and failed utterly.

Just bag me.

>>51488779
Oh, those? I didn't even realize they were meant to be put there, to be honest.
Yeah, you can leave them off no problem.

>>51489288
Nice

Can anyone please tell where I can read (not download) the Seraphon battletome online?

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So I just made my first units ever and I used plastic cement. Is there a way to avoid this crease around the entire body? I have liquid green stuff to fill it in but that seems like a pain. My coworker said he used some gap filling superglue and had no noticeable creases.

>>51489325
Nowhere. Download or bust.

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>>51489325
Why not just download it?

>>51489377
It's as you said; use better glue and, if needed, apply some greenstuff. Basecoat and paint both cover noticiable gaps as well, if only a little.

What should I run for my seraphon battalines? I always struggle with this part of list building. It just never seems to look right.

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Hammers of Sigmar
>required stuff
- 1 Thunderhead Brotherhood
>additional stuff
- 0-1 Lords of the Storm
- 0-2 Thunderhead Brotherhood
- 0-3 Thunderstrike Force
- any number of SC units
Everything get's Lightning Strike if the number of batallions is maxxed out.

>Abilities:
- First to be Forged:
Bravery +1 for everything.
- Heralds of Sigmar:
When a friendly unit of Liberators is destroyed, roll a d6. On a 6, instead return the unit to full strength and remove it from the table to set up in the Celestial Realm. Next movement phase they can arrive by Lighting Strike.
- Command Trait - We Cannot Fail
If a friendly SC unit within 3" of the general suffers a wound or mortal wound, roll a d6. On a 6 ( I think), ignore that wound or mortal wound

Hallowed Knights
>required
- 1 Lords of the Storm
>additional
- 0-3 Thunderhead Brotherhood
- 0-3 Hammerstrike Force
- any number of additional SC units
Everything get's Lightning Strike if the number of batallions is maxxed out.

>Abilities
- Only the Faithful:
Roll a d6 for every unit affected by an enemy spell. On a 5+the spell has no effect on that unit.
- Holy Crusaders:
+1" to run and charge distances.
- A Martyr's End:
Roll a d6 for every slain model from this batallion that has not yet attacked this phase killed in melee; on a 3+ (I think) it can pile in attack normally before being removed.

>>51489698
I can see Hallowed Knights getting a lot of use, especially with Tzeentch on the horizon.

>>51487453
A fair few start collecting kits have armies that aren't suitable for matched play.

Matched play is it's own thing, and Start Collecting sets aren't balanced around it.

>>51487453

Are you entering a tourney or something? I don't understand whats the problem here. Just apply some house-rules with your mates that balance the difference.

Some type of underdog -bonuses for you or some sort of handicap system. You can bend the rules as much as you need to to have a fun and balanced experience.

Thats unless you're trying to get a competitive tourney -list. Thats a different case altogether.

>>51489377
It is not avoidable on the plaguebearers. I recently build some of the myself and was pretty disappointed. You need to fill it was green stuff, liquid green stuff, a color (if the gap is really small) OR just scratch over it. I would recommend normal green stuff, liquid os shit imo (I never bothered getting gud with though. If it's even possible). You can also CAREFULLY apply more glue and scratch over it. It doesn't matter as mutch on plaguebearers, but I wouldn't recommend using this on models with flat and clean surfaces (like armorplates or vehicles in general).
Don't be afraid of green stuff, it's rather easy to use and don't start off with cheap miliput.

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>>51489893
Pick related is the glue and scratching 'technique' it looks worse than it is and a little clean up and the primer will do, but the gap is filled.
Also you could just leave it as it is, as the arms will cover most of it and you won't recognize it on the table. It's good for practice though.
Holy shit, my spelling sucks. I need a coffee...

>>51485511
>Be Khorne player.
>Bloodsecrator, Bloodstoker, Mighty Lord and Khorgorath all starter-only.

Quit yer whining.

>>51486646
You'll need three Battleline to make it legal. You currently have two.

>>51489698
Anymore of this sweet stuff?

Would anyone object to my old hooded Glade Guard being used as Way Watchers? I have about 30 with hoods, and 20 without, latter would likely be normal guard.

>>51490500
Just tell your opponent that before the battle and it'd be fine.

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>>51490357
Well, we know the Stormcast allegiance ability.

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Just trying to think up a good flesh eaters list to VS mates empire gun line. Which is basically just heaps of cannons, empire swords men as min battle line, celestial hurricanium and 2 steam tanks. What do you think?

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>>51490357
The Vanguard Hunters get basically super-Outflank.

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Also how what's the best royal menagarie list. What do you think of this one?

>>51490602
Wonder if they'll get items that give them +1 to this, like sylvaneth with their woods

>>51490685
Maybe. But they also get their Lightning Strike battalions to provide a better deep strike.

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>>51490685
I am really curious about their relics and traits in general. The regular Order stuff is already pretty potent, so I wonder how they'll develop that.
Also, new prayers, presumably like the new spells of the other battletomes? That'll be interesting. The Lord-Veritant is already something of a beast and the Lord-Relictor is at least cheap.

>>51488096
Have to write about a hobby every week. What you did in the hobby, how your getting better at it etc. there was 4 things to pick from. Dancing, painting, table top gaming or football.

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So if I'm reading these tea leaves correctly SC is getting the ability to break matched play points fairness with "free units"?

The whole reason for the restriction of Reinforcement Points on Matched Play games was to create games with balanced points.

It seems questionable to me that any army should be given a mechanic to circumvent that fundamentally important aspect of the Matched Play system.

From what I understand the ability to get free units only activates on a D6 of 6+ so it is not a high probability chance. However when it does happen (and it will happen) and when it does turn the tide of a game (and it will turn the tide of at least some games) I foresee a lot of gnashing of teeth and angry rumblings about this new mechanic.

Similarly I am understanding that the SC will be receiving a new ability to ignore magic on a 3+. This seems like a subversion of the entire mechanic of magic as it currently exists in the game. A blanket magic resistance 3+ covers what was arguably one of SC's weaknesses, the magic mechanic. Granted that they recently got a great little bargain character with unlimited unbind attempts and I felt that was a much healthier way to approach magic resistance for SC than this blanket immunity. I don't like abilities that circumvent game play mechanics, it seems lazy.

Also we seem to be seeing that SC will be getting the ability to enter the board from any table edge on any turn. The game mechanic of deployment zones exists for a reason and this is another ability for SC that subverts a game mechanic that promoted healthy enjoyable games.

So that is three examples so far that I see here about the new SC release that are very concerning to me and I think will have a very negative impact on the game.

then again I like elves and play elf lists so what do I know right?

>>51488220
>we had a death guy but we havent seen him in awhile.

He died

>>51490876
"I haven't seen the full rule texts, only anecdotes of anecdotes, but let me bitch about Stormcasts on 4chan for 20 minutes while I stuff Glade Guard models up my withered asshole"

>>51490876
It's fucking Liberators respawning on a 6+ with no way to modify the roll and anly baseline Scions of the Storm deployment right out the gate.
Wo-fucking-hoo. Victory is certain.

>>51490941
when those liberators do respawn (and they will occasionally) and they appear from the celestial realm to claim or contest an objective that your opponent would otherwise be scoring points from I can bet you that your opponent wont be so happy about your free unit.

>>51490914
>withered asshole
good stuff right there, I laughed.

>>51490592

Is massed Way watchers a viable option?

>>51491095
Neither are people going to be happy about endless respawning ghouls or daemons, but people survive that as well.

>>51491184
What you mean endless daemons?

>>51491128
>Is massed Way watchers a viable option?

No.

If you're trying to do a viable list for any elf faction go to that factions compendium and in he back look at the warscroll battalion options. Build your army around a strong battalion. That is your best chance with elves.

>>51490857
Your school is a joke

>>51491184
There is a difference. Those ghouls and daemons aren't new units, and they don't get to redeploy anywhere on the table. And usually they don't get restored to full strength either.

The main concern about the new stormcast formation is that it hands the player a full strength unit to place anywhere on the board that they paid no points for.

>>51490876
The ignore magic is on a 5+ and a lot of units already have it. Basically each dwarf unit and Khorne units already ignore magic mortal wounds on a 4+.

And woooohoooo, Stormcast can pay 800 points minimum (not counting the battalion cost) in mediocre units to allow respawn on a 6+ of the most mediocre of that units.

Liberators don't win games buddy. Not even liberators respawning on a 6+.

And for the deployment you are whining about a partial description on the WD. At least wait to read the whole rule.

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>>51491422

That's just disheartening. It's good to know that my old models are worthless.

>>51491480
Do you want to have fun? Play with them with other people who want to have fun. Wanderers can have a powerful and fluffy list.

Do you want to be competitive and win every game? Suck it up and join the meta or get good.

And you know what? Chances are if you just started or are coming back, you don't even know how to play the game competitively. So don't try until you learn to have fun with what you have.

Why is this so hard to understand for people?

Hell, a tourney list is literally 3 hurricanum and 60 Glade Guard as a core. There, happy?

Stormcast player here, I know many of you don't like that we got new models and a new book but what is the point of complaining about it on tg?

>>51491534
What is the point of complaining about Trump on Tumblr?

It makes people feel like they're doing something without doing anything. Obviously, shouting into the wind is proven to make people feel better.

>>51491529

>happy?

Not likely because I'm a sperg about sticking to a single faction.

I'll just go. Sorry.

>>51491534
>Stormcast player here, I know many of you don't like that we got new models and a new book but what is the point of complaining about it on tg?

personally I'm not so concerned with the models as I am by what I perceive to be game breaking abilities that circumvent important rules of matched play.

Reinforcements without paying points.

Blanket immunity to magic.

non deployment zone deployment.

those new gryph mounts look beautiful by the way. It gives me hope that when they get around to the elves we will see some amazing sculpts for them too.

Ghoul king on terrorgheist + charnel pit carrion + x2 artifact cursed book + 2 mournguls = - 4 to hit am I wrong?

>>51491588
Go play the game. Have fun, Anon. As long as you enjoy the game with friends, who cares if it's "good"? That was my point.

>>51491670
FAQ made Charnel Pit Carrion useless due to keywording.

>>51491591
>ignore magic on a 5+
>ignore magic on a 3+
>blanket immunity to magic
I like how this is escalating each time. What's next, any enemy wizard on the same table as stormcast becomes unable to cast any spells?

>>51491717

From the outside looking in, this doesn't sound like a good sign of things to come.

>>51491736
Dwarf units had immunity to magic on a 5+ from day one

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some progress on the traumaturge. The runes need to be cleaned up along the edges but i think it could work

>>51485279
>non deployment zone deployment.

You mean like Lightning Strike? The most iconic Stormcast ability that was their from the second they came out?

>>51491591
I'm not sure you aren't overly concerned for something that's not too bad overall.
I mean:
>reinforcements without reinforcement points
Like daemons, skeletons and other undead, some spells or abilities and so on? It's not too bad. The only relevant difference being that you can shunt them around the battlefield. Also, it's only Liberators, who only really excel as a brick, and only after a complete wipeout *and* only on a 6.
>blanket immunity to magic
A 5+ denial of magic is not exactly blanket, especially considering that SC only get one other unbind-capable model otherwise. Dorfs had it all this time, for example.
>non-deployment zone depoloyment
SC already had that ever since the game was released and it's hardly broken. This just adds more options on top of that.

>>51491736
You're missing the point, it's not that that the rules actually say stormcast will get a blanket immunity to magic, there's just some anon that's getting more and more hyperbolic about this rule. All we actually KNOW is what's in this blurry image >>51489698.

>>51490811
Don't Stormcast already have a Battletome?

>>51491588
if you're not completely stuck on wood elves you can do a combined elf list with high wood and dark elves that is very strong to the point of being nearly broken. It goes like this:

Battle line: Darkshards: 2 or 3 units as needed
Compendium Alarielle: 1 unit
Loremaster: 1 unit
Compendium Handmaiden: 1 unit
Compendium Sisters of Avelorn: 1 unit
Sisters of Slaughter: 1 unit
Sisters of the Thorn: 1 unit
Dreadlord on Black Dragon: 1 unit
High Elf Lord on Dragon: 1 unit


The loremaster spell makes the dark elf dragon very very killy. The high elf lord on dragon has command ability that makes him much more killy. Alarielle heals D6 wounds on a dragon per turn and gives a 6+ ward save and a mystic shield. The sisters of the thorn cast on the sisters of slaughter for a very very nasty back field defensive unit. The darkshards are speed bumps. The handmaiden and sisters of avelorn will reliably kill something every turn pretty much anywhere on the board. The dragons fly out aggressively and murder everything that matters and the rest gets chewed up mid field rarely ever making it anywhere.

Another option for smaller games is the Exile Blood Cult formation in the dark elves compendium, build for minimum size and dominate 1500 point games.

>>51491773
Yeah, the red/blue combo looks really nice.

>>51491717
Yup, and the next time after that all wizards on the table explode on a 5+.

>>51491847
Holy crap that's like my theoretical all-girl wood elf list (sisters of thorn, sisters of watch, female glade guard/eternal guard, spellweaver) but on steroids.

I love it.

>>51491757
yeah and that was something special about dwarves because they don't have magic themselves or stormcast "celestial magic" either. Dwarves give up something SC don't give up to have that 5+ blanket immunity.

>>51491717
Even if it is on a 5+ that is still a blanket immunity roll. I already explained why I think its a bad thing for the game.

>>51491775
yeah like lightning strike. Im not a fan of that either.
>>51491795
it isn't like daemons and undead I explained it here >>51491445

>>51491773
That looks good enough that I might try to do light blue tattoos on my red skinned orcs.

>>51491930
Blanket immunity and a blanket immunity roll are two very different things.

Also, what exactly do Dwarves give up for that 5+ magic defense? I mean, they are not forced into an awkward meta-batallion for one.

Thoughts on skaven pestilens? Best formations? Best units? Plague-smog worth the potential mortal wounds since apparently the cloud activates once per unit in the formation, with the exact wording on the scroll?

>>51492037
>what exactly do Dwarves give up for that 5+ magic defense
>>51491930
>they don't have magic themselves or stormcast "celestial magic" either

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>>51492074
>they don't have magic themselves or stormcast "celestial magic" either
U wot m8.

>>51492112
keep quiet about that ... If they find out dwarves lost their fluff justification for magical immunity they might get rid of it.

>>51491930
>it isn't like daemons and undead I explained it here
Yeah, but Daemons and Ghouls and whatnot get that baseline while Stormcast must take a cumbersome battalion with nothing but defensive abilities, not to mention it being just Liberators.
Also, with Liberators you just what them holding the line, which they won't do for a while while they chill in the Celestial Realm, whereas just regrowing a unit extends their overall standing power.

>>51491914
My wife loves playing that army. She gets a kick out of her (mostly) all girls elves dominating every week down at the local shop.

>>51492167
if you don't see how the chance to redeploy the unit anywhere on the board is what makes it strong and special then I cant help you.

>>51492201
If you don't get why a unwieldy meta-battalion with largely mediocre sub-battalions triggering a sorta-resurrection for one unit type on a 6+ on wipeout is at best a roadblock, I can't help you either.
So let's just agree to disagree.

>>51492282
there is also the slippery slope to consider. By introducing a mechanic that bypasses the no free units rule in matched play it opens the door for worse things that hurt the game down the road.

>>51492201
Nobody is saying it isn't a powerful control tool, it kinda is, but people are saying that it's unreliable as fuck and enormously situational.

>>51492370
Sure, but powercreep will always be a thing unless you are playing chess. Might as well role with it.

>>51491757
Wait what? They do? Where?

>>51491802
Two.

I guess we are double-digit before every faction out there got theirs.

>>51492531
Icon Bearers for warriors, quarrelers, thunderers, Ironbreakers, and irondrakes. If a spell targets the unit, ignore it on a 5+.

>>51488917
>Try to compare this shit to good ones
Which are ?

>Inb4 Warmahorde that is literally worse than 40k

>>51492370
This is called a slippery slope fallacy.

>>51493075
Is it just me or are most slippery slopes in recent history actually valid and not fallacies? At what point does reality become a parody of itself?

>>51493092
That's confirmation bias at its finest. Nobody remember the thousand of slippery slopes that didn't realize.

I just finished City of Secrets and enjoyed it quite much, it's a shame GW won't publish an AoS RPG or some setting-only books.
I'm probably gonna try to play it with another system anyway.

>>51493352
>it's a shame GW won't publish an AoS RPG
Can you also see the steamhead duardin models in your crystal ball ?

>>51493229
It seems like it's bad that any slippery slopes materialized in the first place.

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>>51492071
Probably third best Skaven force. Top being Skryre and then Verminus.

Plaguesmog is a meme trap though. Okay let's pretend the smog shit works exactly how we want it to

Is it worth 80 pts? Not really
are Censer bearers still utter dogshit? yes
is one furnace with slightly better damage output and a minor anti-shooting buff worth the 2 CB tax? No.
Will anything but the furnace survive the trip into combat? No.
Are there better formations? actually not really. Pestilent Clawpack is the way to go, foulrain is fine if you want to spam plagueclaws but at that point just play a real shooting army like skryre

Pestilens has cool fluff and it's quite fun if you own all your old Lustria shit, but i would not recommend it to a new player. outdated battle-tome doesn't help either. .

>>51493376
Well, since they cancelled their licence to FFG and they always used to licence RPG, I'd say the future is bleak. We can hope, as Tzeentch wills it.

>>51493549
>Plaguesmog is a meme trap though.

Not really since no one ever field the smog.
But yeah, when you see the warpflame host and compare it to the smog... the smog is pathetic.

>>51493675
If anything that's because they don't want ffg to make money on their IP and publish it themselves.
I mean the only real cost is publish books, and they already do that in china, they just have to make minor adjustment and publish it.

>>51493675
GW didn't cancel the license, FFG chose not to renew it.

>>51493720
I'd love that, but it implies people working on it, people whom you have to pay.
>>51493726
I didn't knew that, it's kinda bleak if that's the case.

>>51493726
and cubicle7 already took it in its stead.

the inherent problem with this discussion is that the license being given is for warhammer, while age of sigmar is treated as a separate IP for the purpose of these things, unless they fold the 2 together for the RPG licence, which I doubt anyway.

>>51493843
An AOS RPG would be great not for the system but for the massive wedge of fluff it would give us.
I doubt GW would sign that power over to another party so early on.

>>51493075
okay lets instead call it "setting a precedent".

In this case GW is setting a precedent for allowing free units in matched play. I don't like that precedent because the game is better when both players have at their disposal the same number of points to fight the battle.

When one player gets to have more points during the course of the game that throws into question the whole Matched Play format for AOS.

What's the point of making lists with points if your opponent might end up with more points than you?

Maybe in this instance you can claim that its not a big deal because (insert reasons here) but who knows what shenanigans will happen in the future...

Maybe the mechanic for a new Shadow Kin faction allows them to routinely put 125% of the list points on the table as units during the course of the game... would that be a problem? what if it was 150%?

I don't like the precedent this sets.

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An update on my Ogroid, gonna take a break from him for now, but at least the runes are looking better.

>>51492411
>powercreep will always be a thing

why does it need to be? Why take such a profoundly important aspect of the game and relegate it to a poor inevitable state?

I think the game can and should be better than an "inevitable power creep" but that's just my opinion.

>>51494056
>What's the point of making lists with points if your opponent might end up with more points than you?

Fun? the sudden need to adapt to a fluid and more realistic battle scenario? Adds more narrative? Reinforces the idea that this is a game first and a competition second? Lets you develop your planning skills even further by forcing you to consider how your army will fair in the worst case scenario?

>>51494114
Is there any game that is better than it tho? Some games suffer from it less, but every game i have seen has had some issues with imbalance and power creep.

>>51493742
>I didn't knew that, it's kinda bleak if that's the case.
It's probably due to X-Wing's success, FFG didn't want to continue publishing for a competitor's IP.

>>51494134

I would totally agree IF the scale wasn't tipped ONLY in the direction of the SC army.

If both players had to contend with the possibility of random free units showing up anywhere on the board then okay sure. I might think that sort of thing deserves to be in Open Play format and not in Matched Play but at least there is a valid argument to be made in that case that its "fair".

When the advantages come down on the SC side through this "free units" mechanic all the time every time it doesn't seem fun or "fair" for Matched Play games.

>>51494172
Every Spartan game ever avoids the power creep problem. Because they abandon them all and move on to the next project.

>>51494185
Also they're trying to push their own fantasy mass battle system and i think that got up GEEDUBS nose a little bit.

>>51494114
Powercreep *will* happen in any wargame that relies on periodical releases. It's not just something that happens as an unfortunate side-effect, but rather is built into the game.
In a perfect world that'd not be the case, but business sense and human nature dictates otherwise.
The sooner you accept that, the better.

>>51494261
>but rather is built into the game.In a perfect world that'd not be the case, but business sense and human nature dictates otherwise.

this man speaks the truth

It is deliberate cyclical obsolescence to drive sales and nothing more.

I just wish it wasn't. I want the Fyreslayers to still be a viable army in 3 years. I want the Ironjaws to still be rocking in 5 years. I want The crazy wooly mammoth riding ogres to still be something to fear 12 months from now.

There is a lot to lose when we accept that "power creep is inevitable"

>>51494236
Fucking spartan are my pet hate.
Their business decisions are baffling and defy any possibility of cross sales or long term player base building.
>gets halo license.makes fleet game.drops it.
>makes halo combat game.15mm mass battle rather than 28mm skirmish.
>steampunk infantry game.35mm scale
>cool fantasy ships.sinks it.
>planetfall.LOLWUT did we make that?

Jesus fuck spartan why do you even bother.
They're so obviously just a bunch of guys who like making shit that need a GW style business guy to go in and make them fucking focus on something.

>>51494319
Hey man, I want to see a single land raider on the table and think "shit, this is gonna be tough" as i put my catachan footsloggers on the table full of painted scenery.

But that isn't the state of the hobby anymore.

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>>51494377
>I want to see a single land raider on the table and think "shit, this is gonna be tough" as i put my catachan footsloggers on the table full of painted scenery

Argh, right in the nostalgia.

>>51494377
>Tfw i built my first Horde unit in WHFB
>40 monks in one unit seemed massive, like something from an eavy metal pic

>Tfw that Matt ward era blood angel guy took a libby dread and a regular one
>Holy fuck two dreads?? how will deal with this

>>51494377
>>51494429
I can't speak to this because I, frankly, have no idea what you're talking about.

That aside though I can tell you're very embittered over the way power creep has taken things you loved away from you.

I say to you, don't give up. Don't accept that bad things will always be bad. At least find the will from deep inside to say out loud that you don't want it to be bad anymore.

*shit I think I had too much coffee.

>>51494489
I'm not embittered, I no longer play 40k cus the rules makes less sense to me than a Mary Poppins song script to a dyslexic. I play alot of 500 point sigmar at the moment and I'm looking at running hinterlands campaigns in the near future.

It isn't even so much the power creep in itself, rather the way power creep impacts on my ability to really feel the narrative and setting of my games. A land raider used to feel like a holy relic ploughing through your army and killing one was a fuck yeah moment, now they barely get taken.

AOS still has that same old school game feeling to me right now, mostly due to it's simplicity and the small size of most games.
I hope that what happened to 40k doesn't happen to AOS where 2000 points on a 6x4 becomes the standard.

>>51494487
Remember two tactical squads, a dreadnought and a captain was a an army? Those were achievable goals! Apocalypse ready forces are inspirational but when they're the standard it becomes an up hill struggle to keep motivated.

>>51494196
>all the time every time
Do you honestly believe that many players will actually field an otherwise pretty underwhelming meta-battalion for the sake of *maybe* getting one highly average unit back per game, as opposed to just taking Warrior Brotherhood or Skyborne Slayers?

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How much are you going to spend on the new awesome Stormcasts ?
We have to help GW financially so they can put Stormcast artillery and Stormcast big construct/Monsters, and Stormcast flying cavalry,

>>51494644
>>51494056
>Maybe in this instance you can claim that its not a big deal because (insert reasons here) but who knows what shenanigans will happen in the future...

>I don't like the precedent this sets.

>>51491847
>if you're completely stuck on wood elves you can do a combined elf list
>combined elf list
>combined

That's the shit I hate.

>>51494697
You joke, but I already talked to the FLGS guy to order me two boxes of the riders, one box of vanguard hunters, two boxes of gryph-hounds, one box of aetherwings, two boxes of raptor snipers and a lord-aquilor.

>>51494756
where do you got the price bro ?

>>51494729
Why not play Wanderers? They're a fun list.

Do you not like to play games, Anon? The rules are free. Why not take your toys for a spin before you throw that at the wall?

>>51494697
>stormcast artillery.

Don't joke anon, I want this so bad. Big fucking crossbows.


Also is that new scenery in the right side of the picture or is it the dragonfate dias? It looks more hydray.

>>51494775
Stores get given price lists 2 weeks in advance of release. Assuming these go up for pre order this weeked, they would have got the price this weekend past.

>>51494697

epic post friendo

>>51494817
and where can i see it ? did it leaked ?

>>51494719
Okay, fair enough, I guess. I don't mind, because whatever the actual dealbreaker in future is going to be, I'd say it's going to be something way more stupid than this.

>>51494775
No idea as to the price, but the FLGS guy already has prices two weeks or so in advance.

>>51494619
can't say about 2000pts as I've just gotten the models to run at that and their still being assembled and painted.
But 1000pts, and 1500pts play better than 500pts imho. 500pts can swing way to fast over a single roll, and your army can basically do one exact thing.
at 1000pts you can start doing actual tactics, interactions, and while the games still swing fast, it's not as bad.

>>51494824
>whatever the actual dealbreaker in future is going to be, I'd say it's going to be something way more stupid than this

You're 100% correct

>>51494719
what if the precedent being set isn't "free units are a thing" but "breaks from our rules will be in extremely expensive and mediocre meta-battalions".
So at high points you have the option to something you can't do otherwise, if you sacrifice a large amount of general power.

I like that precedent.

>>51494822
No, it's just basic retail practice.

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>>51494787
Big fucking crossbows you say?

>>51494878
>what if the precedent being set isn't "free units are a thing" but "breaks from our rules will be in extremely expensive and mediocre meta-battalions".So at high points you have the option to something you can't do otherwise, if you sacrifice a large amount of general power.I like that precedent.


But with "power creep" being a thing (even though I wish it wasn't) how likely do you really think it is that once the precedent is established that it will stay weak?

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>>51494893
these look like they will be:
2 attacks
range 36
to hit 3+
to wound 2+
rend -2
damage D3
with special rule of if to hit roll is 6+ damage becomes D6 and rend becomes -3

for a unit of three I bet they end up costing 150 points.

>>51494822
Gryph-hounds - €20 for 6
Aetherwings - €20 for 6
Vanguard Hunters - €50 for ten
Stormcast Eternals battletome - €40
Stormcast Eternals warscroll cards - €20
Judicators (repack) - €50 for ten
Liberators (repack) - €50 for ten
Lord-Aquilor - €35 (only rumored)

No idea about the Raptor Strikers or the Gryph-charger riders

>>51494940
>>51494940
stfu.it will be rend -3 damage 4 And 150 points for a squad of ten

>>51494940
>150
The amount of units not being priced in a multiple of 20 is absurdly low.

Also, I doubt the Longstrike Crossbow will be 2 attacks.

>>51494951
>Judicators (repack) - €50 for ten
>Liberators (repack) - €50 for ten
So gw offically analy raped every stormcast early adopter ? nice.

Also whats da price for da chocobo ?

>>51494911
I think the argument that 'power creep must be a thing', has a number of premises that you are assuming that are not necessarily true.

For example, it possible there might be periodic across the board rebalancing. Say a generals handbook 2. Or issuing of errata to change particular problems.
While GW isn't known for this, there is a new CEO who is doing stuff GW isn't known for, and with the rules and point costs being online, they can issue this more frequently.

This action can provide a corrective force against power creep.

Second, if abilities like this are limited to expensive and mediocre things, that leaves them room to create new and exciting options, without directly effecting the top end of power.

Your argument depends upon premises that are not necessarily true.

>>51491591

40k players have had to deal with this stuff for years.

>AdMech war convocation = free plasma guns for everyone!
>Space Marine battle company = free drop pods/razorbacks for everyone!
>super-heavies = blanket immunity to vehicle damage, poison and terrain, chance to 1HKO anything smaller with no saves allowed
>bikes with skilled rider = blanket immunity to terrain, firing restrictions on weapons, also faster than you
>tau battlesuits = vehicles that count as creatures for delicious space marine tier armor save and nonsensical haywire/melta resistance
>genestealers, alpha legion = deploy your entire army in your opponent's deployment zone(ok this one is actually fluffy and somewhat balanced)

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>>51494951
New Start Collecting Stormcasts
10 Judicators
10 vanguard hunters
1 Lord Aquila
6 Chocobo
Your mom
65Euro (so 45 online)

New Start collecting Aelves.
10 Dark spearelves
1 box of sisters of thorn
1 High elves flying chariot
65Euros

I can already see this.

>>51494992
I am a SC early adopter and I don't mind. It's a small discount and I got a lot out of my Judicators and Liberators in the last year and a half anyway. Not to mention I might want more of either at some point, so I profit from that as well.

>>51495058
> It's a small discount

Yesterday 5 judicator for 40euros, today 10 judicators for 50E

> 37.5 % is a small discount

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I guess I must be retarded because I don't understand why they are making a new infantry crossbow guy type when they already had Judicators and these new ones look almost identical.

>>51495117
Guess you must be.

>>51495117
>what is the historical difference between light and heavy crossbow

Fresh off the freshest rumor mills of fb:

So I have heard a few things and would just like to chime in my 2 cents.

-The rumored dwarves should be released at the end of March. (Part of why the warden king model is unavailible)

-Elves will be getting some releases in the summer(expect some slaneesh at the same time)

-Some elves will be joining slaneesh as a cult.

-No word on Death(I'm sorry)

-For those of you who play 40k as well, expect it to get streamlined a bit. The rules bloat will be taken care of.

-Also for you 40k players, namely those interested in sisters. They are coming. After seeing how much the recent hero set sold they are working on them now. It may take about a year but it's in progress.

Hope I have peaked some interest and brought some hope to you all. Sadly I didn't get much info about Death and Destruction but I am hoping Death will get a long awaited release, and some goblins will soon be a thing.

Also talks about how Morty and Angron will be the next demon primarchs out (in that order)

>>51495015
>it possible there might be periodic across the board rebalancing. Say a generals handbook 2. Or issuing of errata to change particular problems

I want this so bad.

>>51495015
>if abilities like this are limited to expensive and mediocre things

if that's true then it isn't really a problem.

lets hope it always stays that way.

then again maybe the entire history of warhammer and 40K gives us some clue about how likely that really is?

>>51495140
Not him, but dude the crossbows literally look identical. That's not light vs heavy.

>>51495117
>pteryges
>eagle helmet
>tri-barrel crossbow
It's minor things, but there are differences between Raptors and Judicators.
That said, it's not surprising that many people thought the new guys were actually a replacement for Judicators instead of their own thing.

>>51495170
Saw this posted on dakka. It was quickly pulled apart by the elf appointed experts.

All sounds pretty cool so i hope it's right.

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>>51495170

>Morty and Angron will be the next demon primarchs out

sounds heretical, but not heretical enough

NOT HERETICAL ENOUGH

>>51495015
A GHB 2 was already confirmed last year. The GHB is going to be an annual release that every time tweaks point and rules to rebalance things.

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>>51495234
Heresy you say?

>>51495170
any indication of a source on this? Obviously it isn't something GW would reveal deliberately.

Before I get worked up over random things people wrote on the internets I need to know more about who wrote it.

>>51495297

Who would win, Word Bearers or Stormcast Eternals?

Bear in mind that the Word Bearers are likely several hundred thousand strong, have access to transhuman Astartes enhancements, ceramite power armour, tanks, aircraft, as well as gyrojet, plasma, heat and laser weapons, and have the backing of the vast majority of Chaos Gods, major and minor. However they are also incompetent and are basically used as elite cannon fodder by all other Chaos factions, being Word Bearers.

>>51495350
>Before I get worked up over random things

then don't

>>51495362
depends, is it the fluff or the shit tier manletmarines of the tabletop ?

>>51495170
Man Elves getting a book this summer? If it's dark elf corsairs i'm gonna be cursing the tzeentch army I 'just' started.

>>51495377

Tabletop they would probably lose because 40k and Sigmar are balanced differently, though you could run the math to double check.

>>51495041

Thats exactly why 40k is shit and is losing players. I know when all this garbage started creeping in with the introduction of flyers then lords of war i bailed out.

>>51495404
Chances are that elves will focus on those living/hiding/fucking in Ulgu and Hysh, so corsairs are probably a seperate thing.

>>51495442
But if they end up looking cool i'll have to buy the shadowy elves too. Damn my weak will.

>>51495455
Yeah, well, I am sitting on a pile of new Tzeentch stuff as well and now these Stormcast things are coming out and I must get those as well. I feel your pain, brother.

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>>51485341
It's dead. Like 4 players including me. Playing mainly 1000 pts games

>>51495455
>>51495477
There's a reason we call it plastic crack, people.
>>51495350
Nah, guy said he had spoken to a gw higher up about what's up and coming, but that he wanted to keep him anonymous.

>>51495117
I know everyone is going to jump at your throat but man, GW design is really shit these days. They aren't able to devise anything new anymore beside N variants of the same old thing.
Now enters the drones screaming like banshees.

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i'm wondering anons, what i should had to a vampire lord on dragon and 3 vargeists for a 1000 pts list ? I plan on buying the start collecting flesh eater just for them, and i want to have some fun
i was initially thinking about two blob of 20 spear-skeletons and 80pts left to summon 10 more skellies to grab objectives

any recomendation ?

>>51495477
>>51495519
At least I'm in good company i suppose!

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Will we see a neat Nurgle battletome with all these tokens, cards and other cool shit like nuSCE one?

>>51495529
>GW design is really shit these days
>these days
>30 years of the same space marines

>>51495589
Sounds reasonable, but I'd consider a Cairn Wraith or a Tomb Banshee instead of the skelly reserves. The Vamp and the Vargheists will probably be far away from your skeletons, so you want a Deathless Minions dispenser hanging out near them.

>>51495746
damn, thanks for the answer, the cairn wraith just happens to fit my taste !

>>51495671
Probably at some point in the future, combining Rotbringers, Pestilens and Daemons in on book a la Disciples of Tzeentch.

>necrons
>thousand sons
>ad mech
>seraphon
>forces of tzeentch
My backlog keeps growing! HALP!

>>51495803
>Probably at some point in the future
So if Tzeentch is fine for now and Khorne only needs solo-packs like Bloodsecrator or Khorgorath box, maybe we will some Nurgle boost and battletome in the first half of the year, right? r-right?

>>51495937
pestigors confirmed by the lady

>>51495937
When slaanesh?

>>51495937
Well, if the rumors are to be believed then there *are* Pestigors in the works, but also that there won't be anything Nurgle until fall due to dorfs and aelves/slaanesh.

>>51495963
After Nurgle, little noodle
>>51496050
>there won't be anything Nurgle until fall
Damn i-
>due to dorfs and aelves
I'm okay with this. If they give us SC! for dorfs I will pick them as my main army. Aelves would be neat too - at least few players in LGS will expand their SoD armies

>>51489007
And obviously, if you did start playing, you'd realize how baseless all your complaints about Wood Elves are. In their first shooting phase, those Glade Guard are going to destroy something. General, tough as balls melee unit, your pick, really. You point, it's dead, they already paid for themselves, now every volley they shoot afterwards is just a bonus. Those Waywatchers? They're ridiculously amazing Battleline units, because for 160 points you can have Battleline for any Order army over and done with and get 6 pretty good archers that will usually pull their weight.
Nomad Prince + Eternal Guard + Sisters of the Watch/Waywatchers gives you an absolutely ridiculous bulwark that nothing except massed mortal wounds can remove.
Wyldwood Rangers have great damage output against normal enemies already, but against monsters, they turn into absolute death blenders.
Literally the only bum unit you have are Wild Riders.

>>51496102
Don't forget, the wardancer hero does a nice Sayel impression. Make some Rangers fly across the board. Or give one of your dragons some really nice movement.

>>51494697
I guess I'm going to buy one of those Celestants on Demigryph. Should make a nice basis for a Slaanesh Lord on Daemonic Mount at any rate.

Can i throw in some chaos warriors and/or knights in with my tzeench dudes if i make them mark of tzeench? I assume the mark doesnt doesnt do anything other than let me use spells and shit on them?

Do i forfeit the faction abilities of tzeench if i were to add in some warriors? I probably wont ever even get to use it but i like the models.

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>>51496195
The perfect Slaaneshi lord already exists, y'know.

>>51494779

I keep hearing conflicting arguments about them being God awful or decent, but I'll be perfectly honest. My gaming area is dry as a bone, and 2 LGS owners have failed to get any sort of minis game off the ground. We've been trying for about a year now, and no one is interested in anything but MtG. Even X-Wing only has a married couple that come in and play board games together. There's a small group of board game players, and a sizable DnD crowd, but zero interest in 40k/AoS. Hell, even WMH.

I would play if I could, but in the mean time, all I can do is hang out here. Sometimes I get bitter about inane shit because I'm just frustrated.

>>51496229
The mark allows you to play them in a Tzeentch allegiance without breaking it. All Slave to Darkness units can be taken in a Tzeentch army.

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>>51496229
>Playing with models he likes for fun
>Not using OP lists with the most expensive models
what the fuck is wrong with you, Anon. Are you an AoS or what?

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>>51493549
Well there goes all my money then. Got an sc, virulent hoard, and two boxes of moks

>>51496235
He would be perfect, but I refuse to work with metal or resin. Too many failed attempts and wasted bucks to try my luck again. So yeah, if I ever get a cool snakey Slaanesh steed, it'll be a normal Slaanesh steed with the tail end of a Tyranid Ravener.

>>51496229
Allegiance part says specifically that models that can be given the Tzeentch keyword at setup count as part of the allegiance, so yeah, they're totally compatible.

So, I've just unpacked a big box of brets I bought from a guy just before christmas to add to my old unbuilt 6th ed force:
One mounted yeoman
One trebuchet and crew
6 knights of the realm, 5th ed plastics, 2 with metal bodies
17 monopose plastic archers, one with broken bow
5 metal spear men-at-arms
6 metal halberd men-at-arms
One mounted paladin standard bearer
Metal grail knight command upper bodies
A pile of movement trays and broken plastic palms, some knight and
And a 5th ed metal king Louen with paper banner(!)
Pretty good stuff, I feel. Favourite has to be the halberd guys, such good sculpts.

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>>51496341
What do guys? I can't return any of this. I've got a fuckton of useless rats and only a bit of the tough rats.

>>51496434
>wow I choose models I like and someone on internet tells me it isn't the most OP thing ever, better sold everything and hope nobody tells me my next project is shit too

>>51485279
Anyone have the OP pic without text?

>>51496434
Don't be a WAACfag from WHFB and run what you like, man. Maybe you will find something in your army that other Anon hadn't see

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>>51494697
Meh. Wish they would make some two legged mounts.

>>51496235
But it isn't luxuriously oiled up.

>>51496553
It's Slaaneshi. You don't even want to know how olied up it is.
Or what it's oiled up with

>>51496533
shhhhh you'll trigger the "MY ELVES ARE NOT BLOOD ELVES" guy

>>51494429

I've never understood the problem with power creep. Maybe if you're a tournament player I get it but in casual dontgiveafuck games?
What the shit is stopping you from playing smaller scale games? Why do you HAVE TO use the most overpowered shit and the newest and shiniest models? Are the redshirts gonna take you to the alley behind the shop to beat you if your shit isn't the newest and bestest formations possible?

Stop whining and make your own fun. Thats what wargames have always been about.

>>51496317
>>51496347
>>51496285

Awesome, thanks guys.

To be honest i don't even play i just recently started painting again and really enjoying it even if i am not that good. All i have so far is the silver tower guys which i'd love to bolster with some of the tzeench acolyte guys, more tzangors and probably just one squad of warriors and knights. I'll pick up a SC tzeench box but i dont ever see myself using the flamer type fellows, they dont look as great imo.

Maybe one day i will get a game once ive painted enough to field a 1k army. For now though i've got the silver tower to finish and then i will try and find someone to play it with me.

I'm just really excited about these tzeench dudes, i remmember a chaos warrior art from that warhammer fantasy mmo and always thought it looked awesome.

>>51496452
>>51496509
I guess you're right. I still like my rats. I just got worried since I know all the guys at my shop are big tournament players.

>>51496676
change shop

>>51496647
When the power creep is confined to which power build is the best then there is no actual problem, but if it's too steep you have situations like 40k in which if two new players starts one an Eldar army and the other an Ork army there is absolutely no way for them to have a game in which the ork player is not curbstomped.

>>51496624
I think its cool that people like blood elves and if they want to imagine my witch elves are blood elves that's totally cool with me.

also what is this chicken thing?>>51496533

>>51496676
Even tournament players need to play casual games sometimes. Just ask them to bring their shit with same power level as your. Every game works like that - MtG, X-wing, Pokemon. It's all about balance m8

>>51496674
>i just recently started painting again and really enjoying it even if i am not that good
Are you going to paint your warriors "neutraly" or maybe you want to give them a tzeenchy look?

>>51496727
>also what is this chicken thing?
Its the new Tzee... I mean Stormcast mount. Would you like one? It'll only cost you your soul.

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Played a game of chess yesterday with a buddy. Both of us used aos models. I used my skaven. Warlord as king, grey seer as queen, warlock engi as bishops, stormvermin as knights, and gutter runners as bishops, with my clanrats as pawns.

>>51496647
power creep and power imbalance in general can become problems even for casual games when it gets to the point where units stop functioning or can't be effected.

The 'everything can kill everything' wound rules for AoS help this, but it's not proof against it.

This become particularly bad if it's something you can fall into rather than combos you have to stack up.

To give a concrete example, I got Eldar for 40k because I thought they looked cool and liked the lore, and my friend got Chaos Space Marines because he liked the lore.
After the first few games we couldn't have a fun game against each other, because he couldn't do anything to me and I tore him apart. And I was running units based liking them rather than power, so aspect warriors and fire prisms.

It wasn't till Khorn Daemonkin came out we could have fun again.

>>51496758
Gutter runners as rooks

>>51496710

Yes there is you dense motherfucker. Its this easy:

>Hey man, wanna start new armies and play some 40k?
>Sure, I've been wanting to get my hands on some 'o them space elves
>Nice, I'm thinking about getting some orks and going wild with the converting and stuff
>Just so you know, Orks arent faring very well on the tables, might wanna look at the rules

>Hey dude, I looked at the ork rules and yeah, they are a bit weak, gonna lose to the eldar alot
>Well if you wanna get into orks still, we could have a house rule that lets you do x y and z so you get a leg up, sound good?
>Sounds awesome. Lets try it out and see if it balances things

Bam, done. You should play with people who want to play wargames and have more than two braincells so they can go through a bit of trouble for it instead of fuckers who treat wargaming as vidya with plastic soldiers.

Of course this doesn't work because fat dweebs want to buy NEW SHIT ALL THE FUCKING TIME and feel better of themselves by curb stomping other players. And said fat dweebs make up the majority of the playerbase.

>>51496647
>>51494319
>I want the Fyreslayers to still be a viable army in 3 years. I want the Ironjaws to still be rocking in 5 years. I want The crazy wooly mammoth riding ogres to still be something to fear 12 months from now.

>There is a lot to lose when we accept that "power creep is inevitable"

>>51496727
It's the standard blood elf mount in WoW

>>51496872
this requires at least one member to be quite familiar with the rules, before buying.
The first also involves someone not being able to play what they like, and the second involves quite a bit of familiar with the rules, and the community to agree to houserules.
You are on /tg/; you should know how hard that is.

>>51496951
>It's the standard blood elf mount in WoW
damn. shows how much I know about WOW. I was betting it would be a Final Fantasy thing.

>>51496768

You couldn't have fun playing with your friend because of something some neckbeard wrote in a book in Nottingham? Are you fucking serious?

What exactly is the problem there, I'm not that deeply versed in 40k rules (especially eldar) to know what makes them invincible, could you illuminate a little?

>>51496977

What? The exact scenario would also be apparent if neither one were that familiar with the rules. If one of you gets curbstomped by round 2 of your first game you see theres a problem, and you can adjust accordingly?

The community? No, it requires your opposing player to agree, no one else.

>>51496992
so basically my ranged shooting outshot him, I was massively more manueverable so i could get my specialists to their targets and he could never get catch me.

It's a shooty army, and he can't move more than 6" and get good shooting at me, and I can me 12"+ inches with my shooters every turn. And my shooting is good enough that I can take down multiple units a turn.

My melee units attacked before he did because of initiative, and would take down the majority of whatever was in combat before they could swing back.

>>51496872
>Of course this doesn't work because fat dweebs want to buy NEW SHIT ALL THE FUCKING TIME and feel better of themselves by curb stomping other players. And said fat dweebs make up the majority of the playerbase.

Why WHFB wasnt selling then ?

>>51497059
>If one of you gets curbstomped by round 2 of your first game you see theres a problem, and you can adjust accordingly?
okay first, if the people actual have 2 braincells they wouldn't react based on the first game. Always play a few games.
Second, the guy who bought orc, now can't play the army he wants and spend a lot of money.

> No, it requires your opposing player to agree, no one else.
so only ever able to play against one guy. That sounds great.

>>51496992
He is probably the type of buy so butthurt with "da rulez" he actually declare money he makes by selling used thing to the government, i mean it would be ILLEGAL to not declare it right ?
the BOOK (law) say we should so you can't argue about that,.

>>51497134
Because they were buying new stuff for 40k

>>51497147
>opposing player
>one guy

? literally what ?

>>51497166
so you get every opposing player you might encounter to agree to the same houserules?
That is exactly the same as getting the community to agree. Only slower.

>>51496872
>>51497059

>Power creep is not a problem if you just make your own rules

Way to miss the point guy. Of course you can just houserule everything, but the entire rule structure is still needed as a guideline, otherwise why the fuck are you even playing 40k instead of just using the minis and create your own system?

>>51497122

So why didn't you adjust the rules so it would be more balanced and fair?

The battlefield is wreathed in dense unnatural warp-smoke that confuses and hinders the eldar senses, therefore they have to really focus and can only move 3" (or 4", 5", 6" whatever) in the same turn as they shoot.

The warp-smoke makes the chaos marines meld into the battlefield and be able to strike from unexpected angles, +1 initiative.

Its not that fucking hard.

>>51497134

GW didn't pump enough new shiny minis for it.

>>51497147

Are you fucking retarded m8? If they adjust the rules accordingly the orkdude can play his beloved orks to his hearts content. Why couldn't he?

Also opposing player means whoever orkydude is playing at the moment, not just one person in general. These are not complicated concepts.

>>51497196
so you are admitting there is a problem with the rules that would make them unfun, that rules can do that?
because if I have to make rules to make it fun, the rules that exist make it unfun, thus rules can make the game unfun.

Also, why wouldn't we just play a different game? because that's what we did.

>>51497234
> If they adjust the rules accordingly the orkdude can play his beloved orks to his hearts content. Why couldn't he?
wheredoyouthinkyouare.jpg.

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>>51496102

Well, that means something I guess. Honestly, the complaints come from what I've heard here. Even stuff I've caught on other sites.

I'm glad Waywatchers are good. They were always my favorite. Pic realated are some of the ones I've built. I'm a little ashamed I still haven't painted them after these years, but after the store closed, the motivation.

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>>51496434
>>51496341
I didn't mean Pestilens were totally shit and useless, honestly they are decent, certainly above 2 other clans and okay in most games

I just would not recommend them for anyone new due to high model count, limited units and the fact people don't like painting fucktonnes of the same model, presumably you don't see this as a barrier so that's good.

Field the Pestilent clawpack and don't expect much from the other formations. if your LGS lets you use the SC or Virulent hoard use that too to mix it up. Get Lord Skrolk since he's useful and try to ignore censer bearers since they truly do suck.

You won't dominate any tournaments but you can still have fun, Pestilens are great and have cool fluff, and i'm lucky to have a semi-casual local group. watch out for archer spam though, can't do much versus that.

>>51497195

Yes and there is nothing wrong with the rule structure as it stands. Power creep and balance issues is not the same as problems with the game system or core rules in themselves.

You don't have to create a completely new system just because you don't like the fact that Eldar Mongoloid ButtMaster has a 1+ save against any attacks made by infantry. You can literally fix it with a 5 second conversation with your opposing player.

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>>51496742
i'd definitely like to give a go painting them in a tzeentchian style, not seen many that look that great though. I think this was the picture that originally got me liking them.

>>51497278
But doesnt plaguesmog activate the way I thought it did?

>>51497237

>Hey I really really like this game system and the models and the lore
>Not gonna play it because there are a few easily fixed retarded rules
>Power creep is a serious problem guise really! Im not retarded I promise!

>>51497307

I really wish the basic WoC got some updated models (preferably based on art like that). The old ones look jarringly crude next to some shiny new shit.

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>>51497250
I did something like that... I have like 15 of those painted up. they are sweet!

>>51497296
>it's possible to fix
>therefore it's not a problem
this argument is so dumb I don't know why I have to explain it to you.
Once the fix is made, there isn't a problem, but now I and the other players have to do that fixing. We were still presented with a problem.

If someone sold you a car that doesn't work, the fact that you could spend a few days of work fixing it doesn't mean I didn't sell you a car with problems.

>>51497331
I guess? unclear wording so always assume no.

Again, let's say it does: It's still shit. but if you want to pay 200 pts tax (120 points for 10 censers + 80 pts formation cost) to deal d3 mortal wounds and have slight shooting resistance on your Furnace and only your furnace (5 guys with no save are fucked if anything hits them. One arcane bolt + battleshock and they are gone) then go for it man.

I'd rather add 10 pts to that 200 and get 30 more monks, but if you insist then may the Great horned one watch over you.

>>51497336
>Not gonna play it because there are a few easily fixed retarded rules
It not a few easily fixed rules.
If it was there would have been an agreement on fixes by now.

Assuming that problems only continue to exist because everyone involved is an idiot is the height of arrogance.

>>51495181
because the photo is just the hurricane crossbow, not the long range one.

>>51497408
the dark elf sister thing scheme is actually really really really good.

>>51497412

So basically you just don't want to do any work or thinking and have someone else do everything for you?

If the problem with the car you sold me is that it has tinted windows and I dont like tinted windows but otherwise its the perfect car for me then hells yes I'm gonna spend an afternoon fixing the windows.

I just think you're making a huge deal about a tiny thing you don't happen to like and acting like its the worst travesty ever that the system is not perfect for you.

>>51497430
I meant it activates the smog once per unit, hitting everything in range of the FORMATION, since shitty old VERSION IS REPLACED

>>51497213
where were you for 8th ? and 7th ?

>>51497498
thanks! my wife runs this list >>51491847
with them and all the girls in the list are painted that way.

>>51497535
Do you happen to have a pic of the whole deal ?

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Finished my questor. Sir bry'an the blessed.

>>51497519
so when people said "it does become a problem when the extent of the issue is large enough".
You're responses is "clearly the issue isn't large enough can't ever be".

Because that is not a counterargument. Can you counter the argument that the balance can become fucked up enough that it's a problem? That it can get to the point where there are no easy fixes?

Or to use the analogy; can a car you're sold be fucked up enough that even though it's fixable it still counts as a fucking problem?

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>>51497554
Love it anon. The shield looks fantastic.

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>>51497549
im working on painting this. when its done Ill set up all the elves... something like 8000 painted points for a nice family photo and post it for everyone.

>>51497438

>Waah, why doesn't everything in the world work like I want it to.

My experience on tabletop wargaming seems to differ from your experience in a drastic way. My friends and I have encountered a lot of retarded rules in pretty much every game system anyone of us has ever played, but every one of them has either been ignored or worked around with a minute modification. I just don't understand why everyone is up in arms about "power creep" or shit they don't happen to agree with.

I completely understand that it seems to be a genuine problem to you, and don't mean to invalidate the apparent suffering it causes you. I just don't think its a big deal at all.

>>51497532

The minis werent just shiny enough.

>>51497555

I don't disagree that the problem CAN become large enough to the point of a game system being unplayable. I've just never seen it happen, and it would require an awful lot of fucking up with the core of the game to make a game like lets say AoS to become unbalanced to that point. Especially considering that there is an inherent system to counter any unbalanced rules built into literally every tabletop wargaming system ever created. Its called social interaction.

>>51497620
so you haven't played 40k?
or please, present your complete fixes for that game?

My bigger problem is with your logic, because the statement as posed was "this becomes a problem when it reaches this point", which has the form of "if X then a belongs to Y", and you've done nothing to counter that statement.
X is false does not make an 'if/then' statement untrue.
You're continue to try and prove that X cannot be true, which is pretty fucking arrogant, but also pointless.

"If X then Y" can only untrue if X is true. So the game balance is so off that different armies cannot play against each other, and this is not simple the matter of a couple of units or rules that can be ignored. Is this a problem?

>>51497579
Cheers anaon.
Hoping to carry on the oldschool freehand through the whole warband.

>>51497750

There are no armies in 40k that cannot play against eachother.

My statement is that while unbalance and power creep can become a problem within a game system there are no game systems (that I know of) that have power creep or unbalance to that point. The problem you are making is moot because its a non-existent problem. And ackshully yes, I've played quite a bit of 40k.

You are just making a big deal out of nothing.

Please just stop mongering your retarded views about a hobby you clearly don't understand.

People like you should just stick to video games or other more simple forms of entertainment.

>>51497867
why are you still answering this bait man.

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>>51497867
>being this autistic

>>51498037

Was it the vidya -part? I thought that was a bit much too. I see your point.

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>>51498071
The whole thing anon.
The whole thing.

>>51498071
I just kinda think this entire thread has kinda gotten out of control with this "debate"

>>51498145
Nah, every general needs some shitposting and baiting. Check and balance, m8

>>51498071
Just the last two paragraphs. Other than those, it was just as toxic as the rest of this thread.

somewhere following this post >>51495178
or a little after the quality of the conversation about the new SC rules and power creep took a severe turn towards the retarded and autistic.

>>51498892
N
N E W
W
>>51498892

>>51485279

>>51498944
>>51498944
>>51498944