What would be his CR?

>>51480773
'bout 3.

I mean the protagonist of that game could be slayed by two or three good whacks from a passing wolf, and CR represents an entire group of protagonists.
Honestly that game is pretty low level in what's actually in the game.

Sure it has that thing that Tolkien's shit also does, where the backgrounds of the characters make them out to be immortal super gods of everything, but their actual depictions aren't really all that impressive in the grand scheme of things.

>>51480837
Dude think about it, he is basically a pc with a pet ancient blue dragon

Even if the dark souls pc dies pretty easily we don't know the cr of creatures in that world

Quick /tg/. Who/what is your favorite Dark Souls character and why. Bosses, actual npcs and everything else.

He's an epic level foe, that much is certain. Although the D&D/CR system is an awful fit for Souls stuff, as evidenced by the dumbshittery in >>51480837

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>>51480950

I adore the visual design of the Gaping Dragon. Even if the actual fight isn't that great, the look of the twisted monstrosity is just fantastic.

>>51480950
I really like Havel, if only because the idea of a man destroying people with a Dragon's Tooth is fucking hardcore.

If you want my favourite boss, it'd be a tie between Manus and Artorias, because they both have good lore and excellent fights. All things considered, that DLC was god tier.

>>51480911
Sure, but his ancient blue dragon is also a pussy by D&D standards.

The whole setting is pretty low level in terms of power, and that's cool. But if you use CR to measure it, they're all going to be pretty low on the totempole.

>>51480980
It's not dumbshittery, it's pointing out that things in Dark Souls aren't really that powerful in the way D&D measures things.

>>51481021

If your measuring stick is trying to tell you that literal gods and primal entities who create and shape entire eras of a high fantasy world aren't that powerful, maybe your measuring stick is the thing which isn't fit to task?

>>51481109
See

>>51480837
>Sure it has that thing that Tolkien's shit also does, where the backgrounds of the characters make them out to be immortal super gods of everything, but their actual depictions aren't really all that impressive in the grand scheme of things.

That's especially a dumb criticism given what the OP said.

>>51481137

I never said OP wasn't just as dumb as you are.

>>51480950
Dark Souls 1: Artorias, Great Grey Wolf Sif, Ornstein and Smough.
Dark Souls 2: HA HA HA HA HA HA
Dark Souls 3: All the Lords of Cinder, Pontiff Sulyvhan, the Old Demon King, Dancer of the Boreal Valley, especially when you manage to light all the banners in the arena on fire.

Favorite NPCs are Solaire, any of the Onions, and the Fire Keeper in DS3. Bit pleb taste probably, but popular things tend to be popular for a reason.

>>51481150
Indeed, it's everyone else who is an idiot.

It's not that your setting manages to create a sense of threat and scale with a relatively low direct power level, it's that everyone are morons who don't get it.

>>51481221
The pursuer was pretty cool...

>>51481221

Dark Souls 2, despite being the weakest of the series, had a few great things. The Looking Glass Knight was awesome, as was the majority of the Sunken king and Ivory King DLC's. The Ivory King boss fight, the huge pitched battle followed by a fierce duel, was a high point of the game for me.

>>51480950
Orenstein and Smough! They compliment each other perfectly. Yhorm the giant is just tragic, I always think of Jonny Cash - Hurt when I think of him.

>>51481244
Don't forget the Smelter Demon. He was a high point in between 'Dumbfuck Poison Puzzle Boss' and 'Mediocre Design but Neat Fight'.

>>51481239
>>51481244
While I'm not one of those people who can't admit that DS2 did NOTHING right (it didn't do a lot of things right), individual bosses like that cannot make up for an experience I thought was just too... disjointed.

I can't blame them entirely for it. DS2 was made by a different team and a different director that had no experience making games like this one, and with themes like Dark Souls. I understand that, and I sympathize with that - something I think we could stand to do a bit better when it comes to the media we consume and enjoy.

But the things leading up to those bosses (looking at you, hallway to the Looking Glass Knight), and as a whole... it just doesn't click with me. I can have nostalgic memories of Dark Souls 1, just tooling around with my group of friends as we summoned each other, goofed around, and generally beat ass and made memories that'll personally last me a lifetime.

With Dark Souls 2, I cannot say I had those same experiences.

I think it's actually best if I describe it like this. Before the days when pre-ordering a game became tantamount to saying you raped children and burned the bodies after, I pre-ordered DS2 with all my friends. We were hype, we were eager, we went through our own personal challenge runs of DS1 to give the game one last sendoff before we moved onto DS2. After all, everything we say just implied it'd be DS1, but BETTER - the ideal thing for a sequel!

I ordered a pizza that night from a local place, ham and sausage, and a big 2-liter of coke. I had everything set up nice and tidy, and two of my friends were on for some JOLLY CO-OPERATION, and we were all starting at the same time.

I bit into my first slice of pizza, and it just... it wasn't that good. The sauce and cheese were lukewarm, despite the order just being out of the oven, the crust was stale, and the toppings were cold. It was like they just put this one under the heatlamp.

That's how I feel about DS2.

>>51481244
I liked the fume knight. He punishes you for bad habits. And that the use of estus takes long.

>>51481460

That really sucks, to have something disappoint you that badly.

I guess I'm lucky, coming to the series late. I only played DS1 after Scholar of the First Sin had already come out, and from what I can tell the DS2 experience was a lot better by that point.

It was still way, way worse than DS1, but I enjoyed my time with it. After I'd finished levelling up Adaptability, fuck that design choice with a rusty rake. Having to level a stat to stop the game feeling unresponsive and shitty is the worst fucking idea.

>>51480950
Havel the Rock. He or at least his armor saved my soul. If not for him then I would've never finished the game and have just gone hollow. Then I grew to love his character as a man who was (probably) betrayed due to political intrigue and standing up for what's right.

>>51481518
Soul Memory was also cancer, since that just fucks over the entire meta of the game. I understand they added SOMETHING to get rid of it, but that just seems so ass. It shouldn't have been a thing.

Dark Souls 3, while it is not free of it's own issues, feels to me like a proper sequel to the series, and a fitting conclusion to it.

Honestly, the ending where you cease the First Flame's existence feels to me like the best possible conclusion for the series. The fire dies, the embers burn out, and darkness comes, but there's hope for rebirth into something better.

As one of the themes of the series is the cyclical nature of the world, I felt it was a fitting, somber ending to finally break the cycle, and to simply end the suffering of it's inhabitants - and they were suffering.

After so many hours invested into the series, it felt like the only ending that made sense to me.

Also had the best soundtrack of the three games in my opinion.

>>51481631

And we've still got The Ringed City to come. While Ariandel was mostly plot adjacent, the last DLC looks to be directly related, so we might see an alternate or expanded ending.

That was one of the things I liked about DS2. The full DLC ending you got in Scholar of the First Sin was fascinating, letting you reject both Light and Dark. To acknowledge that any choice made within the cycle was no choice at all, just endless repetition... Letting you choose your own path, beyond the known.

>>51480950
DaS1: Artorias, Ornstein and Smough, Gaping Dragon, and Quelaag
DaS2: Mirror Knight, Ivory King, Demon of Song, Sinh.
DaS3: Abyss Watchers, Nameless King, Twin Princes.
There's probably a lot of bosses I am missing.

NPCs: Quelana, Karla, Solaire, Laurentius, Lautrec, Irina, Sirris, Sieglinde, the Giant Blacksmith, Gough, Rosabeth, Gavlan

Also should we include DeS in this or nah?

>>51480773
The fuck is CR?

>>51481783

A symptom of D&D induced brain damage.

>>51481221
>liking the Yhorm bossfight

They ruined what could have been an epic confrontation with a stupid gimmick. I don't care if it was a throwback.

>>51480837
Siegmeyer is obvious answer, but other than that probably Patches. His friendship with Greyrat is cute

>>51481802
>butthurt anon is still upset the games he likes aren't popular

2017 and counting.

>>51481851
>throwbacks

The biggest problem with dark souls 3

>>51481883

>I'm so insecure I can't cope without assuming everyone I disagree with is the same person!

You'd hollow in a heartbeat.

>>51481912

I actually really liked them. Dark Souls 2 had a lot of DS1 references, but they were always throwaways, visual references or illogical cameos that didn't really have a place or impact on the world.

In DS3, while there's a lot of references to the earlier games they all have meaning. It's a real choice on the part of developers, highlighting the cyclical nature of things, how the old is remembered and patterns recur endlessly.

>>51481913
>butthurt anon is still upset the games he likes aren't popular, AND thinks it matters who else might be butthurt like he is

We're well aware there's a cute little crew of butthurt anons. I think they mostly hang out in the GURPS general, feeling bitter.

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When will the endless /v/ threads end

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>>51480950

>>51482029
When /v/ becomes not shit which is never.

Obligatory "How would you run a Dark Souls style campaign" question, because it usually incites some interesting discussion..

>>51480950
Fav:
Lucatiel

Runners Up:
Alsanna & the Ivory King
Solaire
The Twin Princes

Honorable mentions:
Eygon of Carim
Havel

>>51481757
>>51483405
Why do you like the ivory king?

>>51482126
This.
There a a select few threads on /vg/ that are bearable, but /v/ is filled to the brim with underage edgelords and /pol/lacks.

>>51483436

Eleum Loyce was a well designed area with some great bossfights and unique mechanics. How you dealt with Ava was interesting, as was having to progress through the area a second time after melting the ice, facing new challenges and gathering the Knights to join you in battle.

It's probably my favourite of the DLC's, with Sunken being second and Old Iron a long distant third.

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>>51483436
His backstory.
The fact that he not only was a huge badass, but also dedicated to protect his people and the world at large from chaos.
The fact that knowing who and what Asanna was, he still took her in and that she repays his kindness by keeping the chaos contained.
Also, the two are one of the few cases of a sort-of happy ending in Souls, with you rescuing the souls of the king and his knights from the flames.

The godlike presentation of his bossfight also helps.

>>51483448
That's really a "your problem, not ours" kind of deal.

While I'm okay with the occasional off-topic thread in /tg/ if it's ultimately for the sake of generating discussion about traditional games (and not just paying lipservice for a few posts just so that you can discuss off-topic stuff on a slower/different board), /tg/ isn't really supposed to be the "I don't like [topic]'s board but I want to discuss [topic]" board, because that ultimately doesn't help anyone.

If you want to discuss a topic, go to that board, and if there's rule-breaking posts, report them. If you don't like the content of that board, be the change you want to see there.

>>51483653
I'd argue that the Souls series is pretty relevant to /tg/ due to the setting, same as fantasy or science fiction literature is /tg/ relevant.

>>51483536

That is one of the fascinating things about the Ivory King. When almost all others fell foul of the Dark, regardless of whether they tried to control it, fight it or flee it, he won its heart with compassion and love. When for all others it brought corruption, ruin and death, his kindness won the Darks enduring loyalty, even after he was gone.

It's an almost unique event in the setting, but a fascinating glimpse of how the world might change, if people ceased struggling and fighting the Dark, and instead embraced it.

>>51483448
Why did you repeat yourself at the end there?

>>51483945
Much as I'd like it to be otherwise, there are in fact people who never grow out of being rascit little shits.

>>51480837

Late to the party, but this post is stupid because it assumes HP is meat points in D&D. Which they aren't. A fighter getting 'hit' by a wolf isn't surviving being mauled, they're under pressure and struggling to keep it off them. This is literally what it tells you in the book.

Given that the Chosen/Cursed/Unkindled has hugely potent both offensive and defensive options, powerful magical artifacts, access to multiple different kinds of magic and is truly immortal with an almost limitless capacity for growth, even within D&D's busted CR system claiming DS is low powered is retarded.

>>51483769
I'm speaking in general.

>>51484353
And I'm saying it's something that should be judged on a case by case basis.

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>>51480950
>Dark Souls 1
Ornstein and Smough. Bombastic, awesome, and the place that separates the havel-babies from the men. As far as NPCs go, my favorite NPC in 1 would have to be Patches, Domnhall, or Siegmeyer. The first is completely unequivocably adorable in his mischief, while the second is a comfy friend and the third is a blundering knight who resolves to die with honor after so much of his journey was taken care of by you.

>Dark Souls 2
There's a LOT of bosses in 2 - and because of it, a higher number of REALLY GOOD ones. Ruin Sentinels, Smelter Demon, Looking Glass Knight, Velstadt the Royal Aegis, Raime the Fume Knight, Sir Alonne and the Ivory King were all very memorable encounters; if I had to pick a favorite, it's Fume Knight. However, most of the others just sort of blend into this mess of jumbled-up incoherent memories.

In a similar vein, it has a lot of NPCs. Lucatiel, Vengarl, Benhart, Straid, Creighton, Pate, and ALMIGHTY GAVLAN all stand out as good memories; however, it should be noted that most of the merchant NPCs were pretty uninteresting compared to Dark Souls 1.

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>>51484690
Dark Souls 2 also has bonus points for having my favorite Souls character of all time, Aldia. He (and Vendrick, but Vendrick really isn't much of a character) was the best incarnation of my feelings about the fluff of Dark Souls 2. It in my opinion had the coolest plotline, that of escape from this cosmic cycle that binds all to their tortuous existence, but it was disjointed and marred by the fact that they had to change director and shelve most of what they were working on halfway through. Also, while Aldia may have had a terrible bossfight, his voicework is godlike for the Souls series. https://youtu.be/-_9G4CG8N48?t=2m43s

>Dark Souls 3
I didn't really like it at all, and that's for a multitude of reasons. Regardless, Dark Souls 3 did have some cool fights. The Abyss Watchers were fun, as was Aldrich and Yhorm (Though that giant fight was a goddamn waste and Miyazaki knows it). The Twin Princes were definitely my favorite fight by far, but there were only like two or three really difficult bosses in the game: Nameless King, Pontiff Sulyvahn, and arguably Twin Princes/Dancer of the Boreal Valley. The rest were too easy or bland.

The NPCs of Dark Souls 3 suffer mostly from one of the chief issues I have with Dark Souls 3: it depends way too much on Dark Souls 1. A good chunk of the NPCs are just lifted straight from Dark Souls 1 or very clearly supposed to be very reminiscent of specific characters from 1. I was greatly uninterested with pretty much every single new NPC they added except for Greirat, Yoel, and Yuria. All three of those guys were superb characters.

>>51484069
Sorry but almost nothing PC or his enemies does goes beyond 3rd level spells in D&D. Immortality will be a "racial" template in this case. Probably will have pretty steep LA but nothing that special around things with regeneration. Limitless capacity for growth is a basic assumption of D&D worlds.

Don't forget that 6th level fighters in D&D can break castle walls with bare hands. At level 20 even the most shitty of classes can pull off some bullshit that makes most Dark Souls shenanigans look like child's play.

Check out SRD Epic Skills. And then consider that some purpose built characters can pull them off around level 10.

>>51480837
The protagonist of a souls game can also eat a fucking lightning spear from God himself and walk it off with only needing to chug some orange coolaid.

It's a video game that was accidentally hard and that accidental difficulty got transformed into a core mechanic. Demon Souls was not supposed to be as difficult as people found it to be. You cannot compare the fact that a random quirk turned what, lorewise. is a walking demi-god who fights literal gods into a glass cannon.

>>51481631

When I heard that Dark Souls II was going to be developed by a different dev team, I essentially imagined we would be getting a rehash of DaS designed to print money.

Instead we get something as detached from DaSI as possible. DaSII is truly its own identity, it's greatly creative and much of the interesting lore is realised in Dark Souls II, which gave definition to this world which revolving around an endless cycle.
At the same time, though, I felt Dark Souls II took us to the logical conclusion of the series. Light and Dark don't matter any more, we know its a meaningless choice, so we're given the choice of simply perpetuating the cycle or seeking a way to end it.

Dark Souls III, however, was one of the most disappointing games I've played. I believe it has the worst gameplay in the franchise, but that aside I was tearing my hair out by the end for how derivative the narrative was, the sheer abundance of "references" to Dark Souls and Demon's Souls was simply obnoxious. One of the main story bosses, Yhorm, is defeated by a Demon's Souls reference and even an entire ending of the game contains within it a Demon's Souls reference.
I longed for the orginality of Dark Souls II (and had to do another playthrough after DaSIII to wash the awful taste away).

Dark Souls II is my favourite of the trilogy, but Dark Souls isn't far behind.
Wasn't happy at all with Dark Souls III though.

>>51484754

>Stats, HP, resistances, etc don''t scale in Souls games

hurrrr

>damage certainly doesn't scale UP over the course of the game, no sir not at all

DDUUURRRRR

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>>51482029

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>>51484703

Nameless King was the only truly difficult boss, and by far the most fun part of the game. Twin Princes was just a damage race while the cripples flopped about, Dancer was only hard because people looked at her ass and not her swords, and Sulyvahn was easy once you got the timing of his Stand down.

>>51484792

Dark Souls 3 took more from Bloodborne than it did Dark Souls 1 and 2. It really did feel like if you put a pistol into DS3 you got BBB.

>>51484941

Sully was just "please don't parry me" the boss.
Once he summoned Star Platinum things got even easier because you could tell what move he was going to do next.
Almost all of his attacks can be pretty easily parried.

Nameless King doesn't have an answer to ranged attacks. As a caster I beat him with almost no effort because his only long ranged attack is an easily dodged shockwave.

>>51480837
He's riding a fucking drake, dude.

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>>51480950
This cleric loathing, professional squatting, bridge turning madman right here.

>>51480950
Quelana of Izalith, because Dark Souls 1 Pyromancy was the absolute best and I'm still annoyed that they changed it to be a stat-investment school of magic rather than purely soul-based.

Solaire, because he helps you with every major challenge and is the only one strong enough to stand against Gwyn. My preferred ending is the Chosen Undead choosing Dark Lord, while Solaire links the flame in his own world. Two old friends parting ways down very different paths as their journey reaches its end.

Iron Tarkus, because he's the biggest baddest motherfucker this side of Anor Londo.

Lucatiel, because I genuinely felt bad for her. The fact you find out that the Bearer of the Curse kept his promise in Dks3 was touching.

Greirat, because he's one brave little bastard in the face of so much sadness.

The DKS3 fire keeper and Ludleth, because they go along with your treasonous plan to bring an end to fire entirely and finally break the miserable fucking cycle.

Siegfried, Sieglinde and Siegward. Catarina seems like a wonderful place, it would have been nice to visit before everything went to shit.

Hawkeye Gough. The strongest and simultaneously most gentle of the four knights.

Sirris, one of very few Knights ghat acthall manage to fulfill their vows.

Really, it's a lot easier to list the characters you don't like rather than the ones you do

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>>51480950
npc wise, i really like big hat logan

boss like, and it might be an unpopular opinion to give it to a dark souls 2 boss, but i really like looking glass knight. the first time i played it i said to myself "man im getting really tired of these empty castle halls" and then stepping outside into the arena with rain pouring down and thunder going off in the backround, with this huge knight in silvery amour made me go "yessssss", and then he actually summoned another player, which blew my mind.... and then i got my ass kicked.

damn i wish Miyazaki would have directed dark souls 2 instead, it got some really cool stuff but compared to the other games it's just really bland

>>51485044
Black leather seat is still the most fashionable set in the series

>>51484792

>DS3
>Worst gameplay of the series

What? Sorry, can you go into more detail? I find it really hard to wrap my head around this.

>>51481109
Why is it the typical Souls fanboy response is to praise how powerful the enemies are, when in reality the games are only "hard" because the controls are ass? Never crossed your mind that the reason everything dies so quickly is they're not actually that powerful? Fuck, Gwyn in the first game can be one-shot, and he's a "god" isn't he?

>>51484069
>under pressure and struggling to keep it off them
That's one interpretation of HP you can choose to subscribe to, but not everyone agrees.

>>51484789
Not all gods are created equal. Souls games aren't hard, the controls are just terrible.

>>51481783
Challenge Rating, a system DnD uses to rate encounters. A CR 5 monster is supposed to be powerful enough to consume 1/4th of the resources of a level 5 party of 4 player characters.

>>51482767
Just mod Exalted, it has the same rocket tag feel to it.

>>51482767
Some kind of point-buy system but the points are also your earned experience and currency. Dying isn't the end of a character, but is tracked on a Hollowing meter. Otherwise it's mostly just dungeon crawling and set pieces.

>>51487860
He's the burnt out shell of a god.

>>51487868

It's literally the definition in the book. If you disagree, you're homebrewing/handwaving it.

>>51487860
>>51487876

>The controls are terrible

You what? The controls are great. Different to the norm for action RPG's, but Souls is a very different experience with different priorities. I'm sure they suck if you try to play it like an ordinary action RPG, but on its own terms the only game with 'bad' controls would be DS2 due to some annoying hangups like Adaptability.

>>51487983
This. The only bad thing about the controls you could really say is that the camera is kinda stupid sometimes.

Otherwise, it's all on you.

>>51487990

Yeah, the camera can be a bitch, but that affects almost every action RPG/character action game. Even famed stuff like the Devil May Cry series suffered from some awful camera bullshit.

>>51487970
And he's the final boss, kind of destroys the idea all the rest of the enemies in the game were all that tough doesn't it?

>>51487983
Negro what? Do you even remember DS1? Having to hold still while healing, camera gets stuck in a wall, can't move while shooting anything, pain in the ass jumping mechanic, greased ledges, and every fight is nothing but rolling around and ass-poking everything to death. Shit controls, arbitrary bullshit and a complete lack of a guide does not make a game good, it makes the devs lazy. They stopped before the game was finished.

>>51488086

I don't know what to tell you man, I loved Dark Souls 1's control scheme. The jumping mechanic was arse, yeah, but that's one of the things DS2 ended up fixing.

The fighting is fucking awesome though. That slow, measured pace of combat, having to learn your enemies moves and figure out the right time to strike, time and stamina management being key to success... It's a truly unique experience. You can't just go in swinging and expect to be okay, you have to really think.

>>51488086
>Having to hold still while healing

That's intentional. You need to choose when to heal carefully. You can't just spam healing and brute force your way through fights.

>camera gets stuck in a wall

I've only had this happen to me a few times, and it's never been during a combat encounter. Your mileage may vary, but I really don't think it's that big of a problem.

>can't move while shooting anything

It's not a fucking FPS you twat. Like healing, you need to choose when to shoot carefully. You can't just blindly spam your way through enemies.

>pain in the ass jumping mechanic

Okay, that's fair.

>greased ledges

Dunno which ledges you're talking about, but the jumping is admittedly ass, so I'm willing to give you that.

>and every fight is nothing but rolling around and ass-poking everything to death.

If you're playing a light build, sure. Heavy-armour builds can march into battle with a giant shield and sword, and tank damage like champs. Magic builds get to attack at range, and have a variety of extra utility abilities to choose from.

And I fail to see how "rolling around" is a bad thing in any case. Rolls are a fundamental aspect of the combat system. They're a temporary invincibility move that can get you out of trouble. You're supposed to be using them constantly. Complaining about them is like complaining that the game expects you stab enemies with your sword.

As for ass-poking, the only enemies that are like that are stuff like bosses and minibosses. If you're feeling forced to do that with normal enemies, then you're either under-leveled for the area you're in, you've failed to allocate your stats properly, or you've neglected to upgrade your weapons.

>arbitrary bullshit

Explain.

>a complete lack of a guide

Pay attention. Pay attention to what NPCs tell you. Pay attention to the descriptions of items in your inventory. Explore every nook and cranny you can reach. The game is about exploring. Do so.

>>51488086
>And he's the final boss, kind of destroys the idea all the rest of the enemies in the game were all that tough doesn't it?

It doesn't. You are working off of the assumption that a plot important NPC who you fight as your final opponent has to be the strongest; he doesn't, unless you are running off of escalating action vidya logic (which, may I mention, is fine for other games). Him being kinda weak fits with the narrative of burning out, locked away beneath his crumbling shrine.

And he's still ridiculously strong, compared to your average hollow.

I was thinking about something the other day, the differences between Firelink Shrine and Majula, why one felt like home every time I returned there while the other felt... I don't know, wrong somehow.

I think it's that Majula feels very artificial to me. This random cluster of buildings in the middle of nowhere which happens to be linked to everywhere important but lacks any real story of its own. Why was the mansion and the map there? Who lived there? It's too small to be a town and doesn't really seem to have any defining features beyond the pit. And then every single location that could house a person did so. It was all too... Convenient. It was an arbitrary hub location.

Firelink, meanwhile? It was a mysterious ruined shrine with a good reason why it seemed to be at the center of everything, the entrance to the Kiln beneath it. And it felt like a real place- There were parts of it that were never used by anyone, and just existed as part of the ruins of what was once likely a large temple or church. NPCs found their own little spots amidst the rubble, making do with whatever shelter they could find instead of each one getting their own little room or perching place.

I think that kinda encapsulates why DS1 is better than DS2, thematically. DS2 tried too hard to emulate DS1 to the point it felt artificial.

>>51485433
My headcanon's actually pretty similar to yours, actually. My favorite character ended up abandoning the kiln, while Solaire eventually ended up lighting it (after summoning a certain greatsword-wielding friend of his :D).

>>51480950
My favorite character is what I like calling a story build, where he only uses equipment I can justify him using in a narrative sense. Every piece of his loadout is associated with one or more of my favorite characters. Here's how it works out.

>Greatsword of Artorias
The broest of wolfbros are memorialized in this sword. ;.;7 RIP Artorias, RIP Sif.
>Darkmoon Bow
Gwyndolin/Gods in general. The Gods cursed and abandoned humanity, and yet they still expect obedience? I think not...
>Pyromancy Flame
Laurentius gave my character a piece of his own soul, which eventually came into its true potential under Quelaana's tutelage.
>Crest Shield
Oscar was my character's first ally in Lordran. He was also the first he had to kill. This shield kept him safe throughout his journey - something its original owner no doubt would have been glad to hear.

>>51480837
I don't think a CR 3 creature would be able to cast Lightning Bolt. The only example of a creature I can think of that can is a hag, and hags only get access to that spell when there are at least three of them gathered together in a coven.

>>51490122

Ignore the CR3tard. He's just shown a complete lack of understanding of both D&D and Dark Souls.

>>51488608
See, while I can see where you are coming from about Majula and respect your stance, I prefered it to firelink in some ways.

The manor and small houses around it gave it the feel of something built for a purpose it has long since forgotten and that people are now living there is a metaphor for a salvation from hollowing.
When you first arrive, all that is there is those on the edge, about to give up, much like yourself, but as you go along and bring people in it restores some hope to the world just as you realise the curse might just be beatable; not through arms, but through your bonds with others.
It really does make me think someone in the writing had a relative they helped keep themselves going through Alzheimer's or dementia.

>>51490204
Indeed, because it's not like this is a game where you get stabbed twice by a skeleton and then you die.

No siree, that's not something that happens in Dark Souls.

It's not like this is a game that's an intentional subversion of the high powerlevel standard fantasy fare or anything, that would just be fucking daft.

I swear you guys are either retarded or trying to sound that way on purpose.

>>51489997
Only bit of roleplaying I did was in DS2(which was my first laugh all you want) where I played a knight who had forgotten his original quest and went along with the emerald herald because she seemed to have some answers. I decided on his story at Eleum Loyce.

He had been a trusted knight of that realm, known for his arcane knowledge and tenacity. He was sent out on a quest to find an answer to the Chaos. He never did. His armor wore down and was mended with scrap, his shield lost and replaced. Finally when his sword broke he fell and became the chosen undead.

When he returned to Eleum Loyce he remembered and fought hard and bitterly to return to his kings side and do what's right, what maybe he could have done if he had stayed.

In the end he chose the third path. All he had learned on his journey and the revelations regarding his own queen proved their was something else out there. There had to be.

>>51490540

>Hurr, HP is meat points

Read the system, learn what things mean, then shut the fuck up.

>>51490549
No, you do it.
This idea that HP represents an ability to dodge or whatever the fuck is new, and it was a justification /tg/ used for a while.

You don't know what you're talking about twice, and you're projecting that unto me because you feel the need to defend your favourite game from an imaginary slight.

>>51490735

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/injuryandDeath.htm

>Hit points mean two things in the game world: the ability to take physical punishment and keep going, and the ability to turn a serious blow into a less serious one.

Oh would you look at that, you're an idiot.

>>51480950
>Artorias and Sif
Great designs and a sad story (especially if you include cut content)
>Solaire
His cheery, friendly attitude was a nice break from pretty much everyone else's (understandable) doom and gloom outlook
>Siegward
An oaf, but a very likable one
>Dragonslayer Ornstein
Badass design and I like what little lore there is on him
>Sieglinde
Her whole story arc breaks my heart every time. A girl setting out into a VERY dangerous place to deliver her mother's dying words to her father only to find him hollow and be forced to kill him in self-defense

>>51490541
Nice. You know, in some weird, bizarre scenario I thought up, my DS1 character and my DS2 character were transported by some deity to a plane where they had to fight to the death. One having an entirely justified hatred of gods and the other seeing gods as nothing more than arrogant tyrants, and both being undead Lords of downright ridiculous power, they naturally fuck this deity's shit right the hell up. For some reason gangs from both games were brought as spectators, and afterwards intermingle. Many stories are shared. JOLLY COOPERATION!

>>51490827
Do you think by "Turn a serious blow into a less serious one" they meant miss anon?
Are you retarded anon?

Do you think maybe there's a reason that dodge doesn't add to HP?

>>51493026

Near misses, shield blocks, that kind of thing. It's funny how you resort to personal insults when you've had your point disproven.

I've actually been pondering it, and even with the stupid assumption that HP are meat points, the CR3 thing still doesn't hold up.

Sure, the Chosen/Cursed/Unkindled dies to a few hits from a basic enemy... At the start of the game. But things, y'know, scale. Those enemies become negligibly dangerous as you become more powerful and face greater and greater threats, making the assertion that they're low power due to dying in a few hits... Essentially meaningless.

On top of that, you're acting as if the character of Dark Souls just sits there and takes it, but no. You're moving and dodging and blocking all the time. If you stand there like an idiot and let yourself get stabbed, sure you'll die quickly. Just like most D&D characters die easily if they do nothing to protect themselves.

These are characters who can survive being hit with hammers several times larger than themselves, who can block spear thrusts that shatter stone and dodge lightning bolts.

I do rather like the term 'CR3tard'. It feels very fitting in context.

>>51488086
>And he's the final boss
He's also not the hardest boss in that game. Manus is much more challenging.

>>51491917
I always wondered if bosses and npcs would think it was weird that phantoms from other worlds would know/have shit that others shouldn't. Like how did that one know about the secret passage behind the bookcase, ho does that one have my sword hen I'm holding it right here, or how did that one have my favorite brand of beer, they don't even make the stuff anymore.

>>51490540
>Indeed, because it's not like this is a game where you get stabbed twice by a skeleton and then you die

Do you never put points into vitality or something?

>>51493162

>Manus
>Challenging

You can use Havel's greatshield and be literally immune to him for the entire fight, he's 100% physical

>>51480950
Lucatiel of Mirrah of course. She's everything I love about DS2. The whisper and hint of exotic settings beyond Drangleic, honour and promises turning hollow and insignificance in the face of time, realising that you are less than a grain of sand in the mighty hourglass.

File: 1460829402195.jpg (5KB, 250x224px) Image search: [Google]

5KB, 250x224px

>>51488086
>mfw never had any of these issues besides the camera being a faggot sometimes
and
>Having to hold still while healing,
mad because bad
keep chugging, boy

>>51488086
>And he's the final boss, kind of destroys the idea all the rest of the enemies in the game were all that tough doesn't it?

Not really, at least not by comparison to their initial forms. But here's the thing, you are a fucking wretch who's cleaning house, literally an undead mongaloid who's either going to stoke the flame or eat everything and leave. Everything has degraded to all fuck, most of the gods are either in a powerless state, dead or fucked off. The power level of the setting has been decreasing exponentially.

>>51493993
> Progenitor of man
> Clubbed by a rock
How very appropriate.

>>51487900
What is the highest rating?

>>51494635
You're forgetting one God who wasn't actually weakened. He was getting stronger. Manus was at his best when the Chosen Undead fought him. That implies that the Chosen undead could, at that point, actually kill a god at full power.

Gwyndolin doesn't count, he/she/it always was a wuss

>>51494732
My problem with that is that Manus was never a fighting god, he was the furtive pygmy until the worms thought it would be a good idea to get the townsfolk to dig up a corpse. Of course your point still has merit, though I feel it could be contested.

But yea, Gwyndolin gets swept under the rug super hard.

>>51494785
I definitely see your point, trust me. Still, the x factor here is how quickly his strength was growing as the first flame waned. He was sure as hell stronger than the WEAKEST of the gods. The question is, by the time that the Chosen Undead found him, how did he compare to one of the stronger ones? Considering the fact that Gwyn sent Artorias, one of the four strongest warriors he had at his disposal, it's likely that Manus was growing at a pretty scary rate.

>>51484754
>Don't forget that 6th level fighters in D&D can break castle walls with bare hands
A 6th level fighter can't even wield a greatsword with one hand, an unkindled can wield ultra greatswords, great hammers, and great axes one handed often with ease. Beyond that >>51484069 is right in that HP isn't just meat points. Even if it was a high level unkindled (which is pretty much needed to defeat the nameless king) can easily take being stomped on or smashed around by a giant or a dragon multiple times.

Combine with that the fact that they can easily heal a huge portion of their health with the equivalent difficulty of drinking a healing potion (so probably the same as always carrying 4-15 supreme healing potions) or effectively recover spell slots with the same effort and they are actually pretty powerful. While their magic is lacking the estus, bonfires, and immortality more than make up for that.

>>51484941
>Sulyvahn was easy once you got the timing of his Stand down
I just used iron flesh and tanked his hits. At least dancer had the damage output to make such a plan risky.

The only bosses I had any difficulty with were the Nameless King, Princes, Pontiff before I learned to use iron flesh, and Champion Gundyr. Bosses that give you time to heal are easy as hell to beat, bosses that are fast and chase you down can actually be difficult.

Rating the ones I can remember off the top of my head
Challenging Tier
>Nameless King
>Ice Queen (holy fuck just die already)
Tricky Tier
>Twin Princes
>Champion Gundyr
>Pontiff
>Dragonslayer Armour
Meh Tier
>Soul of Cinder
>Graveyard Man and Wolf
>Dancer
>Consumed King
>Iudex Gundyr
If you lose once you objectively suck Tier
>Vordt
>Old Demon King
>Skeleton Man

>>51484792
I just found DarkSouls3 to be easy mode, since I started the entire franchise with Bloodborne

Aka Rollcity

I was dodgerolling everything from the tree to the dragonslayer.

>>51495079
What I find stupid are people that play through the whole game with summons. You could literally have your character lie down during boss fights and still win if you have two or three summons.

>>51495128
I literally never summoned or parried.
I shit you not, it wasn't until my second playthrough that I even managed a parry.

On Consumed King.

>>51495146
*on my firstplaythrough

>>51495128

I summon, but I know I'm shit at souls. I'll generally try my best to kill a boss on my own but at a certain point I'll fall back on Jolly Cooperation. It may not be the 'right' way to do it, but when it stops being fun I don't really feel bad about getting help.

>>51495165
I tried out the summoning on DS2 after beating Bloodborne and DarkSouls3.

On the scorpion bitch.

>>51495146
I literally refuse to do pontiff sulvayn's fight without parrying. There may be like one fight on ds2 I parried on but don't remember. I think it's a stupid fucking mechanic that doesn't belong in the game. When PvP consists entirely of people fishing for parries by spamming them (that you don't even see until it's too late thanks to lag), the mechanic is silly.

I would be fine with it being something only monsters could do. Honestly, I dont think shields belong in the games either.

>>51495146
I never parried, never learned how to. Early on I used summons sometimes because DS 3 was my first souls game so I was still new but I found it so much more rewarding when I won without help.

>>51480773
He's a demigod of war and storms with some sort of litch template and a fucking elder drake companion. He also spent his youth casually killing so many IMMORTAL ELDER DRAGON TITANS that he felt guilty about it.

I'm assuming it's going to be pretty high.

>>51480837
about this.

>>51495225

>I dont think shields belong in the games either.

Man, I fucking love the shield gameplay. It might be easymode but I enjoy it a lot. It's why I prefer the traditional Souls games to Bloodborne, as fucking awesome as BB is. I prefer the slower pace.

>>51494926
Yep support items actually probably the most powerful from the DnD standpoint. Wielding larger weapons is possible in DnD through different means but most of the time isn't worth it.

6th level fighter may not be able to wield large weapons but he very much can break the enemy greatswords, cut down walls or kill something like a manticore with 1 attack on a charge.

High level fighters are at very least have a way to fly or some other means of getting to flying opponents in their own environment (magic items, ToB, epic skills) because only in computer games a dragon will go down to earth if he can breath fire and throw spells while flying. And most fighters who survived to such a level have analogue of death touch - they deal enough damage to drop most targets in one round.

>>51495225
Sheilds are arguably an invaluable tool, but parrying is shit. Human enemies, I could understand, but ehh.

And the pvp is cancer by default. You cannot possibly convince me otherwise.

>>51495274
I love the pure adrenaline you get when you roll NARROWLY out of the way of a massive swing, like when you're dodging those huge swipes from Gherman

Forsome reason, I aced the Moon Presence fight, but Gherman wrecked me.

>>51495280
>or kill something like a manticore with 1 attack on a charge
I mean an unkindled can kill a good number of things with 1 attack. Although I am wondering how the hell you are putting out that much damage per attack with a fighter?

I could argue that BB has a higher difficukty rating than DS3 did.

No shields, enemies almost always have tremendously punishing combos and effects, and the NPC fights you find (the other hunters) are far more difficult than any red phantom in Dark Souls.

>>51495334
I would probably agree that BB is more difficult than DS 3. Might be due to more experience with DS 3 but so many of the bosses seemed almost trivial, or there was a trick to beating them easily.

>>51495334
jesus christ yes

that clocktower machinegunning faggot was the WORST but god damn was it cool to fight him 1v1 in such a small space
Fuck Micolash Cage though. He was just a slippery fuck.

>>51495389
I go by first bosses since they are the first impression.

Cleric Beast >>>>>>>>Index

>>51495393
Man I just enjoyed helping people out through the DLC. Rapehorse fucking mulched players, and the kosm's kid just strait up cheated.

>>51495429
Fucking orphan I swear to god

Maria was fun as fuck to fight though, but fags got mad someone else could cheese harder with quick moves.

She telegraphed a bit hard, but it was well able to be switched up.


Moonlight sword was ehh, but not too bad if you could get the room for it to work.


I stick with Cleaver or Whirligig.

>>51495411
I really struggled with Iudex at first, I mean now I can beat him to death with my hands but my first attempts to play the game it literally took me like 30 tries to beat him.

>>51495490
It helps that I chose the Cleric class.

Maces just mash through armor so good

>>51495481
Maria is a fight best done alone, Hunter a' Hunter.
Honestly though I ran beast claws the whole game, it's fun being able to crawl up people's assholes, especially with that good beast shit.

>>51495490
Iudex has a weird delay on his attacks after the windup that catches people off guard, even if they've played the games before. He waits about a half second after his attack windup to fully attack, so if you just roll at the end of the windup like you would every other enemy, he'll catch you. That and his phase 2 is actually pretty hard if you don't realize you can just hug his body and beat on him.

>>51495531
I jus can't stop laughing when I stunlock enemies with the whirligigglestick

Fucking mobs, shredded to bits. But fuck those shark things in the fishing village tho.

desu, only the crystal mage gave me issues other than the fuckmunch Wolnir, because I didn't know I couldn't stay to his sides.

>>51495563
Oh god the summons to that area where delicious on launch, I must have lost fifteen beckons to that fucking well alone. Never mind the people I lost to shark dogs. Why do hosts insist on gunning it ahead?

>>51495605
because they don't realize that the sharks can change trajectory

>>51495605
What they don't realize is that the sharks will actually attack each other.

>>51493084
> It's funny how you resort to personal insults when you've had your point disproven.

Mr. IMAX over here.

>Near misses, shield blocks, that kind of thing.

Shields don't add to HP anon.
None of that adds to HP.
And your shield doesn't get better by virtue of a "Cure wound" spells.

Are you playing sillybuggers?

>
These are characters who can survive being hit with hammers several times larger than themselves, who can block spear thrusts that shatter stone and dodge lightning bolts.

All of this is true for D&D characters who can take on enemies of CR3 on their own too.
GG.

I vastly prefer BB's weapons.

Cool as fucj, different playstyles avaliable with just one weapon, and wonderful items that can give you the edge, no matter how odd.

Trickweapons bestweapons.

>>51495763
They add to AC which you use to avoid damage altogether. Which is a similar thing you do in dark souls to avoid damage alltogether.

But comparing a video game to an RPG is pointless because there's so many factors that are fundamentally different between the two that any comparison is rendered meaningless.
Example:
>High level fighters have means of flight
If you add in the option of flight then the entire game's level design needs to be remade to account for it.
>Classes determine whether your character is useful or not.
The only thing classes do in Dark Souls is determine your starting stat distribution, and that can be changed with an item later in the game.
>AC
In a video game you can memorize attack patterns to make sure the enemy NEVER HITS. No magic needed.
>Spells work off of a shared mana pool to switch up castings on the fly.
That would just make every caster even more broken than they already are.

>>51495763
>Shields don't add to HP anon.
But someone giving a motivational speech can increase your hit points.

>>51495763
>Shields don't add to HP anon.
>None of that adds to HP.
Shields add to AC which increases the chance of taking no damage whatsoever, which effectively increases your theoretical HP when taking into account the HP you won't lose due to misses.
Also, dodging could be seen as a defensive action which gives a not unsubstantial bonus to AC.

>>51496080
>Shields add to AC which increases the chance of taking no damage whatsoever, which effectively increases your theoretical HP when taking into account the HP you won't lose due to misses.
>Also, dodging could be seen as a defensive action which gives a not unsubstantial bonus to AC.

Anon.
This was an argument about what HP is, not about AC. AC is your ability to not be harmed, HP is your ability to shrug off damage.

Anon claimed that HP wasn't "Meat points" and represented not getting hit, which doesn't make fucking sense.

>>51496033
HP represents your ability to shrug off damage and not be dead from said damage.
Motivational speeches bringing people back from near certain death is a staple of fiction.
>>51495892
>They add to AC which you use to avoid damage altogether. Which is a similar thing you do in dark souls to avoid damage alltogether.

Sure.
That's besides the point though.

>cr3tard

Posting exclusively to point out how great a name this is, will use it in the future to label people who don't understand what abstract mechanics represent, up there with
>20 lightsabers

>>51496378

And the posters pointing out you're full of shit even if you do accept the stupid notion that HP equals meat points?

>>51496378
>Motivational speeches bringing people back from near certain death is a staple of fiction.
The speech needs to be at least 10 minutes long. It isn't an on the verge of death speech nor is it particularly limited you can give the speech every morning and give your entire party up to 25 hp.

>>51496378
In dark souls your dodge bonus to AC increases every time you face the enemy and is based on player skill and not character skill.

There.

>>51496499
>The speech needs to be at least 10 minutes long. It isn't an on the verge of death speech nor is it particularly limited you can give the speech every morning and give your entire party up to 25 hp.
This reminds me of this thread on roleplaying vs rolling.
>>51475081

>>51496409
Well, they're not so much "Pointing out something" as "arguing for something poorly"

>>51496558
That is also against the point.
The point here is that with the method of determining strength that D&D uses this guy is not that strong, and saying that dodging is AC doesn't change that.

>>51496639
So what you're saying is that instead of dodging, blocking, or taking small wounds, a character gets fully hit every time?
Does that mean my 50 HP character can get stabbed with a dagger from 13 different people and still survive (13d4 average 32.5, max 52, min 13) with all 13 daggers firmly lodged in his body. Also he can fight to the best of his abilities while imitating a pin cushion.

>>51496754
D&D is retarded like that. CR3tard just can't grasp that you can't just apply D&D to everything and expect it to make sense.

>>51480995
Hi Hidetaka

Honestly? CR 1
Four players working in concert at literally any soul level can easily beat any boss in the game as long as they've already memorized the move set of that boss. But in all practicality by that time in the game your SL is at least 120 and you'd only need one or two other summons at most.

You can't compare D&D combat to Dark Souls combat. In D&D you've got standard, move, minor, and free actions. You can't act on an enemy's turn and when they attack you just have to hope they miss. In Dark Souls there is no such thing as turns, standard actions, or AC. Everyone goes at the same time and combat ends in seconds to minutes instead of minutes or hours. Well, mostly seconds of you are expecting a full adventuring party fighting each enemy.

>>51497216

This is why we call them CRtards anon. They're incapable of realising that D&D is a stupid thing to use as a measuring stick or doing the basics necessary to adapt their thoughts to fit, instead trying to cram square pegs into round holes while calling everyone else idiots..

>>51481608
He wasnt betrayed
He went hollow