Vampires and religious items

Why can't the belief manifest in any other item?

Can't it be that god exists and his holy items ward off evil?

>>51431409
The beliefs of the bearer is strong enough to harm supernatural beings should be good enough.
Also, it depends on the setting.

>>51431409
In World of Darkness, holy symbols and other shit does not work on vampires, unless their wielder is a true believer - a rarity in that setting. The stronger is a man's belief, the more of a threat is he to the vampire.

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>>51431409
Or, seeing as these tales are grounded in religion, why not just leave them as religious?
If this somehow triggers buttmad atheists, just use a polytheistic fantasy god, like Pelor.

It's not that hard.

>>51431498
Does silver still work?

>>51431409
Mother fuckers do you even Dracula?

>god curses man for cursing gods name
>turn him into vampire
>people still don't understand why holy relics hurt vampires

>>51431539
Read the story of Caine and Abel.

>>51431409

If that's how it works then it should apply to any group the faithful dislike enough to believe it doesn't belong in the world. Use against vampires will take a backseat as the religious zealots of the world plunge everything into a superwar.

>>51431462
Then only x religion works and vampires should be able to more effectively dominate the parts of the world where that religion is less present.

>>51431553
I will but I don't see what that has to do with the original story of Dracula. God trolled him and he gets rekt by holy items because God continues to troll him over his dead waifu

>>51431570
What if god just enjoys worship in different forms? Or there are many gods and they all hate vampires?

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Because the Sword is the universal icon of death and the return to an inert state, for the living and the undead.

Praise Humakt!

>>51431409
Why does it only work on vampires? Could nazis ward off Jews with religious symbols?

>>51431604
Why aren't they afraid of swords then?

>>51431620
They would much rather ward off commies and anglos

>>51431409
>strong belief that the vampire should not be allowed to exist
Does that include a strong belief that vampires and other undead CANNOT exist by all known models of biochemistry and thermodynamics, or does it have to be a moral opinion that they SHOULDN'T?

>>51431643
Definitely moral, get your science out of here atheist fag. Vampires are Christian! CHRISTIAN!

>>51431620

The Jews sure couldn't ward off Nazis with the Star of David.

>>51431438
No-one said it couldn't

>>51431643
You will have a bit of a problem with believing that they cannot exist if you face one.

>>51431598
The latter creates conflict for creation myths and the former makes God seem SUPER petty. That said I use the former all the goddamn time in real world settings.

>>51431678
>The latter creates conflict for creation myths
No, humans just don't know shit or interpret everything incorrectly. Like in TES.

>>51431570
How do we know vampires haven't taken over other parts of he world?

>>51431660
Actually since the definition of a vampire is something that drinks blood, almost all cultures have vampires.

>>51431673
Then why do you need religious items in the first place?

>>51431678
God is super petty, everyone knows this

>>51431738
Well, "My love is endless and I'm your kind lord but here's a list of ten things you must not do and if you do even just one of them you'll spend rest of the eternity in hell where you'll be tortured 24/7" kind of does send mixed signals...

>>51431731
You wouldn't. But since most humans will put their faith in a higher power when faced with an impossibly terrifying threat like a vampire they are going to put more (mostly desperate) belief in an item symbolic of their religion and the being they are begging to save them than say a gun.

>>51431730
That is what it's become, originally it was just Dracula and he was cursed by God. I'm sure blood drinking monsters have existed in stories since ancient times from many different cultures, but I don't think they were called vampires

>>51431814
Are you fucking serious?

>>51431788
Jews have no hell.

>>51431788
God is clearly a woman. Lucifer probably didn't even do anything wrong, he just got fucked in the divorce and lost his house

>>51431814
While Dracula is what we think of in modern culture when we say vampire, all the other cultures versions still count as vampires and always have since the only definition of a vampire is something that drinks blood

>>51431832
Yeah, so I've heard. Jewish endgame is basically zombie apocalypse where all the dead raise from their graves and collectively march towards the promised land, whatever that is.

>>51431826
Yea I'm serious. If you can provide me with stories that pre date Dracula and refer to him as a vampire that drinks blood and wasn't cursed by God I will retract my statement

>>51431553
Caine being the first vampire is not biblical, anon.

>>51431847
I'll bet you also think the only definition of marriage is two people that love each other. Despite the bible creating that word and it specifically stating man and wife

>>51431859
Vampire is just the English word for it. Just like the word god is different for different languages or how countries names can change depending what language you're speaking at the time.

>>51431409
Trying to athiest up your setting?

>>51431899
Well then where's the stories at? Surely they must exist if vampires weren't written about only in the last 100 years

>>51431598
I use the later for my setting. Almost all gods hate demons (and vampires are demons) so much that their holy symbols fuck them. Some religions are more effective than others tho, depending on how much they hate.

>>51431924
To think of vampires being noticeably similar across cultures is silly. Polish mythology has its own framework for vampires, only they aren't called as such, but their behavior and abilities were similar. Strigoi I think they were called. The concept of interred dead coming back to life in some malicious / evil form is present in most cultures, it's a very real and common fear.

>>51431859
Dude, I can provide countless examples. First of all, the word itself started to be used in Eastern European legends about dead people rising from their graves to drink blood of the living in the XVII century. Then, there is a lot of vampire literature that predates Dracula and features blood drinking vampires.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vampire#Medieval_and_later_European_folklore
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vampire_folklore_by_region#Slavic_Europe
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Vampyre
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carmilla

>>51431924
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vampire_folklore_by_region

If you want more accurate sources just research the ones that catch your interest.

>>51431677
Read the Dresden files. People unconsciously decide to not believe in what they see.

>>51431678
> myths conflict
> myths are wrong
What's the problem?

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I like the idea that it's specifically symbols of resurrection that hurt them, revealing their own undeath as inferior and fake.

Especially since the Sun is one of the most universal ones.

>>51431962
>>51431965
>>51431976
Sweet, I learned something today. Was that so hard?

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>>51431438
The Power of Christ Compels You!

>>51432189
>vampirebdsm.jpg

>>51432085
>Was that so hard?
Was it so hard to do it yourself instead of shitting on a thread to feel superior?

>>51432189
thank you based fertility god

>>51431965
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carmilla
ah yes the original lesbian vampire story which also created the modern vampire archetype

>>51432189
Well, the old Hunter's Handbook said you need to drive your stake in them, is this a revised edition?

>>51432292
what a fucking humiliating way to die.
thats how you know your neonate is a scrub

>>51432244
>Vampire Tied to the Bed
>"Fuck Her Harder!"
>"Its Not Working!"
>"You need to set it to vibrate!"
>Light shines through eyes and mouth and as she explodes into orgasm

>>51432063
I mean everyone knows that garlic can resurrect a mediocre meal

>>51431409
It's because hells come back for the eye socket.

What if I believe exclusively in the power of hygiene products to refresh and moisturize?

>>51432413
>underrated post

>>51432496
That might not be enough. But a defibrillator will certainly work.

>>51432063
That is actually a really interesting take on the concept. Continuing with this train of thought, wouldn't Buddhist idols be anathema to vampires as well, given that they represent true freedom from rebirth?

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>>51431409

>>51432413
kek, though obviously it's hard to tie every vampire weakness into a coherent whole. Classic vampires are pretty silly.

>>51432658
I must have read the original idea from some blog post defending the idea that crosses hurt vampires. It works if the narration assumes that Christianity is correct, but I think you can expand the concept by going more with a generally spiritual explanation.

The whole "you just have to believe really hard" is a bit too arbitrary/postmodern for the take on the myth.

>>51431409
Well I think its simply because undead are an abomination to the natural way of life, making them unholy so holy things will of course kill em as they restore the natural order.

>>51432762
>The whole "you just have to believe really hard" is a bit too arbitrary/postmodern for the take on the myth.
That reductionist attitude towards vampires was popularized by I Am Legend I think. There vampires were specifically weak against anything they believed on while living. Not that you'd tell from the movie since they made it about zombies instead and changed most the major plot points

>>51431868
But muh bible fanfiction.

>>51432865
As has been stated by someone else in this thread, it all depends on the setting really and I can understand that that would be true in high fantasy and classic vampire settings

>>51432189
that'd better be made out of silver and passed along across generations, anon

>>51433258
Well, I think silver is pretty resistant to both friction wear and moisture.

>>51433258
But that would Chaff!

>>51431570
Reduced mobility
Shit, think that Dracula movie where they have to move his coffin and some earth too; vampires can't move around much, and few people do turn into vampires, most are just food while a few are just enthralled.

Now consider this: Gods from various religions can make vsmpires, so each vampire is vulnerable to the god that cursed, while probably being grounded to an area where his own belief was the main belief

>>51433258
That gotta make for awkward conversations.
>"... passed down for generations by women of the family, and now it's up to you to..."
>"God, grandma, I think I'm gonna die of embarrassment before the vampire get the chance to attack"

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>>51433336
But it'd be so versatile!

>>51431832
>>51431855

Eh...they do and they don't.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gehinnom
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheol

Vampires are the ultimate earthly manifestation of corruption and vileness, the inversion of all holy rites and sacraments, risen undead fiends not resurrected by miracles but by sin and damnation, feed upon the mundane blood of mortal men and not the sanctified blood of Christ - or if you're of another religious persuasion, of the lifeblood of men, the waters within us, the gifts of our ancestors and lineage, they are takers of life, passers of disease and are banished and depowered by the radiant light of the Lord.

Holy symbols, symbols deemed by their very existence to represent divinity and sanctity, are anathema to these beings of utmost manifest evil. Vampires, in my head, are tantamount to physical demons, gifted with the power of true darkness. Vampires are all that is filthy, desecrated, gluttonous and vile. Dragons are like that, too, but mindless violence for violence's sake, they are wrathful and greedy, while maintaining a status of manifest evil.

>>51433757
Yes, but they are also manifestations of reason, intellect and taboo. They represent the forbidden practice of medieval medicine, same-sex relations and blood transfusions, all of which were forbidden in the medieval paradigm.

I prefer to think of them as a spiritual parasite, as much a part of nature as the wolf or hawk. They manifest in spiritual filth, much like flies are attracted to waste, and help break down that which lingers but refuses to decompose, like hopes which may never come to pass and dreams which may never be.

>>51433820
In the realm of shadow, the vampire provides an essential ecological function which allows civilization to exist and progress, for without deceit, there can be no civilization, for we all have different values and beliefs, and not everyone can be accommodated.

>>51433757
We may not give thanks to the wolf for keeping our fields from being overrun by elk and boars, from destroying our pastures and spreading disease from overpopulation, misbreeding and lethargic vegemite stupidity, but we should.

Just like we should give thanks to plagues and sickness for punishing us for living in filth and squalor, for cleansing the spiritual corruption which resides in our beings.

Is it not the christian faith who says this world is but a passing fancy?

>>51433836
So what, vampires exist to hunt supporters of X party?

And are not all creatures of myth made manifest by men's shadows, his belief in sin and his desire to sin? Are they really anything more than an outlet for our earthly desires made manifest in the spiritual realm?

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>>51433891
Starts with D and ends with a T
>You wouldn't believe who supports the other party

>>51433899
Nah, some of them are about how nature, or death, or diseases, etc... are scary.

And that's forgetting the creatures that aren't supposed to be malevolent.

>>51433820
Count Dracula is my favourite interpretation of the vampire - essentially an evil sorcerer possessed of Satanically-endowed immortality and unnatural powers, a rotten old evil dwelling in a rotten old place, a dominating force of darkness and insidious corruption.

However, I like notion of vampires as manifesting in spiritual filth, but it still sort of plays into my view of them, of sinners dying with evil in their hearts and rising in unnatural, satanic undeath to further sow sorrow and horror. But I do not think of them as natural in any way. They are things that should not be. They're an inversion of the thing they once were, a dark reflection of an upright person of faith. Any intellect or reason they may possess is of darkness and evil, all things no righteous man should know of.

>>51433999
If thing either is or it isn't.
There is no "should"

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>>51433920

>>51434018
That's what makes them what they are. By all rights, they aren't supposed to exist. A corpse should not leave its grave, walk, speak and mingle amongst the living. Only your chosen God and his Saints and Son should have the authority over the souls and body of humanity. A vampire is something outside this divine order.

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Has anyone seen Dracula 2000?
On the movie's lore vampirism happens because you have been privated from god's grace

>>51431638
Everybody is afraid of swords.

>>51434080
then explain jesus.

The bible used to have people living for 1000's of years, giants that roamed the lands, rains and rivers of blood, curses of locusts and all sorts of other supernatural events and creatures.

How is any of that "Not part of the plan?"

You are either omnipotent or your not, there is no middle ground.

Saying your "Cursed by the devil" is no different than saying you are "Cursed by god". It all happens according to divine will, nothing is by accident. If god creates a being that rises from the grave and feeds off the blood of mortals, then it all happens according to his will.

I for one, can't stand talking with someone whose god is two faced.

You have to hold yourself and your religion accountable for what your god says and does.

Basically, whenever god needs to do something that mortals can't understand, he uses the devil. That way when confronted by their ignorance, he can protect them from themselves, allowing them to continue to have faith until they are ready to accept the higher truth.

>>51434877
>>51434916
>>51434953
Because the Devil also exists, and actively works against humans and Gods' plans. He was the angel second only to God. God is also absolute divinity, humans are not, we in these bodies are the utmost mundanity. That's why God had to send angels of the lowest orders to speak to us, and why he had come down as Jesus to usher in a new covenant. The totality of the power of God appearing all at once? Even higher orders of angels would destroy a man entirely if he saw them. Imagine the sheer otherworldly force of God appearing at once. When God appeared to either Abraham or Moses (I forget exactly which figure), the people with the prophet asked him to make God go away, because his mere obscured presence was so terrifying. I, as a human, will not deign to to sum up just how it is exactly God works.

Vampires are not part of the natural plan or actions of God, they are directly Satanic in origin, they are bereft of God's touch as corrupt clay. In God's plan, they shouldn't exist and are in direct opposition by their very existence to God and his plan.

I'm not a believer at all, or a theologian in any sense, this is just me rationalizing my preferred idea of vampires into Christian mythology, which is what I tend to associate them with, and not unreasonably I think. I'm enamoured with the idea that God isn't necessarily omnipotent, just incredibly, incredibly powerful, to the point it would seem like absolute power from a mere human standpoint. Blasphemy, but there you go, stuff changes over time.

>>51435255
That's retarded. Its just deferring responsibility for your own deity. You're either omnipotent or your not. Either the devil is an instrument of gods divine wrath, or god isn't omnipotent, you can't have it both ways.

>>51436195
>what is worldbuilding

I'm trying to be creative here, my man. I didn't think this thread talking about vampires had to stick to real world fact.

>>51431859
Dracula is not the first instance of a vampire you mong.

>>51431409
If the cross represents the willingness to sacrifice oneself for the sake of others, as exemplified by a certain carpenter, then a lamb, bearing the same connotation, would work as well.

The idea of this sacrifice, you see, is anathema to the predatory vampire, which sees itself as reigning supreme above humanity and cannot fathom sacrificing its own existence for another.

What few know is that there are other ideas which are anathema to this creature.

Whichever martial gods or great devourers you call on, when you reveal a being of almighty power to the vampire, he, in his arrogance, cannot accept it. Every fish above a certain size believes itself to be the biggest, and the vampire is no exception. The very idea that he, the hunter, might become the hunted is incomprehensible to him.

Moreover, present to him the elephant if this does not succeed, for the elephant is the untouchable prey. Even the lion can to little to harm a bull elephant, and a hunter needs a special gun of the highest caliber to stand so much as a chance. That the prey might escape unscathed and leave him wounded is yet another concept that the vampire's existence cannot accept.

>>51431409
>vampires exist in setting
>God does not exist in setting
why?

Vampires are unholy and kept alive on Earth by unholy means. Obviously any kind of sanctified or blessed object will weaken their mortal tethers.

>holy water: pre-blessed, no faith required
>cross: not blessed, faith + focus required

>garlic, salt, rice grains, etc: vampires have a very sensitive palette and are prone to autism as the years pass

I like the idea that it repels them based on a sudden feeling of extreme religious guilt and horror. The cross causes one to think they barely qualify ad a person anymore, just a shell walking animated without a soul.
with buddhist icons, they experience the hell of never escaping the suffering of the world amplified tenfold. W other Jewish symbols, they can physically feel the loss of a kind of special covenant with God

>>51436195
The devil is the persecutor in the court of God. Motivated by jealousy for God's love of Man, he untiringly tests His creation for weaknesses of faith, so as to eventually make the case that he deserves the love much, much more than us. As such, yes, instrument of God, and one wielded with great skill by the only one able to string along the Great Betrayer. Read the bible again some time, it's remarkable what you can learn when you simply dig into the manual.

>>51436599
I Am Legend had completely biological vampires, where the religious paraphernalia was most likely vampires believing their own fiction or knowing they've fallen from grace hard.

Aside from IAL, Daybreakers, and Stake Land, what're other works with completely biological vampires?

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In my setting, I designed everything to flow in a way that makes sense.
A vampire is an undead being that is a spirit connected to dying person’s heart by a kinetic metaphysical bond.
The one method of killing a vampire is by ending that bond through abjuration, by banishing the spirit which is bound to a body that is not naturally theirs.
This is why simple blessings, or abjuration spells, to protect a home keeps a vampire out, they burn as they enter because their spirit is being pulled from their bodies, straining that bond.
Religious totems, of protective gods, typically act a small localized field of abjuration.
This repels and burns most vampires, as do the many blessed or sacred rivers.
A considerably powerful and well fed vampire can easily shrug off such things, as well as sunlight, for short periods of time.

Pic almost entirely unrelated.

>>51431526
That's for Werewolves. Vampires are however incredibly weak to fire. Direct sunlight might as well kill them, and even ambient sunlight damages them.

The various Vampire mythos are divided by clan lines. For example, only Vampires of the Lasambra bloodline can't be seen any reflection, even cameras or video. This also means they have no idea what they look like after their 'embrace' and need help keeping appearance.

In my setting, magic is powered by some form of sacrifice, and people who have True Faith effectively sacrifice their sanity for power, which manifests in "holy" effects.

I'm not trying to be a fedoralord, people can still have regular faith and it's fine, "True Faith" is specifically what you gain as you become ever more incapable of acknowledging any other interpretation of reality as possibly true.

>>51435255
>>51436195
>That's retarded
Agreed.

God is the GM.
The Devil is That Guy.
The GM knows that the Devil is going to start shit, even knows him so well that he knows exactly what shit he will do.
The GM has the power to keep That Guy out of his game.
But the GM wants to run his game with his DMPC angels and all his players, even That Guy.
So he plays, warning the other players not to listen to That Guy or let him bother them, when he knows they will.
He does this because, while no game > bad game is true, when your existence transcends all of eternity, you get desperate for some simulated social interaction.

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>>51432085
>Sweet, I learned something today. Was that so hard?

:^)

In my setting, vampires are aliens that reproduce by infecting other creatures with their cells, which gradually grow and displace the native cells, absorbing the host's memories and personality but replacing their instincts with vampiric ones. The process takes more than a thousand years, at the beginning of which you have something mostly resembling the original creature and at the end of which you have a monstrous mutated super-predator with only trace elements of the original host form. The different vampire clans are based on lineages of who's descended from who, bearing common traits in their "evolved" form, though each host body causes somewhat different mutations in the final being.

There's still magic and such, it's a sort of less technologically advanced shadowrunesque setting. Some of the vampires' weaknesses are based off biology, but others are based off magically enforced pacts and oaths a vampire clan has made in the past. Being repelled by holy objects or not being able to tread on holy ground would be one of those (maybe something like a vampire clan leader being captured by a church, then agreeing to what's basically a restraining order on him and his descendants in return for being freed), which creates a scenario where it's objects of a specific faith that repel them rather than just any holy object.

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>>51431409
Personally, I like the notion that there are multiple gods, and some gods reeeeaaaallly hate vampires, while other gods are meh, and then certain gods approve of vampires.

It would explain why vampires can't cross rivers/moving water in ancient folklore. Because rivers and shit are sacred to certain pagan gods. And why almost everyone was mummified in egypt, because only those who served the egyptian gods of death directly (like the priests and priestess) were permitted to have the honor of coming back from the dead.

It would also give you a valid excuse to create different subtypes of vampires. The nasty ghoulish Nosferatu? Cursed or converted by a bloodline originating with a cursed vampire. Super sexy charming modern day stereotype vampire? A reward by a certain deity of death, or converted by a bloodline originating with a deity of death.

It even works with athiests. Just find someone who has a powerful enough affinity with the dead, or a necromancer or voodoo practitioner, work with them to perform the proper rituals, and then slit your own throat open from ear to ear. Your own death would be the human sacrifice powerful enough to ensure you rise as a vampire, and not a zombie or ghoul.

>>51431730
Google "Aswang"

Enjoy your nightmares.

>>51431838
I always saw Lucifer as the crazy ex who wouldn't leave God alone. Like man, go on one teeny tiny little vacation and you come back to accusations that you've abandoned your family and find yourself locked out of your own home.

Hell is basically where all the batshit insane angels who have restraining orders against them congregate.

>>51432189
LMAO, there has never been a better reason to burn in Hell for all eternity!

>>51440561
I like this, totally gonna steal it.

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>>51431639
>implying the eternal kanglo wouldn't gain strength from anti Nazis

>>51440932
>I like this, totally gonna steal it.
My precious Original Content! No!
Heh
At this rate, by the time I actually get my setting to a unifed, presentable state for /tg/ to tear apart, it's gonna all be old news.

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>>51441083
Yeah, I know that feel, lol.

Of course, the worst one is when you spend ages working on something really neat, only to discover that someone else already thought of it. AND they did it better.

Just, mfw every time.

>>51441123
I had that reponse when I had this whole tunic system planned for my dwarves.
Then anon posts shit better than I dreamed.
First Reaction: awwww...
Second Reaction: Yoink!

Grain to Gold was the exact opposite reaction.
Just a thankful sigh that most of the heavy lifting was done already.

>>51441311
Runic, not tunic.
As in cool ass magic runes.

How about this: Jesus Christ is actually the Son of God and vampires get triggered by his symbol

>>51431409
How about this: Vampires are weak to crucifixes and poisoned by communion wine because those represent blood willingly shed for another, being opposed to the vampire's need to take blood for themselves.

Holy water is a distraction known to do nothing. We eagerly await researchers willing to experimenting with the application of communion bread to vampires.

>>51431570
Vampires are satanist-like contrarians who only exist in the vicinity of the religion they're opposed to.

>>51441387
I fucking love Runes.

>>51432955
Judas is a better first vampire anyway.

>>51441840
>vampires didn't exist BC
No.

>>51441888
Oh, sure, first you want BC vampires, but then it's vampire dinosaurs, and then they have to be psionic cyborg vampire dinosaurs fighting aliens. YOU DON'T FOOL ME, I KNOW WHERE THIS IS GOING!

>>51434583
I like this. It sounds workable. Like, the "sin" isnt contract vampirism, but actually drinking the blood. Until you suck someone's blood you're just a dude with cravings. Afterwards you're a monster.

It's all lies spread by religious organizations to convert stupid peasants to worship their impotent idols.

>>51431462
>>51431570
Now you have an order of hermetic vampire hunters. They know there is one true god that is seen across the world but translated in different, contradictory ways.
They have their best wizards on the task of refining their religion so they can kill vampires harder than anyone else.

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>>51432063
I really like this post!

>>51432413
I'd tie the garlic thing into more of a purification deal, similar to running water. Garlic is usually seen as something that wards of sickness, death being the greatest sickness of all.

I like the idea that vampires or other powerful undead are really hardcore minmaxers. In order to cheat the system and live forever with awesome power they have to work through all these fucked up loopholes until their lives are a janky mess of bizarre restrictions.

>>51439162
>Aside from IAL, Daybreakers, and Stake Land, what're other works with completely biological vampires?

Aside from the Blood God shit in the first one, all the vampires in the Blade film and TV series are presented in pretty scientific terms (there's a scene in the TV show where a new vampire is turned via syringe than straight up biting, with the head vampire saying something along the lines of "we're not savages" and the director commentary was that they were deliberately trying to de-supernatural them).

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What is the best example of someone using a religious item against a vampire and why is it Father Callahan fending off Barlow in 'Salem's Lot only for his faith to waver and the crucifix to fail him when the vampire challenges him to put it away and he's too afraid to?

>>51443972
I really like that book, and I have to say, the fact the crucifix only works off the wielder's faith in its protection is remarkably sensible. I still really like the idea of unspeakable evils remaining in a place, long after the perpetrator's death.

>>51443972
Lesson learned: When you're facing anything demonic - and if you're warding it off with a crucifix, it's probably demonic - DON'T LISTEN TO IT. This should be Exorcism 101. The likely outcome of entertaining any train of thought from that source is probably bad. Ignore it, say "Frak this, my faith is a shield proof against your blandishment", and tell the beast to begone.

>>51431838
>>51440837
From what I understand about Jewish folklore (which admittedly isn't much) Lucifer was cast out of Heaven because he saw the flaws in humanity and refused to go along with a plan that revolved around us and our flaws.

>>51444243

Kinda similar to Islamic version.

>>51444052
>When you're facing anything demonic - and if you're warding it off with a crucifix, it's probably demonic - DON'T LISTEN TO IT.
Sound advice.
To the point where I wouldn't even consider it metagaming.

Btw, vampire lore unique to the setting is the best way to trip up metagamers.

>>51444243
...but there is no Lucifer figure in Judaism because they don't go off the new testament. Old testament Satan is a loyal angel of God who basically does his dirty work and tests the faith of his followers. It's only when the new testament comes out that he's presented as an evil anti-God figure (much like Ahriman is presented in Zoroastrianism, which was really big at the time).

>>51447319
Oh, my bad. Again, I don't know too much about Judaism.