how to deal with an evil party member in dnd

>>51424155
Don't let him steal from group members unless he wants to get his ass kicked by all of them collectively.

LE is usually not a problem in campaigns, NE somewhat moreso. CN and CE are the ones you have to watch out for.

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Let me give you some useful advice as DM.

NEVER allow evil characters in a party. Never run campaigns for evil parties. Your friend is a faggot. Tell him to quit being a faggot or else don't include him in the game.

That is all.

>>51424155
If he plays an evil character let his evilness be a flaw if another player notices him stealing then let pvp happen. Paladins notice his evil, any decent villager be wary for them. In essence punish him for being evil.

Tell the group as a whole that they can hand you notes for your eyes only. Then if he hands you a note while they're sleeping or whatever saying he wants to steal something, wait until a rest period then roll a d100 which can decide (you pick the odds) if one of the party catches him in the act. If they catch him you tell the other players like "you wake up to a noise in your room and see edgelord rummaging through your bag"

just be clear with him that it's a team game and if he's interested in actually roleplaying a bit of a scumbag that's cool but there's no point in actively conspiring to fuck with the party in general. As long as he's not literally backstabbing people or ruining the game itself, a bit of screwing around and stealing from them could make for some interesting situations. Especially when he has the item some dude was suddenly missing and that comes to light

The players are a party. This involves cooperation. I can't see any reason why you should let him do that.
Evil characters can work but only with heavy restrictions and a solid ground as for why they are in the party in the first place. Allies of circumstances, bloodthirsty mercenary, prisoner, things like that.

>>51424155
DnD is a team-based game. You're essentially asking how to deal with someone who doesn't want to be a team player. The answer is, you don't. Tell him to go play Skyrim or some other single-player videogame where being an immature shit isn't going to ruin the fun of other people who actually exist in the real world.

Also tell him to read up on what a "That Guy" is, because he sure as fuck sounds like one.

I play a lot of Lawful Evil. Someone who's fiercely loyal and even covetous of his beloved friends and companions, obeys tradition where it suits him but is also ruthlessly ambitious and careful of potential rivals.

He'll rise to the top of the world with his bros, or see it burn.

>>51424155
Tell him to fuck off. Evil party members can work, but only if they're not petty little shits that start shit within the party.

>>51424177
Ebin :^)

Have an upboat

>>51424155
>He already asked me if he could steal from group members
Not that. That's how. Every instance I've found of evil party members that worked was where they only care about themselves and their select group of friends, and are ruthless and sadistic to other outside their own interests.

>>51424155
Here's what I would do, OP

I would ask my players if they would be okay with PvP and that sort of shitty inter-party conflict and based on their reply, I will accept that guy's evil character.

If my group is good, generally they will say "No thanks" and I would shoot that character idea down.

Then I would let the party have a fair chance of catching the thieving shit... and let them sort the character out.

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>>51424212

All right thanks guys i think i'm gonna talk with him about it and see if we can find something to make everyone happy

>>51424155
I think you are mixing up terms here. Stealing is just petty, it's not inherently evil. Evil would be, to steal a wand of flight, if thats the only escape plan for the warrior for example.

Talk to your player what he wants to achieve with the theft. Sometimes it's just to show dominance or try stuff out, he can't or wouldn't do in real life. I have seen enough people grow out of it after doing it once or twice without an ingame battle.

With that said, I think lawfull evil characters are interesting. You still have a goal, marry the prince, save your country, that kind of things, but you are willing to do anything to achieve it. And influencing a group of insanely powerfull warriors might just be one way to achieve your goals. Stealing from them does not help you on your path.

I found, that characters and players who don't have a motivation themself other than "I'd like to make my character do cool things" are the easiest to influence ;-)

>>51424267
>Evil party members can work, but only if they're not petty little shits that start shit within the party.
It's been said multiple times, but this says it most concisely.

The only thing I have to add is that if you are playing a highly lethal game where generating multiple characters per session is expected, then making one a dick that will inevitably get curbstomped by the party is much less of a problem.
I made an annoying gnome rogue once to blow off some steam. The party quickly sent him to his death Goblin Grenade style.
I had fun being annoying.
Everyone had fun killing him.
Then I made a better character.

>>51424155
Make it perfectly clear for him that group interests benefits him too. Evil is all about egiosm and self-serving, and well enlightened Evil is almost indistinguishable from Good in actions if not in motivations.

Alright, OP got the message and talks to that guy.
Now, does anyone have any that guy stories where the that guy wanted to screw the party over?

>>51425011
One of my regular players originally wanted to screw the party over in the first game that we played with him...

I am glad the GM shot him down, then

I talked to him just now (that it's a team based game and yada yada yada) and he was really understanding so he won't start shit within the group.

I figure he really wants to act as someone else so i'm gonna give him opportunities to develop his Charakter and background and let him interact with a ton of nps's hopefully that will float his boat.

>>51424991
>>Evil party members can work, but only if they're not petty little shits that start shit within the party.
If they're smart about it ahty can do that too. I onche played with a guy who'se evil character tried to prostitute our drunk teammate to criminalas for information. It worked and gave us a new way to strike at the bad guys. His victim didn't remember shit and her player was decent enough to not metagame.

It also helped that by that time we blew up a buss full of childern (they were unwittingly changed into a weapon, though), carpet-bombed a village with a nampalm (to prevent them spreading deadly dicease) and let one of our enemies (a total bitch, but still) be captured by space robot Dr.Mengele, as part of our operations, so our collective moral compass wasn't that well to begin with.

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>>51425102
We had a fellow PC have get forced into a private "conversation" with the villain. They talked privately in the other room so we wouldn't hear and what not.

Fast forward several sessions of hunting the villain later and right when we go to fight him, the PC turned on us.

Now that guy plays a new character and his original PC is now the villain's right hand man. It can be done pretty well sometimes.

>>51424155
Well.
"As you can easily see, all the other members of the group are formidable in their own right. If you steal from them and is found out, you're gonna have a bad time. x on one is always bad business."

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>>51425105
>I talked to him just now and he was really understanding so he won't start shit within the group.
Another problem solved with: Communication

>>51425109
>If they're smart about it, they can be petty little shits that start shit within the party and still have it work
Yeah, technically true.
It's also possible that an anon could juggle chainsaws.
But I'd still prefer they not attempt it at my game.

>>51425160
Yeah, but not when the players wants to retain control of his traitorous character and initiate PVP.

PvP a shit

>>51424177

>evil babies are bad and I am so mature unlike you babies

Grow up kid.

The problem isn't evil characters, the problem is they have no loyalty to the party, an evil character can be very fun to play though

>LG knight
>CE rogue
>childhood friends, the knight saved the rogues life
>rogue will to anything for his knight friend
>poisons his opponents in a tournament to weaken them and guarantee the knights victory victory
>murders a rival of the knight to ensure his promotion in the order
>mugs and beats any who have ever insulted the knight
>keeps it hidden from his friend because he knows it will break his heart but keeps doing it to see him happy

>>51425266
That rogue is probably either not evil or not chaotic. Undying selfless loyalty to someone who'se not your loved one or a family member is not a CE thing.

>>51425281
willing to kill and harm others for emotional reasons is pretty CE

>some lord speaks poorly of the knights less than noble birth
>later rogue finds him walking the streets at night
>leaves him with several stab wounds and broken bones in the gutter

seems pretty evil to me

>>51425281
where did he say it was selfless? having a friendthat cares for you and will save you in need is a huge feel-good factor in life. trying to keep those people happy is just a sighn of intelligence beyond "ooh....shiny" *stabs partymembers in their sleep*

>>51424155
Ask him if he's okay with the other players killing him. If he's not, then tell him stealing from the other players is stupid.

>>51425353
This guy is right you know?

>>51425384
killing innocents knowingly is not a good or even neutral act, its evil, no matter the reason.

>>51424177
>NEVER allow evil characters in a party.
Sounds like you don't know how to have fun.

>>51424155
The problem isn't him being evil or openly contradicting another character but the player trying to be a dickass theif to his party?
Tell him that shit won't fly.
Have the magic items be bound to the other PCs and unusable by anyone but them as long as they live.
Let someone/everyone else get their hands on a bag of holding to prevent his attempts to steal.

Evil characters can be fun if played right.
There's a thread about it right now that depicts Chaotic Evil done right.
>>51420033

If you want to know what Neutral evil is just read a Xianxia novel.

Lawfull evil is just straight up mafioso and corrupt officials + mastermind merchants.

>>51425406
There is a way to do it right, and a way to fuck it up, and OP's case is a fuck up.

>>51424155
Tell him NO
Disruptible PCs are a nono

>>51425398
I agree

>>51424155
Are the other players ok with a dude in the group trying to backstab them at every moment without them knowing shit?

I played once an LE in a mostly Good group
It was ok, I never went against my party's wishes
I tortured enemies but the moment the party said that was ok for them I stopped
I lied about my goals and other stuff but that never affected them
I shared whatever I got during the missions but the stuff that I got outside missions I only gave them like 50% (while I kept for myself the other 50%)
This didn't stop the LG Paladin (Punisher style) to suspect about me literally at every moment since the begining. That happens when you inform of your alignment and people can't differenciate between OOG knowledge and IG knowledge

At the end it was the LN character who betrayed the party and became a vampire

>>51425724
>That wasn't ok I stopped*

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>>51424155
>a player in a new Game some friends and me are gonna start wants to play an essentialy evil character.
Tell him that's great, now what's your second idea?
Try playing without Alignments at all. It has almost no mechanical effect in 5e anyway, even the Evil/Good Spells simply hedge out/affect monster classifications like Fey or Undead, rather than alignments.

Alignments are still in D&D because it's one of the few original ideas Gary and company came up with decades ago. Not a very good one, but original.

The guy wanting to play Evil wants to amuse himself at every else's expense.

>>51424155
The same way you deal with every other character, make actions have consequences.

>>51424155
evil character here, honestly him wanting to do that is just lazy. if youre playing evil AND with a party of good characters, the general idea is that your friends might think youre a son of a bitch but theyl still at least want to keep hanging with you, i only pickpocket quest related items from my party just so i can have direct control of key moments and play the long cons that evil characters should be after

>>51425281
EVIL PEOPLE CAN NOT HAVE FRIENDS

>>51425398
>its evil, no matter the reason

You don't understand the alignment system, then.

"Evil" isn't "villainous" or something like that. As far as the D&D alignment system is concerned, "evil" is basically "selfish".

An "evil" character is more concerned with themselves and accomplishing their own goals than helping the people around them. An "evil" character may work with a group without an issue, but they do so because they believe said group help them accomplish their own goals.

>>51427047
This.

"Good" and "evil" are actually "altruism" and "selfishness".

You could argue that the character described in >>51425266 isn't Chaotic Evil at all, and is actually Lawful Good.

Lawful doesn't have to literally mean "committed to following laws", it means that you have some moral/ethical/religious/etc code you abide by.

So in this case, the rogue is more worried about the well being and success of his friend (regardless of his methods of achieving this), which is "good" and his insistence on preserving their friendship and upholding it at all costs is "Lawful".

>>51425281
>Undying selfless loyalty to someone who'se not your loved one or a family member is not a CE thing.
So if I literally murderraped every baby in the village because my girlfriend said she didn't like babies and I'm slavishly devoted to her, I wouldn't be chaotic evil?

>>51427332
>I wouldn't be chaotic evil?

No, you'd just be an obnoxious That Guy.

>>51424155

>He already asked if he could steal from group members

Kick him out of your game. This already means that the guy can't play an evil character for shit. Nobody would want to adventure with someone they can't trust, and this already means he can't play an evil character who plays nice with the group.

>>51427378
>Kick him out of your game.
Or just tell him that he can't play an evil character.

>>51427179
So basically lawful is autism and chaotic is stupid?

>>51424177
This meme needs to die. Evil characters might be a little harder to RP, but no more challenging than dealing with LG or CN types. Blanket banning of evil alignments is the no fun zone. Sure OP's example is the wrong way to play an evil character, but just because his retard friend couldn't do it doesn't mean everybody shouldn't be allowed to try. After all there's shit ways to play every alignment and it sounds like OP's friend is just a shit player.

>>51427350
Assume an NPC is found lounging in a burnt out village eating a baby. When asked why all the babies are dead and the villagers left alive but their hands and tongues cut out, he tells you that his girlfriend said one of the waitresses in the inn spilled a drink on her and wasn't able to replace her expensive dress so he made sure they couldn't be mean again.

What place on the alignment axis would you put this fine fellow on?

>>51425406

Why would you include a guy who is going to fuck you over and stab you in the back? Playing an Evil character in a non-Evil party is hoisting a sign over your head that says "I AM ANTI-SOCIAL."

>>51425011

There's always one, but it never really works. I'm honestly bewildered by how /tg/ has so many stories of 'master plans', because all PvP I've ever seen ended with the rest of the party curbstomping the other player.

I mean, it's just numbers man. Three against one.

>>51424886
To your first point, I'd say that stealing to survive is neutral, whereas stealing simply for the sake of stealing (i.e. what I believe OP's player is trying to do) would be evil.

>>51427451
Chaotic Evil

>>51427434
No.

A good breakdown of the alignment system:

Lawful Good
>Conformity/Tradition and Benevolence.

Neutral Good
>Benevolence and Universalism

Chaotic Good
>Universalism and Self-Direction

Chaotic Neutral
>Self-Direction and Stimulation

Chaotic Evil
>Hedonism

Neutral Evil
>Achievement and Power

>Lawful Evil
Power and Security

>Lawful Neutral
Security and Conformity/Tradition

>True Neutral
Any values, whether incongruent or not, can serve as motivations for True Neutrals. True Neutrality can indicate no strong preference for a set of motivations (i.e., most motivations are of equal strength) or a tendency to be motivated by values that are normally incongruent (such as Benevolence and Power or Security and Self-Direction).

>>51427497
And yet he did it all for the love of his girlfriend, who he loves unconditionally and would (and has) killed people so he can toss their corpse over a puddle so she doesn't have to get her feet wet?

Would such a person doing selfless if insane and cruel and petty acts for his beloved be considered anything BUT chaotic evil?

>>51427451
Maybe lawful neutral.

Hard to say, because a character isn't defined by one single event.

But you could argue that the character is trying to uphold tradition and philogyny, while standing by their friend.

But to truly determine it, you'd need to know more about the character. They're "human" (quotes because in a fictional setting, they might actually be demi-human or something else entirely) and as a result irrational and flawed. We'd have to see how this characters acts day-to-day and in a lot more situations.

>>51427466
Naw dawg, the paladin turning blackguard, swiping the deck of many things and then drawing 10 beneficial cards always works out! No it doesn't the 11th card is always instant death and this also never actually happened.

>>51427507
Chaotic evil can be just a freedom fighter who goes too far and becomes a terrorist. Or an alchemists break in every law their is to make a panacea and become world famous for making the ultimate healing mechanism while also curing the genetic disease that affects him and his family. Slave rebellion against the evil empire that turns into a war of complete extermination to destroy their masters forever, children, history and all.

This shit ain't hard yo.

>>51427434
Nah, think of it more as

Lawful = righteous
Chaotic = self-indulgent

>>51427637

Why would you party with someone like that?

Think about it. It's actually really hard to be Evil. You have to be a vicious sociopath, a mass-murderer, a follower of institutionalized evil, or a worshipper of an evil god. Being selfish and or mercenary isn't being 'evil'.

Like, an evil guy of any worth RADIATES evil. It's like hiring a psychopath to join your team. Why?

>>51427434
I always treat is as more along the lines of lawful alignments living by a code (even an unwritten one) and chaotic alignments living by their whim.

>>51427637
>This shit ain't hard yo.
Not disagreeing. But so many people misunderstand the alignment system. A good amount of people see it as:

>Chaotic = literal chaos and the antithesis of following rules
>Lawful = Literally abiding and upholding laws.
>Good = Heroic archetype
>Evil = mustache twirling villain

None of the above are true.

>>51427659
You're right. Our collective myth is definitely completely devoid of stories of enemies joining forces to defeat a greater evil.

>>51427659
>It's actually really hard to be Evil.
>You have to be a vicious sociopath

You literally do not. Its pretty easy to be an evil character and not be a mass murder. Or even a dick at all.

>>51427680

Yes, but temporarily. You won't trust someone like that to watch your back. Even then, it's not good for party cohesion: You'd prefer to have anyone else in your group.

Besides, it's simply not a good party dynamic. We have a Paladin, a good-aligned Ranger, a Cleric, and we have the evil Necromancer whose power comes from tormenting the souls he's trapped. One of these is not like the other.

Face it, unless the whole party's Evil, you just want to be contrarian.

>>51427659
>It's actually really hard to be Evil. You have to be a vicious sociopath, a mass-murderer, a follower of institutionalized evil, or a worshipper of an evil god.

Not only do you completely misunderstand "alignment", you apparently only play generic archetypes.

Think outside the box sometimes, anon. Its not even hard.

>>51427686
The title of the thread includes "In D&D." An evil character in most D&D games eventually will radiate evil.

You know what also radiates evil? Skeletons. You're talking about someone that has the general miasma of a skeleton at all times. Most adventuring parties won't include a skeleton, at least intentionally starting out; Why would you start with someone that has the same mental outlook and soul aura?

>>51427701
>Besides, it's simply not a good party dynamic. We have a Rogue, a neutral-aligned Ranger, a Druid, and we have the lawful stupid Paladin who sees it as his job to be the fun police. One of these is not like the other.

>>51427730
>An evil character in most D&D games eventually will radiate evil.

This is objectively wrong.

See: >>51427677

"Evil" does not mean "Eeeeeevil". It means your character is self-involved and cares about his/her own goals over anyone else's.

>>51427743

D&D is designed for Good or Neutral parties. Modules are written with the assumption that the characters are Good or at least Neutral. Unless you're playing Way of the Wicked (a specifically-designed evil campaign) or Hell's Vengeance, shit doesn't work.

>>51427730
>You know what also radiates evil? Skeletons.

So a mage summoning a skeleton to help him combat his opponents is inherently evil? The fuck? That's not a determinate of alignment in any way what so ever.

Skeletons have no alignment of their own. They are just mindless entities that follow the orders of whoever summons them.

>>51427767
>D&D is designed for Good or Neutral parties

Factually wrong. D&D is designed as a TEAM game. Alignment is irrelevant.

>>51427773

Using Necromancy to create or summon Undead is an Evil act, by RAW. It's objectively evil, like channeling Negative energy.

>>51427773
On the other hand a mage who summons angels and commands them to fly into a battle they have no chance of winning is 100% a paragon of morality.

>>51427745
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/d/detect-evil

A creature of 5th level who is aligned will pick up an aura of that alignment.

That means that an evil character of any relative strength is going to wind up with a spooky evil aura.

>>51427791
>Using Necromancy to create or summon Undead is an Evil act
>It's objectively evil

Except for the whole part where its not.

One, it depends on the setting.

Two, its possible to have a "good" necromancer.

Three, stop thinking so black and white. Not every character needs to be some silly trope.

>>51427803
Does the mage know that the angels have no chance of winning? If not, then its a moot point.

>>51427815

Again, by RAW using Necromancy is an evil act. So you can be a good Necromancer, if you don't actually channel negative energy or deal with the undead apart from destroying them.

>>51427807
>That means that an evil character of any relative strength is going to wind up with a spooky evil aura.

Not necessarily. For all you know, that "aura" is just color coded or something.

An "evil aura" in no way implies that it offers a feeling of discomfort or anything like that.

Its up to the individual DM to determine what that actually means.

>>51427859

Grasping at straws here.

>>51427815
>Except for the whole part where its not.
He's been talking about dnd the whole time and it is. It's not up to discussion or interpretation, because while alignments are stupid they are also an important part of the game.

>>51427847
So casting Speak With Dead to aid in finding the location of an item is inherently evil? Regardless of motivation? Just because its a necromantic spell? And any character who cast that should be switched to an evil alignment?

That's not how that works, anon.

>>51427877
Stop trying to bring moral ambiguity into a game where Detect Evil exists. You can houserule it anyhow you wish but it's very unlikely your interpretation is the original intent

>>51427900
>into a game where Detect Evil exists.

And the rulebook also says that good Necromancers exist. So the whole " b-b-but RAW" argument is moot. The book contradicts itself.

>>51427824
Yes, he's sending them to their deaths to allow him time to escape. But as we've established summoning undead is objectively evil so summoning angels must be objectively good.

>>51427924
>But as we've established summoning undead is objectively evil

Except, you know, its not. See: >>51427877 and >>51427773

>>51427900
Stop trying to bring your idiotic misunderstanding of alignment into this conversation. Detect Evil and moral ambiguity can exist in the same setting as long as you don't take a "HURR DURR TEH EBIL MEANS MURDERING PSYCHOPATH!!!" stance on things. If you had a picture of alignment that's more nuanced than a 2 year old's you could see that.

>>51427807
Yeah, but any evil character worth his salt would cast protection from evil a few dozen times and his aura would shine as bright and good as the paladin's.

>>51427047
>>51427179
but he's self-indulging himself by commiting selfish evil acts in the name of his friend, that's pretty CE

>>51424155
Explain it to him like this: "You don't shit where you eat. That's not evil, it's dumb. Do you really want to risk antagonizing the armed people who outnumber you while you are sleeping?"

>>51427938
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/a/animate-dead

>School: Necromancy [evil]
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/animateDead.htm
>School: Necromancy [evil]

In both 3.5 and Pathfinder, animating the undead is an evil spell, and casting the spell counts as an evil act. Good-aligned Clerics and other divine casters cannot even get access to the spell, and casting the spell is a good way for a Paladin to fall.

In 5e D&D you might have a leg to stand on, but most of the arguments in this thread have been about 3.pf. And in previous editions, Animate Dead is even more blatantly evil, explaining that filling the soulstuff with pure negative energy is a lot like dirty radiation.

I.E. Yes, Animate Dead is a fucking evil act. Get over it.

>>51428040
Is he though? Never did you initially say that the rogue enjoys doing said acts, just that the rogue does them.

If he is doing it for his own amusement, then that's not what you described at all.

>>51427986
Alignment isn't morality anon. Whether something is actually "good" or "bad" means diddly shit because some things are inherently Good or Evil within the context of DnD.

>>51428062
So again, see: >>51427877

By casting Speak With The Dead, you instantly become a mustache twirling villain? It's necromancy. That's an "inherently evil act". Regardless of the reason for doing so.

By your logic, anyone who does this should have their alignment instantly changed to evil.

>>51428102
>you instantly become a mustache twirling villain?
"Evil" on DnD isn't equivalent to real-world "evil". Neither is "good". I don't know if you've went this whole discussion thinking it was about objective morality

>>51428134
You realize that "real-world evil" is a moral thing, right? "Evil" is relative.

>>51428197
Yes anon that is why it is not equivalent to a world where Good and Evil objectively exist

>>51428221
>equivalent to a world where Good and Evil objectively exist

Except, in D&D, there is no such thing as objective good or objective evil.

Do you think any "villain" character says, "Woah, I'm doing such EVIL things right now!"

No. In their mind, they're the hero and the anyone trying to stop them are the villains. Just like real life, its relative.

If you don't realize this, then you're not a terribly creative person.

>>51428270
DnD Evil objectively exists. It is not the same thing as actually being "evil" (yes anon, I KNOW good and evil are subjective, but I'm talking about DnD). Evil acts may be arguably good (in one of its many real world, non-dnd, subjective interpretations), but they never will be Good. You can't draw parallels between them to any large extent because they are not the same thing.

>>51428318
So, again, casting Speak With Dead, regardless of motivation, should instantly turn a character's alignment to evil, shouldn't it? Since its, going by RAW, an evil act.

>>51428318
>good and evil are subject, I know
>but they're totally objective

Umm... anon, how can they be subjective and objective at the same time?

>>51428397
No one is arguing it "always" should do it "instantly", that's just a strawman you pulled out of your ass somewhere in the thread. But it is an objectively Evil (notice the capital E to distinguish it from real world evil WHICH I KNOW IS SUBJECTIVE FOR CHRIST'S SAKE)
>>51428449
It is objective within the fictional world of DnD where Good and Evil have nothing to do with the real world concepts of "good" and "evil".

>>51428397
>Since its, going by RAW, an evil act.
Absolutely, unequivocally false.

>evil character wants to pickpocket his allies
>everything has consequences, anon
>instead the thread devolves to "kick the guy out" instead of making him learn his lesson

>>51428397
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/speak-with-dead

>Necromancy [language-dependant]

>Not Necromancy [Evil]

Literally two seconds of research blows you the fuck out.

>>51428573
>>Necromancy [language-dependant]
>>Not Necromancy [Evil]

Oh, so evil ISN'T black or white in D&D. Got it. Thanks for proving me right.

>>51428556
This is not a lesson that needs to be taught in play, but before.

Stealing from teammates in D&D has never, not even once, in the history of the entire game, provided a richer or more enjoyable experience.
It *always* devolves into "how can I fuck up this little shit for messing with me without breaking character too much", and suddenly the entire game revolves around everyone uncomfortably trying to get rid off a PC.

It's an unwanted, unneeded distraction. Bitch rogues are the equivalent of that one shitty mosquito that prevents you from sleeping with its whiny noise.

>>51428855
The school of Necromancy isn't evil per se, you dunce.

>>51428953
B-But if you use any of the spells in said school, you're performing evil acts, because "Muh negative energy!" So your not-evil Necromancer is doing nothing but evil actions.

>>51424177
>The rectangle of snooze.

Not knowing LG & LN are the real edgelord, badass aligns.

>>51424212
>>51424839
Autists leave. I bet your roll for your players too.

>>51425311
>seems pretty evil to me
it is not evil, it is personal vengeance. This is not part of the alignment system. Chaotic Evil means doing evil things for the lulz, and nothing more.

>>51429093
>Chaotic Evil means doing evil things for the lulz
This is factually wrong.

"Chaotic Evil" means that your character is only concerned with doing stuff that further's his/her own goals and couldn't give a shit about anyone else and doesn't follow any personal code.

>>51429092
> actually explaining how teambased roleplaying games can be played so that everyone is enjoying it == Autists
great and clear deduction

>>51429122
>"Chaotic Evil" means that your character is only concerned with doing stuff that further's his/her own goals and couldn't give a shit about anyone else and doesn't follow any personal code.
where is the difference to Chaotic Neutral in that case?

>>51425281
Are you serious? Evil people can have friends or loved ones. Being selfish doesn't mean you care literally only about yourself, you just put your friends and family as apart of your sense of self.
>>51429093
>Chaotic Evil means doing evil things for the lulz,
This is wrong and you're a dummy for thinking it.

>>51428556

The logical consequence of stealing from your party members is getting stabbed.

Why would you work with someone who steals from you? If a guy regularly steals from you, would you trust him with your life, or kick him to the curb?

>>51429152
The CN character gets to feel bad about some of it.

>>51429152

> where is the difference to Chaotic Neutral in that case?

He's deliberately obfuscating the issue. Chaotic Evil means you're violent and destructive. Chaotic Neutral means you're guided by your whims, and a supreme individualist.

The roving swordsman who lives by his wits and travels seeking adventure, beholden to no-one, is Chaotic Neutral.

A ravager who leaves burnt-out villages in his wake is Chaotic Evil.

>>51429152
A chaotic evil character may have some long term goal that they're working toward, so their actions are dictated by furthering that, irrelevant of how it may or may not impact those around him/her.

A chaotic neutral character focuses more on the here and now. They are more about instantaneous gratification and less about changing the status quo for themselves.

If anything "being a dick for the lulz" is more chaotic neutral than chaotic evil.

>>51429252
>Chaotic Evil means you're violent and destructive
No where in the alignment description are either of these things even hinted at. Stop thinking so one dimensional. Alignment isn't a binary thing.

>>51429285

> A chaotic evil character does whatever his greed, hatred, and lust for destruction drive him to do. He is hot-tempered, vicious, arbitrarily violent, and unpredictable. If he is simply out for whatever he can get, he is ruthless and brutal. If he is committed to the spread of evil and chaos, he is even worse. Thankfully, his plans are haphazard, and any groups he joins or forms are poorly organized. Typically, chaotic evil people can be made to work together only by force, and their leader lasts only as long as he can thwart attempts to topple or assassinate him.

> Chaotic evil is sometimes called "demonic" because demons are the epitome of chaotic evil.

> Chaotic evil beings believe their alignment is the best because it combines self-interest and pure freedom.

> Chaotic evil is the most dangerous alignment because it represents the destruction not only of beauty and life but also of the order on which beauty and life depend.

That's the description.

>>51429152
A CG would try to steal from a neutral sleeping man as peacefully as possible so to not force an engagement
A CN would keep his blade out if it came to it but try to avoid it as well. He would fight where the CG would duck and run.
A CE would kill the man as dead men tell no tales and spoil no plans. He has a completely legitimate reason, especially if his task is important like the guy is carrying the super macguffin but he still took the easy, selfish path rather than the harder one that hurt less people.

Can someone explain why negative energy is so bad? Positive energy kills dudes just the same. Plane of positive energy is as inhospitable as the plane of negative energy. Why is it that its called negative its so awful?

>>51429252
>A ravager who leaves burnt-out villages in his wake is Chaotic Evil

Not necessarily. It depends on his motivation for ruining said villages. Is he doing it because of some religious belief or some personal code (maybe he's trying to destroy believers of a specific religion)? Then he's definitely not chaotic. He'd be lawful.

Are the inhabitants of his town people he believes are evil and he's trying to better the world for said religious teachings? Then he'd be of good alignment, because, in his own mind, he's being selfless and helping further the teachings of the church, regardless of whether his teachings reflect reality.

>>51429389

Because you're basically unleashing death energy into the world. You're helping to kill the world a little at a time.

The best analogy are the forces of Oblivion from World of Darkness/Exalted. You're blighting the world. Killing someone with negative energy is worst that incinerating him with a fireball or a sword through the guts, because at least those are clean deaths.

>>51429359
>alignments = one specific thing and I only play archetypes

You aren't terribly creative, are you?

>>51424212

That line of argument just means that we should ban ALL Chaotic Alignments, not the evil ones.

>>51429416

The followers of, say, Rovaug, are universally Chaotic and Evil. You can have a personal code or a religious belief and be Chaotic.

There are gods who are specifically Chaotic with Chaotic followers.

>>51429452
>You can have a personal code or a religious belief and be Chaotic.
If you have a personal code/religious code and actually stand by it, then its impossible to be chaotic. That's literally the definition of "Lawful".

>>51424177

I'm more destructive when I play as ANY Chaotic.

>>51429451

Except Chaotic doesn't mean 'evil' and Chaotic doesn't mean 'random'. Robin Hood is Chaotic Good or Chaotic Neutral, depending on his depiction.

Evil-aligned characters are sociopathic, harmful to right-thinking people, and destructive. It's the difference between Bruce Wayne (who is Good) and the countless evil masterminds who get punched in the face.

Also, someone who wants to play an Evil character is clearly going to be a problem player. It's one of those telltales that you better rein him in fast, or you're going to have to deal with a lot of bullshit. If he sulks about it, that's just proving your point.

>>51429452
>There are gods who are specifically Chaotic with Chaotic followers.

Yeah, a chaotic follower would be your average Catholic in real life. They say they're Catholic, but don't actually know much about their religion or regularly attend church sessions.

Alignments were a mistake.

>>51429423
>clean deaths
His soul ends up in the same place, so there is literally no difference. And maiming or charring someone sure as hell isn't "clean".

>>51429450
Get over yourself. We describe shit in broad strokes because trying to account for every single little difference in what makes a character unique would be an endless and ultimately pointless endeavor as it doesn't tell us about the alignments themselves. Sure, maybe your CE character doesn't like killing people in their sleep. Maybe he has some code against it or a personal fear that he doesn't want to act on someone else or he really respects his parties' wishes but in general the CE dude will kill another to advance himself. The CN will do so if he has too but attempt not to. The CG will try to avoid it at all possible avenues as the end of life is the end of all possible freedoms.
>>51429451
CG is fine since its really a transitionary period for most characters like Robin Hood no longer being chaotic when Richard came back.

>>51429497

Not really. There are six alignments for normal players and three for dipshits. It's an easy warning sign to weed out That Guys.

Like anyone who wants to play a Kender.

>>51429485

Chaotic people are worse than Evil people. An evil character can still be chained by law and order, or ambition. Nothing stops a chaotic character who refuses to recognise law and order.

>>51429506
>We describe shit in broad strokes
Except, you know, you're not. You're defining very specific characters. Not broad concepts in any way.

>>51429503

Exactly. Maiming or being charred is bad. Being killed by negative energy is WORSE than that.

Also, people killed by negative energy are more likely to become undead.

>>51424177
>rectangle of snooze are the lawful choices
>"im a special snowflake!" chaotic and neutral are "regular human choices"

Someone doesn't know what an agentic personality is and that 70% or more of the population fits into it.

All chaotic alignments can be summed up as that kid in highschool who wore nothing but black, watched too much anime, and legitimately believed he might have some kind of special skill or natural talent that he hadn't tapped into yet.

All neutral alignments can be summed up as that kid who was probably on the spectrum and didn't have any friends because he was a massive douchebag and pushed people away because "humans are all stupid and worthless".

Neither neutral nor chaotic is representative of a "natural" human response.

>all evils are strictly bad
Fucking christ, you're one of those hyper-meme relativist retards that doesn't like bad things but also hates authority. No wonder you have such shit opinions.

>>51429503
Not him but the difference is like between conventional munitions and nuclear weapons. It's not that one subjectively "feels" cleaner; it's that one objectively pollutes the world.

I think Paladin characters should be banned as PC. They are no fun personified.

>>51429524

That's completely wrong. Chaotic Good and Chaotic Neutral people are objectively better than Evil people, because being Evil universally means that you're a shithead.

Seriously, it's hard to be evil. Being greedy and selfish doesn't mean you're evil. Being a jerk doesn't mean you're Evil with a capital E either. As per the alignment descriptions, you have to be a real motherfucker to be Evil.

Either that, or you're part of an evil religion (which is bad), some kind of unholy creature (worse), or you're powered by negative energy, which means you're mainlining Evil.

>>51429536
>Not broad concepts in any way.
Are you blind or just unable to read into anything at all? CE will sacrifice someone else's effectiveness or resources for their own goals with little remorse. CG will sacrifice their own effectiveness or resources for someone else. CN could go either way and will wait until the situation makes itself clear.

>>51429543
>All chaotic alignments can be summed up as that kid in highschool who wore nothing but black, watched too much anime, and legitimately believed he might have some kind of special skill or natural talent that he hadn't tapped into yet

Aka, this kid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGbE0L2zWbc

>>51429515
Let me take a wild stab.
>Lawful Good
>Chaotic Neutral
>Chaotic Evil
These are the dipshit alignments, right?

In my experience. NOTHING stops a dick from being a dick. It doesn't matter if they play as Good, evil, or ugly, he's going to be a dick no matter what. Let him play as a Chaotic, and he will just disrupt the party. Let him play as Lawful Good, and he will play as the Spanish Inquisition. Let him play as a Good character, and he will stole things from the party to give it to charity.

>>51429592

Found the problem player. It's all the Evil alignments.

>>51429590
>not comboing Scottsdale Rapes into Perfect Storm
Its like you hate being radical.

>>51429610
Really? I thought Chaotic Neutral was pretty much universally accepted as a That Guy alignment for its tendency toward LOLRANDUMB. Moreso than Lawful Evil, which a problem player usually wouldn't have the patience to play.

>>51429592
>>51429590

Chaotic neutral isn't necessarily lolrandum chaotic stupid, you know. Your typical rugged individualist is chaotic neutral. So are a lot of loners, not all of them goths or crazies.

Try and play a lawful neutral character without falling into good or evil sometime.

Is scamming war refugees with rat meat Chaotic or Evil?

>>51429590
>implying he's not neutral stupid

>>51429630

It's all about being a team player. Chaotic Neutral can be done for your typical wandering drifter who ends up with a group of unlikely heroes. Lawful Evil's more difficult because Evil alignments aren't meant for play.

Seriously, D&D is designed so the PCs are Good or at least Neutral. You don't want to be that one asshole who pings Evil when the PCs are the chosen champions of Good, or at sheltering in a ward that keeps out Evil.

> "DM, DM - I'm special and unique! My character's Evil!"

The DM either has to pander to him, or go:

> "Well, I guess that means you die."

>Party without a single evil guy.
>Quest giver is the wife of a knight who banished a couple of days before.
>After talking to the quest giver, the witch of the party puts her to sleep.
>They procede rob the house.
>They attempts to rape her, before the GM stops them.
>Also one tried wanted to harvest her organs.

>>51429707

Guess they're actually Evil and wrote the wrong alignments down.

>>51429635
>Try and play a lawful neutral character without falling into good or evil sometime.
I'd end up playing it as True Neutral but with a greater tendency toward cooperation. I can't seem to imagine what a Lawful Neutral character on the far end of the spectrum would be like.

>>51429663
I suppose the issue is just how wide each square is. You're imagining a player firmly in or below the middle band of Evil; I'm envisioning a character that's quite close to Neutral, but for whom Neutral would be a misnomer since they'd still be closer to the middle band of Evil than the middle band of Neutral.

>>51429715

If people want to be dicks, they aren't going to be stopped by a scrap of paper and a few notes.

>>51429635
>Chaotic neutral isn't necessarily lolrandum chaotic stupid, you know.

That's the problem. Most people do not know this. That's why it's one of the standard That Guy alignments.

Most of the people in this very thread don't even understand how alignment works.

>>51429649
Depends on the reason a character is doing the scamming. Without knowing the motive and rationale as to why, then impossible to say.

>>51429725

Yeah, but alignments are objective. It doesn't matter if he's "not-quite-so-Evil" or "darker-Neutral". If he's Evil, he's going to get incinerated by holy fire.

And what kind of edgelord won't just play Neutral instead?

>>51429649
It's Chaotic if you're doing it to skimp on money and Evil if you're knowingly passing them unsafe meat. These aren't necessarily mutual exclusive.

>>51429760

Money.

>>51429766
>And what kind of edgelord won't just play Neutral instead?
Good question. What about a player who plays on the darker side of Neutral, but whose personal sense of morality in real life is strong enough that Evil would be more accurate in their own reckoning?

>>51429775
If he solely does things for his own financial gain, you could argue that he's lawful evil.

Lawful, because his "code" is "get money for myself at any cost" and evil, because he is putting himself first and not worrying about how his actions effect others.

True Neutral is the most dangerous out of all alignments, specially if played as "Balance of Good and Evil guy".

>>51429841
Only That Guys play those types of characters, though.

I'd kick out a player that tried to pull the whole "I only act to balance the equation" bullshit.

>>51424155

There's only one single rule, no matter the alignment, that truly matters: Don't backstab the party.

>>51425281

Yeah it fucking is. Devotion that twisted is evil and chaotic, you dumb fuck.

>>51430190
>Devotion that twisted is evil and chaotic, you dumb fuck

You have no idea what "chaotic" means in the alignment system.

Ironic that you're calling others "dumb fuck".

>>51424155
Evil characters are fine, so long as they have a good player. I don't even mean a particularly intelligent or engaging one, I mean a player who's not a shithead. There are two cardinal rules such a player will work out pretty quickly:

1) Ensure you have a reason to stick with the party and not immediately backstab them at every opportunity. They might be useful to your own nebulous Evil plans. They might make for a good safe haven since you're on the run. They might be allies of convenience. They might just be your friends - Evil can have people it likes, just as much as Good. Either way, this eliminates the dissonance and constant questioning of motives.

2) Piss out, don't piss in. Threaten a party member, you're done, but torture a goblin, you're fine. Steal from a party member, fuck off, but scam a king or rob a priest, you can get away with it. Trick a party member into being cursed, grow up, but commit a genuine high-scale warcrime? Hell, Good parties do that all the time. You can do loads of Evil shit and get away with it scot free so long as you don't make it PvP. Remember that.

3) Communicate with other players. If you're going to do some Evil shit that will impact on quality of life or integrity of character for the other players, make sure they're on board first. This doesn't refer to the characters, but their players - a Paladin's player might be fine with you trying to steal a holy relic from his Temple, even if the Paladin himself would be livid. If the Paladin's player would be pissed off because it derailed the game or his own character arc, you might want to go back to the Evil drawing board, or work with him to find a suitably Evil course of action that he can have fun with, too.

>>51430401
This guy gets it. All good advice.

>>51430401
With reference to this - Jayne Cobb of Firefly is, at least at first, pretty clearly a Neutral/Chaotic Evil character in a Good-aligned party.

Vegeta's a Lawful/Neutral Evil character even when he joins the good guys in Dragon Ball Z, right up until the Buu Saga.

Nemo and Hyde are examples in the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, while the Invisible Man is an example of how /not/ to do it.

Ditto Loki in Norse mythology, Morrigan in Dragon Age... in Mass Effect 2, compare Morinth (party killer with no real reason to join the group or stay with it) to Jack and Zaeed, themselves both Evil characters by most measures.

Have a motive, don't shit where you eat, talk to the other players. Simple.

>>51430634
All of these are accurate. You can be a shithead in game, just don't be a shithead to your own party members.

File: MixedAlignments.png (1MB, 1600x1375px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1600x1375px

>>51430634
>With reference to this - Jayne Cobb of Firefly is, at least at first, pretty clearly a Neutral/Chaotic Evil character in a Good-aligned party.
My man.

>>51425011
Oh god yes.
In the very first game of 4e, one of our resident "That Guys" decided he wanted to, using the monster manual, play a CE bugbear fighter.

So, it started badly: he just stalked the party from afar... Of course, this being 4e, his stealth ability was pathetic (literally we all managed to spot him flat out) and "afar" was "about 8 squares away at the edge of the map".

He deliberately sat out of the first encounter. Then the second, he threw a javelin at one of the other players. When that player turned around and attacked him, he claimed he had learned his lesson and would play normally.


Next encounter he was fine, but then at the end he ran off.

And then he defected to the other side, and, at a pier, he built some kind of impenetrable barricade made out of canoes and a barrel of oil. Basically, we weren't allowed to go around the 6-square wall because GM. So we had to go through a tangle of canoes (I don't even know). Doing this caused ... Uh... Well, the barrel of oil exploded, making a great big section of the map be *on fire*.

So, the bugbear got all gloaty... and we did what usually happens in this situation, see, fighters in 4e are great for managing aggro, but shit at surviving when said aggro is three other PCs all targeted at you anyway, and you're only level 1, and don't have an escape plan.

So, combat happened, player character killed. Party reinforced by new PC from same player. Game continues. Because we are all "That guy" of one shade or another.

>>51431002
Sure

>Start new 5e campaign
>Party has a halfling thief, human fighter, dwarf cleric, dragonborn paladin and dragonborn sorcerer.
>First session, on a boat going to new land
>Party is attacked by giant octopus
>dragonborn sorcerer stays in cabin and just spends entire fight getting drunk
>Get to new land
>Go to tavern to get info on town rumors
>Dragonborn sorc just wants to sit around and drink
>Decides he doesn't want to help the rest of the party uncover local mystery of disappearing kids
>Decides he'd rather spend the entire session trying to fuck the bar wench
>Rest of the party goes on adventure
>Dragonborn sorc player wants indepth fuck roleplay

>>51431277
cont
>Session #2
>Find out disappearing kids tied to local mushroom farmer (evil magic mushrooms)
>Entire town uses mushrooms in all food and ales, impossible not to eat mushrooms if buying food in town
>Dragonborn sorc wants to endlessely consume as many mushrooms as he possibly can (straight, not even cooked into dishes), regardless of consequences
>Dragonborn sorc not feeling well and having horrible nightmares
>Party gets attacked by mushroom-men that are dopplegangers of anyone who wate mushrooms (2 party members did, one of which only had it in a single dish)
>Dragonborn sorc's doppleganger looks most like him
>Kill dopplegangers, mushrooms begin to grow out of them
>Dragonborn sorc eats newly grown mushrooms
>Goto farm, try to get job undercover to figure out what the deal with the mushrooms are
>While doing research, get hired to protect caravan of mushrooms to outside vendor
>Before leaving, dragonborn sorc decides to explore farm
>Finds farmhands working
>Decides to fuck with them
>uses poison breathweapon and straight up murders 0lvl farmhand
>Gets confused when the rest of the party asks "What the fuck, man?"
>Rest of the party books it and jumps on wagon and high tails it out of town

We have our next session tomorrow. Expecting dwarf paladin to pummel dragonborn sorc.

>>51424155
Too many players become petty little shits with ease regardless of their "alignment"

If they think they have an excuse to be dicks, like having an evil alignment, then they're going to act like dicks and they won't see anything wrong with what they're doing.

PVP in any context should be heavily controlled and limited.

Give him opportunities to steal keys from guards

Give him rivals to take his edgy evil desires out on

Set up situations where his rivals fuck with the rest of the party to give the whole group a reason to back up the one evil guy in the party.

Ideally this will encourage the evil pc to not shit where he eats.

>>51425011
I remember one time when my party located someone who was relatively unimportant besides being a small plot point that points us towards the plot. The party consisted of my fighter, Sir Not-appearing-in-this-story the Wizard, Sneaks the Rogue (his character name was actually Sneaks), Autismo the Other Wizard, and Tardy the Sorcerer.

Now, we were all playing somewhere in the spectrum of neutral to good, with the exception of Tardy. He was playing "Chaotic Neutral" (Chaotic/stupid evil/stupid). Not only would he do retarded things like steal from the party (or attempt to and fail) and the standard "lolsorandumb" pissing on dragons or whatever, but as I mentioned before, one time we found an NPC who tells us to go kill goblins because level 1. Tardy isn't a fan of doing the plot because... uh... because plot, I guess.

No, Tardy demands to know more about the mission. The mission's pretty simple, X goblin heads for Y gold because goblins are terrorising the neighbourhood. That's all the guy can tell us. Tardy decides to push the guy's head into the table and wants to torture him for "more information." I, playing a lawful good fighter, warn Tardy that I can kill his character with minimum damage on an unarmed attack. He perseveres, so I slug him with non-lethal damage (because 3.5) and he drops like a rock.

Out of character, I ask what he's trying to do, because he's not only surrounded by the security of the place, but also in a party of good to neutral characters. He responds with, and yes, this actually happened, "it's what my character would do."

Sneaks, being the Good Rogue he was (think Robin Hood), started Diplo-ing us out of Tardy seemingly actively trying to screw the party over. Autismo is getting bored because nothing's happening and decides to wander off in the general direction of the plot, to force the game forward.

All in all, it could have been worse.

I like this one >>51424233

how do you make a "good" evil character?

I just realized my character is the only real criminal in a group of oddballs who take a special job.

>>51429820

First, holy shit, what are you doing around a guy like that? Also, then he's Neutral unless there's a reason he should tip the scale into Evil.

>>51424155
>i want to play an evil character!
Okay not too hard I
>can I steal from everyone else?!
boot his ass. Seriously.

>Can I steal from other players?
>Can I attack other players?
>Can I kill other players in their sleep?
>Can I rape other players?
>Can I intimidate and harass other players?

with few exceptions, these are all grounds for kicking their ass out the door

Threads with responses like this make me wish the term Alignments couldn't be used without a robot spooling out a little ticker tape with the definition of the fucking word printed on it and mailing it to you.

>>51430634
You. You're alright.

>>51436117
Sorry, what I meant was the player would see their own character as Evil.

>>51424155
EvIL characters can still have hopes, dreams, friends, family and loved ones. They can still have morals and beliefs, even if they don't align with the traditionally defined "Good" ones in the settinf. Evil characters can be nice and friendly and even act selflessly towards people they care about.

The largest difference between a well-roleplayed Good and Evil character shouldn't be how they treat their fellow party members, it should be how they treat random strangers and their enemies.

An Evil character is willing to do ANYTHING as long as it advances his goals, and doesn't care what others think of his actions as long as they make him feel good. Nobody thinks of themselves as the bad guy.

So, an Evil character may be very kind to his fellow party members, not steal or sabotage them in any way and in fact go out of his way to aid them once they've proven themselves to him.

However, he's Evil for a reason. If he catches a thief trying to rob him or the party, they can expect to be cut down on the spot and left for the dogs. If he comes across a wounded man begging for a health potion to save his life, he's liable to walk right on by without a glance backwards. If he has a personal code or set of values (not harming women/children being a popular one, lots of Evil guys had rough upbringing) then don't be surprised if nominally "good" or "neutral" wifebeaters end up dead around him.

An Evil party member should be an asset to the party, not a hindrance. He can go places and do things none of the others would be willing to stomach, and may end up doing so on their behalf without their knowledge.

The party doesn't want to use torture, so the Evil character Mindrapes the captive and makes an excuse for how he figured out where the enemy base is located. To infiltrate a cult, an initiation ritual requires killing am innocent person. Making a deal with a Balor that, if he can be freed for a short time , he will help the party kill the BBEG.

>>51436726
Long post is long but doesn't answer the question.

>>51439728
>Long post is long but doesn't answer the question.
See
>>51436726
>An Evil party member should be an asset to the party, not a hindrance.

>>51430331

Actually, it's you who has no clue about how alignments work. Just by saying that certain qualities automatically make a character lawful, chaotic, good or evil is fucking retarded. Evil characters can love other people, and good characters can feel hate or loathing. Likewise, chaotic characters can have ties of loyalty and lawful characters can lie. There are variables and if there wasn't all you'd have was 9 different personalities with no variation between them.

So you shut your cunt mouth and come back when you have at least a budding understanding of how alignments work.

>>51425109
Your spelling alone is too evil for me.

>>51430401
>Piss out, don't piss in
I don't understand why anyone would try to act against their team. "Yeah, I'll attack the only people that haven't killed me for last several month and they should continue to accept me"

>>51442011
There are a number of reasons.

1) They're unimaginative. They're playing an evil character, and what would an evil character do? Well, be a dick. So they'll be a dick, and establish their dickishness by attacking the party. Oh, whoops, the party has no reason to just take that. Hence why you need to avoid shitting where you eat.

2) They're not versed in storybuilding. Those characters I mentioned earlier - Jayne, Vegeta, Zaeed, Nemo - they say or suggest Evil shit all the time. They even do things that the party object to - consider Zaeed's loyalty mission, Jayne trying to sell out the Tams, or Vegeta murdering the defeated Ginyu Force. So "go against the party" is a good way to establish how edgy and special and Evil you are... but all those characters are written by the same author, so their "players" are all working together. A character in a game is not, necessarily - hence why you need to communicate, and work out what expressions of Evil your fellow players are fine with.

3) They're douchebags who want to PvP, and will jump behind their alignment at the first sign of trouble to whine "I'm just roleplaaaying". Distressingly common, but also very easy to spot because they won't usually have a solid character motive.