>A good samurai knows how to defeat himself. How do i defeat

>>51414089
By stabbing him to death.

>>51414089
By hitting him til he dies.

>>51414089
Reduce his HP to 0

>>51414089
By rolling for seduction.

>>51414089
Refuse to acknowledge he exists, for a man is never truly defeated until the world has forgotten about him.

>>51414089
Uh.... a lot of people with guns? Hopefully enough bullets will get through that 22 AC before they use their 21 str to punch every one to death. (Mid level PF monk with great str and dex as well as decent wis.)

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Deprive him of allies, resources, armies, and exploitable circumstances. Make him stand alone, this is when he is at his most vulnerable. Do not give him a chance to back out and regroup, don't give him time to make a plan.

Defeating a divine king as a mere warrior is difficult by all definitions, but to defeat him when he is surrounded by armies, fortified in a city, with his heroes and vassals around him, that is impossible.

>>51414089
By "defeat" do you mean mentally, or physically through strategy?

On the mental side: Flattery. My character is a huge sucker for it, even going so far as to mildly lessen his exceedingly racist views on halflings because one complimented him.

Strategy-wise? His AC is 14 and he's a fucking bard dude, it's not exactly that hard to put him in a bind. You just have to take out the summoner and barbarian that he hides behind.

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>>51414211
>monk

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>>51414089
By taking advantage of one of his few weaknesses, like
>Hitting him with projectiles moving at a high velocity
>Hitting him with sharps objects with moderate force
>Hitting him with blunt objects with moderate force
>With holding oxygen from him for longer than two minutes
>Exposing him to corrosive materials for differing periods of time
>Exposing him to various forms of radiation for differing periods of time, depending on radiation
>Introducing appropriate amounts of different poisons and venoms into his body
>Having him fall from different hights depending on the material on which he lands
>With holding food from him for approximately 3-4 weeks
>Witholding water from him for approximately 5-7 days
Other than that though, HE'S INVINCIBLE

>>51414296
Now now lets not be rude.

>>51414211 , please tell us how you came to choose the worst martial and how that's worked out for you thus far in your campaign.

>>51414089
>How do i defeat your character /tg/?
Put him next to anything you can fall from, then wait approximately 10 seconds.

I WISH i was joking.

>Put them in an anti-magic field
>Depending on which speshul snowflake character they either end up paralyzed, unconscious, or (temporarily but long enough you could damage the body enough they wouldn't recover without them fighting back) fucking dead.

>>51414298
What is this from? I see damn Everywhere on this site.

>>51414089
>antimagic field
>beat the shit out of him

If you heal him, he will die.

In a direct combat fight? Flight and some way of attacking creatures on the ethereal / dimension locking capabilities, followed by an attack style using small numbers of accurate, high damage attacks, as he can autoblock one attack per round and has DR, so solo megahits and masses of chip damage lose large amounts of effectiveness.

Beyond that, general anti demon and anti spellcaster preparations are likely to serve you well, due to my characters nature. Death when many demon lords own claim to you does not end particularly well.

Be a cute innocent looking girl. Stab him whenever he's trying to protect her.

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>>51414211
> Monk
You are not serious right now.

Destroy his body, then try to locate and destroy a phylactory in a box of warding in orbit within 1d10 days.

My character can't even find it. If he wants it back he has to kill himself and reform next to it.

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An antimagic zone

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>>51414089
Ez

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>>51414596
Are you playing a skeleton?

>>51414514
>What is this from?
One of the recent Simpsons episodes had a "1980s" styled intro.

Spells that require charisma saving throws. My mystic-fighter can boost his AC to 29, deal 4d8+5d10+7 damage with a cantrip, fly 140ft for free, heal 2/3 of his hp in a turn more than once, and be psionic and thus immune to dispel magic, counterspell, and antimagic field, but his Charisma score of 3, along with his -4 to charisma saves, means he'll be sidelined by literally any banishment or plane shift spell. Other than that, his dexterity saving throws aren't spectacularly stellar, so that is always an option.

>>51414778
close enough.
Ported Lichloved from 3.5 to be a 5e background

>>51414089
With sufficient amount of cute boys, eventually she will exhaust herself...

>>51414848

That's some nice minmaxing you got there senpai.

>>51414888
exhuast herself of what? you kinda trailed off at the end there

>>51414852
Tomb-tainted Soul*
The Sorcerer took lichloved

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>>51414089
Wait three more months for the radiation to kill him.

>>51414089
Find some way to be immune to cold damage, effectively limiting the amount of damage he can deal to what his resistance penetration will allow. After that, it's an issue of keeping yourself healthy, shrugging off the slow effects, and closing the distance as quickly as possible.

He's kind of laser focused like that, but the lack of defense has never been a real problem since his typical engagement range is upwards of half a kilometer. He's wet tissue paper in melee, and gets dunked on by any status ailments.

This is all a fairly tall order, so what I would probably do is not engage him on his preferred terms. He's a walking natural disaster, but if you catch him off-guard at close range he'll go down like a chump, so an ambush is probably the best plan.

>>51414908
Well, you know the saying how there can be too much of a good thing?

>>51414089
Threaten to call his brother if he doesn't behave.

>>51415034
Are you by any chance playing Lina Inverse (male)?

>>51415003
Yes

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>>51414514
You must be new here

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>>51414089
She's a sucker for romance, and also by emotional manipulation manipulation. Or with drugs. Lots of drugs.

>>51414089
Hm, probably the easiest way is by destroying the world or just wiping out all sapient population. Just need to make sure that you have a way to be really far away the moment he finds out who did it. Like at minimum in a different galaxy and preferably farther.

Committing suicide while also destroying the world will make him rage for a couple of weeks. At least.

>>51414089
>how do "I" defeat "your" character
Nice try rusemaster Aku

Right now I'm DMing a Milotic bbeg that has PYSCHIC POWAH.

So far he does no damage at all and just vomits debuffs on whoever he's fighting to the point where you can't move anymore. Not to mention mind scanning to anticipate attacks The drawback is that while he's (stat wise anyway) fast, his health and defense is rather low. So you have to beat him up before you run out of stat management.

Especially if he has his Golurk friend with him. Thing's his only source of damage and he already hits like a truck due to having come in XL by Lurk standards. So not only do you have Potentate Weakering to worry about you also have a pissed off Emperor Gigantic XXL to worry about.

>>51414089
throw him into a situation where he has to exert himself more than he wants to, he'll probably just give up

take his sister as a hostage

be immune or heavily resistant to electricity, be able to make will saves or have high enough AC that him throwing a piece of metal at you won't do anything

close the distance gap and get in his face, but if you're within 125 feet, you'll likely be dead, his longest range attacks almost half a mile

make him make a fortitude save

surprise attacks won't work - he passively senses electricity within 15 feet, but can extend it to half a mile for 1 minute

I might suggest poison or having enough snipers out of his passive detection distance, such that as soon as he knew he was getting shot, he was already dead.

>>51414089
Overwhelming firepower is the only real way. Or you could just run away and ignore him to death, the only reason he's threatening is because he eats damage that would otherwise go to more threatening party members and he's damn near impossible to actually kill. If he's on his own, he can't really do all that much against anybody of a similar powerlevel.

give him like 5 minutes by himself and watch him self destruct

>>51415195
>Milotic bbeg
The Pokemon?

>>51414089
Any of the following:
Range and kite.
Out HP me.
Reflex saves

I can't retreat so if you are better, you got me.

>>51415373
Also obstacle course.

>>51414089
First off, kill him.
Second off, kill his entire family.
Third off, kill his entire clan.
Fourth off, watch over your shoulder for the rest of your life, because now you will be plagued by ninjas.

Kek my character is an Adeptus Evangelion pilot; you'll just have to I dunno, punch her in the face a few times out of her Evangelion, she's sort of pathetic physically given she needs extensive medication to even survive.

>>51415104
Sorry anon. I have no idea who that is.

Get him to sacrifice himself, his only real goal is to protect people so if you could make it nessisary for him to die to save a bunch of people like a curse or something he would probably do it himself. Also, hide, because if he knows were your are, you are fucked.

>playing broken as fuck VOP monk (yes a monk you autists) with an AC30, hitting 3d6+2d8+9 two to four times per round and is able to outrun a fucking bullet train

>>51414089

Null rod to the face.

>>51415259
What else would it be?

>>51414089
Hostages.

>>51414346
Monks are actually quite useful outside of theorycrafting. Their resistances/immunities make them strong against special abilities and spells and can be utilized in friendly fire scenarios (wading through cloud spells, stunning/finishing off casters).

>>51415536
You should go watch Slayers. Now.

>>51414089
Take advantage of anger issues, and bait desperate or hasty actions. Trap him in a situation where his only course of action is to back off and live or die heroically. Get an overwhelming military force going and turn facing him a war and not a fight along with some cronies. Booby-traps, trickery and poison. Get someone who he thought was trustworthy to betray him, if you can. Don't get too close, keep up the pressure for as long as is needed, and let him rage and rage and rage until he falls, makes a mistake or the emotion kills him.

Talking shit about how his brother was better than him might either be the last thing you do or the key to victory.

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>>51414089
Catch him while asleep, catch him weaponless, poison him, hold his dear ones hostage, hit him with a potent spell, or just set him against a superior opponent.

It's never hard to die as a Bushi. Living is the hard part.

>>51415698
Monk is an amazing wall, but nobody wants to play the wall. People want to play a wall that can do more than wall.

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>>51414089

>>51414848
any group that allows this kind of shit is a group that i want to be away from as far as possible, so please strongly consider leaving this board or the internet in general

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>>51415912

>>51414089
The only possible way is to be better at sex than she is.

Good luck.

>>51414089
Heat metal or anything with high DEX or INT saves required.

>>51414089
>How do i defeat your character /tg/?
amputation at the ankles?

>>51414089
Aside from just being out of his weight class or general human weaknesses:
Trick him into trusting you. He's not particularly open but if you stay in his company long enough he will find it hard to think much wrong of you.
Threatening him into having to respond hard and fast; he's not a real fighter and his strongest magic requires he burn his own mental fortitude, so if you can force that out and nullify it a psychic breeze will knock him over.

He's also on the verge of learning some powerful countermagic, so after that you'll need to stick to completely mundane or abstract attacks since tangible magic he will just reflect on you.

>>51414089

How do you kill that which has no life?

>sorceress
Exploit her pride, wait for her to defeat herself.

>solar
Tell the Wyld Hunt where he is, cross your fingers.

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>>51414089
What kind of pissant cares about that shit?

>>51414089
>How do i defeat your character /tg/?

Tear the character sheet in half? Run it through a shredder. Spill your beverage all over it at the gaming table. Annoy the controlling player so much that they rage quit. The ways of destroying a character are many and subtle.

Charm spells... I hit so hard that I could possibly one shot most of my party, and I have a will save of 0 and a -2 to charm spells. I mean last time it happened I got hit with a charm spell from a void touched troglodyte, and almost killed our party's Oracle... Admittedly it was their fault the Troglodyte came to be anyhow.

>>51414089
Nice try, BBEG.

>>51414089
See defeating my character is real simple. Advanced weaponry. A fuck ton of it.

>>51417176
If you don't know how you can be defeated, how will you know when someone can kick your ass?

It's easy, just let him have access to alcohol and then kill him once he's shitfaced.

And >>51414298 stole my fucking copy of that image. Give it back right now, or so help me God there will be consequences.

>>51414089
Mock her vision to her face, claim your own superiority, and then make like two or three random moves against her that don't make any strategic sense.

She'll just have a massive fit and end up nuking her own plans in an effort to out-think and undermine you, overanalysing every single move a million times over and generally become a smoking wreck of a person until she snaps under the weight of her own autism. Take advantage of that rampant superiority complex.

A straight fight is a different matter. Electricity based effects fuck her up pretty good, and being able to purge her stacked haste buffs will render her vastly less dangerous. If you can't do that, high physical damage mitigation will turn the dozen or so attacks you'll receive into pinpricks, since she relies on quantity of offence rather than quality. If she's not purged, try to one-shot her from 25% HP to 0%, otherwise you get to enjoy taking a full 36 attacks per turn, which is going to hurt even if each individual attack is doing very little. She'll crit eventually and the multiplier on that is lethal.

>>51414089

Throw a save-or-die spell at him. Despite having the best save bonuses in the party, he always rolled natural ones to resist any spell.
Or befriend him instead, or give him food. He'd gladly have friends instead of enemies.

>>51414089
Sit back and relax. The entire universe seems to have it out for him on a daily basis, and will divert whatever maladies are in the area onto his skull, because fuck him and his fucking face.

>>51417484
>visualizing your own defeat
Look at this fucking loser

>>51414089
Use a sniper rifle and blow his brains out from a distance when he least expects it

>>51415912
>remembering how proud of myself I was when I realized it was a joke about the multiple meanings for the word "traps"

>>51414974
I've always wondered what he's shouting. at the beginning and end

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>>51414089
Deny him his faith. Make him question the worthiness not of himself, but of the God-Fiend Below. Then convince him that,were he to turn against his God, he would succeed.

The Iron Prince will do the rest.

>>51418807
first thing he says is "tovarish" or comrade, don't know the rest

>>51414089
>barbarian
Ranged attacks. Use his honor to your advantage and challenge him at something you know you can beat him in.
>warlock
Remind him, he isn't being the man that Pelor knows he can be. Alternatively beat the cripple up

>>51417929
>He doesn't prepare for everything Batman style.
Loser.

>>51414089
A bomb came pretty close to doing it once

>>51414089
Make peace with them and with your enemies.

>>51414089
Robots.
If it doesn't have a mind, he has little protection against it.

Holy water. He's a zombie.

>>51414089
Break his sunglasses whenever he's outside.
[spoilers]His eyes are able to detect UV radiation, making him easy to blind in direct sunlight[/spoilers]

>>51414089
Let's see...

>Golem
Blast her with force magic, it shuts her down and leaves her completely vulnerable.

>Artificer
Deal a moderate amount of damage to him, guy is like 75 and built like a twig.

>Shaman
Bankrupt him. He can't summon spirits unless he pays them for their service. I'm serious.

>Psychoportation Psion
Mind-affecting abilities shut her down hard since her wisdom is terrible.

>Paladin
Kidnap his children. He's secretly terrified of endangering them a second time.

>Gunslinger
Disarm her. She's a terrible fighter with anything but firearms.

>LG Bard
Stab him in the back with a sword. That how our GMPC Paladin killed him anyway.

>Ninja
Offer him a chance to sacrifice himself for his friends. He's an idiot with a hero complex.

>Cleric of Pelor
Offer him a chance to sacrifice himself for his god. He's an idiot with a messiah complex.

>>51419771
>>Shaman
>Bankrupt him. He can't summon spirits unless he pays them for their service. I'm serious.

Does he live in Louisiana and have a shadow for a familiar?

>>51414089
A high level adventuring party, or localized ecosystem destruction.

They eat a LOT OF FOOD, and need to or they'll die.

>>51414089
Most reliable way would probably just be good old fashioned betrayal. Befriend her, lure her on a quest for booty, and when she has no other duplicates out, tell her to use one of her duplicates to check to see if a room is trapped (that you trapped yourself before all of this), and when the trap goes off, killing the clone, immediately stab her in the back.

By being stabbed mid-intercourse. He wasn't even charmed by that assassin, just thought he could get her before she got him. He was very wrong, and it'll probably happen again.

>>51414089
fire, my character can't stand fire.

>>51414346
The GM was quite generous with stats and was trying out a new crit system that didn't favor any particular weapon type. They crit changes get rolled back once it was realized how powerful it made characters that had some compensation for bad crit ranges. Still doing well though since a monk with a lot of good stats using Dragon Style can actually dish out a fair amount of pain while being pretty safe.

>>51415698
Monks lose to freedom of movement + any summon/created undead/bound outsider/golem/construct that teh caster has prepared ahead of time. Spell resistance is a bane as much as a boon because it takes a standard action to drop it in order to receive buffs. Also, there are plenty of go fuck yourself spells that ignore saves, SR, or both. Limited Wish -> Geas is just the most effective one.

Immunities to most cloud spells can be granted for 1 hour with a 50gp potion of delay poison.

Monks are shit, m8

>>51421772
It's ok though, if any theorycraft relies on "teh caster has prepared ahead of time," then the Monk just uses UMD to have access to anything the spellcaster can prepare.

>>51421910
So you;re wasting money in order to gain class features the caster gets for free. Also, that's something literally any class, even commoner can do. UMD is not an argument for the monk any more than it is an argument for the commoner.

Even if the caster has absolutely no minions (which are cheap, powerful, and function in an AMF in case you thought that was a weakness for even a second), Limited Wish -> Geas, Plane Shift, Maze, Reverse Gravity, Wall of Stone, Transmute Rock to Mud -> Mud to Rock, Aqueous Orb -> Hideous Laughter, Dazing anything, Enervate spam, Suffocation, Wall of Force, Prismatic Spray will all end you if any of your defences fail. In addition, if i wanted to get really frisky, I can just Plane Shift myself into my private demiplane, Gate in a solar or pit fiend, then come back and eat you with my instant minion. Even then if you do actually kill me, I can revive myself if i had a Clone prepared, let alone Contingency -> literally anything.

This isn't theorycraft, this is why wizurds, clerics and druids are big bads, and monks, fighters and rogues are not.

>>51421993
As the final punchline, the wizurd can even Greater Planar Bind an Aasimar/Tiefling Monk of 18th level to beat you up just to rub it in, in a process that takes at minimum 1 round, or about a minute if I'm taking precautions.

When the wizurd's class features includes literally copying every class feature you have from 18th level and less, you don't really have a comparative leg to stand on. The only thing capable of defeating a high level wizurd that isn;t being softballed by the DM is another wizurd, cleric or druid.

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>>51414089
Nice try you Hrud bastard that's been stalking us in the ship's vents, like I'd fall for such a blatant trap when I'm so specialized for killing things with guns from a distance.

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>>51421993
>>51422045
When the wizard's class features can be copied by any other class in the game with a skill called UMD, you don't have a comparative leg to stand on.
.
Limited Wish -> Geas (1500gp diamond + another 1500gp diamond =3000gp)

Scroll: 7th Level Spell (Limited wish) = 2,275 gp +1500gp diamond = 3775gp

>You're wasting money in order to gain class features
Don't make me laugh. UMD Monk spends a pittance of money more to Geas your Wizard. This is why theorycrafting is stupid.
Any argument you make about how a wizard can emulate someone else's class features rings rather hollow when your method of choice is "spellcasting" and anyone can do it with UMD.

I don't buy the goalpost moving cries of "but you're wasting money!" That is a commoner's fear. A hero dick dip in gold he got from the hoard of the dragon he slayed last week cares little. And if he ever find himself short on gold, he goes and gets more by adventuring and doing heroic things. Not hoarding it away in a vault like some penny-pinching accountant.

Ecksin the Kobold Wizard is all about protection. His spellmantle will help protect him from saving throw related spells, and his shielding staff of defense and bracers keep his AC very high at the 20-25 Region.

However his health is absolutely terrible thanks to his prodigiously low con, bombarding him with fireballs even if he saves and casts absorb elements, he won't last too long. Combo different spell type damage in the same turn for extra effect, dropping a cone of cold and a fireball on him the same turn he will only be able to absorb elements the one and if he fails his save against either he is panicking.

The biggest concern will be him throwing up a wall of force and running away.

>>51414089
He's human.
Stab him, shoot him, crush him.
Hell, my character has already died three times, and been brought back by SCIENCE both twice.

Watch out for his guns and gadgets though, if you're a paranormal beastie, odds are he has that exact thing that will kill you. Humans actually stand a better chance at killing him because he hates hurting other people.

>>51422363
Why the fuck are you spending multiple diamonds on limited wish -> geas? Geas has no material component

Inaddition, the wizurd has multiple avenues to gain immunity to petty things like being a valid target to spells (Astral Projection, Magic Jar, Possession -> any plant or undead body), and still doesn;t cost the wizurd a cent.

some wizurds can;t even be surprised, like diviners. You can crank call a god, every day, for free, and fucking ask what's gonna happen to you.

If we're arguing classes, we're arguing class features, and a skill available to everybody that the monk has no natural way of pumping is not a feature of the monk. The wizurd can UMD too to copy the Divine spell list if he desires. You still don;t have an answer as to why a wizurd would never create a single permament minion over the course of their life, or use any of a series of extremely long duration buffs that completely invalidate anything a monk throws at it. (Mind Blank, Freedom of Movement, Death Ward via UMD or item, etc.)

>>51422556

Actually, that;s another thing. In a system where money is power, wizurds have effectively double money because crafting, and they have the time to do it because Create Timeless Demiplane. They can literally pick immortality as a bonus feat for christ's sake, after they get bored of binding outsiders for free via the True Name arcane discovery. Wanna pick a fight with a Simulacrum of a Tarrasque? How about Blood Money abuse in order to render the cost of every fucking spell short of Wish trivial. (And if you;re smart with Magic Jar, not even that).

Money, Action Economy, Immunities, Time and Resources are against you, friend. And like I said, even if you kill the wizurd, or stop the wizurd from killing itself if you have it bound by some miracle, if the wizurd has ever cast Clone in his life you still lose. And as long as we're playing the "Copying class features for money" game, you still don't have an answer for the wizurd Greater Planar Binding an Aasimar or Tiefling copy of your exact build except at level 18, for fucking 0gp, because Greater Planar Binding, Magic Circle Against (you) and Dimensional Anchor have no material components. Even at the UMD game, the wizurd beats you.

>>51414089
Get an attractive alien to board his ship and leave the door open. Remember, you have to board BEFORE he bangs your agent. Odds are afterwards your agent will be on his side after coitus. Thankfully you have around 1-3 hours depending on how many stimulants he's consumed.

>>51415599
something that wasn't fucking stupid?

>>51422567
And after all that, if you really don;t think any of this could possibly come up in a game, run 2 games, one with a wizurd BBEG, and one foe a Monk BBEG, and make a note every time you have to fiat something into being, as opposed to something the NPC could reasonably acheive with it's class features.

Hint: The wizurd cares not for fiat, because it can do fucking everything in the bible by 15th level.

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>>51422575

>>51418864
>>51418807
it's "what did you just say about me, you little bitch" copypasta in Russian.

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>>51414089

Str 3 halfing sorceress? Tentacles have given her the worst time so far.

>>51422779
>Tentacles have given her the worst time so far.
Worst or best?

>>51416930
Positive Energy

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>>51422615
ouch

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>>51422787

Mix of both. Generally its some kind of ooze, so the grapple means imminent suffocation and death. Luckily the cavalier always pulls me out, but he usually gropes her at the same time.

>>51417484
>If you don't know how you can be defeated, how will you know when someone can kick your ass?
when they kick your ass.

>>51414089
>How do i defeat your character /tg/?
You need to destroy the phylactery
Its a hunk of diamond disguised as the centerpiece of a chandelier in some random lord's home.

He's a tech priest in a DH2E campaign, so reassigning him to the servitor factories (he is a combat medic) would pretty much ruin his life in ways death could never be able to.

I'm mildly surprised that this thread turned into combat theorycrafting and minmaxing for the most part. You should know that there are vast number of fates worse than death.

>>51414089
>playing PTU
>character specializes in Dragon-types
>Dragon is weak against Dragon

It'll sort itself out.

>>51415136
to be fair, I think Simpsons viewership has dropped a lot

>>51414089
Dex saves. I have -1 to dex.

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>>51414089
Show him that they don't want a hero.
They just want a martyr, a statue to raise.

>>51414514
Paladins

>>51415439
Fuck off Scorpion

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>>51414089
You cannot defeat them because they don't exist.

>>51415912
So a House of the rising Sung?

>>51422556
>>51422567
>>51422622
Astral Projection and Magic Jar will cost you more than a cent, but I forgot Gaes doesn't have the diamond, so meh.
>UMD is available to everybody, so you can't use it!
But if it's available to everybody, then everybody can use it.
>wizard can UMD too to copy the Divine spell list
So can the monk. But he can also use it to copy every spell the wizard can cast or learn.
>some wizards can't be surprised
But Perception is a skill anyone can take, so not really a big deal.
>If we're arguing classes, we're arguing class features
No, the neat little perfect world theorycraft where you get to define what is/is not ok is circular logic.
Well, I guess since the spells a wizard gets are available to anybody with UMD, which is anybody with a character sheet, that it's not really a feature of the wizard. See the problem with your argument?
>In a system where money is power...
In any theorycrafting discussion, wizards always come back to this. "I can craft!"
It's a skill anyone can do. Guess my monk can do that. Or perform. Or profession. Or adventure.
"I can make magical items!"
But any place you can sell them at, I can buy them at. City wealth, and all.
Wizard Greater Planar Binding an Aasimar or Tiefling copy answer is 500gp/hd = 9000gp
Scroll 8th Level: 3,000gp for a commoner with UMD to do the same or
Scroll 9th Level: 3,825gp for something like Mage's Disjunction, I guess. I mean, if you want to play the Time and Resources argument, it'll go round and round like the circular logic that it is.
Entirely "perfect world" baloney.
>Action Economy
Still comes down to who goes first, the eternal chicken and egg argument of /tg/, from Chess to Monopoly to Warhammer to Uncle Wiggly, to D&D. If we assume the perfect world for the Monk, he'll go first. If we assume the perfect world for the Wizard, he'll go first. And if we don't do perfect world theorycrafting, then we realize at the end it all comes down to the luck of the dice.

cut the eye stalk on his shoulder.
it's his heart. don't ask how did this happen, it's way too complicated nonsense.

>>51420828
>"She's an assassin, bu~ut I think I can get it in before she stabs me."

>>51418807
First panel: "Comrade!"
Last panel: machine translation of "I graduated top of my class in the navy seals" copypasta.

>>51414089
Befriend him. He won't need to fight you if you're friends.

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>>51417929

Truesight + surviving the first hit

>>51414089
His social skills are lacking. If you are very persuasive, you might convince him to stop his current quest to help you.

He is not very strong yet, so also stabbing him until he stops moving is an option.

>>51414089
Offer him a deal. He's a sucker for deals that make him more powerful, figuring that he can use what he gains now to pay the piper when they come for their due.

He is wrong, so very wrong.

Make him angry. He does dumb stuff when he's mad and forgets that he can cast spells.

>>51423446
As someone who barely even touches the system any more, and therefore has no stake in this argument: monk's shit. Basically every class can do what he does, but better and more effectively.

And also, a monk can't two-hand unarmed strikes so he just loses to someone two-handing an axe or something anyway

This isn't from theorycrafting or whatever, this is from running multiple different campaigns with multiple different players.

>TN Human Dragon Ancestry Sorcerer
Grab her. She has 12 STR, but it's still her lowest stat and she has a fear of being touched. Also gag her, because of her tendency to cast Thunderclap via screaming.

>NG Homebrewed School of War Wizard, Half-Elf
It's low-level, isolate them and they're probably fucked.

>>51414089
Make him burn through his extra lives as fast as you can. Bigger you go, the better, 'cause some pissant gun isn't going to cut it

>>51414089
Keep your distance and keep shooting.

Or alternatively, if available, shoot him with a light turbolaser.

>>51414089
Good punch to a throat or a gag would suffice. Basically anything that would prevent him from talking your brains out.

>>51414089
Orbital bombardment is your best bet. Failing that, concentrated artillery has been known to work.

>>51414089
Find someone that is irresistibly sexy - as in, truly irresistible, be it by magic or mundane means.

Because she'll eventually give in to those urges that her mother keeps whispering to her about from afar, and kill and eat them, and in doing so become the hag that she has resisted becoming so far.

Otherwise, you're out of luck, because she's a coward and will avoid being accosted.

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>>51414089
Prove their ideology to be a sham.
Wait...

>check GM history
>description applies to every villain I've ever made

I really need some new parlor tricks...

>>51415912
Wish we ran into those type of traps...

>>51424955
Well, that anon's entire argument was that Monk is relevant because he can mimic Wizard class features with money, which tells you all you need to know.

>>51414089
Trick him into thinking you're helpless and get his trust. He has been betrayed countless of times and is weary of everyone, but he literally cannot stop helping the weak.

Fail to completely smash him in your first betrayal and you're fucked tho.

Put a bunch of c4 in his car and wait.

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>>51417578
Fuckin' come and take it faggot

>>51414089
He's prone to making gestures of trust, so just stab him in the back.

>>51414089
Marry him and make him a good housewife.

>>51414089
>A wise samurai doesn't reveal his weaknesses.
Why would you ask me such a thing?

>>51414089
Apparently with a bow + high init
>tfw instantly downed in the first round of the first fight of the campaign, despite toughness perk and enhanced init

>>51420370
No. He's basically an Orzhov priest from MtG and he summons ghosts via reverse-life-insurance. "Hey, are you afraid of dying without balancing your soul and reaching the glorious halls of Celestia? For low-cost monthly instalments while you're alive we'll ensure your soul remains on earth as a ghost, giving you more time to wring your past wrongs and maybe figure out who killed you!" (in tiny fine print) "Customers' spirits may be called upon for service by official shaman in exchange for pre-determined financial compensation according to their value."

>>51414089
Take advantage of his low strength and intelligence.

>>51425579
My party faced one once. It was at the end of a dungeon that had nothing in it but a single plot-important item, a couple of mimics, and a whole lot of traps (pitfalls, dart traps, etc.).
The trap (humanoid) was actually just a very advanced mimic. The party tamed it & took it to cleric school.

>>51414089
throw a surprise skeleton at non-binary gender description goes here to cause a fear-induced heart attack.
just a normal, dead skeleton.

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>>51426766
>The party tamed it

>>51426911
In a game I was in I convinced an advanced mimic to become a maid for an inn that was more or less our homebase. She was perfect for the job because she could turn into any tool she needed to be.

She grew to have an unhealthy relationship with my character. Since I saved her from a life of "horror" she became obsessed with me. Kept turning into my bed so I would sleep in her.

Easiest way that won't consume much resources, grappling. My monk strikes good for his level, but almost got thrown into a pit of spikes and doesn't allow help from allies in hand to hand one vs ones or use any weapons.

>>51427118
I'll admit, that sounds awesome to me.

>>51414650
One of the people in my campaign made a monk, (though he's planning on taking levels in psychic warrior later) and he did jack shit for most rounds with his low hit rate. Is there something I can do to help him should he get underpowered?

>>51427373
What system? How did he build? With my 3.PF monk I just focused on Str and took Power Attack, Dragon Style and Dragon Ferocity.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/dragon-ferocity-combat
With how monks in Pathfinder work this means you basically end up dual wielding 2h hammers. They hit chances are a bit low but you are basically trading that for a large number of attacks and hitting fairly hard. Not the best set up but unless every one else is munchkining it up they'll hold their own well enough.

>>51427492
Only 3.5.
He's currently at monk1/psywarrior 3 and isn't planning on more levels in monk, but he found a feat that allows his PW levels to stack with monk for flurry, unarmed dmg and AC bonus, so he'll be fighting like a monk with added psionic powers. Other than that he just took some feat that made him do more damage x/day, but that hasn't really helped since he hardly ever hits anything

>>51427590
Unfortunately neither of those classes are particularly good in 3.5. What are his stats like? The best you can do with that is focus on maxxing your Str? Did he fall into the trap of trying to get his dex and wis up at the cost of not having his str as high as possible?

>>51427687
yep
14, 14, 13, 8, 16, 8 across the board.

>>51427718
Ouch, I'd let him to and rebuild the character a bit. At least let him rearrange his stats to focus on str.

>>51427766
Apart from that I'd suggest to him the weapon focus (unarmed strike) feat and getting a str boosting item.

Put him in a situation where his quest for apotheosis forces him to kill one of the very few people he cares about. His assistant who was his fellow slave before they killed their master would be an ideal target. She's about the closest thing to family that he's got. If she got hurt and it was at all his fault he'd fall into a depression mall goths can only dream of.

Failing that, a good old-fashioned APCR shell would do him in nice and clean. Warforged armor's good, but it's not that good.

>>51424955
>Every class can do what he does for the same cost or maybe in some cases a little cheaper in gold.
>This isn't theorycrafting
Sure, the fighter can craft and sell for unlimited money and take UMD, or any character. But then why don't you just apply that circular logic to the wizard and call it shit? Afterall, any class can cast spells with UMD. Maybe, emulating class features isn't a good measure of calling a class shit, which was my point this entire time.
>This isn't from theorycrafting or whatever, this is from running multiple different campaigns with multiple different players.
I've played plenty of campaigns, and never once have I seen the theorycraft wizard other anon was tooting around in action. I saw a few players try to, but things never went nearly as well as anon likes to pretend.
>loses to someone two-handing an axe
Well in wizard anon logic, he just disarms the motherfucker or sunders his weapon after winning initiative and abundant stepping, which he can do because he talked to the gods today about what he will face so he won't be surprised. Or just uses UMD to cast Time Stop, then casts buffs and Reverse Gravity. Oh, he sure showed him, didn't he! See how stupid this drivel is? And yet the Wizard player spouts it like he shouldn't be called out for it.
>>51425607
When will you learn that my point this entire time has been any of your "perfect world" theorycrafting is circular logic? With your logic the monk is as powerful as the wizard because
>crafting for lol unlimited gold
>lvl 18-20
>exact right answer for any situation
It's not anything more than theorycraft.

>Well, that anon's entire argument was that Monk is relevant because he can mimic Wizard class features with money, which tells you all you need to know.
Well, sounds kinda silly til you realize that the Wizard player was arguing that the reason why monk was shit was because the Wizard can mimic his class features by expending resources, too.

>>51427766
>>51427812
ah, he's already got weapon focus (Unarmed), but I suppose I'll have to throw in a belt of giant str or something. If he really feels outmatched I'll let him alter some things, but he really seemed more focused on having high survivability anyway.

>>51428240
there is a monster feat that makes natural weapons better, maybe consider letting him have that?
believe it is "improved natural attack" a number of monk builds rely on it

>>51428712
also consider letting him have a full base attack bonus progression

>>51414089
Send a pretty distraction with a sob story.
He's a sucker for damsels in distress.

>>51414089
Attacks that can't miss.

>>51415698
So... their 'immunities' that are some of the cheapest to acquire through money and their 'resistances' that equate to SR, which is actually harmful if your party has a spellcaster that throws out buffs and is useless against anyone who uses no-SR spells, and all Good saves, which is really shit compared to a Paladin, somehow makes them 'strong against special abilities and spells'? No, I don't buy it.

>>51414089
S - ranged attacks and keeping well away from him. His energy drain makes him near unbeatable in melee range.
V - antimagic. She can deal exactly 1 damage with nonmagic shit, being a fairy and all.
C - antimagic and a very high athletics bonus. His telekinesis WILL fuck you if you disable his magic.
Ar - antipsionics, or draining her energy.
Al - attacking him at range is the only way to win. Even then, he isnt shabby with a bow, so watch out and use cover. Getting into melee range will result un being hardcore fucked by a magical bullshit sword.
L - learn how to fight blind, or find a way to prevent magical blinding. He usually tries to talk you down with his massive persuasion bonus though, so mute him before he ends the fight with honeyed words.
J - magic will get him. He has an incredibly poor understanding of magic. All he knows is how to shoot people and figure out who committed what crimes.

>>51427687
PsyWar is pretty decidedly T3 so I definitely wouldn't say that the problem was his class choice, it's that he's trying to play it at low levels with low enough STR that means he's got fuck all accuracy when he's using Flurry. Nothing can really save you from that.

Charm him, or kill off his birds.

>>51414089
But how do you fight yourself if he also know how to defeat himself?

Antimagic field or immunity to magic
Proceed to beat to death