MTG Legacy General

The topic of this thread BUGs me.

just built infect to get into the format. miracles dredge, storm, and death and taxes are the main part of my meta.What do you guys recommend for side board options.

Just have a question. I run 4 Goblin Guides over 4 Stormchaser Mages in UR Delver. Is this a mistake? Goblin Guide seems to be the better card, hes less mana and he usually hits in for more just by the math, he lowers your curve even more then it already is so your Dazes are even better.

The math
Turn 1 Goblin Guide attack 2
Turn 2 untap attack 2
Turn 3 untap attack removed

Total 4 damage

Turn 1
Turn 2 Stormchaser free spell attack 2
Turn 3 untap free spell attack removed

Total 2

So for the same situation Goblin Guide gets in 2 more damage. A turn 2 removal spell makes him even better as he gets in for 2 but the mage doesnt get in at all. The only turn mage starts hitting in for more is turn 4 if he hasnt been removed. Also Mage requires you to sometimes spam free spells to get the most out of him which is sometimes a suboptimal line of play, Goblin Guide is always 2/2 so he can swing, reveal a card, you see a threat or combo piece on top and decide to hold up mana for counters or responses.
To me the math seems to favor Goblin Guide. Does anyone want to tell me why im wrong?

>>51401534
boooooooooooo,. But also,can B/G decks still be a thing. I was playing around with a failry old list on xmage and it was quite fun. It ran hypnotic specters and goyfs while keeping the board clear with black removal/discard and green enchanment killers. I think it was called eva green.

BUG is for scrubs, real men go Golgari and don't need no stinking Brainstorm

>>51401708
Ive never understood Stormchaser, je seems bad.

Also the op pasta needs Turbo Depths in there somewhere, I guess uncommon.

>>51401730
Brainstorm is one of the most powerful cards in Legacy

>>51401779
>Stormchaser
>2cmc
>flying
>haste
>sick gains while bolting/brainstorming/countering/whatevering
How is that bad if nothing else its a flying swift spear that gets trough chalice on 1

>>51401779
He isnt horrible. He has a lot of abilities for just two mana but hes just too slow. Theres sometimes where you tap out to play him and dont have a Probe so he just hits in for 1, then opponent removes on endstep, even if he does live till 3rd turn, 2 non creature spells make him hit for 3, which is 4 in total, still worse then a turn 1 Goblin Guide. Even if you had 3 non creature spells hes worse then Guide by a single point of damage.

>>51401845
Yeah but Plowshares, Abrupt Decay, and now Push are the most played removal and he dies to all 3, hes good against Lightning Bolt removal but thats about it.

>>51401845
It's powerful, but there are so many other powerful creatures for Delver decks, even in UR. It has to compete with Lavamancer, Delver, Pyromancer and even Clique.

>>51401845
>sick gains while casting non creature spells
Thats a big problem I have with him, hes slow to get out so once you have him out you can fall into a trap of trying to get the most out of him by "spamming" your low cost non creature spells which isnt always optimal

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>>51401845
I just dont like that it's a 2 mana creature with 1 power, when GG is a 1 mana creature with 2 power, in a deck.that runs Daze. Yes, Stormchaser has Prowess but you would have to avarage more than 1 spell a turn, not to.l mention the fact that it comes down a turn later. But I dont play the deck at all, its more of a passing confusion from a bystander. I dont have a dog in the fight either way.

>>51401949
Lavamancer is great in the board, Young Pyro is too slow these days, hes better in slower deler strategies like Grixis where he syncs with Cabal Therapy, Clique is sweet but hard to ask for three mana in a 16 land deck so i run Bedlam Reveler instead for a huge threat that draws me cards and outclasses the Goyfs from BUG decks, doesnt die to Abrupt Decay or Push either.

You guys seen this? Pretty interesting stuff, and a few puzzles for you guys
http://www.channelfireball.com/home/how-to-play-vendilion-clique/
>In response to a miracle trigger: Miracles are actually triggers, so you can Clique your opponent’s Terminus while the miracle trigger is still on the stack.
I never actually thought of this.

>>51401452
so i have most of a goblin deck, but unfortunately the price of the lands is stopping me from finishing it. Particularly since goblins is low tier anyway.

any recommendations for obtaining the rishidan ports and cavern of souls for something less than my soul? or am I shit out of luck

>>51402271
Idk, I have a cavern, but I only needed 1 because 12post. Idk about goblin lands, there really isint anything you can substitute for them aside from maybe ghost quarter. Is there any cheap fast red mana you could replace them with to maybe make up for the lack of disruption with speed?

>>51402553
there's no real replacement. It's either go super aggro with mono red and chrome moxes or go controlly with land disruption. Considering no one attends tournaments with the aggro version I assume it's even worse than the disruption one.

I also can't really afford to buy the fetchlands for this deck anyway so it's mono red for now. I need wastelands too but my friend said he was going to buy me one or two so I might pick the other two up. And i have most of modern merfolk and that needs cavern of souls too so for now I'm going to just play the waiting game and continue playing casual. If I ever see these lands for cheap I'll pick them up. But my definition of cheap is like ...30 bucks? I hate spending even that much on a card.

>>51402710
Never underestimate fetches in a mono colord deck. I run a set of foothills and mire...i think,it been a while, anyway, Even in a mono colord deck like burn its nice just to keep the deck shuffling so you dont keep topdecking lands. The kahns versions of mire and foothills you can find cheepish. 12$ on a good day, but probably more around 15-20 normally. Pretty cheap considering most fetches used to be upwards of 50-60 before the reprints.

>>51402834
this argument is kind of bullshit.

If you think shuffling the deck will prevent topdecking land then your deck isn't actually randomized. Granted pulling the land out of the deck will reduce your topdeckingland chance but the odds are miniscule. Like assuming youre 3 turns into the game, you only reduce the chance by 0.04%. I don't agree that 2 life (10% of your resource) is worth that percentage of gain.

The only time I agree is if you know what is on top of your deck through ponder shenanigans.

>>51403009
actually just redid my calc. Not sure if this is right either kinda tired haha

scenario. 20 lands in deck. 50 cards left in deck.

prior to fetching chance of land drawn is 40%

after fetching land 38.75%.

So a bit more than 1% chance increase.

>>51401452
Why is lands still in the common category? It has pretty much completely fallen out of favor. According to mtggoldfish and mtgtop8 it is only around 2-3% of the meta. Plus tabernacle's price tag is really off putting to people that want to pick up the deck. Its just not a tier 1 strategy at the moment.

>>51403324
This is partially due to the decks extreme price on online and paper. Online Rishadan Port is more expensive then paper Ports and causes the deck to be one of the most pricy decks, and in paper Tabernacle is very pricy and keeps going up

>>51403324
It's also partially due to no one regularly updating the OP. If you make the next thread, feel free to move it down.

>>51403324
Lands is still a common deck.

>>51403324
Its thankfully a deck that is great just because you get free wins probably more then any other deck. Some decks in Legacy have abysmal Lands matchups so it helps to grab a free win at a tournament.

>Deck
Playing Burn
>Sideboard Changes against BUG
Not much I can do except Pyroblast
>Next cards purchased
Some duals and foil fetches
>Bad deck you wish was better
Goblins, I miss when Tribal strategies were viable

Is there a format thats Legacy up until a certain set? I would love to play all sets up until Magic 2015 are legal

>>51403009
Then why dose literally every burn list run them? Its not like burn runs any draw power or search. Before I ran fetches I always had an issue with top decking lands. With fetches, that still happens somtimes, but not nearly as much as it used to. And my land count has been the same through out the build.

>>51401452
>What deck are you playing/building?
I play 12post and burn. Right now im bulding a pox deck.

>What changes have you made to the deck/sideboard to fight Leovold?
In burn i side shit for him, I can just bolt him. 12post i dont think really has an answer for him.

>Next cards you want to purchase?
Normal staples that I cant afford

>Bad deck that you love but wish was better
MUD I want MUD to be good again. Normal stompy MUD or stax MUD I dont care. I just want MUD back. I love control thats not blue.

Anyone here actually buy old packs or boxes? I buy a lot of Zendikar and have even opened a few Urzas Saga packs

>>51403973
I think most lists run them for easy fodder for grim lavamancer

The meta at my store is very fair. There is a lot of delver, maybe a couple miracles players, some midrange like shardless, 4c midrange, or nicfit, some stompy players (goblins and eldrazi). Burn pops up occasionally, as does elves. Sometimes there is also d&t or maverick. However, there is very little in the way of storm/reanimator/sneak and show/etc. What is the best deck that preys on fair decks to take to events like this? I am mostly looking for a delver-killer, as there has been a lot of grixis/4c delver lately.

>>51401970
>spamming your low cost non creature spells
>fall into a trap

Bruh you're playing a fucking burn deck what else were you gonna do with those cards?

>>51402020
>Bedlam Reveler instead for a huge threat that draws me cards and outclasses the Goyfs from BUG decks, doesnt die to Abrupt Decay or Push either.

Was hoping someone was going to mention Bedlam Reveler before I did. He's the best new creature for U/R Delver in a long ass time. I'd prefer him a lot over Stormchaser.

>>51404276
Hold up mana for soft counters like Spell Pierce

>>51403715
Literally why.

>>51404221
>What is the best deck that preys on fair decks to take to events like this? I am mostly looking for a delver-killer, as there has been a lot of grixis/4c delver lately.

Honestly, Lands, but since I doubt that's a good option.

BUG Aluren with Leovold, or honestly any deck with Leovold is so good against Delver.

>>51403009

The statistical chance you'll draw more lands varies depending on the number of lands and the number of fetches. Fewer lands and more fetches lead to fewer lands drawn per turn.

>>51403324
>>51403523

I don't think Lands has been a tier-one strategy in years. It's great in metagames dominated by Dredge and "fair" decks. Folds hard to combo, etc. because it has no way to interact beyond taxing effects. For a while it seemed like it was doing well because Eldrazi and Delvers were all over the place, but now, plenty of decks aren't absurdly reliant on nonbasic lands. It doesn't really have any strategy for dealing with most combo decks beyond playing Bojuka Bog or Sphere of Resistance and hoping for the best. And there's also Blood Moon. And Back to Basics. And Surgical Extraction. And Price of Progress.

>>51405008
Its always had a strong showing. Its definitely a good Legacy deck just not the best atm. Unfortunately im a player who loves bad decks like Enchantress, Goblins, Parfait, and Painter. Hurts to know those decks will slowly die. Goblins and Parfait are all but dead already.

I just miss when Legacy was a bit slower. Like right before RTR was good.

>>51405157
I think you have your meta to fault entirely on this.

If your meta is full of fast decks - you feel Legacy is faster.

For me, when I have to deal with D&T and Miracles a lot - it feels too slow often but if I'd be facing nothing but delvers, infect and ANT I'd think it's a little too fast too

>>51403715
Vintage.

>Legacy

Bant goodstuff.

>>51405157
>Legacy before DRS
Good times, friend. In these dark times me must cherish those memories.

>>51402244
Another good trick with Clique is if you have a bounce effect, such as Vapor Snag, then you can bounce their creature and then hide it using Clique.

>>51402244
Learning how to play against miracles is important. If they miracle a Terminus and they have one in the grave, you can Surgical the one in the grave to hit the one they just drew.

>>51401807
Real men willingly handicap themselves. And lose to Brainstorm decks. And DON'T GIVE A FUCK.

>>51403973
>Then why dose literally every burn list run them?
almost exclusively because of lavamancer.
if your list doesn't run him you should not run fetches. period. the life loss is VERY relevant.

>>51405008
The problems you listed can be combatted with turn 1-2 Marit Lage in addition to the spheres, not too uncommon. Karakas combats SNT variants pretty good. Surgical gets either the combo or Pfire, you can still finish your opponent out with the other while Wasteland+Quartering them out of the game. Blood Moon can be answered, Top finds answers combined with draw 3 every turn pretty good.

>>51408516
Just play a good deck that doesnt need Brainstorm or beats Brainstorm decks.
Theres Lands, Eldrazi, Burn, and Death and Taxes. All of them have great matchups against Brainstorm decks.

>>51409247
Lands is not only expensive but a very difficult deck to play

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So I plan on reworking my nic fit list with a few ideas and I'd like some input before I go and buy/sell for changes.

>Remove cute tech now that everyone has seen it.
>Broodmate dragon and huntsmaster out
>sorin and command to sideboard
>Fix my basics because I apparently was drunk when I made the landbase

And here is the fork in the road.
>Keep 4 GSZ, do a toolbox deck with main board hate for the local decks
>Remove 1-3 GSZ in favor of diabolic intent and make the deck around recurring nightmare value
I'm also open to other suggestions, I'll have 1 taiga as to keep red open in the sideboard

>>51403324
On this topic I noticed Aluren is still under Rare and it's definitely more of an Uncommon these days. Maybe we should update the OP.

>>51410491
Add islands and play Brainstorm

Wish I got into Legacy so much earlier then I did. I dont mind most prices of cards since im well off financially and have a Legacy and two Modern decks already but seriously the prices of dual lands are so high now its insane. Most other reserved cards are at least fair besides Tabernacle, Power , and Moat

And Eternal Masters barely helped. Only thing nice it did is gave us a new FoW. Force would probably be a $120 card by now if not reprinted. Jace was nice but the rest of the mythics were trash and the only good rares were top and wasteland.

>>51410904
If I could get a trop or a sea I'd play junk with a leovold

Thats the biggest issue I have with Eternal Masters. The draft environment is good yes but the main purpose of these sets should be to reprint cards of high value and limited supply so that players can play the formats they love more easily. Im not saying they reprinted nothing of value, im definitely glad to have more Forces, Jaces, and Sneak Attacks in the market, but the extremely limited print run causes these products not to do as much as they could. If these products even had 1.5 times the print run they had that would lower the price of something like Force of Will to about $60 and stuff like Sneak Attack into the $10 range. The only masters set that I ever felt achieved both a great limited environment and a fantastic selection of cards that needed reprint was the first Modern Masters. Even today those packs hold their value well and the rares you can crack are fantastic.

>>51411167
What's important to remember is legacy lacks the demand the modern sets have. It's also good to remember that it's supposed to have reprints specific to all eternal format's, not just legacy. Pauper, vintage and commander all got nods in the set, legacy just got the most

>>51411274
I would have thought commander players would drive demand enough to sell more packs.

>>51411380
They get wrongly attributed with every jank rare that's printed but EMM and conspiracy are really the only sets with stuff for them outside an odd common saying each opponent instead of target

>>51410491
>hunt master
Why? Is it cause you bought him for 40 dollars when he was in standard? There's so many better things you can do for 4 mana

>>51411647
It's an alright value creature I could grab with GSZ. I'm cutting it because, just as everyone warned me, it's not as good as I thought it would be.

I put Miracles back together. It's a fun deck.

>>51408516
>I could only just afford a single Bayou, I've got no chance of buying multiple Trops and Seas

What was everyone's first dual land? Mine was badlands.

>>51413733
Volcanic. Badlands is the ultimate cuck dual.

>>51413753
Well I needed one for my deck.

>>51413733
Tundra. It's the copy I keep in my commander deck

>>51409823
>Thespian's Stage copying Dark Depths, swing with 20/20
>difficult to play

>>51413733
I bought two trops and played with one breeding pool for a while when I first started. now I have the full 4 + a playset of underground sea + 2 bayou.

>>51413733
UNL Bayou. I wanted it for my EDH and it conveniently became useful for Legacy purposes after they printed Abrupt Decay.

>>51413733

Badlands for me, too. It's so bad...

Followed up with two Underground Seas. They were marked as "heavily played," but I think one would only be moderate at worst. The other's got gunk on it, so I think hp is fair.

>>51415243
I think I got my 2 seas next also. Then a bayou, then my volc and then trop

>>51413733
I went to my flgs and bought 3 trops last summer. A few days after that I bought 3 volcanics and finished canadian.
A few months after that I splurged on 2 U Seas and a Badlands. Then I went ahead and bought a Bayou, as it is so much better than trop in the SB for TES.
I doubt I'll be buying any in the near future, as I have 2 different decks, with very different playstyles that I enjoy.

>>51414097
not him, are you 10?

>>51413733
I got 4 underground seas, 2 tundra and 4 scrubland in a big trade

>>51401452
>>What deck are you playing/building?
Legacy just started in my area. I took Eldrazi to the first event (2-1, lost to Turbo Depths) and D&T to the second event (2-1, I fucked up against Leovold).

Next event, I'm thinking of playing either Leovold, Turbo Depths, or maybe even UR Delver or Elves.

>>What changes have you made to the deck/sideboard to fight Leovold?
If I play Taxes again, I'm going to have a Pontiff in the side.

>>Next cards you want to purchase?
I dunno. The only legacy cards I don't have playsets of are Grim Tutors and Imperial Recruiters and I'm really not interested in the pertinent decks.

>>51410491
>asian cards
idiot

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>>51413733
tfw you have two legacy decks but 0 dual lands

Unless city of traitors counts, dual means two right?

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>>51410491
What's up with the teeth anon?

Also here is my nic-fit list
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/21-12-16-Gdb-nic-fit/

>>51413733
Plateau. Narset EDH.

>Dead Formats General

>>51413733

A Savannah for Maverick. I wish that deck could be good again.

>>51417090
I'm not terribly fond of birthing pod as a strategy but Maren looks exactly like what I want to do with recurring nightmare. The teeth are for counters when I need one for something that only uses one counter, or to put on my deck to remind me of SDT/Sylvan library since I can be pretty forgetful those some triggers, especially during tournaments

>>51417332
*about those triggers or about some triggers. Somehow got squished into one phrase in my head

>>51417090
You don't play for teeth?

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>>51413733
Pic related

>>51418460
I think people would believe that you have a bayou in the legacy thread, no need to timestamp. nice mat though

>>51403973
It turns on searing blaze and fuels grim lavamancer. A minor improvement but every point of damage counts.

>>51413733
No idea... they were only $10-12 when I picked them up.

>>51418460
>no teeth
Get out

>>51419411
Truth be told I only got it 2 weeks ago. And if it turns out to be shit in ANT, I've still got a spot in karador for it.
>nice mat though

My first GP. I was terrible because I played the SOM fastlands instead of $50 shocks or $150 duals.
>mfw almost a third of the field was on maverick with maindeck thalia and gaddock teeg

>>51420249
I ground up the teeth to white-border the land.

>>51405157
>someone approved drs
>a 1/2 for g/b
>with 3 relevant abilities
>that are also hate
>and is an elf
Rtr was a mistake

>>51423627
Their reason for printing it was fucking stupid too
>be design team
>think scavenge will bully standard too much because we're fucking stupid
>preemptively include GY hate that is both undercosted and EXCEPTIONALLY effective
>end up with DRS and RIP which ripple through eternal formats and leave permanent impressions on the game, far beyond what scavenge could have ever hoped to accomplish
These fucking people

>>51423824
They do really fucking loathe dredge and friends. They dont even hide it.

>>51423824
I think Rest In Peace is the least fun card ever printed. I don't see how anyone can look at that card and think, "yes, this makes the game more fun for all players involved"

>>51424361
RiP allows you to do "fun" stuff like Energy Field and Helm of Obedience

>>51421914
>Grinding up teeth
Saved, reported, hidden, called the cops, called the FBI, held a summit at the UN, called moot, called hiroshimoot

>>51423852
Loathing Nazis is pretty fashionable since the 40s, your fault for not keeping up with the times really

>>51424361
That's a fun way to write Stony Silence.

>>51425726
I make the teeth I capture into necklaces and give them out to magic players I deem worthy.

>>51426018
>Giving away teeth
Almost as disgusting. You only get so many teeth, they should be loved and cherished!

>>51426096
Nah, graveyards are full of them

>>51423852
Dredge and most graveyard strategies are annoying to play against

>>51426459
On that note, I'm having trouble getting knucklebones to go with the teeth in my dicebag. Any legitimate ways of getting them or do I really need to go grave robbing?

>>51426569
You got fingers, right? Just decide how many you want to keep.

>>51426753
Can you get pig?

>>51426698
I wish. I looked into the legal ramifications and it's illegal in New York to own human bones for nonmedical reasons, even if they're mine. Fucking fascist king Cuomo
>>51426759
I slaughter 2 a year but pig bones arent a rare commodity.

>>51426569
>>51426785
Maybe see if theres a legal way to get gorilla or chimp bones?

>>51426785
Time for an illegal knuckle trafficking scheme

>>51426785

Sincerely hoping someone nails an underworld kingpin of some kind by arguing that having a skeleton puts him in violation of the law.

>>51427097
Cant find real ones from any other bone collectors and its doubtful endangered and protected species will have legal stuff like that.

Hey everyone GP Prague is burning btw.

>>51427545
Burn making a comeback?

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>>51427634
No literally burning.

>>51427762
Now THAT is some spicy tech

>>51427762
Fuckin lol

>>51427762
Looks like there was a fire in their kitchen. No injuries. Event will reportedly start as planned tomorrow.

>>51427762
So how much reserved list product was lost? Is my miracles deck 8000$ yet?

>>51426018
>tfw you didn't get a tooth necklace
time to blow my head off with a shotgun

>>51431632
I think we're on the same page.

I didnt think it could be done but somehow you all did it. You somehow made a general thats worse then the Modern one.
>namefags
>shitty memes
>shitty meme decks
>almost no actual format discussion

>>51430712
Don't make this joke. It hurts to think about.

>>51426559
Parfait, Enchantress etc. aren't?

>>51432555
Every good deck is

>>51432131
Lurk moar, these threads aren't always great but they're consistent and give me decent answers to many of my questions

>>51432131
>use names the way moot intended
>posters are generally polite unless someone has a turbo-retarded opinion
>memes aren't forced caps-lock autism
>format actually has variety to it and doesn't require a ban every 6 months to keep it "healthy"

I get that its hard but its okay to talk about things here. Nobody is going to start screeching about how remand is secretly timewalk or how side-boarding makes the game unfun.

>>51432561
Honestly I found the miracles matchup pretty fun online. Usually pretty difficult to navigate to a win the first game but then just wait for them to time out 3 minutes into the second

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>>51432131
>Bitching

Welcome to Legacy?

Legacy players are generally pretty chill and social, if you want hardcore grinders youre in the wrong place. Hell, almost every Legacy podcast out there has at least 1 pub episode, where they just record random bullshit and Q&A when everyone is drinking and playing casual games.

Combine that atitude with a format that has lost all but the most casual garbage tournament coverage, and 95% of its major tournaments so now innovation happens at a snails pace, and you have a lot of off topic bullshit.

Plus using teeth for counters is funny, fuck you.

>>51426785
Oh... so that's why "having skeletons in the closet" is supposed to be a bad thing.
Still, though, how do you determine what's medical reasons or not?
>Sir, I need you to explain why we found a human skull on your desktop...
>Oh, this? *grabs skull*
>TO BE OR NOT TO BE, OFFICER, THAT IS THE QUESTION!

>>51427762
>when your burn deck is too competitive for the local game store

>>51432907
Well I am not really sure, google isnt giving any good times to have a ton of dead people in your closet. found a seller willing to send to New York, going to get some carpals

>>51432907
>Sir, are these REAL human teeth?
>Of course not, officer! The stiff I nabbed them from was born in the 1800s, he had dentures

Does legacy jund suck now? What tech should I be looking at playing moving forward? 4 wasteland or 4 Mishra factory? Bbe or chandra torch of defiance?

>>51434670
Replacing green with blue and adding Delvers

>>51434670
its a good fair deck, punishing jund is good if control is your thing, 4 wastes since you have threats already, BBE is better in jund, Chandra is better in general.

>>51435155
Can confirm, when I'm not playing namesake I'm playing Jund. feels bittersweet to be winning with the DRS that I hate so much.

>>51432766
>side-boarding makes the game unfun
Are there people that actually think this?

>>51437783
Yes. Their argument is that their main deck was better-prepared for the match and therefore the "deserve" the win. Where sideboarding allows the inferior player to just play with cards that invalidate whatever the superior player chooses to use.

Then again these are also the people who think mana weaving is an expected part of the game by ensuring a "more fair randomization" (direct quote) and that counterspells existing in any fashion make the game bad by allowing players to just not give a shit about their opponents plans because "lol countered"

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So I just realized I have one from when I first started.

Where should I sell it? Lgs is trying to scalp me.

>What deck are you playing/building?
Playing infect in a legacy tournament tomorrow. Slowly building towards lands. Might just bite the bullet and get the Tabernacle.
>What changes have you made to the deck/sideboard to fight Leovold?
2 Submerges in the sideboard
>Next cards you want to purchase?
Tabernacle or 4 Grove of Burnwillows

>>51426559

All successful strategies are annoying to play against. Dredge-hate's been free since 1994.

A few people quit Legacy at the LGS the first time someone showed up playing Dredge. Not because Dredge isn't fair, nor because they didn't pack hate for it. They quit because they're bitchasses.

I went 3-0 the first time I brought Dredge to a tournament. Last weekend, I went 1-2 with it.

If you haven't played Dredge before, you wouldn't understand, so I'm not trying to castigate you. But seriously, it's nowhere near the top flight of decks because variance hits it hard. People who can't handle Dredge because they either don't prepare or don't like other people's beating their pet deck with it are being stupid.

I've lost a lot of Storm games to Eldrazi, and I still don't complain. Sure, I would've been happier if it hadn't been a deck, but sometimes you get a terribad matchup. This is Legacy. Everything goes here.

>>51438967
MKM if you're european.
Otherwise, dunno lol ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

>>51438967
ebay is usually easy enough, if you're worried about getting scammed just put tracking on the listing

>>51439385
I need to get around to building dredge since i have LEDs for a dumb pet project that turned out to suck. Is the FoW edition actually any good or should i just stick to the old formula?

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>>51437783
Oh yeah. When I first got into Legacy I built Burn, and another guy at my local shop mentioned he had built Dredge, and wanted to playtest. He refused to play with anything bit the maindeck. He would wreck me (he was also cheating, stuff like not exiling Bridge when my stuff died, I never read the card closely because they were just casual playtest games), but every time I said I wanted to test games 2/3 post sideboard, he would say he didnt want to play anymore and pack his deck up. Coincidentally he never actually showed up to to any Legacy nights, he just liked to wave his big cardboard penis around Standars FNM to tell all the standard scrubs he was a big bad Legacy player.

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?31307-Do-you-enjoy-the-current-state-of-legacy

I've been following this thread and the general feeling seems to be that ever since Innistrad the Legacy meta has been getting increasingly staler and nowadays it's incredibly difficult to put up consistent results with a non-blue deck.

Thoughts?

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>>51441503
Lots of good points there, TheSource is really one of those websites that harkens back to to pre internet 2.0 days, no trolls, no overzealous mods, no browser crashing ad deluge, just repectful discussion.

Lots of good points. Legacy seems to have evolved into a trifecta of Brainstorm, Abrupt Decay, and Chalice of the Void. Death&Taxes is the only tier 1 deck right now that doesn't fit into that, but with stuff like Sanctum of Prelate and Thalia, theyre effectivly an honorary Chalice deck. At least locally Elves is dead, both Elves players moved to different decks.

Even stuff like BR Reanimator runs Abrupt Decay in the sideboard, because with Miracles being so prevelant you have to. I moved over to Turbo Depths partially because of its great Miracles matchup (4 out the 12 regulars for weekly Legacy run Miracles, so I see it way too much), and a huge part of that is being able to run 4 Decay.

The strength of threats is also a great point. Something like a 3/3 Mongoose or Nacatl coming in every turn gave you some time to try and dig for answers. now its more like a 5/5 turn 2 or 3, between stuff like Gurmag Angler and Reality Smasher (holy fuck Chalice on 1 into Thought Not into a turn 3 hastey Reality Smasher its a kick in the nuts).

Its hard to tell how much of the conplaints are just nostalgia though. I distictly remember taking a break from Legacy for a few months pre Innistrad, because I had several events (at the time big 30-60 biweekly Legacy 1K's, dn I miss those) I had 3 tournaments in a row where 4 out of 6 rounds were against Canadian Threshhold, and I hate that deck. So its not like every tournament was a cornucopia of different decks every time back in the day either.

I mean Legacy is still the best format with the widest array of deck architypes, I still get excited to play, But I can't remember the last time I was blown away by something new.

>>51441345
Do you like losing to RiP?

>>51441736
I started playing Magic 4 years ago and Legacy only recently so I cannot compare the format now and then, but yeah it's evident that the current meta revolves around Brainstorm, Chalice and Decay. Just look at any Legacy top 8 and it's guaranteed that almost all decks run at least one of those three cards.

And as was pointed out later in that thread, the big problem might be that Blue gets all the OP stuff and the other colors get nothing in the same power level (although White has been the exception lately with the ridiculous creatures D&T received). Maybe it's not even about other colors not getting strong cards, but WotC time and time again fucking up and releasing a stupid card in Blue. The game exists for more than 20 years and they still don't know how to properly balance the color. Either their cards are garbage or they are overpowered.

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>>51441867
its kind of interesting to compare current and old metas. I started playing around the time when new phyraxia was released. I jumped straight into legacy because it had the biggest card pool and I didnt want to have to worry about roataion. So I showed up with a.......mostly burnish shit pile and got riggedty rekted by stiflenaught, zoo, stax and actual legacy burn. That back when stoneblade was THE deck. But the meta did seem a lot more varied back then, and it just seems so much more streamlined now. If you want a midrange deck you play delver, if you want aggro and/or MUD you play eldrazi, if you want control you play mericals. Then combo is just storm or show&tell. Thats really all you ever see anymore. Honestly im just sick of seeing blue in literally every deck now too. Delver uses blue, miricals is blue, S&T is blue. Idk, a lot of the newer people only look at whats considered teir 1 or 1.5 and ignore everything else. Legacy can be so much more than just D&T, delver, eldrazi and miricals. But people only look into those decks cause "muh best deck". I mean yeh shit like zoo isint reallt legacy material anymore. And your traditional MUD build got power creeped to shit with eldrazi. But I just seems like the meta used to be more varied. I took a break right a people started brewing miricals then came back 2-3 years ago. Brewing pox cause blue control is for fags.

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Today I got my last two probes. My legacy deck is over half complete.
by volume, I'm like 10% of the way money-wise

>>51441503
I don't really feel it's that bad, but then I mostly gravitate towards the lower or middle placings, so there are loads of different decks. Of course, day 2 at GP Prague last year I didn't face any "innovative" decks. But when I'm playing Goblins, there's a lot to see at the 2-2 tier. Still, I decided to build my version of Oracle Opposition and I'd like to hear some ideas. Sadly, I have some budget cuts to make.

// 60 Maindeck
// 17 Creature
4 Coiling Oracle
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Young Pyromancer
2 Noble Hierarch (might have to use Llanowar Elves as I don't have them. Might be able to borrow one from a friend)
3 Nimble Mongoose

// 2 Enchantment
2 Opposition

// 18 Instant
4 Brainstorm
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Stifle
3 Force of Will
4 Daze

// 19 Land
2 Volcanic Island
1 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
4 Polluted Delta
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Wasteland
1 Forest
1 Island
1 Breeding Pool (obviously not ideal)

// 4 Sorcery
4 Ponder

The board would be relatively similar to a lot of Delver decks, definitely Winter Orb. Might think about using Winter Orb or Jitte main.

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Does anyone know why my Foil Grizzly Bear 7th edition is now the most expensive card in my collection???

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>>51442986
Buy outs? I'm seeing it too.

>>51443119

...Why would you buy out foil grizzly bears, and does that mean I should try and sell mine right now before it corrects?

>>51443177
You can try.

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>>51442160
my nigga. I usually lend this deck out at local tournaments, don't play it much. but it is fun,.
this is an old pic, the Call the Bloodlines were a bad experiment

>>51443268
I making it to try and answer my local meta. (assuming it didnt shit itself and die last week) It seems like it would be good in a meta of delver/D&T/reanimator/S&T. why are so many lists running cursed scroll? It honestly just seems kinda bad. Ive been playing with running one or two anglers just as a random fattie after youve cleared their board. I do plan on main decking some number of surgical just because fuck the guy across the table.

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>>51443268
Here is a current pic. I'm probably going to drop the racks for sinkholes. The racks aren't that reliable sources of damage, and between factories, scrolls, nether spirit and the platemail, I have enough wincons.

>>51443377
Cursed scroll is repeatable removal/wincon. I'be found it to be real good. I'm not a fan of non-recurrable creatures because if you need to cast an innocent blood or smallpox you lose your guy.

>>51443390

How well has Tomb of Urami worked out for you? I've only ever seen it in your lists so I am kind of curious...

>>51443676
I rarely use it, but it rarely hurts. To put it another way: I don't remember any games I felt like I lost because of it, but I definitely remember a game or 2 where I won because of it.
SPICE MUST FLOW

Gurmag Anglers. Holy shit do those things close out games fast. Yes, they dont have synergy with sac effects, but that has only come up once that I can remember in 2 years of playing Pox. And in that case I just animated a Factory in response to my own spell. Between fetches and Smallpoxes, you usually only need to connect 3 times with an Angler. I recommend everyone running Pox throw 3 in the deck and just give it a go.

>>51442834
>18 instants
>4 young pyromancers
Hmm.... Doesn't look right?

Also, I've played black and white stax. I want to brew blue stax.

>>51401540
High Tide

>>51441345

I think sideboard Force is great. Even if people grow to expect it from you, they often end up making really clunky plays to get around it because even if they can counter back, that puts a lot of decks in a spot where they're even more behind on cards than they otherwise would be. Even if you're not dredging very quickly, you're still accumulating card advantage faster than most decks, and pitching two cards from your hand is often a much smaller burden for Dredge than it is for other decks.

I've not been running it for a very long time, but thus far I've found it to be pretty good.

>>51441503

>the general feeling seems to be that ever since Innistrad the Legacy meta has been getting increasingly staler and nowadays it's incredibly difficult to put up consistent results with a non-blue deck.

The Source is great, but be very circumspect about what you read in that thread and the B/R list thread.

Even in a small metagame, it does seem like several specific cards are inordinately important to keep decks afloat and that these cards are warping the metagame. It's also worth pointing out that the elephant in the room—Counterbalance/Sensei's Divine Topdecks—often goes unaddressed by people who go apoplectic about Brainstorm at the drop of a hat. Whether Brainstorm is doing this depends on whether you consider Izzet Delver, Berserk Poison, Show and Tell, and Miracles to be effectively the same deck. They're not.

The argument that you have to play blue in order to do well in Legacy has always been the techy nonsense you'd expect from (often very successful) try-hards. Warts and all, the DtB thread indicates that those people have no idea what they're talking about, and I'm inclined to concur.

>>51445019
I wouldn't go as far as saying you have to play blue to play legacy. And I wouldnt call them all the 'same deck' but most of them defiantly use the same 'core' or 'engine' fetches/brainstorm/FOW/ponder. Lets say 4 brainstorn, 4-8 fetches, 4 FOW, and 2-4 ponder. Minimum thats about 14 of the same cards that get ran in a majority of the decks, max 20. So between 1/6th and 2/6ths of most decks are all the same cards. I can see people getting sick of just seeing the same cards all the time. And even then its like I said, the meta has just become very streamlined. Every playstyle has a 'best deck' now. And some of them have kind of molded into each other like eldrazi and MUD. Its easy to see why people are getting bored and stop playing. A stale meta combined with an increasing price of entry. But thats also combined with a lot of people just net decking and/or playing something something because its good, not because they really like the deck. Its just kind of a sad time to be a legacy player. Espically since a lot of the 'new' stuff in the last couple years has been around control decks or lockout pieces, IE not playing magic.

>>51445989
What's the solution? Ban brainstorm? Ban Chalice? Ban Simian Spirit Guide? Print more hate cards to hate? Play a different format? Suck it up and accept it?

>>51446688
It think that "ban cantrips and/or print more hate" is never the right solution. I think the appropriate solution would be to up the power level of non-blue cards.

But maybe that's not the right solution... I honestly think there is a conceptul flaw with Blue. Drawing cards is one of the most powerful things you can do in MtG, and one color being massively better at it than the others does gives it an inherent advantage. At this point I'm not sure what the right approch would be... Certainly not taking card draw away from Blue... Maybe start giving each color its own form of card advantage? I think that the direction they recently went with Red card advantage (Exile from top) is great and might be the right way of addressing this problem. Maybe each color should have its own way of achieving some form of card advantage indeed. Perhaps the only exception should remain being White (A color that can do almost everything, but has pratically no card advantage. That seems to be one of the axioms of White ever since the beggining. Yet "color that can do almost everything" also seems to fit Blue, but I don't think that was supposed to be the case, it just ended up being that way out of sheer design incompetence).

tl;dr: Wizards doesn't know how to handle Blue.

>>51447465
I agree that white should not rely on card advantage. The whole point of white is fairness.

So I went 3-1 today, not good enough for the savannah or FoW, but still got 3 EMA packs.

>First round bye - meh

>R2 vs. Noble Fish
Game 1 I git probe to see a bunch of fish but no hate, run out some jewelry, he tops nullrod and backs it up with triple cursecatcher. Game 2 I get a turn 2 kill, game 3 I paradox thrice, drawing a total of 20 cards and completely whiff.
>L 1-2

>R3 vs STAX
Game 1 I force his turn 1 null rod and his late lodestone golem, then give him the drills. Game 2 he has strip mine/crucible by turn 2, and a null rod the next turn for the hard lock. Game 3 he has mindbreak trap for my turn 2 tinker into blightsteel, we go huge grind game but I manage to find a yawg will and combo through that.
>W 2-1

>R4 vs Eldrazi&Taxes
Game 1 he goes turn 1 thorn, turn 2 thalia. I flounder a bit then scoop when he finds other thalia. Game 2 I tinker out 1-shot robot turn 3 and it gets there. Game 3 he gets a turn 1 null rod but no pressure, while my opener has both hurkyl's recall and chain of vapor.
A bit later he plays TKS seeing Paradox, YawgWill, Chain of Vapor and Recall. He takes outcome, and I end up cashing in yawg will for 2 extra turns and finally win with mind's desire for 17.

tl;dr this format is 100% insane

>>51444701
Well there's also 4 Ponder. But I might cut the Mongeese for 3 Gitaxian Probe. Basically, I don't need too many Elementals, just enough to tap them out.

>>51448283
I'd love to play Vintage some time, but buying Power is just not justifiable anymore. Thanks for your report in any case.

>>51448667
>i don't need too many elementals
????

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>>51448283
Vintage is the tits. Its also a perfect case study for what Legacy is slowly moving to (in my opinion).

For anyone unfamiliar, Vintage doesn't have a huge swath of deck archetypes like Legacy, It has a handfull of "pillars". These are a bit more broad, but Vintage is weird, and I could write a whole article about the idea, but basically most of the decks under each pillar have a huge % of card overlap.

You've got Blue based control, which covers stuff like Mono U traditional control, Grixis stuff with Dack Fayden, W/U, basically anything that runs a load of counterspells and has a slower gameplan for winning. This feels like where Miracles, Blade decks, and stuff like Shardless are coalescing into, they all play Force, Ponder, Brainstorm, Usually Jace, etc.

Then you've got Storm Combo. Non blue combo isnt too much of a thing, since you have all the regular cantrips plus Recall.

There's the Mishra's Workshop pillar, which revolves around Chalice and Trinishphere effects. Imagine MUD or Eldrazi but your lands tap for 3, plus you run all the Moxen + Lotus. Its nuts.

Null Rod Aggro/Fish decks are stuff like Merfolk or D&T, but lots of Null Rod/Stony Silences to try and force the other decks into fair games.

Then theres Bazzar decks, which for a while has really just meant Dredge. You can tell the dredge players apart by massive cocks, truckloads of charisma, and their supermodel girlfriends. Everyone else is jealous of these guys because they will mull to 1 and still win.

I may be biased.

But regardless, Legacy does feel like its moving towards the same thing, although with less card overlap. I also don't think anything can be really done, it seems theres almost a bell curve to the number of viable decks/size of cardpool. Legacy has his that peak already, and is slowly sliding down the backside as occasional broken or purposefully pushed cards male whole swaths of stuff obsolete. Hell, even Goyf isn't all that good anymore.

>>51448916
I think some cards could safely be unbanned and shake up the format a bit.

>>51447465
Drawing cards is one of the most powerful things you can do in 'any TCG' fify.
>>51446688
There really is no answer to this. At this point its up to the players. Eventually people will either get sick of the current meta and try something different, or stop playing all together. I mean new cards can/will change things up a little bit. But stuff like that is slow for legacy. Combine that with buyouts and wizards taking a more yugioh approach to printing cards, things are looking grim.

>>51448968

UNBAN BALANCE

>>51448667
It was "as many proxies as you want, though we'd appreciate if you own like the commons and uncommons" and just the first event the store held for it. They plan on doing it monthly, just as a fun thing to get people less afraid about the Eternal Formats being "FTK wastelands of no-skill".

>>51448916
I would kind of agree, if not for the fact that Paradoxical Outcome completely changes the face of the Storm deck. It's no longer anything that resembles ANT or similar in any relevant context, it's just slam jewelry, pick it up and slam it again. One of the older players likened it to Upheaval.

>>51447465
Let's see what CA there is for other colors
White
>Cycling
>A few cards that depend on casting things like a Aether Revolt card
Black
>Discard
>Life loss for cards
>Tutors
Red
>Discard then Draw (Faithless looting breaks color pie)
>Impulse drawing
>Punishment effects (Combustible Gearhulk, Browbeat)
>Giving cards Flashback
Green
>Search top cards for Specific cards
>2nd to blue in drawing iirc
>Ramp/Land Tutors

Blue really needs to have it's color pie slice explored more then just counters and Drawing if other colors get what Blue has at it's core. (Prowess became evergreen as they needed to give Blue a more offensive Keyword)

>>51448916
It's been probably 2 years since I've played vintage. Is Oath still a deck?

>>51448968
What are your thoughts on unbans that might actually change things? I think balance, survival, and necro/bargain are very good non-blue cards that could be unbanned that may actually create new decks/ a new meta. Whether or not they are healthy for the format is another question

>>51451668
just off of those, first thing that comes to ind is miricales with balance and a U/G brew of show and tell.

>>51451828
I don't know if miracles would want balance, it seems too situational. Maybe if mystical tutor was also unbanned (which I don't mind). But they already have access to good creature removal (terminus and sword) and they want to keep their land count high. Maybe it would give them hand disruption, but I don't see them dumping their hand fast, and if it's later in the game, again they don't want to lose lands. As for survival, I can definitely see it being paired with show and tell, but even when it was legal I think the best decks were the vengevine decks that won more off of grinding value than combining out.

>>51451439
Its been 2 years since I played too. I havent kept.up, but 2 years isnt too long when it comes to vintage, so I assume so.

>>51451668
Not gonna lie, for the longest time I thought necro was legal in legacy and just figured people had abandoned the deck for being too slow. Didn't realize until about a month ago that it's banned.

>>51451668
To be honest I'll rather not have anything shaken up for the sake of it, FoW and Wasteland exist but even then the fact that they are needed for quite a few decks shows some of the format's problems.

Road bump

>>51450157
>what Blue has at it's core
But that's the problem right there: what Blue has at its core is too powerful. I don't know how to tackle this problem, but as long as it persists Blue will reign in Eternal formats.

>Traded 3 chinamen fakes for 3 ema FoW
Best decision ever

>>51455480
why not just get fake forces then if you wanted forces?

>>51455812
Because he wanted real forces but was too much of a pussy to shell out the $250 it would cost for them, and thinks he's so smug for only paying $5 for them like it's something to be proud of.

People like him give the rest of us a bad name.

>>51456194
I mean, its one thing to not wanna drop a 4 digit number for a pile of cardboard, and showing up to fnm with some duals. But actually trading/selling them as the real thing is just stealing imo.

>>51455812
>Paying 300 for cardboard
>Or paying 10 bucks for cardboard
I imagine i don't have to explain you which is the best decision.

>>51455358
It's too powerful, but it's still Blue's core for a extremely long time, and if other colors get CA on the same level of blue then Blue is going to need something to differentiate itself from Green (which will supposedly get more CA effects)

>>51457231
Blue and Green already differentiate in many aspects, I'm not sure what you're complaining about. It's not like Green would become Blue+ if it received better CA.

>>51457565
Not complaining about anything, just saying that it'll take a good amount of time to give the other colors more CA.

>>51455480
>>51455812
>>51456194

It's really weird, it's not like it's difficult to get Force of Wills. I just offloaded a ton of my extra cards to Card Kingdom and got a playset of FoWs, /and/ a playset of Wastelands purely with Store Credit. The only money I paid was the $7 in shipping out the package.

>>51451439
Oath is definitely real. I run 2 SnT in the main plus two Burning Wish and an extra SnT in the side, along with a single Omniscience tech in the main and Enter the Infinite in the side. Getting Oath countered sucks but dropping Omniscience past a FoW is the bee's bananas.

>>51458608
Back when I played a few years ago I usually played a Maniac Oath/Doomsday hybrid or just straight storm. I don't hear much about Oath these days, everything is Mentor and Shops.

I BOUGHT A TABERNACLE. MP FOR 1350 CANADIAN. I DID IT I FEEL COMPLETE YET SICK WITH MYSELF THAT I JUST SPENT THAT MUCH ON A PIECE OF CARDBOARD

>>51461313

What will you do now, Anon?

>>51461313
Please tell me you're at least playing somethung where you mainboard it, and its not just a sideboard card.

>>51458930
I thought oath got revamped because now it runs the sun titan/ saheeli combo

>>51461722
It did. I don't like it. Griselbrand and Emrakul beats was more fun.

Just started playing D&T. There any secret tech vs Pithing Needle? That thing ruins me.

>>51461722
Interesting. So oath out a sun titan with 2 saheeli in the yard and you get infinite hasty titans? Pretty slick, but it seems potentially weak if you don't get any saheelis. I guess that's why some of the lists run chalice/trinisphere and shit? I feel real out of touch with vintage

>>51463907
Now you know how everyone else feels

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>>51464424

>>51461404
Play Legacy Lands all day erry day
>>51461542
Lands baby

>>51413733
Expedition Verdant Catacombs is the closest thing I ever got. I can't justify spending a quarter of my paycheck on a single piece of cardboard. I think I'd sooner buy a new black Lotus than buy a big boy dual.

Whats a good aggro deck that runs no blue other then Burn?

What do you think of Alpha Investments. I just started watching his videos and he has litterally towers of psa graded duallands/reserved list staples, seems a bit excessive

>>51467272
He just has the money to do that. He owns a store and probably has $250,000 worth of MtG cards

>>51467272
I dont personally watch his vids because I dont have the money to invest in MtG and honestly its probably not worth it to do so unless you already have 100k to invest but I have nothing against people buying expensive cards

Well, showed up to the local and went 2-1 with Charbelcher. Beat Tezzerator and S&T; lost to BReanimator.

Didn't expect that, but I guess mixing it up with decks is proving beneficial. Rolled a die to determine whether it'd be Storm, Charb, or Dredge today. Lost every die-roll. That's how I ended up on Charb. Can't complain.

>>51467632
If you get very good with AnT then thats probably the best deck to play. Just practice heavily.

>>51467776

That's one of the reasons I decided to mix it up. Lack of chances to practice and the fact that everybody in my metagame is onto my shenanigans.

Still think Storm is my favorite deck at this point, but I'm looking to branch out just to keep from getting pegged anymore interpret that how you will. The variance on Dredge last week was appalling.

>>51467272
I don't get how you can invest that much in such an illiquid asset as cardboard

It seems retarded.

>>51467226
>good
>aggro
>in legacy

>>51468273
Low supply w/ a promise to never increase said supply combined with increasing demand.

>>51468372

...are you just not familiar with any of the Stompy archetypes...? Heck there's also Goblins.

>>51467226
There really isn't one. If you are thinking of something like zoo, it is absolute trash and will get stomped by any sort of combo. So aggro decks either need their own combo or some sort of disruption. Delver obviously does this with counter magic and mana denial. Elves is a good deck that can win by beating down with its 1 mana 1/1s but it also has an "I win card". You might consider maverick aggro, in which case that is not a bad option. Aside from that, there is always eldrazi.

As for bad decks, there are most other flavors of stompy (dragon, goblin, white eldrazi). I consider nic fit to be aggro, but that's probably not the style you want. There is also affinity, but that is pretty much just as bad as zoo. Unfortunately, all of these are pretty much worse than any good delver variant.

>>51467226
there realy isint anymore. I guess you could count eldrazi, but its more a 'stompy' deck because it runs things like challice and thorn. Zoo and affinity and decks like that are pretty much dead in legacy now. you either need somthing that stops the other guy from playng magic , or a deck thats so fast that it dosnt give a fuck about what the other guy is doing. Its actually kinda sad cause I really liked decks like zoo and old builds of goblins. But challice kills a lot of speed and wasteland in damn near every deck now kils a lot of efficient mana, epically decks like loam and lands. The meta is just so streamlined now.

>>51467226

BReanimator, Death and Taxes, and Eldrazi are solid options. If "aggro" means "fast decks" to you, Charbelcher is a good candidate, and if you mean "doesn't play Brainstorm, Ponder, or Force" when you say "runs no blue," Poops and Dredge are reasonable options.

So how badly would tinker break Legacy if it were unbanned?

>>51468880
the only deck you mentioned that is actually an aggro deck is eldrazi

>>51467899
>the fact that everybody in my metagame is onto my shenanigans.
IKTFB

I would audible to 4C Delver more often if not for the fact it loses HARD to other creature-based decks.

>>51468995
I think tinker is quite a bit better than show and tell, which already has a tier 1 deck built around it, so it would probably instantly become the best deck in the format

>>51468486
I know the reserved list (and duals) have only ever gone up, but it's just hard for me to rationalize that as an asset over a different asset class that has real liquidity. Of course the duals I do own I will more or less treasure, and it's nice to think they may double in the next ten years and I can eventually flip some cardboard, but I don't have the stomach to commit to the shear volume that some of these prospectors are hoarding.

I know that the point of this thread is that there is still "interest" in eternal formats but I'm highly skeptical of hoarding old cardboard in an age where chinaman fakes get craftier every year

It just seems like a bubble, besides Alpha/Beta cards

>>51469326

It is a bubble. But investors will always try to ride the bubble as long and as hard as they can until it crashes and they move onto the next thing.

The market will eventually crash when demand plummets, either due to fakes or people burning out on the game entirely.

>>51468562
Is that really aggro though? The point of those decks is to hope for a lock turns 1-2 via Blood Moon or Chalic effects, then swing in with a shitty 3 or 4 drop. Thats no more aggro than say D&T, which is constantly refered to as a control deck.

>>51468372
Thats what I was worried about, ill just stick with Burn then
>>51468570
Yeah I sometimes hate that blue is the only color that can effectively stop combo.

>>51466904
>I think I'd sooner buy a new black Lotus than buy a big boy dual.
>a new black lotus
>a new
Are you implying you own one already?
Also, isn't BL significantly more expensive (and useless) than a dual?

>>51467272
>"Alpha" investments
>speculates in a children's cardboard game
Disgraceful.

I am seriously thinking about building Spanish Inquisition. I can afford it over two months if I don't go for Masterpiece Mox/Petals and if I go with Revised Bayous.

Tell me if I should or shouldn't, /TG/.

>>51470883
Black can stop combo to some degree by using targeted discard.

>>51469326
I consider magic cards in the same vein as a new laptop or tv. Luxury items rather than investments. If I want a new laptop and a new legacy deck, i probably need to pick one. I don't plan on getting that money back.

>>51467272
This is the cancer killing magic

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>>51468703
Beated delver with angelstompy.
I LOVE to play with my waifu

>>51470883
Plenty of other colors can stop combo. Chalice, Trinisphere, Thorn, and so on are available to all colors. Death & Taxes ahits ob combo with white, Black discard easily disrupts it. The problem with aggro decks like Zoo was that their goal was to race combo, and turns 1/2 had to be spent dropping creatures, not disruption.

>>51472370
Im fine playing Burn, the decks good and I practice with it a ton. I went undefeated with it last Legacy tournament. I just kinda wish I had another Legacy deck to play but I cant find one im interested in. I dont like control decks at all and except for Painter I dont like most combo decke either. I just want to play aggro, maybe ill play Maverick.

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>>51472511
I always found Maverick boring. It's a deck that just feela like is doing everything it can to not make the matchup feel like Legacy for either side. Your opponent can't do any of the fun stuff he wants to, and you are just trying to go in with 2 cmc 2/2's. If I'm going to play Legacy I want to play Legacy.

I've actually always felt like non combo Dredge builds felt like some kind of backwards super aggro deck. Turn 2 you are swinging in with a 3/1 and a 1/1. Turn 3 you have 3 2/2's and a 3/1, turn 4 you are coming in with 6 2/2's and 2 3/1's, etc. You have this exponential growth of 3/1's and 2/2s's until you deck yourself, but you get to do it while barfing out Cabal Therapies like crazy. Imagine flooding the board like that while having Therapied your opponent 4 times by turn 3. You just arent actually casting all those creatures. Give it a shot.

>>51472169
Your wifu sucks, mine gives way better tentacle jobs. Plus she's got a fat ass. Amd I mean fat. Like twice as fat as all 5 of Projenitus's asses put together.each head has a seperate ass, right?

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I need a new legacy deck to play.

Been playing shardless bug, new trix, turbodepths and some other durdly decks, anyone got any cool suggestions?

>>51472765
4horsemen, but instead of being a shitty troll deck, run the variant that just wins on the first mill.

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>>51472765
Cheerios. Make Kobold Great Again.

>>51472642
But thats the kind of magic I enjoy playing. I want to stop my opponent from being able to play their decks. I like cards like Thalia and Eidolon of the Great Revel which make Brainstorm and Ponder bad. I want to slap down Gaddock Teegs and Thalias, then hear blue players weep as they draw Force of Will, Brainstorm etc.

>>51472917
Ruining people's day is great, nothing wrong with that. I've always just prefered to do it in a way that you cant do outside of Legacy, like locking them out of the game with Enchantress or leaving them.with zero permenants and no hand by turn 5 with Pox.

>>51472642
And no I dont find combo decks fun or literally any deck that runs blue. Probably my favorite cards are Thalia, Gaddock Teeg, Choke, Eidolon of Rhetoric.

>>51472960
Im more a fan of fair magic. So I guess ill build Maverick.

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>>51472642

>>51471216
If you want to lose to force of will you might as well play oops

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>>51474198

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>>51475674

here's what i think of your shitty waifu

>>51472840
>Take a dredge deck
>Replace the dredgers with pieces of 4 horsememe and cantrips
>Add dark rit and some forces
>Turn 2/3 mill out, sac narcomeba for therapy then dread return
Sounds plausible. Like a bad painters stone

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>>51475944
my waifu is beyond the comprehension of mere mortals

So after some more thought, I'm going back to flusterstorm in my sideboard. Im not a huge fan of the card in LED decks but I'd been struggling to reconcile having options for combo and blue decks. Thoughts?

>>51477180
That ANT or TES are much better

>>51477180
No John, YOU are the combo deck

Stop waiting until turn 8 to combo out

>>51477180
Just combo off faster than the other combo deck. not sure what to tell you for blue decks

>>51477180
This is gonna sound mad, but since DDFT can beat almost any storm hate better than TES/ANT, why not just play Chalice or Trini in the sb?

>>51477596
>>51478226
Ddft is about the same seed as ANT, so racing combo mirrors is an option but ANT usually brings in flusterstorms for the mirror match and also for miracles and other blue decks so really im Just mimicking ANT's plan. The thing is DDFT relies a bit more heavily on LED so the flusterstorms felt worse for Ddft than they do for ANT.

>>51478309
That's probably a ltitle too deep for me but could be fun an worth a try if I was in a super combo heavy meta. I'm aiming for a more general meta.

>>51479683
Well if you have a general meta in mind then fluster storm is probably best or spell pierce

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How many Recruiters are you guys running? Craig Wescoe and the Traben University guy both seem to run just 2.

>>51482259
Our guy runs 3 but he also was able to get 3 foils so he feels like he has to. I dont remember any games where he drew the third and wasnt happy about it

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lili just came in. The price was questionable, but it seemed like the seller didnt know what they had. Did I get scammed guys?

>>51484084
I dunno. Put it next to a real card. lets examine that gloss a bit closer. How much did you pay for it?

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>>51484376
Paid a crisp 20$ for it.

>>51484517
Shine the light on it. Like get that bright spot like you have in the first pic but catch it overlapping both cards.

>>51484517
You might also flip them over.

>>51484517
That sounds pretty suspect. I'm thinking you got a fake. The border looks off color.

>>51484618
>>51484632
fucking camera batteries are down. Gonna let them charge and try again when i get back from work tomorrow.
>>51484650
I wondered about that too. I wish I had a scanner. You can tell by the little......color dot...things... right?

>>51484517
Anon, I have the one i pulled from a pack way back when under similar light and your border color is really light and the gloss is much more splotchy. I assume this is a fake but unless I can see them side by side I can't be 100% sure.

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>>51484722
The dot matrix is one way to tell yes. If you know what you're looking for. You can also shine a bright light through it to test how much light passes through. I hear fakes don't let as much through as real cards.

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Here is a fake liliana (I don't have a real one to compare it to obviously)

The glare is obviously different. The fakes also feel much different, they are glossier and thicker. Also like >>51484804 said you can shine a light/your phone's flash through it and there is a noticeable difference

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>>51484517
Here it is without the flash, the most obvious thing to me is the set symbol. Unfortunately I don't have a scanner either

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>>51484517
And here is the back (vs another innistrad card), the fake is on the right. You can tell the difference pretty easily. Did you get it from ebay? If you only paid $20, I am going to guess it is fake. But again, really you can just tell by the feel if you compare it to any real card. If they feel identical, then it might be real and you got lucky.

>>51484650
You can't really go off of just color, because slight variations happen all the time. Hell, sometimes when I am drafting and I get the same card from different packs, freshly opened, one is still a noticeably lighter shade than the other.

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Should I begin buying MTG packs randomly and start collecting cards? Is it worth it?

>>51485409
>Should I begin buying MTG packs randomly
No. Buy singles.

I haven't played since return to Innistrad.

Did D&T change, or how about Infect they're my favorite decks (except burn sometimes)

>>51486946
D&T got new bears in Conspiracy 2. Look up Recruiter of the Guard and Sanctum Prelate.
Infect got a reprint of Berserk, I guess.

>>51486946
Look up recruiter of the guard, palace jailer and consulate prelate.

>>51484517
Its'fake and you got rekt.
Chinamen are the master race now.

>>51484517
Look at the set symbol compared to other innistrad mythics. Its too thick and the black outline is missing from the middle heron.

>>51485409
If you want to get into legacy, definitely don't buy packs. Play on xmage or something. I like that gif a lot. VEry satisfying to watch

>>51401708
Mage ring bully is better for a 2 drop prowess creature, but has to be seen as pesudo removal that sometimes hits face instead of a face beater. It tricks people into making bad blocks because it has to attack every turn.

>>51490972
There was a lot of hype around Abbot of Keral Keep when it was released, thoughts on that?

>>51491769
Its really not that good in any of the decks that would want it. In delvers case its a 2/1 prowess for 2 that will more likely than not just exile the top card of your library. As a creature, storm chaser is better for 2 drop prowess and as CA you have a wide variety of cantrips that dont have you rolling the dice on if it is good or not

>>51468997

Aggro in legacy doesn't work like aggro anywhere else. Very few decks just jam creatures/burn. I'm not a proponent of the tripartite model of deck classification (aggro, control, combo) because it breaks down in the eternal formats. Put it this way: Shardless plays like an aggro deck even though it's not a fast deck by Legacy's standards. The same is true for Mav and D&T. Delvers often don't jam more than one or two creatures and play a slower gameplan than aggro decks can afford to play in any other format, yet people call them aggro decks.

I've thought for a long time that "value" was a better descriptor than "aggro" because it allows for the fact that a lot of those decks don't make T1 aggressive plays, and it also encompasses "midrange," which itself was never a useful classification. So D&T and Eldrazi would both qualify.

>>51472981

Mav is in a pretty rough spot right now. I'd recommend D&T if you like hatebears.

Dusted off Charbelcher last weekend and went 2-1. BReanimator is a bad matchup.

>>51492624
Areally there any decks that have good BR reanimator matchups?

>>51492880
Decks that can stop combo through a thoughtseize and decks with leyline of the void in the side

>>51492956
I mean I know that's what it takes to stop the deck, but even force of will decks dont have much game against the most broken br draws, and that deck gets a lot of broken draws. I just don't like the deck so whatever.

How expensive is angelstompy on mtgo

>>51493309
So you need different answers like chalice or sphere of resistance. Just treat it like the combo deck it is and itll get much easier. The deck doesnt run answers to leyline and holding them off one turn to get hate in is all you need. At least from my limited knowledge from my ahop

>>51493344
Looking at lists from 2012 around 100 tix. Thing is that thats the most recent listing of the deck so I am not sure if the lists are still accurate

>>51493309

It's looking pretty yucky to me, too. Wishing I had two more copies of Badlands...

I think decks with removal and countermagic have game against it; I just think they need to get hands stacked with disruption and—somehow—a means to follow up with a really powerful play.

There's always Poops...

>>51494496
Don't play oops.

Trust me, it feels terrible. Playing 0-land belcher would be an upgrade.

>>51495270
0-land Recross Belcher is fun and bad and i would probably play it if DDFT became non-viable.

What are the best stompy decks these days

>>51493346
>deck doesnt run answers to leyline
>doesn't account for the only hate that can surpass it in speed
Wrong.

>>51495688
Eldrazi is definitely the best, but stompy decks aren't really in a good place right now. Dragon or goblin stompy might be passable for smaller events

Hey everyone, I've only played Commander so far and was thinking about jumping into 60-card constructed,and I really like how 8-rack plays in modern; however, legacy seems like a way more pleasant format, and I would rather play legacy over modern. Is there a way to play Rack Pox/anything with the rack that incorporates a similar playstyle without having to use Liliana, Ensnaring bridge, Chains of Meph or Tabernacle? I'm still in University and don't have that much cash to spend on Mtg.
Thanks for all advice in advance!

>>51495270

I actually find it's at least as good as Belcher—sometimes better because it mulligans really well and you never have to rely on goblins.

Still folds hard to countermagic, but having maindeck disruption is a big bonus.

>>51496234

I think Eldrazi's fine. It's definitely nowhere near as strong as it was six months ago, but it's still among the most viable decks in the format.

>>51496525
Pox actually, it doesnt require Chains. As a forwarning though, its not the best deck out there.

>>51496616
is there any other Mono-B deck with a heavy discard theme?

>>51496946
Not really no. Pox isnt necessarily a bad deck to be honest. You just lose to some pretty common decks.

>>51496525
Yeah senpai if you like pox you can definitely build a budget version without all those expensive cards. Swap lili''s for bottomless pit or necrogen mists. Play more copies of Pox. Thoughtseize and sinkhole are cheaper than ever.

>>51497144
>>51497265
>>51496525

I messed around with Pox about a year ago and I didn't like it. It folds really hard to more than two creatures, and keeping your tempo advantage is actually very difficult. Beating linear and value decks doesn't seem too tough, but non-creature-based combo decks and dedicated control start to cause problems if you don't get far ahead of them quickly. Keep in mind that you won't be able to answer CounterTop, which remains the best two-card combo in the format.

Not saying it's unplayable, but I don't think it's something you can really make go places without at least some portion of the cards you listed (esp. Bridge and Liliana, but quite possibly Tabernac and Chains/Nether Void as well). Overwhelming discard is great against a lot of decks, but it's usually not enough against fast combo unless you're winning the crapshoots, and a lot of decks like AnT can recover quite easily if you can't find grave-hate in a pinch.

>>51498244
the best answer to countertop is a ratchet bomb in the sideboard as it get rids of counterbalance easily and can be jammed t1 with Dark ritual