Adeptus Evangelion Borderline

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Actually, I'm wondering if I can upload it here directly...
We've also got a bunch of resources here https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wX11RS2zRxTKV6lm16MBMOT6_0nSHcKUCFg7eSHQWRE/edit?usp=sharing

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Yay for an AdEva project that's still alive.

Shame about the ill-conceived v3.

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First for best girl.

bumping for interest

kinda lost here

>>51388610
In what way are you lost?

>>51388714
not him, but I'm lost in that I've seen people talk about this game but have faced the barrier of entry that is watching the anime.

what are the strengths of this system?
does it only really work with the setting?

what, as people are fond of asking, is the point?

>>51389146
"Fucked up teenagers use giant cyborgs to stop horrible monsters from destroying the world, all while everything goes to shit around them." is the basic scenario.
The system itself really is made for doing Evangelion-deriviative things (though the specifics are almost always changed, the base scenario above is usually followed).

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>>51389276
I see.

so it doesn't lend itself to adaptation to other settings...damn.

does it handle sanity loss and lots of robot upgrades well?

>>51389330
Loss of upgrades not so much due to any such things being temporary - your eva's arm gets blown off alongside the wing loadouts in the pylon, and while it'll take a bit to repair they're going to staple a new damn arm onto the thing (with those upgrades, because we don't think permanently losing your stuff is a good idea honestly for gameplay reasons)
That said, losing said arm is going to make the pilot a bit more unhinged, what with feeling it as if it were their own arm, and they're just going to have to do it again NEXT time against the NEXT angel...

>>51389419
so it penalizes damage to the hull only temporarily, but it has a permanent penalty to the operator unless the operator has a way to re-hinge themselves...

it actually sounds like it COULD work with Lost Source. LS was supposed to be a Sci-Fi Souls game, so a slow spiral into insanity with successive "deaths"(in the games case, this means being re-built from a backup at the nearest workshop) might be what it needs(assuming AdEva uses a simple enough system for it.)

>>51389505
Also has a possibility of outright death for the pilot if the torso takes too much damage (though it's rare - it's the kind of game where actual PC death doesn't happen that often because you want to weave them into the background plots going on,)
That said, Borderline specifically uses Dark Heresy v1 as a base due to how it started out, so 'simple enough system' isn't exactly the best way to put it. Though at this point it's 'skills and the combat chapter and a few minor other things' that we actually use from DH

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>>51389594
>same engine as Dark Heresy
well SHIT.
same here>>51389330

I guess I'll just go back to figuring out new mods to add to the Lost Source setting

does this game have any interesting or note-worthy weapons/equipment/mods/etc.? that I could miniaturize and slap firmly into Lost Source?

>>51389644
Just download the book and read through it. It's got all kinds of shit.

>>51389741
gonna do that in a bit, was hoping for the cliffs notes cause I'm lazy tonight...

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>>51389644
With great respect for the Borderline team, I feel you should know there is ANOTHER Adeptus Evangelion game out there, which has deviated far enough from Dark Heresy that it may be more to your tastes.

I would suggest looking up BlackMesaJanitor's work, and comparing it to this newest version of Borderline, and using whichever you prefer.

In that spirit, I'm downloading this update to see if it will suit my group better than BMJ's AdEva 3.5 Beta

>>51389965
ah I see
this is an offshoot of the AdEva I have seen others talk about.

do you have an official link to the BMJ official website?

>>51389981
While I'm not sure it's what you're looking for either (it's still entirely based on doing Eva, and while it doesn't use DH's rules it's somewhat close to it still), here's current v3 http://www.mediafire.com/file/o69miv64p6ifc0i/Adeptus+Evangelion+Beta+Draft+005.rar
BMJ doesn't have an 'official website' and in fact stopped working on it due to various reasons.

>>51389965
From what the Reddit tells me, 3.0 v5 is the last thing BMJ did before he quit AdEva for good. Borderline was created due to his, uh, decision to rewrite all of 2.5 himself, and the version of 2.5 that came before is Borderline. Anyways...

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>>51390415
There were differences and quite some drama in the dev circles while producing the next version after v2 (which is bad, don't even go look for it). It eventually led to a split, which created vBorderline and v2.5 simultaneously - they are structurally very similar, but while v2.5 was really something of a half-baked stopgap so that the team (such as it was) could next focus on a brand new system divorced from DH, vBorderline was a more serious attempt at developing the DH-based skeleton.

The end result was that vBorderline got further developed and refined on-and-off by its devs over the years (a lot of emphasis on player options and numerical balance), while BMJ moved on to produce v3. Or the v3 alpha, rather.

I would not recommend anyone use v3. Besides all the problems inherent in being an alpha with only cursory attention paid to balance, it's a large and complicated system that just doesn't seem like it ever knew where it wanted to go, which combined with the self-admitted stress of being almost sole developer for it, I presume is why BMJ decided to drop it.

I think v2.5 is okay if you want a "simpler" system than Borderline, but it also has quite a number of balance issues (mostly in regards to trap options).

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>>51387942

So uhhh... anyone got any more artwork of Eva in a fantasy/medieval setting?

>>51390555
I'd suggest things the other way around honestly - you want either Borderline or v3 (and not 2.5 at all).
v3 DOES have the benefit of being an entirely self-contained system and, while it does have problems, there are some things it went with that ARE just outright better. And while I'm personally not a fan of the direction it went overall fuck weapon breaking FUCK WEAPON BREAKING fuck so many things in the system holy fuck, I'm fully aware that my personal biases are not how everyone else feels.

On the other hand, fuck 2.5 and fuck Elpizo and his ideas that infested it even long after it was gone. Fuck what happened to Skirm, fuck ATT having ridiculous ATS just from using its abilities in a completely straightforward manner, fuck 420zerkerryday, FUCK randomgen, fuck wargauntlet, there is too much WRONG with 2.5 to even list

>>51387942
Why is it that everything an OpsDir does cost some kind of resource?

Pilots only have to worry about ammo (which dont cost surplus) and their non-expendable AT scores.

Also guys, remember that Borderline has an IRC channel over at irc.rizon.net #adevaborderline
We're moderately chill and don't ban people, so don't hesitate to drop by.

>>51390555
>I think v2.5 is okay if you want a "simpler" system than Borderline, but it also has quite a number of balance issues (mostly in regards to trap options).
Don't people generally agree that v3 has its own fair share of trap options? Haven't read the thing since the first public draft, so I can't personally comment. I'm really not a fan of the system and would not use it myself, but it does at least have the advantage of being self contained.

>>51393066
Probably because managing Nerv's assets in combat is a lot more like resource management than piloting an Eva is? Not sure comparing them helps. OD was supposed to get more attention this edition (too much shit requiring resources or being one use is a known problem), but it got held off so we could finally get this release and everything else in it out. OD is a bit lower priority to fix up, since many (or even most) games forgo one.

>>51393141
one way to look at it is that vB was developed by people who could do math with their autistic wizardry

v2.5 and v3 were developed by people who thought you were meant to play the game a certain way and only gave tertiary attention to balance

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>>51388450
Neo-Asuka is shit. SSSHHHIIITTT!!!
RRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>>51393169
>one way to look at it is that vB was developed by people who could do math with their autistic wizardry
You're not wrong. Dial runs damage calculations on all the weapons to make sure they're in shape. I don't think mainline dev has ever done similar.

>>51393169
2.5 had the idea that you should be taxed for using a sword because it was a 'hero weapon'
v3 didn't try to do that...but did anyways for a while when they dropped giving swords blocking abilities for a bit and didn't add anything to them at all and didn't change anything to them to make up the difference, which made them 'axes, but worse'

>>51393066
From the changelog:
-A quick fix. It is not the best, but we thought it better to not take even longer. Please understand.

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>>51393141
I'm a little disappointed to hear that neither latest Borderline or latest BMJ has Operations Director rules. OD was the main thing that my players felt was lacking from BMJ's work, and the biggest draw towards Borderline.

That said, I never felt OD was necessary, so I see this as just making a straight comparison of the piloting game easier.

(Pic related: the first "Theoi" my players engaged in our campaign.)

>>51395022
uh, what? Borderline has OpsDir and has had it for years. It's just not perfect

>>51395022
Borderline DOES have OD rules.
We just didn't give them as thorough a fix as we did the other careers this time around.

>>51393195

She peaked with the EoE fight to be honest. She could never match up to that now.

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>>51393195
She's got a cute hat at least. That's...one point for her!
>>51395169
And now she's been supplanted by New Best Girl!
Totally an AdEva character. Hyped up to be supercompetent, rolls nothing but 90+s all the damn time.

>>51395146
>>51395156
Ah, my misunderstanding, then. I'm very glad to hear it!

>>51390555
>Besides all the problems inherent in being an alpha with only cursory attention paid to balance, it's a large and complicated system that just doesn't seem like it ever knew where it wanted to go, which combined with the self-admitted stress of being almost sole developer for it, I presume is why BMJ decided to drop it.

IMO, BMJ's problem was he went into a death spiral. His dev team dried up, so he took on more responsibility himself, which meant he was on the only one working on drafts, which made his dev team dry up even more until he was the only one left who could work on anything, and he didn't even have a sounding board anymore.

His old team basically stopped playing the game because they lost interest but he didn't have anyone else to listen to. So he kept changing the system chasing after the approval of people who didn't even play the game anymore. And the feedback he did get from other sources wasn't enough.

It got to the point where BMJ would show up and ask for feedback or try to brainstorm stuff and he would get no replies, because no one but him knew the stuff he was talking about.

Its no wonder he burned out. I'm just surprised it took so long.

>>51396329
Doesn't help that BMJ never listened to any of his alpha testers that were selected with the intention of finding GMs who had never run 2.5 to test run v3.

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>>51396659
Wait, really?
He didn't listen to them at all?
I hadn't heard that one (or at least, don't recall hearing that one), what was said there?
>captcha

>>51396825

He'd listen but he wouldn't always do what they said.

BMJ was very much a 'I'm the captain, you're the crew' sort of dev guy. He picked a direction, and what he wanted was help making that vision a reality.

He was pretty open to suggestions on how to improve what he submitted, so long as he liked the suggestion. But getting him to change direction or accept alternatives was like pulling teeth. You could get him to do it, but you probably needed 3 or 4 people to convince him it needed to happen and it wasn't going to be painless.

Sometimes this would mean ignoring solitary dudes that had ideas that didn't mesh with the system. Sometimes that meant him being stubbornly attached to his ideas, good or bad.

>>51396825
I remember a bunch of us had the same experience. We'd report problems to him, usually the same glaring ones. Then he'd see it as a non-issue because said glaring issues were intentional. Or he'd say it was noted and just ignore it.

It got to the point where a player of mine was the one reporting to him, because I couldn't be fucked.

>>51397033

Trust me when I say that was an improvement.

2nd edition turned out like dogshit because he listened to too many people and would let whoever was talking at the time sway his opinions and steer the game. BMJ was stubborn as a mule, but making system changes require multiple yes votes was a good thing.

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>>51396329
I think I was about the only person keenly interested in giving feedback for the system, and was working with another guy on coming up with new elements or overhauling existing mechanics.

But then I got banned because Blast didn't want me in *his* community.

>>51389965
what is that gun? It looks like it uses 3-phase power to launch projectiles.

>>51397627
Fuck if I know, it's some Anima shit. And I doubt it has anything involving '3-phase power', it's a gun with a triple helix wrapped around it

>>51397598

Sorry to hear that, man. We needed more people like you, not less. Bad feedback is what eventually killed BMJ's spirit.

The straw that broke the camels back was something to do with the AT system for v3. I can't remember the specific rule, but something was written in such a way that RAW the mechanic didn't work at all. BMJ asked how this had gone unnoticed for so long, since it was something big and essential to v3's rules, and was told that it was because people simply didn't use that part of the system.

BMJ had a huge meltdown about not being able to trust feedback if people are just ignoring whole mechanics without telling him, and vanished for like a month. I think that's when he realized that v3 was doomed, because he never released another draft and he stopped talking about the OpDir book he was working on.

Eventually he just admitted that he couldn't work on AdEva anymore.

Which is a damn shame, because I was actually looking forward to that OpDir book.

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>>51392642
>I'd suggest things the other way around honestly - you want either Borderline or v3 (and not 2.5 at all).
>v3 DOES have the benefit of being an entirely self-contained system and, while it does have problems, there are some things it went with that ARE just outright better. And while I'm personally not a fan of the direction it went overall, I'm fully aware that my personal biases are not how everyone else feels.

No, v3 is trash.

- There is no balance. BMJ never had a head for numbers; there was no crunching done on any values in the drafts, only eyeballing to what felt right with less and less playtesting as things went along.
- Character building is aimless. Because of the sheer number of options available (which are, as mentioned above, unbalanced), a player who doesn't know what they're doing will end up useless. 2.5 has trap options, abilities or equipment that just aren't good, but v3 is on another level of letting you spend your XP on useless crap. And both share crippling character trait options, as many were imported from 2.5, so that's not a distinguishing factor.
- The bookkeeping required to run combat is atrocious, and increases exponentially with how many players you've got. The interval system was just a plainly ill-conceived solution to the "reaction" problem, which is stupid considering there was an already built-in mechanism for handling automatic reactions to player actions, and efforts to go mapless comically still forced some kind of map or tracker or people would get lost.

There were some improvements on the way the pilots themselves are handled off evas, but the system has so many holes that GMs have to houserule half of it to make that part of the game functional anyway, so there's zero net gain over DH-based implementations.

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>>51397917
What was it, just when the hell you're supposed to regain ATP, at the start of turns or rounds? (plus there was other shit about at which step of intervals regaining and maintaining and spending ATP happens)

I wasn't around, but if it's that, I had pointed it out ages before.

>>51398011

I though Intervals were a cool idea, but they came in too late to the party. Intervals were a solution that he came up with after most of the system had already been built, so it just exploded all of the already clunky decisions present. If Intervals had been in from the start, maybe it could have been done more seamlessly.

He did have a couple good ideas, though. I actually really like the whole damage pool/critical moment/soft damage thing. It let you design angels that could no-sell attacks in the short term without completely wasting the players time because they were still contributing to its eventual downfall.

>>51398258
Biggest problem with intervals was that they were tested with the Angels targetting different things each round...but in practice an Angel stuck in melee was going to murderrape whoever it was next to, repeatedly. And the thought that people would DO that didn't come up beforehand. Which lead to melee stuff getting buffed up more, which lead to gunstuff being too weak in comparison, which lead to a whole mess of other shit going on, and then more sweeping changes.
I'm not sure if the death spiral effect of one eva going down but the angel keeping the interval it got from that eva was ever fixed, either. It was still there last I checked, but it might've changed past that.

>>51398258
Yeah, damage pool was a good concept. If intervals came late in development I can see why it was such a mess of a mechanic. Again, I find it strange because the AoO mechanic is right there in the book, which is supposed to be how you deal with the big time lapse of players all taking their respective turns, but instead went underutilized - just a way to punish the party in very narrow circumstances.

>>51398923
It got changed so angels lost their intervals as evas went down. Kept the wonkiness that a well-built PC was probably a better match against a given angel than deploying a whole party.

So did anyone actually play either this edition or the 3.0 for any extended period of time?

>>51399384
I've been playing Borderline for a long, long time.

>>51399190

AoOs were easy for GMs to forget since they were conditional, and a lot of the time the just never came up or came up too often. It didn't appreciably impact combat as a balancing mechanic unless you chose something that would trigger constantly.

And the AoO triggers that's came up frequently were pretty few, and picking them every time felt samey and cheap.

>>51399800
Could've been fixed by giving every angel one AoO from a list of decently common things, then they can take ones from the more conditional stuff - that way it's a given that SOMETHING is going to be giving them an extra thing to do from a small variety of things. Less samey if it's a default thing Angels have.

>>51399925
3.05 Angel-gen gives every Angel some points to spend on Opportunity Attacks from a list, and there are ways to get more points.

>>51400334
Yes, but that's on top of intervals, isn't it?
I was talking about a way to help with the action economy problem WITHOUT just outright giving the angel a number of actions equal to the PCs.

>>51399800
I meant that the mechanic was there and could be fleshed out - make angels operate more out of following the rules of their AoOs than from what actions they took on their turns.

But as with many things, while the concept was there the implementation was halfassed so there was little reason to use it off-the-shelf.

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>>51402906
Even fits something like Ramiel perfectly. 'AoO for being within X distance'. Could make things for the others as well, probably.

Though I'm curious - have you (or anyone else for that matter) taken a look at Borderline's angelgen yet? Any thoughts on that?

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>>51388450
But you forgot REAL best girl

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>>51405177
two can play this game

Let's be honest for a moment here - can I just run an Eva-style game in a different, less crunchy system? Is there anything that'd really be wrong with that?

>>51405331
If you can figure out something that works for you, yes, of course.
Thing is, Eva wants to have brutal, gorey combats that nevertheless leave the players alive (but not necessarily well) afterwards, while ALSO having a whole bunch of stuff that is completely unrelated to giant fightan robutts, ranging from 'general slice of life' to 'trying to actually do stuff about the conspiracy', so trying to do all of that gets....weird.
Being stuck with DH in Borderline's case doesn't help worth a damn, but that's what we have, and it would be easier to start from scratch than to try swapping to anything else.

>>51405435
>Thing is, Eva wants to have brutal, gorey combats that nevertheless leave the players alive (but not necessarily well) afterwards,
Yeah, but in practice Evas become unkillable god-machines and you end up relying on pure fiatium to maintain the illusion of threats.

>>51405464
Obviously when I say that I refer to situations wherein their stats mean they barely so much as get a scratch on a high-power high-level angel ability before they even use their AT field to mitigate that damage.

>>51405464
Thus why Borderline Angelgen states gives notes on how everything works together and is intended to make Angels nasty as well.
Also, giving things NOTHING but single-target, single attacks when it's 1v4 is a recipe for disaster no matter how strong that one attack is - when I ran my game I tended to give every enemy some form of AoE or multiattack, even if it wasn't their primary attack form. They wouldn't necessarily solotarget someone, but I'd do things like give something Swift Attack and have them use it to swing at two different players, or ranged attacks that struck everything in a line.

>>51405692
Oh no, that's basically what I did. Nothing but line attacks. Barely did anything at all to 'em. Though this was with V3

>>51405731
With what I did, I killed the manu twice (they got better), defeated a few of the others, tanged the prodigy and an npc skirm, and never fucking touched the goddamn berserker because the dicebot was in love with her.

>>51405331
Run bliss stage.

>>51410737
Obviously they should run Fate or Gurps because everyone wants to use those for everything. Or D&D.

What changes have actually happened to AngelGen over the past like, year?
What's actually changed, broad strokes

Looking through the changelog tells me little, because it's all written in a way so as to be relative to the old version, and it's been two years since I played 1.2

>>51412412
To Angelgen specifically since it was put up in the IRC channel?
I will be completely honest, I have not kept track of any changes there myself. It's now actually in the PDF instead of on a slow-loading googledoc, and bookmarked, but I have literally no idea about the changes it's gone through because I wasn't the one doing those.

To the rest of the stuff, we added a shitload of talents to all pilot careers, rejiggered weapons and traits, made the patch talents that are only there to correct some annoying things from DH free at chargen, and completely redid how Berserking works, plus added an entirely new angel crit chart. OD is only minorly changed because we wanted to get something out instead of taking even longer, especially with the dread Eye Arr Ell looming over us ready to strike at any moment.

>>51412815
>Redid Berserking
I always did find Berserking to not have much of an impact in vB, that was one thing I liked in v3. It felt like it mattered when the EVA went Berserk.

Also one of you guys should really start using LaTeX or something for this, who writes the actual document? Not having hyperlinks for the Talents always bugged me enough that I added them manually for 1.2, but that's really ugly, bad and time-consuming compared to just compiling it properly in LaTeX.

I also added all the Dark Heresy references, which is why I never shared the PDF. Didn't want to draw the ire of the GW autists

>>51413023
>I always did find Berserking to not have much of an impact in vB, that was one thing I liked in v3. It felt like it mattered when the EVA went Berserk.
Isn't that the system where you choose to berserk (at a price), and then you more or less just kill the angel?

Making it something you can use reliably for a guaranteed win (at a price, yes).

>>51413292
Yeah basically.

You barter with your GM and plead for him to let you survive the encounter, at the cost of that survival (and to survive, you must be victorious) coming through the form of a Berserking EVA

I don't remember how it worked in practice, but I liked the idea of being able to cry uncle and let all Ragnarok loose through that act of submission

Yeah, you admit that you failed, but you still get to feel like you're a fucking monster kicking names and taking ass

Again, I don't remember if it actually worked that way, but I liked the principle

>>51413375
Don't like that idea personally, because it DOESN'T feel like you're kicking ass. It feels more like 'the GM took pity on you and made the enemy fall over dead, but you get to describe it as part of the pity package' and all YOU are really doing is saying 'I would rather pay X penalty than have the game end'

>>51413433
>>51413375
Even putting ass kicking aside, 'guaranteed win' is extremely anticlimactic. Never mind there being a 100% chance you can berserk whenever you want to. Berserk, by its very nature, shouldn't be something you can completely rely upon. Granted, Please Moves exist, but they're a lot more limited in nature and are largely a compromise not to make the thing 100% RNG.

> 'I would rather pay X penalty than have the game end'
And there are a whole lot of other ways that a losing Angel fight can play out, too. Making 'you berserk and win' the standard really takes away from situations like
>we have to pull back and repair the evas to try for round 2
>pull out, N2 spam and devise a new strategy while it regenerates
>you're fighting in some location that isn't it knocking on the Geofront, and it wins, making things worse for you but not losing the game instantly
>fuckit use the Lance

So it doesn't sound like v3 style Berserking is something we'd ever want in Borderline.

>>51413536

Its not quite that simple. I never played the most recent draft of V3, but from what I remember, anyone at the table can veto a berserk. Any player, or the GM. So you can't do it if the GM isn't on board, or if anyone at the table still thinks they have a shot of winning this themselves or isn't down with ending the fight that way.

On top of that, I remember there being a severity mechanic that was used to figure out how much of a price you would pay, but also served as a goalpost for if you could berserk at all. So if you lost the fight too early or if you had too many Evas left standing, berserking was still off the table.

None of my players ever saw V3 berserk as a reliable option. Just as a safety net they hoped never to have to use. Mechanically, its exactly like using the lance or dropping so many N2 mines the angel dies from it: you win the fight but at a terrible cost you should have avoided. The only difference is calling it berserking and fluffing it in a cool way.

>>51413536
I don't see why you can't use the mechanical side of berserking but fluff it the way you just did. Sounds like a basic house rule fix to me.

>>51413856
Downloaded the most recent pdf just to check:
>For an Evangelion to Berserk, two things have to be true: both the GM and the players have to agree that the battle has reached a point where victory for the players is unlikely, and the GM and a single specific player must agree to bring Berserk into play. If a GM refuses to allow a Berserk to happen for whatever reason, it cannot be forced by the players. Likewise, a single player cannot conspire to Berserk with the GM if the rest of the pilots consider the battle to still be winnable.
So the only thing that can stop it is another player or the GM going 'nuh uh'. It might be less guaranteed if people can veto it, but it's still a meta 'okay we win now' agreement. Doesn't change that much.

>Mechanically, its exactly like using the lance or dropping so many N2 mines the angel dies from it
It's not at all like the examples I listed. Out of those, the only one that outright kills the Angel is 'fuck it use the Lance'. The others are different, and set up different things in the future. A lot of the point beyond me listing these examples is that they play out differently than 'pay a price, angel dies'.

>>51413375
It's more like, if everyone dies in the battle, you roll on a couple of charts, take the worst possible ending to the fight, but the Angel is killed.

Depending on how bad you do, the pilot in the Berserking Eva can be killed - Like, if the Angel's near full health and everyone's been aced, the Berserk will probably kill the pilot and/or someone's loved one, you'll get a catastrophic damage which will probably blow up parts of your city and reduce your points for the next fight, and hopefully there'll be a half-dozen sessions of how badly you fucked up.

It's a little bit closer to how it worked in the show, but it's also a bit more un-fun. Berserk, basically, is a lose condition, rather than a gameplay feature to be messed with. That's because the actual lose condition ends the world, and therefore the campaign, which isn't fun for anyone unless you really like blowing up planets.

I'm having a hard time imagining anyone playing a straight NGE campaign with vB when the system lends itself to tacticool fightan and there's so many creative ways of killing Angels, but little to enforce the feeling of being way in over your head, and being, at heart, an incompetent little child who's gotten too big for his breeches

>>51413970
Because, in all honesty, berserking is COOL. And it (shouldn't) happen very often in any system. So if you replace Cutscene Victory Berserk with Cutscene Victory Lance or Cutscene Victory Giganuking you end up losing what may be one of your few chances to HAVE that cool fluff.
And the ones that are 'retreat for Round 2' also require you pull it off early enough and the GM is willing to actually DO that while also having the fight be in a position for that to be possible

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>>51414038
> which isn't fun for anyone unless you really like blowing up planets.

Like most of BMJs ideas V3 berserk is sorta cool but ultimately unrefined.

Moving berserking out of the players control as a combat option and character archetype was a great move. Making it a risky fallback option for emergencies was a good idea. Making it a narrative fight-ender, however, is sort of lame.

It should have been a running tab. So once you start the berserk, you start accruing debt. You can gain more and more bullshit effects on a dime mid-berserk, but every time you do you rank up more debt. And at the end, all the debt comes due and bad shit happens.

So if all you do with a berserk is wake up and ignore power requirements and then you finish off the angel with normal attacks, its much different from using berserk to regrow an arm and punch the angel so hard the One Punch Man opening starts playing. Berserking is still a bad thing, but the player never actually gives up control of the fight and if they try to waffle in the middle they leave themselves open to berserking but still losing the fight because they didn't go double or nothing.

>>51414692
That DOES sound like a more interesting way of doing it, honestly. Keeps player agency (and leaves the possibility for berserking in and of itself NOT being enough, such as what happened during End)
Speaking of which, something using that style would probably have a hefty penalty for dying AGAIN when berserking, I'm guessing.

>>51415105

I don think it even needs that. Just say that if you die, you still have to pay off the debt, but the prices have to have legal targets.

So if you died mid berserk, you can't blow all your prices on give yourself insanity and drawbacks. You have to pick the stuff like an NPC dying, or your team mates getting insanity, or an Eva going into the next fight damaged.

I would even be tempted to say that if you die, your debt gets halved but you have to pay off the rest. A PC is dead-dead. Thats usually about as bad as you want things to get in a single fight unless you are in the final session. No need to punish them twice for one failure.

>>51415298
I meant more as in 'you still rack up the consequences you earned and your eva's out of the next fight' which...is a damn big penalty, even if the GM builds the next angel with the lesser number of players in mind because it means the zerking player can't do something that fight.

What would /tg/ summarize as the greatest problems in v3, I sort of like it, but it's sadly unrefined and unfinished with too many flaws.

>>51414467
Do you wanna kill a planet?

>>51416163
"Several good ideas, horrible horrible implementations of those ideas"

>>51414037
That application of Berserk is better because it's much more in-line with how the TV series approaches Berserk.

>>51414090
>Because, in all honesty, berserking is COOL
Hell no.

>>51416843
From an out of game perspective it is.
Ingame, yeah, it's fucked up and horrible, but we are not the characters, now are we?
Hell, think about the series proper. The scenes where 01 berserks are cool in that wonderfully messed up way.

I never intended to imply it was supposed to be cool in character or anything. Or something that should happen frequently, ever.

>>51416163

Its too cumbersome. There are just too many mechanics to keep track of. It could do with a simplification, cutting out what doesn't work so what does has a chance to shine.

It needs actual balancing by someone who has a head for numbers.

And it needs much, much more playtesting.

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>>51416163
I did a bit of that here >>51398011

- Vague and poorly implemented skill resolution rules.
- Schizophrenic skill advancement.
- Rules that force roleplaying in specific ways to get mechanical bonuses.
- Lack of balance.
- Overly complex character advancement track.
- Complex enemy design rules with no guidance.
- Dozens of talents or abilities that are never used or simply don't work RAW.
- Cumbersome combat engine with many fiddly pieces:
- Turn tracking that's a bookkeeping nightmare.
- Presenting itself as requiring no map for combat, while requiring a map for combat.
- Unreasonably limiting movement/action/power rules.

>>51416918
No, it was pretty fucking scary. I remember being horrified of it when I was a youngling. After a long, long while of it, yeah, I think things like it bursting out of Leliel's shadow and breaking physics over its knee are cool as fuck, but this stupid asinine philosophy where you're at odds OOC vs IC is -exactly- the kind of thing BMJ described back when he talked about changing Berserk, and frankly, I agree with him 100% there and Berserk should be firmly out of the player's control and has absolutely no business whatsoever being something purposefully accessible to them.

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>>51418265
>Vague and poorly implemented skill resolution rules.
>Schizophrenic skill advancement.
I fucking hear you, I had to read them several times to get the hang of them.

> Rules that force roleplaying in specific ways to get mechanical bonuses.
I actually liked that, Aspects are a wonderful way to get people to roleplay their characters instead of trying to play homo economicus simulator.

>Lack of balance.
This is referring to the fuckup that is melee vs ranged right? (Amongst other things, such as the hilarity of power armor combinations)

>Overly complex character advancement track.
I'll freely admit that I prefer it to the class system and found it pretty simple on first try.

> Complex enemy design rules with no guidance.
Angelgen could use work yeah.

>Dozens of talents or abilities that are never used or simply don't work RAW.
Yeah, I agree here; some of them could really use some work.

>Cumbersome combat engine with many fiddly pieces:
Turn tracking that's a bookkeeping nightmare.
I really like the Stamina system and Intervals in principle, but in practice they sort of hurt.

> Presenting itself as requiring no map for combat, while requiring a map for combat.

Well, it *sort* of doesn't need a traditional map, so it's technically correct; which is after all, the best kind of correct.

>Unreasonably limiting movement/action/power rules.
This one, I'd like some explanation on actually.

>>51418265
Could you do the same for Borderline, by any chance, beyond 'uses DH' which is kind of a given major flaw?

>>51420319
He's too self-absorbed to realize that
>uses DH
is a major flaw.
Seriously, the dude goes on a tirade against V3 whenever it shows up.

>>51420319
Not that guy, but separate HP and armor totals for each limb is an absolutely awful pain in the ass and I don't know why they insisted on retaining that garbage in the new Borderline edition.

You know, if BMJ was so upset about people not providing any sort of useful criticism, maybe he should've made more Eva threads on tg. I feel like we've had a lot more discussion here in this one thread than I've ever seen occur in an entire week's time on the IRC channels.

>>51421777
It's to enable you to lose limbs and keep fighting, without being on death's door everywhere else at the same time, while also allowing you to do the same to Angels without them being massive slogfests of wounds (which, again, suddenly start exploding when touched). I suppose the armor values for the Evas could be equalized, though things like Shields would still make some parts have higher AP.
And, honestly, literally nobody's said anything about it before. Not once has it ever been brought up as a problem, at least not anywhere that I've seen.

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>>51420319
Borderline is less obvious, and most of the problems come from indeed using DH as a base, followed by being a sequel to AdEva v2.

Regarding the second factor, it hammers the ideas into functionality, but some changes there would require full revamps, which is beyond the scope of what the dev team is currently aiming for (already, OD is getting a revamp). Taking this into consideration, I think the worst I have to say is that I don't like the new berserk system in the latest version - a lot of things to keep track of just to make it something that will trigger less often.

The first factor is much the same. There the response has been "if we changed any more of how we used DH, we might as well trash the system and come up with a new one from scratch", which again is beyond the scope of their current work.

As for how DH is problematic for this kind of game, the quick and dirty is the way it handles skills, the critical damage (p. in regard to p-scale) and trauma/insanity tracks not meant for the way they're used, the reliance on reactions as a defense mechanism, how some combat bonuses are calculated as well as restrictions, called shots (fuck), the granularity of ranges, and how initiative and the turn order play out in the context of 3-5 players facing a lone enemy.

>>51405331
I wrote rules to run it in FATE once.

It's good to see there's finally Angelgen in Borderline, though I really wish that it had shed it's older DH roots at this point. Then again, that's part of the reason I worked a ton on v3 before I disappeared off the face of the earth. Still, glad to see that ultimately AdEva is still continuing!

Coming back to BMJ gone means that the new OD I was working on is now moot, I suppose. A shame, really, but I guess that's life.

>>51422127
Shedding DH means literally rebalancing EVERYTHING.
It would take just as much effort to make a completely new system from scratch that FEELS closer to Eva as it would to keep Borderline going but shed DH.

>>51422433
>Shedding DH means literally rebalancing EVERYTHING.
And?
And?

>>51422687
And look at how that went for v3.

>>51422989
Just because it didn't work out once under very specific circumstances doesn't mean you have to use that as the gold standard to never bother again.

>>51422433

I mostly mean just replicating more or less replicating the core rules for ease of effort, even if it means changing the names on certain things to avoid that copyright infringement that is never coming. Especially since I believe Borderline uses a ton of errata for DH as the baseline, which is yet another reference.

>>51423173
Borderline doesn't use DH errata.

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>>51423465

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>>51423465
Borderline EXPLICITLY uses the Dark Heresy errata and includes a link to the errata, both on the second page of the PDF.
And the resources page linked in the second post of the page has a link to a googledoc version of the errata that's JUST what's relevant for Borderline.
What it DOESN'T use is Dark Heresy Version 2.

>>51423524
>>51423536
So why should I bother touching Borderline again?

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>>51421840
Man, I can't even enter the IRC channel and I really want to make v3 work mechanically so I'll need to take criticism from somewhere and this seems to honestly be objectively the best place.

>>51423591
>I can't even enter the IRC channel
What the hell did you do?

>I really want to make v3 work mechanically
Did you just staple a ton of things onto it?

>>51423609
>What the hell did you do?
Everything technological breaks down when I touch them, IRC just crashes my computer when I open it, presumably this is punishment for my hubris for keeping my computer alive for too many years and I'm too tired to fix it or just use another computer.

>Did you just staple a ton of things onto it?
That's just band-aid anon-kun, if I must I will tear out every mechanical widget and rebalance them individually.

>>51423640
Dang. Try googling up a fix, or see if a web client would work.

Frankly speaking, AdEva has a fundamental flaw in its very base - DH isn't exactly a very good system for simulating Eva.

>>51423560
Because we actually care about the project. We listen to feedback, and to what people say. And though we can't always do what they want, we explain why we won't or can't when such happens.
A lot of what 1.3 IS is based on feedback from people, combined with HARD MATH to get everything balanced as best as possible. It's not perfect. We never claimed it was. But it's fun.

Yes, it uses DH, because the project started with DH, when we were originally tasked with making 2.5 it was to be based on DH, when the 2.5/Borderline split happened our material (aka the entire reason we did anything at all) was based on DH, and at this point everything is carefully balanced on fucking DH. We've actually been removing as many lookups to DH as possible even, lately.

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>>51423672
>Dang. Try googling up a fix, or see if a web client would work.
To be honest, unless something incredibly insightful gets said on the AdEva channel, I'm not particularly inclined to, no. I mean, that's work, when I could just continue doing fine without.

>Frankly speaking, AdEva has a fundamental flaw in its very base - DH isn't exactly a very good system for simulating Eva.
To be frank, this is what drives me to try and make v3 work; I would rather unfuck the mess that is v3 by tearing it apart and putting it back together step by step than I'm willing to fucking touch the trainwreck that is Dark Heresy.

>>51423713
I'd have to second this, until I or someone else gets v3 to work, it really is the best option there is; the team pays attention to it and do good work to unfuck what they have to work with, while listening to feedback and are generally just nice people. It's better than having to put band-aid after band-aid on v3 to get the fucking thing to not commit violent suicide once you get properly started and at least most of the things fucking actually work as they're supposed to instead of technically not working by their own system.

Okay, so from my experience, here's a few issues I've run into with 3.0. I don't know if these are all problems with the system; a few might just be the munchkiny people I'm playing with, but here goes.

Aspects: Really easy to game the system if you're a halfway adequate roleplayer. Just pick some character trait of your pilot that's bound to come up fairly often, and rake in a small mountain of free Luck points every session. I know not everyone who plays is going to have been roleplaying all their lives, and this is there to encourage those people to do more, but eh.

Grappling: Our Neo-Spartan grappler (with an Assault Evangelion) rolls under 111 to initiate grapple, and rolls under 91 to maintain the grapple (granted, it's an Opposed Test, but you know what I mean), making it terribly easy for her to stunlock Angels and then use Hold Still to set them up for our Manu to do massive damage with a massive battleaxe.

AT Powers: Compared to the 4d10 Great Positron Codpiece, the big ol' axes and thunder hammers our Manu Assault wields, and our pink haired anime suplex princess, the team's poor AT wizard is feeling remarkably underwhelming in this edition. There just doesn't seem to be as much for him to do.

Hide: I haven't playtested this one yet, but just from a preliminary glance at the numbers, combining it with Stealth Field seems like a fantastic way to never get shot if you pump enough Enrichment into stealth. I'm surprised Ambush only works with melee weapons and not ranged attacks, but I guess it'd probably too strong that way.

Negotiation: Why is this a Restricted skill? Of all the Empathy-based skills, why this? I'm sure there's a good reason for it, but I'm just not seeing it.

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>>51424523
>Aspects
This is why there is a Luck cap, I suspect; however I think that this is most easily solved by reworking that system to something more in line with Vices and Virtues from nWoD and putting a cap and more specific circumstances on what exactly gives you Luck.

>Grappling
Oh man, what? That's hilarious, looking at Assault and some of the Talents I can see how this problem arose. This is fairly simple and just requires extensive cross-balancing and relentless number-crushing.

>AT Powers
Yes, I had run into that problem as well, AT Powers don't seem to be very powerful and the utility abilities are often underwhelming.

>Hide
I have experience with this one, and it is exactly as crazy as you expect, our sniper hasn't been hit once and we're three angel fights in lol.

>Negotiation
Man, the entire skill system needs to be reworked from the ground up.

>>51397598
Blast is a walking trashfire of a human being.

t. someone who once every few years still gets a message from him calling me something antagonistic

>>51405331
Battle Century G is a decent enough framework. It was made by a few guys that split off AdEva at some point.

FATE is also good too, if only because you can craft what you need out of whole cloth. Truth be told there are a lot of Mech RPGs out there but not a lot of them have as wild corruption effects as AdEva variants, although, again, BCG does a pretty good job overall I think.

>>51425271
> Battle Century G is a decent enough framework. It was made by a few guys that split off AdEva at some point.
> Battle Century G
> Borderline
> Mobile Suit Mechnicus
> Dungeons: The Dragoning

Jesus. Was AdEva literally Gainax? So many other games and devs have split off from it to go make their own thing.

>>51423714
>Willing to waste time fixing v3, but can't get IRC of all things, the least complicated chat protocol in the world, to work

>>51423560
How in the everloving fuck is the usage of errata a bad thing for you?

>>51390555
Personally as someone who has played a fair bit of Borderline that I actually like V3 better.

Borderline is 2.5 but better. However V3 does have a lot of benefits that come from abandoning Dark Hersey as a base.

I am sad to hear that it is not getting further development because the balance issues are definitely there.

>>51390849
I'd like to see some of this as well since I am about to head into such a campaign.

>>51426067
The only thing I can figure is 'if it takes more effort that the absolute minimum, than it isn't worth my time'
>>51425821
If the shoe fits...

>>51423536
Wait, so to play Borderline not only do you need both the huge-ass borderline PDF and the train-wreck that is the Dark Heresy system. You also need to make sure you are fully up to date on the Dark Heresy errata?

fuck man...

At least use one of the newer and slightly less shit 40k systems.

>>51426041
>Willing to waste time fixing v3
He has a better chance with that than the Borderline devs do wasting time trying to fix Dark Heresy.

> hear that V3 is dead
> sad_frog.jpg
> go to check the reddit one last time
> Passing The Torch

Holy shit. BMJ put up a download for all of the work docs for AdEva. He actually did it, the absolute madman.

V3 doesn't have to be dead.

>>51426655
>V3 doesn't have to be dead.
I want to believe.

>>51426432
Unfortunately, we can't tell if someone is using the first printing or later printings of Dark Heresy v1 - and there IS a difference between the two - so we have to assume SOME amount of errata is in use anyways, so might as well use the most current one to prevent any kind of misunderstandings (plus most of what's applicable is weapon traits and how various combat stuff actually interacts with one another)
As for why we don't swap to a newer system, there would be no point. It would take just as long to rebalance everything else as it would be to rework the entire thing from the ground-up to actually be something more Eva-like. Which would be a good thing (and far preferred to either swapping to a new DH base or making a ripoff DH), but a fuckload of effort to do - and thus takes quite a bit of time and energy. And there's this quite inconvenient thing known as Real Life that makes both of those things in far shorter supply than we'd like, especially for working on a project like this.
The funny thing about this is? Way back when, before v3 was a thing in any form, it was suggested that The Next Version of AdEva be swapped to the then-current 40k RPG (Black Crusade, IIRC), but BMJ said no because it was best to stick with DH. And now there's been so much work put into the DH version that it really is too far in to go back.

>>51426518
my point was that you'd have to be a fucking idiot to be incapable of getting IRC to work

>>51426432
>Borderline PDF
>"hugeass"
vB is anemic as fuck, do you have the attention span of a gopher?

I have fucking ADHD and I'm not this hopeless at reading a tiny fucking PDF

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>>51426041
I am truly a beast of contradictions.

More seriously, it's because I don't see any specific appeal on IRC that I can't get elsewhere with less work, I have a head for systems and mechanics because I have legal training and finding my way through overcomplicated systems with years of history literally is what I do for a living but fuck me I'm a retard with crack in his ass and also running with scissors when I'm near a computer.

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>>51426655
>>51426746
Heh, we're already a team working on it out of a desire to actually see the damn thing work. Because it's a shame to see it filled with so many splendid and wonderful ideas that were just squandered because one man was driven tired by having to keep it up alone (and also questionable design practices such as refusing to listen to feedback some times, whereas we absolutely will be listening to feedback if we want this shit to work).

>>51427291

Wow, that's awesome.

Its probably too early to solid answers, but roughly what are your plans? Are you polishing what BMJ left behind, or rebuilding from scratch so you can port over the good and excise the bad?

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>>51427426
>Wow, that's awesome.
We will try not to disappoint!

>Its probably too early to solid answers, but roughly what are your plans?
We're expecting to be done with ironing out our design goals today and will move into system design later. We also hope to learn from the past and not fall into the same traps as BMJ, feedback is fucking critical to this work and we must do all we can to make it as good as possible, though we can, of course not promise you the world; we are only human in the end.

But we will try to be as open towards the community and it's gathered experience as possible, such a valuable source of data would be idiotic to throw away.

>Are you polishing what BMJ left behind, or rebuilding from scratch so you can port over the good and excise the bad?
We would rather tear it apart so the good can be salvaged and the bad can be cast away and replaced.

>>51426860
sunk cost fallacy, motherfucker

>>51427220
computers are literally (literally) just simplified logical systems

also, IRC is by far the easiest and fastest way to chat safely, privately and hassle-free.

Why is everyone in this thread Ramiel-posting though.
Post non-platonic angels i.e. ones to whom you'd do lewd things

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>>51427644
>computers are literally (literally) just simplified logical systems

But I can't legalese my way out of computers, anon-kun! :C

>Why is everyone in this thread Ramiel-posting though.

Man, that's just me, Ramiel is 10/10 the hottest Angel.

>>51427741
Look up "literate programming"and you, too, can legalese your way out of computational logic

Out of curiosity, what was the reason for DH as the underlying system in the first place? Adapting something like Aegis Project, Mechwarrior or whatever wasn't an option?

Also, is the awesome description of AT fields in AdEva3 as controlling the local reality (which from what I understand is not canon) also something that's in Borderline canon?

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>>51427950
You have brought me salvation from darkness, anon-kun.

I am at your mercy.

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>>51423713
I'm genuinely trying to read through the new Borderline book, so I can give some constructive feedback and comparisons with BMJ's 3.05, but I keep catching double shifts.

Also learning Dark Heresy.

If this thread is still around come the weekend, I'll try to share my thoughts.

>>51428126
IIRC, gorey crit tables and an insanity system already in place.
And DH being The New Hotness (at the time) likely helped

>>51428265
Thank you. Hopefully it'll be still up, if not we're always around in the IRC channel on the first page of the book.

>>51387942
I'm glad you guys are still around.
We played four campaigns with this, until I got so fed up with everything about AdEva that we just homebrewed our own game, but I'm glad the project is still rolling.

Do any actual plays of whichever version of AdEva exist?

>>51430295
I've got the logs of...most...of two games, though it's all the IC stuff and none of what's going on OoC
I have a really bad habit of taking care of logs early on and then forgetting near the end, unfortunately.

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>>51387942
Oh right, I will of course congratulate the Borderline team for progressing this far with your project. Though I don't use the product, I still maintain that AdEva could have never asked for a more loyal team of developers than you have demonstrated.

Thank you for everything.

Though I'll still play and run 3rd edition, if only to get an even better idea of where the flaws are.

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>>51430295
We haven't yet properly logged our sumerian-inspired 3rd edition game; but I'm working on it as a side project!

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So much Ramiel in this thread

I still don't understand what the fuck was going on in NGE desu

Why is Gendo such a dick to Shinji? Wouldn't Yui be upset, even if his plan ended up working?

>>51433536
You know how Shinji is such a shitty person throughout the series and can't into basic human interaction and is only really good for piloting the Eva?

Gendo is exactly the same, except he's only good at running Nerv. They're both basically the same person, one is just older than the other and has the illusion of being a functional human being.

>Wouldn't Yui be upset, even if his plan ended up working?
You should really watch EoE.

>>51433643
I did watch EoE. I also watched the three Rebuilds

I'm not sure to what you're referring, it's been at least 6 years since I saw EoE

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>>51433679
Watch Evangelion 1-24.

Watch End of Evangelion.

Watch 25-26.

>>51433536
>>51433679

>Why is Gendo such a dick to Shinji?
Gendo is a bad human being in general, but in particular he can't at all deal with Shinji because there is no room to be the loving father Yui wanted him to be in the middle of his single-minded quest to reunite with his wife. So he copes by being as detached and distant as possible.

He knows it's fucked, but being a good dad is simply incompatible with his long-term goals, plus his own emotional issues. You could argue that it's a sign that he cares for Shinji that he chooses to present himself this way, rather than manipulating him like he does p. much everyone else in his life.

>Wouldn't Yui be upset, even if his plan ended up working?
She is, rejects his attempt at seizing Instrumentality, and unlike most people who get a vision of whom they love most as their AT Fields dissolve, instead of seeing Yui he gets eaten by an eva.

>>51433799
>instead of seeing Yui he gets eaten by an eva
Isn't that technically getting what he wanted, just not in the way he wanted it?

>>51434608
Well, he was calling 01 Yui, so technically yeah.
He just got it in the most awful way rather than his waifu wife descending from on high to hug him.

>>51427291
>>51427496
That makes me happy.

Out of curiosity what bits of V3 are considered "the bad"?

>>51419391
>This one, I'd like some explanation on actually.

You'll understand the first time someone loses an umbilical and has to make the choice of spending 3 turns doing nothing but running to get plugged then running back into the fight, or stick to fighting and hope they don't run out of power.

(Hint: unless you've upgraded yourself to 5+ rounds of power, you go get plugged in)

>>51435321
Not the same guy but the umbilical cord rules have been shit in every iteration of adeva. They are a carryover from the show that only ever negatively affect gameplay.

>>51419391
>>Overly complex character advancement track.
>I'll freely admit that I prefer it to the class system and found it pretty simple on first try.
I agree with this. The classless system with the eva types to help determine role are my favorite aspect of V3 and easily the biggest reason I prefer it to borderline.

>>51435321
Wasn't there all kinds of silly limitations on various abilities, as well? Can't use with <common weapon traits> and stuff like that? Or wait no, one of the common weapon traits disallowed it from doing a lot of stuff and then other stuff disallowed it being used with it or something...it's been a loooong while since I looked at the book
And, in general, being afraid of anything that did multiple dice of damage.

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>>51435321
Hmmm, very well; I'll write that one down and put it on the list.

>>51435544
Yes, I don't think classes fit with Evangelion very well but I'll gladly simplify and clarify the Tree of Life system along with the Roots and their unique Aspects.

>>51436269
>And, in general, being afraid of anything that did multiple dice of damage.

POSITRON CANNON ÜBER ALLES

Once again, I thank you for your feedback and am always interested in hearing more!

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>>51435321
>(Hint: unless you've upgraded yourself to 5+ rounds of power, you go get plugged in)
Wisdom.

>>51436331
>simplify and clarify the Tree of Life system along with the Roots and their unique Aspects.

Awww, that is one of my favorite parts of the new system. Unless you mean like fix some of the shit tier options that would be great. I love the idea and some of the options, but it needs a real face lift.


Also. The Roots/backgrounds. That shit needs some work. I don't have the book open in front of me right now but it was so stupid that certain assets/draw backs/ect were limited by your background choice. No smart jocks, no crippled nerds, ect ect. It does not take much to easily justify every single assets (Outside maybe a few manu ones) for any root.

>>51436688
>Crippled being a sole defining character asset enough so that nothing else your character does is worth noting.

Man fuck the physically challenged root. A character is more then their wheel chair, blindness, prosthetic limb, fucked up body or lesbianism

>>51436715
>lesbianism
>so heavily invested into your character's liquor license that they're physically challenged.
... How ,even?

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>>51436715
BLOOD TYPE:FAGGOT

WEW LAD IDENTIFIED

>>51436688
Even the manu ones could be justified in the others.
For example, for a manu, you're replaceable. For anyone else, you're just really good at that whole 'Not Dying' thing.

>>51436791
>>51436761
Alright the joke fell flat. I was expecting at least 1 person to get it but oh well. It was not that funny to begin with

Oh, before I forget, there's at least one AT power in 3.0 whose length is measured in Intervals. Funnel, I think. This is a TERRIBLE idea, because with a sufficiently large party, the power will have faded away before its user gets a second turn to make use of it.

>>51436832
Katawa Shoujo is ancient history now, anon.

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>>51436688
>Awww, that is one of my favorite parts of the new system. Unless you mean like fix some of the shit tier options that would be great. I love the idea and some of the options, but it needs a real face lift.

We want to comparatively balance the options against each other, run the numbers and ensure that everything is worth taking; this will be a massive undertaking that will eat our time and patience away, but we'll fight to get it done and we will likely ask for help along the way.

And remove stupid shit, of course.

>Also. The Roots/backgrounds. That shit needs some work. I don't have the book open in front of me right now but it was so stupid that certain assets/draw backs/ect were limited by your background choice. No smart jocks, no crippled nerds, ect ect. It does not take much to easily justify every single assets (Outside maybe a few manu ones) for any root.

Yes, this problem is noticed and will be adressed; as an example, the restriction of Evangelion Training to neo-spartan alone has always been and will always be, immensely silly.

>>51436715
Now, here I'm not speaking for the other devs, but at least I would like to see something done about the Roots so they become as distinct from each other as possible while remaining individually viable; physically challenged does not offer very much gameplay that the others do not already and it doesn't feel distinct enough that I can see much reason to keep it, lest one of my fellow devs convinces me to keep it as is.

>>51436922
Yes. This is bad and will be adressed; likewise the entire Interval system is a good idea, but was added too late into development. This time we are developing with it in mind.

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>>51435544
I don't have a problem with the idea of a classless system, but it was implemented very poorly due to the way you pay XP taxes to get into branches, and too much granularity in advancing stats plus the number of talents that just aren't useful but gate useful stuff.

And that's in the state it was left in after several very necessary passes to make it at all functional.

The suggestion that was made back when, and that still stands, goes along the lines of reducing the granularity of the system in general, and that purchasing access to skill trees gives you a better return rather than being a tax - because with the way things are now, and aimless character advancement giving you little context on how much of your XP is going to cost you to go through the tracks you want - you can end up overspending on branch access can render you useless.

Another concern: is it just me, or is the Sniper branch mostly useless? I mean, in the stamina it takes to aim AND get all those little bonuses associated with the branch's abilities, the other pilots have probably murdered the Angel twice and are starting to look at you funny.

>>51437350

Its really good on weapons with cooldown or overheat that slow your attack rate anyway, and gives you something to do if you find yourself in fights where the Angel is unattackable for a while for whatever reason.

Its also not terrible for having a couple of strong busting attacks for those cases where firing more quickly isn't as important as doing something well. Like enemies that have high soak or something else where weaker attacks are just not cutting it.

>>51437350
Sniper is good; it's definitely better than the joke that is Zweihander.

>>51437594
The AT one centered around that weapon power, what was it Wrath? That thing is a joke.

>>51437594
Multiple dice are the devil, though! You should be thoroughly penalized for using a melee weapon that uses multiple dice!

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>>51437620
Yes, good point anon. We will make sure that any weapons that can do more than one die of damage will cost 8+ Nerv Resources at least!

>>51437410
>After using the Aim action, but before making the attack that it will benefit, you can spend additional Stamina as you line up your shot. For every 1 Stamina spent, gain +2 damage to the attack when it happens, to a maximum of +6.

I dunno, man. I mean, that's 1 stamina to Aim, 2 stamina to get a +4 to damage, and then you shoot next turn. Compared to the GPC's base 4d10 damage and 3 stamina set-up time, it just doesn't seem worth it most of the time.

>>51438464
It always bugged me that there was no way for the v3 GPC to even potentially one-hit an Angel, despite it being based on a thing that was supposed to do EXACTLY THAT.
I mean yeah, there should be massive, massive drawbacks to doing so. Huge time commitments. And some luck. But the fact that in a game made to replicate Eva you can't replicate one of the more iconic scenes is just...silly.

>>51438555
Nah, it's unlikely, but still possible. I mean, 4d10 damage. The gun needs to do 15 after reduction for Armor to get a crit. Ramiel has 5 armor, so you need to roll 20 or higher. That's doable. The trouble comes from Ramiel having Angelic Field and 10 ATP, but hey, we've got a solution for that too! The GPC has 6 Breach, 7 if you spend a Req to make it an Enhanched GPC. Slap the Disrupting Shot AT power you can get from the Sniper Branch on top of that, and you can bring it all the way up to Breach 11 and negate Angelic Field entirely!

So yeah, it's definitely possible, but more than likely you'll just give Ramiel a nasty bruise and soften it up for the other pilots to finish off.

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>>51437350
>>51437410
Almost useless. It can support weapons with cooldowns, but weapons with cooldown are themselves a poor choice.

It's only merit is that it nets you an Eva Firearms advance, and access to 20xp Disrupting Shot if you need it (eventually you will start running out of sources for Eva Firearms and will need to grab bad branches just to keep raising it).

>>51437613
It was bad, then it got good, then bad again. Too much experience for the kind of weapon it gives you.

However, you can do stupid shit with Greater Wrath (Barrage) and Impact Baby. Pic related.

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>>51433536
>Why is Gendo such a dick to Shinji?
>best dad in world
>dick

When will this meme end?

>>51440453
>mecha animes usually have wish fulfillment young boy of destiny that will save the galaxy/world
>Shinji hates everything about his dads weird robot projects and his shitty destiny. He just wants a normal life

thats_the_subversion.jpg

>>51440453
Well no shit Gendo is the worst father in the world. Not only does he blatantly ignore his son's giant robot phobia, but also the fact that he's gay as hell. Just look at the way he's running away! Even the artist of that comic somehow realizes it, while complaining about it!

>>51441542
>thinks that children with phobias should we coddled
>projects homosexuality on others

I bet you've been raised by a complete cuck beta dad or by a single-mom

>>51442200

You wanna throw some more masculine insecurity memes in there while you are at it? I think some people might have missed how frantically concerned you are with your manhood.

>>51439227
>So yeah, it's definitely possible, but more than likely you'll just give Ramiel a nasty bruise and soften it up for the other pilots to finish off.

One could argue that this is exactly what happens in Rebuild; the first shot hurts Ramiel, and the second strikes the core and kills it.

>>51442200
Have you SEEN him and Kaworu both in the series proper AND in rebuild?
Gay.
As.
Hell.

>>51442674
>rebuild

DELET
E
L
E
T

>>51443040
You don't like Rebuild Ramiel?
She has the voice of an angel...

>>51443040
Eh, 1.0 and 2.0 are fine; 3.0 just had to come and ruin everything and now (lol jokes), we'll get 4.0 as well, which probably won't fix it.

>>51428214
fix your IRC

>>51443565
If 3.0 is anything to go by, 4.0 will be 30 minutes of gratuitous fanservice, and and hour and twenty minutes of Anno literally taking a hot, steaming shit on a camera, then ten minutes of giant robutt fightan that's actually kinda cool but nobody is going to get to that point.

>>51433799
but he was a dick when Yui was alive, too, though

>>51444154
Fiiiiiiiiiiiiine.

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>>51444444

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>>51444172
He's still jealous his wife had a shitton of people falling for her. Including this weird girl.
I mean, he shouldn't, cause she went with him in the end over anyone else, but hey, it's Gendo.
She probably picked him because she knew he'd become completely dependent on her.

>>51444169
>>51443565
Positive thoughts annons. 4.0 will be a masterpiece that is so amazing that 3.0 also becomes good just by proximity.

>>51446783
Haha jokes.

On another note, have I fixed my computer and also cleaned it up so it runs like it was 3 years younger. Literate programming is amazing.

So what adeva campaignsand characters are people playing?

I'm about to go into one set after a technology regression back to medieval with the Eva's being old technology that the government found and is using to fend off attacking monsters (not proper angels yet). Game is apparently going to have an Egyptian bent to it.

I'm playing a refugee from a nomadic raising tribe of hirsement that recently got wiped out. I am basing the tribe's and character's style off the polish winged hussars.

>>51448112
Humanity lost the Angelwar, and was wiped out...on Earth. A city on the moon survived, enough people evacuated in the last moments to be sustainable. Take back Earth.

I play the group's pilot-age tactical analyst/method of actually accessing Earth to strike at the Angels. Aka OD. Except she's an Angel outright herself. She thinks humanity is fascinating and deserving to live, due to how much variety each individual has, their strengths and their flaws.

Of course, game's been running a long while. Last Angel on Earth is dead, but there's four more who have hidden themselves on the Moon. One is another PC. And if more than one Angel survives, the others are coming back again..

>>51448631
That's pretty rad. How long as the game been running to get to that point?

>>51448673
Two and a half years now, but loooooots of missed weeks due to IRL and due to the players being scattered across the globe.

In addition to another game I am about to start playing in I am GMing a game set on a gigantic generation ship. The ship's government got wiped out in the first angel attack and so the AI that manages the ship's subsystems has taken over while the human populace are trying to organize a new centralized government.The players have the fend off angel attacks in between being used as political bargaining tools by the various factions trying to become the new sole government.

>>51449040
And what's the other one?

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Also, remember: children have a hard time harming adults armed with weapons when they aren't armed with weapons themselves. Kids are squishy.
If you don't want them trying to shoot people, don't give them guns in the first place.
And if you're running Borderline in particular, don't forget that attacking an armed opponent while unarmed gives a -20 penalty to whatever it is you're doing.
And if you REALLY don't like the idea of PScale combat, it's perfectly valid to rule that the weapon proficiencies only apply to EScale weapons. Big penalties tend to put a big damper on things. It's also perfectly valid NOT to rule that way, because having shit break out once or twice a game can be fun, and we'd rather allow something and let an individual GM veto it than deny it by default when it can lead to interesting things depending on the game. All depends on the players in question and if they're able to roleplay the situation.

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Post potential character portraits.

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>>51452466

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>>51452474

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>>51452477

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>>51452454
Eh, I'll just post a few I've used.
Like this one >>51448631
One of the other players noticed the slight hint in the edit somehow right off the bat...

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>>51452482

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>>51452517
Finding appropriate portraits for pilot characters is hard.

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>>51452542
I just look around the boorus with a bunch of traits plugged in until I find something good, then make slight edits as necessary. Hasn't failed me yet.

>>51410737

There's nothing wrong with Bliss Stage if you pretend there's no listed ages in the fucking book.

I read 4/5ths of that book nodding along and thinking about how elegant some of the design decision could be.

Then I hit that page and ditched it. I'd rather run Monster Heart (Same good impression, far less squick)

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>>51415298
>>51416059

Might just be me as a son of a bitch GM; but I really think "Berserking Pilot is dead" should be really high on the list.

I think an Ante system would be a good idea, where everyone who's out of the fight can start paying up to keep the Berserker running. Perhaps even through note passing so the players get to share into the narrative what the Berserking pilot sees VS what's happening in the background (Kinda a meta "red haze" effect) That way the suffering gets spread out and the other players can still be part of the resolution.
And then Pilot gets home and finds out what got sold to keep the lights on...

>>51453024
>first berserk, shinji is fine, city gets trashed
>second berserk, shinji is fine from the berserk (it's the fact that it took so long to HAPPEN that's the problem), city was trashed by the Angel, 01 doesn't even fuck shit up
>third berserk is where 01 goes fucknuts and Shinji tangs. Not dies, tangs.
>fourth berserk is countered by false lance pincushion technique
>IT AAAALL RETURNS TO NOTHING
And then Shinji and Asuka are the ones that survive.
Oh, wait, I forgot the two times that 00 berserked and the pilots didn't die.

So yes, 'berserking pilot is dead' should not be high on the list. Because nobody died when the berserking Eva berserked, and it took it three times for Shinji to tang. And that could've well been due to the other circumstances as well - there was the whole cracking going on while Zeruel hammered on 01's core and all. And it was the one that it did the most, was the most active, and took in the S2 organ.

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>>51453024
Forgot: In short, yes, that is just you being, as you put it, a son of a bitch GM.

>>51453102

Sorry, I misspoke based on my experience with DH.

I mean that the Berserking Pilot should be high on the TABLE; EG: Rare as hell.

He should come home, with everything that entails.

>>51453173
Ah, gotchya. Honestly, considering what those posts were talking about? I probably wouldn't even put it there at all.
If you not only berserked, went for HUGE POWER with those ideas, and then STILL lost, then there's honestly little need to punish you beyond what you're already paying the cost for.

>>51453285

Agreed.

I think I should experiment with a set of "sacrifices" that could be offered to the DM in exchange for more Berserk power, but explicitly bar the berserking pilot from paying in.

If it's possible to balance the cost vs the reward, a really interesting gambler's deathspiral behavior could be encouraged between the "blind" berserker high-rolling and the supporting players trying to cut their losses.

A few caveats:

I think berserk should only be activated when all EVAs are actually down or out for one reason or another: It shouldn't be a reward for being last man standing. The party should agree who goes to berserk, or if anyone does at all.

The costs have to be harsh, but the results good too, I'm looking for whiplash here: The berserking player should be able to kick some ass as a god soldier, then come down from the high, and see what his wraith has wrought.

>>51447192
Wait what?

>>51448112
Wait, how do they power, equip, repair and upgrade the EVAs?

>>51451091
Yeah, but then the Berserker gets a kitchen knife and annihilates in melee and/or throwing

>>51455076
ancient automated technology

>>51455316
>automated upgrade tech
What, do you have Techless AdEva?

>>51455448
Upgrading tech is fluffed as digging up more of the eva facility.

>>51452937
You do realize that the listed ages are optional, right? I've personally found that the game plays best with characters ranging between 15 to 19 (On the very young to very old spectrum.) But that's just how I play it.

>Monsterhearts
Fuck off, Monsterhearts guy. These two systems tell wildly different stories.

>>51452937
Monster Heart is stupid and ineloquent. It is a dumb system for dumb people

>>51455098
So they're taking a -10 penalty to hit by default because a kitchen knife is not an actual weapon and thus is at BEST a Poor quality knife.

Which means, if you take the suggestion above, you're looking at them having at absolute maximum a default 35 to hit in melee (20 WS base, +20 roll/PB, +5 Neospartain, +20 advances, -20 nonproficiency, -10 Poor quality). They can up this to at most 55 via All Out Attack or Accelerated Smash, but the former is going to get their ass killed by their target's buddies (AND requires being next to said target already) and the latter can happen all of once. And that's still just slightly better than coinflip odds. If they hit, they'll be doing good damage, yes, 1d5+8 at maximum plus whatever they decided to sacrifice to Wild Swing (but they probably won't since they're having trouble hitting anyways), but then that's another starting

And again, those numbers are assuming a Neospartan Berserker who pumped their Weapon Skill AND Strength to the maximum possible. They'll probably be lower. Trained and Expert advances are EXPENSIVE for WS, and having two stats with 20s in them means that they are either exceedingly lucky or blew a lot of their pointbuy points on being boring combat monkeys.

>>51455948
I remember having an 80+ BS as a Skirm, is all

>>51455098
If your Berserker is trying to murder people with a kitchen knife, you have bigger problems than the combat rules.

>>51455948
>Not proficient in using a knife
Is that really a thing in DH?
Also, it's the additional Talents that worry me more than base WS. Though more relevant for Skirmishers, really

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/tg/ always make the best shit with the Evangelion setting.

Rolled 8 (1d10)

>>51458745
>David
Press F to pay respects

>>51456116
80+ to hit isn't the same as 80+ BS. Ranged gets all kinds of bonuses from things like range, fullauto/semiauto, and various upgrades, and there's the plug bonuses and if you were a skirm that's another +5 to actual BS from Basic Training. But what was being brought up was Zerker with a Knife because it was suggested to just not give kids guns.
>>51456217
Well yeah, that's a given. Some people are going to be fuckheads unfortunately. I've seen someone decide to take on three armed S2 agents for no real reason alone with his fists. Then again, I've seen someone quit the game because he didn't want his character's picture taken...
>>51456649
That is indeed how it works in DH, though all but one career gets proficiency with the knife in its starting stuff, and the one that doesn't gets to choose melee OR pistols, so it doesn't come up much.
And skirm will do a BIT better with a kitchen knife, yeah (Einhander and friends with Precision are nice, but a knife is not a weapon with the Compact weapon quality), but they have 0 reason to pump Str at all.
Other things to note: if whoever someone is attacking is wearing anything resembling at all, their attack is going to be way worse (because Primitive), and that the AVERAGE adult human is going to have ~40s all around (thanks to the Adult trait and not needing SR at all)

>>51458745
Wish I'd been able to keep track of that, but it happened at the same time as a game I was in.

>>51460091
It didn't run for long anyway. After the /qst/ split the guy went full autism and stopped writing it.

>>51460168
He actually stopped because his shit got fucked up and he lost his internet or something. I don't think the /qst/ thing had much to do with it, unless those were just cuck excuses.

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I've played 3.0 for two full campaigns, and it's a mess.

>not enough p-scale rules to properly represent p-scale

>on the flip side e-scale battles take a long time even for simple attacks to resolve
>e-scale system in general is needlessly complex and convoluted

Basically the game designers wanted everything to focus on the action(fighting the angels) and made those fights absurdly complex but not particularly good without good GM'ing, at the same time they do very little for the intrigue and psychological aspects of Evangelion. If you want to do giant robots vs kaiju and nothing else why even call it Eva?

3.0's system has some good things to it, but it needs to be completely revamped on a fundamental level. However try and explain this to BMJ's team and they will respond quite rudely.

>>51460486
There hasn't been a team in...a while, though.

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>>51461168
It's how the mainline adeva team acted, that also happened with 2.5:

> Staunchly defend initial public release, veto/ignore feedback they do not like.
> As the initial rush of new and returning players winds down (the prime time to get feedback), start admitting there are flaws and some bad conceptual decisions were made, but it'd be too much work to go back on them.
> Loss of interest. Eventually they expressing unhappiness with the way the system turned out but ultimately none of the "devs" besides BMJ even remember how the system works because they haven't looked at it in months/years, and quite frankly don't care anymore.

>>51458745
Please enlighten me, what is this?

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It seems like an eternity ago when I hung out in the borderline IRC and heard about the AdEva dev drama.

>>51460486
>not enough p-scale rules to properly represent p-scale

Ha. Not for lack of trying. BMJ was always asking what more p scale mechanics the system needed or people wanted.

I'll give you the same answer I gave him. Pscale has all the mechanics it needs. If it had any more, you would be actively telling people how to roleplay for no reason.

>>51458745
That one goes to >>>/qst/ now.
Anna did nothing wrong.

>>51462643
People need structure and guidelines. If they were fine with absent rules, they'd play without rules.

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>>51462097
A really cool tactical Evangelion drawquest that ran last year. Nerv Bridge Simulator

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>>51460486
Yes; your feedback pleases me, do continue and give me all of it. I need as much data as possible to relay to the other devs so we can make the next edition as good as possible.

I want you to list what you think is good and workable about 3.0, and then I want you to list what you think is good. I'll start doing threads about this, and probably namefag at some point to ensure I get an easy way to recognize me instead of just Ramiel pictures.

>>51463621
I'll be keeping an eye out for Ramiel-kun threads if that is the case.

My favourite thing from V3 that I hope stays is the intervals. It is a nice inbuilt way to scale the angels a but with the number of players left alive.

The thing that I most hope goes is all of the trap choices in the tree of life.

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Which version of AE is best/ most balanced and usable?

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>>51463865
>Intervals
The intervals are an interesting case; they occupy the same thematic design space as Attacks of Opportunity, but got much more focus; like everything else, they're currently potentially on the chopping block.

>Tree of Life
Oh man, you can't even believe how much we're going to prune that tree of life, holy shit we'll run so many numbers against each other to get that working.

>>51464005
Currently Borderline; but hopefully a deriviative of 3rd some day! :V

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>>51464194
Whats the difference between the different versions? 1,.2, 2.5, borderline and 3?

>>51465015
1 - Initial DH version. Very short lived, pilots took ego for neutralizing.
2 - Revision of the first, fixed some of what was wrong, still had a lot of problems. Ambidextrous Lightning Attack Skirms with Prog Swords blended anything that moved, berserkers and ATTs were trash. The system that allowed for Sol Breach.
Master Edition - First attempt to fix v2's problems, a Definitive AdEva. It was never finished, but some copies were floating around and used in various games. Had a bunch of odd ideas, some of which were recycled later, some of which weren't. Infamous for having a lowcost, earlygame, actually strong laser AT power that every ATT took forever and spammed forever, because lasers.
Then ME was cancelled because it got too bloated. A few people were tasked with making a 2.5, still based on DH, while BMJ worked on a new system completely divorced from DH.
This, unfortunately, lead to a huge amount of drama which caused the split between Borderline and 2.5. Fuck Elpizo.
Both came out at around the same time, but had different ideas on how to handle the same general changes. I am exceedingly biased here, and will not say more on the differences between the two because of that. Borderline is still being worked on, by two of the three people who originally started the material (and a third who was instrumental in getting it started up in the first place)
v3 is said system that was non-DH based. It uses a semiclassless approach alongside specific classes for the Evangelions themselves instead of a careers and upgrades method. It has its own perks and flaws over the others, which have been discussed at length in this thread how did this become a v3 thread. BMJ has dropped development of it due to burnout and IRL reasons, leaving it to whoever wants to pick it up to work on.

>>51465517
>how did this become a v3 thread
Because someone is actively working on unfucking it, and hopefully won't fuck it up.

>>51465015

1 was something BMJ threw together by himself for his friends, and only got shown to anyone else because he thought someone else might have fun with it. It's a homebrew for DH, and to be honest had a lot of bad ideas and wasn't really complete, just mostly complete.

But people saw the kernel of a good idea in there, and played it. Someone made an IRC to talk about the game, BMJ found out about it and joined it, and the first AdEva dev team was born. A bunch of campaigns happened, and the feedback and demands from them resulted in V2. Flawed, but still greatly improved from V1 and complete.

After V2, BMJ and his devs went in circles for years trying to figure out fixes for the game while still keeping things based on DH. Whole editions were worked on and discarded without ever getting a real release. A lot of drama happened, and this is when Borderline and 2.5 split off. Most would say that 2.5 and Borderline and improvements on V2, but they went in different directions so its hard to get objective about shit. 2.5 and Borderline have a lot in common, fundamentally speaking, and its more about the details that they differ.

V3 is the only edition of the game that isn't connected to DH and instead made up its own system, albeit one that still uses d100. General consensus seems to be that its poorly balanced and relies a lot on the GM holding the game together, but it has some interesting parts too. V3 tried a bunch of new and unusual shit to try and solve AdEva's core problems, and some of them are not bad. But some of them are.

Everything before V3 requires DH to play, and is some variant of class based system. V3 goes classes and technically has more varied chargen options, but not all of them are worth taking.

V2/2.5/Borderline support a special character type called an Operations Director, which is a command officer instead of a pilot. V3 was supposed to have this too, but BMJ threw himself into the abyss before he delivered on that promise.

>>51465517
> how did this become a v3 thread

Because there hasn't been a V3 thread in forever, and I think this thread might actually be the first time most fa/tg/uys are learning that BMJ walked off into the desert. People with questions and nowhere else to ask them.

>>51465651
>>51465804
Bah. I suppose.

>>51448112
Experiments by the CIA discovered a parallel world called the Dail, where humanity is connected through their dreams. After an experiment gone wrong the dissolved and buried the operation, but one scientist scavenged it from the ashes and built a unique service around it. This is Dreamcatchers, which recruits bright young minds to serve as pilots to eliminate nightmares gone rogue - the Brihin.

My character is the ice princess ranged skirm, more focused on her dance than what goes on in the Dail. She's my straight-laced, brutally honest snarker and is a joy to roleplay. Her very awkward love triangle with her dance partners (a Russy reverse-trap, and the leader of the other pilot team) just adds to the fun.

We just had an amazing session, diving into a former USSR vet's trench warfare nightmare to remove a Brihin known as Wolf. His weapon affected synch ratios, resulting in our Berserker berserking for the first time, our ATT being sliced in half, and a very close call in removing her from the mission before her Angelic Soul could be eaten.

>>51465704

Is it wrong that I liked playing operations director the best?
I was super excited when I managed to get her POV quotes as fluff text in v2

>>51466892
I also love ops director. I have e played every version of ops director and heartily enjoyed all of them. Even though the ops director mechanics make them sine wave between overpowered and useless. V2 was the worst with the way that the conventional forces could output enough damage to down almost any angel in a single round if the pilots neutralised it enough.

>>51467939
Hopefully we'll be able to make them both interesting and balanced in further revisions of Borderline.

>>51443565
Ironically, 3.0 actually works much better with Borderline (what with pilots being angels and able to punch holes in walls now) than V3 which has pilots be ineffective outside of the robots.

>>51468859
The "Gotcha Bitch!" Talent option for iOS director is still my favourite single character option in Borderline.

It isn't the most powerful but man is it fun.

>>51469278
That is the entire reason one of the OD quickfixes in 1.3 is getting a free Impenetrable Fortress.
So you can start off with it for free if you want.
Also, you know, to give you a few tools to actually do your job at chargen as is standard.

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>>51466892
>>51467939
I will fight to make sure that Operations Director gains an update for the redone of V3; it was one of my favourite things to play in 2.5 and Borderline and I was extremely saddened by the fact that it wasn't updated for V3. That, and Boogie Mullet Jigsaw's design notes look extremely interesting and I'd like to make something from them that is both functional and fun. I'd also like to blatantly steal from borderline's dev team and pretend they were our own inventions while adding an extra 'thank you note' in the beginning of the book.

>>51468953
I don't know whether I'd call pilots ineffective out of their Evangelions; not comparable to adults no, but certainly not ineffective. In my V3 game - back when it wasn't so errata'd away that it didn't even look like V3 - two of the pilots seized a bunch of weapons and established a kill zone against attacking soldiers by camping like little bitches inside a room, racking up an impressive killcount (and Stress count lol) of 14 enemy soldiers before getting incapacitated by a flashbang.

>>51469886
And now you can't pretend that, since I've seen it.
Also don't mind if you draw ideas from Borderline, so you don't need to pretend.
Just say it's where you got the idea from.

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>>51470205
The borderline team is immensely talented despite the fact that they work with Dark Heresy. They have crafted a working system despite the limitations of what they work with, which is most impressive.

My salutations go to them as always.

>>51469278
>iOS director
Is there a joke I'm missing out on?

Also, where do people get all these AdEva games, I've been unable to play for years

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>>51396659
>>51396825
I was in a game that ended up being a de-facto test game, since we updated things a few times with the new rulesets.
The things we highlighted as difficult as a group got more difficult. He basically did exactly the opposite of what our feedback and suggestions requested. The game eventually folded due to scheduling.

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>>51470457
>Also, where do people get all these AdEva games, I've been unable to play for years

I have an IRL group, which I've been running a Sumerian-inspired game with a complete cosmological overhaul and over 50 pages of mechanical errata for. I'm also starting a Discord game which may or may not end up as the testbed for the next edition of Adeptus Evangelion.

>>51470627
>irl AdEva
Have you people no shame?

>>51470699
I also play adeva IRL. With three different gaming groups over the course of five years and all of the adeva versions except the first one. I still play with two of the groups regularly though only one of them is currently in an adeva campaign (Playing Fragged Empire with the other).

I tend to gravitate towards groups that like to try new systems.

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>>51470699
I'm a law student, per definition I cannot have shame, no.

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>>51425206
>>51424523
There's a luck cap because in an early testing game, I designed a character to suffer miserably and repeatedly to accrue massive amounts of Luck with the express purpose of being able to row row fight the powah when the final Angel showed up.

>>51470760
>having the choice between several IRL groups, with **several** being into niche systems
My hate and jealousy for you is like a truck burning hot

Hey Anons, I'm a luarker that's spent the last couple of days browsing all things NGE and AdEva related.

You can take it with a grain of salt and call me a faggot all you want but after sitting and watching a while this is what I've observed.
AdEva V3:
- Unbalanced as shit
- BMJ has tried to focus entirely on the roleplay mechanics without listening to advice and has ended up producing a fuckey game
- Doesn't use Dark Heresy
- Becomes grindy because of unbalancing
- Good core ideas, poor implementation

AdEva Borderline:
- far more balanced than V3
- Hindered by Dark Heresy
- In serious need of several revamps
- Devs aren't currently willing to rebuild from scratch
- Dark Heresy. Basically.

I'm sure this is going to sound like a complete 'lol u understand nothing anon' but surely if the devs were willing to take on more people, or if there were a bunch of willing anons, it would be possible to take the best of both of these games and work them together? I'm sure it'd be no easy project but I'd be willing to help out by any means.

Can we not come together to create a magnum opus by deconstructing and rebuilding these two games, to form one superior game?

cuz I've read all of the posts in this thread, there are a lot of sad anons that just want to get in the fucking robot.

>inb4 faggot
>inb4 communist
>inb4 idealism

>>51471712
To be fair I was the one who brought two of those groups together in the first place, forming them out of people who had not played tabletop games before. So it isn't like I just stumbled across them.

>>51471930
You are an idealistic communistic faggot and I love you for it.

We need more idealistic communistic faggots in the world.

>>51472374
Thank you anon. I do try.
Surely it would be a lot easier to combine the two rather than rebuild each individual one though? I mean having two separate games for essentially the same thing is kind of a bad idea, especially in the long term, if the community of AdEva is to grow.
"A house divided cannot stand." - Osama bin laden.

>>51471930
Shut up you commie faggot.

>>51472374
All jokes aside, we really, really don't. I don't want to get into it on /tg/ because someone will go full /pol/, but communism is pretty solidly bad in real life.

>>51472548
>. I don't want to get into it on /tg/
Then why did you say anything about it at all?

>>51471930
One problem would be two out of three members of the Borderline team suffering from enough mental bullshit to make for fine Eva pilots. Possibly the third, too, dunno.
Also, you don't need to say Dark Heresy three times for it.

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>>51471930
>Can we not come together to create a magnum opus by deconstructing and rebuilding these two games, to form one superior game?
Since you have read all those posts; you may also be aware that we are a bunch of anons who are currently in the progress of unfucking and burning away the rot that eats at the heart of v3 in an attempt to make something that works far better; we have currently just finished our design goals and are making mechanical decisions on what we want to see and not see in the intention of unfucking the game entirely. We also have the advantage of having dedicated number-crunchers, statisticians and people who can run probabilities as well as idea guys and game mechanics writers who can work together in a synergistic whole under a set of unified design goals. We are entirely willing, and in fact encourage people to be as critical of game mechanics as possible to provide us the best feedback we possibly could get. Once we move into the stages where we can release alpha copies and beta copies, we will encourage people to play the game with the intention of shattering it, as well as theorycrafting as much as possible in order to best utilize and respond to this feedback and make something that finally works. During this process, we will take inspiration and cues from the excellent design team of Borderline, who have made the best possible of their limited working material, and we will give them credit when due for their ideas.

>>51472548
It's not at all bad when it comes to intellectual work. ALL of the world's most important software architecture is based on software that is free as in freedom.
MYSQL, almost all servers (those not run by retards), the gcc, Qt, most software libraries, the kernel of most smartphones, the system for typesetting most scientific journals (real science), the best professional version control system, countless userland programs, etc.

Free (as in freedom) software is superior in every way, except for the purpose of earning money with inferior products and work-ethic.

>>51472807
The Communist ideal of this collectivist, cooperative group works best with a team of like-minded individuals who are passionate about their work. While people do like money and will work for incentives, the way that most businesses operate tends to pervert that incentive structure (why would I work more if I'm not getting paid more? Why should I finish my work quickly, if it just means more work?)

Unfortunately, it's hard to find people who are passionate enough about their idea that they're willing to create a free (libre) work for free (gratis).

>>51472580
Poor impulse control.

>>51471930
I've actually been considering writing a PbtA hack for Eva, seeing as I feel that the series befits a more loose storytelling progression. I'll likely end up ripping off a few concepts from AdEva.

>>51473521
PbtA?

>>51475639
Powered by the Apocalypse, using the Apocalypse World engine, which is really just the "roll 2d6+bonus, 10+ you win, 7-9 you kinda win, 6 or under get fucked kiddo".

>>51476014
Ah. I've never seen such things referred to by that acronym, just 'Apocalypse World engine'

The 1d4chan page for AE calls
"AdEva Borderline, a drama-fueled counterpart to your regular AdEva."
Is that true? Because I care more about madness and cool fights than shinji whining

>>51477754
There was a shitton of drama involved between the two groups when it first came out. That's what it's referring to.

>>51477805
Ok, thanks.

>>51472744
aw hell yea dude
I'm not the best at maths but I'm bredy gud at writing. If you need any extra help I'd be willing to contribute.

>>51472744
Whats wrong with it? It must be really bad if people dislike it so much because I've seen some /tg/ homebrews that are really broken mechanics wise and no one says anything.

>>51481123
Read the rest of the thread.

Well shit, this thread ALMOST lasted a whole week.
Congratulations, everyone~!