/CofD/ &/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

>>51386173
>How would you improve Geist?
Massively lower the power level.

Give them a Y-splat that actually means something.

Give them actual things to do, and challenges outside the Underworld.

Refocus the game around being a psychopomp and having to actually resolve the issues of the dead rather than just steamrolling them with their unstoppable superpowers.

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>>51386173
As I said, I'm going to be re-posting this for the next few threads so as to ensure maximum exposure. Let's call it two more threads, don't want to wear out my welcome.

Anyway...

FINALLY...it's done. The Vampire Monster Manual. 108 pages worth of generic NPCs for you to throw at the peons who show up to your games. I mean the player troupe. Whatever.

56 Clan vampires, 18 Bloodline vampires, 17 ghouls, 17 other supernaturals, 29 mortals, and 23 animals. A total of 160 NPCs, suitable for any chronicle taking place in the modern day.

Remember that these are meant to be generic things to throw at your troupe, NOT a replacement for hand-crafting a character for your chronicle yourself. The Prince and Primogen and so on of your main city should be made to your specifications. But when your chucklefuck players decide that, no, they don't want to stay in Boston, they really do need to go over to Worcester for God knows what reason. Or start a fight with the pizza delivery guy that they themselves called over to their lair. Or whatever.

Enjoy!

THIS IS FOR YOU, /TG/. I DID IT ALL FOR YOU.

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>>51386230
And of course, it works very well when used in conjunction with this.

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>>51386150

I'm pretty sure the Ascension players here only care about Archmages being stronger than any known vampire. Which they are. The seven fold curse is God's power. Cain didn't curse himself.

On the question of Archmages being stronger than God? It's a good possibility knowing how far they can go. Having the power to create universes is God material. And MotA even twice suggested that an ancient Mage started existence.

But why does any of this matter?

>>51386268
>Cain didn't curse himself.

Actually...

Well, on second thought, that's only in one of the Gehenna scenarios, Fair is Foul. Which is I think the best, though like all of them it needs a lot of work to make it actually worthwhile.

>>51386336

I'm shit-posting? I'm just putting out my opinion on this discussion. A very pointless discussion, I might add.

>>51386442
Don't take the bait of butthurt vampfags
MAGE SUPREMACY

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>>51386230
Saved and printing!

>>51386623
Yeah, I holding a physical copy of it feels noice.

NOICE.

>>51386230
Well I'll be damned an actual cool vampfag

>>51386690
I don't know nearly enough about the mechanics. I've exclusively played Vampire, and only know about the other splats through reading their books, but not playing them.

>>51386727
I don't think having your asshole fucked by creeps wearing fishnet shirts and black nail polish while Blood on the Dance Floor plays in the background is something to be jealous of.

>>51386229
what the fuck is a Y-Splat?

>>51386727
Vampfags are just the cringy goth kids whose only sexual experience is some fat gothchick telling them to kiss each other and suck each others cock.

>>51386812
It's almost as if you've never had two pierced, tattooed girls in corsets taking it in turns to worship your cock after you'd all done shots of chartreuse and smoked huge joints....

Don't feel bad. If it makes you feel any better, it's really hard to find individual pieces of clothing when it's all black and all over the floor.

>>51386819
Covenants, Tribes, Cabals, Refinements, Courts, Archetypes, Guilds, etc.

>>51386819
Sub-splat, usually an antagonist, so like, Seers for M:tAw, or Strix for V:tR.

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>>51386876
>piercings
>tattoos
>fruity european alcohol

>>51386688
'tis just another example of /tg/ Getting Shit Done.

>>51386954
Y-splat is the organizational (or, in the case of Promethean and Geist, the philosophical) splat, as opposed to the "in-born" X-splat. The problem with Geist's Y-splat is it does absolutely nothing and has no effect on the game, so it's literally just a word on your character sheet.

>>51387128
Right, I don't even remember what their secondary one does. The primary makes complete sense. The issue is that they didnt like the idea of Geist having world-spanning organizations because...uh reasons.

>"Can we talk about something else please" I continue to insist as I make no effort to start an alternative discussion and the thread continues to talk about Mage Supremacy without interruption.

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What's going on in the thread?

>>51387309
They don't need to have world-spanning organizations. Promethean doesn't, but its refinements are actually important and meaningful to the game. If Geist is a game of second chances, the part of your splat that represents what you've decided to devote your second chance to should fucking matter, at least as much as a Promethean's current Refinement does.

Has anyone shared conquering heroes yet

>>51387751
No because no one bought it.

>>51387705
How You Died and Why You Decided to Live. Sounds perfect for Geist honestly. The other thing the splat needs is Antagonists though, Abmortals are generic and awful. Really I never understood why they didn't play up Immortals more as a possible villain type.

How many vampires would there be in a city like Chicago or Philadelphia in CofD?

>>51388021
1 per 100000 don't expect me to spoonfeed you again

>>51388021
As many as is convenient for your chronicle.

Ignore >>51388092, he is a faggot.

>>51387751
I strongly advise you to rethink touching that book. It is absolute cancer, to place it in your chronicle will cause it to metastasize and destroy your game in a haze of dick-eggs and the Titanic sinking

>>51388176
Don't forget the girl who is apparently a bad person because she fought back against her rapis- I mean a totally pure and innocent beast.

No unfortunate subtext here, no siree

>>51388215
yes, also she doesn't ever shower, point at her, point at her and laugh

They didn't even try to be creative. Nearly everything is a concept, term or idea from Beast with a different Capitalised Name (TM) for it.

>>51388240
I think you're mixing two up.

There is a girl who became a hero after she was psychically raped by a beast and whom the game condemns as a murder and there is ALSO an insatiable girl who never showers, lives in her room all day, and sustains herself off of internet butthurt.

>>51386230
That's pretty good

>>51388092
I thought this was a cWoD rule of thumb?

>>51388297
You're right. I'm conflating the part where they paint the rape victim as the bad guy, and the part where they mock the person with severe enough anxiety that they never leave their home.

Oh boy, shaming people for mental health issues is such fun.

I hope Rich Thomas roasts in hell for this.

>>51388176
That just makes me sound interested.

>>51388377
Don't worry the titanic sinking monster can't actually hit you, but you also can't hit it. So you'll just stand there staring at each other as you hurl insults back and forth.

>>51388377
You have been warned.

Beast is by far the worst gameline in the history of either World of Darkness. I'd rather play Changeling the Dreaming with a room full of mental patients huffing nitrous oxide than spend five minutes in a game that broken, shitty, juvenile and victim-shaming. Only Aspel ever felt the need to defend it, and that should tell you enough. We all know that stupid cunt never bothered to actually read the books.

Did that movie The Skulls make anyone else think of Ventrue neonates, or was it just me?

>>51388422
I'm sure it's bad but your SJW ideologizing weakens your point, dude.

>>51388422
Grow up and stop being such a fucking pussy.
>victim shaming
Jesus Christ what does this even mean?

>>51388491
>>51388509
I know that this place loves to get triggered over 'sjw words' but what else do you call brutalizing and tormenting people and then rationalizing that they deserved it but victim shaming?

>>51388491
>SJW

your entire argument is dismissed due to shitty reddit buzzwords. Please try again.

>>51388509
Don't blame the internet for your sheltered worldview. That's on you.

>>51388509
>Jesus Christ what does this even mean?
I'm assuming that he's talking about how the book tries to pass off a Beast terrorizing and hurting a person to feed as not being so bad if that person has done something to deserve it. Examples in the book include guys who talk down to women, scorn junkies, or just rich people whose only crime is being rich. One example that stands out is an old lady beast smothering a frat boy in his own vomit for taking some candy from a child. These people aren't very nice, but still don't really deserve massive emotional and physical trauma. Of course your Beast could target people who really do deserve it, like murderers and rapists. There was an example of that in the book too, except its impact was kind of undermined by the fact that the Beast was aggressively trans and the pronouns used to refer to it were along the lines of zer, ze, and zis.

Or he could be talking about Heroes, who have just as little choice as Beasts do is what they are and how they feel, but are largely just portrayed as heartless, murderous glory hounds. Examples range from "has potential" to "nothing but fedora-wearing dudebros".

Anon is right, the book literally encourages actual victim blaming in order to keep your Beast on the moral highground after a feeding and to keep Heroes from developing beyond one dimensional bullies and antagonists. It's bad.

>>51388643
Very much this. Beast is an atrocious product, and if you actually identify with these monsters you need professional help.
>>51388509
Um, it means "shaming someone for being a victim". Do you really need someone to hold your hand and explain that to you? Maybe you need to grow up and accept that shitting all over people for things they can't help is something most people get over when they leave high school.

>>51388754
>heartless, murderous glory hounds
That's me irl

>>51388754
Got it exactly.

In contrast, vampire (both versions) never suggested that the vampires were heroes for preying on humanity, nor did they suggest that an innocent getting drained of blood and thrown in a dumpster had it coming because of something they did, said or wore. Even attempting to justify it that way was a slow descent into madness.

>>51388509
Global rules state you need to be 18+ to post.

http://www.disney.com

>>51386832
>Vampfags are just the cringy goth kids whose only sexual experience is some fat gothchick telling them to kiss each other and such each others cock

I love it when vampfags get the shit they deserve. They're even more elitist than magefags. How can they even conceive of a world where wizards prey on leeches? Such delusional turds.

>2017
>still whining about beast
>>51388783
beasts aren't considered heroes, thats why there's a bunch of them as antagonists in the book
the game doesn't suggest heroes deserve it, but beasts (and vampires who drain innocents) might think they do

it's a game
it's not making an objective statement about morality

>>51386173
>How would you improve Geist?
Do what everyone else has suggested plus maybe do a Midwest setting write up. Imagine an automotive factory full of restless dead, the foreman from The 50's decided to stage accidents the prematurely ended lives extending his own with the potential the deceased had

>>51388900
see >>51388896

>>51388909
In a series of books that now feature sizeable sidebars telling us all how we're not being progressive enough - quite literally making objective statements about morality - it's a massive cognitive dissonance. Or had you forgotten how OPP is now trying to educate us all about objective morality?

THIS IS OUR THREAD, YOU CAN'T BE HERE

GET OUT

>>51389046
who should get out?

the magefags?
the vampfags?
the sjws?
the anti-sjws?
everyone?

>>51389046
>>51389068

I'm sorry, I must have missed the part in OP's post where it said it was your private shitpost thread. Some of us came here to discuss the game, not spam "my splat is better than your splat" drivel.

Also, see >>51388896

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>>51388900

This isn't news. Vampire asswipes start spewing salt from their pores and nostrils whenever a person mentions Mage. It's fucking hilarious.

For some reason they hate the idea of a splat being stronger than their own.

>cough cough Mage
>cough cough Demon
>cough cough Dark Ages Fae

>>51389068
Especially everyone

>>51389100
see >>51388896

This thread seems to take a brief pause whenever an Anon posts something even remotely similar to Mage Supremacy.

It's like we're all subcondciously afraid of starting more splat battles. Or a splat war, if we're particularily unlucky.

Choose your words wisely or you might rouse a wizard's wrath.

>>51389177

>These threads

This has been going on for a while now, Anon.

Our own personal Gehenna.

>>51389177
Translate Vampire disciplines in Mage arcana

You can do all that Animalism shit (and more) with Life

Vampire status: cucked forever in all editions forever ever

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>Keep hearing everyone talk about Beast saying its horrible
>Finally decide to sit down and read the pdf
>One of the sample heroes is literally pic related, down to calling people milady and being white-knight as fuck. Wears a fedora and trenchcoat and everything.
>Its literally dorks fighting otherkin the game.

You guys lied to me, this game is amazing.

>>51389261
see >>51388896

>>51389282
There's no accounting for taste....

>>51389311
>You play as the otherkin

Okay NOW I get why its shit. Playing as a bunch of aspies trying to be heroes is hilarious, playing as a bunch of edgelords who think they're doing the right thing is shit.

>>51389177
I'm concerned as to why anyone gives a shit. Yeah, mages are canonically more powerful than other supernaturals, but neither WoD is supposed to be a dick-measuring contest, and crossplay chronicles have always been strongly discouraged by the devs. It doesn't matter that mages are more powerful than vampires. If your ST knows what they're doing, your coterie will almost never run into one, let alone fight one.

>>51389282
Too bad playing Heroes isn't officially allowed. I would love to play as a fucking sword swinging, monster fighting, goofy talking socially inept dork. That would be hilarious. Too bad the game takes itself seriously and wants you to only play as Beasts.

>>51389261
Mage status: never played, all editions forever.

>>51389446
Mage has a shit ton of actual plays. Some of them run by our lord and savior DaveB.

>>51389282
The game to me seems to be a comnentary on the subjectivity of morality and extendung the vtm/vtr concepts to its natural extreme.

I just wish i could figure out how to run a game

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>>51389324

We hate it when misinformed vampfags question our capabilities.

We will not tolerate your splat ignorance as you question our right to be supreme.

>>51389446

A good example and reason why we loathe vampfags. Misinformation. The seed of all misfortune.

>>51389513

But it's impossible for every single player to not be ignorant about certain things. You best get over it because you will always meet someone who thinks Mages aren't the best despite being wrong about it. And they're not going to believe you even if you tell them.

You will always meet someone you know is wrong, but too ignorant to think otherwise. That's the way of life. Grow up. /tg/ is full of dumbasses. This isn't the best place to start. Just be glad some of us know the truth about Mage supremacy.

It's also getting old. Really old. I suggest we talk about something else for the last fucking time.

>>51389572
t. vampfag trying to placate magefag to end this war

>>51389282
Otherkin are nothing like that.

Otherkin are more like the fae in Dreaming. They have memories of another world and they have to fight not to be ground down by everyone else writing them off as crazy.

Beasts are just the Colombine shooters with supernatural powers, "making them all pay" for perceived teenage insults. The entire gameline is juvenile as fuck, and a sign of how low OPP have sunk in both dev standards, creativity and writing quality.

>>51386876
Believe it or not, we don't all find goth sluts that hang themselves in the bathroom after attractive.

>>51389513

You need to be 18+ to post here, son.

www.disney.com

>>51389589
see >>51388896

>>51389606
>what is grammar and sentence structure?

Try again, I don't speak ignoramus.

>>51389611
>>51389620
see>>51388896

Which supernatural is the best at sex?

>>51389646

Daeva Vampires & Fairest Changelings

>>51389631
There's no need to be upset. Just go have a juice box and watch Nickelodeon. You have school tomorrow.

>>51389671

Someone is salty of the truth.

>>51389646
Hmmm. Well, Demons would have Demon Cock, and are traditionally renowned in lore for brutal fucking. Vampires are kinky as fuck if you go for that sort of thing... but my money is on the Changing Breeds, if only because their genitals grow to match the size of the rest of them.

>>51389681
Yes, you are. Now that we've established that, the grown ups can have a nice discussion about roleplaying games.

>>51389646
Mages

>>51389646
A Fomori with Extra Limbs and Savage Genitalia

>>51389695
>attempt to be good at sex
>suddenly die from paradox
yeah i could see that going well.

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>>51389691

I'm sorry you hate Mages so much. It's not our fault we kick ass and sit on lawn chairs all day.

Vampires - Goths
Werewolves - Jocks
Mages - Nerds

The vampires and mages are arguing about some stupid shit while the werewolves are getting laid

>>51389695
>come to bed, baby
>not now, darling! There are MYSTERIES to be solved!!!

>>51389718

But, what if her vagina is the greatest mystery of all?

>>51389712
see >>51388896

(I actually really like Ascens

>>51389724
>Obsession: locate the lost Spot of G

>>51389651
Thrysus Mages are up there too. They look however they want (read: however you want) and have total control of their bodies.

Want to fuck a catgirl with ridiculous proportions and a vagina that can clench on command? Call a Thrysus. Also Mages don't drink blood and are basically human (unlike a Fairest Changeling) so there is that to consider. Not to mention all the kinky shit they could get up to if you're both up for it.

>>51389728
>(I actually really like Ascens
See>>51388896

>>51389651
CHangelings from Dreaming would invoke Banality if they did something that contradicted the way they saw themselves.

What this means for ERP is that if you play an oversized troll, you will invoke Banality for accepting a normal size condom for what you see as your enormous, veiny, throbbing blue member.

The only safe recourse would involve a garbage bag and duct tape.

>>51389778
I know, son. I posted that. Now run along while grownups are speaking.

>>51389793
Banality isn't in Lost, which is where Fairest Changelings come from.

Could be wrong though.

>>51389809
>still pushing the "lol you're underage" meme
see>>51388896

>>51389826
You're right, there's no such thing as Banality in lost.

reasons why no one plays mage
magefags
reasons why magefag
consensual reality

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>>51389833

Don't mind him. Anon is just jealous of our white mage privilege.

>>51389826
No, you're right about that. Banality was part and parcel tied up with Dreaming.

It's part of the reason Dreaming never did as well as the other lines. What exactly is the point? Trying to hold onto childhood innocence? Accepting that childhood must end? Every character is ultimately doomed in a way no other splat was for OWoD. Even Garou have a glorious death to look forward to - for Changelings there's just "being undone" and then a shitty life as a haunted soul-less shell.

Other parts of it didn't make sense, either - for example, science is supposed to pure Banality, to the point where high-fiving a Technocrat could kill you, but then in the backstory it says that the Apollo moon landing got people dreaming enough to reconnect the Trods to Arcadia. So which is it? Science inspires and allows us to dream big, or Science is Banal because it explains away magic and mystery?

>>51389724
for mages, I'm sure it will forever be

>>51388340
You know, a chick who kills her rapist is something similar to a hero. A chick who kills her rapist and then goes on to kill 15 other 'bad' people to the point she's just walking up to black teenagers in gang neighborhoods and blowing their heads off is something similar to a serial killer.

It's possible to take things too far.

>>51389860
You seem to be the one that's posting to the wrong board, kid. The rest of us are here to talk about World of Darkness.

>>>/b/

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>>51389870
>just walking up to black teenagers in gang neighborhoods and blowing their heads off

Sounds like a Hero to me

>Running out of arguments vampirefags resort to personal attacks

Wow, talk about getting desperate. Your turn.

>>51389891
Yeah these Vampfags are fighting back with avengance. Too be we can just spew sunlight out of our fingertips and true death the whole lot of them

>>51389870
True, but Heroes are driven by their obsession to destroy the Beast that traumatised them. The entire argument that they are somehow the villains of the piece feels like someone arguing that Van Helsing was committing a hate crime against Dracula on the basis that he was a European Immigrant buying up English properties.

>>51389880
Go with him.

>>51389891
>>51389919

See >>51388896

>>51389919

They can try to fight us. They really can. It's just they haven't won a single thread yet. I'm starting to doubt them even more.

Is this what 3.5 was around?

Wait do Pathfinder threads even have to deal with this kind shit?

>>51389935
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umnWSGoJSNk

>>51389932
I'm not leaving. I'm here to have an adult conversation, about an adult game, with other adults. If you have a problem with us doing that, then you should leave.

>>51389888
Yeah, until you realize that only thirty nine of the two hundred and fifteen residents of this area are the ones tagging up walls and selling weed behind the autozone.

>>51389920
Have you considered perhaps it's written from the perspective of the Beasts themselves? That, to them, they are the murderous villians?

There is also the fact the one man's holy paladin is another man's satanic war criminal.

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>>51389955

Nah. You should leave.

>>51389952
Believe it or not, no. It's something about /wodg/ that attracts shitposting in a way no other segment of the board does. Even 40K fans don't act this much like underage B&.

From now on, remind all shitposters of the global rule regarding age limits. It's safe to infer from their behaviour that they lack the maturity necessary to play these games, let alone discuss them rationally.

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>mfw the most popular splat in these threads is Troll: The Shitposting

Christ almighty, every fucking thread is like this. Just stop already.

>>51389969
There really needs to be a strict delineation between the POV of the splat, and the information necessary to play. Otherwise you get muddy information like the Giovanni Clanbook (in character fluff telling the reader "...now this family has Social stats as Primary").

Also, as I said above, not even the vampires are so self-deluded, and the entire theme of the game is acceptance and responsibility for one's actions (or a lack of it)

>>51389870
Why did things have to go that far though? I'll tell you why. Because Beast is absolutely terrified of having compelling and dimensional antagonists, and Heroes would be both of those if they didn't take such extreme efforts to shit on them.

>>51389888
CAN'T SIMMER THE ZIMMER

>>51390005
Can we report posts for excessive shitposting?

>>51389985
Vampfags playing the victim card is fucking hilarious. The most popular and smug splat couldn't be told anything ever since vtm: bloodlines became popular and attracted the worst kind of people to the hobby. Werewolf fags and the other splats were too chickenshit to stand up to you. But the brave and fearless mage fags had enough and ascended to the occasion to kick your sorry undead asses.

>>51390018

Report someone for shitposting/trolling on 4chan? Good luck on that.

>>51390018
Fuckoff vampfag it was all cool for your kind to shitpost but when mage players knock you down a peg you cry foul

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>>51389955
>I'm not leaving. I'm here to have an adult conversation, about an adult game, with other adults

>>51390047
>>51390018
>Telling the lifeguards of the Piss-Pool that some kid peed in the water

Good luck with that.

>>51390039
Magefags have never been afraid of vampfags.

>>51390016
Don't forget, also, that other gamelines in the past didn't have a problem with providing rules so that (if you felt suitably perverse) you could actually play as the "Black Hats" of the gameline.

Guide to the Technocracy
Fomori: Freak Legion
Book of the Wyrm
Guide to the Sabbat
The Autumn People
Spectre: Dark Reflections
Hunters Hunted

Chronicles had things like VII, Imperial Mysteries, etc. but they refuse point blank to do anything for Beast to support players being Heroes. They are simply far too invested in portraying Beasts as the "good guys" no matter how twisted it is, and therefore by opposing them, Heroes are tacitly "the bad guys". It smacks of such blatant black-and-white thinking that it's borderline pathological.

>>51390039
>>51390062
>>51390068
see >>51388896

>>51390016
Someone slayed the monster and lived long enough to become one themselves is a tried and true concept in horror.

Look, I get it. You think rape is the most horrific thing on the planet. I'm not going to argue with you about that. But chill out, it's all fiction, and no one needs to 'burn in hell' for not treating your personal button issue without the utmost respect in the world.

Miami's godmother was largely formed by being sexually abused and beaten as a child. She still ordered literal hundreds of people (including women, children, and innocent bystandards) to be murdered in the most brutal way possible just to show the survivors she would.

>>51390089
see>>51388896

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Remember when we bitched and lusted over gay werefags? I do. Why can't we return to the good old days? You know? The Chronicles of Fagness!

>>51386230
Well done.

>>51390100
>no one needs to 'burn in hell' for not treating your personal button issue without the utmost respect in the world.

I think it was more the fact they were profiting from such labeling and victim shaming that had Anon so upset.

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>>51390118

>Why can't we return to the good old days?

BECAUSE MAGEFAGS ARE BETTER THAN WEREFAGS AND VAMPFAGS

>>51390100
>You think rape is the most horrific thing on the planet.
No I don't.
>But chill out, it's all fiction
I know.
>no one needs to 'burn in hell' for not treating your personal button issue without the utmost respect in the world.
Never said they should. Rape isn't my personal button issue.


The only thing that bothers me about rape girl is that Beast gave her the same treatment it gives the rest of its Heroes.

>>51389920
Did you read the rewrite? Heroes are born like Beasts are now.

>>51390080
yeah the core is shitty to heros but Beast has been out for barely a year if that. and there are rules for Hero powers in the core. All of owod has had years of development. Tone it back. there a lot of bullshit to hate about beast without making stuff up

>>51390118
It's not technically against the Litany if Metis can't result. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that Fianna do that sort of thing all the time.

It gets cold and lonely out on those moors....

>>51390154
Then it makes even less sense to cast them as the villains. Can they help it, or not? Are they a tragic figure caught up in forces they don't understand, or assholes comparable to Gamergate trolls? The fundamental message is confused beyond repair.

>tfw to awakened to be a vamvy or wolfy

>>51390154
except where in the adventure module when the BBEG made a hero to kill. and the book flip flopping on whether it's one or the other

>>51390157
Also ripped werevolf chicks are hot

>>51390155
>and there are rules for Hero powers in the core
So they can be used as antagonists.

Heroes are portrayed as being undeniably in the wrong and a lot of the examples given are flat out psychotic douchebags. What's more, a player Hero wouldn't be fighting Beasts without being one of those psychotic douchebags, because the book literally says that Heroes with high Integrity ignore the ripples in the Dream.

I'll eat my hat if Beast ever gives Heroes a fair shake.

>>51390155
Ok, so does it acknowledge anywhere in the core that players might like to play as them?

I ask because the Cores of other lines often feature suggestions for alternative campaigns. The most memorable I ever saw dated back to Masquerade 2nd, where it suggested a mashup between Masquerade and Twilight 2000. It encouraged ST's to make the game their own, make the world their own.

CofD has cut back on the metaplot, but players are railroaded more than ever into the "right way to play the game". Sidebars regularly instruct us on what BADWRONGFUN to outlaw at our tables.

>>51390194
>also ripped thyrsus chicks are hot
Fixed

>>51390194
I'm actually surprised no-one has yet made an erotic western art comic featuring WoD characters rooting each other senseless. Remember, WW have stated they are cool with fans producing products they themselves wouldn't make....

>>51390200
>Sidebars regularly instruct us on what BADWRONGFUN to outlaw at our tables
Examples?

Aside from Beast, obviously.

>>51390214
No you didn't fix anything you did it worse

>>51390198
I was pointing at the ridiculous time scale given by the post. it's been out barely a year. Remember when the sabbat started as fucking clowns, but a few years later they started publishing sabbat books? You've got a lot more to chew on than a year of nothing

>>51390292

Are... Are you saying... That... Mages are.... Lesser than... Werewolves?

...

..

.

FUCKING WEREFAG GET OUT

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>>51390312
I like to pretend mages don't even exist in either WoD

Hell I'll welcome the fucktards from /v/ at this point, I can't wait for them to come here with their stupid questions

>>51390312

LOL, I know this is bait but I don't give a fuck. You magefags need a storyteller that knows the single, most powerful word one can utter to a mage player: NO.

Most mage faggotry comes about because magefags pester and browbeat their ST to let them do anything they want, until the ST caves in.

I remember playing in a Mage campaign in which 3 other players sat around a closed safe for about 4 real time hours arguing about which spell to use to open it. Turns out the safe was already open. That's how retarded magefags are.

>>51390306
They could have put info for it in the Beast core. They have the room, because they moved all the basic rules to the Chronicles of Darkness core. Even if it increased the cost by $5 - 10, you'd be getting twice as much gameplay from one book. There's a reason all 13 clans are in Masquerade cores these days.

>>51390350
>I remember playing in a Mage campaign in which 3 other players sat around a closed safe for about 4 real time hours arguing about which spell to use to open it. Turns out the safe was already open. That's how retarded magefags are.
This is a lie.

If it's not a lie and you sat there for 4 hours listening to bickering, then you're also retarded.

So are you a liar or a retard?

>>51390380

I was also a player, but my character wasn't in the same room as them. Luckily, the ST let us play our scenes in tandem, so the other two of us got to do shit while the rest were being fags around the safe. The ST found it hilarious.

>>51390376
and vtm started with 7clans it's first year, that's not a valid parallel

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Question. What is the second strongest splat after Mage?

>>51390411
>Safe is already open and the DM doesn't point it out

1/10, wouldn't play with.
>>51390456
Demon

>>51390226
I would get behind that.
I want werewolf porn. Not furry porn, mind, I want the savagery.
If we can get vampires and blood as well? Yeah. Sign me up.

>>51390456
At what?

>>51390509

In-general.

>>51388215
>Don't forget the girl who is apparently a bad person because she fought back against her rapis- I mean a totally pure and innocent beast.
Notto disu shittu agen, why didn't they learn their lesson from comagirl?

>>51390514
Impossible then. All other splats are specialists. Mages are the only generalists.

>>51390483
He's actually a bretty gud storyteller. He just enjoys BTFOing players when they are being retards. And they were. He didn't point it out because theu spent more time metagaming and minmaxing than playing and was already tired of their shit. The rest had a bloody good time.

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...........so does anyone wanna talk about Hunter games? I've uh, got some creepy/wod-flavored images to share?

>>51390531

>Impossible then
Not impossible. You're using a cop-out to feel better about whichever splat you love most.

>Mages are the only generalists
Mages are arguably the most specialized splat if you build them into a specific area. Other than that I can agree.

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>>51390539

>>51390539
No. We want to shit on everything that isn't Mage because somebody found his new favorite thing to do.

>>51390531
Mummy and Demon I would say are up there in terms of raw power compared to other splats.

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>>51390456
>>51390514

God Tier
>Archmage

Top Tier
>Prep Mage
>Loud Demon
>Fresh Mummy

Middle Tier
>Mage
>Mummy
>Sin-Eater
>Beast
>Werewolf
>Demon
>Promethean


Street Tier
>Changeling
>Vampire
>Surprised mage
>Prep Hunter
>Hunter

>>51390424
That was written 20 years ago. Are you saying the company is doomed to repeat it's own mistakes and never learn? Are you saying that books published more recently and that were better received shouldn't model future products?

They had how long to come up with the Beast core? How many re-writes?

Please stop apologizing for mediocrity.

>>51390539
Yes, drown out the bullshit with quality. Report those who troll excessively and repeat unwarranted catchphrases like this is /b/. Make the World of Darkness Great Again.

>>51390537
>bretty gud storyteller
>lets retards and minmaxing metagamers stay in his group without telling them to stop
Why are you still lying?

>>51390598
When Arcadia sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending Mages, They're not sending Acanthus. They’re sending Changelings that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re glamour addicts. And some, I assume, are good people.

>>51390563

Seems accurate enough.

>>51390621

>Donald Trump Mage Supremacist

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>>51390598
Idea: Alt-Right Invictus Prince rises to power despite opposition from Circle of the Crone Den Mother who was favored to win

Has plans to erect wall around city to keep out trespassing werewolves and religious extremist hunters

>>51390629
Real low gnosis crowd here tonight I'll tell you that

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>>51390621
>>51390629

>>51390531
Mages can be generalists, but building such a character usually ends up being a waste when you have a Cabal. Does your Moros REALLY need to take Space 3 when you have a Mastigos with Space 4? What's more, most Mages end up taking Legacies, which are basically specializations.

>>51390629
>It's a really good thing that Councilor Trump isn't in charge of enforcing the Lex Magica
>Because you'd be banished?

>>51390563

Didn't realize the Kindred were so weak compared to the rest. I like this list though I think I will save it for future references. But Archmages are too powerful to count.

>>51390672
>>51390652
>>51390629
I love you assholes.

>>51390631
Ech I would make him Ordo Dracul because he is creepy fuck. On secondary note Invictus could at least become prince on a platform of building a trebuchet

>>51390629
The Technocracy were not seeking to deceive anyone, they were just supplying us with an Alternative Consensus....

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>>51390691
>building a trebuchet

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>tfw the ST fucks with my werewolf so much mentally that I'm considering Harano
>tfw you wish for the apocalypse just to stop living anymore

>>51390563
Shouldn't Werewolves be stronger than Beasts? Or am I wrong?

>>51390702
Trebuchet is sound investment

>>51390704
We need details. Then we can come up with a strategy for you to Drop the Fucking Hammer (TM)

>>51390711
Beasts have some pretty bullshit powers.

>>51390711
This list is shit anyway so don't bother. Outside of Mummy/Demon/Mage there isn't such a big power gap between rest of the splats(excluding hunters but that is to be expected)

>>51390731

>This list is shit

I have a feeling you're only saying that because Vampires landed so low.. .. ..

hey guys, I'm trying to decide what was the most idiotic thing Justin Achilli ever wrote.

was it,

a) that Caine could not have been the First Generation because he was Caine and therefore there must have been a Generation between Caine and the Second Generation even if this was never mentioned before?

or

b) that XP purchases stating "Current Level x3" are not in fact referring to the actual current level of that ability, but what the current level will be after you increase it?

>>51390745
Nah Demon.

>>51390711
A Beast with the right starting build and a fancy enough rape dungeon can twat someone with the Statue of Liberty.

Trust me, it's broken as it can get.

>>51390760
>tfw you will never be brain damaged enough to work for Rich Thomas

Why was I born with a functional cerebral cortex, God?

>>51390765

>Nah Demon.

Oh? So where you place a normal quiet Demon within the list, then?

I'm curious, is all. My experiences with Demon suggests that they're rather not-powerful unless they Go Loud.

>>51390760
>b) that XP purchases stating "Current Level x3" are not in fact referring to the actual current level of that ability, but what the current level will be after you increase it?
Wait, is this really how it's supposed to work?

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>>51390760
>Caine could not have been the First Generation because he was Caine and therefore there must have been a Generation between Caine and the Second Generation
what the fuck am i even reading

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>>51390679

Vampires are easily one of the weakest game-lines in CofD. Doesn't make then any less popular despite an increasing influx of angry players.

>>51390841

Even I, a Mage supremacist, find this to be a tad bit retarded.

>>51390745
I fundamentally reject such lists on the basis that they are nothing more than personal preference. These lines are not designed for crossover, and within their own lines each Splat is king. It's as pointless as bickering about "which flavor of ice cream is the best". If any of you saw two bepectacled gentlemen having harsh words over whether Gandalf could defeat Magneto in a duel, you'd all mock them until the proverbial cows came home. So what makes this any different?

>>51390826
No, it was only ever argued that way by Achilli in Revised
>>51390841
Vampire Revised, page 56.
>Skeptical Kindred have noted a lapse in the myth of Caine: If Caine's first childer are of the Second Generation, and thereby two steps removed from Caine, what, if anything, was the FIrst Generation? Certainly, Caine himself is not "First Generation" as he can hardly be one step removed from himself.

>>51390863

>These lines are not designed for crossover

Which is exactly the reason why such lists are made.

>whether Gandalf could defeat Magneto in a duel

That's a very silly comparison to the topic at hand.

>>51390863
You're damn right I would mock them. What a stupid argument.

Gandalf would own Magneto.

>>51390875
Is First Generation not used to describe the original?

>>51390863
You can fundamentally reject it all you want. It doesn't make it any less true. Not all splats are equal to one another. Stop being a SJW faggot.

>and within their own lines each Splat is king.

Until crossover happens. Which is why we need lists to prevent this from happening. How is this not clicking with you?

>>51390848

>Vampires
>Weakest

HAHAHahaha..... ....yeah, you're right about that. I'm going to go cry now.

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>>51390875
>Certainly, Caine himself is not "First Generation" as he can hardly be one step removed from himself.
Isn't Generation 0 Lillith? Wasn't that the whole point of the antediluvians throwing their lot in with her?

What is so special about World of Darkness compared to other FRPG games?

>>51390785
All in all I would place it on par with mummy and mummy will fall of as the time goes where demon has normal progression. If we are talking combat application demon can have aggravated damage from the get go without breaking the sweat. Demonic form even without going loud has a lot of bullshit powers like teleporting over continents and so on.

Even outside of combat you have things like instalearning skills, mimicking other supernatural powers, changing laws of physics in the area. Also you can turn into Optimus Prime with Demonic Car

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>>51390911

It has Mages.

>>51390904
I don't see that. Outside of the obvious fact that vamps are boned during the day time so there's that.

>>51390911
the fans
special does not mean good

>>51390938

Who needs sunlight when you can have a Mage?

FIXED

God Tier
>Archmage

Top Tier
>Prep Mage
>Loud Demon
>Fresh Mummy

Middle Tier
>Mage
>Demon
>Sin-Eater
>Mummy
>Beast
>Werewolf
>Promethean


Street Tier
>Changeling
>Vampire
>Surprised mage
>Prep Hunter
>Hunter

>>51390971
Always thought Promethean was stronger than werewolf. Also if someone really did read the thing why is Beast so high?

>>51390896
It doesn't prevent shit. It's an exercise in preference, it has nothing to do with perceived equality.

>seeing SJW's under every table

reddit just called, they want their village idiot back

>>51390990

>It doesn't prevent shit

You're absolutely right, Anon! Nothing can prevent certain splats from being greater & lesser than the others! Because that's how CofD is supposed to be. Balance is a myth.

>>51390987

Beasts are pretty strong.

>>51390880
>>These lines are not designed for crossover
>Which is exactly the reason why such lists are made.

Oh, and you're going to do what, exactly? Post it up at your FLGS to "splat-shame" players into knowing their place in your imaginary hierarchy? Repeat it in your private echo chamber and defend your personal preferences like they mean anything more than HURR DURR I LIEK CHOCALATE?

Your smug assurances about Archmages don't mean shit if I choose not to include them in my games. The same applies to any Splat I choose not to include in my games. End of discussion.

>>whether Gandalf could defeat Magneto in a duel
>That's a very silly comparison to the topic at hand.
Mutant Splat vs. Mage Splat. It's a direct 1-1 translation of what you idiots are masturbating over. None of your little pecking order lists change a fucking thing about anyone else's games but your own. You come up with these asinine arguments about who would fuck over who, when there are far too many variables INCLUDING the dice to prevent such guarantees.

Just go watch Deadliest Warrior repeats and rub one out or something, for fuck's sake.

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>>51391063

The salt Is real.

>>51390987
They can do shit like fly, be super strong, and cause natural disasters.

>>51391063
This is why the magefags always win. Their opponents can never keep calm.

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>>51391063
Chill the fuck out dude.

>>51391075
>>51391086

Yes, I'm angry! This thread is supposed to be a discussion about the World of Darkness games, but you fuckwits shit it up by acting like /b/tards. I thought once Aspel was gone we'd be able to have threads that function like EVERY OTHER THREAD on /tg/, but no, you morons have to masturbate like a bunch of baboons for THIRTEEN STRAIGHT THREADS. As of this moment, I've had enough. Anyone trolling these threads will be reported for violation of Global Rule #3, posting trolling and off-topic bullshit outside of /b/. it has the added benefit of hiding your asinine chimp noises so I can parse the thread without your word-vomit lowering my IQ.

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>>51391123

>posting trolling and off-topic bullshit outside of /b/

>just went full retard

>>51391126

I was wondering when you'd show up

>>51391123
>says he's going to report violations of rule #3
>when it's actually #6 that's being broken
>therefore breaking rule #7
Good luck with that. Nothing will change.

Someone is legitimately angry. The Magefags have outdone themselves this time.

>>51391151
1) The wording clearly states that replying a post and saying you reported it is a violation. I said that I would from that point on. Everyone is supposed to follow global rules anyway. That's why they're global rules.
2) It hides the post. It changes things perfectly for me.

>>51391170

No one gives a single fuck what you think, Anon. You're just giving more credit to the Mage supremacists. You already lost this.

So, let's get back to Mage supremacy. How do we fix goddamned Acanthus?

>>51391225

Fix? You're funny, my good Anon!

>>51390679
They're not. They're certainly not on the level of mortals and Hunters. I don't think that guy has actually read 2e.

1e nWoD vampires were pretty shit though yeah.

>>51391235
Fix, because as they are, there is just no reason to play another Path.

>>51391241
Nah. Vampires are pretty shit. The list is mostly accurate. Especially the top three. Archmages by definition are the strongest things playable and shouldn't be included.

>>51391241
Yup 1e Vamp and Wolf are shit tier. Dunno about the wolf but vamps got leg up in 2e

>>51391123
Reporting you for reporting on your reporting of the other guys.

>>51391251

Werewolf 2e is quite beefy. Far stronger than Vampire 2e. Mage is slightly more powerful than before. Still the strongest splat in terms of potential.

Don't Demons have an extremely poorly phrased power which goes something along the lines of "make any cause create any effect", which RAW confers omnipotence because nothing is preventing you from saying "I scratch my nose, and the effect is I control the universe"?

>>51391321

No

>>51391321
>extremely poorly phrased
Sums up all of both WoD.

Do you guys often suffer a situation where your game turns lighter and softer than you planed and instead of horror you get supernatural drama or buddy copshow?

>>51390545
>>51390653

No no! I meant that Mages in general, are generalists. A Mage can, in theory, become a specialist in anything.

>>51391413

>A Mage can, in theory, become a specialist in anything.

Mages can become the most specialized splat. Period. An Apprentice of Spirit can do things even an Elder Uratha cannot, according to The Pack.

How hard would it be to siege the Tremere chantry in Vienna?

>>51391440
Very.

>>51391440

Which splat is sieging?

>>51391450
Vamp

>>51391440
Almost impossible to actually succeed.

>>51391440
Take the Giovanni. They have a heavy presence in Vienna and the Tremere never really nailed Necromancy. It's a blind spot you could use.

>>51391480
>>51391461
>>51391440

Just hire some Mages. Blood magic isn't really a threat to True Magick.

>>51391515
Mages would be BTFO almost instantly. House Tremere used to be mages, and know how mages operate, know the weaknesses and what to exploit in a mage. The Tremere are familiar with mages and magic, but mages not so much with kindred thanks to The Masquerade. If there is one faction you don't want to be in while sieging the Chantry in Vienna, is mages. Tremere himsrlf is in there. An almost ante-deluvian.

>>51391613

You keep thinking that. Blood magic is explicitly inferior to True Magick.

>know the weaknesses of Mages

It's actually reversed. The Order of Hermes loathes the Tremere and knows exactly what weaknesses they have. The one canon instance of a street fight between a single Hermetic and a couple of Tremere ended with the Tremere running for their lives.

Mages do not fear the Tremere. It's the exact fucking opposite. They do not know how Awakened magick works and it scares the shit out of them. Not to mention Mages can kill Vampires without even being there.

So now that Hurt Locker and Secrets of the Covenants have been out for a while and we've had time to go over their content, what are your thoughts on the books?

>>51391461
Take Tzimisce. They hate Tremere viciously, have access to Koldunic sorcery to counter thaumaturgy and have an edge with Vicissitude. Would be a hard thing to do though, the chantry in Vienna is nigh impenetrable.

>>51391660

My favorite aspect of Masquerade is the generous amount of various Blood magics. I am a big fan of Koldunic sorcery and how at the peak of their power can transmute themselves into a legitimate dragon.

The Tzmisce are also on good terms with western Mages due to their shared hatred of the clan Tremere. They are also both hoarders of knowledge so probably haggle well with eachother.

>>51391696
Yeah.
That's a weakness of Requiem.
Only two systems?
And both practically the same?
Yeah.
You can't make a vampire game that lacking.
Black magic is at the core of vampire stories!

>>51391654
The Order of Hermes loathes the Tremere, but they don't know shit about Vampires or thaumaturgy. it's precisely the fear of Magic what gives the Tremere the edge in their home turf. We're not talking about a group of recently turned apprentices against a couple of members of the Order of Hermes. We're talking the Home of Tremere himself, who used to be a member of said order, and who right now is efectively an Antedeluvian, with other powerful members of his clan behind him. Thaumaturgy, while agreeing that is an inferior form of magic, can also kill without the Tremere even being there, and the Tremere have rituals and counters to magic precisely because of the fear they have of Mages.

Paranoia can be one hell of a motivator.

>>51391659
SotC was... disappointing, to say the least. Especially when compared to The Pack.

>>51391659
I'm planning to buy Hurt Locker myself so I will know shortly

>>51391716

>don't know shit about Vampires or Thaumaturgy

Explicitly untrue in pretty much any source material you can find on the matter. You are being blinded by bias.

>It's precisely the fear of Magic what gives the Tremere the edge

This doesn't make any sense. The Tremere have no advantage against the Hermetics other than their form of countermagics which pales in comparison to the Hermetics version.

>Tremere an Antediluvian

Tremere was a piss poor Mage in life who made the mistake of even becoming Kine. He's the laughing stock of the Order even now. You also fail to forget that Archmages can surpass Antediluvians in raw power depending on their spheres. Porthos Fitz-Empress is more than a match for Tremere.

The Ravnos Antediluvian wasn't even killed with the Archspheres to begin with.

>>51391711

The current stereotype of Vampires in urban fantasies bothers me somewhat. Writers like to think that they're unlocked from magic upon becoming bloodsuckers. Yet classic Bram Stroker's Dracula was described as a powerful sorcerer. One of the ten apprentices of an ancient being within the walls of Scholomance.

It also makes you wonder who the other nine sorcerers were.

>>51391767
Why don't you download it from the pastebin first? See wether it's worth your money first.

Guys, I never come to generals but I wanted to ask this: is it wrong to create a thread about a specific scenario, say WtA while there's a /WoDG/ still up?
Thanks in advance.

We should just make a new thread and set this one on fire. Anyone?

>>51391797
You'd probably be better off. These threads are nothing but shitposting.

>>51390483
>>Safe is already open and the DM doesn't point it out

If the safe door is actually *ajar* that's different, because then they'd instantly get to see that "Oh yeah, it's already open" and the ST should point such things out; anything the players can *see* should always be described, at least in general detail. If the ST didn't do that, then yeah he's a bad ST.

But if the safedoor was unlocked but closed, then they *should* have tried to actually open it before engaging in a 3-hour long argument over what spell to use to open it. At that point, you're dealing with a bunch of retarded players, rather than a retarded ST.

>>51391711
There's plenty more than that, but they tend to be based around Bloodlines so good luck finding a teacher.

>>51390971

This is a fine good list. Sad to see Vampires so low, but it isn't necessarily untrue.

>>51391892
Which really sucks, to be honest. I'm still trying to make a semi-decent version of Necromancy as a covenant discipline.

>>51391321
It's a Cacophony Embed, Cause and Effect.

>>51390971
What is a fresh mummy? Any fast explanation?

>>51392137
A mummy that has been recently awakened and his extremely powerful despite being senile.

>>51391892
Fine.
So how many vampires in a bloodline?
10? 20?
That's how many vampires know each of them.
So practically speaking, only the mainstream methods exist.
And those are identical.
So there is really one kind of blood magic.
Requiem is shit.

How much action do vampires usually see? I mean, how common is mortal combat for them?

>>51392334
Varies with the ST, usually the players will make the story lean toward combat and action if the PCs are built for it. Sometimes the ST might screw everything up by leaving social characters useless focusing on the combat PCs of the party or the other way around. It can be a murderfest or just politics with fangs, really.

>>51392334
I guess the amount of action drops as they grow older because most of the power struggle vamps face is on social level and oneupmenship than direct confrontation. When you are neonate you at least get called to clean up your sires garbage now and than.

>>51390886
So you know absolutely nothing about Magneto I am guessing? 616 Magneto doesn't just control metal he controls electromagnetism one of the four fundamental forces of the universe. His feats are million times more impressive than Gandalf

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anyone else think the idea of playing a mummy is retarded?

>>51392840
I do why the fuck would you play anything other than a mage or maybe demon. Vamps are shitty goth rejects, werewolfs are edgy furries, changlings are lol so randumb speshul snowflakes and geists are op spooks

>>51392840
I think the idea of playing anything that is not a Mage is retarded

>>51392371
>>51392376
What would you say your average neonate usually deals with combat-wise?

>>51393056
Gangbangers and thugs, low-level mob enforcers, the police, private security, maybe the occasional ghoul, and of course fellow neonates. If the Sabbat is making an incursion into the city, then some shovelhead fledglings and terrified Sabbat ghouls. A szlachta is about the most powerful thing they can take on and stand a decent chance of winning

IF YOU LIKE, scroll up to the top and check out my Vampire Monster Manual for statistics for ordinary mortals and ghouls. Headhunters (adapted from V:tM Bloodlines) are probably ideal for "monstrous" foes.

>>51392861
>>51392931
holy shit I am brand new to these generals but you faggots are terrible

>>51393056
What an above anon said but adjusting to CofD slasher, hell hound, Hunters one on one also are not big of a threat

>>51390584
>stop apologizing for mediocrity.
as soon as you start designing games. The tools to play and run the game are in your hands. try running one I hear they're fun. Don't be mad you have to work for it. cause you'll find in RL space you work for every thing

>>51391063
>Just go watch Deadliest Warrior repeats and rub one out or something, for fuck's sake.
kek

New thread early edition.

>>51393342

>>51393120

>>51389856
Killing the thread

>>51393349
no fuck your mage supremacy bullshit threads

>>51393367
Dude, I'm ambivalent towards mages as best. Vampire is where it's at.

>>51387847
The antagonist for the splat SHOULD be ghosts. It's just that ghosts in 1e were one of the weakest (if not THE weakest) forms of supernatural being, while Sin-Eaters were roughly on par with Mages while not being up against the entire universe, actual gods, and hostile anti-reality (not to mention Mage at least having a theme about being absurdly powerful, while none of Geist's themes demand a high power level), so ghosts were a fucking joke.

2e potentially fixed this by giving ghosts scaling Rank, and then probably fucked it up again by restricting actual ghosts to Ranks 1 and 2 (and then you get into shit like Geists).

>>51388340
Meanwhile, David Hill is over there deciding Changeling's tagline needs to go because "Beautiful Madness" is insensitive to the mentally ill.

Do these devs ever talk to each other?

>>51389436
yeah, MacFarland said something along the line that Heroes will never become playable as long as he has control over the line

>>51389861
hopefully, C20 fixes this

>>51390230
Have you read M20? Or noticed the trends with sidebars in recent OPP publications?

>>51390563
If we're including things like Demon (and if werewolves are in mid-tier) we're in 2e, and Vampires should be in mid-tier. Vampires got a hell of an upgrade.

>>51390350
Wrong
you never tell no to a mage player
you say yes and let hubris do the rest
you are playing a game about the endless possibility of magic and the price you pay to achieve it.
"I am mage, I can do anything" will always be my favorite tagline for a game.

>>51390826
No. It says "current level" because it means current level, which is why the first dot has a separate XP cost (since the "current level" there would be 0, so the first dot in anything would cost 0).

The alternative is "new dots*X", which should probably read "new rating". Buying two dots in a merit (which costs new dots*2) doesn't cost 4 XP.

>>51390906
>Isn't Generation 0 Lillith? Wasn't that the whole point of the antediluvians throwing their lot in with her?
She technically would be in that she was of the same generation as Adam and Eve, and Caine was their offspring, yes.

She's not any generation of vampire, though.

Hello /tg i am going to run my first forsaken 2nd game but i am having problems wrapping my head around the spirit world what book wouls you recommend for that?

>>51391660
>have access to Koldunic sorcery to counter thaumaturgy
At least judging by V20, Koldunic Sorcery doesn't do anywhere near the kind of shit Thaumaturgy does. It's all big flashy elemental attacks.

>>51391797
Considering the quality of these threads I'd advise always starting a new thread if you want real responses.

>>51392137
Mummies wake up with a power stat of 10 and no idea who they are.

After a scene some of their memories and self-awareness come back, and their power stat then starts dropping the longer they're awake until eventually they go back to their death-sleep until the next time some asshole wakes them up.

>>51389861
>Science is Banal because it explains away magic and mystery?
>Changelings are Insane Clown Posse

>>51393986
>i am having problems wrapping my head around the spirit world what book wouls you recommend for that?
The spirit world appendix in the first edition corebook for Werewolf is still the best writeup it's ever gotten.

>>51393986
Art by the artist... Browinski? Brozwinksi?
Forgot his name, but he does some surreal, macabre landscapes that I used for the spirit world.

>>51394084

Thanks!

>>51389646
I don't know but Vampires can force people to have spooky lewd dreams in VtR 2E and they get beats from them

>>51389920
This seems like a good take on Dracula to me. He's just misunderstood.

>>51388422
>Beast is by far the worst gameline in the history of either World of Darkness.
Counter-argument: World of Darkness: Gypsies.

>>51390539
Sure. I have never played Hunter, but I like the concept and I am looking forward to 2E. Do you think all Hunters will start with dots in the Profession merit, or do you think they will make a new mechanic to make cells different from mortals? How do you think Endowments will work, or will they just be c&c specific merits? Do you think it would be possible to play a game all the way from tier 1 to tier 3?

>>51388422
> I'd rather play Changeling the Dreaming with a room full of mental patients huffing nitrous oxide than spend five minutes in a game that broken, shitty, juvenile and victim-shaming.

So you play a Beast in a game centered around another splat.

>>51388757
>Very much this. Beast is an atrocious product, and if you actually identify with these monsters you need professional help.
I dunno. I remember when it first came out, I made one based on Emiya Shirou. Sure, he might have monster powers, but he's going to use them to become a superhero, darn it!

>>51395110
>So you play a Beast in a game centered around another splat.
For what purpose? It just wouldn't fit at all.

>>51393746
Obviously we need to make a fansplat based around Heroes.

>>51395268
>For what purpose? It just wouldn't fit at all.
Because you're playing a Beast Emiya Shirou who's hanging out with Mage Tohsaka Rin and the rest of her wizard buddies, of course.

Also because Beast was intended as a crossover-friendly splat to begin with.

>>51395317
Well, first, I'd give them the ability to gain new powers by killing other Heroes as well as from killing Beasts, because Heroes getting into wars and killing each other is at least as common in our literary history as Heroes killing Monsters.

Also because there's already one famous story about mythical Heroes in the modern day that such a game would inevitably draw inspiration from.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BJrInVmg8w

>>51395377
>Because you're playing a Beast Emiya Shirou who's hanging out with Mage Tohsaka Rin and the rest of her wizard buddies, of course.
This is stupid. I sincerely hope you don't actually inject weeb shit into your games.

>Also because Beast was intended as a crossover-friendly splat to begin with.
Doesn't mean that's how it turned out. Beast does nothing to solve balance issues (it arguably makes them worse), and it doesn't have any unifying themes that really justify a bunch of different splats overcoming the reasons that their books give as to why they shouldn't get too close to other supernaturals.

>>51394047
Thanks for the explanation. Is mummy any fun to play? Do they band together? Never found a copy of it to read.

>>51395268
Beasts are good antagonists for every splat, the creepy thing that stalks into your haven and says it is your long-lost cousin and that killing children is an okay thing to do because zhe does it all the time. Even the Strix, Scelesti, Pure, True Fae etc are appalled and aid in the destruction of them whenever they are found