/osrg/ OSR General - Something Something Edition

Where did people get figures appropriate for CHAINMAIL back in the day?

>>51356927

Do you have the 7th Print just released on DMsGuild?

I can clean that.

>>51373098

BTW, I was the one that made that 3rd edition 2nd print.

>>51359921

You wouldn't happen to have a copy of Outdoor Geomorphs, only missing 1 geomorph page.

Not sure if the Critkeeper sysop haunts /osrg/, but your Trove link is dead.

>>51373114
In that case you might like to know that your Man-to-Man table in it has a typo -- "Drone" for prone in the footnote about stabbing plate-armored men.

>>51372928
I think I remember reading that they used 54mm Elastolin figures.

How about this as a thread question:

Are there any retroclones you find interesting but don't use yourself and/or don't see a lot of discussion about on /osrg/? What's the most interesting thing about them?

>>51372928
"The LGTSA Medieval Miniatures Rules were developed primarily for use with Elastolin and Starlux figures, which are 40mm scale. However, they may be used equally well with any scale — including the inexpensive Airfix "Robin Hood" and "Sheriff of Nottingham" 25mm plastic figures."

What'd be the best way to understand chainmail? Use a retroclone? Are there any even?

>>51374619
>What'd be the best way to understand chainmail?
I'm not sure what's so tough about it, but asking in the thread's probably your best bet.

I'm not the same anon as the one asking just now, but I do have a question about Chainmail that's connected to the stuff discussed last thread.

So a hero is defined as a man with the power of four men, and requires four simultaneous hits in one round to be killed. How does this work in man-to-man combat? It seems like in all cases of man-to-man combat, the person to land a blow will kill the defendant. So what happens when, say, a light footman goes head-to-head with a hero? Or is this not possible? Are only men of the same power allowed to engage in man-to-man combat?

>>51374855
>So a hero is defined as a man with the power of four men, and requires four simultaneous hits in one round to be killed. How does this work in man-to-man combat?
It's actually very simple. Consider that the actual phrasing of the Hero's durability is that "four simultaneous kills must be scored to eliminate them". One man can score one kill against the Hero in Man-to-Man, just as you observe.

>So what happens when, say, a light footman goes head-to-head with a hero?
He attacks, and, if successful, scores one of the requisite four kills for that round.

>Or is this not possible?
No, it's possible alright. It's just that in practice, any lone regular figure going up against a Hero is stone fucked. His attacks alone can't eliminate the Hero, no matter how successful, and the Hero gets four chops against him. On the other hand, if you were to assault the Hero with six or seven enemies at once, their concerted efforts in MTM may well overwhelm him.

>Are only men of the same power allowed to engage in man-to-man combat?
On the contrary, actually: Heroes don't fight one another in MTM at all, they use the Fantasy Combat Table, where each may instantly slay the other.

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>>51374110
Mutant Future. I just love it's take on mashing B/X and Gamma World, but I dunno a soul who plays or talks about it here.

>>51375020
So a footman all by himself really has a 0% chance to win against a hero, considering that he can only make one attack per round?

And if heroes and supernatural beings use the fantasy combat table, then I'm assuming that man-to-man is more about normal soldiers battling one-on-one? In those cases I guess the "simultaneous hits" rules don't come up since footmen are weak.

Man, I just wish some of this stuff was presented in a different way, but I guess that's not how wargames do things. Some form of quick statblock like "Hero - four attacks per round, four simultaneous hits to defeat" would have been nice.

>>51375381
>So a footman all by himself really has a 0% chance to win against a hero, considering that he can only make one attack per round?
Correct. Also the Hero is going to mash his face into the ground with the fury of a lightning bolt.

>And if heroes and supernatural beings use the fantasy combat table, then I'm assuming that man-to-man is more about normal soldiers battling one-on-one?
They use the Fantasy Combat Table *against one another*. They don't use it against anything that's not *on* the table, which is why the rules specify that a Hero "fights like four men" -- so that you know how to regulate him fighting in mass combat, or in MTM.

But yes, at its root MTM is about normal soldiers battling one-on-one; it wasn't developed specifically for any of the fantasy parts, but mainly for scenarios such as skirmishes, a castle siege and so on where having each figure count as 20 men doesn't make any damn sense.

In general, it's best if you read the Fantasy Supplement to Chainmail as just that -- a supplement. It's bolted on, it's not integral to the working of the rules. (From our perspective coming at it from D&D, it's easy to think of it that way, like the fantasy rules are the main purpose. That might get in the way of understanding stuff properly.)

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>>51375093
Man I just got the book for MF, and man it's awesome, but I don't talk talk much about it A) because I have yet to run a game with it, and am still reading up on it, and B) /osrg/ has not been at it's friendliest lately.

>>51375538
Alright, I think I get it a bit more now. Thanks for the help!

>>51368222
Interior awareness (self-evaluation) and exterior awareness (instincts and senses).

I use Charisma for willpower since I think personal magnetism is a reflection of self-confidence which is a reflection of willpower.

http://save.vs.totalpartykill.ca/grab-bag/madlibs/

Here's an interesting new tool. I'm probably going to use this with modules I kind of like but want to remove things from or change things in.

>>51376599
Am I crazy or do I just not see the potential use of the tool?
The way I see it, it's more work than just redesign things and stealing cool ideas.

>>51372928
Post-Chainmail, getting into early D&D, Gygax used all kinds of stuff. There's some comments on it in one of the early books - IIRC 10mm figures for hobbits or pixies, 40mm persians? as orcs? I thought he went with 30mm for basic humans though. I can't find the grogthreads I read on it right now.

Also a note to people looking into this stuff - "25mm" can mean a lot of stuff to early grogs, from 1/72 (what we'd now call 20mm) figures to what we'd now call 25mm, all the way up to 30mm. Basically it took a hell of a long time for people to settle down and at least agree to disagree on a convenient fiction for figure scale

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>>51376697
This is what Zak Smith used it for. He liked many of the hex descriptions in Carcosa but needed to season it to his own campaign.

>>51376730
>>51374321
for example, those are 1/72s and these days people would call them 20mm.

The airfix robin hood stuff makes good (thin) hobbits alongside modern 28mm figures though!

>>51376730
>There's some comments on it in one of the early books
Of course I posted that before remembering there's literally a chart in chainmail. That's the starting point, but I have read more details of the miniatures they used for early fantasy chainmail games elsewhere...

>>51376599
>>51376732
It's pretty useless though. I could just jot the changes down in a .txt or a notebook instead of working on this weird generator thing.

>>51374806
Not that Anon, but it has Gygaxian organization and diction.

>>51377440
Mate, it's a wargame. Gygaxian prose is nothing compared to Barkerese.

(Phil Barker, not MAR Barker)

>>51374855
>and requires four simultaneous hits in one round to be killed
They require four simultaneous hits in non-Fantasy combat.
In Fantasy combat, the Hero goes down like butter.

>>51377052
But it's hundreds of places, and he just wants to change all the Carcosa stuff into randomized other stuff. I find that to be pretty handy.

>>51375859
>B)

Is the couple of dumb arguments really all it takes to shut down the possibly interesting discussion?

>>51376730
>There's some comments on it in one of the early books - IIRC 10mm figures for hobbits or pixies, 40mm persians? as orcs? I thought he went with 30mm for basic humans though. I can't find the grogthreads I read on it right now.
PatW mentions all of this stuff at length in its section on minis.

>>51378783
As bad as the handful of trolls are, what makes it unreadable is the mob of angry fa/tg/uys who spam the thread to argue.

Just once, I'd like to see some faggot make an "I don't like thing" post and not see five replies next to the post number.

Does anybody play Chain Mail? Does it measure up at all to good modern war games, or is it just a historical oddity?

15mm fantasy seems like it'd be cool. I could use 28mm dudes as ogres and trolls.

The alternative mass combat system that got posted at dndwithpornstars is sort of interesting, but it seems like it could only work within a narrow scale (50-500 soldiers in battlefield formation).

>>51378783
>>51379124
>As bad as the handful of trolls are, what makes it unreadable is the mob of angry fa/tg/uys who spam the thread to argue.

Yeah, this is exactly what I'm talking about. The last few times I tried to get involved in a discussion, it was immediately drowned out by arguments. You tend to miss anything good, because it always seems to be sandwiched between novel length posts of the same old pissing matches.

>>51378783
The nature of 4chan anonymous posting and generals should tell you that yes, that's all it takes.

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>>51379248
We should start using old-school art images as an indicator that we're starting a new topic, or something.

>>51379395
Actually, not a terrible idea. Makes me a bit annoyed I have to be out the door to work in 2-3 minutes.

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>>51379307
>The nature of 4chan anonymous posting and generals should tell you that yes, that's all it takes.
>>51379248
>>51379124
>>51378783
Case in fucking point.

Anywaaay.


>>51376697
>Am I crazy or do I just not see the potential use of the tool?
>The way I see it, it's more work than just redesign things and stealing cool ideas.
Mostly the use is when you have a LOT of shit you want to process and not a lot of time. You can plug in the cool shit you want to steal (or placeholders) and get it back in semi-random places in the larger document, then tweak it to your taste.
That's as opposed to writing down everything, painstakingly going through and finding the best place for each one-by-one.

Sure, it's lazier, but it's also faster. When I have a couple hours to prepare and a "no Humanoids" policy in my game, it's a Hell of a lot easier to swipe a published text through that to pull the Goblins and Orcs and Bugbears and Elves and fucking Dwerrows or whatever out for some carnivorous Apes and bandit factions.

>>51378928
Here's a timeline of miniature wargaming. Scale creep started in 1964!

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~beattie/timeline2.html

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>>51379469
All I was trying to say is that we need to do better at not feeding the trolls and rageposting.

Pic is something some other anon posted, by early 20th century artist Ephraim Moses Lilien (I think). The guy has some pretty sweet pen and ink drawings. I'd totally buy a book with this style of art.

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>>51379583
>Pic is something some other anon posted, by early 20th century artist Ephraim Moses Lilien
That'd be me, last couple of threads I was talking about lizardmen. Lilien was heavy into Judaica, and did a lot of really cool and inspiring stuff for gaming. I try to post an inspiring or semi-relevant image whenever I post (especially when I'm otherwise shitposting*) as a way to contribute to the thread. Plus, it occasionally turns anons like you onto some really cool art. If you're not familiar with Aleksandr Brodsky, John Bateman, and William Pogany, I strongly suggest you check them out.
Come to think of it, I should probably go back to posting weekly art reviews on my blog again.


*See: the post you replied to, And kinda this one. <.<;;

>>51374110
Not strictly a retroclone, but I'm fond of The Gene Hack's Form/Flux mechanics for character creation, where your stats determine just what kind of genetic mishap you'll be playing as.

>>51378178
>he just wants to change all the Carcosa stuff into randomized other stuff. I find that to be pretty handy.

I find it pretty dumb and pointless.
"Inside the cave are 1d6 GATOR-MEN armed with CHAINSWORDS and wearing POLICE UNIFORMS. Each carries 3d4 STONE PHALLUSES"
It literally adds nothing.

>>51374110
Heroes & Other Worlds, because it's basically a streamlined GURPS

>>51379877
>It literally adds nothing.
It adds the fact that you can take that revised text and use it in your own game.

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>>51379877
>Inside the cave are 1d6 GATOR-MEN armed with CHAINSWORDS and wearing POLICE UNIFORMS. Each carries 3d4 STONE PHALLUSES

Oh man, is that the new LotFP module?

>>51380136
Needs more apocalypse triggers. The chainswords summon half of a randomly determined cthulhu on a critical; when two appropriate halves are summoned together by two criticals from different chainswords on the same round, the cthulhu awakens.

The stone phalluses are just inert stone dildos.

>>51380650

Pretty good, but needs some work. The dildos are currency among the local tribe, perhaps?
Fund it!

>>51378783
>Is the couple of dumb arguments really all it takes to shut down the possibly interesting discussion?
honestly yes

Is there a table somewhere that I can roll on to see what's in a hobgoblin/orcs war chest?

>>51382428
1d10
1 Erotic poetry of Elf cuckoldry genre
2 A letter from his dad telling the owner how proud he is
3 A very intricate ensemble of bone and feather ornaments
4 A sealed letter with a noble's seal upon it
5 A dead, but strangely clean, rat
6 The shrunken heads of 7 goblins/halfling/kobolds
7 Aromatic salts
8 An invisible dagger; character reaching into the chest must make a Dex check or accidentally stab himself
9 A treatise in goblin/orc debating the morality of mating with non-goblins/non-orcs
10 A second smaller chest; roll again to see what's inside it

>>51383000
>2 A letter from his dad telling the owner how proud he is

Let it be known that whomsoever possesses this letter is entitled to the respect of Thrul the Terrible, Orc lord of the Northern Wastes. I'm proud of you son/letter holder.

>>51383163
>what follows is a D&D version of The Addams Family movie with the orciest/ugliest PC pretending to be Thrul's long-lost son so the party can steal Thrul's loot

What was that OSR that let you roll for different things in your character and was all about creating the village you live in as much as creating the character you are playing?

I find that interesting and I'd love to read it, but can't remember which game it was

>>51383409
That's Beyond the Wall, I think.

>>51383409
Beyond the Wall and Other Adventures

>>51383426
>>51383430
Exactly! Thanks a lot anons

Does anyone have a link?

>>51384116
Sure, the OP does.

>>51384116
Check trove, in pastebin, in OP.

>>51384151
>>51384152

Well I guess I'm an idiot cause I hadn't seen the trove the first time I checked

Thanks!

>>51384307
Nah, easy mistake
It was *in* the OP for the longest time, but it kept getting DMCA'd (or whatever)
Still happens, but waaaaaay~ less often than it used to

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Who uses the original monster tables from odnd? How do they work in a dungeon?

What are some cool things I can do with an encounter in a goblin kitchen?

I know there is a bugbear chef and two sous-chef goblins.

I know that there is a shitload of haphazard cooking that makes a lot of noise.

Maybe the goblins throw hot food at them, like splashing stew?

The bugbear will have a huge cleaver.

>>51385992
Assorted "ingredients" that are still alive (like a box full of chittering stingbugs for the chittering stingbug fried pie)

A human-sized meat grinder.

A door to a cold-storage room with a bound ice elemental powering it.

There is a trove of expensive spices and herbs that the goblins looted from some caravan.

The goblins' recipe book (actually an old grimoire) zaps anyone not wearing the bugbear chef's hat when approached.

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>>51385992
The treasure should include poison gas.
One of the sous-chefs has pocket sand.
There are stray daggers all over the counters.
There is a third goblin, dead in the stew.
The floor has rotten intestines everywhere (slippery).
They can loot the recipe book. It's actually pretty nice.

>shitload of haphazard cooking that makes a lot of noise.
The goblins shout for reinforcements, but they never arrive.

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>>51383258
honestly the odds are pretty good that I'd include an expy of the extended Addams clan in my setting somewhere(with a large percentage of the setting's human adventurers either being part of it or ending up marrying into it)

>>51385992
>>51386099
>>51386112
1d4 Shwarma Golems, shwarma being a favored way of cooking large amounts of meat among the Goblin hordes, the golem magic is used as a form of preservative, properly cast a Shwarma Golem will remain hot, juicy, and fresh for potentially weeks(not to mention it discourages goblins from sneaking pieces outside of scheduled meal times as Shwarma Golems are hostile to anyone who gets within 5 feet of them that aren't dressed as a cook or accompanied by one)

>>51386299
>a local orc tribe tasks the PCs to bring them an unspoiled shwarma golem for research, as their own sausage monsters do not last as long during marching conditions

How do you handle encounters where players are being attacked by enemies they cannot reach?

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This d12 Skillset for LotFP:

1. Offers condensed 5e style skills to the game, for people who are into that.
2. Offers characters other than the Specialist a chance to be decent at some skills.
3. Characters also have a chance to be terrible at some.
3. Still protects the Specialist's niche.

After I made it, I integrated it into my Ruinations homebrew. Hopefully it'll make some OSR blasphemers happy.

>>51385992
Barrels of flammable grease/butter.
Crates of live frogs/rats that might cause combatant to fall.
Toxic leftovers; saves vs Poison or spend one turn vomiting, unable to act

>>51386378
>the mad wizard Oskar Majoris has used forbidden alchemy to create a ham-and-cheese loaf golem

For those of you who don't use miniatures, how do you keep combat interesting?

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>>51386537
Shit like this. Vivid description.
Making sure they understand their environment.
Unaccounted for things going down. Etc.

Spice up the narration.

>>51386537
I always found it difficult to do *with* miniatures, because I felt like the battle grid instantly makes people start thinking in terms of chess-like movement and attack, rather than imagining the scene.

Though verbal description along can get confusing sometimes with mobs of enemies...

Anybody ever try a sort of middle ground, where minis are just a rough representation instead of a tactical overlay?

>>51386920
Miniatures don't require a grid.

>>51373729
That must have have been from an older version I made, cause this has been corrected and in my trove since at least August.

bit<dot>do/TSRTrove

>>51386982
>>51386920
Hand drawn caves on a whiteboard are you best friend

I'm becoming increasingly interested in creating a huge dungeon and then let a bunch of different people and groups traverse through it during different sessions, changing it in the process. I kind of feel like this style used to be pretty common, but I can't find any good documentation about it.
Has anyone here done a whole campaign set in a megadungeon, which constantly changes with new people entering and moving further down? If so, how did it go? Was it a sustainable model or did it fall apart?

>>51386537
>>51386920

I used to use a whiteboard and made sketches on them, but realized I wanted to keep the maps. So now I get a decently large art/sketch book and draw maps, pictures of monsters, items, etc in it. On the opposite page I make notes as they come up. We add stuff to maps when discovered or changed, and use coloured glass beads and mahjong tiles to keep track of rough positions. It looks cool and I can flip through the book to go over what's happened.

I'm not even that good at it drawing shit, but it goes well with the grit/punk vibe a lot of osr seems to shoot for. Its also cool to see how I've gotten better over time.

Hey /osrg/ If I write an OSR blog how can I add it to the OSR blog list?

>>51387226
It was very successful. I used the random dungeon generator from the 1st Ed. DM's Guide hardback. There were sessions where I would take players aside individually and ask, "Ay, you getting tired of this? Wanna play something else?" And they were all, "NO."

Another thing, they were all running PCs that lots of people would consider generic and boring. But they became unique in and of themselves, even while lacking otherwise flashy gimmicks.

The game ended due to offf-topic infighting. If it weren't for that, we'd have gone on for another 3 years.

>>51388149
Copy-paste into a new pastebin.
Add your blog to the new pastebin.
Wait for the thread's dying breath.
Poach the OP. Switch the blog link.

>>51388330
I get to make the new /osrg/ edition title, cool

>>51379124
>Does anybody play Chain Mail? Does it measure up at all to good modern war games, or is it just a historical oddity?
As far as I'm concerned, it's not old-school enough to be fun, and not remotely modern. I'd rather play Bath, even though he doesn't have fantasy rules IIRC (just a fantasy setting).

Wargames started way before Chainmail - Chainmail, in RPG terms, would be one of the many 80s RPGs, and it suffers for it.

>>51386299
>1d4 Shwarma Golems, shwarma being a favored way of cooking large amounts of meat among the Goblin hordes, the golem magic is used as a form of preservative, properly cast a Shwarma Golem will remain hot, juicy, and fresh for potentially weeks(not to mention it discourages goblins from sneaking pieces outside of scheduled meal times as Shwarma Golems are hostile to anyone who gets within 5 feet of them that aren't dressed as a cook or accompanied by one)
This is a Good Post.

>>51389512
So what are "early" wargames? Kriegsspiel and little Wars?

>>51388149
If you link it, even if it's blank bare bones, I can add it. Same goes for the webtools. There are actually a couple Anon items in the pastebins, including a hex mapper and and a two or three blogs.

>>51389696
Eh, Kriegsspiel is earliest but also kind of a precursor to recreational wargames, and little wars more of a genre-starter. I'm talking Featherstone and contemporaries, 60s and early 70s stuff - chainmail is on the outer edge of the range, but it's on the clunkier side and would probably be mostly forgotten if it hadn't spawned D&D.

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~beattie/timeline2.html

Featherstone's first book was 1962, and while there was stuff beforehand, that's where it really kicked off. Morschauser’s worth a read too, from the same year. Charge! was 1967. Advanced War Games was 1969. Fantasy gaming had been going on a while.

Chainmail was building on a wide base of design, and it's only really the fantasy bits that make it special - the core game isn't anything revolutionary, nor particularly interesting, unfortunately.

>>51389895
also if anyone's interested, the 1910 rules on that list are here: http://www.monstrousmatters.com/2016/10/war-games-for-boy-scouts-ca-1910.html

They're again more of a precursor to early recreational wargames than that actually being there, a weird pre-pre offshoot.

>>51389536
thanks, also forgot to mention that rules wise it uses the Flesh Golem's stats*, but loses the Flesh Golem's immunity to non-magical weapons, healing from Lightning, and immunity to spells, in exchange though they only take half damage from blunt weapons and most projectiles due to being non-living meat and fat animated by magic(magical versions of these weapons deal full damage though), that same property however makes them more vulnerable to fire damage

these changes from the Flesh Golem formula(and the overall cheaper and easier to obtain ingredients) makes making a Shwarma Golem a much easier task(if you have access to a spell or ritual for crafting a Flesh Golem, the level requirements are reduced by 2 levels if you use it to craft a Shwarma Golem, and material costs are halved as well)

I'll admit this is all just off the top of my head, so feel free to modify it as needed(since I'm sure I screwed something up here)

*Swords & Wizardry Complete(newest version) version

>>51389973
>rules wise it uses the Flesh Golem's stats
obviously the flesh golem was designed by a chef gone mad, and this is the original version.

What happens when a PC licks the special drug toad of a goblin junkie?

>>51390316
Save v. Death, or die. Then,
Save v. Wand, or be Feebleminded. Then,
Save v. Petrification, or develop 2d20 warts. Then,
Save v. Breath Weapon, or develop halitosis. Then,
Save v. Spell, or be charmed by the 2d6th next humanoid you meet.

>>51389973
Shawarma Golems should take double damage from cutting and slicing weapons, both because d4 Flesh Golems is a pretty crazy thing to add to a goblin encounter and because shawarmas are made to be cut into little bits.

>>51390694
You ever try cutting away a Shawarma? It takes foreeeeeever~

>>51390316
Switch minds with a hippie from Earth in 1977.

>>51390316
Roll 1d4

1 Another special toad just like it erupts from the lickers mouth in 1d4 days (or hours or whatever). For the duration the licker can speak with toads and many other things but most of them don't reply because they're very shy.
The new toad gains this same bizarre reproduction method in one week, when it begins to smells strongly of sweets.

2 The toad's mouth enlarges and swallows the licker. Inside is a 5'x5' pitch black wet fleshy room. The goblin hid a big stash in here and forgot. Flame-based light will cause the toad to cough and eject the licker.

3 A near by witch is now tracking the licker, as this is her stolen toad. She sends some of her animated house items (lamp, cauldron, fireplace poker, etc) to retrieve the toad.

4 The toad grows to about 4' tall and stands upright as a Toadman. Relieved of it's curse, it desires to join the party and aid them. Stats are as Normal man, however once a day the Toadman can lick their hand and make and attack to smack someone with it. On a successful hit the target makes a Save vs Poison, on a fail the target eyes bulge out of their socket and dangle from their head.

>>51390784
So is #1 a one-off thing, or do you just keep doing that forever?

>>51385449
All thouls, all the time.

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Just a heads up for people who like LotFP and physical copies.

Only a few copies of Scenic Dunnsmouth and World of the Lost remain in the LotFP store, so you might want to get them now if you want them.

>>51386982
>Miniatures don't require a grid.
They still tie you down a bit, and people can end up approaching things like moving pieces around a board rather than actually inhabiting their characters. I want as much as possible to be inside people's heads. I want things to be cinematic, like some sort of action movie. I will, on occasion, make a quick sketch of the battle area to give people their bearings, and maybe put some Xs to show where everybody starts off, but after that, I prefer people to just visualize everything off of descriptions. For trickier cases, I might use "dice graphics", laying out dice to rather loosely represent where everybody is. But again, the intent is to lean on the actual physical representation as little as possible.

>>51386982
I use miniatures, no grid, and keep measurement fairly loose so we aren't wasting time.

>>51385449
>How do they work in a dungeon?
The wandering monster tables? Isn't it pretty straightforward?

When an encounter is indicated, you look up the correct die roll for the relevant dungeon level on the matrix, then throw 1d6 to determine which table to use, then roll on that table for an encounter.

>>51389512
>Chainmail, in RPG terms, would be one of the many 80s RPGs, and it suffers for it.
Eh, that seems harsh. At 50-ish digest pages I think it holds up well against something like Whorewhammer (which was what, like 350 pages before they had to kill it off because it was too bloated to live?).

Sup /osrg/. I come to you for help! I'm not at all a creative dude, is there a good list of traps or special rooms I can pull from to flesh out a dungeon that you dudes recommend?

>>51394255
The classics are pit falls (latches over trap doors), poison needles (latches releasing springs), and nooses (latches releasing springs tightening ropes).
Beyond that, try repurposing puzzles.

File: Tricks, Empty Rooms & Basic Trap Design.pdf (1B, 486x500px)

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>>51394255
I found reading this to be helpful.

Also the appendixes in the 1st edition hardcover DMG are pretty useful before you even get to all the blogs full of cool shit.

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Looking for any feedback on my gonzo modern game here.

>>51390926
Good question I didn't mention that.

A licker can only have one toad growing inside them at a time. All toads created in this manner (after seven days) can also be licked to create more toads.

>>51394555
>Welcome to the city of electric lights. The sleepy city. Garden is a city outside of space and time, filled to the brim with people from across different dimensions.
zzz

>Body, Agility, Charisma, and Knowledge
>Stat Modifier Table
>Add Charisma modifier to your reaction rolls and psychic resistance.
I'm okay with this.

>Whenever you fail a saving throw, add +1 to it. Maximum 18 for all saves.
I like it, note that the increase is permanent.

>Guns
A bit fiddly but interesting.

>Psychic Abilities
I like the stress system.

>>51394555
The opening paragraphs could use some editing. Too many comas. The language is attempting to be evocative but seems too vague. Get someone to help with cutting it down and tightening the language to fit the mood you're going for. Its more cluster-of-whatever than gonzo at the moment.

4 Stats is cool. I like saves increasing when you fail as growing more resilient when you survive.

Hats are neat, I might steal that for other games.

Priority for starting equipment is clunky. If its only used at character creation it might work better to just have priority 1 be the highest. Might mess with people on high/low as good/bad though. I'd just use A-E and put it on a chart that's easy to see everything at once.

Not sure about automatically doing damage in melee, I'd have to see what monsters are going to look like first. Being able to chose between damage or armour damage seems like a hassle for the gm to keep track of which monsters have reduced armour and which don't. Might not be though if you're going to each monster is a unique and weird foe.

Why is the reaction roll on a D12? Not against it, just curious about why.

Advantages/Disadvantages are interesting. Being able to stack them seems like a fiddly option though. Depends on how often players are going to be making new characters. Also being able to stack 3 advantages for +3 to a stat might be an issue.

Chimneys and their various parts are very cool, looks like the right balance between enough options to be mechanically different but not too many. Can you make a table for randomly generating different guns?

Psychic powers seem cool. What are Consequences for Stress?

>>51389832
https://strength18slash01.blogspot.com/

Thank you

>>51394762
>Welcome to the city of electric lights. The sleepy city. Garden is a city outside of space and time, filled to the brim with people from across different dimensions.
>zzz

Well what would YOU write there then, smart guy?

Any good blogs, videos, or PDFs about running a good old school campaign? For someone who played OD&D with my granddad when I was eight (21 years ago now) then mostly fell out of playing until I was in college and 3.5 was the big thing.

I've run a couple old school modules for my sister, her boyfriend, and two of their friends, and they went well enough, but I haven't ever DMed anything old school beyond that, and I want to set up and run a full-on campaign.

So I've been hovering around the OSR for a while but I've never really tried playing OSR game. I fully admit I'm a newfag who got into RPG around D&D 3e. Problem is, the OSR community seems to be 100% composed of the worst stereotype of the 'old D&D' playerbase: no-fun-allowed grumpy old men.

Is there a way to get into this without being accused of being some quiche-eating hipster, which seems to be what they think of anyone who got into RPG after they arrived. Not that I blame them with the hipster invasion and storygames.

>>51395488

Dude, I don't know where you're playing, but while I started playing Basic in '81, I also love me some modern storygames, and I'm certainly not alone in that.
And anyone who's not welcoming to newbies can get the fuck out of my hobby, IMO.

File: A Quick Primer For Old School Gaming.pdf (1B, 486x500px)

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>>51395451
>>51395488

Have some primers that everyone likes to argue over. They at least give a decent overview of what's going on.

best osr combines storygame elements

>>51395451
>>51395488

Old School Renaissance Handbook
>https://www.sendspace.com/file/8b48j7

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>>51395451
>>51395488

Other thing that will help with not looking like a bandwagoner is doing some of your own research aka google, lurking and reading shit on your own, then coming back with more specific questions.

>>51395630
Well I have looked at Godbound and Dark Albion, which both interest me on the basis of setting/ideas. Is that a start?

>>51395691
Godbound's tricky and people will probably argue about it being osr or not. Dark Albion looks sweet but I haven't had a chance to read it. There's a lot of cool looking stuff to get overwhelmed and distracted by.

Its probably a good idea to start with primary source material. I'd advise at least reading one of the classic DnD rulebooks, like B/X or The Rules Cyclopedia. That will give you an idea of what everything is basing off of. Probably doesn't hurt to play a few games, see how it works, then come back with ideas and questions, see which OSR derivatives did what with the rules and pick one you want from there.

>>51395393
They asked for feedback not a ghost writer but fuck it.

>Outside space and time, overflowing with dimensional refugees and exiles lay Garden, City Of Electric Lights.
>Surrounded by an endless tangle of wildelands the city grows by gathering refuse material of the universe. The Vortex of Coincidence pulling in peoples, places and things to form a scrapyard amalgam.
>To be a Gardner is to live in the city's dark places, a neerdowell mercenary. To scrabble for fame and fortune by your wits and gunsmoke. Good luck.

or something like that

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>>51395921
>like that
They will steal that verbatim.

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>>51394889

Hey, really appreciate the feedback here.

>Priority 1 being the highest
Why would you want that? THen people will get lots of cool powers and skills AND good starting gear. The idea of the game is that you can start with good weapons, good HP, psychic powers or good social abilities but you can't get all of them at once and you have to choose. This is the alternate to the class system; you can be the big gun guy or the psychic guy or the specialist without actually making it a class.

Truth be told while having starting gear seems to be less useful then the more permanent other stuff I'd like to think that characters die often enough and since most advancement happens without levels anyway (such as how you can learn new skills and improve saves) that starting gear would be equivalent to everything else. Obviously against things like psychic powers and health points that starting gear may seem debilitating, but I was debating having an ability to grow psychic powers or health point maximum during the game so you can sorta get better regardless.

>Why is the reaction roll a d12
I'm pretty sure my original intention was for a d12 so that the modifier points were not as useless as a d20 but not as significant as a d6 or d10 roll. Currently each point of charisma, social skill, or sharp clothing counts as about +8.3% to chance of getting good reactions basically. This is subject to change.

>Advantages/Disadvantages
This is probably one of the toughest things I am still working on in the game. The original idea was to be any race you want then just describe how you are that race with your stats basically. So if you have high Body but low Wisdom then just be a big dumb shark man or whatever. However as time went things like having natural armor plating is a bit difficult to describe even with very high body, so I decided to implement this 'balanced' system of pros and cons. Maybe you just get 1 pro/con up to 3 points?

>>51395393
"They call it 'The Garden'. No one can remember why. If it ever was a place of greenery it isn't anymore. It's a jungle of glass and steel, concrete and stone. Who built it? Why does it exist? We don't know and we don't care. We're here and we aim to survive.

You might be one of the "immigrants", the people who wake up on day and find themselves here. Or maybe you ducked into a familiar alleyway and emerged into an unfamiliar street. No worries, just keep in line and don't start trouble and you'll get along fine. You might even become a Gardener if you pay attention. What's that? Think of a Gardener as a freelance troubleshooter. If you want something, they get it. If you need something, or someone, pruned, they'll carry the shears. You understand?

I've gotta ask though, is it true that where you come from there's a big ball of fire in the sky half the time? And that you people sleep when it dies out? We don't have schedule like that here. The skies are always dark, the stars always twinkle, and they're always sleeping, working, robbing, fighting, trading, and indulging in vice somewhere.

Beyond the city? We call that 'The Woods'. No one really know what's out there. They say you either never come back from there or if you do come back you'll be different, and not in a good way. Now if you'll excuse me, all this talking has made me thirsty. Maybe if you were to cover a few rounds of drinks I can tell you a little more."

--Arthur "Weasel" Wesley, information broker

Might be a bit too noir/modern/long 4u but whatever
that'll be $1 + tip

>>51395974
>steal
>hyperborian scrying pool board

Don't even care. They're just words and a big part of osr is stealing other people's shit and changing it a bit.

At what point did D&D stop being a supplement to a wargame and start being a completely focused dungeon-crawling game?
Holmes? Or earlier?

>>51396023
>priority
I just mean numbering it the other way so it seems more intuitive. Depends on how people think of the term 'high priority' really. Which for some reason I do as 1, which seems pretty retarded of me. But also how enough people think to be confusing.

It looks like a strange enough setting that you can have psionic growth be similar to finding scrolls, magic items etc.

>reaction roll
Cool, checks out. Was mostly wondering why.

>adv/dis
Hrm. I like the idea of just fluffing race based on stats, but see what the limitations could be after making a few different characters. You could diversify the advantages/disadvantages but that might get too cluttered. There's probably a decent balance, like 6 options or so. Enough to make things different without getting into character builds.

>>51396252

I don't know about completely, but the Blackmoor campaign shifted from a wargame to a period where they switched between dungeon crawling (to recover lost treasures below the castle) and back to the wargaming (spending the loot on raising armies) pretty early on.

>>51395807
>I'd advise at least reading one of the classic DnD rulebooks, like B/X or The Rules Cyclopedia.
If you're just reading it to get your bearings, I'd suggest B/X; it's shorter and less cluttered. If you're actually thinking about playing it, I'd suggest B/X; it's shorter and less cluttered.

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Hey guys, does anyone here know a nice and not really complicated system with non-traditional classes, with a few unique mechanics for each one?

I love the class based systems because that means everyone has a niche in combat, but I'm a bit tired of D&D and retroclones with the same classes over and over again.

>>51396921

Beyond the Wall?

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>>51396921
Check out Perdition and Hubris.
Also check this out.

>>51396921
Retroclones with houserules? May I suggest the 10 foot polemic rules doc, has some uniqe classes and some revamping of the classic ones.

>>51396921
ACKS has 12 in the core book, they're pretty straight forward.

Beyond The Wall is good for that too, but they're sort of integrated into character creation and the magic system is different.

dungeon world

Does anyone know where to find a list of all the "Product Identity" monsters (like beholders, mind flayers, etc) that also has either OD&D or B/X stat blocks attached to them? Before I track them all down myself I figured I'd at least ask.

>>51396921

Google some FLAILSNAILS classes, there's a lot of good stuff.

>>51394668
>All toads created in this manner [...] can also be licked to create more toads.
You can't find the gonlin's treasure in the toad you cough up?

>>51397871
I made the table under the assumption that none of the results are true until you roll the result. Anything beyond that is for you to make up.

>>51397120
Mind Flayers don't exist in Basic versions of D&D.

OD&D Mind Flayer stats were not printed in any of the booklets / books, only in The Strategic Review. Since "hardcore" OD&D and 1E RAW/BtB fanatics refuse to accept information from Dragon Magazine, the Mind Flayer stats are not able to be used.

>>51390784
Im looking more for strange drug effects.

Im planning on having a room with Goblin Junkies with their licking toads scooting around.

The Goblin Junkies have weird abilities, abilities the players can temporarily get by licking one of the drug toads.

File: ODnD_Eldritch_Wizardy.pdf (1B, 486x500px)

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>>51397994
>OD&D Mind Flayer stats were not printed in any of the booklets / books,

>>51398393
Doesn't matter, they were in Dragon first so they're not canon.

>>51398291
As if a Magic Mouth, you start screaming a message in Goblin.
The next time you spit on someone, they're set upon by a Phantasmal Killer. If you miss, it comes for you.
Affected by a Color Spray, goblins try to shove it in your mouth.
You can no longer distinguish humanoids by sight, but can see ethereal. (Lasts indefinitely)
You ear wax dribbles out (and reeks of decay), in 3 rounds it turns to fatal contact poison.
The frog explodes. Treat as Burning Hands (in the direction of the toad's ass).
You now talk through the toad. It now croaks though you. (Lasts indefinitely)
Blinded for 2d6 rounds, but can see illusions and the invisible.
You sense the direction of the nearest magical effect (No matter how far)
It just gets you high.
You start levitating.
You become possessed by a Demon.
You receive an oracle.
It gets you really, really high.
The toad releases spores(?) that rust water.
Become well fed (as if rations were consumed), toad shrinks. Lasts 2 uses. 3d4 food frogs litter the room.
It gets you really, really, really high. You are now under an Astral spell.

>>51398776
>spores(?) that rust water.
>rust
>water

What did he mean by this?

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>>51398819
Pretty sure I meant metal, but sure lets roll with it.

You ever see rust drip off of something?
The water is now covered in that.

>>51396921
The Nightmares Underneath might be a good one to look into, as would be Fantastic Heroes & Witchery, and Wolf Packs & Winter Snow

These threads seem to have calmed down as of late. Hopefully it can stay like that

>>51401698
Did you just sage on page 10?

>>51402599
Yes

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>>51395921
>>51396088

Thanks for the write ups.

Here's your tip

I need ideas for a weird trap.

I have two small rooms adjacent to one another. One is totally dark, the other has light. Only one of the rooms is trapped.

>>51403744
dark room has a mirror that reflect any light as a laser, when they open the door from the room with light the trap activate

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>>51403744

Any attempt to bring light in the dark room activates a trap. Any attempt to snuff out the light from the light room activates a trap.

Instead, you must simultaneously lower the levels of light in the light room and brighten the dark room at about the same rate, enough that two people have to do it, one person can't travel between the room quick enough. When both rooms are gloomy but not bitch black, then the door will open to the next area or the traps will be disarmed.

>>51403744
dark room is actually a monster, you are inside it

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>>51403919
Anyone else here reading Douman Seiman's new work?

How blasphemous would it be to separate race and class in an OSR homebrew system?

>>51404939
not all that much honestly

>>51404939
Plenty of OSR do that. We'll think less of you though. Fantasy races are already archetypes unto themselves.

>>51404939
Not at all blasphemous?

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>>51398473
bitch are you retarded

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>>51405404

Don't take bait that's been lying around for eight hours, anon.

Think it expires today, but Lulu's latest coupon is 15% plus free shipping: WINTERSHIP. The free shipping counts for more than you'd expect, really.

http://www.lulu.com/shop/various-authors/strategic-review-1-vol/paperback/product-18888465.html

http://www.lulu.com/shop/various-authors/the-dragon-magazine-issues-1-14/paperback/product-18888489.html

http://www.lulu.com/shop/gary-gygax/supplements-1-3-digest/paperback/product-18895851.html

Don't know if the OD&D fans here had those links.

I'm writing up a module to give you guys. What do you like and dislike in modules?

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>>51405404
Even I didn't take that, and it was aimed at me!

>>51405894
You could probably dig through fireden (or whatever).
Someone ask that like once a month.

This (>>51316263) has some helpful responses.

>>51406063
Ah thank ya.

Goblins or Kobolds?
Trolls or Gnolls?
Phase Spiders or Blink Dogs?
Ogres or Ogres, Oriental?
Adventurers or Bandits?
Demons or Kender?

What's a good small maze dungeon?
I'm looking for something that can be made into like a briar/forest maze

>>51407144
Yes.

>>51407144
>Goblins or Kobolds?
both
>Trolls or Gnolls?
both
>Phase Spiders or Blink Dogs?
former
>Ogres or Ogres, Oriental?
both
>Adventurers or Bandits?
both
>Demons or Kender?
former

>>51407144
>Goblins or Kobolds?
Both. Kobolds are a kind of goblin
>Trolls or Gnolls?
Both
>Phase Spiders or Blink Dogs?
Phase spiders
>Ogres or Ogres, Oriental?
Both
>Adventurers or Bandits?
Bandits
>Demons or Kender?
Demons

>>51374855
A Chainmail hero is defined as a man with the power of 80 men.

>>51386657
Is this for D&D?
What would classify as wounded?

>>51408201
I think these a just suggestions that the DM can use to describe damage.
Like, if the PC has full hp the threat of death isn't as great and that is shown by the DMs description of the strike. As the PC loses more and more hitpoints, the DM can make the descriptions more and more gruesome.

>>51386429
I still don't see the point of having a skill system where the average chance of success is just under 17%. I like the scale of attributes modifying a d12 roll, and the skill list seems pretty good, but a 2/12 success rate is just ridiculous.

>>51404939
BFRPG did it and they were one of the first.

>>51409005
Then just raise the base Skillpoints from 2 to 4/6/whatever.

Anything can be modified to suit your tastes, anon. The 16.6% chance for non-Specialists is just keeping with LotFP's ruleset.

>>51407144
>>51407144
>Goblins or Kobolds?
Kobolds but only if they're Ratbolds or Dogbolds. Scalybolds need to yiff in hell.

>Trolls or Gnolls?
I've written stuff about Trolls so I'll go with them.

>Phase Spiders or Blink Dogs?
Pass

>Ogres or Ogres, Oriental?
Ogres are already ill-defined and indistinct, adding Oni just obfuscates matters.

>Adventurers or Bandits?
>implying there's a difference

>Demons or Kender?
Demons

>>51405894
>Likes
>clear maps
>innovative rooms/hexes/monsters/treasure
>decent hook
>random tables
>evocative and conscience writing

>dislikes
>gonzo as excuse for lack of effort
>everything being lvl 1-4
>more than a few paragraphs of world building

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Does anyone here have suggestions for implementing OSR-style play into GURPS?

I'm a fan of more 'traditional' RPG's in general. I've been running GURPS for years, and have a hankering for some good old-fashioned Hexcrawl stuff. Not that I dislike the idea of using an actual OSR-style system, I'm just very used to GURPS and I'm hoping it can be suitable for a similar feel.

>On my "do" list:
- Rulings over rules; more judgement calls than looking up / following a bunch of edge-case rules to the letter. Keep momentum of the game going, use your brain. "When in doubt, roll and shout."

- Dice fall where they may.

- Classic hexcrawl format. Lots of good old-fashioned random tables.

- Emphasis on player interaction with the world; not "I roll X skill", describing what your character is actually doing and using skill rolls only to parse chancy events+actions in play.

- No safety nets. Character death is always on the table, any action can be attempted, creativity is to be rewarded.

- Character point (XP) awards to come with actual accomplishments; lump sums given out for "finishing" a dungeon or quest (whether by killing everything or just making off in secret with all the loot or collapsing the whole dungeon, whatever), spent during downtime and training, to mimic a "level up" vibe.

>Maybe-a-little-not-OSR:
- Small bonus XP for roleplaying. Rewards on a session-to-session basis are primarily what's gotten in the game world (money, holdings, favors, getting better at whacking dudes with swords, etc.; to get better you have to do it).

- Skill rolls in general. GURPS, being a skill-based system, evaluates lots of Character actions as skills which can be improved. As stated above, I'll be doing my best to curb those in favor of players actually stating exactly what it is they're doing, but Skills might be a nice tool to have for uncertain outcomes (as opposed to called Roll-Under Attribute rolls, as an example)

>Continued

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>>51411402
>Continued

>Concerns
GURPS is a fairly "specific" system in that the mechanics often dictate pretty specific effects of what occurs in play. It's not a game as open to "fluffing" attack rolls, or improvising effects and things like that at-will as many OSR systems are quite open to.

Or, I suppose it is, but the natural inclination of the system is kind of the opposite direction by default (account for all kinds of details in the rules as, at the least, an option somewhere).

In order to de-emphasize this, I'm planning on paring the system options down to virtually nil (bar for things that I think are flavorful for my specific campaign).

No hit locations, armor acts mechanically as if it covers the entire body by default, simplified action resolution, fewer derived statistics like jumping distance (if such an action is in question, make an attribute or skill roll), looser interpretation of the turn time scale, using judgement for crits and crit fails, the "Ming Vase" recommendations from one of the OSR primers...

Again, the goal is to keep things as light, interpretive and flowing as possible. Reward player creativity, zero hand-holding, etc.

At this point I'd like to ask if anyone has any advice, recommendations, or commentary for me (even if that's just "fuck off this thread is for OSR systems only ya git"). Any things I should be thinking about in addition to this stuff? Any things to consider adding, removing, focusing on, being wary of, etc.?

(P.S. I plan on using monsters straight from the MM virtually as-is, on-the-fly conversions)

Thanks guys.

>>51408201
Pretty sure those are the 4e damage types?
In 4e, it's a rule that you announce monsters reaching ½ health.

>>51411913
Should we do this in osr?

I like the level of information it conveys to players.

If you know that injured/bloody = half health, you can make decisions which make sense in character, but also have strategic significance.

Of course, instead of 4e's minions with 1 hp, i just use level 1-2 monsters that die in 1 hit, possible with +5 swords so they can hit reliably. (like gygaxian drow)

>>51411402
>>51411505
I'm not familiar enough with GURPS to be much help on this (only played a few times and that was literally decades ago), but the way you're going about things seems about right to me.

>>51412156
I tend to free-form wound level descriptions, but I wouldn't be averse to having a generic descriptor --"he's badly wounded" or something--that indicates a target has crossed a particular threshold.

>>51412156
It was only made a rule in 4e because 3.5 players had a track record of never hinting at damage and refusing to say how injured things were.
If someone asks how injured something is, tell them. It's not like there character wouldn't have a sense of it.

>>51412224
Nah, it was also because they wanted to tie mechanics to it - you had monsters getting a special effect or ability at bloodied, attacks that do more damage on bloodied enemies, you could use it as a trigger for all sorts of things if you were an imaginative designer. It was good design.

Not necessary for OSR play, but it doesn't necessarily hurt anything to use bloodied as a descriptor if you feel like it.

Could maybe tie it in to an expansion of the morale rules?

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>>51411402
>>51411505
Why GURPS over The Fantasy Trip and/or Heroes & Other Worlds?

And have a AD&D-GURPS conversion guide.

>>51411402
>Does anyone here have suggestions for implementing OSR-style play into GURPS?

1) make a system for auto-generating characters fast.
2) make a system for auto-improving characters fast.

You are right about not having too many options. Don't forget about grouping skills things together (GURPS Lite was it?).

>>51412157
Good to know I'm on a decent track.

>>51413139
Awesome PDF, thanks. I don't have any hard/specific reasons for using GURPS over TFT (although I am using a few conceits/simplifications cribbed from TFT) aside from familiarity; I guess I'm of a preference (at least currently) to trim down to taste rather than build up/bolt on to taste. TFT is great, it's just a bit too barebones for what I'm shooting for.

Building up or stripping down are both decent approaches, but I've got better "gut instincts" for GURPS as an overall framework than TFT even after being heavily stripped (though obviously in certain ways I will certainly end up treading in TFT territory, both intentionally and not, given my current campaign design philosophy). If I feel like bolting back on or expanding a few things I trimmed later, I also have the feeling that will be easiest with my current method.

Heroes & Other Worlds I'm not actually terribly familiar with, I'll take a look.

>>51413488
Those are both good ideas. I've actually done something pretty crazy and started making a few random chargen tables for actually rolling GURPS characters at the table.

Character improvement I'll have to think about a little more, in terms of speed. Though nearly all improvement in this campaign will occur during downtime, so hopefully it won't be a terrible issue even if it takes fifteen or so minutes to hash out.

Skill groups, yes definitely.

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>>51413598
Real men roll gurps stats 3d6 straight down

Rolled 6, 5, 2, 5, 5, 3, 1, 3, 3, 1, 5, 3 = 42 (12d6)

>>51413635
Wish me luck.

>>51413635
I hate to say it but that is exactly what I was planning on doing.

>>51413598
>>51413726
So are you gonna make "Class Templates" or do you already have them?

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>>51413726

>>51413809
I already have quite a few, as well as some fairly conservative racial templates. A couple races are powerful or strange enough that they preclude an a class choice.

Some are existing GURPS templates hacked to taste, some are smaller templates welded together; also putting together a couple "background" tables for some auxilary stuff, like a couple random items appropriate to the background and maybe an extra skill or trait (either positive or negative).

>>51413925
To be clear, though, my "classes" are more along the lines of crusader, highwayman, vagabond, hedge witch, priest, woodsman, bounty hunter, etc. Fairly specific in nature.

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Ten foot polemic house rule update if you missed it.

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Judges Guild had Classic Greatness!

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Hey guys, I was thinking of running a game of Burning Wheel using an old D&D module and the Burning THAC0 guide/advice. I was wondering if any of you that are familiar with Burning Wheel had a suggestion for a good module to run.

What sort of things could replace jewels, gold and treasure as XP rewards in a post-apocalyptic setting?

>>51416591
bottlecaps

>>51416591
Drugs, technology, STCs, practical resources such as food and water.

>>51416591
Food. Old-world tools. Possibly story awards (things/places useful to your community).

>>51416591
I've always liked the idea of ammo as currency, so bullets = gold. Honestly, post-apocalyptic settings seem more barter-ish all around, where you're more likely to be trading functional things for functional things without an intermediary step. I suppose you could always assign an abstract value to things (or value them in bullets, even if you're usually not using any sort of currency, with them just being the closest thing). I mean, it's not like XP are a physical thing anyway. So maybe you get XP from the inherent (approximate) worth of shit that people salvage / steal.

Honestly though, I'd be more likely to use milestones in a setting where just surviving is often the goal. You made it through the adventure; you get X experience points. Shit like bullets, food, water, and gear are their own reward, facilitating your survival.

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What does /osr/ think of the Goblin Slayer manga?

Do you have some modern module in LOTFP style where you fight extremely crafty goblins?

>>51416767
The actions, writing, and setting are all contrived, but the art is nice.

>LotFP module
Don't know, but if there is one it has an apocalypse trigger.

>>51416767
I just hate how is just one chapter per month

To anyone who plays DCC, how does dual-wielding interact with sneak attacks? Do both attacks count as sneak attacks?

>>51416747
>>51416591

Mad max Setting where 1 gallon of petrol = 100 bullets, and characters get 1 xp per bullet

>>51413726
This is dangerous with gurps, but I can see it working

>>51417985
Definitely dangerous, potentially hilarious, possibly thought-provoking as far as class/race choice. I see all of those as upsides in this context.

>>51417958
Probably up to the DM, but I personally think that if the PCs agility is too low to score a crit, then the only damage done is the normal weapon damage (or the special backstab damage if you use a dagger or whatever)

>>51416767
Weaker than Meshi, but still enjoyable. Pretty to look at.

>>51418250
What levels are the Dungeon Meshi characters?

>Lastly, our raid on the TSR Fortress at the Mill . . . was rewarded with a glance at 1986 TSR catalog . . .

>For AD&D . . . Unearthed Arcana II.

>A supplement to the supplement, with the mystic, the savant, the mountebank and all the other new classes you really needed.

I've never heard anything about UA2 so this is odd. Source is GM3 In Search of New Gods p.55

>>51415741
Weird, the version I have has a blue and grey cover. Anyone know what's up with the different printings?

>>51420185
I think that got canceled due to Gygax getting fired from TSR

You think there will ever be an OSR style thing going on for the other big games of the early days of the hobby, like Runequest or Traveller? I'd kill for a million different compatible versions of both those games!

>>51421547
I would hope so but the grogs who run the OSR won't allow it. It's funny how GM3 (>>51420185) references Bushido and converts a piety system from a game called Lands of Adventure for use with D&D clerics and paladins but that would be beyond the pale for any "retroclone" to implement.

>>51421547
one of the reasons the OSR focuses almost entirely on D&D(with some secondary focus on some of TSR's other games) is that they're the easiest to accurately clone thanks to the D20 OGL

>>51421670
>the grogs who run the OSR won't allow it

Jesus, don't be such a whiny bitch. If you want an OSR for your game, go out and build one, don't cry us a river over how noone here will do it for you.

>>51421547

Traveller has the Cepheus engine, which is a sort of retroclone of Mongoose 1e with some modifications to make it a bit more compatible with Classic Traveller, and is basically to allow people to continue publishing for MGT1 without a license, sort of like OSRIC.

>>51421670
>the grogs who run the OSR
the fuck are you talking about, like the OSR is a corporation or some shit
do what you like, who gives a fuck if some fat old bastards don't like it

>>51421547
What's the major difference between the rules of Old-School and New-School Runequest and Traveller? And how has the playstyle changed? If any of those are significant differences that a lot of people miss then it's going to happen.

BRP almost ruined my love for RPGs, so I'm fine with never seeing a system like that ever again

>>51421547
Thing is, Trav still has Classic, which is best, and Mongoose, which is reasonably close - it's the editions in-between that went mad with rules and crunchy design systems. It doesn't need as much OSRing.

well there is t5

don't go to t5town

>>51421547
>>51423455
and runequest got a fairly nice update by mongoose which put it into a slim small-format corebook, and then got a big new edition, so it's still alive and doesn't really need an osr?

please don't take either of these posts as praise for mongoose, it's more stunned amazement that they did some things without fucking up too much

>Empire of the Petal Throne introduced the concept of critical hits.[citation needed] Using these rules a player who rolls a 20 on a 20-sided die does double the normal damage, and a 20 followed by a 19 or 20 counts as a killing blow. According to M.A.R. Barker, "this simulates the 'lucky hit' on a vital organ."[5]

huh

Anyone have a pdf of the new printing of Swords & Wizardry?

>>51421480
But we really need that class!

So I'm building this dungeon that's basically a Goblin Castle with gimmicky fights and I want to put an encounter in a room where Goblins are betting on rat fights and the PC's can actually get in on this action.

How should I do this mechanically and how can I make it more interesting? I'm thinking part of the game is cheating (because they're goblins) and buffing your rat as long as you're not caught

>>51424545
>buffing your rat
How tho. Sabotage enemy rats instead.

>>51424545
Give the rat attack bonuses for the player roleplaying in funny ways. That's what the scene is for, right?

B/X realising that race is inseparable from class was a big step forward for Marxist theory.

>>51426075
Very true. It's a shame that gender has not yet merged with the class consciousness, thanks to that bourgeoisie Gygax defiling the great progress of comrade Moldvay.

>>51424545
Even if the goblins are making peaceful contact with these PCs, they'll see them as outsiders and thus try to cheat them especially hard.

Have them say that it's based on some kind of complicated point-spread system, and no matter what they'll never say that the rat the PCs bet on beat the spread, whether it won or not.

Have the bookie point to one of the two rats in the ring. "That's Fluffy. You wanna bet on Fluffy or Stinky?" However, the other rat in the ring is not Stinky, and the Fluffy vs. Stinky fight isn't even scheduled for today.

Maybe just give any thieves a bonus to pick pockets in the confusion.

>>51426075
Let me tell you about the real way to play Keep on the Borderlands (hint it involves uniting the poor victimised inhabitants of the caves of chaos to revolt against the tyranny of the keep)

>>51423455
>>51423468
Generally I'd say other retroclones fail to spread because their originals remain available and there isn't that much of an impulse to roll your own heartbreaker out of them. Like, BRP has GORE as a retroclone, but BRP itself remains alive in BGB form and all the Chaosium games. There's also Openquest for Runequest but it seems to go its own way to serve as their company's in-house system. I can also think of 4C for Marvel Superheroes, but IIRC MSH has a site where you can freely download it, so if 4C is used at all it is the way OSRIC was originally meant to be used - an excuse to put stuff in DrivethruRPG for the original.

>>51427980
Orc anarchists in snazzy coats and with molotov cocktails, make it happen.

>>51428013
I mean, they then team up and live in solidarity with most of the folk in the keep. It's just the stupidly wealthy and powerful overclass that are the issue.

orcs are cool

>>51424545
Have them bet on Rat Races. Its a goblin game, so obviously they're all cheating, and the rats fight each other. That's fine.

Giant, or at least big-ass rats, chasing a halfling around an oval pit, much like the rabbit in dog races. The crowd bets on which rat catches the halfling first. The crowd throws derbies at all contestants, and the track is littered with hazards.

The players can place bets on different rats, represented by a big handful of differently coloured dice. Doesn't really matter if they're different size, its not suppose to be fair like that.

Before the dice are rolled, the players pick the colour they like they most, or randomly pull a dice, and roleplay how they're trying to hedge their bets. Betting involves putting currency into the pot. The players have to pay more because they're pinkskins. Success at this gives a bonus to the rolled number.

High number wins 50% of the pot. 2nd Gets 30%. The house, aka goblin bookies and guards get the other 20%.

Side bets are acceptable if you don't get caught. Side quests could be the stable of halfling racers, who are poorly treated, but the champion is so traumatized that they actually enjoy the rush.

>>51423167
>BRP almost ruined my love for RPGs

How's that?

>>51428139
Bonus fun is doing the voice of the Goblin play-by-play of the Rat Race. I'd just jam as many snacks into your mouth as possible and try gibbering names and sports terms that aren't particularly coherent.

>and Lucky Lefty's dropped the try on an outwing 16th while Numbnut's Nimbus passes an offsides wicket around the spike pit! Looks like a real dangle past the blue line as Junkwaffel doubles up on helmet cups!

>>51423167
Story time?

>>51428139
>The crowd throws derbies at all contestants, and the track is littered with hazards.
Is that the plural of derby? If so, the hats are a nice touch. Do the goblins wear them?

>>51428297
The bookies wear flat caps and never explain a thing of the multiple bet types available. Punters shouldn't be betting if they don't know how to bet, right?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_bets_offered_by_UK_bookmakers

>>51415834
This is something' I've though of doing too as DM or player. I would probably use other good introductory modules such as Village of Homlet, Stonehell, or maybe Tower of the Stargazer if you want to stray from combat encounters.

If you want to give it a test run instead of doing a whole module there's the Temple of the Fire God, you can find a bunch of other good one-off dungeon dives on dungeoncontest.com.

Ask around the discord server if you do this online, I'd be interested in participating.

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How do you handle things like consumable items and adventuring supplies?

How common or easy to find are they in your games? Do you allow players to purchase healing potions or more minor magic items (like smoke bombs, magical flare-like devices, etc?)

>>51416591
Water, gas, bullets, casino tokens (for a casino in operation) all make for fine staples depending on the nature of the apocalypse. Largely people would deal in barter. If they don't there's probably several currency going around. Not everyone would accept different kinds or perhaps they would but at a diminished rate (Faction A Dollars are only worth half a Faction B Dollar or whatever). I personally would think that sort of system is neat for a moment but find it annoying after a few sessions.

If players/npcs don't have the money stand-ins, let them trade with other stuff they do have. If you make a shop table like a game normally would have, anyone reading it can go backwards to find out how many leather jackets it does to buy a radio.

To push it further, if the first big job the finish pays them in supplies that the party would have to pawn off elsewhere could be a pretty solid way of setting a tone for the game.

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>>51416591

I'm amazed nobody said this yet but CIGARETTES. Seriously I can't even imagine how valuable they'd become in post apoc.

Additionally I made a setting once where airships made from WW2 era planes and boats where everyone lived and flew around to the few high floating islands of land that were left above the toxic war fog. It was kind of dumb, but I was always proud of my idea of making army ribbons such as pic related the standard currency.

>Bright and colorful
>Serve little practical purpose on their own, too small to make new clothes out of easily
>There's a lot of them when everyone is descendant of military personal in the flying airships

>>51430799
The closest thing to health potions they can buy are poultices (helps with healing) or pain killers ("illusory" hp, damages restores in 4 hours).

Alchemy shizz is fair game, but pricey. And the local chemist doesn't have the same recipes as the one two towns over.

>>51430877
>Seriously I can't even imagine how valuable they'd become in post apoc.
Pretty sure if agriculture survives on *any* scale, people will be growing narcotics.

>>51430799
If the item could suffer from wear and tear, and doesn't already have rules (such as torches) After a week of constant use it has a 1 in 6 chance of breaking.

If the party gets some clout, and buddies up with the right person (priest, wizard, etc), they could commission them to make a scroll of Cure Light Woulds or Potion of Healing or whatever. It costs at least 1,000 gp (or about 100 Swords (of 1d8 damage)) and it takes time in a matter of days. This time works against them because most dungeons have re-population timers, ans well as getting nickeled and dimed for lodging fees if they just sit around and wait. I like this because it gives them something to spend money on, as well as balancing cost, time, and danger.

>>51416591
Toilet paper.

>>51431393
Shoft lavatory paper. You can get the awful scratchy stuff, but wasteland kings will start wars to recover a lost cache of [brand of choice, probably with cute puppies on the packaging].

>>51428824
>all bet types are goblin bets, which all goblins know are just trying to rip each other off with bamboozled language, calvinball style

What would you expect of an adventure module (compatible with S&W, say) that cost $1, to feel like you weren't ripped off?

What if it cost $2? $5? $10?

I've decided to start publishing OSR modules and selling them. I know I won't make much money off them, and I'll probably even do free with an option to pay what you want, but I still want to know what amount to "recommend" depending on the content.

>>51413712
...surprisingly strong wizard?

>>51433315
Something that isn't just a remake of a TSR module or generic. Make it idiosyncratic and unique to your tastes and I'm more likely to buy it.

Also, I dislike hack-fests but others differ in their shit taste.

>>51433407
I cast Fist

>>51433315
>>51433315
Funfact: Setting up for an online purchase (credit card info, or logging in, etc.) feels more burdensome than losing money.
You'll get more sales with lower prices, but pricing below $10 actually *lowers* profits.

Online stores with "wallets" (steam, etc.) are an exception, but that's about it.
>to feel like you weren't ripped off?
Obviously the module shouldn't be shit, but "pre-made prep" is always nice.
Optional set-piece encounters, readily ported dungeon chunks, general lists, city factions and their short term plans, etc.
Anything that easily lifted that normally goes into prep.
Also nice for that sort of stuff to be all together.

Dungeon content obviously goes with the rest of the dungeon, but shove useful things into apendices (or near the ToC).

>>51428192
>>51428341
I played a derivative of Runequest from my country, so I guess I can't say that BRP overall is bad, but I think that it has some issues.
Basically I found that the game was incredibly boring, both for the players and for the DM. Experience was only awarded after an adventure is over, the characters improved in such incredibly tiny increments of 100. Also the base chance to hit and hit points at early stages were so low that I still don't understand how anyone could see it as a game about fighting, but so many of the books discussed plain combat encounters so I still don't really know.
Also the game was strongly narrative-based (which is a problem somewhat endemic to my country's rpg scene overall). Players were supposed to understand a pretty complex world and the DM was supposed to go along with the metanarrative. I've spoken to other players and DMs that have said that while the adventures want the players to do thorough investigation into the "deep lore" of the world, most just rolled for the lore skill to beat every challenge.
I guess you could say that the system and the assumed style of play didn't merge well.

This is turning into a rant but basically I got too invested into this way of playing, which ended up with me becoming burned out and tired of role-playing games. Then I found the OSR where things seemed to make a bit more sense and now I'm pretty happy.

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>>51433315
Definitely try and make a module that's worth $10. If you don't put in at least that much effort, then what even is the point.

Main thing to focus on is usability- no matter your opinion on box text, room/monster description, your assumptions on the methods by which a player should interact with your module, you need to make a tool that is just easy to use. This means small projections of room segments next to descriptions, like wat MotBM does; core antagonists having a list of goals and another list of things they will pick things off to do to acheive these like wat DCO does; good indexing; a real clear statement of tone/purpose right near the start; notes/annotations on map for things like 'area where you can hear the drums from D8'; etc. etc.

More specifically, the type of things I like seeing in modules is stuff I find it hard to prep for myself. More than basic detail on a town is good, although there are about a million 'village of homlet' style modules- something like attached one page dungeon, where you provide a useful enough guide to some interesting things the DM could do. Something big happening is great- a before/after situation, where the PCs have the opportunity to see a place in two very different conditions. A small wilderness area, to give a better buildup than random encounter rolls, and to provide for DMs to lift hexes/encounters from your modules. Or do something completely different, and focus on copying Yoon-suin / R&PL / vornhiems' "setting resource" approach.

Just remember, stealing design ideas isn't stealing, it's iteration.

>>51430799
Healing potions are usually made by the church, since it's their practices that conduce healing magics, and it's a good influx of wealth for the church too. Otherwise you need to find a hedge-mage or witch for that, and both the price and results can be a strange one.

>>51433651
>>51434879
How do you feel about modules with no maps? Because I'm a different guy and I haven't/might do maps at all for my module.

>>51436466
Please include (rough) maps, no matter what you do.
Except dungeons. Dungeons need nicely draw isometric maps.

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>>51436466
Depending on the style of adventure, a simple pointcrawl flowchart may work just as well as a standard map, or at least that's my opinion.

>>51436580
>>51436729
There really aren't any dungeons and it's intentionally really vague (city > wilderness > towns/sites > more wilderness > make shit up). I'm basically trying to write it to reflect how I'd run it.

Is blood in the chocolate in the trove? I can't seem to find it.

>>51436795
You could go for a more flavourful map rather than a hex based on in that case. Or if you're totally against maps, make sure your language/art is evocative.

>>51436466
>>51436795
If the "traveling from one place to another" part isn't important, and if all places can be accessed from all other places without having to go through something else first, then I guess you wouldn't need a map. It would still be nice though.

So how cancer is my OSR homebrew?
>Class and race
>No clerics
>Classes all use the same XP scale
>No level cap
>Fighters have 'feats' or special moves they choose as they level and weapon specalization, 'fighting styles'
>Rogues can choose to improve their sneaking, sneak attacks, hunch rolls, and special Rogue skills
>Mages have an alternate vancian magic system, can give up spell slots to make permanent enchantments
>Magic item shop
>Furry Beastmen are a core race
Need I go on?

>>51437664
>Class and race
>No clerics
One or the other is fine. No reason to do both.
Weird that you left Thieves, by the way.

>No level cap
Depends on how end level progression works, but this probably doesn't matter.
People tend to retire their character (or end the campaign) at a reasonable point.

>can give up spell slots to make permanent enchantments
Snazzy.
>Magic item shop
Retarded. Also doesn't really fit with the previous line.

>Furry Beastmen are a core race
>Need I go on?
Please do, use spoiler tags.

>>51437664
>Class and race
That's fine

>No clerics
Not my thing, but if it works for you then I guess

>Classes all use the same XP scale
I hope you've balanced the classes for that

>No level cap
I never got where level cap was a big deal other than in OD&D. It's not like PCs get that high of a level in most campaigns anyway. So I think it's fine.

>Fighters have 'feats' or special moves they choose as they level and weapon specalization, 'fighting styles'
I mean, whatever works for you. Don't you feel that it clashes with the abstract style of D&D combat though? Hopefully you've kept that in mind.

>Rogues can choose to improve their sneaking, sneak attacks, hunch rolls, and special Rogue skills
That's something I've seen in many retroclones

>Mages have an alternate vancian magic system, can give up spell slots to make permanent enchantments
Pretty interesting I guess, I'd be interested in seeing the rules for it.

>Magic item shop
Fine as long as the items are pretty expensive, I'd say

>Furry Beastmen are a core race
Why do you need that when we already have hairy dwarves?

>>51437664
>Classes all use the same XP scale
>Furry Beastmen are a core race

Into the trash it goes.

>>51437664
>So how cancer is my OSR homebrew?
3.pf/10, m8.

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It's my first time GMing an actual dungeon run in DnD5e and I got a question.

How do you guys reveal the dungeon on paper? I've got it sketched out on graph paper but I really want to have a large map for them to place the figurines on. Drawing it out as they go along seems too time-consuming for doing it in the game. Do you guys make the map then cover areas up, have the players draw it, or just put the lay out down but draw in what's inside/secrets when they come to it?

I'm new to GMing and figured this thread fits the bill for asking about the dungeon crawling aspect. Also, any advice for running the dungeon? Thank you.

>>51438501
btw I used the dungeon roller from the 5e DMG to build it. I'm almost done with the layout and still have to stock. Looks fun so far.

>>51407144
Goblins
Trolls
Blink Dogs
Ogres
Bandits
Demons

>>51407144
Kobolds
Trolls
Phase Spiders
Ogres, Oriental
Bandits
Demons

>>51438501
I mean, the standard way is to have a particular player/character designated as mapper and draw out the dungeon from your descriptions as the party goes along. "The corridor extends for 50 feet before turning to the right. There's a wooden door halfway down on the left, identical to the one you just came through."

It can be a bit tricky to coordinate your terminology. If a corridor "stretches 40 feet ahead of you", does that include the space you're on or not? If a door is "30 ahead on the left", does that mean the door is in the 3rd square or the 4th (assuming you're using 10 foot squares)? That sort of thing. But even if everybody's on the same page as far as terminology, there will be mistakes. You'll misspeak or say something misleading or ambiguous; or they'll mishear you, misunderstand you, or just plain fuck up. And that's fine. If you were actually in a dungeon mapping, you'd probably do a lot worse. You just need the players, and especially the mapper, to understand and be at peace with this. Don't let a perfectionist be the mapper.

Alternately, you can describe things and then you, yourself, periodically draw out (or reveal) the sections they've gone through. Basically, don't worry about drawing bits of the map until they come to something confusing/complicated, something important, or until they've covered enough ground that that, in itself, would start to become confusing if you didn't draw things out.

>>51438501
Describe the rooms. If the players want to draw it out, they can. But your map is for you.

How would you go about making an Oni and Beastmen race in ACKS?

>>51438692
>>51438735
Really appreciate it, anons.

I've been dying to do a dungeon crawler, but the GMs in the group are mostly into narration. So now my hand has been forced, so to speak. In fact, I've never played a tabletop game that actually had us go through a dungeon on a map or anything.

anyone else having problems downloading BD&D stuff from the trove? im trying to download the heavy version of the rules cyclopedia but it doesn't let me

>>51437724
>Please do,use spoiler tags

What, you think that there is some kind of kink bullshit to go with that or something?

>>51438783
Oh, different question. I like the bits with the adventuring in the wilderness, pfinding points of interest, and having random encounters as the party travels, but is there any way to track movement or having encounters without a hex map?

>>51437664
Who cares? Play how you want more info on beastmen please.

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>>51439591
Just mark points on the map. Use a compass (or ruler) to move people a day's travel.

>>51439643
Any estimate of how big it's supposed to be?m I've got the digital version of the world map, but I'm not sure how to transcribe it and the individual countries and regions onto paper.

>>51439682
I'd make several region maps on the smallest scale I could, but you should use whatever scale you're comfortable with.

>>51439632

What is this obsession with beastmen. They tend to live in tribes, but some live in the lawful cities with humans. Tend to be strong but dumb, or clever and frail, or sly and cowardly and other animal stereotypes that match their animal.

They are incredibly fecund, and can reproduce with almost anything big enough and typically have more traits of the one on top during sex. This does not apply to humans as beast genes are too strong for them to express. Needless to say most who live in lawful human society are extremely religious and chaste, gay, or castrated. They wouldn't be welcome otherwise.
all of that above isn't even my fetish.

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True AD&D™

>>51440076
>beast genes are too strong for them
Gene Seller, enough of these games. We're going into battle and we need your strongest genes!

>>51440076
>all of that above isn't even my fetish.
But it's mine

>>51440087
What's with these posts? Is there such a thing as a True AD&D™?

>>51440251
You can’t handle my strongest genes. No one can, my strongest genes are fit for a beast, let alone a man.

How do you handle your goblins and goblinoids?

>>51440265
It exists as a Platonic Form, an ideal concept that one can only strive to approach yet never fully achieve. A means by which all rules ever published by TSR, Inc. through the end of AD&D at the century's turn are incorporated into the ultimate experience of AD&D and autism combined.

>>51440265 c >>51332865, >>51333020

>>51440291
"RAW" / "BtB" 1E AD&D is a subset of True AD&D™

>>51440251
>>51440275
I know a lot of people are sick of it, but I never get tired of that fucking video.

>>51396252

History seems to point to both Gygax's Greyhawk and Arneson's Blackmoor campaigns as being the first to deviate from the traditional wargames being played on sand tables with miniatures. Both campaigns seemed to be contemporaries of each other and had different house rules.

>>51398473

Ummm what?

>>51441540
It's not True AD&D.

Sorry for, again, sounding like a noob but what are even the core 'values' or ideas of the OSR, anyway? Beside trying to emulate the mechanics of AD&D. What defines it as opposed to, say 3ed and onward. I want an honest answer because I'm curious, not to be told I'm a darn kiddy and ruined the hobby.

>>51443280
Try giving the files in these posts a read:
>>51395630
>>51395630

They shoud help answer your questions with more nuance and analysis than anyone here can without some seriously long posts.

>>51443477

You only linked one post.

>>51443501
>>51395575

>>51443280
>Beside trying to emulate the mechanics of AD&D
Most of us are trying to emulate Basic D&D, not Advanced D&D.

The TSR editions are:
>Original
LBB (Little Brown Books, OD&D with no supplements)
OD&D (Original Dungeons and Dragons)
Holmes Basic
>Basic
Moldvay Basic
B/X (Moldvay+Cook Basic)
BECMI (Mentzer Basic)
RC (Rules Cycolpedia)
>Advanced
AD&D (Advanced Dungeons and Dragons)
2e (Advanced Dungeons and Dragons, 2nd edition)

The Basic and Aadvanced lines released simultaneously, but otherwise that's chronological.
>What defines it as opposed to, say 3ed and onward
A lot of people would make the case that 2e isn't OSR.
That's why we give it the numberwang treatment normally reserved for WotC "D&D"
>are even the core 'values' or ideas of the OSR, anyway?
Here's the run down: >>51331392
That PDF is a little smug, but no one's been added to make something better.

>Aadvanced
*Advanced
>added
*assed

File: Allegory of the osrg cave.jpg (524KB, 1024x646px) Image search: [Google]

524KB, 1024x646px

I made this for you, /osrg/

I apologize if it ever sound antagonistic, it's just that my understanding of 'oldschool' D&D bring to mind murderous modules ran by no-fun-allowed neckbeards who murder player characters by the dozen, endless pages of table, game balance being such an alien non-developed concept that it make caster supremacy look like a walk in the park (at the cost of playing a wizard with 1 HP at level 1) and the mere idea of role playing being seen as some sort of pretentious trite only fit for those weird kids playing Vampire, with their trenchcoat and katana. Not only that but the idea of having a fleshed out setting seems also alien to such games, with their modules and weirdness. In other word, pure murder hobo.

>>51443662
Oh and it the OSR being filled with old croak hipsters like the RPG Pundit.

>>51443662

'Kay. Lurk more and learn. (Or don't, its' no skin off my nose.)

>>51443662
But anon, murder hobos allow for crazy awesome storytelling possibilities!

https://dndwithpornstars.blogspot.co.nz/2010/01/sandboxes-and-roguish-work-ethic.html

>>51378783
HOW DARE YOU CALL THOSE ARGUMENTS DUMB :^)

>>51443707
Maybe so but I am willing to admit I am an unfortunate product of the 3e and early internet era. I'd say the OSR certainly fascinate me because of how much I had grown discontent with the editions of D&D which are/were my contemporaries. Especially because, looking at the older stuff, there seem to be a certain style to it which does not reflect this ouroboros of inter-referential fantasy which seems to involve D&D setting a trend which other fantasy author use and 20 years later the byproduct of said trend are influencing D&D. Such as the influence D&D had on videogame and anime. The 'weird fantasy' of oldschool D&D seems unique and fresh again after the torrent of generic fantasy settings.

>>51433315
I agree with the others--aim high and make something worth a few more bucks.

If you're going to put something out there for a dollar, you might as well do like Dyson Logos does--give it all away for free and put out a patreon.

>>51443662
Nah. Every table had their own way of playing D&D, and the games as written are very simple. To the point where it's practical to play with people who don't even know the rules (as long as the DM is on point). For all the accusations of hipsterism and obscure grognardiness, old school D&D is about the most noob friendly PnP RPG there is... which makes sense, because before it existed there was no fan base for PnP at all.

If you don't like being 1HP weenies to begin with, you can just start characters at level two or three.

Balance as imagined by WotC game designers wasn't really a thing, but old school wizards and fighters are both viable in the hands of a creative player.

the "tons of complicated rules and tables" is usually a reference to AD&D, which was filled with lots of junk, but no worse than 3e.

Also, it was mainly the DM who had to deal with most of the rules, behind the screen--unlike later editions, where players had to learn at least a few dozen pages of rules to even make a character.

File: Fritz Leiber - FGM 1 - Swords and Deviltry.pdf (1B, 486x500px)

1B, 486x500px

>>51443662
>murderous modules
There are a few nasty modules, but only a few.
>no-fun-allowed neckbeards who murder player characters by the dozen,
If you act reckless or suicidal, you'll die.
If you act shrewd, paranoid, or cautious, you won't.
>endless pages of table,
??? What does he mean by this?
>game balance being such an alien non-developed concept
If the monsters are too tough, you run away and find a different dungeon. Balance between players doesn't really need to exist, because everyone is equally good outside of combat. Higher level characters are better in combat, but it's kind of hard to notice because *everyone* is shit in combat.
And there is a semblance of game balance.
>it makes caster supremacy look like a walk in the park (at the cost of playing a wizard with 1 HP at level 1)
Magic-Users also level slower. And level 1 Fighters who rolled max up can still die in one hit from s goblin.
There's also no caster supremacy. A Fighter will always be much better than a Magic-User of equal xp.
You want a Magic-User (read: panic button) in your party, but you don't want them to be you.
>the mere idea of role playing being seen as some sort of pretentious trite
Admittedly, Gygax was in that camp.
But that doesn't mean we all are. You don't need an overarching narrative to roleplay.
>the idea of having a fleshed out setting seems also alien to such games,
Reminder that TSR was the company obsessed with making settings.
WotC added Eberron (made by some guy in a contest) and Points of Light (a non-setting).
>with their modules and weirdness.
If a module clashes with your setting, adapt the module or don't run it.
>In other word, pure murder hobo.
Nah, murder hobos are a WotC invention. They die pretty quick in OSR.
This here's Sword & Sorcery (read: thief hobos) country.

>>51443874
>For all the accusations of hipsterism and obscure grognardiness, old school D&D is about the most noob friendly PnP RPG there is... which makes sense, because before it existed there was no fan base for PnP at all.
Yes, one thing which has increasingly bugged me over the years of playing a lot of different system is that it's very, very hard to get people into RPG because they often get frustrated at not grasping rules.

>the "tons of complicated rules and tables" is usually a reference to AD&D, which was filled with lots of junk, but no worse than 3e.
Having recently played both modern D&D and relatively recent RPG with newer players, I admit my criticism of oldschool game is unfair when I've played fucking Exalted 2e with one player being relatively green to RPG. As you might expect, it's a clusterfuck for him but raging about Exalted is for another thread.

>>51443923
>they often get frustrated at not grasping rules
Here's ALL the rules a player needs for LBB:

>char gen
• add three 6-sided dice to find an apptitude, you have three aptitudes
• add three 6-sided dice to try for a bonus, you have three possible bonuses
• pick an archetype: Fighter, Abhuman-Spook, Van Helsing, subhuman (Dwarf), subhuman (Elf), subhuman (Hobbit)
• roll a die (based on archetype) to find you hp

>combat
• hp is how far you are from losing the fight
• AC is resistance to losing hp
• (w/ CHAINMAIL) add two 6-sided dice to attack, you hit if you rolled below your foe's AC
• (w/out CHAINMAIL) subtract you foe's AC from your target number, you hit if you roll above it on a 20-sided die
• if you hit, roll a 6-sided die to find how much up your foe loses

>magic
• if you can use magic, I'll roll to give you some spells
• they do what they say they do
• for now, pick one (you can use it once during the adventure)

>non-combat
• tell me what you want to do
• I'll tell you what happens

>the goal
• find treasure
• try not to die

It takes longer to explain roleplay than it does to explain the rules.

>>51444529
True, there is an elegant simplicity to it which seems rather gone in modern RPG. Just because I have the patience and single-mindedness to learn a system doesn't mean most newbies do.

Also:
>pick an archetype: Fighter, Abhuman-Spook, Van Helsing, subhuman (Dwarf), subhuman (Elf), subhuman (Hobbit)
I see you are the HUMAN FIGHTERS ONLY! type. Show on the doll where the special snowflake bad touched you.

>>51444569
Fighting-Man is the racial class of Man.
Magic-Users are questionably human at best.

OD&D's de facto race-as-class only got weird when they added Clerics.

>>51444616
Man you are one crusty grognard. I bet you don't even have electricity in your cave and use smoke messages to post on 4chan!

>>51444630
I was born old, and remained that way my whole life.

>>51444882
>>51444882
>>51444882