/CofD/ &/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

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Anyone ever play a futuristic campaign like those Bleeding Edge books?

Which splat has the best waifu potential?

>>51358494

Anyone ever played World of Future Darkness?

>>51358756
Isn't that shadow run?

>>51358494
How did that ginger munter ever get on this show

>>51358804
Hollywood diplomacy. Either fucking a show runner, related to someone fucking a show runner, or does cocaine with a show runner.

>>51358776

No?

It's basically VtM in Cyberpunk 2020.

I seriously hope none of you ever fell for the Golconda meme.

>>51358990
I love Golconda.

>>51358697

Geist. Your waifu is inside your soul. Also shes a spooky ghost monster thing, but hey, gotta take the good with the bad.

>>51358697
All flavors of Immortals are best waifus

>>51358990

If you got True Faith, you're alright.

>>51358697
A Daeva has potential to be amazing or terrifying so I'm going with that.

>>51359039

What bad?

>>51358697
Mage again. Life allows her to be exactly what you want, while Mind and Fate allows her to never fail you.

>>51359050
>That blood bather waifu that keeps trying to trick you into it for your own good.
>The reborn waifu who delights in embarrassing you by coming on to you while still in a young body.
>A kinky body snatching waifu that keeps a closet of 'outfits' for fun.
>Purified waifu that's into getting really rough, body mods, and snuff even though none of it will last more than a day or two on her.
You have good taste my friend.

Mages are the splats for normies and autists.

Normies because you don't have to give up anything in exchange for your superpowers (and of course they're the best ones despite having no major sacrifices involved!)

Autists because the open ended nature lets them argue relentlessly about semantics.

Prove me wrong you can't also changeling best splat

>>51359143
>you don't have to give up anything in exchange for your superpowers

U fukin what? I have never played a mage game where our character's lives weren't turned to shit by it.

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>>51359143
My favorite splats have always been Hunter (either, though I tend a little more towards Vigil) or Wraith.

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Which splat has the best husbando potential?

>>51359178

That's nowhere near as life destroying as becoming a Vampire, Werewolf or Changeling, m8. Last thread was even espousing the virtues of playing a Mage because you can keep in touch with your former life and humanity MUCH more easily.

>>51359189
Werewolf obviously.

>>51359187

Reckoning is more fun. All of the Vigilfags i've met get such a boner at the idea of being 'OOH-RAH BLACK OPS OPERATER OPERATING GONNA KILL ME THEM NIGGEEEERRRRRR I MEAN FURRIES AND LEECHES, YEAH!'

In general I really hate the game. Its either that or they want to be scrappy hobos and normies who kill supers on the weekend. Whatever happened to being crusader-knights fighting against the darkness hiding beneath society with faith and fire?

>>51359209
On the other hand Promethean has it worse than anyone else 90% of the time. At least unlike those he can hope for a happy ending.

>>51359209
That's an extremely rosy picture they're painting then, because in tAw at least, you're going to have issues with other members of the Consilium asking you why you are still hanging out with the Townies, at best. At worst you'll have a pack of ready-made spies for when the Seers come calling, or a bunch of possible abyssal incursions from your neighborhood Scelesti. If you manage to disentangle yourself from most of that, you still have the fact that Legacies basically warp the way you perceive the world to the point where empathizing with most normal Sleepers is more or less impossible.

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>>51359189

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>>51359261
I tend to keep my players away from the more...well-equipped compacts, I prefer Tier I or II a great deal more, and those tend to view monsters more with pulse-pounding terror than they do as validating their machismo.

There are like no Time artifacts in Mage, anyone have any ideas for powerful ones a nasty baddie might have?

>>51359282

I get the feeling a lot of Mage fans, not necessarily players (but them too), act like you stay the same and just get superpowers because you are a Cool Dude.

>>51359282
Mages are expected to keep up a normal life in addition to their magical bullshit.

>>51359327

Powerful Time artifacts seem like a self solving problem.

Changeling 2e when?

Also I hate making backstory. Is there maybe a table where you can roll your Durance and how you escaped or something?

>>51359340
That doesn't make that either
>A
Easy
or
>B
Equally enforced in all locations.

I would love to watch some of the Legacies keep up a 'normal life' like say, Fallen Pillars or Daksha?

>>51359405
Look up a plot summary for SVU make it edgier with a fantasy twist.

Like you were kidnapped by a member of the gentry that claimed she was your fairy godmother and you spent your durance being fistfucked as a party favor at a hip arcadian dance club.

>>51359405
>Also I hate making backstory. Is there maybe a table where you can roll your Durance and how you escaped or something?
you shouldn't be playing these games
just go to tvtropes and hit random a few times

>>51359485
>Conjoined Twins
>Sapient Cetaceans
>Training from Hell

Okay so a pair of conjoined twins where swimming and then they went to Arcadia were they became dolphins and they had to train hard as warriors to escape.

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>>51359550
>your durance is ecco
there you go

>>51359485
This sounds like a pretty great way to shit out surreal concepts actually.

>>51359261

Who the fuck is playing operators in the game about average folks? I like Vigil over Reckoning because I hate the idea of the mortals versus monsters game raking the easy way out and giving the little guys superpowers.

I want to imbue a pistol to shoot laser bolts.

How do I do this?

>>51359550
Ech You could have True Fae as twins with different personalities and training from hell could be you were a marine that was taken during combat training in some assend of nowhere. But I have no idea what to do with a fuckin dolphin

>>51359691
forces 4, transform energy, turn kinetic energy from bullet fired to lasers

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>>51359282
And all of that is shit that Mages do to themselves or get done by other Mages. Every other splat is full of drawbacks and suffering just from the innate nature of the splat, let alone that splat's personal antagonists.

Every splat has antagonists; only mages don't have any innate drawbacks.

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>>51359677
Ash poster here, I think using Operators in H:tV is perfectly valid, but just not as PCs. In one of my games a player took an atrociously high Allies rating and had a family 'Uncle' he could call on when things for the Crew got really, really bad. They always hesitated to call 'Teddy' because he was intense, creepy and willing to do truly awful things in his pursuit of helping them. Think season 1 Brock.

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>>51359868
If you don't think that Mages have antagonists outside of simply 'other mages', I really don't know what to say to you from here. I guess maybe re-read the books?
>>51359618
That sounds like an awesome Durance, you're a free Porpoise-Man trying to escape the monthly culling by the UFO invaders from above the waves, and one day, you followed the Songs home.

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>>51359923
>If you don't think that Mages have antagonists outside of simply 'other mages', I really don't know what to say to you from here. I guess maybe re-read the books?
>>51359868
>Every splat has antagonists; only mages don't have any innate drawbacks.

>>51359868
>Every splat has antagonists
Name them

>>51359952
Where do you think having an Acamoth go,
>"Hay bb, min' if I hollow out your soul? kthx."
is on the level of innate drawbacks? How about the fact that if you talk to any one about this other than other innately self-centered, usually awful people, you will sound like someone with Schizophrenia? You have to lead at best a constantly paranoid, often surreal double-life where you're never sure if some awful, soul-wrenching threat is going to rend the people you love apart? Have you read Intruders? That shit just glombs onto the Awakened Soul like bird-shit on a freshly cleaned windshield. And that's discounting Angry Spirits, Ghosts or all the other myriad crap that can *tell* when what they're looking at is a Mage.

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>get embraced
>cry yourself to sleep
>wake up unable to open your eyes

>>51359885
>>51359677
If you're going to let the Hunters be operator-tier operators, you gotta send them up against opposition that demands all of that skill. No chickenshit ezpz supernaturals they can roll over. You've got to increase the threat level a bunch.

Former operators as supernaturals are perfectly acceptable, though.

>>51360025
vampire: strix/belialbrood/vii
werewolf: pure/spirits/idigam/hosts/claimed/balehounds/maeljin
mage: scelest/seer
prom: centimani/pandoran/broken
changeling: loyalist/truefae
hunter: all the above and below/slashers
geist: abmortals
mummy: deceived
demon: angels
beast: insatiable/heroes

>>51360088
The only decent antagonist you've posted are the Pure and they did nothing wrong.

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Looking for something similar to The Invisibles comics to play.

Which WoD game is closer to that, Mage or Demon?

>>51360043
>Acamoth
Something a mage either summoned themselves by being really really deliberately shit at their job (it's nearly impossible with the new Paradox mechanics)?

So once again, caused by a mage.

The entire point of mages is that they create their own problems. They don't have any that are innate.

>>51360096
The only ones I like are True Fae, Strix, and Angels, but the question was "list all splat-tied antagonists" not "list good antagonists."

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>>51360082
For sure, but I at least think that undermines the theme of H:tR quite a bit, but to a lesser extent H:tV. Having the players go against an Elder as a group of highly trained vets is cool I guess, but I think the idea of drug gangs fighting Bloodsuckers and Werewolves with Gats, Firebombs and Drivebys to be more compelling, just my opinion.

>>51360108

Play anything, insert 50 gay and trans people in clown-makeup, sprinkle it with cocaine, bdsm and other degeneracy and you are there.

>>51360108
Mage, 100%, like to the point where I can't even really understand how someone could be confused. I believe the M:tAw Core even namedrops the Comics.
>>51360115
That's just the Acamoth, there's also all the other Abyssal stuff that doesn't need to be let in purposefully, and again, Spirits and Ghosts can generally tell when someone notices them, that's another thing to contend with. It's okay to admit being wrong sometimes, no one will think less of you.

>>51359868
What is fucking Abyss?

>>51360096
Speaking of the Pure, are pro-Pure ghost wolves a thing or not?

>>51359282
That must be an especially nosy Consilium then. In my versions of Mage society, bringing up a Mage's sleeper life is considered very rude unless that you rank among that Mage's trusted confidants.

On top of that, maintaining Sleeper relationships (especially with family) is a good way to keep yourself from slipping too deep into your Supernal identity and losing yourself to Hubris. Of course keeping Sleeper relationships will run risks with supernaturals who don't respect such boundaries or are looking for a way to tear you down. That's part of the conflict in doing so. You'd have to take measures to protect them from danger and to keep them from getting too close to your other life.

Some Mages tend to make their Supernal identities their only identities, it's true. But that's a great way to lose perspective. And all of this doesn't change the fact that it is actually fundamentally easier for a Mage to keep old relationships because he doesn't have any supernatural rage or a killer allergy to sunlight or a magic doppelganger that lived their life for them while they were off getting magical deformities.

>>51360135
Oh, for sure. I'm just saying that the problem comes from people mixing the power levels, sending Seal Team Six up against supers that are supposed to be for the lower-power Hunter groups. If you want the increased skill and firepower, you have to accept that means you're going after stronger targets.

>>51360183
Something that only affects Mages in any way when they cast spells and deliberately fuck them up. Look at the 2e Paradox rules.

>>51360176
>Spirits and Ghosts can generally tell when someone notices them
So... don't cast spirit/ghost detecting spells. Once again, problems they cause for themselves. Not problems that are innate. You've let to list any problems that will affect a mage if they all just sat around not fucking around with reality for shits and giggles.

Unlike every other splat, where merely existing has drawbacks.

>>51360096
>The only decent antagonist you've posted are the Pure and they did nothing wrong.
you didn't ask for decent antagonists you shallow fuck
if you want stupid "dur I hate you for no reason" then go back to wod

>>51359761
But what happens to the bullet?

>>51360193
>And all of this doesn't change the fact that it is actually fundamentally easier for a Mage to keep old relationships
Doesn't mean it's not fundamentally stupid, because it basically give access to your true name to everyone how is interested.

>>51360224
>Something that only affects Mages in any way when they cast spells and deliberately fuck them up. Look at the 2e Paradox rules.
I looked them up, and it's really easy to fuck it up by overreaching and then deciding it's going to be problem for those other guys.

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Why is losing Morality/Humanity/Wisdom/Clarity ect. a bad thing? It's the World of D a r k n e s s, stop being so uptight and embrace it!

>>51360267
>true name
2ed tossed that bullshit out a LONG time ago

>>51360267
The point isn't that it's not stupid. The point is that it's EASIER. Literally, physically, emotionally easier. Obviously it's dangerous, but it's doable on a level that simply isn't possible for the other splats.

>>51360318
Then what's the point of a Shadow name?

>>51360196
And I agree whole-heartedly, of the tier III compacts, my favorite is probably the Chirenon Group, if only because they involve the least amount of Wooo compared to the other ancient and mysterious conspiracies.

>>51360193
It's a balancing act, stray too far onto the Mortal side and the duties you've accumulated with your Wisdom and backbiting begin to wither, too much on the Supernal side and as you say.

>>51360348
distance between your mundane life and your mage life

>>51360348
I think using your real name in any splat is a bad idea in general. You don't want people going after your family.

>>51360082

At that point just play Night's Black Agents.

>>51360108

Either Mage or Unknown Armies.

>>51360224
So you're saying that if Mages never use their powers, and ignore their enlightenment, then they're completely safe, right? Just like uh- pretty much everybody besides Vampires and Changelings (who are safe magically too, since there are no seers or any other demands of Mages, so why should Changelings get any?)

I mean after all, there aren't any drawbacks to being a Hunter if you don't Hunter

There aren't any drawbacks to being a Demon if you don't seek hell and just keep cozy in a Cover 5 identity and never use any of your powers.

I could go on, but this is fucking stupid.

>>51360348
It keeps sympathy from forming between your magic life and mundane life; good thing since your Long-Term Nimbus would affect your family otherwise.

Also your real name gives an ever-so-slight easier time of sympathetic magic against you, but it's really negligible.

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so who/what exactly the machine God?

What relationship does he have with the Jesus that baptized Longinus?

>>51360371
You can always use your first name or a common nickname. No need to call yourself Ozymandias when Adrian serves you just as well.

>>51360460
God Machine is the cast-off skin of the Principle, like a snake does. Specifically a snake that might have inhabited a certain garden some time ago

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>>51360434
Dude, again, it's okay to admit being wrong, your True Name does indeed do things, trying to downplay is just stupid.

>>51360460
>so who/what exactly the machine God?
Part of some archmage Imperial Omens. Probably some Alienated.

>>51360421
Demons have Angels after them. Probably some other shit, but I never read the book.

Werewolves have their silver weakness and can't ignore their nature unless they want to go crazy out of balance.

Prometheans have Disquiet/Wasteland.

Geists have ghost vision that they can't turn off and thus get ghost-harassed.

Changelings have Iron and True Fae.

>>51360460
I think officially it's "who knows".

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>>51360477
But I want to be called Ozymandias!

Has anyone ever watched that Vampire: the Masquerade TV show from the 90s? It's kind of bizarre

>>51360488
Not having a True Name is like -2 to your roll. It can be made up with a single Reach or just ignored. In Mage 2e, True Name means jack shit.

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I have a question. Say a Green Beret who was helping the South Vietnamese during the War got embraced. But he still wants to help his former unit even after they fled the country as refugees, and they still respect him for what he's done and how he still protects their neighborhood.

What Backgrounds would properly represent this? Domain, Herd, and Allies? The idea is that the elders, his actual former soldiers, know he's a vampire and still maintain contact with him as he is.

I'm well aware of how much of a faggot this makes me sound like. The guy's still a monster who lurks in the dark; he just preys on the people who want to prey on HIS people.

>>51360503
And Mages have Seers, Reapers and Banishers after their lives, minds and souls.

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>>51360477

>>51360557
All of which are other mages. All mage problems come from mages. Either themselves or other mages.

This is a thing unique to Mages.

As I said from the beginning.

>>51360524
I did. It was 100% 90s cheese

>>51360587
And Demons are just Angels, making all Demon problems Angel made problems meaning they're all made from their own splat too. Fuck off you fucking Autist.

Mages aren't safe if they forsake their magic. An awakened soul is a lightning rod for the supernatural. A mage that ignores developing their magic will still find themselves crossing paths with all sorts of mysteries and they'll be easy prey the day a real horror stumbles into them.

>>51360643
>Autist
You're the one getting triggered by the stated design goal of Mage 2e, not me.

The whole point of Mage is that they get fucked over by their own Hubris.

>>51360088

>heroes
>antagonists

>>51360657
Don't Spirits love to feed from Awakened souls?

>>51360126

Strix are shit tho

>>51359677

I like superpowered Hunters tho

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Reminder to keep your werewolves on a tight leash!

>>51360657
You should learn at least to hide your own magic. Otherwise Tremere are going to find you and eat you.

>>51360681
Heroes are big bullies who love to pick on poor innocent Beasts. Gosh anon haven't you bought into the narrative yet?

>>51360176
Technically not just Mages have to worry about random Abyssal stuff they didn't call up, they're just the most likely to recognize it and know what to do. When Umbragos rolls into town someone has to deal with it, because it isn't really a Mage problem so much as a Shadow problem.

>>51360691
Everything loves to feed from the awakened. A normal human soul is a steak dinner. A mage soul is a 12 course banquet with wine pairings.

>>51360691
Yes. Just like how Ghosts will come up to you with their problems if they can see that you can see them. Abyssal shit also is attracted to Mages regardless of whether they use their power or not, >>51360676 is just talking out of his ass, and can't admit that he's got an awakened cock in his ass.

>>51360088
>forgetting Idigam, Banishers, Reapers/Tremere, Shuankhsen, and Cryptids

>>51360729

Even if that were true I'd be more interested in playing the oppressor.

Not every game has to be about being the plucky underdog with the moral highground.

>>51360778
Seer campaigns are awesome campaigns.

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>>51360722

>not being kept on a tight leash by your werewolf husband

>>51360693
I like them for the same reason I like Fetch-spawn for Changelings; they're an interesting foil for their splat that exploits their weaknesses and makes them examine themselves.

>>51360778
I would love to play a Hero, whether they were righteous smiters or just super-bullies. Both of those sound like a lot of fun.

>>51360691
Spirits can't feed off souls. They can feed off human emotion.

>>51360840
>not being the sole literal stud for an all female werewolf tribe

>>51360749
A mage with 2 dots (straight-out-of-chargen level) in Death or Spirit can do more with Ghosts or Spirits than Sin-Eaters and Werewolves.

Calling these "problems" seems remarkably dense.

Nevermind that the whole "come to you if you can see them" thing can be fixed by:

1. Not casting the "see ghosts" spell
2. Conceal yourself. The dice that Ephemera gets for Clash of Wills is so much smaller than the Mage's dice pool that they'll never see through it. They get to use their Rank, maybe their Influence if it's directly relevant. That means most spirits will be rolling 1 or 2 dice in a Clash.

So what do we know of that guy who was making a 2nd ed of genius?

>>51360939
>A mage with 2 dots (straight-out-of-chargen level) in Death or Spirit can do more with Ghosts or Spirits than Sin-Eaters and Werewolves
That's hyperbole.

>>51360460
The soulless body of the Principle that only functions to ensure its own survival with no greater purpose.

>>51360894
>Not wanting to be the sole omega to 'service' the entire pack.

Everyone is forgetting or ignoring one of the most basic reasons why a mage's life totally sucks,

Due to the Peripheral Mage Sight, which they cannot turn off, they are aware of EVERY supernatural happening around them all the time. They are constantly bombarded with this knowledge whether they like it or not. Unlike virtually all of humanity, the sweet bliss and safety of ignorance is forever denied them.

Further, they know the Truth of the universe. What would it be like to fully realize that everyone you took for granted was a Lie, that's there's already been a war for reality, and the oppressors won.

I assume this would be maddening, and results in many a new mage simply going crazy (or becoming a banisher).

For those who claim that mages don't change or can effectively choose to ignore their Awakened status, I suggest they reread the books.

I would additionally note that besides their unique antagonists, including anti-reality horrors and gods of oppression, mages can generally count most of the other splats and their antagonists as their own. Mages might be comparatively powerful in the CofD, but they need every ounce of their ability to deal with what threatens them, and the more power they obtain and use has the potential to divorce them further from their humanity and sanity.

People who view Awakened mages as little more the superheroes, are probably better off sticking with Ascension or D&D.

>>51361047
>That's hyperbole.
You'd hope so, but you'd be wrong.

Command Spirit is a 2-dot spell.

I'm not speaking out my ass here; I played a Thyrsus long enough to hit 5 dots.

>>51360939
What Arcanum do you need to keep repeatedly moving Goal Posts like you do? Don't worry, I am sure you'll find out when you actually read the books next time.

>>51361096
>oh no, I'm super intuitive as well as being all powerful

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>>51361102
Mind.

>>51360869
It's rare, but some can. There were Numen and shit in Book of Spirits.

>>51361101

Command Spirit might be a 2 dot spell, but unless you also have a higher Arcanum rating and a decent Gnosis, the spirits you're realistically able to command are not too impressive, particularly without a heck of a lot of Paradox.

>>51361165
That's still more than any other splat can control, as opposed to negotiate with.

>>51360894

I will never understand this whole femdom musclegirl shit everyone is into. I guess you want to be mothered and have control taken away? go talk to some slavs about how awful an overbearing mom figure in your life can be. Its not sexy.

>>51360287

Oh god, the Beasts are posting in the thread now. We have to get the fuck out!

>>51361128

Mage Sight is not a convenient spidey-sense.

Peripheral Mage Sight reveals just enough information to remind you of all the bad and dangerous crap that's around. I imagine that in many areas such as major cities, the "pinging" from PMS never actually stops.

>>51361128
>being all powerful
Only compared to Sleepers. Other Mages will still walk all other you, and they have a plenty of reasons to do so.

>>51361070
>>51360894
>>51360840
>>51360722

Okay, serious question: are werewolves immune to contraception? Is intimacy among them that shunned? What if you never preform vaginal intercourse; is it still a taboo? What if its two gay werewolves? What if they fuck in Crinos? I've seen videos of people take crazy huge Bad Dragon dildos before, I imagine if you take the lead the possibility for damage is minimal.

>>51361191
>That's still more than any other splat can control, as opposed to negotiate with.

Except for werewolves, geists, mummies, etc.

Less experienced mages often have just enough arrogance, power and knowledge to get foolishly themselves into a helluva lot of trouble (i.e, Hubris).

>>51358421
>Which Dark era do you think is the best?

To The Strongest was good enough to sell me on Mage after a decade of disliking the entire gameline, but I think the Companion is gonna have some incredible stuff in Black Death Vampire/Promethean, Roman Werewolf, and Roman Mummy.

>>51361219
Girly muscles can be attractive anon. Obviously going for insanely ripped girls is weird, but muscle definition can be hot on a girl, in moderation. I also like it when girls take charge, but I like being in charge too.

Not everything has to be taken to extremes.

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>>51361289
I can only talk about nwod but I'd make the bottom gaywolf pregnant because it'll be a Spirit Baby coming out and Spirits are all symbolic and shit. Also because I want to punish the players for trying to find a loop hole.

>>51361246
>Mage Sight is not a convenient spidey-sense.

That is exactly what it is. You're thinking of Unseen Sense

>>51361360

Didn't they get rid of the Malevolent Spirit Baby crap in the Forsaken revise?

>>51361289
They got rid of that in 2e, because it was dumb.

>>51361096
>Due to the Peripheral Mage Sight, which they cannot turn off, they are aware of EVERY supernatural happening around them all the time. They are constantly bombarded with this knowledge whether they like it or not. Unlike virtually all of humanity, the sweet bliss and safety of ignorance is forever denied them.
A lot of other supernaturals are aware stuff like that exists in a general sense, and I've always considered knowing something exists but not knowing what exactly it is or how to combat it or even where to start more frightening.

>Further, they know the Truth of the universe. What would it be like to fully realize that everyone you took for granted was a Lie, that's there's already been a war for reality, and the oppressors won.
What about the people who learn that information from Mages but lack their capabilities?

>mages can generally count most of the other splats and their antagonists as their own.
The same could be said of Werewolves.

>People who view Awakened mages as little more the superheroes, are probably better off sticking with Ascension or D&D.
I agree with you on this, but I dislike people who say it's just as bad being a Werewolf or a Vampire. I've seen plenty of people hesitate at the idea of becoming one kind of supernatural or another, but it's extremely rare to find someone who wouldn't jump at the chance to be a Mage despite knowing the risks.

>>51361289
In apocalypse, Werewolves aren't allowed to fuck each other because they're way too potent and any offspring they had would be a Metis (a deformed werewolf whose true form is Crinos). Obviously werewolves break this rule all the fucking time and Metis are a common thing, despite being shunned by werewolf conservatives.

>>51361360

I think the spiritual representation of the condom and modern contraception would outweigh the imprint of werewolf taboo, given how strong it is as an idea in the modern day person's perspective whether are for or against it.

Admit it you just want to see some mpreg assbabbies you fucking deviant.

>>51361246
I don't have that in my games.

It's dumb.

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>>51361436
I can be a deviant and I can want to punish players at the same time!

>>51361431

I was asking more about Apocalypse, yeah. I'm just perplexed that none of them have figured out how to use a condom - I mean, they've existed since ancient times in some form or another - and female forms of contraception.

Granted, I could also see an ST turning birth control into being Wyrm tainted as a plot by the Wyrm to destroy humanity the white race by rendering humanity, the werewolves or the kinfolk, infertile.

>>51361327
Werewolves have to bargain with spirits and the jury is out on Geist 2e. Mummies do causally makes ghosts their bitches though.

>>51361487
Honestly there's no special reason to use condoms. Metis aren't that big a deal to most Werewolves and no contraceptive is perfect anyway.

If you're going to sin and all that.

>>51361436
Do you not?

>>51361487
>humanity the white race
Don't be silly, all non-asians are human.

Blinking isn't a necessity for vampires, right?

>>51361459
>I don't have that in my games.
>It's dumb.

While you can play Mage however you wish, Peripheral Mage Sight (and universal unseen sense in 1e), with all its myriad implications, is a fundamental aspect of mages and the setting. It is both their defining, quintessential ability and burden, arguably even a curse. It serves as as a constant, often continuous, reminder of the Lie and the dangers of the CofD.

>>51361459
Doesn't matter for the purposes of our arguments.
>>51361421
>A lot of other supernaturals are aware stuff like that exists in a general sense
For sure, though I'd venture that Mages, Geists, Demons and Mummies (...kinda) tend to be the best informed when it comes to other supernaturals. Werewolves are too busy, Vampires are up their own asses and everyone else has to deal with terrifying shit trying to drag them down on an almost daily basis.
>What about the people who learn that information from Mages but lack their capabilities?
I think it's a difference in scale. It's one thing to know the truth, but it is an entirely different thing to Know The Truth. Sleepwalkers are even some what inured from this, as they usually don't have the capability to really understand stuff like Abyssal incursions.
>The same could be said of Werewolves.
Definitely, though being less familiar, how often to they deal with Ghosts?
>I've seen plenty of people hesitate at the idea of becoming one kind of supernatural or another, but it's extremely rare to find someone who wouldn't jump at the chance to be a Mage despite knowing the risks.
Oh yeah, being a Mage is definitely better than being a Wolf or Leech (not even beginning to defend Changelings or Promms...) but I'd actually be okay with being a Geist, it sounds like a kinda awesome deal if you don't make an extreme habit of getting offed.

>>51361559
It is if they don't want to get found out by super vigilant Hunters.

>>51361530

Depends too much on the people involved and levels of preparedness they take. Birth control plus condoms usually do the job, unless you're extremely unlucky. But I have had people argue, without proof, that Werewolves are too 'robust' for any of those to work, like if a dudewolf came his jizz would blast right through the condom and fertilize immediately with a 100% success rate.

On a similar note, what happens if two different Changing Breeds have heterosexual intercourse? can they even produce offspring? would it have the potential to create new werecreatures? Or would they just be weird kinfolk who can potentially make offspring who become one or the other?

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>>51361596
>be hunter
>be toll station attendant
>write down every license plate of drivers who don't blink.

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>>51361640
That's actually a good way to get leads. I'm going to have to remember that one.

>>51361639
In Apocalypse, the werecritters were each individually created by Gaia, so there's no way to make variants without her consent and probably interference.

I am however down with condom-ripping cumshots from werewolves, no way in hell that Get sperm isn't tearing through the weak man-thing's inventions. It even has +1 Strength if their totem is Fenris.

>>51361487
I'm pretty sure the not mating with other Garou is so you don't get distracted by fellow soldiers on the battlefield more so than making abomination babies.

>>51361586
>Definitely, though being less familiar, how often to they deal with Ghosts?
The Gift of Death and Lodge of Death exist for a reason. Most ghosts outside of the Underworld are scrubs though.

>>51361688
I adore some of my player's fact-finding methods, from using their child to search for a lost puppy to get peeks into Vampire's daytime Havens, to using quad-drones to make passes over a Werewolf's territory to mark it's hunting grounds.

>>51361586
>I'd actually be okay with being a Geist, it sounds like a kinda awesome deal if you don't make an extreme habit of getting offed

Geist is the spooky ghostspirit bumming a ride, not the person with powers.

That said, yeah, if you're going to get turned into a CofD supernatural, that's probably the best deal. As long as your Geist buddy isn't too huge of a cunt.

>>51361705
That and every Werewolf carrying a sterile Metis could be carrying a Kinfolk baby instead. Gotta keep the population up for the self-inflicted forever war!

>>51361689

>your jizz is Strength 2 bare minimum

>as strong as an average male adult human

jesus christ

>>51361689
>werewolf cumshots rocket right through the cervix and into the uterus
>accompanied by the sound effect from the ring the bell hammer carnival game
>inside of uterus is bruised for weeks

>>51361749
>As long as your Geist buddy isn't too huge of a cunt

Just a friendly reminder that this *horror* setting is called the Chronicles of *Darkness*, not the Chronicles of My Little Geist, Friendship is Magic.

I want stories of genius games.

>>51361705

Oh I agree. I know it sounds fetishy but it actually came up in a game I ran, a Shadowlord player was moonlighting with a Bastet and her Pack became very suspicious. Not because of the intel they were feeding each other, but because of her coming home with sex hair all the time and generally looking distracted for a few days afterward.

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>>51361749
Ahm yeah you're right. I forget the term for the person with the powers however.
>As long as your Geist buddy isn't too huge of a cunt.
It'd be like the odd couple, only inside your own head and dead!

I've been out of the loop. Beast, is it any good? Seems a but uninspired from what I read on the wiki.

>>51361785

Now, how can we weaponize this murderous moneyshot in the great war against the Wyrm?

>>51361819
Beast is hot garbage. Not just uninspired but aggressively, insultingly bad.

>>51361548

That's factually false. Only white people and asians have a soul, which can be witnessed by looking at the level of civilization attained historically.

>>51361863

Hm, reading through the wiki... is this game a trans metaphor?

>>51361841

>Pack is innfiltrating a Pentex compound
>surprise! its an amubhs
>cyber-wyrm-beast is set upon us; the evil Good Doctor is laughing maniacally from his control room
>the Get Ahorun shifts to Crinos form and whips his dick out
>even the cyber beast is confused!
>he Get howls with the fury of his ancestors as his potency blasts free from his mighty rod and punches a hole clean through the beast's head, killing it instantly
>he switches back to Homid and grins at the cameras
>'Did you forget? Its No-Fap November!'

>>51361876
Explain gingers

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>>51361773
>>51361785
>Be Blasts-the-Cervix, Get Lovemesser Doctrinaire
>See Zhyzhak across the battlefield in Malfeas
>Dick her till she spiral is out of her head
>Dick the White Howlers back into existence

>>51361841
>werewolves stroke their cocks as they run into battle
>in either glabro or crinos form
>they stop before reaching their enemies
>they keep jackin' it
>they point their dicks just before climax
>semen explodes out with all the force and velocity of a cannonball
>enemies are shredded by flying white missiles of death

>>51361819
It's not very good, but it also isn't as bad as some people make it out to be. Quality-wise it's the second coming of Geist except with more bullying and better editing right down to the broken powers and ineffectual antagonists.

>>51361749
Being a cunt is relative, but having a crazy ghost stapled to your soul is never going to not be wild. Your Geist is always going to try to get you to do things, and being a crazy ghost, those things will often not be things you want to do. Even assuming you are cool with starting car accidents or making people angry to feed your buddy, you still have to deal with all the other ghosts you now see all the time like the kid in the Sixth Sense, and apparently there are worse things that appear for the Bound.

>>51361797

A geist could be be horrifying without being a cunt.

>>51361965
Hey at least Geist has fun concept

>>51361921

>reverse-rape the Black Spirals back into the fold

There should be a doujin about this.

>>51361965
Man, the Geist antagonists are really sad just out of the box, they've got what, Fallen versions of themselves and a bunch of different shades (ha) of Ghosts.

>>51361897
Not even a metaphor. The corebook has multiple examples of trans Beasts using pronouns like "zer". But that isn't what makes it bad. Trans people are whatever. Don't care. But the game contradicts itself all the time and insists on giving the moral highground to people who don't deserve it and all of this is framed in such a condescending, smug atmosphere that it hurts to read.

>>51361876
I was making a joke about Asians having different souls that allow them to become Kuei-jin. I really don't want this to devolve into a /his/ style argument about Ethiopia, Mali, ect.

>>51361971

All this stuff is relative. The comparison is other CofD splats and how much becoming each supernaural would fuck your life, not remaiming a blisfully unawares mortal.

sin eater with chill geist>mage>cunt geist>*

>>51362033

Its very contradictory to a setting where everyone is kind of an asshole and no one has the right of it.

>>51361900
>>51361940
>>51361998
Turns out, the way back to Gaia's heart was Rape. Auhron in Crinos Rape. The Children of Gaia were right all along. Also, why Metis are bad, no Rape.
>>51361971
Totally, i'm not saying it's all grave-roses and not fearing the reaper, but it's certainly a better gig than Undead Politico, Spirit Cop or Pinocchio.

>>51362066
>>51362050
To be honest I haven't seen much downside to being spirit world border patrol. At the very least, you don't have to confront your mortality every time you take a walk.

>>51360551
Bump for confirmation?

>>51362033

That just reeks of SJW-thinking. 'My crazy notions are good and progressive and you are Hitler if you disagree'

>>51362101
I wouldn't think being a Werewolf was so bad if you didn't have to worry about wigging out and thrill-killing somebody for cutting you off in traffic, or having a bunch of other biker/hobo dudes just showing up at your house and going on about how you have to do 'X' because 'The Pack'.

>>51358421
To the Strongest. Hellenic setting with mages is best

>>51362049

Ok, we can bring it to a /pol/-style discussion right away then instead.

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>>51361047
>That's hyperbole.

Except it's really not. Even The Pack acknowledges the superiority of Mages. Apparently even Apprentice Mages are better than Elder Werewolves at what they do. The only edge they have against the Awakened is their intimacy and such. But who gives a shit about that? Have a look at the image. It's blatant Mage Supremacy in a Werewolf book.

>>51362137

A War of Rage game could be really cool.

>>51362007
Everybody forgets about Abmortals, which is probably why they're getting dropped in second edition and being replaced with something that sounds like Hollows from Bleach or WoD Spectres.

>>51362033
I would compare it to controversy around Ghostbusters 2016. Fringe assholes are used to present Beasts as better then they really are while vast majority of people who have real grievances against the thing are ignored.

>>51362135
The first part is valid and I hadn't thought of it, but the second part is something you will get in any gang. Krewes in Geist are basically like that, too. And I'm sure that if you are a wanpire you will have to do things for your Prince or whatever.

>>51362124

Well, yeah, that's who they were trying to sell too. They even put one of the antagonists in a literal fedora.

It didn't really work out though, the made the Beasts so fucking irredeemable that the SJWs took offense at the comparison too.

>>51359327
Simplest one ever is a 5-dot Artifact which writes extra time onto your timeline, stopping the rest of the universe, and letting you plan, get where you need to be, and set the best ambushes ever.

All of this is why I usually keep game lines and worlds completely separate, in both owod and nwod.

>>51361897

Promethean is the trans game, silly.

>>51362124
In McFarland's (reluctant) defense, from what I understand, Beast was just supposed to be a game about boogymen feeding by scaring people, but his ideology leaked in because he can't separate his beliefs from his work and not because he was trying to make a political statement. It's why it had so many mixed messages and pro-abuse stuff.

>>51360729
>Beasts
>innocent
There are no innocent beasts, only degrees of monstrosity. Feeding on abuse and terror kinda makes you the villain by default.

>>51362161
>WoD Spectres.
Good, because I totally forgot Abmortals existed, and Spectres were the best part of an already stupendously fluffed game line, Dark Reflections, Doomslayers and Sea of Shadows are probably in my top 5 books that WW ever released.
>>51362201
Yeah, you basically are a Krewe's bitch too once you join, I guess I just membership as less iconic and necessary than a Wolf's place in the Pack.
>wanpire you will have to do things for your Prince or whatever.
Only idiots want to be vampires, it's like, the worst way of getting Immortality in WoD, barring like, some of the really crappy Immortals.
>>51362209
Beast would have been fine if they would have just let them be evil, they work perfectly okay if their just like, the Pushers of the supernatural world, trying to get all of the other splats to indulge their worst natures.

>>51360848
sadly won't happen as long as Matthew "no, trust me, these are absolutely the bad guys" McFarland has any control over Beast

>>51362201
God forbid you are in a Magically pledge bound motley of Changelings.

>>51362141

>interfering with a mage is a great way to find out which fates are worse than death

>Apprentice mages can work spirit magic even elder werewolves can't

Nice.

>>51362270
Fuck how did I never make this connection before

>>51362327
>"But Anon-kun, thou must, thy promised the Moon."
"No, it's my goddamn sweater Becky, you're not getting this one too!"

>>51362033
Do trans people actually play as trans characters? I would assume they'd rather play the gender they want to be.

>>51362383
This has always been my (admittedly limited) personal experience but I've seen a number of groups not allow 'cross play' for one reason or another (mostly LARPs).

>>51362361
>game about characters in someone else's body who are trying to build an identity they can be comfortable with in a world that rejects them

>>51362383

I do!

>>51362383
Pretty much this. Usually I play what I want to be, occasionally I will play what my meat makes me if I have a good character concept that requires it, but I have never played a trans character nor do I have any interest in doing so.

>>51362101
Werewolves often die young. Fun fact: according to various 1e books, Werewolves were by far the most populous of the big three, but it didn't seem that way do to attrition.

I think it was something like:

Vampires 1/50,000
Werewolves 1/12,000
Mages 1/20,000

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>>51362141

Holy mother of god. Mages (or just the supremacists) everywhere are going to get a boner from this.

>>51362453
That is some crazy amount of people with nukes in their asses

>>51362383
Most of my characters are quietly non-binary/fluid, just because I don't ever think they'd really care about a hardset gender identity. Even if you're a charming bard/sorc (or wizard) who could get into any pants or skirts you wanted, being able to reliably change your physical form to whatever you feel like does things to a person.
and my barbarian/fighter just doesn't give a shit

>>51362141
Why would a thrysus need a flashlight?

>>51362521
Yantra? Imbued item? She only dabbled in Forces due to being Thyrsus and converted the Light to Kinetic Energy but couldn't create it from scratch?

Name 1 (one) thing that the Tremere have done wrong.

Protip: You can't.

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>>51362574
Spent a stint as vampires instead of mages, as they were originally born to be.

>>51362574
They are less cool than their NWoD version. That's pretty wrong.

>>51362568
All possible but why not use Life magic and enhance your night vision or alternatively give yourself owl eyes and not have to worry about the flashlight?

>>51362588
The Tremere have always been jealous of Mages

>>51362634
They were originally a House in Ars Magicka (who WW owned at the time) before they were ever vampires in VtM. I'm glad they are back where they belong.

>>51362453

Those numbers aren't accurate. Werewolves are the rarest of the three with Vampires as the most common.

>>51362630
In the story, the flashlight was used to collapse some cave full of rats or something. Hence my assumption that it was used for Forces magic or as a Yantra.

>>51362140
And that's why we can't have nice threads on African civilization. I just want to be able to talk about Ethiopian history with that Ethiopian guy who occasionally posts without him being chased off by WE WUZ memes or arguments on whether Ethiopians are actually white.

It's so hard to get good Ethiopian history outside Ethiopia because nobody wants to fund projects to buy and translate books except for like the Italians and Germans I think.

>>51362588
I want to Blood-Bond with that qt.
For all three dots.

>>51362141
lol even the writers are mage supremacists
But we all knew that...

>>51362679
Mages are more common than wolves? That's surprising actually

>>51362574
Gutter-magic and a sun allergy is what they're saddled with. But sure, let's not be mean to the magical cripples/retards and let them think they're better off.

>>51362679
There is no way mages are more common than either. With the exception of prometheans or mummies they'd have to be the least common.

>>51362405
>>51362383
That's what I've personally seen in my games. Trans people don't WANT to be "trans", they want to be the gender they know they're supposed to be.

>>51362742
Ech I don't think Demons and Geists are more numerous than mages. I would say that changelings are probably more numerous than both wolves and mages thou

Can Auspex or Thaumaturgy tell you how many times a diablerist has committed diablerie or just that they have done so?

>>51362742
This. They're society is full of sorcerers, proximi, psychics and one-off supernaturals because they wouldn't be able to function at the level they do otherwise.

>>51362710
>>51362742

I'm just going by Dave's opinion on the matter, to be honest. He's a guy you can trust. Here's the link to the forum page.

http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/543689-supernatural-population-sizes/page2

>>51362788
for Auspex, it's auras in WoD and visions in CofD, so I'd say just whether or not they have, not how many times.

No idea on Thaumaturgy.

>>51362788
Just that somebody is diablerist (or Assamite, which is effectively the same thing).
Aura fractures will be stronger if the diablerie was frequent, recent or upon a strong individual, but you can't discern which one of those.

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>>51362811
>trusting Dave when it comes to Mages

>>51362872
>Doubting our lord and savior

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THE MAGE SUPREMACISTS ARE COMING BACK

>>51362693

I guess they had some pretty big mud huts?

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>>51363059
QUICK, POST WEREWOLVES

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>>51363077
Does this count?

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>>51363059
>implying they ever left

>>51363077
>QUICK, POST WEREWOLVES
ok

Friendly reminder that you cannot prove that the Salubri aren't soul-eating monsters.

>>51362141 This is why Mage's break my suspension of disbelief. It's hard to defend your territory if a Spirit Mage and his Cabal can decide they want to control it to perform experiments on spirits.

Apparently their are Lodges to deal with that sort of ting. I think two different time traveler hunting Lodges were mentioned and there is a Lodge dedicated to capturing the Mad and turning them into living weapons.

I've been compiling a list of homebrew ideas on how to nerf Mages without harming their central themes. Things like stuff costing more Mana to use spells in certain circumstances, no exceptional successes allowing a spell to ignore Withstand, limiting (but not completely eliminating) the use of creative thaumaturgy on the fly, and providing other splats some means of not being completely fucked over by Space, Fate, and Time magic without any way to counter it.

Something that could prove useful are Numena that let spirit's resist mage magic using their stats instead of Rank for spirits that are supposed to pose more of a challenge or so Werewolf Totems and spirit allies don't immediately become enslaved by some random Thyrus.

I'm not saying Mages can't be stronger than other splats, but they also shouldn't trivialize them as much as they do.

>>51363169
This isn't Dungeons and Dragons, the various gamelines aren't even intended to be fully compatible and run together. Mages being the strongest splat is part of Awakened theme, which is hubris and the misuse of power.

No real power equals no real theme.

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>>51363169
Honestly, I'd prefer if Mage were entirely rewritten to focus more heavily on the Gnostic themes. Surpassing this false prison reality instead of controlling it. Honestly, for seeing this world as a Lie, Changelings are closer to surpassing it than Mages. Mages are mired in it, since all they can do is manipulate it. Controlling spirits and entering the Shadow doesn't really seem to be surpassing the Lie. Just living in it.

Mage would be a better game line without the Gnosticism, and Gnosticism could lead to a way more interesting game line than Mage.

>>51362630
>All possible but why not use Life magic and enhance your night vision or alternatively give yourself owl eyes and not have to worry about the flashlight?

All those effects are not necessarily easy, and a mage, particularly one with a low or middling Gnosis, can only have so many active spells at once.

Simply, sometimes a basic flashlight is easier and more versatile than using magic, no less shape-changing, due to low light.

In fact, the resort to serious magic when faced with a minor problem solved with a ubiquitous flashlight is precisely the type of Hubris mages should avoid.

Lastly, the mage was hardly defenseless or useless with just her trusty flashlight.

Honestly, while I roll my eyes at the 'MAGE SUPREMACY' shit, I am downright disgusted by the crossover players. Keep the lines separate or, if not, change the other lines' monsters for whatever the star of the show is.

>>51362281
What if you feed by helping Werewolves hunt or Mages fulfill their Obsessions? You could also go full Batman.

>>51363253

Isn't that just a less edgy Kult, then?

>>51363225
>the various gamelines aren't even intended to be fully compatible and run together

Except all the rest are and do. It's Mag that refuses to not be a special snowflake with an everything-proof-shield

>>51363278

Its like if D&D quadratic wizard shit was flat out written to Be The Best Forever. Its very obnoxious. A lot of people feel the same way about Solar Exalted and their proponents as well.

>>51363253
>Surpassing this false prison reality instead of controlling it
Which they do by seeking Supernal Verges, hunting down Artifacts, and researching Ascension.

That's like, a key theme of the game, and the textbook "final goal" for every Mage. Few other splats have an in-built end goal that your characters will actually want like Mage does.

>>51363306
There's a difference between making gamelines compatible in case people want a crossover thereby appealing to every part of the fanbase, and active promoting it.

Crossovers are retarded.

>>51362679
I pulled those statistics out of different books years ago and saved them in a notepad document for quick reference.

>>51363306

>the various gamelines aren't even intended to be fully compatible and run together

This is what it boils down to, really.

>>51363306

Equality among powers isn't exactly a realistic scenario. It doesn't exist in real life no matter how hard society tries and doesn't have any sense of realism at all. It's a very PC/SJW thing to demand splat balance. It's annoying.

>>51363311
Archmages don't surpass the material world, either. They just become demiurges of their own right, playing with the fundamental building blocks of reality. They don't surpass it, either. The concept of Hubris is weakened if Mages are "right" and the world is a Lie. The concept of Gnosticism is weakened when the end goal of all mages is to become Demiurges in their own right; blind to their bondage to the material world even when they no longer dwell within it.

Mage, as it currently exists, is in direct opposition to the Gnostic Wisdom theme, and Gnostic Wisdom is in direct opposition to Mage's Hubris theme.

They're better off being divorced from each other.

So, how can group of Hunters be dangerous to local Consilium?

>>51363382
You clearly don't get understand the gist of the Mage cosmology. Be gone you vile creature of ignorance!

>>51363432
Hunters? A threat? Don't be fucking ridiculous. They can't even attack Mages without having their minds go all white. They need to be Sleepwalkers to do anything at all.

>>51363432
If they're Sleepers, then only by accident; they won't be able to ever identify Mages.

If they're Sleepwalkers, then by bringing crowds of normies with them wherever mages are wanting to do shit.

>>51363382
Ascended ones do surpass material world. Archmastery is just last barrier to mages, last temptation.

>>51363452
>Passive Aggressive Hunters that bring Mortals wherever they go to force the supernaturals have to work around them
What Compact would this be?

>>51363364

>It's a very PC/SJW thing to demand splat balance

So. Fucking. True. WoD is fucking full of social justice warriors getting angry at privileged white mages.

>>51363494
SPLAT BALANCE IS MAGE GENOCIDE

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>>51363494
Would that make DND 4e the most sjw rpg of all?

>>51363447
>>51363452
Then how did they managed to do that in 1e? Or they never did?

>>51363610
They kill Sleeper witches/sorcerers. Not true wizards.

>>51363610
Hunter was never really meant to go up against the actual forms of other splats. Just simplified versions using the Dread Powers rules. And yeah, mortal witches/hedge mages rather than actual Mages.

Though I recall VALKYRIE having an object that made mages leak Mana.

>>51363521
Mage should learn from Beast. Keep your super special snowflake bullshit to the Astral where it belongs.

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>>51363074
Home of the largest rock-hewn church in the world. It's over 800 years old.

They've also had their own writing system for like 2500 years and there is apparently a bunch of ancient writings floating around that have never been translated to English.

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>>51363494
ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPERNAL PRIVILEGE

>>51363254
Unsafely relinquish spell control. High wisdom is for nerds.

>>51363342
>Crossovers are retarded.
>>51363364

Nevertheless, OPP has stated it will release the Crossover Chronicles.

It will end op being a tome that expands role-playing possibilities in the CofD and answer questions nagging at fans for years, or will be a clusterfuck of legendary proportions that actually aggravates the crossover problems and/or fails to address the most pertinent issues.

I believe a lot will depend on who OPP chooses as the developer.

I cannot really say I'm even cautiously optimistic.


>>51363432
>how can group of Hunters be dangerous to local Consilium?

Unless those Hunters suddenly Awaken and are backed major military forces, the Consilium is in no real danger. If the Hunters can even understand and remember supernal magic, at best, they might be able to harass a young and inexperienced mage.or two All that will accomplish is that far more experienced and powerful mages will either mind wipe them, if they're lucky, or more likely, demonstrate the limits of human pain and suffering as an object lesson that it's a very bad idea to screw with the Wise.

>>51363610
>>51363658
Well, then I'll have to make my own Hunters, with Paradox slinging and hookers.

>>51361053
that is The Principle?

how is it related to the realms supernal?

>>51363225
I know, but I'd like to be able to introduce a Cabal of Mages screwing up a Pack's territory and actually have the Pack stand a chance without the Mages acting like complete idiots.

>>51363725
>Not using Banishers Paradox merits to aid Hunters

>>51363666

Aliens did it. It's more plausible.

>>51363676
>ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPERNAL PRIVILEGE

"Privilege" is one of the themes of Mage. The Awakened are metaphor for 1%.

Mages don't acknowledge their privilege, the revel in it. Heck, the Seers quite literally weaponize it.

>>51363785

If you need to give hunters actual mage merits from Banishers, it pretty much proves the point that hunters don't stand a chance against the Awakened, no less an entire Consilium.

>>51363778
So far, it seems to be 'The One Above All' of the CofD. Yes, even above the realms supernal, and I say this as a mage supremacist. Whether it'll stay that way or ever be expanded on is up in the air.

>>51363658
>Hunter
>fighting mortal witches/hedge mages rather than actual Mages.

Indeed.

Comparing petty thaumaturges and fallen witches to the Wise is akin to comparing monkeys and baboons to gods.

>>51363830
You don't exactly have a full antagonist's scope if you don't consider the tools the actual line's (non-hunter) antagonists use.
The powers and endowments in hunter are made to take down an entirely different antagonist (The mage-esque rules in the Hunter supplements). They leave a bit to be desired for hunting MtAw mages.

>>51363760
>Hunters, with Paradox slinging and hookers.

Isn't one of the alternative Mind 2 Attainments, Influence Hookers?

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>>51363778
The Principle is the source of the Supernal in Mage.

The Principle is the being/place/hivemind/.....thing that may or may not be sentient and is the source/master of the Qasmallim in Promethean.

The Principle appears to be a replacement for/newer version of/more efficient version of the God Machine.

All of these things may or may not be true, and the various Principles may or may not be the same thing, or facets of some greater whole.

Personally I believe that The Principle, The God Machine and the Dark Mother are siblings, who play the world like their own tabletop RPG. And pic related is how I picture them.

>>51363872

For Hunters to even *remember* any supernal effects, they need to be a Sleepwalker or have actual supernatural merits. At that point, the Hunters are no longer plucky normal humans.

Unlike Lunacy for werewolves where Willpower may overcome, the Quiescence is absolute and punishing.

Knowing about supernal magic is also hardly a panacea. One of the advantages mages have is that they're all so different in skills and abilities, and when part of a cabal, the default social structure for mages, there's rarely an aspect of reality they cannot control.

What hope do mortal have trying to surprise an Acanthus or using firearms, melee weapons or even explosive against an Obrimos or Moros?

>>51363983
Remember that Hunters don't hunt other gamelines. They hunt creatures created with the Dark Powers system, who could be similar to other gamelines.

>>51363978

My own weird headcanon is that the Principle and the Empyrean are the same thing: the source of human souls, which has some sort of screwy interactions with Fate (and boy howdy is rectifying Mage, Changeling, and Mummy Fate fun) and the Supernal.

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>>51363978
The God-Machine is a pansy. He got kicked out from the Supernal Realms by the Exarchs and is STILL trying to rebuild himself. All butthurt and crying to himself.

>It was just a joke bro

>>51363778
The Principle is the disembodied soul of the God-Machine. The original entity (which may have a few more components scattered about) sorted Abyssal and Supernal symbols to help create the world as we know it. It's existence straddled the Phenomenal and Supernal Realms. When the Silver Ladder broke it broke this entity which caused the Abyss (which is just a place where unused symbols are kept) to start leaking everywhere. because no one was working to keep them properly separate or safely integrate Abyssal symbols into the universe by making them Supernal symbols.

It may or may not be God, but it probably wasn't. I like to think if (stressing if here) there is an Almighty God in the CofD it's an entity made from every single symbol, Abyssal and Supernal.

Obviously this is all head canon.

Speaking of Hunters and Mages

https://youtu.be/02OfZVyd6bE

>>51364151
The One True God transcends all symbols. Language is a ruddy, inferior version simply Understanding.

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>>51363797
Whatever helps you sleep at night. I'll just leave this image of an Ethiopian castle while I'm here.

>>51364018
>Remember that Hunters don't hunt other gamelines.

That was precisely my point. The prior Anon was suggesting it was actually realistic for regular Hunters to hunt Awakened mages. More oddly, he was allowing them supernal merits available to Banishers.

>>51364214
Well, if you wanted to go full Christian God, John 1:1 offers an interesting take on the idea.

>In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

This gets interesting because Jesus was the Word made flesh.

>>51364343
Most of the merits aren't supernal, and the ones that are, are easily used as any sort of Endowment to expand the toolbox if you must have Hunters interacting with the full splat.

>>51364343
Well, it would be good for Mages to have semi-normal humans as enemies from time to time.

>>51364392
>the word was God (word = God)
>the word was with God (God was with God, or God squared)
>In the beginning there was the Word (God squared is now the word, word = god Squared)
>the word was with God (God squared was with God squared, or God to the 4th)
>etc. ad infinitum

And that's how the Big Bang Happened

>>51364457
>And that's how the Big Bang Happened

Funny little tidbit: Archmages might have caused the Big Bang in oWoD according to Masters of the Art. Unlimited Powah.

The Judeo-Christian God also doesn't exist in CofD. It's one of the reasons why I prefer it as a setting.

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Do mages come off as gnostics to anyone else?

Like, a belief in a perfect spiritual supernal realm and the flawed material world that is a shadow of it.

>>51364778
They're more like the academics in a world where all the other splat failed to graduate high school

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>>51364659
>It's one of the reasons why I prefer it as a setting.

>>51364778
Except, according to Dave, the Supernal Realms aren't an actual place. So fuck knows where they go when they ascend.

Mage is failed and self-contradicting Gnosticism.

>>51364778
It is a gnostic horror setting, so yes.

>>51364837
>So fuck knows where they go when they ascend

They become living symbols in the Supernal Realms. You didn't do your homework, did you?

>>51364837
The Supernal Realms are part of the world, the source code, while the Phenominal or Fallen world is the user side. Not sure where the Abyss fits into this though.

What is the best Clan and Discpline combis if I wanted to emulate Dracula or Alucard from Castlevania? VtM and VtR count.

>>51364858
>in the Supernal Realms

The Supernal Reals aren't a place

>>51364416
>it would be good for Mages to have semi-normal humans as enemies from time to time.

Mages are semi-normal humans. That's the point, and other mages are some of the pc's primary antagonists, everything from Scelesti and Banishers to Seers, the Mad, reapers, liches, etc.

>>51364882
>The Supernal Realms aren't a place
You're right. They aren't a place. It's the source of reality. You become an eternal part of that code when you ascend.

>>51364882

You didn't read Imperial Mysteries, did you?

What kind of Changeling the lost shenanigans does /CofD/ get in to

>>51364879
>>51364907
So it's still failed Gnosticism. They become a part of the bars rather than being trapped in the prison.

Gnosticism is about leaving this failed prison of a universe behind entirely. Ascending beyond it.

Mages are all about engaging with it and becoming it.

>>51364794
>They're more like the academics in a world where all the other splat failed to graduate high school

So, are you saying my Adamantine Arrow mage has a Ph.D. is supernatural asskicking, and the other splats are still riding the CofD short bus?

>>51364937
Dave retconned it. The Supernal Realms are not a place. You cannot go there. It's why he thinks Mage Arcadia = Changeling Arcadia is dumb. Not because they're two different game lines or something logical, no, but because Mage Arcadia is not a place.

>>51364858
Are they conscious/self-aware?

>>51364944
I'm pretty sure they leave it all behind at the next step after being an archmage.

>>51364944
They actually are ascending beyond it. The Exarchs are the living symbols of human oppression and tyranny. They no longer have to suffer human existence because they ARE the living symbols of human suffering.

>>51364966
And that's why fuck the 2ed.

>>51364974
Unless they fuck up, and make themselves un-aware, I'd say so.

>>51364966

He retconned it by writing Imperial Mysteries, you misinformed turd nugget. You don't go to the Supernal Realms you become a part of it. The Supernal Realms is the source code of all-creation. When you ascend you become an eternal part of that. Jesus Christ the people in this thread.

>>51364944
The supernal realms are beyond the universe

>>51365069

The Supernal Realms overlaps with the universe. It isn't above it. it's the data for reality.

>>51365001
>They actually are ascending beyond it.
>>51365050
>You don't go to the Supernal Realms you become a part of it. The Supernal Realms is the source code of all-creation.
>>51365069
>The supernal realms are beyond the universe

Man even the fans can't keep it straight.

>>51365086
basic gnosticism, faggot. The material universe we live in is a shitty echo of the true, transcendent reality that exists beyond our shitty echo universe.

So
how does the God-Machine relate to the supernal realms?

>>51365086

A lot of people here fail to realize that the Supernal Realms isn't a physical place. You have to become a symbol to enter it. Only Archmages and Ascended Beings have the luxury of that.

>>51365133

The God-Machine was a former Supernal deity that got kicked out by the Exarchs when they stormed the place. Now the Exarchs rule the World of Darkness and the God-Machine is trying to rebuild itself. It's pretty simple, really.

>>51365103
Yes.

And the true, transcendent reality is not part of "all creation."

Because creation was created by the demiurge.

So if the Supernal Realms are the source code for creation, they are part of the Demiurge's flawed prison for humanity.

So if Mages ascend to the supernal realms, then they are part of the prison, not ascended beyond it.

>>51365133
The God-Machine is a plot device with no set-in-stone goals or domain. In fact, I prefer the plot hook suggested in the G-M book that the G-M can't affect the supernatural at all, which is why it prefers to work with humans. The G-M is literally just a plot hook that does whatever your ST wants it to do.

>>51365011
Everyone shut the fuck up about mage and find something else to bitch over ! This circle jerk has been going on for a week now

>>51365155
Maybe.
Or it's a Cold War super-weapon.

Stop stating possibilities as facts.

>>51365165

>The God-Machine is a plot device
The Exarchs shit all over him when they kicked him off their rightful thrones. He's a broken god.

>>51365171
The problem isn't that it's a Mage circlejerk. The problem is people shitting on Mage, by pretending to be Mage fans who deliberately misinterpret the setting.
These Supremacy shitposters are all about how no other splat is worthy of playing, yada yada yada.

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>>51365192
You're welcome to your head-canon, but it is not CofD-canon.

>>51365173

It's a strongly held theory in Imperial Mysteries. Definitely not a fact, but a very good assumption to make. I suggest you go read the book. It has a lot of good fluff.

>>51365171
Dude, I really like the 1ed more, for a number of reasons, and that has nothing to do with mage supremacy.