/CofD/ &/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

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>>51298522
Splats at the same tier are roughly the same

Top Teir
Prep Mage
Loud Demon
Fresh Mummy

Mid Tier
Sin eater
Werewolf
Demon
Promenthian
Prep Hunter
Mage
Mummy

Street Tier
Vampire
Changeling
Beast
Surprised Mage
Hunter

Changelings have lots of trickery but lack raw power

Vampires are as resilient as cockroaches, and social monsters. In a straight up fight, that don't have all the raw power, but they're no weakling. They sit at the top of the Street tier as the benchmark for other powers

Beast Actually start out really strong but get overshadowed as the other splats get their higher powers. still pretty good

Mages. if they've got their shit together are forces to be reckoned with. but if they don't know what they're up against or are out right surprised, they can't bring their full weight. which is why they concentrate on investigation. They're batman. and Archmage are just prep mages so I'm not going to make another category for them

Hunters are normal people who's eyes are open. weak and fragile. But if they know what they're doing and can investigate, they can take out a target. Not without sacrifice but hey more humans are born everyday. They're literally Batman

Demons have a lot of the tricks that Mages have, but more stream lined, so even surprised they can do their thing. and going Loud is the metaphysical Nuclear option

Promes Wolves and Eaters all kind of share the same space, as combat comparable with one or two tricks. but what stops them from over taking one other is ironically the same reason Vampires are the benchmark. Socially they all have problems. Prome have disquiet and Wolves have Primal Rage. Sineaters don't have any specific disadvantage, but they don't get any social powers at all. Plus Sin Eaters can't 'just' be killed

Mummy have a weird inverse power scale to them. When they wake up they're unthinking murder machines, but as they get control of themselves, they lose that huge power boost and sit at the same level as mages

>>51298522

>Fixed it for you

God Tier
Archmage

Top Tier
Prep Mage
Loud Demon
Fresh Mummy

Middle Tier
Mage
Sin-Eater
Werewolf
Mummy
Promethean
Demon
Prep Hunter

Street Tier
Changeling
Vampire
Surprised mage
Hunter

>>51298558
THICK
LUPINE
COCK

>>51298653

Yeah. There's nothing to suggest a mage can't dominate Mid Tier due to how versatile they can be even when unprepared. Surprised mages are entirely different.

>>51298636
>Archmage are just prep mages so I'm not going to make another category for them
>>51298653
>magefag

>>51298684
SUCH
FAGNESS
ANON

God tier
Mages

Weak fags tier
All the others

>>51298735
>God tier
>Mages
>Weak fags tier
>All the others

Double God Tier
Timori

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Given their accomplishments, how strong is VTMB's protagonist?

>>51298980
Implication is that its' 8th Generation, but that game doesn't mesh to any TT material in anyway like that, so...

>>51298479
Yes. But not compared to vampires.

Two combat specialised characters of equal XP, the vampire will have an advantage except at the EXTREME start. Vampires pull ahead quickly, and stay ahead for the rest of the game.

Werewolves compensate by being packs.

>>51298522
>Vampires are as resilient as cockroaches, and social monsters. In a straight up fight, that don't have all the raw power, but they're no weakling.

They out-power werewolves.
They can get just as much strength, they can apply their +damage ability through weapons, frenzy grants a lot more offensive benefits than shape-shifting does, and they can blood buff.

Their pure, mundane, power peaks highest of anything we've seen this far in CofD. Mages only win because they have more hax and flexibility.

>>51298980

not strong enough to beat a mage

>>51298980
Accomplishments vary.

>>51299037

>Werewolves compensate by being packs.

You are retarded

>They out-power werewolves

Methuselahs maybe

>Their pure, mundane, power peaks highest of anything we've seen this far in CofD. Mages only win because they have more hax and flexibility.

If you honestly believe vampires are comparable to High Tier splats, you are beyond hope.

>>51299037
>vampires
>outright stronger than werewolves
I don't believe it.

>>51299037

Are you perhaps the same guy on the OPP forums that kept masturbating/exaggerating over the Celerity Discipline? Get the fuck out.

Now make a Tier list based on sex appeal.

>>51299126
>>51299111

I see I need to actually finish my comparison chart.

But compare Vigor to Strength and Rage gifts. Vigor is the better combat ability in all ways.

>>51299151
Celerity is decent. It boosts Defence, which is something werewolves lack completely. Unless, of course, you can dig up a straight "add Cunning to Defence"-power.

How do I fuck a cute vampire without her eating me?

>>51298980
Fucking stronk

>>51299194
Stake her, rip out her teeth for bragging rights then leave her out for the sun rise.

>>51299171

Read the above lists, Anon. Your precious little princes of the night are only Street Tier. Vampires will always be inferior little turds among gods and mages.

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>>51299159

Unchained > all

>>51299208
>Stake her
With your penis

>>51299171
Vampires are shit

SHIIIIIIIIIIIIT

>>51299214
>Read the above lists, Anon. Your precious little princes of the night are only Street Tier. Vampires will always be inferior little turds among gods and mages.

Agreed. Vampires ain't got shit on the powerful creatures. But in a straight fight, Vampires are powerful... But they can't do anything else.

But my real argument is that Werewolves are weak.
Stronger than 1e. But so are mortals.

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>>51299194
Eat her first.

>>51299194
Be a 16 year old Beast named Ben.

>>51299242

>But in a straight fight, Vampires are powerful
No they are not. It's hilarious you think so. The only thing scary about them is Dominate and Celerity. And those can be duplicated and done better by mages. Vampires are among the weakest in white-room fights.


>Werewolves are weak
You just lost all credibility. You lost this. Get the fuck out now.

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What is he?

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>>51298980
Velvet velour is my crush

>>51299312
>You just lost all credibility. You lost this. Get the fuck out now.

No. How much +damage can a Werewolf get? Including equipment?

>>51299333

>How much +damage can a Werewolf get?

You have lost another 50 credibility points.

>>51299316
A nephandi

>>51299384
Answer me.

How much +Damage, +Defence, and +Strength can werewolves get?

>>51299413

I'm just going to take another 50 points off your credibility

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>Changelings are weak
Aw man... :(

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>>51298653
>not even differentiating between antediluvians and neonates

>>51299312

>duplicated and done better by mages
One of the reasons why I don't allow mages in crossovers

>>51299524

go back to /v/ kid, this is a chronicles of darkness thread...

>>51299524

Antediluvians? I think you mean high grade lawn chairs.

>>51299524
>Being so dumb you don't realize the list is obviously CofD not OWoD

>>51298980
Their strength is above average. The rate of growth however is extraordinary.

>>51299592
>>51299551

CofD sounds like utter shit.

>>51299632
>Cummies of Daddy

>>51299592

Is there a difference? Mages reign supreme in both. Clearly they are just two sides of the same coin.

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>>51299632
And you sound like a cancerous /v/ermin, now leave and go back to your shit hole. Vampires are not made for combat werewolves are plain and simple

>>51299524
Spotted the /v/ retard, bet you came because the WtA announcement

>>51299632

WoD and CoFD are both hit and miss, ideally you would just use the translation guides to mix elements and port them over to the CofD ruleset (WoD mechanics are like 20 years old and still fucking aids)

for example I vastly prefer Masquerade but it could do with lowering the focus on sucking elder cock and have more playable factions, and I like Apocalypse but some of the stuff from Forsaken is actually really interesting and I think they could be mixed together to great effect

>>51299680
>>51299677
I've actually never been to /v/. And I don't give a shit about Werewolf.

>>51299705
What ever helps you sleep at night

>>51299705

>I don't give a shit about Werewolf

>Every Masquerade player

>>51298636
I know they arn't really meant to be played but where would a incarnate beast sit in all this?

>>51298653
Sin Eaters are too low. They literally have a power that allows them to force others to commit suicide.

>>51299780

That isn't very impressive when other splats can do the same. Putting Sin-Eaters that high is being too generous in the first place.

>>51299704
What's better in CofD rules? WoD rules seem fine to me. And if you're not sucking elder cock, what are you doing? Deciding your own destiny from the very beginning? If I wanted that I'd play something else.

I know that the point of playing Promethean is becoming human, but when you do become human do you retain any of your old powers? If not, after becoming human can you become a different supernatural creature like maybe a mage?

>>51299780
How does that change anything?

>>51299794
Than play something faggot nobody is forcing you to play shit.

>>51299790
>>51299814
Name another splat that can do that as easy as a sin eater? What's the use of a demon going loud when a sin eater can literally tell it to kill itself?

>>51299780
All splats except werewolves can do that. Werewolves just kill you instead.

>>51299794
I like how 1's don't take away from your successes. Other than that I can't really say, I've only played owod once so I don't know the mechanical differences.

>>51299794

I'm not an expert on this but I've heard that a lot of people don't like the botch mechanic in WoD, and CofD has a much more streamlined combat system or something compared to WoD's clusterfuck of rolling 4-5 dice pools for a single attack.

>if you're not sucking elder cock, what are you doing?

Personal horror, which is what being a vampire should be about instead of fetch quests for the prince? You can still do politics, but it isn't centered around being railroaded by ST's Ventrue train operator.

>>51299476
>werewolves are weak little shits
Good to have confirmation thanks anon

>>51298636
>Beast They actually start out really strong but get overshadowed as the other splats get their higher powers. still pretty good
I disagree. Many Atavisms scale with Lair so I wouldn't say they become any weaker. They have good armor, reliable source of aggravated damage, lair traits can be very powerful too. Only weaker area is Defense, both boosting it and using against bullet-fast attacks.

Compare to werewolves who scale really poorly, young werewolf is literal killing machine, but they don't become much better. In case of beast vs werewolf, both built for fight, I would bet on beast.

High exp Vampire with Coil of the Wyrm scales really well with Blood Potency. Vampires have source of aggravated damage with Claws of the Unholy or Feeding the Crone, werewolves have just fire against vamps, which can be not only resisted with Resilence, but nearly ignored with Coil of the Ascendant.
Primal Urge helps high exp werewolf considerably less. Still, against well built Rahu it would be no slam dunk. To get on that level vampire needs shitloads of exp, while werewolf needs much fewer to get into optimal battle build.
Of course we are talking white room, werewolves would normally take advantage of the Shadow and ability to act during day.

Also prepared Hunter is no better than prepared anyone else.

>>51299037
>Vampires pull ahead very slowly
ftfy
>Werewolves compensate by using Shadow and not spending half the time in coffin
ftfy again

>>51299171
>Celerity is decent. It boosts Defence, which is something werewolves lack completely.
Werewolves lower opponent's Defense, so this only compensates for that.

>>51299242
>But my real argument is that Werewolves are weak.
Agreed, in 2e they got relatively low boost.

>>51299413
some +Damage and +Strength scale directly with appropriate Renown, while other like from Crimson Spasm are more random. They dont get more Defense, but see above.

>>51299877

A Mind mage can do it better than a Sin-Eater. Applying the Fate Arcanum only makes it even worse via Conditional Triggers.

>>51299877
Dominate Vampire
Mind Mage

Are you even trying?

>>51299936
You do know that Werewolf bites and claws do aggravated damage against Vampires?

>>51299811
Yes, once you get your fancy human soul you could awaken to the heights of mage supremacy or get kidnapped by a true fae and have the damn thing ripped out of you.

I laugh at all the people over-exaggerating Vampires and attempting to downplay Werewolves.

And yet they still have half a dozen more splats to downplay before they reach the superior species known as Mages which sit at the very top.

>>51299936
>Werewolves compensate by using Shadow and not spending half the time in coffin

Agreed. Werewolves win a LOT in trickiness, but they can't really do any attacks from the Shadow, so it doesn't help them in combat.

>Agreed, in 2e they got relatively low boost.
No. They got a huge one. 1e Werewolves were practically on par with Hunters.
It just didn't go far enough.

>Werewolves lower opponent's Defense, so this only compensates for that.
Which means that a Vampire facing a Gauru will still have higher defence than any Werewolf would.
Werewolf attacks werewolf: Tops at 5 Defence
Werewolf attacks vampire: Tops at 10 Defence
Before power stat 6+ shenanigans, of course.

>some +Damage and +Strength scale directly with appropriate Renown, while other like from Crimson Spasm are more random. They dont get more Defense, but see above.
Yes, but the +damage from Rage gifts only works in Gauru, and only with Brawl weapons, whereas a Vampire can use it all the time, and do it with things like battle axes.

Also, as soon as the Vampire hits Blood Potency 3, they get more stat boosts from Frenzy than shape shifting gives werewolves, and vampires ALSO have the expensive-but-powerful boost in Physical Intensity.

Last but not least, any Vampire can become a strong fighter. A werewolf has to be a Rahu.

>>51299965
>>51300006
You guys are literally autistic. Not all vampires are ventru and not all mages are mind specialized.

>>51300019
No I don't. Find some source from RAW.
Protip. You can't.

>>51300019
No. Bites do Lethal, and claws do Bashing. Almost everything does Bashing to vampires. The fact that the weres do Lethal at all is impressive.

>>51300070
But all Sin-Eaters specialise in the Marionette? (Phantasm is it that mind controls?)

>>51299908
More streamlined combat sounds cool, but botches are sweet.

>>51300093
Botches are still in, as Dramatic Failures.

Which you now choose to get for sweet, sweet Beats. (XP)

>>51299936

All splats except mages need very specific builds in order to be able to inflict aggravated damage, and then usually only in melee brawls.

All mages, regardless of Path or specializations, can inflict aggravated damage at range, often without any applied Defense, armor or Withstand, once they reach 4 dots in any Arcanum.

In order to beat a mage in combat, you need to completely surprise them AND put them down immediately. If you don't, you will be killed or seriously injured, or they will escape and counterattack at their leisure, which is a guarantee of your slow and painful demise.

If a mage PC is actually designed and built for physical combat, you're fucked.

>>51300105
>If a mage PC is actually designed and built for physical combat, you're fucked.
How would you specc this? I'm guessing Matter and Life are probably the most important stats?

>>51299936
>beast
it's not that they become weaker it's that they get out classed. and other splats find better tricks, or just come into their own. Where beast just starts darn good but don't improve as well as the other splats

>Also prepared Hunter is no better than prepared anyone else
yeah thats the point in putting hunters at two scales. Knowing about a vamp's Haven or getting some silver bullets gives them the edge to actually do something

>Werewolves lower opponent's Defense, so this only compensates for that
wut?

EVERYONE SHUT UP ABOUT POWER LEVELS, IT'S HUNTER 2E TIME

http://theonyxpath.com/corebook-outline-kick-off-hunter-the-vigil/

Was Cherion-freelancer-anon legit? We'll find out, I guess!

>>51300105

No one here is contesting Mage supremacy. Only an idiot would doubt their place as the most powerful splat in both WoD settings. Unlimited potential power is one of their key themes. You can't go against that.

On the subject of Werewolves vs Mages. Werewolves will win the majority of white-room duels. 2e is just witness to this.

>>51300070
>I was proven wrong everyone is autistic
sad.

>>51300198
What's the point of being a Hunter? They will never be as cool and poweful as Mages

>>51299490
I half expected her to cut and eat the plate.

>>51300198
>>51300252

Hunters are the exact opposite of Mages. They are flat-out the weakest splat.

>>51300278
Again, what's the point?

>>51300288

>Mage Supremacy

>>51300288
Being a plain vanilla human and trying to understand and fight creatures that are far superior than you is pretty tense.

>>51300230
>On the subject of Werewolves vs Mages. Werewolves will win the majority of white-room duels. 2e is just witness to this.

Yeah. The minority that the Mage will win is those cases of a Mage who have decided to do stuff like the Werewolves do, and since they do it better, they win.

>>51299794
four rolls for one attack verse one roll. not to mention CoD is written by folks with technical writing skills so rules are clarified

GET OUT MAGEFAGS

>Ghost centered Conspiracy

Huh. I suppose that was the one place where Hunter was lacking. I wonder who got the cut from the core Conspiracies. VASCU, this new one, that leaves five Conspiracies left. Anyone want to take a guess as to what those are?

>Power levels

Am I a faggot/autist/elitist/whatever for caring more about roleplaying an interesting character and exploring the setting?

Sympathetic casting seems like such an important part of the game, Shadow Names and Occultation both existing because of it. If you ever make a Mage without 2 dots in Space are you playing the game wrong?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFgeustBpFk

>>51300364
I think Cheiron got cut. They are too.. Villain-y.

I hope they got a nice fit in Deviant.

>>51300376
Nah. I do like that as well. I just enjoy the arguing.

>>51300376

yes, absolutely

know that everything you do as a vampire is completely irrelevant because you can never reach your true potential, like a mage

>>51300404
The Ordo Dracul would like to have a word with you.

>>51300316

That's not what I meant. By majority I mean Mages who aren't Masters. Or Mages that don't know how Werewolves work. A clever Mage (that isn't a Master) that knows what they're up against will curbstomp a Werewolf 1v1 in a white-room setting. A Master is going to just one shot a Werewolf no matter what. Unmaking spells are just that ridiculous if you abuse them with Praxis and Rotes.

Now that I realize this. I change my opinion. Adept-Master Mages are going to win the vast majority of white-room duels with Werewolves.

>>51300422
Oh. Yeah. Masters or close-combat specialists work. Masters will curbstomp werewolves.
You don't even have to abuse the system, just use it.

>>51300422
>Adept-Master Mages are going to win the vast majority of white-room duels with Werewolves

Of course. How are dogs going to stand up against the worst of humanity? They're just filthy mutts

>Mage Supremacy

>>51300392

Cherion probably aren't going to be in Deviant if they're cut from Hunter. I don't think they got cut, though, if only because a Hunter faction being too villainy doesn't seem like it's a problem, and they have a large fanbase. Then again, who knows.

My guess is that Ascending Ones or maybe Aegis Kai Doru got the cut. I can't see Malleus Malificarum and Task Force: VALKYRIE not returning for 2e core, and those are the only ones that I'd consider "safe".

>>51300469
Lucifuge might be cut, by reason of being too monster-y.

MAGES RULE

ALL OTHERS DROLL

>>51300523

Lucifuge are also a pretty popular choice too, however. Of course, watch us all be wrong and VALKYRIE gets cut for some reason.

>>51300376
this so much

>>51300575
Yeah, the Lucifuge are really cool. But... They don't exactly fit in.

Did Demon ever come out in print?

Or is it PDF only?

>>51300641
It's available in print via Print-on-Demand. Or having kickstarted it.

Fifth thread of mages sucking eachothers dicks. You guys will never get laid. Fuck off.

>>51300641

If you're talking about Descent, it's Print on Demand on Drive Thru RPG, unless you got in on the Kickstarter. Indie Press Revolution might have extra KS printing copies for sale, but don't quote me on that.

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>>51300711
>mad af vampfag

Can we please give the Mage Supremacy meme a rest? I'm not mad, I'm just bored with it.

>>51300917

Would you rather have Aspel?

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>>51300711
>>51300917
Genius supremacy!

>>51300950

You're just going to bring the mage supremacists back out.

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>>51300985
Genius!

>>51300937

The poster who isn't here anymore, or at least laying low for a surprisingly long amount of time? It's not like we have to have one or the other.

>>51301003
Samus is more of a Deviant, actually.

>>51300950
>>51301003
How the fuck is this mad science?

>>51300950
>>51301003

I point and laugh at this inferior thing you call Genius.

>Mage Supremacy

>>51300917
Maybe if White Wolf ever puts out a new book.

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>>51301042
>Ray-guns, fishbowls and skin-tight spacesuits, fucking John Carter of Mars

You sir are a man of low birth and are not my nigger.
>>51301043
>T I M E T R A V E L
>>51301037
A what now?

>>51301080
Genius is nothing more than a dream. It is fan made and will never have a place in the CofD.

>>51301080

>Ray-guns, fishbowls and skin-tight spacesuits, fucking John Carter of Mars

mage already did this 20 years ago with Sons of Ether

>>51301136
Yeah even the best fan made supplements fall short of even Beast.

>>51301149
I also love Sons of Ether, but Mage shitposting is taken.
>>51301155
>>51301136
Fagget

>>51300917
I could post animu werewolves but I need to gather some pics first.

Stop feeding the fucking magefags

I honestly don't know how can people play something that is not Mage

>>51301200
Propose an alternative conversation then. How about, things that are better then Mages?

Hint: The answer is nothing.

>>51301211
An Archmage

>>51301235
That's a type of Mage genius.

>>51301080

Deviant is the new CofD splat. Like Beast, it's a catch all splat, but focused on freaks of nature/body horror/dark superhero stuff, whereas Beast's thing was mythological monsters.

>>51301136
Hey, Princess and Leviathan got their second editions. Why can't Genius have one?

>>51301248
2 mages

>>51301260
More fansplats. They don't exist. Stop believing in them.

>tfw Brookshaw turned you into a socialist

I feel like a goddamn political banisher

>>51301310
wat

>>51301296
What is exactly wrong with fansplats?

>>51298558
Is she taking the knot?

>>51301448
I don't see how she has a choice. Unless she's a mage.

>>51301080
>FFFFF ARGH FUCK MY FUCKING FOOT

>>51301621
Simple, she's another werewolf and way more powerful than her friend there. She doesn't take the knot till he goes down on her to satisfaction. And if any accidental scraping happens, claws come out.

>>51301621
Why are you so certain the wolf isn't a Thrysus?

>>51301656
>having werewolf on werewolf sex
>having werewolf on werewolf sex while being female
This is such a bad idea. Enjoy your spirit baby.

>>51301448
The wolf is a female you fuck, a she-wolf like that Shakira song

>>51301685

Even men can get pregnant as of 2e using Luna's Embrace

>Luna and her twisted mind

>>51301804
Yes. We now have mpreg thanks to Werewolves. Perhaps our superior Archmage overlords can erase the very concept.

Something that catches me about what I've read of Vampire and Changeling (excuse me if I'm uninformed, trying to make sense of how to play these games as a PnP virgin), but what do they want to achieve?
It seems like Mages, Demons and Werewolves (not sure about the other games) have more defined goals but Vampires seem to just need to drink blood, which seems possible without disrupting the human population, and don't derive pleasure from anything else anymore. And Changelings just seem to want to stay away from True Fae and shit, which it would seem would be just remaining inconspicuous (Changeling stuff is really hard for me to wrap my head around, so many splats and concepts). Like what would motivate players to act in these games apart from survival?

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>>51300404

>>51301685
Not a thing anymore as of 2e.

>>51301801
So she's in a closet?

>>51301930
Vampire is a game about taking and maintaining power. You can see it in the large number of mind-effecting powers (including the Blood Bond and Ghouling) Vampires have, the way they try to fight when they first meet due to the Beast, and their competition over scarce resources. The base game of vampire is doing politics so that you can get more power, influence, and blood.

It's also a game about maintaining your humanity despite being a monster, as seen through the Anchors system.

Changeling is also politically motivated due to the Court system, but to a lesser extent, and has less guidance about what a game should be. This makes it harder to wrap your head around it.

>>51301930
Normal human motivations only you're a freak.

>>51301957

Are you really comparing blood magic to true magick?

>>51301930
For vampire, you use your powers, cunning and eternal unlife to accumulate power via politics, while trying to retain your Humanity.

For changeling, it's about building a new life since your old one is gone, while trying to figure who you can trust. It is more suited to slice of life style plots, at least until the Huntsmen come along. Then it can descend into paranoid suspense and people showing their true colors as the threat of being taken back to Arcadia rears its ugly head.

>>51301995
Was that what the song was about? I have no idea I was just looking at her hips

>>51301957
>>51302012

He rally is, I'm keking forever now

>>51301804
>>51301850

Can someone explain to me how this even works?

>>51299572
>But this is different! For, you see... it has a cup holder!

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Gundam Iron Blooded Orphans feelso Werewolf the Forsaken to me.

MC is Irraka
His friend and leader of their pack is Cahalith
Their advisor and Tactician is Ithaeur
Their second pest pilot is Rahu.

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>>51298558
That wouldnt be a Thyrsus Mage and her Werewolf friend enjoying being au naturel

>>51302036
>>51302007
>>51301999
Alright I think I'm getting an idea of what to do now, Changeling is like just doing whatever I want and Vampire is pursuit of power. But goddamn it makes me confused, specifically the way the fluff in Vampire goes on about how blood is the only thing Kindred enjoy anymore, e.g. food tastes like ash. Like once they've acquired power there's not much they'd want to do with it

>>51302131
Have you had power? Its really a high in its own right. Who knows how much they can enjoy it, but grasping desperately for power to hold on to your humanity fits the themes well.

>>51302131
I don't know what book you're reading but thats dumb and I'd ignore it.

>>51302131
Vampires enjoy things other than blood. Music, theatre, human company, power, fine suits, whatever. It's just they'll never enjoy it as much as blood. It's a drug addiction metaphor.

>>51302131
The emotional deadness of vampires has been dropped as of 2ED. There are examples in the book of vampires falling in love, such as in the Touchstones section, IIRC.

Changelings has politics too in the form of Court intrigue. Exploring the Hedge and the Dreamscape is always an option, as is trying to join an Entitlement.

>>51302131
We should just do vampires a favor and burn them free of their pathetic half-life of an existence.

>>51302074
Why would you want to know how a man gets pregnant? It was a stupid addition to 2e and should be ignored. It also doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

>>51302074
How it works is that somebody successfully sneaked their magical realm into the book.

>>51302074
A Facet that lets you switch sexes.

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Is NWoD mages any good?

>>51302305

>Here it comes

>>51302305
Power-wise pretty much still Mage supremacy from what I hear [I don't play nMage]

Fluffwise eeeeeeeeeeeeeh, I don't like it. oMage is much better fluff.

>>51302325
I think nMage has much better fluff.

>>51302305
>>51302325
>>51302340
CofD/2nd Ed Mage has far more cohesive writing than anything OWoD ever put out.

>>51302305

Mages are the best supernaturals and you should feel bad if you think otherwise.

>>51302340
>>51302362
Its okay, you're allowed to have shit taste here.

>>51302401
Your opinion matters?

>>51302401
>Defending M20
Disgusting Phil Lover

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>>51302412
I believe it does, therefore it does.

>>51302401
I know, that's why I'm not getting on your case for preferring oMage.

>>51302401
Just because the writing is better doesn't mean I prefer it over OWoD. Phil Brucato is just awful tho.

>>51302429
I believe it doesn't, therefore it doesn't.

>>51302429
You think that was a clever comment, punk? ...Because it was

>>51302429
>>51302446

GUYS GUYS! We're all Mages here. Stop fighting over your silly Paradigms.

>>51302452
No, it wasn't. Consensual reality is retarded.

>>51302491
Its actually a brilliant concept and one of my favorite parts of oMage. Replacing it with boring "I can't believe its not gnosticism" was a mistake.

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>>51302305
IT'S THE FUCKING BEST

FUCK YEAH

MAGES

>>51302481
I believe you'll stop fighting over Paradigms.

>>51302305
Mage is a good game. I like Werewolf and Vampire more though.

>>51302325
Consensual Reality a shit.

>>51302516
>>51302481

But if we aren't fighting over Paradigm what are we even fighting for?

This is what happens when Mage supremacists defeat their inferiors. They start picking on each other instead. Classic hubris.

>>51302503
It's a retarded concept, both in the game and in real world philosophies. I'm glad it's gone.

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>>51302532
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1xAh_W9G-A

nMage lore in a nutshell.

>ATLAAAAAAAAAAAANTIS!

>>51302503
If Conceptual Reality was a thing the world would work nothing like it does now because even ignoring that superstitious Chinese, Indian, and South American should be defining reality, the common man thinks science and physics works like it does in the movies.

>>51302543
Its a shame its gone. If it wasn't, then you convincing people your opinion wasn't shit might make it actually stop being shit.

>>51302516
No, we won't. Believing hard enough and wishing hard enough won't change anything. As the saying goes, wish in one hand, shit in the other, and see which one fills up first.

>>51302574
You give too much credit to the collective unconscious of humanity actually agreeing on things.

>>51302576
Much like Vampires, Werewolves, and the Triat, it doesn't matter how much you disbelieve you're opinion would still be shit no matter what.

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What's the deal with Wraith?

>>51302593
He also didn't read the books that explain the Consensus is localized, evidently.

>>51302593
No, the Ascension does. The world should run on the logic of a hodgepodge mix of superstition, religion, action movie physics, and misinterpreted science by the masses.

>>51302538

The only worthy opponents for Mages are other Mages. This is how it was always meant to be.

>>51302624
So, it should be the World of Darkness then?

>>51302616
That's because it's a stupid argument because if that were the case than it would be nearly impossible to supplant local consensual realities if the locals refused to believe in what outsiders were telling them.

>>51302611
It's about being a fag because you're not a Mage or you died and aren't a Mage anymore

>>51302649
Just like in real life.

>>51302629
No one has ever believed in eco-terrorist wolfmen and those are still running around.

>>51302340
>>51302543
>>51302576
>>51302588
>>51302593
>>51302594
>>51302616
>>51302624
>>51302629
>>51302649
>>51302675
>>51302680


>Magefags attacking other Magefags when they have no other splat to attack. The Mage Supremacists are destroying themselves and shall soon be free from their faggery.

>>51302680
Thats because werewolves are actually big fluffy Mages.

>>51302675
Except in real life the Native Americans would have never died off because their healers would have been as effective as modern medicine.

>>51302697
The real supremacy is when we can't even eliminate ourselves.

>>51302712
They were out numbered and murdered in large swaths. Not much a belief in crappy folk healing can do about that when said beliefs focus them on trained people like medicine men.

Consensual reality doesn't make a lot of sense to me. How does it apply to the world at large? Do all the gods exist and not exist (because atheists)? Does the media influence reality more than education? Does magic have any proper lore if mages all have their own versions of it? And this is just the issues from off the top of my head.

Are these questions answered in the books at all? Or do they say "it just works"?

>>51302697
the nwod deserves it because they have better mechanics and should fucking know better

the owod have broken consensual reality and use solipsism ideology to falsely justify being entitled lazyfags

>>51302697
Don't worry, eventually the oMagefags will be defeated and nMage will reign supreme.

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Completed Chapter 3, Ghouls, to my satisfaction. That is, unless anyone has any suggestions for more Tzimisce war ghouls? I included szlachta and vozhd from Revenants and Ghouls, as well as Hellhounds updated from Clanbook: Tzimisce Revised. I also included the Headhunters from Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines. Or Headrunners, or Headcases, or whatever they're called. I went with Headhunters.

Also, changed the font throughout to Book Antiqua and Arial Narrow. It's not quite as good-looking to me as Bookmania and ScalaSans, but on the bright side it's now possible to highlight and copy the text, which will probably be useful to anyone who wants to use this.

I'm now on to the "Others" section, which is mostly reprints from the V20 Core Rulebook but is also going to include a section on Laibon and Kuei-jin.

>>51302745
They were only outnumbered after 90% of their population was wiped out by the diseases brought over by the Spaniards.

>>51302700
>Everyone is just Mages in custom modded skins and soul engines

>>51302745
>trained people like medicine men
like doctors?!?

>>51302764
You might as well ask why the metaplot doesn't add up. The OWoD is inconsistent and a total mess. Ascension being the worst offender. Don't blame the setting. Blame the writers. It annoys me how much potential old Mage had.

>>51302561
I like Atlantis and the Supernal Realms better than "screw up your eyes and wish for it really hard and it'll happen".

>>51302793
Oh, also, the font change seems to have had the unexpected but pleasant side-effect of shrinking the file size. So that's nice.

>>51302764
>questions answered in the book
Nope

>Does the media influence reality more than education
I don't know, Have you heard of the current Prez of USA?

>>51302764
Short version, it gives a lot of theories and explanations of how it works, but the finer mechanisms of how a particular thought or idea influences the world at large is best explained by "Just go with it".

The basic concept is that the majority opinion on particular ideas, particularly those that have to do with the fundamentals of reality and the existence of certain phenomena, within a particular area , defines the reality that is experienced by that area.

As more viewpoints and perceptions are layered unto a particular area however, it becomes more beholden to those viewpoints as well. This also extends into the future, where the views of the future can effect the past, and vice versa, but only to a lesser degree then those who were/are actually there.

Awakened are people who can enforce their own reality onto reality through acts of will, but because most people can't fully grasp that, they instead use the various magical systems that have been devised to help bridge the gap.

In short, if you were an Awakened, you would find it much easier to grasp "Say this prayer" or "Perform this ritual" to get an effect then 'it just happens'. The magical lore is a focus for your will, but has no reality beyond that, which is why it can be anything from ray guns and spandex to robes and staves.

If any of this sounds confusing, thats because it is, and even in-setting its debated endlessly how it ultimately works, with the final answer being "Its up to your DM".

>>51302815
>Turn existentialist-post-modern setting where anything can happen into boring Constantine/Dresden Files shit

Such improvement. Much fun. Wow.

>>51302794
Well, no, they would have been fairly outnumbered anyway. The Americas wwere the most sparsely populated continents on the planet in the 1500s (except Antarctica, of course). There were maybe 50 million people total across both of them.

Plus the Spaniards were fantastic at playing tribes against each other.

>>51302808
The super not racist at all text would imply they were more akin to mages.

>>51302791

>Don't worry, eventually the oMagefags will be defeated and nMage will reign supreme.

Hah, what a typical nMagefag. Everyone knows Ascension has a better setting than Awakening. Not to mention stronger mages. Fite me.

>>51302815
but but but but my fairy Paradigm is so Awesome you guys.

Seriously thou, it's actually really easy to port over the better parts of paradigm without all the CHOAS1 PURPLE MAGIC into nwod

>>51302866
> an over weight teenager hiding behind his computer
Nigg you couldn't run down the block. let only throw a punch

>>51302857
More like it turns a shameless fantasy sink into a more focused and defined setting that still has tons of potential while being more consistent. So yes "such improvement. Much fun. Wow.", you meme spouting retard. Figures that somebody who uses doge as a rebuttal prefers oMage.

>>51302909
Don't worry about that anon. He can't play in the real modern setting because it reminds him too much of his shitty job and failure of a life

>>51302909
>and defined setting that still has tons of potential while being more consistent.

Much like Requiem and Forsaken...and most of the nWoD, for that matter...I find it immensely dull and uninteresting and...empty. Like drinking a store-brand diet soda instead of proper Coca-Cola. Or perhaps a knockoff toy.

>>51302908
I doubt he's a teenager. Only nostalgia goggles could fool someone into believing that Ascension is better than Awakening.

>>51302909
The shameless kitchen sink is more interesting. The "more focused defined setting" isn't even a good interpretation of occultism, because it goes from a system based on real world occult traditions into a game based on some Doctor Strange Movie flowing runes bullshit.

I'd much prefer martial artists fighting 1950s robots then suffer through some wannabe Urban Fantasy horseshit that combines eastern mysticism with platonism AGAIN to create magic that just looks like every wannabe Percy-Jackson Supernatural shitshow.

>>51302939
Knockoff toy is better for your intent given that generic soft drinks aren't that bad, or else I've managed to live in areas with decent generic brand coke knockoffs.

>>51302941
Ascension has a better setting. Awakening has better mechanics. That's my opinion on the matter.

>>51302966
You just don't have any taste.

>>51302939
It figures that you would drink Coke, one of the most atrociously tasteless sodas on the market. Mello Yello is far superior. You can't beat that smooth flavor.

>>51300318
You forgot to mention that the "Rule of One" mechanic actually makes it so you have a HIGHER chance of completely fucking everything up with a Botch if your dice pool is bigger.

>>51302939
This so hard. oWoD is weird, confusing, and occasionally silly, but its also a fucking blast of weird shit and crazy ideas. Its an original setting, even if its a batshit crazy one.

nWoD is dull and lifeless. Its like "Okay this is the vampire game. Its about vampires. This is the mage game, its about urban mages"

Its too damn generic. Vampires who sculpt their flesh like clay, thats interesting. Hippy Werewolves who fight spirits, thats interesting. Mad scientists fighting hindu death priests in the inner earth, thats interesting. Its weird and pulp, but its definitely interesting.

CofD is just....eh. Its a prospectively serviceable collection of boring horror lines all of which share the same naming convention. X: The Buy-It-Please

It's a Magenocide

>>51303004
Its supposes to be a sandbox game . They want it so you can fucking change up things youbdont like about the lore

>>51303004

The metaplot was so fucking bad though. And only because the writers were fucking idiots. A lot of unnecessary things were blown up.

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>>51303004
Can you play as Commander Shepard in oWoD Mage?

So, STs. Are there parts of your Chronicles of which you are proud of?

>>51303032
>>51303024
Honestly I ignore the metaplot and just build my own setting out of the ideas in the books for my Ascension campaign. Most of the Mage and vampire fluff is canon, some of the werewolf fluff is, and most of the other splats if they exist at all are vastly reduced in scope.

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>Writing and signing pacts is difficult.
>Familiars often require a human (usually the one the demon is
>trying to make a deal with) to write the documents, preventing
>demons from filling them with legalese and small print.

Did the Demon STG book just forget that Polly the demonic parrot can just touch a blank piece of paper and turn it into an already written pact, or is there a reason they can't?

>The process of forging a pact is a simple one: the demon offers
>a mortal the chance to gain something in exchange for something.
>Usually, the price is a part of the mortal’s life, sometimes one the
>mortal would like to be shed of: an abusive relationship, a dead-
>end job, even a criminal act. If the human accepts the deal, the
>demon must present a contract, though this is a simple process
>since she can create one from any appropriate medium: paper,
>flesh, stone or something similarly symbolic and enduring. It only
>takes a few moments to transform the medium into a fully-written
>contract.

>>51299811
In Promethean they flat-out say that, yes, you could become a vampire or a mage or whatever, but seeing as the whole fucking point of the game is to become human, they advise against it. When your character becomes human, they should be retired. Like a mage who Ascends or a vampire who achieves Golconda/Redemption. Why continue?

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>>51302966
True enough.

>>51302960
Also the concept of the Technocracy verses the Traditions, and the fundamental conflict of safety verses freedom, was great, particularly since it wasn't even the original intention of the setting, but rather something the fans created and were behind so much that White Wolf caved and made the Technocracy more sympathetic, even arguably the "good" guys of the entire World of Darkness.

Is it better to be relatively safe but controlled, or to be free in a world of monsters?

>>51303045
My current party is a Japanese Shrine Maiden, a British Hermetic Magus with a King Arthur fetish, a meme magick-fueled pollack who hacks reality and never leaves his house [communicates by drone] and an Aztec Orphan based on Part 1 of Jojo. Yes, you can play as Not-Commander Shephard in oMage. Just make him an Etherite.

>>51303065

because you could go up even another level

being human is cool and all, but why not try and become a cooler human?

>>51302960
>The shameless kitchen sink is more interesting.
No, it's not. Just because it allows for stupid mishmashed horseshit does not make it interesting. It makes it a tasteless mess.

>>51303073
The Seers of the Throne are just so one-dimensional by comparison. The fight between the Traditions and the Technocracy is so much more complex then the black and white conflict between Mages and the Exarchs.

Plus I love Men in Black.

>>51302858
>Well, no, they would have been fairly outnumbered anyway. The Americas wwere the most sparsely populated continents on the planet in the 1500s (except Antarctica, of course). There were maybe 50 million people total across both of them.
They couldn't move enough people from Europe to the Americas to fuck up the local hold on the Consensus fast enough.

>Plus the Spaniards were fantastic at playing tribes against each other.
That's only because everyone hated the Aztecs because they were a bunch of warmongering, blood sacrificing assholes. The Incas were dying of disease by the time the Spanish reached them.

>>51303093
Insane and stupid yet interesting beats genetic and dull.

One tries to be pulp and succeeds, the other tries to be philosophical and fails.

>>51299811

I beleive in certain cases you get to take exactly one power with you, as of Promethean 2e. Otherwise it's not necessarily a given that you'll even remember being a Promethean at all, and in another certain set of cases, you'll manage to become human and have an entire identify made for you that you can just slip onto, no questions asked.

The New Dawn has a surprising amount of outcomes.

>>51302611

WoD (oWoD) setting where you play a ghost in a dark-fantasy inspired other world, wrestling with your demons made manifest into a being within you that wants to drag itself into nothingness. You navigate ghost society and try to settle your business so you can hopefully pass on, if such a thing is possible.

>>51303004
>Fascist genocidal Hippy Werewolves who fight evil big business spirits.
Fixed that for you.

Forsaken is 100 times better than Apocalypse.

>>51303080
How do I cast biotic adept space magic shit?

And what about the armor?

>>51303153
Everything in nWoD is better than oWoD

I don't know why are we discussing this? Just send the oldworlders to /v/

>>51303154
Max out Forces and Matter and get Arete to at least 3.

Armor can be made with Matter, telekinesis can be gotten with Forces. Between the two you can make some crazy slag-guns. Also you're gonna want to house-rule a lot of things, old Mage has great lore but the various mechanical systems leave some things to be desired. I recommend just reading the books and duck-taping things together till it looks good to you.

>>51303024
>Its supposes to be a sandbox game

Every Tabletop RPG is a sandbox game. If you have a troupe who seriously objects to you changing the game lore to fit your needs, you need a better troupe.

It's easier to remove the bad stuff stuff you don't like and keep the good stuff you do, then it is to make up good stuff where there's nothing.

Plus at least as far as Requiem goes, I just hate the Clans and Sects as feeling immensely artificial. I just can't find a good way to make them *fit* together, at least not on a worldwide scale. The Clans feel like they should be tighter than they are, the dominant factor in Kindred society, with the Sects instead just being localized factions that don't have worldwide power (except perhaps the Lancea Sanctum...although on that point the fact that Requiem made it all the way through several publications before realizing that "Lancea Sanctum" is nonsensical Latin is hilarious)

>>51303196
>I just can't find a good way to make them *fit* together, at least not on a worldwide scale.


That's pretty much one of their stated design goals for Chronicles. There's no global conspiracy because all the vampires/werewolves/magi/demons/whatever are no safer in the darkness than mortals are. The world is supposed to be mysterious and frightening, even for the predators.

>>51303105
They sure as Hell could fuck up a bunch, though. By which I mean, literally fuck and breed up huge families.

Between the 1500s and 1700s in America it wasn't unusual to see colonist families with ten, fifteen, or even more kids.

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>>51303182
Alright, I'll try my best to cast a singularity at some fag to fuck his whole day up

>>51303196
As of 2e the Covenants are no longer world wide for the most part. The standard five are more of a western thing with other regional Covenants existing.

>>51303004
>Vampires who sculpt their flesh like clay, thats interesting
And can also be in Requiem. Just make tzimisce into a bloodline.
>Hippy Werewolves who fight spirits, thats interesting
And can also be in Forsaken, without really even changing anything. Werewolves are still heavily involved with spirits and most of them prefer to be in nature.
>Mad scientists fighting hindu death priests in the inner earth
This is admittedly harder to spin, but still doable. There are still mages who weave magic into science and there are legacies for voodoo necromancers. There could also be Atlantean ruins built into a magically carved cave deep in the Earth's mantle.

I don't get why people are shitting on CofD for being bland and uninventive. I just read the sourcebook for Boston and it's full of cool shit. nWoD might be more grounded than oWoD but you are still just as able to have crazy weird shit in your games.

>>51303271
Because even if something is technically mechanically possible, if its not in the lore and isn't an established part of the setting, its not good evidence for the setting having good fluff.

The fluff, the setting, the story of CofD is what feels so bland and uninspired compared to the crazy pulp bullshit that is oWoD. I'm not saying I wouldn't be able to think of a fun character idea if I was invited to a game of CofD, I'm just saying that when I read the books, nothing speaks to me. Its all just dry and dull.

It feels like every other blockbuster movie's interpretation of magic, and that doesn't do anything for me.

>>51303251
Sure, fine, whatever. My point is that when a vampire DOES decide he needs to find another vampire for help, for whatever reason, he should seek out another member of his Clan, not another member of his Sect.

Not to mention that the insistance on not having a metaplot means that all these Sects end up existing in a vacuum where they never really seem to struggle against one another and hold no real ground.

>>51303344
Fuck you its far easier to make character concepts in nWod the cWod

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>>51303388

>>51303101
>Seers of the Throne
>one dimensional
Not really. Seers can be pretty diverse. The one thing they all have in common is that they obey the Exarchs. Aside from that they can be anything from a businessman who manipulates the political scene to work against the consilium in a cold war for power (and there are Pentacle mages who do the same thing against the Seers for the same selfish reasons) or a zealous thug who leads raids on local sanctums because he thinks Pentacle mages are heretics.

And while Exarchs are clearly bad guys, they rarely act as direct antagonists to the players. Sometimes even the Seers don't get heavily involved. Struggles within the Pentacle and players can just choose to focus on personal things. Conflicts are rarely black and white.

There is literally nothing wrong with diablerie.

>>51303406

you have to be a vampire to diablerize someone so you're wrong to begin with

>>51303417

I second this

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>>51303406
WHOA THERE GOYIM

>>51303405
>Its okay that they're literally the priests of evil tyrant gods who want to stifle mankind's evolution and may be single-handedly responsible for the entire WoD because sometimes they do it for selfish reasons.

Individual seers can be likable or have mixed motives, but as a group they're literally just Generic Evil Cult #234234

>>51303448

Get out of here Strauss you inferior Tremere wannabe Mage

>>51303405
I think you're missing one of the fundamental points of the Technocracy, which was that they had already ASSUMED DIRECT CONTROL. One of the things that made them into what they were was the fact that, from their perspective, the Ascension War was over, their Paradigm had won, and their main goal was just consolidating their victory.

It's not just about having techno-business wizards. It's about having Techno-business wizards who, when confronted with a Mage trying to take them down, they just get a confused look on their face. "We're still doing this?"

>>51299677
Sounds like someone needs a silver bullet to the noggin to remind them why they stick to the woods.

>>51303406
except for the ingestion. That does suck

>>51300252
Because not everyone wants a power wank. Lots of us wanna be average guys just trying to protect people from monsters. When you manage to punch out of your weight class due to cunning, strategy, and tenacity, it's real satisfying.

Besides if anyone catches you by surprise, it's game over mage.

>>51303353
Then make seeking out the Clan for help rather than their chosen Covenant the more desirable thing to do. And if the Covenants in your Chronicle aren't struggling against one another in an endless clusterfuck of dickish backstabbing, that's on you as ST. They're fucking designed to play off one another.

>>51303538

>Implying catching a mage by surprise is easy

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>>51303538

>implying the mage won't catch you by surprise

>>51303448
I'm not falling for the pyramid meme. Strauss can suck my flaccid dick.

>>51303553
>>51303578
Implying I don't rape the mage because I'm a better mage and weak mages are my fetish.

>>51303605
Found the Banisher.

>>51303538

Surprising a mage is easier said than done. It's also nearly impossible when they're sufficiently paranoid and observant. Or just an Acanthus master race.

>>51303578

This is their specialty

>>51303605

Such hubris

>>51303610

It's too late. He has already solidified mage supremacy in everyone's minds. His work Is done. Because only a mage can kill a mage.

Im thinking of a concept for a Mage who does divination and sympathetic magic through his trade of shoewaking? What would we the best path? He is reading your future and sympathetic ties while making your shoes.

>>51303499
Tech verse Tradition. It's right there what the conflict was all about. Which is a terrible concept. Technology has single handed improved everyone life's. The argument between the two fails so hard, when vaccination wipes out polo and small pox; and then anti vac's go against it and suddenly polo and small pox is back on the market. A real health issue solved by mankind, and then a number of dicks lying out there ass exploiting belief

From a punk perspective the conflict works. but on literally every other angle its falls apart.

Seer work better because they can use any method to oppressive dicks. Religion Technology Economy War Propaganda Medicine Healthcare Government. it's all on the table

and the only reason this conflict is still a thing is because consequential reality failed to be a driving force in the game. Once you have consequential reality be an actual thing, suddenly nothing works and the setting drops out of the modern punk trappings into an utter fantasy.

The punk against The Man motif is literally trying to kill the concept that makes it a viable theme

>>51303499
Except then you get a bunch of science fetishes jacking the Technocracy off and bending over backwards to explain how they aren't evil despite all the bad shit they do.

>>51303538
How is being powerful not awesome though?

>>51303538
This guy gets it

What's the argument about today, boys?

>>51303711

Mage supremacy?

>>51303691
Except you're missing the whole point, which isn't "Technology is bad" its "Would you rather have safety or freedom?"

The whole point of the Technocrats is that they are offering mankind something desirable. They want to make the world safe and prosperous for all, but they want it all to be under their heels.

The Traditions promise you more esoteric prizes like freedom or self-mastery or wonder or beauty, but at the cost of a safe easy 9-5 existence.

The entire reason the conflict "works" is because both sides are arguably the good guys, depending on what your values are. It has nothing to do with "Hurr science bad", the fact that "hurr science good!" is the entire reason they're sympathetic in the first place.

The Seers are boring entirely BECAUSE they have nothing redeemable about them. They're JUST there to serve as antagonists and shit all over mankind.

>>51303711
Edition Wars, apparently.

>>51303707
Because it's easy and therefore meaning less when you actually save the day. You don't get a party for doing everyday things. It'd be like your boss giving you a raise for arriving on time

>>51303691
The Society of Reason was good, but the Technocracy is a rotting shell that cares more about control than helping out the common man. If any of the other Traditions had pulled together and did what the Technocracy did smallpox would have been cured by magic amulets or blessings or some other shit because that's how the world would work.

>>51303344
>if its not in the lore and isn't an established part of the setting, its not good evidence for the setting having good fluff.
Literally all the examples I posted are all in the offical lore except for the Tzimisce bloodline, and there are tons of official bloodlines that lets Vampires do cool shit.

>Hippy werewolves who fight spirits
Check. A werewolf can indeed be a hippy and their lore still revolves around spirits and fighting spirits. Unless what you mean is you want all werewolves to be hippies. And all werewolves prefer nature still anyway.
>mad scientists
Check. See Ars Nova for mages who see magic more as a science and experiment with ways to integrate the two.
>hindu death priests
Check. Mages still make their own ways of doing things and necromancy legacies are real, so a hindu death priest does more than fit the lore, it's actually very likely to exist.
>inner earth
Check. Ruins can be found in crazy places, including inside the earth. It's a big part of the Myterium's job to lead excavations on them in the pursuit of knowledge and sweet sweet loot.

I don't see what your issue is. One of the big draws of CofD is that the fluff is designed to be malleable, and there are still crazy things in the official books. Hell the fucking opening story in the Awakening 1e corebook has a guy crash through a window on a motorcycle, skid to a stop, and shoot an abyssal bug monster (who just got done throwing a college student into a rift that leads to a realm totally alien to reality) in the head with a fucking laser pistol.

>>51303731
One could just as easily argue that the Technocracy is boring because they're just The Man. In both Awakening and Ascension, the setting's what you make of it.

So I'm enjoying the Paradox rules in Mage 2e, but I wish some of this shit was more clearly defined.

Tonight one of my players released a 3-point Paradox, meaning I had the option to "Create an Abyssal Environmental Tilt." It'd be awesome if the book bothered to give even ONE example of what that actually means.

Is there an actually attainable way a demon could escape the god-machine? If they're not being held back by a cover and they had a renewable source of aether, they could just go on a rocket and live on on mars right?

I don't know much about CofD and the various magical worlds it has, could a demon go into one of them and survive there?

>>51303737

Wasn't it implied that when the Traditions had control that the world was ruled by elusive and power-hungry super wizards?

The Technocracy arose because what came before was worse.

Besides, they are improving humanity's lot slowly but surely within the confines of their paradigm.

>>51303759
It's called Hell and the whole point of the game is to find your personal one. This journey is what the game is named after.

>>51303742
My issue is it sucks and your opinions are wrong.

>As a more serious aside though, I just don't like it, and I don't find it nearly as interesting in concept or execution as old Mage. I doubt I'm going to be argued into changing my thoughts on that matter of taste.

>>51303737
Which is really the interesting thing about the Sons of Ether, they show what the Technocracy could have done if they hadn't have gone bad. We could have flying cars and free energy right now, if only the Techies weren't so terrified of letting the normies have power in the system. The floppy-helicopter riding clockpunk enthusiasts who build Reason as a philosophy would be spinning in their graves if they knew a small group with a monopoly on supernatural power was controlling the masses AGAIN.

>>51303731
>Technocrats is that they are offering mankind
Ah no, thats not how that works. Mankind built the modern world. and the Tech are piggy backing off of science. So no not really, turns out mankind likes to be self actualizes, and figure out the world by themselves. Turns out most people think that powers based on emotions are unreliable and dangerously stupid

>>51303733
How is fighting existential terrors meaningless exactly? Mages have bigger responsibilities than Hunters and are far more heroic when you consider just how much is at stake when the Abyss is involved.

>>51303770

Yes, I know what Hell means, but are those actually feasible ways of reaching it? Has any demon actually reached their own hell yet?

>>51303759
Ask your Storyteller.

Seriously, that's the whole point of CofD. Nothing's set in stone. It's not a setting ready to play out of the box, it's a toolset for building your own stories. Maybe Hell is actually a place in your Chronicle, maybe it's a state of being. Maybe it's a cruel lie and there is no escape.

>>51303789
I don't think they've published an end game book for Demon yet.

>>51303782
Except thats not even remotely how the setting worked. Most major scientific developments were done by Technocrats or by mundane scientists working off technocratic principles.
>>51303767
Exactly, and what is the Technocracy nowadays? A shadowy cabal of power-hungry super wizards. They've become everything the Order of Reason was fighting against.

Whatever happened to making the world a better place, and power to the people, and that awe-struck wonder at Science that used to be their creedo?

>>51303789
That's like asking if any Vampire has been Redeemed or any Promethean has achieved humanity. The way you actually achieve this shit is determined by the ST.

>>51303773
The the first fucking that happen when mankind got the Nuke was to drop it on Japan. They did this right under the Tech's nose.

Do you really want a war mongering species to have the power to destroy planets?

>>51303783
then do your fucking job. mages are the 1% that continuously fuck it up for everyone else, because they don't actually tackle the things they need to. Thats not being powerful Powerful is curpstombing the druggies on the corner cause your teacher told you Say no to drugs

>>51303794
>>51303808

Shit, I guess you're right. I was worried that it might be a stupid idea, but if it's that open then anything works I suppose. Thanks.

>>51303811
I prefer the fluff that says that nukes are so destructive they aren't even really believed in as part of the Consensus, and every 'nuke' thats been fired has actually required the sacrifice of a powerful Technocrat in a fireball of Forces and Paradox.

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>>51303731
So basically it's Templars vs. Assassins, but with magic.

>>51303832
Do you naturally hate mages or are you just salty about them being better than everyone else? Grow up.

>>51303691
>consequential
Did you mean consensual?

>>51303846
...yes. That is an apt comparison.

>>51303802
>scientific developments were done by Technocrats
Mage supremacy at its fucking worse. Worse than Vampire Rasputin. Guess all those folks who worked hours and hours in labs advancing science were meaningless. You only got it half right kid. Mankind doesn't need the supernatural, the supernatural NEEDS mankind

Aside from those two fan-splats for the Purified, (the one that really emphasized the spirit nature of them and another that turned them into some sort of drug addled sorcerer-engineers) has there been anything new coming out of the community on them lately?

>>51303759
The God-Machine has angels on missions in outer space.

>>51303858
It doesn't have to be consensual.

>>51303752
They're not The Man, they're the Men in Black. They have a space division that fights aliens and their own corrupted selves, for Chrissake.

>>51303782
>Mankind built the modern world. and the Tech are piggy backing off of science
>Also guys, by the way, I've never actually read any Mage book, but I still feel the need to post about it.
>tbqh
>t.illiterate moron
>The Post
>And Knuckles

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>>51303871
Fuck dude, even the Creed itself kinda fits Mage. Listen to Altair's explanation of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_sEyky7NlY

>>51303902
And again, they can be just as boring as you claim the Seers are in the wrong hands.

>>51303843
martyrdom reflects religion and belief more than science

>>51303872
>Mage supremacy

Are you really complaining that real-world events have supernatural explanations in a work of fiction as 'mage supremacy'?

Really?

Do you get mad that a Beast sunk the Titanic and JFK was actually eaten by a monster and his assassination was a coverup, too?

>>51303872
>Mage supremacy at its fucking worse
How is that a bad thing?

>>51303846
Given that Mage came first, I'd say Assassin's Creed is more like Technocracy vs. Traditions, but without magic.

>>51303872
>Worse than Vampire Rasputin

I miss Vampire Rasputin. His plan was as batshit insane as it was awesome.

>>51303872
Not quite. The Consensus is self-perpetuating. The Technocracy created a Paradigm wherein the magic that they worked was repeatable by Sleepers. Sleeper scientists can and do make real breakthroughs all the time, but the only reason why they can is because the Technocracy has guided the world towards a Paradigm wherein it's possible for such things to happen without being Awakened.

>>51303902
>missing the point this hard

>>51303902
>>51303872
The way it worked was like this

Step 1: The Technocracy comes up with new ideas or inventions they want to gain mass acceptance within a set timeframe.

Step 2: The Technocracy finds mortal or Technocrat thinkers in the scientific fields or elsewhere whose ideas they think would be useful in advancing this time-table.

Step 3: The idea or invention is advertised, "prototyped" [actually just shown until it becomes Coincidental], and gains mass acceptance.

Step 4: It joins the history of science.

Sometimes ideas that mortals make up are incorporated into the Technocratic paradigm because they like them. Other times, something the Technocrats would have preferred not become consensual reality does [like quantum theory or dark matter] and they just have to adapt to it. The history of science in the WoD is more art then science, and its more accurate to say the Technocrats "guided" scientific development then just made it up.

>>51303902
>MIB aren't The Man
???

>>51303872

I don't even know what you're on about. There are plenty of mortal inventors who weren't guided by the Technocrats, but their inventions tend to work on principles that the Technocracy/ Order of Reason solidified into reality when pushing out the chaos of the 'supernatural'.

And on the other side of the coin, a lot of inventions were things they had for ages before the general populace did, they just had to introduce it slowly but feasibly into the real world in order to not cause paradox or something of the sort.

Been ages since I read those books.

>>51303958

>Will Smith
>the man

>>51303919
The difference is whether or not the Technocracy is boring depends entirely on how much use the Storyteller makes out of the expansive amount of fluff he has available for inspiration, and how good the Storyteller is. And if/when he needs something on the fly, he's got literally hundreds of pages worth of books to use as sources.

The Seers, by comparison, have almost no larger fluff to fall back upon - you could fit everything about them into a five-page document at most - so the Storyteller has to make shit up as he goes and hope it's decent.

As we've talked about, it's easier to excise bad shit and keep the good shit, then it is to come up with good shit apropos nothing.

>>51303811
>implying the japs didn't deserve to be nuked
In all seriousness though if we had absurdly advanced technology then war would be a thing of the past. Don't play Fallout so much.

>>51304005
>He thinks war is fought only over resources

Look at him! Look at him and laugh!