/l5rg/ Legend of the Five Rings General

And then they fucked.

>>51285173
Male geisha are a thing, but they gave a different name-- I think it starts with an o-- and their behaviour is different. They still fulfill the same purpose of providing samurai a place to just be humans, but where geisha are supposed to be gentle and soothing, these guys are boisterous and act like your best friend and drinking buddy.

>>51285173
I think the male whores are called butterfly boys

Geisha arent whore though. You are mistaking them for Oiran.

Does the book ever actually define what a trample attack is? I would think it involves charging through the target or something but it isn't made clear.

>>51285173
Geisha are great to use as spies actually. One of my BBEG actually owns some geisha houses and uses them to spy on samurais, get information on where are his targets and sometimes even murder people.

>>51287012
It's just the complex action form of a kick, a name and not some kind of special move. Like how lions can claw attack as a simple action or bite with a complex.

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>>51285173
>How do you do geisha?

Geisha re not hinin but part of the clergy. They are regarded similarly as shugenja, only that they do their stuff with mortals and not with spirits. What is rituals, spiritualism, and spells for a shugenja, it is the same with entertainment, arts, and social networking for a geisha. Since is is said that Amaterasu was the original/first geisha, they even have a little better "divine integrity" than samurai and this generally reflects in their social status as well (the average geisha ranks slightly higher than the average samurai).

>Do you have male geisha?

Yeah, and not even those drummer guys, but honest-to-goodness male geisha. They are rare, and definitely a strange sight, but they exist.

>Do you make your geisha moonlight as prostitutes as well?

Obviously not. Some geisha do make a habbit out of having sex with people, and apprentices often cover up a failure of performance with sex, but these things are not taken lightly. If a geisha wants a profile for bodily pleasures then she hires/trains real (hinin) prostitutes.

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So, first-time player in this system, first character, could use a bit of advice for general character development, for a Kakita bushi. I've saved up the first 12 XP to get one of the Rings to 3 (either Air or Fire's available for that, I'm leaning towards the former). From there on out, what are the general sweet spots I should be aiming towards? Any particular skill mastery bonuses, kata, or rings scores that would be good to get sooner rather than later?

>>51293001
As a duelist, you basically want Air and Void, and then iajutsu and kenjutsu. Social and artistic skills will complement your high air, and Meditation or Tea Ceremony will complement your Void-- Kakita bushi has Tea Ceremony as a school skill, so you may as well go with that one. The Thousand Years of Steel kata series is decent and flavourful for you, particularly the first one, Empire Rests on its Edge

I have what might be a silly question.
Reincarnation is a thing in Rokugan, it is likely your character could be the reincarnation of some previous hero or villain.
Would who they were affect your now?

>>51293485
It's possible. There's a Reincarnated advantage, but I don't remember what it does. You could also just fluff a lot of stuff as leftovers from a pst life, though; an unusual skill, a spiritual advantage or disadvantage...

>>51293565
But could you inherit their past spiritual problems or traits?
Like say your ancestor was heavily tainted by the realm with all the hungry dead (but not Tainted). Or haunted by a particular ghost.
Would those things happen to you or would it only be like... a small foot note. Maybe your character is more vicious/can see ghosts.

>>51293795
I don't think you would continue to be haunted by a particular ghost, but if you had, say, a Kharmic Tie with someone in a past life, you might now have one with their reincarnation. If you became Cursed or Blessed by a Realm, it might linger.

Ultimately it's a judgement call, and you should talk it over with your GM, but it's not the kind of thing that would be out of keeping with the setting.

>>51285173

Does anyone have a PDF link to the new Atlas? Its the one that seems most elusive to find anywhere.

>>51293902
The ghost could be chasing an enemy though life after life. Unable to enter Meido and reincarnate because it can't let go of the Mortal Realm.

>>51293942

Someone should probably reupload this to a better site and stick it in with the other links up top.

http://www72.zippyshare.com/v/4jULC45j/file.html

>>51293795
Depends on how they were reincarnated. Most pass through Emma-O's realm and are stripped of most, if not all of that.

>>51294056
That's why you go and visit the Moto.
Or the Kitsu. Not sure which would be best to visit in this sort of situation.

>>51295553
Depends on who you are most able to make a deal with. Also the Falcon and Kuni are good options if you need an exorcism.

>>51295777
Aren't Kuni a bit limited when it comes to things like ghosts?
I figure they'd be super focused on one specific thing; the Taint.

>>51295909
Compared to the real specialists, yeah. But they are more used to dealing with hostile stuff compared to many shugenja and at worst can brute force it away with Banish.

>>51295909
Kuni aren't bad at it. They work closely with the Toritaka, who really are ghost specialists, and the Nezumi who know a lot of weird trivia about spirits and whatnot.

>>51296958
>implying Nezumi can relay that information in a way people can understand

>>51297533
There are Crab who literally spend months living in Nezumi dens, speaking their language. They can relay information.

>>51289787
I like those Geisha. It certainly makes them feel more right.
I'm looking for advice on creating an equivalent to the Tokugawa and Meiji era hidden Christians for a Togashi Dynasty game. Currently, I have it legal for them to worship in their own homes and shrines built in specially designated places, with unofficial official permission to practice on the Kaiu Wall (the crab take any weaponnthey can). Currently I'm stealing a form of the church of the prophets from 7th sea, but what other ideas do people have?

On tablet and no pictures to save thread. No content either.

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>>51296879

Do you think an Isawa non-Master being promoted to Jade Champion has sent the family's whole power structure into disarray?

>>51299118
You don't get promoted to Jade Champion. You win the position by winning the Test of the Jade Champion.

And I doubt it would seriously muck up the family's power structure much considering the post has been held by non-Isawa for most of its existence. The only Isawa Jade Champion that is named in the lore is the current one, Isawa Kaname.

>>51297626
What, no ideas?

Just rolled up a Mirumoto Bushi, 1st edition.

Advice for how to properly do one?

>>51304620
Besides not being bad with Kenjutsu or letting a Kakita beat you in a duel? Not really.

>>51304620
More so than 4e, 1e Dragon clan are really individualist, allowing their members to take their own path in life as long as it doesn't conflict with Bushido.

>>51304484
And that, Rokugan, is why personal shields should can be a pretty damn useful thing to have.

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>>51305278

>>51305278
>not being shielded by your honour

>>51307188
>>51305278
The Moto have actually used shields before-- in a lot of cases, they were purely ceremonial, but Moto Gaheris was famous for actually using his in combat, and it went on to become a Family relic. Shields were also quite a bit more popular among the Moto during his reign.

I used the same first name for my new character in L5R as my last one.

Am I bankrupt creatively? I just really like the name.

>>51305278
Supposedly, those big-ass shoulder pads have the same role as hand-held shields.

Don't ask, it's nippon logic.

>>51307282
Well, for historical Japan that makes sense. Early samurai were all about that horse archery, because as we've seen with the mongols, that shit can be pretty devastating. Obviously a handheld shield's no good when you're wrestling with a bow on horseback, so the sode on the shoulders are the next best thing, particularly if the motion of drawing the bow will have your side and back turned towards the enemy.
Infantry tactics adjusted accordingly. The best counter against horse archers (short of having more/better horse archers) consisted of a large quantity of foot archers, ideally in a fortified position. Foot archers can't really use a personal shield either, so in Japan they used large semi-stationary pavises. You'll need to protect those against direct cavalry charges which you'd best do with long spears or pikes, which also don't lend themselves too well to be used in conjunction with shields. The focus eventually shifted away from horse archery but much of these tactics remained, since you can't go far wrong with a good stout polearm as the weapon for your infantry. Then soon after firearms showed up, and using shields against those is kind of a waste of time anyhow.

Now, the question is how well that would translate to Rokugan. Over there, cavalry combat doesn't seem to be particularly commonly practised outside of the Unicorn clan, and even they don't seem to be doing much in the way of horse archery.

>>51307220
What name?

>>51286435
Taikomaki or something. Drum beaters!

Do you think the Toturi would have made the same mistakes as the Iweko dynasty has?

Did anyone even like the Toturi?
I mean I'd guess that would be the main reason why the story team decided to get rid of them.

>>51310147

I like them much better than the Iweko.

>>51309078

But how do you kill a Spider?

>>51311259
Step on it.

>>51311259
You just wait, eventually the spider kills themselves.

>>51311241
That's not hard, the Iweko are pretty unlikable.

>>51310147

We never had a chance to like the Toturi, they killed them off as fast as they could.

Honestly I liked them just fine - I always run my L5R games in later periods assuming their lineage continued.

>>51311309
I have a hard time blaming the Iweko for anything when the bad ideas are all coming from Corporate. It's one thing to dislike characters who are well-written morons, but disliking the victims of executive mandates just doesn't feel fair.

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>>51311241
>>51311352
People like the Toturi more in hindsight, but at the time they were as disliked as the Iweko. The reasons weren't that dissimilar, really. When you boil it down, AEG had certain restrictions on how the story arcs could ever grow, and those restrictions didn't fit fan expectations for imperial characters.

>>51311581
AEG also just had no fucking clue how to run a metaplot.

>>51311581

Well, I was meaning with hindsight and looking them over.

I think one reason why I don't mind the Toturi is that there seemed to be no expectation to like them - they were simply presented with flaws and strengths.

Iweko I comes off as such bullshit because she ruins everything but then we're supposed to think she was some sort of mystical genius for coming up with the Colonies as a contingency plan... for the problems she created herself.

>>51311692
It didn't help that they were sometimes thrown curveballs from tournament winners. The Fox joined the Mantis entirely because a Mantis player demanded it as a story reward.

>>51311716
I hope that FFG keeps tournament results far the fuck away from the RPG.

>>51311716
Tournament winners were absolute shit stains on numerous occasions (attempts to turn the paragons of bushido into an all-bloodspeaker gang come to mind), but reducing tournament results to jokes (nezumi wins), the current OP faction / net deck sweeping the tournament prize list (ie; 4/6 Cranes in the keepers of enlightenment) ... there's a lot of accidental or unintended shitting on the story that could have been avoided by structuring the choices differently.

Then there's accusations of AEG being Cheaty mcCheaters when it comes to major events' points tallying (more of a problem in Winter Court), or translating results oddly. ("you chose to corrupt your high honour guy - well, we're killing him to corrupt someone new" - or "you won this sword for your guy - the emperor gives it to him through his stomach" - or "your fanbase is complaining about being forced to work with the bad guy despite being the most active clan against bad guy - we'll get the second most active clan to work with the bad guy instead")

>>51311352
Did you ignore the Khan trying to take over?
Or was it just a failed attempt?

>>51312749

Generally assume a failed attempt. The Shadowed Throne is an interesting path into a Toturi future

Toturi Sezaru is still my favorite character.
Would have made for a horrible Emperor but he was really neat. Honestly all his kids were bad choices for emperor....

The best was probably the one who died, his only girl kid.

>>51313179
Nah, she would have been too strict on trying to force all samurai to be honour 8-10.

So I have a player who's mother wants him to organize some trade deals to help the family offset bad business deals in their background. The player got an amazing roll and brokered a deal with a Yasuki that was favorable (One raise)

How do I make that plot line remain relevant and interesting without saying "Go and save our wagons" every week.

>>51313648
>So I have a player who's mother wants him to organize some trade deals
Obligatory: will they still be able to make the game?

>The player got an amazing roll and brokered a deal with a Yasuki that was favorable (One raise)
>someone actually uses raises
My niggs.

>How do I make that plot line remain relevant and interesting without saying "Go and save our wagons" every week.
Get them to do other things that the merchant traders need. Establish other routes, deal with other merchant patrons plying the same routes or merchandise, clear troublesome spots of ronin/bandits/ogres/other, kick a subplot off with an assassination attempt, etc.

>>51313738
> Obligatory: will they still be able to make the game?
They will be able to make it. and yes, I was very happy when the players started choosing to make raises. I've NEVER been in a group that did before.

Also great suggestions. Thanks Anon!

>>51312747
I've had a few glimpses behind the curtains at AEG.

The first was when my playgroup got in as playtesters for Spycraft and City of Heroes CCGs. We had access to the L5R playtest section and as a result we saw the whole process of a set being made. The two standouts for L5R were the Khol Wall and Warrens of the One Tribe strongholds. The entire playtest forum was screaming that they were OP shit and should not be released into the wild. Both got released as is and totally wrecked the meta to the point where AEG had to errata the cards.

A guy in my group got a job with AEG for a few years. His stories from the inside were so bad that our group finally quit the CCG completely. Most the shit people say in threads like this are just the tip of the iceberg when it comes the metaplot meddling. The shit over Winter Court is especially bad as went out of their way marginalize any new players to that scene.

>>51315362
Really now?

Kinda disappointing to hear actually. Especially since I've been collecting long enough to have every core book edition (excluding D20. Including the limited edition 1st ed).

>>51315362
Wick probably blames it on a secret conspiracy within the company that he invented to blame for inconsistencies.
Just like all of his settings.
Or he left them railroading orders in their employment contracts.
Or both.

>>51315664
My experiences with AEG were long after Wick was given the heavy-ho. Contrary to /tg/'s belief, Wick's influence on L5R pretty much ends when the 2e RPG came out.

What's the Mirumoto gempukku? I've tried looking for it, and I can't find any information on it.

>>51315820
It's in Way of the Dragon, 1 sec.

>>51315908
... Ok, can't find it in WotD, but this is in Great Clans;

>However, Mirumoto training goes well beyond the blade and bow: it includes meditation and intensive studying of the Tao, as well as poetry and art. Indeed, some of the Mirumoto have chosen to focus their swordsmanship studies on these more esoteric domains of the spirit and the Tao rather than the straightforward practicality of the Niten method. This diverse approach is even reflected in gempukku customs: many Mirumoto dojo, in both the Niten and Taoist schools, require their students to write a poem before gempukku, usually a meditation on the student’s understanding of Shinsei’s famous answer: “Neither will I.”

>Truth's path is a sword
>The blade cuts my palms and heels
>Still I will not fall
>Hitomi's gempukku poem

>>51315957
Ballin', I picked the right skills for my rank 1 character then.

Thanks anon.

>>51315755
>My experiences with AEG were long after Wick was given the heavy-ho
Is that any way to speak of Kachiko?

Does anyone have any information about the battle madien's gempukku? Way of the Unicorn mentions that they have a special one but half the page is blacked out.

>>51318897
Have you checked Great Clans?

>>51318928
ctrl-f the entire thing. Nothing like that.

>>51319059
Seems to be something overlooked repeatedly. Still, they're intensely straightforward, strong willed, independent, and spiritually pure, so their gempukku would either focus on that or take it as a given.

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>>51318897
This is from Secrets of the Unicorn, so take it with a grain of salt large enough to choke an elephant.

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Is this a canon Crane castle or is it just pretty art? I know it isn't Kyuuden Doji, it lacks the iconic statue of a crane on a pillar rising from the sea.

>>51322903
Looks more like a palace that tries to evoke the martial role of it's owner or something.

>>51323078
I'm fairly sure this L5R card art. White haired samurai in blue kimono on the bottom left, picturesque coastal castle with a huge ass crane painted on the rock it perches on. Is this just happy coincidence or is this an actual piece of art from AEG? I just kind of want to change the name in my folder to an accurate location name if such a thing exists.

>>51322903
http://imperialassembly.com/oracle/#cardid=12258

>>51285173
with the crafty advantage, I don't have to spend any xp getting for my low skills correct?

>>51327082
No. If you have no ranks whatsoever in a relevant skill, the game treats you as if you had 1 rank in that skill. So you add 1k0 to your roll, you can make raises, and your dice can explode exactly as if you had rank 1 in that skill. It does not actually give you rank 1, however, and you will need to actually get rank 1 in order to get rank 2 or beyond as normal.

Note that rank 1 in a relevant skill and the advantage do not stack, so try to jump right past it if you want to actually advance the skill(s).

>>51327082
Eh?

You get 1 "phantom" rank in every low skill and other skill that counts as a low skill (like lore: anatomy or craft: poison).

This costs you 3xp, though Scorpion or Spider or Ninja pay 2xp, while Scorpion Ninja or Spider Ninja pay 1xp. (... you can't mechanically be a Scorpion Spider or Spider Scorpion)

>>51327215
That is not the case. The exact wording for the advantage is, "Scorpion, Spider, and ninja characters may purchase this advantage for 2 Points." Meeting any one of the requirements gets the discount meeting two or more does nothing further as it doesn't say, " Scorpion, Spider, and ninja characters may purchase this advantage for 1 point less," or something similar.

>>51327538
No, actually it was clarified in errata and multiple dev posts that discounts stack if more than one applies to you. Crab Bushi get Crab Hands for a single point.

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>>51327647
The Official 4e Errata says nothing of the sort.

>>51327775
That's because I remembered it wrong and it's literally in the core book (And also a bunch of dev posts). Sidebar, page 149. Discounts stack, but can't bring the total cost below 1.

Advantage and Disadvantage discounts are very poorly formatted.

>>51327914
So are bonus dice for things like +1k1 void point use.

Why do the heavens have to listen to the emperor?
Right like I could understand the first couple of Hantei Emperors. But when they got to be more mortal, or replaced by mortals like with Toturi... Why did they still listen and let them decide who can become fortunes?

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What are some advice, tips and 'wish i'd known's for a first time character with moderate experience in tabletop games?

Playing a Dragon Clan Shugenja, Agasha School.

>>51329537
Unless you're playing in the pre Agasha/Tamori split, or some far-flung time period in which the two shugenja families have forgotten any resulting grudges ... don't play a Dragon clan Agasha shugenja.

It's like playing a Kakita-trained Matsu, or Spider-trained Kuni.

Otherwise? Remember the differences between monks and shugenja, but don't hold fast to those differences. Monks are keepers of sacred places, temples, and shrines, while shugenja are beholden only to the kami. Monks study the Tao for riddles that may lead to enlightenment, while shugenja seek lessons on wisdom and the knowledge of man. Monks are expected to keep to their vowed oaths, while shugenja (unless they are apprenticed to a master) are free to live as they choose. (which is not to say that removing yourself from worldly concerns and remaining spiritually pure is not preferable for a shugenja - it very much is)

Otherwise, rush to get Spellcraft 5, as it improves your ability to cast all spells, and focus on your Rings.

>>51329724
We're playing 1st Edition if that helps. But thank you.

>>51328745
It is the right granted to the ruling descendant of the Sun and Moon, then later inherited with the position.

>The Fortunes are organized into a celestial hierarchy, ranging from the Sun and Moon, supreme rulers of the Heavens, down through the Seven Great Fortunes and Elemental Dragons to the hundreds of Lesser Fortunes. The founding Kami of the Great Clans also reside in Tengoku and are worshipped with the same reverence. Below the Fortunes are lesser spiritual beings, such as Ryu (elemental dragon spirits) and Fuschicho (phoenix spirits) who sometimes visit the mortal world or dwell there for extended periods of time. Below them in turn are the simple elemental spirits who inhabit all objects in the mortal world. The Rokugani revere all of these beings, from the highest to the lowest, worshipping and appeasing them as appropriate.

Everything done by the emperor or higher beings within the celestial hierarchy sets precedent or follows precedent. Consider the celestial order, followed perfectly, to be perfect, and precedent for change to beget further change. Would you desire to change anything, or seek to keep everything strictly, rigidly, precisely the same as it has been forever?

>>51329768
Rings will still be important, but I'm not well versed on the spells or skills of 1e.

Edition is important to bring up unless you're seeking most recent edition advice, or to cause misunderstandings.

Open up Way Of The Phoenix to find the sidebar on Monks and Shugenja. Page 10.

>>51329893
That's the stuff, the way the books are organized is very unorganized, makes it very hard to track down coherent information.

>>51329768
Play a Kakita Artisan instead.

>>51330810
It seems weird seeing stars on the helmet. Isn't that an almost entirely western thing?

In the 1st Edition timeline, how "odd" are the Dragon compared to everyone else, specifically the Mirumoto?

I'm trying to play an inexperienced sort of bushi who's trying to live up to the image of the Mirumoto warrior-poet, but is still willing to become worldly, to learn about the world around him, and with a specific focus on shugenja lore, painting, and poetry as his hobbies and focuses.

Where do you guys ever find games for this? All my friends always want to play D&D or mecha games. Nobody ever runs it and I'd rather be able to play it for once.

>>51331746
>In the 1st Edition timeline, how "odd" are the Dragon compared to everyone else, specifically the Mirumoto?
Pretty odd, but the Mirumoto are the most traditional family of the Dragon. They practice niten and have a lot more religious observance than other bushi families, but they're still the most traditional of the Dragon. They practice their martial arts and are concerned with things like food, trade, and general materialism concerns.

>>51331746
Just gonna throw this out there, the setting doesn't change just because of edtion, it did become more detailed as time went on, but they all have the same timeline.

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>>51333419
You're my GM, aren't you?

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>>51333419
Get thee hence, anon

>>51333419
There is a huge flavor difference between 1e and 4e. 1e's Rokugan is much "closer" to Japan than 4e's. Gender roles in 1e are much more strongly enforced and when violated they have to be violated in specific ways, like samurai-ko celibacy and making samurai-ko abandon any sense of femininity.

>>51333698
It's weird when people suggest this isn't the case. Worse when they express interest in playing/running a 1e style campaign, but then 1/2 the group balks at the idea of not being as free to act as they please - or worse, it's still an Iweko era campaign.

>>51329833
>Would you desire to change anything, or seek to keep everything strictly, rigidly, precisely the same as it has been forever?

Considering how shit it has been forever, you would be probably up to a shitton of change... unless, of course, none of that shit had any relevant consequence on you, in which case you should keep everything as-it-is before someone somewhere starts questioning your responsibility (that in turn might result in a half-crazy woman killing you and taking your place).

>>51336881
>Considering how shit it has been forever, you would be probably up to a shitton of change
Tengoku has been perfect for an eternity and a thousand years.

Hitomi, from the perspective of the Celestial Heavens, is an issue of Ningen-do not adhering to the Celestial Order perfectly. Anyone else you were referring to (bar Onnotangu) was too vague to reply to.

>>51337021
>Tengoku has been perfect for an eternity and a thousand years.

The case of Lord Moon and the Fall of the Kami might disagree with that assessment.

Also, it is easy to be "perfect" if you do nothing most of the time and push all your problems into the mortals.

>>51337324
In fairness, Rokugan excels at dealing with those problems.

Besides, Celestial Order. Some things are outside of even the hands of the gods. If they directly intervened, it'd probably cause mass destruction or panic on a wide scale.

Beyond that, the Emperor/Empress is already the representative of the will of the heavens on Rokugan.

>>51337457
>In fairness, Rokugan excels at dealing with those problems.

I dunno, but the only case when the mortals could handle something for good was the first ogre king defeating jigoku's actual champion. Other than that we have:
>The crystal superweapon almost destroying the whole world
>A spiritual apocalypse that is still not cleaned up (Shadowlands)
>The Seven Deus Ex Machinas Part 1
>The Seven Deus Ex Machinas Part 2: Electric Boogaloo
>The Age of Man (obviously not something the heavens should be proud of)
>The Bad Guys Won This One For Us War
>The Obsidian Empire

>>51337549
Eh, you're entitled to your opinion.

Besides the Destroyer War I can't say I'm unhappy with things besides Mantis favoritism.

>>51337673
I agree, but that's mostly because the Iweko dynasty overshadows what came before in terms of being a big pile of stuff I'd rather forget.

The exploding enlightenment of Toturi Naseru, Hidden Emperor, the adventures in improbability of Daigotsue (who would be the eventual master of jigoku, but "only" stole the stage of Iuchiban the incompetent back then) ... the list goes on.

>>51328745
He's like the Pope.

Are there any "normal regular" kind of onis in l5r, or are they all just ogres? On a related note, would an oni mask be actually an ogre mask in l5r?

>>51338811
What? Oni are demons.

>>51338811
I think you've got something mixed up.
Ogres are a specific mortal race of highly tainted beings. They're almost all completely mindless beasts that vaguely serve the evil (Evil as defined by being directly contrarian against that defined as good) spirit realm Jigoku by smashing everything they can. Before they were all tainted, they had an advanced, decadent civilization and their culture looked down on everyone else.

Oni are spirits from Jigoku and take whatever fucked up form most closely matches their fucked up spirit. Some of them appear to be humanoid, others do not. Many will share a basic form (For example, appearing to be a very muscular male humanoid with a huge gaping mouth where their neck, head, upper spine, and sternum should be), but some are completely unique (For example, a huge rolling bone cage jointed with fangs that rolls around and tangles itself in targets, then contracts and sucks all of their blood out). They're not mortal beings and don't really have free will either.

>>51338948
That's the Rokugan versions of Ogre and Oni, anyway.

>>51312056
Let's actually get confirmation of an RPG first.

>>51338948
>Before they were all tainted, they had an advanced, decadent civilization and their culture looked down on everyone else.

Those were the trolls. The pre-fall ogre empire was pretty much the Emerald Empire but with ogres and not humans (they even had their own Day of Thunder). Then the nezumi came and fucked their shit up.

>>51339224
Oh right.
Well, same difference in more modern eras anyway. They're both big, strong, dumb, and tainted.

>>51338848
>>51338948
Yeah, I was essentially talking about the "real life" equilavent of oni, and if such beings are ever under the category of oni in l5r.

>>51339381
No, they wouldn't fall under the category of Rokugan Oni. I think the real life equivalents would probably be from Sakkaku, like the Orochi.

>>51339381
Real life oni are like a combination of l5r oni and ogres-- big brutish guys who sometimes change their shape and aren't necessarily 100% evil 100% of the time. L5r makes capital E Evil a big part of the setting, and kind of splits actual oni lore into two component parts to avoid muddying that.

>>51332415
Here on tg for me, with one other game on another forum. My suggestion is to try running first to find other people to play with. One of them might decide to run later.

I want to cross 7th Sea with L5R, how do I match up or convert characteristic ranks between the two?

>>51285173
>2017
>Still confusing geisha with whores

>>51349190
You pretty much don't. Nothing really matches up at all. And honestly why would you? They are two very different settings.

>>51350480
Because I can, and because the two settings are lacking in their opposite numbers.

>>51351187

L5R has Merenae and Thrane. You can probably figure out how to run characters like those using the Imperial Histories books.

>>51311716
And then there was the year Ratlings were winning a bunch of story tournaments, and the year Unicorn won pretty much everything.

>>51351964
That sounds like something /tg/ would endorse, considering the board's love for making stupid and impractical shit work (in specific situations, granted, but still).

>>51352478
There were always assholes who either didn't care, got off on ruining the official fiction, or thought they were improving things by forcing their preferred faction into every damn nook and cranny they could.

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>>51352726
Ah, right.

That's why I'm honestly not for player tournaments determining things for a larger metaplot. Sure, there are people who genuinely want things to improve - I can respect that, honestly. But there's just as many people who want to shit all over everything for the lulz, and those people also tend to build broken as fuck decks/armies.

Feels bad.

>>51352769
The largest 'group' of l5r ccg players that I could tell, not including those who didn't care, was made up of people who wanted their clan to be the good guys, and for things to keep getting better for their clan. You can see this most clearly in the Dragon through HDM and the Khan's March (where admittedly AEG were ignoring tournament results), but there was a lot more.

I think giving sanctioned options for tournament results would be a good thing - as in, if a clan picks their sanctioned choice, they will get more out of it than if they try to push for anything else, and if they choose something that the ST doesn't think fits, it will be killed as part of the resulting story. Links related.

http://imperialassembly.com/oracle/#cardid=5096
http://imperialassembly.com/oracle/#cardid=5113
http://www.jadehand.com/tourneys/index2.php?year=2006#Hantei
http://www.kazenoshiro.com/2009/01/13/the-emperors-strength/

Now that pissed me off at the time, because the ST decided that Hirohisa was too honourable to do anything but remain honourable, and thus had to die because of the winner's deck construction (IIRC) being dishonourable or tainted. But. But. When you establish that as the baseline range of results (ST's suggestion, maybe a bit of something else, maybe a dead character), the closest thing you have to subverting it is maybe getting a liked character killed. Which shouldn't be outside the realm of possibility in samurai drama anyway.

One of the other things I like the concept of was tournament results with an extensive list of character choices that don't feature more than a few results per clan. That way, even if the current broken deck sweeps up every single tournament prize, they only have a few in-clan options, and the rest have to relate to other clans.

So I'm thinking of playing a philosophical, pseudo-monk ronin in an upcoming game. The idea is that he's seeking enlightenment through the way of the sword, much like a Mirumoto, but with the added emphasis on dueling, given its clear connection with a calm analytical mind, meditation and the Void. So basically, dueling autism until enlightenment.

The question is how far I could take it without just going full-on Mary Sue with it. Like, are there Monks with daisho? Or samurai who are monks in all but name (ascetic, shaved head, new name, all that jazz). Should I just create a Dragon or Crane bushi who retired to the Temple of Osano-Wo or something? I know the Dragon have the Taoist swordsmen and there's the Zen Archery advanced path, so there's some level of precedent there. Also, the Hooded Ronin who was more or less ronin and monk simultaneously.

>>51353164
I will admit I'm not overly familiar with every tournament result, though I am aware that more than once, AEG had twisted the results of a tournament to make things go their way - like Toturi becoming the Emperor, as one example I can think of.

I can see how it'd work, but unless there are rules for it - like that sanctioned option or some other option - I can see it being exploited massively to fuck with the setting.

Then again, I'm a cynic who needs to remember not every tabletop gamer is someone from /tg/ who wants to reinvent the wheel, or just wants to shit up a setting out of some smug sense of self-satisfaction.

I feel like I'm too bitter.

>>51339023

What are the chances of mechanical overhaul that includes custom dice.

>>51353164
And that's the problem. As someone who comes over from BattleTech, I can relate to factionalism, because over there it's extreme. You have more than three decades of separating the player base into factions they identify extremely strongly with. You should see some of the forum posts from people who had their factions fucked over, whether real or imagined. People genuinely buy into the stuff that's explicitly told from their faction's point of view, even if every single other source describes them as horrible madmen who broke treaties and murdered millions, to the point they will actually try to argue these fictional people were not the bad guys at that specific point in time despite the fact that was intended by the people who wrote the fiction. It takes a very specific person to look at Romano Liao and try to argue that the woman who is literally described as insane and murderous for no goddamn reason by her own subjects is not a crazy mass-murderer.

And that's why you kind of need to have someone who can take a step back and go "You know, other people want to enjoy this franchise too, and we can't have one fanboy and/or troll fuck it up for everyone else" and maintain some level of "objectivity" (which is a poor choice of words since it's still based on opinions and personal interpretation, but it's the best I could come up with).

Because fuck it, some stuff is just plain retarded and you need to reign it in and have the fluff tell a cohesive and logical story. The Crab deciding the Hantei are weak and according to an interpretation of Hida's words they no longer need to serve? I can see that. High-ranking Crab getting Tainted and accepting otherwise unacceptable methods to achieve that goal? Sure, possibly. The Crab officially allying with the Shadowlands and having named Oni in their ranks? Yeah, not seeing that happening ever.

>>51353189
>Like, are there Monks with daisho?
http://imperialassembly.com/oracle/#cardid=5778

If you're not part of a tattooed order or an Asako henshin, then there's no chance you're considered a samurai and a monk. Brotherhood? You can still carry a daisho if you just don't give a damn (Ginawa picked up a sword once after retiring, with the intent of getting killed or stopping someone with a bloodsword, IIRC), but people who care more about what you did than who did it will lose their shit.

>Should I just create a Dragon or Crane bushi who retired to the Temple of Osano-Wo or something?
Not if you ever want to touch a sword again. They're quite strict and insular, as orders go, and have a 10 year initiation period. You will be dead or thoroughly indoctrinated by the time they're done.

>Also, the Hooded Ronin who was more or less ronin and monk simultaneously.
Major characters are generally poor form to point to, especially when their behaviour pass consists of things like "I'm a fricken daimyo", or "I'm the descendent of Shinsei."

> know the Dragon have the Taoist swordsmen and there's the Zen Archery advanced path, so there's some level of precedent there.
If you want to be an ascetic samurai instead of a tattooed monk with a daisho who claims noble birth, it's easier.

>>51353368
>If you want to be an ascetic samurai instead of a tattooed monk with a daisho who claims noble birth, it's easier.
Well, that was the initial idea. I'm just not super familiar with the intricacies of the setting, so it was mainly a way to gauge where I should be going with the idea. So yeah, ascetic ronin with a penchant for meditation and theology it is, then. Maybe some Brotherhood allies or something as well.

>>51353339
>that's why you kind of need to have someone who can take a step back and go "You know, other people want to enjoy this franchise too, and we can't have one fanboy and/or troll fuck it up for everyone else" and maintain some level of "objectivity" (which is a poor choice of words since it's still based on opinions and personal interpretation, but it's the best I could come up with).

People had issues with the way L5R factions seemed absolutely stable and indestructible, too. AEG really couldn't properly kill off a faction without players walking away from the game. (still happened) Which is why I think AEG massaged results so the Spider ended up with the Race For The Throne 'clan disbanded' result. Even that didn't please many, as the Spider were still around / rebuilding, and from the outside it looked like they lost nothing in a result that would seriously impact any other clan. (imagine the shitstorm if that had been any other clan)

The clans had to be able to be hit, be seen to suffer for it, and (simultaneously not) have that affect their ability to make a comeback or keep going.

>>51353663
I wholly agree. Being able to take losses and significant setbacks is part of telling a good story. But it has to make sense. You can't have a Crab win and go "Crane are all pansies, so they can get fucked" for no particular reason.

Which is even the more reason to take it out of player hands, or at the very least have player wishes be significantly steered by a writing team who know what the fuck they're doing. To take it back to my previous BattleTech example, while there's a lot of bitterness in the fanbase about story decisions, and the story often becomes ridiculous and/or seems to heavily favor a specific faction to Spiritual Liege levels, at least they're not afraid to go "Yeah, this group? They're fucking gone now. Nuked out of existence."

>>51353819
Not that anon, but while I see where you're coming from, I'm not sure how the Great Clans could take hits without people going "X clan sucks dick, just kill them already." Maybe it's just me, but I keep seeing people who, if they see a faction or a character be incompetent ONCE, suddenly that means they're always a failure, all the things they've done are failures, etc.

Like in this general when it comes to any of the Emperor's dynasties, particularly the Iweko.

>>51353952
I think there's a way to do it. For example, Hiruma lands getting fucked right out of existence. The key is to do enough that it shakes things up and makes it believable, but not enough that you disenfranchise the fanbase.

I've said it before, but the biggest problem with the Rokugan setting is that it wants to be Sengoku and Edo era at the same time, while ignoring why those eras existed in Japan to begin with. Toturi's reign would be perfect to transition to a more Edo-inspired setting since the Clan Wars era was somewhat similar to the Sengoku Jidai. But the fact the form of government stays largely static despite all these supposedly heaving changes is really jarring, even if you try to explain it with the Celestial Heavens or whatnot, particularly once you realize that despite the literal divine mandate, the Hantei still got fucked up and we got Imperial dynasties that weren't divinely endorsed. So apparently the Celestial Heavens aren't that particular in enforcing the social structure of Rokugan.

>>51309078
I dunno why this gets posted so much, it's fairly uninspired.

>>51354569
>But the fact the form of government stays largely static despite all these supposedly heaving changes is really jarring
The Toturi dynasty was plagued by the Gozoku in its later years. It's one of the reasons given that Naseru, despite being an unparalleled courtier, was so ineffective. I like to imagine they kept replacing his wife with sterile decoys every time he wanted an heir, too. Because seriously, none of the four winds knocked anyone up, and I can suspend belief for fantasy samurai, but that's too much.

>we got Imperial dynasties that weren't divinely endorsed
That's not true. Each dynasty has received some form of endorsement from the Celestial Heavens.

>>51353952
>Like in this general when it comes to any of the Emperor's dynasties, particularly the Iweko.
I think that's more to do with people looking for ways to shit on the Iweko and Toturi, but the story writers used the Iweko dynasty to usher in the Spider from the Shadowlands to the Imperial Throne. It's hard to say she did sitting on the throne right.

>>51353819
>You can't have a Crab win and go "Crane are all pansies, so they can get fucked" for no particular reason.
Or you can, but to achieve anything but bragging and bluster the Crab need continuing tournament results dedicated to that result. While they're trying to push the clan into fucking the pansy Cranes, they're not pushing them to support the butt buddy Scorpions, or trading with their other pincer friends the Mantis.

>>51353272
Higher than most people would like.

Maybe this is retarded, but the blurb on dual wielding in the core rulebook is pretty vague. What does dual wielding actually do apart from the extra armor TN? Because not only does +1-5 armor seem pretty useless, but the penalties to attack rolls seem to indicate that at some point you would want to attack with your off-hand, doubly so for Mirumoto bushi even though it seems like dual-wielding doesn't confer any additional attacks and you therefore would have no reason to use the objectively inferior wakizashi instead of the katana.

Does dual-wielding give you an attack with each hand, or does it just add a bit to your armor TN?

>>51355946
Mechanical overhaul would be great, because to be frank the roll and keep systems has had inherent flaws that haven't really been fixed in any edition.

Custom dice is bullshit, though.

>>51355959
>What does dual wielding actually do apart from the extra armor TN?
It gives you penalties.

>the penalties to attack rolls seem to indicate that at some point you would want to attack with your off-hand
No, it indicates you haven't learned to attack while dual wielding.

>This is not particularly common in Rokugan, as the vast majority of bushi use the katana, which is traditionally wielded in both hands.

>>51355959
Mirumoto are the only family that extensively learns how to duel wield with the katana and wakizashi.

>>51355979
Okay, so dual-wielding is largely useless unless you're Tessen? Because even Mirumoto seem like they get very little benefit out of it. At least the Tessen can get a solid armor buff early on.

>>51356016
What?

Mirumoto get a +5 TN to their armor when they duel wield, and it's the reason they can make more than one attack at higher ranks, along with no penalties to dual wielding off the bat.

>>51355959
>Because not only does +1-5 armor seem pretty useless
I wouldn't say it's that little, particularly combined with the school bonuses or War Fan skill masteries, which can push it up to 7-10. Against an evenly matched attacker, a difference of 5 in TN can easily push it past the "more/less likely than not" breakpoint on the probability curve. The Rank 5 Mirumoto ability for dual-wielding is also pretty rad.

And I guess with the wakizashi in the off-hand you always have a single ranged attack available should you need it in a pinch.

>>51356031
I don't have the book handy right now, but I remembered their Rank 1 technique as just adding School Rank to their armor TN on top of the insight rank and removing attack penalties. Compared to, say, Akodo buffs that seems pretty ass. Maybe I just didn't remember they got a flat +5 on top of that, which makes it a bit better. Still seems kind of underwhelming when dudes like the Hiruma and Usagi can buff their armor way higher while getting better offensive buffs.

>>51356040
For War Fans you'd need to be really high ranked for it to be a significant difference outside of Tessen, though. +1 per insight rank isn't huge, and the mastery bonuses are relatively paltry compared to the penalties you'll take to your main hand. By the time you're liable to see much of that, you're likely toward the tail end of your career anyway.

>>51355966
Yeah, there's a bunch of things that could stand to be overhauled. Like Simple-attack-actions, and non-katana weapons being largely shit or highly situational.

>>51356016
>>51356080
Tessen is completely fucking broken, though. An armor bonus dependent on skill ranks rather than insight that doesn't require defense/full defense. Within a few sessions you can have a dude with +13 armor TN on top of insight/armor/reflexes. And it'll cost him so little experience he'll probably be good at a lot of other stuff too.

Enjoy balancing those encounters.

>>51356016
>Okay, so dual-wielding is largely useless unless you're Tessen?
The Tessen are fairly ass, too. ATN bonuses are good, but they're outpaced by equivalent increases to attack rolls.

>>51356173
I think the larger issue is that the roll-keep system doesn't have a lot of granularity when it comes to differentiating between characters. Hence the problems previous editions had of skill ranks being useless compared to attributes, which led to the introduction of mastery abilities, which were mostly useless too. Or weapons being useless because more kept dice = better in 90% of cases. Or the idiocy of shugenja being able to cast spells in defense stance that meant they can just focus on being better tanks than most bushi, which seems kind of dumb. Or the fact that attack and defense have a really hard time keeping pace in general.

>>51356229
OTOH, that character is a *ronin*, has left their best technique options behind to be good with war fans, and now has four ranks of ass to look forward to. Context matters.

... I still remember the first time I looked at the rank 1 ronin techniques in the core book, and thought you were supposed to make a powerful (if bland) school out of them.

>>51356303
Yeah, that's a fair point. In an ideal world you'd have a meaningful difference between a high-pool/low-keep and a low-pool/high-keep roll, and unique reasons to go for either (or alternatively an analogue dynamic between skills/traits). But since rolls are based on a direct higher-is-always-better goal, that doesn't really work out too well, since there's always a mathematically ideal combination that tends to lean heavily to the keep side of things.

And on a separate note, it's also not a particularly intuitive system. Without investing a fair bit of time into it, it's difficult for a player to gauge just how much of a difference you have between bonuses like e.g. +3k0 vs. +1k1.

>>51356031
You're thinking of 1e. 4e adds School+Insight Rank.

>>51357497
The 4e Mirumoto Bushi Rank 1 Technique only adds School Rank, because everyone who dual-wields adds Insight Rank-- not that many people would dual wield in the first place, but even so.

>>51354942

John Wick has to keep himself entertained somehow.

>>51353952
>>51354958

The Toturi weren't that bad in hindsight.

But I can't think of anything really worthwhile about the Iwekos. Iweko I herself is infuriating because she's constantly portrayed as wise and such, despite most of her wisdom being dedicated towards fixing problems she herself created.

>>51358837
I mean, that's a good quality in a ruler - you fuck up, you clean up your messes.

Besides, you can't really blame the Destroyer War and it's consequences on her - that's all Kali-Ma.

>>51359000

No but I will blame her for everything she did with the Spider. I also hesitate to dignify "making a massive problem and then giving a way for your successor to flee from your mistake" really "cleaning up her mess."

>>51363121
She wasn't put in a particularly enviable position - either she made peace with Daigotsu, or he pulled a Mantis and fucked everything for everyone at a time when the empire was weak enough to fuck.

>>51363472
And as a reminder, she was put into that position because
>The Crab failed to defend the wall
>The Lion failed to assemble the required military force
>The Scorpion failed... well, at everything and then some
>The Crane... I guess they were okay this time: useless as ever but at least not harmfully so

Like, Iweko most likely blessed her luck that the Phoenix didn't start practicing Maho out of nowhere and actually did some heavy lifting.

>>51363944
>Like, Iweko most likely blessed her luck that the Phoenix didn't start practicing Maho out of nowhere and actually did some heavy lifting.

Wasn't it the Phoenix in the Chibi Thunders who opened Fu Leng's black scroll? Keeping up tradition is important as you well know.

>>51363944
Not for lack of trying, I'm sure. They'd love to have willingly hosted a destroyer demon or two in their very souls in exchange for the insultingly small amount of practical knowledge they could gain from such an arrangement.

>>51363961

That's true, but they were surprisingly chill during the Destroyer War and the War of Dark Fire.

>>51364375

Actually, the Phoenix was, like, "LOLNOPE" with the Destroyers and they helped with pure magic rather than the dark arts. This was likely the most unrealistic part of the whole arc tho.

>>51364492
>Actually, the Phoenix was, like, "LOLNOPE" with the Destroyers and they helped with pure magic rather than the dark arts.
That's their official stance on Maho and Oni, and we all know how that turns out every single time a new graduating Isawa class gets out into the world.

>>51293001
Get Reflexes 5.

>>51313648
What clan & school is your player?

>>51364640
They are like small children. You tell them not to do something and they jump right into doing it.

I recently started running a game and three sessions in I tempted each of the players, a Hida Bushi, a Bayushi Bushi, and Isawa Void Shugenja. Can you guess which one is dabbling in maho while the other two pretty much told the bad shit to fuck off? That's right the Isawa Void Shugenja. He completely bought all the kansen's lies about being a Void kami and he's the only one special enough to be able to see him. He hasn't actually cast any of the maho yet, which the "Void kami" told him were ancient spells invented by the Isawa that used "Pure Blood Magic," but it is only a matter of time. The worst is one of the spells taints both him and his target, which is going to be hilarious when he starts spreading the taint.

>>51366923
Well, pure blood magic actually is a thing. In fact, it was the only kind of magic known to shugenja well into the war with Fu Leng.
But an Isawa should know that Isawa himself refined that process into the current method, then disseminated it among all shugenja, and that actually using those ancient blood spells fell to the wayside for a very good reason. Namely that blood for magic also attracts Kansen and those are much more common after the shadowlands became a thing.
But hey, Isawa gonna Isawa.

>>51367011
I know that. All the best lies contain a kernel of truth to them. I am just amazed he bit with out an ounce of hesitation. I think he hasn't cast them yet because in the most recent session he didn't cast a single spell period.

>>51367177
Not that anon, but never underestimate a Phoenix's ability to fuck up royally for the sake of magic.

>>51367011
>Namely that blood for magic also attracts Kansen and those are much more common after the shadowlands became a thing.
That only became a thing after Fu Leng cursed it and drive the kansen to follow those who use it.

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>>51368301
Praise be

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Mantis bump!

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So I'm doing some homebrew setting streamlining for my gaming group, and I'm thinking about adding the Hattori as a Scorpion Clan family. How good is this idea? To not compromise the Shosuro, I would make the Hattori a bushi family with an emphasis on dirty fighting and shock infantry tactics - they would be a lot like the Matsu but with more snek and less angry bits.

Sounds good? Or too obvious?

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>>51375190
That already fills a role some within the Bayushi do right now, as well as the bushi of the Soshi family since their entire stereotype when they aren't shugenja is 'cultured thug'. And even then some of the shugenja go in for that. What can you do to differentiate the Hattori from that and add flavor?

Not saying don't do it, but saying think about ways to make them stand out.

So is the Wall pretty much a couple of Gaijin end up on the great wall during a 20 goblin winter?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQQzYnwRufw

>>51376981
Soshi vacillate between cultured thug and "stop in the name of the law"; their magistrates are no joke.

>>51377200
Their magistrates are also a bit willing to be like the thug cop type, look at their mechanics. This is just a universe where beating a suspect up because you're a loose cannon cop on the edge is only frowned on if they're samurai AND you lack a signed order of appearance.

>>51377259
It's true that Soshi magistrates are willing to get thuggish in their methods, but it's also pretty rare for them to be corrupt. Like, they're willing to look the other way on the orders of a Scorpion higher up, but that's because Loyalty to the clan comes first-- Heavens help you if you try to, say, bribe them into ignoring a crime.

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>>51376981
>What can you do to differentiate the Hattori from that and add flavor?

The Hattori would be straight-out soldiers and not enforcers/"cultured thugs". They are the grunts of the clan who wreck face on the battlefield while the courtiers and the ninja win the war. Again, imagine the Matsu but with a Scorpion Clan filter applied to their archetype - now, that would be the Rokugan!Hattori.

>>51377574
That's still the Bayushi who have always been the bulk of the clan's armies as well as the leaders.

>>51377591

Yeah, and it is a running theme that the Bayushi are pretty bad at playing soldier - well, the Hattori wouldn't be. Also, if the Hattori really becomes a family, then the Bayushi will obviously shed this aspect and go full-on "intellectual".

>>51378212
>and it is a running theme that the Bayushi are pretty bad at playing soldier -
Harsh. Their army, even without ninja tricks, is still a full size one unlike some other clans we can mention and well drilled and trained.

Also, just remember the Akodo aren't all commanders either. They're a family of thousands and the majority are but simple warriors.

Why does FFG say NOTHING MORE! after over a year?

>>51378676
Gencon 2017 will be the big LCG announcement. Expect maybe hints about the RPG to come only after that.

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>>51380620

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>>51380878
Tell that to Shiba Toriiko.

>>51381019
Weird-ass logic is still logic. If you really think that using your troops as a living wall will prevent two armies to do battle, then the only thing you should be concerned about is to see your master-plan through. I know at least one Lion and one Crane who fell for this rather silly ploy.

And for the final advice: remember that failure is not dishonorable. Feeling regret over your failure is.

>>51378212
Don't discount the Bayushi as soldiers. Their heavy line troops are at least on par with the Shiba, Mirumoto, and Daidoji.

>>51381295
Probably not the Daidoji, actually. But still. Third rate bushi armies are what most non-martial clans have.

>>51381277
>And for the final advice: remember that failure is not dishonorable. Feeling regret over your failure is.
Though failure is inglorious. I remember reading in one of the Elemental books they point out that in Rokugan is it better to admit you aren't good enough than to publicly shame yourself trying inadequately at something.

It may have been about conceding a duel in the assessment stage in Book of Air maybe?

>>51381533
Yes, backing down from a duel that you know you'll lose is not considered dishonorable. It shows a respectable level of self-awareness.
Of course, you do have to be careful to not appear to be throwing it on purpose. And backing down from a high-stakes duel is just not done, even if you're hilariously outskilled.

On a related note, demonstrating knowledge of a topic is often seen as implying that you have the practical ability to use it. Armchair duelists are going to be challenged eventually just because someone assumes they can live up to the talk.

>>51381668
>On a related note, demonstrating knowledge of a topic is often seen as implying that you have the practical ability to use it. Armchair duelists are going to be challenged eventually just because someone assumes they can live up to the talk.

This is also why they assume anyone who can do something can teach something. Only the Dragon are really beginning to get that the ability to teach effectively is a separate skill from being able to do a thing.

But the thing I was mentioning wasn't just duels, but also referring to any public display of skills or contests. Might still have been that segment but that mentality extends everywhere until the stakes get so high there's no backing down.

>>51381809
It's also part of why Crab get so much shit-- talking knowledgeably about the Shadowlands and maho implies to polite society that you are a tainted blood-sorcerer.

>>51381320
The Disruption armies aren't bad; they just aren't the best, nor do they want the other clans to see them as a worthy target for a fight. A few notable losses when it furthers the Scorpion cause keeps the charade going.

>>51382484
I love Rokugani circular logic traps. It is a great way to make otherwise nice NPCs total assholes sometimes.

>>51383425
It certainly works out for them every single time the Lion decide to invade for fun.
Bog them down with an actual army until they lose their momentum, then hit them with sneaky totally-not-ninja tactics until the courtiers make them leave or the Lion bring up another army to force their way through. In which case, the standard is to retreat until you can break their momentum and start over from step two.

>>51285173
My GM has us making starting characters for the Topaz Tournament. I would like to win. Any advice? Builds (I know optimization is a dirty word, but winning is oh so sweet), manuvers, weapons... anything I can do? I'd prefer not to leave the gates a hideous amalgamation of terrible rules text, but if that's what I have to do...

>>51388822
If clan doesn't particularly matter, I was planning on making a Toku bushi.

>>51388822
The winner of the iaijutsu tournament almost invariably wins the championship, so focus on getting Air and Iaijutsu up. Void too, if you can afford it. You also need to actually qualify for the tournament to be able to duel, so put at least a point into the relevant skills for the challenges, and Agility. Agility is more important than Void if you want to be a functional fighter after the championship is over, but if it's just duelling cheese you want for the sake of winning, it's less essential, since the tournament is all first-strike.

Empire Rests on it's Edge is a good kata to grab, too, if you have spare points.

>>51389007
Can Toku iaijutsu duel worth a damn, or do the Kakita's ridiculous Iaijutsu benefits make it difficult?

>>51389007
More advice: you want to load up on the full ten points of disadvantages, but avoid stuff that will impede you during the tournament; things like Haunted or Cursed by the Spirit Realms are pretty good for this. Advantage-wise, a rank of Lucky goes a long, long way-- and more ranks go even farther, if you can afford them. They're undercosted for the benefit they give you.

Family-wise, it's a good idea to get a family and school that give you Traits you want for your build, so you can save xp for Void or duelling-related advantages and skills-- maybe an ancestor, if you're a Dragon or Crane, or if another clan has a duelling related ancestor you can find.

Finally, this level of charop is silly and you should feel dirty for contemplating it.

>>51389115
I feel dirty anyways. I think I'm going to play a Toku bushi and take some luck -- My GM suggested I do so if I was going to play Toku. I'll take a look at disadvantages here as well.

>>51389077
>>51389138
With the right Traits and Skills, anyone can duel-- Techniques are generally a minor bonus that might tip the scales between otherwise even opponents, rather than the be-all and end-all. That said, Toku Bushi is not really a duelling school, though it is pretty good as bushi schools go, especially for a minor clan. You get some bonuses that can be applied to duelling, but nobody you would duel at Rank 1 in the Topaz Championship iis going to trigger your first technique to-hit bonus, and you don't have access to your Rank 2 yet anyway-- which would only trigger on a Rank 3 or higher duellist anyway, which wouldn't be at the tournament even if you had the technique by then.

>>51389205
>With the right Traits and Skills, anyone can duel-- Techniques are generally a minor bonus that might tip the scales between otherwise even opponents, rather than the be-all and end-all. That said, Toku Bushi is not really a duelling school, though it is pretty good as bushi schools go, especially for a minor clan. You get some bonuses that can be applied to duelling, but nobody you would duel at Rank 1 in the Topaz Championship iis going to trigger your first technique to-hit bonus, and you don't have access to your Rank 2 yet anyway-- which would only trigger on a Rank 3 or higher duellist anyway, which wouldn't be at the tournament even if you had the technique by then.
Asking around, I've heard that trying to win the Topaz championship is itself somewhat of a bad idea, since you draw so much attention by doing so. Better to do what Toku himself did, and come in second a bunch of times.

>>51389279
>and come in second a bunch of times.
Given that it is a gempukku ceremony too, you really only get one stab at it. Or do you mean in events?

>>51389279
I mean, the attention is not all bad. It's a fast track to getting a good appointment somewhere, and you become eligible bachelor no. 1 for your generation, or close to it. There's a lot of glory involved, both personally, and for your Clan and Family.

You can also take a really nice Alternate Path if you win, which is often very worth it.

>Better to do what Toku himself did, and come in second a bunch of times.
This is also not something you can actually do; the Topaz Championship is an elaborate gemppukku ceremony for each year's graduating class. You can't actually compete more than once, and you can only compete the year you pass your gemppukku.

>>51389007
My biggest regret in L5R will always be throwing a wrestling match as a Crab bushi against a physically weaker character because of the Lecherous trait.

I won the iaijutsu tournament but lost by one point because of that.

>>51389342
In a number of events, I mean. Toku notably won no event but was the runner up to almost all the others.

>>51389342
>You can also take a really nice Alternate Path if you win, which is often very worth it.
Topaz Champion isn't even an alternative I think. Its like Emerald Champion, it is essentially giving you a double rank rather than an alternate.

>>51389364
Rough. Did you just barely score any points in the other events? In my experience, it kind of takes a perfect storm for the iaijutsu winner to not take the whole thing. You have to do badly enough that the huge point-boost doesn't put you over the top, but not so badly you don't get to compete, and then someone else has to do really, really well in everything else for your huge bonus to not overcome their score.

>>51389342
FWIW since non-imperial clans don't get discounts on advantages, my GM has given me a -1 point discount on Luck, since my character is a child of Toku himself. (We're playing before the huge Shadow metaplot boondangle where he dies.)

>>51389378
Topaz Championship doesn't keep you from also getting the Technique it "replaces", but it does still count as Alternate Path, which means it uses up your alt-path-as-school-rank slot; if you get a second alt path later in your career, your School Rank won't go to the full five. That's not really a concern fr schools that don't have techniques where that's a variable, but for a shugenja or a bunch of courtiers and bushi, it can be a significant difference.

>>51389433
I assume Toku bushi doesn't have such a situation?

>>51389450
Toku Bushi does actually use School Rank to calculate part of your Rank 1 technique, but as a Minor Clan your options for other Alternate Paths are really, really limited, so the odds of you picking up a second one are low, and getting Topaz Champion is probably fine.

And even if you did have to top out at School Rank 4 instead of 5, it's not like it would be the end of the world. You're just making a tradeoff, and have to decide which potential benefit you would rather have.

>>51389404
Like I said, Lucky is already undercosted. Getting a discount on top of that is probably excessive.

>>51389478
>ou're just making a tradeoff, and have to decide which potential benefit you would rather have.
And let's be clear here to everyone: Just about nothing is better than the Topaz Champion technique, especially with stuff like keying off school rank. You won't lose access to some of your best abilities with this of your core school and instead get amazing Void shenanigans.

>>51389400
The winner had 13.

I had 12.

I did get special recognition from the Crab for winning the iaijutsu tournament, however, and was awarded with a Kaiu blade. The only events I remember losing were an Archery contest against a Utaku, and the wrestling match.

Somehow I won in poetry, legalism, and consistently won other athletic events. Beat a Kakita in the tournament too (I got lucky).

Basically if I didn't lose archery and threw the wrestling match for "political favors," I think I'd have stood a good chance at being Champion.

Still, in-character development happened.

I'm running a game soon, and I'm finding myself short on ideas for court intrigue and the like. Do you guys have any potential ideas for plot hooks or conflicts that I can set my players against that aren't just going to immediately boil down into fights?

>>51389509
Yeah, I would probably go for it every time. But it's a decision you should think about for at least a second, rather than getting surprised later when you can't learn any new spells this Rank or whatever.

>>51389543
oh jesus, two other players have declared crane duelist and lion bushi. I might need to cheese my way outta this one.

>>51389692
Just remember: Desire and Regret are both sins. Don't get too attached to the idea of winning.

>>51389692
Any suggestions as to what to do in particular?

>>51389817
Oh, that's REAL reassuring. Our Crane seems just as intent on winning, threatening to shift Void and Iaijutsu. Guess I ought to just write it off, or try to force him into a corner where he has to drop out? I don't know, is there anything I can do at this point?

>>51389844
Go duellist Hoshi samurai monk. Kirin Tattoo and Sacred Weapon (Dragon daisho) or Inheritance: Daisho. Void 4 out of the gate, best version of Luck, and a daisho.

Inheritance gives +1k1 when using the item outside of a skirmish, while Heart Of Vengeance gives another +1k1 vs a particular clan. (like Crane)

>>51389692
I guess the question here is: why do you want to win?

Is it to rub it in the faces of other players? Is it part of a larger plot for your character? Is it just for dick stroking to say you did it?

>>51389892
Out of curiosity, what happens if a Kharmic Strike occurs in the final Iaijutsu roll-off? Do both become the joint Topaz Champion?

>>51390012
Because I think it'd be a good start for a character, it'd make daddy (Toku) proud, it seems like a solid boost to both prestige and power, and because Toku Bushi don't get many other options for alternate paths. Plus, I figure if I'm competing, I'd like to win.

>>51390052
The topaz championship involves judges, who are human, will have preferences, and may judge towards their own favouritism. There's very little chance they won't be able to reach a conclusion, no matter how precisely and obviously tied the results are.

>>51390189
Well, Toku is both my charackter and the head judge. That said, if he rules in my character's favor, my character would probably forfeit.

>>51390244
My character's FATHER. Fuck I'm tired.

>>51389892
In 4e the Dragon Sacred Weapon isn't actually any good for dueling. Are you thinking of an older edition?

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Spot everything dishonorable in this picture. First person to get five accurate pings on the Honor table gets a shiny koku

>>51396175
Samurai is actually maho-tsukai. Geisha is actually Kolat. Boatman is actually Shosuro Infiltrator in disguise. Shadows are actually full of Goju ninjas. Flower is actually a flower, but maho samurai stole it to give to Kolat Gesisha in exchange for her help murdering Shosuro Boatman who suspects maho samurai is in fact a maho-tsukai.

>>51396175
>spot dishonorable things on the pic
>there are no samurai on the pic

Eh? Commoners shouldn't concern themselves with honor.

>>51396441
>Left hand having the gall to romance a lady of some wealth

Look either he's a samurai who checked his blades at the door of the Floating World or we're in a mess of peasant romantic and merchant drama. Do you want that?

>>51396578

The scene is definitely not at a Floating World. It is way too unpopulated for that. The girl also can't be a geisha because she has no facepaint and her hair is in a mundane bum - if we assume she is off-time then we still can't be around a Floating World because the geisha are not actually living there. The due, on the other hand, has plain clothes and no mons - so he can't be a samurai even if we assume that he left his swords at the polisher.

So it is a mess of peasant romance and merchant drama.

>>51396830
>The girl also can't be a geisha because she has no facepaint and her hair is in a mundane bum
You know that's only the apprentice geisha right? Full ones can do whatever they want.

>>51396873
Full-time geisha only lack the facepaint. The shimada hairstyle is up for everyone.

>>51396991
I recall in Rokugan there's a bit more largesse on that point. Probably because some dev didn't like the limitation on hair for card art or something way back when. I'll see if I can find a cite or if I'm just hallucinating though.

>>51394003
Inheritance OR Sacred Weapon.

The latter is a 3xp way to get a daisho that you don't otherwise have.

>>51399344
Everyone has a daisho as the symbol of being a samurai, but non-bushi leave the katana at home by default. Actually making someone spend mechanical points to get the katana that they by rights own is just asinine.

>>51399380
Monks do not, unless you choose to make them different.

>>51399495
Well, the build being discussed here is a "Hoshi samurai monk" in the context of a competition in which all competitors are strictly samurai who have either only recently passed their gempukku or who are eligible to immediately pass their gempukku (Depending on exact source, since some sources say the Topaz Championship itself counts as a gempukku ceremony as long as you score a few points, while other sources say that it's just a ceremony for newly minted post-gempukku samurai).

>>51399569
Which is to say that any character being discussed in this context has to be a samurai, which means they own a full daisho including the katana.

>>51399569
I think it depends on clan and possibly individual school. Some accept the tournament itself as proof enough of adult competence, while others still require the student complete the normal gempukku test for their school regardless of the championship.

>>51399380
>Everyone has a daisho as the symbol of being a samurai, but non-bushi leave the katana at home by default
Everyone has a wakizashi, at least. Not everyone has a katana.

>>51399569
You do you. If it bothers your booty to consider spending xp for a daisho, definitely don't go back to 1e and look up the 'Noble Birth' advantage in Way Of The Dragon, page 40.

>some sources say the Topaz Championship itself counts as a gempukku ceremony as long as you score a few points
I believe you mean it counts as a gempukku ceremony, and you will pass so long as you score points.

> in the context of a competition in which all competitors are strictly samurai
And tattooed (wo)men. Whom you cannot ask questions of their past, without breaking rules of etiquette. They might be former peasants, they might be children of samurai, they might be monks born of monks.

>INHERITANCE [MATERIAL] (5 POINTS)
>When you received your gempukku ceremony, your family honored you with an heirloom of your ancestors.
>SACRED WEAPON [MATERIAL] (3 POINTS)
>Dragon: Twin Sister Blades Daisho; +5 to the TN of all Disarm Maneuvers against you
I don't see a problem here.

>>51399762
>Everyone has a wakizashi, at least. Not everyone has a katana.
No, everyone has a katana. If you don't have it in your starting outfit it is assumed to be left at home because you're in a role that one normally has a yojimbo in or at least otherwise doesn't need to fight.

If your GM isn't a dick they'll let a courtier or shugenja take a daisho if they're clear on the fact this means you're challenge bait for duels now.

>>51399815
>No, everyone has a katana. If you don't have it in your starting outfit it is assumed to be left at home
Quote it.

>>51399762
An Ise Zume who is in the Topaz Championship is going to be considered a Samurai by literally everyone in Rokugan except for certain Dragons. They are legally the "family" of Togashi. They are samurai whether they acknowledge it or not.

>>51399815
(here's the wiki, in case you got nothing else)
>The ceremony differed from clan to clan but there were some common elements. The student was required by his sensei to demonstrate that he had learned the techniques and skills taught by his school by successfully completing tests of these skills, called trials. If he successfully completed the trials the student was proclaimed an adult. He chose his adult name and received his first daisho or, in the case of non-bushi samurai, his wakizashi.

>>51399837
Of course they are. No one can say or ask anything different without being rude. That doesn't mean every Togashi has a daisho.

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>>51399837
>>51399863

>>51399880
And if they show up to the Topaz Championship without a daisho, they're going to be laughed out of the venue. Because it's not run by Dragons who care about that distinction. You showed up to a samurai competition without the most basic trappings of a samurai or the one thing you need to perform the most important part of the ceremony.

>The order of the Togashi monks, of course, has no gempukku ceremony. They instead require applicants to achieve a certain state of mind before accepting them fully into their ranks. This spiritual and emotional journey is represented physically by the individual’s arduous climb to reach Kyuden Togashi.

>>51399931
You don't show up at the Topaz Championship with a daisho. You're given a daisho on completing your gempukku.

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>>51399886
Don't be a soulless freak. Leave your soul at home if you must.

>>51400012
Given the daisho that you bring with you to the tournament to compete with.
They don't just give you a random daisho upon gempukku. It's a specific set that ideally has a grandparent's katana as part of it, or might have been made specifically for you at some point. It's not a random off the shelf set that the Crane had lying around.

>>51400013
See >>51399970. The Togashi do not give you a daisho in your gempukku ceremony. They do not even hold a gempukku ceremony. To enter into the Topaz Championship and receive your daisho, it would necessarily come from another source. Like some kind of heirloom or a symbolic weapon forged by a master smith of your clan ...

>>51400135
Again, to show up to the Topaz championship without one is not going to be allowed. They won't give you a rental to duel with.

>>51400173
>Like some kind of heirloom or a symbolic weapon forged by a master smith of your clan ...

>>51403350
I don't know, it doesn't seem practical to ride around on a tuna. You're bound to get wet, and you'll smell like fish.

>>51404423
My nigga.