Pathfinder General /pfg/

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>Want to DM a game
>No one would like my house rules
>No one would like my setting
>Give up

>>51256083

Post it. You wont.

Hello /pfg/, which 1pp class is the best for TWF?

>>51256156

Slayer

>>51256156

Unchained Barb, Fighter, Slayer, Rogue, Warpriest, Inquisitor... Anything you want really

>>51256156
What kind of TWF? There's brawlers get it for free for close weapons group and their fists, monks can use their flurry with monk weapons, UC rogues are going to dump everything into dex anways, fighters get every single feat ever and have a few archetypes that specialize in two weapons.

>>51256083
Post both and let us decide.
A vocal part of the community here seems to enjoy lewd campaigns, futa, traps, magical girls and other absolute degeneracies. Whatever you've come up with literally can't be worse.

>>51256203
Don't forget about the new AWT option for Fighter which lets them treat one-handed weapons as light weapons for TWF.

>>51256227

>twf twf falcatas

As surreal as it was to type that

>>51256203
I like the two bladed sword a lot, even if i have to burn a feat on it, so i was trying to build a character on that

>>51256043
Our group is currently in the process of securing a percentage of a mine's profits monthly, possibly for perpetuity.

>>51256083
As >>51256214 stated, a lot of folk here like shit that is absolutely awful. You couldn't possibly make something worse.

>>51256156
Unchained Rogue except for the lack of move-and-full-attack options. If you can solve that problem, they're the best at it.

>>51256238
Well, there are sword type monk weapons and fighter like I did say which gives you access to not only a million feats but also >>51256227
and the TWF archetype.

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What a nice, productive way to start the thread. No salt at all. This is nice. Keep it together, anon.

What are some ways to dual wield two-handed weapons? I know that Aegis with Greater Extra arms can pull it off. That's a bit... lame, though. There's also getting the Powerful Build trait somehow, but I guess that just lets you wield one size category larger, so you can be Guts.

Give it to me straight /pfg/

How shit is the Dark Elementalist Kineticist

>>51256362
Literally what?

>>51256370
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/occult-adventures/occult-classes/kineticist/archetypes/paizo-llc---kineticist-archetypes/dark-elementalist-kineticist-archetype

Why is it such a pain in the ass to play a prepared caster? I need to keep track of all of these spells and pearls of power...

There has to be a better way to do this.

>>51256373
It's shit, Anon.
>>51256383
Sorcerer?

>>51256393
But you can't have a spontaneous Warpriest.

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>invited to play a lewd game
>has custom vore system
>want to optimize, but unfamiliar with vore system
>have no character ideas whatsoever

Being a degenerate is hard.

>>51256362
Its strange, but ok I guess.

Okay so if I'm a Roil Dancer and say a KoP Cerebral Kineticist/any other archetype that changes what stat I use, is my initiation modifier still Constitution regardless of what I use for DC's and damage?

>>51256416
Can lewedposters go and stay go? Go hang out in an ERP general.

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>>51256043

>yfw Dragons turned into a Harem anime

Zevorykalyukanar
Lameeka
Astarte
Atolm
Freyda
Celisse

Was the final roster, five girls. One tiny guy

>>51256455
Speaking of closed games, did Pendragon choose already?

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>>51256455
>Damn it, she was cool. I'll be taking her ideas

>>51256453
We're not going anywhere anon. You're stuck with us forever!

>>51256455
What are you talking about? Who are those people/characters?

What happened in the last month?

>>51256356

Since you mention Powerful Build, I'm going to assume that third party feats are available. The Stupendous Strength feat from Dreamscarred Press's Monster Class: Savage Races I is what you need:

STUPENDOUS STRENGTH (COMBAT)
Your massive strength allows you to wield equally
massive weapons.
Prerequisites: Str 17, base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: You can wield normally two-handed weapons
as one-handed weapons, and normally one-handed
weapons as light weapons. When wielding a weapon in
this manner, you treat it in all ways as being that type of
weapon, rather than a weapon of its normal handedness.
In addition, you do not take the normal –2 penalty on
attack rolls while employing a tower shield, and can
make shield bash attacks with tower shields as if they
were heavy shields.
For example, if you wield a greatclub as a one-handed
weapon, you would only add your Strength modifier to
damage rolls, rather than 1-1/2 your Strength modifier,
and you would not gain additional damage from using
a two-handed weapon if you used the Power Attack feat.
Special: If you possess the Prodigious Two-Weapon
Fighting feat from Path of War: Expanded, its effect
stacks with this feat, allowing you to wield a normally
two-handed weapon in your off hand as a light weapon.

>>51256356
>>51256610

Prodigious Two-Weapon Fighting (Combat)
Your great physical might allows you to wield two large
weapons with ease.
Prerequisites: Str 13.
Benefit: You may fight with a one-handed weapon in
your offhand as if it were a light weapon. In addition, you
may use your Strength score instead of your Dexterity
score for the purpose of qualifying for Two-Weapon
Fighting and any feats with Two-Weapon Fighting as a
prerequisite.

Enjoy!

>>51256566
There's been about 7 different games advertised in the last month in /pfg/.

As lewd content was suggested, most of the games were oversubscribed - by /pfg/goers, no less, and thus as live coverage was going on in the thread many people were particularly invested in getting in as it became a popularity/meritorious competition of who could get the DMs attention the most.

There Be Fuckable Dragons was one of said games.

>>51256632
... Why? The timing seems weird. Why has there been so much lewedposters recently?

>>51256558
Can't you go wank before you post?

>>51256654

We have, we're ready for round 2 tho.

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>>51256610
>>51256617

Very cool, thank you!

>>51256654
The initial thing that happened was someone said they were going to run a high powered DSP/SOP allowed game with the module RoTJR: Return of The Jedi: Remastered, better known as Rise of the Jade Regent in 2 months time, and a good chunk of people started making applications well in advance. People started swapping ideas and thinking "wouldn't it be cool if..." and putting together highly optimised characters which /pfg/ started meming on hard, and so on, but the game was still miles away.

To capitalise on this glut of interest, 3-4 other campaigns started advertising for players - most picked up a lot of players fast but some decided to give a few weeks or months of advertising for people to get some real quality applications with full length backstories packed to the brim with hooks and characterisation.

And the original, RoTJR has only recently closed its application doors.

>>51256442
RAW yes. RAI ask your DM.

>>51256083
I would play in your game anon.

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>>51256455
Here's to hoping something else crops up in the fallout of RotJR

>Didn't apply to RotJR
>Was only a runner up to Dragon
>HV closed too fast
>Have basically lost all interest in Fluffy

I just wanted to be a big damn hero and have sweaty, adrenaline filled victory fucking or monster rape

>>51256832
I would offer but I have 4 games I'm currently running and a fifth I'm holding applications for.

>>51256832
>>Have basically lost all interest in Fluffy
Why would you do that? There's plenty of fun things happening in Fluffy!

>>51256841
After being basically promised a slot, watching the other applicants has taken a very different perspective

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>Trying to flesh out setting more
>Drawing a massive blank on what information is needed.
>Start wondering if I'm staying into "too much information" territory

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>>51256876
What are the players likely to hit soon?

I take it there's no way to increase the range on the the Roil Dancers maneuver blasts, right? I'm stuck with 30 feet.

>>51256904
They haven't played in it yet. I'm building it while they play through another setting I built a while ago.

I want to have the upcoming game for this setting take place in only one country, so I should flesh out that country the most, but then what if people want to come from another country but that one is very sparse in detail?

>>51256942
let them come up with some details!

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>>51256952
I was planning to.

One player has helped immensely in fleshing out the culture of the nation his character will be hailing from, so I'm hoping the others will do so as well.

>>51256942
So these are some good things to have:
-Who is in charge?
-What is the average person like?
-A rough timeline of the most important events in living memory.
-A rough map of the place.

You probably have all of that already though.
The most important things for a campaign are:
-Who do I get/give money to as an adventurer? Why?
-What can I do in my spare time?
-What do I normally do (magic, weapon holding) that would be illegal?

Stuff like that.

>>51256875
Just because you're running a trap character doesn't mean you should rest on your laurels! That slot's also open for shotas!

>>51256941
Range increment, anon.
Not range limit.

You can throw further, but would just take penalties.

Also Extended/Extreme Range should probably work with that RAI even though it's not RAW.

>>51256982
Look man, I'm in this thread because I want to have an adventure. If I wanted to sit around and have cute sex, I'd be in f-list. I don't currently foresee much adventure happening in Fluffy at all, so I have little interest

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>>51256980
Maps and timelines. Those are things I could work on.

Now if only I was artistically inclined, I could make some really nice looking maps, but c'est la vie, I will do what I can.

Thank you, anon.

>>51257022
Google Inkarnate

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>>51257036
I've tried using that before, I wasn't really able to get the kind of gradients that were shown in the example pictures. Probably takes a long time, but players deserve nice maps, so I'll try it again.

>>51257014
But why did you apply for a kingmaker game if you wanted adventure and you don't particularly like it?

In particularly, if you're guaranteed a slot, isn't that kind of arrogant, if you're going to half-ass it?

I'd like to run a game for a friend of mine, possibly I'd need some pfg recruits. But to be honest, I find DM'ing online really difficult to do. I've run some adventure paths RL before and those were fun times, however the workload for running online is way bigger, and AP's sort of suck to begin with, so the format seems to make them worse. Do the Paizo AP's just suck, and seem boring? I've checked out some of the third party ones but most seem structured in a way that barely makes sense.

>>51257120
A) You can have political adventuring and maneuvering, I just don't think that's going to get off the ground, depending on the group selected
B) I applied without knowing I had a slot
C) I'm holding out hope that Kon Kon manages to actually make a cohesive group that isn't just lusting for smut

>>51257125
I hate DMing online, but my group is made up of people from across the world.

I like how I can just hand draw a map when I DM in person and people use minis and everything goes well, but online, people always want highly detailed maps.

>>51257149

It's very slow too. Whenever I read AP's it seems like the start is purposefully made to be as boring as possible. You start reading through the encounters and find multiple CR 1 or 2 fights with 2-3 identical shitty monsters and it feels totally pointless.

>>51257120

>Fluffy Tails
>Kingmaker

>>51257187
>>51257125

The first book is always designed to bore you near to death, they very rarely have good plot design or memorable encounters or hell, even loot. The only APs that approach an interesting first act is Rise of the Runelords, Giantslayer and MAYBE Jade Regent, the rest are groan zones.

That said, APs really become exceptional by Book 4, when encounters are varied, the plot is moving along, treasure is special and the campaign utilizes interesting mechanics; Kingmaker, Reign of Winter, Jade Regent and more really become incredible by Book 4 or early 5.

What this teaches us is Level 9 is the true start of high adventure.

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>>51257218
Well, what else would a party of fluffy mostly girls do with each other if not for kingmaking?

>>51257304
Grooming and tail braiding

>>51257267
Book 1 of Jade Regent is SO FUCKING BORING.

Which AP has the most boring book 1?

>>51257348

Brinewall Castle is COOL!

>>51257401

In comparison to the rest of the AP? Jade Regent.

The boringest overall? Hell's Vengeance.

>>51257404
Sure, but everything prior to the spoopy skellies in the cave is BORING.

>>51257401
The answer is always council of thieves.

>>51257014
>>51257304

It sounded like there would be a lot adventures in The First World, no?

>>51257304
Getting kidnapped by fae, forever lost in a maze of unearthly pleasure beyond the hedge

>>51257428

The spoopy Ossifers should be found by Session 3, anon! They aren't exactly far from the book start!

>>51257304

The fact the only answer to that is "cute haremshit" is evidence enough that the campaign will have problems.

>>51257498
It took my group only 2 hours to get to Licktoad village and kill most of the goblins before having to flee the village towards Walthus's house (after saving him earlier).

I don't think Book 1 is going to last very long for us.

>>51257401
Skull & Shackles. God help you if your DM decides to make you roll for every day's ship work.

>>51257535

>tfw Walthus could be replaced by a very lonely witch and it would change nothing

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Yo, /pfg/, Dungeon Defense Anon here.

Got the Eberron setting book; where would be a good place to start looking into to set the game? I'm wanting to allow the PCs to be any non-monsterous race under the assumption of being a "lesser demon lord", and have some land like a castle, lair, or town. Where would be a good place in Eberron to start looking into? Also, would people feel put off from playing core races? I don't want that, knowing the most popular races in /pfg/ are humans and then tieflings. I kinda don't want it to be /super/ edgy, with people playing abominations and stuff. I know race restrictions are a sensitive subject here and am wondering if I could get input.

>>51257725
>demon lords game
>there's an area called "The Demon Wastes"
Really makes you think.

>>51257792
Man, I just got the book. No need to shitpost about it.

>>51257792

>The Demon Wastes
>Literally a region of unwashed Barbarian tribes just begging for a great leader to unite them

Really activates the sodium/potassium pumps.

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I was trying to post this in the D20 forums, but then I realized that they don't have a place for game discussion, so I came here.

I made this tarot card character creation system a few years ago because I was inspired by the Ogre Battle tarrot reader creation at the start of the game.

Take any 78-card tarot deck and separate the major arcana from the minor. Shuffle the Major arcana and place them all face down in two rows of eleven cards, to make it feel more mystical. Have a player pick six cards, each card adds +1 to three stats (except Wheel of Fortune and The World) and unlocks a playable class. Hybrid Classes can be taken if the player possesses the arcana of both of the parent classes, like having both the XVII The Star (Fighter) and XI Justice (Gunslinger) to play as a Swashbuckler.

>>51257811
Sorry, instinct. But yeah, you want to set it in Khorvaire because that's where most of the stuff happens, and the best places to set some ebil stuff in Khorvaire is The Demon Wastes, The Shadow Marches, Darguun, Droaam, or The Mournlands. The Shadow Marches is Orc Swamp, Darguun is Gobbos, Droaam is ruled by Hags, and The Mournlands is an irredeemable shithole. Read up on The Demon Wastes.

>>51257876
Of course, if the classes listed aren't to your liking, you can change out any class for one that's not listed as long as they have a similar feel. If the characters seem low powered to you, feel free to hand out some bonus stat points in

Two of my friends I used to game with were very superstitious, and I didn't even know about it until I started this whole thing. When my DM Mentor heard I was making a character creation system using tarot cards he showed actual fear and concern, telling me the tarot would take over my life, and that I shouldn't mess with fate. After I told him I was just using the major arcana he calmed down and admitted that would make whatever anyone drew nonsense.

The day I was going to DM came around, and I revealed to everyone how they were going to make characters for the game. The Dean, Mario, and Dervish Dancer were excited to try it, My Mentor was still a little unsure, and The Face just kinda laughed and rolled with it. The game went on for an hour or two when The Dean managed to set off a booby-trapped package due to his unmitigated curiosity, killing Dervish Dancer and The Face in a fiery explosion. I started up my creepy mystical music and told them to draw again.

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>>51257876
>>51257895
The Face went first and proceeded to draw the exact same cards in the exact same order as he did the first time barring the last card. On the first card The Face acted exasperated that he drew the same one as last time and everyone laughed. On the second draw, his nonchalant demeanor started to crack, he asked “Dude, what is this?” and in response The Dean and Mario got exited, Dervish Dancer became confused, and My Mentor was in a mix of awe and anticipation. The Face drew the third card and the entire table erupted into chaos. The Face completely lost his cool shouting “No! This is not okay!” he threw down the cards and then pointed at me and said loudly,” See! This is why I don't mess with any of this fortune telling bullcrap!” all the while The Dean and Mario were ecstatic, Dervish Dancer couldn't believe it, and My Mentor was yelling something like, “It's fate! You have to be the same character!” meanwhile I'm laughing my fat ass off like some kind of super villain behind a cardboard screen. We just got progressively louder and more thrilled as the next two cards were flipped till finally the last one was different. Then we all went back to yelling as the first four cards The Dean drew turned out to be the last four cards he drew the first time backwards.

My Mentor and the The Face, said they would never do it again, The Dean and Dervish Dancer were both really weirded out, and Mario just wanted to keep playing the game. It ended a few hours later with a crashed airship, Mario being the only survivor.

That's the story of how my tarot system freaked out three of my friends who then forbid me from ever using it again.

>>51257725
I for one would be fine with doing something along the lines of "a powerful demon requires a proxy, and so infuses a mortal with a portion of their essence to carry out his profane will" to justify having a member of a core race that has a lot of clout amongst demons and such. Like an appointed lieutenant that isn't involved with the political intrigue going on in the multiple layers of the planes and is as loyal as evil followers get, given enough freedom to basically do whatever they want so long as they further their lord's interests.

Does /pfg/ prefer to start their games at level 1?

>>51257991

Wouldn't that mean every core race member should take Avowed?

>>51258060
Not if given the option to avoid doing so

>>51258060

I prefer level 9, but level 3 is the standard starting level for local Pathfinder campaigns.

>>51258060
No, /pfg/ hates games that start at level 1, and for good reason. Rusty Dagger Shanktown isn't just a meme.

>>51258064
Everyone gestalts with Avowed (Fiend)?

>>51257991
>>51258064
See, that's what I'm worried about. I'm not actually sure how to structure this game without players feeling thematically restricted by the premise.

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>>51256530
>Hey, your app wasn't good enough, but I still liked your stuff
>So I'm going to take your ideas and give them to the others
>Thanks, now get lost
I wonder if the player even gave permission

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>>51258114

>>51258064
Wouldn't work. Avowed power can't be taken back.
The power granted by a patron is basically just an initial spark that by jump-starting your powers awakens them. It's not something you only keep as long as you're doing your work, and it can even often follow down bloodlines; great grandpa got you to hook his cables up to his soul, and now his great grandkid has powers based on yours and there's fuck-all you can do about it.

>>51258064
>>51258106

It's- it's called fluff guys.. you don't need to have every single person who makes a deal with the devil be an Avowed X. And if I remember correctly (which I could be totally wrong about since I read the previous posts about this campaign at something like 4 in the morning) this was supposed to have a ridiculously high point buy and be a gestalt campaign so the characters are already way above and beyond any regular human being.

Compare it to the Succubus' profane gift or the Demoniac's Demonic Boons. Your entire character doesn't suddenly change just because you have a demonic sponsor.

>>51258125
>implying I'm not being salty vicariously

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>>51258159
Salt is still salt

>>51258177
Speaking of salt:

My dm got pissed when i tried to destroy a ceiling with an adamantium weapon. How do i get him to relax?

>>51258177
You'll give yourself hypertension at this rate m8

>>51258190
Blow him.

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>>51258190
Pic related

>>51258138
I understand fluff, my concern is a bit different.

If people want to play core races, whether for mechanics or for fluff, the players are going to feel like they need to justify that choice. Normally that's not a problem, but my worry is that it will create a lot of backstories that are really similar due to picking core races and then needing to come up with a reason why they would be a minor lord.

Same thing happened with the Molthune game. Everyone had picked a fun, cool race, but then needed to say why they got landed on top of just citizenship. This also resulted in a ton of spy/tactician types. I just want to see some variety in the apps.

>>51258094
>Rusty Dagger Shanktown
I'm going to use this in my game.

Is celestial totem good for a skald?

>>51256654
>recently

There have always been lewdposters. Always.

>>51258085
>literally starting at the game's breaking point.

>>51258301
Not like this.

>>51258308
>9
>not 13
Wut? 5th level spells aren't that scary.

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>the HV people are literally playing their game, right now

>>51258308

The breaking point is level 15, everything from 9-14 is the optimal mixture of power and class variation.

What's the best adventure path?

What's the best adventure path for lewd?

>>51258373
>People can't be happy when I'm not!
Child

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>>51258338

>>51258373
>still in an hour and a half
don't scare me like that, anon!

>>51258356
>magic jar
>5th level
>not scary

>>51257941
That's hilarious
If I still have my old tarot deck I'm going to try this. Anything else I should know about it beyond its ~unholy power~?

>>51256043
I fight for King, Country and the keeper of the First Law who is all but a psionic god mind litterally embodying the first law in my head canon

>>51258375
Anon at 9 things start tumbling down, levels 6-8 are optimal differentiation and power level.

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So I'm playing a Sensei/Drunken Master/Four Winds/Qinggong Monk (with at least a one level dip in Sacred Fist to get flurry back). What're some good feats I could take? I know Potion Glutton would be good for drinking booze but beyond that I'm not sure how I should build this guy. Maybe Marid Style? I've heard Snake Style's a good way to go too. I'm wielding a Sansetsukon for the time being, maybe I should go Ascetic Style? Though that'll be a bit of a waste once my Unarmed Strike catches up with it in damage.

>>51258382

Rise of the Jade Regent for the first answer, and Kingmaker for the second.

>>51258382
What's the best adventure path to skip the first book and jump in at level 4?

Is fluffy still taking apps or am I late for that one too?

>>51258256

>+1 HP per CL for healing spells and effects (but not Fast Healing)
>Constant Invisibility Purge and Daylight at 8
>SR 11+Level against [Evil] spells, +2 on saves against spells and effects of evil creatures at 12

Celestial Totem seems like a very nice buff to drop on your party-the rest seem decent enough. There are probably stronger choices, though.

>>51258513
Fluffy is still up. Deadline is the 29 Jan.

It's not hugely subscribed, there's 4 slots, but the GM is looking for specific characters in particular.

>>51258513
yeah, till the end of the month

Release me from this torment

>>51258475
You don't need flurry, the best way to do monk is with a fuckload of feats that proc off one another that let you straight up Guilty Gear mother fuckers.
Wolf style, imp trip, greater trip, vicious stomp.
Or alternatively Imp Overrun, Elephant Stomp, Vicious stomp, etc.
Just keep chaining together AOOs.

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>>51258356
>>51258409
>>51258471
>E6/8 are optimal
>Level 9+ things are "totally broken guys"
>mfw all my favorite classes don't start getting cool things until 11+, and none of those classes are fullcasters
>mfw once again shitty broken spell lists ruin everything

why must fun things be ruined by the gamebreaking-autism-optimization

>>51258475
Pummeling Style will help immensely against any opponents with DR.

>>51258475
Jesus christ
Just go unchained. You will do more damage than an barbarian and won't have to take fifteen classes.

>>51258578
>won't have to take fifteen classes
It's just two though...

Right lads. I want to play as an obitu sorcerer but they have a racial -2 to charisma. I've never played Pathfinder before but are there any feats I could take that increase charisma?

>>51258553
Honestly 9-11 aren't impossible to DM for, but it's when you notice that 'holy shit martial characters just can't keep up'

>>51258591
lol no that isn't how pathfinder work, what you can do is take a bloodline that changes your caster stat to wisdom or int. Check our Empyrean or Sage bloodline.

>>51258591
No, that'd be broken as fuck. Play an Empyreal Sorcerer and cast off Wisdom.

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What are some memorable allies your characters has made? Are you on good terms with them?

>>51258553
>E6/8 are optimal

e6 or e8 are horrific and terrible. Do they prevent, or at least mitigate, the kind of awfulness that a normal 20-level game (hah as if those existed) sees, in terms of quadratic casters and all the other memes? Yeah.

Does d20 support the idea of "all you get is more feats per shitton of XP but the challenges keep getting harder?" Haha fuck no it does not. Any arbitrary necessities that e6 and e8 talk about--better planning, creative thinking, all that shit--have places in normal games AND rely entirely on GM bullshit to even allow to have an effect in the first place.

And before anyone says anything, yes, I've played in an e6 game before. I hated it.

>>51258594
>one round murdering anything they face
What are your standards for "keep up" again?

>>51258667
Being able to solve problems that don't involve murder.

>>51258667
Damage has never been a martial character's problem.

The problem is that martials' toolbox is "how fast can I kill [X]?"

Casters' toolboxes are "How can I fix literally any problem ever, or even set it up so that it's not a problem in the first place?"

>>51258677

Pathfinders mechanics are 99% murdering

>>51258687
Yea. We know. But lets not "lol god power" meme too much.

>>51258729
So instead we meme about ragebarian pouncemurderers? Okay.

>>51258688
There are more non-combat feats than combat feats.

>>51258523
Well I am only getting one level of it because I am going for a prestige class and we lack a dedicated healer, using mine and the other bard's basic healing for it and a massive spam of scrolls. Are there any good rage powers that would mitigate damage?
Also Since I am a skald I could just get the Invigorating Song and give people fast healing equal to my STR mod.

>>51258594
See, that's the level range where I feel a lot of classes start to really get going with their cool thing. A Magus finally gets heavy armor, or his archetype(s) really starts to stand out. An Investigator really starts to have his Inspiration take off, a fighter gets his first (or second) AWT, a URogue/Slayer gets advanced talents, a barbarian gets (or can get) pounce, etc. Sure casters are busted, but if actual play was totally dominated by busted shit then a lot of us probably wouldn't even bother. Shit's got problems, but it's a game.

>>51258644
e6 and e8 seem more like the kind of thing you do if you'd rather just fight a lot of the same power levels of dudes, IMO. It looks like of fun in theory, but it's NOT actually "the optimal experience" at all in my eyes. I just forgot my quotation marks around the "optimal" part.

>>51258777
Yeah I wasn't disagreeing with you about e6/e8, I should have specified.

Okay, I need three people for a homebrew game, going to start it as a one arc adventure, level 4~5 and see how it goes. Roll 20, text, 20 pt buy, Thursday or Friday nights after 5 mountain time, exact scheduling TBD. Settings details not super important, but lots of generic stuff so you can go with basically anything. You'll have taken a job as a caravan guard alongside the other PC's when the adventure starts. Throw some ideas at me so I can see if this thread has anything that isn't dumb shota trap kitsune

>>51258824
>Throw some ideas at me so I can see if this thread has anything that isn't dumb shota trap kitsune

How about a half-elf (mind's eye disciple) marksman farmgirl-turned-adventurer on her hero's journey to recover a fabled McGuffin needed to save the blight striking her multigenerational family farm?

>>51258824
Shame I'm in GMT, because I have a dwarf inquisitor concept I've been itching to play for ages.

>>51258777
I don't disagree, I've got a hard on for PRCs and at 11ish is when most PRCs 'turn on,' but witnessing an average player play a sorcerer who isn't intending to break the game operate in a game with a bard, paladin and zen archer was kind of when I realized the god caster meme isn't really a meme.
>>51258814
And I don't disagree with you, e6 isn't particularly good, only certain players get nice things at level 6, but the point I was trying to make is that characters are fairly strong, but the narrative and encounters cannot be warped by either side of the table.

>>51258883

I don't know what a mind's eye disciple is but I like striking out from home, you'd have to have some deeds under your belt to be level 4. And a reason why the average WBL you'd have wouldn't just be enough to turn around and head home.

>>51258824
Retired soldier of the kingdom turned adventurer since farming potatoes, while a perfectly valid life choice, isn't exactly "bae" with the yougins these day. His soldiery days consisted mostly of phalanx formation drills and standing in place on a wall with a shield in his hands for weeks at a time, hence why he's a lvl 1 adventurer now.

>>51258824
I've been wanting to try out a rogue alchemist build for a while, prodigal son of the the 'royal alchemist' or son of the leader of an alchemist's union some such.

He decides that he's had enough of traditional schooling, enough grooming to take the old man's place and strikes off to make a name that has nothing to do with his father's legacy.

>>51258955
Oh, I know EXACTLY that sensation. I had a newbie join with a USummoner and sweep encounters, combat and noncombat, while me and the other player just kind of twiddled our thumbs. About the only reason they HAVEN'T dominated the game is because they're new to PF and not a turboautist. They also keep trying to play to their eidolon's theme as a scythe-wielder.

>>51259024

Starting level 4 anon

>>51259057

Breddy gud

>>51258760
And there are more useless feats than useful ones.

>>51258824
Retired soldier/guardswoman who got a nice farm as a retirement bonus after their long career. Then discovered how much she actually hates fucking farming. Gave the town to a relative (or a kid?), said 'seeya' and went looking for the nearest job that didn't involve literally shoveling shit.

>>51258824
Books allowed?

>>51259087
I don't know why, but I saw "one arc" and thought it read "level one." Forgive my transgression.

I could also be half adventuring to convince >>51259105
that being a farmer isn't so bad.

>>51259094
So when you do an actual count and show that 99% of Pathfinder is combat then maybe a wizard with divination, teleportation, etc. will stop being broken because it doesn't do much in combat.

>>51259105
>>51259125

I am a sucker for grizzled too old for this shit types. Contrast well with plucky young types.

>>51259117

Anything reasonable

>>51259132
Spells are better than feats most of the time.
There are more to GAMES than combat, pathfinder RULES are 99% combat.

The issue with the Teleporting Divination wizard is that it fucks with the story, journey, and campaign.

>>51259242
Oh, so the percentage of rules that detail combat don't matter for the percentage of situations that require combat, and "99% combat" is totally irrelevant?

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>>51258418
Play some creepy music and lower the lights to amplify its spookyness, I used this song
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_ITpDhYvaI

>>51258824
At the risk of infringing on that other anon's rogue/alchemist niche, I was thinking of playing a very bookish alchemist who had always been taught by the book but wanted to branch out and study abroad. Queue running into some druids on the road that ended up being quite a learning experience, and suddenly the alchemist has developed a certain love of nature as something more than a source of reagents and desires to see more of the world in the hopes of using these adventures to advance their free-form research, both alchemical and otherwise.

I'm thinking of playing a skinwalker, but only shifting to the bestial form as the result of mutagen usage and otherwise being a regular human as far as fluff is concerned.

>>51259288
>posts tarot deck
>not posting Tartarus theme
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvfQVaOoWk8

>>51259288
Man, I already decided I wouldn't use homestuck music, and if I were to it would be megalovenia.

What do you set the base stats at? 10 for average? 12 to allow someone to hit 18 with appropriate draws?

>>51259312
>>51259312
>>51259105
>>51259125
>>51259057
>>51259024
>>51258883

Going to work, make sheets anons.

>>51259014
Mind's Eye Disciple is an archetype for the marksman class.

Any deeds under her belt could easily be explained--helped put down a goblin raid back home, did a favor for a druid or other wizened and lore-saturated person who told her of the McGuffin needed to save her family farm, traveled alone or with one other person from home to the caravan's starting location fighting monsters along the way, etc.

WBL can easily be explained by needing the McGuffin, too. Some sort of curse-breaking item that can't just be bought in stores.

Some new /pfg/ games have been posted recently. Does anyone have the roll20 links?

Are there any games coming up soon?

>>51259312
The nice thing about Alchemists is that you could have an entire party of the class and have each character play wildly differently, even while unarchetyped.

>>51259418
On this note, anyone have a link to Hell's Vengeance?

So what all feats would I want for a general whip build?

>>51259421
Dex/Melee
Str/Melee
Dex/Bombs
Those are the only real three out of the box ones. You need archetypes for the rest.

>>51259451
Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (Whip), Whip Mastery, Improved Whip Mastery, Greater Whip Mastery.

>>51259433
https://app.roll20.net/lfg/listing/66405/hells-vengeance

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>>51259321
I needed something a little more threatening in my music. But I very much enjoyed that game.

I made a rudimentary system for random encounters using the minor tarot, but after the first idea was nixed my half the group I gave up on it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcYzZjIpSek

>>51259451
Slashing Grace, Whip Mastery and the improved/greater versions, and maybe the Balor Whip feat chain.

>>51258824
A Jollylock Warlock Vigilante that's on a journey to accrue knowledge, and figures he might as well use his magical talents to earn some cash on the side. Where he came from he refuses to say, but he's always VERY interested in other people, and seems like a perfectly normal dude in his mid-20's. Tis all a ruse, and he's permanently in his Vigilante Identity around people because he's a Literal Animal.

>>51259562
Baylor whip feats?

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>>51259585

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>>51259376
Oh, base stats at 10 to start, then the players get lucky they can draw 1 stat at 16 and can boost it to 18 with racial mods.

>>51259602
>martials get to do some cool shit
>requires them to be level 12+
>just to be able to drag someone and stab them

>>51259721
Yeah yeah
Spheres of Combat is that way

>>51259602

I always thought feats like that line and style feats should be consolidated into one feat that gets better as your BAB does.

>>51259907
Then you would have to reduce number of feats for sanity sake.

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So lads, how was the first session of Molthune Knights?

RotJR WHEN?

>>51259907
Ideally this would be a thing.

However I think some of the "anti-feat" tax rules go too far style feats has always been something I think is WAY too feat heavy. Especially if you combine a weapon and combat style.

>>51256043
Has anyone here ever fought an elder God in their games? I'm joining a godkiller campaign where our objective is basically to banish all the Great Old Ones and flat out keep the Outer Gods from being summoned at all

Super Dirty Trick Build:

Base Dirty Trick Stuff:
>Improved Dirty Trick
>Greater Dirty Trick
>Dirty Trick Master
>Quick Dirty Trick

Dirty Trick Styles:
>Kitsune Style
>Kitsune Tricks
>Kitsune Vengance
>Cloak & Dagger Style
>Cloak & Dagger Subterfuge
>Cloak & Dagger Tactics

Feats to get Styles:
>Weapon Style Mastery
>Dirty Fighting
>Weapon Focus
>Vital Strike
>Improved Steal (so C&D Subterfuge doesn't provike AoO)

Base Feats:
>Weapon Finesse
>Piranha Strike
>Two Weapon Fighting
>Improved Two Weapon Fighting
>Greater Two Weapon Fighting
>Combat Reflexes
>Combat Stamina

Feats: 22

A Human Fighter gets 22 feats, so this fully comes to fruition at level 20.

On the plus side whenever an enemy provokes an AoO they become Dazed and Nauseated for 1d4 rounds, plus something they're holding gets stolen. The build gets free Dirty Tricks whenever one would normally get sneak attack dice. It can replace any number of attacks in a full attack with dirty tricks using combat stamina. It can upgrade dirty trick to debilitating things (like nauseated & dazed). Plus a bunch of other dirty trick stuff.

>>51259937

Knights isnt until Thursday

>>51259976
*has anyone ever tough a Great Old One?
Still learning the difference

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>>51256043
There is nothing worth fighting for, for all things are ephemeral. Those who do not yet exist own nothing. Nothing can be 'squandered,' as it possesses no worth /to/ be wasted in the first place.

Why can't you accept the pathetic limitations of mortality?

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>>51259978

>>51260052
look at that curly villain moustache

Ever had mini-bosses turn out way deadlier than originally intended?

I had my players fight two brothers, the Crawford Boys. Both were level 4 rogues. They weren't particularly good. They had TWF/Outflank/Precise Strike. This mean however that the two of them were hitting for 4d4+12d6+16 plus they both Bewildered and Hampered anyone they hit using debilitating blow. Outflank make them fantastic at actually hitting things.

The party was a group of 4 level 4 characters. The Crawford Boys ended up downing one party member, killing another, and one Crawford Boy ended up carrying his brother away after he dropped and the two parties left each other to lick their wounds.

The dead party member has since be reincarnated by a friendly homeless druid the party knew.

>>51259977
Alright, if we use some pretty extreme feat tax rules, how far down can this be cut?

>Fighter would get Combat Stamina for free
>TWF could be merged into one or two feats
>Vital Strike should probably auto-scale because it's shit otherwise
>No idea how Dirty Trick or Steal factors into the combat maneuver feat consolidation, but I'd imagine you would at least cut that in half?
>Style feats could probably be made to auto-scale as well, cutting it down from 3 to 1

RotJRanon, you've gotta put some people out of their misery. Tell us who definitely wasn't up to snuff?

A Gestalt game in which each person has to choose Rogue/Slayer/Brawler for one of their classes. The party is a group of assassins given a target they have to kill and each level is gained by completing the mission to kill said target.

Kills become more difficult or elaborate as the levels increase. Think it could go well or would it just become the players brute-forcing their way through?

>>51260138

>lvl 4 rogues
>with outflank
>outflank requires a BAB of +4

Shameful

>>51260052

Big talk for a guy who still hasn't managed to corrupt and/or destroy the world's supply of drunken pandas.

>>51260243

It will only go well if you make a roll20 and accept people from here.

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>>51260243
>A Gestalt game in which each person has to choose Rogue/Slayer/Brawler for one of their classes. The party is a group of assassins given a target they have to kill and each level is gained by completing the mission to kill said target.

Yes yes yes yes YES

>>51260243
I'd play the fuck out of this. No seriously if run well it'd be great.

Strangler Brawler here I come.

>>51260246
Rogues not being full BaB has always been retarded.

>>51260306
There'in lies the problem. I don't really see myself as a good GM, especially without the guidelines of an AP. I might work on it but it'll take me awhile before I can see it coming to fruition...

>>51260330
To make these kinds of things interesting you need detailed floor plans and plans on what is happening inside and around the target. The target's schedule, the time frame, etc.

>>51260330

All you have to do is give the players targets and set up a few guards for them. Let the players decide how they want to take them out.

>>51260351
This sounds familiar. Almost like there's another game system that does a similar premise. Something about...running, maybe? And shadows?

How do you guys feel about "Helm of Opposite Alignment"?
Is it the ultimate way to ruin the session/campaign as GM?

>>51259397
Sure, but where we posting 'em?

>>51260351
See that's boring because it's not a complex enough kill.

You need the target's movements, where we are supposed to kill them, a floor plan, and who can/can not see the kill.

>>51260345
>>51260351
Yeah, such was my idea. But I don't like taking the time to find proper maps and whatnot. So I'd probably just set it in Golarion and scavenge maps from Paizo.

Missions would be along the lines of "You know the name of your target and that's it. Learn more and find their weaknesses or how you want to kill them"

Lower levels would just be mundane guards, next up in difficulty might be a bodyguard or bodyguards that are higher level than the party can handle and they'll need to find a weakness in the target's routine. While the highest levels would have magical defenses that need to be bypassed.

>>51260361
Hitman No Subtitle?

>>51260403
Dude that was it, how'd you guess?

>>51260385
Honestly /pfg/ is WAAAAAAY too sensitive about shit like that. Anything with even slight influence over their character causes /pfg/ to throw a shit fit.

While if you do something like "haha helm of opposite alignment, the paladin falls" then yes you're a piece of shit, but it can be made interesting if certain conditions are met.

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>>51260423
Must be fate!

How do you as a player feel about the idea of "The Turning Wheels of Fate" and fate as a concept to interact with as a character.

Do you reject fate? Embrace it? Scorn it? What is Fate to you?

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>>51260465
Only if I can punch someone so hard it leaves an impact crater of my fist on the moon.

>>51256083
Am starved, post it and I will probs play it

>>51260243
>not including Vigilante

but why

I have had this experience with players in person, from roll20, and on /pfg/ and I don't get the trend.

It seems like 99% of people only want an illusion of danger. As soon as actual danger presents itself they get moody/angsty about it. For instance the moment a villain seems actually capable of killing party members most people get angry about it.

Is this just because of a threatened power fantasy? Does no one want actual opposition but just the illusion of opposition?

Seems kind of sad to me. What does it even matter if you know you're going to win in the end no matter what you do?

>>51260465
Free will vs Determinism
We, in real life, tend to think that determinism won because we have no proof that free will can exists.

But in fantasy world, and with the law and chaos alignments, there is real sense that fate can be changed. But it probably takes divine power or arcane power to do so.

>>51260526
Forgot about it. Not like I'll even create this game. I'm just torturing myself and everyone else with the possibility.

>>51260531

Sounds like you are playing with shit players. Much like video games it doesnt matter if your character dies. You just roll up a new one. It is like playing Diablo with a hardcore character. Sure you invested a lot of time into it, but now it is time to play something else.

Also, nothing says you cannot just change some physical features around.

>>51260531
Partly it stems from, y'know, /death./ People invest in their characters, and even in D&D death carries some form of permanence. If you can't afford the Raise Dead, much less the stronger spells, that's it.

And nobody wants to lose something that's been invested in.

>>51260640
You can afford Reincarnate starting at level two. If your character doesn't save up 1k gp for a reincarnate at the very fucking least then you deserve to stay dead.

>>51260658
Yeah but who wants to come back as a completely difference race?

>>51260531

For me it is the opposite. Players would rather suicide head long into overwhelming odds then risk capture or be seen as cowards. I think they forget that that is an option.

>>51260499
Didn't this character exist in games prior to becoming a playable character?

And wore an actual shirt until then?

>>51260670
Someone who prefers it over being dead. Think about it from an in character perspective. Does your character hate the idea of being a dwarf so thoroughly he'd rather be dead?

Put away 1k gp and wait until you're higher level to put away more. But at level 3 you easily have enough gold to put away some for a Reincarnate.

>>51260640
But lack of fail state also means lack of stakes.

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>>51260743
Yes. She's a classmate at the academy gunkata girl and Nii-san went to.

And it's real cute looking. Such a shame you can't play as her in it.

>>51260640
If you can't die then there are no stakes. That's a really poor representation of the game.

Cool villains, particularly threatening villains, are the life blood of games.

I gave my players an enemy that fucking terrified them, had a great time.

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>>51260743
Here's also her Intelligence Division uniform. Again, a shame she discards it immediately.

>>51260752
>>51260785
I'm not saying there shouldn't be a fail state, or stakes, or whatever. I'm just trying to explain why players get cranky and crabby when there's the threat of losing something they've worked on and put time into.

>>51260782
>Decent Outfit
>>51260808
>Cool outfit

>Both ditched for skimpy nothing upon becoming playable.

Fuck fighting games.

>>51260810
I am tempted to just say
Immaturity

>>51260808

>No one knows I'm a squirrel

>>51260531

I love dying!

>>51260745
Because it's not my character's choice. It's MY choice. If I wanted to play as a dorf, a kitsune chocolate shota trap or a big stupid jellyfish I'd have made my character that from the beginning.

>>51260810
It's called being a big baby. I know why they do it. They are still shits for doing it.

>>51260752

Uh oh, I made the bad game.

>Insert attempted rape of female lead here

Can someone link the fluffy roll20 page?

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>>51260910
what

>>51260531
Personally, I don't mind the possibility of death, I just think it's lame if a game hypes me up for INTENSE ROLEPLAY ACTION and has me sit down to do all this buildup for a character, only for them to get killed by a swarm of random, nameless kobolds. If you're going to send shit at us with the intent to kill us in your "story-driven roleplay experience", make it something that should ACTUALLY MATTER TO THE STORY YOU PRETENTIOUS FAGGOT.

>>51260658
If there's a way down the line to recover the player's old race, then sure, Reincarnate and suck up that you're stuck like that for a while. Otherwise it's lame as shit if a player finds out that their elf wizard is now an orc, or the human Barbarian is now a kobold, and they can't go back without dying over and over and hoping they roll the right thing.

>>51259261
listen here nigger, combat is the thing that requires rules. If you attach too many rules to roleplay (which pathfinder does) it's going to feel arbitrary. There's like a million different non combat rules that nobody uses because they're stupid or pointless, like crafting, diplomacy, drinking, etc. Don't be a pedant, kust because the rules are largely combat oriented does not mean the game itself follows the same pattern.

>>51260948
There is. Wish or Miracle can restores the original race.

>>51260903
MODS

>>51260932

David Cage famously said that fail states are a failure of the game designer, and in all of his games the female lead almost gets raped by some crazy guy, or instantly falls in love with someone for no real reason.

Watch the Sadness Saga, anon.

>>51260987
You mean Daiyvid Caiyge?

You just don't understand the emotions, anon.

>>51260978
>only 9th level spells
>have to wait until 9th level spells to fix a shitty roll on a reincarnate table

Well ain't that some bullshit, no wonder people just bring in new characters until Raise Dead becomes common.

>>51260978
So basically the end of the game.

>>51260531
because sometimes the stakes are just retarded or make no sense.

A large reason why I hate low levels really, no sense getting invested into something that dies to a midget with a wooden shiv

>>51261006
It's not the best option, but there's the Salve of Second Chance, I think it's called. Actually costs less than Reincarnate, and if you use it in the right moon phase, you get to roll twice and pick one.

>>51261006
I personally like the thought of Reincarnate and being stuck until later. It makes for an interesting twist.

>>51260903

There once was a scantily clad witch in our party that would occasionally have nip slips, it was never really an issue since we see her naked on a nightly basis.

>>51261006
>>51261013
You realize you can go find someone to cast it for you right? Spellcasting services exist for a reason.

Having to go on a journey to find a oracle/cleric who can cast miracle to turn you back into a dwarf is an interesting leg of the adventure.

>>51260952
Here's how that argument went.
>Them: Martials are good at combat.
>Me: They suck at problems that don't involve combat.
>Them: Pathfinder rules are 99% combat.
>Me: No they're not, and even if they were wizards would be strong.
>Them: Well yeah, because the games aren't all combat even if the rules are.
>Me: So 99% was just a pointless distraction.
>You, two hours later: You're so fucking stupid, just because the rules are combat focused doesn't mean the game is combat focused.

>>51261026

This is why I love level 7 starts and are quite butthurt nobody runs them.

Not only do you get to play with the cool toys, you get to sit at the big boy table of quests and treasure.

>>51260599
The beguiler would be another great option for the sneaky half of the gestalt.

>>51260987
David Cage is Railroad king
We probably should not take his word on roleplaying games

>>51261030
There you go. If you die within the week proceeding the full moon then you get to roll twice.

Sure you didn't roll human, you got half-elf. Is being a half-elf so bad?

An elf being forced to be an orc for a year of his life is interesting.

>>51260824
To be fair it looks like that Intelligence Division outfit would be kind of boring to animate in a fighting game, which usually have lots of flashy motion to it.

>>51260810
I think the real crux of the issue here is trying to find the balance of perceived difficulty by the players vs what they believe needs to be done in order to achieve their goals.

As an example, take a battle between a giant slimy monster and a guy who fights things in melee combat. Suppose the slime has DR against most martial combat, but the way the DM describes it makes it sound like he isn't damaging the creature at all, even though by the numbers he IS whittling it down.
The player feels like he's in a futile battle of life and death, even though in a few more swings of his weapon he will be victorious, his IRL morale will be low because he thinks there's nothing he can do to stop his character's demise.

There's nothing worse than feeling like you're helpless to do anything to stop the inevitable from happening, and it's even worse when it seems that nothing you do keeps it from getting worse. Worse still is when a player starts to get the feeling that their very existence as a force in the world is making things worse for everyone around them with every decision they make, which is something I've had to endure myself in an old group.

>>51261055
It's basiclly going to be until the end of the fucking game for you to be able to afford hat shit.

Like at that point you may as well try to sell your services to someone who can raise dead and just be their proverbial bitch for a while.

>>51261086

>Stygian Slayer || Avowed (Shadow)

YES

YES

>>51261055
Part of that problem is that it puts the game in the hands of NPCs, which most people don't like the sound of; they want to be able to solve problems with their own hands or with their own spells and abilities, not by having other people wave their hands and solve a problem.

>>51261040
It's cool, and could make for a neat story. Not being able to fix it until what amounts to "the end of the game" is retarded. Sure, the barbarian could end up a Troll and get to enjoy

>>51261055
I could also have just asked to party to find a Cleric/Oracle with Raise Dead and avoided the whole issue.

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>pfsrd down again.
JUST

>>51261157
>I could also have just asked to party to find a Cleric/Oracle with Raise Dead and avoided the whole issue.
Yes, you can also do that.

I'm just stating that Reincarnate is cheaper to the point a level 2 character can manage it. Raise Dead comes online for affordability at level 4 if you put most of your gold towards it.

>>51261140
And that is fucking asinine if players can't handle the idea of journeying to seek help. Like actually they are shit players for that alone.

>>51261116
Reincarnate doesn't cost anything unless it is a "true miracle", so it just cost spellcasting services money, which is 1530gp.

>>51261167
Is there a sale? Or is this just going to be a common thing now.
>>51261209
We were talking about Miracle to fix the players race.

Reincarnating into a race you don't want is basically "FUCK YOUR ARCs, FUCK YOUR CHARACTER GOALS, FUCK EVERYTHING, THIS IS YOUR THING NOW".

>>51261209

Most players don't realize the Monomyth includes a Journey to the Underworld, when the hero is at their lowest point and must become more than just a man to succeed.

To many, suffering a setback that forces them to seek help is too much - heroes don't do that, they win forever!

>>51261246
>Is there a sale? Or is this just going to be a common thing now.
It's been happening periodically for a long time now, anon.

>>51261246
>"FUCK YOUR ARCs, FUCK YOUR CHARACTER GOALS, FUCK EVERYTHING, THIS IS YOUR THING NOW".
I mean, you could, you know, go about your business in your new body. You don't HAVE to make a big deal of it in character if you still want to do your arc. You CAN make a big deal of it.

Reincarnation isn't covered under the 25k costing miracles, so it'd just cost 1.5k go.

Again, literally something affordable by a level 3 character.

>>51261266
>Most players don't realize the Monomyth includes a Journey to the Underworld, when the hero is at their lowest point and must become more than just a man to succeed.
There's a difference between set backs and basically being forced into playing a concept and race you don't want anything to do with or lose the character.

There are way more interesting arcs than "Rats, I'm stuck playing a fucking halfling for most of the game."

>>51261266
Yes, but the Journey to the Underworld does not have to be literal death. A character can both have an arc and avoid death.

>>51261290

>You don't HAVE to make a big deal of it in character if you still want to do your arc. You CAN make a big deal of it.

>I was human, but now I'm a Drow.
>This doesn't change anything about my personality, goals or appearance

Next you're going to say being a man in a woman's body is a "get over it" non-issue.

>>51261308
>There's a difference between set backs and basically being forced into playing a concept and race you don't want anything to do with or lose the character.
You realize an elf trapped in an orc body doesn't suddenly being acting like an orc, right? You're still an elf mentally, lingually, and culturally.

Are you actually retarded?

>>51261331
Why would it change your personality or goals? All it changes is your appearance.

>>51261331
Depends on the person.

It could be, it could not be.

>>51261331
>>This doesn't change anything about my personality, goals or appearance
It literally does not change anything about your personality. Reincarnation does not impart mental changes, just physical.

And yes, gaining a goal during play because of events should be encouraged. If you come to the table and say "this is my goal, if anything happens to change my goal I'll throw a shit fit" then you're a terrible player.

For appearance yes, that's sort of the point. What, is not being physically an elf making it so you want wank off?

>>51261347
And that's literally what dysphoria is, anon; you're in the wrong body, and you KNOW, empirically and with evidence, that this isn't what you're supposed to look like. You're a mind trapped in a body that doesn't fit you, and it's a terrifying thing. That's not something you can just "get over" in a day.

>>51261347
And that's not what I'm fucking saying you fucking mongrel.

You are no longer an elf, you are now a fucking Orc that was once an elf and that is going to impact you in someway. Maybe the player fucking hates orcs? Maybe the player really wanted to play an Elf?

I guess you would be fine with spell effects that also just scrambled peoples class levels too.

>>51261331
It doesn't change your personality or goals, are you fucking stupid? It adds a possible goal which is 'change back'.

Fucking christ /pfg/.

>>51261376
Yes, your character is developing during the story due to a setback. Oh the fucking horror.

Don't make a character if you are not willing to see them die.
Someone gotta be Boromir

>>51261320

Well yeah, but I've just seen so many people get pissy when they fail to achieve some goal or quest that, rather than move on or try to overcome the obstacle through getting stronger, they give up.

>>51261266
The issue is that the arc of the average monomyth is difficult to recreate within the system of a D&D-styled game, where every combat features people who can be brought from 100% HP to 1 HP in a single blow and can still fight just as well as they did before they were struck.

The vast majority of fights in these systems are often fights to the death, and most combats don't give much option to retreat once it's begun, whether in the context of mechanics or in the minds of the players. After all, why would the villain be stupid enough to let you escape if he can just kill you and all your friends instead so you DON'T come back in 2 months stronger than ever?

It's also a system that doesn't really support the mentality of "retreat for now, lick our wounds, and then come back with a different point of view that will win the day" when in the end everyone is working on the same set of rules and a level 20 sorceror's fireball can be evaded fully by a level 10 rogue with a good roll.

>>51261389
>I guess you would be fine with spell effects that also just scrambled peoples class levels too.
Yes. The only part of that I wouldn't like is the increased book keeping. It would be interesting.

>>51261389
Maybe the fact that your lifespan just got shortened to the length of what was essentially your childhood would have a minor impact on mental wellbeing as well.

>>51261398
Don't blame the rest of /pfg/ for one whiny bastard.

>>51261372
>>51261347

Do you also support the use of Helms of Opposite Alignment or Belts of Gender Change?

>>51261398
That's a pretty big fucking goal, that pretty much will supersedes everything else. It's not really fun. It's not really interesting. It's basically being stuck playing as something you don't want to play until you can sink some gold into not being that thing anymore.
>>51261398
>Yes, your character is developing during the story due to a setback. Oh the fucking horror.
There are different types of setbacks you fucking retard.

>>51261422
>>51261389
Yes, it is an impactful event and important to your character. Why is this so bad?

The "I as a player hate orcs, the fact my character has to be one temporarily makes me buttmad" is a hallmark of a bad player. Irrationally hating certain races to the point being one temporarily makes you shut off as a player means you're shit.

It's like the folks who even when the setting doesn't have a race demand they can play it.

>>51261421
So you are fucking retarded or at the very least should be playing something more OSR like.

>>51261352

An Elf in an Orc's body might not be fit to become King of the Elves.

Or maybe they don't want to come home and give their husbando freaky half-Orc babies.

>>51261434
>Do you also support the use of Helms of Opposite Alignment or Belts of Gender Change?
Yes, they can be interesting.

>>51261442
>There are different types of setbacks you fucking retard.
Yes and you're being a huge baby about this type.

>>51261454
>"I as a player hate orcs, the fact my character has to be one temporarily makes me buttmad
Having tastes, likes, and dislikes makes you bad player?

Not sitting through something that is no longer fun for you makes you a bad player?
>temporary
Given how long games can last, you can be stuck playing something you don't want for a long ass time.

>>51260243
But are the PCs Italians with famous inventor friends?

>>51261478
Yes, your character is effected by the events while he was adventuring. It can effect things and change his direction.

See the thing is if instead the character lost an arm people would be much less buttmad. It's because "can't play muh waifu race".

>>51261488
>Yes and you're being a huge baby about this type.
No I'm not. It's a superficial setback that only serves as a money sink.

>>51261209
>>51261290
>level 2 could afford reincarnate, therefore could afford undoing the race change of reincarnate
>implying it's possible for level 2 schmucks to just waltz somewhere and find someone capable of casting wish/miracle on them

If players sit down and are A-okay with reincarnate changing shit, cool. If the party is NOT okay with that because they don't want to get their race permanently changed because of an arbitrary dice roll, then they shouldn't be forced to deal with it anyway.
t. person who was A-okay with the Sorshen trap in SS changing the sole dude in the party into a woman, but had another party member who was decidedly NOT okay with it and had the whole scene retconned.

>>51260987
... What?

>>51261527
>spoiler
I fucking remember that, that was the most inane bullshit I could imagine.

>>51261488
>>51261454
>>51261347
>>51261398
So, what you're actually saying is "my characters are so one-dimensional that completely changing their physical appearance and how the world sees them, or an item that changes their entire mindset to its polar opposite, doesn't affect them meaningfully". That's what you're saying.

Great, shit player detected.

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Yo all, the new Spheres of Might preview's gonna be up in a bit, we're just setting it up as well as updating the previous preview too!

>>51261500
>Having tastes, likes, and dislikes makes you bad player?
Refusing to temporarily to play a race because of events that happen in game makes you a bad player. yes.

>Given how long games can last, you can be stuck playing something you don't want for a long ass time.
It takes as long as it takes for you to scrounge 1.5k gp and find a level 17 cleric.

>>51261512
It's not even about waifus. I'd be mad if my human barbarian got morphed into half-elf, my hobogoblin got morphed into a human, or my dwarf got morphed into a half ling.

Reincarnation is basically the DM tearing up your sheet and saying "play this or don't play" and apparently people are entitled for not putting up with that.

>>51261546
Wow, good strawman cunt. What I'm saying is it does effect you, but refusing a certain kind of arc makes you a shit player. Especially with something of this nature. Your character is effected by being reincarnated, of fucking course he is. Just like he would be effected by losing an arm, or going deaf, or contracting spell plague or any number of other semi-permanent disabilities. Being a big baby because "can't play muh elf" makes you shit.

>>51261546
Yeah.

Durr hurr go on a quest to get your body back is only interesting if you were playing what amounted to a faceless mercenary type with no real goals or motivations anyway.

Fucking with a player to such an extreme degree is fine in OSR shit where characters are all basically the same anyway and are equivalent to lives in a videogame, Pathfinder doesn't work like that though.

>>51261331
Being a tranny in a fantasy setting is a non issue you dolt, just like being 'transpecies' or 'other souled' whatever the fuck you tumblrcunts call it. Greater hat of disguise solves all issues

>>51261553
>every game has 17th-level clerics

>>51261512

Losing an arm is a big deal with obvious fixes in a fantasy setting; prosthetics are not only available, they can be REALLY cool (like Nuada Airgetlam with his mithral arm.)

An elf becoming an orc is just... Awkward, it doesn't offer anything beyond maybe one or two "funny" scenes of the character adjusting to their new body. This isn't something you can improve off of, this is something you can only "fix."

When the Elf becomes an Elf again, he isn't going to retain the Orc's muscle mass, he isn't going to suddenly become the High Lord of Orcs. He isn't going to have every female knight in the kingdom lusting after him. He's just going to go back to being an Elf, with the only lesson learned being "that was a waste."

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>>51261551
Hype! Looking forward to this, will there be punching in the preview?

>>51261559
So what you're saying is your character's physical appearance is all that mattered to you? or at least mattered enough that playing through how being changed effected him/seeking out changing back is so appalling to you that it's akin to your character sheet being ripped up? Either you're being melodramatic or you're that guy.

>>51261585
>What I'm saying is it does effect you, but refusing a certain kind of arc makes you a shit player
So your a shit player for refusing to deal with your character getting raped too?

Can't character just deny the reincarnate if they are unwilling

>>51261603
>An elf becoming an orc is just... Awkward, it doesn't offer anything beyond maybe one or two "funny" scenes of the character adjusting to their new body.
Are you fucking stupid? If all you can think of is "one or two "funny" scenes" then you are actually creatively bankrupt as a human being.

God damn. I can't tell if you're serious or trying to fuck with me.

>>51261612
>So what you're saying is your character's physical appearance is all that mattered to you?
You must be very autistic to think that he was saying that.

Let's be honest, if someone's going to make deal of it and make a concerted effort to change back, it's likely not gonna need them to get a fucking 9th level spell.

We've got genderswapping spells and at least one race-swapping spell.

This argument is stupid.

>>51261553

Level 17 Clerics don't grow on trees, anon.

The number of level 17 Clerics in Golarion can be counted on two hands, and that's including the ones a level 3 could never come across without being level 15.

>>51261623
>So your a shit player for refusing to deal with your character getting raped too?
Yes. Rape being off the table as a possibility for characters is mostly because of american squeamishness. Especially in a game where the players are in a constant roil of murder and death. It's not exactly much better on the ladder of morally black activity.

>>51261553
>It takes as long as it takes for you to scrounge 1.5k gp and find a level 17 cleric.
Given how exceedingly rare a level 17 cleric is and the fact that I'm pretty sure getting Miracle cast costs more than 1.5k, yeah it's going to take a while.

>>51261611

Two is best girl.

>>51261655
Jesus

Christ

>>51261585
>refusing a certain kind of arc makes you a shit player
And forcing an unfun arc onto your players makes you a shit DM

>>51261626
Yes.

>>51261646
There are a few large cities in the world with clerics of that level knocking about. A level 17 cleric would be famous and obviously. Likely you know of one, the high priest of some religion. Traveling half a continent away should be on the table if your character cares about his physicality (or if the change was partially jarring, like a kobold to a bugbear, or elf to a goblin).

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>>51261623
>>51261655
you didn't have to do this to the thread

>>51261678
THIS

THIS

THIS

>>51261631

But weren't you just telling us that changing into an Orc changes NOTHING but appearance?

>>51261655
/pfg/ was a mistake

>>51261662
True Miracle costs 26.5k gp. However just Miracle costs 1.5k go. Reincarnate does not call out needing the expensive version of miracle.

>>51261693
Different guy.

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>>51261611
We should have some punching in there if the striker is unveiled.

>>51261655
People who have experienced it say that rape is awful.
I've never heard someone who was murdered say it was bad.
Ergo, rape is worse than murder.

>>51261701
Will it punch harder or softer than the unchained monk?

>>51261655
>rape
>not worse than murder

>>51261585
As >>51261678 says, sounds like you're blaming your players for your own deficiencies, anon.