THE MOOSE IS LOOSE Edition >Old thread: >>51235694

>>51252994
I've seen someone stand on one

>>51253134
Pretty solid for a sub 150 maelstrom deck

>>51253130
Redoing my post from the end of last thread because I messed it up

What does /edh/ think of my budget Maelstrom Wanderer brew? Thinking of building this next and wanted everyone's thoughts on it. Is it lacking in any particular area?

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/a-maelstrom-enters-the-battlefield/

>>51253170
Thanks. Any upgrades I should keep in mind going forward?

>>51253185
Wildfire, Burning of Xinye and Jokulhaups are great cascades if your playgroup won't hate you out.

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Reposting, asking for opinions on my Slobad v1 list! No mycosynth, no boom/bust, nothing too fancy.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/slobads-time-to-shine/

>What deck do you build them? What deck do you play against them?
I'd likely just advise them to get a pre-con under the context of them being pretty alright on their own. I'd then face them with a deck that's got some jankey shit to show off that things like that are possible if they're willing to look more into specific singles, rules, and so on as they get more into it.

Also, figure I might as well ask again since I got to the last thread rather late for opinions on this deck I just ordered and made half to win, half for shits and giggles:
https://deckstats.net/decks/40058/639885-ruff-riders/en

Someone suggested I get Sram, which sounded like a great idea to me.

>>51253209
I've had a lot of fun with Furnace Celebration in Slobad, not sure if it's actually good or not though. Scrapyard Salvo randomly domes people for 20+ damage pretty easily.

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Post'em

>>51253185
If you ran more creatures, maybe lurking predators?

I've always been a fan of mystic remora,and try to find a place for it everywhere. Obv rhystic study too, if you're willing to part with the 7 bucks

>>51253130
you forgot the title you donut

>>51253230
Thank you for the suggestions! Salvo seems pretty funny

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post decks with your favorite cards!

>>51253273

Gordon ramsay???

What decks do you play?

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I'm still soliciting feedback on my Gonti list. I've changed 10 or so slots since my last post.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/d-a-r-k-f-a-n-t-a-s-y/

Maybeboard = acquireboard

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>>51253283
There are two kinds of people. ..

The ones that prefer the old nicol bolas art ,

And

degenerates

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Any spicy tech with Sigarda voltron?

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>>51253251
>>51253185

>>51253130
You forgot the title, but you also posted a card that would be useful in one of my pauper decks. So I dislike you, but you're not all bad.

>>51253134
I'm that budget anon who types out giant paragraphs about nothing, and Maelstrom was one of the best decks I've ever built.

How do you plan on winning and what is it you want to do? The most obvious criticism is that your average CMC is bonkers, which will lead to a lot of dead draws. Playtesting it, I got a working hand 1/7 times, which may just be bad luck, but is generally not a good sign. You also have very few cards that will draw anything, which causes major problems if you don't get magical christmasland hands. 28 things 5 cmc or greater is far too many.

Your ramp package looks perfectly serviceable and Maelstrom is excellent with top deck manipulation should you want to include it. Some of your big things like Woodland Bellower, Ulvenwald Hydra and Greenwarden of Murasa don't really do anything with your deck, and could be swapped out.

Overall, you didn't do too bad for a budget deck. I'd suggest picking a theme and sticking to it. The cascade stuff in the deck is cute, but generally underwhelming, unless you're putting spicy things on top of your deck. Run Sage Owl, Cached Dreams, Brutalizer Exarch, Mwonvuli Beast Tracker, and Worldly Tutor for extra spice. I personally like Beserker's Onslaught, and Ulamog's Crusher/Bane of Bala Ged are both cheap and amazing in these sorts of decks. I like Arcanis the Omnipotent for a variety of reasons, and I'd suggest looking into Giant Adephage, Feldon, Kalonian Hydra, Heartless Hidestugu, and Tyrant's Familiar. Stormsurge Kraken is also cute, and try to focus on reducing the CMC of your cards. Pick 10 things that will win you the game, 10 things that will enable your game winners, then just play out whatever value you get. Maelstrom is excellent if you can control what he cascades into, and he will always net you value when you cast him, so you don't have to worry about getting too fancy.

>>51253300
You're already running grave titan and soon the deathmantle, you should consider ashnod's altar and phyrexian altar. Ashnods lets you go infinite with Grave Titan. With phyrexian you can go infinite if you have panharmonicon on field, alternatively if you happen to have both altars on board you can get the infinite colorless, then just use it into the deathmantle after saccing for black mana (so infinite of both).

You could also try some other ways to get infinite mana, Magus of the Coffers can combo with Sword of the Paruns or Umbral Mantle at 6 swamps, Staff of domination at 7.

Deserted Temple, Cabal Coffers, and Rings of Brighthearth goes infinite at 6 swamps, but that could include temple and cabal if you get lucky with urborg in play too for faster infinite.

I'd throw them in mostly because once you have infinite mana you can use a sac outlet to continually cast Gonti from command zone to "mill" each opponents library and cast all their spells to win.


--
As a last note, I'm of the opinion no monoblack is complete without copies of Withering Boon, Imp's Mischief, and Shred Memory. In a creature meta throw in a Darkness. In a combo meta or if you're trying to combo yourself then throw in a Nightcreep (eats a counterspell early or they have no U mana to cast counters besides force/pact)

>>51253364
Thank you so very much! It's rare you get such detailed and informative information on /edh/ so I greatly appreciate it. Will definitely tone done the cmc on my curve as well as add in what you suggested. If there are any other suggestions you have for stuff I should remove or things in general (especially interested to hear what your particular game winning cards are) I would love to hear them.

>>51253433
Forgot to mention, Rings of Brighthearth in general isn't bad if you throw the black fetchlands in, and goes well with your planeswalkers, current sac outlets, and a couple other minor things.

>>51253300
>>51253433
>>51253476
One final comment (for real this time): Cut Temple of the False God and Myriad Landscape. you run some other lands I think are bad but nothing worth bringing up besides those two. Replace with basic swamps or Deserted Temple like I mentioned earlier and then either basics or if you want spice add in Thespian's Stage and Vesuva to get extra cabal coffers

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>>51253237
np bro

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>>51253533
template

>>51253130
well I wouldn't make them start with commander but with those 30 card sample decks first.
then, for them, either kalemne, freyalise, ezuri, ob nixilis or nahiri precon, and for me the ob nixilis precon.
the precons are pretty great for playing against each other, and the ones i pointed out should be the easiest for a new player to grasp. i like to play black against new players to show them that life is a resource, because y'all know how protective they are of it at first.

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>>51253130
>Thread Topic
>You have a friend who has never played magic before and would like to get into commander. What deck do you build them? What deck do you play against them?

I do the whole "what colors represent you? " speel before anything, just to get the newbie excited, then once he/she has a color or two down (I usually recommend starting >3 colors) we go through the legendary creatures for that color combination/color. If it's a single color, I'll pull out about 10-15 different choices that all play pretty simple and are a relatively easy build. The most important thing for new players is simplicity. The player would choose one and I'd help build the list.

As far as what I'd play against the deck for the players first game or two: thassa ocean themed. It's purposely weak, and shows some basic (and a few not-so-basic) concepts without getting too complicated.

After he/she beats the "thassa tutorial " deck, I'd show the 15 or so decks I have and ask what he/she would like to play against. Obviously warning about any decks that are "tuned" or significantly more powerful etc etc.

I love teaching edh, and magic in general. So far I've gotten approximatelyyy 15 people into edh over the 5 years I've been playing (and that's not even counting the people those people taught! )

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>>51253567
>and that's not even counting the people those people taught!

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>local EDH group at college
>meta is control/combo, everyone splashes or mainly plays blue
>im a new player, the only aggro player running red/white
>get pooped on all the time and am consistently the worst player because all I like to do is swing out and get countered, or blocked from attacking
>
>continues for 4 months and gets to the point where they joke about me scooping once my commander is knocked off

>learn more about the game
>find out that land destruction is a thing

>go to group with pic related
>get mana base with artifacts
>play MLD cards
>play pic related with boots
>start pumping out creatures with haste
>slowly deal 21 to everyone with double strike

>get hated out of the match so quickly next game
>"Land destruction is a dirty way to play" talk
>yet its the only way to safely play aggro

So why is land destruction so hated on?

>>51253130
Trying to decide on three deck archetypes:

> Artifact Spam w/ Breya (Play many artifacts, either win with Hellkite Tyrant or stick Dragon Throne of Tarkir onto Darksteel Juggernaut / Master of Etherium / creature with Cranal Plating and beat face with errybody.)

> Thief deck, trying with Mimeoplasm (Play a deck playing another player's deck. Think Clones, Reanimates and Spelltwine.)

> Burn, trying with Queen Marchesa to no avail. (Small but steady damage to all opponents each turn, control board to avoid taking too much damage yourself.)

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>>51253601

Yeah, that's pretty accurate!

There's no feeling like watching your little brother teach his friends how to play edh after you teach him how to play edh, then joining his playgroup 3 years later because it outlived your original group

>>51253462
No problem anon. I'm just happy someone actually read my lengthy advice, and I like to help.

Now, I ran the deck with an emphasis on top deck manipulation and value. You want to ramp as hard as you can, then cast maelstrom as soon as possible. Every time you cast Maelstrom is value because it puts 2 additional cards on the field, so use that to your advantage. Sage Owl, Ponder, Preordain, Brainstorm, Cached Dreams, Brutalizer Exarch, Worldly Tutor and Mwonvuli Beast Tracker will all put things on top of your library, so the idea is to dump something good on top right before you pop maelstrom and double down on value with the cascade trigger.

In general, the creatures I listed were all game winners, and Kalonian Hydra is a personal favorite card of mine that needs to be answered right away, or you'll easily run away with the game. Heartless Hidestugu is pretty dickish, but undeniably effective, particularly if you have an established boardstate. Since Maelstrom doesn't have trample, Brawn is an excellent card, particularly with some of the more niche fatties, because he gives everything trample in the yard, and pairing it with Beserker's Onslaught, you can completely melt unprepared opponent's surprisingly early. Hamletback Goliath is actually really good in these kind of decks if you can get him out before the cascade trigger, though he is a dead draw most of the time. In general, you want to win through tempo. The idea is to play faster than your opponent, and provide more problems than they have solutions. Feldon of the Third Path is particularly spicy in this regard, because he lets you reanimate things that you play naturally, and they have to use their graveyard hate to stop him. An early Giant Adephage reanimated by Feldon will end a game quickly, as will an early Arcanis reanimated by Feldon.

(cont.)

>>51253661
>So why is land destruction so hated on?
because bads want to play battlecruiser magic with nothing but ramping and big creatures/spells that cost 8+ mana to cast and fuck you for playing to R/W's niche

>>51253661
As a stax/hatebears player I know your pain, people want to cast their big 7 mana spells and we are stopping them.

>>51253701
Now, for some non-budget recommendations, Sensei's Divining Top is a must-include for Maelstrom. I know it's like $20, but it's worth it to set up the insane cascade triggers. Xenagos is also particularly good in this deck because it allows you to create a massive threat, while also being an indestructible creature once you get enough devotion. Like I've been saying, try to build your deck around running very fast, at the cost of having a weak early game. If you make your opponents waste their removal on something before t6, you're in good shape because that means they'll have less answers later on.

Now, as for things I don't like in your deck, I did notice you updated your list, and took out a few things I didn't like. I'm not a fan of Mind's Dilatation, Urban Evolution, Zendikar's Resurgence, or Lurking Predators. They're all a little winmore because they aren't quite cost effective, and Elvish Piper is a thing. I much prefer your updated list, but try to cut some of the bigger things. Pathbreaker Ibex is awesome, particularly with overwhelming stampede, but if that`s the way you want to go, you might not have room for Part the Waterveil, Temporal Mastery, or Jolukampus, all of which seem a little misplaced in this sort of deck. If you want extra turns, you should run things that get those cards onto the battlefield. A well timed double strike will be just as effective, and your opponent needs to block a full boardstate after popping Maelstrom. I also like Urabrask in these decks because he`s the perfect tempo card, both slowing your opponent and speeding you up, but that`s just me.

>>51253300
I know this sounds silly, but run Exotic Orchard. Helps activate non-black abilities if the situation calls for it.

Picked up a Phyrexian Arena, Burgeoning, Juniper Order Ranger and BoP after finishing drafting my Conspiracy box, what edits should I make to include them, if at all? Deck list: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/ghave-guru-of-value-1/

>>51253661

You're doing God's work.

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>>51253661
>So why is land destruction so hated on?

Because it's """""feelbad"""""" to stop your opponent from playing the game.

You're doing nothing wrong anon. Being the last player in the game means you win, regardless of how you get to that point. Try building stax next.

anyone who says LD or stax is a "dirty" way to play was coddled in a scrub meta and should be promptly ignored

>>51253806
>>51253731
Amen

>>51253683
>Breya
A mate of mine is doing this. No infinite combos. So far it has yet to win a game despite displaying Breya's top-notch utility to her fullest. I'd recommend putting in a combo in there anyway to make it a "Plan B" or "C" if you so desire. You need to fall back if turning cards sideways doesnt work.

>Mimeoplasm
Tried it. I felt that the inclusion of Green is just there for the ramp. You do get to play Leovold if yoi have one, but I personally find Mimeoplasm better as a Reanimator/Combo general first, Stealstuff second.
>Queen Marchesa
You can technically play Queen Bitch as burn ala Reflect Damage type spells. Thats what I do with mine, anyway. Pillowfort, midrange stuff here and there, and use stuff like Phthisis, Rakdos Charm, Comeuppence, Netherborn Phalanx, etc to put everything back at the other guy. Excluding stopping a Krenko going infinite, my highest damage record was a 30 life loss from someone controlling a Worldspine Wurm.

But yeah, for you I'd say Breya. I don't personally play her but seeing her be played across from me I can assume she is good fun. Queen Marchesa is also not bad either

>>51253701
Thanks once again, Just have one question.
>>51253738
>Mind's Dilatation, Urban Evolution, Zendikar's Resurgence, or Lurking Predators
I can understand Mind's Dilation and possibly Urban Evolution, but why Zendikar's Resurgence? It gives mana ramp that is needed to cast Wanderer.

>>51253925
>I can understand Mind's Dilation and possibly Urban Evolution, but why Zendikar's Resurgence? It gives mana ramp that is needed to cast Wanderer.
Tempo. You're never going to cast Zendikar's Resurgent with 4 mana out so you can cast Maelstrom the next turn. While it has a powerful effect both in terms of mana production and card draw, the mana cost makes it kind of redundant, and I personally prefer cantrips. At 7 mana, realistically you're casting Maelstrom the next turn, or something ridiculous from your hand. While more mana is usually better, 14 mana is not going to make a heck of a lot of difference since you're getting two cards for free from Maelstrom. If you had good things in your hand, you probably already played them with the 6 mana you have available in the previous turns.

But that's just me. When I run ramp I prioritize things that put lands onto the battlefield, or generate multiple mana on a good ratio. This is the same reason I don't really like urban evolution. Drawing three is harmonize, and that's 2GG, or concentrate, and that's 2UU. Playing an additional land is really niche, particularly at 5 cmc when an explosive vegetation or harrow would do a little better. But really, I'm just nitpicking to try and reduce your CMC.

>>51253895
I also have a breya deck with no infinite combos.

If you want to win, add cards like Scrap Mastery, Open the Vaults or Roar of Reclamation usually does the trick.

>>51254006
I see. Thank you for the explanation. As I try to fill the remaining five slots in the deck now, should I focus more so on creatures or spells? And which ones would you prefer that are missing from the deck?

>>51254037
I'd focus on removal. You have nothing to answer threats.

Personally, I'd throw in Daze, Beast Within, Whipflare, Disdainful Stroke, and maybe Song of the Dryads? I guess that's a pretty versatile removal package, but you're still going to have issues in that department.

Now, I'd love to see Triumph of the Horde, Xenagos, Sensei's Divining Top, Overwhelming Stampede, and Garruk Wildspeaker, but that might make you a little too fragile, and I know most of those things are pretty expensive.

>>51254108
Oh, almost forgot.

If you want to build it on a budget, I'd suggest Pongify, Nevryinhal's Disk, Tribute to the Wild, Disdainful Stroke, and Lingify, though if you mix and match the two removal lists, you should have a pretty solid list of answers.

>>51253661
Why do point based leagues exist?
Some people play slow and get salty if they don't have the sustain to make a slow deck work.

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>>51253714
>>51253731
>>51253806
>>51253816
My biggest pet peeve with MLD try-hards are the ones who play it just for shit and giggles without some gameplan. The kind who end up getting the whole table in topdeck durdle mode.

And among these kind of players, these sadly are the majority.

>>51254263
That's the point of stacks though, you get ahead early with some creatures or whatever, and then you lock up the game with tanglewire, MLD, Torpor Orb, Smokestack etc, using your small advantage gained very early in the game to win

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I want to play a monoblack deck but can't decide on a general. I've narrowed it down to these guys, but even still I'm on the fence of either going control or animator.

>>51254563
gonti seems like the most fun

>>51254263

The people who play MLD for shits and giggles are a cancer to be sure. Granted, they can play it however they want, but they shouldn't bitch when they get BTFO in the following games.

But the MLD players who hose the idiots who ramp without regard for backup are still doing God's work. Someone has to teach those UGx shitters a lesson.

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>>51254563
>not running a commander as your commander
shiggy diggy do, where are you?

Does anyone have a unique enchantment theme for zur? Other than just goodstuff or stax?

>>51254563
Speaking as a player who has used most of those Commanders at any one point, I can tell you how good they are.

Anowon is to slow and there are better vampire Commanders if you wanna do tribal, Balthor is good only if you constantly dumpster on other people's graveyard if they're in monoblack, otherwise if they're running other colors, just do your own thing. Expect your graveyard to be hammered ALOT. Geth is awesome, fill the deck with lots of removal and mana doublers/boosters and have a fun time. Actually never tried Gonti, though he looks fun. If you want non-budget secret tech with him, try Tawnos's Coffin. Kalitas was my last Commander and he is awesome. Prevents other Reanimator decks from working, provides bodies for various effects, can effectively make himself bigger and gives life to top it all off. Going stax with cards that play off his abilities like Contamination and Magus of the Abyss is pretty dank. Maralen is just bad, don't even touch her. Everyone will either pull their combo pieces off and win before you or grab removal to make sure no one else does. Sheoldred is fun, a bit pricey manawise but able to be both a good beats Commander as well as a decent Reanimator one. Skithiryx is the spikiest choice out of all of them. As much fast mana and mana doublers as possible, all the spot removal and board wipes as you can, allthe good equipment you can stuff in there, various other cards for taste and done. Extremely effective.

>>51255044
Not him but i was looking at building sheoldred as a reanimator deck, what would you say are some must haves for her and also is the only way to stop graveyard hate packing anti artifact and enchantment cards or is there a way to play around it?

>>51255044
Hey, cool that you know your shit around mono black. I feel like building a mono black deck too, because there's so many cool cards like Mutilate that reward that, but all the mono black decks I've seen run almost all the same cards. Is there any black commander that sticks out and lets you go in a different direction that most? (this is true for most mono colors, i feel, but it seems most true with black)
I used to have Chainer with all the best etb effects, mana doublers, sac outlets and tutors, and i found myself always tutoring up the same 2-3 cards to win which got boring quickly. But i really wanna play black, man.

>>51254563

Kalitas stax

do it

>>51254563
>>51255044
i've been on a monoblack commander finding journey myself. i settled on a 99 (or like a 90, the last 9 cards would switch around a bit) pretty early on, then just tried to find a commander

i've gone through:


>endrek sahr, felt too weak, felt pigeonholed to playing stax, don't like stax
>kokusho, felt too strong for my group, kind of repetitive, uninteractive and bpring at times
>erebos, felt okay, just kind of meh for my 99, could be good for a non-reanimator type "cast mana doublers and big spells" kind of monoblack
>sheoldred, felt meh, too slow, too mana intensive. i felt like i usually wanted to revive tons of shit on the same turn and then quickly sac the same stuff for grave pact effects and stuff, sheoldred didn't cater to that
>liliana, felt okay, i just didn't want to build for the discard theme so abandoned it
>gonti is very fun and useful at times, but i felt like it wasn't strong enough as a wincon that my deck ended up durdling a lot of time. my 99 doesn't have enough blowouts that i could reliably be relevant with gonti
>balthor the defiled, was surprisingly powerful, although pretty gimmicky. works best when you mill in a table with no other black/red players. but usually, even if you revive someone else's stuff it doesn't usually matter that much since you're playing monoblack and can kill shit with ease. abandoned it to build a similar deck in dimir
>geth, didn't feel like it was worth the mana-cost and the build-around. chainer seemed outright better when tested in geth's 99

that basically has lead me to building my 99 to basically work with 3 commanders

>chainer for reanimating tons of shit for cheap, mainly opposing creatures
>yahenni for a weird creature-hate-pseudo-voltron thing. feels kind of janky still, maybe needs optimization or maybe it's just bad
>gonti for games where i want to just goof around

hope u enjoyed my blog guys

also maralen is shit dont build her

>>51255192
having done a ton of monoblack shit, here's the ones that come to mind for me:

>balthor mill, just mill yourself a TON as fast as possible and then pop balthor. it's like a twilight's call in the command zone, except it's somewhat asymmetrical. probably not that great in black-heavy metas since you'd have to GY hate others a lot, or just rely on ETBs, grave pact effects and board wipes to even the score after reanimating

>Erebos/Toshiro spellslinger, basically just build for tons of mana and huge big spells. cast corrupt, cast exsanguinate for 25, etc. erebos is good because he gives you draw in the command zone, letting you cycle through your deck with ease, and toshiro lets you get extra value out of instants. erebos seems outright better for this build.

there's also these fun gimmicky ones like "target all creatures" horobi but that's not really special enough to warrant a hugely different 99, it'd just be a normal monoblack 99 but with some commander synergy sprinkled in

>>51255135
A few must-haves for Sheoldred would include Gray Merchant, Reaper from the Abyss, Sidisi, Harvester of Souls, Xiahou Dun, Sangromancer, and Obliterator. There isn't too many ways to bust artifacts and enchantments in monoblack unless you grab colorless options and/or Gate to Phyrexia but Witchbane Orb and Orbs of Warding help save your graveyard from being fucked by the likes of Tormod's Crypt and Bojuka Bog.

>>51255192
Gonti, nuKalitas and Toshiro Umezawa the most unique, in particular Toshiro. Monoblack storm is hilarious and even if you go value instants, he's a blast. Null Profusion is best card.

Wouldn't this be the best way to build a scarecrow "tribal" with Reaper King?

>9-13 of the most low CMC scarecrows
>9-17 good ways to flicker them or abuse their ETBs a lot from every color, deadeye navigator, conjurer's closet, brago, panharmonicon, rite of replication, etc.
>maybe a bit of reanimation too, why not
>fill rest with the typical draw/ramp/goodstuff package

i see edhrec people putting fucking 7 mana scarecrows into their decks, but that seems retarded to me when you can just run the really cheap ones and then abuse their etbs

>>51255417
ok for some reason i forgot about changelings existing. not sure if it's worth doing a flicker theme if you can run all the shitty 1-3 drop changelings. still, seems like it would be worth it to run at least something mass flickery alongside it, like brago or maybe even something like cauldron of souls with a sac outlet

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>>51255417
The best way to build tribal scarecrows? See pic related.

However if you truly want to try it properly, there aren't many Scarecrows worth the effort. It's a very unsupported tribe. In the recent sets you have Geist-Fueled Scarecrow, Wild-Field Scarecrow and Metallic Mimic; apart from that there isn't much else.

>>51255417
>>51255485
What if someone kills your commander constantly and you can't cast it for some reason. What do you do then?

>>51253300
Strands of night andcloudstone curio will give you more redundancy for abusing all those sweet ETBs.

>>51253661
>So why is land destruction so hated on?
Because it can completely hose people. My group is pretty OK with it, I think because I introduced it early with my first non-shit deck made of actual good cards and not pack fodder

>>51255305
Ah thats cool, so her basic includes are going to be reanimater creatures and spells, big black mana ramp, big guys to reanimate+creatures that effect the board, sac outlets, and i'd like to have a bunch of taxing effects like contamination and smokestax is that something that works in mono black or should i avoid it?

what are the commander you absolutely hate? the one that makes you groan when you see it across the table because you know the game is about to suck

for me its meren

>>51256412
Memnarch. By far my worst MU

>>51256296
>Because it completey hoses scrubs
FTFY

>>51256515
This.
If a single card gets you the win every game, the others deserve to lose anyway.

>>51256515
I didn't want to say scrubs because I'm nice like that but it's true. First time I played the deck with MLD, my group got completely blown out because of a lack of mana rocks

>>51256412
Teferi.
Mainly because that guy runs it, and the majority of my LGS seeing proactive plays as a bad thing, despite knowing letting him set up is stupid.
"Why are you attacking me? I've done nothing"
"That's precisely the point"
So more often than not, I choose to become the martyr in order to avoid waiting around for an hour of Stasis before a group concession.

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>>51256412
Nekusar

>>51256637
>and then i wheel
>and then i wheel
>and then i wheel
>and then i wheel

Can anyone take a look at my Kami of the crescent moon stasis deck? See if I'm missing important cards, and if a deck like this can even work.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/i-a-m-t-h-e-l-a-w/

>>51256412
>Meren
I don't feel like this is that bad, if she starts going off with Birthing Pod stuff it can get really bad, but any GY hate really messes her up.
>>51256506
7 mana do nothing that has two easy to remove permanent types really doesn't seem that bad, if you let him start stealing lands though I can see where the problem would be.
>>51256637
I'll give you this one, Nekusar is a huge pain to deal with, though drawing all the cards lets you find a answer pretty quick. Giving him infect leads to really fast kills though.

My least favorite is Maelstrom Wanderer or Atraxa.
>MW
Cascading into MLD is a pain, Food Chain is an absurdly powerful card.
>Atraxa
Planeswalker spam is annoying to deal with, since so many of them have ways to protect themselves from creatures, Doubling Season sucks.
tell me why I'm a scrub for hating the commanders I do

>>51253504
Not him, but what's wrong with temple of the false god?

>>51256412
Zur. It's never not degenerate.

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>>51254563
You're missing the most fun guy of the bunch in that list

Some one in the last thread was asking how you can exile something permanently with fiend hunter. Figured I'll explain it here since the other thread is about to 404.
>Fiend Hunter ETBs, trigger of exiling a creature goes on the stack
>Sac him before the trigger resolves, usually with Ashnods
>Death trigger goes on the stack
>death trigger resolves before etb trigger, nothing to return to hand
>etb trigger resolves, exiling a creature.
This only works because he has the two abilities, stuff like Banisher Priest won't work.

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Share em

>>51257388
Can you choose shadow if no creatures on the board have it, just to give it to one of your creatures? This seems like good tech.

>>51253130
>THE MOOSE IS LOOSE
God, it's been over a decade since I played Timesplitters.

>>51257532
No you have to steal it from a creature.
>It's a great spicy defense against a lot.
The steal effect is so good in defense and even better when opponents try attack eachother.

>>51257532
No, you can't. This is because the ability wouldn't have a legal target. Just use Dauthi Embrace or something

>>51257589
>>51257595
"If the target which is having the ability removed does not have that ability during the resolution of this effect, then this effect still grants the chosen ability. The reason is that the second target is still legal even if the first one is not."

>>51257667
To be clear this doesn't mean you can target a creature without the abilities. Just if they lose the ability, the effect of splicer is still legal.

>>51257667
But wait, that only says that it still works if something else removes the ability before the splicer ability resolves.

What I wanna know is if you can just use the ability when no creature on the board has the ability you choose.

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What do people think of this card? It's pretty much just a worse fog bank/guard gomazoa, but black doesn't get too much pillowfort, so I'm tempted to say that it's prettt good.

>>51257743
You can't, no. A creature needs to have the ability to be a legal target.

>>51254263
When you don't have MLD then ramp decks go wild with no checks or balances. If you can't choke mana then you'll lose to any ramp deck.

For example, a guy I occasionally play with has a Kruphix deck and all it does is ramp, play big Eldrazi, and counterspells. Without any way to stop his mana acceleration the deck will win easily. But if you can stax it out then you should be okay.

It may be "feelbad" but it's a necessity to the format. I've tried dozens of ways of stopping ramp without MLD (stax effects, limiting effects like Gaddock Teeg, etc) and none of them work as well as an Armageddon.

For the record my stax deck is Titania and it often wins by comboing Living Plane with Cursed Totem/Ezuri's Predation.

>>51257797
This. If stax didn't exist, then combo decks and ultra ramp wouldn't really have bad matchups. While some people hate to play against it (I personally love trying to dismantle a stax lock), it's a necessary part of the meta.

>>51257667
Yeah, just like in card Hex, when you cast it, it needs to have 6 separate targets, but if one becomes illegal, such as with gaining Hexproof, other 5 still die to hex.
You need a shadow creature on field for this card to give shadow, you can't steal something if it doesn't exist.

>>51257861
Oh well, still good for flying evasion I guess.

>>51256412
Jhoira

It's never anything but suspending titans then destroying all lands

>>51253130
Well first off, I don't teach them how to play magic with fucking commander

>>51256412
Atraxa. Mainly because she just disappointed me. Like there's no interesting way of building her, it's either +1/+1 counters, stax, or superfriends. Now everyone and their grandmother is playing her and card prices are starting to bump up if they involve counters at all.

Out of my playgroup though, I really don't hate any of their decks, the ones I really dislike are the ones that take a long ass time to do everything and don't even win the game on that turn. I've had friends take like 3+ turns in a row with Time Walks and end up just passing and losing to a boardwipe.

>>51256412
Daxos of Meletis.

Oh look, an unblockable 3 drop that lets you cast things off the top of my library. It`s almost like I have much better cards than you or something.

I am sorta building an Edric deck. If I don't use infect, what should my wincons be?

>>51258086
Beastmaster Ascension or other Overrun effects combined with extra turn effects.

>>51256849
It's a noob trap. The extra one mana on turns 5+ aren't going to matter that much, and too often you draw into it before you have the lands required to even use it. Then there's the colorless vs black mana problem

>>51256412
What is the actual problem with Derevi? Being constantly present isn't problem enough, and the hits have to connect with a player if I even have other creatures on the field

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Why aint you running this yet in all your green token decks?

>>51255288
>>51255240
>>51255192
>>51255044
>>51254563

Here's my list for an Erebos deck for competitive EDH. For casual EDH you could cut a lot of the money cards/infinite combos and it still functions well. That one guy is right, having indestructible constant card draw is extremely potent

>>51258131
I pretty much never have an issue with it. 4 lands in play on turn 4 is never an issue for me, to me it just seems like free ramp.
I've literally never had it on the field without being able to use it. Of course, I don't play it in decks that have low average cmc (since colored mana is far more important in those), but in other decks I'm always glad to see it.

>>51258153
The effect is very powerful and often breaks symmetry on a lot of effects. It can turn your creatures into a Turnabout and let you just keep dumping your hand or have mana up to interact. That's not even mentioning stax effects like Stasis.

Even in hyper casual Derevi decks she's still incredibly good. Having constant access to a creature that can tap down attackers or other key permanents is annoying.

On a side note, why is Wizards so awful on designing commanders specifically for commander? Like their commander products differ extensively in quality. For example, they print good and potentially broken commanders like Bluezuri but they stick awful ones like Kaseto in the same box. The only precon commander I've been glad with is Titania.

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>>51253130
Black Zombies
>Almost all started in my playgroup with black zombies.
Except me who made his first deck with this rapist.

>>51258131
I disagree.

Sure, if you have a quality manabase, I can see not needing to run those cards, but in general, if you're building a budget brew, they'll help you more than they'll hurt you, particularly Temple of the False God. Curving off one piece of ramp into a t5 temple of the false god is an exceptionally good play, and while you're right that late game mana isn't as important, 99% of lands you hit late game aren't going to help you out that much.

Now, terramorphic expanse is just a reskinned evolving wilds. If you need mana fixing, it's amazing, if you don't need it, don't use it.

There's also that one spicy land, where it taps for colourless and you can pay 2 mana to fish two basics, but I can't remember what it's called. I put that shit in every deck I run.

>>51257320
The logic of the second trigger can only follow the first trigger, cards I will not play

>>51258164
I don't have a green tokens deck yet. I should build Wort but I can't stand at my translated copy and Lorwin cards are hard to come by in South America.

>>51258264
*I can't stand looking at

>>51258241
Myriad Landscape I think

>>51258241
Even for my "budget" mana bases I just cut it, the amount of times you draw it in your opening hand as a dead card compared to the amount of times it actively helps you ramp is astonishing.

In EDH, getting access to 6 mana of turn 5 isn't amazing by any means. Playing other mana rocks doesn't help turn it on either, so it's only good on hitting your land drops per turn, and if you're playing a deck that ramps out lands aggressively, why bother playing Temple anyway when you can just play another land to ramp out with a Kodama's Reach?

In budget brews, you'll only want it in a monocolored deck because your color fixing will already be poor in a budget multicolored deck. Yet in monocolored decks I'd still rather run a utility land (Ghost Quarter is cheap and offers an answer to broken lands like Gaea's Cradle) and just ramp with inexpensive mana rocks.

And yes, I'd much rather play Myriad Landscape before Temple. The Landscape ramps you later in the game whilst not being dead early in the game and helps the "land types matter" cards (Cabal Coffers, Emeria, High Tide, Valakut, etc).

tl;dr: Temple never feels like you're doing anything broken and in the end barely helps you compared to just playing a land that taps for a color or adds some utility.

>>51258194
>Kaseto is bad
If you're trying to run The Great Snake Mistake maybe.

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>>51258296
Said pretty much everything I would have said in reply

>>51258305
If I'm playing Voltron I can just play better colors with better buffs.

If I'm playing infect I'm already making a mistake by playing infect in a multiplayer format.

Meanwhile I'm playing Ezuri and can just slam Sage of Hours and win on the spot, not to mention the ease of getting experience counters and the amount of abusive potential he has.

There's a huge discrepancy in power level in that deck.

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>>51258170
Just realized I never actually linked the deck. Sorry, I just woke up. here you go

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/primer-competitive-erebos-god-of-mana/

>>51258277
Yup, that's the one. Probably tied with ghost quarter for most underrated budget land.

>>51258296
That is a reasonable point, I guess we just have different philosophies. The way I understand it is that 99% of the time, you're getting advantage. When I make budget brews, I try to prioritize basic land ramp whenever possible, and I can count on one hand the number of times it's fucked me over in game, having temple in my hand, because I tend to fish basics at an accelerated rate.

I look at it like a conditional sol ring. I get 2 mana for the price of one, on the condition it comes out late game, and while that may be a big condition, I play very rampy tempo-style decks, so I usually have 5 lands by like t4, not including rocks. Most of my stuff pops off at the 5-6 mana mark, and I can't tell you how many times that one extra mana from Temple has allowed me to combo off with ghave, or cast 2 cards instead of one.

Then again, I'm also that guy with a fetish for basic lands, so I'm probably biased.

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>>51258218
>Friend introduced me to EDH, I just borrowed decks at first
>He suggested that I should build my own decks, I agreed
>He told me to build something that's fun and that fits me
>Next session I showed up with reanimator hand control, won every match
>After 2 sessions they asked me to build a different deck to spice things up (I think they just hated the deck I built)
>Next session I showed up with stax
>Told me I needed to build more interactive decks
>Next session I showed up with mardu board wipe tribal and combat tricks to give all my dudes indestructible, with a side of MLD
>After that session they asked me if I maybe wanted to borrow their decks again

I have many much more casual decks now, but that month was hilarious.

>>51258353
I guess it's just a problem of different mindstates. I'm primarily a competitive player, where "budget" is still a couple hundred dollars, and it seems like you're more of a casual player. (i don't mean that in a rude way or anything so I'm sorry if it comes off like that). I'm looking at it through my lens of holding up in a competitive game and obviously it wouldn't do well there. But i will admit in a more laid back and cheaper meta it wouldn't be that much of a problem

>>51258353
I'll never scoff at anyone for playing a Temple of the False God so I respect your opinion on it. My big issue is that Sol Ring is busted because you can play it on early turns and end up essentially on turn 4-5 while your opponents are on turn 2-3. When you're already rocking a ton of mana, drawing Sol Ring feels like a dead card.

Just from my personal experience, as a guy who loves monocolored decks and rocks a deck of each monocolored, I've tried it in there and eventually whittled it out in favor of something else. Then again my monocolored decks have drifted away from the budget area and frequently rock Wasteland, Strip Mine, and the "land types matter" cards I mentioned earlier.

>>51258194
This precon came with Derevi, Roon and Rubinia Soulsinger, Lady Azami, and the 1/3 Horsemanship guy. It's the only precon I've seen and I'm sure it's the most powerful there is.
I thought Derevi with big creatures would be alright with more than two players but I haven't even settled on a deck to try

>>51258353
Even if I have temple in my opening hand, 90% of the time I can just play 4 other lands in the first 4 turns and then play it turn 5, the only time where it's dead is if you're manascrewed anyway, so I don't really see a downside.

>>51257320
How can the permanent be a legal target of sacrifice before it enters the battlefield?

>>51258393
Ironically enough, I brew budget decks for competitive metas.

You're right, I personally don't have a single deck that costs more than $200, so I have to make sacrifices when it comes to the landbase. That being said, quality deck building and a solid game plan have won me more matches than I ought to, particularly against expensive decks.

Based on my experience, below $500, you can get away with running something between $125 and $200 if you're a better deck builder and don't mind researching specific jank. Over $500, the sheer efficiency of their mana base will make you lose a lot of games. The problem is, when you brew budget, you need to brew tempo. The difference between a very expensive deck and a budget brew is the resiliency to disruption and the reliable manafixing. For exmaple, my Ghave deck is like $150, and I recently chumped two competitive tables at a local tournament, and came third overall. Why? Because the first match I wasn't seen as a threat compared to Spike McCockswain and his $2000 mimeoplasm deck, or that one guy running Derevi, and the second match, I had a magical christmasland hand that nuked the table t4. After that? People focused their removal on me, and while I didn't come in last at the final table, I never really had a chance.

>>51258432
I actually steer clear from monocoloured decks because they're too expensive to make good. Most of what I build is tri/dual colour because it allows me to compensate for something that a monocolour doesn't do very well. For example, I built Volrath Reanimator a while back, and while it was a pretty solid monoblack deck, the second I splashed Blue and made it Lazav, it went from a mediocre durdle-fest to a late game pub stomper for under $100. But, to tune my volrath deck to that point, I'd need to invest some serious coin in a quality mana base with the types of cards you've mentioned, as well as some stronger/cheaper pieces to enable my shenanigans.

>>51258525
I'm glad someone recognizes that monocolored decks aren't just budget alternatives. A monocolored landbase is often $100+, it's not just 37+ basic lands. Like you play monocolors so you can play utility lands. I can splurge for a Tower of the Magistrate in my monowhite deck but I'd be damned if I threw it into a 4-5 color deck.

>>51258521
ETB triggers go on the stack when something enters the battlefield. This means that the the creature is already on the battlefield at this point, and therefore a legal target.

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>>51258525

>>51258612
I would think the creature and ability resolve simultaneously.

>>51256412
Arcum Daggson. You just know you are going to be dealing with a lot of stupid artifact shenanigans.

There needs to be more 'exile all artifacts' effects

Got a paradox engine at prerelease. This shit any good or is garbage in edh as well?

>>51258628
its two different abilities anon-kun. one for when he enters, one for when he leaves.

Stack:
Creature enters the battlefield. Targets the Arbor Elf.

before it resolves, I activate Ashnod's Altar and sac fiend hunter for {2}. This puts the leave trigger on the stack.

Stack:
Return the Arbor Elf to play.
Exile the Arbor Elf.

first one resolves but there's no Arbor Elf to return so the stack is:
Exile the Arbor Elf

then it resolves, and the elf is byebye forever

>>51258648
It's very good to the point where it was considered for a preemptive banning on the latest ban announcement.

Play it in any deck that plays a lot of mana rocks, tap effects, or mana dorks. I play it in Kiki Jiki, my friend plays it in Selvala, it's amazing in both of them.

>>51258525
In my experience monocolored decks don't have manabases that are too expensive. I generally try to stay around 33 basics and 5 utility lands, it hardly ever ends up being more than 20 dollars for me. Of course, if I was running the absolute best of the best (gaea's cradle and the like) then it would be very expensive, but that's hardly necessary for a good manabase.

>>51258648
It will likely be banned next ban update. It is on the level of Ad Nauseam or Doomsday, if not even better, but with the added benefit of making casual players cream their pants too so Sheldon might actually take action

>>51258628
Nope, it enters, then the trigger of "when this enters...." goes on the stack and can be responded to.

>>51258596
>Like you play monocolors so you can play utility lands.
That's exactly my experience. When I built memnarch, it was nice having access to to all those niche lands that I couldn't quite fit into something better. I had a full suite of eldrazi lands, and since memnarch is pretty rampy as it is, they worked gangbusters. Sanctum of Ugin is an all star in that deck because it allowed me to cast memnarch, and fish basically anything I want for the next play, particularly if doubling cube/gilded lotus is out.

>>51258668
Well, you don't NEED an expensive mana base, and I'm one of those people who ran almost the same ratio that you did, but if you want to take your deck from casual to mid-tier, or mid-tier to low-high-tier, it really requires a lot of money to fix stuff, particularly in nongreen decks.

>>51258670
I wouldn't say it's on that power level, it's a great card but it does require some set up to work. Like you can't just play nothing but lands and then a Paradox Engine and have it considered "broken." You need an extensive amount of mana rocks or dorks or tappers to make it work.

It hate comparing everything to Deadeye Navigator but it's a card that combos very easily and requires very little to be abusive. Like you can just hit Peregrine Drake with it an have infinite mana and thus infinite blinks.

That's not to say Paradox Engine is bad, but if your opponents are boardwiping creatures and hitting mana rocks then it's an unexciting card and it doesn't exactly "make" decks like Deadeye Navigator does.

Is Karona a fun commander for a pillowforty, "attack everyone but me" kind of deck?

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>>51258613

>>51258683
should have been, "After..."

>>51258709
Maybe I'm just missing something, but I have a mono blue stasis/stax deck that makes everyone draw 20 million cards, and besides 32 islands I run maze of ith, terrain generator, coral atoll, ice floe, forsaken city and some mana rocks, and I have absolutely never had any issies with my manabase. Maybe it's just that the deck doesn't need too much ramp (average cmc is 3,2), but it fucking trashes tables unless I can't get my pillowfort cards out and get hated out quickly.

>>51258657
so you don't see the logic

>>51258816
It depends on the deck.

Also never count Maze of Ith or lands that don't tap for mana as lands, count them as spells. Lands tap for mana. Maze of Ith is a glorified artifact.

Also why are you playing Forsaken City in a monocolored deck? Or any deck for that matter?

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>>51258665
So basically play it in an expensive commander? I might as well sell it, fucking prerelease

>>51258803
No no, the ability happens when it enters, it's just that abilities are their own thing. Abilities can't resolve simultaneously, so the creature has to enter to trigger it's ETB effect.

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>>51253237

>>51258816
Well, the issue isn't so much getting access to the mana you need, it's just that as you spend more money on a better landbase, you realize you don't need THAT much devotion, and it gives your lands extra utility. For example, if you can run strip mine, ghost quarter, tectonic edge, and a few other lands that blow up lands, why would your run targeted land destruction?

Anyways, I haven't slept yet so
>tl;dr Fancy lands let you take redundant cards out of the 99 in monocolours, or help you focus your strategy a little better. It's not like you're going to miss out, particularly when you only need 3 or 4 blue producing lands to cast everything in your deck.

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>>51258865
alright fine

>>51258851
The deck draws like Clint Eastwood, so I can get away with 35-37 mana producing lands. The deck generally has way too many cards due to howling mine, kami of the crescent moon, temple bell, otherworldly atlas etc, so exiling cards from hand doesn't really matter. Forsaken city is in there for when I have cards like stasis out, I can pay for it every turn.

>>51258855
Elfball can be a relatively inexpensive deck and can play it and honestly a lot of mana rocks are pretty cheap. Sol Ring, Basalt Monolith, Thran Dynamo, Worn Powerstone, Hedron Archive, Dreamstone Hedron, etc all work well with it. Mana rocks only creep towards the "too expensive" phase when you hit Grim Monolith and Mana Crypt. Mana Vault and Gilded Lotus can even be had for around $10.

Side note the Selvala deck I mentioned was GW Selvala, not the monogreen one. It's basically an elfball deck but Selvala taps for usually 2-4 mana and refills your hand.

>>51258628
>>51258521
You don't really play MtG do you? Abilities can always be responded to and that's why stack exists. If everything would happen like you think, counterspells would also be useless.

>>51258927
you were supposed to say, "it's not logic, it's m a g i c"

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>>51257069
>guy

>>51258927
you would just counter the creature, but for red to be as viable as blue you are able to bolt the creature when it is there but before it does anything

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>>51258789

>>51258899
Ah, I see. I guess the deck matters too, the only really expensive land that I'd want to run in my deck would be Tabernacle, but I'm not that far gone yet so the manabase ends up cheap.

>>51258961
That's not what can happen though. Colors aren't designed to be as "viable" as each other, just have advantages over each other in certain ways.

Like honestly people here can keep telling you the rules but if you doubt it, ask a judge at your LGS or something. It's the rules of the game, even if you don't think it fits your "logic."

>>51258068
My god this bait

>>51259146
Why is it bait anon? I mean, if you're going to call every post bait you should explain yourself.

I hate playing against daxos because either you pop an early, cheap creature, which renders their deck completely trivial, or he's going to hit you at least once, with the off-chance of getting some magical christmasland luck. I'm just particularly salty because of a t1 sol ring into a t2 daxos, into my tree of predition t3. You couldn't make that shit up, but it happened.

Have any of you ever swapped all the basic lands in one of your decks so that you can use scrying sheets and other snow jank? How effective was it?

>>51259375
I'm trying to play all snow lands in Titania. Sunstone is pretty dank tech as is Mouth of Ronom, plus Into the North becomes a Rampant Growth that also gets Dark Depths, Scrying Sheets, or Mouth of Ronom.

>>51254563
Realistically, I'd pick Chainer as a reanimator general. However, I play Gonti and make sure I have plenty of win conditions in the 99. Gonti is there if you like to improvise and make clutch plays using your opponents. He wins through oppurtunity.
Manage to snag a Genesis Wave from an Omnathfag? You're playing big mana yourself anyway.
Get a Time Warp? Now you can Conjurers Closer your casted Gray Merchant for a total of 3 triggers.
Even snag a counterspell? No sweat. Now you have protection when you decide to combo off.

I personally think of Gonti like this: Gonti will never give you what you need. He will always give you something you can use later. His win con is in your 99, 90% of the time.

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>>51253237

>>51254563
If you are on a small budget play Gonti, buy a blade of selves and play everyone elses deck.

>>51259375
I use them just so I'm the only one who gets value off of my Extraplanar Lens. It also let's me use Into The North as another piece of ramp. It doesn't help a ton, but I mostly just love snow lands and want to see more "X covered lands" in the future.

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Here's a shout out for my boy fleshbag marauder 2: a bigger blacker orc.

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>Hydra tribal isn't viable, anon! - Playgroup
>Their faces when I'm shitting out 200/200 hydras a turn and equipping mage slayer to them
Timmys ww@?

>>51258296

You actually convinced me. I had to take something out to put a Temple of Mystery into Newzuri so goodbye, false god

>>51259703

>mage slayer

so ulasht, right?

>>51259702
I pulled a foil of this in a draft once. It's been in my Sheoldred deck ever since

>>51259822
Xenagos is commander. Nothing sweeter than swinging a 200/200 Savageborn Hydra, making it 400/400, with a Kalonian Hydra to make it 600/600 with mage slayer and then in second main phase predators rapporting it.

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So after getting steamrolled by some dudes with super competitive 2k dollar decks, I'm now second guessing all my decks and my skills as an EDH player.

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need some help on this brew
volgath budget
I know cabal crypt would be a fookin legend but I'm trying to keep this deck around 60 bucks
any spicy tech im missing?
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/17-01-17-die-die-die/
this is mostly just to facesmash my friends when i get frustrated

>>51258963
I wanna fuck that bait

>>51258897
you got a list for that Avacyn deck? I'm trying to do something similar.

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>>51260137

>>51260308
Sure. Been changing it a lot lately trying to improve it. Only so much I can do with mono white, though.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/avacyns-angels-2016/

>>51260020
If it helps at all, post your decks and I am sure we can get you some suggestions that don't cost a bunch.

Pls ;_;

>>51260354
thats gonna go in, thank you anon

>>51257797
Do you have a list for your Titania stax deck?

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Spicy tech for Hypnotoad?

>>51260137
>http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/17-01-17-die-die-die/
Well, you've done pretty well. Your deck suffers from the problems that every volrath does: way too many high CMC creatures, but that's part of the schtick. To make volrath good, you need to be able to discard things from your hand for value, or they just clog you up until you play your commander.

Also, I don't really like your fatties. Yes, you're running big things, but a lot of them are extremely underwhelming when they hit the field, like Devouring Strossus, Necropolis Fiend, and those delve cards. You do have some spicy tech to make volrath unblockable, but from playtesting, your hand is pretty clogged until t6ish most games because of these creatures.

I'd suggest rethinking your fatties. I personally like Ophiomancer and Sengir Autocrat early game, and Body Snatcher is great for this type of deck. Bane of Bala Ged is one of the better eldrazi. In my Volrath deck, I ran Avatar of Woe, Abhorant Overlord, Sepulchral Primordial, Desecration Demon, Reaper from the Abyss, Patherazer of Ulamog, Archfiend of Depravity, and Lim-Dul as my budget fatties. Read the Bones and Night's Whisper should also be in this deck, along with Languish and Toxic Deluge, if that one fits in your budget.

I personally like Massacre Wurm a lot, but it's quite expensive. Victimize and Diabolic Servitude are some budget reanimator options as well if that's the way you want to go.

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>>51260943
ob nixilis with landfall
splendid reclamation
AND
skrige familiar
exsanguinate
anything with dredge +3
enjoy

>>51260956
thank you anon, i will take this into heavy consideration
i appreciate your time

>>51260982
No problem anon, I'm happy to help. If you have any more questions feel free to ask.

>>51260963
Damn, Darkmor Salvage, Skirge Familiar and Gitrog goes inf right? Then play exsanguinate for inf keks. But damn Ob is value going to add him to the list. tyty

>>51254563

Listen to >>51255209. You won't regret it.

>>51261067
yessir
gitrog is spicy
look into titania too
free 5/3 elemental every upkeep with gitrog out
try to get crucible of worlds

What are some must-haves and spicy tech for Rakdos group slug?

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>>51260137
pic related

>>51261087
Got Crucible, im gonna try and get Titania, seems like theres low supply here in sweden.

>>51253185
why not just build this if you're going for the budget approach?
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/ultra-budget-maelstrom-wanderer/

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>>51261345
>budget
>200 dollars

>>51260943
Dakmor Salvage + any discard outlet
Congrats you deck is in your hand/graveyard, now pick any of your favorite reanimation shenanigans and go nuts.

Also landfall triggers are the spiciest of techs.

>>51257764
I run it in my Doran/wall EDH deck. if you can get banding going, most opponents insta-concede

>>51261362
Imo budget is >$100

>>51260368
thanks man

>>51261529
cool, so my 3000 dollar deck is budget?

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>>51260368
>http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/avacyns-angels-2016/
might I suggest Fated Retribution? an instant speed boardwipe is a dangerous thing

>>51261691
It was in there but I took it out to make room for Catastrophe.

>>51261726
I see. I would personally have switched fumigate instead, but the again I don't know your meta. I really like the card because its an instant and not a sorcery. Also I'm hella jealous of all those foil cards you have

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>>51260137

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>>51260137
This doesn't really help much overall but it's great for dealing with green decks/fetch lands

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>>51253237
anyone who doesn't post their basics is a bitch nigga

>>51262099
>having all lands with the same art
I'm slowly making my Sheoldred deck all foil swamps/zendikar ones

>>51262099
>Not complaining about mld every time you play so you can enjoy running 0-3 basics in your decks

>>51261691
I misread that as saying "It's your turn" instead of "If it's your turn" and got really excited for a second.

>>51253130
Meren, maybe Newzuri, because they're cheap to build and piss easy to pilot.

>>51260137
This deck has no early game. Your curve is deceptive, because most of your 1-2 mana spells are auras or rituals that you won't be casting until later in the game. Drop sphere and ingot for 2 cost rocks and wayfarer's bauble. Cheap ETB dorks can also give you something to do early and provide repeat value with a reanimate/raise dead engine. You can drop most of the infect package to make room since it's kind of redundant with commander damage. Fleshbag/Merciless Executioner are two of my go tos. Phyrexian Rager and the black SOM replica work. Liliana's Shade and Specter aren't bad. Cycling creatures would also work for your purposes since many have high CMC. Street Wraith especially, since it doesn't cost mana. As for the engine cards themselves, Oversold Cemetary is probably good in this deck, and Soul of Innistrad, since it can be pitched then exiled or cast to repeatedly recur other creatures. Oath of Ghouls is also probably solid. Dawn of the Dead puts your guys into play and with a sac outlet they go back to the yard instead of exile. Stratodon and Phage seem really dicey, Demon of Dark Schemes is an affordable upgrade.

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>>51262099
>non-matching basics

>>51261362
Anything can be budget if you're rich enough.

>>51261345
>http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/ultra-budget-maelstrom-wanderer/
Meh/10. My $160 Ghave will combo off three turns before you do anything. It'll work against turbo scrubs, but it's far too niche to be worth building.

>>51262359
man half my shit is on theme
I go by feel of basics and not autistic matching

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>>51262401
>half

>>51261917
>I see. I would personally have switched fumigate instead
Haha, thanks man. Most of them are from the FTV angels set though...

And yeah, you might be right. I'll have to do some reconsidering, maybe. I just figured, before, that Rout was enough as far as instant-speed wraths went. And I like it's versatility as you can cast it as a sorcery for only 5.

>>51258447
Oh God no. The precon is absolutely pathetic. It lacks a serious win condition. It has plenty of individual good cards but absolutely no coherent plan.

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Constantly building new decks, or pimping out the few that you have?

>>51262605
My thinking is that fumigate is situational and you really don't need the lifegain

>>51262892
currently pimping this:
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/orzhovian-lifegain-cancer/
I should be getting a bunch of new cards soon.

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So I have been thinking of making a Hope of Ghirapur deck, on paper my list looks flaky and I was wondering if anyone has some suggestions?

>http://decks.deckedbuilder.com/d/267810

>>51254563
Gonti or Maralen Goodstuff.

>>51257550
>TimeSplitters
MAH NIGGA

>>51263537
It looks like you've got a good amount of Equipment Voltron. Do more of that. Go all in and buy the five Swords of X and Y, because you won't need to worry about color anyways. Also, Steel Overseer. Quintessential robot lord.

>>51259268
have valid blockers/disruption/removal?

take note that daxos's ability lets him cast the card as if it were mana of any COLOR not any TYPE. So if he tries converting anus mana into something else or vise/versa, call him out.

>>51256689
Does nobody have any feedback? I'd really appreciate if people who are more familiar with stax/turbostasis than I am could take a look.

>>51253130
I understood that reference.

>>51257550
Yeah buddy.

>>51259268
from the first post I thought you had trouble with him. Yeah in just terms of being a shitty game Daxos is pretty terrible, either you put down a bear and trade and that plan is not coming back online till turn 5-6, or pop him with any removal. Even when he's online and doing it he's not that great. I am salty because I tried to make that deck work and it really doesn't, especially in multiplayer

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>>51253661
I'm proud of you anon.

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>>51264388

>anus mana

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>>51253661
>yfw you discover Promo Ravages of War has dropped in price by over $40

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Is this as good as it seems? Obviously, it hoses mono-colored decks with ease, but is it good otherwise?

>>51264388
> So if he tries converting anus mana into something else or vise/versa, call him out.
>into something else
No, you can spend mana as though it were mana of any color, so you can spend anus mana as though it were colored
Not the other way around though

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>playing mono b
>kaalia plays iona

>>51265442
RRR can be cumbersome in non-monoR. It feels a little win-more. MLD is typically used to lock the table out from interacting with your board. This card usually doesn't accomplish that. Give it a shot though and try it out. I could be wrong.

>>51264388
>anus mana
Brown Deck confirmed

>>51265478
All is Dust is a MonoColored Staple

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>>51265442

If mono-red, looks good. If not, I dunno.


Speaking about lands, I'm finally getting a consistent manabase art-wise. The dude I usually buy things from doesn't have Odyssey plains though, so for now C16.

Someday...

>>51265695
>C16 lands
I mean, they don't look particularly bad, but they don't come in foil, which is a huge downside.

>>51265478
what is instant speed sacrificing with a gravepact + dictate of erebos + butcher of malakir and the spells scour from existence, grip of desolation, and oblivion strike exsist

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>>51258241
Expanse came first. Wilds arrived later

>>51265478
use cards with devoid

Who would be the best general if wanted to make a deck where the highest CMC for creatures was 2?

Preferrably something with W for Serra Ascendant

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>>51265788

You two look like you're made for each other

Anything I should change before I bite the bullet and buy the rest of this deck? I feel like I have better options for instants that grant various effects.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/hymm-to-the-lunarch/

>>51265788
Karlov of the Ghost Council seems ideal, most of the creatures you want are Soul Sisters material, so it works out pretty naturally

>>51265899
Mono-white is an absolute snoozefest. Change your mind now, or forever regret it.

>>51262892
I prefer building new decks

>>51265931
I need one of each color combination to make my 32, so I'm kinda stuck, but New Odric seems rather interesting, at the very least.

>>51253661

>Playing breya, have 3 artifact lands out
>Get howl of the horde + Demolished for most of my board
>Laugh it off and continue playing

Land Desc is awesome and one of the ways you can deal with combo. if they want you to not blow their shit up they need to not play combo.

>>51265914
Soul Sisters?
Like Soul Warden?

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>>51265899

If you're determined to go mono-white, listen to this guy
>>51265559
I'd change strider harness for it, since it seems a little bit redundant with all the artifacts you have that give haste

I imagine it's for budget reasons, but basilisk collar is strictly better than gorgon's head

And get pic related

>>51265992
Yeah, it's a modern deck that runs a pile of 1CMC gain 1 life on creature ETB cards, and since Karlov doesn't care how much life you gain, just how often, it's pretty perfect here too
Also the 2CMC Auriok Champion

>>51264388
Daxos's ability doesn't care about the actual color or type of the mana produced. Even if you have only colorless mana available, Daxos's ability lets you pretend that it's another color. Colorless is not a color, so you cannot pretend that colored mana is colorless.

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>>51265899

Change Aegis Angel for this, since it looks like you only have it there for the indestructible

>>51265899
Get a Hall of the Bandit Lord. The Haste keyword doesn't end at the EoT.

>>51255822

A friend of mine used to run "Reaper King stax"
(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=159408&type=card)


Not really sure about the list but it has scarecrows, etb abuse combos and a standard stax package.

>>51266121

Didn't read post properly, thought you were asking about how to build it, ignore me.

>>51255417

This was for you:
>>51266121

You wanna go stax with ETB abuse combos.

>>51265851
>>51266040
Damn, I'm conflicted.
Red gets me Goblin guide and Vexing Devil, but Karlov seems like a more streamlined concept.

>>51265899
Stonehewer Giant + Worldslayer is fun.

Stormfront Riders/Dust Elemental/Cloudgoat Ranger/Captain of the Watch/Stonecloaker/Whitemane Lion/Kor Skfisher/Flickerwisp are some examples of abusable bounce/ETB dudes in monoW

>>51266169
I'm not sure if Goblin Guide is worth running in EDH. Like at all.

>>51266213
Maybe not.
R nets me Figure of Destinies, though

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>>51266169

If you want to run something to take advantage of 2-cost creatures Alesha seems good, but I wouldn't use it to run exactly those cards

Now, recurring this seems pretty fun

>>51265899
Needs more draw, tutors, ramp, and spells to respond to opponents,

say i wanted an artifact subtheme for a kaalia deck, how would one go about doing that?

>>51266300
This card is fucking fun to use. Really cripples decks that don't have ramp

>>51266300
that is really rude.
I like it.

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>>51266300
>handing someone else a win in a multiplayer game

>>51266334
Probably mana rocks, equips, and cards like winter orb. Not a lot of artifact creatures can be dropped through her.

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>>51266361
How is that handing out the win to somebody else?

>>51266384
>spend 2 mana making someone unable to play lands
>player 2 can't play lands
>player 3 gets a head start since you wasted your mana and player 2 is now beind

>>51265995
>I imagine it's for budget reasons, but basilisk collar is strictly better than gorgon's head
Got it in one.
>Sram
He seems like a slightly less useful Puresteel Paladin though?

>>51266071
Done, very solid, and lowers my average CMC.

>>51266195
I only have four/five useful ETB effects though? It's not really something the deck cares about.

>>51266322
And those would be? I'm in Mono White, what do you want from me, Ancestral Visions?

>>51266396
Moron. Use it on the jackass that's a threat. Gives you time to either kill him or, if politics are involved, somebody else will take advantage of that to hit that guy. Just because it's a 2 drop doesn't mean you must play him on turn 2.
On another note, this dude shines in MLD

>>51266419

It's a slightly less useful puresteel paladin but you don't have to substitute one for the other. It gives you a little more options on card draw, something that mono-w really lacks

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>>51266444

>>51266419
Use advanced gatherer. It's not that hard typing in "draw", "search library", etc. And sram will be useful. White needs all the draw it can get since he checks for both auras and equips. Where the hell is land tax, tithe, etc?

>>51266419
4 of the critters i listed have utility etbs besides their bouncing
karmic guide/Reveillark is also something to consider.

Burnished Hart/Solemn Simulacrum are solid ramp

MonoW has Endless Horizons as an alternative, just don't go full retard and put all your planes underneath it.

Land Tax + Scroll Rack will make any Simic Mage jealous of your card 'draw'

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>>51266496
I forgot to mention the reason for suggesting all those token producers: Mentor of the Meek.

>>51266455
I see what you are getting at. I'll probably take out Seize the Initiative for him, it's a weak effect anyway.

>>51266486
>>51266496
You do notice that the deck is under $100, right? If you want to send me a Land Tax/Scroll Rack, I'll happily take it though.

>>51266522
Mentor of the Meek isn't good enough to detract from Keyword Soup. Bygone Bishop at least has Flying.

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>>51266576
No cause you never stated in your first post that it's budget and the amount of money you'll be willing to spend. You said suggestions and that's what i did

>>51266576
no where did you specify a budget, just trying to assist

You are running weeinies.dek, MotM is worth it.

I highly recommend a Swords to plowshares too.

>>51266631
So what are your suggestions other than "Figure it out for yourself"? Because that's what >>51266486 just said. Other than that, the only suggestions I've gotten other than >>51265995 and >>51266071 have been White Goodstuff, which isn't particularly helpful.

If someone doesn't have obvious expensive cards, why would you think it's because they were unaware of them?

And, as I said, EBT doesn't do anything for the deck. If I gut it and make an entirely different deck, then that's great, but the deck is rather obviously cares more about Keywords (what with the commander) rather than ETB.

>>51266665
What does Mentor of the Meek do that Bygone Bishop doesn't do, but with flying?

And while Swords to Plowshares is worth it, what should I take out? Having precombat tricks is something the deck rather needs, so some advice on that front is kinda what I came to the thread for.

>>51266821
mentor of the meek doesn't waste your time with a clue and just gives you a card for less mana than you spend on the artifact. also it's a second body to draw more cards. whats not to like?

>>51266882
It costs 2 to get the card with Mentor. It costs 2 to get the card with Bishop, and you can draw at any time, not just when you cast a creature.
And Bishop has flying, which is important when all my creatures get flying after the first main phase as long as my commander is out.

So Flying + Card draw seems better than just Card draw.

>>51266821
Bygone Bishop:
Flying
automatic investigate on trigger
costs 2 to draw
triggers only on CAST

Mentor of the Meek:
triggers on ENTRY
1 to draw
no keywords

Once you run out of things to cast, the bishop drops out in relevance. Mentor of the Meek has a higher potential to net you cards in that you can keep drawing when you recur your creatures as well (Emeria Shepherd/Emeria Sky Ruin/Sun Titan). The Bishop is limited to your 17 < 3 CMC creature cards in deck. MotM has over 18 targets (Not to mention your token-producing Kemba) that can trigger for you continually as long as he sees them enter the battlefield.

>>51266821
Look here. You said help me, and i gave you general things to look out for, which you then bitched that white can't do, and then i told you a couple of cards PLUS a search engine that you can use to find budget cards. Fucking limosnero con garrote. Next time STATE that you're budget rather than have people find out cause you're the one that is looking for help. I'm not going to be guessing you're fucking current scenario

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I really want to build a GitGud frog EDH deck, but I'm worried about how the deck will perform without Crucible of Worlds and I'm on a budget. Can kermit hold his own in a mid-level playgroup? Is it fun[/spoilers]?

New Thread
>>51266706

>>51267041
well Green is the best for color for getting your lands back, sans Sun Titan

I've been mulling over in my head the use of Lotus Vale/Scorched Ruins in a GitGud deck. Golgari isn't my cup of tea though so I don't really know too much about the archetype.

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>>51266938
>costs 2
but that's wrong. lookie

>>51265695
>8.5 Tails
You're awesome, anon. Post a decklist? Ol' Eighty is underused and unappreciated.

>>51253661
People hate LD because they hate realizing their decks are shitty once someone starts poking holes in their plans.

>>51254263
I used to have a deck like this but I also had a plan. It was really simple. Play Dragons and then Wildfire variants. But people would kill my dragons and I'd Wildfire to stop people from winning, and they'd be all WTF WHY U DO THAT JUST SHITS AND GIGGLES?

How do I explain that I'd rather not lose immediately

Comments/ Ideas / (Yous) for my law and order deck?

https://deckstats.net/decks/60641/643141-you-have-to-go-back-027/en

Looking for ways I haven't thought of to make eyes roll with this one.

>>51270326

I'm looking right now, what's your wincon?
Also
You can't run messenger falcons, as they break the color identity rule of edh

I'll give my suggestions in a second

>>51270326
>>51270650

I love the theme and flavor of the deck, but you have a few weird cards in the mix, and almost no ramp. Why clockwork beast? Triskelion I understand because you flicker him to give him back his counters.

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>>51270326
>>51270650
>>51270697

Recommendations:

As commander( or in 99):
Gwafa hazid
Grand arbiter Augustin IV

in 99:
Hixus, prison warden
Grasp of fate
Consulate crackdown
Aligned hedron matrix
Portculis
Isolation zone

And for god sake, put in some mana ramp! Sol ring, thran dynamo, sisays ring, ur Golems eye, dreamstone hedron, mind stone, etc.

Also, if you want to win without beating face with all of those "when (cardname) does combat damage to an opponent, draw a card" you have a few different routes you can take.

A) stall
Azors Elocutors
Darksteel reactor
Mechanized production

B) lifegain wincons
(this would require some deck restructuring, but I feel as if this could make your deck incredibly stronger)

Felidar sovereign
Test of endurance
Celestial convergence
Aetherflux reservoir

>>51254563
None.
Chainer is the best reanimator, Drana 1 is the best control.

>>51253302
That art is disgusting. And Price-wise the FTV Nicol Bolas is worth $50 compared to legends being $5

>>51270650
Good catch on the messanger falcons, I should've noticed that.

If I've delayed my opponent enough, Isperia (or Archon of Triumvirate) is usually enough to win . If I run out of cards, I lose.

>>51270697
Clockwork Beast is in there for sentimental reasons. This deck was based off of a deck I made when I was kid. I really liked clockwork beast, clockwork avian, and triskelion and the way those cards interacted with Time Elemental. I would use the Time Elemental to reset the clockwork creatures to full strength without having to use their tap ability. It was always good to have artifact creatures back then because people used to play a lot of protection from certain colors.

>>51270895
>>51270697
>>51270650
Thanks for the suggestions. I actually have a Gwafa and a Hixus somewhere. That'll fit in quite nicely.

Mana ramp could replace some of my card draw.

I usually want to win with a big flyer. Maybe I'll find something out there that's let's me have the final word.

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>>51272850
>Maybe I'll find something out there that let's me have the final word.
Was that on purpose or...?

>>51261362
>>51262377
just cut Wasteland and Dark Depths and you're at a little over 100