Why does noone play as paladins anymore?

>>51250656
Because chaotic neutral is more forgiving for mistakes and lawful good is a bitch to work around if you aren't a good person naturally.

>>51250656
I play paladins basically every time I play DnD.

I just haven't played DnD in like 5 years.

Religious soldier is one of my preferred archetypes everywhere, but I haven't played a setting with spells or provable gods in ages.

>>51250656
The neutral alignments are extremely flexible by definition which is a strong draw especially for weaker roleplayers that may chafe against restrictions

I do, in Dark Souls

>>51250656
People play Best Class all the time, anon. Hell, I just finished taking one from level 1 to 20 over two and a half years.

>>51250967
But paladins don't have alignment restrictions anymore.

>>51250656
It's no fun allowed, the class. Both for you, and everyone else you play with.

I've had several paladins in my 5E games (including a racist murderous Chaotic Evil paladin who wrestled with their code of conduct and required atonement at least twice) so I have no idea what OP is talking about.

>>51250656
Because our society has grown so utterly corrupt that being good is seen as a chore and being bad is seen as a reward.

>>51250656
I'm playing as a Paladin right now though.

>>51250826
>Because chaotic neutral is more forgiving for mistakes and lawful good is a bitch to work around if you aren't a good person naturally.

>when you realize why everyone likes your LG characters and fondly remembers them after the campaign ends

>>51251012
Well shit I dunno maybe people just don't want any god in their swording. I quit playing DnD like 15 years ago, this isn't an issue I have to deal with anymore.

>>51251012
They pretty much still do, reading the core oaths, Devotion is pretty much LG incarnate, Ancients is a celebration of culture and art something that progresse faster in benevolent orderly societies, and Vengeance has a whole line about taking responsibility for your actions.
I'm not saying your can't play a 5e paladin that starts out non-LG but I do think that following an altruist dogma will cause you to ,just by virtue of your actions, become LG. I think the problem is that people doesn't understand that LG is literally anyone with a consistent moral code that has a positive impact and not just a self-righteous dick with an axiomatic stick shoved up their ass, which to be fair is a pretty common archetype That Guys use to play morality police.

isis makes religious warriors looknbad

>>51250656

One of my go to classes is a paladin. Or at least a lawful evil Blackguard.

I love playing paladins. Whenever I run out of character ideas and the setting allows it, I roll up a paladin. Also, I try to include paladins of some sort in every setting I make.

>>51250656
Post more paladin stories.

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>>51250656
I prefer clerics mechanically.

If it makes any difference, I usually just wind up being a paladin in lighter armor.

>>51250656

Because whenever you do, the rest of the party, or at least one of them, will do everything in his power to fuck with you, just to see you squirm as you barely hold yourself back from obliterating his stupid fucking evil warlock or whatever with righteous smiting so brutal and deserved that even fucking Satan himself would shudder. It happens in every game where there is a Paladin, like it were some kind of a law of nature, inherent and necessary to the cosmic order of things. Whenever there is a player that rolls a Paladin, in his group, another player will without exception become possessed by the Devil Himself and roll the edgiest, most blatantly evil motherfucker, just to see that Paladin player grit his teeth and have all the fun drain from the game for him as the game devolves into constant arguing and shit-talking and you try to justify to yourself why exactly you're playing with these fucking scumbags, until you give up an roll a Chaotic Neutral Barbarian just so you can stop giving a fuck in a group that hates you and your attempts to play Lawful Good.

Just. Fucking. Once. Just fucking once, I wish I could play a Paladin without that asshole. That fucking Assassin Rogue who murders peasants for lulz, that fucking Warlock who summons demons and hoards evil artefacts and wanks off to the Book of Vile Darkness, that fucking Anti-Paladin who just HAS to be in your group.

>>51257479
Clerics wear heavy armor too these days.

>>51257513

this really. Playing a paladin is hard because the rest of the group and the dm actively fuck with you and give you shit for it half the time. .

>>51257513
>>51260434
I know That Guy. I found better people to play with.
The thing is, That Guy's gonna be a cunt whether you play Paladin or not, so you might as well smoke him out now.

Because you're the only class who will become effectively dead weight if you step a toe out of your GMs unknown subjective moral standards.

>>51261637
>if you step a toe out of your GMs unknown subjective moral standards
t. bitter ex-paladin

>>51257608

I mean if 'these days' means back in 3.5 like 15 years ago then yes. In PF and 5e they are down to medium armor.

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In 3 of the 4 active games I am in there is a player who is a Paladin or the non D&D equivalent to one. One is played like a lawful stupid shit bag who thinks he is god and everyone should respect his authoritah and one is an easy going non confrontational "hey guys I think we should approach problem like this because its the right thing to do, what do you guys say?" kind of Paladin and I hold him dear to my heart for not being a fuckwad.

>>51250656
Because as soon as you pick that class, the GM is thinking "how can I trick him into falling?"

>>51261763
>You didn't read the thief his Miranda rights! Fall
>You didn't bury the dead from this battle! Fall
>Your party member stole something and so you're associating with a thief! Fall
>That creature you just met that was attacking people was chaotic good and you didn't assist it in slaying those bandits! Fall
>You chose to heal a dying party member over a dying commoner with your last lay on hands for the day?! Fall
>Though the man did kill that lady he was a Lawful good assassin so you shouldn't have dealt righteous excecution to him! Fall
It goes on and on.

>>51251016
Exactly, they ruin every party.

>>51262524
>You chose to heal a dying commoner over a dying party member with your last lay on hands for the day?! Fall

>>51262789
From my experience, playing paladins depends entirely on you, your fellow players, and the GM. Are you a bad enough dude to be the only one in the party with a moral code? Is the GM going to make you fall as soon as you run into a trolley problem?

>>51262524
>lawful good assassin
That sounds like an oxymoron. A good assassin is reasonable, but unless there are laws permitting assassination that makes little sense.

>>51264240
>laws permitting
That's not what lawful means, though.

>>51264271
I mean it means you care about the laws and customs and take that into account when making decisions. Laws generally aren't pro-assassination and it's rarely customary to permit that kind of thing. If your career is assassin you're probably not going to be lawful. Personal inner law gets too wishy washy if they're more lax that external law: it's okay to steal to the rich and give to the poor to not!robinhood's code, so he's lawful good and not chaotic good doesn't follow.

>>51264425

>The King's Royal Assassin
>The Divine Blade of a Lawful Good faith
>A member of the old, good Republic that was overthrown by the evil tyrant who still lives by the codes of the past to the best of his ability in a world gone wrong

Just a few ideas off the top of my head. It's definitely possible.

>>51251016

Why hello jackass. I'm sorry you can't handle someone objecting to your psychotic murderhobo character's behavior and asking for a little decency. or actual characterization beyond "HUR DUR KILL EM ALL AND TAKE THEIR STUFF!"

>>51250656
My group has two.

>>51264240
>I am a spy of the state, I kill enemies of the state by order of the Royal Spymaster and by extension the King. My actions may violate laws, but they are in service to a Good ruler, my victims are Evil people and creatures, and those who break the law.

Am I Lawful Good? I am, after all, an enforcer of the laws of a Good kingdom.

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Because for whatever reason, there is a disproportionate proportion of people who use RPGs to explore their 'Babbies first experience with grey morality' instead of reading a philosophy book

So that's why you get all the lawful good necromancers and their communist skeletons, paladins who have to align to weird mashups of utilitarianism and american protestant ethical codes, and so on

Personal example- Pokemon games. I have seen ONE pokemon campaign that played it like the games did- lighthearted adventures with the occasional nod to death and cruelty. Every other pokemon game I have ever seen has tried to introduce pokemon death in battle, team rocket using AK-47s, shock collers on rattattas and similar 'Mature' themes that are basically just pic related.

>>51257513
I had that warlock, anon.
IC, I took him aside and politely asked him to not do this, that, and the other, or we would have to unfortunately cross blades, and he was strong enough to not hold back against.
OoC, I told him to knock it off so the game doesn't become the paladin and warlock are fighting again, and then the outrageously minmaxed multiclassed paladin is currently murdering the warlock for being a twat game.
It may be poor form, but I told him straight there was nothing he had in his arsenal my paladin would not laugh at, and the DM WOULD greenlight smiting time if I had just cause.

>>51250656
>be the not cleric in my 3.5 game
>have a paladin allied to another good god different from mine
>implying the second our edgy warlock steps out of line im gonna zap the fuck outta him before our pally can even draw her spear

One of my players is going to be a LN paladin of the dead

>>51250656
I usually play Fighters or Wizards, but Paladins are one of my favorite classes. I play them anytime a party won't sperg out about traveling with a Knight who doesn't believe in robbing and murdering everything.

I think when done correctly they make fantastic additions to nearly any game. Problem is everyone thinks they're inherently dumbfucks. I just try to play them like late Arthurian legends, mostly just honorable dudes trying to do the right thing.

>>51261904
By default, yes, but half of them get heavy armor anyway.

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>>51250656
Playing a paladin is fun now.

>>51257513
It's the same playing a Space Paladin in the form of a Jedi.

So the other three people in the party can murder their way through hordes of enemies, but if I so much as think about giving someone the old lightsaber slash remedy I get told I'm slipping into the Dark Side.

Nigga please, these guys we're fighting steal children and sell them to Hutts and shit as sex slaves. I gave them a chance to repent and not continue doing it, but they thought it was funny and said the money was great.

How the fuck do Jedi get anything done in RPGs when you can't carry out justice on the worst scum of the galaxy, yet the Smuggler can shoot them in the head and next minute is a hero.

I see why the Jedi in the movies stopped giving a shit.

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>>51250656
I haven't gotten a chance yet. I'm going to next chance I get. Probably gonna be a dwarf as well since I've never given them a go.

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>>51261988
Got any good stories about either?

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>>51262005
Well it is a fairly good thing to be thinking about. Makes encounters more interesting when the paladin finds ways to be moral and get the job done.

Never seen a GM get overly viscous about tricking the paladin into falling but then again haven't seen many paladins either...

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>>51264240
Got a picture for just this occasion.

Way I see it lawful good assassin is easily justified when assassin's have a legitimate guild and one of their members spends a lot of time making sure a job is only going to harm evil folks.

Barring those two things though neutral good is still very possible if you strive for something close to Leon: The Professional.

>>51264840
Wait, don't tell me. Roll20, right?

>>51257608
I know, I just prefer playing them as support casters who SMITE AND CLEAVE when appropriate.

And only War clerics start with heavy armor proficiency.

>>51251789
Paladins of Vengeance can easily be any alignment so long as their sworn duty of retribution takes precedence over all their natural impulses.

>>51251012

They're still Lawful as a tertiary alignment. A Chaotic Neutral paladin is actually a Lawful Chaotic Neutral by the virtue that they cannot act against their chosen conduct, making them by defenition Lawful even though they're chaotic. Weird, huh?

>>51269287
That just means they're fighting their natural instincts to run wild, it does not mean their alignment is actually shifted.

>>51250656
Spoony covered this a while ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unNSx7ilS4k&list=PLtffrRBS4J2HE5I3cl75ncRlVlg-79nFP&index=47

Also anti-paladins seem fun
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_olkV4g75c&list=PLtffrRBS4J2HE5I3cl75ncRlVlg-79nFP&index=54

>>51264425
While Lawful characters will tend to respect the law, if the law is applied in an orderly and consistent manner, Lawfulness has more to do with your relationship with order. Are you a consistent person who makes plans and schedules, follows those plans and schedules, and acts consistently and non-disruptively? Would you prefer to change a process, system, or organization from the inside instead of demolishing it?

Then you are lawful.

>>51269469
If you're consistently and predictably irresponsible with no sense of time, does that make you Chaotic Neutral or Chaotic Evil?

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>>51269250
And I would agree if it were not for the fact that the oath of vengeance specifically includes a section on helping the people who are harmed by your enemies. This seems to imply at least a character who consistently takes responsibility for their actions, and a less then selfish if not wholly altruistic attitude towards the people they encounter.
While vengeance is the harshest oath and the only core oath that could really have a temporarily LE or permanently LN or NG member without them falling, it still requires the paladin to follow a written oath that instructs dedication, and selfless behaviour.

>>51269287
>they cannot act against their chosen conduct, making them by defenition Lawful
No.

>>51251010
Storytime?

>>51269020
>You thought you hung your coat on an ordinary coatrack, but it was actually an innocent litle orphan girl polymorphed into a coatrack and cursed to die if a paladin's coat was hung on her! YOU HELPED EVIL SO YOU FALL!!!

>>51250656
To fuck with you, specifically.

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>>51250656
I do, presently. A few sessions ago the bard and wizard of the party conspired to cause him to start a new fashion trend. Now we can't go anywhere without seeing at least one villager wearing a helmet enchanted with Dancing Lights.

>>51250656
I can do whatever the fuck I want as one of the neutral alignments and I don't have to justify anything to anyone.

>>51274971
But anon, restrictions breed creativity.

>>51275526
Not really.

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I don't think I'd fit well playing a Paladin, or at least LG-type characters. I tend to play evil characters because I like a good villain and it's generally fun tempting the mostly good party into doing devious shit.

I mean hell, in our current game I convinced the party to favour the local crime lord in taking the reigns of a city after the collapse of its government despite their hatred of them. In all fairness however, part of the credit goes to the bro-rogue who is always down for following one of my schemes.

>>51274971
Neutral is the tagalong alignment, you don't take sides. You don't get to join the evil wizards college or fight for the glory of the king.

Neutral alignments are the most beta.

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The GM doesn't like my choice of gods.

>>51276184
That's not how neutral alignment worked since like the early 90s.

>>51276184
>Neutral means you can't do anything.

It's all about motives and intent, my dude.

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>>51276213
>>51276223
If you join and fight for a good or evil Neutral origination, you're clearly not playing neural. Your alignment should change accordingly.

Alignments are simply teams, not instructions on how to roleplay your character.

>>51276332
Are they, though?

My character, a lawful evil wizard recently helped out a group of Paladins because the opportunity would reward him favour in the eyes of the local ruling body.

He played a team for his own, selfish benefit. I don't see how this would automatically make him good.

>>51276438
At my table I base alignment on what organizations you have the most renown with, rather than introspective moral compasses for each character that you decided on before you even played. Neutral characters are simply ones that haven't dedicated themselves to an organization with stance on the whole cosmic battle of good verses evil, like druid circles or thieves guilds.

If you're helping the lawful good paladins help team lawful evil, then sure, but you might end up being considered just neutral. But if you build enough renown with the paladins and it's hurting team evil, you might be considered good even if you're doing it for selfish reasons kinda like a business man making money off of a crisis by solving it.

>>51276800

So, you're a shit DM?

>>51276800
That seems a bit arbitrary, but I can see where you're getting at.

I've always found the alignment system be a more loosely-defined set of internal morals. But it all really boils down to how the GM decides they want to implement something like this..

I'm just glad my GM isn't very strict with alignments, since at the start of the campaign I was the only Evil character in a party of two good-aligned and one neutral-aligned. I had to pull some real mental gymnastics for the sake of party cohesion.

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>>51250656
Huh? Paladin girls are extremely popular on /tg/ from what I've seen.

>>51276909
Alignments were designed to simplify, generalize and to stop moral arguments at the table. So, they are quite arbitrary by their very nature.

>"Stev! You just burned a whole village down! You're a paladin fighting for good!"
>DM: "Don't worry, It was an evil village."
>"Oh okay, lets salt the earth then."

>I'm just glad my GM isn't very strict with alignments, since at the start of the campaign I was the only Evil character in a party of two good-aligned and one neutral-aligned. I had to pull some real mental gymnastics for the sake of party cohesion.

Sounds pointless and awful.

>>51276910
That's because autists get off to enslaving and corrupting them, anon.

>>51275974
Of course they do. It's doubly more impressive if you can come up with a memorable character while snapping out of a comfort zone and denying yourself all the advantages from having a more vague moral outline.

It's like making self-imposed challenges in video games. Possibly very satisfying.

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>>51276841
So, you're a shitty roleplayer that uses alignments as a personality and to justify your obnoxious behavior?

>>51277206

Hey, I'm a sadist, not an autist. There are many different kinds of ist.

>>51277206

I'd like to play as a succubus or "fallen woman" that's been reverse-corrupted into becoming a chaste paladin.

I don't know what you'd call that.

>>51269020
>Never seen a GM get overly viscous about tricking the paladin into falling


Not him, but it's not usually tricking, it's usually fiating by retarded bullshit into falling.

I once had a game where

>You weren't happy and approving of an NPC murdering explicitly good people in order to swell his army with angels? YOU FALL!

I played a true neutral rogue in a party with 2 paladins

Avoiding conflict is as easy as treating the paladin as a friend and making him understand that what you do does not concern him, and if you do have to take actions toward the evil side just try to do it without him noticing and/or with the least amount of bloodshed

>>51269212
Negative my man. Domains that grant Heavy Armor currently include:
>War, as mentioned. Martial Weapons as well.
>Life, for whatever reason.
>Nature, which makes even less sense.
>Tempest, on top of Martial Weapons
>Forge (UA)
>Grave (UA)
>Protection (UA)

In the current edition, there are more domains that grant Heavy Armor than those that don't (Knowledge, Light, Trickery, Death).

On the subject of Paladins, the last time I played one another player thought it was hilarious to "accidentally" catch me in his alchemist bombs. I wouldn't have cared as much if he did anything useful, but there were several combats he did more damage to me than the monsters.

He fell off a cliff, I didn't remind him he got wings last session. Oops.

>>51251071
>thinking evil has ever not been rewarded at any time in history

You poor, summer child.

>>51277391

You're a retard as well. Carry on, then.

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>>51268975

Nothing good really, the shit-bag Paladin does your usually 'that guy' stuff as a paladin like insisting he detects evil on every person he meets ever, and you know why should they object if they have nothing to hide. He also got into a out of game yelling match with the rogue because the rogue held onto a note that would advance the plot and didn't like the fact the paladin was all 'give it to me, you basically have no right to read it or decide everything'. I stepped in as a cleric, same god as the paladin and told him hes being a shitbird and god wouldn't want you acting that way and threatening violence against your own friends.

He also got into a fight with the CN Sorcereress when she wanted to defile some ancient tomb by stealing a bunch of gems that were inlaid within the walls. Came to an argument about how they were both not gonna be the first one to leave and a bunch of bullshit.

He also got into a argument with the resident psionic character whose powers were keeping the party within someones dream and if he left or died it would all come crashing down. Paladin insisted he wouldn't leave without the guy and the guy was like don't be fucking retarded I have to leave last or we get fucked. Paladin ended up being so stubborn that the psionic said "fine, fuck you" and left and fucked up the Paladin pretty bad.

I don't dislike the player, but he is very prone to easy frustration and just should not play a Paladin. Not the first and only game hes been that kind of shit, but certainly the worst. Glad that game has been on hiatus for a while.

The other game with the easy going Paladin is nice, I am the GM and hes the only player with experience and were both chilling back and trying to get the 3 new to rpg players more comfortable with playing and speaking up.

>>51268568
Also playing a Jedi in a Force and Destiny game. Sounds like your GM is just a dick. Jedi canonically kill people all the time. The only time I've been pulled to the dark side was an instance of violence beyond what was required to survive and complete the mission.

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>>51281389
At the expense of derailing the thread a bit how are the new people faring?

>>51250656
I'm currently playing a paladin who worships a goddess of laughter. His tabard turns into a jester hood at the top and his face plate is a grinning mask. He also has a smiley face on his shield. He's on a quest to reclaim the ancient text of the Divine Comedia for his Pope. His hammer is called Zillyhoo, which in his people's tongue translates to Last Laugh. He also has throwing hammers that he juggles. It's fantastic.

>>51250656
Why do you think nobody plays paladins?

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>>51250656
recently retired a 30th level paladin

I play them depending on how the DM treats alignments, if it is a Strict
>you must be lawful stupid
with like no flexibility then I don't do it, I do if that is the type of character I want, but rarely do i do that because I find those kinds of character to be boring to play and roleplay as, and they tend to drag the party down a bit.

>>51264698
why would a paladin be with that group of people in the first place?

>>51250656
Because paladins were originally a super rare and ultra-powerful class for players who managed to roll high enough ability scores. If you just want to play a holy warrior, play a cleric.

>>51251789
A large amount of DM's that I've played with would enforce the traditional THAT GUY mentality of lawful good.

which is one of the reasons i became a DM in the first place

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>>51282786

Pretty good actually. One of them is just sort of going with the flow and doesn't really have any initiative or aspirations for his character (just like the player as a person though) but is completely unoffensive. One took surprising amount of initiative and actually started acquiring books and reading world lore and stuff. The third is a nice middleground between the two, the more we play the more they involve themselves which is good. I find thats usually the biggest hurdle for new players is just getting comfortable to speak out and start dialog instead of just sort of keeping quiet and following the experienced people. We just reached the end of the first chapter of Kingmaker so I think i'm gonna run a couple of one-shots and see what they think of non D&D systems.

>>51284818

What do Paladin requirements 30 years ago have to do with the OPs assumptions that Paladin players are currently dwindling?

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>>51268568

>How the fuck do Jedi get anything done in RPGs when you can't carry out justice on the worst scum of the galaxy, yet the Smuggler can shoot them in the head and next minute is a hero.

I mean it should be pretty obvious that this is table variation and not every GM would make you crash and burn for doing that.

>>51284842
I have a DM who sometimes acts like that, he said that my CG alchemist was behaving LG and I have no idea why, maybe because he was polite but I thought that would have been off set by the bomb threats.

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>>51250656
Its no longer really special for one. And for two the class locks you into a particular character archetype by definition which restricts what you can do roleplaying wise. Lastly its earned a lot of scorn over the years due to shitty players and shitty DMs.

Just play a cleric instead. Less baggage. More flexibility. Same shit.

>>51251016
That's because people are stupid and play Paladin as the group mommy instead of the one person setting an example of virtue.

>>51262005
Resisting your GM's tricks and temptations is part of the fun, as long as they don't pull >>51262524 tier shit. (Did any of that really happen?)

>>51269111
I'm late to the response but yes

>>51264840
I have a group of LG necros in my champagne right now actually. Its in a Not-egypt setting so I can get away with some things I wouldn't normally be able to (Egyptians sure loved there afterlife). In my setting it is seen as a great honer to serve the living after death, and those who do so will be rewarded in the after life. These guys typically just to municipal work for the city while the church gets paid. Also criminals may be forced to serve as part of their sentence to repay there debts to society. Of course unlawful/unsanctioned undead are met with extreme prejudice by the churches paladins (LE, LN, LG depending on the specific order).

>>51250656
One of our people did, but now he's indulging in emotional angst and some misbegotten romantic subplot. It's grotesque.

>>51250826
Lawful Good is easy, brother. Do the Right thing.

>>51289565
Neutral good is doing the what you think is right, lawful good is doing what the law says is right. Often players can't roll play it well and just end up lawful stupid.

>>51264425
But Robin Hood supported the rightful king and sided with chivalry against tyranny. Classic LG vs LE conflict.

>>51289607
Nah, Neutral Good is some borderline Chaotic retard-shit. If you've got firm beliefs, that's Lawful, not Neutral.

Neutral Good has semi-convictions at best, but is still dangerously noncommittal.

>>51289666

What? Neutral Good can be the most committed characters in the group. Neutral Good means your character strives for goodness in all his endeavors. He's not above breaking or bending the rules if they're in the way of justice, but he doesn't want to cause trouble. It's the alignment of Jesus.

>>51289666
>>51290181
NG is the "When in Rome do as romans do" philosophy. You don't believe in the laws and exemplify them but you respect them and don't cause trouble.

>>51290327

Unless the laws are tyrannical or evil, in which case NG characters would often fight against the injustice.

I find it very difficult to roleplay well as a paladin. The temptation to act like a self righteous bigot is just too strong for most people, and they don't even notice when they fall into this trap. The unfortunate truth is that the paladins are probably the most heavily stereotyped class of all the archetypal RPG classes. And it's a huge chore for everyone involved to play alongside a stereotype.

For me, a good character must necessarily involve some creativity, some rarely seen traits or approaches. A philosophical thief who steals to relieve people of earthly possessions and help them discover enlightenment, or an atheist cleric who angrily preaches non-existence of divine powers, only for the gods to make him work miracles to troll him. For some reason, most people think that such creativity is not necessary when playing a paladin, or even outright believe that a deviation from the stereotype ruins the class. It's a shame, a real shame.

I must say that I came to dislike alignments, to me they're like a crutch that helps weak or novice roleplayers go through a game. Thankfully, in most cases they can be ignored, but not with paladins. The game basically forces you to take a crutch, when you really need none. It also doesn't help that roleplaying lawful good is HARD. It is so hard that a lot of people fail it and end up roleplaying a holier than thou asshole. It's probably the hardest alignment to get right if you discount the evil alignments (ugh...).

The class has good potential to be interesting, but I'm always cautious whenever one of my players picks a paladin.

>>51292638
LE evil is probably the easiest to play with. They don't cause trouble, they have a very clear goal, and if they are the wizarding type, concealed alignment is a thing so they can chill with paladins even.

>>51250656
It starts PvP and it does it fast. For it not either the paladin needs to be not the asshole type, or the party needs to most agree with the paladin. Most the time paladins players try to strong arm the fuck out of the rest of the table.

Having been DM as lot I would say that as a lot they are worst then CE players. Or at lest the ones I have had at my table.

>>51293666
N is the easiest, it allows people not to roleplay at all. LE could be like you described, but more often than not LE players will go around cosplaying nazis.

People tend to view them negatively because of all the classes in a game focused on teamplay, its the one that is always looking for an excuse to start pvp. In a game that encourages freedom of choice, its the class that require other players to build around him, sometimes even before the game even begins.

They always automatically assume that they are the leaders of the group, the face and the center of attention wile the rest are shunted to the backseat, literally not allowed to do anything because it either infringes on their code or draws the spotlight away from the paladin which is unacceptable.
This quest we're doing? Its my quest bitches just be thankful that I'm letting you come along at all.

Group decisions? The narrarive demands a main character, guess who it is?

Oh, and forget about being reasonable people, because we are picking a fight with everything that pings, deviates from my beliefs or just plain makes me look like a misunderstood hero. That metallic dragon that wants to talk? Fuck him, I have an oath against the wyrm and that means I get crazy bonuses to fighting them and have to oppose ALL dragons regardless of alignment or intent, nevermind that the party isnt equipped to deal with dragons at this level, that just means an extra dramatic moment for me as I shed manly tears as I dramatically stand over your charred corpse, nevermind that I roughed you up earlier and gave our potions to some npcs just to look good. Better get used to this shit because this is going to happen often.

Oh, and that reward for doing the rest of the quest that the dragon was not even related to? Let me politely decline when the npc hands over my reward, but you better give me a share of your rewards or I'll throw a tantrum OOC.

Class features? you people also have that? Too bad because my code forbids guile so the rogue better not use his skills, or its a smiting for him. Wizard eh? All magic is an abomination in my religion, too bad for you.

>>51293729
Pretty much these. Motherfuckers demand to be pandered to and start shit the second they dont get it their way or even start looking for excuses to start shit the second the game starts.

>>51250656
Of the two sets of 4 characters my group has had in the last two campaigns, three have been paladins.
One also played an LG Monk who was pretty much a Paladin in all but name.
So... they still do?

>They start PvP and are too self-centered
To be fair, I think those sound more like a "That Guy" problem rather than a "That Class" problem. I've seen more chaotic assholes start shit than paladins, although I guess the paladin code gives them a good excuse to act like that, more than just plain "It's what my character would do!" does.

>>51250656
Paladin-eldritch fighter-rogue assassin here!

>>51271591
When i get home from school, sure.

>>51295113
If they play like that, they're doing it wrong. Being a palafin means being good, and being good means treating others with dignity even if they piss you off.

>>51293666
Is that literally Satan telling me to play LE?
... you have a point.

>>51286520
Because the idea of the paladin rests on certain assumptions that were set up 30 years ago, and as the class has changed, the foundation has crumbled and therefore people have become disillusioned with it.

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>>51250656
Nowadays the various monsters see it has a 'sexy fireman' costume. Ever since a succubus became the king of hell, this shit has been happening none stop.

>>51250656
Because paladin's require strict adherence to a very strict moral code that doesn't necessarily always line up with the kind of character you want to play. Neutral good is the purest form of goodness anyway.

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>>51250656
I have written a one hundred twenty thousand word novel starring a Paladin, and will be putting it up on 1d4chan as soon as I can make a template for the table of contents for easy chapter navigation.

It has Succubae.

>>51250656
because your OP image is how it used to be

being a paladin now means being a stupid, vainglory, self righteous prick who just so happens to have some fucking deity on his side

literally the worst kind of religious fanatic

>>51299555
What do you mean, 'used to be?' The entire hobby of roleplaying has not eroded in five years.

>>51298617
>>51251010
Alright, storytime. This is the story of how we saved the world, and broke Pathfinder.

Or maybe it's the story of how Paizo broke Pathfinder by creating the Mythic rules. I dunno.

It began in the summer of 2014. We got two new players along with our group, and we jumped into our GM's Pathfinder campaign as level one adventurers. I was a paladin, and knight, of The Order of the White Rose, a group I made up a whole swath of lore for. The official name was Ordo Rosa Alba (ORA for short) and we were all joining the organization to fight the sinspawn.

No not the sinspawn from the Bestiary. See, at the time, the GM had been playing copious amounts of the Final Fantasy 10 HD rerelease, and based the Big Bad off of Sin. From what I've heard, he based a lot of it off of that game, but I've never played it, so whatever. We started off with an elven rogue (Variel), elven magus (Majora... yes he wore a mask), dwarf inquisitor (Petros), dwarf paladin (Jondar), and myself, Sir Edwin Cuthbert, human paladin. I used the Empyreal Knight archetype, which caused no end of grief from the others who insisted it was underpowered (it was) and from the GM who insisted on no mounts. But what is a knight with no horse? But that wouldn't come up until a few levels later. As it stood, we were tasked with assisting the war effort. After a brief sewer-rat slaying intro in which I was shoved into the party face/leader role, we set off on our first real mission.

>>51301789
We went to a large town called Somerset, as I recall, and we encountered an evacuation in progress as sinspawn set fire to the place. We made our way to a domed shrine of Iomedae (even though we weren't in Golarion) and fought two large sinspawn fighters. After defeating them, however, the statue of Iomedae came to life. The goddess herself told us that we were the new heroes chosen to fight and attempt to destroy Sin. For hundreds, perhaps even thousands of years, the world had lived in darkness and fear of this being, and every so often a group of heroes were chosen by the gods to destroy it. They had all failed. We were the last. If we failed where others had also fallen, the world wouldn't have anyone to save them. The pressure was on, but with this revelation came Iomedae's blessing, and we became Mythic tier one.

>>51301861
The ORA was elated. Well, most of them were. But not about Sir Edwin. The Order didn't like him. Why? Well, they saw him as the reason all this hadn't happened sooner.

When Edwin was a toddler, his parents had died during a small epidemic, and his older sister had taken care of him in their stead. She became a member of the ORA, and eventually became a knight, quickly becoming a sort of rising star in the organization. Many said she was the greatest roseknight in history, and it was said that she would probably be the one to lead a new group of heroes soon to destroy Sin. But those hopes were dashed the day Dame Victoria was called off to fight a sinspawn attack. Edwin, twelve at the time and serving as his older sister's squire, was arguing with her about one of his friends. The friend was a girl, a ruffian and possibly a thief, and Victoria forbid her younger brother from seeing her ever again, insisting she was a bad influence. Things got heated, and in his frustration, Edwin hastily fastened together Victoria's armor so he could run off and sulk. Later that day, Dame Victoria was called to save a nearby town from some particularly nasty sinspawn. Edwin, realizing his mistake, took off after her when he heard the news.

>>51301927
When Edwin arrived, the town was in ruins. Yet strewn across the ground were dozens of sinspawn, and in the middle, fighting off droves of them all alone, was Dame Victoria. She was a shining blur of grace and power, sinspawn falling to her blade by the second. But then, her breastplate fell off, due to Edwin's hasty fastening, and that was all it took for the sinspawn's leader to fire a crossbow bolt straight into her heart. As soon as she hit the ground, the other sinspawn scattered, their work done, and Edwin scurried over to his sister. Crying over Victoria even as she told him she was proud of him, she used her dying breaths to knight Edwin, invoking a tradition long out of practice by doing so. When Dame Victoria finally passed, the sinspawn leader came up to taunt Edwin before killing him. But Edwin took up his sister's blade and in a fit of anguish, somehow managed to kill the fiend. He was found that evening still crying over his sister's lifeless body. Ever since then, the ORA has blamed Sir Edwin for the death of their greatest champion. And so has he.

>>51302023
In any case, the party eventually made their way to a large human city that was walled off by a purple force field. It was around this time that Variel's player opted out of the campaign, leaving us short a rogue (We had him fall down a bottomless pit). Being Mythic, we were able to get past the barrier, using a secret entrance to the city to get in. After splitting the party (and nearly dying) Majora and Petros managed to use explosives to blow up the two crystals that powered the barrier, and we then went to fight the archers at the city gates to let in the ORA's army. With that out of the way, we headed into the main fortress to do battle with a sinspawn general. Petros cast true strike on me, forcing me to take advantage of the spell even though Edwin wanted to be cautious and wait, and he got grappled, twisted and crane kicked into a fucking pillar. Petros punched a guy so hard he became a red mist, and Majora almost died, in spite of having mirror images and running away every time he took even a small amount of damage. Jondar, thankfully, had a mythic ability to bring people back as long as he got to them in a round. We beat crouching sinspawn hidden asshole, and freed the city. Then we headed to the temple of the next god and got another Mythic level. It may have been tier three. This was two years ago, so my recollection of events may be skewed.

>>51302133
We also managed to fuck up an encounter with bears. Not knowing the knowledge rules properly, none of us were able to roll high enough to know that they were bears, somehow.

At this point, the ORA finally gave Sir Edwin the holy sword and mithral plate armor all knights of the order received. They had given him the white scarf which was the true mark of knighthood, but only out of respect for Dame Victoria's wishes. Now, he'd done enough to get the full package. Jondar was given a kickass red cape, Majora a magic knife... thing, Petros an awesome set of items, and we were sent off on more missions.

After a while, we were sent to a cave system where every other chest was a mimic. After that incident, the party would automatically draw their bows whenever they saw a treasure chest. Just to be sure. At the end of it all, we faced an antipaladin, and when everyone else had been knocked out, Edwin faced her alone, paladin vs antipaladin, Jedi vs Sith. In the end, he managed to cleave her helmet off, revealing the face of his sister! But she was dead, wasn't she? He'd have to wait for answers. After the battle was over and we leveled up, along with getting one piece of a MacGuffin that would help us defeat Sin. Edwin got a snow white unicorn as a mount, as well! Much eye-rolling around the table ensued.

After heading to another town on a new lead, during which Edwin and Silver the unicorn (Hi-yo, Silver!) were nearly digested by a sinspawn T-Rex we nearly got in trouble because Majora would't take off his mask (which I'm sure would have been stuck to his skin at this point), and were sent to destroy a cave where the sinspawn animals came from. Edwin managed to bribe a group of mutant murderdogs with some food, proving that Handle Animal is NOT a useless skill, and came face to face with our most evil enemy yet.

The Experimentor.

>>51299458

I really really hope your not fucking with me, because if this is true then it is a good day. Provide samples to prove your claim please.

>>51264240
Lawful is a misleading name. It would be better termed orderly or ordered than lawful.

>>51302328
This evil bastard had been using magic to actually create his own sinspawn, something not really possible normally. Those animals we'd fought? Kidnapped and tortured villagers he'd turned into monsters he could control. But he wasn't satisfied with them so he left them to starve as he continued his efforts. Before we could smite him for his crime, he teleported away. When we got back to the village... there was no village.

The entire town was gone. It turned out Sin itself had returned, and the village we'd left had been its first victim. We were shocked, but there was no time to mourn. We trekked to a small village where Edwin made an ass of himself by being a shining beacon of light to a peasant who'd never seen magic, scaring him shitless, and striking a deal with some wyverns who would protect the village in exchange for food while we met up with Victoria's old mentor, a dwarven knight called Orik. He'd been our questgiver, and now he was telling us we'd be taking on assistants. So NPCs! They'd be helping us out and we'd be teaching/protecting them. It was a fun change of pace, to be sure. But we found out through more revelations that the MacGuffin was necessary to call Sin and also disable its shield. But the real kicker was that we needed to gather up all the main races in a massive army, because when Sin's barrier is broken, it turns into a horde of sinspawn. The last groups of heroes had failed by being overwhelmed by the sheer number of them. Fortunately, we'd been helping out the Halflings and Humans up to this point, so things were going well. But then we encountered a ghost from Petros' past... the dreaded...

Nathan. (I'm not even kidding. I tried to stay in character when his player told me the name, but I burst out laughing, anyway.)

>>51302457
See, years ago, Petros the Dwarf had a wife and a child. And a house for them to all live in. It was all the man had wanted out of life, and he was at peace. But one day, Nathan, his best friend, without warning, burned down his home and murdered his wife and child in spite of Petros' efforts to save them. And now, here this fucker was again, and boy was this guy putting up a fight. We beat him, but not before he telefucked away like an asshole. We got our levels and mythic powers, a new piece of MacGuffin, and headed off to save the dwarves.

Almost everybody in this thread is REALLY OBVIOUSLY working off of different iterations and interpretations of alignment and you're all silly S.O.B.s for not addressing that.

>>51269287
>A Chaotic Neutral paladin is actually a Lawful Chaotic Neutral by the virtue that they cannot act against their chosen conduct, making them by defenition Lawful even though they're chaotic. Weird, huh?
"Wow, weird, you don't throw literal dog shit at your manager when you're upset at him. I guess that means you must be a very by-the-book, straight-and-narrow kinda guy, huh?"
Obviously this isn't how things work. There's just things you have to do and not do sometimes to continue living your life and achieving things you want to achieve. Deciding not to say "fuck every single thing" and then becoming a hermit does not mean you are auto-magically Lawful.
Similarly deciding to have a divine responsibility in the form of an Oath doesn't mean you have to enjoy it. You can EASILY be a non-LG alignment and be any Oath, it'll just chafe to some extent instead of being a very natural or organic extension of your character's beliefs.

Another example: a bounty hunter doesn't default to being Lawful just because they turn criminals in to the lawmen. Obviously, most bounty hunters aren't boyscouts. That's them agreeing to go by the law's stipulations for a reward.
Same difference for a Paladin.

>>51302517
The dwarves had a massive, underground city that had a tunnel being blocked off by a purple barrier. To make a long story short, we encountered the Experimentor again, rage ensued, and our flaky friend playing Majora was replaced by a DMPC wizard who tag teamed with Petros to flashbaing enemies before incinerating them with mythic fireball. I should point out now that the GM was starting to multiply the enemies' HP because our characters were beginning to deal so much damage that even against higher leveled mythic characters, we were nearly one-shotting them otherwise. We got to the tunnel where the dwarves' artifacts were, and Petros asked Sir Edwin what the plan was. Edwin, already having struggled with the responsibility of being the party leader, decided we should stick together for safety and to take advantage of ranged buffs... but then the doors opened and Petros saw a mage. And even though he'd asked Edwin what to do, he immediately ignored it, running off, getting cut off from us, and being disabled so he couldn't cast. And the boss was a Summoner.

I really wanted to strangle his player.

>>51302572
But we did manage to defeat them, and at this point, Silver got wings! So now, Edwin could fly. It also turned out that he was turning into an angel, but he wasn't sure why. Anyway, it was time to save the elves, and off we went to the World Tree to save it from corruption. When we got to the top, our other paladin, Jondar, froze. For our enemy was his betrothed. For reasons we couldn't figure out, she was trying to kill him, and helping Sin.

This, my friends, is why being a paladin is truly important. It's not that we smite anything even remotely evil. It's that we stay our hands in spite of that because we try to save everyone. Including those who have fallen.

All throughout our run, we've spared people. Sometimes, it came to bite us back in the ass, like with one of the Experimentor's assistants, but here it would prove critical for the sake of those we loved.

There's a common misconception that paladins behave a certain way in order to maintain their own sense of honor. That's bullshit. Honor is great, but even that is disposable if it means doing the right thing. When a paladin waits for his enemy to pick up his sword he's dropped, or refused to use poison, it's not because it would make the paladin look bad. It's because the paladin believes that everyone deserves a chance to defend themselves, no matter their misdeeds. When they refuse to lie to an enemy, it is because lying is hurtful to the one you lie too, and a paladin should never go out of the way to hurt others, even if they supposedly deserve it. Killing every magic user, thief, liar, and anyone who pings your Detect Evil isn't how you play a paladin. Hell, it's probably the quickest way to lose your powers. It's not enough to destroy evil. Adventurers do that all the time. Being a paladin is about upholding good. In all cases. At all times. For all people, even the evil ones. Otherwise, you're just a guy with a sword, and that's not good enough.

>>51302752
We managed to save the World Tree without killing Jondar's fiancee, and we then set out to find a castle town that had been taken over by black mist. It was there that we encountered medusas (which I insist are gorgons). What was frustrating about all this was that my character was one level away from receiving immunity to petrification due to his already underpowered archetype...

It's hard being a knight sometimes.

We made it to the main chamber, where Sir Edwin and the others became increasingly wary of the medusa queen who just stared at us no matter what we said. The GM was loving it, by the way. Eventually, pissing ourselves with fear, we made our way over to her and found out she was already dead. We found out why when we got to the dungeon. Two guys with robes and spikes coming out of their eye sockets tried to kill us and after defeating them, we saw a pool of silver liquid. The DMPC wizard, having another revelation, stepped into the pool, and attained a sort of apotheosis, disappearing after tearful goodbyes. We thought this was all good, and it sorta was, but then we heard a booming voice.

"I'M FREEEEEEEEE!"

>>51302349
Sure.

___________

My hair stuck to my face. I pushed it aside and looked around. To my surprise, I heard what sounded like voices which hadn’t been there before. I wondered if I should hide. Clearly, this place was holy. I could smell it in the air, taste it in the water. I morbidly wondered what would have happened if angels or petitioners found a naked Succubus in the water.

What emerged from the forest, though, wasn’t a petitioner or an angel. It didn’t come out from behind the trees, either. Spectral creatures, looking like nymphs, only both male and female, appeared from the stones, slowly resolving into fey shapes. Tall, well-muscled men, delicate females, and a few of the reverse for both. I looked around and saw that perhaps ten of them surrounded me. Their features seemed to shift and change as I focused on them and their clothing morphed between styles, but never grew wet in the water.

“Er… hello,” I managed. A few nodded in greeting, though the voices were quiet now.

“Is… this your pool?” I asked awkwardly. Most shook their heads. One spoke, very quietly.

“No, miss, we belong to the world.” It sounded very distant.

I looked around. “So… uh… what can I do for you?”

“Rest,” one murmured. “Find peace and comfort. This is a place of pleasure and happiness.”

“Your desire to be alone no longer brought us here,” a female specter whispered. “And we can leave again if you wish.”

I slowly sat down between two of them and sank down to my collarbone. “No… I’m tired of being alone.”

>>51302816
We'd fucked up. It turns out that by removing the pool through the wizard's apotheosis, we'd freed Ruin, Sin's creator and the primordial embodiment of chaos. He'd made sin to be a vessel for himself so that he could destroy all of creation, and now our godly wizard was the only thing stopping him from making his way to sin. But it was a losing battle, as the wizard was new to the whole god thing, so we had to act quickly.

After freeing the town from a cult and destroying a forgotten evil god, we gathered a final piece of the MacGuffin and recieved boons from our respective gods. Most impressive of all, Jondar changed deities and became the champion of Bahamut, becoming a badass golden, dual-wielding dragon knight. It was pretty awesome. We came to a town, had a drinking contest, and as Edwin lost, the town was awoken to a beloved mortal champion running around in feathers squawking like a chicken. The next town over, our assistants got to flex their muscles as we fought some strange sinspawn. And at last came face to face with our old nemesis, The Experimentor.

>>51302349

______________
A white-hot jolt of agony jolted his left arm. Toller cried out in pain as a glass tube impaled him. Immediately, he felt a horrible emptiness spread through his arm. “No! Please!”

His master’s infuriatingly calm voice continued from below. “You see, Toller, Master Bane teaches us much. He teaches us about pain, about suffering, about how all must be cast down and rebuilt. I agree with him.”

Toller screamed as the agony and numbness rushed through his left side. His right side convulsed as a hundred tiny needles suddenly impaled him. “No!”

“You agree with him, too, Bastienne.” Vorthane nodded knowingly. “I have seen it. I see you, Toller, and I see your faith, as childish as it is. All must be torn down in strife, and rebuilt in perfection. It will take a long time.” Toller screamed again as his right arm swelled. “It may even take more than one attempt, you know. We are but mortals, and can never quite match Master Bane’s high glory. Some come closer than others, of course.”

The fat cleric’s words reduced to incoherent wails as more glass tubes and needles impaled his legs and back, redistributing his blood. The suction device was a gnomish contraption Vorthane had paid a great deal to obtain. It was so effective. There was nothing like moving somebody’s vitae around to make them pliable. “You see, I do not sit at the left hand of Master Bane. Nor do you. I sit at his feet and learn as he teaches. Master Fzoul sits at his right hand, as he should, and High Cleric Steelwind sits at his left. I learn from all three, you know.” He looked to his left, where several dozen lesser Baneites were sitting with varying looks of disgust or glee on their faces. “You should learn, Bastienne, but you are slow to, and so if you cannot learn… why, then, you shall teach.”

Look I ghostlike through the mammals out.

If primal and wind-praised,

glow mighty the me.

A statement: slow turned the structural world;

serene darkness, unearthed true

high grass fire.

Dead madness beams with a ghastly dawn

upon my eyes, of which might be as her marriage-feast,

two calm comatose street-brain friends

cremated,

iron dyin'.

>>51302349

_______________

Luanea, priestess of Eilistraee, was kneeling in her unfinished temple, inside the curtained room. She had clasped her hands in prayer. The torchlight glinted off the simple metal circlet she had around her waist, and threw dancing yellow light on her bare skin.

Eilistraee was delighted with her, she could tell. She could practically hear the Dark Dancer’s songs in her mind. She had risked her life in the Night Below and emerged victorious. She had saved the lives of hundreds of children, she had renewed her bonds of trust with the Church of Ryaire (despite their concealing of a devil), and the money she had brought back had shaved two tendays off the construction time of the temple.

She beamed as she felt the very faintest sense of a pair of warm hands caressing her cheeks and a kiss on her forehead. “Thank you, my holy Lady,” she whispered.

Luanea let the moment drag on before rising and slowly putting her clothing back on. Almost the moment she was done, the flap budged. “Sister? Are you in there?” a very young voice asked.

“Yes, brother, do come in,” she said.

A drow boy, barely entering manhood, sidled in and bowed at once. “Sister, there are two people here to see you,” he said. “One is your friend Axio, the other is a strange man in dusty clothes.”

The priestess frowned. “I shall see them outside.”

>>51302349

Last freebie.
___________

“Master Asmodeus?” the devil at the front of the line asked nervously. “Are you alright, sir?”

Asmodeus blinked himself back to attention. “I am,” he said coldly. The fog had slipped slightly too far away from the bodies as he had been distracted by his hate. The shifting red clouds outside his window matched his temper, and they stilled when his focus returned. “Are we yet arrived at the time to begin the final touches?”

“I believe we have, sir,” the cowled devil said. “Shall we?”

“Yes.”

Zariel and Dispater watched from the shadows behind him. Neither would admit it, but both of those devils were a bit anxious. Both were ungodly, non-deifacted, and so could never even attempt alone what Asmodeus was doing here with their help – creating a wholly new form of life. Replacing the Succubae with even more powerful versions of themselves, with all the powers of seduction and soul-harvesting the old had possessed and none of the weaknesses, was a monumental task. For the three of them to attempt it, in the face of their rivalries and mutual hatreds, was immense in its own right.

To succeed as they were about to… that beggared belief. Yet here they were, just as Asmodeus had promised. Forty women, slowly assembling at the molecular level, being bound to their law and their desires for power, and ready to serve their new masters. Each would have thirteen, and one would serve as their new Queen, the Succubus Liege Lady, who would sit at the feet of the Throne of Ruby itself, and attend to Asmodeus’ court.

“Such a thing, this,” a devil in the corner audience whispered. He leaned forward, his hands itching in anticipation. “My lordship Asmodeus is as good as his word…”

Asmodeus luxuriated in a roll of his eyes. Of course he was as good as his word.

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>>51302349
A thumbnail of the finished cover.

>>51302906
Our fury was enough to topple mountains and when it was over, The Experimentor was a bloody smear on the ground, thanks in part to a newcomer to the game group and his OP as fuck ranger.

By this time, our party was doing over 1,000 damage. Not per round. Per PERSON per round. We were able to take down two mythic great wyrm dragons without even taking any damage. I seriously think the Mythic rules weren't playtested, because we're way too incompetent to be that good.

But the good news was that our quest was nearly over. But we received word that old Somerset was in danger. When we arrived, we came face to face with Dame Victoria, Nathan, and Jondar's fiancee. The entire town had been corrupted by Sin, the great temple of Iomedae having been turned into an obsidian ruin. We entered and the entire temple was walled off by fire and the battle began, with Victoria having help from a fallen angel.

Our GM deserves a lot of credit for this because I'm not sure I'll ever see a battle as epic as this one. Every single skill and tactic we had at our disposal was needed, for our party nearly died every round. But we pressed on in spite of the odds, and when it was over, we stood victorious.

It turned out that the reason our loved ones had turned was that they'd been impaled with the same spikes the followers of Ruin had, making them thralls of the evil deity. We managed to remove them (Victoria's being the bolt she'd been struck with years ago) but they were still in a sort of coma until our final enemy was defeated. And with that, we prepared for the final battle.

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>>51302349


Megaspoilers.

The first boss monster the Paladins have to kill. A mutated Margoyle that was trained to abduct children from their beds.

>>51303026
In a large valley, the armies of the world's races gathered together to make a final stand. Before Sin was to be called by the Spear of MacGuffin, Sir Edwin gave a speech to rally the people of the world before the event. I modeled it after the Saint Crispin's Day speech from Henry V.

>>51303075
>It is with gracious arms and sincerest heart that I welcome you all to the field this day. You who have braved air, land, sea, and toil to meet here on this somber occasion. Yet let not your hearts be dreadful. Let them not despair at our quest. Nay, be glad that you stand here upon this blessed mark on the world, for it is here that a gathering unlike any before or since meets in mighty unison.
>What is he that would not be here on this day? Races from across all realms, sheathing their prejudices and distrust and joining together as siblings in arms. For today, we all who stand and shed our blood are family.
>This day, the earth will quake, the seas will crash, and the very heavens shall tremble at our coming. And even a god will know fear when we stand together and with mighty voice say “No more.”
>This day, we put and end to the nightmare. This day we take back our home. For ourselves. For our children. For our children's children. That every breath taken hereafter be a breath free and joyous.

>>51303100
>There will be a day when Sin is naught but a dark fairy tale told at bedsides to children yet to be born. But the names of every man and woman to the last, they shall be written in unweatherable stone in the hearts of every soul from here to eternity and beyond!
>From the most decorated general, to the humblest squire, even to the cooks in the encampments, we shall be remembered, every one.
>Sages and bards the world over shall tell of our great deeds this day, our bravery and sacrifice, our boldness and steadfast heart. Verily, every night shall cups be lifted high, filled to the brim with happy memory of our triumph, and those who toast shall say, “To those who triumphed over Sin and Ruin.”
>For some this day may be our last, but last it shall not be for the tales of their glory. For glorious is the day of our ascension! Let us tarry not, yet go forth and show unto our enemy that virtue and bravery is not yet gone from this earth.
>Let arrows blanket the sky, let steel clash and gleam, and let magic thunder from the heavens! This day, we cry a mighty shout that shall echo in eternity!


>“To Victory!”

>>51303132
We summoned Sin, and it appeared before us in a flash of unholy light. After piercing its purple barrier, a sea of sinspawn rained down upon the armies of the world, as we were drawn into the creature and set into an arena inside a pocket dimension.
Inside, Ruin was waiting. He laughed at us for supposedly falling into his trap. But the way we saw it, he saved us the trouble of tracking him down.

We never set out to make broken characters. I mean, I was curious at the start with seeing how much damage I could do on a charge, but we were hardly a group of tryhards. Nevertheless, Ruin was outmatched. The GM even doubled his HP from 20,000 to 40,000, and even then Jondar and the ranger were doing up to 10,000 damage per round, with Edwin and Silver's charges dealing heavy blows as well. With Petros being able to heal pretty much indefinitely, Ruin was simply never going to win, and finally, with one final furious attack, he was destroyed. Our wizard returned to congratulate us before saying goodbye a final time as he went to repair the damage Ruin had done to the cosmos.

>>51303132
After the battle was over, there was much celebration. But the best part was finding out what had happened to our loved ones. Petros forgave his friend, Nathan, for crimes that were not his own. Jondar and his fiancee were wed. And Sir Edwin was reunited with his beloved older sister, and what's more, found out that the solar angel was his father, who had to return to Heaven years ago after Edwin and Victoria's mother had died.

When the adventure was over, a great statue of the party was erected in the valley where the battle had been won. It was bittersweet, as it meant our campaign had to end, but we were overjoyed, because after probably four or five tries, we finally finished a campaign, and played classes all the way from level one to twenty.

It feels good to play a paladin. Anyone who says otherwise is wrong.

>>51303035
I like what I see so far, anon. Are you looking for a publisher?

some buddies and i recently started playing DnD, we're all currently in the character creation process, and i want to play as a paladin, because frankly im a boring good guy in real life and would like to be able to take that and kill demons with it. How do i stay lawful neutral/Oath of Devotion without making the whole party stay in the no fun allowed zone?

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>>51303453
Being a paladin requires many things, In most cases, It requires a paladin to lead by example, Not to force it down the party's throat every minute. (Unless that's your playstyle, But OOCly i can confess that this is quite obnoxious)

A good trick is to learn to turn the other cheek for minor things but major things will require your intervention.

Pic related: My Paladin in my current game.

>>51277686
. . . redemption?

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>stack a few levels of fighter for bonus feats and such
>go cleric the rest of the way
>wear full plate
>consecrate, heal, turn undead, smite, cure diseases, turn undead
>party buffbot
>instant casts most spells without verbal or somatic or material components because of feats
>no arcane spell failure for full plate
>depending on the domains you take you can have all sorts of badass powers
Paladin, are you even trying?

>>51299458
if its the one I think it is have you finished it? and where can i read it.

>>51250656

I like to play my paladins as a cross between a well-meaning yet pompous buffoon and a deceptively canny veteran.

Seemingly naive, gullible, and unperceptive to the point that party members of a comparatively grey moral outlook feel they can easily dupe him in order to undertake dishonorable yet necessary actions. Perhaps a bit touched in the head, too, so that his outlook on what is and is not acceptable behavior is slightly askew.

At the same time, horribly competent and occasionally seems to be far more aware than he lets on, such that those same party members are wary of engaging in such behavior too frequently without being able to justify them on some level.

does anyone have a screencap of a paladin story where he had to get information from a bad guy who was saying " you won't torture me because you don't want to fall" and the paladin gives speech about how paladins actually look forward to falling and rolls intimidate.

>>51304475
No, but it will be quite soon.

>>51303035
Nope, this is just for fun. I wouldn't dreamof publishing Forgotten Realms characters or stories without Ed Greenwood's permission anyway.

>>51295551
Being backed up by the rules for their dick ass behavior as well as delusions that what they are doing is right and should be the focus of the game is why people hate it.

A CN rogue that stabs you in the back and snickers about it is a dick, but it takes a special kind of asshole to do the same shit and take the moral highground afterwards. You can spin it all you want, but the fact that you are playing a character that requires all 4 other players to change the way they play and envision their characters is a dick move.

Really, the problem with this class is that anyone can simply choose to play it. It would greatly improve things if people actually had to earn the paladin status rather than putting it on their character sheets.

And dont forget the plebs who saw a paladin greentext and think they can emulate it by pulling a "le father figure bastion of good" character, forcing 'heartwarming' moments the way a youtuber forces 'funny' reactions. Those fucks cause eyerolling around the table faster than the guy who thinks he's clever by pulling out le muscle wizard like it isnt a tired old meme.

>>51295551
and fucking neutrals who sell out their party and employers, complain when you call them out on it, then get pissy if they have to deal with having a really shitty reputation amongst npc's.

Reading this thread makes me so very glad they took alignments out of 5e.

Where do you get the idea that there are less paladins now, anyways? Have you considered that maybe your current players just don't like paladins?

>>51305219
I know what you are talking about but I don't have it.