MTG LEGACY GENERAL

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First for gigantic, sand-dragging brass balls.

>>51236461
What storm variant?

>>51237461
ANT. I have no mind for doomsday and I really don't like how TES plays. Also having red rituals next to dark rits triggered my autism something fierce.

>>51237550
Nice choice. Got any spicy tech?

>>51237550
I don't think I could play a storm deck without burning wish anymore.

>>51238697
I've been eyeballing Magus of the Will but I'm fairly convinced it's not good. Beyond that, I'm rather uncreative and tend to follow the herd when it comes to deck building. The spiciest I get is eschewing Xantid Swarm and favoring additional discard over Flusterstorm.

>>51240753
I've been moving in this direction too. Been trying spell pierce instead of flusterstorm lately but I'm not convinced. Reactive spells just don't work great in LED decks.

>>51240884
>Reactive spells just don't work great in LED decks
Definitely. Got hung up on an LED once and that's all it took.

>>51240423
I am the high tide guy from the last thread. One of the main reasons I love high tide is cunning wish. Instant tutor is just waaaay to nice.

If I could play a deck like Ad nauseam in modern, but in legacy I would. Instant speed combo is incredibly powerful.

>>51236394
First for infect is the best deck in mod- legacy!
I put a bayou, an abrupt Decay and a Leovold in my list last week. Was just as abysmal as I expected it to be.

What spice should I add this week? 4x Delver of Secrets? I didn't mind having 4x Spellstutter sprites in my deck when I played mono blue delver.

>>51236394
Well my deck IS pretty great and I'm sure none of you want me to explain why

>>51242681
because WoTC believes in not having fun, and while Tolarian academy, Necropotence and various other "enablers" are banned you are allowed to have your shit top and counterbalance. Good for you

>>51242253
Don't forget Tainted Strike for your delvers!

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we have the purest waifu of all

>>51243008
Why is necro banned again? What would it enable if it were unbanned? Would revoker spike?

>>51243192
I think the main idea behind banning cards like that is that they permit combo decks to exist, and apparently according to WoTC this is fun and uninteractive, while sitting there and having even the thoughts you make countered for 0 or 1 colorless mana is fine.

>>51243286
>>51243008
How can Necro or academy be any ways unbanned? While Miracles is pretty crazy, it's not THAT degenerate.

>>51243416
excluding affinity, Tolarian academy is actually not that busted. What would you do with it? Make the original Academy deck? You would either get your shit countered or you would be too slow. Base your entire deck around it? Half of the format can just wasteland>surgical extraction and you scoop.
Necro gives you cards at the end of the turn instead and you can't draw, and that is before you discard down to size. Lol

>Ancient tomb
>lotus petal
>lotus petal
>thought knot seer

this and variations of this are in the format

>>51243192
>>51243286
As much of a diehard combo player as I am, I think 4-Necro Storm would be far too broken.

>>51243546
I would make a TON of Thopters.

>>51243561
based on what? It wouldn't make storm faster.
More consistent maybe, but meh, you would still eat shit from miracles.

>>51243596
Sure make all the thopters you want. We should be allowed to have shit like that in a "powerful" format.

Titan post is the best deck cause you get to cast the biggest fatties. Then that fattie get you land and lets you cast bigger fatties, then you you swing with the fatties and get even more land and rotlfstomp through whatever board it is they have. You also get to put on shades and smoke a phat blut when you come up against miracles.

>>51243546
So the next question is though. Would affinity actually be relevant again if academy came back?

>>51243993
I have to admit that it is very likely that affinity would be absolutely disgusting.

>>51243623
I think t1 ritual->necro = turn 2 win a lot of the time. Consistency is a big deal. Plus it's a low risk, must counter spell. You don't have to crack LEDs to get value from it. Thinking about it a bit more, 4 necro might be overkill but i think it's an easy 2 of and up to 4 seems defensible.

>>51243286
Idk what to think about hitting miracles anymore. I really like the idea of using top to manipulate the mechanic. But counter top, a lot like cabal therpy, its actually really in a non established meta or on its own. If they do hit something, I'd like to see counter balance or top. I hate variable locks like that. I mean ya chalice locks people out, but a hard 'no you cant cast x' as opposed to top that auto beats 1 drops AND might maybe counter what ever it is your trying to do, ON TOP of what ever responses theyt might have in hand. Its just to much.....not playing magic imo.

>>51244091
>countertop in field
>fetches
>ponders, preordains, brainstorms
>not hitting what you want

sure there are some dips at 4 and 3 mana cost but its pretty solid against most things.

>>51244091
I think the right thing to ban, if anything, is terminus. Countertop decks existed for a long time before becoming dominant. The printing of terminus is what enabled it.

>>51244255
I actually don't mind terminus that much. If I'm actually able to play magic. I just hate how by the time you have actually fought through the lock and gotten something to stick, your shit gets wiped then you swarmed or killed with jace. Thought that's the thing like, could the deck work without the lock? In general I hate just straight killing decks.

>>51244341
I think if terminus was gone, aggro-ish decks would have better game vs miracles and push it's meta share down significantly. Then even if you ran up against it once in a while it would be far less prevalent.

Why is Flayer of the Hatebound good in dredge? Am I missing something? It hits them for four then you have to wait for your upkeep to get back ichorids. It just seems like there are better things to reanimate to me.

Also, does anyone have an up to date LED dredge list?

The only decks I have are ANT/DDFT which I've goldfished for a while

Should I play one of those in the GP and get smoked by being a noob stormfag, or bring a less complex shitbrew and lose to unfair decks

>>51244725
flayer is used when you have several dread returns so you get flayer, 4 them, flashback dread return on a grave troll, 5 them and then hit them for the rest with the big grave troll. I think if you don't like the returns that much or are only running 1-2 main flame-kin zealot is probably better.

>>51244803
What GP are you talking about? I thought the next legacy one was the vegas GP in june. You'll have plenty of time to practice storm until then. However, it is definitely on the downswing in terms of popularity, it might not be the best choice.

>>51244725
>>51244890
GGT will almost always kill them as you have so many creatures in your graveyard and it deals damage equal to them, basically. So you need two Dread Returns and enough creatures/Bridges. Happened to me often enough.

>>51244803
If you really want to learn Storm, you have to play it against real opponents. Goldfishing and saying "Yeah I'll play Duress to get the one counter will do it" won't cut it. On the other hand, stopping after turn 4 isn't good either, as a lot of decks pull the brakes to stop you without putting that much pressure on you.

>>51244890
>>51244952
Thanks. The second dread return never crossed my mind.

>>51244925
San Jose January 27-29

>>51245060
I figure as much, and have been trying to get games in on xmage

Alternatively I could piece together pauper Pox

>>51245437
I'm almost certainly biased but I think you should bring DDFT. Trial by fire.

>>51245764
It's a pretty fun deck, not gonna lie

Still don't understand why people hate miracles so much, either than hating to wait 45 minutes to lose. It does a lot for the format for balancing between archetypes and the whole "it's not fun to play against" argument is a completely dull argument that's based on preference. It's sure as hell not fun to get a chalice on 1 and then get beat in 3 turns by eldrazi, it's sure as hell not fun to lose on turn 1 game when then sideboard in your 1 or 2 cards that may help you only to die on turn 1 or 2 again. Fun is subjective and that's hard to argue. If they ban anything from miracles it pretty much dies as a tier 1 deck, save for EtA.

>>51247422
> wait 45 minutes to lose.
I mean...

>>51247422
Because chalice isnt a guessing game. And storm as well as show and tell are very all or nothing decks. The biggest thing with miracles imo is that you have to wait to not play magic. And if you are actually able to play magic, you just get board wiped. Even in other counterspell heay decks like delver or infect, they either have a response or they dont. Miracles always has one and its almost always 1 mana. You basically have to deal with 3 different levels of not playing magic. You can play 1 drops. You probably cant play any 2-3 drops. And some times you just cant play anything at all because of forces and other shit in the hand. So you have 1 guaranteed no and 2 maybe nos. Its almost like its actual win con is an after thought to making the other person not play the game. If I wasn't balls deep into titan post and my local metal had a heavy miracles presence (thank god it dosnt) I honestly would just stop playing. At least paper anyway.

>>51247789
You make it sound like miracles slays every single deck there is, and that's simply not true. Miracles has to use its filters and fetches and top to find 2 cards that don't end the game on their own, show and tell finds its 2 pieces and then usually wins the game. Most popular storm decks aren't "all or nothing" they have good consistency and a competent player will know when to go for the kill.

>>51244255
I think Terminus would give aggro decks a fighting chance, which would be nice. The card that really upsets me though is Council's Judgement and how it hits any nonland permanent, despite shroud or hexproof .

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I think miracles is as great deck and doesn't deserve any hate. Its always a joy for me to be paired against a miracles deck. A real gentlemanly match in my opinion.

t. stormfag

>>51247422
>Why I hate Chalice
It immediately invalidates half the cards people play Legacy for. Brainstorm, Ponder, Cabal Therapy, Preordain, Swords to Plowshares, Deathrite Shaman, Delver of Secrets, Gitaxian Probe... And that's just on 1. In what world would I want to play a format where my 4-12 cantrips that I specifically play the format for get shut off on turn 1?

I have always hated Chalice. When you can go turn 1 "stop half your deck", there's a problem. It's not punishing any kind of greedy manabase like Blood Moon. The card solely exists to piss people off and push a terrible, grindy archetype. If this card got banned from every format I wouldn't miss it at all.

>Why I hate Miracles
Now understand this, I don't HATE Miracles nor do I hate their players. I don't think they do anything degenerate in the format and I don't think there's a specific piece that can be banned to hinder, stall out, or otherwise hurt the impact of the deck.

Terminus doesn't make the deck broken. It's just a good, albeit situational, piece of removal.

Top doesn't make the deck broken. It's a good filter that really shines in a UW deck. Banning this card would be a mistake; then you could only play it in Vintage, where Mental Misstep exists, and why bother at that point?

Counterbalance is ONLY good when Top is on the field. Blind-flipping CB sucks dick. This card isn't broken either. If anything, it's a worse Chalice that I don't hate because it's harder to make it work than "lol Sol Land Chalice, concede now or later".

>love playing 4c Loam on Xmage
>In love with the deck
>can't afford it
FUCK YOU WIZARDS WHY DO YOU DO THIS

>>51249166
I dont understand how you can hate challice and not miracles. You know exactly what you can/cant do with a challice out. Miracles is a constant guessing game though a maze of bullshit.

>want to play a cool format
>standard isn't safe and rotates
>paper Modern is too expensive and rotates
>paper Legacy is too expensive and is going to slowly die in the next few years
>lol paper vintage
If I'm going to play MtGO, should I get into Legacy or Vintage?

>>51249882
Modern is too expensive and isn't safe*

>>51249643
I would rather play a guessing game than no game at all.

>>51247422
The only time I was ever super mad about miracles was back when they had DTT. I don't think I've any frustration since the deck since.

So back to this Anime:

>MC and his buddies plan to meet up
>MC's best friend doesn't turn up
>they go looking for him
>find him on his hands and knees, with a 15 year old leering over him
>"D-don't do it, MC, he... he beat me on the first turn! He's too strong!"
>MC ignore advice and fights villain
>"You wanna go down too, eh? Bring it on!"
>Gets t1 belched
>"Hah! Nothing in your sideboard can save you, MC, my deck is unbeatable!"
>Casts t1 belcher
TUNE IN NEXT WEEK TO SEE IF MC HAS FOW

>He does
>rekt
>g3 belcher only domes him for 18
>villain becomes friend with him and swaps to cheerios

If someone held a gun to your head and stole your playset of Abrupt Decays, what would you replace them with?

>>51251218
Bitch those are my abrupt decays I'll die for them

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>>51251458
nothin personnel...

>>51251218
Maybe 2 Pushes and 2 Grips? Gotta kill Counterbalance somehow

>>51251218
Maelstrom Pulse/Push split probably

>Elves
Because our stupid shit is the best stupid shit. Plus it let's me feel like I'm playing a tribal deck when I'm instead playing a combo deck.

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>>51240884

Thirding this. I'm interested to try Flusterstorm for specific abysmal matchups, but I'm not by any stretch sold on running it as more than a singleton/double.

Another problem with reactive cards is that they do nothing without targets. I lost a game to Burn once because I got stuck with a Chain of Vapor and some lands in my hand and he didn't have any Eidolons. Or any other nonland permanents. So I just sat there, desperately Brainstorming, with dick in hand, into more lands while he Bolted me to zero over about seven turns.

>>51251218

>Well, there was a time when I wouldn't have. I would've took what was mine and left the rest on the table. But I never made enough money to retire, I'm STUCK doing this shit, and I'm not young anymore. So now I don't leave nothin' on the table. Pick it up.

>*Nads-shotgun vengeance and harmonicas*

There is no substitute.

I guess if I had to lose Decay, I'd probably try something really off the wall like Energy Flux or Havoc Festival.

>>51251483
I was sad when I watched that episode, still pissed Joey didn't beat him up fucking bug fethist

>>51251218
Give him the decays then call my homies and beat the shit out of him in a parking lot.

>>51249882
>paper Legacy is too expensive and is going to slowly die in the next few years
This I don't really find to be true. The manabase is expensive, but the rest is not. The community also seems to be growing here in Vienna, we have 2 regular legacy tournaments per week here in 2 different game stores, and I often meet up with friends to just casually play legacy.

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>>51251218

>>51251126
We've established the main character plays Shardless right?

Watch me terrorize some enchantress players.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wh4EokLcoxE

>>51256114
Why not add music to it if you don't have/want to do voice-overs? Would be better than watching silent videos.

>>51256142
Well my primary goal was just to get a couple videos up. But I think future videos I'll probably try to record voice over for or maybe hurdy gurdy music . I'm also going to do a decktech/doomsday 101 type video so you can all hear my retard voice and bad jokes.

>>51256176
Any new content is good content, relatively speaking, in particular with regards to Legacy. If I wasn't deadass broke I'd build Vintage on MTGO and play some games, make some content. I'm really growing fond of Storm and Oath and I'm looking into Planeswalker control.

>>51256248
>any new content is good content
I feel like that's particularly relevant regarding DDFT, which I what motivated me to start making videos. The majority of existing videos fall into 2 categories: people losing with it, largely because they miss lines, and people playing against it on mtgo and trying to figure out what the fuck is happening while they get stomped by one of the handful of good players. Neither of these are very helpful.

>>51256449
I want to see matches against delver, BUG, miracles, reanimator, and lands.

>>51243546
Cradle is bad because it dies to wasteland>>51243546

>>51256513
Well I have one against miracles up, but it's silent. I've got most of those other matchups lined up, I'll try to get some up with voice over in the next few days. I'll see if I can find one against reanimator that is interesting. The matchup boils down to "did they nut draw you? If not, do you have distuption?" And usually they nut draw.

>>51243546
>What would you do with it?
Paradoxical storm.

Going tribal clerics

Everything is white weenie and kill spells.
I have mad life gains and stupid amounts of combat control with all of my healing and damage mitigation.
My last game ended with me at 758 life and nearly all of my opponents deck worth of creatures on the field under my control.

>>51256176

You could incorporate background music as well; helps to cover dead space while the opponent's tanking. Maybe change the genre depending on the matchup, e.g. death metal for Dredge and Reanimator, Beethoven for Miracles, baroque for D&T or Mav, and mariachi music for Eldrazi (because ¡MI CORAZÓÓÓÓÓN!).

Bump

How does this make people feel?
https://theweeklywars.wordpress.com/2017/01/16/the-legacy-banlist/

>>51256778

That's really cool. Mind posting a decklist or a few cards from it? I've always dug Cleric-tribal after it became a thing in Onslaught.

>>51258492
>ban gitaxian probe
[Record Scratch]

>>51258492
>The reason many decks can do well in Legacy is that many bad decks are being played. The problem here is that those decks are only ‘bad’. Many of them still do really powerful things; almost every deck in the format has access to absurdly strong individual cards. In Legacy, when a threat goes unanswered it usually wins the game in short order.

I don't know what the fuck he's banging on about "bad" decks. Like what does he consider a "bad" deck if it does a powerful thing that will win the game?

He also refers to "tier two" decks as them having a particular power level instead of tiers just being based on usage.

I agree with the sentiment that nothing should be banned in Legacy, though.

>>51258492
I disagree with all his choices. Even chalice. I think his reasoning behind probe is especially weak. I agree that top should remain and I think he has a good point about miracles but I disconnect when he starts talking about mentor.

>>51258810
Right? Motherfucker never even gives an example of a "bad" deck. Is

>>51258778
To me most of the arguments seemed to amount to "I liked legacy better a few years ago, we should roll it back to that". If that's how you feel, that's fine, just come right out and say it instead of saying gitaxian probe needs a ban so people have to be good at cabal therapy again, as if therapy is always preceeded by probe.

>>51249166
>Terminus
>just a good, albeit situational, piece of removal.
Give your deck some library manipulation (which Miracles has plenty) and it is arguably the best board wipe ever. It's much more than "just good".

>Counterbalance is ONLY good when Top is on the field
>a combo is only good when you have all pieces of the combo
No shit, Sherlock!

I don't hate Miracles, but don't pretend that there aren't good reasons for hating it .

>>51251218
what makes you think I play Abrupt Degay?

mono-red for life nigga

>>51249166
>I have always hated Chalice. When you can go turn 1 "stop half your deck", there's a problem

I like chalice but that's because I play big dumb mana decks like 12post, MUD, and Dragon Stompy.

>>51258492
>Ban mentor
Honestly if there's such a big problem with miracles that they want to ban it then terminus or counterbalance should go. Top is played in a ton of decks and if it goes it'll be more for time constraints than any one deck
>Git probe
This is as close to a free spell as it gets but it's pretty inoffensive. Arguing it does too much for certain decks is a dangerous game in legacy that leads to the wrong cards getting banned for the wrong reasons
>Chalice and deathrite
Stopped reading here. The cards are fine. For every deck they shut down there are two that shrug at them.

Also saying a deck is bad except the good parts of the deck is a really poor descriptor for bad decks

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>All the combofags complaining about miracles and chalice

>>51247422
The only thing i hate about miracles is when you get paired against other miracles. i just concede because the mirror always bore me.

Anyway i just prefer to play Canadian treshold than miracles. i just play miracles to bore aother people to death

>>51259068
I don't see how anyone can be phased by terminus in this format. I just don't understand. We've had board wipes since the beginning of the game. The only change is that creatures have increased in power such that ye olde bordewippe has been adapted to match. It's even nice enough to put it back in your library instead of exiling.

>>51259199
>We've had board wipes since the beginning of the game.
but never a 1 mana board wipe that gets around indestructibility.

>>51259259
2 mana and a tap :^)

>>51249166
>It immediately invalidates half the cards people play Legacy for
Just blow it up man. If you don't have some way to remove an artefact you're in trouble.

>>51258492
I don't agree with Probe or Mentor, but I do think that the format would be more interesting without Probe. It doesn't really seem bannable but the format would probably be better if it was never printed. Fixed DRS would be nice though.

>>51259545
>Fixed DRS would be nice though.
agreed. it seems like they gave him 2 toughness just to add insult to injury. he should have been 1/1.

>>51259789
They gave him 2 toughness so he didn't die to Gutshot.

ITT: Brew a fair non-blue equivalent to brainstorm

ex:
W - Draw three cards, then exile two cards in your hand from the game

>>51259853
>a mistake was made so an already broken card wouldn't die to another broken mistake (phyrexian mana)
wew

>>51259891
R - Exile the top three cards of your library. Until the end of your next turn, you may play one of those cards.

B - Discard two cards, then return three cards from your graveyard to your hand

>>51259853
B
Sorcery
Exile the top 20 cards of your library face down then draw seven cards.

>>51259980
this is far more broken that brainstorm

>>51260032
Nah it's fine.

>>51260044
it would be fine if discarding two was part of its cost. as it is it's ridiculous.

>>51259891
B
Instant
Draw three cards then discard two cards.

snow dual lands when

>>51260060
Just like brainstorm.

>>51260087
brainstorm doesn't break combo decks

>>51260064
Snow duals never! EVER!

>>51260064
Technically, adding snow would not make them functionally different by the reserved list's definition. Supertype is not one of the attributes listed in the policy.

>>51259891
I honestly cannot think of a green one.

>>51260064
Conspiracy 3

>>51260006
I need this

>>51260174
G - Return two lands you control to their owner's hand: Draw three cards

>>51260117
SCREW YOU BUDDY COMBO WILL RISE AGAIN HAIL YAWGMOTH

R - Draw three cards, then put two cards from your hand on top of your library chosen at random

>>51260290
R- exile the top 3 cards of your library, until eot you can play a card exiled this way by paying it's mana cost and puting a card in your hand on top of your library as an additional cost

>>51258492

>https://theweeklywars.wordpress.com/2017/01/16/the-legacy-banlist/

Definitely a worthwhile read. I don't agree with some of his choices (Probe especially), but for the most part, his reasoning is sound.

Mentor is coming dangerously close to pushing Miracles over the top. It's much bigger, faster, and dumber than Clique, and as Jonathan said, it's essentially giving Miracles a fast clock on top of its ability to choke out the board in both fast matchups and attrition battles.

Chalice is also something that I wouldn't mind seeing banned—I'm not advocating a ban, but I don't think it would be detrimental. If the race to the bottom of CMCs hadn't occurred, I don't think the card would be much of a problem for non-combo decks. But it's not just Storm that gets hosed by T1 Chalice; Chalice comes dangerously close to shutting down a lot of other decks simply because their only maindeck answer is Force of Will. And as much as this has been argued to death, there is no way in hell that losing to a 4–10-card combo on the first turn is more aggravating than getting locked by one card, then having to concede or wait around for the game to end. Regardless of what deck you're playing, this is more likely now than ever before.

In short, I think Jonathan's touching on something deeper in the metagame: there are now two decks that have enormous potential to soft-lock most other decks out of the game immediately, and both now have a clock fast enough to win reliably regardless of whether the opponent has countermeasures. That's not true of combo decks, aggro-control, or hatebears—the lion's share of the format, both good decks and bad.

It would've been good to see a longer explanation of what constitutes a bad deck and why; there are plenty of examples (Stoneblade, Maverick, MUD, Loam, RUG Delver), but I think Jonathan was worried about calling out the specific toes on which he aimed to tread, so I don't blame him for leaving his opinions unstated.

>>51261058
>there is no way in hell that losing to a 4–10-card combo on the first turn is more aggravating than getting locked by one card

Says the AnT player.

>>51260006
This is literally Pot of Avarice/Desires

>>51261099

Prove me wrong.

I guess neither of us can prove the other wrong because aggravation is subjective, but I was always of the impression that requiring a stellar hand to go off was a limiting factor for combo decks, and that blanking entire decks (not just one) with a single card was something that even Wizards didn't like (cf. the restriction of a number of lock pieces in Vintage, where combo is even crazier than it is here).

>>51255821
Yeah. Doesnt shardless run fow?

>>51261058
Marit Lage is coming dangerously close to pushing Lands over the top. It's much bigger, faster, and dumber than Punishing Fire x20, and as Jonathan said, it's essentially giving Lands a fast clock on top of its ability to choke out the board in both fast matchups and attrition battles.

>get bored, fuck around with Dream Halls on Xmage for a bit
>queue into some rando, turns out he's on miracles
>manage to show and tell a dream halls into play and go off, his response is "wtf"
>game 2 get counter locked with a handful of cantrips, nothing I could really do so scoop early
>game 3 get a hand full of cantrips, show and tell and a progenitus
>cantrip turn 1, find lands
>he goes island, pass
>draw a dream halls, debate whether or not i should show and tell it in and try to draw into conflux
>throw down the first show and tell, gets forced
>pass, he throws down a top and passes
>next turn, draw into another dream halls, throw down another Show and Tell, doesn't get forced, had a daze and dispel anyway
>he throws down a mentor
>gets met by my progenitus
>proceed to win in 2 turns
pretty funny story, figured I'd share it

>>51265852
I have no idea why he's surprised, Omnitell runs a few as a alternate win condition (You can hard cast it due to sol lands)and how you can combo off even with that.

Honestly Prog isn't what you should cast, instead the typical combo is:
>Dream halls (Hard cast is possible) or Omniscience
>Cunning wish/Griselbrand/Cantrips to get Enter the Infinite
>Cast ETI, Emrakul in Library
>Wish for release the ants/firemind's foresight for the ANTS
>Laugh as you ANTS them for twenty

Usually your washboard also has what you need for your sideboard, like Sugerical or Noxious revival along with others.

>>51266120
That's not as much fun as False Cure + Beacon of Immortality though

Are there any good chrome extensions for adding a hover-over to any card names in HTML

>>51265823
Lands will never get the banhammer, because it will never be an oppressive part of the meta due to the price of Tabernacle.

>>51265852
Huh, never seen Dream Halls before. Cool pick mate.

Guys, going to play a championship next week, what should I go with?
BR Reanimate
RUG Delver
D&T?

>>51267675
Rug delver is not really in a good place right now I feel. BR reanimator is sweet but it is the flavor of the month so don't be surprised if people are packing a lot of hate in the board. Death and taxes is probably the safest pick, but really you should pick what you have he most practice and are most comfortable with

>>51267768
Hmmm, problem is I dont have the full set of unmask...
If I find someone to lend them to me I may play it

>>51259891
I really like this, I'd play the fuck out of that. Maybe not in miracles but in other decks it seems sweet

What is your preferred delver deck? I was looking to try one out because I have never played one before but I was wondering which is the best/most fun. Are the four color midrange-style lists even good? Or should I stick to either grixis or BUG? Is true-name good enough to be running 2-3 main?

Turn one, game two against reanimator

You're on the play.

You don't have leyline because Weevil threw your copies off a cruise ship.

What does your deck do?

>>51271101
Hope they reainimate g-daddy and have no discard so I can False Cure them for the sweetest but least effective win

>>51271101
>>51271101
Lay down USea, Deathrite, Tormod's Crypt. Keep Surgical at the ready. Honestly, Delver is in a pretty good spot against Reanimator even without dedicated graveyard hate.

Alternatively, USea, Dark Ritual - do you have the Force?

Finally: Cavern, Lackey, Pray, Go.

>>51271101
>If I drew nuts
Probe, therapy naming grislebrand, surgical extraction

>If I didn't draw nuts
Island, pass, fluster storm their combo if they drew nuts, otherwise EoT brainstorm.

>>51271101
Duress them. Hope to have surgical backup. Alternatively, dark rit, doosmday, pass, and hope they can't race the emrakul pile

>>51271101
Hope I have Drs or GSZ in hand. Barring that cabal for reanimate

>>51273491
That's not right. You cabal the entomb, not the reanimation spell. Without entomb they have to waste so much more time by drawing the fatty and discarding it to max hand size.

>>51271101
Unmask, dark ritual, entomb, exhume griselbrand.
Draw 7-14, unmask/seize them once or twice more and try to get a chancellor on the field before I pass it.

>>51273541
I agree that you cabal entomb, but its because they have too much redundancy of reanimation spells. they have more ways to discard the fatty, bUT hitting entomb can still buy you a turn or 2

>>51273541
>>51273564
Our guy runs ub instead of br so I might be out of the larger meta. In the 4 digits of games we've had he keeps hands with reanimate even if he needs to dig for a fatty with careful study but he won't keep entomb without reanimate. Calling entomb sounds like the smarter call thinking about it though. I'll keep it in mind if we get a different reanimate player.

>>51271101
I play a Scrubland, deploy a Dark Ritual, then DRS, Duress, Duress.

Alternatively, I play a Mountain and pray he doesn't get T1 Griselbrand.

>>51271101
FoW ready along with [Spoiler]Wish for surgical extraction[\spoiler]

Playing Belcher but it sucks. Do I buy into ANT or is storm just a dead archetype. I feel that there are only a couple of good decks, and anyone not playing miracles/sneak/dnt/ant/delver/elves/stoneblade is just playing a bad deck,

>>51274742
I'm happy to inform you that Elves is a bad deck compared to the other ones you named.

>>51274742
ANT is suffering these days. The hate is strong and overlapping and nothing is likely to change. No real tech will be released in future sets as creatures are the sole focus of modern magic design, and so storm will rot.

>>51265823

It also requires two cards to produce in a timely fashion—neither of which cards contribute to the deck's gameplan except to produce Marit Lage.

I actually don't see a reason to ban Mentor, either; I was just pointing out that I think Jonathan's right that until recently the two most oppressive locks in Legacy required some time to put together a win, even if the lock came down on T3–4; now they don't need that time to set up.

>>51270936

I actually think that card would be better than Brainstorm in a lot of ways. You don't need fetches to clear the top of your deck with it.

>>51270946

Grix is probably the strongest, though 4c Delver decks are probably just as useful; it's a question of whether you think getting shut off of a color is worse than not being able to use Deathrite and Abrupt Decay.

>>51271101

>Weevil threw your copies off a cruise ship

Is there a story here? I love me some storytime.

In any case, with AnT, I'd probably Therapy naming Entomb. If Probe is in hand, things get easier. On Dredge, I'd probably do the same, or I'd just jam all my stuff and hope for the best with FKZ or Iona. With Belcher or Poops, I'd just jam it.

>>51274742

Storm ain't gonna die, but it's in a tough spot right now. When non-Storm cards start to take a bite out of Reanimator and Eldrazi, things will get better. Anon is right, though; Wizzerds really wants to forget that it exists as a deck.

Worth pointing out that Elves and Stoneblade are by no means top-flight decks.

>>51275383
>STORY
>W: oh shit are you the one who used exodia, the 5 card combo where only one of each copy exists in the world?
>Yugi: yep that's me
>W:can I see them?
>Yugi: here you go!
>Weevil throws the cards off of a cruise ship they are on


The next season more get printed and there's a roving gang of dickheads with maximum possible sets and cheese methods of getting it turns 1 or 2

>>51275544
>>51275383
In case it wasn't clear, weevil throwing cards off a cruise ship is a reference to the YuGiOh show.

>>51275544
>>51275602

Golden.

>>51275602
>weevil throws broken, unbanned cards off a Cruise ship
>Wizards subsequently bans Treasure Cruise
Can't these fucks do anything right?

>>51275544
They didn't print multiple sets though - the rare hunters' exodia pieces were counterfeits.

>>51273694
Basically the way to combat reanimator is to kill the cards that let them put fatties in the yard.

>>51275023
Creatures may be king, but in a recent article they said that the pendulum of threats vs. answers has swung too far to threats, and they feel obligated to change that.

ANT won't get a direct bump, but there may be some things that either help it or hurt the opposition.

>>51274765
Okay well then the others excluding elves. It might be like Eldrazi or Maverick that players think it's good but it's just okay.

>>51275023
Eldrazi going down bodes kind of well for ANT though right? Miracles possibly getting a ban could help as well?

>>51275383
Storm quite recently got a pretty decent card in Dark Petition though right?

>>51277125
i'm not convinced eldrazi is going down. It's still going to be out in force at large tournaments, even if its day2 conversion rate drops. I doubt Miracles will see a ban, and the matchup isn't really that bad for storm

>>51276463
They might print more echo dudes that act like spells, so if we get another 1 mana echo (or something similar) that cantrips or generates mana or something neat

>>51277125
Miracles has always been a good match for ANT in my experience. At least, I always enjoy it. I would rather play against miracles than anything with chalice, thalia, or deathrite.

>>51277125

It did. I think Wizards assumed that cmc5 was too much for it to be a hit in Storm-type decks, but the up-front investment often is feasible. Petition's pretty weak to countermagic, though, so I run a second Past in Flames instead. I might go back to double-Petition at some point, but I really don't like running that many high-cost cards with Ad Nauseam, and I think Ad Nauseam's almost always necessary to have in the deck. I only bring it out against Burn, Miracles, and superfast Delvers.

Regarding Eldrazi and Mav, I think you're right that Mav isn't as good as its pilots like to say it is. I don't think it's terrible, either; just not as fast or consistent as D&T. Eldrazi's good. I think it's beginning to show weaknesses it didn't appear to have early on, but it's still an excellent archetype simply because it's got such a quick and consistent clock and the best prison pieces in the format. It's got a very linear plan of attack, and it folds pretty hard to a number of things (Lands, Reanimator, Dredge, Painter, fast combo), but it's still a powerful deck. Going forward I think its biggest weakness is going to be maintaining its threat density in spite of its lack of hand manipulation and draw-power.

Posted a new DDFT video, me vs Bug delver, this time with my voice. Roast me faggots.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U48LbxgrI2I&t=6s

but seriously, give good advice pls. I'm aware of some issues, like the trackpad noises because I'm not using a real mouse. But any advice is helpful

>>51279656
You should drink more. And explain some lines a little better, especially at the start. But I understand it's pretty hard to play and talk at the same time.

Very impressive piloting.

>>51280086
Thanks. yeah I defintiely need to try to explain my thought process a bit better. I'll work on it. probably should just talk myself through all my MTGO games, even ones I'm not recording.

>>51279656
I gotta say, I did not expect our resident ddft guy to have that kind of voice.
For reason I always assume storm players have a low voice.

>>51280480

I've got a relatively deep voice. Causes a huge voice-body mismatch because I'm 5'11–6' but I weigh about eight pounds and look a bit like a gremlin/young Martin Van Buren.

>>51279656

DDFT Guy, hearing that voiceover, I'm about 95% sure I know you.

Was in Manch last weekend, but I had to drive down to Maryland for reasons. Was there Legacy on MLK Day? Next time I can make it over, I'll try to hit it up. Any weekend Tony's not having Leg Day...

>>51279656
You also could have won game 2 after brainstorming.
Put back the fetch and DD. Play both LEDs and top. Cast probe and crack LED while holding priority. Cast DD, then crack the second LED and use Top to break into your pile.
Also, that burp at the end was super classy.

I could have won it before brainstorming also. Just hardcast doomsday and use the probe to draw into a labmaniac pile. But I was being cautious, probably too cautious. So I didn't go for it after the brainstorm for the same reason I didn't go for it when i peeled the LED in that draw step.

>>51280656
dude you definitely know me. Also, Double Midnight moved its legacy days to Sundays in Concord at 1pm, so it overlaps with Black Moon's. But if you wanted to make the trek it would be cool. I'm trying to be there most sundays because it hasn't got enough traction yet to be self sustaining.

>>51279656
What are the beating sounds? Do you have like a hugefuck red button for mb1 or something?

>>51280995
no i'm using the internal mic and trackpad on my laptop, do the mic picks up the tracckpad noise real good. plus I fucking wail on my keys/mouse buttons.

>>51281071
Alright gotcha, not going to tell you what to do but I'd get some better equipment, I think this deck could use some more representation.

>>51280656
>>51280818
>TFW you find out you shitpost with someone you actually know outside a Myanmari underwater basket weaving forum.

That's got to be awkward.

>>51281587
Eh it's not like we ran into each other on /h/ or something.

>>51280818

That's really good to know. I often find that Legacy gets displaced by random Modern stuff or prereleases, and occasionally by other stuff. I'll try to make it down there the next time there's nothing in Leb.

So after 3 weeks of 12 post getting eaten up by 4cloam, D&T,delver and r/b reanimator. I am so done......I swear im playing burn next week......for real this time......

>>51283692

Do it. Physically light all their Rishadan Ports and duals on fire.

Or you could always run crazy shenanigans in the sideboard like Sphere of Resistance or Drop of Honey. That seems like a better way to not get kicked out of the LGS.

Would now be a good time to pick up Stoneforge Mystics, or should I wait for whatever reason?

Playset Tsabo's Web :^)

>>51259365
What did he mean by this?

>>51285636
tap 1, spin top, put shit on top. tap top, draw some shit, tap 1 cast the shit?

>>51285678
I thought he more was talking about casting a Counterspell.

>>51284685
Buy 20, wait three months until she's unbanned in modern. Boom profit.

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DDFT guys mb1.

>>51279656
>cracks knuckles
You absolute badass. That was a pretty sick win in the first game.

>>51285678
Definitely what I was getting at.

Guy at locals was talking about how he wanted the legacy bubble to pop, so card got dirt cheap and more people could play. How would that actually happen? Like if people just stop buying legacy cards for a long time?

>>51279656
if modo ports ever drop under a benny i'm buying in

>>51236394
Pox is the best deck because it 2-0's anything that doesn't win turn 0 or play Chalice at 1 turn 1?
Actually scratch that, I've been beating Eldrazi and Stompies too since I added white for Vindicate and SB Disenchant & RIP.

>>51279656
Hot diggity that double doomsday pile got me rock hard

I always get confused when I try them.

>>51286056
Thanks. The win game 1 looks sick because I beat the decay and daze that i had no idea they'd draw, but looking back I think the pass the turn pile was riskier than necessary.

>>51288836
Double doomsday piles are rarely truly necessary. I think I've needed one to win exactly once in my time playing DDFT. To build them, basically you need 3 extra black mana, plus the uu1 needed to cast ideas unbound and sdt. I'm probably going to do a video on piles but i won't have time until next week.

>>51286372
It would likely be a slow deflate than a pop.

>>51286934
Then why have I consistently beat pox with DnT?

>>51286372
With chinaman proxies.
they made legacy reasonably priced, and the fakes are good no matter what butthurt elitist collectors think about "muh investments". your greed brought this upon yourselves

>>51286372
Basically the price would have to reach a point where the market halts completely and has to come back down. If there is a panic it pops and freefalls. More likely it'll deflate since it's just a hobby and investors typically arnt only in reserve list staples. We actually saw this with the lion's eye diamond buyout where it peaked at 250 then slid back down to 100 when nobody was buying it for months after.

The only thing I can imagine causing a pop is if there is a massive panic caused by fakes destroying any confidence in sellers. Something like an SCG open having the weekends deck checks with 25%+ fakes across the board or a seller like channelfireball having a ton of fakes they didn't identify in their inventory

I feel that fakes only show how dead Legacy and Vintage are. Sure, some Magic players are lazy shits that can't find the fakes, but I really consider the number of players who can get the fakes and just have no motivation to get them because nobody is interested.

Even if you can get every Legacy staple for $250 they're still not going to buy it because nobody is willing to also buy them. You basically have to clear the fakes with your store to see if it's okay even to play them in the open because it impacts their earnings.

What's one deck yu could never see yourself playing and deriving even a modicum of enjoyment from?
Hard mode:besides eldrazi

>>51291909
Probably Dredge or Show and Tell decks, they're just so linear and often hosed g2 and 3

>>51291909
DDFT. My only interest in storm is solitaire while I wait for a round to end, I don't have the head to manuever through countermagic and DDFT complicates it furthur

>>51291898
>You basically have to clear the fakes with your store to see if it's okay even to play them
......are you actually retarded?

>>51291909
Definitely Sneak 'n' Show. It's just such a dumb, linear deck. In my mind, only Spikes could enjoy playing it more than once in a blue moon.

>>51291977
What, you think people are going to suddenly believe you bought Miracles in its entirety overnight? People aren't that fucking retarded. And not only that, that multiple people in the store suddenly decided to drop several thousand dollars at the same time NOT at the store and suddenly have all these cards?

One, you look like an asshole for not shopping at the store (which may or may not have the cards). And two, it's obvious you're carting around the fakes, you might as well be honest about it to your store.

>>51291962
How is Dredge linear? I guess if you're all in on a combo it is, but overall Dredge is no more linear than something like Death&Taxes

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>>51292027
>What, you think people are going to suddenly believe you bought Miracles in its entirety overnight
Took me less than 3 days to have miracles built from scratch including getting what I could at the lgs. Maybe you just need to manage your money better.

>>51292030
Linear probably wasn't the right word, it just puts me off that the decks entire line of attack is graveyard based and prone to being hosed. It does change based on which variant you're playing though.

>>51292027
Except my noone buys/trades legacy stuff into/from my store cause the store doesn't want it. They go more for volume cause they also run pokemon and ygo. They might take some legacy stuff if it has modern cross over. The only way they take high end legacy stuff is if they find it in collections.

>>51292163
If your LGS doesn't have something or overprices stuff then who cares? Are they going to ban you for buying your cards somewhere else?

It's legacy night tonight. Should I stick with ANT, audible to 4c delver, or print up something that's SUPER off the wall? Store allows proxies so money is no object (unless I run out of ink for my printer)

>>51292520
Battle of wits. Run that printer out of ink

>>51292520
Shit, proxies? I would shitbrew every week. Mono U Painter, 5C Delver, Lands/Pox/Loam/Depths hybrids, etc

>>51292548
Play this list
http://www.starcitygames.com/article/28385_Battle-Of-Wits-Lands-In-Legacy.html

>>51292558
>This week? 3 color metalworker wildfire omniscience with a GSZ package

>>51292589
>someone got paid to shitbrew this

My inner Johnny loves it.

>>51292520
Here's a shitbrew of my own creation
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/doomsday-miracles/

I have no idea if it's even remotely good. I highly recommend it.

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>>51292520
here's my shitbrew for your consideration.

>>51293575
Is shit
what else do you want us to considere?

>>51293599
I meant consider playing it

>>51291909
Anything stompy, elves and 12 post.

Sneak and show is fun. Fight me fgts.

>>51293575
Why do you play the Watery Grave?

>>51294053
to grow death's shadow. why do I not play an overgrown tomb? not sure. I slapped this together for laughs a while ago. I did beat some people on xmage with it, though.

>>51294142
I don't think the idea is entirely terrible desu. I like the reanimates. Do you have another threat in the sideboard?

I might try this in mtgo, have basically all the cards.

>>51294216
no but that's a good idea. the idea was to make a turn 1 street wraith, which is randomly good against abrupt decay decks. it's certainly not great but it's ok and funny.

Is bayou a better sideboard land than trop? Looking to pick up my first actual dual if it's a good deal.

>>51293575

Needs Infernal Contract and Dark Ritual.

>>51294941
If you want to play Storm, USea is definitely the best choice. Of course, it's a lot more expensive, but Ad Nauseam makes you very glad to have it instead of Watery Grave. The first one makes a huge difference as you'll mostly fetch for it anyway.

>>51295294
I'm playing 2 Usea and 1 volc main, I'm asking about the land that goes into the sideboard so you have green for abrupt decay and carpet of flowers. For the longest time it'd been trop but more and more I see people running bayou instead.

>>51295492
It depends on what deck you are playing.
Bayou is a lot better in TES as your fetches are 4 Delta, 4 Mire. Trop can only be fetched by Delta, but Bayou by both. I'm not sure about ANT, but DDFT can play Trop as an additional green source in the board if they already don't run 1 Trop and 1 Bayou main, as the blue mana is more important.

>>51295894
Re: ddft, I play trop and bayou main usually. A lot of people play the trop main and bayou side, with an extra basic main. I prefer to have the extra sideboard slot over the 3rd basic.

>>51296026
Should I be playing 15 lands in the maindeck then? I'd been on 14 for a while.(8 fetch, 2 usea, 1 volc, 2 island, 1 swamp)

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>>51294303
You can run jank like Death Wish.

>>51296199
If I were to play ANT, i would play 15 lands. But because I've played 17 for so long it's unthinkable to me to play fewer than 15

How do you guys do it?
How do you continue to play a format where Miracles is the top deck??

I recently sold out of legacy because everyone plays this deck. Most are shit at it too. Regardless, the deck is not fun or interesting to play against and I cannot stand the length of the matches. Maybe if something was going on, but that's not what miracle players want.
I loved this format but that one deck just sucks all life out of it.

>>51292027
Stores that subsist on singles are doomed to close.
The LGS that runs a proxy Vintage leage charges $10 tournament entries for credit prizes. They don't own a single Mox and we still go give them our cash because they give us a comfortable place to play paper Vintage at, even if the best thing we can get for a prize is EMA boosters or accessories.

>>51298714
Because T1 Thoughtseize into Surgical is git good.
You're aware you're not required to run decks exactly as they appear in mtgtop8 and can brew against your metagame, right?

>>51298932
No shit. I never said I lose to it all the time and it's too hard to beat.
The deck is a blight on legacy and is grossly over represented

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>>51298714
Where are you going to go? Modern is a shitshow, bannings are done via blindfold and a dartboard, not to mention a shitty cardpool.

Standard is a midrange vs midrange all day every day money sink

Edh being fun is 100% dependant on your playgroup

Uhhh..Frontier? Vintage?

Legacy isn't perfect, but it is leagues ahead of every other contructed format. Stop bitching and sleeve up something that has a good Miracles matchup.

>>51299010
I already said I sold out.
I'm switching to modern. Fuck you legacy circlejerkers. Modern is great right now and maybe if you played it you'd know it's not dart board bans

>>51299010
You guys are so oblivious to other formats it's funny.

>>51299076
>>51299076
I've played Modern since its inception, and have had by far the most luck competitively with it. Last I did the math I was up over $3k, playing Modern funded my Magic hobby for years. I have more Modern games under my belt than Legacy games. But it is not a fun or well managed format.

Standard has some combo decks and shit for the first time in years, but thats just temporary. Occasionally a hard control or combo shitbrew will be viable, but that doesnt change the fact that 80% of Standard matches are hardcasted 5/5's smashing into each other.

I would love to see someone try to argue against it being a massive money sink as well.

Vintage is great, but less diverse, and only a handful of regions in the US even have a scene at all, proxy or no.

Im not even going to address Frontier.

So do either of you faggots (or faggoy) have any actual meat behind your arguments, or is one deck being a WHOLE 14% of the metagame really enough to make you sperg out and cry?

>>51299266
>Vintage is great,
Vintage is ruined by the allowance of singletons

>>51292102
Not all of us are world renowned dentists, anon.

>>51299377
I cant take it seriously for a competitive format, but its fun as fuck, anyone who tries to deny that has never played it.

>>51299010
>Standard is midrange
>implying I'm not pulling out my storm counter every FNM

>>51299010
I'm not dropping out of Legacy myself but since we only have Legacy night once a month I've tried all other formats and it turns out now that it's played at 20hp, Duel Commander is the closest to Legacy 2.0 you can get and it actually fires twice a week.

So legacy got cancelled tonight because some idiot crashed into the power transformer. We had enough flashlight apps to run, but given the money on the table they decided it was best they just refund everyone's entries and not risk theft.

>>51299495
But anon, youve never been able to use Power in Legacy

>>51299517
Why do you think he crashed?

>>51299266
>>51299456
They just admitted their mistakes with Standard, and Combo was literally the main focus of the last set.

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>>51300140
One mans mistake is another mans wild ride

>>51298714
because there is almost no mirical presence in my local meta. And I have 12post ready to go if it ever dose. I dont care about standard and modern is shit. And it those regards its kinda scary how similar wotc and konami are becoming.

>>51299010
Is that a fetish pic or some sort of sjw public service announcement thing...........I cant tell.

>>51291909
Miracles

I am interested in playing oops all spells, but how do I play around force of will. The card seems to ruin this deck.

>>51300899
just cabal and name force.

>>51300899
How to play around Force with OAS

>Step 1: Fuck it go for it. If they have Force go to step 2

>Step 2: Hope you dont die before you draw enough cards to combo out.

>Step 3: Fuck it go for it

>>51291909
Sneak and show and Lands

Those are the only 2 decks (besides eldrazi) that I have zero interest in playing, I just can't see the fun in them

>tfw picked up two Taigas for 70$ each (Canadian)

Both are NM, can't believe my LGS was selling them for that cheap. Legacy Lands here I come!

>>51302172
Nice work. I was able to snag the Bayou for 100 and it was very lightly played. And even if I never get the chance to play it in legacy, Karador will love it.

Also a puzzle for you all, from last night. Your opponent wins the roll and plays flooded strand and passes. You play duress and see the following hand:
>scrubland
>swords to plowshares
>polluted delta
>3 brainstorm

What is your opponent playing, and what do you blind name with cabal therapy after they brainstorm in reponse? (Assume you know they hid both their other brainstorms with the first)

>>51302255
My first thought is probably Deathblade, probably SFM. Since we're on Storm the other option is to blind name Force and try to race whatever they drew.

>>51302255
Looks like esper stoneware to me. I''d probably blind name force, depending on the contents of my hand.

>>51295492
>>51296199

I run 14 lands incl. Trop with only two basics in the main. I use a Bayou in the sideboard for Wasteland matchups and when I want to bring in Abrupt Decay. I find that I get choked less than one time in four, but I flood out on 15 lands about 2/3 of the time. I also run Chrome Mox in the main. I think Tropical is more useful than Bayou if you're only running one green source because you want blue mana more than black mana virtually all the time until your combo turn.

>>51298714

Because I also play Dredge, and Miracles folds hard to it as often as not. Also, not many Venezuelan Legends around here.

>>51299076

>Modern is great right now and maybe if you played it you'd know it's not dart board bans

I remember finishing Modern Storm about a week before everything that made the deck tick got banned, and since then, literally every time I've considered getting back into Modern, either something crucial for a deck I've really wanted to try has been banned or some clusterfuck of a set has dropped like Oath of the Gatewatch. Even as a Storm player, for Legacy, Oath wasn't nearly as big an upset as it was for Modern. I can't escape the feeling that the fun-policing isn't making the format healthier, just setting an impossible standard for design to which Wizards has proven it can't hold itself. So they're keeping it Babby's Eternal, because god forbid they bring back good cards to combat newly-printed good cards when they can ruin things with bans.

>>51300899

Pretty much this >>51301079 or maindeck Pact of Negation. I've considered trying Unmask as well.

>>51302255

Man, I'm hankering for more 20-cent Blood Moons. No dice so far.

>scrubland
>swords to plowshares
>polluted delta
>3 brainstorm

Smells like Stoneblade. I'd probably name Force of Will, though, because Esper Miracles is a possibility.

>>51302449
>>51302454
You two are smarter than me, it was absolutely esper stoneblade. I named force which did hit one, but missed the double DRS and he just cashed in 20 damage that way.

Game 2 I catch him shields down and EtW for 12 (still not having seen stoneforge or any equipment) and lose the race against batterskull.

>>51302591
I remember before I moved back to Indy there was a consignment shop that sold all non-rare magic singles for 10 cents each. Never got to find anything super ridiculous but did get a play set of gush, daze, flame rift, diabolic edict and IA brainstorm for $2 plus tax.
It was even better because they bought my bulk singles for $20/1000, so every couple months I brought them all my draft and prize pack chaff.

>>51298714
Because I wish every game was against counterspell-laden control decks with no clock until turn 3.

>>51302620
Well it sounds more like deathblade than esper stoneblade, but I guess there''s not that much difference in terms of how you play against them. I think force is the right card to name in game 1. Not sure I would have gone for the goblins but I guess if you've seen their hand and see know stoneforge, then they have to peel it next turn or die to gobs. So it''s a calculated risk if you know what they're on.

Have you guys sold your MTGO collections yet? There's a new client coming, and WoTC has been unwilling to confirm that they'll keep the market as is, which they probably would have done by now if they really intend to keep things as they are. There's a very good chance that they'll go for a system of free cards akin to Hearthstone, which would make all the current collections worthless. I've already sold pretty much all my stuff, and I advise you to do the same. If one of the big botchains start dumping their stuff, it'd be to late. Prices are already going down quickly. Better safe than sorry, lads.

>>51306037
I don't care. Magic cards aren't an investment for me. It's a hobby that I spend disposable income on. I never expect to get that money back.

>>51306169
But it's simple to get your money back. You can sell your tickets for roughly a dollar/ticket via paypal and some online traders.

>>51306037
Damn.
*too
*akin to that of

>>51306255
>I don't care

nice reading comprehension, bro

>>51306037
Wow, lots of decks still cost hundreds online. I would be blown away of WOTC wiped away all that value overnight. Aside from say, semi-profesional grinders and streamers, I cant imagine ANYONE staying onboard and reinvesting all that money again if they did that. But WOTC has been handling their digital assets like retards for years now, so its possible.

Is zoo viable in legacy?

>>51291909
Miracles
Maverick
Aggro Loam
Shardless
BUG Delver
Anything stompy, Blood Moon off Painter is fine because Jaya and maindeck pyroblasts are dope

>>51306288
There'd be no need to reinvest any non-trivial amounts of money if Wizards take the Hearthstone route. They may think it's necessary to be able to compete with Blizzards game, which is presently crushing Magic Online. At this point, I'd say that it's likely that they'll kill the economy since they haven't said anything yet, and people are starting to panic.

>>51306372
Not at all. Its slower than Burn, has less disruption than Burn, and is way easier to disrupt thanks to its shitty manabase.

If you want to go aggro you need to do aggro/control like D&T or Maverick.

>>51306524
>maverick
you must be american

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>>51307122

>>51307539
I've heard about this fabled land where the meta has less than 30% miracles and decks like DDFT exist.

>meanwhile in Europe

Storm
Burn
Eldrazi
Lands
Miracles
Bug
Reanimator

>>51307643
Most of the people who play DDFT aren't in america as best as I can tell. The meta you describe is pretty much what I see at events

Finally decided to sell out of MUD and buy into 4c Loam. Really enjoying playing this deck, as I get to interact, and not play the "I hope Chalice is good in this matchup" game.

Just need to pickup the last 2 duals (Badlands and Bayou) and 1 more Liliana, and I'm done. (Thankfully, the owner of the LGS lends stuff out so more people can play Legacy FNMs so I can play it whilst I finish the deck.)

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>>51307643

>meanwhile in Australia

>>51291909
miracles because i have a strong dislike for playing draw-go reactive control decks. if cards in my 75 ever read 'counter target spell' in any amount you can bet i'm playing some kind of tempo strategy.

>>51312220
But haven't you heard? Miracles is a tempo deck.
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=13743&writer=Brian+Braun-Duin&articledate=1-19-2017

>>51309848
I don't know about you, but I think it's fucking disgusting that you have to sell your current deck to play another deck.

>>51312256
I read that the other day, he really got me thinking about my deck as well. I still can't see miracles as a midrange or tempo deck but I feel like I will play and sideboard differently now.

>>51312289
Its no different in other formats. I'm not going to be holding on to 2 diffrent $1k Modern decks, and I haven't payed attention to Standard since Kaladesh came out, but before that the top decks avaraged out at about $850 each.

The difference is Legacy staples almost universally raise in prices. I have bought into and sold out of a few different tier 1/1.5 decks, and made money on each one.

>>51312289

In fairness, he was selling MUD. No offense to The Artist Formerly Known As MUD Guy.

So is it worth it for me to wait around until I can procure additional Badlands to play R/B Reanimans, or should I jam U/B? I like the idea of running Force in a combo deck, and I have a feeling it'll be more feasible going forward.

>>51312627
UB I really think is the stronger deck. BR was not only flavor of the week, but ~25% of the price if a lot of Legacy decks for some builds, so it has been EVERYWHERE. That density means its goint to be in a lot more top X lists. Its also easy to pilot, which is big for people less familiar with Legacy.

>>51312619
>>51312627
I think the argument the person was trying to make was that the cards (in any format) shouldn't be so expensive that you need to sell off a deck to afford another. But I think the argument is weak. If card prices were fized at $1, and you had a deck you owned and didn't want to play, and a deck you didn't own but wanted, why would you not sell your deck for $75 and use that money to buy a new one?

>>51313896

Oh, I agree; I was just saying that selling cards to buy cards is by no means a bad thing; I sold a whole load of stuff to buy into Legacy, and in spite of the fact that I sometimes wish I could've held onto some cards, I haven't been disappointed at all. No reason to hold a Candlestick, two Cradles, and three Chalices (incl. a Mirrodin foil) when I could build a deck with cards I own plus Underground Seas and a Volc.

>>51314219
I remember when I first made a foray into legacy, it was shit-tier ANT without LEDs or even shocks. I traded a snapcaster for the core though (4 dark rit, 4 cabal rit, tendrils, PiF, Ad Naus, etc.)

So just got most of pox. Thinking of maining a set of surgical just to be that guy.

>>51315952

That genuinely sounds like a great idea, at least for a tournament or two. Hit them where they won't be expecting it.

Bear in mind that you'll probably run into problems with value decks, for which every card is a useful one (except Land Number Four), meaning that Surgical on one of their cards won't necessarily hamstring their gameplans.

You might try Extirpate instead of Surgical if you're facing a lot of countermagic.

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I like being a gimmicky piece of shit who uses obscure artifacts. Would a psychogenic probe deck work?

I know I'd need some decent way to put a kibosh on my opponent's stuff, or at least slow him down, I'm just not entirely certain how to.

>>51317900
I could see it in a funky burn deck maybe.

>>51317900
I mean theres always Path to Exile and Ghost Quarter, but you'd rather be playing swords and wasteland usually. Or just Leonin Arbiter

>>51280480
>>51280656
>>51280995
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0ZVHmUxNyQp

>>51320388
I love it. So do you play Storm?

>>51317900
I built a horrible vintage brew around it and Cosi''s trickster. You get surgical extraction, ghost quarter, path, I played extract but hide//seek might be better. But the deck kind of blew

>>51317900
You could pull off some Put creature on top of library/shuffle library combos

The fun part is finding all the weird ways to get opponents to shuffle
The sad part is actually playing the deck and losing all the time

>>51321113
>>51317900
>>51323082

If you've got a way to flash it in, seems like some spicy secret tech against Mind's Desire in Vintage.

Damn, online Vintage is really fucking expensive. $730 for a Paradoxical Storm deck.

>>51321113
>Psychogenic Probe, Cosi's Trickster, Surgical, Path, Ghost Quarter
Why not just play this in Modern?

>>51325348
I've considered it. But I just haven't thrown in together. Maybe next time I want to shitbrew.

>>51321079
I wish ;_;
>tfw too dumb to play anything but mono red burn

>>51327066
Can you put Bitter Ordeal in it?

>>51317900
Please delete this, it's my SUPER SECRET tech against 4 horsemen

>>51325150
It's 0$ on xmage and cuckatrice :^)

>>51325348
Psychic Surgery?

>>51325150
This is why proxy vintage is so based. (not that 10-proxy paradox storm is that much cheaper)

I don't care that it's likely going to be hated out by everyone, I am playing this at our local proxy vintage for duals event.

Should I buy a set of Infernal Tutors and finish ANT?
Seems like that card could use a reprint. I could pick up a set of Burning Wish, Doomsday, + Emrakul and Shelldock and play DDFT for the same price.

>>51325150
>>51327206

Just play TPS. Seriously, I have yet to see a match with Paradoxical that suggests it's even a fraction as stable, resilient, or effective.

>>51328767

Do it. Infernal Tutor is (second-)best tutor.

>>51328767
Porque no los dos?

>>51327166
Aww I liked it. Tolarian Academy was great. If I can play Storm, you can, too.

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>>51325348
•Thran Foundry and I'll probably run at least one of Jester's mask and/or jester's cap
•I already have a modern deck :^)

>>51329930
New thread up my dudes