What does /tg/ think about mage knights or Psychic knights?

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>>51196665
I think they make more sense than most systems/settings give them credit for.

>>51196774
Dat filename wtf?

>>51196774
>>51196796

yeah thats Grenth from Guild Wars man

>>51196665
I like the idea, but I feel like there's no way to do them well mechanically. You're either good at both magic and overpowered compared to wizards and fighters, or you're OK at both to the point where you can't really do either one well enough to justify not just playing a wizard or a fighter.

And yet somehow Paladins manage to pull of an almost perfect balance of melee and magic in 5e.

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>>51196665
Psychic knights wtf?

Battle mages, now that's my shit

>>51196665
Jedi did it best.

>>51196665

They're my favorite characters to play.

>>51197060
Samurai space wizards... yep it checks out.

>>51197041
jedis basically

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>>51196774

Fankly when people can finally stop being ultra autistic about dudes who can hit things also being able to shoot fireballs then character building can be made so much simpler.

>>51196665
Psychic knights of always good.
Psychic powers have a nice aesthetic: not necessarily subtle, but not flashy.
It adds a nice touch to melee characters, almost feels kind of roguish.

I prefer psychic knights as more knight than psychic, but they're nice either way.
I'm much less open to mage knights, but I prefer them to be more mage than knight.

>>51196665
I like them more as having magic specialised for enhancing combat rather than being fighters with some mage abilities, so more like book of nine swords but going beyond weeaboo fightin magic thematically.
I think the soulknife, or whatever those psychic warriors with the magic mind blades were called, would be better that way rather than as a psychic kensai.

>>51196665
Mage knight / Magi are fun, but they always seem to fall into the uncomfortable rut of "Channel powerful magic through sword". They become wizards with a bit more meat but forced into melee range, which tends to punish any kind of defensive or utility casters, further pushing the magi into a damage-or-nothing role.

I'd like to see more defensive and utility things, or a debuffer, or even a counter-spell oriented mage hunter. Something that augments being in close range instead of flinging fireballs from afar, that doesn't boil down to 'i hit you with my sword, then i hit you with my spell'. Something more than the sum of its parts.
basically what >>51197552 is saying

>>51197000
Or they are specialists in a certain type of combat and a certain type of magic. They can't make use of all the combat techniques of a warrior and they only know one or two schools of magic but they can keep pace in their specialisations.
>Ultra defence, meatbag with destructive magic
>Close range, damage duellist with illusion magic
>Unarmed, control fighter with warding magic
>Area, multi-attack, archer with necromancy
>Tactical support, warlord with potion/artifice/magical item specialisation

This would, of course, assume that a normal fighter or wizard would be good in all these fields to the point that they would still be meaningful archtypes. Fighters being general experts in most areas of combat while wizards and thief types have more utility focus and contribute to direct battle mostly through special circumstances (like surprise) or with risky trade offs or resource consumption (magic.)

The magical-warrior would be an expert in one area of combat and make of for their lack of versatility by expecting or risking spells.


Flavour wise I like the warrior-cultist background of monks and paladins (and old-school clerics) since it is both immediately recognisable and easily justifies the mix of physical and mystical abilities.
That or the knavish Blackguard, worldly and chaotic with a mishmash of weird and volatile abilities.

>>51196665

Is that not what the Cleric and Paladin are? And, true to most peoples' fears, they tend to completely outclass the fighter.

Most pics pls

And what does Psychic Knight look like?

>>51198243
More*

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I love stab-wizards! Stalkers from Ragnarok Online were my favorite class, but trying to replicate them in DnD and Pathfinder is a bitch and a half.

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>>51199954

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>>51199963

They are baller

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>>51199970

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>>51199997

>>51197634

Abjurant Champion did it well.

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honestly, i love a mage with a big ass sword.

its not even hard to do, but systems seem to not like it

>>51196665
It's a hilariously bad idea

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Love it.

If I could only beat every fucking D&D loving faggot who cries about "you can't wear plate and use magic!" to fucking death... I would be the happiest man on the planet.

If a system can't handle a wizard with armour and a big fucking sword balance-wise, your fucking system sucks. If a system can't handle a wizard with armour and a big fucking sword narrative-wise, your fucking system sucks.

Do the dice gods smile upon this thread? 6 or less means no.

>>51201270
whoops forgot to roll

>>51201383
You're right, my bad

>>51198243
Like a knight. Psychics don't look "like a psychic", they just look like people.

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>>51198243
Like a knight, but with certain touches of psychic iconography depending on how psychics were flavored in the setting. Knights would have their typical armor, but would also sport prayer beads, armor painted with mandala patterns or mystic lines/runes/characters, icons and fetishes, etc. Their weapon would probably be unique to them too if only for cultural reasons.

Like I said, the specifics would depend on the specific setting. Pic related is literally a psychic knight in a setting where psychic abilities are aesthetically connected with western mysticism and occult practices (hence the geometric patterns, sun iconography, etc.). If EYE's psychics were more, say, Hindu in aesthetic, you'd see the halo replaced with a bindi, more complex concentric patterns on the armor, and probably robes over the armor

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>>51196841
It's easy to see where someone would mix it up.

>>51196665
4e DnD did it the best and it works well right out the box.
Assault swordmage, who rape people with both sword or magic.
Defending swordmage that try to protect and rely more on counterattacks.
And luring swordmage that teleport around the battlefield raping the enemy backline.

>>51205620
Bards, artificers, and warlocks all also had access to melee fighting, if you preferred their thematics over the wizard-with-a-sword.

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>>51196665
>Mage Knights.
I love me some gish builds. Mix a bit of durability and martial skill with spells for utility and it comes together into a fun combo. Yeah you don't hit as hard or cast as hard but you're rarely hurting for options because your kit's a mixed bag.

Nevermind classless systems where you've got points in magic and points in weapons of your liking and it rounds out about the same to folks who've invested elsewhere.

Specifically Knights though...I'm not much of a historian so if I use the term at all as a DM it probably gets misused as an order of warriors rather than feudal martial servants who're given land in return for their service. That they'd happen to be psychic or magical in their skills at that point would be a coincidence of the setting (mages running shit with lesser mages running shit for them, or high psionic potential among this territory's population for some reason).

It can work out pretty well though. Sacred order of a tome whose oath is to uphold just laws and use their arcane knowledge sparingly, ever watchful that it should never fall into malicious hands. I once made a deity-type character who'd probably have a semi-magic order or three in their name, but I dunno if inquisitorial fluff would fit warrior/mages or thief-type/mages instead.

Psychic Warriors are pretty cool. Can go the minimal-visual rout and aim for mind-to-mind abilities, removing yourself from your enemy's senses to strike them unawares, shouting obscenities in their head to distract them while you bring your sword down, even using precognition to make every hammer swing hit exactly where you want it to. Of course there's the type that conjures crystal formation weapons that glow with psychic power and force-shield defenses to make up for being squishy types that put everything into either psychic powers and beating things up. Those work too.

How would magic and melee/ranged weaponry best compliment eachother without just simply buffing your weapon the round before?

>>51201081
>Can't D&D mage in armor.
Psionics have no spellfailure chance. Nab a feat or two for armor profficiency or dip fighter and a psion can rock fullplate with a tiny side investment.
Runecaster casts spells while in armor.
Spellblade isn't great but it works.
Numerous spells conjure armor for you.
Half of the Tome of Battle and its later incarnations have near-magical martial warriors.

Where'd ya run into difficulty?

>>51196665

I absolutely love them, and I'm an absolute hipster twat. When playing a single player RPG's I almost always go out of my game to make some sort of hybrid, most recently I was playing a heavily cybered mage using an SMG and the implant monowire-whip in Shadowrun: Hong Kong.

I do prefer magic rogues somewhat more though, or better yet when you throw in all three archetypes and sneak around with an enhanced sword while invisible.

As people have mentioned, very rarely are such concepts done justice. From the tabletops I'm familiar with, GURPS does it best by far.

I think it makes more sense than having 4 HP wizards going into combat situations. No one would realistically go into combat without any kind of protection.

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>>51205815
Quickly cast spells that don't impede your ability to take actions so that you ensure your mobility and reactive potential while remaining on the offensive.
>short-range teleport to keep out of reach for ranged combatant.
>spell-delivered-as-part-of-attack was mentioned above.
>Conjure barrier behind enemies to ensure they can't escape, or give you something to smash them into.
>Conjure spiked/acid pit hole in ground to aid in intimidating enemies, "That's where this is going if you don't give up."
>Melee combatant shouts lightning when adversarial monster takes to the sky thinking itself beyond their reach.
>Crossbow sniper steeped in necromancy raises the dead to flush living targets out into the open.
>Master Illusionist's reputation actually just from carrying a staff, book, and wizard hat around, really a fighter with a little arcane dabbling and a great feinting skill check.
>Frozen magic barbarian rides boar into battle, casts long-duration aura damage spells that harm and slow enemies nearby while in combat.

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Technological knights are better.

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>>51205587
Fair enough

Someone call ArenaNet and tell them they need to sue Blizzard

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>>51206166
I'm kicking myself for forgetting my main tactic for a gestalt Crusader/Psion I ran a while back. Game went up to 20 and mainly it was a self-healing AC tank build of an old Half Giant who quietly kept faith that the vile creatures of the far realm would make things marginally less fucked up than the lower-planes fiendish invasion that had been wracking the world for the past century or so.

Aside from spending power-points into virtual HP, I nabbed Overland Flight for mobility, a few long-range blasting options that never really came up because most fiendish creatures we dealt with were melee fighters and the party had a single gunslinger/bomber for range while the rest of us charged in to meet the demons, devils or yugoloths we happened to run into that day. At higher levels I ran out of the more useful stuff, but I also just nabbed one or two AOE blasting powers that were self-centered with the intent of charging into the fray, exploding, then self-healing while the team cleaned up the rest; high level one kept going for several rounds as long as I focused on it a bit each round.

We also had a Barbarian/Cleric who didn't charop and mostly did the same self-healing but occasionally did things like pacifying the whole battlefield before flying into a rage again and mucking the whole thing up.

Think most of that campaign's party was some variety of fighter/caster. Archivist/Swordsage, Warlock/Nullblade, etc.

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>>51206251
Sufficiently Advanced etc. Maybe it's telekinesis. Maybe it's brain-pattern-translation software tied to an electro-magnetic field stimulator & projector moving the swords.

End of the day, it's someone who uses non-martial skills and know-how in a combat situation.
>Doesn't that make it martial?
Everything's a weapon if you're enthusiastic enough so no, only skills that have to do with using your body or a weapon to break someone's body so they die from it.

>>51196665
>mage knights or Psychic knights?
I think those are two entirely different things with entirely different feels and themes

>>51199954
W A R L O C K
Pact of the blade is literally made for this. And you're a warlock, so you were going to go full ham on the edgy anyway.

>>51205815

Low-impact spells that for example unbalance or momentarily blind someone, opening up for a well-aimed stab the next turn are extremely effective. Geralt of Rivia is a good example here, at least in the later videogames.

Mobility spells of various kinds, levitating archers, knights teleporting in or out of the fray, etc.

Area effect debilitation in all it's glory, whip up a storm to impede enemy archers while you wade into melee, set the ground between you on fire so you can pelt them with arrows, etc.

The hundreds of other non-weapon buffs you can utilize, magic shield to complement your light mail and get protection comparable to heavy plate, invisibility and cloaking spells.

Telekinesis to extend your range or wield multiple weapons. Utilize them in ways normal biology don't allow you to. Extend your shield to cover a fallen ally a few yards away.

Of course, any sort of anti-mage-mage. Dispel or antimagic fields takes away everyone's spells, but you've got training, a sword and some heavy armor to keep you going, while your opponent has a wooden stick and a pointy hat.

>>51206502

I think you're too stuck in narrow stereotypes when it comes to two extremely varied often overlapping concepts.

>>51196665
Aren't as powerful as the real deal in terms of magic, but aren't squishy. And I like them for this.

Psychic Kniggas require willpower which can be trained with time and experience.

Entire battalions of Psychic/Magic Knights would make minced meat out of all but the most powerful enemies or well prepared enemies.

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>>51196665
Love them, built my setting around them.

>>51196665
Like almost everything it depends on the setting and system but generally I think they're a great idea.

Spellblade is my favorite archetype and it's such a damn shame that they suck in pretty much every tabletop game I would be likely to get a group for.

>>51199954
For pathfinder, I played a rogue-magus that fit the bill pretty well. I got sneak-attack, and a rogue's skill points, and a wizards utility with spells like mage hand and invisibility, but magus also focus on a bunch of offensive and enhancement spells for when you're stabbing, and let's you cast touch-spells through your blade.

>>51201081
Luckily they made it so in 5e you can cast in any Armor you can wear and in fact have a Bard Archtype specifically for Full Plate Sword Wizard, and a subpar spec for Fighters that's outdone by taking a single level in Wizard, or 2 levels in Fighter for Armor, Def Stance, Free Doublecast 2-3 times per day/combat and Pysical Saves before going 18 levels in Wizard which is Stronger than 20 levels in Wizard desu.

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>>51205479
>that teardrop below eye
OH FUUUUUCK
It all makes sense now.

>>51208298
>E.Y.E
>making sense
???

>>51196665
I like 'em, even if they tend to be forced to ignore their secondaries in Anima: Beyond Fantasy, due to being a hybrid class and having to buy both combat and mystical/psychic progression every level. Fuckhead stop laughing at the lacking secondary abilities when the Warrior Mentalist(Psy-Knight) goes from STR 10(~300lbs lift capacity) to STR 20(Unlimited lifting, so long as they have a steady surface) and literally throws a mountain at a problem.