Lightning bolt Vs. Vulturous Zombie

Spell hits graveyard after state based effects (such as damage and death) are resolved, so zombie is dead before bolt hits the graveyard.

>>51179043
this
If the card read, "Whenever an opponent casts a spell", it would work the way your friend wants

>>51179043
he says

- Cast lightning bolt
- Its not countered
- Hits zombie
- Zombie reduced to 0 life (but still on field until resolves)
- Lightning bolt sent to graveyard before zombie is sent to graveyard
- giving zombie +1/+1

i believed both would be sent at the same time,

>>51179043

bzzzt, wrong. Going to the graveyard is the last part of an Instant's resolution, so that happens before state based effects are checked. This is why you can't Bolt a 2/3 Tarmogoyf.

However, the Vulturous Zombie will die. The game will compare the 3 damage to VZ's 3 toughness after the Bolt is in the graveyard, but BEFORE the +1/+1 counter trigger is resolved.

Your friend is probably thinking of the Goyf thing.

>>51179183
>Zombie reduced to 0 life (but still on field until resolves)

This isn't how Magic works. The Zombie still has 3 toughness, it just also has 3 damage. Since damage is equal or greater than toughness, the game will kill the Zombie next time it checks (which it does between things resolving).

The Bolt will go the graveyard before the Zombie if anything you're playing cares about graveyard order.

>>51179013
Good job /tg stay bad at magic.

>>51179787
nice meme there bro, feel like supporting the thread? or just gonna be pathetic?

>>51179013
The bolt does go to the yard before the zombie, but he's forgetting that the trigger still needs to go on the stack and resolve and the zombie is long dead before those happens.
He's thinking about the goyf ruling and that's a different thing.

>>51179013

Look at it in the simplest way possible, in order for the triggered ability to hit the stack, the vulture has to take 3 damage from the bolt and therefore dies before his own ability can resolve.

>>51179013
Damage doesn't go on the stack. Anymore.

>>51179013
Your friend is correct

>>51179013
Judge here.
He's dead.

It's because we're looking at a triggered ability.
You can tell by the word "whenever" being included ("when" and "at" also signal triggered abilities).
In typical lingo, this means the placement of the counters can be "responded to", in rules lingo this means players "pass through priority" before it "resolves."

Before a player gains priority, every time a player gains priority, statebased actions (which can't be responded to) are checked for. Death due to lethal damage is a state-based action.

It's not relevant, but triggered abilities don't even enter the stack until after state based actions are check for and resolved, so his ability will enter the stack without him on the field.
When it resolves nothing will happen, even if the card is reanimated before the triggered ability resolves, as it will enter as a new instance of the creature.

So yeah, lightning bolt gets ya, it usually does.
...Tarmagoyf famously survives a similar situation though, because his ability is a static ability. It doesn't even wait for state-based actions to be checked for or resolution to end to take effect.

>>51180503
Non-combat damage never went on the stack in the first place.

>>51179234
>>51180935

For clarity the goyf only matters if there wasn't an instant in either graveyard to begin with.