/CofD/ &/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

>>51173652
>Have you ever run a mortals only game?

Nobody in the history of either game has ever run just mortals

>>51173652
>Have you ever run a mortals only game?
Three in nWoD.

I have had trouble tracking down which NWoD Mage book has a breakdown of what different Occult levels mean regarding various phenomenon (I think it had ghosts and spirits at the minimum) . There is a similar entry in the beginning of Inferno regarding Infernal Demons. Could anyone help me out with the title? Or any similar resources in other books?

>>51173652
For fans of VTMB

What's the deal with Brotherhood of the Ninth Circle? Do they have formal ties to the Sabbat or they just a Gehenna cult? It's entirely possible they were aligned with the Sabbat and have since defected.

Arguments for Sabbat Pack:
- The title "Bishop" in Bishop Vick
- Extremely low regard for humanity
- Operate in a derelict area
- If Montreal by Night is any indication, the Demons certain Sabbat packs traffic with are known to poison Kindred with infectious vitae. Bishop Vick mentions a Demon, but more likely, his comment referred to his Sire than anyone of the Fallen

Arguments for Gehenna cult
- They exist to accelerate the Apocalypse, which is against the Code of Milan
- It's implied, but not exactly stated, the Brotherhood of the Ninth Circle deny the existence of the Antediluvians, which is inline with Camarilla-tier heresy
- No official literature mentions them in any significant fashion. "Path of the Ninth Circle" doesn't even exist as a Path of Enlightenment
- The conservative members of the Sabbat don't like having blood borne diseases spreading among their kine because that, in turn, fucks with them

>>51173677
You mean only mortals as PCs, or only mortals in game, without supernaturals at all? I did first, second is kinda boring IMO, and why use WoD for it?

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>Onyx Path press conference

"Awww ye time to find out about all the upcoming books, sales, events and stuff"

>Nothing but telling people to check their privilege and how to maintain safe spaces during roleplaying

Onyx Path was a mistake. Kill me now.

The merits that the Totem grants in Wt:F 2e, can they be granted even if members don't have the prerequisites?

>>51174220
Yes

>VtM

>>51174348
>>>/r/autismspeaks

>>51173895
I think it's a Gehenna cult. They would've at least said Sabbat if that was the direction.

Anyone read Conquering Heroes yet?
Does it fix Beast?

>>51174595
Just expans on it
Everyone in the book is a deplorable

>>51174618
>Everyone in the book is a deplorable
To be fair these people are the antagonists to already shitty people. They need to reach new lows.

I ran a Mortals-only game when GMC first came out using the Road Trip story track. It was really fun!

>>51174595

Oh my, no.

>>51174595
>The Blind Man’s blotted clothing is as result of a thick trail of what resemble fish eggs progressively leaking from his navel, urethra, and anus. Particularly around his navel area, a coagulated mass of pink and black eggs comes forth when the Blind Man strains his abdominal muscles. Horrifyingly, the Blind Man has from time to time passed these eggs off as salmon roe or sturgeon caviar, as they bear a sour, fishy odor. Those who consume his “produce” have their fertility dramatically increased, and gradually produce their own eggs in a similar fashion to the Blind Man, the only difference being that mortal-produced eggs possess a coat of thin white fur. This invariably drives the afflicted unfortunates insane, as they cannot stop the egg production, resulting in self-destructive harm. The Blind Man believes that by participating in the birthing, they increase the speed at which the Primogenitor will be reborn.

Why do CofD and WoD share a general when they don't seem to like each other very much?

>>51173652
>>51173677
I'm sort if. I've found there's so much overlap between hunter the vigil and chronicles of darkness I've referenced it more than I have the hunter book.

>>51175100

Because neither can survive for very long on their own threads. The threads split for like two weeks after the Beast leak, and that much became clear.

>>51175068
Considering that the players are already doing morally questionable things to feed their horrors this kind of seems okay.

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>>51175068
Good God.

>>51174595
A Night Horrors book was never going to fix Beast. At least it gave them a new antagonist even if they're boring.

Watch the new Beast book get leaked in a shorter time than SotC.

>>51175150
>Because neither can survive for very long on their own threads. The threads split for like two weeks after the Beast leak, and that much became clear.
cofd threads do fine
wod threads can't survive on their own

>>51173986
Eh? Where is this conference? At Midwinter?

>>51174595
The somethingawful forum thread for this is full of win. They're picking it apart just like we are!

>>51173652
I didn't run one but I played in a 3-year long one when NWOD first came out. It was glorious.

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Plugging our podcast, V20 Gehenna Themed.

http://thesundaysix.podbean.com/

updates here, including past episodes

https://thesundaysixpodcast.tumblr.com/

>>51175876
>They're picking it apart just like we are!
>just like we are!
>picking on one paragraph about one character and saying it's gross

>>51176096
OK, like we HAVE been (they've went over most of the same junk we have in the past couple of threads).

>>51176096

Considering that it's this one they're picking apart >>51175068 can't really say I blame them.

>>51175179
Well, it's an NPC entity, actually.

It just sort of reminds me of Pathfinder's Daikina or whatever.

>>51176096
I don't think Beast has made that many people happy.

Is there a sourcebook for ready made mooks for a mage game?

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>>51176512
>Ready made mooks in WoD

>>51176512
night horors unbidden
1e mage awakening
order + legacy books have ready made characters of different power

>>51176512
Night Horrors: The Unbidden
Summoners
Intruders: Encounters With The Abyss

>>51174595
Just a bunch of people fixated on one Beast who drips gross maggot eggs from his dick, among other places.

>>51176096
>>51176175
>>51176315
If "this guy leaks gross things from his bodily orifices, one of which is his penis so that's the one I'm going to focus on" is the extent of the book's problems, it sounds like the book doesn't have all that many problems.

>>51176512
>>51176627
>>51176655
I think he means MOOKS. I mean, there are a bunch of antagonist NPCs.
Honestly I wouldn't worry about character sheets for "mooks".

>>51176824

It's not that it's gross, necessarily, it's that it's gross and also pretty boring. It's so much detail for something your average game isn't going to really get into. It's a far cry from that tongue parasite from one of the Vampire Night Horrors books.

The real problem with the book is that it's boring. It has the entire Chronicles of Darkness setting to play with, but all it settles for is Heroes with nothing really new, Beasts with nothing really new except for some silly stuff like the Titanic sinking one, and Insatiables, who are Beasts but eviler and with different words for Beast vocabulary.

>>51176824
Let's see. Some highlights from the reviews...
* Dick-eggs
* A crazy unwashed basement dweller woman Insatiabe who engineered a gamergate/MRA SJW attack via 'whipping her trolls into a frenzy'.
* An Insatiable sank the Titanic (and the stats barely stand up to a starting PC, if at all)
* Powers that are a mess (rolling off of stats like Lair that the thing doesn't have by default, though this is a simple fix).
* Schism, which is like Promethean Disquiet except WORSE
* The name of their powers, Esurients, literally means 'Hungries' since the base word, Esurient means 'hungry'. It's stupid lack of work for the word origin.


For example, the gamergate NPC?

>Null Snyper lives alone in a single-room apartment, which she rarely leaves. Thanks to the internet, she rarely needs anything from the outside world. The only time she dares venture out is to acquire new computer hardware to upgrade her setup. She is safe in her Den, surrounded by the glow of computer monitors and the hum of various power supplies and hard drives. Trash and old, discarded computer parts litter the floor like so many skeletons stripped of flesh.
>Her physical appearance is unkempt. She dresses slovenly and never bathes. She never interacts with anyone in person, so she sees no reason to bother. For her, the physical is a pointless waste of time that shackles her, preventing her from reaching her full potential. Everything she needs is available to her through the computer. If she had some way to shed her body and exist internet scourge entirely as information in the cloud, she would take it without a moment’s hesitation. Ironically, since she stopped caring about her appearance, she now looks more like her self-image from her youth. Her face is pimply due to her poor hygiene, and her stench reeks worse than it did even when her family tried to save money by using less water. She has an emaciated frame, bordering on skeletal, from subsisting on mere emotion without tangible flesh.

>>51176974
Are they still on about GamerGate?

I don't think even the GamerGate people care about GamerGate.

Guys, a UI for a Supernal Atlantean computer - Mind 3 or 4? I don't want it to be a full AI, just a very intuitive interface with High Speech, and the ability to make Prime illusions and record rotes.

>>51176997
It doesn't call it out specifically but it's obvious in its intent to be a gamergate-esque situation. I feel like it's kindof 'let's do all the social commentary that we push in every OTHER game line up to 11' with some of this shit.

>>51177046
>to make Prime illusions and record rotes

Those effects would require Prime, not mind.

If you want a "Supernal computer," mechanically it will likely need to be some sort of supernal artifact, and at least until the release of Signs of Sorcery, a LOT of fudging of rules.

The little you're describing is basically an awakened or semi-awakened device, and absent Imperial Practices, beyond the scope of the base Arcana.

>>51176974
>An Insatiable sank the Titanic (and the stats barely stand up to a starting PC, if at all)
To be fair, the Titanic sank irl without need for magic. Someone barely supernatural can be involved in goading the actual behaviors that happened. Or do you mean like they literally hit it with an attack that supposedly did the iceberg damage?

>>51177374
It's an Incarnate Beast so it implies the thing itself actually did it.

>>51176944
>>51176974
Goddamnit people! Remember to IGNORE HIM.

>>51177434
https://archives.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3712435&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=279 is the link; it's open for reading right now, so go read. Laugh.

>>51177490

Thats actually the best response to Beast, its not worth to even get mad about like say changeling lost 2nd or owod gypsies, it just deserves indiference for a meh game with a meh concept and a meh sourcebook.

>>51176944
>it's gross and also pretty boring.
Iunno. It's a pretty common bodyhorror thing and it squicks me the fuck out.
It also barely seems to be any real detail.

>It's a far cry from that tongue parasite from one of the Vampire Night Horrors books.
Eesh. Thanks for the memories. There's also a giant worm monster. Man, Wicked Dead is the best Night Horrors book.

Anyway, I don't really want to comment on it until I've read it, but it sounds like more of the same. People overexaggerating things because when you get right down to it, Beast isn't actually that interesting.

>>51176974
Iunno, that doesn't seem nearly as bad as you say. The Hero, I mean. The mechanical stuff is frustratingly familiar and something I thought they'd gotten better at.

>>51177050
>>51176997
It's not like Gamergate was unique in anything but it's scope.

>>51177513
I want the actual book, not a SomethingAwful thread. That site lives up to its name.

>>51177580
>like say changeling lost 2nd
u trollin' guv

>>51177635

>It's a common body horror thing and it squicks me the fuck out

Once the initial "ew" reaction goes away, there's just not really anything to it thematically or in terms of a game. That's why it's boring. It's pretty cut and dry and there's little the player can do about it.

>>51176824
Get fucked Aspel. I know you masturbate over Beast, the rest of us think it's garbage. Get over it and fuck off.

Insatiable are beasts but with all the disgusting shit rammed up their dicks. While Beasts get all the pretty shit

They're also mechanically broken.

The SA forum points out the problems inherent in deriving dice bonuses from a Lair they don't start with, when the rolls are heavily skewed towards the Beast anyway, it costs Satiety to visit the Lair and a chamber automatically "returns to sender".

Also, the Snake Guy who destroyed the Titanic has high strength but absolutely no Brawl or MA skill, making him a villain that can't even reliably hit the protagonists.

Oh, but he is really, really, ridiculously good looking
>*blue steel*

>>51178091
Oh, but he is really, really, ridiculously good looking
>*blue steel*

Please tell me they added Epic Striking Looks.

Are you stuck with a theme or personality archtype depending on the Mage Path you take?

>>51178348
Could you clarify? It sounds like you're talking about cabal/shadow persona.

>>51178382
Like
Moros: morose
Acanthus: flighty
Mastigos: cynical
Obrimos: confident
Thyrsus: exuberant

>>51177779
Infecting people with supernatural disease is good for plot.

>>51178091
SA also thinks that high numbers make something broken and that Size translates in any way to weight, and that as such a Beast could throw the Statue of Liberty.

The Snake guy has Strength 5 and likely a whole host of magical powers, it's not like he needs to punch the Titanic. I mean, in the Morning After, Esmee obtains Incarnation through poison bombs.

>>51176944
>It's not that it's gross, necessarily, it's that it's gross and also pretty boring. It's so much detail for something your average game isn't going to really get into. It's a far cry from that tongue parasite from one of the Vampire Night Horrors books.
it's one paragraph
you're having a hissy fit over it for over 24 hours

>>51173652
>Have you ever run a mortals only game?
Does it count if there are psychics and suchlike among the PC's?

So, ok. Even OPP criticises Conquering Heroes.
They complain about the mechanics.

That book seems to suck ass.

>>51178457

Path stereotypes are just that stereotypes there are jovial Moros and intellectual Thrysus. But to your point there's nothing in the rules I can recall that forbids your character having a change in personality in fact a change in a characters personality after important moments in a story can be a sign of good role-playing.

Just be careful not to have radical shifts in mood every session you may stretch the impact of it.

>>51178482

Is it? It's a guaranteed process, there's no cure or any real opening for one, and there's no real threat presented to the characters beyond "will castrate themselves and then probably die". It doesn't really do all that much, plotwise.

Other books in other lines have done body horror plots more effectively, is all.

who's the jag off who thinks saying something isn't horrible, without citing any redeeming qualities gets them points?

Mage Sight works even for blind mages?

>>51178788
It does, though they'll see it differently.

>>51178788

Yes, Dave himself answered the question in the last thread.

A blind mage just perceives the information through other senses.

>>51178348

Paths don't have mandatory personality or themes.

Certain types of personalities are said to be more likely to Awaken to certain Paths, but there's nothing preventing a pc from playing against type.

However, due to the nature and greater ease of use of their Ruling Arcana, mages of a given Path tend to develop commonalities in their approach to magic and problem solving.

>>51178677
"Here's the cure" isn't something Chronicles of Darkness is generally going to do. That's usually up to the troupe.

Do you need space conjunctional to know where something is located when using a knowing spell?

For example say I want to find a book that I know is written in silver ink and bound with brass. Would a matter knowing spell covering all the stacks tell me where it is?

>>51178866

That's fine, but usually for potentially fatal ailments there's suggestions about what could stop the process. Even a False Awakening had suggestions on how someone could stop it, even if the victim's magical meltdown was pretty much inevitable in almost all cases.

The patterning spell to regenerate list limbs is not lasting but can you instead use perfecting to get the regenerative properties of an animal to grow back a lost limb and make it lasting?

>>51178677
>>51178866
>Cures?

If you need a cure to something, find a powerful mage or make a deal with an appropriate spirit.

Everyone in the CofD setting with a real clue knows these are your only viable options.

>>51178928
Are there no solutions? I wouldn't know, the book hasn't been leaked, I have one page to go off of.

>>51178958

Well Beast is the crossover game, so going to a Mage to solve the problem would count as crossover.

>>51178938
It *can* be lasting with +2 reach and subject to your GM's approval. The main advantage of weaving over perfecting is speed you can regrow limbs in moments instead of weeks.

Why can't you use Life the shrink yourself or make yourself younger? Would lile to see a Thumbelina type mage

>>51179252
I don't know can you?

>>51178348
No because I'll make my own path

>>51178306
Close, Presence 8 and Striking Looks 1.

>>51178482
>Size translates in any way to weight

Show me the text that says it doesn't, or fuck off.

>>51178612
"seems"? Only the eternal apologist, Aspel the Unhinged, insists there's anything worthwhile in that turdburger.

>>51178709
Aspel, the stupid fat fuck. Who else?

>>51179629
What? fuck that shit. He'd have to be powerstat 8 + the stat merit to have it that high. what gives?

>>51178482
>Size translates in any way to weigh
>Size does not correlate into Weight

Small-Framed (••)
Effect: Your character is diminutive. She’s not even five feet
tall, and it’s easy to walk into her without noticing. She’s Size
4 and thus has one fewer Health box. She gains +2 to any rolls
to hide or go unnoticed, and this bonus might apply any time
being smaller would be an advantage, such as crawling through
smaller spaces. Available only at character creation.
Drawback: In addition to the lower Health, your character
might be overlooked or not taken seriously by some people.

Giant (•••)
Effect: Your character is massive. She’s well over six feet tall,
and crowds part when she approaches. Her Size is 6, meaning
she starts with one more Health point than most characters.
Drawback: Buying clothing is a nightmare. Fitting in small
spaces is difficult at best.

Giant (••, Advanced)
Prerequisite: Beast, Giant •••
Effect: Characters with the Giant Merit are much larger
than the average person. Your character takes that a step further.
While not necessarily taller or wider than any other character
with Giant, your character is dense beyond reason. She remains
Size 6, but she gains significant mass as she becomes sated. Her
Satiety applies as a penalty to any attempts to knock her over or
lift her. In addition, any object smashing into her at fast speed,
such as a car, suffers her Satiety in automatic Structure damage.
She may still be injured or knocked down, but whatever hit her
will end up just as bad or worse.
Drawback: Your character’s mass is clearly inhuman. Weak
floors break beneath her feet, and stealth may be impossible in
certain situations (though when she’s hungry, of course, she’s
much more light-footed).

Another Failed Argument

>>51179896
>Small-Framed (••)
>Effect: Your character is diminutive. She’s not even six feet tall, and it’s easy to walk into her without noticing.

Fixed for you Onyx Path

>>51179917
Is there a reference for this joke? cause otherwise American European Adults have an average height of 5~6. nominal range. the merit is suppose to make a distinction. elsewise its needlessly nitpicking

"Mage master race" meme aside why is magic considered so op? Does it really matter how you kill somebody at the end of the day you're just doing a bunch of damage in a turn.

What am I missing?

>>51180135
Magic is freeform, and usually has no fuel cost to use it.This gives it a huge advantage over every other splat's equivalent powers. It's harder to resist since quite often it allows you to affect scenery or circumstances, rendering all resistances moot - if you're using it to deal damage directly then you're not using it properly.

And given the breadth as well as depth of what magic covers (ie. everything), a single Mage may not have the right tool to counter you, but Cabal's reward variety, so more than likely his best friend will.

Plus if they're every really stuck they can summon the equivalent of a high rank Spirit in their chosen arcana, or go into the Astral and punch your reputation in the dick until you have villagers with torches and pitchforks coming after you - beating you without ever confronting you

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>>51179896
INB4 Aspel responds with

>look I haven't read any of the source material that's ever been published, but...
>literally [hyperbolic argument]
>Trump is actually a Nephandi and Pence is the manifestation of Eater-Of-Souls
>I know your disability and how you want to be represented better than you do
>I have some writing, can someone critique it? ALRIGHT, ALRIGHT, ALL THESE CONSTANT ATTACKS, JESUS, FUCK YOU WHAT DO YOU KNOW

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>>51179659
>>51179896
>>51180219
>Aspel doesn't read the books
>Except for the times when they do, and point out how fucking stupid people are being
Or maybe cats and babies and swords and skateboards all weigh the same.

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>>51180219
No Spoke don't look it's too horrifying

>>51180275
Size, not weight

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Is there something like True Faith in the new world of darkness books? I wanted to make a kind of traditional, Van Helsing sort of character to contrast with a lot of the modern setting, but haven't really noticed anything that I could replace True Faith with.

>>51180300
Yes. My point is that Size and weight are unrelated, so saying "I can lift an object of Size X" does not mean that you can take that object, figure out it's weight, and then say that you can lift an object of Size Y because it has the same weight.

>>51180405
So you want a weight table too?

>>51180392
You need a mechanical advantage to use a character trait?

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>>51180405
>Size and weight are unrelated,

>A Definite correlation is not a relation

>>51180448
>implying it's not cool as shit holding up a cross and actually scaring away pussy vampires
>implying you can do that without true faith

>>51180467
Get an Obrimos to enchant your cross with invisible sunlight.

>>51180219
Who's the Grandmother then?

>>51180392
Van Helsing was a doctor.

Also, you might want to go with a member of the Malleus Maleficarum. They have Jesus Magick.

>>51180613
Capitalism

>>51180445
No, I'm just pointing out that the two are not related.

>>51180464
The definite correlation is "things of roughly the same size are often but not always of the same weight". But things in the same weight category are not inherently related to each other due to their weight.
Although I'm not sure why it bothers me that much anyway. The argument was about how a Beast could theoretically throw one thing because of how much some other thing weighed. I don't actually care that a Beast could throw a skyscraper if they have two specific Atavisms, Lair 10, low Satiety, and spend Satiety. The game breaks when you get to 10 Power stat regardless, and a Frenzying vampire at that level can chew through steel with their fangs, but no one complains about that.

>>51180828
>I like using antimatter as an everyday example. which is about as dense as myself

how many times you want it explained?

baby= small
teen = medium
adult = large

knife = small
sword = medium
lance = large

Thats a correlation of escalating weight to size. Stopping being obtuse for no reason. You don't have a leg to stand on

>>51180275
>Or maybe cats and babies and swords and skateboards all weigh the same.

Yeah, what of it?

>>51180936
All of those weapons listed way far less than their respective human size comparisons.

>>51181146
>way far less
Fucking Anglish

>>51180936
You know, I wrote up a much longer comment where I actually pointed out the weight of a baby, a skateboard, a 13 year old girl, and a halberd, but I feel like this sums it up better:

https://youtu.be/uH0hikcwjIA

>>51180135
Magic is EXTREMELY flexible.
If you can name it, a Mage can do it.
It's a bit of an exaggeration, but it's rather true.
Every Mage can't do everything, but some Mage can do anything.

Oh, and Mages are far beyond just doing damage. A Master who wants to kill you, will. One spell cast, and you are dead.

I've been reading over the Blood Sorcery book and I want to use the Protection Theme, but I can't think of anything cool to do with it.

Any ideas anyone?

>>51180275
It's almost as if weight increases with the Size value.... which is what I said in the first place, you stupid cunt.

>>51179830
All Incarnates have to have Lair 8 minimum.

>>51180392
There is a Hunter organisation who can channel miracles.

>>51180135
Not only is Mage magic flexible and cheap, but a Mage with high Arcana can often beat another splat at its own game in that arena.

Also they have actual time travel which everyone but Demons lack access to so if you aren't a Mage with time magic or friends with one and your enemy has access to Time magic you're fucked. Most Arcana can do things that anyone not prepared for will be unable to counter, like trapping people in pocket dimensions with Space until they suffocate to death.

>>51181484
Anon. No one is saying otherwise. In the most general of senses, yes, larger things are heavier.
But the point I am trying to make to you is that in many cases a smaller object can be heavier than a larger object.

A skateboard is six pounds. A baby is six pounds at birth, but about 20 pounds by one year. These are both the same size category.

A Halberd--a type of spear, essentially--is six feet long and weighs about five pounds. A thirteen year old girl is about five feet tall and weighs twenty times as much as a halberd. These are the same size category.

Do you understand now?

Size as a game mechanic has no relation to weight.
A kilogram of steel and a kilogram of feathers have the same weight, but the feathers have a larger Size.

>>51180275
>what are "loose categories", Daddy?

GTFO. You're most likely one of those fags that whinge about men and women not having separate Strength tables.

>>51181647
You're still citing exceptions to try and prove your rule. Even ignoring your "pound of feathers" argument, the Size chart is clearly increasing in weight as you go up.

>>51179252
Wouldn't increasing/decreasing size be Space?

>>51173895
>What's the deal with Brotherhood of the Ninth Circle? Do they have formal ties to the Sabbat or they just a Gehenna cult?

Gehenna Cult.

>>51180135
Because Withstand scales terribly, especially on things that use the Ephemeral Entities rules, and can outright ignored with an Exceptional Success, which is fairly easy to cheese with Praxes and Rotes.
The only other splat that can do something similar are Unchained, and they need Overclocked or Precision Engineered Gadgets with the Overwhelming upgrade to do it, which are inherently more limited.

>>51181993
Yeah, I think it was a reference to the "ninth circle of hell" from Dante's Divine Comedy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inferno_(Dante)#Ninth_Circle_.28Treachery.29

>At the base of the well, Dante finds himself within a large frozen lake: Cocytus, the Ninth Circle of Hell. Trapped in the ice, each according to his guilt, are punished sinners guilty of treachery against those with whom they had special relationships. The lake of ice is divided into four concentric rings (or "rounds") of traitors corresponding, in order of seriousness, to betrayal of family ties, betrayal of community ties, betrayal of guests, and betrayal of lords. This is in contrast to the popular image of Hell as fiery; as Ciardi writes, "The treacheries of these souls were denials of love (which is God) and of all human warmth. Only the remorseless dead center of the ice will serve to express their natures. As they denied God's love, so are they furthest removed from the light and warmth of His Sun. As they denied all human ties, so are they bound only by the unyielding ice."

Interestingly, the first layer of that ring was called Caina after, you guessed it, El Papa himself.

> this round is named after Cain, who killed his own brother in the first act of murder (Gen. 4:8). This round houses the Traitors to their Kindred: they have their necks and heads out of the ice and allowed to bow their heads, allowing some protection from the freezing wind.

>>51180275
>Or maybe cats and babies and swords and skateboards all weigh the same.
Approximately, yes.

>>51181955
Depends on how it is done.

>>51182561
yeah, 5 - 7 lbs.

Remember folks, the more you know, the more you know than Aspel, because he's an ignorant shitheel. the fat tranny bastard

Please tell me someone has a PDF of Conquering Heroes to share

>>51173677
Funny you should say that, because I'm just statting up a character for a game with mortal-only PC's, with no supernatural merits allowed.
Since I haven't played any NWoD campaigns before this and the only OWoD campaign I played was pure vampires, how viable is it to make a character with zero brawl, firearms or weaponry- your everyday computer geek, for example?
I'm thinking of adding in some criminal connections and possibly an illegal gun or two if it doesn't pan out, but I'd like to get an informed opinion first.

>>51173652
what are the novels with the weird bloody sex scenes and awful dialogue?

i fancy a laugh

>>51175835

Now do the other paths.

>>51173986
Wait what?

>>51173652
I love that pulp art picture

Looks so bad ass. A dude taking it to the mafia, or in this case vampires

>>51181955
But you wouldn't be altering Space, just reducing your own mass or making it denser. Matter, maybe.

>>51181658
>>51181676
The Size chart is increasing in weight because bigger things are generally heavier.
An empty cardboard box can be Size 5 and weigh nothing.

Again. You can't assume "I can lift an object of Size X, so I can lift an object Size Y because it has a similar real world weight".
Size doesn't even translate to volume.

>>51184257
And yet a strength enhancing power such as Vigor is explicitly related to the ability to throw objects of a greater Size.

>>51179252

You can do it with Matter+Life.

>>51180275
>Bicycle
>Adult with Giant merit
>My sides
The 'murrican is strong in this write-up.

>>51179432
Tremere approve.

So how is Angelic Cover supposed to work?

>>51185326
A full cover you literally step into that person's life. You look like them, have their personal connections and history, know their ATM pin etc.

You can then top this up with other aspects by bartering them fro people. So you decide Alan Braithwaite, your cover, would be more convincing if he had a pet. But Alan never showed any interest in animals before, so getting one would be a potential breach. So you make a deal with Susan Slade, who is drowning in gambling debt, to clear her debts in exchange for her relationship with her dog.

You fiddle with reality and now everyone remembers that Alan always had a dog named Isosceles (Susan was a primary school math teacher and massive dork) and nobody remembers Susan ever having one, but her mother is glad she's finally getting her gambling under control after that windfall.

Can a vampire in requiem 2nd edition choose not to heal a wound?

I am planning on a carthian thinker who pretends to have a limp as to feign weakness. As auspex is sherlock holmes vision now i am wondering how tonarchieve that.

>>51185573
You can spend a point of WP to retain wounds and scars through the night. The damage heals, but the outwards damaged tissue stays.

>>51184505
Yes, but that's because GENERALLY bigger objects are heavier. MECHANICALLY Vigor 1 lets you pick up a lead statue even if you can't lift a copper statue of a Size category higher.

>>51184759
I don't see what that has to do with America, but it's not like it's the weirdest. A spear is 6'-8' long and six pounds, but a teenager is like 5'5 and 110 pounds, but they're the same.

>>51185326
Angels have their covers fully created by the God-Machine out of whole cloth.

>>51185684
>MECHANICALLY
>What is RAI
Clearly.

Would imbued items be a good 'quest reward' for fairly new Mages?

Sure, weight may vary quite a bit within a size category, but the statue of liberty is hollow in side and mostly made up of thin copper sheeting. If you're strong enough to throw something "in it's size category", you should definitely be able to throw it since it's going to be one on the lightest things in that category.

I would rule that you nred to spend quite a bit of time crumpling it up into a dense, throwable ball though. You simply aren't going to be able to apply enough force to the statue using a surface area of two human hands. They'll just tear straight through the statue instead of lifting it.

Are there any articles or supplements to nWoD that expand the Morality system? The book only uses like, theft and murder. What about shit like slavery, or lying, or psychological manipulation, etc.?

>>51185992
Ask your ST, it's just a toolbox

>>51186006

I am the ST

>>51186105
So you decide

>>51185992
"Mirrors" supplement has a chapter on Morality from page 42, including a few alternate systems. It's 1st edition, so the jury's out on whether you'll find it useful.

A good rule is to take an immoral action and reduce it to the hurt it causes. Psychological manipulation to get out of a speeding ticket is a very minor violation. Playing on someone's fears to keep them in an abusive relationship is more serious. Convincing someone to commit murder is arguably worse than murder, because you ruin an additional person's life.

Well guess fucking what. Dark matter is effectively a size 0 so everyone should be able to lift it, but has infinite weight.

but dark matter is NOT an everyday common object. so it is NOT a valid example to look towards. How much more are you going to bend over to limbo under the bar? The Intent of the rule is fucking obvious.

>>51185746
Not the thing we're talking about?
I'm literally talking about people using RAW to subvert RAI.

>>51185912
It may actually have been the other way around, I don't particularly remember, but the argument was that if you can lift something of X Size and it's Y weight, you can lift object Z because it's the same weight.
Personally I'd argue that the combination doesn't even work because you're using Size twice, and that even if you could lift something of that size, there's not enough surface tension to do so without it falling apart. Although admittedly for Beast you could argue there's a "tactile telekinesis" thing (which I think is the explanation some Superman comics give?)

>>51186556
>Dark matter is effectively a size 0 so everyone should be able to lift it,
>The Intent of the rule is fucking obvious.
Actually, most characters don't have magical powers that say they can lift an object of X size. A vampire with Vigor 1 could lift Dark Matter.
Which is kind of my point. Bringing WEIGHT into it when the power only cares about Size is a misleading argument. It's like the peasant railgun.
Also, even within the valid examples the weight to volume to size ratio is basically handwaved anyway. You can have something that's 6 pounds and 20 pounds in the same category, or six pounds and 110 pounds.

Which is why "I can lift object Size X so I can lift an object with the same weight" is not a good argument.

>>51185992
>>51186105
Those are examples to help you understand what Breaking Points are at those levels. Not the only things that cause breaking points.

>>51173895
They seem to be a Gehenna cult, though that's a bit too grand a statement as Vick doesn't really seem to care much about Gehenna specifically so much as just ending the world in any way necessary.

Brother Vick just seemed to be particularly pissed about his Embrace. He comes across as a guy who was previously a God-fearing man but who had a lot of bad shit happen to him, the end result of which was him cracking.

I mean, on top of everything else, the guy's a Toreador but he looks hideous and never really displays any kind of artistic talent or skill. His own clan probably rejected him even before learning that he was a mistake (a "social" Caitiff).

>- Extremely low regard for humanity

That's by no means exclusive to the Sabbat, or absent from the Camarilla.

>>51185573
Yeah. If a vampire doesn't spend Vitae, they don't heal.
They need to spend Willpower not to do it while sleeping the daysleep though.

'Sup /wod/.

I am looking for a map of a modern city. But it has to be pretty specific and I -think- the kind of city I am looking for doesn't exist in the real world.

It's a World of Darkness, modern city. It should have the following:
>ocean access
>mountains
>forest
>plains
>lakes
>a small river
>a sizeable commerical ("Downtown" district)

And I'm drawing a blank here. Halp? I can give a more detailed write-up of what the city has.

tl;dr - need map of modern city

>>51187625
Vancouver

>>51188013
>Canada
>Modern
Pick one

>>51188045

If it's modern enough for TV and Movies, it's modern enough for WoD.

>>51188093
They don't even set the tv and movies there they just pretend they aren't is some backwards crazy land.

>>51188145

Exactly, just use Vancouver and then call it another city. If it's good enough for them, it's good enough for an ST.

>>51187625
Sankt Peterburg. It's just missing the Plains and Mountains, but it has Swamps so that could make up for something.

>>51188093
Canada is perhaps one of the most boring countries on the planet.

>>51188203

It's funny but I'm from Saint Petersburg, and I still have fond memories of my summer home in Sestroretsk. And I need mountains because I need at least 3 caves.

>>51188013
Yeah, I've had someone suggest it to me, but it's a bit too big - I'm looking for something that has about 300k-400k people?

Alternatively, if you just know of a good city-making program, I could just try that.

>>51188524
So get rid of a dense population district and make it industrial or something. The city pop is only like 600k people.

>>51188524
>Alternatively, if you just know of a good city-making program, I could just try that.
Its called Adobe Photoshop

>>51188524
>And I need mountains because I need at least 3 caves.
Why not seven? Is Aztlan not good enough for you, huh?!

>>51188713

Is there a SR reference that I am not getting? I would love to include Aztlan in WoD. I have the Cheiron Group acting as them.

>>51173652
I have run mortals only. Right after WOD 2.0 came about, my friends and I only had the core book. We were desperate to give it a shot, so we just went boring old mortal with it.
Strangely enough, it was one of the better games I had run...

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>>51187045
>Vigor one lifts an infinite weight
wtf? are you an idiot? Vigor does not do that. Vigor is extra str not infinite str.

>>51189272
Almost like Vampire doesn't account for astrophysics. But that wouldn't make any sense.

>>51189349
>Applying astrophysics to non scifi modern game
Disgusting

>>51189067
The Aztec origin myth has the people of their tribe emerging from seven caves in Aztlan. The Aztecs were named after it, the Aztecah being the people of Aztlan. This group is the Mexica ethnic group of Tenochtitlan and the triple alliance that we in the modern day think of as the Aztec empire (there were also two other tribes involved but the one on top was the Mexica which is why its Mexico today and not Tapeneco or something).

>>51187625
This Anon in this other thread had a really good idea, you might want to look into

>>51187721

>>51189447

Oh right, the old "drop a box of pencils on a sheet of paper, then trace their outlines, that's what the city looks like" technique, that's a good one.

Somebody get me through this nightmare
I can't control myself

So what if you can see the darkest side of me?
No one will ever change this Beast the Primordial I have become

which nWoDs got a 2nd edition?
vampire, werewolf, and promethean?
is changeling going to get one?

>>51190931
Yes.

>>51190946
ok, see you next year, then

>>51190931
Mage got a 2nd edition last year.
Demon and Beast use the 2nd edition ruleset, but were absent during the 1st edition.
Not only is Changeling getting a 2nd edition, playtest material is already published on the Onyx Path forums.
Geist and Hunter are getting 2nd editions in the nebulous future.

>>51191033
but there's no 2nd edition of the core book?

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>>51191060
Yes, there is. It's called "Chronicles of Darkness". That's how nWod is called now - it's been renamed.

>>51191175
oh, so use the chronicles in the pastebin's mega, and toss my old books in the rubbish, and ignore the world folder

>>51191060
>>51191175
That was the short version. The long version: The Onyx Path wanted to do a second edition for a while, but the rights owners were against that. To work around that, Onyx Path created the God-Machine Chronicle. It was a second edition in all but name. Some time later they finally got permission to make an official second edition, but soon after the rights were bought out by the Paradox game company. The new owners want to promote the oWod across multiple media, and don't want to have people confuse oWod with nWod - hence, the rename.

>>51173652
I've run a very successful campaign that was pretty much mortals only.

The characters were all "normal" high-school students, although one of them did gain limited psychic powers after Hitler's ghost turned him into a conduit for a cthonian diety, and another turned into a Sin-Eater during the game's finale...

>>51191227
I don't where you're coming from. Many of the 1st edition books are still usable. Vampire 2nd and Mage 2nd recommend their old books as resources.

>>51191267
>>51191296
now I understand, thank you

>>51191033

Man, I really hope Geist 2e is good.

>>51191350
I'd be surprised if it wasn't. They have a great concept to work with, time to write it without rushing it and feedback from the 1st edition. I kind of hope Sin-eaters could do Stand battles with their Geists, but that's probably wishful thinking.

>>51191320
One more thing. In the 1st edition you needed the WoD corebook and the corebook of the game you ran. WoD+Vampire, or WoD+Mage and so forth.
In the 2nd edition all game corebooks have WoD rules included, so you only need one book, like Vampire, or Mage. "Chronicles of Darkness" contain a few more subsystems and a neat monster creation guide with examples.

I recently saw a meme that Phil Brucato is full retard and thinks playing a Nephandi will turn you into a serial killer ala Chic Tracks and am wondering if anyone has clips of the book or source of that. Or page and title.

http://www.businessinsider.com/young-blood-plasma-transfusions-anti-aging-remedy-2017-1

The Elders are getting craftier.

>>51193034
>Phil Brucato meme
m20. the entire book

http://projects.inklesspen.com/fatal-and-friends/latwpiat/mage-the-ascension-20th-anniversary-edition/

>>51193468
How does he keep getting work with results like this?

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>>51191434
>I kind of hope Sin-eaters could do Stand battles with their Geists

Dont play with my heart like this!

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>>51193522

>>51193487
Because OPP is trying to out-shitlord Dracula?

>>51193583
nono anon that's Beast

Phil is all good old fashion WW's

>>51193522
>>51193550
This is great

>>51187045
Shut up Aspel, you never even read the books anyway. You are a faggot, case dismissed.

>>51187625
Seattle

>>51194801
>Is literally explaining the mechanics of the game to people
>Has never read the books
This is a fucking stupid meme.

>>51193487
Because Rich Thomas thinks Phil's shit smells like cinnamon buns and spiced mead.

So, Richy Rich abrogated the entire M20 line to the stupid, coke-snorting fuckwit. The end result? M20 is so hoplelessly broken, hard to read and utterly contradictory that they had to release an entire second book called "How do you DO that?" just to explain the fucking MAGIC SYSTEM in a GAME ABOUT MAGES.

Even then, the second book fucked up, so now they need to print a third one.

I've wised up though. I'm not paying for any of this Onyx Path shit, I'm trawling auction websites for 10, 15 year old books for something that's actually playable. Fuck Onyx Path. I hope they go bankrupt, the smarmy ultra-lefty shit-eating fuckwits.

>Sidebar: Vote Socialist or you're a failure as a human being

>>51195106
"meme?"

I guess you were absent the thread where he admitted as much, then.

>is literally explaining the mexhanics of the game to people

Is *that* what he's doing? I thought he was citing exceptions in an attempt to prove his own interpretation of the rules. Anyone else get that impression?

>>51195324
Makes sense.
With how big of a mess M20 is I wish I hadn't backed the kickstarter at the "mega ultra deluxe tier". But at least it's a nice looking $375.

Could have filled up my collection of Revised or earlier books with that money.

>>51195324
You know what I really like from the M20 book? The abilities and secondary abilities section, I mean is so full and bloated

Wait, maybe like it's not the word I'm looking for

>>51195391
Aspel believes a starting level vampire can lift Dark matter. Thats exactly what he explained. His interpretation is more than just autistic

>>51195391
Yes, that is what I am doing. I am explaining that you cannot say "I can lift something of Size X, so I can lift something of Size Y because it has the same weight". The only way that weight and size are related is that in general larger things are heavier. But again, being able to pick up Size 5 worth of steel doesn't actually mean you can pick up Size 10 worth of feathers. This isn't even me defending that mechanic, it's me explaining that's how it works to point out that you can't go from A to B when the two are not actually related.

Why do I get the feeling you just jumped into this conversation halfway?

Also, I said "I don't read the books" half jokingly--because I used Subnet--to highlight that you don't need to read the books to know what's going on, but people don't even put in half the effort.

>>51180006
There's a joke on 4chan that any man under 6 feet tall is a manlet.

Of course, that text uses female pronouns, so it doesn't work.

>>51195324
>Blaming the new company for the old company's bullshit

educate yourself mate. Phil is all old school WW. You're just getting the unedited unraw version of old world slop. Confused abandoned characters and convoluted gonzo conspiracies. Because that's what sold

>>51195572
>Yes, that is what I am doing.

Cool, ignorance confirmed. Stopped reading right there. No-one else reply to the stupid faggot, this conversation is wasting posts.

>>51195461
If you think THAT is bad, wait until you get to the part where "everyone is dumb because Chaos Magick is the Light, the Way and the Truth"

>>51195588
Text says five foot. Are you sure you can read Anon?

>>51195647
The anon "corrected" it to six feet, because le manlet meme.

Except they forgot to change the pronouns to male, so now it's just some sort of giantess/amazon fetish joke?

>>51195633
>If you think THAT is bad, wait until you get to the part where "everyone is dumb because Chaos Magick is the Light, the Way and the Truth"

This is really the biggest problem with the book, it throws away the coolest thing in the setting. Paradigm.

>>51195552
That's because by the mechanics, a vampire can lift dark matter.
>• Lift and hurl objects normally far too unwieldy to use as weapons, such as boulders, cars, and other people. Any object she can lift, with Size no greater than her Strength, can be used as an improvised melee or throwing weapon. Improvised weapons have a weapon bonus equal to the lower of their Size or Durability. Objects with Size greater than 5 deal lethal damage to mortals, while those with Size 10 or more deal lethal even to vampires.
As long as the core of a neutron star is less than the vampire's Strength, mechanically they can lift it.

Again, this isn't me saying "this is how I would rule it" or "this is how it's intended to be". There are very light objects within Size 5. I can lift a door or a bicycle without much trouble, and I don't have Vigor.

I'm saying that you cannot take the real world weight of object A and assume you can lift object B.

>>51195633
So I don't read the books, but when I do read the books I'm ignorant?
Ya'll keep jerking off that I never criticize anything, yet when I criticize something you jump on me and act like I'm wrong.
What the fuck is wrong with you fucks?

>>51195677
>he doesn't know about womanlets

>>51195632
>Not blaming the company that hired Phil
>Not blaming the company that paid Phil
>Not blaming the company that chose to give Phil total control
>"Daddy, what's an Executive Decision?"

Brucatto may well be "old school", that's not up for debate. I'm just flabbergasted that you seem to think M20 developed independently of both White Wolf and Onyx Path control. Rich Thomas decided to hand over the entire thing to a complete fuckwit, because Dracula trusted him to do so. They didn't have to get "Satyros" in charge, they could have approached any of the other devs that worked on the line, but noooooo they had to get the one guy that rants and rants for pages about how evil cheeseburgers are, and then apparently refuse to edit a single line of his inane dribble.

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Wait, in theory Onyx should release all their oWoD promised/leftover books this year right?

Or at least they wouldn't be able to kickstart anymore since it would conflict with WW's revival

>>51195756
They have permission to do all the remaining planned Kickstarters.

>>51195695
Agreed. They mangled it up with Foci to the point where Paradigm is fucking useless and pointless.

>My Virtual Adept casts Matter 3, Prime 1.... by practicing yoga!

>>51195712
Shh, grown ups are speaking.

>>51195712
>So I don't read the books
Sounds about right. Simple fucking detection. We're done here, the criminal confessed

>>51195784
Near as I can tell the reason he cut it (and in general never gave very apt descptions of them in previous writings) was he thought people would use paradigm's to do real magic.

Is there a word that means more retarded than retard?

>>51195756
You mean scanning in the old titles?

At the last Gencon conference for Onyx Path they stated that someone was trying to access old disks from the "Archive Room" and there was some prototype Zip-Disk thing that the company sank hundreds of dollars into 15 years ago that corrupted and broke in less than 3 years. The result; some OPP intern is trying to track down anyone who worked on the old projects (writers, artists, editors) who might have original proofs for scanning. If that strikes out, the final resort is buying an old pristine copy of the 2nd hand market, unpicking the binding and scanning it page by page.

What follows is a back-and-forth between Onyx Path, White Wolf and DriveThruRPG's printing company until all three parties are satisfied with the final result. Then and only then are the titles offered for POD.

This means that two titles could begin work at the same time, but see presses literally months apart. For reference, the last POD title from the back catalogue was "Wolves of the Sea", and that was at least 6 months ago.

>>51195737

Hey old man old world is your bag and your writers. no need to lump the new writers in your cracked pot as well.

OK, so most people in this thread don't like Beast. I can live with that. But if you had to say something good about it (non-sarcastically), what would it be? I, for one, think that Lair is the coolest Powerstat of the CoD. I also like how Beasts don't have predefined Breaking Points and are thus free to define their moral code in light of their Hungers.

>>51195884
So second hand copies it is then. I wonder how much they'd pay for the old copies.

>>51195866
>The diagnostic term 'mental retardation' is finally being eliminated in the upcoming international classifications of diseases and disorders. The term 'mental retardation' was introduced by the American Association on Mental Retardation in 1961 and soon afterwards was adopted by the American Psychiatric Association (APA) in its Diagnostic and Statistical Manual for Mental Disorders (DSM-5).[1,2] Mental retardation replaced older terms such as feeblemindedness, idiocy, and mental subnormality that had become pejorative. Now, over 5 decades later, the term 'mental retardation' is being eliminated for similar reasons.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/782769

I think the appropriate phrase you're looking for is "massively intellectually and cognitively impaired".

>>51195893
I have two words for you and your "new bag".

>dick eggs

>>51195932
The make your own monster aspect is pretty cool. and the simplified mechanics are helpful for new players, and cross splat games.

But it's hamstring by the writing. Yes there are some good things about it. I can note where something was well done. As well as point at where it's horrible

>>51195932
The book makes a really good doorstop. It also provides a flat surface for me to roll joints on. Finally, it's heft and weight makes for a useful missile to throw at Aspel.

>>51195932
Lair's were cool, they allow for you to easily transition a scene into an alternate dimension.

Sadly the things using layers have some sort of built in Gas Lighting philosophy and insist they are teachers. Seems shoe horned and not supported by the text.

>>51196029
HA Beast is universal pan as the worst. Nice try Freak Legion

>>51195943
I'm not sure... I know there are at least three books that they really want to get their hands on, but I can't find the post on the OPP forums that mention it. I don't know whether the cheap bastards would even pay you, so much as grant you a discount on your next DriveThruRPG purchase
>*grins and glint on teeth goes PING*

>>51196056
Beasts are like ogres
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZpcwKEIRCI

>>51196064
What's wrong with Freak Legion? I have heard of Vagina Dentata being used to sort out any number of trouble Werewolf players that insisted on turning sessions into ERP. The book contained large amounts of new Fomor powers and the comic at the start was pretty cool.

The rest of your post reads like you have a head injury.

>>51196139
Without Freak Legion how would I figure out the rules for my character's multitudinous dick tentacles?

>>51195850
That just means people who don't read the book know the game better than you.

>>51196177
You're thinking too small.

Combine your demonic genitals with Inner Volcano, or those parasitic worms, and ejaculate death all over your foes.

>>51195932
I think Lairs are a neat idea, but bad as a power stat. It doesn't FEEL right to have your power stat be your Evil Lair. I also think that defining your own moral code would work better if there were rules for that, as opposed to ditching the rules entirely as if it were something new. It's new to WoD, but MOST games don't have morality traits. Most games are also dumb. I come to CofD to have my morality tested.

>>51196197
Apsel confirmed

>Believes that scholars are retards and scientific fact is irrelevant to how people feel

Thats how Trump got the vote don't yah know. and You anit no Trump

>>51195893
Marian Apparition (*)
Target number of successes: 5
Sacrament: A piece of pure white cloth, stained with a single drop of menstrual blood

>menstrual blood

uh-huh. What was that about a "cracked pot" again?

>>51196249
Cause Trumps a winner and never loses. My god am I so sick of winning all the time.

>>51196249
You're not a scholar, this game isn't scientific fact.
You accuse people of not reading the book when they know it better than you do.
THAT is how Trump won.

>>51195712
Do you not understand about RAW vs RAI? I mean, are you fucking retarded enough that shit has to be spelled out 'Okay, so you can lift this exact list of things'? God you're a moron.

>>51196300
>He has a problem with menstrual blood in a magical evil Christian ritual

>>51196363
No, you dumb fucker, that list exists. That list is based on Size, not weight. Which is why using weight to determine what you can lift with a magical power based on Size does not fucking work.
How are you having trouble understanding this?
Read the fucking book.

>>51195932

It has a lot of potential for historical settings.

>>51196056

The whole point of Lessons is that it's bullshit the Begotten feed themselves to feel less bad about terrorizing mortals.

>>51196300
Oh do periods make you feel sick Anon? They're so icky icky aren't they Anon. Well You see a woman will pass an unfertilized egg out of their crotch. and the dispel can also include left over blood.

But don't worry it's completely natural to wake up blooding from your dick. Because your father castrated you in the middle of the night screaming how you were a mistake and all he ever wanted was a little girl to dress up and sodomize. But a dick less fag boy would do just fine

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>>51196352
>You accuse people of not reading the book when they know it better than you do.
>THAT is how Trump won.
The only book Hillary read was pic related

>>51196373
Oh okay, is there a lot of menstrual blood used in Christian festivals and rituals where you are?
>>51196395
Shhhh, little Aspel. Grown ups are speaking.

>>51196400
>The whole point of Lessons is that it's bullshit the Begotten feed themselves to feel less bad about terrorizing mortals.

Its a boring add in that does more to take away from the game then to justify it. They went from "You were always a monster and you need to keep yourself in check" to "A monster ate your soul and its okay to victimize people now because you've been taken over by a monster who wants to teach people".

>>51196352
>Still believes all ANon are the same.
>Believes Vampires can hold dark matter
Can we add Paranoid to the list of things wrong with this tripfag?

>>51196450
>>51196472
Read the book.

>>51196448
>Things That Never Happened: The Post

Any other bitching you want to make, or words you want to accuse us of typing? I get that you're grumpy over your womb bleeding, but there's always a hysterectomy if it's that much of a hassle. You still haven't explained how menstrual blood = christianity because you can't

>>51196458

The Horror doesn't give a shit about teaching people, it just wants to feed. Lessons are a shitty rationalization people make to themselves to feel less like a psychopathic monster when they feed the horrid, hungry thing inside their soul.

>>51196472
The list is long, my friend.

>>51196477
Shut the fuck up, you fat tranny bastard, grown ups are trying to talk.

>>51196501
It makes them boring and uninteresting idiots who don't actually think about anything while claiming to be teachers. It even eliminates room for self reflection with how poorly shoe horned in it is.

>>51196400
>The whole point of Lessons is that it's bullshit the Begotten feed themselves to feel less bad about terrorizing mortals

You know what does this better? Lancea Sanctum. The biggest problem we keep running into, is that lessons being good is the stand point of the writing. and not something talked about as a viewpoint in game like the Lance's Church justifications being in character

>>51196481
>menstrual blood = christianity because you can't
That's on you mate. you're the one claiming that shit. Anon never made that statement

>>51195715
The cutoff for womanlet isn't "under six feet".

>>51196534

And that's why I want to see Beast settings with other philosophies besides Lessons.

>>51196587
ALMOST LIKE THEY SHOULD HAVE HAD A FUCKING SOCIAL SPLAT.

>>51196576
If they aren't over 6 feet I don't even bother calling them women.

>>51196648
>tfw 5'11"

>>51196675
You're a big girl

>>51196675
Anon said "Women," Jakki.

>>51196567
And yet, he flew off the handle like his priest had been making it gargle it since his first communion.

Try to keep up, Anon.

>>51196648
>women

Wymyn.

>>51196764
If I asked all the women of the world what it was to be a lesbian, they would be silent, oh mother.

And yet, if I was to ask all the men (men is the derivative of womyn) in the world what it was to be a lesbian,

they would talk their small dark and vicious minds for an eternity.

Oh man, oh male, oh sapien, oh cock

Virile vulvic pole vaulter, creamy contorted control tower penetrating the big fluffy clouds of all womyn.

Oh man, oh male, oh sapien, oh cock

Ramrod frothing spring roll, dipping, dunking, drooping, into the soy-sauce bowl of all sisters, to gain that sweet and sour pork

Oh man, oh male, oh sapien, oh cock

Siamese-eyed invader. Cake decorater, squidging, squirting, splodging,
the cheap white carbohydrates upon the womyns lemon-meringue sponge

Oh man, oh male, oh sapien, oh cock

I reject thee, I reject thee, I reject thee...thrice

Oh man, oh male, oh sapien, oh cock

Feculent fist thrust cruely inside the mother-earth, glove puppet.

Frontend-loader, mining, scraping, painting, defiling, filling the unwilling velvet goldmine, with splodges and wet wads of baby gravy

Oh man, oh male, oh sapien, oh cock

Loathing laden ladel lavishing lumps of creamy,
airy white sauce upon the womyn's chicken maryland hairyland.

Oh male, you wish to fuck this body, you wish to fuck...it..now?

Well thou shalt not, thou shalt not, thou shalt not...thrice

Oh man, oh male, oh sapien, oh cock

Furious frown invading the loving understanding vertical smile of all womyn

Oh man, oh male, oh sapien, oh cock

Single headed dog, pissing on the fallopian tree

Oh man, oh male, oh sapien, oh cock

Pink and purple pajero family wagon, driving around in the vulvic cul-de-sac.

You total sexist bastard get out of our lives.

>>51196511
>grown ups are trying to talk.
Not in this thread they aren't.

>>51197056
Well you'd best fuck off then. I'd hate for your teenage friends to accuse you of being sooooooooooooo immature

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1s8Gjn7DlE

Storytelling hints and tips seminar, Gencon 2016

How many dots in what spheres does a mage need to r63 someone?

How many do to it against their will?

Can any other splats transform someone like this?

>>51197693
>what sphere do I use to change the biological makeup of a living thing

Gee, I wonder.

>>51197724
I don't play mage, and in this case the 'thing' is a Vampire.

Another player has been threatening to turn my Gangrel into a little girl and I'm worried he can actually do it.

>>51197749
Yes.

>>51197749

It would be Life, but dealing with a vampire makes it fucky. And vampires can do that to anyone if they know Viccissitude, which is unlikely.

Also,
>playing a crossover game

>>51197775
I don't think Viccissitude exists in our game? It's 2e Chrondark Vampire.

>>51197749
Vampires aren't really living beings, not even when they are using the Blush Of Life. You need the Death Arcanum to affect them. Since turning humans into different humans can be done with Life 3, I'd say transforming a Gangrel into a little girl would require Death 3.

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When I die, I'm going to Hell. There's a special part of it that they're going to have set aside just for me. I don't know what they're going to torture me with, but it's gonna be pretty bad. At the very least, I bet the entire thing will be stocked with fucking Pepsi.

Man do I hate Pepsi.

>>51197802

Then why are you asking about Spheres?

>>51197825
Because I don't play mage and I thought that's how it worked. How DOES it work, now?

>>51197860

Spheres are for oWoD Mage. CofD Mages use Arcana.

>>51197860
Oh, it's exactly the same, only they changed the terms and act autistic and pretend it's better than it was, when we're still just grown-ups playing play-pretend and there's no cause to be snobby in the first fucking place.

>>51197889
I see. My bad for being confusing!

I legit just do not know how mages work and what they can do, because I was never interested in playing one and looked through the rulebook to see what they do.

So now I'm just in a 'Wait, you can't actually DO that, right? Right?' situation, and it's got me nervous. I don't wanna be the little girl.

>>51197802
>I don't think Viccissitude exists in our game? It's 2e Chrondark Vampire.

Is this true?

>>51197922

Your first mistake was running crossover. A Mage could likely polymorph someone, though I'd rule it would take a decent amount of Life and Death both to alter your shape so profoundly.

>>51197928

Vicissitude isn't in Requiem outside of the Conversion Guide. The closest you can get is the Norvegi discipline, Bloodworking.

>>51197922
It'd make feeding nice and easy, though.

>What's the matter, little girl?
>*sob* I'm lost.... *sob*
>Oh, you poor little thing.... (leans in closer)
>OM NOM NOM

Plus, imagine the shadenfruede when you infiltrate a pedophile ring and start ripping dicks clean off at the base

>>51197860
Magic is separated into 10 Arcana, which govern the fundamental aspects of the cosmos. You can have 1 to 5 dots in each of them, with every new dot unlocking new Practices and more advanced applications of old Practices. The basic dice pool for all spells is your Gnosis + Arcanum, which can be increased with Yantras (magic circles, incantantions in High Speech and all that wizardly stuff) and Rotes (which add your rating in a Skill to the dice pool). You subtract dice from this dice pool to increase the Potency of the spell, which must exceed the Withstand rating of the target. Withstand is usually a Resistance Attribute plus whatever bonuses they may get from Merits and Willpower expenditure. Lastly, you may modify the characteristics of your spells by applying Reaches, but there's a limit of how many you can safely apply before they start incurring Paradox.

>>51197966
What's so bad about crossover? I can see that trying to keep track of all the different systems of each splat would be difficult, but I get the feeling this is not the biggest reason why crossover gets such a bad reputation.

>>51197977
>>51197966

I only have 4 dots in vampire powers, so assuming the wizard is of roughly similar power, it sounds kind of unlikely he actually has the mojo to transform me.

Speaking of mages and crossover games, I'm playing a mage in a crossover (revised) game that's pretty vampire centric. I'm the only non-vampire in the group and this is probably dumb of me but this is also my first time playing a mage.

Is there anything in particular I should be aiming for? I already have Light Sleeper and Iron Will as merits to fit in better with vampires, but what are some spheres that can help me deal with them easier? I already have two dots in Spirit, and one in every sphere that isn't Entropy, Forces, or Time.

>>51197922
>Wait, you can't actually DO that, right? Right?' situation, and it's got me nervous

In theory, Mages CAN do virtually anything, including changing your vampire's body into the shape of a little girl.

However, it would require and strong proficiency in Death (and maybe Life or other Arcana), and would not necessarily be easily accomplished, either as a mechanical, rules matter or due to setting implications and repercussions. Also, being transformed into the body of a little girl, while possibly humiliating, would unlikely be permanent, and the vampire would still keep all their vampiric powers.

Simply, while all mages will certainly not present a terminal threat, it's still very prudent not to piss off the really powerful mages, and changing body shape is just one of a vast myriad of creative and unpleasant things that can accomplished by an angry and determined wizard.

>>51198024

The rules aren't terribly balanced for it and the themes get real muddy if you do more than two complimentary games. It isn't a /terrible/ idea, but it winds up feeling more like monster-themed superfriends than a game of personal horror IMHO.

>>51198024
There's themes colliding. With one splat you can work with a series of clear themes, with more you have dozens of interesting things for everyone which only barely get any time highlighted so everyone feels like they aren't getting the full experience of playing their character.

Its hard to get deeply involved in local vampire politics if you have Pure plotting to contend with and are trying to hunt for relics while ensuring the Mage gets a chance to do research and the Beast remains fed so nothing stupid happens.

Nobody gets what they want, everyone gets something worse than a compromise.

>>51198050

So it sounds like it's not likely he can transform me, there's a very real implied threat of 'Step off or I will use my magic to fuck with you and make your life unpleasant'.

>>51198104

If you're referring to a mage equivalent of a low experience vampire character, then yes, it's unlikely he could transform a vampire into a vampire child.

However, note again that even with low levels in an Arcanum, with a modicum of creativity, most mages can make anyone's life (or unlife) extremely unpleasant.

Most mages by inclination and ability are researchers and academics, and have more than enough problems and interests to deal with that they don't go around hunting vampires or irritating the local vampire community. Vampire interests similarly don't usually involve mages, and they are sufficiently supernaturally informed that they see no benefit in needless confronting essentially armed and dangerous foes capable of wide scale masquerade breeches when there are ample stupid and weak human sheep than can be manipulated to achieve their ends.

Since there's no inherent antipathy among the splats like in the oWOD, if anything, mages and vampires are far more likely to engage in mutually beneficial and temporary alliances for limited purposes when they choose to interact, and when they do come to blows, attack each other indirectly using proxies and influence.

Can Garou become possessed and turn into Banes, Gorgons, Drones or Kami?

inb4 all the haight-ers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDaGSJpGMmA

>>51195932
The subjective morality where both the protagonist and antagonists believe they are in the right is neat and I think there's a lot to work with in that regard. I also find the parallels it has between mage and geist interesting. Additionally find the cohabitation with the supernatural thing really helps sell the shared world that is CofD

If I could figure out exactly how to come up with plot hooks for it I'd want to run it for my group.

>>51198024
>>51197922
>>51197749
>>51197693

Should have played a Mage, you fucked up

Mage supremacy is a real thing and you'll know why soon

>>51197819
What is this

Also I like pepsi

>>51198956

A newbie mage is hardly a significant threat to a comparable inexperienced other major supernatural splat given the latter's inherent, inbuilt advantages.

"Mage supremacy" doesn't even really begin to be a thing until a mage reaches the level of an adept, or at least a disciple in many Arcana. Mages simply have a steeper power progression due the the breadth of the Arcana.

>>51198972
>Also I like pepsi

Dr. Pepper is a Scelestus of unimaginable evil.

Hi guys, I got VTM20 awhile back and haven't run it yet. Do you guys have any tips on how I should go about it? It's my first ttrpg, and the first for my friends as well.

>>51199001
Yeah but once mages get going shit gets nuts very quickly.

>>51198104
Does he have Life 4 & Death 2? Because if he does I'd start developing some contingencies just incase.

>>51199093
>Yeah but once mages get going shit gets nuts very quickly

When your power set is "alter reality," your antagonists are essentially "everyone" and "symbols of oppression that rule the universe," and one of your major game themes is "what does someone do when they suddenly have immense power," "shit getting nuts" is to be expected and encouraged.

That's precisely why crossover is so difficult. It's the thematic dissonance just as much as any mechanical imbalances.

>>51199070
Play VtR instead

>>51199182
Everyone else crosses over just fine. Mages being Dave's personal wank bank is the issue

>>51199228
Why?

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>>51198972
It's the introduction to a thing I'm working on: the Vampire the Masquerade Monster Manual. Like I had written, the lack of a decent "Monster Manual" for VtM or V20 or whatever, a single work just full of ready-made NPCs/creatures/etc bugs me.

Just letting /wodg/ know that it's in the works, wondering what people think of it. Probably bad things, but oh well. It'll be useful for my games, anyway.

>>51199235
I can't decide if the Crossover Chronicle smashing mage supremacy would be funnier than supplementing it.

>>51199235

Mage crossover issues existed well before Dave became developer of Mage 2e, and go as far back as oWOD.

>>51199258
I'd keep it on hand. Populating OWoD cities can get tedious.

>>51199259

By the time OPP ever releases the Crossover Chronicle, Mage will be ready for a third edition and power bump.

>>51199235
>Everyone else crosses over just fine.

lol no.

Not without the game degenerating into Gothic Superheroes Fighting Everyone's Agreeable Badguys.

Werewolf and Changeling are so far apart that even touching each other would destroy one game's themes.

>>51199150
I have no idea what his particular magic powers are, just that he's pulling some magical-school exchange student shit up with some Ordo members that are investigating a Magic Wibbly, and my Invictus bosses told me to go approach him and keep an eye on him so that he doesn't get turned into a liability and used against us by the Carthians or Circle. I'm only MOSTLY sure that he's of equal character experience to my own.

>>51199292
That's one of the things I really like about WoD.

I don't think it has much in the way of internal consistency across settings, but the sheer variety in tones and settings is really fucking cool. I'd kill to play Promethean some day.

>>51199248
Because that person's no fun and prefers a bland as fuck setting. Ignore him. Play V20.

Funnily enough the VtM Monster Manual I'm making might actually be useful to you, although it's only about one-fifth done.

Anyway, my number one tip is finding out what kind of game your players want to play. Vampire styles itself as a Storytelling Game of Personal Horror, set in a World of Darkness. However in my personal experience it is a Storytelling Game of Chucklefucks, set in a World of Ow I Stubbed My Toe Someone Turn On the Damn Light.

Basically the game wants to be taken super-seriously but most games of it that I've run end up basically being farce, especially with new players.

A few other notes:
- Combat is lethal, it should be avoided when possible, especially at the start of the game.
- Generation is by far the most powerful Background, mostly because it's the only one that can't be raised through pure roleplaying. The mechanical benefits of Generation 4 and 5 (9th and 8th Generation respectively) cannot be understated. I highly recommend banning players from taking more than three dots in Generation at character creation.
- Have a good idea of the Story you're trying to Tell. Write up an outline, but - AND THIS IS IMPORTANT - only an outline. Your players WILL deviate from any plans you make, so it's best to just roll with it.
- Figure out what kind of game your players want to play before anything else.

>>51199292
That's why Beast was so important

>>51199259
I'm more interested in how you can use magic to empower other splats. Would a spirit perfecting spell empower a werewolves gifts? Can you use prime and life tot create a fount of vitae for your vampire buddy? Could you use matter to render a changeling immune to cold iron? etc.

>>51199309
Alright, that sounds like some good advice. That monster manual sounds awesome by the way. From what I've heard them say thus far, they seem to want to have a kind of serious dramatic tone, I was thinking of going a crime-drama angle. Maybe Mafia?

>>51199258
This looks fucking good

Gimme more

>>51199315
>That's why Beast was so important

Well, OPP and Matt sure screwed the pooch on that one...

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>>51199336
Sure, I'll post what I have so far so you can see where I plan on going.

I was not expecting positive responses (I have run into a LOT of elitism in WoD, both old and new, to my more D&D-style approach to the system). This has made my night.

>promise engaging crossover support
>fail

>promise DRAGONS YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY
>fail to deliver

I'm glad I wasn't around for Beast's kickstarter, because I would have funded it on what they said and I'd have been very upset with what I got for my money

>>51199353
Really appreciate you working on this kind of thing, it's really cool.

>>51199150
What contingencies even ARE there for a mage casting at you, aside from the antimagic blessings from Secrets of the Covenants?

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>>51199258
What program are you using to write it up? I started a similar thing for CofD crossover, but didn't get very far.

>>51199380
Wear five coats so you count as size six, forcing him to Reach before casting at you. Hope he blows the roll and fucks his spell with Paradox

>>51199355
YEP GREAT USE OF MY MONEY qq

>>51199381
Microsoft Word 2013. That's all.

>>51199380
I'm going to guess a high Willpower can't hurt, but then I haven't played much nWoD, or either Mage in general, for that matter.

>>51199389
IF that legit works that's the funniest thing I've read all day.

>>51199409
Huh. I still haven't really figured out how to do a good two column in OpenOffice.

>>51199414
>>51199389
>IF that legit works that's the funniest thing I've read all day.
Being Size 6+ means the Mage has to Reach to affect you, but the ST allowing you to be Size 6 just from wearing more clothes is unlikely. Really, what will best protect you from a Mage casting against you is high Resistance Attributes, which translates into a high Withstanding. Withstanding essentially nullifies X Potency of a spell, making it weaker (though many powerful Unmaking spells only NEED one Potency). Withstanding is essentially Resistance that removes successes instead of removing dice.

>>51199414

If "wear bulky coats" is your strategy to defend against magical assault from beings who bend reality with their will alone and fight cosmic horrors on an average day, I suggest you promptly update your will and say goodbye to your loved ones.

>>51199326
>Maybe Mafia?

Sounds good. The obvious choice here, then, is to make the antagonists the Giovanni, the Clan that got their status as a Clan when Cappadocius' vitae fell off the back of a truck.

Also your typical Giovanni likes banging his sister SO MUCH that he doesn't stop, even after she's dead. They're big into Necromancy, of both the "just 'cause youse died, youse no good ghost, doesn't mean youse ain't gonna tell us where youse stashed the goods, capice?" variety, and the "necrophilia zombie incest gangbang for fun and profit" variety. Your typical Giovanni has grown up seeing so much shit that by the time they're Embraced, nothing the vampire world can offer is really all that horrifying or unsettling to them.

Perhaps the Giovanni can have their mafia gang starting to encroach upon the local mafia gang, and the players need to put a stop to that.

>>51199456
Sounds like a good start. Thanks!

>>51199353

Don't let anyone bring you down, this is pretty good.

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>>51199444
>>51199456
Typical Mage supremacists

>>51199444
>Huh. I still haven't really figured out how to do a good two column in OpenOffice.

Hang on...

1) Go to Page Layout
2) Hit columns and go to More Columns
3) In the window that pops up, select 2 for Number of Columns
4) In the same window, set the spacing to "0.2". This sets the columns to be only a fifth of an inch apart, rather than the default of half an inch.

That's what I do, anyway.

>>51199456
Oh yeah, there was one more thing I wanted to ask. How do you do combat in VTM? I noticed that in other RPGs a lot of people have grids and maps where the fights take place, is that necessary for VTM?

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>>51199456
>banging your sister
>not banging your great great great grandma

Weak, man

Just weak