Alpha Legion Uses the Most Effective Form of Warfare

>>51150002

no

>advanced is better
The enemy cannot push a button if you disable his hand

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>>51150096
Hah, did you really think that was my REAL hand?
*teleports behind you*

Memery

>>51150002
Fulmentaris

>alpha legion are the best
>signed, not alpharius

>>51150002
Their problem is not how they fight. It's how they are commanded. Everything is on such a need to know basis that removing key components of the legion will leave cells of Legionnaires aimless and forced to strike out on their own, most likely to the detriment of another cell. It's how they ended up in the position that they're in in M41.

>>51150160
The whole XX structure is based around decentralization. The Alphas work far better when cut off from leadership than any other legion.

>>51150002
They're extremely effective and I really like their CIA black ops in space vibe, but the problem is they are doing this just for fun and overindulge themselves just to prove how superior they are. Less so in 41, but insuring the great crusade it was just one big show off.
However, I wish they had stayed loyal (inb4 memes). They'd make a great chapter. Bit like Raven Guard without muh edge

>>51150279
>implying it's a meme that the Alpha Legion stayed loyal

Someone explains to me how 8 ft tall brickhouse can be experts at infiltration.

>>51150147
Alpha Legion centered stories make for the best books.

I'm not even exaggerating, the short stories of them are too damn good.

Example: An inquisitor rushes an Alpha Legionnaire with shock troopers and barely wins, managing to disarm the AL guy from his sword.

>Wait... whats' that ticking sound?
>The sword was a bomb
>boom

>>51150370#
>advance stealth technology
> being where the enemy dosent expect you to be
>signal jamming
>misinfomation
>train local operatives

Use your brain, stupid.

>>51150228
Only when they realize they have been cut off.
Otherwise brother Kill Maim Burn is the only one left in charge, and he tends to be trustworthy

>>51150326
Having daemonic princess, destruction of a score of loyalist chapters and running cells of cultists who wreck hive cities isn't a loyalist behaviour.

>>51150370
Psykers.

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>>51150002

Pfft The Alpha Legion are no match for the Tempestus Scions

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>>51150002
Actually they are not.

1 No one trusts them at all
2 The infiltration they do is time consuming
3 A complicated plan has more points of failure
4 They are arrogant as fuck, which is a huge blind spot (but the main reason they are fun)

So not the perfect military force

t. Alpharius

>>51151071

>Alphic Hydras
>Specialize in stealth combat
>Friends with the Ultramarines

oh lord

>>51151077
Trying to mislead us about your inherent superiority AGAIN, Alpharius?

I won't underestimate you this time!

>>51150375
Where I'm from, we consider putting twists like that outta your ass to be bad and lazy writing.

>>51151984

Sounds like where you're from makes books about as interesting as reading a car manual.

>>51152108
>He doesn't enjoy reading car manuals
Are you some kind of unmecanized faggot?

Actually, we use a neat little invention called foreshadowing.
You should read Nemesis by Millar, you'll probably enjoy it.

>>51152264
It's garbage. Don't ever make a recommendation to me again until you mature 10 years.

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>>51152404
Indeed it is. And it's mainly because it's filled with gratuitous "You think you defeated me? Hahaha, it was all part of my plan!" moments.
See where I'm going?

>>51150002
Iron Warriors use the most effective form of warfare by far. This is indisputable.

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>>51152524
No I don't, one story has a guy with a bomb as backup (plausible) and the other one is capeshit that I grew out of long ago.

Now do you see where I'm going?

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>>51151071
>Alphic Hydras
>Friends with Ultramarines
WE'RE IN.

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>>51152537
The Iron Warriors will make any oponent suffer Heavy Casualties™, but in the end they still lost Paramar.
However, they made sure everyone lost it as well.

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>>51150002
You cannot bring your full strenght to bear against a descentralized enemy, that much is true.
But as with everything, there are advantages and disadvantages to that.

I say their warfare methods are some of the most resource-intensive ones.

I mean Kharn wastes no time sneaking about or planting intelligence agents. He simply rushes forward and chainaxes some guy's face off...but it works.

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>>51150002
>Alpha Legion is the perfect military force
>Gets BTFO by Dark Angels
>Gets BTFO by Imperial Fists

Seems like DA and IM are the perfect military force then.

Its been mentioned before that they were so ridiculously obsessed with secrecy and convoluted schemes that they actually are inefficient. During the great crusade they often spent years engaging 3rd dimensional chess when a sledgehammer assault could have taken the objective in weeks.
>>51150160
>everything is super secret, therefor one would figure they'd have a super centralized command system.
>somehow they are lored as being hyper independent with a flexible command structure.

>>51150997
They are both loyal and traitor.
Some cells stayed loyal, some did not.

Some stayed loyal up until the ultras killed Alpharius/Omergon (one of them anyway)
The remaining 1/2 of a primarch went off to found the grey knights when his other half died (he's now half in the warp, half in realspace, who better to lead demonhunters?)

Half cut out the rot of the imperium killing corrupt nobles and organisations in hit strikes before they can do any real damage, and the other half kill the shining examples of humanity who are true leaders and heros before they can turn the balance.

no clear leadership, both sides think they are the true 'alpha legion' and one fucking hell of a mess across the galaxy with nobody who even remembers why they were spread out like this in the first place.

>>51151071

How has anyone not expanded upon this yet

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>>51153045
They mysteriously dissapear

>>51152708
>crashing this fort with no survivors

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>>51153376
I wonder how the AL feels knowing 30k's Bane is an Iron Warrior

>>51153578
background on this guy?

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>>51153641
>Dreygur, now known by his brethren as "the Gravewalker," took to the field once again as a Consul-Praevian. Where once his charges had been Legiones Astartes of flesh and blood, they were now automata of iron and ceramite; walking engines of death forged by the Legio Cybernetica and bonded in service to the Iron Warriors. Shunned by his Primarch and brethren he quickly came to favour the company of his unliving charges, who showed him more loyalty than those he called "brothers." At Epsilon-Stranivar IX, it was the loyalty of these automata that kept him alive to exact revenge upon the Alpha Legion that had abandoned him. Yet through all of these dire events, he remained loyal to his Legion until the Battle of Mezoa, where on the basalt plains before the roaring Forge Spires, that the Salamanders Dreadnought Cassian Dracos, the Dragon Revenant, tore down his unflagging loyalty and indestructible determination through some unknown artifice, replacing it with a savage new purpose. Nârik Dreygur was to become a close confidant of the Iron Dragon, rarely seen except in his presence, a silent and brooding warrior who would serve as Cassian Dracos' right hand throughout the wars of the Horus Heresy.

HH6

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>>51150002
Getting their arses handed to them?

>>51153045
it's such a blatant red herring that any expansion on it will immediately ruin it

>>51153709
Sankyuu~

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>>51153753
The thumbnail looks like a fucking shark

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>>51152960
>The remaining 1/2 of a primarch went off to found the grey knights when his other half died

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>>51150002
Except a given form of warfare being the most effective is relative to the conditions in which that war is being fought. Since different conditions make a given form of warfare more or less effective, and there are theoretically infinite combinations of conditions, there cannot be an objectively superior form of warfare. Since there cannot be an objectively superior form of warfare, it is impossible for any chapter to specialize in it. Because the Alpha legion cannot utilize the most effective form of warfare, they are not the perfect military force.

tl;dr, your argument is dumb, you're ugly and your mother dresses you funny

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>>51150117
>Hah, did you really think that was my REAL hand?
I'm Alpharius

>>51153967
Oh shit, I'm seeing it now

>>51153801

I mean they're fucking painted red. As red as a red herring can get.

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>>51152627
Stay stupid, kid!

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>>51153578
Wouldn't Mortarion be 30k's Bane?

>>51152678
> Implying the Scions are the Alpha Legion.
> Not realizing that the Alpha Legion leaked "Intel" that they were going to try infiltrating as Scions arriving in two groups.
> Not realizing that the Legion intercepted the orders to alter them, and assigned two groups of 50% of the chapter each to kill one group and take their place.
> Not realizing that the Alpha Legion moved in and took the Ultramarines place, and that the Scions are the Ultramarines.

>>51150279
Basically this.

Their fighting style could be the best of the best, they just get carried away. I like that they use agents to destabilize a target before striking hard with extremely fluid combined arms.

>>51152760
Means attrition in marines and resources. Can be slow and wasteful.

>>51152760
Wasn't Kharn the 8th Captain?

>>51152760
Always felt odd how Kharn is lucid in his reasoning and not just a crazy lunatic as everything about him would imply

>>51156078
>>51153801
EXACTLY! They WANT you to think its just red herring...
Because it is!Or is it?

>>51150279

I don't see Raven Guard as edgy.

>>51157232

It's probably to show how far he has fallen.

>>51150425
You can't be serious

>>51152825
>Implying AL was really BTFO
>Not realizing they're being pulled in the direction that the AL wanted all along

20th dimensional chess

>>51153641
He's big

>>51150002
In theory sure, but in practice the basic rule of "Keep It Simple Stupid" applies to military strategy as much as it does to anything else. Alpha Legion plans tend to be overly complex, which means that without author fiat they would be more likely to fail.

I love the AL, but the way they are written tends to play their weakness, an obsession with overly complex stratagems, as a strength. The real strengths of the AL is their flexibility, unity, and willingness to delegate.

>>51157712
>Alpharius got decapitated by Dorn
>Dark Angels annihilate an Alpha Legion fleet and kill hundreds/thousands.

Some autismo level planning going on there Alpharius.

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>>51152960
>no clear leadership, both sides think they are the true 'alpha legion' and one fucking hell of a mess across the galaxy with nobody who even remembers why they were spread out like this in the first place.

No, they are united by a common ethos and a common mission. Loyalty is the ethos, and the mission is humanity's survival. When the Cabal showed Alpharius the vision of humanity's inevitable destruction he decided to dedicate his legion to humanity's preservation, knowing this was the true cause of his father the Emperor.

Some cells work to strengthen the Imperium, to make it a better tool for Humanity's survival. Others disrupt and weaken it, so that humanity won't become dependent and will instead continue to grow and adapt as a species.

>>51157287
>Signed, Omegon

>>51156888
Well Perturabo is a big guy

>>51150002
Not really a huge fan. They're very gimmicky, and their gimmick is based on making anyone they oppose look stupid and incompetent by pulling off extremely elaborate plots. They kinda hurt the setting.

>>51150375
>>51152627
Jesus fuck this is stupid. No one can help you if you can't see how stupid this is.

>>51157994
JUST. AS. PLANNED.

>>51150375

With the notable exception of Legion, all the stories that involve the Alphas are rollicking good fun.

>Alpha mission to infiltrate secret facility
>Alphas are described as out-perfecting the other legions
>Mission success at the cost of strike team and facility
>Omegon was trolling Alpharius the whole fucking time

I'm currently reading "Alpharius trolololols Dorn", and even though I know it comes to nothing and was likely never intended to succeed in the first place I'm having fun watching them basically wag ass in the wind at Terra and daring them to respond.

>>51158301
That shit is why I love the alpha legion. When I first got into 40k I fell in love with how they operate.

my dudes are pretty much aLoyalist themed alpha legion but either some complicated differences.

>>51150002
>Alpha Legion Uses the Most Effective Form of Warfare
*Death Guard/Imperial Fists/Dark Angels/Ultramarines Uses the Most Effective Form of Warfare

fixed that for you

>>51152537
Was tempted to say that, but they treat Astartes as if they are guardsmen.

>>51158405
That's an interesting combo of legions, anon - what makes them the best?

>>51157948
THIS

>>51157174
A named character MUST be captain of the first AT THE VERY LEAST. Come on, get with the times...

>>51157174
He is, but the HH books are written as in universe history books so mistakes and misinformation are bound to happen. Besides Kharn is the 1st captain to anyone outside the legion.

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>>51156888
Teatricality and misdirection. Powerful agents to the uninitiated...but we are initiated, aren't we, anon?

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>>51157039
Whaaaaaat

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>>51158405
>Death Guard fights like Ultramarines
Come again?

>>51150279
>Edgy RG

???

>>51150002
>The most effective form of warfare is to infiltrate your own dudes everywhere.
Yep, that's why WW2 was won when it was revealed that several members of the SS were US infiltrators who assassinated Hitler, or why WW1 ended when Erich Ludendorff had a train he was riding in derailed by Italian commandos.

War is won through the combined forces of heavy machinery supported by infantry. At the end of the day the scale of resources matter much more than the quality of resources. If the Soviet Union in 1945 invaded modern Belgium the USSR would win because they simply have enough tanks, infantry, and artillery to overwhelm any forces in their path. The assault rifles, modern tanks, and special forces of the Belgians don't matter as Belgium needs to not only inflict proportionally massive losses on the Soviets but physically halt their offensives as well.

Beyond that marines are shock troopers, not special forces, not a line army (although the legions functioned much like a singular army they still were closer to shock troopers in that their role was almost entirely offensive). They don't exist to sneak around harassing enemy supply lines, they exist to smash into the enemy army with the brunt of their forces and shattering enemy resistance. Their best uses in the fluff were in this manner (eg. Ullanor and the Second War for Armageddon) and it makes sense since a 7-8 foot walking tank with a gun that fires 20 mm rockets is a shitty stealth trooper.

>>51158697
>but the HH books are written as in universe history books so mistakes and misinformation are bound to happen
kek
No anon. Geedubs dropped their whole 'unreliable narrator' schtick. Get with the nu-times: we don't live in the 'everything/nothing is canon' age, we live in the 'retcon' age now.

>>51158869
Read the fucking book you retarded fuck.

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>>51158894
>butthurt, the post
Oh, okay, anon! I'll get right on that....

ITT:

Alpha Legion were pretty great when they worked in tandem with 17 other legions to fulfill a grand objective, but fucking suck on their own otherwise.

>>51159011
No actually dont, just keep spouting retarded shit about a book you probably havent read because thats so fucking smart.

>>51158846
Anon has never had a moose sneak up on him in the woods - 7 feet tall AT THE SHOULDER (head and antlers are another fucking two feet at least!) and weighing over 1500 pounds. Glides through thick trees and swamp like a hot knife through butter. You don't hear them until they want you to hear them - usually when they charge.
So, YES space marines can stealth.

>>51159095
I ain't talking about a book, kiddo - i'm talking the whole damned setting - why so butthurt? Did your precious headcanon get shaken?? That's adorable!!
Seriously, though: grow the fuck up.

>>51159181
>I ain't talking about a book

>>51158869
>HH books

Cool b8 "kiddo".

>>51159095
I read it, and I read all the books that came before it - you should try the same! You will soon discover that what you believe is not how things were....

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>>51159323
Oh, you dun goofed...

>>51159147
>So, YES space marines can stealth.
Doesn't mean its efficient. Space marines should deepstrike or teleport into the battlefield and swiftly shatter the enemy leaving them in shock at the foe that witnessed.

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>>51158846
>a 7-8 foot walking tank with a gun that fires 20 mm rockets is a shitty stealth trooper.
Cameleoline
Not to mention the RG also sneak a lot in power armour, while their scouts are busy scouting.
>Yep, that's why WW2 was won when it was revealed that several members of the SS were US infiltrators who assassinated Hitler
Literally Exodus' fluff. He achieved compliances that way without comitting the full legion to them.
>War is won through the combined forces of heavy machinery supported by infantry
Which they ALSO do. Didn't you read about the SIEGE of Paramar?
The AL absolutely fucking love sabotage and misdirection, and even then it is many times done by spy serfs rather than actual marines, which is how they achieve the -1 to enemy reserves disruption.
Like how they managed to send false orders, demolished roads, left the enemy stranded and led an augmented Ogryn company to an ambush, swiftly eliminating the only elements that could slow their SHOCK troops while the rest of the enemy's army was struggling to even know what whas happening.

The Alpha legion are at their best a combined arms mechanized infantry legion that loves sabotage and has an independent and flexible chain of command.

You want to berate sneaking marines? Then find the RG and tell them so.

>>51159438
What about when deep strike and teleportation is unavailable?

>>51159438
But anon: that's only ONE style of war - why limit yourself? Do come along and get with the program...

>>51150002

Disappointingly, Dorn proves that sometimes the straightforward approach is the best one.

At one point, he goes "Look, Alpharius. I know it's you, man. You did everything right, and I STILL knew."

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>>51159604
To be fair, Primarchs are perhaps among the only two dozen people in the whole galaxy that would recognize Alpharius, and even then nobody knew about Omegon.
Not to mention at the end they go "meh, we're still the Alpha legion", which is something the Ultramarines know well as they were defeated on Eskrador even after Alphaomeganius(?) was killed.
Except that account is a lie.
Pictured Alpharius, I honestly think.

>>51159681

The book where Alpharius dies unfortunately suffers from marketing issues. There's a sequence which is just there to show off the Lernean Terminators (But seriously, you'd think the Alpha Legion would have the lowest number of Terminators) and volkite weapons.

Their main weakness seems to be that all of these complicated plans crumble from raw force, or when someone does something suicidal and unpredictable. Like the way Dorn just lets himself get stabbed in the final battle, and the Chapter Master disrupts the blow.

Like, sometimes a fist to the fucking face is the solution.

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>>51159720
>But seriously, you'd think the Alpha Legion would have the lowest number of Terminators
Memes aside and in all honesty...why would you ever think that, anon? The Alpha Legion even grew in size throughout the heresy, and we have some confirmed action reports of terminator assaults by them.

As for how Alpharius was defeated, it wasn't really his fault he was manlety. No matter how much or how little planning he had, he was still one of the least physically gifted Primarchs, and I have a theory:

Alpharius and Omegon exist because originally they were a single HUEG Primarch, possibly T7 or bigger.

Remember Archamus notes the figure whom was eventually revealed was the real ALpharius to move in a somewhat restricted way, "as if he was more machine than man".

This is because he was indeed more machine than man.

You can sort of make all "lie accounts" fit together when you consider the warp portal BISECTED Alpharius and dropped him injured in a technologically advanced planet, which healed him through Primarch-tier prosthetics.

Meanwhile, the bloddy heap that remained behind was repaired by the Emperor into Omegon.

As such Alpharius (the first) was the last Primarch to be found, while Omegon (the last) never ever left to begin with.

And the Alpha Legion itself further confirms this. They are noted to have many abnormally large marines, several of them in the 7.5 feet range, conveniently about the same height than their Primarchs. And this is said to happen naturally. Why else would they grow so large if not because their geneseed is that of HUGE marines, with a Formerly Huge-but-bisected Primarch?

>>51150002
All warfare is deception. They're the best at it, I could see it.

Didn't they conquer a star system without firing a single shot in the Great Crusade?

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>>51159948
Yup.
They scared many worlds into Dark Compliance through panic and sabotage.
And the thing is, they didn't even use marines, it was some serfs.
And then there's sniper Exodus, said to rival a Vindicare's skill, having brought a dozen worlds into Compliance using a single shot (by assassinating planetary governors mid speech), being "identified" in several war zones, sometimes contemporaneously.

I say "Exodus" is nothing but a designated conditioned state implanted in marines with great shooting skills.

Like how Alpharius realized he's himself when he puts the spear together, so marines become Exodus when they piece together the Instrument rifle.