/hhg/ - Horus Heresy General MkXII

>>51115377
First for Alpha Legion

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XIITH FOR THE XIITH!
RRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRGH.

So what's the actual point of a Spartan deathstar? I'm looking to get into Heresy with a Mechanicum army using Myrmidons, aircraft and tonks, , plus light robots, and as far as I've seen everyone sticks a 400pt+ Primarch with a 300pt termie squad in a 350pt Spartan. How can that possibly kill it's points? Seems like it would get torched and then kited by anyone competent.

So far my plan for a counter to that is Scoria and some Vorax outflanking, and that's about half the cost and still really dangerous.

>>51115552
>Scoria
Youve already won. Scoria is a fraction of what he should cost and of what a spartan deathstar will be and will still win. And he'll of course have some robutt buddies.

Really spartanstars are overrated. Medusas, grav anything, and simply shooting it in the sides are easy to do. Then it's stuck out in the open and laid to waste. The options are so wide that even if you dont face a spartan youll still have a good list.

>>51115552
Flare shields greatly reduce the number of weapons that can threaten a Spartan, and 300+ points is worth it because footslogging is slow and leaves you vulnerable to the weapons that flare shields work against.

>>51115552
>man, I really want to take a cool unit of [legion specific] terminators
>and I also want to take a primarch, because I think [my primarch] rocks. Now, he'll need a transport because plasma guns are a thing.
>hmm, land raiders only seat 10, and [legion specific] terminators have a minimum unit size of 5 so they fill it up, can't add any characters to that
>seems a bit silly to buy a transport just for the primarch alone and then have the terminators in another land raider
>I know! A spartan! That allows me to fit all this cool stuff in a single assault vehicle!
...is pretty much how I imagine it normally goes. Stage 2 can also be replaced with
>man, I need this praetor for the rite of war, but it seems silly not to get him into close combat with his stats, so he needs a transport...
in some cases.

>>51116249
So annoying that they don't just give Land Raiders a transport capacity of 12. I see more Spartans than Land Raiders and that's dumb.

>>51116295
yeah but then basic land raiders would actually see play and we can't have that

>>51116295
Thats how it is when logistics isn't an issue. Every player can have a primarch and the best of what a legion has to offer at one time.

Would be cool to have a 'grunt' format. No named characters, no model with master of the legion, mayeb even no legion specifics(or a point%limit on them because I mean Mor Deythan or Head Hunters for example can show up anywhere for any reason).

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what army does girl plays in 30k ? in AoS its a majority of Dwarfs and sylvaneth, in 40k its tyranid, in 30k its ?

Has anyone gotten good use out of heavy support lascannons? A 10 man squad looks great on paper, esspecially in a bunker with a vox to counter anyone trying to get into melee which is what i have plannee. But I haven't played anyone who used them.

Thoughts?

>>51116396

Girls don't play 30k anon.

>>51116396
>what army does girl plays in 30k ? in AoS its a majority of Dwarfs and sylvaneth, in 40k its tyranid, in 30k its ?
I really wonder how much truth is in that and if it's not 100% anecdotal.

>>51116359
>no model with master of the legion
Alternatively, just make it so you can't take a praetor.

Rites of war being unlocked by a Delegatus would be a cool way to get some variety in that kind of format.

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I'm reading Betrayer, and really enjoying it, but while i was reading it a really random doubt came to my mind.

What are the Iron Warriors doing at the same time of the Shadow Crusade is taking place?
They are one of my favourite legions.

>>51115552
It just fits its role as a transport very well, with the added bonus of shooting shit. It does what landraiders do plus more.

>>51116417
I had luck with infiltrated ones being RG. Decap strike to go first, Siege Breaker for TH, infiltrate for sweet side armor. But beyond that theyre really expensive.

>>51116431
>Delegatus
Defeats the entire purpose of the grunt format. He's given full authority to take and use whatever he needs to get his task done. Logistics are out the window there too.

The point is to emulate the war from a wider perspective. The dudes that fight off-screen when the normal games played by players have primarchs and named people.

>>51116424
Everyone does seems to have the same anecdote, though.

>>51116396
Emperor's chldren I guess.

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>>51116396
If the theory that the appeal of nids and slyvaneth is all the tentacles is true, then probably mechanicum.

Looking at the blackshields reaver Lord I think I'm in love. Gonna try them out this Saturday and wanted to get some opinions on load out. He looks like he'll easily get to a land raider in price. Any blackshield players in here?

>>51116496
>He's given full authority to take and use whatever he needs to get his task done
Only if using chosen duty. Otherwise he's a regular low-ranking officer that lets you use rites, which absolutely saw use in the wider theater of the heresy.

>>51116448

Essentially everything else that happens post Isstvan, since Calth happened shortly after.

So the battle of Phall, Paramar, getting mind controlled by Cassian Dracos, defending the middle of no where,etc

>>51116417
Prepared to get focused fired. Ariltery will fuck then up, even in terrain so say goodbye to all those points.

>>51116295
Proteus should have TC 12 in exchange for losing the assault ramp.

>>51116396
Iron Warriors.

>>51116448
Perturabo and the bulk of the legion went to Phall after Isstvan to intercept the Imperial Fists retribution fleet, followed Fulgrim on his daemonhood chase, and then went to Tallarn afterward. Tallarn was going to be a Pyrrhic victory but Horus ordered them to get moving before they got their hands on the Black Oculus.

Small parts of the legion were spread out through... dunno, the galactic north I think?

>>51116948
I know a guy who put them on a void shield generator. That works really well, actually - better than a bunker.

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Which legion can pull off a Winged Hussar theme? The Scars?

>>51116711
No, to even become a Delegatus you are given a specific task. The Delegatus is a temporary position that exists on a as-needed basis. The Chosen Duty RoW is an optional way to represent this unique to him. Using another RoW is just another way to execute his task.

He still gets the keys to everything is it's in the name of what he needs to do.

>>51116359
>No vets or terminators, seekers, or legion special units as troops
>No praetors
>No special characters
>No lords of war

Limiting other armies would be a lot tougher though. I guess some options are
>No Lord Marshal for Solar Auxilia
>No Archmagos for Mechanicum
>No Planetary overlord for Imperial Militia
>Can only take one vehicle with more than 4 hull points outside of transports

Would probably lead to overall more interesting armies without superheavies, primarchs, and HQ beatstick masturbation.

>>51116396
In the few examples i've seen; AdMech or Blood Angels.

>>51117199
Scars, Dark Angels, and Emperor's Children can all do it fairly well. Unfortunately you can't take power lances as power weapons outside of specific units so you will be stuck with basic power weapons as well as legion special weapons like Phoenix Spears and Power Glaives.

>>51117150

Iron Warriors were fucking everywhere. If there was a shitty war that needed to be won, a keep to be garrisoned, the IV was there...

>check FW out of boredom
>number of RT rulebooks in play decreased from 5 to 2
What happened?

>>51117246
I was thinking more:
>No Praetors or Delegatus.
>Support Officer is ignored for all but the Moritat.
>(Maybe)25% of your points may be spent on Veteran Tacticals, Legion Terminators, and/or Legion Specific Units
>No Lords of War

The other armies would need tweaking catered to them.

Would definitely give games a larger variety.

>>51116417
I use two sets of 5, both in rhinos to get good ground and to use as a shield of necessary. Give one a siege breaker for it's buffs and to coordinate barrages. Last game I popped a spartan after one round of shooting and can't tell you how many drop pods they've intercepted. Worth the points if you can keep them safe

I like the idea of dropping storm shield termies in when they're getting to close for comfort to the actual fighting.

>>51117284
Thanks, Anon.

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Painting up some Terminators now.

>>51117345
Why would you remove delegatus? Removing that, praetor, and primarchs removes rites of war meaning that you remove a huge part of the uniqueness of the various legions.

>>51117342
Three were won?

>>51117479
While I can't remember White Scars' or Dark Angels' rules off the top of my head EC have a couple good things going for them.
>They rely on the charge ore than probably any other army (+1 initiative on the charge and Phoenix spears are two handed power swords unless you get the charge)
Winged hussars are all about that cavalry charge
>Maru Skara lets you outflank three units and more importantly decide what turn you want them to outflank on
Useful if you know what you are facing as you can set up plans that involve precise timing
>Any sergeant can take a Phoenix Spear unlike say legatine axes which are reserved for independent characters
Lances are a pretty important part of the winged hussars

On the other hand Ravenwing Knights sold by Games Workshop proper have wings akin to hussar wings on the back of their bikes already. If you want to use Dark Angels because of that or want to use them in making your own EC, WS, or other army is up to you but they exist and can work well to get the right aesthetic.

>>51117480

Why does one look bigger than the other? Is that the difference between the resins and plastics?

>>51117481
see >>51116496 and >>51117214
Delegatus is not a grunt format material.

>>51117628
Plus everyone would take him, the point here is variety of unsung line grunts fighting at a different front off-screen from the heroes.

>>51116424
Oh course it's anecdotal. All info given on this fucking site is anecdotal. It's not like anyone on an fucking anonymous board feels the need to justify anything ever.>>51116424

>>51116424

Tyranids being the girl army isn't an anecdote it's a fucking scientifically verifiable fact. I guaran-fucking-tee you you could go paint up a colorful Tyranid army and instantly have all the women in your life walk by and go "that's cute".

>>51117480
How much money do you spend on Nuln oil anon.

>>51117607
Some of the bases are taller than others, looking at them.

>>51117762
>tfw i haven't even painted any vehicles yet.
>ooshtbhfam

>>51117002

Decimation.

>>51117150

Did any of the IVth fight in the Rangdan Xenocides?

>>51117974
There's 3 of those and the DAs and DGs did the 3rd one. I think.

>>51116701
I do like the cute little robits.

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>>51118206
Are ya a grill?

>>51117345
>Support Officer is ignored for all but the Moritat.
Welcome back to every single army takes a Primus Medicae or a Master of Signals as HQ. Support Officer exists for a very good reason. Even with Support Officer people take Masters of Signal in a lot of lists, which just goes to show how good they are that people are willing to bloat the HQ points load of a list just to get their support abilities in an army.

You can make an argument that you should be able to take libbies as compulsory HQs, but I'd disagree on two grounds. First, it's not really fluffy for anyone but TS and kind-of sort-of WB to have loads of psykers after Nikea, and second, we already have "libby as the default SM warlord" in 40k armies. I like that 30k sidelines psykers a bit, 7th edition psychic rules especially can really take over the game quickly if you get too many charges on the table.

>>51117345
>Would definitely give games a larger variety.
I can see the appeal of gruntifying 30k, but c'mon, variety? You're pushing for the opposite.

>>51116485

Its exactly what a Land Raider should be, even better than what a Land Raider was in its prime back in 3rd or 4th edition.

>>51118468

Plus theres no real reason for psyker HQs with all the armies as balanced as they are, for the most part. You introduce psyker shenanigans when you smell Eldar.

>>51118468
>Welcome back to every single army takes a Primus Medicae or a Master of Signals as HQ
Arguable either way. I saw a PM HQ once and it was ehhh at best. I I see the value in the MoS, but take away praetor and bloat from legion specifics and its really easy to get two generic HQs even with support officer still on.

>second paragraph
All subjective and contextual

>>51118527
Not necessarily true. I mean variety in different units. Instead of seeing every salamander list with a praetor with TH 2+/3++ with firedrakes in a spartan you might actually see flamer support squads, dreads, etc. Some legions are so pigeon holed into popular builds that I cant imagine them in typical line scenarios. Take away the logistically unlikely scenario that every primarch and his elite can be anywhere in the galaxy due to the arcade nature of this game and it shifts things dramatically.

>>51117588
The Primary advantages that the Ravenwing Protocol brings to the idea is Rad Grenades on all the characters, the ability to drive off the battlefield into reserves and then outflank back on, and Molecular Acid shells/Stasis grenades.

The downsides are the lack of special units, poor LA advantage and the most crippling of all the LA disadvantages.

HOW MANY OF YOU BITCH NIGGAS PLAY ON 32MM LIKE LITTLE FAGGOT GIRLS BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT CAME IN YOUR BABBY'S PLASTIC BOX SET

25MM MASTERRACE REPORT IN

BLAST TEMPLATE DODGAN

HIGHER BASE TO BASE COUNTAN

HAMMER OF WRATHAN

JUMP PACK TOPPLAN

WHOLE SQUAD BEHIND THE RHINO COWERAN

25MM MASTERRACE

>>51118864
>25MM

Fucking sucks shit, they barely fit on the base.

Cool b8 bro.

>>51118717
I think different mission types that emphasize scoring/progressive scoring would be a better way to get grunt lists in use. Most of the missions in 30k boil down to a combination of kill points and having more shit left on the board, preferably in the right places, at the end of the game than the opponent (i.e., kill points with a twist). There's only one progressive scoring mission (in the main mission list), and it's still got a lot of points in kill-y secondaries.

Honestly, I'd be curious to see how the standard ITC tournament missions would play with 30k armies. They tend to favor MSU scoring armies over deathstar kill point armies, although they made some tweaks this season to even that out a bit.

>>51118864
>TOES FALLAN OFF THE BASEAN
Fuck that shit, the newer bases are so much better. Modeling for advantage is cancer, and by extension so are you. Get the fuck out.

>>51118864
>half my army is on 25s still because 32 doesn't fit in the foam trays I own
STOP REMINDING ME

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>>51118864

>he still fields 25mm space marines

>>51117628
So fluff it as a random captain or some shit. The point is to get rid of generic death stars and pride of the legion lists. By removing rites of war you are in effect making every list much more similar because they have the same limitations now. One can't access new units as troops or build a list around outflanking or deepstriking. It is just dudes on a table but now no death stars.

The fluff doesn't matter as much as in game effects. A malcador is less advanced than a leman russ, but if you wanted to prevent Imperial Militia and Solar Auxilia from super heavy spamming you would limit them while not limiting leman russ tanks since the latter would devalue all armoured lists.

>>51117724
A delegatus isn't a linchpin unit though. He isn't 4 squads of veterans or a primarch with his bodyguards or a 7 attack praetor with an honour guard. He's a crappy officer who gives you rite of war.

>>51118864
Fuck yeah, bitches
Space Marines were meant for 25mm, every other race should get 20mm instead of making the real master faction move

>>51118927
>TOES FALLAN OFF THE BASEAN
>not making an army of 100% running legs

Must be some kind of fort-building scum.

>>51118864
Adeptus Astartes are the 25mm faction. We're Legiones Astartes here, 40kid.

>>51119046
>Always running
So I assume you are a Raven Guard running away from the enemy.
>Horus maybe if my guys run away from the fort fast enough while you attack head on we can capture it.

HOW MANY OF YOU BITCH NIGGAS STILL PLAY ON 25MM LIKE LITTLE FAGGOT GIRLS BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT CAME IN YOUR GRANDPA'S OLD MAN FW SETS

32MM MASTERRACE REPORT IN

BLAST HIT REDUCAN

HIGHER TERRITORY COVERAN

JUMP PACK STABLAN

SMALL FOOTPRINTS ARE FOR FAGGOTSAN

32MM MASTERRACE

>>51119073

30k didn't go 32mm until like half a year after book 2

>>51118927
>using the bases you were supplied with
>modelling for advantage

Too bad GW straight up said both 25mm and 32mm are legal because they were too lazy to force everyone to move to 32mm.

Sure coulda used that attitude back in WHFB when they changed Beastman Gor sizes THREE TIMES.

Anyone got that rogal dorn's giant chainblade reaction image?

>>51119221
>Sure coulda used that attitude back in WHFB when they changed Beastman Gor sizes THREE TIMES.
To be fair base size was far more important in WHFB than it is in 40k.

>>51119304
nevermind, found it

>>51118864
32mm bases look better on marines, unless talking about RT/2e marines

t. oldfag

Sanguinus has Sanguinary Guard, Vulcan has Fire Drakes, Angron has Red Butchers

What are Dorns personal bodyguards?

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>>51119420
Huscarls, this guy is their leader.

>>51119447
What kind of armor kind anon?

I can't find it.

>>51119519
Probably Indomitus because thats what the Fists preferred.

>>51115377
So what color are Iron Hands actually supposed to be? I've seen the classic black, FW's oily scheme, dark silver, and so on.

Which is the official/which one, in your opinion, looks best?

>>51119519
>>51119561

In Praetorian of Dorn, they're portrayed wearing both Indomitus Terminator armour and regular power armour. The consistent element between them is a black cloak.

Why are there two different super heavies called the Fellblade? I saw a cheap fellblade on ebay, just a bunch of bits really so not easily identifiable, it was labeled Blood angles Fellblade so I figure I can scrape off any Legion markings

But lo and behold the Blood angels Fellblade is a specific type of 40k super heavy that looks like a Baneblade with more assault cannons. I know it's hard to come up with enough grimdark names but why repeat it on a vehicle in the same class?

>>51119581
>a black cloak

GREEN STUFF MAGIC AWAY.

Fuck I wanted to model cool bodyguards.

>>51119587
>it's a namefag is a retard episode
the fellblade you're talking about is a homebrew ruleset for a conversion made by BolShit

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Any 3rd party stores that could sell bits that match these guys' helmets? Also what faction is better suited for them? Militia?

>>51119664
>implying I care enough to pay attention to what people on BoLS do

well homebrew or not someone's trying to sell one.

>>51119420
>What are Dorns personal bodyguards?
Walls.

>>51119680
Why do you want your guys to look like an earless Mickey Mouse?

>>51119359

The only bases Terminators should be on is 25mm prove me wrong.

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>>51119793
I just want to know if there are mask bits like these.

>>51119700
>people selling shit with the wrong words on eBay is somehow the fault of anyone else but the seller

>>51119823
I get that you're trying ever so hard to be mad anon, but I don't really see the point. I found my answer about why it's not named properly and that's fine.

Have a good night.

>>51119813
And I seriously want to know why you want your army to look like disfigured Disney mascots.

Solar Auxilia list. If you were playing a clone of yourself, would it beat your army /hhg/?

HQ - Lord Marshall - 135
Artificier Armor
Displacer Matrix
Digital Lasers
Paragon Blade

Elites - Auxilia Medicae Detachment - 60

Elites - Household Retinue - 165
Power Axes

Elites - Household Retinue - 165
Power Axes

Troops - Veletaris - 115
DT - Dracosan - 165
Demolisher Cannon

Troops - Lasrifle Section - 115
Troop Master

Aegis Defence Line - 90
Quad Gun

Heavy Support - Malcador Infernus - 285
Chem Munitions

Fast Attack - Lightning Fighter - 185
4x Kraken Penetrators

LoW - Stormlord - 515
Armoured Ceramite

2000/2000

I'm thinking I'll pick infiltrate WL trait for the Veletarii in the Demolisher, or maybe Eternal Warrior on the Lord Marshall.

Lord Marshall and axemen go in the Stormlord

Basically big scary things going up the field while the gunline, fighter and Dracosan harass.

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>>51119941
Who's to say I do? I just want to know, Anon. I remember that they exist and I wonder if there were mini bits for them. And they are not that bad when you remember that the Indomitus helmets(not bashing but they are a little goofy) and the Emperor's Children exist. Are you saying these masks are worse than Fulgrim's ugly mug?

>>51119977
>Heavy Support - Malcador Infernus - 285
>Chem Munitions
I guess you don't like having friends? You may as well get the Tank Commander for PE so that gun that wounds on 2, ignores armour, ignores cover, uses a hellstorm template, and then lobs said template another 18" can reroll to wound JUST TO BE SURE.

Seriously, though, I know it has counters but no one wants to play against that thing. It's fucking horrifying. I'd only ever dream of bringing one to a big tournament like the LVO, and that's a big model to buy for such limited use.

>>51119907
Fuck you taking the high ground

>implying I'll have a good night

Take your shit back to the eBay forums

>>51119573
A silvery black/gray.

>>51119221
I for one am glad we aren't forced to switch everything to 32mm. To start with I refuse to waste money on bases for all the dudes I own already, and second I'm not ruining the hundreds of bases I spend so much time on just because some dick at GW thought 32mm was a good idea.

If you like it more power to you, but I think the new base size looks like shit.

>>51120614

It does look like shit. Just don't let the 32babbies hear you say that. Only reason it would ever look good is if you use pleb tier legs either way. Squatters that hang over the 25mm and squatters that fill up the 32mm. Any good pair of legs is too narrow for 32mm and fit fine on 25mm.

>>51120638
The whole 'toe over edge' argument is void anyway, all the new 40k SM kits have the legs even wider to make sure the toes hang over the edge of those new 32mm bases.

>In the grim darkness of the far future, all marines come with gaint bases and are doing splits to make sure they still hang their feet over the edges

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>>51120710
>all the new 40k SM kits have the legs even wider to make sure the toes hang over the edge of those new 32mm bases.

Holy shit how is GW not the ultimate troll? Every time we get mad at them it's just them rusing us.

>>51120710
>"Let's put these new Shield of Baal Blood Angels on larger bases so their feet fit on the base!"
>makes wider legs

New Necron Warriors are going to be doing splits.

>>51120140
I mean, it's armor 13 and I don't have AC. 10 man melta squad in a rhino = delet.

>>51121072
But that is why they take a lord marshal or something so they can choose a SA warlord trait rather than roll, and take the one that gives their whole army Shrouded for the first game turn. That way the Infernus will be able to shoot at least once. This usually means that the units that aren't vehicles themselves that can threaten the Infernus feel the burn. And SA also have quad mortars so popping a rhino is not an issue.

>>51121281
Oh yeah, forgot about that trait too. Would probably be more useful.

Not taking any quad mortars. Simply not enough points to hold so much cheddar.

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>>51119420
This is his personally body guard

>>51119420
Huscarls. They wore Indominus pattern termy armor and were led by Archamus, who was a hoss.

Vulkan had the Pyre Guard. They were all terran and one of them represented each of Nocturne's seven main cities. Firedrakes were just the elites.

Similarly, Red Butchers weren't Angron's bodyguards. They were just World Eaters gone so far into tard rage that even the other fucking World Eaters said "We should probably chain those guys up."

Angron's bodyguards were called the Devourers. The only way to rise into their ranks was apparently to kill one of them in a duel, which brings up interesting logistical problems. Also Angron either ignored them or treated them with open scorn, depending on how tarded-out he was at the moment. So nobody outside their original number really WANTED to be a Devourer.

>>51122092
>it's not pure gold
shit aetos dios desu

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>>51122262
How would one run Devourer.
Just run Terminators?

>>51122903
>How would one run Devourer.
One wouldn't. Devourers can't run. It's why Angron treats them with such disdain. Not only does he not need a bodyguard, they can't even keep up with him!

Also, don't they get left guarding his flagship all the time?

>>51122092

>need to spend $600+ to field Dorn's special unit

suffering

>>51122968
>$600

You mean 600 pounds. Unless recasters also sell it for that much, in which case lol at all the "hurrr why is resin so expensive" poorfags

>>51122995

$600 on eBay for the real thing, I suppose. Recasters charge $150-200, but I don't use recasters .

>>51123007

For some reason I thought you guys were talking about the Stormbird. That thing costs EVEN MORE than a Thawk it's insane.

>>51122948
This. Devourers only numbered 8 so your unit is capped at that many men and they weren't even well regarded as fighters within their legion so WS 4 isn't even that much of a stretch. So if you want to use them I guess a unit of 5-8 terminators probably cataphractii.

Of course I don't know why you would want to field them it is like purposely choosing the worst members of the legion that everyone would shit on.

>>51123027

Being a luxury version Thawk probably has something to do with it.

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>>51122948

Let me rephrase that.

How would someone play Devourers in The Horus Heresy® tabletop miniature wargame made by Forge World.

Also why didn't they switch to Tartaros or Artificer Armour when it became a problem that they couldn't keep up with Angron.

>>51119420
Corax had the Shadow Wardens

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Just finished paint stripping
Along with one of the first models I ever painted showing my old color scheme.
Champion head and weapon are in the mail. Along with his shoulder pads.
Bust you can see my old design there and how that black is glommed on. With what I know now, looking at these guys hurts.

>>51123165

What worked for you? And don't tell me its that magic shit thats only sold in the UK.

>>51123126
Because no one can keep up with Angron, while they're all knee-deep in enemies and hacking away Angron is 10km ahead of the frontline surrounded by enemies and balls deep in corpses.

>>51123190
Super clean, I live in Wisconsin and bought a jug of the stuff for 8 bucks at a hardware store.

>>51123299
I've used that too. Certainly works better than Simple Green, and it didn't hurt my plastic or resin models at all.

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>>51117762
>>51117797
Have faith, Iron Warrior.

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>>51117214
>The Delegatus is a temporary position that exists on a as-needed basis
This.
>One of the original Sons of Horus back when they were still Luna Wolves
>Ordered by the Warmaster himself on a special mission
>Has rules for Centurion rather than Delegatus
FW, you were the chosen one.

>>51118206
L O N D O N

O

N

D

O

N

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>>51119739
kek

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>>51121072
>I don't have AC
Then get some
>>51120140
>You may as well get the Tank Commander for PE so that gun that wounds on 2, ignores armour, ignores cover, uses a hellstorm template, and then lobs said template another 18" can reroll to wound JUST TO BE SURE.
Don't forget Tank Commanders can overwatch :^)

>>51122948
>Also, don't they get left guarding his flagship all the time?
Those were the Triarii. They were supposed to be there. In a rare moment of non-stupidity the World Eaters actually had an elite company of boarding specialists permanently assigned to guard their flagship.
>>51123126
>How would someone play Devourers in The Horus Heresy® tabletop miniature wargame made by Forge World.
An eight man terminator squad huffing and puffing to keep up with Angron and getting all chuffed when their compatriots make fun of them. That's it. That's all the devourers were. Even on the Night of the Wolf, the one fucking time they were actually needed, they weren't where they should have been.
>>51123126
>Also why didn't they switch to Tartaros or Artificer Armour when it became a problem that they couldn't keep up with Angron.
Because nobody could keep up with Angron. Not even Kharn. It was a moot point. They wore Terminator armor because that was the standard among the legions for the Primarch's bodyguard, beyond that they were a joke. The only two times they come up in Betrayer are Angron telling them to get out of the room so he can talk to Lorgar alone, and the story that once upon a time Kharn beat one in a duel and laughed in their commander's face when he asked if Kharn wanted to join up.
>How would someone play Devourers in The Horus Heresy® tabletop miniature wargame made by Forge World.
Build a sweet looking unit of 8, expect nothing from them, and then heap scorn upon them even if they succeed. That is literally canon.

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>>51123860
>Build a sweet looking unit of 8, expect nothing from them, and then heap scorn upon them even if they succeed. That is literally canon.

Are 5 man plasma or melta supports just going to get smushed and waste 215 points? Do I need to spunk 360 points on them for it to be worth it, or is that an even more insane points sink?

Been staring at this Battlescribe for too long

>>51123992
Forgot to add, make sure Angron NEVER joins the unit during a game. Because he never did.

Maybe after a couple games use some subtle wash-work to put bags under their eyes? Show that soul-crushing weight from being so arrogant you assign YOURSELF to guard a demigod, and by so doing, ensure he hates the eight of you more than all of your 100,000 brothers. Maybe magnetize the torsos so you can slouch them a bit after a while?

I am enjoying this a bit too much.

>>51124039
No, he starts with them, but always leaves turn 1.

>>51123154
>>51123860
Thoughts on using a dark fury kit combined with some command bits and a standard bearer to emulate these guys with a command squad?

I know a lot of people say roll corax solo, but it seems like a fun idea and we know from ravenlord that they didn't use terminator plate like other legions.

>>51124113
Could be pretty cool. Dark Fury jump packs, definitely. But a more versatile loadout to better react?

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>>51118988
>A malcador is less advanced than a leman russ
In M31, the Malcador had an advanced engine that made it quick (Fast, in the rules). In M41 they've lost that tech so they stuffed a normal engine in it and it's now a slug.

>>51124014
Drop Pod (if you're taking the right RoW) or Dreadclaw. Rhino if you're careful.

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>>51124113
>Thoughts on using a dark fury kit combined with some command bits and a standard bearer to emulate these guys with a command squad?
Just use the Dark Furies with a Chaplian if you want packs. Upgrading to Talons is very expensive for some silly reason. Especially compared to scythes and phoenix spears. But Dark Furies get them for free.

>>51124113
>they didn't use terminator plate like other legions.
pic related, RG uses both Tartaros and Cataphractii,

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>>51124142
I'd certainly give at least one paired talons, what loadout would you suggest accounting for the banner effects, base artificer, and corax's loadout?

my first impulse is the keep every dude but the one with curved claws and use his torso for the bannerman, but there might be other options worth taking. rending LCs is hard to compete with though.

>>51124188
Meant the bodyguard didn't use them, ravenlord has a passage about the DSM that shows them trying to reach him with JPs after he left them in the dust to punt Lorgar.

the reason for the command squad is free artificer, and while giving them claws is expensive that ends up not being too bad on their statline.

Night Lords Terminators: Cataphractii or Tartaros?

>>51124278
yes.

>>51124278
Tartaros when transported in an assault vehicle.
Cataphractii when DS'ing with Teleport Transponder.

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How mad would you be if I left off the claws from the fists because I hate the looks and declare before the game that the double fists are LCs?

>>51124203

Do whatever you want, because as soon as you finish building and painting them Forge World will come out with the official version that makes your conversions look dumb.

Thanks Forge World.

>>51124340
I wouldn't mind.
But ... 4 pairs of LCs and a Power Sword on your unit .. no anti-armour at all, seriously ?

>>51122092
Is that Dorn vision of an X-wing ? I like it.

>>51124340

Double PF on anything is rare enough that it should cause you to do a double take, so it should be pretty easy to remember all double fist guys are just regular dual LC guys.

>>51124340
If all's clear, yes. MkIV/Tartaros claws look awful compared to MkII/Cataphractii.

>>51124261
A 5 man command squad with packs and a single talon is 305. You get fearless and artificer armor but lose +1I on the charge, dualwielding bonus, and 5+ cover from deepstriking at 175 points. Add in a Chaplain for Zealot, 2+/5++, and a pack for 100 and youre at 275 with more attacks and initiative 5 on the charge. The Dark Fury Sarge has stock 2+ as well. You'll be swinging before most other units with more attacks.

If youre rolling with Corax then you definitely want a chaplain for hatred because the banner is useless since corax is fearless. There is no good loadout for pack equipped command squad in this scenario that isnt better and vastly cheaper if you use Dark Furies and a Chaplain. And you can go above 10 bodies, because if you attach corax you bet youll attract weapons fire and lose dudes before you reach your target. Especially since Corax doesnt have infiltrate. Attaching him to a squad makes them both worse. You want to infiltrate the pack squad up close, corax at the edge of deployment behind them, and run him up behind them, then combine the squad before you charge in.

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More or less finished with my first and test Batman. There's a few things I need to work on moving forward, but otherwise I'm pretty pleased.

>>51124359
Works for me and is supposed to eliminate infantry and not tanks, that's what my LasHavocs and own tanks are for.

>>51124424
How much would you charge to paint my Evil Batman army?

>>51124424
Might I ask what colours you used? Specifically for the first coat of blue?

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>>51124395

What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I'll have you know I graduated top of my company in the XVII legion.

>>51124488
I love that photoset because they got some of the claws backwards

>>51124424
>putting the model on 4 feet of concrete

MODELLING FOR ADVANTAGE! MODELLING FOR ADVANTAGE!

>>51124497
I never did understand the point of putting thick cork on top of bases. If you want it textured then buy thin cork or texture paints.

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>>51124448

I'll take that as a compliment, but honestly, I have no idea. I haven't even done my army yet. Never done commissions.

>>51124464

The base blue is Kantor with Nuln on the edges. The highlights are a bit of Alaitoc, Hoeth, and Reaper Glacier. The lightning is glacier and white scar. Somewhere on the model, probably an edge, is reaper Ocean Blue.

The red is Reaper Dragon red. The lenses are based Dragon, then Khorne, then wazdakka, white dot and washed Reikland Fleshshade

The shoulders are just Balthasar Gold, then a mix of that and runefang on the corners.

>>51124497
More of a disadvantage because of the height.

>>51124529

This was my first time, and it was the thinnest cork I could find, which honestly isn't that thick. The angle makes it look worse.

What pattern of armour does Tyberos wear? It almost looks like a mix of Indominus and Tartaros.
I ask because I'm looking for a good looking body for a terminator praetor.

>>51124497
True line of sight is the most shit system ever. If people want to make their models look cool they either get fucked over by it or you get autists banning their stuff because it would be 'modelling for advantage'

>>51124149
>In M31, the Malcador had an advanced engine that made it quick (Fast, in the rules).
Leman Russes could be fast too, while still having AV 14 on the front. However my point is that by the Horus Heresy they were generally considered second line tanks compared to baneblades and leman russes.

>>51124545
Thank you very much for the paint rundown.

>>51124497
>MODELLING FOR ADVANTAGE
So, Cataphractii and Tartaros armour?

http://www.blacklibrary.com/new-titles/new-qu-re/extinction-ebook.html

>It's another fucking ADB wanks off Abbadon while shoehorning in muh Night Lords everywhere episode

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>>51124546
Forgot mah pic.

>>51124565

No problem. I can't full credit, though. St Duncan guided me.

https://youtu.be/YumAwDRAUaw

>>51124551
>>51124545
>not having your entire legion surfing on giant jagged scenic cliff bases

How else was I going to make my White Scars foot infantry riding something?

>>51124546

It's artificer Indomitus with the prototype helm they eventually used to design Mk V. Asterion Moloch from the Minotaurs has artificer Tartaros.

>>51124579
That's just Artificer-Forged Indominus. I don't see any Cataphractii or Tartaros in it.

>>51124588
Damn. Thanks for the answer.

>>51124597
I guess the shoulders threw me off.

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>>51124611

You could try to get the limited edition Praetor Tribune's body. Nicest looking Tartaros they've made so far. The sergeant from Burning of Prospero also has good Tartaros.

>>51124645
I like that model, but he's a bit too... loyalist. I play Night Lords.

I may take the Prospero sergeant and slap on Tyberos's arms. Maybe with magnets.

>>51124340
The blue makes it easy for me to remember that they're LCs.

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>>51118988
>>51124149
>>51124552
the malcador is fucking great in 30k though
it can take a demolisher for 30 points
it can take siege armor for 10 (av 14 but lose fast which doesn't matter other than moving flat out because super heavy)
it can take armored ceramite , nothing special but an autoinclude none the less
with a tank commander it can gain one of the tank commander special rules as well as getting over watch and bs4
now here is the real kicker :

it can take a flare shield

so at how much points does this overwatch firing 6hp av 14 flare shielded super heavy with a battle cannon, 2 autocannons and a demolisher cannon clock in ?
375 points
that's 5 points more than the cost of a barebones battle tank and a demolisher combined putting the armored ceramite on them puts sets you back 40 points so yeah
the special rules of either squads don't matter neither cause the tank commander can pick scout (and gain outflank that way) and it has bs4 by default

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Holy shit.

I think I found how I'm painting my MkIII vet helmets. Pic related

>>51124681
That's the exact idea behind it. I'm glad it's easy to come to that conclusion.

>>51124576
That story's a few years old, you dumb nigger.

>>51124340

Not only would I find that fine, that picture is fucking amazing and really makes the concept look a lot better than just using regular Lightning Claws.

>>51124546
Looks like a typical Indomitus to me. His shoulder pads are a bit different, but that's it.

>>51124704
>the malcador is fucking great in 30k though
Yes, which is my point. If we are executing these nerfing rules we should focus on rules instead of fluff. Who cares if Delegatuses were important, they are required to get rites of war unless we want to allow praetors and/or primarchs. Likewise if we wanted to keep militia and auxilia from spamming super heavies Malcadors and their cousins should be limited in numbers even though according to the fluff Malcadors were second line battle tanks that any important commander could probably get a ton of without any real difficulty.

The overall point of the regular dudes lists should be to remove stuff like superheavy spam. My personal suggestion.
Marines
>Cannot take any model with the master of the legion special rule except a delegatus
>Cannot take any veterans, terminators, seekers, or legion special units as your mandatory troop choice
>Cannot take special characters
>Lists can include up to a single vehicle with more than 5 hull points outside of dedicated transports
>No Lord of War options
>Nerfed strength D rules
>Blackshield cannot take reaver lords

Focusing on Imperial Militia, Solar Auxilia, and Mechanicum (although the aforementioned rules still apply)
>Cannot take a Lord Marshal
>Cannot take a Force Commander with the Planetary Overlord rule
>Cannot take an archmagos prime, archmagos reductor, or archmagos dominus

In effect your high commanders are minor officers. A captain, a champion, the equivalent of a major, etc. while most of your basic troops are basic troops as opposed to elites or specialists. If you want to field an elite army you still can but your army won't be entirely made up of WS 5 marines unless you take chymeriae blackshields.

>>51124999

>or legion special units as your mandatory troop choice

Hampers a few legions where the main advantage of one or both of their RoWs is that it allows them to take specials as troops, but seems broadly sensible.

>>51124552
>Leman Russes could be fast too

Only some of them, only for SA, and only for one turn.

>by the Horus Heresy they were generally considered second line tanks compared to baneblades and leman russes.

And the Heresy saw them re-emerge into the front lines as the demand for battle tanks rose, and their large numbers made the ideal platforms for various other platforms.

The problems with the Malcador were not its technological level, it was more to do with resources. With the lines of the Great Crusade stretching, the need for more and more combat vehicles rose and thus smaller Russes became preferable, since you could probably build 2-3 Russes with the resources of a single Malcador. And for heavy support Baneblades offered more firepower.

>>51124999
i fail to see the issue with the lord marshal and Praetor other than the arbitrary high rank they have
it's perfectly possible for a lower ranking officer to posses the martiall and or tactical prowess they have

>>51124951
Helmet's different too. Could be a prototype, since the Mk V helmet was a spin-off of the Terminator program, or it could just be modified to look like Mk V.

Otherwise, true.

>>51124941
Thanks m8.

>>51125404
Only major difference is the grill. Gorgon terminators also have grills.

Could be just an alternative design. Hell, maybe they all have grills and some just have a piece covering it?

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>>51125446
Gorgons were wearing a unique spin-off of Indomitus, so not sure if they count.

It's either a variant or prototype, I'm thinking. The very first Terminator Librarian model, from the Rogue Trader era, had a similar helmet design, sans studs (pic related), so there's precedent for it. Not that it really matters, since you can handwave oddities like that as artificer shit.

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So, now that we have BaC and BaP, what's your excuse?

>>51125606
Excuse for what?

>>51125633
>"look at my mk i conversions"
>mk vii marines with cadian heads

>>51125647
People do that? I've never seen it unless I actively go searching for it, and even then it's just a handful of results. I'd think sigmarines with cadian heads would be all the rage?

>>51124715
I wanted to try that sort of skull-face motif on my NL test model, but wasn't sure if I'd be able to convincingly freehand it with shading and whatnot. Just doing a flat colour with, with highlights where the skull pattern juts up against an edge on the visor, actually looks kind of cool though.

>>51125672
Yeah, loads of half-assed Heresy conversions out there. That was just an example.

(I'm just drunkenly shit-stirring, to be honest.)

>>51124580
That's St. Duncan of the Many Layers to you.

>the Imperial fists have a rule called Blood and Honour

>>51125701
Don't really see it much, at least not fielded. Never seen thunder armour on the table in person or in pictures, just a handful of conversions online, much less a whole squad or an army of the things. Some lazy MKIV-MKVI derived from MKVII at most, with a smattering of CSM bits in the mix.

>>51124579
>>51124546
Mk V terminator armour.

Would /hhg/ play Epic 30K? Imagine fielding entire Titan Maniples alongside thousands of marines and Imperial Army auxilia. The stuff that dreams are made of.

You could replicate the entire Dropsite Massacre or whatever awesome battle you wanted.

>>51125973
Absolutely, for me massive armies were always the appeal of epic, not the titans (though they fit much better there). Epic 30k would be great, as you say it fits the scale that the legions fought on. I also feel certain armies, like artillery-heavy iron warriors for example, would work far better in that scale than in 40k.

It's funny, I don't want to buy the upcoming adeptus titanicus game because a battle between 5-10 titans a side doesn't interest me, but I want it to do well enough that FW consider expanding the game with infantry and tanks. Who am I kidding, if it does well they'll just release more knights & titans, won't they?

>>51126056

FW seem to be fucking obsessed with knights.

>>51126162
FW is obsessed with any vehicles that has legs. Just look at how many dreadnoughts and variants they make and keep on making whilst certain legion specific units or primarchs which had rules for years are too much effort for some reason.

>>51125973
In a heartbeat.

Muh Ordo Reductor

>>51126320

True. Many of these things seem incredibly niche. Maybe legion specifics just don't sell that well though, so they don't prioritise them. I'm more inclined to think that it's because they work on whatever they feel like, and they feel like doing walkers.

>>51126453
>>51126320
hasn't FW basically said that their sculptors and produce pipeline has been overwhelmed and crushed by the demand for HH stuff? and thats why BaC and BoP were made so that FW wouldn't have to make the basic parts of a HH army and could focus on the fringe super heavies for 1% thats been their main source of income for several years?

>>51126453
I think the picture from the first open day the Warlord titan was revealed showed rather clearly what FW members think of walkers.

The FW staffmember standing behind the warlord had nipples that were so erect they showed through his shirt.

Recon Company Rite of War.
Do i need 1 unit of recon marines or 3?

Discuss

So I've been asked to come up with a 2k Taghmata list for a big group game this weekend. The list will be used by a friend who doesn't play heresy but is joining us for the game. It'll be supported by 2k of Night Lords, 2k of Death Guard and 2k of Word Bearers which will include some superheavies. Playing against Blood Angels, Iron Hands, Raven Guard and Imperial Fists who will almost certainly be using primarchs.
This is what I have so far, it's using the models I have for mechanicum and a few we're borrowing from another guy.

2k Taghmata

+Scoria on Abeyant 315
+Magos Dominus 75

+2 Castellax (darkfire cannons, enhanced targeting array, infravisors) 290
+3 Thallax (photon thruster) 160
+3 Thallax (photon thruster) 160

+The Homonculex 175
+5 Vorax (biocorrosive ammo, frag grenades) 400

+Krios Venator 150
+Krios Venator 150
+Krios Tank 125

Scoria and the Vorax go together as anti-primarch deathstar, most other units are there for their firepower. We've got a lot of scoring units in the legion lists so I didn't bother with thralls.

>>51126509

I think that's a production issue more than anything, as they were probably having to cast
huge numbers of bolterboys. Equally, while it may cost a fair bit to set up the moulds for plastic models, once you've done that the cost to make them is pennies rather than pounds, so the margins are a shitload better. Resin is better for small runs of high-cost items (like knights and titans, I suppose).

>>51126525
RAW one, RAI three. But recon marines ain't half bad as troops, just take units of 5 with no upgrades and don't expect to much of them, it's only 300 points. Give them rhinos to make them even more annoying. Having meltabombs also ain't bad, but it does drastically increase their point cost.

>>51126525
Multiple people who've spoken to Bligh at open days report he says 3.

>>51126586
Cool! I've been meaning to use 3 but i just wanted to check!

What's the best way to kit out a unit of Terminators?

Fists do well on paper, and can fight vehicles/any infantry with relative ease, but at the same time i1 can be pretty fatal against a lot of stuff.

>>51127225
I would always include at least one chainfist in any unit of terminators. Power fists probably won't get it done against a dreadnought, or a land raider/spartan.

>>51127225
What >>51127403 said. A chainfist can do more damage to vehicles than several power fists.

>>51127460
personally a mix of claws and chainfists at a 3 to 1 ratio. but I play 99% xenos.

>>51119420
Mortarion has the Death Shroud.
Perturabo has the Iron Circle post Phall.

>>51123126
Terminator Command squad, probably.
They can accept challenges...which they will never get to do because Angron's Red Sands rule makes the whole point of a Chosen Warrior unit useless.

Does anyone have the picture quote from Ferrus Manus when he talks about the crusade and getting shit done without taking a break? It was in one of the first HH FW books.

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>>51123400
Severily underrated comment. Saved.

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>>51124715
Anon, MkIII looks cool no matter what.
Hell, I think in-universe some of the MkIII relic suits are issued to honour guard units BECAUSE of theur fearsome look.

You could even paint him crying and the enemy would be afraid.

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>>51127653
Yes, have quote.

B a s e d h e w a s

>>51127642
But he didn't ask how Phoenix termies are Fulgrim's bodyguard, anon.
:^)
Also, shouldn't they have access to lightning claws? Doesn't Julius Kaesoron didles Gabriel Santar with one?

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>>51127225
Whatever the proportion of Fists + Chainfists + LClaws you want to take, remember Volkite + Claw can do more damage than dual claws.

>>51127225
I prefer at least 2 chainfists no matter the size of the unit. Same or twice the amount of powerfists to fuck over 3 wound terminators. And a couple of dudes with power weapon to take the first hits.

Then add banestrike ammo to make marines cry for mercy when you rapid fire them :)

Is there really a big advantage to putting my praetor on a jetbike versus a normal bike?

Jetbike command squads just don't seem all that superior to bike command squads for how much more they cost

>>51127780
No. It was Santar who was using claw, Julius had phoenix spear.

>>51127762
Thank you, yes based despite everything.

>>51127933
Jetbikes can move over terrain and units between them and their target.

>>51127959

Is it a waste to put my praetor with a normal scimitar squad? Less power weapons than a command squad but tons cheaper

So if the Great Crusade conquered a million worlds in 200 years, it means they were taking about 14 worlds a day. Was this feasible?

>>51128021
Clearly, if they did it.

Captain Obvious, away!

>>51127990
It is a decent alternative, though you might have to pick your targets a little more carefull. I wouldn't charge it into the opponent's deathstar for example

>>51128021
Well there were 18 legions that were usually split up into mutliple fleets and also unnumbered fleets of Imperial armies. You do the math.

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Need advice on a 2500 point ultramarine list

HQ

legion Praetor-180
-thunder hammer
-digital lasers
-iron halo
-master crafted weapon
-rite of war logos lectora

Legion centurion-95
-consul: master of signals

Troops

3X legion tactical squad -585
-powerfist
-additional chainswords
-rhino apc

Elite

honored telemechrus- 255

6 man legion terminator squad -260
-2X lighting claws
-2X power fists
-2X chain fists

Fast attack

10 man Locutarus storm squad -285
-Sergeant power axe

Heavy support

10 man Legion heavy weapons squad -285
-missile launchers

Legion Sicaran battle tank -230
-las cannon sponsons
-armored ceramite
-dozer blade

legion vindicator siege tank squad -155
-laser destroyer array
-armored ceramite
-extra armor

list totals up to 2330 points so far

I honestly dont know what else to run in this list because my Tank type units cannot exceed my infantry units due to my rite of war

>>51128021
I guess the big unknown factor is how many worlds just up and joined the imperium without fighting, seeing it as a good deal from when contact was reestablished with Terra. Obviously, this doesn't make for a very interesting story, so the lore we have about the great crusade is generally about those worlds that fought back.

>>51126557
Cute list

>the IF player

>>51128073
What are you gonna do to stop a flare shielded spartan ?

>>51128021
Remember MaSade?
Barely
Remember his colleagues? Of course not. The hordes of humanity were the real face of the crusade.

But I thought Macharius retook and expanded the conquest to their one million number

>>51128143
Nag him to death :^)

>>51128073
Are your terminators walking?

>>51128073
How you gonna deal with flyers?

>>51128191
I was thinking of investing in a land raider

>>51128143
hopefully flanking it and glancing it to death other than that I have no real answer

>>51128224
Could add flak missiles to the heavy support squad

>>51128240
Drop the Sicaran for a Venator?

Add some Grav to at least slow the cunt down?

Haven't posted the more recent version of this list. It keeps getting stuck around 2100 points. The Support squads have just been added in. That last 450 points that they represent I'm finding difficult to fill. Either a single expensive unit goes in with like 40 points left over, or I get 1 shit and 1 good, or two mediocre units.

Death Guard, Creeping Death, 2465/2500

HQ (280)

Praetor - Artificer, Combi, Refractor and Scythe - 140

Siege Breaker - Artificer, Combi and Thunder Hammer - 140

Elites (540)

Apothecary x2, Artificer x2, Augury Scanner x2- 120

Kheres Mortis - 180

Quad Launcher x3, Phosphex - 240

Troops (930)

20 man Tac Squad, Vexilla, Artificer and Melta on Sarge - 250

20 man Tac Squad, Vexilla, Artificer and Melta on Sarge – 250
5 man Melta Support Squad, Rhino+Dozer – 215
5 man Melta Support Squad, Rhino+Dozer - 215

Heavy Support (715)
2x Predator Executioner + Dozer - 270

2x Vindicator + Dozer (250)

Sicaran Venator + Dozer (195)

>>51128418
3x shatter shells on the quad launchers will use up most of those points, and give you some useful versatility.

Personally I'd also drop one support squad for a trio of grav rapiers. Remember, your children of barbarus don't really give a fuck about grav anomalies.

>>51128917
Pissflaps, one of those Melta squads should be a Plasma squad

Arsebollocks.

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What's a good helmet with a grill for the MkIII? I want to make some old style Death Guard using the old plague marines as the base.

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>>51128959
Why not just get the FW conversion set? Most of the older ones didn't have a grill.

Otherwise, MKVII helmets?

>>51125229
The issue with praetors is that they often can help make up generic death star units and lead to masturbation over the best character.
>My praetor attacks at initiative 6 and lowers enemy WS by 1 when in base contact
>My praetor is WS 7 in challenges
>My praetor has a 3++ and eternal warrior
etc.

Also Lord Marshals only really exist to take honour guards which kind of removes the goal of making your army about the regular dudes. IMO the goals of this should be threefold
>Remove the generic death star units and super heavy spam
>Focus on the LA rules and rites of war of legions as opposed to their super elite WS 5 terminators or unit of weeaboo fightan masters or whatever
>Remove the constant elite army masturbation

>>51119573
They're all official.

I think the oily/dark metallic look is hard to pull off - if you take any shortcuts it just looks like a lazy collection of metallic grays with insufficient contrast. On the other hand, black is overdone among loyalists (and Raven Guard do it best, imo). The key is to introduce a little bit of color and a lot of contrast. That's why FW's overwrought scheme works - the base color is a nearly-black metallic gray with a shade of purple in it and a bit of green and yellow. I'd leave the yellow out, personally, so that cool colors dominate the base color. Then let the silver trim have a tinge of warm colors and make the silver as light as possible.

>>51129037
>What are you pointing at?

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>>51129037
>Why not just get the FW conversion set?

You mean the 30k helmet set or the plague marine kit? The former is more MkIV and I'm using them for my MkIV tacticals, but want my MkIIIs to look different. The latter is on a MkV torso.

>Otherwise, MKVII helmets?

Sort of what I'm after, but which ones? Just plain MkVII helmet might look a little silly. The SW kit has pic related, which has a brim on the brow, studs, etc.

>>51127933
Don't bother. Yes, they're more mobile, but you pay more points for a 2+ save that you already had, and jetbikes are fundamentally shooty units. Outriders are assault-oriented and that's what Praetors and Command Squads are best at.

>>51129068
So, play as the usual Fist army only sans Siggy/Polux?
Oh, no more Phalanx Warder army, the humanity!
:^)
Storm shield termies for days

>>51129277
>Outriders are assault-oriented
>Their only weapons are chainswords, and you have to pay for the sarge
>Meltabomb bike gang squad btfo'd
I want this meme to die.
Salamander and Dark angel jetbikes are more assaulty than bikes because of their heavy bolter shenanigans
I'm not forgetting the Iron Warriors and their shrapnel bolts. And considering Pinning by itself is mostly useless, they aren't either.

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Hello again, /hhg/!

>anti-blob
The Vindicators will do a number on them, and fire from Marines/Contemptors should finish them off. The Fellblade can help too, but it's unlikely it won't be needed elsewhere.

>anti-flier
The Contemptors will do wonders, aside from superheavy fliers/heavy spamming (highly unlikely) it won't be a problem.

>anti-vehicle
The Fellblade, Land Raider, Termies, and Dreadnoughts will put in work, again aside from spam there shouldn't be much issue.

>anti-elites (TEQs and the like)
A little more perplexing, but tanky low-models will have a hard time countering the sheer number of shots from Tac squads, plus Demolisher cannons can be reliable enough, and short of storm shields people will be dying.

>anti-bike/jump/jets
Same way as dealing with blobs, but the Termies can jump out and try beating up the bikes. The only

>anti-character
Few people I know run Primarchs/Deathstars at this level, but if it happens, then same idea as dealing with elites. The Leviathan could do really well, and since they'll need S7 to even touch him, I think (steering clear of TH/CF) tell be alright.

>anti-super heavy
The Fellblade can drop HP's with its cannon, Leviathan can do pretty well (the drill would be better here, but oh well) Termies can do damage as well, but if they all get cooked I'm relying on the LR's Lascannons (aka I'm screwed)

>anti-monstrous creature
This one has me perplexed. Right now, I *can* deal with lots of T7 and come out okay, but T8 will screw me. Lascannons aren't reliable enough, and blasts will Demolishers will only do so much. Termies would get pulped, so I'm relying on my Dreadnoughts, which could leave them a bit stretched when also fighting good amounts of the stuff above.

I think it's a pretty well-rounded list, and funny enough my biggest weaknesses are the same kind of stuf I'm bringing. That and MC's, of course.

Any recommendations? The only thought I have is switching the cannon for a drill on the leviathan.

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>>51129204
The 30k helmets are legion-specific, not armour-specific. Pic related. They look great on MKIII, and the torso component of the same upgrade set is MKIII.

If you're asking for plague marines, none of the old ones wore MKIII in the first place, so their helmets wouldn't match for the most part. The FW conversion kit came out before they were doing older marks of armour, but is the closest thing to MKIII plague marines. It's also better value than the legion set.

If you're going to apply armour autism to the legion helmets, you probably wouldn't want to use MKVII on MKIII in the first place without heavy conversion work, cutting it up, adding cables, trims, studs and spikes of your own, the old-fashioned way. Space Wolf bits will probably make you look like a cheap faggot, while still costing you an exorbitant amount in ebay fees to get enough of them.

Which legion uses the leviathan best?

>>51129676
Blood Angels.

Assnipples.

>>51129702
New stipulation: Not a legion that's still using it's placeholder alpha test rules.

>>51129676
Alpha Legion with Dynat, for the AP 0 meltas and re-rolling sweeps.

>>51129676
With IHs it will never die
With Alpha's Dynat it'll do more damage. I mean it is a dreadnought, isn't it?
Blood Angel boob cannons are bullshit

>>51129583
>The 30k helmets are legion-specific, not armour-specific.

Yet the have MkIV wedge shape to them and the sergeant one even has the top vents of the MkIV helmet visible.

>Pic related.

I'm sure we can dig up plenty of images of MkIII wearing non-MkIII helmets.

>same upgrade set

The Salamanders upgrade set comes with very MkIV style helmets with MkIII style torsos.

>none of the old ones wore MKIII

From Warhammer Community, next to a very old plague marine model:
>"The Plague Marine to the left was made wearing a heavily armoured Mk. III suit to reflect the Legion’s propensity for gruelling frontal assaults."

>adding cables, trims, studs and spikes of your own

Why would I need to do that, the old ones don't have that much of it. I got spikes for the pickelhaube, but there's no studs and very little cabling on the model I posted. Most of the cabling is on the torso.

>costing you an exorbitant amount in ebay fees to get enough of them.

There's a bits store I use that sells them for like 20 cents a pop. Similar style SM helmets without the studs and trim for 10 cents.

>>51125973
>After AT's success FW release rules for infantry to turn it into epic
>Next month 40k titan sized Ordinatus Majoris are released

>>51129749
>>51129759
Thanks, will look into what kind of fun list I can muster

>>51129909
Hopefully we will see Magnus and more legion specific units come Feb 4th.

Also Inferno.

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>>51129943
>still believes Inferno will actually be released

>>51129969
Might as well just skip Inferno and go straight to book 8.

First time dealing with forgeworld, and I have a question: how do I recognize mold release? I have wash the parts as described, and there is no trace of anything "glossy" ( taking the bottom of the sprues as a reference. Those do peel off and are glossy)

Please, help a fellow anon out.

>>51129969
>The inferno isn't arriving because the Alpha legion's Coils of the Hydra makes them deploy only on a 6+

Which combi weapons should my HQ be using?
The dudes they're with have Melta bombs if that helps inform

Rolled 2 (1d6)

>>51130054
Rolling, if only for delicious custard.

>>51130089
Nope, try again later in the next thread.
Saboteurs destroyed your Damocles Rhino and Proteus LR Explorator :^)

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>>51130054

>>51129346
How do heavy bolters make a unit assaulty?

Outriders can take one power weapon for the sergeant and every three bikes (four in a squad of 9 or 10), as many as you can take in a squad of 15 Assault Marines. Focusing on assault means you don't need to hesitate to jink, which isn't quite as bad anyway thanks to the twin-linked weapons. If you're playing Ravenwing, the sarge gets rad grenades and you get to reroll sweeping advances, and whatever the knight commander bonus gives you.

You can use them as a shooty unit, especially if you give them grav weapons, but I don't think they're points-efficient used that way.

>>51130114
Outriders get gravs?

>>51129749
>>51129759
Dynat was a mistake. No special character should be this much of an autoinclude. I genuinely don't think I've ever seen an AL list without him.

>>51130114
>How do heavy bolters make a unit assaulty?
For DA? Overkilly HBolters means you'll have to deal with less enemies.
For Sallies, overkilly S6 Heavy flamers achieve the same result. I mean they can swap any Heavy Bolter in the army for Heavy Flamers, right?

>>51130209
>Implying there's a single option isn't a mistake
But yeah Dynat is pretty bullshit.

>>51130209
>No special character should be this much of an autoinclude.
Said of Dynat in a world where Scoria is a thing.

>>51130209
He's not an autoinclude.
He has to compete with Autilon Skorr, also an autoinclude :^)

>>51130296
>tfw Skorr is supposed to be basically Cato Sicarius in that he's not really a good tactician, just a glory hog
>tfw FW makes him a better tactician than most Primarchs

>>51130328
What? No, he's a glory hog BECAUSE he's a good tactician. He's a Delegatus because he was always about "speshul mission this, speshul mission that".
And he was successful for the most part.

>>51126525
>>51126569
RAW it is three.

Tac marines are not compulsory.

Assault marines are not compulsory.

Breachers are not compulsory.

It's that you must take two troop choices. Which can be any combo of tac, AM, or breachers.

When you explicitly name recon marines as compulsory that means you MUST take them.

It is three

>>51130508
Unless it's part of an allied detachment.
RoWs in allied detachments were a mistake. That's what Heralds should be for.

>>51130539
>That's what Heralds should be for.
What do you mean?

>>51130328
>"Excuse me, but you must mean that it is one of the greatest deeds the Legion has ever accomplished! And it was thanks to I, Autilon Skorr, because that is what it is! And I, Autilon Skorr, was thinking that it was the most righteous time to remind you that I, Autilon Skorr", to be your rightful heir as the new Primarch.”

>>51130571
Heralds are the forerunners of diplomats. They are the guys who are sent when the boss is busy and has to be elsewhere, but carries his seal.
Maloghurst would be a Herald. He's even carrying a Legion Standard, but the concept of a Herald hadn't been invented back then.

>>51124999
Youre still missing the point. Its an alternate format, not nerfing the current one. Its supposed to represent the nameless grunts fighting in the fires of war without direct support of high command. Representing all those off screen battles that might be a footnote in casualty calculations. IE no rites of war, no named characters, no LoWs. Just them and their training to see them through.

Then youre forced to take more generic units rather than depend on vets and specifics.

Rather than just pretending a Delegatus isn't actually a Delegatus. I know its already all imaginary, but making the fluff fit is better from general perspective. What you suggest isn't a grunt format, but rather a "B-List Hero" format. The kind of thing when people didnt want to play hero hammer.

Also D already got nerf'd hard in 7th. FWs 'alternate D rules' are actually better than the current D rules.

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>>51130640
YFW Autilon Skorr is the only AL marine ever whom you can be sure is not Alpharius, because they don't like him.

>>51130508
Wait if Recon marines become compulsory troops you can never have more than 3 units of them, because after those 3 you don't have compulsory troop slots left.

>tfw standard armies can field more Recon marine units than Recon Company ROW

>>51128117
No staying hidden in Land Raiders til the final turn this time yeh?

>>51130669
Thats not how it works.

>>51130669
Compulsory means they must fill your compulsory Troop slots before anything else can be taken. After that you can use them to fill any number of non-compulsory slots as you like.

>>51129281
>Storm shield termies for days
Can't take them as troops but besides that sure. The point isn't to nerf armies its to help reign in lists like
>My army has three squads of WS 5 veterans with power swords and 2 units of Palatine Blades with phoenix spears and sonic shriekers one of which is led by my 7 attacks on the charge praetor and my librarian with biomancy powers with a chaplain thrown in, all of them with jump packs
If you don't like the concept you don't have to listen to it but the goal is to make the game more about the regular dudes as opposed to the WS 5 elite swordsmen or Guilliman's bodyguards or Angron and a bunch of marines in a spartan.

>>51130750
What's your army anon?

>>51130200
Er... I think I had Iron Hands in mind there.

>>51130247
You're basically saying that they're good at shooting. Which they are. They do more damage shooting than they do on the charge.

>>51130652
Sounds like it'd work best as an alternate force org. 0 HQ, 0 elites, lots of troops, maybe a couple of fast attack and heavy support. Not sure how you'd convince anyone to take it...

>>51130652
>IE no rites of war
Why? Rites of war are just the methods legions preferred to fight. Maru Skara isn't bringing in some super special troops or equipment. Its just some Emperor's Children autistically timing their arrival. Descent of Angels isn't the best of the legion dropping from above, its just assault marines. All you are doing is making all the armies identical.
>No rites of war
>Limited special units
>No special characters
So the only real differences are legiones astartes rules which for the most part aren't that different.

>>51130831
In all honesty not only I had forgotten about the Outriders' one-in-three power weapons in favour of DA armour-ignoring HBolters, but also thought we were talking about a command squad (whom have access to power weapons of their own) and said Acid Bolters >>> TL expensive special weapons

>>51130766
Mechanicum ordo reductor but primarily focusing on shitty thallax, myrmidon destructors, and macrocarids.

>>51130967
>myrmidon destructors and macrocarids are shitty
Oh, mechanicum players, you're so adorable.

>>51131008
I think he meant (shitty thallax), myrmidon destructors and macrocarids.

In all honestly agreeing to a no Spartan-Artillery-Flyers play style would give you all that diversity you guy (singular) crave for.
Suddenly Cataphractii deathstars aren't so attractive when they're forced to walk under plasma tactical fire, Command squads experience a revival and Praetors begin to be mounted.
Legion Heavy support now aren't deleted by artillery and Contemptor Dreads aren't mere immortal turrets.

>>51131088
Oh, and agree to no Superheavy and Lords of War.

>>51131008
I said thallax were shitty. Which they are
>40 points each
>Worthless guns
>Can almost completely ignore cover but that doesn't matter since their weapons have shitty AP
>Their guns are rending but only get one shot each so its mostly a moot point
>Mandatory troops for Reductor but Magos Reductor can't take a jetpack like other Archmagos and thus would force them to footslog or need a special escort
>Only 1 in 3 can take a special weapon
>Fold like paper to any dedicated melee unit in assault (so they are worthless for holding down objectives)
>Getting 21 wounds costs you 295 points for a unit with no offensive capabilities
>Only real use is tank killing and hiding on objectives while hoping your opponent doesn't drop assault marines or something on you

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>>51129749

>>51131088
So... Large point scale ZM?

>>51131144
Pretty much, ZM in the open so assault Marines and vehicles and bikes aren't automatically btfo'd.
But people would need to agree with that, so good luck.

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>>51131122
Smiling_Alpharius.mp3.exe

>>51130957
It's cool.

I wouldn't put a command squad on jetbikes mostly because it'd cost a lot of points for 2+ armor that they already had. You get heavy weapons, but command squads want to get up close to charge and give a fearless bubble, and that often means jinking.

Would Dark Angels, Blood Angels, and Salamanders be better off taking Attack Bikes instead of Jetbikes? 120 pts for three instead of 135, 2W... the drawback is that you can only take heavy bolters (or whatever your legion rules replace them with) but that's fine for those legions.

>>51131182
I'm sure an urban board with lots of ruins would work. Maybe you're in a hive city, which would make flyers and artillery impossible and limit heavy equipment.

>>51130868
Again, the point is an optional alternate format. Simply for the sake of fun. Like how magic has different formats.

>>51130950
>>IE no rites of war
>Why?
To represent line grunts fighting in a war where everything sucks and everyone dies unremembered. Rites of War modify a lot of things and many are based around elites of some kind. Far and away from grunt work.

>So the only real differences are legiones astartes rules which for the most part aren't that different.
Thats so wildly untrue I dont know where to begin.

>>51131120
>>Worthless guns
>>Can almost completely ignore cover but that doesn't matter since their weapons have shitty AP
>>Their guns are rending but only get one shot each so its mostly a moot point
>>Mandatory troops for Reductor but Magos Reductor can't take a jetpack like other Archmagos and thus would force them to footslog or need a special escort
This. Maybe they were Heavy 2 and didn't cost more than a power fist Terminator a piece.
I mean all legion troops were made cheaper. It's time the Mechanicum gets an update.

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>>51131240

>>51131240
>Maybe you're in a hive city, which would make flyers and artillery impossible
Don't those models thrive in said environments because flyers aren't allowed by buildings and barrage weapons don't need LoS?

>>51131270
Same with Vorax, total ass.
>65 points for 2 ass guns, a weak (useless most of the time) save, and little/no tactical ability
T6 with 3W is nice, but aside from that and MC he's totally useless

>>51131270
In fairness, it's not like tactical marines, assault marines, or breachers are especially hot shit. You're not alone in your compulsory troops being a bit meh.

>>51131263
>To represent line grunts fighting in a war where everything sucks and everyone dies unremembered. Rites of War modify a lot of things and many are based around elites of some kind. Far and away from grunt work.
So limit the ones based around elites. Ironfire isn't based around elites and is perfect for a bunch of guys in an inglorious assault on an enemy fortress.

>>51131263
>RoWs are far and away from grunt work.
This.
Remember the chainaxe-their-faces-off WE Berserker assault that even forces you to bring extra troops?
That's in fact a highly trained elite force which explains the free pattern of their chainaxes :^)

>>51131316
>and little/no tactical ability
Hey, come on now, that's hardly the miniatures' fault.

>>51131296
How do you fly a plane or fire artillery inside a building?

>>51131316
>Same with Vorax, total ass.
I disagree with you this time.
Scout MC that fuck up any sort of infantry? They're fairly priced for the most part.
But remind me of the Ursarax costs.

>>51131270
What you fail to mention is that those are highly mobile jet pack troops with 3 wounds each that can hop out, rain down 6 ap 3 shots that basically have ignore cover in addition to the standard guns, and then hop back behind cover to avoid any chance of ranged retaliation.

I mean sure, they don't kill terminators, but it's not like mechanices lacks other things to deal with those, and anything in powerarmour is pretty much decimated cover or not unless it had more than 10 marines.

But then again there are also people who complain that eldar wraithknights and jetbikes are too many points for what they do.