/srg/ Shadowrun General

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>>51099797
You mean this bit? I can't replicate the issue, seems to work fine.

>>51098800
http://shadowrun.wikia.com/wiki/Dzoo-noo-qua?action=history
>last edited: 15:22, August 11, 2010

>>51099961
No. See >>51100166

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We've gotta get this host secure, fucking technocritters ate half the OP.

I know it was deliberate

>>51100168
While I'm at it, what does Howling Shadows have to say?
>Until recently, dzoo-noo-qua were never reported as sapient, as the virus devolves their mental faculties.
>The dwarf variant of Strain 1 Infected, these twisted creatures only rarely display intelligence or sapience.
>etc.

>>51100203
Those damned mongrels! Still, nice to have an OP that isn't full of troll asses for once.
>>51100189
Special -> Reapply Improvements should fix it. There's an ordering issue between removing the old improvements and re-adding current ones that causes the problem.

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>>51100289
Don't lie, I know you want it.

>>51100341
Given that I've seen a few pics of trolls that I would actually want to stick my dick in floating around /srg/, I have to say I'm moderately disappointed.

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>>51100289
>Still, nice to have an OP that isn't full of troll asses for once.
Where da troll women at?

What's to stop me installing critter cyberware in people?

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>>51100411
It says in the fluff that people's self-image and mental faculties are more advanced than any critter, and it's not upwards compatible. So no, you can't STIRRUP a dude.

>>51100452
But Dragonfall taught me otherwise.

>>51100289
As I said, it doesn't. It just stays gone.

>>51100452
What about the Orientation one?

>>51100536
Show me THAT character file then. Once you've made it, changed the priorities and noticed that assensing hasn't come back. On my dev build it's working fine.

>>51100636
Nevermind, guess it fixed it.

>>51100510
That's a cyberzombie. Quite a different set of affairs from start to finish.

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So question, what does a crit glitch on a memory test do.

Also does anyone know if there's any book with info on the Dissonance ?

>>51100780
You either forgot something critically important, or misremembered it into something worse.

And in 5e, you've got Data Trails, unless the Technomancer book comes out with more. But that's not available now.

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>>51100376
case in point

>>51100780
>So question, what does a crit glitch on a memory test do.
Did you forget to read the core book?

>>51100920
Mostly asking for what you'd think it would be. Crit Glitch are entirely situation dependant.

>>51100920
Maybe HE rolled the glitch

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I'm making a smuggler rigger. Can a character just be good at driving or do they have to invest in drones to be a credit to team?

>>51100998
Drones, or basic combat skill. Unless you're gonna Dukes of Hazzard into the corp building.

>>51100998
Some riggers get away with only doing drones. A few get away with just a car. My recommendation is to have a tiny, cheap spydrone if nothing else in addition to your car.

>>51100636
How hard would it be to have a "hide on sheet" toggle in Chummer? Things like Qualities. If you want to hide an aspect of your character.

>>51101083
You mean like specific qualities or just qualities in general
Because the second already exists

>>51101162
How?

>>51100945
Rolling etiquette to make a post on 4chan that won't get me ridiculed.

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>>51100998
You're going to have a bunch of points in Pilot Ground Craft anyways. Rig your car with some Aztech Crawlers that have grenades taped to them (which you can launch from racks under the car) and some of those Citron Smoke Generators. You can have a James Bond car.

>>51101184
What I guess you want is to print your character without qualities/backstory/notes/etc., right?
After pressing on the print button a window should come up where you can see the preview of your sheet. On the blocks should be two parts on the bottom: page break and hide
Page break makes the current page stop after that block and everything following to start on a new page
Hide (or show, something in that sense) determines whether that block is printed

If you meant hiding one specific quality, then I can only offer you some good edding to make it unreadable

>>51100661
No worries, glad to hear it.
>>51101083
Depends on the character sheet implementation, but most of them have the ability to hide a given block of CSS at the bottom of the block.

If I cared more about the sheets I'd throw some time or money at getting an actual UX framework in place so there's consistency between the sheets, but I detest web dev so it's below even wiki documentation on my priority list.

>>51101322
>>51101365
Oh well. It was specific qualities. I suppose I can just delete the ones and print the sheet without saving the changes.

>>51101214
>filename
You know, I've been looking at that GMC Gryphon. You can upgrade that thing to have 10 speed and 7 handling (oh and it comes with acceleration 7 by default), and 36 armor. You're the fast thing in the skies, the most maneuverable too and you're so heavily armored that an anti-vehicle rocket just scratches your paint job if it's not a direct hit. I want one so bad, but I know no GM with any good sense is ever going to let me have one.

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>>51100203

I bet the keebs did this.

It's a conspiracy, I tell you!

>>51101390
Hrm. What kinds of qualities are you trying to hide, anyway?

>>51101656
That's for me to know and you to never find out ;)

>>51101656
Not him, but I like to hide Big Regret for obvious reasons.

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So how much nuyen and modification slots does it cost to install 3 orifices available for sexual pleasure into my robowaifu?

>>51101191
You glitched

>>51102102
>robowaifu
>essence

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What the heck is this troll wearing for armor?

>>51102214
I have no idea how you even made that mistake.

>>51102214
I didn't say they needed to be made of flesh, they just need to FEEL like the real thing.

>>51102224
Stylish full body armor, no helmet.

>>51102233
Neither do I, honestly.

Connections-wise, what's a good level of Fixer to give to runners for free?

>>51102325
What I do at my table is that one person, usually the face, 'buys' the group Fixer. Everyone else gets that Fixer at X/1 for free, and are free to pick other contacts. It helps to create a more interesting web of contacts surrounding the runners when they have that extra freedom.

>>51102372
That's a good idea. Might borrow that for my own games.

>>51100998
Your rigger is going to want a staggering amount of Reaction (on top of his Control Rig), which means he's going to want Reaction Enhancers + Wired Reflexes.

That's already halfway to him being a street samurai.

During the run itself, he'll be a decent gunman. Then, during the escape, he fucking shines.

I've played a character like that before. It's great.

>>51102372
Well, that's what I mean. I'm thinking of cutting out the middle man (the Face) and just have a free Fixer that they all know so they can pick other contacts. My question is what level of Connections is appropriate. Assuming 'standard' runners, of course. Would 'Connections 5' be enough for them to have a finger in every pie in Seattle (Thus having them be able to assign all sorts of jobs to Runners), or should I play it more slowly, have the Fixer be relatively inexperienced (Connections 2-3) and gain cred alongside the Runners?

>>51102400
>Reaction
>not using Logic when Jumped In
Omae...

>>51102400
I like to do it the other way around and put a rating 1 control rig in my street sam

>>51102419
You don't use Logic for Pilot when Jumped In. You use Reaction for all Pilot skills.

Are you some kind of stupid?

>>51102426
I'd go for Control Rig 2 on someone who's supposed to be extra good at escape driving. That -2 to thresholds and +2 to limits is just super sexy. Your mileage may vary, of course.

>>51102401
I wouldn't suggest giving the fixer /completely/ free, but its your table.

A Fixer with connection 5 is better you plan on having them be a more distant character, who just gives jobs and business. A Fixer with connection 3 could be a friend, like in Dragonfall, and you work with them to improve their own web of contacts in Seattle.

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>>51102224
God I love this piece of art. Its a shame the artist never did any more work for them outside that one book. Probably got shilled and now knows better.

>>51102450
Nope. Not when Jumped In. Just like Gunnery... Its all Logic.

>>51102468
>Nope. Not when Jumped In. Just like Gunnery... Its all Logic.
You're just completely wrong, is the thing. Pilot uses Reaction, regardless of whether you're Jumped In.

You're some kind of retard - or, more likely, your GM is some kind of retard, and you're using his ruling as if it was the actual rules.

>>51102462
Such a fucking waste. They finally had a cool-looking cover for once and then that was it.

>>51102485
What was it for?

>>51102517
Hard Targets.

>>51102458
Yeah, alright, that's basically the kind of answer I was looking for. I'm thinking it'd be neater to do it the latter way, but the former is also an option available. Thanks!

>>51102458
>>51102605
You could also go with a lesser Connection rating for free fixers, as they're willing to do less for the character. Or, you could go with 1 karma per 2 Connection points, up to their full value.

I was thinking about it, who the fuck owns Aztechnology? It has to have been revealed in some official adventure somewhere. It seems like a pretty big secret for me to never have thought of before.

>>51102988
The Cartels.

>>51102988
A lot of people.
They have publicly traded stock and thus they have a board of directors and a CEO.
Shall I publish a list for you?
They gave it once.

>>51103022
That's who founded AZ, but it's completely anonymous. Some individual or weird faction could have taken over, couldn't they?

>>51103040
Yes; the rich.
There's more to it then that, but still; if you have enough money you CAN buy shares of the Azzies.

I heard an offhand comment putting the big A under "corps owned by dragons", was that one of the conspiracies around the amazonian war?

>>51103107
A dragon is indeed rumored to own stock, but which one is currently unknown.
The Big D used to anonymously own stock before his death and apparently used it to curb the worst excesses of the company by locking up certain boardroom situations.

>>51103107
Of course it is, you don't even need confirmation on that, it's just the way the world is. Amazonia kicked out corps, and any corps that come will almost certainly have a dragons claw in their pie.

What does the average person think of Dunky and Loaf? I bet most people don't even know about Loaf, but probably love Dunky just because presidents get high approval ratings for eternity for being assassinated.

How do I make a character that isn't awakened hang with lightly cybered adepts?

>>51103194
Chrome yourself up to the goddamn gills or be as edgy as you possibly can.

>>51103208

Can you give me a quick number crunch? How chromed are we talking here?

>>51103223
Everything.
Wired reflexes+Reaction Enhancers or Synaptic Boosters for your initiative, because you -need- that initiative.
Cyberlimbs, or a lot of muscle toner and augmentation so you can hang with them physically.

Of course, this assumes you want to play a Sam.

>>51103223
There is 6 essence
Use it

>>51103223
Reaction Enhancers, Wired Reflexes, Muscle Toner and Augmentations, maybe a few armored hands and feet, and an Ares Alpha loaded with APDS.

>>51103242
>>51103245
>>51103272

I can do that with starting cash right?

>>51103283
Define 'Starting cash'. Resources A? Hell yeah.

>>51103283
Of course, chummer.
Magic is for bitches.

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>>51102401
I've always found the best way to handle free fixers is not to let your players know their connection and loyalty and emphasise that they're people who know the right people. It gives you a handy lever for plot if you need something to happen a certain way.
>>51103040
There's around half a dozen known majority shareholders as of 2074, only some of whom are well known in other instances of the fluff. A single individual doesn't really hold enough wealth to take control of all of it at this point, short of Nanosecond Buyout shenanigans.
>>51101943
Bah, that's what the notes field is for. If your Regret is small enough that it fits in the extra field then it's not big enough.

>>51103291
>>51103286

And I'll be able to hang with an adept with some choice bioware?

>>51103107
The evil cult that runs aztechnology is potentially run by a dragon corrupted by one of the horrors

>>51103642
I think it's more like the cult HAS a dragon corrupted by the Horrors.

What are some good knowledge skills for a face?

What are some knowledge skills you've actually made use of in all the time you've played?

>>51104096
Bars/Clubs, Music, Sports, Politics, News

All of these things are subjects that a Face can talk about to quickly break the ice, slip into groups, and make friends (and enemies) as needed.

>>51104392
I'm gonna go with bars then. Alcohol is alcohol no matter your socioeconomic status.

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Rate/Hate

http://pastebin.com/PQHbHj4U

>>51104477
Your character DISGUSTS me. I'd run with her.

and contract her to train my dog

>>51103308
Maybe/Probably.

I'd go for restricted Gear and Move-by-Wire 3 (+ Biowarecompatibility) + used Muscletoner 3.
This way, you at least have the advantage of being the FUCKING FAST guy with 3-4 INI passes.
Grabbing 4-6 Levels of Nephritic Screen + Narco + Drug Tolerant might also be viable. Being a juicer is one of those things that awakened Characters can't really do well.

>>51104477
What is going on with those skills?

>>51104517
>>51104529
Wanted to get a companion pupper. Also the weird thing with Throwing Weapons has been fixed.

>>51104520
Did you perhaps mean biocompatability (cyberware). Also used bioware? ew.

>>51104477
IF you're taking the tomahawk maybe invest in some blades? it's a decent melee weapon in it's own right.

What in the hell is up with advancement costs in SR5?
Like, you get around 5 or 6 Karma per run if it's a good run but the costs of raising everything is more then double that in nearly all cases and usually is over triple?

Who balanced this horseshit?

>>51104997
Like, if I'm reading this it seems like my players are going to be encouraged to get lots of skills at really low levels and never improve anything else at all after character creation.
That doesn't make any sense to me, so I must be reading this wrong, right?

>>51104997
>>51105039
Ignore that table at the end of character creation.
Like everything involving SR5 it is in rigorous need of editing and has nothing to do with the actual rules.

>>51104477

140 lbs? Sounds Thicc. I'd try to get a Pop-culture, or Academic interest in there to round out the personality

>>51104951
>Biocompatibility (Cyberware)
Yeah, that was the one.

>used Bioware
Only way to get Toner Lvl 3

>>51105532
Yeah but eww

>>51105769
There is no "eeew" in POWER

>>51105769
>thinking his standard bioware is just grown in a dish

>>51105918
I can pretend

>>51105918
Well my revulsion is based more that's pretty lore breaking min-maxing. I know RAW you can do it, but it doesn't quite make sense. Bioware isn't like cyberware, you can't just harvest it like cyberware, since they're living tissue when the user dies it would die too. You'd have a lot of trouble harvesting used bioware.

>>51105990
Not if you drugged and kidnapped someone alive and sliced them up

>>51105990
You are not harvesting it by killing somebody, its rather stuff you get because the former owner upgraded to something of a higher level or quality.

>>51105990
While >>51106112 is on the money, there's also the option of putting it in a ziplock bag in an icebox equivalent. You know, like transporting organs today, but probably better because it's the fucking future.

>>51106394
That's still very time sensitive, you'd pretty much have to have the person killed to order and I doubt that would result in the kind of saving you get for used. I can't fault >>51106112 though.

>>51106444
Nice trips. Again, the fucking future.
> I doubt that would result in the kind of saving you get for used
Yes, not having to culture and grow the bioware is a big saving.

>>51104997
Shadowrun is a anti-advancement, by default. The way it's designed, you're expected to pick up some minor ware, skill points in non-specialties to round yourself out, and so on. But between the start of a campaign and the end of a campaign, they expect you to have advanced very little from your starting point, and mostly just by getting less-shit at the things you used to be shit at.

Naturally, this is the opposite of what people find fun, and so common advice is to at least triple the recommended rewards.

>>51106492
Future or not biological materials still die, and having someone who has bioware you want killed to order is going to be expensive. Unless you nab the guy, drag them in yourself I am dubious that it would actually be cost effective.

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>>51106563
It was more obvious in 4e when skills maxed out at 6.

That way, you know you get out of chargen as an expert in certain things, unlike now, where buying up skills is a impossible trap option,

>>51106618
Technology, even if it doesn't get better, almost shrinks by the day even now as a result of better battery, isolation and transmission technology. It wouldn't be a stretch to assume that an organ cooler in Shadowrun could be the size and portability of a tote bag, with enough battery to last for a good 24 hours.
One-time nanobot solutions are also relatively cheap and easy in Shadowrun, and it wouldn't cost more than 200 nuyen for a single shot of wound-stanching and disinfectant nanobots.
Knock someone out with a shock weapon, a spell or a moderated dose of NeuroStun, cut the bioware out of them using a single knowsoft and possibly a drone arm with good coordination (if you don't have the Agility yourself), and jab them with a nanobot solution that will tide them over until they regain consciousness.
You could even use cheap carcerands loaded with a stimulant to make sure they're in shape to get themselves to a clinic after the bioware has been taken out, even if it's relatively vital - and all of that for about 500 nuyen at most.

>>51106618
There are ways to fluff it that include harvesting without having to kill a guy with the correct 'ware. 'Wimps' are a thing in Shadowrun and nobody gives a damn about a non-viable quick-matured clone body. Tamanous (and probably other criminal organisations) have 'farms' where they implant and mature the bioware into slaves. Alternatively, they're knock-offs grown in a vat instead of a real body.

>>51105990
>since they're living tissue when the user dies it would die too
Nonsense. Organs can survive for quite some time after people die. That's how organ donations work. People need their hearts to live, so obviously they ain't donating the things while they're still alive.

>>51106677
You do know that that only people who die by brain death can be used for organ transplant right? The body itself needs to still be alive and able to be kept alive by machinery if you want to be able to perform a transplant before the tissues die.

So, playing 4th edition.

A situation came up in which a player wanted to shoot into a room then turn around and take cover next to the door frame, so he could pop back out and take a couple more shots during the encounter.

We were confused about either granting him the Good cover defense bonus and attack penalty, or giving the enemies the -6 penalty for shooting a target they can't see.

I argued that since he was popping out of cover to take pot shots, and he was actually looking at the targets he was firing at as opposed to shooting blindly from cover (meaning he had to at least lean out and look at the inside of the room) the enemies were in fact seeing him, since combat occurs in a somewhat simultaneous order, so he should use the Good Cover rules.

Is this a correct interpretation of the rules?

Also, if someone wants to be completely behind cover, and fire using just the gun's smartlinked camera, how does that work?

>>51106742
Yes. You get cover. You're not invisible to enemies because combat is resolved in turns

>>51106702
There's an official short story in one of the rulebooks where some guys bring bio and cyber still attached to the corpse in a steel drum. The only complication the street doc complains about is that they left it in the sun for however long.

>>51106563
God that's staggeringly stupid.
My entire table got into this because of Shadowrun Returns, and while we knew to expect different rules due to the edition differences between SR:R and modern SR5 we didn't expect the actual entertainment value to be missing as well.

If this core book doesn't get any better I'm pretty sure we'll be fucking right off and find some other game for our game night.

>>51106702
Sure, but that doesn't mean you can't do a similar thing with fancy genetically engineered hearts or whatever.

>>51107002
Just use the amount of Karma you'd normally get via the payout table and multiply it by x2 to get it to levels that are actually usefull.
My group plays 1 Day runs, every few weeks and we usually get 10+ Karma after each.
Makes for a nice progression withouth getting out of hand and you can actually buy some shit you normally wouldn't, like higher level Skills.

What kind of gear do I need to hunt packs of ghouls?

>>51107147
Fullbody Armor with a Chemial Seal, Grenades and Burstfire-compatible Shotguns with Flechette and normal Ammo.
Maybe an underbarrel Flamethrower.

>>51106778
wouldn't be the first time something retarded was written in a Shadowrun book.

>>51107221
I'm guessing it wouldn't be the first time a point flew over your head, either.

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>>51107002
If you want to start out as nuggets and get 'meaningful' career advancement in order to get a continual feed of new abilities and dice, use sum-to-8 or something.

I really don't get how getting an extra die is entertainment value though, surely being badass criminals who use their skills, magic and cyberware to pull of heists, kidnappings and sabotage is supposed to be the fun part of the game?
>>51106742
Blindfire using a smartlink is at -3 instead of -6, I believe.

>>51107493
>I really don't get how getting an extra die is entertainment value though
It's not the die itself, but the growth and change it represents. Or just the /vg/ crowd can't handle a lack of regularly increasing numbers.

>>51107493
How big is your image folder, anyway? You post in every /srg/ thread and with different pictures each post

>>51107493
Not the same anon, but I've been running my campaign for about 7 months regularly handing out 10+ karma a session and my players are friggin' monsters.

But, I enjoy it, because I can throw stupid shit at them like enemies with 28 hardened armor, literal tanks, helicopters armed with miniguns, mages that turn fuckers into goo, enemies that do complex full-autos with APDS, enemies that do Bullseye Burst, snipers loaded with DU, force 12+ spirits, etc. to give them a challenge without feeling like a dick.

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>>51107493
>being badass criminals who use their skills, magic and cyberware to pull of heists, kidnappings and sabotage is supposed to be the fun part of the game?


That is PART of the fun of the game.
The other one is to see the character grow on paper, being able to tinker with its stats, see a significant increase in versatility.
Though opposed to the anon above, i can live with a horizontal growth.
I can, however understand the frustrating aspect of playing supposedly low-power (aka street) group, where one part of the players (the awakened) are rushing beyond the others capabilites with permanent acceleration.

One of the reasons i severely dislike the concept of "low" power games in any System that includes magical characters.
Its usually just a one-sided powernerf.

>>51107815
Yep. If you're playing street scum (seriously, FUCK street level), then the mage should be aspected to bring them somewhat down to the level the rest of the group is playing at.

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>>51107815
Versatility is one thing that SR advancement does well. You are at peak dice pool for all the things you're great at, but as a campaign goes on you grow and change in new directions. THe street sam doesn't blow all his karma getting one more die in Automatics, instead he puts points into the Outdoors group as he learns to be innawoods, or Leadership and Instruction as he founds a dojo, or some Mechanic skills because he wants a job where his main task isn't "get shot so the fucker in the robe doesn't."

It works best if you assume that the party are already veteran runners who, while not the best in the world, are about as good as they are likely to ever be at their main role.

>>51106702
>You do know that that only people who die by brain death can be used for organ transplant right?
You're 100% wrong, actually. Regardless of how you die, if you're an organ donor they'll harvest any viable organs and try to transplant them within the hours it takes for the organs to die while on ice.

Die of a heart attack but have a great liver and kidneys? They're going to chop those out of you and try to find someone on the transplant list who they can get them to in time.

In a setting with clone bodies to store organs, cryogenic storage, and all-around superior medical technology to our own, that can clearly be extended, probably indefinitely with the use of the afore-mentioned clone bodies.

>>51107839
>aspected Mage

That sorta works, doesn't keep Adepts from going nuts though, because they get so hillariously big jumps in power with each Initiation, that its not even funny anymore.

>>51107002
Just triple karma rewards, and add an additional multiplier for each real-life session that a rune takes to complete.

So, if a run takes a single session to complete? x3 to the recommended value. Two sessions? x4. Three? x5.

Do the same for nuyen rewards too. The nuyen rewards suggested in the book barely pay for your lifestyle, ammo, and occasional replacement SINs. You make more money, by default, selling boosted cars to the mafia than actually doing shadowruns. It's not just pathetic, it's embarrassing.

That said, if not having major mechanical advancement causes 'the actual entertainment value to be missing' for you, you might be a trash person who should go back to video games instead of tabletop RPGs. There's plenty of RPGs that have slow/no mechanical advancement post-chargen. I don't think Shadowrun should be one of those, personally, but to derive your actual entertainment from advancement like that is pretty pathetic, sempai.

>>51108001
>your fun is wrong, its either roleplay or ROLLplay

KYS, desu
t. another anon

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>>51108015
Trog literally said that not being able to majorly advance his character mechanically ruins his fun.

If there's a badwrong way to have fun, having your fun killed by something like that is certainly it.

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>Awakened should be stronger than out of the box un-awakened because MAGIC.

>Character advancement should be slow as fuck. If you like advancement, play a different game.

>WHY DOES EVERYBODY PLAY AWAKENED?

>>51107002
Shadowrun isn't like D&D - or even like the Shadowrun Returns game series - where you start out as a barely-competent novice who needs to advance their way up to being a specialized badass over the course of an entire campaign.

You START as a specialized badass with endgame-tier skill in your field of focus, and then spend the campaign itself patching the gaps and holes in your character - buying Stealth skills for the murdertank troll, taking the mage out to the shooting range, walking the autistic hacker through telling a convincing lie, and so on.

I can understand if you don't personally find that style of advancement fun. But if that's the case, I'd encourage you to slash everyone's chargen points while you're at it - to force them to start out as scrubs - so that there's actual room for advancement too.

Shadowrun actually discourages advancement within your specialty on three separate fronts you see. It gives tiny karma and nuyen rewards, meaning you have few resources to advance with. It uses rapidly scaling costs - higher grade 'ware, higher level skills, and so forth - to make advancing what you've already got rapidly prohibitively expensive. And, on top of all of that, it lets you start as fucking amazing in your field, so there's really nowhere (practically speaking) to go from there.

You would need to tackle all three of those things to fix what you see as a problem.

Hey /srg/, what the hell is Ares Hard Corps? From what I can gather they're the cheap-ass version of Knight Errant with worse gear and training, is that about right? I can't find any mention of them in the core and there's only like a sentence on the Security page in the wiki.

If so maybe I'll have these guys patrolling Harlem instead of Lone Star, KE or NYPD Inc.

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>>51108085
>Shadowrun actually discourages advancement within your specialty on three separate fronts you see

Only for non-awakened

>>51108075
this one gets it

>>51108075
>Awakened should be stronger than out of the box un-awakened because MAGIC.
That's where you lost me. Mundanes are stronger out of chargen than non-Awakened. The advantage that Awakened have is, in fact, advancement. Initiation is - compared to most characters' advancement methods - cheap and easy, and gives you metamagics/additional PP to play with.

While the Street Samurai is still saving up for the Delta-grade replacement for his current Used cyberarm (because he needs to upgrade that arm in order to free up Essence space for ACTUAL upgrades), the Adept (who started out noticeably less-capable combat-wise than the street samurai) has been able to Initiate three times, and is rolling in PP now as a result.

That's why people play Awakened. Not because they're stronger out of the box (they're not), but because they have a path to advancement that's much shorter, cheaper, and easier than mundanes.

>>51108132

Are you kidding me? An adept with low essence cost ware is absolutely stronger in terms of dice pools and being able to just do cool shit than a mundane street sam, AND they can still advance via initiation. All the low essence ware and genemods and shit they added actually just make the problem worse because it makes it easier for awakened to get huge pool bonuses without lowering their magic too much.

>>51108128
They're where KE officers get sent if they're too incompetent, too corrupt, or too loose of cannons to make it as normal KE officers.

Also, Harlem is thoroughly gentrified in Shadowrun, much like real life - it's almost entirely B/A rated neighborhoods. If they're present in NYC at all, it'll either be as expendable shock troops on operations where the only goal is to kill everyone/everything at a location, or in shitty neighborhoods off of the actual island of Manhattan.

>>51107002
What the other anons have said rings true - it's not that the game doesn't allow for progressing your major skills, it's just that the recommended karma/nuyen payouts are bullshit. Do some proper math and throw enough karma/nuyen at them to increase their major skills/upgrade their gear, OR pick up a bunch of spare skills.

Personally, I like slashing the amount of time it takes to upgrade a skill you know and increasing the amount of time it takes to learn a new one on top of this. There's a lot of fun to be had in shadowrun, chummer, but my god is the system fucked in some places.

Oh and also implement the unofficial alternate rule for hacking where it's just skill checks like EVERYTHING ELSE instead of a minigame. I like to add on an 'except for combat' clause to that, but you can streamline that too if you want.

>>51108165
Those are the words of a theorycrafter who's never actually touched chargen for a character like that. Trying to have both the Magic you want and enough money to buy those delicious pieces of low-Essence 'ware leads you to tank something important, priority-wise, in order to get the nuyen you need - like dumping your Attributes or, more commonly, your skills (or your metatype which, in turn, hurts your Attributes).

If you're going to play an Adept with effective bioware, you want to start as just an Adept, then pick up the 'ware during play with all of that money you're not spending on anything else because you're a fucking Adept.

>>51108198

>then pick up the 'ware during play with all of that money you're not spending on anything else because you're a fucking Adept.

That's kinda the problem. You have two advancement paths in Shadowrun. Mundanes hit a cap fairly early from Karma in their specializations, and still get the same Nuyen to spend on ware as Awakened. Awakened benefit from both paths for much longer.

Used Muscle Toner 3 is cheap and might as well have a staple gun come with it for combat adepts. A lot of the gene mods are cheap as hell for what they give, and barely cost any essence.

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>>51108129
>>Shadowrun actually discourages advancement within your specialty on three separate fronts you see
>Only for non-awakened

Awakened have a different situation going on due to how their advancement works. A street sam, rigger, decker, etc. can spend their nuyen getting better equipment which makes them better at their job, but it's prohibitive to spend their karma boosting their skills/attributes, so they use that to grow horizontally.

For Awakened people, there's not much they can spend their nuyen on to make them better at their magic shit, other than foci (which have an inbuilt limit) and reagents for spellcasters. Instead they spend nuyen on getting gear to make up for their deficiencies, while they pump karma into getting new spells, initiating, etc. The mage doesn't get better at magic (in terms of just getting more dice in magic skills) because they have the same exponential costs, but they get more flexibility in how they can use it.

>>51108166
Cool, good to know. Maybe they're the poor assholes sent to patrol the Bronx park after dark then seeing as it's meant to be chock-full of paracritters. That or the Bowery.

>>51108265
>A street sam, rigger, decker, etc. can spend their nuyen getting better equipment which makes them better at their job
It's prohibitive with nuyen too, actually. In order for your typical street samurai to advance, they need to first replace all of their Used 'ware with Alpha+ grade 'ware - gaining nothing from this other than the Essence room needed for other upgrades - THEN buy the actual improvements. For a Decker, they need to buy an entirely new deck - which is a several-hundred-thousand-nuyen investment that they'll never actually see in play.

Ironically, foci actually give Awakened a much easier time as far as advancement through throwing money at it is concerned, with mundies instead saving up giant bank accounts 'to get those upgrades' while never actually managing to accrue the amount they need over the course of actual play.

Like, no joke, the investment required for your typical decker or street samurai to meaningfully advance is over half a million nuyen spent replacing their old shit and buying new upgrades.

>>51108303
>Maybe they're the poor assholes sent to patrol the Bronx park after dark then seeing as it's meant to be chock-full of paracritters.
Yeah, that's much more like it. And remember, these guys are a healthy mix of corrupt, incompetent, and loose cannons, so criminals with any familiarity with who's which type will have a very easy time getting away with whatever they want if they know who's on patrol.

>>51108085
>>51108132

It seem appropriate to the setting, to be honest. Scaling costs is pretty realistic - it's harder to get better the better you are to start - and it fits the tone of the setting, both in a subtle sense of oppression and the less subtle idea of "stick your head out too far you get sniped". On the other hand, a lot of people (myself included) really like pushing a concept over mechanical optimization, and some concepts don't seem right without pushing something further than the system acts like it's meant to go.

Perhaps a houserule for extra reductions in karma cost for having a teacher would be appropriate? Make it into a sidequest of its own to find a pre-existing badass to mentor your character into a marginally better badass.

>>51108310
Why are your example sams using Used 'ware? I've never seen a character built that had Used outside of something small they had for background

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>>51108310
Getting new core equipment is expensive, true, but there's lots of related things you can spend your dosh on. Expensive ammo and modding the hell out of your guns, getting new programs and dongles, buying better armour and turning your ballistic mask into a suite of techogoodies, etc. Awakened folks can buy some of that as well, but that's them getting their horizontal advancement through nuyen instead of karma.


I always leave my heavily-cybered characters with a fair amount of essence left so I can add new 'ware directly on top, rather than replacing everything with a higher grade first

>>51108353
>Why are your example sams using Used 'ware?
Because it lets them start with more/better 'ware at chargen.

I've never not seen a character built without Used 'ware, especially where non-Cultured Bioware or particularly expensive cyberware is concerned.

And even without Used 'ware, the same rule holds true for Standard-grade 'ware that needs to be upgraded to shore up more Essence - or Alpha-grade ware that needs to be removed and replaced with something higher-Rating because going Alpha meant you had to start with lower-Rating 'ware for nuyen/Availability reasons.

>>51105781

But there is in "POWWWWEEEEEERRRR!", which is what we're talking about there.

>>51108380
>never not seen a character built without Used 'ware
Maybe you should invest in an energy drink.

I remember a few threads ago there was some discussion that the "increase vehicle Speed and Handling by rating" part of control rigs actually meant "increase vehicle Speed and Handling by rating for the purpose of limits on tests". Is there any errata or forum posts to back that up? Don't get me wrong, it seems like a sensible RAI to me, but I'd prefer to have errata or a forum to back me up if I ever get into a dispute about it. Alternatively if there is nothing to back it up, not even rules from previous editions, then I might just happily accept the idea that a control rig provides me a significant speed boost.

>>51108310
And RAW it's far easier for magic to run into prohibitive background counts. Shame people don't like playing with that stuff.

Does anyone have a good-quality picture of the Saeder-Krupp logo? Just got a new phone and was thinking it might be cool to get a custom case with a discreet Lofwyr head placed like an actual brand logo.

>>51108491
It was clarified by a dev on the forums - my GM showed it to me once, much to my disappointment. I don't have the link off the top of my head, though, and the forums are fucking garbage as far as finding anything on them are concerned.

So, good luck finding it if you want to know the truth, or enjoy your super-speed vehicles if you don't. Either way, have fun, omae.

>>51108587
My personal brand of ethics demands that I follow this ruling and tell others of it. I guess I'll be off to find that post.

>>51108514
It's the AMF problem from, well, D&D. At that point it doesn't really matter because you are, essentially, deleting the problem instead of actually meaningfully challenging it.

>>51108868
BGCs vary in power and effect, from minor debilitation to AMF, through to bonuses on specific magic or emotional content.

You can do far more to tailor an encounter through BGCs than just slap the awakened PCs for using their shit.

>>51107936
I prefer to think of it as them gaining those skills naturally over a period of time, and then basically only starting to get into Shadowrunning by the story proper.

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>>51107613

It's not that hard to build a big image folder, if you know the right places to look.

>>51109100
especially if you lurk the /srg/
my folder is a bit less than a year old and I already have around 3000 pics

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>>51109159

Lurking works, but I've also gotten a ton of fresh content by hunting down relevant tags on pixiv and various boorus.

Hey everyone, just giving an update for those interested: So far, my party isn't being complete dumbfucks, and are scouting out the place reasonably well. Game started just about at the start of the Legwork stage.

Nothing Greentext worthy yet, but if I get anything, I'll let you know.

>>51109890
Idle curiosity, what's your party lineup look like?

>>51109974

At the current:

We have a decker, a rigger, a mage, a physical adept, an infiltrator, and 2 general 'soldier' kinda characters (Good with guns, but not really too much else).

They have potential to pull this off, but there is also the potential to make it all go wrong.

>>51110064
am monitoring this thread, i was thinking about doing a hospital thing too

>>51110343

Good luck. Don't forget to include patients that might be armed as well.

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>>51108576
Here's one.

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>>51108310
Yeah I did the math once and replacing my alphaware cyberarms with all the enhancments, armor, customization and nifty stuff to delta would cost me little bit under half million. All this with no advancement other than freeing 0.6 essence.
Alternatives are 20k to get upgrade the armor in them and get +2 total or spend 60k to replace the bone lacing standart alluminium to beta titanium or get adapsin for that 0.3 essence hole.
You might say that the alternatives are not expensive at all but you would be wrong. After 6 session and paying expenses my net profit is staggering 5k nyuens and team owned Corsair Elysium in need of repair and cleaning.
I think next run I would go full Blood Raven and take everything that is not nailed to the floor.

>>51111157
how much does your GM pay you usually (per runner)?

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>>51111192
Around 4k to 5k. Could have had 18k by now but we choose to not deliver the cargo we were hired to protect(it turned out to be girls stuffed like sardines in the cargo hold) so we kept the boat but no cash. After that a month have passed so had to pay 6k for lifestyle and random cost for keeping the said boat.

>>51110590
I like it! Thanks. Do you (or anyone else) happen to know if that font is available somewhere?

>>51111363
how many runs do you usually do per month?
because that seems pretty low

>>51111779
No idea.
I just googled it.

>>51111157
What the hell does "going full Blood Raven" mean?

>>51111157
Ask your GM to use the upgrading rules from the missions FAQ.
They got integrated into the Krautrules and its pretty neat.
Upgrading costs is ([PriceOfNewWare]-[PriceOfoldWare])x1.2

>>51111915
Taking everything that's not nailed down, and bringing a crowbar for the rest.

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Does anyone find it really weird that the damage you take from ramming someone else or getting into a crash increases with the size of your vehicle? And that increasing the vehicle's armor does nothing to protect you in those situations? It's well documented that motorcycle crashes have a way higher fatality rate than car crashes, yet in Shadowrun getting into a crash in a Roadmaster that's had so much extra armor on it can't even take damage from a crash is more likely to kill you than getting into the same crash on a Dodge Scoot. I just feel like there's a rule somewhere they forgot to add in where your vehicle's ability to resist crash damage improves your own odds.

Also, there's no "'bug on the windshield" rule that states that you don't take any damage from ramming a target that is sufficiently smaller than your vehicle. Granted, that's common sense, but it would've been helpful if they provided a good rule of thumb for what "sufficiently smaller" means.

>>51112171
Just use the Body of the opposed Vehicle to calculate Damage done to yours.
Hell, you can even read the rules text this way.

>>51112240
Huh, that actually solves the ramming issues, but what about any crash that isn't ramming into something, like rolling down a steep embankment? Those deal a DV equal to Body with -6 AP.

>>51111915
40k reference to the Blood Raven Space Marine chapter that, for some reason has all of these crazy artifacts from other chapters that were quote "donated" or "found" during deployments.

In Dawn of War 2, you loot in the field during missions to get gear and ammo such. This includes stealing the capability to use orbital bombardments. You steal everything you use.

>>51111157
>see HRT
>kill them
>keep the bodies
>sell them for parts
Even at 10% of the price it's good.

>>51112845
Ah.
Not into 40k, so that would be why.

>>51113137
Omae I dont know what is gonna kill me first with this plan. The HTR buddies and subsequent teams or Jazz+Kamikaze cocktail I'll need to keep fighting them.

>>51106563
My gm does that, I'm nearly at 250 after maybe a dozen or so runs

Is it better to have 2 foci at level 3, or 3 foci at level 2? I'm mostly interested in sustaining ones

>>51111363
Damn, my GM gives us at least 15k each run. One time I got 50 by being clever.

How much karma and nuyen does everybody's GM give them per run?

>>51113959
how many spells do you want to sustain and which ones?

>>51114493
I usually give them 2-3 runs per month with 6-10k per run per person and around 8 karma per run per person

>>51114825
Do you hate your Mundanes that much?
Or are they all Awakened?

>>51114948
He's probably just sending them on easy runs. I'm looking at the rules for run pay, and the pay for any serious run should be starting at 9k a head if it's not a feel good run (which he might be doing with 8 karma a run).

>>51112171
Remember that CGL are shit at actually writing the rules, and GM fiat until things make sense. It's a miracle how much more sense SR5 makes as a system once you apply liberal amounts of "well we'll just do X", as long as your group agrees.

>>51114493
~10 Karma per Session=Run
~5-10k Nuyen per Runner per Run, sometimes a bit more, if we factor in shit like a Car we stole from a ganger (whose gang we brutally murdered, though sorta accidentally)

>>51115271
don't use that rules.
By these rules, riggers should go into debt for every single run. Try giving money twice the size of karma and up. 5 karma run? 10k+ per person it is.

>>51114493
It there's a lot of consistent in karma and pay for everyone else, I guess my GM is weird. We get consistently 7 karma and tens of thousands of nuyen per run.

>>51115500
>By these rules, riggers should go into debt for every single run.
Only if they lose a drone or two every run.

>>51115500
I thought the quintessential aspect of being a rigger was being poor as shit.

>>51115549
I thought that the quintessential aspect of being a rigger was having a drone on 10m of cable and laughing as your decker noised the place up and you suppressed like a bot.

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>>51107613
My home folder's around... 40-50,000 of general images, but I mostly just use new stuff from pixiv or whatever. When I'm shitposting from work I'm mostly limited to my wallpaper dropbox, which is ~2000.

So how stupid an idea would it be to grab four full cyberlimbs with no enhancements beyond custom agillity and strength, just for the sake of grabbing the "REDLINER" quality?

>>51115524
Not only drones. Lets say you have GMC Phoenix(because its sweat looking as fuck) and you have used it as escape vehicle for the run.
Now there was light combat and the Phonix took 2 boxes of damage. Now please pay 3,200k for parts. And god forbid form though run where it can take 5 boxes.

>>51115271
Actually I'm playing 4e, and from what I've seen so far it isn't so bad

>>51115728
Doesn't Redliner fuck your condition monitor? -1 box per limb or something?

>>51115728
It depends on your Will and your desire to get a Pain Editor later on.

Because all chrome is likely to get more than your fair share of shots, and even if you're not armored up enough to make it all stun, you're going to want Editor that anyway.

>>51115775

-1 per 2 limbs, but for being able to be a human with 11 agility and 11 strength, in theory, is a fair trade.

>>51115775
Net -1 per two full limbs yes.

>>51115776
So basically, only do it if a pain editor is in the cards down the line got it.

>>51115794
Was... Actually going to try and fit this on an oni somehow because i like messing around with chumnmer. Though the human angle is pretty neat too.

>>51115794
>not being a Troll with 20 strength

Is it absolutely necessary to have Tailored Pheromones for a Face?

What are the recommended must-have drones for a drone-focused rigger? I seem to have misplaced my list. I think it was something like this:

4 mini rotodrones to provide sensor overwatch
2 larger rotodrones with airburst grenade launchers for suppression
1 ground-based drone (can sub a rotodrone) with a decent AR for boots-on-ground with your team
That one blimp drone with chameleon coating and a silenced sniper rifle to stealthily take down things.

Related: is it possible to use a drone to deploy explosives via the Demolitions skill?

>>51115813
Not only do it, but note that you're going to be a combat heavy, and once that gets out, you'll be a priority target.

Not as much as an unknown mage, or one with a rep for mind control, but the skill means that you're going to be a target.

Hell, just look at how much you can make others suck by rolling your automatics (or favored suppressive fire capable weapon category) die pool a few times and see how many dice the enemies lose.

And if you're also fast enough to get multiple turns over them, wait for them to be out of turns and then fire normally.

>>51115813

Hey, oni ( >>51115841 or troll) could work out too. It gives you +1 per 2 cyberlimbs, regardless of your cyberlimbs' current stats, and ignoring the typical Augmented Maximum.

>>51115744
>2 boxes
That might not actually cost you anything but time if you're a good enough mechanic. Fixing a car without using replacement parts is only a -4 penalty per box you didn't buy spares for, and drags it out to 1 check per day. The threshold is only equal to the number of damaged boxes, so if you had 12 dice to start with you could probably repair it for free in a day or two.

>>51116077
I mean yeah but at some point your car would become just epoxy and faith.

>>51116261
Rigger do you even weld?

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>>51116287
fine
weld, epoxy and faith covered by paint

>>51116386
Implying that and your sick skills behind the wheel isn't all you need.

>>51116386
chummer, don't see it as losing structure
see it as trimming
you don't need much on it to be fast

reduce
simplify
optimize

the shittiest rigger with a good car won't win against a great rigger with a shitty car

>>51116454
you are right
if I can break the sound barrier on Dodge Scoot I can break it on anything

>>51116511
>the shittiest rigger with a good car won't win against a great rigger with a shitty car

Play a rigger with a Dodge Scoot, report findings.

>>51116573
Excuse me, what? I need to hear this explained.

>>51116386
Hey man, there is 0 mechanical difference between fixing a car with or without replacement parts other than time and dice, so I just saved you 3200 nuyen. In fact, I'm about to save you a little more: scavenge the junkyard for replacement parts. It's not free, but it's cheaper than buying new parts from the corps, and you'll even get some money back for selling your broken parts.

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>>51116588
Part 1. Didn't combine them cause I'm lazy.

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>>51116647
Part 2.

>>51116588
If you want the less slightly mechanically dodgy way, get a spirit with the Movement power. Force needed, oh say 4 but you can get away with both more and a little less.

Use Movement on vehicle. Laugh.

>>51116647
>>51116661
It was CGL being dumbfucks, though, since their intent was that Speed was increased only for the purpose of limits.

>>51116661

Holy shit, I've been saved. Strangely good feeling.

>>51116647
>>51116661
This is amazing. And just think of the possibilities for airplanes and similar things with higher speed.

>>51116670
just to warn you what this chummer is suggesting may brake the speed of light barrier

>>51116721
>this chummer is suggesting may brake the speed of light barrier
>may brake the speed of light barrier
>brake
THERE AIN'T NO BRAKES ON THIS RIDE CHUMMER
THE RIDE
NEVER
FUCKING
ENDS

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>>51116708
calculation resulted in piercing over few thousand earths if Ram was used at top speed

>>51116780
Actually, if you do go super-light, then it could have ended before it began....

At least if magic wasn't being involved.

>>51116721

Actually, someone had a physicist friend actually do the math on this. here's the reddit story: https://www.reddit.com/r/gametales/comments/1nbjhe/xpostshadowrun_everyone_is_dead_san_francisco_is/

>>51113959
Which spells do you want to sustain and at what Force? This is a 'get the tool you need for the job you're doing' kind of question.

>>51110064
How are you running a game with 7 people? It's hard enough with 4, never mind being halfway to Ocean's Eleven.

>>51116799

the calculation was over 670,000 earths, assuming earth had a consistent structural average of Blast Bunkers all the way through.

>I don't mean to keep riding this out, but, a buddy of mine has a Hellhound that can go Mach 15. The core rulebook has ramming speeds that only go up to 501+ at x10 body, but, he did the math to see how it would work if it kept scaling. And he did the math of how hard his semi truck would hit if hit something.

>The math came to 2.1475025e+15 Physical damage. at -6 AP

>So... barrier rules state that the math is for 10cm at a time. The earth is 1,275,600,000 centimeters thick (I expected a bigger number, honestly) So, we could reduce that to 127,560,000 instances (the number of centimeters divided by 10 centimeters per instance).

>Now, lets be very generous and assume the earth is entirely made of hardened material (blast Bunkers), and give the earth 16 structure, and 32 armor. that drops it down to 26 armor, for the sake of Math here.

>the average roll for a 26 armor is 8.666 successes. but thats be VERY generous and say that its an even 9 successes on average.

>This would, effectively, reduce the damage dealt by this high speed monster by 1,148,040,000 P

>That would then leave the earth with, effectively, a raw structure/HP of 2,040,960,000

>If I did my math wrong here (and I very well could have), this truck of his, if it were to follow a loop-de-loop that then drove him directly downward into the ground at his full speed of mach 15, would not only destroy the earth, but crash with enough force to destroy 673409.37598 earths lined up in a row.

>>51116847

We're all good friends, and this is far from our first rodeo. We've been playing a while and so we all know what is going on. that's the most important part.

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>>51111363
>could have had more than three times your current cash

>instead decided not to complete a job and maintain ownership of the massive money pit that is owning a boat

theresyourproblem.trid

>>51116799
Guess thats how we will finally manage to pull one over on old Lofwyr then.

>>51115854
Nothing is 'absolutely necessary' for any archetype, but it's so good and so affordable for what ye does that you're deliberately gimping yourself by not taking it.

>>51116647
>320 meters per turn
>equates to 384 kmph
Handy. I never remembered exactly how many seconds a turn was, but now I can calculate the speed of any vehicle.

>>51116950

1 turn is 3 seconds.

Really makes you rethink those firefights where an entire can of whoopass is opened up in 3 seconds, and a whole encounter goes from the start of the fight to dead. and 3-6 seconds

>>51116903
>he doesn't know
Assassination by cars is the tried-and-true method of taking Lofwyr down in 4e, it's half the reason they took away stats for greats in 5e.

>>51116896
Listen here. There was a choice
We could have complete the job and protected the smugglers from the coastal guard and thus securing us few more jobs with the Vory leader, get paid and get some contact.
Or free the 16 girls that were gonna be sold as slaves and in this way keep the boat, cost the vory bigshot between 4 and 16 millions, keep the rocket launcher and get ourselfs in the mess we are right now.
In our defense our other vory friend told us that they had the leader and the dutch have made agreement to not trade with people in this city.

>>51117082
I'll gladly admit to not knowing shit, my experiences with shadowrun so far are restricted to the returns vidya games, lurking here for about a month, reading most of the 5th ed rulebooks and jerking around in chummer.

But seriously, that is f*cking hilarious.

>>51116977
Yeah, it's also making me think about car speeds of Shadowrun. By math, you need a Speed 5 car to reach, let alone exceed, highway speed anywhere in Canada other than Prince Edward Island and Nunavut, and it looks like it's the same story in America and Mexico. Let that sink in for a moment: A Speed 4 ground vehicle can only reach highway speeds in a few select areas, and anything with Speed 3 or less can't even come close to highway speeds anywhere.

>>51117158
Oh and also, at the same time any ground vehicle with Speed 8 or greater is capable of breaking the sound barrier. Aircraft break the sound barrier at "lower" Speed ratings because they are faster for their speed rating than ground craft; rotorcraft are 3 times faster and only need Speed 6 to break the sound barrier, while anything with jets is 4 times faster and only need speed 5.

>>51117233
Wait a sec, I goofed. Rotorcraft need Speed 7, jets need Speed 6.

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Is everyone punks in your games or do you have normalish looking people in your games?

>>51117550
Define 'punks'.

>>51117550
I absolutely insist that everyone in my group be punks and retain the right to geek anyone who doesn't meet my standards.

>>51117550
the only member of my runners that doesn't dress normally is the Human Face/Social Infiltrator
Focused on Stage Magicians. Dresses in a white suit. Original Idea was to dress in a white suit with a top hat and cloak (all white) with a small bird on the shoulder
I made her reconsider after I explained that this is VERY OBVIOUS and would incur a Distinctive Style Quality

Yekka, any plans for Chummer to allow separation of negative metagenetic qualities-as-negative-character qualities and negative metagenetic qualities-as-payment-for-SURGE on the same character?

So hypothetically or whatever, who would own/be implanted with a grade 3 gammaware Move-by-wire system?

>>51117819
No. Be less of a furry and/or point me at RAW that you can have both.

>>51118025
I got your RAW right here, pal.
*unzips dick*

>>51117802
I dig it. Zatanna in white? Give her some karma and enjoy her bleeding in it.

>>51117898
Somebody with money to burn.

Alternatively, a corp project.

>>51117802
>Dresses in a white suit. Original Idea was to dress in a white suit with a top hat and cloak (all white) with a small bird on the shoulder
Did she also think of a monocle?

>>51118127
>and enjoy her bleeding in it.
Was that a menstruation joke or are you just referring to how everyone is going to try to geek her first?

>>51118127
>>51118172
>Zatanna in white
funnily enough that character is far less zatanna
and far more david copperfield
because while the player is a girl the character is a guy

>>51118153
not sure but entirely possible

>>51118229
>because while the player is a girl the character is a guy
So he's Zatara, the father of Zatanna, in white. Unless he's young in which case he's Zachary Zatara, the cousin of Zatanna, in white.

Is there any truly good reason to not make a deal with a dragon?
They think in timelines that are removed from humans by generations. You really shouldn't have that much to worry about if you need to do something for one of them. Besides, when you're actually at the point when you're in a position to deal with a dragon(meaning they actually find the puny mortal worthy of attention), is it not safer to avoid walking away from them?

>>51118229
Oh yeah, Kaito Kid. That's my jam.

>>51118318
It depends.
I guess that's the point. You'd never have any idea what's a good idea or not, so try not to get involved even into a situation where you're just walking away

>>51118318
>Is there any truly good reason to not make a deal with a dragon?
Think of how little the CEO of an AAA corp other than Sader-Krupp values the feelings, well-being, hopes, dreams and life of his lowliest wageslave. Then consider that a dragon values your feelings, well-being, hopes, dreams and life even less than that.

>>51118318
Dragons are ambivalent to humanity at best. Whereas the backstabbing executive still has some semblance of human morality and empathy, the dragon does not. The dragon cannot be arsed to value the lives of the here-today-gone-tomorrow lifespan of humans.

Has anyone here actually dealt with a dragon? I bet that'd be an interesting story.

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>>51118474
Read the SR storytime
>inb4 Why not post the updated version

>>51114741
>>51116827
I mostly rely on manipulation and illusion because I'm a burglar, but plan B is usually Reflexes and an automatic. I guess between the two I use illusion the most, manipulation is for the occasional Levitate or Magic Fingers

>>51108336
I've house rulled nstruction to reduce karma and time required.

>>51108380
My players never purchased used ware, the opposite in fact they splurged on alpha grade fairly often. Typically abused drugs until getting initiative booster in game to cover the obvious hole.
Then again I gave much more than the "recommended" run rewards

>>51117106
It wasn't the wrong choice morally. But when you fuck yourself over like that, not only burning bridges with a potential future employer, but not even doing the original run (trashing your rep) and for some reason keeping the boat afterwards instead of flogging it to the nearest coyote, you shouldn't complain about money.

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>>51118172
Nah I meant more of a geek the noob in all white because it's probably a mage.

>>51118310
Neeerd!

>>51118708
funnily enough he HATES magic
not through a quality, but due to his background
he basically sees magic as a disease that has to be eradicated
I am seriously considering giving him Prejudiced(Common(Magic), Biased) and having some subplot go around him being contacted by a anti-magic terrorist group

>>51118474
The game got very pink mohawk but it involved a highway chase through Seattle and a stolen military APC. They didn't 'deal with it' but they escaped with it's eggs so... win?

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>>51118955
>dragons now motivated to hunt down party

>not just this specifically wronged dragon, but it's mate, the Loremaster charged with safeguarding all dragons, and any scaly who knows this would be a bad precedent to set

>win

>>51119088
>Letting fear of dragons get to you
On balance, off balance, doesn't matter I'm better then they are. And if you don't believe you make it against a scaly furnace, just remember that the cream will rise to the top, and overcome the worldwide corporate federation of amigos and foes led by said scaly furnaces. Shadowrunners can take 'em on, nobody does it better

Nobody does it better!

>>51119148
>On balance, off balance, doesn't matter I'm better then they are.
>last words of troll eaten by dragon

>>51119148
That's right! Dragons should be coming to ME for deals, on their knees, in full dragon form, PLEADING for my assistance.

And I will tell them - No.

Fuck dragons!

Is is possible to make use of Latent Dracomorphosis at all... As a Mystic Adept with a general focus on combat?

>>51119169
>Implying dragons would want dermal plates caught in their teeth

A quick shishkebab on the claws if he feels like getting personal.

>>51119214
you don't like your food crunchy?

>>51119211
Latent Dracomorphosis won't be too great unless you wanted part of the package.

Just ask the GM how much of the full package he's going to have you pay in creation (since less than all is an option in the text), and adjust from there.

>>51119211
Oh right, and is it worthwhile to have MysAd at any priority lower than A, or should I make sure to prioritize that at all times?

>>51119214
I didn't say eaten alive, I just said eaten. Probably had the dermal plates taken out by the same servants who marinated him in a mix of balsamic vinegar, extra virgin olive oil, freshly ground pepper, kosher sea salt, various awakened herbs and the tears of his loved ones before putting him on the rotisserie.

>>51119247
I was honestly only looking for a small slice of the draconic pie, and also to toss a free plot hook at my GM.

>>51115935
>ignoring the typical Augmented Maximum
Where does it say that?

>>51117158
It can go normal highway speeds. Its in-combat maneuvering speed shouldn't be extrapolated into its traveling speed.

>>51119315
Then it might be, depending on how the GM decides to slice up the benefits you want.

And of course, what the benefits you want are. The hook's nice too, I as as a regular GM.

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>>51119280
Depends heavily on if your GM is using the errata'd values for MysAd PP costs, if he'll let you buy them after character creation, and if how much karma he'll dock you for trying to unlock dracomorphosis straight away. Given how karma-intensive a mystic adept is, you've got approximately zero chance of ever managing to pay off the whole debt without GM shenanigans.

>>51119088
Well, the game stopped there and it wasn't that the Shadowrunners did anything to the eggs, per se. They found out that they were the patsies for awakened critter stealing culminating in said eggs and tried to steal them for themselves to get back at the people who made them patsies only for said dragon to attack the people with it's eggs (i.e. them) in the middle of the escape. Knowing the group they were probably gonna try and sell the eggs or, possibly, make a really big omelet.

>>51118552
Pick up foci of whatever Force you usually sustain the spells in question at.

I'm thinking of making (or finding?) flashcards for common rolls/actions for new players. Has anybody done it? I'm a little worried that with the quantities of rules in the game they'll spend too much time fucking around trying to find the right card. Any thoughts at all?

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Say I wanted a combat monster designed to destroy supernatural monsters.
What would they be? adept? street sam?
I want to make a guy who would be at home in chicago fucking up bugs or in a sewer purging ghouls.

>>51119912
I do that personally for my characters before/as we prep for the table. Stuff like dodge pool, attack pools, commonly used skill pools. Its helpful, but its no replacement for understanding the game itself.

>>51119916
Adepts are probably the best option for this because of Weapon Foci and rolling a bucket of combat dice, but some supernatural creatures (I'm including toxic and dark spirits) will live in background counts, which Street Samurai ignore.

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>>51119912
Hayek Sheets. Pastebin. Newfag.

Add some verbs to that, I'm fresh out.

>>51119970
>background counts

That's when you load up with Kamikaze and APDS. Adept is always the superior choice if you want to fuck up spirits. Paracritters and Infected don't require Weapon Foci to bring down, but it doesn't hurt to be really good at melee when they want to scratch your eyes out.

>>51120025
>>51119970
Can you be good at gun and sword simultaneously as an adept?
you know, different tools as the hunt requires.

>>51119970
thanks

>>51119976
yup, and thanks

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>>51120042
Yes, provided you don't fuck up your skills by picking Priority D or something. Automatics or Longarms would be my recommendation; Automatics let you spray bullets around, which can be handy, while Longarms lets you have a sniper for most situations and a shotgun for the rest.

>>51119331

that was always implied from what I saw. Otherwise, why on earth would you sacrifice 6 condition boxes to save a few thousand nuyen?

>>51120100
>Spraying bullets VS shooting a few strong bullets
I am not sure which is more effective on the supernatural. That is a pretty wide umbrella.

>>51120126
Because cyberlimbs only go up to 3, and you want to go to 4.

>>51120136
You don't have to chose; there are a few shotguns that you can fire full-auto.

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Question

I'm running a 4th Edition game soon, and on the offchance there anything in the 5th Books I could use, I started perusing them. I noticed that the damage values for Guns are considerably higher then in 4th, and in looking, it doesn't seem like the rules for Condition Tracks are any different (still 8+Body or Will divided by 2).

Did they make the gunplay much more deadly? Or is there something I'm missing?

Also, assuming there is no real differences, would you recommend using the 5th Edition damage values in 4th?

switching to 5th isn't an option

>>51120169

is +1 agility and Strength worth -6 physical condition boxes and 10 karma?

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>>51120136
Personally I'm a big fan of lots of RC and getting the biggest Longarm you can, and hoping things work out in the first round of 4 passes. But other people like being more balanced with automatics. Also >>51120203, but as a rule it's a lot more expensive to get high-end snipers and the really good shotguns compared with an assault rifle. You also don't have to carry two rifle-sized weapons around for different situations, and can have a machine pistol for a concealed weapon, which is good for actual shadowrunning.

>>51119453
Errata? Was there anything official ever released?

>>51120251
How Mysads went from 2 karma/PP to a whopping 5 karma.

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http://pastebin.com/nDuG0bwg

Still got 39k to spend. Any ideas?

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>>51120207
5e is way more deadly than 4e. I personally wouldn't backport but I also wouldn't play 4e again

>>51120267
>http://pastebin.com/nDuG0bwg
Should perhaps explain why you're a prototype transhuman.

>>51120207
Higher armour ratings balance it out, mostly. Accuracy limits also mean that you don't usually see holdouts doing 30P damage, but in general a character that gets hit will go down in a shot or two at most.
>>51120251
http://cdn.shadowruntabletop.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/E-CAT2700E_SR5-Errata.pdf?4713c7
PP for MysAds cost 5 karma, can only be bought during chargen per RAW, or by giving up a metamagic during initiation.

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>>51120366

Good to know.

I was considering, at the very least, backporting the Shotgun damage to 4th to make Shotguns more attractive. I have a player who loves shotguns and never played Shadowrun before - he deflated when I told him how shit Shotguns are
>same damage as assault rifles
>using shot to hit more targets just makes their armor better
The only benefit I can see is that most (even autofire) Shotguns are R grade gear, which means you can carry them around without issue, while just all Assault Rifles are F grade.

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>>51120236

If you're still in chargen, I have a minmax bone to pick

>Prototype Transhuman
>Unarmed Damage Value: 9

You are like little baby.

Get Bone Density Aug and striking calluses.

>>51120414
I houserule the 9-11P Shotguns to do +1 damage, F shotguns do 13P, and the Krime Spree does 12P because its R.

>>51120417

I'm not arguing any of those, just that i'm 99% sure that Redliner was designed to bypass the typical Augmented Maximum.

>>51120484
Since it doesn't say it's different in any way I have always regarded it as a standard augmentation bonus.

>>51120347
Secret aztechnology research project to grow THE ULTIMATE SANGRE Y ACERO LUCHADORE MASTER

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Does anyone have canon art of Hobgoblins? I don't really have a good idea of how one would look.

>>51120484
No, it doesn't. The big benefit is that you can save a ton of nuyen and go straight to your augmented maximum with cyberlimbs.

>>51120347
Volunteered with special interest groups to make a better fighter.
There is absolutely no reasoning I could give you that won't be contrived and overdone at this point. Every goddamn corp and underworld crime family that has two nuyen to rub together has a super-soldier project in the works.

>>51120484

Oh fuck I responded to the wrong person. This was meant for the Luchador.

Also no it doesn't bypass maximum, it GETS YOU to Maximum.

I don't have it infront of me and I don't really remember, but I think without Redliner you can only reach 9. It's totally worth it to hit 10 - just offset it with "Tough as Nails" and you're good.

Besides, as a proper sam with proper armored limbs, most shit goes to stun anyway, so it's moot

>>51120126
less about saving nuyen, although that is important with cyberlimbs, that shit's expensive, but about saving precious capacity. Also reaching the max augmentation of +4, can't do it otherwise.

>>51120546

>>51120417
>here, this is meant for you

Also Prototype Transhuman Luchador? You bet your ass that Aztech would work on that shit.

Make it funny. Say that it was some exec's back pocket project because he wanted to make things more interesting.

>>51120546
Doesn't have to be Shakespeare, but you should acknowledge it. Also Prototype transhuman isn't something that you can volunteer for, the whole point it the bioware was genetically spliced into you in vitro. You were born with it, and thus it's part of you and costs no essence.

>>51120484

Strictly speaking, Cyberlimbs are already able to break the Augmented maximum as they currently exist.

People regularly confuse and mingle the definitions of 'Racial maximum' and 'augmented maximum.' Racial maximums are just how high your stats can go (or how low they go) without augmentations. The actual rule for augmented maximum is that you can not increase your attributes more than 4 points above your current attribute rating.

In an extreme case (that few GMs will allow), if you have a human with 1 agility and 1 strength, and you have 9 str. and 9 agi arms and legs... well, each of those are giving you +8 to those arms and legs, which is WELL above the 'augmented maximum' of +4. Redliner would let you get an additional +1 per pair (to a max of +2), going up to 11 agi and 11 str.

Redliner doesn't break the rules of the augmented maximum because cyberlimbs were never subjected to them to begin with.

You get 4 cyberlimbs with redliner, you get +2 to the strength and agility of those cyberlimbs, regardless of just how high their current stat was. you also get a total of -6 condition boxes (a net loss of -2 after accounting for the +4 the cyberlimbs give you)

>>51120675

Wrong. Augs do not INCREASE. They REPLACE. You ignore your bodily stats when you use cyberlimbs and appropriate skill check. Unless you're averaging, in which case your body stat is going to be a net loss.

Redliner gets you to maximum, not over. At least in the case of human.

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>>51120610
You're right, I suppose I should. I kind of like >>51120563. Perhaps she was a pet project of some executive who's hobbies included pit fighting.

>>51120417
I completely overlooked those. Thanks, chummer!

>>51119916
Adepts.

Attacks with Killing Hands or Weapon Foci ignore spirits' immunity to normal weapons, are immune to Regeneration-based healing, and can be used to hit projecting or otherwise Astral beings. They can also pick up Astral Perception as a power to detect and analyze magical bullshit, and to target immaterial beings.

Street samurai are arguably better all-around combatants than Adepts, but Adepts are much better at specifically killing magical bullshit.

A mage with a weapon focus makes a solid contender too.

Also, you'll specifically want to be an elf or a dwarf, because you use Charisma instead of Strength when hitting astral baddies, and Strength instead of Charisma written hitting material baddies. Decide which you prefer to be somewhat better at - I'd pick dwarf for physical personally, and better Willpower-based spell resistance, and the Dwarven Body and disease resistance for possible exposure to HMHVV; the list goes on - and go with that.

>>51120236
+2 Strength and Agility. Keep in mind the nuyen it saves you from not having to buy those extra points.

And I'd say yes, it's worth it, because someone with four cyberlimbs is guaranteed to have so much armor that the only damage they'll ever take is Stun anyway.

>>51120549
>>51120805
>stun isn't a problem
Looks like they've never had to deal with a GM who exploited that.
God damn. I still remember the time I had to make my Sam strip in the middle of a gunfight because he would get pulverized by stun damage because his armor was too damn high and he needed to actually incur some physical damage.

>>51120539
I have a picture I'm using for one, but it's nsfw.