Why does chaos always job to he tyranids

>>51099489
Tyranids are so boring though.

>>51099609
ehh they are just cool for different reasons. for example being the only race thats lore is written in 3rd person.
but they obviously have their problems
>swarmlord

tyranids fight necrons then move on. necrons assert ownership of the galaxy, they wont let bugs take their shit

If a hive tendril of even standard size collided with abbadons black crusade, it would fuck it up completely. And I'm almost certain if the tyranids made it to cadia or terra they could overrun their defenses. I doubt even the beast waaagh or emperor era imperium would be able to defeat the tyranids, only the fully united necrons really stand a chance. Tyranids truly are the biggest threat

>>51099489
Nah, Tyranids are just a sideshow race.
Chaos is the greatest threat.

If teh mobile infanty got spess ships they could shoot the bugs liek in starship troopers: 3 heros of the federation. Jonny rico cold team uo with the emperor and be made corral of the empire and be fight

>>51099489
In the case of the Iron Warriors, that's just suppose to be filler. The only purpose for the IW's there is to show them, being led by someone pompous, getting btfo in an attempt to show how deadly the tyranids are.

Tyranids job to just about every faction. The only ones I think need a good stomping in the fluff more are Chaos and Necrons.

>>51100221
Anyone have the fluff of iron warriors getting SWARMED by tyranids? I saw it posted in a thread a few days back

>>51099673

what kind of tasteless hack finds the swarmlord objectionable?

>>51099489
Because Chaos smells

>>51100517
People who think it doesn't make sense. They have a point, why dosent the hive mind always have the swarmlords tactical ability?

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40k racebaiting threads.
> you mad chaosboi?

Where'd the cadia thread go?

>>51099489
>tyranids clearly the bigger threat to the galaxy as a whole
Are we really sure about it? Of course, there might be much more of them, like the latest Hive Fleet being just scouting but do we know for sure? For all we know that might be it.

And we know that daemons are pretty much infinite. We know the threat that Traitor Astartes are. We know that there's also the enemy within aspect of Chaos.

>>51100176
criminally underrated post

>>51099609
There are two kinds of people: Herohammer fags that don't understand the appeal of Tyranids, and war scholars that understand the appeal of Tyranids.

One of them likes OMG EPIC SPESHUL CHARACTER ANIME DUELS like in the shitty GW books, and the other is has a more mature appreciation of the setting, which is best represented by the significantly better FW books.

>>51100113
>Carnac butthurt

>>51100517
The ones who think anything about the swarmlord is acceptable are the ones with no fucking taste, anon.

Best Tyranid lore was pre-Cruddace. Newfags go home or download the old PDFs and find out what you've been missing.

I'm really starting to hate the phrase btfo...

>>51099489
Rofl

Implying the Tyranids aren't the ultimate jobbers

>>51100517
>implying the swarmlord isn't a betrayal of the core ideal of the tyranids.

>>51102597
When other factions job, it fucks them over in the long run. When tyranids job, they adapt and come back even scarier. Read the shield of Baal books, the tyranids actually don't job, and manage to utterly annihalate a very well defended star system in just 3 days. Several times during the books they note that the tyranid invasion this time was far worse than ever before, adapting in ways the imperium couldn't anticipate.

>>51102597
Tyranids only job when Cruddace is writing them. Abaddon's recent failure on Cadia cemented his status as 40k's ultimate jobber.

>>51104780
its ok the tau will always defeat the nids because they outadapt them

Because in the end, the Tyranids will job against Chaos. In the end, everyone will job against Chaos.

WELCOME TO 40K AGE OF SIGMAR MOTHERFUCKERS

>>51105141
The tau would be utterly fucked if they faced the tendril of leviathan that invaded he cryptus system, they've never had to face any of those new creatures before. Plus, the gorgon was a very small hive fleet and didn't actually get out adapted. The tau lost tons of ground and things only turned around when their fleets and the imperium fleets destroyed or chased away much of their bioships. Without the reproductive capabilities of the ships, they were forestry much limited to gaunts and other small simple forms that could be spawned on planet. Without their previous adaptive capabilities and having to face the very different weapons and tactics of the tau and imperium, they were finally defeated.

>>51105280
except they did get out-adapted, its specifically stated so that this fleet, which was super best at adaptation, got out adapted

Stop lying and kill yourself already Carnac

>>51099489
Tyranids jobbing Chaos?

Tyranids lost more battles to Chaos daemons than the other way around. Tyranids are hard countered by daemons.

>>51105314
That's not Carnac. I am Carnac and I agree.

The latest Nid codex says Gorgon had more adaptive ability than any other Hive Fleet before and since. Leviathan doesn't even approach the adaptability of Gorgon.

I would like to thank you for parroting my talking point and supporting the point of view that Tyranids suck.

tyranids wipe everything.
chaos dies because no more emotions.
necrons kill tyranids because tyranids leave them alone (no biomass)
or just repopulate after tyranids leave

>>51105349
fuck off Carnac

>>51105314
>Carnac
>ever saying anything that isn't a spew of hatred about the tyranids
Learn how to use "le Carnac may may" correctly before you look this retarded again, newfag

>>51105315
Really? Such as when? Because the only 2 times I can recall them fighting ended in a stalemate that was never resolved because the imperium enacted exterminatis, and a clear tyranid victory on shadowbrink. The tyranids are actually a hard counter to daemons, and were able to adapt to all of their reality warping tricks thrown at them in a matter of days. Shadow of the warp+ not having any souls + being able to adapt to daemon trickery like no other race can = a pretty hard counter to daemons. And that's without any of the new developments from shield of Baal and forge world

>>51102288
>There are two kinds of people: People who disagree with me, and and elitist assholes.
FTFY

>>51105371
No, no, continue parroting my talking points. Do my job for me.

>>51105353
Chaos doesn't need emotion to exist, though.

>>51102288
>lost more battles to Chaos than won them
>A single Chaotic event did more damage to the Imperium than years of Tyranid noming
>the Black Crusades did more damage to the Imperium than the Hive Fleets that's why they are always top priority
>Tyranids avoid warpstorms and the galaxy is being ravaged by warp storms in the End Times with the Eye of Terror threatening to expand all over the galaxy
>Tyranids were out-attrition'ed by the Admech in the funniest way possible. The implication that a Forgeworld has more material and flesh than a tendril of a major hive fleet

Sideshow forever!

>>51105404
To name a few.

Multiple times in the Daemonkin codex.

An event in the DE Coven codex ends with daemons mass spawning aboard the hive ships of a Leviathan tendril and then slowly tearing it apart.

Shadowbrink is unique since daemons lost their momentum due to being gradually drained of power and dtarved due to lack of nearby mortals. Prior to this they were wrecking the Tyranids to the point the Tyranids had to go to range since they cannot outfight daemons in melee.


This no longer going to be an issue in the End Times since the walls of reality that's keeping the daemons out are thin as ice and are breaking beneath the rage and laughter of the Chaos Gods

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>>51105463
Forget to add that Chaos had rotted the Imperium to the core. The underbelly of the Imperium is tainted beyond recovery and in the End of days what Chaos has planted is bearing fruit.

The subversion of the Chaos Cults of the Imperium far outstrips the genestealer cults, and has far deadlier implications.

>>51105463
i don't want to be this way

>>51105513
>Prior to this they were wrecking the Tyranids to the point the Tyranids had to go to range since they cannot outfight daemons in melee.
Its almost as if they learned from their losses, adapted, and changed their tactics to have the advantage in battle. Literally how every tyranid battle goes. They get wrecked in the beginning, adapt, and come back better. Gorgon was a unique example in that they had the most precise adapting, to the point where they could almost negate entire weapon systems. But fastest, most specialized adaptation doesn't nessecarily mean best. The adaption displayed by leviathan in the cryptus system had much bigger long term implications as to what they can do in future battles, and was overall better than "lol immune to pulse rifles" level adaptation.

>>51105625
They didn't adapt in the cases they lost in or not enough to make a difference. Anyway...

>Despite its relatively small size, Hive Fleet Gorgon posed a dire threat to the unsuspecting Tau. Gorgon still possessed ships enough to overwhelm the Tau space fleets patrolling the borders of their territory, and could unleash untold waves of warrior-organisms to overrun a planet. It was not because of its numbers, though, that Hive Fleet Gorgon would prove so dangerous. More so than any hive fleet encountered before or since, Gorgon possessed an ability to rapidly adapt to new circumstances on a biological level, emerging from every lost battle with a new clutch of organisms perfectly suited to overcome the foes that had defeated their predecessors. It would come to define the very nature of the war against the Tau: adapt or die.

-Tyranid dex 6th ed


Leviathan and Gorgon are both adaptive. The difference between them is that Gorgon did it faster and better. What screwed Gorgon was its size and its lack of sufficient biomass to quickly adapt the bigger nids.

If lets say Naga or a tendril of Leviathan in that time frame. The Tyranids would most likely be outadapted by the Tau scientists.

Is it no wonder then that the Tau have taken cared of numerous splinters of Behemoth and Kraken with relative ease.

>>51105542
I enjoy you, Carnac. Never change.

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>>51099489
>>cadian general and his forces that BTFO chaos for over 180 years got wiped out in less than 3 days by tyranids
More like the hive fleet got BTFO in 3 days.

>>51105809
>98% of the cadians wiped out in 3 days
>tempestus scions wiped out to a man
>over a whole company worth of blood angels killed
>mephiston out of commission
>Tens of thousands of sisters killed, including their leader
>every planet except the necron tomb world consumed by tyrnaids.
General Dhrost was a highly respected cadian general who lead forces on and around his home world for over 180 years against chaos. Even with a sizable army, a well funded native army backing him up, and a trio of alpha level psykers, he was only able to beat the first 2 waves of tyranids before being absolutely annihilated by swarms of synapse creatures.

The tyranids only "lost" due to a very specific set of conditions, and even then the hive fleet wasn't fully destroyed. immediately after the shockwaves stop, tyranids are already pulling themselves out of the rubble and begining their feast anew. The only thing they achieved is beating the fleet down to something that the heavy defenses of baal might be able to stand up to. If they didn't wipe out a chunk of the fleet, they would have stood absolutely no chance at all. And its stated throughout that the necrons and blood angels never had a chance at a military victory, the entire book was just a series of missions spanning a few hours. they fucked off before the tyranids could adapt yet again.

>>51105915
It's okay it's a tie. The Cadians destroyed Hive Fleet Scarabus without losing a single company. So that makes up for this.

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>>51105940
The tyranids continue to get better

>>51105975
Then explain why the Tyranids didn't recognize the daemons in Shadowbrink and had no previous tactical knowledge to draw upon when fighting them.

Take note that Leviathan and other Hive Fleets had fought in numerous events against daemon armies. One of the recent ones is the M'kar one which featured the same fleet in Shadowbrink and had the Tyranids fighting daemons in war above a daemon world.

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>>51105915
Are you talking about the massive hive fleet that was on course to Baal? The one whose only defining trait for over a decade was "Will probably wipe out The BA and all their successors unless an absolute miracle happens"? And you're isolating one tiny bit of an ablative faction to use as proof of "chaos" being shat on?

Holy shit, m8. That's like me pointing out the Sororitas leader, whom has purged heretics for X centuries valiantly only to die to nids. Clearly all heretics are jobbers then, amirite?

No, you mongrel. The damage done by that hive fleet has absolutely no relevance to anything else in the setting - not even other nid hive fleets. It's a plot device that was way over hyped and now has an inconsistent power level compared to the rest. It's no different than Shadowsun's plot armor killing the Raven Guard Chapter Master, who had successfully hunted and killed countless leaders of every faction imaginable. Is tau then glorious master race, and everyone else simple jobbers? No. It's "PLOT" and nothing more.

The dark eldar captured an entire planet in the middle of its tyrannification, with the full might of a hive fleet present and defending it - and I mean literally captured it, shoving the whole thing into Commorragh and having it orbit the city like a nid-crawling moon. Are nids then jobbers? Probably. Everything jobs to dark eldar. They are beautiful and perfect that way.

>>51106014
>Probably. Everything jobs to dark eldar. They are beautiful and perfect that way.

Actually, Dark Eldar job to Necrons.

And there isn't a single recorded occasion of Dark Eldar defeating Necrons.

>>51105542
Why is your name Carnac, Carnac? The only thing I ever found on it was that it's the name of a planet in the 40kverse but that's about it.

>>51106071
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qX-YfuVQmX8

>>51106035

Not the guy you replied to, but for the Dark Eldar to really defeat Necrons, they'd most likely have to be on the attack.
Dark Eldar have literally no reason to ever attack Necrons as far as I can see.

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>>51106035
To be fair, the deldar don't fight necrons. There's only what, one case of them ever accidentally raiding a tomb world? The one with the archon whose daughter dies, iirc.

It's interesting though. The dark eldar are the only faction I feel who could completely and utterly beat necrons. They have the best technology in the setting. With the most recent necron fluff, this was finally set in stone. Dark eldar darklight can prevent reanimation, assuming they don't just explode a planet, trap it in a pocket realm of webway, use that mirror where "anything reflected in it is transported into the heart of a sun," etc.. Presently, almost all Commorrite weapons are designed around flesh - taking an especial fancy with poisoned splinter weapons that can tranquilize prey or kill them, as the wielder wishes, and their armors are built with the understanding that anyone who falls will just be brought back by a haemonculous, so make it faster and faster. If they were to invest in darklight and the energy fields they use all the time (against each other in Commorragh), necrons would not be an issue.

Speculatively. There's no slaves in hunting necrons, so it's hard to imagine a kabal rallying itself to fight them. Not even Vect could manage that. He could, of course, dispatch some of his 1,000,000 wraithguard he has stashed away though. Necrons fall to distortion weapons like all the rest.

>>51106098
Actually, it one of the cases it was an attack. A Dark Eldar Archon raided a Necron tomb with his kabal seeking to steal one of those giant green power crystals.

His kabal was wiped out to a man including his daughter. He was the only survivor.

>>51106134

iirc they didn't know the Necrons were there.
Or at least not in significant numbers.

>>51106134
What is the source of that story again? I'm on a deldar binge and just finished Path of the Dark Eldar series, and I want to reread that one.

>>51106160
Mistress Baeda's Gift

>>51106010
bad writing and inconsistent fluff

>>51106014
Of course nids are Jobbers

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>>51106170
Thanks, m80.

>>51106115

>They have the best technology in the setting.

No... that would be the Necrons.
Wraiths have beams weapons that can instantly zap objects into throw away pocket dimensions.
Not as a weapon, (though it's used as one) but because it's easier than having to take out the trash.

Has there ever been any stories in which a hive tyrant took on a greater daemon? That's a fight I'd love to see

>>51106203
they deal with those the same thing they deal with anything else

Throw Carnifexes at it.

>>51106197
Yep, the escalation says that the Eldar only understand basic concepts of Necron technology. It's generally beyond their understanding.

Then you have Necrons referring to Eldar as primitives and mocking their inferior technology.

>>51106203
Closet thing to it is the Swarmlord beheading a daemon prince, IIRC

>>51106197
actually it would be the tyranids.

>>51106239
Tyranids haven't shown mastery over space and time that competes with the Eldar and Necrons, or even DAoT humanity.

>>51100707
>that pic

More pls

>>51106258
mastery over space and time are irrelevant to the goal, the speed at which it occurs is irrelevant, only that it occurs.

>>51106275

If you're just going to make up arbitrary self created definitions of what technology is, then there's no point discussing it with you.

>>51106258
Their ftl works by literally bending space-time too their will.

>>51106275
Going by 2nd edition lore, the Tyranids goal is to survive and survive forever.

Gaining mastery over time means
that they would achieve that goal.

>>51106283

>having magical powers= technology

Nope.

>>51106283
I know but still it's not at the level of the Necrons and Eldar.

>>51106235
>swarmlord beheading a daemon prince
Tell me more

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>>51106197
>Wraiths have beams weapons that can instantly zap objects into throw away pocket dimensions.
The deldar literally have that too. Have you never opened a deldar codex before? They have multiple suns they built dyson spheres around orbiting Commorragh - and when they figured those suns were too bright, they shoved them in pocket dimensions with an adjustable opening so they could control the brightness - while still capturing the energy of the suns with the dyson spheres. Oh, and remember the "orbiting" part? Orbiting pocket dimensions.

They also built a device that can plunge worlds into pitch blackness, and they use it against night lords for fun. Vect put a black whole into a pocket dimension and gifted it to another archon as a party gift. The aforementioned mirror that hurls anything reflected in it into a sun. And lets not forget the haemonculi - Fabius Bile spent 10,000 years trying to decode and understand geneseed. A haemonculus coven did it in 3 years, found it boring, and instead weaponized one of the mutations from it (Black Dragon's bone curse).

>>51106225
For what it's worth, the deldar say the same about crafterworlders.

The thing most people forget is that the deldar, unlike the eldar, never lost their technology from the Fall. They changed directions with it, but they didn't lose anything. Not only are they still at the height of pre-Fall technology, the deldar have continued advancing since then. The only thing they cannot do is psychic technology, like bonesinging - not because they lost the information of how (they didn't, as their archives and libraries are described as complete), but because they cannot use their psychic abilities without risking Slaanesh.

>>51106280
they're fully capable of self directed evolution at a pace the Necrons never could, and the imperium even in the DAOT couldn't either.

>>51106292
>implying biotechnology isn't technology

They don't use the warp for FTL you mong

>>51106298
There isn't much to tell. It's a one line sentence from a WD article about the Swarmlord.

>>51106310
>They don't use the warp for FTL you mong

Actually, in the recent Cassius novel, Tyranid vessels fled into the Warp or via narwals.

>>51106326
>cassius

Fucking who?

>Fled into the warp

They don't use the warp

>Via Narwhals

Thats not how Narwhals work. Its slower than FTL and you can't exactly use it to flee


ALSO

>Tyranids
>FLEEING

Oh look its Black Library, back at it again with the godawful writing from writers who don't get the setting

Hit me with some of those backflipping terminators with multilasers senpaaai

>>51106296
>FTL not at the level of necron
That's been retconed. The necrons have no FTL anymore. They are described as only having gateways that they built on planets that utilizes a bit of the Webway. Not that that makes any sense - this means that the necron empire expanded at sub-FTL, taking tens of thousands of years to get anywhere despite being a shorter lived race than humans, IE multiple dynasties just to travel between worlds. And being a quarrelsome race - it would be multiple dynasties just to go from ones homeworld to the enemy's, and by then they'd likely have a new dynstasy of their own.

Silly, but that's what GW wants with the necrons now. Without those gates, they can only travel "the long way. But that's okay because they are immortal robots!" Forgetting, of course, the necrontyr were not immortal robots when they did all their expanding, colonizing, and fighting, and they built the gateways with the help of the C'Tan in the war.

>>51106306

>deldar: use pocket dimensions to deal with massive space problems
>necrons: use them because too lazy to take out the garbage

You're not exactly inspiring confidence that deldar are more technologically advanced.

If they were, why would they try to steal Necron tech as was brought up previously?
Why don't they have the ability to teleport around literally at will, have swarms of nanoscopic machines to repair their stuff, have basic infantry weapons that can destroy anything that exists, time altering melee weapons, time altering personal shields, and all the other stuff necrons have?

>>51106343
>‘I cannot know, exactly,’ he admitted. ‘Two years ago, when we broke the back of Kraken, the aliens’ bio-vessels fled in a hundred directions, slipping back into the warp or disappearing into dark space too dangerous for us to follow. The hunger I sensed could originate from any one tendril of their hive fleet. Or it could be a harbinger of some new dread set to be unleashed across the galaxy.’

related text above.

>Fucking who?

Important and old anti-nid ultramarine. Featured heavily in Deathwatch material last year.

>They don't use the warp

Not according to the novel.

>Its slower than FTL and you can't exactly use it to flee

They are slow within systems. Outside systems they are fairly fast.

>>FLEEING

splinters of defeated Hive fFeets tend to flee in all directions. It is mentioned numerous times in the fluff.

>>51099609
Faggot.

>>51106360
Again. I know. Even with that consider the Tyranids not possess the Necrons mastery over space-time.

Also you forgetting that once the Necrontyr/Necrons arrive on a planet they open up space folding gateways that link them other parts of their dynasties. Allowing forces to travel in mere moments to new lands to conquer.

>>51106393
Fucking who?

>Not according to the novel

WHERE'S MY BACKFLIPPING MULTILASER TERMINATORS ANON

>They are slow within systems

No. They're slow at the start and it builds up speed over time, thats why it works for FTL, and not normal travel

>flee

There's a difference between running away and terror, and choosing instead to splinter away and become an insurgency like threat

Fleeing implies running away in terror

Fuck i hate the black library, its so fucking bad

>>51106416
Necrons don't posses Tyranid mastery over biotechnology and self directed evolution

>>51106360

fyi, not the guy you replied to

The current Necron FTL situation is illogical and broken.
They had their magic inertia-less drives taken away, yet the lore still treats their attacks as if they'd suddenly shown up via that method in multiple instances, instead of using the method you correctly described as being "canon"
They also have lots of time bending devices, so why those are just ignored for space travel, I have no clue.

I'm not saying you're wrong,
but it's basically a moot point until GW fixes it imo.

>>51106225
Wow, a race in 40K believes they're the bestest and that all other races are primitive savages, what a surprise! By your logic the Eldar could claim the exact same thing that the Necrons do

>>51106434

Eldar openly admit Necron tech is more advanced.

>>51106418
>Fucking who?

Not knowing who Cassius is is for a nid fan what Cadian fan not knowing Abaddon.

>WHERE'S MY BACKFLIPPING MULTILASER TERMINATORS ANON

Blacklisted and removed from BL years ago.

>No. They're slow at the start and it builds up speed over time, thats why it works for FTL, and not normal travel

Slow within systems. In the 6th ED codex it's said that the Tau managed to outpace the Tyranid fleets chasing them by many days. And it was within the same system. It took the Tyranids many days to travel from one planet to the next in the same system.

>There's a difference between running away and terror, and choosing instead to splinter away and become an insurgency like threat

Regardless of the reason, they fled to avoid destruction.

>>51106363
>If they were, why would they try to steal Necron tech as was brought up previously?
Because as was outlined in that story, the archon responsible was not part of "the social elite," IE, he's not a part of High Commorragh and only has what can be produced by the slave factories of Low Commorragh.

>Why don't they have the ability to teleport around literally at will,
The DE are the only faction in the tabletop able to do just that.

>have swarms of nanoscopic machines to repair their stuff
Slaves do it for them. As is very obvious from every DE work, while they have the technology to do so much more, they aren't in it to win it. They deliberately armor themselves lightly so that fighting resolves more around the skills and prowess of the fighters (both kabals and cults), or they wish to test whatever experiment is currently suiting their fancy (covens). And just like the necron, they are deathless, so long as they have the strength of will to resist Slaanesh's call. Which is most of them, considering every after-action report shows the deldar reclaiming all of their dead from a battle.

The story with the archon's daughter is strange in that her expired instantly, when it says in codices that they usually have over a day to reach a haemonculus.

> have basic infantry weapons that can destroy anything that exists
They do. Darklight. Both in lance and "holy shit it's so big that we need to make indestructible energy shields around the blast just to make sure our supersonic bomber ships can get out of the way" bomb forms.

>time altering melee weapons
Because they have time-altering armors instead.

>time altering personal shields
Oh. Well, see above. The guy wearing it prefers having a real man-to-man fight before activating the armor, so that's one reason for weapons.

>all the other stuff necrons have?
Like?

>>51106434
The only race that the Eldar do not play superiority games with is the Necrons.

>>51106455
No seriously. I've never heard of Cassius. Ever. He must be irrelevant.

Seriously have never heard of this fucker.

And I've been playing since 3rd ed.

>>51106472
>I am so proud of my ignorance I will ignore the validity of your statements by repeatedly reminding you I am unaware of the full scope of the argument as if that negates the parts of it I dislike.

>>51106469

Apparently you can't read, and are obsessed with arguing something that is easily refuted by just reading the codex of both races.
I'm not, so enjoy the thread by yourself.

>>51106521
No seriously. I don't know who this nigger is.

Is he some space marine special character is something? Cause I don't keep track of those. The only one I really remember is papa smurf.

If he's some fucking space marine I seriously don't care about how cool you think he is, he really does not matter.

Its not like he's Lord Kryptman or something, who is an actually far more relevant character to the Tyranids and arguably one of the few who understands the true threat.

>>51106363
And for kicks, just some more stuff the DE do have that's more practical for them

>blades that instantly vaporize whatever they touch, leaving only the armor (for souvenir) and soul (for consumption) intact
>A nanoplague that turns whatever is touched by it into glass. They use it for beautiful glass sculpture.

>>51106527
That's your response? You listed things that they either do have or don't need, and then claim high ground when you're refuted? To isolate just a single line, "basic infantry weapons that can destroy anything that exists."

If you read both codices, or anything supplementary, you'd know about what darklight is and what dark lances are. If you read anything about dark eldar, you'd know that while they can produce dark lances easily, they take them only for dealing with enemy armour and much prefer hyper-velocity tranquilizer splinter weapons to capture enemy infantry for their slave pens. It's not that they don't have it, or don't have it easily available, or whatever - they simply choose an alternative more suited for their goals.

You're being silly.

>inconsistent lore
>setting basically never change because Game Workshop want to maintain the statu quo
>codex will always say "this faction is the most powerful in the galaxy"
>all faction have a "this faction will win if..." clause
>heavy bias towards the space marine because they sell the most
Is there something more pointless than discussing power level in 40k ?

>>51106424
Really arguing about who is the most advanced out of eldar, necrons and nids is kinda pointless, they all surpass the others in certain feilds. None are overall better.

>>51099489
Actually, Chaos tends to beat Tyranids when they surprise them. Stuff like opening warp portals in the middle of Hive Fleets or turning planets into Daemon worlds mid-invasion usually fuck the Tyranids over. In protracted engagements, Tyranids win because they can out adapt Chaos and the combination of SitW and lack of souls kill daemon's momentum and cause them to fade back into the warp.

Ultimately, Chaos is currently the bigger threat due to the thinning of reality and such. However, Tyranids are a bigger scope villain who will be the BBEG should Abaddon's 13th Black Crusade fail.

>>51106203
The Tyranids defeated four greater daemons in Shadowbrink, one from each God. The Nurgle one got fucking shot to pieces by Exocrines and Tyrannofexes.

>>51106615
The two strongest factions in 40k are undeniably the necrons and the dark eldar. Since the Imperium is the protagonist of the setting, they get both the attention and have the most potential for an underdog victory, but in terms of technology and fighting strength, the necrons and the dark eldar are on the top. Nothing in the setting genuinely threatens them except each other, and they actual engagements against each other can be counted on one finger. Sure, the nids can give the necrons a bit of a scuff while the dark eldar treat them like nothing more than curious pets, but then Slaaneshi chaos gives the dark eldar a bit of a scare and the necrons are totally indifferent.

In fact, so secure here the dark eldar that GW had to invent the Khaine's Gate dilemma to give the DE any sense of struggle, despite the fact that it makes no sense with prior lore for both the Webway (why don't they just collapse that part of the wbway like they do with every other incurable rift?) or Commorragh itself (why don't they just abandon that subrealm and destroy all the portals leading to it, like they did with Shaa-dom?). Alas.

yeah but who has the most STYLE

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>>51106704
Was that ever a question? The Duke, Vect, and Trazyn have everyone and everything else beat handedly.

>>51106615
/thread

>>51106574
Not him but if you are arguing about Necron superiority then you are arguing with established canon. Necron technology is superior to Old One technology, for example according to the 5th ED codex. The only Eldar known to have some working knowledge of the Necron technology are the haraquins of the Dreaming Shadow because they have access to the Black Library and that certain manual left from the War in Heaven.

Also here some examples from the Necrons that the Dark Eldar don't have. Their fleet weaponry uses blackholes, star cores, and celestial anomalies as ammunition. So far the Dark Eldar have never weaponized stars and blackholes to being the standard ammunition of their armies.

There are also artefacts like Celestial Orrey, Breath of Gods, and the Smoking Mirror, and the Starfame.

>>51106680
>In fact, so secure here the dark eldar that GW had to invent the Khaine's Gate dilemma to give the DE any sense of struggle

This basically refutes your first point. The Dark Eldar cannot fight what's coming towards them.

Also in the daemon codex it says the Dark Eldar are worried about the state of Real Space. If the Chaos forces prevail there, then the Dark City will no longer be able to hide.

Also Abaddon led a crusade to the Dark City and besieged it. He only left after the offending Kabal was exterminated.

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>>51106765
>So far the Dark Eldar have never weaponized stars and blackholes to being the standard ammunition of their armies.
Notice how you have to specify "as standard ammunition" because that is stuff they regularly use in fluff.

Again, I'm going to repeat that they don't use it as standard because they don't want to. There isn't a single dark eldar raid where the goal is to destroy something, thus they aren't armed to destroy. In the few times they do want to destroy something, what happens? Blackhole in a box. Perfectly timing a warp drive explosion to open a warp rift inside Shaa-dom to completely wipe it out. Ancient fortress layered in so many of the most advanced energy shields that over 1,000 ravagers couldn't destroy it without significant causalities first - so what do they do? They burp a sun out of a pocket dimension, open a slit in its dyson sphere, and funnel the star into the fortress until its last shield fails and the fortress (and everything else) is slag.

Another problem is that we have never seen an actual dark eldar ship - the kind that compares to, as you say, the necron fleet. Vect has a floating fortress pyramid that shits all over his Dias of Destruction that we don't see in action beside shrugging off darklight. We also haven't seen a deldar flagship like what The Duke hijacked. We don't know what the heavier stuff does, only their quick raiding stuff, while the necrons show up in much more upfront engagements.

The real problem I find is that dark eldar sit along orks as the last parody factions. The way they've been written, they can do whatever they want. Imperial ship follows them into a portal - ends up in the core of a star. Opens a box, finds a black hole. Night lords attack a world, end up with a fear of the dark. Craftworld dying to nids/orks, dark eldar send a relief force that instantly destroys it - why, because they think craftworld necromancy is hilarious.

They don't have a "hard" limit to technology. Only antics.

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>>51106790
>This basically refutes your first point.
I'm saying it doesn't make sense. The last time daemons invaded Commorragh en masse is a good example of this.

Central Commorragh, the part that is composed of the Corespur, High Commorragh, and Low Commorragh (say 20% of its total mass and population, as all the rest are subrealms connected by portals) is surrounded by an impenetrable ward system that daemons cannot penetrate. If they are brought in another way (summoned, a portal, pic related, Khaine's Gate, etc.), the ward has a secondary system that grids the entire city. At any time, Vect (and only Vect, as Path of the Archon shows he killed everyone else who knew how to do this) can activate any part of the grid to contain a breech. When pic related happens, he contains just that spire, sends in his Castigators (1,000,000 wraithguard he has stashed away), purges them, and then releases the spire. When Nurgle releases plague-Ur-gouls through Aelindrach, he uses the grid to guide them against a rival kabal and burns them out with a captured sun, then releases the grid.

In Path of the Archon, we find that Vect cannot keep up the entire grid 100% of the time as the dyson spheres cannot keep the city and the wards at full capacity both. He could, however, add another sun if he wished. It is also mentioned he could keep parts of the grid up indefinitely as needed. Commorragh could also keep up the grid with the rest of the city at reduced capacity.

If Khaine's Gate leads into central Commorragh, past the outer warding, as seems likely, there's nothing stopping Vect from isolating it with the grid. And if there was, there's nothing wrong with abandoning Central Commorragh, closing its portals, and rebuilding throughout the many other subrealms of Commorragh. The chief advantage of Central was its many realspace portals, but as seen with the Neo-Commorragh fluff, it's hardly necessary.

And source on the Abbadon siege? I haven't heard of that.

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>>51106790
I ran out of words, but
>Also in the daemon codex it says the Dark Eldar are worried about the state of Real Space. If the Chaos forces prevail there, then the Dark City will no longer be able to hide.

In the new Haemonculus codex, they paint a totally different picture to that problem. They'll basically supply their own food if the worst happens. Nothing about the city hiding at all. If Commorragh falls, there's an exclusive Neo-Commorragh Vect made as well.

>>51099489
Chaos needs life in the galaxy to feed it emotions. The tyranid system of winning buy consuming everything is death to chaos.

The Chaos gods don't want to destroy the imperium, they just want their pawns to keep trying and failing at destroying it.

>>51107183
>The Chaos gods don't want to destroy the imperium

When will this meme end?

>>51107131

No matter how you try to say it, the Deldar are far from immune and intouchable; these wards will only hold for a time if the Demon focus on it. If the Eldar empire in his prime was not enough to hold against the wrath of the Chaos, the crippled version that is Commorragh will not. Even the Necron Pillar ( who are far more experienced in fucking the warp than the Eldar will ever be) have been shown to have limit. Vect can act as cocky as he want, but the reality is that the Dark Eldar exist cause no one with sufficent power is really angry enough about them to put great effort in their anhilation

>>51107131
>>51106963

You're obviously a big dark eldar fanboy, but there's a reason why at least three different people are calling you out on this. (four if you include me now)
It's because you're obviously and blatantly wrong, are misrepresenting technoligies, and saying things that are obviously untrue if you just read hard canon material. IE the codexies.

Dark Eldar, and even pre-fall eldar obviously have nowhere near the technology level that Necrons do.

Their basic infantry have far more advanced tech, their special weapons are far more advanced tech,
deldar don't even apparently have nano technology, they have nowhere near the time mastery or time bending gear.

And at the end of the day, it's well established that Necron tech is at least equal to The Old ones, and there's is simply nothing that exists in canon to show the deldar have Old Ones levels of tech.
You cannot argue your way around this.
It's literally not up to you.

>>51107200

Not the guy you replied to, but how else you you explain chaos constantly fucking up and then going "huehuehue just as planned!" over and over for thousands of years?
Even if it's not a "canon" reason, it seems like the only logical one.

>>51107218
>Even if it's not a "canon"

You're right, it's not canon, so cut it out.

>>51107234

No need to get upset, I'm just asking if you have a more logical explanation.

>>51107256
The canon one.
It's a game to them.

>>51107207
I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here. The wardings are from the Old Ones and part of what separates the Webway from the Warp - you're saying the Webway "will only hold for a time if the Demon focus on it."Secondly, "the Eldar empire in his prime," never tried "to hold against the wrath of the Chaos." It was doing its own thing for millennia, with no presence of chaos at all, until one day it just exploded when Slaanesh was born and consumed practically everyone. There wasn't a fight. Just a birth scream.

>>51107286

And that birth scream destroy the Eldar Empire and cause massive dammage to the Webway. The webway it'self is not in a very good shape, and that's not like it's gonna go better. Wich is far from a good thing for the Eldar ( in general).

>>51107281

So... it's a game that they enjoy losing over and over instead of accomplishing their stated goals?

>>51107322
It's just a game so they don't take it very seriously and they are happy to faff about.

>>51107322
A game they don't want to stop.

They are basicly the god-like equivalent of that 4 faggot in a strategy game just launching their army on a big battle, but just retreating if they win, and not destroying the ennemy base.

>>51107359
>>51107350

So then the other guy was right in saying that the Chaos Gods don't want to destroy the Imperium.

>>51105513
that's dumb. what ever happened to the shadow in the warp?

>>51107385
No, they do.

>>51107359

Well I think it's more like "Meeeeeh, we could help our servant and all, but that's would take to much effort and it is as enjoyable like this". At least it's how I see it.

>>51107412

>Chaos doesn't wanna destroy Imperium
>>Yes they do!
>then why don't they?
>>because they don't want to

????????????????????

>>51107422
They want to destroy it but it's a game and they're not WAACfags.

>>51107447

I was LITERALLY just told
"[fighting the Imperium is] A game they don't want to stop."

"Stopping the game" would mean destroying the Imperium.

So this statement is explicitly saying they do not want to destroy the Imperium.

>>51107458
>I was LITERALLY just told

I don't care. You responded to two separate posts saying two different things.
I'm telling you that they want it destroyed.

>>51107458
I tell that, your talking to at least two different guy.

But as I correct myself, it's probably that they also enjoy seing their servant struggle to destroy it and so, don't put to much effort into it.

>>51107458
It's simple. The Chaos Gods want to enjoy their victory. Do they want to win? Yes. But they get more from it by drawing it out. More amusement and such if they let it run it's course. Maybe when it gets boring they'll deliver the killing blow but until then it's not really worth doing just yet.

They've basically won if they want to. Nothing is stopping them pouring more chaotic energies into every single follower to supe them up or Khorne hefting his fucking axe and cutting the galaxy in half. But they get their kicks watching mortals live, fight, fuck and die trying to please them and earn they're favour. And to them, that's funny, so let's keep the mortals fighting.

>>51107471

Well the second post was
"It's just a game so they don't take it very seriously and they are happy to faff about."
This is also saying they don't want to destroy the Imperium.
If chaos wanted to destroy the Imperium, they obviously would.
Since they don't care, and do not make any serious attempts to, they clearly do not want to destroy the Imperium.

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>>51107208
>Their basic infantry have far more advanced tech, their special weapons are far more advanced tech,
That's the thing though. Gauss rifles are not more advanced than dark lances. You're right in that not every kabalite is armed with a dark lance, but whether or not such an armament is feasible, the deldar wouldn't arm everyone with dark lances - for one, this denies the up-close and personal feast of pain they live by, and for two, it denies them the ability to capture the enemy as slaves.

You can't argue "They don't do this," you need to argue "They can't do this." I'm arguing that they can. Their slave factories produce darklight weapons just fine; they just prefer splinter weapons for the obvious reasons.

>deldar don't even apparently have nano technology
They do. The haemonculi use nanotechnology to contain and immunize against the glass plague - which, keep in mind, is a virus another dark eldar created that turns flesh to glass. Hell, the haemonculi decoded space marine geneseed and weaponized a mutation from it. Nanotechnology is not something they struggle with. Illuminor Szeras has nothing on a haemonculus coven.

>they have nowhere near the time mastery or time bending gear.
You're right. It's not the same. They have stuff, but it isn't the same. They do, however, have absurd soul manipulation technology that the necrons don't - like a suit of armor that captures the pristine souls released by huskblades, and the wearer can extract the memories from any of the souls in the armor. Their flesh manipulation is also par none; the Thirteen Scars' flesh titan ripped apart multiple chaos titans in their assault against Fabius Bile. It's just that we don't get to see it on tabletop.

I may be a fanboy, but you should not be so wrong when trying to argue. If you're only argument is "GW says necrons are equivalent to old ones, so they're better," then fine, I can't argue that, but in practice, the competition is clear.

>>51107479

This isn't an argument, it's just wordplay.

If I have a toy, and I figure it would be fun to break it, but decide I'd rather play around with it for a while, and only break it once I get bored,
then I obviously do not currently want to break the toy.
That may change in the future, but it is undeniable that I do not currently want the toy broken.

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>>51106765
>So far the Dark Eldar have never weaponized stars and blackholes to being the standard ammunition of their armies.
Hah.

>>51107487
You want to change the channel. You can't really be bothered to find something else to watch. You'll eventually get up and change the channel but until then it's not worth worrying about or moving from your comfy spot. So you don't want to change the channel?

You're a fucking retard Anon.

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Just gonna leave this here.

>>51107487
>This is also saying they don't want to destroy the Imperium.

No it's not, it's saying they're not desperate to destroy the Imperium, or that they have their own plan to destroy it.

They'll destroy it at their leisure, but at the end it the day they'll see it destroyed.

>>51107503
No you're just autistic. Maybe some other form of mental issue.

It's a case of, break the toy once it stops being fun and you've got worth out of it. You still want to break it, that's your overwhelming desire and it's colouring your actions of setting it on fire and seeing if it survives. Your argument is just "No but I feel." which is fucking stupid.

>>51107494

"Illuminor Szeras has nothing on a Haemonculus coven"

Please. Maybe on cruauty ( even if Szeras is not "cruel" he just don't care) but this is the guy that help the fucking C'tan for the bio-transfer.

>>51107539
Chaos has no single desire. It desires everything and nothing.

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>>51107494

>Gauss rifles are not more advanced than dark lances.

You're already comparing a standard issue infantry weapon to a specialist heavy weapon, then making a half-assed excuse of "well they wouldn't use it as a standard infantry weapon anyway" as if that has anything to do with anything.

Second of all, Gauss weapons ARE more advanced than dark lances.
Gauss weapons are "molecular disassembling beams" and dark lances basically just shoot out some stuff called 'darklight' which even in the deldar codex they say that deldar have no idea what it is or where it even comes from.
They literally don't even know where their own tech comes from.
So even IF they were more advanced, the deldar have no fucking clue how to get more darklight, because apparently nobody knows where it's from.
Meanwhile, the necrons are using antimatter and entire black holes for their weapons.

Pic related, not even going to bother with the rest of this post.

Bitch and moan all you want, your favorite race isn't the most technologically advanced, and no amount of shitposting will change that.

>>51107539

Nope. Just more retarded illogical wordplay.
If you have the power/freedom to break something, and you want to, then you do it.
If you'd rather not break it, at least not now, then you don't.

Saying "they DO wanna destroy the Imperium, just not right away" is complete horseshit as an argument.
That statement breaks down to mean: 'They do not want to destroy it now. They may/will in the future.'

The key fucking point being the fact that they DO NOT WANT TO DESTROY THE IMPERIUM RIGHT NOW

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>>51107561
Haemonculi transfer souls between bodies easily. It's literally the premise of Path of the Archon. Achon dying to the glass plague, haemonculus transfers his soul with someone else. Haemonculus about to be killed by a coven, activates a rune that transfers his soul with a kabalite across the city.= Haemonculi are

>>51107612
>If you have the power/freedom to break something, and you want to, then you do it.

Not if you want to have fun doing it.
It's the same reason why'd you put James Bond in a contrived death machine.

>>51107645

I've already explained why this isn't an argument. Don't waste my time with this crap again.

>>51107659
No you've not.
You just don't understand that you can want something but want to go about getting it a certain way.

>>51107635
"Easily" we don't have proof of how complicated it is, and this his nowhere near the bio-transfert, it's not just changing body, it's taking a biological being and saying "And now it's a robot". And that was on a much bigger level, they did it for all the Necrontyr, to different level given their rank, but still.

>>51107688

Your refusal to accept the logic of my argument is completely irrelevant and pointless to me.
You can't have something both ways and you never will.
If it's too hard for you to understand, then stop wasting my oxygen and kill yourself, or do something else equally productive.

>>51107738
Your "logic" is faulty.

You don't sound like you're killing yourself, young man.

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>>51107577
Now you're just being disingenuous.

Not knowing how to create it does not mean they don't know how to harvest it. Furthermore, they churn out millions of blasters and dark lances each day in their slave factories, so clearly it isn't a limited resource. Which is another thing - they are to the point that they have slave races, humans and else, making their weapons from their schematics. Schematics, mind, that they understand, not just templates taken from pre-Fall. They know enough about dark lances to modify them to be able to disintegrate the shadows of Aelindrach. This is like me saying a necron warrior doesn't know how to make his gauss rifle. The dark eldar designed darklight weapons post-Fall. The inventors clearly knew how to harvest it, confirmed by the mentions of containment fields in voidmine descriptions. As for power, they shit all over gauss, both in fluff and tabletop.

And lastly Blasters, also darklight weapons with the same profile, are standard infantry weapons - or at least, a civilian sidearm. Kabalites and archons in Path of the Dark Archon call them cowardly weapons, taking the pain and struggle out of a fight.

Glad to know you have no arguments though.

>>51107785
I can't, I can't die until you've learned that wants need not be fulfilled immediately in any manner.

>>51107208
Pre fall eldar were the greatest civilization the galaxy had ever seen, including the Old Ones. I think it is safe to say that their tech surpassed Necrons. The Necron wank on this board is off the charts and no one ever calls anyone out on it.

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>>51107689
>we don't have proof of how complicated it is
I mean, it was as simple as transferring to whoever put on the crown (once activated) for the archon, and whenever the talisman in his pocket was activated for the kabalite. Considering the haemonculus did it the very second a talos crashed into his lab, he made it seem pretty easy.

>>51107876

Easy to activate don't mean easy to create. Not like they was entire faction in the setting that use thing without a clue of how or why it's work.

>>51107911
I see what you mean. For what it's worth, only haemonculi know how to do it, but it is fairly common. The kabalite, Kharbyr, comments that he's seen it "and weirder" before sometime after his scene.

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>>51107577
>They literally don't even know where their own tech comes from.
That description is actually a carry-over from when codexes were written from the Imperium of Man's perspective. "Standard laser" doesn't even fit from a dark eldar's perspective, since I don't think they even have lasers.

>>51107422
No offense but this sounds like a pretty solid logic for tzeentch. The other gods by their nature just want to consume but this mother fucker just enjoys the great game. Right now he can manipulate and do what he does best without it ending. A few losses here some wins there, the pawns want to win but the grandmaster wants to play.

Turns out the greatest enemy of chaos is the birdhouse.

>>51108889
The only way I could appreciate that is that in fact that featheryfucker is manipulated by Malal, who IS the greatest ennemy of Chaos.

Well him and the C'tan/Necron, who just want to make the warp stop existing.

>>51105463
Wait tell me about the admech story

>>51107876
Necron biotransference is taking a living mind and turning into pure energy. It's not as stupid and mundane as transferring souls. The bloody Necrons master soul transference since they were harvesting souls to feed the C'tan.

Saying Szeras works with concepts that the Eldar cannot dream to comprehend so cut the bullshit already.

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>>51106680
>>51106790

Khaine's gate is fucking retarded, and the idiot that wrote that bit of lore should be punched.a I ignore that shit entirely and do not consider it to be an actual part of Deldar lore.

It was not mentioned at all in the previous dex, or any of the ones before it, and was pretty much added to the new one as something of a "but even the Dark Eldar are doomed!" bs.

It is a total ass pull that makes ZERO fucking sense given the established rules of how the webway works. There is absolutely no reason why any such rent in the webway would be a threat to the Deldar, when the Deldar can open and shut close Webway gates AT WILL. At worst, that gate opening would make just one of the multitude of sub realms of Commoragh uninhabitable, which mind you, has happened before many times, via black holes being opened up inside sub realms, to full scale daemonic invasions, and they have never threatened the entire Dark Eldar society in any fashion.

>>51107577
Nigger, Darklight weapons are far more fucking advanced than gaus weapons. Gaus weapons just tear apart molecules, whereas Dark Light is implied to be some sort of god damn antimatter/negative photons or some shit, that destroys matter upon impact, and scars your eyes if you even just see a beam of it being fired.

And Blaster pistols are a god damn side arm.
The Deldar can fit more destructive power to a fucking pistol than the supposedly more advanced gaus weapons possess.

>>51107131
>And source on the Abbadon siege? I haven't heard of that.

Talon of Horus. Abaddon being a total bro to Khayon directed the Black Legion to siege the Dark City in revenge for killing Khayon's Dark Eldar friend.

>>51111459
Khaine's Gate cannot be isolated or shut. All the Dark City will be flooded with daemons. No dimension is safe in the city.

Anyways, if you ignore KG, then you gonna ignore a ton of DE fluff that's coming. It's obviously a set up for a future campaign book where the fate of the Dark Eldar is decided.

Vect will die. I am 100% sure of it

>>51112014
>Khaine's Gate cannot be isolated or shut. All the Dark City will be flooded with daemons. No dimension is safe in the city.

And that makes zero fucking sense given the already established lore of both Commoragh and the Webway, ergo, it is shit writing and lore, and thus it should be ignored.

And I give no fucks about the new "lore" GW intends to shit out. GW has't produced decent new lore in years, and I got no interest in reading about them wank about chaos while shitting up actually interesting factions like the Dark Eldar.

>>51111459

>Nu Nu Nu, my favorite faction cannot be put in any danger at all ! Even if they are the decadent survivor of a Fallen empire and member of race that have all the attention of one god of Chaos.

>>51112286
Nobody argued that the Dark Eldar can't be in danger, and they arguably already were, even before the Khaine's Gate bs.
It was just that the mortal danger they faced was faced by each individual alone, via the way Slaanesh leeched off their souls.

Khaine's gate is a lame ass pull of a threat, that doesn't even make any sense, given that again, the Dark Eldar have previously already shut down compromised sections of the webway or their sub realms many times before.

There is no explanation why Khaine's gate is somehow different and why it can't be dealt with just as easily as all the other threats of it's type (rent in the webway threatening to spill forth deamons), have been dealt with in the past.

That is what makes it such a shitty bit of lore. It is not that it puts the Dark Eldar society at risk, it is that it makes no fucking sense given the established lore of the faction.

So please, don't make retarded strawmans and actually address the points that are being made.

>>51112509
>Nobody argued that the Dark Eldar can't be in danger
But that the consequence of negating all chance for Commoragh to being in actual danger. And all the risk "Face by any individual" don't stand when most of them don't give a fuck and rez easzy peazy like it was nothing. The Khaine's gate is probably (don't know much about it, except the concept, I admit that) very bad written, but the idea that Commorragh CAN be in danger should be a possibility.

>>51113855
>but the idea that Commorragh CAN be in danger should be a possibility.
Agreed.

However, Khaine's Gate is a problem of "there's a broken spar of the webway full of deamons, that threaten to storm into Commoragh!" which is something the Dark Eldar have dealt with before, by simply shutting down all the webway portals that connect that spar to the rest of the city.

However, for some completely unexplained reason, that solution supposedly doesn't work here, and as this anon said>>51112014, apparently
"Khaine's Gate cannot be isolated or shut. All the Dark City will be flooded with daemons. No dimension is safe in the city."

Which is total bs.
It breaks the already established rules, and goes basically "nuh uh, this one is special, and cannot be contained, cuz I say so", which is fucking shit tier writing.

>>51114073
Agreed.

Do you think Cruddance will ever die.

>>51115464

Well I was a Tyranids player. So I hope soo.

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>>51109296
>Necron biotransference is taking a living mind and turning into pure energy.
IIRC, Szeras is the only necron who knows how to do the process. It's not really a necron thing so much as a Szeras thing.

>>51112286
>>51112509
I would have preferred they went the route of Aelindrach expanding to consuming the entire city, like they were doing before. That was an already standing threat that makes more sense in the context of established fluff - and it even seeps past closed portals for a reason no one knows, making it far more terrifying.

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>>51113855
>(don't know much about it, except the concept, I admit that)
Here's everything that's been written about it.

>>51106963
>Another problem is that we have never seen an actual dark eldar ship - the kind that compares to, as you say, the necron fleet.
the dark eldar BFG rules go into some detail.

>>51115916
Agreed.

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>>51116055
Do you know where I could find them? The DE rules seem ass-aggravatingly elusive. Fitting, I suppose, but frustrating.

>>51105270
I'm eyeing off getting into the game with a box set, but half wondering if I should hold off a couple months just to see where the setting lands, if they replace Dark Vengeance with something that has updated rules etc.

>>51099489
The Harvest destroyed the Black Ravens chapter just so they could steal their fortress monastery and fight the nids, sort of like Khornate Murder-Hobos.

5th edition was a mistake.
Swarmlord, Draigo, wardian ultramarines and grey knights, making necrons pathetic instead of scarry. and lot more.

>>51105625
>The Tyranids would most likely be outadapted by the Tau scientists.

The Tau "adapt" by building bigger and bigger robots with bigger guns (something everyone else does already).

They use tactics and strategies (maneuver, not attrition! Ambushes!) that are basic concepts in war and only seem brilliant to 10 year olds.

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>>51102288

>>51117202
Herohammer 40k

>>51100707
>I said touch it.

>>51115821
You never recall correctly.

All dynasties did the biotransference when it was discovered. The Blood Vats Tomb Worlds is actually trying to reverse it.

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>>51125033
I dunno, mang. It just comes across that way in his entry. Of course every dynasty used the bio-furnaces, but Szeras' entry suggests he's the own behind them.

"Never" though? Are you the guy who thinks the Imperium's ignorance of darklight technology means the deldar don't understand it, or that the archon that raided a tombworld was looting it for "better" technology rather than a souvenir to impress a female archon he was wooing?

>>51125518
Szeras is the one who invented it but the technology was spread across the empire and each dynasty had its own bioforges. Building them and maintaining them. Fuck how what you said is so stupid. It's like saying this guy invented something this means nobody else knows how it works or how to build it.

You do know that the C'tan bindings and that fancy shadowcloak were invented by named Cryptek now they are standard in all dynasties? Because knowledge is shared.

In fact, in FFG material (if you want to consider it), a Cryptek was biotransferring Necrons and living things back and forth

And in "Hammer and Anvil" novel, a Cryptek mocks the Admech drive to robotise themselves as a flawed and crude imitation of the refined process of biotransference.

I think you are confusing him with Orikan who is the guy hiding his time traveling secrets.
>"Never" though? Are you the guy who thinks the Imperium's ignorance of darklight technology means the deldar don't understand it, or that the archon that raided a tombworld was looting it for "better" technology rather than a souvenir to impress a female archon he was wooing?

Nope, another guy.

>>51111899
Am I missing something or does the book not actually talk about the siege? It starts with

>And then there was Commorragh. That endless night we laid siege to the Dark City in our intention to wipe one of their noble houses from the face of the galaxy, in punishment for them for taking Nefertari from me.
but stops and cuts to
>But all of this is yet to come.
and the book ends a couple of paragraphs later.

From what I can tell too, this event is pre-Vect. Before the Commorrites were even called Dark Eldar, back when it was run by Noble Houses and there were no kabals. The key to the Warding was split between all the noble houses then, so I can imagine it being susceptible to that kind of siege, even if it is vaguely left with "our intention to."

>>51125640
Why are you so angry? Calm your tits, mang.

When something says, "The C'Tan gave everyone the knowledge, but only Szeras knew what to do with it," it gives the impression that only Szeras understood it. That's a logical dedication, not "so stupid." Of course knowledge is shared, but clearly the crypteks had no idea what to do with the knowledge before Szeras did it for them. Even then, I included "IIRC" because I wasn't sure.

And if you're another guy, why jump into a conversation with "You never recall correctly," when I clearly remember correctly that deldar can transfer souls between bodies, and I also remember that deldar can convert souls to pure energy that don't need physical housing? And they even know how to capture said pure energy souls as trinkets, at that. What has you so ass-aggravated that you'd immediately jump in with "You never recall correctly" when my rebuttals were to things the other, perhaps you, did not know or "recall correctly"?

>>51125929
It's not a logical conclusion and I have every right to be angry. The text only gives the impression that Szeras invented the technology and shared it with the rest of his dynasties you know like all his other inventions that he sells to them. There is nothing indicating that SZERAS only has the tech and he kept it to himself. It's a widespread and understood technology between the dynasties.

You deliberately tried to make Szeras the only guy ever to know how it works thus dismiss it. This is dishonest.

>And if you're another guy, why jump into a conversation

Because there are biased lies going on and I hate the IIRC because the guy who says it never RC.

And soul transference isn't what's being discussed. The Necrons mastered it to feed the C'tan souls. Biotransference and soul-transference are nothing alike. The Bio-T has nothing to do with souls at all.

>>51125675
It's book one of the series. Book 2 is coming out this year.

It might feature the siege among other things.

>>51126091
Hopefully. Seeing pre-Vect dark eldar in action actually sounds really interesting.

>>51126044
>This is dishonest.
That isn't "dishonest," it's an assumption. Secondly, I never once claimed or implying only Szeras "has the tech and kept it to himself." That sentence right there is dishonest. A blatant lie and falsehood, going by the theme of your post. The text says that when the C'Tan gave the knowledge of biotransference to the necrontyr, none of them actually understood it except Szeras. Despite Szeras then inventing the bio-furnaces, and apparently showing the other crypteks how to create and use them, there's little except FFG that says the crypteks understand it any better now than they did when the C'Tan taught them, so I made an assumption and stated that it was uncertain. Being open about that uncertainty is being honest.

Secondly, don't stop my sentence short and try to argue a fraction instead of the point being made. That is dishonest. It's called deflecting. I genuinely don't mind if a stranger jumps into a conversation. I don't question it with "why jump into a conversation," because I'm on an anonymous imageboard that assumes the person I'm talking to can change with each post. I said why jump into a conversation with those exact words, "You never recall correctly," as if familiar and personal. Furthermore, to say "the guy who says it never RC" is a gross generalization and frankly (and in theme here) dishonest.

Lastly, (and really in theme here) "And soul transference isn't what's being discussed" is a blatant lie and (ready for it?) dishonest. The post >>51109296, which is replying to me and to which I replied, is directly quoting into a discussion about the dark eldar process of transferring souls. That's exactly what is being discussed. That post compares the process, concludes they are incomparable, and claims the necron version is better because it turns a living mind into pure energy. Something, as included in my reply, that the dark eldar have also done.

That is the discussion. You are the one who is dishonest and biased.

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>>51126044
And on a side note,

>The Necrons mastered it to feed the C'tan souls.
The necrons didn't master soul transference. Biotransference removed the souls of the victims as a byproduct, something the necrontyr did not know beforehand and part of why the Silent King betrayed the C'Tan. It's even stated they dismissed the prophesy of Orikan when he said the process would destroy the souls of the necrontyr.

So biotransference has plenty to do with souls. Mainly, it removes them.

And for another matter, my original post that compared Szeras to haemonculi covens was about the fact that Szeras' obsessed goal is trying to understand the soul and the secret. Things that the haemonculi mastered aeons ago. When it comes to nanotechnology (which that point was about), Illuminor Szeras has nothing on a haemonculus coven. If the matter had been about bending reality (as all crypteks do regularly), the haemonculus coven has nothing on Szeras. Deldar bend reality quite reguarly (they are the surviving scientists of pre-Fall Eldar), but not as easily as crypteks.

>>51126505
>the soul and the secret to life*
I'm going to bed. I'm clearly tired.

>>51126505
>the haemonculi are the surviving scientists of pre-Fall Eldar
Bed.

>>51126396
A wall text of dishonest and lies. See this >>51115821. You claimed it it a Szeras thing in a effort to disconnect it from the wider Necrons by making him the only guy who knew the process when he is just the guy who invented it. The knowledge was passed on like every piece of Necron hardware with a Cryptek name plastered on it. You wanting Szeras to be the only guy who understands it is baseless and stems from your wanting to isolate the miracle that is the biotransference from the Necrons.

It's like saying that only the Cryptek who invented the Tomb Blades knows how they work. It's stupid as fuck.

>Secondly, don't stop my sentence short and try to argue a fraction instead of the point being made.

I took exception to that part because it's supreme show of dishonest. You tried yo make the Bio-T a Szeras only thing and then tried to equate soul-T with bio-T.

>Being open about that uncertainty is being honest.

No, that's using shield of ignorance to hide your dishonesty.

>Lastly, (and really in theme here) "And soul transference isn't what's being discussed" is a blatant lie and (ready for it?) dishonest

Another lie. The Bio-T discussion started here >>51107561. You erroneously compared it to the soul-T when the processed are nothing alike.

And No. The Dark Eldar have nothing comparable to the Bio-T. They do not have process that transforms the metaphysical concepts like thought and memory into living energy.

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>>51126505
>The necrons didn't master soul transference. Biotransference removed the souls of the victims as a byproduct, something the necrontyr did not know beforehand and part of why the Silent King betrayed the C'Tan. It's even stated they dismissed the prophesy of Orikan when he said the process would destroy the souls of the necrontyr.

Continue reading. It says that the C'tan harvested the souls of the Old Ones ally races.

>So biotransference has plenty to do with souls. Mainly, it removes them.

Because the Bio-T kills and destroys the body. Of course, the soul is ejected. It's like saying being shoot to death has plenty to do with the soul. Equally stupid

> When it comes to nanotechnology (which that point was about), Illuminor Szeras has nothing on a haemonculus coven.

Bullshit.

Necron nano is way superior.

>>51126618
Necrons harvested*

>>51126583
>You claimed it it a Szeras thing in a effort to disconnect it from the wider Necrons by making him the only guy who knew the process when he is just the guy who invented it.
Ah, but that's true. Szeras did not invent biotransference. The C'Tan did. The C'Tan also taught the necrontyr (ie, crypteks) how to do it, but they did not understand it and couldn't do it. Szeras, however, did understand it, and he invented the machines that could perform the process. He was, and maybe is, the only guy who actually knew the process enough to make it happen. The other crypteks can, apparently, make the bio-furnance machines Szeras invented, but the process, as taught by the C'Tan, wasn't understood by them.

If you feel that me mentioning that at all was a deflection of your point, I'll address another part of >>51109296 instead:

>Szeras works with concepts that the Eldar cannot dream to comprehend
Well, Szeras' incomprehensible process turns minds into pure energy but utterly severs them from their souls - something the necron ave all agreed is a very bad thing and they are trying bery hard to fix. The dark eldar can do the exact same thing but keep the soul fully intact. Something the necron cannot even dream to comprehend. Thus, better.

>>51126618
>It says that the C'tan harvested the souls of the Old Ones ally races.
More accurately, it says they harvested the life force of the defenders, not the souls. Now, normally I'd assume the life force to be the foodstuff of souls, similar to what the dark eldar feast on to replenish their leaking souls - however, you believe quite fervently that assuming something is dishonest. And we don't want to be dishonest here, right? So no, it says "life force," not souls, which can mean any number of things.

In a more serious tone, I do mean that literally. The dark eldar feast on life energy and they harvest souls - but the two are described as separate things. But assuming anyways that knowing how to harvest life energy is enough that you also know how to harvest souls, harvesting souls themselves does not mean thee necrons "mastered soul transference" as discussed, meaning the process of taking a soul out of a body and transferring it into another, as the deldar do (or convert the soul into pure energy, to freely zip around the galaxy, as the deldar did). The last time the necrons tried that, after all, they completely lost all of their souls, remember?

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>>51126618
>Bullshit.
>Necron nano is way superior.
So you say. Yet Szeras is desperately capturing living creatures and experimenting on them, trying to understand what life and soul is, while the haemonculi decompiled space marine geneseed in 3 years tops, countered and weaponized the glass plague, and even, get this, discovered the secret of biological immortality, which the necrontyr needed the C'Tan to help achieve and even then did so without keeping their souls and without the biological part. Sounds much more advanced than necron technology. Besides, isn't their only nanotechnology the nanobots that repair living metal and killed the kroots who consumed them? Inventions of the C'Tan to go with biotransference?

Necron technology can do crazy, crazy stuff, but nanotechnology,
>the branch of technology that deals with dimensions and tolerances of less than 100 nanometers, especially the manipulation of individual atoms and molecules
which includes almost the entire biological field (DNA is 2.5 nanometers wide and a single molecule) is easily under the mastery of the haemonculi.

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>>51126832
>>51126618
And to repeat something I said before on deldar nanotechnology, they do have the traditional "NANOMACHINES, SON" nanotechnology as well. A prime example is the nanomachines they used to counteract and immunize against the glass plague.

At any time they could use this technology as a bioweapon, but like The Panacea they possess, which is a cure-all against all things Nurgle, it just isn't as interesting to them as making the victim suffer with poisoned shards. As of the Haemonculus Supplement, they did however make an improved form of The Panacea STC anyways, which does the same thing but also protects against poisons and toxins.

>>51126832
Szeras is not "desperately capturing living creature" he his deseperate, he have all the time he need. He just want to understand everything, cause he think a proper god should at least be able to create the best race to ever exist, and well, he his pretty sure that he will become a god some day.

The Necron nanobots can do planty of thing, they just use it in "common" task. Well if you considere constantly repairing the prison of the Shard of a enraged physical god or maintaining a field of protection around a guy that can protect him from close to anything "common".

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>>51100707
>not just throwing a left hook into cooter for maximum cunt punt

>>51105809
I've never really thought about what it would be like to be in a battle like pic
Mixed emotions.

Why would tyranids even attack the necrons for?

>>51127401
Obvious threat

>>51127401
They just don't. They are completly irrelevant to Tyranids interest.

>>51099489
>>supposedly impenetrable iron warrior fortress wiped out in a week
What fortress? Where can I read about it?

>>51127436
>>51127431
>>51127401

The tyranids can sense necrons...somehow and do their dest to avoid them because they have nothing the tyranids want

its like a gentleman's agreement, if a one-sided one because the necrons have no problems with attacking the tyranids whenever they want

>>51100424
>Necrons fetting stomped in the fluff

Yeah their final defeat is always some stupid asspull (krak grenades at the sole weakpoint of a tomb world) but they are probably the xenos with the most victories

Like Fall of Orpheus and Hall of swords where entire chapters were destroyed without being able to send for reinforcements.

>>51127522
Forgefane, it was one of the best defended iron warrior fortresses in the galaxy, and had about a full chapter worth of chaos space marines defending it. It's mentioned in both he tyranid and csm codices, but there's a full write up of it that I saw posted a few days back and I'm waiting for that to pop up again

So do tyranids even use the warp? Because if so, shouldn't their actions affect chaos?

>>51135394
The codex specifically says tyranids don't draw from the warp in any conceivable way, so I'm gonna say no.

>>51135394
Essentially >>51139534. Before the most recent codex, there was a book or story (Cain series, maybe) that showed the nids arrive (or flee) by warp portals, but the newest fluff essentially paints the Hivemind as its own sea of souls, and they draw strictly from that in the same way that psykers do the Warp. The codex explains it as
>Many Tyranids are also Psykers. They do not draw power from the Warp in any fathomable way, but rather they harness a fraction of the Hive Mind’s gestalt will. This makes no difference for game purposes and these models follow all the normal rules for Psykers – a Perils of the Warp attack they suffer instead represents massive cerebral trauma or synaptic feedback.

This new transition, however, is not clean. For example, they still use the ability Warp Blast, and it's description is
>The Tyranid taps into the raw power of the Hive Mind, unleashing it as a blast of pure Warp energy that arcs from its cranium and vaporises its prey.

The newer Shield of Baal book makes similar slips. I believe the root of the inconsistency is that GW uses "warp" to describe the energy of The Warp (the place), even if its drawn out of the Hivemind rather than The Warp. However, the continued use of Warp Blasts and Warp Shields and Warp Whatever has led some people to believe that tyranids still draw from The Warp (the place), just merely in a non-fathomable way.

Ultimately, it's up to you what to believe. I've given you the evidence and arguments of both sides. I personally believe that they don't use the Warp, instead only the Hive Mind to the same effect, but whatever.

To answer your other question, because nids are still psychic and because they still use psychic abilities and effect psychic beings, they do affect chaos - regardless of if they use The Warp (the place), because they do still use the warp (the energy).

>>51140323
Personally I like the idea that he tyranids don't use he warp at all, and have their own form of psychic energy. It makes them seem even more alien when not even chaos has a grip over them at all

>>51140323
>This new transition, however, is not clean. For example, they still use the ability Warp Blast, and it's description is
>>The Tyranid taps into the raw power of the Hive Mind, unleashing it as a blast of pure Warp energy that arcs from its cranium and vaporises its prey
That never seemed a slipup to me.

Sure its using Warp energy, but that doesn't make it a Warp psyker any more than a human psyker shooting lighting bolts must mean he draws his powers from electricity.

>>51143230
Like whatever you want but nids draw power from the Warp using the Hivemind which is why Chaos Gods and the Emperor can see and interact with the Hivemind IN THE WARP.

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>>51099489
Thing about 'nids is that there's no personality there. They're literally just a thrashing mass and that makes them boring.

I mean sure, on the other end of the scale you have Abby-dee's autistic victory speeches, but the 'nids are worse because there's literally nothing there.

People prefer Chaos because it has a personality beyond a simple hunger. Characters like Honsou or Cherubael make it a good concept to play about with, especially in regards to things like temptation and knowledge.

Tyranids just eat shit, and that's fucking boring.

>>51144520
That's your opinion; and that's fine.

But personnaly I really like the all "Cosmic Horror" thing of the Tyrannids, and it's even better since the Genestealer Cult are here, that's give them a very Lovecraftian side: they are thing we don't and can't understand, and the only one who serve them are fucking sick and crazy as fuck, ect....

Still salty that they don't give the Genestealer Cult special Character tough. At least for the Nids it's understable, but the Cult's ? Why GeeDubs ? WHY ?

>>51144520
Maybe. But there is one Tyranid wiyh personality and it's horrible concept.