Pathfinder General /pfg/

Spheres of Might Kickstarter: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1708940685/spheres-of-might-a-new-pathfinder-martial-system

jesus fucking christ can you stop with the stupid shit images?

>>51084661
You belong in the fucking garbage with your shitty posts

Would a TWF Druid be literally retarded?

>>51084661
get your weeb shit out of here.

>>51084716
Probably, since it has a lot going against it.
>3/4ths BAB so you're getting those extra attacks slowly
>Wildshape means that you're better off taking Multiattack for more accurate hits
>Archetypes that trade away Wildshape almost always give you more casting
>Druid doesn't really have any spells that make buffing with weapons worthwhile; natural attacks are king for them

>>51083765

Bumping since it looks like last post was overrun with other topics.

>>51084787
I was really excited thinking it was a game you were GMing and now I am really sad.

>>51084687
>>51084701
>>51084724

You guys are why they keep doing this. Just roll with the punches, man.

>>51084828
Sorry, I'm thinking of hosting a game for you guys at some point but first I want to grow my confidence with my friends first.

>>51084716
>>51084738

You'd almost certainly want to be a Nature Fang druid, since they can get all of the TWF feats for free

And in case you came here and didn't read the replies, curious anon, this is why I hate Kanela Kaijitsu.
>>51084842
>>51084866
>>51084957

Tell us the worst flaws of your favorite RotJR application.

Hard Mode: Your criticism has to relate to the backstory's writing. Not content, tone (unless it's about inconsistency), or fetishes therein--just about bad writing.

Help me, please, /pfg/? Has anyone capped/posted the 'warlord' archetype from Issue #3 of the Worldscape comic yet, and if so, is there a thread/Imgur where I can take a peek? The 4plebs search function keeps throwing up Paths of War stuff when I look for 'warlord'.

>>51084980
Thanks, that's really thorough.

>>51085131

Worst flaw: It's a fucking RotJR application

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>>51085147

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>>51085147
I gotchu, senpai.

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>>51085177

>>51085177

I think they fucked up. What they meant instead was "At 1st level, and every even thereafter, a warlord adds +1 dodge bonus to Armor class. This replaces armor proficiency."

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>>51085164
>>51085177
Such prompt delivery! Many thanks, anon.

>>51085158
It was more of a rant then meant to be thorough, but I feel like I got my point across. The point of a backstory is not to explain how a character got from A to B, it's to show how the journey changed them into who they are today, and where they still have to go. That's why some people prefer shorter backstories, because it leaves more room for future development.

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>>51085211
This extra shit details some stuff that the Warlord archetype directly references.

>>51085213
If only, my poor anon, if only.

>>51083253
Gebrek is...probably going to be a useful combatant.
I honestly can't go beyond Easy Mode for this one.

>>51085211
>large size
>four-armed
Fucking what? How do they simultaneously release this terrible archetype and then think it's okay to put in this curbstomp of a martial race?

>>51085284
Because "that's how it was in the books". That would work as an explanation, but only if Pathfinder also allowed you to have main character powers like John Carter.

>>51085284
>>51085315
Well, there's also the fact that it's not balanced as a player race.

>>51085284
Apart from what >>51085331 said, there's a blog entry about it on their home site (when it isn't down for maintenance like it is right now). As >>51085315 says, it basically says "yeah, it's powerful, but that's how they were in the books, and at least Tharks aren't as OP as drow nobles".

What's the easiest way to play a Large character in PF at low levels?

>>51085514

ask your DM if you can play a large-sized race

>low levels

?

>>51085514
Convince your GM to let you play a large race.

>>51085514
Either ask your GM if you can play a large race, or play a Growth Domain Cleric.

>>51085514

Play someone with spells or alchemy that lets you grow. You won't always be large, but you'll be large when it matters.

AoO enlarge/longarm/reach weapon builds are very viable and manage a large amount of control and damage, even at low levels.

Don't die on me, thread.

>>51086044
Post themes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UuxUMF7dpI

>>51086058
Got a lot of mileage out of this soundtrack for Curse of the Crimson Throne
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Weep71ay4Bc

>>51085131
You should be more embarrassed about fishing so transparently

>>51085131
No

>>51086292
Wait, what's he trying? I thought this was just more clique-based circlejerking and theorycrafting bullshit.

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The Dragon Queen Culdranth has, in a one of her rare public appearances, called upon you to aid her.

What do?

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My players want to take on the God of Luck. One of the main gimmicks I've got in mind is having him Auto-Roll 20's and have a Luck bonus to AC of 99 (Meaning it would take Natural 20's to hit him, theoretically) that being said, is it possible to hit an AC of 99 normally? Assuming everything is available to players (At this point)

>>51086549

Is it aid? Or "aid"?

>>51086796
Wait, do you mean that they're level 20, any gear, any class, archetype, whatever they want? Anything Mythic? I feel like 99 is definitely possible, but I want to make sure I understand the ground rules first.

>>51086796
Warlord 20 might just manage to reach around +85 to +90, or any Scarlet Throne or Piercing Thunder initiator with the automatical hit maneuvers.

>>51086863
Correct. They've been preparing for fighting gods for three out-of-game years now. Its just finally starting to get to that point.

GMing for these people has been a wild ride

Hey, has anyone ever played with the dragon rider 3rd party class before? If so, is it any good? I kinda feel like a summoner could get the job done and arguably better.

>>51086838

Yes

>>51086919

>Summoner
>better than some 3pp gimmick

Surprise surmotherfuckinprise.

>>51086919
I've tried it, and I can say with confidence that you'd be better off rolling a summoner.

>as a GM I gave a Nature Fang druid the Trickery Domain
>used him as a villain
>it was a murder mystery on a ship the players were on
>people kept dying, they had to figure out who
>turns out it was the druid as a stow away and not a crew member (the druid would hide as a small creature in the bilge)
>player throws a bitch fit because Nature Fang druids can't have the trickery domain

I don't even understand.

>>51087104
It is the nature of a mystery that it must be solv-able within realism.
There is situations where a DM can alter the rules without informing a player. A murder mystery of all things is one where you shouldn't.

>>51087143
It shouldn't even make a difference unless the players were metagaming as fuck.

>Damn we totally would have narrowed it down to a druid if evidence that they had the Trickery Domain didn't make us rule it out as impossible because PC druids are restricted that way!
That's fucking stupid unless it was very the level of meta the GM encouraged/expected them to be working at.

>>51086919
Dragonrider is great as a one-level class before taking something else which progresses mounts. Also you need the companion options from the dracomancer if you want it to be relevant at low levels.

>Been running a voice game for a few months now
>Need to do a text session with a PC that got cut off from the party
>Actually able to get more story in this way
I wonder if I can convince my group to switch to text...?

Maybe at least let them use voice for OOC...?

>>51086882
Okay, we're optimizing for to hit bonus, so I'm leaving everything else out. Orc Fighter 20 (Mutation Warrior) VMC Barbarian, with a friendly Alchemist, Bard, and Cleric.
18 Strength + 4 Racial (Orc) + 4 (Levels) + 6 Enhancement (Belt) + 6 Alchemical (Greater Mutagen) + 6 Morale (Rage) = 44.
20 BAB + 20 (Infused True Strike) + 17 Strength + 6 (Surprise Accuracy Rage Power) + 5 (Weapon Enhancement) + 5 (Death From Above) + 4 (Weapon Training) + 4 (Flanking/Outflank) + 4 (Divine Favor/Fate's Favored) + 4 (Inspire Courage) + 2 (Furious Enchantment) + 2 (Bane Enchantment) + 2 (Gloves of Dueling) + 2 (Charge) + 2 (WF/GWF) = 95.

I think this could almost certainly be done more neatly with an Inquisitor, but I spent too long on this way.

>>51087396
You get 12 more strength using Orc bloodline VMC. For a Orc fighter only self buffing plus purchasable permanent items the max str is 65.

>>51087086
>>51087087
>>51087258

Thanks for the reply. I was just curious as summoner can effectively summon a "dragon" and it seem to have more utlity than the 3pp. Hell, it even had more spells.

I had not look at the dracomancer

>>51087535
Using muleback cords and a belt of any haul your carrying capacity is 3686400 lbs for heavy load.

>>51087558
Which oddly enough is only a 30ft on a side cube of granite. Granite is really heavy.

>>51087578
That's a gigantic weight to carry, was that supposed to sound like a small amount to you? If you just picked up a 30ft wide cube of granite in the middle of town you'd get literal worshippers thinking you're some kind of god.

Is there any way to get a tail that is also a snake?

>>51087667
Synthesist Summoner?

>>51087686
But is a one level dip into Summoner really worth it for that? Since I don't really want to play a full 1-20 Summoner, done 3 campaigns in the past year with that and need a bit of a break.

>>51087775
Well that depends. What's the point of getting a tail that's also a snake? Is it for the flavor of your character? Because then anything that gives you a tail could be fluffed as it being a snake, and you could just play a tiefling. Or is it for some weird bite attack? If it's a mechanical effect then you might need to go Summoner.

>>51087793
Flavor and a bite attack would be neat. Maybe I could just go Maw/Claw on Tiefling and fluff the Tail doing the attack?

>>51087793
>What's the point of getting a tail that's also a snake?
To suck dick with it.

>>51087809
Yeah, that's what I would recommend. Prehensile Tail, Maw, and now you've got a snake tail that can grab items and bite people.

>>51087578
>only

I don't think you realize how big that is.

>>51087813
As the anon who asked about the snake tail, no. My group doesn't do lewd games.
Though I wouldn't be opposed.

>>51087827
Yeah, sounds good! Now to just figure the class. Was thinking Alchemist or Bloodrager.

>>51087881
Pitborn tieflings make some pretty fucking outstanding Bloodragers.

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What's the memorable villain youve ever faced?

>>51087950

Man.

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>>51087950
General Ivan

Why doesn't high intelligence (or relevant attribute) affect prepared cantrips?

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DM is running a not 20, not 25, not 30 but 35 Point Buy for our characters. He's also running Gestalt. I'm unsure of what to build for this, since I've never had played any Gestalt games nor games that had point buy this high. I don't really care much about my role, though.

No 3pp allowed. Any class combos that are fun, powerful or both?

>>51088076
Slayer||Wizard? UC Monk gestalts well with anything that uses Wis, so Cleric, Inquisitor, Shaman, Empyreal Sorcerer.

>>51088091

Scaled Fist archetype lets him combo with cha classes as well. UC Scaled Fist Monk||Primalist Bloodrager can make for a sick combo.

>>51088076
to add to >>51088091
Scaled Fist further adds to the list of fun/good U.monk combos by changing the mental score dependency to Cha. Even if Wis is a more powerful stat, it's still fun being a suave Scaled Fist || Dervish Dancer Bard.

With the talk of Monks, I think I'll just ask this: Why do people hate Monks and why are they bad, Unchained or not?

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>party gets called to dispel an ancient curse
>one thing leads to another
>mfw my character finally as a moment of self-reflection as he is proceeding with an occult ritual learned from forbidden tome how to deal with this ritual, his ceremonial dagger on the throat of the live sacrifice
>"i have no idea what i doing"

>>51088340
Because they have a bunch of abilities that sound cool, but either actively hinder using each other or can be replicated with low-level spells. Fast movement, for instance, would make them ideal highly mobile combatants, but then to make any damage worth mentioning they have to stand still and exchange full-attacks with the enemy, thanks to relying on flurry of blows for the vast majority of their damage(and it isn't like they get access to pounce or anything natively, either).

Unchained monk is pretty decent, though.

>>51088390
NONE OF THESE MATTER IF YOU USE REVISED ACTION ECONOMY

PRAISE RAE
PRAISE IT FOOLS

>>51088340
Okay. Let's break it down.
To start, Monks are MAD. That's Multiple Ability Dependent. They need Strength for damage, Dexterity for AC and reflex saves, Constitution because everyone needs it, especially frontliners, and Wisdom for their class abilities. Most classes are reliant on two, maybe three abilities, full casters are pretty well known for only really needing one, which is why at low point buy those are the only viable options. Four is a bit absurd.

Now let's take a look at what the Chained Monk is supposed to do. Front line damage dealer, some cool abilities, and make use of Pathfinder's Combat Maneuver system. Now starting at the end, Combat Maneuvers are shit. At low levels, maybe you can make them work, but enemy CMD scales faster than your CMB can, and some enemies are simply immune to whatever you're trying to do. Want to trip? Too bad, your enemy is flying. So right there the Monk has lost an entire facet. The cool abilities... well, back when it was Core only it didn't really have anything good, though as more material's come out that problem's been alleviated quite a bit. As for dealing damage... Technically a monk can deal damage, yes. Just keep in mind that you have to stand still and flurry to do that.

The Unchained Monk solves a lot of the problems of the problems of Chained Monk by just giving it more stuff, basically. Full BAB, more flexible ki powers, and all of the stuff the Monk already had. Except for fast will saves. Because fuck you.

>>51088452

Plus the most important feature that he gets with unchained: Flying Kick style strike, allowing him to move and still get off all of his attacks in the same turn.

>>51088076
Perhaps, if you feel more Martial than Magical, a Swashbuckler/UnRogue?

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>>51087897
Ok, so, here is the idea I have.
Pitborn Tiefling, Maw or Claw (take maw) and Prehensile Tail.
11 levels Draconic Bloodrager
2 Levels in UC Scaled Fist Monk (Cha to AC, get Dragon Style and whatever other free feat of choice on top of Evasion, Imp Un Strike, etc)
7 levels Dragon Disciple
Take Finding Your Kin to add more HP and skills per level, and Pantheist for Know Religion (My 2 DM's allow Pre-Errata Divine Protection)
Power Attack, Dragon Ferocity, Elemental Fist, Divine Protection, Multi-Attack at later levels when I have Dragon Form.

I have 2 DM's that usually go 20-25 pt buy based on campaign.

Does this sound like an alright build? Any other feat choices I could add?

>>51088076
Just stick together two classes that are fun and use the same main stat.

High point buy means much less than people think.
You main two stats would already have been 16~18 under normal point buy, so extra just gives... what? One extra damage, extra skill points, HP, maybe +1~3 on saves?
The difference between 20PB and 32PB is fucking nothing compared to say, the difference between picking a cleric or a monk.

>>51088503
I'm really bad at assessing builds unless I have a full sheet in front of me, sorry. I'm sure someone else here can take a look, but my mind just blanks when I look at a list like that.

>>51088538
No worries, popped it off the top of my head so don't have a sheet prepped yet.

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>>51088372
Did your character read the ritual?

>>51088340
It costs more to enchant your fists.

>>51084716
No, but you would need 3pp to do it. Take >>51084978 and Martial Training (Thrashing Dragon).

Dragon DM here,

How are you folks this fine Sunday morning?

i have slept until i woke up naturally for the first time in over a week and i am ready to answer any questions you might have about the game, your characters, or in general.

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>>51088675
What need has the world for man when there exists dragon?

>>51088694

Dragons cant fit through doors. Fatty

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>>51088669
No, the party wizard did a rough translation of it
On the other hand, the wizard is oddly confident about the ritual being the right one.
Occult stuff, never again.

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>>51088675
I have not slept at all and I still have questions.

Do you prefer Taininim over DSP True Dragons?

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>>51088708
What need has the world for doors?

>>51087365
Both text and voice have their pros and cons, although I'd try out at least a session with text-only to see if the whole group would happen to enjoy it more than voice.

>>51088675
Do you allow good aligned ungermaw gestalt in your campaign?

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>>51088727
Why do you want to be a Rogue?

There might be a combination of archetypes from other classes you can use to work around the weaknesses and still play a thief-like character.

Sin Magic and Opposition Research

Does it work?

Do you ever really want to be a sin mage?

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>>51088795
sure,

>>51088731
i have more experience with Taninim dragons. thus more comfortable with them. don't let me dissuade you

>>51088857

Dragon DM! Dragon DM!

Do the crystals of the Demesne have any unique properties if you use them as weapons or armor? Can that crystal shit make you double immortal?

Is Culdranth a bitch?

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>>51089179

What are the essential level 2 Cleric spells? Just hit level three this weekend. Gotta get it together for our next dungeon crawl

Question: Why does everyone seem to hate the Metaforge? At higher levels, you gain an astral suit and soul blade that is just as good as when you started, and with the two feats, it's almost like a gestalt.

>>51089240
>Cleric
An incredibly flexible class. What role do you play in the party and who are the other party members?

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>>51089240
What kind of Cleric?

If you don't have a specific build, try Silence, Protection from E/G/L/C, and the spells that give enhancement bonuses to ability scores.

>>51089318
>>51089298
He plays the role of buffing the team and helping his paladin pal flank dudes so they can both start reaming away with their longswords. Once the action dies down, he uses his wand on teammates to satisfy their needs as well.

Longsword, Breastplate, and Bless kind of guy.

>>51088675

Can I make a robot dragon?

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>>51089395
I made an Archer Cleric the last time I played a Cleric.

Start here and look for Battle Cleric:

>https://docs.google.com/document/d/1W6dHso4mjE4WbO02366fY2YEjhP1pyR8gJvW6bqJILg/edit?hl=en
>https://docs.google.com/document/d/1I0F-WZEIhLjh3oPcm7Y0y1OJG0VHMf9XiT46b4mCRhM/edit?hl=en

It's outdated, but it can still help.

>>51088745
To keep the dragons out, duh.

Meme me on a country or region in Golarion that you really want to see a character come from, but people never do.

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>>51089598
How would you play a yōkai kitsune from Hwanggot?

How would you play a yōkai kitsune from Holomog?

How would you play a yōkai kitsune from Iblydos?

How would you play a yōkai kitsune from Arcadia?

How would you play a yōkai kitsune from Kelesh?

How would you play a yōkai kitsune from Vudra?

>>51089598
Numerians outside of Iron Gods. I want to see some crazy rusted out Furious Fred rejects with chainswords and a pet robot on some serious political intrigue or gothic horror adventure. Good fish-out-of-water stuff.

>>51089631

I would love to play a character like that, if only the Technological items weren't absurdly expensive.

>>51084661
My party's That Guy makes me wanna kill him, then myself, then come back and haunt everybody who even looks like him. I'm GM, by the way. He doesn't understand the game at all, and hasn't read a lot of the rulebooks, but he keeps quoting them out of context, or stating absolutes like he knows what he's talking about, despite being completely full of shit.

He's also just generally a super dick. I think I need to just outright tell my party that if he starts team killing again, to murder his shit and not care about the OOC consequences.

>>51089630

>Tian-Hwan women are traditionally soldiers and scholars

Oh my god I'm getting flashbacks to a nation in the World of Ice and Fire that believed those who make life are the only ones allowed to take it.

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>>51089663
You should have kicked him out earlier. How long has he been playing with you?

>>51089631
No one allows items you'd find in Numeria outside of Numerian campaigns though.

>>51089680
>>51089630

The thing I like about Hwan gender roles and don't like about Holomog is the explanation for gender roles being that way.

Like, I don't think I'm the only one that thinks "women are soldiers because [this] and men are farmers because [that], and these unusual circumstances are sustained because society at large is [thus]," rather than Holomog's gender roles LITERALLY being explained as, "women are soldiers and kangz because why not? What makes men so much better at it?"

If you're going for a non-traditional gender structure, at least give us a reason it turned out that way! It makes the setting that much richer and roleplaying that much sweeter!

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>want to join game
>game has 20+ applicants, space for a quarter of them.
>up against fully optimized builds, and weeks worth of backstory development

>>51089695
Entire party including me has only been playing for about 20 hours in total over 3 sessions. THis is all of our first campaigns, and I've been the GM from the start. I've also put in a shitload of effort making a campaign, learning the rules myself and also creating in house rules that cater to the party. We're all also new to Pathfinder and RPG's in general, but That Guy and I have both been LARPing for a while, so he's more comfortable with being a prick in character.


If I kick him out though, it won't be good. He's a friend of mine and a coworker to boot. Plus he's pretty tight with a lot of the LARPers I hang out with. Alienating him could very easily fuck me over.


Our party also has a This Guy, and she's a total bro who's helping me out learning the rules. I'm thinking of just telling her to make sure the party knows that if he tries team killing, they're free to kill him, and I'll make his precious character permakill.

>>51089783

The DM doesn't get involved with the memery, you have a solid shot of getting in if the character has personality!

>>51089783
Good luck senpai.

But why is it so important that you join this particular game?

ANyway, it's possible that the GM doesn't want to listen to 10 pages of how a character discovered his favourite berry. Just make sure your character is decent, and you have a chance.

>>51089783

Rule number one of trying to find a decent game:

Don't compete with the unwashed masses trying to get into a lewdgame. You will always have mountains of people trying to get in on that.

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>>51089831
You should go with what you're planning.

>>51089631

>tfw you will never play a Henderthane weapons dealer caught up in Iron Gods to secure production of futuristic weapons and gear
>tfw you will never get a laser monocle and subdermal enhancements

>tfw you will never become a posh Techno-Noble (Technoble.)

>>51089887
THanks for the confirmation. I'm still figuring out how to toe the line between handling issues, and being the dickish GM who tries to railroad the shit outta people.

What are some good uses for Martial Flexibility at later levels?

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Hey /pfg/
How can I do a paladin of my Lady using a sword and shield?

1pp and 3pp allowed I just wanna know if it is possible or am I stuck being a 2hander fore ver.

>>51090152
Yes, if you get prodigious two weapon fighting then you can use a greatsword and a tower shield at the same time.

>>51090161
Nice we usually don't use a lot of 3pp but we are starting need to save that feat. Thanks.

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I really, REALLY want to DM in a homebrew setting, but I have no idea where to start. Is it best for a noob DM to do the tried and true

'There's an evil lich and a whole host of other problems going on, why don't you go solve them? It'll take you to level 15-16.'

or should I be more original? I dislike Golarion, though I respect the setting, because I really prefer to do my own thing.

Another idea would be a city with some dungeons scattered around, then more cities with more dungeons around- could that make sense, too? I worry about that limiting roleplay potential, so all I seek is advice.

Got a question regarding the adopted trait.

Does that include stuff like attribute bonus?

>>51090244
Make it fun for your players. Let their characters affect the story.

Don't worry about being simple if your homebrew fits your players it will all be fine.

I would do an AP or module first but starting with a homebrew is not bad.

>>51090279
Nope. It only includes traits.

If you're Adopted by a Gnome, you could take the Excitable trait, for example, even if you were a halfling.

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>>51090244
Don't use a homebrew setting if you're new. The PCs will spend most of the time picking it apart.

Use one already built, and encourage the PCs to stay in one or two areas. Most countries have plenty of space for you to fill in the blanks yourself.

>>51090292
I can see the confusion, ability scores fall under the standard racial trait category.

>>51090279
No. It only means racial traits. As in traits (like Adopted) in the racial category.

See race traits:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/race-traits

So, are there any alternative classes other than Super Genius' Dragonrider if I want to be a dragon-riding dragoon? The lack of medium and heavy armor proficiency did not really agree with me and I dont really need the arcane spellcasting

>>51090152

Ordained Defender Warder!

>>51090294

>Methwood

>>51090314
Stupidly paizo uses the term traits for multiple things.

>>51090335
The elves are well known for their crystal exports

>>51090335
>Smoking Mountains
>The Methflow

>>51090319
I like this aswell I was hoping for a way to do it as a paladin but this can work.

Reminder that it only costs 9500 gp to fuse with a Pugwampi and gain their Aura of Unluck.

>>51090491
what

>>51088675
Right as I was about to fall asleep, I remembered some of the bullshit of my previous group, got pissed off, and couldn't fall asleep until after a good hour of being a cloaking missile asshole to whiny brats in Fractured Space.

>You can alter spells that grant a creature a movement type it doesn't normally have to increase the speed for that movement type by 10 feet.
What is this I don't even

>>51090531
Giving things a fly speed gives them a fly speed+10

>>51090292
>>51090314
Thanks
>>51090303
That.

>>51090541
Thanks.

So no improving haste.

>>51090497
Entice Fey costs 2000 GP to cast, summon a Pugwampi.

Costed as a "potion" that anyone can use, Permanent Fusion with Retain Ability costs 7500 to buy. The Pugwampi won't make the Will Save to resist more often than not.

Pull it off, and you can become a regular old "Bad Luck Charm."

>>51090578
Nope, because haste only works on modes of movement you already have.

>>51089631
knew a guy who played one. it was like mages trying to communicate with an engineer in starfleet. I liked it but it didn't go over too well with the others.

>>51090599
Neat, but I feel like you'd be obligated to buy the rest of the party a +1 luck bonus to something.

>>51089663
direct hostile acts like kender-theft, direct attacks (not even killing) or holding a partymember or his family hostage is cause for eliminating that character, soul and all, then and there.

there shouldn't have been ooc consequences threatened to begin with.

>>51089704
They're worthless even IN Numeria anyways compared to regular equipment, so you may as well allow, say, a SoP Armorist to do it.

I mean, would you rather the guy attacking touch-AC do 2d6 fire, or like 4d8 B/P with clustered shots and a shotgun?

>>51090670
What, are you telling me a 1d10 touch attack sword that deals 1/2 fire 1/2 lightning is useless on anything that ever has any resistances?

Having magical lineage and a metamagic feat with level 0...does it reduce the spell level?

Can you get dismissable grease as a cantrip?

>>51089749
Obviously it's because the women have reduced endurance, pain tolerance (yeah, the childbirth thing is a myth caused by 36+ weeks of preparing for it and producing natural morphine) and upper body strength in an army primarily built around melee and archery.
>ohwait

Oh, well, must be because men are out of comission for a handful of months a year because they're giving birth or weaning their offspri~
>ohwait

No obviously it's because women are always the best of friends and don't compete or fight like me~*social-backstab, backstab* and so will not have as many wars since those are caused by patriarchal aggression and not things like resources
>OHWAIT

>>51090689
No

>>51090677
I'd never tell you that...

But the rules might.

>>51090689
You can't reduce a spell below its original spell level, only its effective spell level after applying metamagic down to the original level. So you could Empower a fireball and keep it a level 3 spell, but you couldn't heighten it and drop it to a level 2 spell.

Does a druid's wildshape as a bison give him Stampede (Ex)? I was wondering if a Bison druid, with a bison companion and a summoned bison could perform a Stampede.

>>51090704
>>51090725
Pity.
On the topic of grease, can you light it up with a fireball, turning it into a burning surface?

>>51090740
No.

I have a question for the Dragon GM.
Does the campaign include Mythic Adventure rules?

>>51090773
gods please no they're horrible.

gestalt already does a finer job of 'being mythic' anyways, and that's saying something

>>51090786
But I wanted to spontaneously cast any spell from my spell list.

What if you use flaring spell with an admixture specialist wizard and chain your fireball into an acid ball. Does it still fizzle? The spell description hasn't changed, but due to your school you altered it on the fly.

>>51090793
half the applicants are like, kineticists or along those lines.

i don't think you need to worry about solving every situation forever on your own just to keep up.

>>51090803
You'd increase the spell level to cast it, but would gain no benefit.

>A furious spell that deals hit point damage adds twice the spell's original level to the amount of damage dealt by the spell.

I'm pretty sure I'm reading this wrong, since this is a +1 meta magic, but it sounds like double damage on a spell.

>>51090907
Spell level. A level 1 spell would deal 2 more damage, a level 9 spell would deal 18 more damage.

>>51090933
Oh...well, that's not nearly as useful.

Thanks.

>>51090700

Nigga, most of that shit will never come up in the mechanics or fluff so things like "they'll backstab" or "they don't have the upper body for it" are irrelevant.

The thing that gets me in a tussle is the utter refusal to even broach the subject by Crystal, that a society of feminine warriors is just as likely to crop up as a society that encourages male warriors because "shut up, shitlord." There are so many (SO MANY) cool ways you could explain why that society prefers women as soldiers over men, but as the common SJW would say, they "don't want to dialogue/conversation about it."

I want to talk about it! I want to figure out neat philosophical or practical reasons why Holomog wants female warriors over male! This is a conversation I want to have, and not even from the perspective of a man hostile to the idea, but a man that wants to know how the citizenry explains this non-traditional gender role!

"Only those who make life should be allowed to take it" is a FANTASTIC explanation for this, or "we castrate inadequate men upon adulthood, and the few we deem worthy become Great Fathers" works too!

>>51085310
I gamed with someone like that. It was awful. She is getting counseling now and is a lot more enjoyable to be around an to game with.

It turns out she was molested by her father a lot.

>>51090773
>>51090786

Mythic would be amazing for this campaign, there's ways to break the game with them but I'd suggest a gentleman's agreement to keep it from coming to that.

I really, really, really want to use stuff like Titan's Bane or Impossible Speed!

>>51091030
Doesn't legendary games have books on how to keep mythic from fucking your game?

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>realization that one of my PCs is so very close to being a JJ waifu
>temporarily dip to 8 Wisdom for fights because mutagen on investigator

I have miscalculated my meme energy and have inadvertantly fallen for the "8 wis waifu" meme.

>>51091015

>not treating war as a huge game because your gods are dicks

>not realizing that it's more fun when cute girls are the ones playing the game

>not ransoming back your now-pregnant daughters back after the war so that they can raise the next generation


"WE DON'T EVEN KNOW HOW BABIES ARE MADE IN THIS COUNTRY, THE GIRLS JUST COME BACK WITH DEAD EYES AND DON'T WANNA TALK ABOUT IT, AND AFTER THEY FIGHT, BABIES COME OUT"


Just like that one Island tribe that never figured out that sex causes babies, because all the people were just banging all the time: They figured babies just happened.

>>51091040
Your wisdom is low enough to be a JJ waifu.

>>51091040

Is she a spunky, CG twenty something that's single and ready to mingle?

>>51091040
>He hasn't gone for the coveted 5 Wis.
>He hasn't taken steps to ensure his Will Save remains good despite 5 Wis.

Come on, it's 2017 man.

>>51088076
Zen Archer + Conversion INquisitor is neat.

Any full caster + Fighter is fun.

Hybrid classes are a bit of a mess when gestating.

>>51091047

>The Great Fathers are kept in gilded cages, shut off from the rigors of working life to focus on scholarly pursuits and becoming good leaders
>Every year, a crop of the finest female warriors are allowed to conduct a "raid" on the Great Father's settlement and "take" the ones that pleases them the most

Is Kineticist shit-tier still? What are its weaknesses, how can you cover them?

>>51091121
Are you allowed to use 3p? If not, then yeah, still shit.

>>51091030
There are few ways it can NOT break the game.

Pretty much all of the spellcaster (archmage, the divine one, and even the psionic one) stuff is a highway to it, and even some of the fighter ones can do crap like make you permanently immune to even being hit by anything with an attack roll even if they nat-20.

The whole thing makes 3.5 epic spellcasters look 100% balanced.

>>51090700
Can you go and stay go? No one wants you, here or otherwise.

>>51091048
Well that's hardly fair anon. Mine is probably worse, considering I'm here.

>>51091072
>5 wis

The only time I did this was in an experiment to see how shit of a will save I could give a spunky female rogue NPC that would be used as a throwaway gag character.

Pretty sure I managed to get it to -6 at level 1, but I'd have to go back and check.

>>51091167
Agreed.

>>51091121
Its like playing an archer fighter, except you can fly all day and you can entangle/stunn when you hit things.

You also do like 1/2 the damage of a pure archer fighter, which IMO is a good thing.

>>51091121
1pp it's a trap, and its archetypes are designed to make you even worse. The Overwhelming Soul is probably the worst archetype in existence... Imagine if a wizard archetype said this:

>You are protected from running out of spells: You are no longer allowed to cast them at all, therefore now being safe from ever running out. In exchange this replaces your school powers.

>Once a day you can actually cast a spell. This replaces your arcane bond ability.

>>51084661
Golden hellcat/badger thing from another planet. Ostensibly a normal animal beyond just being a supremely effective extraterrestrial predator. Can anyone remind me what it's called?

>>51091157

I still don't see how that's a problem, I want to be strong!

>>51091193
Not being able to kill something 8-10CR beneath you without twin-meta by 20th on a composite physical blast with your whole round is fucking bad.

>>51091327
Quit trying to minmax you munchkin.

>>51091312
"let's literally guarantee the god-wizard problem because not everyone was pulling it off", the ability, is not 'being strong', it's making the GM give up in two sessions.

>>51091140

What are some good 3pp options for it? Any elements or such that stand out?

>>51091339
Only when you stop thinking that being effective is the same as minmaxing.

>>51091030
I do agree.
There is a lot of fun things one can do with mythic powers.

>>51091364
Why don't you actually try role-playing for once instead of just caring about mechanics. I bet you don't even think about your character shaving.

>>51091363
Kineticists of Porphyra 1-3, easily. Also Legendary Kineticists, they both make it into a working class. Or the playtest that's going on right now that has a reworked kineticist that's not ass.

>>51091389
I already explained this. My character intimidates his beard into compliance every morning.

>>51091428
I bet you don't even roll and role-play it out with your dm.

>>51091438
Pay up fuccboi. I describe it follicle by follicle.

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>>51091467

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>>51088857

Dragon DM! Dragon DM!

Who's your favorite applicant so far?

I'm playing a Living Legend Soulknife, and now that I'm level 3 I'm going to need to pick a defined role in the party. My group is a Fear-based Cavalier, an Antipaladin, an Asmodean Advocate Cleric, and a Death Sphere focused Incanter. What role isn't covered in this group? I could probably pull off a decent Trickster/Archmage.

>tfw a straight-from-the-bestiary creature of the correct CR is too hard for the party
their ACs mean nothing

>>51091671

Sure thing. My favorite applicant so far is You, I love you.

>>51091671

Don't ask that, it's mean! That's like asking a mother if they have a favorite child!

>>51088675
What the heck are you running?

>>51091802
They all do.

If she didn't tell you it was you, it was someone else.
I hope that doesn't suddenly put a lot of your life into perspective, anon.

>>51088221
I would prefer not to play a Bard, but would a Merfolk Scaled Fist UnMonk/Sorcerer gestalt be any good? I plan on taking the Strongtail racial adjustment and we start at level 3, so that's 25ft movement speed in exchange for bonuses to all scores I need aside from Strength (which I can point buy).

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>>51091809

dis

https://app.roll20.net/lfg/listing/65144/of-dragons-and-yet-more-dragons

i hope you like scales, Immense ladies and huge Horns

>>51091816
Oh, I know I'm not her favorite. Still, at least I'm not my sister, which is comforting.

>>51091827

nah, thats perfectly fine. Monk is one of the few classes that doesnt care for the gimped movement of merfolk. In return, you get great natural AC bonus and of course a ton of ability bonus scores.

>>51091961
You mean eventually doesn't care.

>>51088857

Dragon DM! Dragon DM!

Excluding Culdranth, who is the thickest (proportionally) NPC in the Demesne? Who is the most "active?"

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>>51092023

Well thickest is Fredericka, the Import Merchant as she's actually obese.

The most "active"? Is probably Culdranth herself. if by active you mean sexy time.

If not, then probably Liaoxen'tu, The Self Proclaimed Duchess of the Forum Arena. She's pretty sporty.

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>>51092073

What happened to that princess game?

>>51091816
>tfw I used to be the favorite
>Now I'm just the one they don't worry about

>>51091847
Tempted to try and make a mormon housewife paladin, but I probably need to stop before I hurt myself.

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>>51092073

Oh wait excluding. Umm... Probably Little Sun, The Theurge. As un-official Chaplain of the Demesne, She takes care of many of the citizen's "Problems" Pic related

The owner of The Roost, Tavern and Inn. Culdranth's eldest daughter who's yet to move out. Belleniqua.

>>51092087

you wanted an answer.

>>51092151
No, I'm not the poster. I'm just tired of all the fucking fetish pictures.

>>51092160

what fetish?

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>>51092171

>>51092090
Wasn't intended to be run, the "DM" was someone using the novel framework of a housemate that left his account signed in. The actual account holder said he'd run it in the future but wasn't planning on running anything for strangers at the time.

How large should one make a mercenary company? In this case one with a long history that is currently down on their luck. I've seen a lot of numbers ranking anywhere from 1000 soldiers to 15000 soldiers.

>>51092073

>Fredericka

I was, uhh... Asking more "Kingdom Death" than Burger!

Ooh! Ooh! Dragon DM!

Could you add Mythic to the rules, or maybe up the PB to better reflect the power of Culdranth's children, or maybe the innate energies of the Demesne!

Sex with a Mythic is probably far more potent than a normal, too!

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>>51092262
It's just a matter of finding the right portal.
Just poke your head through.

>>51092322
>Sex with a Mythic is probably far more potent than a normal, too!
I fucking hate this general.

Does a Destruction caster need a straight shot to enemy, or can allies be in the way?

>>51092356
Doesn't allies in the way just give them partial cover?

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>>51092322

maybe later.

have a consolation prize of one of Culdranth's Grand children.

>>51092126

That sounds like a load of fun, what would a Mormon housewife entail?

>>51092262
Evergrove probably.

>>51092356
>>51092383
Yes. If you're at range then your Destructive Blast gets partial cover, just like any other ranged touch attack.

>>51090599
>allowing advanced talents
You dug your own grave.

>>51092452
Remind me what partial cover does?

>>51092504
Did you hear? Spheres of Might is going to allow people to do hercules level shit with optional legendary talents. Soon I'll be able to lift stuff up and kill a lion!

>>51092439
Educated, capable, dutiful, obedient, and ready at any moment to drop everything and go spend the rest of her life barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen.

>>51092504
Advanced Talents should be on a talent-by-talent basis.

>>51092527
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/combat#TOC-Cover

Wow, somebody actually took the idea we had last week of making a 7 foot tall croc-man to keep Onryou sexually sated to heart and made one.

>>51092542

Paladin of Erastil || Bard (Negotiator.)

She can sing, she knows basically everything, packs a mean right hook, and has a way with words that can put even the brattiest child in their place!

>>51092660
Gebrek first got posted in the character discussion thread 3 weeks ago.

>>51092660
Two people apparently. Both Gebrek and Skarp seem to fit the bill.

>>51092504
>Digging my own grave.
>Implying I'm not the PC who's giddy about this character.
>Implying my GMs didn't approve my master plan.

>>51092667
Given the subject of the game, dragon-cultist seemed more appropriate.
But I'm incompetent at building even without this gestalt nonsense, long discouraged from playing martials in PF, and wouldn't get chosen anyway.

>>51092736
Didn't realize that, sorry.

>>51092791
I'll have to look at Skarp again but he didn't particularly jump out at me as Onryou-bait.

>>51092791

>The only characters that could satisfy Onryou have two dicks

What did he mean by this?

Can't you people go make a #scaly or #erp or go to /trash/ or something.

>>51092807

Well, she could be a Taldan or Thuvian girl that got taken into the Demesne, or at the least have some very traditional views on what women are expected to do in society.

There's nothing wrong with martials! If you make her sweet and proper you'll have fun, the other players will have fun, and she'll get picked; the DM wants large personalities, and she sounds like she has spunk to spare!

Bardadins are extremely powerful, too.

>>51092858
>Bardadins are extremely powerful, too.
What?

I really have no idea about how gestalt works, can you break it down for me?

>>51092531
I am pretty sure that when they mentioned Hercules, they were talking about shit like literally picking up a river.

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>>51092791
>>51092817
Upon further inspection, yes it appears Skarp is also based on this meme. At least we know that he and Onryou probably both long for somebody to cuddle.

>>51092888

Gestalt means you take two classes and level up in them simultaneously. You gain the class abilities of both, and you take the best of the skill points per level, hit dice, BAB and Saves.

>>51092920
Given Meyer's views I somehow doubt that.

>>51092794
Have fun always being staggered with -4 AC -4 Reflex until you can make the Pugwampi mind agree to let you have control of the body.

>>51092888
Really anything that has two different specialties off of the same stat is powerful. Bard and Paladin get a lot of different things off of Charisma, (Paladin gets damage and saves, Bard gets spells and Perform skills), so Bardadin works. Another important thing to take into account is whether you can use both of your classes abilities at the same time, usually by having one class be a lot of passive bonuses, like feats and saves and the like. Paladin and Bard get along in that way pretty well.

>>51089179
Hey Luaaaaaaa.

How's it feeeeeeel?

To be forever aloooooone?

>>51092995

She's had around six hundred or so children, and has a new fervent lover every five years. She's a proud grandmother and loves her children greatly!

She just can't be assed to figure out who is who anymore.

Are there any pawn set pdfs floating around that aren't in the Mega troves? Thinking Heroes and Villians, Villians Codex or the PF Society Collection

>>51092841
>#scaly

Yes, please.

>>51092841
The fact that we don't have a discord for this yet is surprising.

Who would join?

>>51093389
Maybe once we know who the actual players will be

>>51093429
You say that like a discord wouldn't lead to games for those that didn't get in.

>>51093501
Didn't someone already make one for the thread?

>>51093389
>discord
>software with voice chat built in

God, no.

>>51093521
You don't have to join the voice chat, most people don't.

>>51093513
There's a Rizon for RotJR

>>51093083
DragonGM?

Why 7 players? Are you crazy?

>>51093573

Six players, and yes i am crazy.

>>51093586
>Total Players Needed: 7
Does that include you, or what? I can understand recruiting for 7 when you want 6 under the assumption three will no-show, and you've warned everyone it's first-come, first-serve, and all that, but six players is still fairly crazy.

Do you have more setting information somewhere? Or word on this tianhan draogn nonsense?

>>51093586

Dragon DM, what would be your ideal male PC assuming you had a say in appearance, personality, build and kinks?

>>51088503
Seems good to me, although Elemental Fist is a bit lacking in comparison to everything else.

>>51093651
I have 7 players, not including me, and it makes balance a fucking nightmare.

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>>51093651
Yeah this includes me. Roll20 counts you as a player.

Oh right is basically Golorian with a custom semi-extradimentional space as a homebase/starting area that is simultaneously in Southern Thuvia and Eastern Taldor.

The Tanimin dragon race is basically being fluffed as you being mutants and having a variable "Breed"

I should probably put up a document or something about that.

>>51093654
Me personally?

Slight build, wiry muscles, large slappable ass. Excitable and a tad cocky. likes hand holding

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>>51093774
>Large slappable ass

My brother

What kind of gestalt do you do with a rogue? Is wizard, ranger, or bard the only options?

>>51093961

You could also go Slayer, Fighter or even Paladin; Rogue is defined by sneak attack, talents and tons of skills!

>>51093774

>That spoiler

I'm making that! He's pretty firmly straight, though!

Also 32 PB best PB for superior dragonmensch.

>>51093961

Inquisitor, cleric, warpriest, monk, and hunter all work well with ranger

>>51093961
Generally, how people do Gestalt is they pick a caster class and a martial class of some sort. Monk/Cleric or Paladin/Sorcerer for instance.

For Rogue, I would go with Magus, honestly. Make people explode with your shocking grasp sword while you sneak attack them.

>>51094064

I meant Rogue, not ranger. My bad

>>51094073

>tfw I despise caster classes and always go martial/support or martial/martial

>>51094008
I recommend Hunter. Get some casting and a decently powerful flanking buddy that doesn't depend on another player to manage it.

Do these two archetypes stack

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/alternate-classes/antipaladin/archetypes/paizo---antipaladin-archetypes/insinuator-antipaladin-archetype

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/alternate-classes/antipaladin/archetypes/paizo---antipaladin-archetypes/tyrant-antipaladin-archetype

If so, what if I added this one to the mix

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/alternate-classes/antipaladin/archetypes/paizo---antipaladin-archetypes/dread-vanguard-antipaladin-archetype

Tell me about the biggest case of lawful stupid you've ever seen.

If you look in the last thread I posted my level 6 gestalt with an Unchained Rogue/Holy Gun Paladin, granted the build is made with a modern firearm but you can easily still use it with an older one if you so desire.

My favorite part of the build is that I've managed to be able to snipe with 0 penalties to my stealth, it's awesome.

>>51094073
>>51094064
>>51094008
It makes sense. I've been wanting to try and make a kitsune rogue who uses the fluffy tail feet for infinite spell like abilities but continually insists he doesn't know anything about magic or have any magic powers.

Doesn't sound like it's that good to do with a gestalt if I'm basically obligated to combine with a caster class (he'd actually BE a caster then) but the reasoning makes decent sense. (Arcane strike+sneak attack damage instagibbing people.)

>>51094136
Sorry bud, you can't do two archetypes of the same class in the same build.

>>51094167
I always thought you could.

I owe my DM an apology.

>>51094094
Yeah, I feel you. I can't play Vancian casters anymore.

>>51094167
>>51094170

No you can, You can stack as many Archetypes as you want, provided they dont change the same class features.

>>51094148
>you're not actually allowed to dislike that, since it's legal.

>>51094167
Why do you tell lies?

>>51094182
Really? I could have sworn you couldn't, although I may have just assumed that since so many of the archetypes change the same features so you can't mix them together.

>>51094167

What? Yes you can. There is even a guide to stacking the core class archetypes.

>>51094136
Inisinuator doesn't stack with tyrant iirc. Tyrant does stack with Dread Vanguard.

>>51094148

A character once demanded that my Paladin "fall" because he cut down a Goblin that had a chance to surrender.

I was like, "Dude, goblins are hardly better than animals" and the other guy just went off about Lawful Good Goblin Paladins and all that bullshit you'd expect from someone fresh out of Warcraft.

>>51091327
I don't believe your example is actually true.

>>51094136
As an ACTUAL answer to your question

Insinuator stacks with neither of them. Tyrant and Vanguard are okay though.

>>51094167
>>51094211
www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/class-archetypes
Under Archetype "Stacking." You explicitly can

>>51094148
"Are you entirely sure, anon? He is the mayor of this city, I don't think we are allowed to do this."

He says straight faced as we watch the said mayor commit acts that would make Lamashtu and Nocticula blush.

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>>51094260
>as we watch the said mayor commit acts that would make Lamashtu and Nocticula blush.

That combination has some unpleasant connotations.

>>51094258
Huh, so you can. Neat.

>>51094136
Look at the individual features: most importantly the "this alters/replaces/changes/etc X" part of the abilities.

Unless an ability specifically says it does not lock out other archetypes for changing this (this you'll generally see just on, say, a change of what class skills you get or sometimes proficiencies), you CANNOT stack any archetypes that would affect the same ability.

In your case:
First, you'll have to abide by the Tyrant restriction: things like drawbacks,codes,etc stack too. So you HAVE to be lawful evil, and so on.

Insinuator and Dread Vanguard both affect Spells. They cannot be taken together.

Insinuator and Dread Vanguard both affect Aura of Sin. They cannot be taken together.

Insinuator and Tyrant affect Fiendish Boon, but the Insinuator does not have a statement of alteration. They MAY be compatible.

Tyrant and Dread Vanguard have no overlaps whatsoever. The two can be taken together, following all of their individual rules and restrictions.

>>51094217
>>51094246
>>51094333

Yeah I was hoping I was missing something. Thank you.

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Right boys! I'm off to work. Application for the game end the 18th. Be sure to make a submission before then. Focus on making something entertaining rather then effective.

I wanna see a Dragon as the pic in the next OP.

Dont let me down, i love you all.

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>>51094370

We love you too!

>>51094370
Don't come back. Stop shitting up the threads. Your game has single handedly changed this from the Pathfinder thread to the thread about your game. Kill yourself.

>>51094333
Insinuator and Dread Vanguard both alter alignment/CoC. Can't be taken together.

>>51094418
They also more importantly ditch spells, man.

Insinuator ditches it for feats, vanguard ditches it for THE SHADOWS IN MY SOUL.

>>51094414
Yeah, cuz all those OTHER non-dragongame-related posts in this thread? They don't exist. At all.

What are the pros and cons of monk weapons over unarmed strikes?

Does desperate battler work while mounted or is your mount an ally?

>>51094418
>>51094469
Woops, meant Insinuator and Tyrant.

>>51094509

Slight damage boost in the early levels. Some rules say you substitute unarmed damage for the weapons damage, so fluff.

What's the best class to gestalt with Synth Summoner to be the greatest dragon knight ever?

>Always in fused form as big, badass knight that never takes off his armor
>Actually a cute girl with no strength to speak of
>Most people will never know

>>51094414
>Your game has single handedly changed this from the waifunigger thread to the thread about Pathfinder.
Fixed that for you

>>51094469
>Yeah, cuz all those OTHER non-dragongame-related posts in this thread? They don't exist. At all.

I'd rather have one source of cancer than two.

>>51094277
It was an event specifically designed to push the buttons on a fetish player who makes thicc posters and kitsune posters cringe at the lack of self awareness. In short the mayor was doing Pazuzu a favor for a favor by insulting Lamashtu directly by binding her recently born native plane babies and if possible impregnate them with a Pazuzu "blessed" peen. If thta wasn't possible then the friendly neighbourhood Dominion scouts (Main bad guys of the campaign) were more than happy to use these creatures as surrogate wombs for a new breed of nasty. Either birth was always a miscarriage and then the corpse would be given to a demon to directly deliver to Lamashtu as an insult. Rinse and repeat until PCs enter the fray to find him for once indulging himself on the fun with a swaithe which included a few surgical tools and an eager audience of Neh-Thalggus taking notes and encouraging what they saw.

>>51094572
Sure, but we're at 3 so might as well have a party.

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>>51094638
>indulging himself on the fun with a swaithe
Swaithe, Barnsley?

>>51094638
>Consorting with demons.
>Filthy Dominion xenos.

[100% PURGING MAD]

>>51094242
You're an idiot or a goddamn liar, then.
Average monster HP of CR10/11/12: 130/145/160

Kinetic Blast Lv20:
Energy Simple 10d6
Physical Simple 10d6+10
Energy Composite 20d6
Physical Composite 20d6+20

Add in 6 burn for +12 damage, and our averages are 47/57/82/102 respectively. This assumes a hit, too; accuracy drops sharply against regular AC.

But we do have metakinesis available.
Empower makes Overflow 18 and also affects the physical bonus.
This gives us 15d6+18 / 15d6+33 / 30d6+18 / 30d6+48
For values of 70.5 / 85.5 / 123 / 158
As seen here only a composite physical blast deals enough to take out CR-9 (and not enough for the level 20 to kill a CR-8) on a hit.

In order to start killing these targets, we need either a second volley (quicken and/or twin) or empower+maximize on composites.

The best performance you can do is Twinned Quickened blasts and Twinned normal blasts, in the same turn. However, with +7 burn just from metas (before reductions) on one and +4 on the other, you are quickly heading into "max burn acceptance per round" territory, on a character who already has taken 6. You may even have 7 instead for the final size bonus, and marginally more damage per hit, but not enough to change the brackets out.

What do GMs feel when party is murderhobo and kills any character they spent any effort to make personalities and backstories for?

>>51094782
dominion is love, dominion is life
Crashed Numerian starships were fleeing the Dominion, right? Sabotaged by intellect devourers, footsoldiers and infiltrators of the definitely-not-illithids?

>>51094819
Annoyance.

Especially when their justifications are clearly meta-game knowledge and not in-character.

>>51094899
How about IC apathy?

>>51094819

As a GM I only have fun if my players are having fun. If murderhoboing is what makes them have fun, then they get to murderhobo. Yeah it sucks they just torpedoed my NPC but they are just NPCs. They shouldnt really be more heroic than the PCs to begin with so I shouldnt have put that much thought into them to begin with.

Plus I can always use a similar personality again with a different body.

>>51094823
The Dominion is a vast conglomerate of aberration species. Basically the Androffan fleet stumbled into that empire's vast territory and got attacked by insanity inducing bio-weaponry.

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>>51094819
Make no NPC you wouldn't like to see broken, beaten, and their hopes, dreams, future prospects snuffed out because some self righteous murderers wanted their possessions or for other petty reasons.

>>51094807
Na i just made one for level 12 and it's damage was squarely in the "acceptable" range, and it had some good all-day flying along with stunning or entangleing effects on each blast.

https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/43294723/#43300120

I'm not really interested in level 20, and think that we really shouldn't try to compare classes based on what they can do at level 20.

>>51095017
>for an average of 76 damage.
>76 damage is joke tier by level 12 and is what a generic Fighter archer was doing 2 levels ago with a less incremented Weapon Training, no GWS, one less iterative, and without Haste. It takes you three rounds to take out an equal-CR enemy in a game where you should be killing them in two tops and preferably one.

>All you succeeded in doing was proving that the Kineticist is shit.

>>51094807
>6 burn for 12 damage
IF you are trying to show the barbarian is shit, then claim that a vital stirke barbarian doesn't do damage, we will laugh at you.

Likewise, when you spend your free 6 burn per attack on nothing, you reveal that you are arguing in bad faith and we can just ignore you.

>>51094819
Depends on the type of session. If the campaign is clearly trying to go for the route of "these people are valuable to your time and to those around them" then being a murderhobo is incredibly annoying and it's a pain trying to break that behavior in a way that doesn't feel like you're just punishing the player for playing how they want.

If, on the other hand, the session is BUILT to allow for murderhobo-ness then I see little reason for there to be a problem.

All of that said, nothing annoys me more than a character who's supposed to be a good guy who also cuts down opponents that either aren't a threat to them or is simply being a nuisance. Either be honest and change your alignment to fit your character or change your playstyle to fit the setting dangit. We yell at cops all the time for shooting those who can't fight back, why not hold our L or G characters to the same standard?