>He actually was practically prince of the halflings LotR thread.

>>51051483
LotR thread?

So, are these basically the areas of habitation after the War? Where people lived, though some areas were held, but uninhabited, by other lands.

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>>51052118

>>51051483
It still stings that they never did the cleansing of the Shire.

>>51052140
What were you thinking when you used unreadable red like that?

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>>51052118
>>51052140
>orcs
>people

>>51052698
Sorry, don't know how to do two-colored fonts in paint.
>>51052707
Close enough. I mean, we consider abos people.

Where do halflings go when they die anyway?

>>51053195
Beyond the circles of the world.

>>51052731
>we consider abos people

Speak for yourself

>>51053195
Frodo and Sam mention the name Elbereth (Varda) a couple of times; they probably go to her house, spending their time in maximum comfort.

>>51053195
Aren't halflings just a short not yet offshoot branch of humanity? I'd assume that means they go to the same place as regular humans.

>>51053457
Isn't that what you carve on the floor to deter undead?

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>>51053591
Barely.

>>51053195
They have the Gift of Men so their souls go out of Arda. Afterlife is simple in Middle-Earth, elves fuck off to Valinor for the rest of the world's existence, knockoff races like dwarves or ents go nowhere at all as their souls were essentially lended to the Vala that created them, and mortals that don't fit in the previous category have the Gift of Men. Orcs possibly go to Valinor too but Tolkien didn't like thinking about orcish souls.

>>51053591
>undead
Lots of monsters respect Elbereth. It's easier to list the kinds that won't.

Also that's based off people repeatedly using Elbereth's name to scare the ringwraiths away

>>51056068
Would they go to valinor as orcs or in their original untortured elf form?

>>51057440
Yes, but full of Orc memories. Also, orcs birthed greater populations than all other elves, and thus vastly outnumber the living population of valinor

>>51057677
do the latest generations of orcs even have souls?

>>51051483
Does Stephen Colbert ever post in these threads?

>>51056068
Oh, that seems unfair for dwarves, eagles, and ents.

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>>51052140

Aren't there a few Dwarven settlements in the Blue and Grey Mountains?

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>>51056068

How do you know that Dwarven souls go nowhere? Didn't Eru Ilúvatar adopt the dwarves and give them true life? The dwarves themselves even believe they have a separate place in the Halls of Mandos set aside for them.

>>51052140
>No Beornings and Woodmen
>No Dalishmen
>No Blue Mountain Dwarves
>Assumption that Bree-people are the only remnant of entire population of Arnor and not just the one that was mentioned because hobbits passed through it
>Mirkwood Elves claiming entire forest and not just the northern part
>Assuming people of Rhun are a proper ethnicity and not mix of various eastern cultures, and that the ones of the western part are Asian

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>>51058052
and that Aule will call upon them to craft the next world. How many of the seven clans of dwarves actually appear in the books?

>>51058249
Dwarf named and primary characters from the First Age to the Fourth are all from the Longbeards however armies of all the clans came together for the War of the Dwarves and Orcs. The vengeance of all dwarves for Azog's insult to the kin of Durin.

They say their souls go to Aule's hall however no official, authorial word about them was published. It's unlikely they leave the world though it is also super unlikely they don't go anywhere or don't have souls. So my money is on Aule's halls.

>>51058172
Make another, then.
Also, I thought the other dwarves were chased out by dragons.

>>51057770
I believe Tolkien said in a letter once that Orcs are trapped in Arda, and will eventually decay into poltergeists.

>>51061714
That was things like the barrow wights, you're conflating that with what he said happened to Orcs after Sauron was defeated where Orcs, without strong central leadership would fade into being tribal barbarian menaces but never fully threaten people again. Elves would become forest fae with much the same fading but less actively malevolent and vicious.

>>51061892
I mean, I'm pretty certain he said orcs would fade into poltergeists by the "modern age".

So, do non-men just go completely extinct by the modern age, or do their civilizations just become minor in Middle-Earth, but stay strong back across the sea?
And do you think the Entwives came back?

>>51062200
Non humans go to Valinor, go extinct, go into hiding, breed true with men or become spirits of the forest and hills.

No, entwives died when the blasted lands got their name.

>>51062278
>become spirits of the forest and hills.
But what does this mean? They're ghosts? They still exist, but stay out of international affairs and spook men away from their lands?
And do we know what happened to the Entwives, or did he completely leave it before he died? Were there no Ents across the sea, to send a few Entwives over?

>>51062464
It means what it means. They're the fae and fairies and all things that make you want to leave a place of nature cause you, somehow, think you're trespassing on something or someplace you just shouldn't be. Ever had that feeling? Walk into a glade or particular dell on a hike and get this feeling of "I shouldn't be here, this place isn't for me/this place is holy/this place doesn't want us." ? That's an elven or dwarven spirit saying, "get the fuck out human."

There are probably ents and entwives in Yavanna's forests but, like, 6 people have left physical heaven for middle earth. It's not a popular thing to do.

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is there an "extended universe" being written ?
Its sad we don't have any comics for example.
Is there something on top of Hobbit/Lotr/The Silmarillion ?

>>51062539
I wish his son wrote more.
>>51062536
So, ghosts?

>>51062539
Maybe after Christopher kicks it.

But for now if you want stuff outside of shitty livejournal fanfic you've got The Last Ringbearer (which is shit for its own revisionist reasons) or derivative homages that are different settings (Shannara).

>>51062598
If your only reference for spirit is "remnant of a dead being" then yes. They're ghosts.

But remember the Holy Spirit/Holy Ghost is a spirit that never was mortal once. Spirits don't have to be remnants of mortal beings.

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>>51051483
>tfw your realize Sam is the most pure Paladin to ever adventure

>>51062539

Please god do not let that happen. Christopher's works are already difficult to find merit in. The mishmash of whatever lowest bidding authors that have no guaranteed grasp of the setting that most extended universes have is bad. The never ending cashcow bullshit of committee designed, producer driven Cinematic Universes is also terrible.

>>51062846
It should just be legal for anyone to make their own, though most would ignore the shitty ones.
Think about the fights over who's writings better extended Tolkiens works.

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>>51062673
>Sauron tempts him with his greatest desire
>Shows the world blooming into a beautiful garden
>Sam decides it would be a lot of work for one Hobbit to maintain, doesn't succumb

Absolute madman.

>>51058003
I think there are settlements in the Blue mountains but the ones in the Grey mountains were mostly eliminated by dragons.

>>51062673

Duuuuddeee.

Wait, in the tower after Frodo was poisoned and taken, Sam uses his shadow to scare the orcs. Is that a paladin spell?

>>51062673
What's his religion?

>>51052140
Okay, so, Dale, Carrock, Eagles, Blue Dwarves.

>>51063101
That's plain old raw determination and wit son, a real Paladin does it without overt divine aid.

>>51063127
Being a Hobbit, duh. Did you read how fucking into hearth and home these shits are? They'll murder a fallen angel to secure another day of pipe weed, a big bowl of stew, and Rosee's big halfling ass.

>>51051744
LotR thread.

>>51063101
>>51063164
The exact quote is "a great silent shape, cloaked in a grey shadow, looming against the wavering light behind; in one hand it held a sword, the very light of which was a bitter pain, the other was clutched at its breast, but held concealed some nameless menace of power and doom"
Which leads me to believe the Ring had something to do with it.

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>you'll never be a well-off hobbit heir of your uncle's find underground estate
>you'll never chillax on cool summer's eves with your hobbit buddies, drinking ale and smoking whacky tobaccy aka old toby
Release me from this prison.

>>51063685
>tfw you'll never be thainheir
>tfw never win mayoral election
>tfw never make a better government system for the shire and introduce inventions like watches, looms, musicboxes, etc.
>tfw never be remembered as a Great
Why even live?

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>>51064165
>Where now the horse and the rider? Where is the horn that was blowing?
>Where is the helm and the hauberk, and the bright hair flowing?
>Where is the hand on the harpstring, and the red fire glowing?
>Where is the spring and the harvest and the tall corn growing?
>They have passed like rain on the mountain, like a wind in the meadow;
>The days have gone down in the West behind the hills into shadow.
>Who shall gather the smoke of the dead wood burning,
>Or behold the flowing years from the Sea returning?

>>51064217
WHY CAN'T MIDDLE-EARTH BE REAL?
Fucking reality.
At least we share this feel.

>>51064439
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pISzxdEgDCU

>>51064592
Do you think Durin ever awakened?

How is MERP? I'm not really a fan of The One Ring RPG.

>>51063685

Hobbits are living life on easy mode compared to most races in ME.

I mean Humans are constatnly getting fucked over by Orcs and Easterlings, Dwarves and Elves have their own problems.

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Recently I've been planning to run a game in Beyond the Wall, and while I doubt I could (or would want to) emulate LoTR perfectly, I do want to try and capture that sense of loss and melancholy that's entwined with the wonder of Middle-Earth.

I know it's a tall order, and I do have a few ideas myself, but does anyone know how I could try and build that feeling into the game?

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>>51064592

>yfw durin wakes again

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>tfw you will never live long enough to see Rhun become independent again

Dunedain fucking shits, Middle-Earth for the Men of Darkness

DoM has some really neat worldbuilding

>tfw drinking wine
Who /dorwinion/ here?

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>>51065078

>>51051483
Reminder that the Valar are assholes who love elves but hate humans.

>>51065838
Elves are like the Jews. God's chosen people.

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>>51052140
Fixed?

>>51064735
That was Tolkien's point. That a bunch of content, fat country bumpkins can change the world AND remain fat and content afterwards. It's a paean to the disappearing pastoralism of Tolkien's Britain.

>>51062536
I had that feeling once in a high school gym room, i don't think it necessarily means spirits..

>>51066724
By organized, I mean having one general leader, living in more than tribes, you know?
Like, while the Ents live alone and not in some great government, they have a leader, and an Entmoot, and have as much government as they need, you know?

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>>51062986
if taking his ring is just too much effort any attempted seduction will fail
>>51066752
except for frodo, who really couldn't unsee those horrors from the somme

>>51057800
Who's to say that OP isn't Stephen Colbert?

Anyone have that SJW LotR pic? With the gender and race changing?

>>51067686
I prefer not to save things I feel lacking of any real merit, and had put that image out of my mind entirely. Now reminded of it, I can't help but realize it's irritating qualities all over again.

>>51052140
So, what is Angmar exactly? A remnant of Angband? A place that's further south? I'm not sure how the Third Age geography matches up to the geography of the Simarilian.

What's a female hobbit? Not a woman. What's the name? Just girl or lady?

>>51066754
kek

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>>51067686

I don't have it, but I do have some cool non-SJW art.

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>>51068096

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>>51068109

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>>51067874
see Ered Luin on this map? The northern portion of this chain corresponds with the Blue Mountains on this map >>51052140. As you can see, almost everything else is underwater.


Meanwhile the Grey Mountains here >>51052140 are part of the Iron Mountain chain from the 1st age (the old chain would swing North East from here >>51052140 so the part of the chain featured in Beleriand, and Angband, is to far north to be displayed on my map).

Angmar is simply a stronghold established by the Witch King north of Arnor. It didn't have any preexisting settlements to build off, apart from a fuck ton of goblins that live up in the northern Misty Mountains

>>51065838
valar are assholes who dont give a single fuck about elves or humans or dwarves or whatever
except for Ulmo, hes great

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>>51068123

>>51067874
It likely borrows its name from Angband, which translates into 'Iron Prison.' 'Ang-' means 'Iron' while '-mar' means 'Home,' so 'Angmar' is 'Iron Home.'

Angmar was a kingdom founded by the first of the Nazgûl and used as a staging ground for wars launched against the three human kingdoms of Arnor, Arthedain, Rhudaur, and Cardolan. It successfully replaced the royal line of Rhudaur with a hill chief allied to Angmar, invaded and destroyed Cardolan and slew the king of Arthedain and eventually conquered its capital after centuries of conflict. All of Arnor fell to Angmar.

Shortly after his complete conquest, a general of Gondor gained the assistance of the elves of Grey Havens, the surviving men of Arnor and the armies of Rivendell under Glorfindel. The Witchking of Angmar fled to Gondor and left his kingdom leaderless, allowing it to quickly be crushed.

After Angmar's fall, all that were left were scattered towns in the Southern reaches (one of which is Bree) and small troupes of Dúnedain that lived in the wilderness, who became known as Rangers of the North.

Arnor was only brought back to glory during the reign of King Elessar, better known as Aragorn or Strider. He brought about the Reunited Kingdom of Arnor and Gondor, also known as the Two Kingdoms.

>>51068129
Why did such a massive amount of land sink?

>>51068175
War of Wrath. Shit went down on a divine level

>>51068188
>>51068156
Well damn. Thanks for the information guys.
Did Gondolin sink, or is there some remnant of it in the Third Age?
Part of me wants to assume Gondor due to similar naming schemes, but I doubt that's true.

>>51068205
Gondolin is on this map >>51068129 near Taur-nu-fuin. Basically everything east of the Ered Luin (so almost the entire map) is under water.

Gon, from memory, means stone, and the are entirely unrelated (well, thematically they are somewhat related)

>>51068228
Fair enough, thanks again for the information

>>51068156
>fled to Gondor

Correction, fled to Mordor.

>>51068096
>non-SJW
>every single fucking character has a Tumblr nose
Are you shitting me.

>>51068263
it's a cold day

>>51068263

Are you really so fragile that you're triggered by a nose when nothing else about the piece is remotely SJW-ish?

>>51065079
Unofficial map.

>>51068263
You're confusing "SJW" with "Tumblr art" this is an easy mistake to make, since much tumblr art is SJW crap, but some Tumblr art, despite sharing many of the same...stylistic choices as most Tumblr art, is not SJW crap.

>>51068263
Contrary to popular belief, Tumblr did not invent that nose. They just use it stupidly fucking often for everything.

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>ywn speak with Tolkien

>>51068394
>Implying I want to speak with a luddite.
He'd probably "politely" talk shit about my life style, and how much time I spend on the internet.

>>51068394

I wish I could have gone to one of his lectures. I would love to learn from the man, to be able to learn about the history and language of Anglo-Saxon England.

>>51068402
Just don't tell him about that, you faggot.

>>51068500
Dude was a good writer, a masterful world builder, and had a damn fine knowledge of history and language.
But he was a fucking luddite.

>>51068402
>I think the Last Ringbearer is a masterpiece of literature!

>>51068523

Let's be honest: given that the industrial sprawl he hated is poisoning our atmosphere, melting the ice caps and giving us all manner of cancers, he might have had a point.

>>51068523
So?
They have a point.

>>51057955
eagles are maiar, they're fine

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>>51067686
Is this the one?

>>51069092
fuck's sake

>>51069092
>fun

>>51068205
>Gondor
>In earlier times, it was called the South Kingdom, or Hyaralondie, Hyallondie and Turmen Hyallondiéva in Quenya, and Arthor na Challonnas in Sindarin from the Númenórean point of view: the elements londie and lonnas mean "harbour, landing".[21]
>The name Gondor was likely adopted from the lesser people's terminology[22] and translates from Sindarin as "Stone-land", from the words gond, "stone", and (n)dor, "land".[22] The (generally not used) Quenya form of the name was Ondonóre.[23] Gondor received its name because of the abundance of stone in the Ered Nimrais, and the usage of it in great stone cities, statues, and monuments, such as Minas Tirith and the Argonath.
>In Rohan, it was known as Stoningland (a modernization of Old English Stāning-(land)[24]),[11] and Ghân-buri-Ghân of the Drúedain also recognized their use of stone.[25]
>Gondolin
>Gondolind is perhaps a Mithrimin name[1] and means 'stone of music'. In proper Sindarin it was named Gonnólen which means "hidden rock". In Quenya it was named Ondolinde.
>In Eriol's Old English translations, Gondolin is referred as Stangaldor(burg) "stone-enchantment-(city)", Folgenburg "hidden city" Galdorfaesten "enchantment-fortress".[2]

So the "Gond-" is the same Elvish root, but the placenames aren't directly related.

>>51069092
Funny fact.
Many scenes from the Battle of Pelennor were re-shooted because the producers didn't want to offend the asian market. Same with the battle of Helm's Deep but concerning scottish and irish people. Hence the absence of the dunledins and other ethnicities in the movies.

>>51067883

They have no special name, they're just called "lass" or "girl" or "woman".

>>51069327
>offending scottish or irish people
is this even possible?

>>51069313
>is perhaps a Mithrimin name
>perhaps

So he wrote that shit and even he didn't know?

>>51069353

Yep. He liked to pretend he was merely translating these books, not creating them. He changed his mind about the etymologies of various words over the course of his writing.

>>51069353
That's not what it means. Tolkien didn't write things as if he were omniscient. Yes, he came up with all the history and mythology of Arda but wanted to preserve some things as mysteries, lost in time, as if he were someone accounting things and making sense of them, a historian.

>>51069366
I can't tell whether I'd love or hate this cunt irl.

>>51069382
>"I am in fact a Hobbit (in all but size). I like gardens, trees and unmechanized farmlands; I smoke a pipe, and like good plain food [...]; I like, and even dare to wear in these dull days, ornamental waistcoats. I am fond of mushrooms (out of a field); have a very simple sense of humour [...]; I go to bed late and get up late [...]. I do not travel much."
>― J.R.R. Tolkien

>>51069348
>woman
I doubt that.
They aren't female Men.

>>51068394
Grab a Ouija nigga. Damn it this is /tg/ you shouls know better. Or ask /x/

>>51069403
Great guy.
>>51069442
>Implying he'd want to speak with any of us

>>51069439

Yes they are, hobbits are a kind of man
>Hobbits were considered Men. Nearly all scholars agree that Men were closely related to Hobbits, far more closely than Men were to either Elves or Dwarves. It was thus commonly assumed that Hobbits were among the Younger Children of Ilúvatar and were the result of the same act of creation as Men. This would imply that Hobbits had the Gift of Men to pass entirely beyond Arda.

>>51069462
Yeah, but they weren't called Men.
Just because Dutchmen and Frenchmen are closely related, doesn't mean they'd call each other by the other's name.

>>51069475

Sure but female hobbits are just called "women" or, more often "girls" or "lasses".

>>51069462
Hobbits were and at the same time weren't Men.
There is a reason a Hobbit helping kill the Witch-King was significant. A Woman and a Non-Man Race both struck fatal blows

>>51069092
I don't give two shits about changing character's races, the SJW's can go nuts. But where the fuck is Thorin's beard? I don't care what real life race Thorin is, but he's not a fucking elf, that's important to the story.

>>51068537
>2017
>Still believing in Chinese propaganda designed to weaken our economy

>>51069559

There's no canon position on whether female dwarfs have beards. Yes, there's that line in the movie, but Tolkien himself never said anything about it, beyond saying female dwarfs are rare and thus treasured by dwarfkind, and so never seen doing dangerous things like adventuring or fighting.

>>51069571
It's exaggerated, yes, but it's there.
Anyway, we all know it pollutes our air and water.

>>51069092
I like how he misses the point of those characters.

Boromir has to be the oldest son for his character to be complete. It's part of his character that he is the oldest (traditional) heir and feels the pressure from his family.

Also I always got a Nordic/Gaelic vibe from the Elves so being pale and fair skinned feels better.

Frodo and Legolas could easily be girls though. But then Sam needs to be a girl as well since bromance is part of their arc.

>>51069092
>Made all the beautiful and/or magical people dark skinned.
Subtle, this guy is not.

>>51063592
It must have been hard for Sam to climb up that tower with those huge brass balls.

>>51056068
>knockoff races like dwarves or ents go nowhere at all
Not true. The Silmarilion makes it clear that the Elves think that the Dwarves return to the stone after their death, but that the Dwarves themselves believe that they have their own hall in Mandos and that the first seven kings are continiously reborn among their people.

>>51056068
>Orcs possibly go to Valinor too
Considering that Orcs weren't Elves, no. Tolkien made it clear in later texts that they were likely forgeries made from beasts or stones that were given the appearance of life by having a piece of Morgoth within them.

>>51070540
>>51056068

Ents aren't knock-offs either, they were created with Eru's blessing so presumably have souls of some kind. They probably go to Valinor like the Elves. Only humans (and hobbits?) survive beyond the end of the world, tho, Elves are tied to creation and presumably so are the other races.

>>51070556

Not true, some orcs are the result of Melkor's tortures, other are derived from humans, still others are beasts. As a race, they have multiple origins.

>>51069092
The wizards:
While Gandalf and Saruman are both maia, these are assumed forms, so there is no real reason for them to be the same race. The nut brown honestly looks good on Gandalf, since he's the go-getter. Saruman as the 'ivory-tower-type' would look better paler for contrast.

The elves:
In addition to the already stated that Elves make more sense as Celtic due to their origins, there is a logical problem with Elrond and Arwen look pure african when they are half-breeds? The two shouldn't look pure anything.

Personal opinon, I think Galadriel's looks here are gag worthy. That combination of african skin tone, nordic hair colour and greek/roman features looks artificial as fuck. If you're going to make one of the world's greatest beauties black don't fucking half-ass it you fucking oreo. Arwen at least looks attractive, Galadriel looks like dog vomit.

The hobbits:
Pretty good. I'd have given them a bit more tan since hobbits are Tolkien's idealised rural outdorsy folk.

The human:
Female Boromir requires big changes to either his character arc, or to worldbuilding (making Gondor a matriarchy), so probably a bad idea.

Not depicted here but I'm actually kind of fond of native american Aragon from the Bakshi films.

Eowyn look basically canonical. Or is this supposed to be Maleowyn? (Trapowyn?) That again has problems with the story arc. She

The dwarf:
Why the fuck would you give a dwarf elf ears? Why the fuck would you have a beardless female dwarf? You could at least reference the idea by giving her a veil with beard pattern embroidery or something. Not even getting into the worldbuilding changes a female dwarf going on adventures would need...

>>51070573
>Why the fuck would you have a beardless female dwarf?

It's not clear whether Tolkien actually intended female dwarfs to have beards. In the appendix, it states that female dwarfs are so similar to male dwarfs that outsiders have trouble telling them apart, but does this mean they didn't have breasts, or simply that they were alike in being short and stocky? For that matter, it isn't clear if all MALE dwarfs had beards, certainly it seems to have been the norm for them, but again there's no definitive answer.

>>51070572
This is never stated anywhere by Tolkien. What we have are speculations on his part about the true origins of the race, the later of which make it clear that the forgery theory was the preferred one and many other texts concerning the origin of the Orcs being consistent with it.

One of the most compelling argument against the Orcs are Elves theory is the one that Tolkien brought up himself; Even if Melkor could turn Elves into Orcs through torture, that corruption could not possibly become hereditary without the doing of Eru.

>>51070628
The War of the Jewels, Part Two. The Later Quenta Silmarillion: Concerning the Dwarves (Chapter 13) states that dwarven females had beards.

>>51070668

There's no possibility that the Orcs were created from dirt, since only Eru can create life. The last thing Tolkien wrote on the topic suggests multiple origins for orcs:
>"Since Melkor could not 'create' an independent species, but had immense powers of corruption and distortion of those that came into his power, it is probable that these Orks had a mixed origin. Most of them plainly (and biologically) were corruptions of Elves (and probably later also of Men). But always among them (as special servants and spies of Melkor, and as leaders) there must have been numerous corrupted minor spirits who assumed similar bodily shapes. (These would exhibit terrifying and demonic characters.)

Note the "orK" spelling, dating this snippet to the end of Tolkien's life.

>>51070628
I know, but with how long the beard argument has been going on, answering it in the most boring possible way is disappointing as hell.

Female lotr dwarves is one of those questions that should either go unanswered, or should be answered in funny way.

Like, if you had the dwarf women be beardless, but like 9 ft tall, you'd probably get a giggle out of me. Giving every race human gender dimorphism is boring, and dwarves deserve better.


You certainly don't give them elf ears! I don't know what the fuck the artist was smoking and I don't want to know.

>>51070713
>only Eru can create life
Yes, which also doesn't go against the forgery theory as that doesn't claim the Orcs to be alive for real but forgeries made to appear alive. Unlike Aule, however, Melkor put part of his fea within them meaning that he did have to have his thoughts upon them for them to act.

This is consistent with both the statement that only Eru could make the corruption hereditary, that only Eru can create can create life, and that in the beginning the Orcs were strong and fell as demons (which makes sense as Melkor's fea would have to split up and divide amongst them as they multiplied, making them weaker).

>>51070823
Wait wait wait. Weren't dwarfs created by the smith god? And then when he was ordered to destroy them they cried and whined, so he decided that they maybe true live beings, and did not destroy them. Melkor was more powerful, so why shouldn't he be able to do the same

>>51070870
>And then when he was ordered to destroy them they cried and whined, so he decided that they maybe true live beings
No. They covered in fear because Eru accepted them as his own and gave them life. Aule was never ordered to smash them but said something along the lines of "If you will not have them I will destroy them."

Melkor also couldn't create life. It's a pretty big deal in the creation myth that he searches endlessly for the Secret Fire but can't find it.

>>51070573
>Bakshi
>anything good

>>51070909
I remember reading a manga where he breed elfs like crazy, and they were definitly getting pregers from him. So it looks like he can creat life.

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>>51064758
The important thing is that nice things happen. There are beautiful places in LotR right up to the edge of Mordor, and it's expected that the reader will love those places and feel sad that they're fading away. Recall that Sam - quite arguably more the PoV character than Frodo, Aragorn etc - is tempted by making a garden out of Gorgoroth, not by power or wealth.

So yeah, everyone who complains about LotR says "urgh but so many trees idgaf." Ignore them. It's important not to get TOO bogged down in description, but some throwaway details can potentially go a long way to making a world that players want to live in and protect. It's like, drawing every brick on the house is inadvisable, but adding just a little texture in the right places... But then, I don't know how to explain what those places would be.

>>51068303
This, except
>are you faggots really so fucking fragile you get triggered by art you don't like?
If so,
>>>/isis/

>>51071056
Are you really so fragile you get triggered by other people opinions?

>>51068096
Orcs aren't supposed to be that big. Saruman's Uruk-hai were notable for matching Men in size. The rest ranged from the size of Hobbits to a head shorter than Men.

>>51071092
A thread linked me to this recently:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdXQJS3Yv0Y

I kinda laughed at those shitty orcs but it blew my mind when I realised they were closer to what Tolkien described than the Peter Jackson movies.

>>51071108
Peter Jackson's movies were shitty in general. The Fellowship was okay, but the other movies swan dived into terribleness.

>>51071151
>fellowship
>sans bombadil
Nah.

>>51071160
I did not expect Bombadill to show up, and I fully believe that he would not be needed to be included in a faithful, and good, adaptation of the books. My main gripes with the the following two movies was the over reliance on shitty special effects and boring action scenes. The Hobbit movies I have avoided like the plague and what little glimpses I have caught of them have only made me more adamant to keep doing so.

>>51071151
Shut up Christopher.

>>51071227
no u

>>51070573
>Or is this supposed to be Maleowyn? (Trapowyn?) That again has problems with the story arc.
Could a trap kill the witch-king? Magical prophecies *probably* care more about social role and perception than about genetics. Unless it's the kind of prophecy which doesn't actually provide any protection, merely tell you what will eventually happen regardless, in which case maybe only outward appearance matters, and then only so far as scrying reveals it.

>>51070969
>reading manga
>reading fan fiction
>reading fan fiction manga

>>51070969
wat. Lotr Doujinshi is a thing in Japan?

>>51062539
>Darth Jarjar

Star Wars is retarded

>>51071151
>swan dived into terribleness.
Not until The Hobbit.
Two Towers and Return are perfectly fine. LoTR is a horrible source material to work with when considering how the hell you could adapt this all.
He made it work in cinema form and that in itself is already very commendable.

>>51062539
>Its sad we don't have any comics for example
No, it's not. It will be a travesty the day that Christopher die and these things actually happen. Fuck fans. Fuck them all right up their fat hairy little assholes, they ruin everything.

>>51071298
That's just about the half joke/half serious fan theory because The Phantom Menace was so terrible and people tried to find something to laugh about it or make sense of it.

>>51070969
...sauce?

>>51071317
>Two Towers and Return are perfectly fine
Ahahahhahahahahaha!

No.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXAvF9p8nmM reminder

>>51071259
>>51071192
How do you even manage to live when you hate things so much?

>>51062539
Fuck you and your comics

>>51071423
Oh yeah, I guess I would be much happier if I just turned off my brain and stopped thinking rationally and critically about things.

>>51062909
Extended universes should be illegal even for Star Wars.

>Numenorians gets uppity
>Valar annihilate their homeland
>Sauron is manifestly taking over middle earth
>Valar herp derp do nothing

Perfidious Valinor

>>51069351

It is the easiest to offend people that pretend t be not offended.

>>51071541
If you want a problem solves ask a Human.
If you want a new problem ask a Noldor.
If you want your problem to get worse, ask a Dwarf.
If you want your problem and a continent gone, ask a Vala.

>>51068402
There's literally nothing wrong with Tolkien's vision of technology. He wasn't entirely against all of it, the Shire which is basically his non-erotic Magical Realm is significantly more advanced than any other nation in LotR except Isengard and Mordor (and only in some regards).

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>>51063685
I live in the South of England, somewhere fairly rural which makes me think of the shire a lot. In the summer i'm always so excited to return to the cornfields and secret, country village lifestyle.

>>51071274
>The fight with the Witch-King devolves into the two of them bickering about whether or not Trapowyn is a man

>>51071731
As someone living in the middle of Buttfuck Cornwall, I've probably seen the closest things to hobbits as Tolkein intended them.

In the modern world, they'd all become extremely lazy handymen that live for the weekends.

>>51069382
>>51069353
It's like the whole point of all the Tolkien universe, magic and fantasy are completely irrelevant compared to thsis. How can people still not know and act surprized? Is this the same people who only watched the movies and complain about the songs?

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>>51071801
You're probably right. I like in Berkshire and the, rural hobbitlike villages are becoming assimilated in to the urban quite frequently. The Fellowship always makes me so nostalgic for British summers though. There's nothing quite like a pint of cider on a warm, long summer evening.

>>51071855
The country might be beautiful but the people in it generally aren't. Enjoy having the illusion shattered whenever you talk to someone.

Post Gay Sauron pics

>>51070751
Not everything has to be lolsorandum fun, dude. Dwarves are already too fucked by the eternal curse of comic relief that they didn't have in LotR.

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>>51071907

>>51071274
>Magical prophecies *probably* care more about social role and perception than about genetics.

[Citation needed]

>>51070969
Sauce?

>>51071108
Jackson's orcs are already pretty much like that. They're a bit less cartoonish, but so is literally every character because, well, live action will always be less cartoonish than literal cartoons. This is compensated with a less animalistic face that allows them to show with human facial expression what can't be shown otherwise.

But in general all orcs except uruk hai were pretty much goofy goblins like those in the cartoon movie. The movies are far from perfect, but I like how they portrayed orcs (specially when compared to the Hobbit trilogy or the warcraft movie).

>>51071905

Country folk are far nicer and more decent than urban """people""".

>>51072027
It stands to reason, at least in the realm of Tolkein. Other settings have magic that more explicitly cares about reductionist-type stuff, but the power of Narya isn't "regenerates ATP" or "alters brain structure." It just gives people the power to resist despair and domination, no explanation provided. That's the kind of faerie-tale magic of middle-earth.

>>51068394
I wonder what he would say if we brought his soul back from the underworld and we showed him the impact of his work in today's world.

>>51069446
>implying he wouldn't
>implying you can't speak to the same powerful forces that he spoke to, for they are in your blood, your soul and in your spirit

Fun fact, about the same time that Tolkien was writing and drawing the first inklings of the Middle Earth, Carl Jung was drawing his own visions from his introspection and confrontation with the unconscious. Both of their drawn art shares the same themes, similar composition, similar thoughts went into them. Both of them were writing similar writings and experienced eerily similar thoughts. What Tolkien called a fae and gave to it many names as his muse that whispered him the stories of another realm, Jung called it the Anima and observed it do the very same.

The two men never met and had no idea of either one's existence. Those enchanted realms are not something that a man can own. Those tales of bravery, tales of grief and of perseverance through all are inherent in all men. It is in all of our blood. Why else would you be here, you bards and weavers of tales, all? Why else would you go and seek new stories to share, draw inspiration to recall new tales that had never happened and yet at the same time happened in their fullest sincerity, in their deepest gravity?

Who else drives you to wake up in the middle of the night, only to write down a dream that you could use for a great plot hook? It is the spirit of a man who was much like everyone else, liked simple things and had fun writing down stories. Tolkien was but one of many manifestations of this spirit.

>>51072252
It also puts a strong focus on morals and ethics and a hero outright lying and trying to cheat magic and prophecies is not likely to end up well.

>>51072298
>Jung
>>>/x/

>>51068394

I know that feel. On the other hand, if I had the opportunity, I would pester the poor old man mercilessly asking about obscure trivia in his worldbuilding that I'm not even entirely sure he gave thought to, such as what led to the double-etymology behind the Brandywine river.

Will there ever be movies made out of the Silmarillion?

>>51072326
I hope not, seeing how the hobbit ones went.

A TV series could work, specially if the budget for special effects is relatively low and the makers are forced to be creative.

>>51072310
Is this some ebin /lit/ meme? In the Current Year +2?

>>51072350 Akallabeth tv show?

>>51072353

Jung was a fraudster and a mystic, discussion of him belongs on /x/.

>>51072326
The Lord of the Rings has been whored out enough, especially after the Hobbit "movies". Still leaves a bad taste in my mouth every time I say "movies" for a single book.

Just leave Tolkien alone. Just like Herbert.

>>51072396

Michael Bay directs the War of Wrath

>>51072326

No, because Hollywood Jewed the Tolkien estate out of their money from the LotR movies. Despite making well over $3 billion globally, apparently they've "yet to turn a profit", so the Estate got exactly $0 out of them.

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>>51072419

>>51072419
pls don't

>>51072304
It's not lying, necessarily. I agree that magic that uses self-identification as the only factor to judge by would be strange, and would be vulnerable to cheesy exploits that don't fit the setting. But if I'd meant self-identification, I'd have written so. If in the SJ-AU the Rohirrim have a tradition of accepting some degree of weird other genders, like the Berdache or Kathoey IRL, then it doesn't seem obvious to me that such a person would be unable to fulfill the prophecy - whose only requirement is "not a man."

>>51072464
>>51072498
The Rock and Armaggedon are great, you low test fags.

>>51072424

Why hasn't Chris sued

>>51072547

On what basis? This is standard Hollywood tactics, the Forrest Gump author never saw a penny from that movie either, which is why we never saw a sequel despite how amazingly successful that movie was.

>>51072547
He made the classical blunder of asking for a % of profit, not from income.

>>51072596
>asking

Not quite, he was presented by a contract written up by the studio that was designed to cheat him of any money, and he was naive enough to not realize he was being robbed.

>>51072371
What I had in mind was more related with the divinities fuckery and Melkor doing Melkor things and geting rekt by several heros, but sure an Akaballeth tv show would also work well if a good director is in charge.

Does anyone know the manga this guy >>51070969 is talking about?

>>51072522
>If in the SJ-AU the Rohirrim have a tradition of accepting some degree of weird other genders, like the Berdache or Kathoey IRL

Good thing they fucking don't and this is never implied or sugested, and in fact the contrary is to be expected from a people so heavily inspired by anglo-saxons.

>>51073199
What part of "AU" are you too dense to understand, anon?

>>51051483
>He actually was practically prince of the halflings
what was he then, king of the manlets?

>>51068205
The only thing still above the waves in beleriand is a tiny island with Hurin's grave on it

>>51073562

I'm pretty sure the area that Beren and Luthien "retired" to after his death and resurrection stayed above the waves as well.

>>51071347
At least it was not as bad as TFA.

>>51073819
The Phantom Menace was waaaaaay worse than TFA. The fact that TFA was a bad movie does not mean you have to pretend to like TPM to compensate.

>>51074095
There are redeemable parts to TPM. Hell, even to just cut everything but the fight scene with Maul and that would be better than 1 and 2.

There is no part of TFA worth watching a second time.

>>51074165
>even to just cut everything but the fight scene with Maul
The fight scene with Maul was stupid as hell.

>>51068254
Minas Morgul (Tower of Sorcery) was once Minas Ithil (Tower of the Moon) and a part of Gondor, so it's a bit confusing.

>>51071731
That just looks insanely comfy.

I practically live in the real life equivalent of Forodwaith now. It's cold and dark.

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>as he committed more and more evil deeds the iron horns that erupted from his head grew taller and taller until they formed a full crown

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>>51075714
>as he committed more and more evil deeds the iron horns that erupted from his head grew taller and taller until they formed a full crown

>>51075786

Makes me wonder how Sauron would have better used resources in Mordor if he was coming from the Kojima school of fantasy realism instead of JRR's historical fantasy.

Sauron's biggest obstacle was that most of his power/life force was locked in that damn Ring Of Power. So he had to coordinate the entire war through his proxies all the way down.

Could Sauron even generate loyalty outside of fear like Solid Snake? He was so diminished that he was a shade of a spirit yet he still almost brought man to ruin. The tenacity's there but Sauron doesn't have the experiences of comradery with fellow soldiers to forge that common ground.

>>51071905
According to who? They're nicer than city people.

>>51073495
He was Thainheir.

>>51075714
>that time a magical dog almost killed him

>>51076358

By the end the 1st Age Morgoth had become weaker than Sauron would become in the 2nd Age

>>51076197
>Could Sauron even generate loyalty outside of fear
Back when he wasn't the Dark Lord he probably turned people to Melkor's service and led them without coercion or fear, but that would have just been manipulation from him, not true leadership.
And when he was pure he was an autist immersed in crafting and order, not in leading armies.
For what we know of Sauron he always was a skilled leader, but not a 'good' one.

>>51076197
>So he had to coordinate the entire war through his proxies all the way down.


Not at all. He would take to the field in the second age, and he is quite capable of moving around in the Third, he's got a body and shit.

He just doesn't show himself because at the core, he's a coward, and would rather throw his disposable minions at problems. It's not like he's worried about running out of orcs.

>Could Sauron even generate loyalty outside of fear like Solid Snake?

Probably. Consider the Easterlings and Southrons that kept fighting at the Black Gate even after he was 'killed'.

>>51076527
That was just them scared of losing and being killed.

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Hopefully this doesn't shit up the thread but really what are the issues with the movies (not Hobbit, that's obvious), besides no bombadil? I legitimately think they are the best movie to film adaptation ever created and personally my favorite series of movies.

I get that they couldn't go into the insane amount of detail tolkein went in to but they at least tried, I mean damn the movies are already like 13 hours long altogether (extended edition, the only way to watch them) they couldn't realistically make them longer. I just don't get the hate.

>>51077169
The scouring is gone, and based Bombadil.
Bill is gone.
Honestly, I stopped watching two hours into the first one.

>>51064668
It's good. Not for casuals though. Has too much magic to allow into player's hands. Up to a good GM to rein stupid player shit in, but that is most decent systems that have enough rules to cover things. Rolemaster is overall the upgrade system wise. I would suggest getting the MERP stuff for the lore and fluff, it is VERY well researched for it's time. Then if you have spare time to find it online or spare coin to buy it, get the Rolemaster books for more expansive rules.

Oh and again, not for casuals or the tards of this board. Get a real group of actual LotR enthusiasts and you will have a wonderful time. Just make sure they understand the game plan for the game, so that they can play along.

>>51077169
It's the really hardcore fans who complain, because they don't understand that literature and film are two completely different forms of art and have different conventions to them and certain incompatibilities together.

>>51077222
I'd hate to live with autism.

>>51077222
Here we have the essence of the people who hate Jackson's trilogy

>>51077001


That's not really supported by the text.

>But the men of Rhun and of Harad, Easterling and Southron, saw the ruin of their war and the great majesty and glory of the Captains of the West. And those that were deepest and longest in evil servitude, hating the West, and yet were men proud and bold, in their turn now gathered themselves for a last stand of desperate battle. But the most part fled eastward as they could; and some cast their weapons down and sued for mercy.

Clearly, some of them had loyalty to Sauron, or at least enough to his cause of beating up Gondor.

>>51077169

The single biggest issue, for me, is that Jackson reduces everything to THE WAR OF THE RING: GOOD GUYS VS SAURON!. His movies have one plot, and everything has to be squeezed into it, somehow. That's why you have things like elves at the Hornburg, that's why you have pretty much everything after the ring's destruction removed, and that's why you have character assassination of everyone who isn't Goody Mc Goodness: Denethor in the books was proud, and didn't want to play second fiddle to anyone, but he did honestly oppose Sauron, and wasn't the malingering incompetent Jackson portrays him as.

The books are a constellation of minor plots that only loosely travel together, and Jackson missed the single most important one, namely the growth and development of the Hobbits, the War of the Ring takes backseat to that. Gone are all the details that make a world, they're not needed for the monoplot. Gone are all the conflicts, both legitimate and imagined, between the "good guys", we can't have that. Gone is everything that makes Tolkien better than your pulp author of choice.

>>51077382
>>51077169

Detail wise, I think the elves at Helms deep is the worst part. For starters, they don't actually add all that much "Tactically". They go off and die pretty early in the battle; and play up the Rohirrim weakness in a way that isn't in the books (Legolas says there are about 300 Rohirrim defending the burg, in the books there were a bit over 2,000), and one that could easily have been written around by simply working from the source material: There are more men defending the fortress.


But it seems done primarily to promote a message about how "All the free peoples of the west are banding to gather to defeat Sauron, for Sauron is Evil with a capital E" And that's wrong. Stuff edited out to save on time, sure. Deleting Tom's weirdness, I can get. Putting visual elements in some of the subtler psychological interplays of the book (Think of when Boromir picks up the ring after Frodo drops it on Caradhras, something that would almost certainly have had much greater fallout in the books), sure, it's a different medium. But actively inserting a message that runs counter to the tone of the books, that the Elves had had their day in the sun and are a failing, fading people, which is why it's now up to Men to hold back the shadow, is just offensive and dumb.

>>51077222
Oh come on, it's not fair to judge a movie a quarter of the way through.

>>51072628
Good. Chris Tolkein is a pigfucker who fucks pigs.

>>51077382
Lord of the Rings is an absolute pain of a source material to work with, which is why the attempts before Jackson didn't work.

Jackson reduced it into something that could work as a film and obviously it will omit things. A book can never fully be transferred.

While all you said is true, what Jackson managed was creating something that brought Middle Earth to life and made it feel and look really good. Something that was long thought to be impossible. The films are visually captivating no matter what shortcomings they may have on how they decided to include narrative.

>>51077169
It is an incredible adaptation for sure, but that quality makes the weird decisions like making Gimli just comic relief stand out even more.

>>51077628

>Jackson reduced it into something that could work as a film and obviously it will omit things. A book can never fully be transferred.

But he did more than just "omit things". He added in an enormous quantity of stuff, and a lot of it sticks out like a sore thumb. How long was that scene of the wolves attacking the Rohirrim on their way to Helm's Deep, Aragorn falling off the cliff, and making his bloody, battered way back home again? What the fuck did it add?

Why does every act of heroics have to be done with either a Fellowship member at hand, or directly involved? Pippin sneaking in to light the signal fires becuase lord knows we can't have a competent, proud, 3 dimensional figure in Denethor. Merry tricking Treebeard into seeing the devastation after the entmoot decided not to attack Isengard (and, by the way, making a mockery of the previously established characterization, both in film and in book, that they were a deliberate, slow-thinking, and somewhat democratic group of tree-people). Why was this done?

The added sequence of reforging Anduril in the third movie, and having Elrond ride hell-bent for leather to present it to Aragorn before he takes the Paths of the Dead, why couldn't this have been tucked into the Rivendell sequence?


>While all you said is true, what Jackson managed was creating something that brought Middle Earth to life and made it feel and look really good.

And a movie needs a hell of a lot more than that to be good. Cameron's Avatar was a beautiful visual experience, but ultimately, it's just Pocahantas in space, and is just as dumb.

>The films are visually captivating no matter what shortcomings they may have on how they decided to include narrative.

Some of us like to have films with decent narrative choices. Hell, they don't even need to wow us with the visuals. Ever watch the Godfather?

How is The One Ring RPG?

Any recommended supplements?

>>51077169
The latter two get bogged down by shitty special effects and pointless action scenes intended to appeal to teenagers and infantile adults.

>>51063685
Just move to a small rural english village you'll get pretty much the same atmosphere with only slightly more drug abuse.

>>51077745
I hear you, to me the books and movies have just always been different things I've enjoyed sort of separately, I guess. The existence of the latter does not take anything away from me.
I still love the books and I still find commendable and enjoyable things about the films.
Fuck the Hobbit ones though.

Never saw the Hobbit ones, what was so bad about them?

>>51078091
A bunch of pointless and terrible additions that only exsisted to extend 2 movie's worth of Material into 3.

>>51078091
That they made THREE LONG ASS MOVIES
Also absolute bottom-of-the-barrel tier fanfiction injected to them and stupid ass action scenes and boring ass war scenes of which neither were needed or wanted.
I'd almost recommend you to watch them just to see how much of a trainwreck it turned out to, but I also don't want you to suffer through all that.

>>51078091

Remember how I was complaining that Jackson fundamentally misunderstands what LoTR is and tries to make it about "All us Good Guys vs Sauron"?

He does it again, in a work that supports it even less.

The Hobbit, the book, is a story about how a bunch of old accountants get in over their heads to try to get their treasure back from a dragon, using a non-sensical plan that works due to dumb luck and fate. As they travel, they learn the worth of what is essentially a Victorian Englishman transplanted into a fictional world modeled after 8th century northern Europe or so; it pits his modern notions of courage as making the right decision in a tight spot as opposed to archaic notions of courage, of valor in battle when all the world is watching.


The Hobbit, the movie, is about how blandface mcboring hobbit is sitting around when one day his hole gets crashed by 13 super-soldiers, (who also double as slapstick comics in their fighting style) on their way to beat up a dragon. As they journey, he learns to be cool and badass like they are. Then, because it can't be a PJ middle-earth movie without the war of the ring, you get to see a ridiculous attack on Dol Guldur.

>>51078091
>what was so bad about them?

They are genuinely fucking terrible movies. Dragging a short children's story into three massive features was a bad move, collossal tonal shifts because of development hell and executive meddling was a bad move, SW prequel levels of CGI and headache inducing proprietry formats was a bad move, but, even if none of that had happened, they'd be genuinely fucking terrible movies.

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>>51078091

>>51078355
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBsQQAnPwnc

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQkygZdZ_Vk

>>51078437
I wonder if Guillermo del Toro's version would have been better. If not as an adaptation, then perhaps as just a film.

>>51078355
>the_battle_of_the_five_polygons.webm

>>51078273
>you get to see a ridiculous attack on Dol Guldur.
Point of order: that happened. Galadriel canonically wrecked the place.

>>51079647
Of course it happened. But it's not part of the plot of The Hobbit. It's something unconnected that gandalf and some other people were up to at around the same time. We didn't see the skirmishing in Osgiliath that Ecthelion was up to either, even though that happened.

Including it in the hobbit shows you want to make another War of the Ring movie, when that's not what The Hobbit is about.

>>51076401
He's Talking about Sauron.

>>51076358
Huin was damn strong tho.

>>51056068

Dwarves get their own halls in Mandos (like Elves). But whereas Elves are usually reincarnated and then can live normally in Valinor, Dwarves have to wait in Mandos as disembodied spirits. A few, Dwarves say, are reincarnated but without their memories and are born into middle earth (the original dwarf kings). Ents and others die this way, too.

Hobbits are a breed of Men, and it's alleged that their spirits on go briefly to Mandos before departing Middle Earth through the doors of night.

All these rules have exceptions.

>>51057770

Tolkien went back and forth on the subject so much that there simply is no definitive canon. Most of what I'm reading in this thread is fan fic with a slight shred of canonicity.

>>51057800

I hope not.

>>51070573

You're way overanalyzing this. The whole point of Bowlderizing something is that your present day moral crusade / political agenda is more important than preserving a classic work of art.

If that shitty "monkey Jesus" art restoration project had looked like a more convincing monkey, would it have been right?

>>51081416
Art can't be right or wrong, retard.

>>51072573

In any other industry this use of shell companies is blatantly illegal. Hollywood only gets away with it thanks to political protection.

I'd love to see someone like an AG Sessions start going through the books of the major studios. They hate his guts anyway.

>>51073714

No, it's Tol Morwen, named for Hurin's wife. Nobody knows where Hurin died, or indeed what happened to him after he buried Morwen.

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>>51077169
Your pic is one. They handled Denethor poorly. Gimli was unfortunately turned into comic relief. Army of the dead was stupid.

>>51081622
I work in the industry and that would be spectacular.

>>51082273

They had to, or at least they felt they had to. Modenrn audiences aren't' going to support Aragorn claiming the throne just because he's the rightful king. The zeitgeist of the age is too democratic for that.

So, to end up with Aragorn on the throne and the audience supporting him, we have to make the authority he's replacing, Denethor, seem like a schmuck. Ergo, Denethor becomes incompetent and borderline treasonous.

IMO, the LoTR films can be best summed up as a flawed adaptation, but the best possible we could have gotten out of a big-budget movie.

I mean, fucking hell man, Jackson may have reinterpreted a lot of things, but the most impactful moments, those of heroism, of sacrifice, of comraderie, are all there, and they work.

Boromir's death never fails to get a single tear out of me to this day.

>>51071441
>thinking rationally and critically
just having opinions does not qualify either of those things.

>>51068394
>One day we will all reunite and walk with Tolkin on rolling green hills in the clouds...

>>51083854
If only.

>>51077745
>>51077489
>>51077382


I realize this is a LoTR thread and it attracts such, but holy shit, the autism.

>>51064592
>The World is grey
>The Mountains cold
>The Forge's fire is ashen cold
>No Harp is rung
>No Hammer falls
>The Darkness dwells in Durin's Halls
>There lies a shadow on the tomb
>In Moria
>In Khazad Dum

Fucking chills, man.

>>51072419
Michael Bay would actually be a fantastic choice. Half a continent gets wrecked and what plot there is in the course of the actual war is a simple matter of an evil god getting his shit pushed in. Provided somebody competent at weaving a narrative was in charge of the earlier movies in the Silmarillion series, this could really work.

>>51082985
I'd say the scenes at Mordor were made a disservice by making them more dramatic with the lava, Sauron having a LITERAL giant eye, etc.

A lot of the appeal of the very end of the book, at least to me, is that the tone shifts to be very solemn. They no longer have or need their elven swords, the mithril coat their Lembas, their cloaks and all the other magical artifacts they'd stockpiled during their adventure. They are victorious because they endured their trials with virtue and made it to Mt Doom at all.

My biggest complaint is that the ending is so happy, which is very jarring compared to the themes that had been on the works since the very beginning. You can only see coherence if you zoom out and point to the Silmarillion, which is honestly not very enjoyable to read unless you're explicitly trying to learn more about Middle-Earth as a setting. That is often at odds with enjoying it (and most other "settings" from books people obsess over) as literature. Saruman's death and the Grey Havens (which on my opinion is another scene butchered by the movie adaptation by cutting Frodo's dialogue, besides recycling the "and he beheld white shores and beyond them a far green country under a swift sunrise" line as Gandalf talking about the afterlife, which removes all semblance of subtetly and the grace in delivery it had) were great, but everything else about the scouring of the shire and what followed could have been better. The only other thing I liked was that the book made a point out of mentioning that the Fellowship never met again on Middle-Earth.

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I fucking love this thread. Currently watching Fellowship Extended, and moving on to Two Towers next all the while drinking and painting some IG models. Then in the morning going for a trip into the San Juan Mountains.

>>51085223
It's a nice thread.
Do you think Hobbits invented watches?
I don't think we saw any, but maybe soon.
Watches, looms, printing presses, and other gearstuff seem like exactly the kinds of things Hobbits would invent.
Do they have indoor plumbing?

>>51086328
Hard to say. Look at the inside of Bag End. It has very advanced wood working, but they still print everything by handwriting it all. Either way, the whimsical nature of middle earth is unmatched and anything is possible.

>>51086328
From my experience with bumbling English countryfolk, they likely haven't invented anything and will never invent anything. They're more likely to take anything invented by a human or dwarf and use that to make as comfy a lifestyle as possible for themselves though.

>>51086686
Well, after the Scouring, I assume they increased their government, a bit, maybe started funding the more inventive Hobbits. Or, I can dream so.
>>51086761
That's a bit mean. Anyway, they have a few bigger towns.

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>>51085223

Thank you for posting that picture. I feel unbelievably happy now.

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Is this an accurate map?

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>>51086826
This?
What's the most accurate Shire map?

>>51069613
Pollution has absolutely fucking nothing to do with the lie of anthropogenic global warming.
>>51068303
>lol you should not fight back against the genocide of your people and your ideologies because I say so lol I don't have an argument
How about you eat some shit?

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>>51086822
Now imagine living by it.
Same with this.

>>51084892
But anon, how will he squeeze in his fetish for the American Military?

>>51084269
>you are autistic for wanting a director to not rewrite a film for literally no fucking reason whatsoever and to the detriment of the story
Get the fuck out, troll.

>>51086826
>300 miles to the gap of Rohan
>at that scale
Not even close.

>>51053591
Just don't mispell it!

>>51086952

A squad of marines gets sucked into a portal

Looking back, I think what annoys me the mostabout the movies are how unsubtle and overly literal they are when it comes to picturing magic.

From Fellowship alone, you have:
>Sauron smashing the soldiers
>Sauron exploding
>Gandalf's "conjurer of cheap tricks" line
>Gandalf touching the Ring
>the stupid-looking fight between Gandalf and Saruman
>the "Baggins" whispers in Bree
>Arwen's invocation
>again with the whispers at the council
>the vision of the Scourging of the Shire
>Galadriel sperging out

I'm probably forgetting some. The Army of the Dead scene in RotK is really only the culmination of these schlocky attempts at translating the narration of the book.

I still love the movies, but they feel pretty silly at time.

>>51069092
Keeping Boromir white because he's seen as a baddie by causals

>>51087528
>ywn be sucked into Middle-Earth with your bros

>>51087847
More like sucked in Middle-Earth by your bros, because well, Marines.

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>>51068411
>tfw you're being taught right now by one of his students

Feels good man.

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>>51087692

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>>51087692
>>51088446

>>51077766
The One Ring rpg is just fine, the rules really make sense for playing in a tolkienesque style.

It is nothing like d&d or any other rpg with detailed crunch for most actions, it's a very abstract system. The publisher cubicle7 has announced a full fledged d20 or 5e conversion or something like that however, so if you prefer a more "gritty" style, this might be worth looking into.

why did Jackson want Faramir to bring the hobbits to Osgiliath

>>51088530
Faramir was not established as a relevant character by then. In fact the movies never make a good job at making him feel relevant, although it gets better. So Jackson probably felt like he needed to either scrap the scene or bring someone more relevant (Frodo) to show us the action. He decided the second thing since Osgiliath fall is shown later and he wanted the watcher to be already familiar with the scenario.

Or that's what I can deduce because otherwise there's no real reason.

>>51088530
>>51088565
I had wagered because it was the closest friendly held territory around, having recently been won back from Mordor forces.

I just want a Turin Turambar movie that's just as dark as the books, just to see the reactions of everybody to the ending.
>>51087898
For real?

>>51088530

Because like most Hollywood movies, this one wasn't so much written as it was storyboarded. Why have boring dialog and dramatic tension from acting and writing when you can have a pointless and illogical battle scene? So Jackson's storyboard shows Frodo offering the Ring to a hovering Nazgul in a ruined city, and so the writers have to find a way to connect that scene to what happens before and after, however awkwardly.

A lot of what passes for "reimagining the story to a new medium" was really Peter Jackson just rewriting the story for the hell of it, so it would be HIS story. Actually not to different from the central motivation of Sauron and Saruman: childish self-inflation.

Helm's Deep, for example, probably worked better as written in the book, even for the movie format. Jackson just did it for the hell of it; he "fixed" it by making it all about HIM. Ditto for Aragorn's warg death and rebirth scene, also pointless and illogical both as story points and for film making.

A secondary issue is that the movie makes a lot of its money internationally. Not all themes translate, not all are socially or legally approved. At its core, LotR has a very conservative, Christian message. So better to strip all that out in favor of more action, and themes from safer movies that made it passed the censors in China and India and etc.

>>51077169
Hackson is an effects nerd who doesn't understand how to portray characters or add any form of depth to his stories. You may notice that in every interview he's ever made he never things like why he decided that a particular character should be portrayed a certain way or how he decided to do X to help convey a specific emotion to the viewer. The only thing he ever talks about is the technology and how difficult it was to make the CGI look good.

For example, in the LotR his idea of conveying the lure of the Ring is to shoot close ups of it and add creepy sound effects to it, which, yeah, does let the viewer know that the Ring is evil but it doesn't tell us anything about what Frodo is going through.

>>51088744
Exactly how are you supposed to portray mental anguish and suffering in a acting medium, anon?
Dreamcatcher had the exact same problem where 80% of what actually happened in the story was entirely in the heads of the main characters or spoken telepathically.
Such things work in a book, due to the author being able to speak directly to the reader in an omniscient fashion, but not at all in a movie.

>>51088723
This is one of the most pointlessly negative things I've read here all week.
Your entire post hinges on the assumption of the absolute worst at literally every step, and assumes Tolkien's writing is above reproach when it CLEARLY ISN'T.

>>51088782
>Exactly how are you supposed to portray mental anguish and suffering in a acting medium, anon?

Not that anon, but I'm pretty sure the answer is, "via acting".

>>51070333
It he took the brass balls off, would he fall?

>>51088816
That is neither hammy, nor overdone?
Frodo was under constant mental assault by the ring the entire time he carried it. How would he act out ceaseless, exhaustive mental battles for the audience while still providing the full spectrum of emotion expected?
You can't, and you don't know this because you are neither an actor, thespian, or director of them. The assumption that you could simply represent something that is supposed to be omnipresent by "acting" and still have a full range demanded by a movie is laughable, and only serves to reveal how ignorant you are of actual acting.
Jackson made a choice based on real world issues that you don't need to be concerned with in a book, including how to show something visually innocuous as being sinister and malevolent with a will of it's own.
I feel bad I had to type this out, because you book faggots shit on a medium out of abysmal ignorance.

>>51088894
>Jackson made a choice
to add more needless CGI.

>because you book faggots shit on a medium out of abysmal ignorance
No, I love movies. In fact, I'd say that I love movies far more than books. I just don't like Jackson's movies.

>>51088807

OK, then YOU explain how the story is improved by adding the warg attack and Aragorn's death and rebirth. Or Frodo being dragged to Osgiliath and offering the Ring to a Nazgul. Why rewrite Denethor as ineffectual (a theme already explored with Theorem anyway), Faramir as a Boromir retread, or Gimli as comic relief?

Some things are cut for time, but why add brand new stuff, even new themes and messages? Much of the revised plot had holes that left viewers scratching their heads.

Jackson did a great technical job with the movies, but the production values stopped short of the writers' room. Some reasons are more understandable than others, but the biggest was ego.

Ironically, I think Jackson's chops as a storyteller and artist would have been better served if he hadn't been so eager to carve his name into Middle Earth with such jarring, ham-handed revisions.

>>51088894

OK, do it again, but this time faster and more intense. We'll fix it in CGI. It's like pottery!

You're making it sound like Elijah Wood is a community theater drone and that every acting challenge is something that can only be solved by Peter Jackson The Great and his bagful of battle scenes and CGI tricks.

Like I said, isn't this Melkor's fault, too? Eru Illuvatar creates this beautiful world of gentleness and compassion, and Melkor sees it and is like, "yeah that's really pretty dad, but what we really need is a superhero story starring ME and with my name written in fiery million mile high letters for everyone to see, and engraved and trademarked on every atom."

Sauron just wanted to rule the people as a dictator. Morgoth wanted to"fix" the world by making everything all about him. No problem solved by anybody but him, nothing that isn't touched by him, nothing that doesn't show off how powerful and great he is.

Tolkien wrote this not just to create a stand-in for The Devil, but also to critique an impulse that's in us all. And, like the Ring, the temptation to fuck things up by putting ourselves in charge comes up with all kinds of rationalizations. I'm sure Jackson thought he was fixing LotR's problems, too.

>>51088894

You know, this raises a good issue. How often do you see real actual ACTING in the movies? It's there, there are some great moments, but nearly as many as you'd expect. Instead, you get a lot of zoomy close-ups. Not so many significant looks, but lots of significant camera angles.

Now I'm thinking that Peter Jackson might have been thinking like you. That the actors were nincompoops and he had to carry the whole thing via DIRECTING.

It's a more charitable view, I guess. That it's motivated by anxiety that nobody can perform as well as he can, rather than just a pure ego wank.

>>51089090

Phoneposter detected

>>51089236

OK yeah but how did you know?

"Pottery" is a reference to George Lucas.

>>51089258

OK, on reflection, even an oblique reference to Lucas was uncalled for. I apologize.

>>51088530

Because PJ doesn't get that you have parallel plot and tone lines independent of the War of the Ring.

Faramir's encounter with Frodo is supposed to be a parallel of Eomer's encounter with Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli; each of a person trying to sort out the demands between duty on one hand and what their own judgment on the other tells them is best, along with a chance to showcase the different cultures.

PJ doesn't go in for cultural distinctions, and probably didn't get the significance of the parallel. It's all about the War of the Ring baby. So Faramir has to be seduced by the pull of the ring (because it's a mind control device that takes over everyone in its vicinity in a matter of hours) and there need to be lots and lots of orcses.

>>51071905
Heh yea those stupid provincial country bumpkins, right fellow redditor? They didn't even go to uni lmao!

>>51062598
More like numina or shinto spirits.