What level 20 commoner would be like?

I can really only imagine some sort of idiot savant in respect to some of the commoner class skills. Basically Simple Jack

File: The-Mutant_Epoch_RPG-McAusland-caste-farmer.jpg (227KB, 957x757px) Image search: [Google]

227KB, 957x757px

A ridiculously hardy frontier farmer.

>>51038781
The mayor.

So fucking common their speech is incomprehensible.

So common you can't even see them in a crowd.

So common that muck just falls off of him, even when he's just bathed.

>commoners
>levels
Move on to 5e already.

>>51038781
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/npcClasses/commoner.htm

>>51038900
I'm pretty sure the idea of commoner levels was considered stupid in its own time

File: Saito_Hiraga.jpg (54KB, 480x360px) Image search: [Google]

54KB, 480x360px

A harem Protagonist.
Only skills are mostly housework related.
Hardy against abuse.
Bland.

Commoner in Pic related.

Think anime. You're in a tavern and there's burly, rough guys making a big noise in the corner, annoying everyone. The attractive but otherwise unassuming barmaid comes to their table with the classic shut eyes and big smile asking them nicely to be quiet. Defying all logic the men submit immediately.

So think someone who does a normal, non specialized task but is highly regarded and respected by the entire town/city

>>51038959
He basically gained fighter levels and all relevant feats to a given weapon whenever he wielded it though

File: lucanor.jpg (227KB, 868x1111px) Image search: [Google]

227KB, 868x1111px

>>51038781
Best lvl20 commoner coming through

>>51038994
That was the Gandalfr enchantment on him. He even lost it for some time. I see it as a permanent buff spell.

>>51039007
That looks like aristocrat levels to me, assuming he isn't just some sort of wizman

>>51039007
Wouldn't he be an Aristocrat?

>>51039027
Class-wise this is still commoner.

>>51038781
A level 1 pc.

>>51039052
It's more like a level 10 PC with extra HP and no specialization

You go to Helga's bar. You order. You shut up. Make noise and Helga crush your face.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8a5jLedBak&t=1m0s

File: 1471557666310.png (392KB, 737x824px) Image search: [Google]

392KB, 737x824px

A dwarf worker that lived through the doom of his hold, dwarf fortress stile.

Luca from Berserk. She is the rock that lesser commoners cling to get them through the hell that is the world. She's a common prostitute who meets demons, spectres and tormented souls from the bowels of hell face to face and passes them by without really effecting them but without a scratch on her. She's so common that she doesn't accomplish anything greater than just being a good, kind and smart person in a world where those are extremely rare traits, but great things constantly happen around her. Basically, the most effective a powerless side character can be.

>>51038781
>>51039052
...I want to make a story about a legendary commoner warrior now

>>51039106
Humble origins isn't really a new concept

>>51039106
There is the Warrior class though.

File: 1319383339089.gif (8KB, 147x150px) Image search: [Google]

8KB, 147x150px

A hermit Troll, centuries old.

>>51039106
Not a warrior. Just a farmer and occasional odd job man.

>>51038781
Impossible. You can't gain enough XP for just farming and if he was actually facing danger on regular basis and had the grit to come out on top that would mean he switched to warrior or picked some kind of PC class. Even if it's just a fighter.

>>51039106
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=em8QtaDOZt0

>>51038781
A village elder. The matron/patron of his or her family, nearing the end of life and yet still full of vigor. Exceptionally wise, skilled in a number of crafts, and instantly commanding of respect from other common folk. May know some herbalism that borders on true magic. A person hardened and scared by a lifetime of toil who's come out of it with about as much worldliness as a single person can have.

>>51038781
I actually had one in my first campaign. The PCs were there for a tournament where the local king was going to find his bodyguard (the tournament winner), which was where they met him. Name was Johnny, just Johnny. He didn't actually expect to win against some of the big names there, literally the only reason he participate was to market his produce. Essentially, his sales pitch was that his produce would make you as fast and strong as he was.

People kinda laughed him off at first, he -was- basically just a very cheery farmer with a sickle. Then he won his first match against a halfling with two pet drakes, and suddenly his produce started selling pretty well.

So lets start with levels. Level 20 means they have been through some shit. They have seen and survived and bested far too many challenges that have felled lesser men. But they aren't like Malkazod the Lucifugal who has sealed the demon general Athraxas in a deep dark pit.

When it comes to skill, as a say a farmer, they make the best crops in the world. I'm going to use PF rules since I like them. We'll give him completely average stats, tens across the board with an 8 in say Dex, well fluff this as an injury in childhood which makes him a bit clumsy. He has profession farmer as his major skill, and has a base +23 in it. Let's say he was always a bit wiser than his other human friends, and thus has +1 wis mod from the +2 to any stat humans get this will only get bigger as he ages and levels. This gets him a total of +24 before any bonuses from masterwork equipment, minor magical trinkets, feats, and other things.

He earns plenty of money farming to sustain quite a lot of people. This equates to 12 gold per week, a huge pay for a simple farmer. He more than likely oversees the entire farmlands for whatever lord he resides under.

As commoners get 2+Int mod/level skill ranks, we'll give him Handle Animal as his other skill, at +23 he doesn't need to roll on pretty much any Handle Animal skill check except to "Push" an animal, Rear certain strong wild animals, teach the Entertain trick to an animal. Taking the feat Skill Focus (Handle Animal) will make it such that all animals obey him on any task.

He is capable of handling pretty much any animal and can make them do what he wants with a few words and stares.

He is basically the most respected farmer in the region he lives in, and everyone who has any need for advice on farming or animals comes to him.

File: Clipboard01.jpg (55KB, 1339x60px) Image search: [Google]

55KB, 1339x60px

>Climb
>Swim
>Jump

The lvl 20 commoner climbs mountains, swims lakes and jumps houses.

>>51041079
You just know all his skill points are spent on Profession (farmer) and Handle Animal though. He probably has 1 other skill (average human commoner has 3 skill points/level), so the average farmer can do one of those things. Of course, a commoner who doesn't require the Profession skill for some reason probably can do all of those things. I don't know what kind of commoner that is though.

>>51041192
He could be working as a tracker or wilderness guide or hunter for his village (with his one weapon prof being sling or something) or be a (long-distance) messenger.

He also doesn't have to be in fantasy europe. Maybe he's a dowser for water in arid regions and has to traverse a lot of terrain to go searching for spots, or similar stuff, or his community needs to rely on foraging in some fashion.

>>51041230
>>51041192
Actually come to think of it..... the lvl 20 commoner is a mangy seadog.

He's a highly proficient swimmer, and he can climb the rigging faster than anyone, plus he has a ton of nautical knowledge from Profession (Sailor). He's been on the seas for many years, running trade routes all over the world and weathering storms.

>>51039027
>>51039035
Mainly because there's no aristocrat class in anima or any that resembles it.

>>51041375
How can there be a class divide between commoner and nobleman if there are no classes :^)

>>51041341
So basically the Old man from "The Old Man and the Sea".

>>51041496
There can't, get ready Filthy Bourgeoisie, the waters of time bring about the waves of change, and you can either sink and drown, or swim and live.

>>51039136
That picture never fails to make me laugh.

>>51038781
Considering Einstein was level 5 at best, I don't know is it's something we can accurately imagine

>>51038781
A level 20 commoner would be a folk hero.

Fuckin Johnny Appleseed up in here.

File: the most interesting man in the world.png (366KB, 453x340px) Image search: [Google]

366KB, 453x340px

>>51038781

>>51039085
Top level.

>>51038781
Alright, let's take a look at the class first.
1d4 Hit Dice,
2+int modifier skill points per level.
1/2 Base Attack Bonus
All saves are poor saves.

Now, you get XP in the system based on encounters, but the DMG and practical experience state that you can have Non-Combat encounters, so let's not pretend it's impossible to level up as a commoner living a common lifestyle; every day is a table of mundane encounters, but most of them are negligible trials after having dealt with them over and over again so Commoners don't often gain very many levels. The ones that do will need to have spent their lives learning and trying new commoner things. Traveling around, meeting new people, trying tourist things, enjoying life, being heartbroken when that chance tryst ends up being nothing more when you'd built it up in your mind as something grand, etc. A Commoner does normal people things, but they do them with such variety and enthusiasm as to make it something unimaginably meaningful.

Let's not forget that there are plenty of feats one can take just by gaining HD. A level 20 commoner isn't terribly powerful by comparison of an adventurere with the same ECL, but they Are capable of a wide variety of things. Maybe they've become a worldly traveller and picked up feats that reflect survival, wisdom, and insights gained from all over the world; not a lot of them mind you, they were staying in the relatively safe touristy places and knew what danger looked like and how to avoid it by lvl 5. Maybe they've taken the Fae heritage feats, and while they're common in their nature they can none the less perform wonders that would make them either a pariah among their people or a local affinity and icon. Nevermind that Nymph's Kiss can give you +1 skill point per level.

Really, the best example that comes to mind off-hand is Twoflower of Diskworld.

>>51039035
There is actually an Aristocrat class in the SRD, and a better one in Dragonlance that gives semi-bardic inspiration effects without the spells.

>>51040633
If I remember the town generation rules in the 3.5 DMG it was entirely possible that there would be level 20 commoners if not more likely than most classes. I have no idea why anyone would ever actually use that shit though

>>51039099
Good call mate.

>>51040700
Another good example.

>>51044330
It cause exact opposite reaction from me - instant mood killer

>>51044867
Best example.

>>51046121
Cityscape probably changed all that. I've always wanted to run a Cityscape focussed campaign, but it never materalized. Also in-depth mapmaking tools for city-internal stuff are hard to find.

>>51044867
>Johnny Appleseed
That's a Rogue, you moron. And pretty low level one

>>51044867
>Folk hero
>Cider producer building a network of orchards full of apples useless for making anything else than cider
I'm not sure you understand how being folk hero works. But what to expect from American anyway, if this shit passes for "folk" and "hero"

>>51046245
Yeah, it's pretty easy to figure out.

Robin Hood's a folk hero. He was some sort of Ranger/Bard/Rogue situation.

>>51046245
Not really? American folk heroes have always been relatively simple people.

Johnny Appleseed was a kind, generous man who walked all across America. He always got along with animals, and even though people were always offering him a place to stay or a warm meal, he never wanted to bother them so thenonpy way to get him to stay for a while was with apple pie, his favorite and the one thing he could never turn down. A lot of his stories aren't meant to be totally literal though, his habit of planting apple trees and giving people apples was meant to be a show of generosity despite Johnny being essentially a wandering hobo. In some versions of his story I've heard though, the trees he planted and the apples he brought actually saved a town from starvation, which technically makes him a legitimate hero (albeit a very simple one).

Paul Bunyan was just a big lumberjack with a huge axe and a giant pet ox with blue skin. He's relatively simple too but still a folk hero, all he did was cut trees and be a generally friendly dude, the "hero" part comes from him being so damn good at his job.

Then there's John Henry, a black railroad worker. He had a hammer that was, in some versions, made from the chains he had on as a slave which he broke after he was set free. The only thing that made him particularly special was that he was really strong, and very good at his job. His folk hero status comes from the story of when some railroad tycoon was going to fire everyone because he had a steam-powered hammer that could do everyone's job in less time. John stood up for the workers though and made a bet that he could work faster than the steam-hammer though, which he won at the cost of his heart giving out. He beat the machine with his own two hands, and saved everybody's jobs in the process.

(1/2 cause I'm a long-winded faggot)

>>51046732
Again, all of these are really simple people. It's a nice hobo, a tall lumberjack, and a guy who hammers good. Sure, they're nowhere near the same "heroic" status as King Arthur or maybe even Robin Hood (since he has a lot of fantastical stories surrounding him), but they're still folk heroes. They were larger-than-life people who, despite being simple folk, either stood up for other, showed people how to be kind, or just were so damn good at their jobs they seemed inhuman. Just because what a character does is simple doesn't mean they don't count as a folk hero. Hell, Robin Hood isn't all that much ahead of any of them either, in his simplest stories he was just some no-name thief in the woods that was really good at archery and gave what he stole to the poor. You don't have to be a fighter to be a folk hero.

>>51038781
He's basically a ridiculously badass dude without any specific skills. He's not as good at using weapons as a fighter/barbarian/whatever and he certainly cannot cast spells and his skills would be technically low unless he got a high INT (in which case why is he a commoner and not an expert?) but he's nonetheless impossibly good at mundane tasks through sheer experience.

That said, he still has a serious edge against low-level adventurers by the sheer virtue of his attack bonus and HP, which outclass most low level adventurers and even weak CR monsters. Meaning he can probably murder a level 1 wizard with his rusty pitchfork like some edgy 2cool4u anime protagonist.

"Nothin' personnel!"

>>51046732
>>51046742
I think the guy you're responding to may have more been talking about the always latent connection between American folk heroes and capitalism present in practically all of them, whereas you're seeing a much more proletarian streak in ones like Robin Hood.

File: 119wjdw.jpg (41KB, 569x428px) Image search: [Google]

41KB, 569x428px

>>51038781
Like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U01xasUtlvw

>>51047020
Ah. Well, I'd still have to disagree honestly. Pretty much every American folk hero is a blue-collar working man, even if the historical figure they're based on wasn't. Paul Bunyon was just a lumberjack, and John Henry especially is a kind of slap-in-the-face against white collar business owners. After all, his story is about his boss being a cheapskate and trying to replace all his workers with a machine, until John Henry steps in and makes a bet to prove he could work better than any machine and save his peers' jobs. America tends to idolize the hard working members of society over the rich higher-ups, and you can definitely see that in a lot of our folk tales.

>>51047273
Idealizing the diligent worker is a capitalist view mate, it encourages the workforce to strive to be an ideal laborer for the people employing them. Even John Henry is about how to act within a capitalist system, only from the workers perspective.

Stuff like Robin Hood is about "sticking it to the man".

>>51038900
5e has both commoners and levels so I don't know what you're on about faggot. Oh wait you're trying to start edition wars between the two worst editions of D&D. Yeah naw piss off.

>>51039085
That reminded me of how legendary level miners in Dwarf Fortress are (used to be?) incredibly deadly with their pickaxes, often saving my fortresses from random attacks when my militia was still a bunch of bumbling idiots.

>>51047495
>Stuff like Robin Hood is about "sticking it to the man".

Robin Hood is literally the Man. He's a noble waging war against the monarchy because they expected him to pay taxes.

File: MikeRowe1[1].jpg (2MB, 2000x1333px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 2000x1333px

>>51038781

>>51047753
I thought it was because he got tricked into accidentally killing one of the King's deer, and would have been put to death by the unjust sheriff so that his lands and properties could be seized?

>>51038781
This is why the idea of levels is dumb

>>51048088
I honestly cannot think of a better individual that fits this role.

>>51046176
keep talking NOBLEMAN

>>51047676
Don't forget wood cutters.

My first real threat was a cyclops. I paused, readied my militia, split my firing squads, gave the order to get my defences up.
My wood cutter was furious that this beast decided to interrupt his work! He cleaved the thing's leg off, dropped the axe and punched it in the eye until it died.

He then returned to his job, cutting wood.

>>51046279

Robinhood was a ranger with MAYBE a level or two in rogue.

>>51038781
Non existant, most likely, i mean at level 20 you're getting tangled into really serious universe tangling shit, closest you'd get is a adventurer who retired to live off his accumulated wealth.

>>51038781
St Cuthbert

>>51038959
The only Harem Protagonists I could call "commoners" is Keitaro from Love Hina and Rito from To-Love-Ru cause anyone else I think of are mostly competent warriors like Ranma, become broken god-moders like Tenchi, or both like...well honestly literally anyone else.

>>51038781

Smite Varmint
Requirement: Commoner20, 10 ranks in any skill relating to farming.
Benefit: Once per day, for a number of rounds equal to your level divided by 4, you may add a bonus equal to your Commoner level to all attack and damage rolls. This ability may only be used on any creatures currently threatening (or occupying) squares that contain your crops, livestock, farming implements, or homestead. Additionally, during the period this ability is active, your attacks overcome all damage reduction and ignore all miss chances.

>>51047273
Original anon here, and I've got an announcement for you. You sir are a flaming homosexual. In short - a faggot.
Explain to us all how the fuck capitalistic entrepreneurs and their lackeys are in anyway folk heroes.

Here, short list of examples of folk heroes:
Robin Hood - attacking tax collectors for raking too much money from people and giving the money back
Juraj Janosik - attacking foreigners who took over the ancestoral lands and started raking high taxes, then giving the money back
Yue Fei - defending his homeland against invasion even if that meant leaving his mother, thus saving many
Spartacus - throwing away shackles of slavery and showing The Man his place

See some sort of pattern?
Meanwhile you are listing either people who:
- abused naive farmers to provide them with supply of raw goods
- workers toiling day and night
- workers being abused so hard they die, just because of stupid vager
Those figures can't even qualify for being called folk hero, you dumb fuck. Propaganda pieces - sure, great work of convincing the little men to stay low and work day and night for The Man. But that doesn't make them folk heroes.

Burgers are really amusing with their inability to grasp how "national mythology" works and their sad, pathetic attempts to create their own heroes, but not exactly grasping how this shit works. Cape shit is the best example of this.

>>51047753
Robin Hood, in the original version, was about opposing unjustify high taxes. Not taxes in general, not rebell against rich or the system, but the taxes being simply too fucking high.
He wasn't even a nobleman in that version, but it sounded better in ballads later on to make him a nobleman.

>>51047273
Oh, and let's not forget about the best part about John Henry "myth".
>It's ok to work blacks to death, that's a heroic thing to do
/pol/ would be proud

>>51048677

>America, the first nation to be formed around an ideology has different standards for their folk heroes than ethnostates suffering exploitation from foreign forces

Our culture is primarily a FRONTIER CULTURE, and most of our folk heroes come from the time when the yeoman farmer was a dying ideal in the face of the wealthy gentry.

In this context, Paul Bunyan, Davy Crockett, Jim Bowie, Daniel Boone, John Henry, John the Conqueror/Bre'er Rabbit, and Pecos Bill make a lot of sense.

>>51048733

The point was that the man voluntarily engaged in a contest against forces that threatened the value of men's labor. American Industrialization was seen as the death of an era in the country, and is arguably the turning point between the USA's pre-modern and modern history.

File: relax nigga.gif (997KB, 500x700px) Image search: [Google]

997KB, 500x700px

>>51048677
There's certainly no need for that kind of vitriol.

I'm not certain if I understand what a "folk hero" is, but if I'm not mistaken your own definition seems to be based on a specific ideology that must be espoused or represented by that folk hero, which seems suspect. Could you elaborate on what qualities define a folk hero, and why those qualities don't apply to American folk legends like the ones already listed?

I mean, if American folk legends are categorically incapable of fulfilling "folk hero" status, that would be surprising, wouldn't it? It would imply that there's something unique about American culture as compared to all others, which is a stance I find unlikely. It may be that your opinion is influenced by nationalist bias of some sort.

>>51046732
Not even him, but are you at least aware Johnny Appleseed was a scheme created by a guy making cider? He literally dressed up as a hillbilly, wandered around giving free saplings of apple trees and then returned after few years buying large supply of apples that were good only for brewing cider out of them.

So nice "heroes" Americans have.

>>51048915
I agree, it really is terrible. As a matter of fact, I've heard that some folk heros may have never existed at all!

In seriousness, I've heard myself that Paul Bunyan was invented as an advertising thing for a lumber company. On the other hand, I'm not certain that that invalidates his status as a "folk hero," or implies that America's other folk heroes are all equally artificial.

>>51048842
Yeah, that sense being "work hard and don't mind harship, because if you will work hard enough ,you back will give up and you will die in a heroic deed".
Which is supposedly the shit America was - at least ideologically - against. You know, exploitation of serfs. Only this time calling them "workers".

>>51048908
Folk hero is a guy sticking to The Man and/or standing on the side of the little men. In short - a person that does something both heroic and protective for the powerless masses. Not a propaganda piece that promotes this or that value for newcoming workers.

It's really that fucking simple.

Want a great example of what could qualify as folk hero? Seven samurai. Not magnificent seven, but seven samurai. You have guys that by law and custom are above the people for which they stand for. And yet they stand for the little men, rather than turning their backs.
It's completely lost in translation for western, because there is no class difference between the farmers and gunslingers.

>>51048945
Pretty much ALL American "folk heroes" are advertising stunts, which further undermines their status as folk hero. This shit just doesn't work this way.

make him the cosmic farmer.
One time, my entire party was composed of murderhoboes. Anticipating they'd start shit in the next village (and at the time I was too experienced to know that their consequences would fuck them up all the same) I put a LVL 20 farmer at the end of the village (they were level 3) and gave him a sickle +16. Eventually as they passed trough the village they fucked with the poor villager at the end of the village. He killed three out of four of them, and they shit themselves. It was funny as fuck at the time, and eventually he became the cosmic farmer. Now he has his little demiplane which is a farm in the middle of nothing, and sometimes when players travel the plains they pass trough it, and gods help them if they piss the simple farmer off.

if there ever comes a time when they all play good characters and the peasant deems them worthy though, he will give them the sickle.

>>51048842
It can be also read - without any mental exercises to boot - as a story of how good it is to give a nigger a hammer and then put him against machine, because it's still cheaper to use a nigger for that than construct an expensive contraption.
Also, remind us all - how does this make hims a folk hero? Did he secured anything for other workers? Did he achieved anything? Helped anyone?
In short, this is a nice play on luddite tendencies, explaining the little men how opposing machines is stupid and pointless, because you will die anyway, so better just accept it.

And it might shock you, but America is not the only frontier culture around. In fact, half of the world can get that claim. Including countries from Europe. Amazing, right?

>>51049015
>Folk hero is a guy sticking to The Man and/or standing on the side of the little men.

The Founding Fathers say hello.

America didn't need to make up random mythological Stick It To The Man characters, because it already had a great cast to mythologize and embellish into living legends. The founding story of America is itself a grand tale of rising up against oppression, fighting for freedom, and establishing one's right to self determination.

Sure, the real founding fathers may have been elites who never agreed on anything and the war may have cemented the rule of the upper class, but it makes one hell of a story. Far more concrete compared to fairy tales about an outlaw in the woods, too.

You're complaining that America didn't invent a story about Bob The Savior that meets your satisfaction, while completely ignoring the fact that America already had heroes they could turn into legends. So I'll see your Robin Hood, and raise you one George Washington (twelve stories tall, never lies, chops down cherry trees, 27 dicks, shoots lasers out of his eyes, etc).

>levels
just play GURPS senpai

>>51039106
That's what the "folk hero" background is for. You've saved your town and become a local legend before the game even begins.

>>51049015
>In short - a person that does something both heroic and protective for the powerless masses. Not a propaganda piece that promotes this or that value for newcoming workers.
But what if they're a person that does something protective for new workers, e.g., a fatherlike company foreman, that also happens to be a piece of propaganda that promotes values, e.g. to trust your foreman? That doesn't seem very simple at all. I'm also not sure what you mean by "propaganda," either -- one could interpret the John Henry story as being pro- or anti-establishment, depending on how you look at it. I know for a fact I have been exposed to anti-establishment versions that depict the events as tragically heroic.

What is "propaganda" other than an opinionated piece of art whose viewpoint you happen to disagree with?

>You have guys that by law and custom are above the people for which they stand for. And yet they stand for the little men, rather than turning their backs.
But this sounds something like my foreman example, though, doesn't it? A propaganda piece that emphasizes the protective nature of the upper class (what is the mythological distinction between "people above the people they stand for" and "The Man"?) towards the lower class which is informed it should revere them.

>>51049122
>Burger still desperately trying to claim his country has culture or even such trival things like folk heroes
Anon, I've got a clue for you. The biggest "test" of folk hero status is the source of the legend.
If it's not a thing coming from the bottom, a "grassroot" cration, then you are fucked.

And you still don't understand what a folk hero is, by the way. For you it appears to be some sort of buzzword for people to worship and/or praise for their deeds. Maybe open the fucking dictionary if it's so hard to grasp already.

Also, pro tip:
No matter the effort, you won't shit up anything of any value, because there is nothing to shit up. And that's one of those things you can ALWAYS poke at burgers and they can only sit silent or throw a tantrum

>>51049153
Serious question - are you for real or just trolling?
Because I can't believe one can be so work-centric in perception of this shit.

Are all Americans brainwashed or something? I mean Germans are pretty much all about working hard, but they grasp this shit without any issues. But ask American and he will start talking about working hard as a way of being heroic.

>>51049153
Ok, let's assume you weren't trolling.

The difference between legend and propaganda is the source of it and usually the intention too. Legend comes from bottom to top, propaganda - from top to bottom. Legend is a tall story turned into (local) folklore, propaganda is a creation made to achieve specific goals and reactions.

If you can't see the difference, then you are simply helpless case.

Meanwhile, it's 6 AM, so the end of the graveyard shift.

>>51038873
This.

Picture Dwayne Johnson working the land.

>>51038895
So common that they cease to have an identity of their own, and dissolve into the communal consciousness?

>>51048570
>Instantly splatter cocksure level 2 PC with a hoe
>"GET OFF MUH LAWN"

File: tumblr_n3f336zz8l1qak3qto1_500.gif (913KB, 500x207px) Image search: [Google]

913KB, 500x207px

>>51049297

File: mike-rowe.jpg (22KB, 500x333px) Image search: [Google]

22KB, 500x333px

>>51038781

>>51049015
Stop undermining their national mythology.

The founding fathers were heroes, true American patriots and not British traitors who chose rebellion over national loyalty.

The King of England was an evil tyrant who's reign of barbarity came to an end when Americans threw off their shackles and declared America to be the world's first and greatest democracy where all men are created equal*.

GOD BLESS AMERICA

>*Terms and conditions apply.

>>51049242
>>51049218
I'm not trolling, not even close. I am, however, treating "folk hero" as a literary term: I'm not certain that you are, because your definition seems rooted in history, not literature.

Because the problem with saying "bottom to top" vs. "top to bottom" is how, in many cases, you simply may not know which is which -- even in cases where you have all the available historical details!

Let's take King David for example. I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that King David -- who slew Goliath with a rock from a sling, slept in a den of lions, whose music soothed the mad king Saul -- was a folk hero. However, although there is some extrabiblical evidence that David existed (the book of Kings was a literary work: it contains four different Saul/David accounts), there is no way of knowing if David actually did anything even remotely resembling these accounts.

And yet, we know from the book of Deuteronomy that there was a reformist, centralist Israelite faction that was VERY interested in making David look as good as possible, because they were politically inclined towards making Israel a monarchy. It's almost certain that they contributed, editorially, to the book of Kings, and many other books of the Hebrew Bible besides.

So is King David a folk hero, or not? Did his legend begin in actions, or propaganda?

File: 12.jpg (145KB, 768x612px) Image search: [Google]

145KB, 768x612px

>>51049368
>national loyalty
lol, loyalty to the British banks, maybe. The same banks that strongarmed Parliament into forbidding the colonists from printing their own scrip, one of the hidden reasons for the war. God forbid that the people look out for their own interests instead of allowing their revenue to be farmed by some inbred Dutch cretins so that Shlomo can order another brace of Christian children to crucify during Lent.

But no, you'd actively advocate for getting kiked by a bunch of bankers. That's in vogue today, everyone's lining up to have their currency replaced with some tiered Kosher debt scheme.

>>51049194
>Maybe open the fucking dictionary if it's so hard to grasp already.

Merriam-Webster
Definition of folk hero: a person who is greatly admired by many people of a particular kind or in a particular place.

Macmillan Dictionary
Someone who is admired for their achievements by the ordinary people of a particular region.

Wikipedia (I know, I know)
A folk hero or national hero is a type of hero–real, fictional or mythological–with the sole salient characteristic being the imprinting of his or her name, personality and deeds in the popular consciousness of a people. This presence in the popular consciousness is evidenced by its historical frequency in folk songs, folk tales and other folklore; and its modern trope status in literature, art and films.

You are attempting to make an assertion that folk heroes must fit a very particular mold. This is your definition, and it is pointless to argue it, since you will simply restate that anything that doesn't fit your definition is inferior.

But the simple fact is that folk heroes can follow many different stories because cultures are, surprise surprise, actually rather diverse. The wild west creates vastly different folk heroes (Davy Crockett, Annie Oakley, Doc Holiday) compared to the revolutionary war (Paul Revere, the founding fathers, etc).

Each hero can represent a different culture touchstone, including independence, exploration, prowess and skill, female empowerment, racial equality, the strength of man compared to machine, honor and duty, compassion and mercy, and any other theme that captures the imagination of the people.

"A folk hero has to represent the theme I like" is sheer ignorance of the vast array of heroes and legends that occur throughout the world's cultures.

>>51049393
Are you serious?
If we're just going from the Biblical account, Saul was nutbars and David's kids nearly ruined the political situation in Israel until Solomon.
If they were trying to make David look good, they only partially succeeded, because by Biblical accounts, he was a hero, but a hero that suffered from the same flaws as most people.
Or are we just gonna ignore the part where they kept Uriah's death by betrayal ordered by David in?
I'd say he was a folk hero, simply because of his origins.

>>51049104

No.

Your frontiers were all settled up and partitioned long ago. Our frontier culture is much more recent.

Also, >le niggers

So edgy.

WE DO NOT ASCRIBE TO YOUR ETHNOSTATE DEFINITION OF FOLK HEROES, GO BACK TO /POL/

>>51049478
>simply because of his origins.
What origins? You mean the ones that, for all you know, were invented by the people propping him up for propaganda?
>they only partially succeeded, because by Biblical accounts, he was a hero, but a hero that suffered from the same flaws as most people
It's nice of you to bring that up, because David's sins are actually used to make him look even more heroic, by showing that he was chosen by God. When Saul fucked up, or pretty much anybody else failed to keep someone from worshipping a giant bull, the Deuteronomic God almost generally punishes them for their sins, but He didn't kill David for Uriah's death.

Why not? David was the chosen king of the Israelite people: it wouldn't have made sense for YHWH to repudiate him That is the story as told by the royalist Deuteronomists, of course.

It's crucial for you to understand this; the line between "propaganda" and everything else is more or less subjective unless you define "propaganda" as a piece of art that simply aims to persuade its audience of something: this naturally means that a great deal of myth and legends must also be considered "propaganda," including the stories of many folk heroes.

File: IMG_1207.png (252KB, 500x453px) Image search: [Google]

252KB, 500x453px

>>51048677
>>51048733
You know, I can concede some of the points you're making despite the fact you've clearly got something shoved far up your ass the way you're saying it, but fuck you where John Henry is concerned.

The message of John Henry is absolutely not that it's okay to work black people to death, nor is it that it's okay to work your employees so hard they die. If you had even a vague idea what you were talking about, you would know this. John Henry is supposed to be -exactly- what you're saying a folk hero has to be; Someone who stick some it to the man. Let's have a quick history lesson; Around the time John Henry's myth became a thing, we had people called Robber Barons, greedy little fucks that, for the most part, made their fortunes off the railroad business, the same business John Henry worked in. If there was a way for them to replace all their workers with machines and Davenport money, they -absolutely- would have.

John Henry was as blue collar as you can get. He was a former slave who moved west and started a family, living the American dream of moving up from where you started (in his case, from a slave to a free man with his own family and no one cracking a whip to keep him working). Sure, having a robber baron for a boss isn't much better, but he was able to live his own life and start a family, which was a big step up. But now comes along that greedy faggot of a boss saying "I have a machine to do your work for cheap. Get lost, I'm not paying you anymore". John Henry looks at his family (who he wouldn't be able to feed if he was fired), looks at his peers who probably are all in the same boat, grabs his hammer and says "Fuck you and your machine, I'm gonna make a bet with you. I'm gonna prove I'm better than your machine, and if I win everybody keeps their jobs".

>>51049811
And then he wins, dying in the process. I'm sure you'll argue that's not very heroic since it means those people are just going back to their shitty job under a shitty boss, but you know what? Their families didn't starve, they didn't lose their homes. John Henry didn't tear down the shitty system, no, but he gave up his life for something he -could- do; Save everyone's jobs so no one will starve to death.

John Henry is a folk hero in the truest sense of the term. He's not some great hero like people from legitimate myths like Hercules or King Arthur, he's still just a normal man (albeit a really strong one). He can't change the whole fucking system, he's just a strong dude with a hammer, the fuck can he do about a bunch of rich assholes he's probably never met? Yet his determination and desire to help his peers led him to accomplish something most normal people couldn't do, out-performing a machine. It's a small victory for the people, but it's a victory no one would have won if he hadn'g stepped up. It's small, but still heroic in its own ways. And yes, the theme involves capitalism. Whoever would have thought that a young country developing a new ideology would involve that ideology in some of their folk tales? Next you'll tell me a lot of American folk heroes were frontiersmen because America was on some kinda frontier or something, and normal people living in America started romanticizing people who brave that frontier. What a ridiculous idea that would be!

TL;DR - You're a loud faggot with no idea what he's talking about, and you should probably get a doctor to help you pull that massive stick out of your ass.

>>51049615
Saul wasn't killed directly either, he killed himself after being defeated in battle.
David repented of his sin after getting BTFO by Nathan, and the illegitimate child he had was a miscarriage as the punishment. Then Absalom, his kid, killed the actual incest rapist Amnon, also David's kid, and then Absalom committed treason.
That sequence is more of a recollection of a confusing political time in Israel's history than any glorification of the throne. Samuel even says in Samuel 1 8-10, "Hey, having a king is probably going to suck and God's not going to remove him from power when he fucks with you because you asked for him."
I think you're overstating the influence of a single political faction in the Bible.

>>51049877
Correction, I remembered it as a miscarriage, but the kid was alive for a short period before dying.

>>51049877
>he killed himself after being defeated in battle
Actually, he asked someone to kill him and tell David that he had died. David then killed the guy that killed Saul for daring to touch the King, even under that same King's orders. Again: royalist propaganda at play here. And as I mentioned previously, that's only one of several stories about how David ascended to the throne, all of which portray David in a heroic light.
>I think you're overstating the influence of a single political faction in the Bible.
I don't think I am. All I've stated is that the Deuteronomic faction edited parts of (not all of!) the Hebrew Bible to better reflect their Biblical, royalist, monotheistic point of view. All I need to support is the claim that David's origins as a folk hero are very much intertwined with the fact that he was useful as a tool for propaganda, which he is: he's represented many times as the forerunner to a future, idyllic Israelite dynasty, and later the Messiah; on the other end of his ancestry, the book of Ruth claims that its protagonists were ancestors of David in order to hit home its own message.

>>51049393
>I seriously and honestly don't understand the concept of a folk hero and how a legend differs from propaganda piece
It's not even funny, because it's genuine inability to grasp such basic concept.

>>51049545
Ask Russians how they were still settling the frontier in 1950s. Or just about everyone and their dog by the middle of 19th century, aka the same time when burgers were doing so.
Oh, right, that doesn't counts, because only Americans can brag about it, right?

Community organizer, somebody who everyone can depend on

File: SOCRATES.png (81KB, 1200x1592px) Image search: [Google]

81KB, 1200x1592px

>>51050130
>inability
I hope you will not disparage me merely for a lack of knowledge! You see, I am very willing to learn from you, for I am very ignorant in these manners, and if you see that I am ignorant you must be wise. I would like to learn from your wisdom, so tell me, friend, what is "propaganda" and how does it differ from "an opinionated piece of art"?

>>51050181
>An opinionated piece of art is propaganda
I mean, in the token sense?
If you really want to die on that hill, you can count on +90% of history having a leaning of some sort or other. Just because writers are biased (and are arguably inherently biased due to the fact that they intentionally recorded the events and thus have an investment in them) doesn't create an automatic case for dismissing the accuracy of the material OR automatically paint everything as an opportunity for the author's bias to be projected onto.
You're associating intent to inform with intent to deceive way more than you need to.

>>51050181
>Bringing Socrates on his side
That's the easiest way to loose juse about any argument. Just ask Socrates how his stupid notion of arguing until the other side gets tired and admits you are right worked for him. I mean you really didn't think they've sentenced him to death because he was giving young boys strange looks, did you?

>>51050181
How turn already bad quarrel into utterly helpless shitstorm?
Try maieutics, of course!

>>51050223
I'm somewhat confused. You still have not told me what "propaganda" is, but you seem to be saying that propaganda necessarily involves deceit.

But that can't be the case, or else advertisements for joining the United States Army (which to my knowledge do not lie, but are merely more interested in emotional appeals than ones that interact with facts at all) would not count as propaganda. But I understand these advertisements to be propaganda. Is that true?

>>51050266
>>51050290
Oh, lighten up. My point in posting him was that it was pretty obviously a rhetorical question, so claiming that it indicated an "inability to understand" on my part was missing the point. Asking rhetorical questions so that people will clarify how they're using the terms they're using is perfectly reasonable.

>>51048677
>see some sort of pattern
murdering people because they didn't want to pay taxes

>>51048486
Keiichi from Ah! My Goddess is pretty low-key. He just intos motorcycles and small-engine stuff.

>>51050298
Anon, don't want to break it for you, but this >>51050223 was written by different anon than >>51050130 this (which is mine)

>>51050348
What about that race car?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MV1oATMwVV8

>>51050348

And getting brainwashed

>>51050379
Of course not. It says right in the name field that Anonymous wrote both of those posts.
But seriously, does it matter? Each of my posts references the posts it replies to pretty specifically, so it doesn't really change anything that I said to know that two different people made two different posts.

File: Nowy obraz mapy bitowej.png (8KB, 855x104px) Image search: [Google]

8KB, 855x104px

>>51050379
Just in case

File: A is you, rest is confusion.png (17KB, 568x485px) Image search: [Google]

17KB, 568x485px

>>51050431
It does chance a very important element of your (pretty lame, but what to expect if you are using Socrates) tactics to win an eristic competition.
Namely - you can't appeal to personal knowledge and experience if you shuffle between people talking with you. In short - you can't use single target tactics against a group of people, because they won't work. The other anon can't answer question or react in any meaningful way, because you are asking him about things he didn't do nor said. You are trying to push into a corner someone who (probably) wasn't even talking with you previously.
A nice graph, so you can grasp this with your Socratean mind

>>51050538
Just to make it 100% sure you get the point - you are making an idiot out of yourself with assumption you are talking with a single person, as your entire line works only if you continously keep pounding the same person.
Which is just one of few reasons why maieutics sucks flacid cocks.

>>51048486
DARLING from Monmusu qualifies. He cooks and suffers a whole lot of abuse.

>>51050538
Fuck me, that makes a lot of sense. I don't think I needed the chart but thank you anyway. You seem to know a lot more about the theory of this stuff than I do, I mostly posted Socrates because I know about the Socratic method (that seems to be the same as the "maieutics" thing you're mentioning, which is a new term to me) and that Socrates mostly took apart peoples' positions by asking pointed questions. I don't actually know that much about actual theories of how arguments work aside from your common entry level stuff, I think.

It seems to leave me in a but of a corner myself, though, at least as far as arguments on 4chan are concerned. How is one supposed to argue with people if one can't know they're only arguing with one other person? I've already stated my own claims earlier (that folk heroes can emerge from propaganda, which is just opinionated art), but as far as I can tell nobody's even noticed them except for whoever it was that claimed them as evidence that I was "incapable" of comprehending the concept of propaganda -- which I don't think follows from what I claimed, for what it's worth.

Just remember folks, everything America ever did is terrible and what American's believe in is for retards.

At least that's what I learned in this thread.

>>51038781
The old guy who drinks slot and has "seen some shit". Sole survivor of the war, the zompocalypse, ect, you imagine it, this poor bastard has survived or escaped it.
Probably a miserable sort who has outlived everyone they ever cared about.
If they were a bard, they would be Johnny Cash.
But they're not, so they're just sad drunks.

File: oni-blooded tiefling uses Overrun.gif (1MB, 540x304px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 540x304px

>>51050625
>implying he isn't Gestalted with Invulnerable Rager

How else would he have all that DR?

>>51050667
No, no. He just has really high Con and Toughness. The PF version.

File: nice trips.gif (4MB, 350x188px) Image search: [Google]

4MB, 350x188px

>>51050666
That's actually a pretty good assessment there, Satan!

>>51041192

> Use Rope (Dex)

I now want to make a Commoner character who basically rodeo's the fuck out of enemies and makes nets and shit.

>>51050662
>How is one supposed to argue with people if one can't know they're only arguing with one other person?
You don't
The basic idiocy that Socrates introduced into European culture was the assumption that with sufficient weight of argument, you can convince people to your opinion. It made marvels for hard science, but absolutely backfired everywhere else, as there are people honestly believing they can sway opinions by just making strong enough arguments, and not, say, argument of strength.

And you've been side-tracked, which is - depending on how badly you fucked up - either pointing out that your are incompetent and your knowledge on given subject is lacking OR that people are tired of your shit and not-so-subtly tell you to shut the fuck up.

>>51051348
>strong enough arguments, and not, say, argument of strength.
Are you suggesting that the only way to sway people is by force? I'm not sure what you mean by "argument of strength" as opposed to "strong argument."

I already admitted I don't know much formal theory on arguing, and I made all the points I could make before, so I don't think that getting side-tracked at this point is such a bad thing. If I can get something out of it by asking you questions that'd be nice too, but I don't expect too much. Getting into discussions like these with expectations isn't usually worth it.

>commie derails thread in typical commie fashion
>always buttmad due to forever being bitch of Merica

lol

File: pol derails.png (115KB, 356x438px) Image search: [Google]

115KB, 356x438px

>>51051521

>>51051493
You don't get it, do you? You literally CAN'T sway people, unless you force them to do so. Which means either literal application of force, or a scheme that will make them change their mind (like propaganda). But logical arguments are literally useless, just like the emotional ones.

>>51051570
I understand what you're saying, but I'm not certain I believe you yet. And besides, doesn't propaganda frequently use emotional appeals to make people change their minds? That seems like a contradiction, although I don't think it undermines your main point.

>>51048915
Sounds like some sort of edgy counter myth to me.

>>51051570
I realize that this is the case 99% of the time (and when I realized it, it made me sad), but it's still worth trying for the 1% imo.

Besides, repeating logical arguments is sort of forcing someone in itself. And if it doesn't matter if you make them or not anyway, you may as well make them, if it makes you feel better about it.

File: 000.jpg (88KB, 720x540px) Image search: [Google]

88KB, 720x540px

>>51038781

>>51049194
Please take some time from your husy schedule of felating Marx's corpse to show that all of these Folk heroes you denounce are 100% corporate propaganda if you're going to assert they don't have any trass roots origins.

>>51050145
I can give you Russia, but the rest of Europe had more distant colonization efforts with less sense of unity, and kost of those failed.

Whole lotta No True Folkhero fallacy going on here

File: 2016-12-24 17_05_38-Dragon Magazine #330.pdf - [Dragon Magazine #330] - SumatraPDF.png (663KB, 754x1080px) Image search: [Google]

663KB, 754x1080px

>>51038781
>>51038781
>>51038781
>>51038781
The most Dangerous Necromancer in the lands.
Include this as a High CL encounter that comes off as innocent as he/she carries the pig along the road and the party thinks nothing of it until "that-guy" makes him drop it.

>>51051679
Not him, but let's see
>Johnny Appleseed
A real guy who was a schemer going for surplus of cheap apples good to turn into mash
>Paul Bunyan
A product of an advertising campaign by lumber company
>John Henry
A late 19th century story about cheap labourers in general (be them Afro-Americans or Chinese) dying by a dozen while being exploited while laying down railroads. Absolutely zero meaning culturaly, because in those times Luddite movements were long dead (thus can't be traced to those) and the legend content is extremely pro-hard labour, despite fatal ending. In the same time the story is about minority explitation, which makes it at best romanticised concern. Which all in total just doesn't click down

And it's nice to know having actual cultural identity instead of artificial one is equal with being dirty godless commie traitor (mutant too?). Also daily reminder Captain America was considered by burgers epitome of folk hero in the 40s. A literal propaganda piece.

Still want to add something, boyo?

>>51051646
Then check gentelman known as John Chapman (1774-1845).

It really takes to be a burger to not know the guy was real and was nothing like the myth he pretty much self-created to help his business

>>51053002
And speaking of shitty American "folklore" - thanks for ruining Christmas and St. Nicholaus Day forever with your shitty Santa Clause.

>>51039099
Luca isn't a pure commoner she has levels in Expert (prostitute)

>>51053036

You're welcome. Honestly, your anger at American culture's superiority brings a smile to my face.

>>51052424
Taking Chicken Infested and XP Farm actually seems really overpowered, you get two free feats with no actual downside (Hell chicken infested seems like a Pro not a Con)

>>51053042
LUCA IS PURE!

PURE COMMON WHORE!

>>51038781
So like Jackie Chan in those movies in which he pretends not to know how to beat the hell out of people?

>>51053114
I was originally going to write something dirty about how she had feats in dicksucking or something. But it just didn't feel right to talk that way about Luca.

>>51039022
He did do training with the soldier girl (Anaise, I think her name was) after losing Gandalfr, and when he regained it it basically put him into top tier since Actual Training + Supernatural instinctual proficiency stacks absurdly well.

>>51053045
>Superiority
In promotion? Because that's literally the only thing it's superior - world-wide promotion. Usually related with stupid post-war deals in tune of "we will cancel your debt, but open for the flood of our shitty films".
The fact something so bland and artificial is dominating is simply sickening.

Level 20 means they have gone through a lot of shit, survived dangerous situations. You don't get to level 20 by simply farming.

A level 20 farmer would be a frontiersman who has gone through multiple famines, plagues, maybe wars. He knows many different skills about how to live in the frontier, from building a house to taming a horse to digging fresh water wells to fighting, even though he has never received any formal training on any of those. He's probably a local legend and people from towns over come to him for advice.

>>51053618
What if the character got a free level on their birthday every year until they were 20?

It was due to the Prophecy of the Commoner, Slayer of housecats.

>>51046176
Fukn sensitive handed noblemen lmao

They'd be the equivalent of a level ten warrior. Pretty much a speed bump to anything but a pack of newbie adventurers or a goblin raiding party.

>>51046732
>Americans have always been relatively simple people
ftfy

>>51053102
>go to draw weapon
>it's a chicken
>ur dead AND the baddie who kilt u lvl up

"no"

>>51054137
>buy a dagger one gold piece
>draw it 4 time to have two chickens
>sell the two chickens for 2 gold piece
>repeat
>become fucking rich
Creating chicken out of nowhere is fucking great

>All this europoor jealousy
delicious

>>51053618
Theoretically couldn't you actually get to lv 20 via simply farming?
You do get xp for killing things. Raise something mildly dangerous. Harvest it.Get xp. Advance to more dangerous livestock to grow as you level. That's not taking into consideration things like having to make traps against all the foul beasties roaming the land.
Then of course there's stealth to avoid the big bad wolf,, perception to see how the weather is coming or know to bring back the herd before predators attack, crafting skills to fix your equipment. etc etc
Actual farmwork in a fantasy setting legitimately seems like it would count for something.

File: 1400770257819.jpg (33KB, 511x629px) Image search: [Google]

33KB, 511x629px

>>51054390
>God of niggers

>>51054990
You don't get xp for killing things. You get xp for overcoming challenges appropriate to your level. Droughts, bad winters, neighbours quarreling over land, a thieving taxman, diseases of your plants and animals, a cow having a difficult birth, haggling over the price of your crops - all of these could be considered challenges at various points in a peasants career.

>>51053002
>Which all in total just doesn't click down
What does that mean at all? What's the significance of having to trace John Henry to a Luddite movement in the first place before you count him as a folk hero? Why are you skeptical that a folk hero could have a "pro-hard labor" story? And I'll ask again, how to you delineate propaganda from "legitimate" art in literary or historical terms, and specifically re: John Henry how do you twist the tragic ending into what necessarily must be a pro-industry moral? You can't just repeat yourself to make this question go away.

>Still want to add something?
How about our pantheons of cowboys and bank robbbers,,e.g., Pecos Bill, Bonnie & Clyde, Butch Cassidy, all those moonshine runners, and "Pretty Boy" Floyd, who notably was known as the "Robin Hood of the Cookson Hills."

>>51047559
This is what a commoner lvl20 sounds like.

>>51054954
>Europe Folk heros
>Joan of Arc
>King Arthur
>William Wallace

>USA folk hero
>A guy who planted apple tree
>a lumberjack

Jealous of what?

>>51055129
That would be why dangerous is used as an adjective for the livestock. You'd get xp for killing a sufficiently challenging or dangerous creature. The fact that you raised it and can set things up to have the least danger shouldn't matter much so long as it's sufficiently troublesome as far as its challenge rating goes. That's just using the abilities/skillsets inherent to your class and RPing it properly.

>>51055210
Joan of arc and William Wallace weren't folk heroes they were real people

>>51038781
Why would an NPC's abilities need to be measured in a delineated class structure?

>>51053002
Actually... Appleseed was more like a guy taking advantage of and gaming real estate laws.
If you planted enough trees it counted as land you developed which meant you owned it back then so he'd plant some trees, leave, and then sell the land once enough time passed for them to naturally grow.

>>51055210
>schizofrenic crossdresser burned at stake
>table boy
>potato lad mad about taxes gets drawn and quartered for being a mild inconvenience

>>51038781
Once common people start leveling up the entire setting gets really stupid and the fiction just goes out the window.

Levels are already incredibly stupid as it is, and only become slightly less stupid when they're restricted to player characters who for some reason are able to transcend human limits and become retardedly op compared to a normal fit and healthy human.

>The village hunter saves the day since he's amassed so much xp from killing all those wolves and deer.

>Town guard flips out and goes on a murderous rampage, unstoppable because of all those levels he has from fighting goblin raiders and street thugs.

>>51055210
Other countries have shitty 'folk heroes' too.

Like Scotland has Rob Roy, a cattle-thief and a turncoat who for some reason is treated as heroic by fiction.

Or "Bonny Prince Charlie", some poncy noble who tried to gain power for himself and failed, then ran away to France.

>>51055262
>potato lad mad about taxes
Just like the 13 colonies.

>>51055227
they can be both

>>51055266
>Levels are already incredibly stupid as it is, and only become slightly less stupid when they're restricted to player characters who for some reason are able to transcend human limits and become retardedly op compared to a normal fit and healthy human.
5e avoids this. Even if you're super stronk you can still dick up on rolls because of "bounded accuracy" I think they called it. No threat is so small they can't possibly hit you.

>>51055286
Yeah, except we accomplished something with that anger.

>>51055317
So... house cats can kill legendary heroes?

>>51050667
>>51050674
>>51050625

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKEGsNi_5Nc

He also apparently as Improved Unarmed Strike, or at least a single level dip in Brawler.

>>51055343
With a stroke of luck, I guess.

>>51055343
I mean, maybe. If it were a very lucky housecat that happened to be inclined to violence, maybe, and the legendary hero happened to be feeling really ill that day or something... it seems like a stretch, honestly. I'm curious to know how many normal housecats are actually capable of killing normal hero, because I really don't think it's very many.

Short answer: in theory, maybe?

>>51055378
>actually capable of killing normal hero
was supposed to say "actually killing normal people"

>>51055378
Peasants live in fear of the cat menace, their only hope for survival is to carry emergency pouches of Nepeta Cataria

>>51049455
It didn't help you though, because your country still sucks Rothschild dick. How bout that?

>>51038781
Why don't any commoners just pick up a trusty katana and become an adventurer like any sensible person would?

>>51038781
Alright everyone, let's just settle this here and now. A level 20 commoner is a
>level 1 adventurer, any class

Look at background packages of starting characters, it's stuff like folk heroes, mage apprentices, acolytes, ect ect All these background packages are "normal guy who was a cut above all the other normal guys"

The moment a person becomes distinguishable for something, they specialize in an actual player class.

To put it another way, being a PC is a prestige class for the Literally Who class

The only exception is Mike Rowe, who levels at the same pace and power level as a Commoner as real Player characters.

>>51055343
>>51055378

Nah. A housecat has a +0 on attack rolls, so the highest it could roll is a 20 on any given attack. Since most legendary heroes would have over 20 AC, it means that the cat can only hit on 20's (since they are automatically successful hits). Even then, it only does 1 slashing damage. That means that the cat would have to hit a level 20 wizard with 10 con 63 times (at 5% chance to hit), in order to drop him to 0 hp.

If the character has any resistance to slashing damage, it actually becomes impossible for the cat to kill them.

>>51055490
To be fair, a level 20 commoner is probably more equivalent to a level 3 adventurer (5e). At that high of a level they would already be branching into a specialization.

A level 10 commoner would be closers to a level 1 adventurer or the experiences of a background package.

Keep in mind the vast majority of commoner NPCs are going to be commoner level 1-5, so that's why a level 10-20 has broken into PC realm.

>>51055337
France accomplished something with that anger. The Colonies just faffed about ineffectually until Britain couldn't afford to keep dividing its priorities.

>>51055227
Anon, MOST of folk heroes were real.

Not everyone is so deprived of figures like burgers to invent entire characters from a scratch.
In fact, from all listed Old World folk heroes in this thread, only Robin Hood is fictional. Everyone else was an actual living and breathing human being.

So you seriously think anyone is jelous of Clappistani invented "heroes"?

>>51055284
>Rob Roy
>Quintessential Scottsman who was stealing from English and keeping for himself
If you don't understand why this guy is considered a hero in Scottish literature, you've probably missed last 800 years of Scottish-English relations.

>>51055284
The folk heroes from my country are respectively a highlander robber who indeed was splitting most of his loot with locals AND a nobleman who was playing with alchemy. Not to mention all the local versions of "brave peasant and his wise wife beat the devil in its own games"

>>51055262
>Scotland
>Potato lad
Anon, it really takes to be American to confuse Ireland with Scotland. Is taco also your favourite Italian food?

>>51055467
Because commoners can't own katanas, you mong.

>>51055337
Excuse me, did you just implied Wallace didn't?

>>51055317
> No threat is so small they can't possibly hit you

Right, because that's all that matters, the massive difference in how much damage you can survive and how much you can dish out surely surely doesn't make the heroes feel inhuman next to normal people.

File: 1450787227773.jpg (105KB, 600x862px) Image search: [Google]

105KB, 600x862px

I always found the Commoner class ridiculous. It is a SHIT class, and that is its entire point... so why have levels for it at all? It is more like Racial Hit Dice for Humanoids. Any time I would want a high-level NPC I would be better off using a PC class to do it, since a character with that much significance might as well have class features as well.

>>51056002
So if I sold a commoner a katana, or gave it away for free, it still wouldn't be theirs?

>>51038895
>>51049297

How do you fight an enemy you can't even keep track off, focus on, or remember?

File: Jack Hinson.jpg (172KB, 606x474px) Image search: [Google]

172KB, 606x474px

>>51046245
>Europoor
>Judging Americans on "Folk" traditions in any way
Remember that the United states is pretty much the only country in the western world that is based in tradition - the southern states reenact epic battles, some songs sung here date all the way back to the beginning of the united states or even before that in the case of some Irish jigs. Midwestern states are pretty much a massive expanse of farmland dappled with small towns which essentially propagate and continue old traditions/festivals ect.

Last time I checked the united states only boasts Portland,Cali,and the NE as generators of tradition shattering multicultural nihilism. The entirety of France is gone, and Ireland/Scotland hasn't been tribalism or culturally nationalist since the 90s, Jolly old England is too weak to make any meaningful decisions, and Germany has abandoned its traditions and folk in order to capitulate to non-economic silly immigration policy and Orwellian level reeducation of its civilians. Shit even the nords traditions are dieing in their frozen north due to this.

Europe really has no ground to criticize I would say Russia could but they only recently found their roots and destroyed most of their folk-history during their communist rot.

>Pic related TOPTIER folkhero

A level 20 commoner would be the equivalent of a IRL bodybuilder.

Very strong, but nothing on a DnD level

>>51047020
>I think the guy you're responding to may have more been talking about the always latent connection between American folk heroes and capitalism present in practically all of them

Considering that at least one of the three folk heroes named (Paul Bunyan) was created by a marketing firm in the 20th century to sell pancakes, it's not that surprising.

>>51055210
>Guy who basically started orchards by himself
Useful
>A lumberjack
The biggest, most hilariously badass lumberjack you've ever heard of.

Also
>A steel-driving man who could dig faster than a steam-powered machine meant to do his job better.
>A guy who ate dynamite, used a rattlesnake as a whip, and lasso'd a twister.

And a great deal more.

>>51058302
>Jolly old England is too weak to make any meaningful decisions
England is literally the only part of the UK worth anything

>>51038781

Son that woman literally became a Godess in those books, though admittedly other than that she was pretty much absolutely useless.

File: pecos bill.jpg (211KB, 600x733px) Image search: [Google]

211KB, 600x733px

>>51050703
>I now want to make a Commoner character who basically rodeo's the fuck out of enemies and makes nets and shit.

>>51056908
You don't. Level 20 commoners are a ruse, you shouldn't believe in nonsense like that.

File: 1478657592669.jpg (13KB, 286x176px) Image search: [Google]

13KB, 286x176px

>>51058774
>Level 20 commoners are a ruse

File: 4ee7f15b2fe638708168768bb2b09130.jpg (35KB, 500x562px) Image search: [Google]

35KB, 500x562px

>>51054954
It *is* pretty funny how every time a thread mentions Americans, some Europeans show up to try and convince everyone that their landmass is better.

>>51055490
>To put it another way, being a PC is a prestige class for the Literally Who class
I agree with this, for level 1 at least. Even in more high-adventure sorts of RPGs, level 1 is virtually always going to be pretty grounded.

>The moment a person becomes distinguishable for something, they specialize in an actual player class.
I disagree with this. NPCs in most class-based games shouldn't be built full-stop from player class levels, typically that introduces issues and risks important enemies becoming indistinct or predictable. If you think they need a class feature, just add that rather than applying level progression.

File: 1464682595658.jpg (180KB, 517x768px) Image search: [Google]

180KB, 517x768px

>>51058431
>That feel when people from Wales regularly laugh at how shitty London is
>Even sheep fuckers look down at britbongs now

File: fedora.gif (2MB, 331x248px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 331x248px

>>51054954
this.
>B-buht my swordsman and joan of arc!!!!
>I know people dont care about european tradition and our own citizens are destroying our history and identity but its still better than amerifats...r-right?
>Listen I know western europe is essentially a whirlpool of culturally destructive pseudo-trotiskyist nihilism but its fine!
>France might be a complete failure and artists are no longer being born on their streets.... and the cathedrals and churches remain empty because of vacuous intellectual charlatanism BUT LISTEN ITS still..better..than burger land :(
> You know.. with their celebrations of independence, rights, masculinity, military might, tradition, reverence of the founding fathers, civil war reenactment culture, the folk music revitalization which was ironically spurred by hipsters... Its all overreated really..

>>51041230
>>51041341
actually that doesn't sounds bad to roleplay, shit my next character will be a commoner

File: 4def9c72144cf.jpg (27KB, 247x214px) Image search: [Google]

27KB, 247x214px

>>51055262
>>schizofrenic crossdresser burned at stake
>>table boy
>>potato lad mad about taxes gets drawn and quartered for being a mild inconvenience
Oh fuck i havnt laughted this hard in a while

"Potato lad" - William Wallace is basically a bitch tier sidekick to some Scottish version of batman

>>51046245
Don't talk shit about cider you faggot.

>>51047273
The concepts in this post are important. What the rest of you don't seem to be realizing is that this is all tied in with American culture, in general and at the time.

A lot of America's folk heroes either come from the days of the Revolution, or they come about during America's expanse westward. To make stakes in new land, to work hard in growing fields. These later heroes are figures of skill and progress as the country conquered the vast wilderness and tamed the land. Whether they're just working hard, or they are legends told among the wild west, they are the fruits of America's growth into the massive country that it is now. And who better for them to be, than just astonishingly good working men, or wild ideas of what they knew and lived in at the time?

>>51058302
>and the NE
Fuck, I read that as Neutral Evil before Northeast.

File: Laugh like there is no tomorrow.gif (2MB, 230x175px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 230x175px

>>51058302
>Remember that the United states is pretty much the only country in the western world that is based in tradition
Nigga change dealer. You don't even fucking know what tradition is.

There is such joke in my country. The punch-line goes like this:
Careful, that chair is older than America.

>>51056083
You literally couldn't do that.
Unless you plan on being sentenced to death, along with the commoner.

And selling your sword to a merchant (that's not commoner, that's even worse and still, those were the only people who had the right to take your sword) was pretty much a disgrace worth killing yourself, because it was pretty much equal to selling your organs. Besides, it wasn't even officially sold, just pawned.

>>51058429
Funny, because burgers never can't recall those "more"

And we already discussed countless times why they are really shitty

>>51061197
Anon, you've just explained yourself why they are propaganda pieces and not fok heroes. Congratulations, I guess

File: Salty dance.webm (144KB, 320x320px) Image search: [Google]

144KB, 320x320px

>ITT: Salty burgers with no culture BTFO yet again

>>51061931
If you want to make that argument, you have to scrape back to their origins.

Paul Bunyan stories were told for decades before they ever got to print.

John Henry's story may actually have been true, though it's difficult to pinpoint the exact details and veracity of it. There is at least enough evidence that some scholars believe it to be an actual historical incident.

The other reason why your argument is garbage is that you seem to think that there is some inherent thing about the purpose of the story that disqualifies it from being folklore of the time.

>>51061931
>morals I disagree with are propaganda

>>51061851
Please, tell us what country you're from.

File: image.jpg (51KB, 500x375px) Image search: [Google]

51KB, 500x375px

Why's everyone being such fucking faggots in this thread?

>>51061931
>implying folk heroes aren't propaganda

>>51056021
Well he did have a pretty alright movie

>>51062031
I'm pretty sure that's a joke in almost every country.

>>51062460
We've been over it already.

Not my fault you come with a country with no culture.

>>51062537
I hope you are not talking about Braveheart now

>>51062008
Anon, if a story is created outside "commoners" and spread outside commoners, then it hardly can be considered folklore, since it doesn't fit the bare basic requirements.

>>51062023
We've been over it already too. It has nothing to do with morals and cultural differences.

>>51063325
>Lumberjacks and steel driving/rail workers aren't commoners

Uhh...

>>51058302

I live down the road from a church that was built in the 9th century. Amerifat tradition is just the habits of morons whose collective age is about 12.

>>51063382
Jesus fucking Christ... you are doing this on purpose or something?
They can be a fucking king or a magician, but then need to be created as a legend among commoners. Not, say, a literature witz, who publishes this in a newspaper.

>>51063403
So they can't be fictional, or if they are, their author has to be unknown?
That seems kind of convoluted.

File: 1478140471826.jpg (140KB, 1111x597px) Image search: [Google]

140KB, 1111x597px

>All those butthurt Amerifats pretending their have traditions or culture
Stay mad and rekt.

>>51063442
Actually, I can't think of a folk hero that wasn't a real person. Aside of maybe Robin Hood, that is.

The point is they are created by commoners. Since you burgers never had such thing like commoners and a lot of "myths" were created as outright propaganda pieces for newspapers, this kinda works against you.

>>51063498
>Never had such things like commoners
Boy, you must be some kind of extra fucking uneducated.

>>51063516
Commoners as in peasantry, preferably serfs, you fucking moron.

>>51063516
>I don't understand what folklore is
Ebin

>>51063535
>Because they weren't medieval, they aren't poor or otherwise bottom of the barrel working class

No, you.

>>51063550
Not even him, but if you think impoverished farmers are the same stuff as serfs or even peasants, you are setting new record of retardation when it comes to American inabilty to grasp shit going outside their country.

File: 1457223581779.jpg (805KB, 1200x1000px) Image search: [Google]

805KB, 1200x1000px

>>51038781
would a level 20 commoner be an uncommoner?

asking for a friend

>>51063550
Because they weren't medieval, they never in the first place had a reason to create this shit. Ever occured to you that Clappistan was created when newspapers already were a thing, while the age of nationalism and imperialism was starting soon after, meaning a lot of centralised, standarised and industrailised effort to create common "background". Which can be pretty hard when you've been just started as a nation.
Hence why everyone is calling your "folk heroes" propaganda. Because they've are basically it. Their pattern of creation and whole origin are so different that they simply can't qualify.
Sorry mate, like the saying goes - it's not always Sunday.

>>51058302
>Ireland/Scotland hasn't been tribalism or culturally nationalist since the 90s

Never heard of the Waterford Anschluss then, or how a bridge the length of your living room splits a town between Carlow and Laois?

>Confirmed for knowing nothing about countries he's never visited but still posting in ignorance.

>>51063642
The only thing I'm getting out of this is that your definition of folk hero is different than America's.

I suppose Harriet Tubman isn't a folk hero then either or Louis and Clark.

>>51058302
Euopeans don't obsess about history and traditions the same way - they're everywhere. There's a popular museum here with costumes, armours and uniforms on display - things worn by kings who were born before the first settlers even set off to North America. There are buildings downtown that are older than the US, churches that predate it by hundreds of years.

I mean c'mon.

File: but.gif (11KB, 730x413px) Image search: [Google]

11KB, 730x413px

>>51063634
well, now I want to know too

>>51063634
what a spooky picture

File: Mint.gif (2MB, 268x205px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 268x205px

>>51048088
Perfect example

File: fmc403855a[1].jpg (170KB, 861x1200px) Image search: [Google]

170KB, 861x1200px

>>51061851
I can confirm that, that is a joke
here is one of the many chairs

North Arabia is awful loud today

> if I keep yelling it, it becomes more true
This is why Brexit won

>>51063700
> literally anyone caring about that regurgitation of land
> you can't beat my obscure evidence

File: 14798796598.jpg (52KB, 595x720px) Image search: [Google]

52KB, 595x720px

>>51064300
>>51064384
You don't even need flags to know which posters are americans.

>>51055214
That's where we differ. If the livestock isn't basically running around free I don't think it's really challenging. Like the difference between bull fighting and how a farmer kills a bull. (I think bull fighting is stupid and cruel though just fyi)

>>51064426
This is almost as good as England saying they're not part of Europe

>>51063459

Look, if white people don't have culture or traditions, it's all you Yuropoors and Brown/Black people's fault for not having any to appropriate.

>>51065569
>whites not yuropoor
>l'appropriation meme

>>51058774
...Holy shit, he's more powerful than we imagined.

File: 1482550244202.png (199KB, 446x548px) Image search: [Google]

199KB, 446x548px

>>51061851
>>51064126
>We have old chairs
>There for America has no traditions
Wow.... such stunning and profound statements...really makes ya think

File: 1482188898490.png (106KB, 956x864px) Image search: [Google]

106KB, 956x864px

>>51064426
>You don't even need flags to know which posters are Americans.
Oh shit we gotta psychic hacker over here... he can tell our bank accounts have more than 3 digits and we have testosterone levels higher than your average household cat.
>With weapons like this how will America ever compete with Britbongistan....

>>51058302
>>>/pol/

>>51061851
Yet we're still dominating the world. Sure, America's young, but our success speaks for itself. We're still young and in our prime, out there getting shit one and most making a name for our ourselves. Europoors used to be like that, then they got crusty and old, and now all they do is cling to old achievements and shout at younger countries for being young and "artificial" cause they're can't bear to admit no one wants them anymore.

By your logic, Greece should be fucking amazing. But hey, no one mentions modern Greece in these kind of discussions. Wonder why that is?

>>51067225
Stay salty, Burger

>>51071130
>Dominating the world
Anon, you know what everyone being fed up with you heralds?
That your entire soft power is going to shit.
You can congratulate both Bushes on that, by the way

And by your logic, America will be forever a leader, so what's your point, exactly? That bunch of morons need to compensate on every single fucking step, because they feel insecure about having no history and no traditions?

>>51038781
A king?

Dead for several decades?

>>51071811
>soft power

lel. populations liking your tweets is not soft power; lots of cash, a pivotal role as the only global superpower, and an R&D complex eclipsing the rest of the world is.

America needs to adjust to no longer being the only superpower, as China rises, but China is not and has no intentions of becoming a global power, and India is too culturally crippled to do anything.

>>51071837
>He really things burgerland is this powerful
How does it feel being eclipsed economically by Chinks, who in the same time own 2/3 of your national debt?

America needs to finally wake up, because this starts to getting delusional.

File: My sides.gif (4MB, 320x240px) Image search: [Google]

4MB, 320x240px

>>51071837
>China is not and has no intentions of becoming a global power
They've already did that 20 years ago, nice knowing you are seriously out of touch with world situation. Too busy chasing goat herders in useless piece of sandy mountains I guess.

>>51072035
>2/3 of your national debt
Kuwait owns more of the US debt than China.

>>51072050
>global Power

China is a regional Power you retard, they have influence in Asia and a but in Africa, but that's it

Global means the whole world, bitchboy

>>51071837
Soft power allows you to do the worst shit imaginable and nobody will mind, because you already made them your friends.
Using and abusing that quickly leads to situation where you are getting more and more alienated, because more and more people are fed up with your politics. Just think about it for the second - first Gulf War wasn't even recorded that much by rest of the world.
Second? Congratulations, nothing like wasting decades of influence to pull a war that brough absolutely nothing and only caused shitload of issues with which the supposed allies now need to deal, while Americans continously think everyone loves them, because they saw that new cool movie starring Tom Cruise.

You brought up China yourself. They are MASTERS of using soft power, because they've bought up half of Africa and NOBODY complained. Hell, most people didn't even notice.

>>51072090
Funny, because they own half of Africa, most of Australia and entire sectors of European economy are fully dependable on Chinese economic decisions.
But sure, China is regional power, right. Second global economy is regional, righto...

Let me guess - no power projection over seas, so can't be global power? Son, it's not the 50s or 19th century anymore. And a destroyer armed with bunch of rockets can put down billion-dollar worth carrier with all the costly equipment onboard with a rocket costing 50k.

Keep dreaming about China being regional

>>51072090
Son, I've got a clue for you. It's no longer 2000. China went global over a decade ago. But being true chess players, they did so without fanfare, promotion or making a show out of this. They simoly did so, and everyone still kept on underestimaging them.
Try doing business in raw resources and industrial goods without Chinese or Chinese-owned conglomerate. The entire Arab Spring was caused by a chain reaction caused by China rising prices of cereals after a drought, quickly inflating prices of food in Middle East. And people pissed they can't afford bread are the worst thing that can happen to any country.

File: 008989.png (43KB, 613x481px) Image search: [Google]

43KB, 613x481px

>>51072191
>new silk road
>african mines
>global

Don't confuse low-end economic market caps with global power. China doesn't have military ambitions beyond the regional, and high-end industrial process remains firmly outside its commercial reach.

You do you tho.

>>51072282
>If I will post Mount Stupid graph, I will win
It doesn't work this way.
Especially since it's you who rather than posting any real examples, just continously keep repeating like a mantra "China isn't global".
Funny how Americans almost pissed their pants becuase Japs bought 2% of their industry in the 80s, but when China is doing the same, they still deny it's even happening.

And if you seriously measuring "global power" in military might, then soon you will realise North Korea is a global superpower.

>>51072282
>high-end industrial process remains firmly outside its commercial reach
>2017
>There are people who still believe in that.
Which part of "it's no longer 2000" you didn't get the first time around?

Also, if you are going to use this graph, you need to also make it abudantly clear to everyone that you are an expert in the subject, with citations, data presentation and what not. Not just opinions.
Unless it's self-deprecation

>>51072282
>Country controlling industry on another continent, separated by half of globe, is no global
>Because I say so
Cool story, Meiguoren.

>>51072282
Are you using that picture ironically?

>>51045012
>being heartbroken when that chance tryst ends up being nothing more when you'd built it up in your mind as something grand
Do you want to talk about it, friend?

>>51071837
>China is not and has no intentions of becoming a global power
>>51072090
>China is a regional Power you retard
>>51072282
>Don't confuse low-end economic market caps with global power
>>51072282
>high-end industrial process remains firmly outside its commercial reach
This is some nice reality bending, /pol/

File: John_Henry-27527.jpg (490KB, 1200x1000px) Image search: [Google]

490KB, 1200x1000px

>>51044867
That's not how you spell John Henry

Statistically, every large city has an epic level commoner (according to the 3.5 DMG). So the mayor of New York, I guess.

>>51040633
Rather than hire adventurers to clear rats out his cellar, this inkeeper takes a more hands on approach.

File: image.jpg (36KB, 225x350px) Image search: [Google]

36KB, 225x350px

Kraft Lawrence for sure

>>51067258
>proceeds to assume I'm british
The picture was of Napoleon.