...Identity Spoofed ...Encryption Keys Generated ...Connecte

>>51005466
>* Running newfie_girls_gone_wild.BTL...

lord tunderin 'bye!

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Why does everyone seem to think that nonlethal is in any way important for avoiding megacorporate attention? Death is easy, cheap, and casual in Shadowrun. Bloodsports are the most popular programs on television, go gangers do thrill kills on commuters during rush hour, the police shoot people and leave their corpses in the street, and security guard deaths get written off as a minor business expense every time a lab experiment goes wrong or a shadowrun goes right.

If you murder a dozen security guards - or mafiosos, or go gangers, or even police officers - on you way to your objective, nobody's going to give a fuck. It's not even going to make the news.

Corps only care if you embarrass them, or kill unarmed civilians, or whatever.

I mean, don't get me wrong, they'll still try to shoot you while you're on-site. But once you escape, whether you were shooting APDS or SnS won't make one fucking trace of difference as far as literally anyone other than those poor dead fucks are concerned.

Shadowrun is a setting where utraviolence is normalized, death is a casual fact of life, and people only raise their eyebrows when it's unusually graphic or humiliating instead of clean.

>>51005466
>forgetting the subject
shamefur dispray

>>51005591
Because it stacks up.

>>51005591
>Why does everyone seem to think that nonlethal is in any way important for avoiding megacorporate attention?

Because corps have the means to track you down, omae, they just lack the motive. Don't give the Man a motive by killing 'the-guy-who-looks-like-but-for-some-reason-actually-isn't-Random-Joe'.

>>51004254
>Good food (which never happens at strip clubs)
Funny story: one time I was in Montreal with my dad who was attending a conference. After the conference we climbed into a taxi with 2 of his friends, one of whom was born and raised in Montreal, to go downtown for some beers. So first we hit up a craft brewery with some pretty strong beers and painfully mediocre flatbread pizza. We'd drunk ourselves into a nice place between "buzzed" and "wasted" when my dad's Anglo friend says "The Jays game is on, we need to go to a bar with a TV", so we head out to look for a bar with a TV. Now as it turns out, bars with TVs that are not dedicated sports bars are quite rare in Montreal, and the dedicated sports bars themselves aren't exactly common either. Sometime after I got knocked onto my ass by walking into a guidewire but before we gave up and called a taxi to drive us to a Bar du Sport, we spotted a strip club (there are a lot of those in Montreal). This prompted my dad's Quebecois friend to profess that as a young man his own father went to strip clubs just to watch baseball because the beer there was cheaper there than at all the sports bars.

Anyways, I like this idea of a strip club where the strippers aren't actually the main reason they go there, much to the chagrin of the strippers. Maybe I'm going about it the wrong way though. How does this sound:
>Cont

>>51005591
Because s kinda cares about their peers. Or at least wanna look like they cares. Because if they don't at least pretend, it would be a PR nightmare. And besides, every employee is an asset, a tool. Hiring a new ones is expensive (good staff costs money, we don't talking about pencil-pushers and office drones unless you buy those in bulk) and time consuming. Megas HATES when someone destroy their assets.

>>51006094
>bar was intended to be an escort bar that just happened to have some food and sports trid on the side
>cartel installed some huge ultra high definition tridscreens they acquired from a recent shakedown because hey, who's going to pay for the shitty stuff when you've already got the awesome stuff just lying around?
>cartel calls home to their mothers and grandmothers to get some recipes for the joint
>after a few months of running the place, the manager gets complaints from the girls that the customers aren't much paying attention to them
>he runs the numbers and it turns out that he's making more money off the guys looking to stuff their faces with genuine Aztlan food while watching the Seattle Screamer than the guys looking to get their dicks wet
>"Whelp, time for a rebrand."
>it's now a sports bar where all the waitresses dress in slutty sports jerseys
>there are always some whores hanging around, but they're more of a side deal now
>still plenty of drug deals going on in the bathrooms though

>>51005591
This is accurate, actually. The corps do not, in fact, given a fuck about whether or not you leave a trail of bodies in your wake. Neither do the cops, civilians, or anyone else.

What they actually care about is whether those bodies left in your wake were killed with nerve agents, or buried in the rubble of a valuable building you demolished, or half-eaten by the ghoul party member, or were unarmed civilians, or were killed in an extremely public and graphic fashion, or were people that you had no need to kill but went out of your way to anyway.

As long as you're just shooting/stabbing armed people to death in a relatively normal fashion, people as a whole aren't going to pay you much mind.

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>>50998772
>What are some good open ended runs to get the feel for people's characters?

Things with low stakes, where fucking up won't attract any heat that lasts more than a day, and whatever sort of idea they have or path they want to try is likely to succeed.

In that campaign, I shamelessly stole the PH34RM0NG3RS run from TwoDee, but recast it as, "You need to get these punks out of this neighbourhood one way or another," and then a very easy 'extraction' (helping a girl sneak away from a company picnic so she can get married to her beau and present her parents with a fait accompli).

The PH34RM0NG3RS were persuaded to move from Tacoma to Puyallup, with the party facilitating the move by doing some legwork on Puyallup gangs so the PH34RM0NG3RS could go take out one immediately and come in looking hard. The extraction was done by distracting everyone with a political flashmob that drew most of the rent-a-cops away (hey, public park in Seattle, you need somebody to persuade the local kids to stay away) and by using decking to spoof a call from the school of the security chief's kids on the way back in.

>>51005591
The more wageslaves you gun down, the higher the chances that one of them was actually going to subvert the sad cyberpunk trend, and had connections with one of the higher ups... and was slated for promotion just before you snuffed the life out of them.

>>51006159
>it's now a sports bar where all the waitresses dress in slutty sports jerseys
so basically hooters but with better food?

>>51006164
>>51005591
These are the canon attitudes. Shadowrun is a callous setting that doesn't give a fuck about death/murder, where sticking to nonlethal means nets you nothing PR-wise.

>>51005878
>>51005921
>>51006142
These are the attitudes promoted by GMs who - intentionally or not - made the setting more closely resemble the real world, where people would be shocked and horrified if ten security guards were found shot to death in a Silicon Valley research lab by the day shift on arrival. This is not the setting as-written, though.

As-written, corporations will shrug, adjust some numbers in a ledger, and tell the janitorial staff to get to work cleaning up that mess, unless there's some kind of unusual circumstances making it more urgent to deal with what happened directly.

>>51006223
Hooters with better food and it's all Mexican/Central American food. Also, it's honest with itself starting out as a place to pick up whores.

>>51006223
Wait, Hooters is a sports bar? I thought it was more "family restaurant for single dads".

On the note of running things for players, how do you get them to tone down the paranoia and excessive legwork for newbie characters?

Special shoutout to /srg/ itself for this, because a lot of players I've seen from here fall into the trap of spending way too much time combing over things and dragging the pacing of a run down.

>>51006293
Well, there is plenty of balls in Hooters.

>>51006303
>tone down the paranoia and excessive legwork
I'm sorry chummer, but I don't get it
each single word I understand but together they don't make sense

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>>51005710
Forgive me.

>>51006303
I've noticed the opposite problem in my group where our GM doesn't give us that much legwork to do.

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>>51006236
>A dynamic defense is more expensive. You have to train it, equip it, pay it, insure it, and so on. A security guard’s death can have surprisingly handsome payouts in death insurance for the grieving family, if the corp is honest (which happens, I swear!). And then it takes so much time to find another applicant, screen them, train them, arm them—the expenses stack exponentially over time. For all that runners like to make fun of corp sec, they represent a significant investment of nuyen and time, and given how many runners get their heads blown off fighting them, it’s clear the investment is much better than just static defenses.

From Howling Shadows. It's mentioned a few times there and elsewhere in sourcebooks that the expense of a guard is significant enough that if you have a reputation for blowing through a dozen guys every run it's going to cut down on job offers, just because the added expense on the part of the victim will be transferred to their inevitable retaliation. It may be nickels and dimes for the corp on the multinational scale, but for the local R&D facility that has to balance it's security budget it's a huge moneypit to keep getting new guards, which encourages attitudes like Zero Zones to kill the runners first.

Plus, as a runner, I like to be able to leave a bunch of unconscious friends that corpsec have to secure and take care of, rather than a bunch of shredded bodies that make them more angry, more scared, and more likely to start spraying bullets as soon as they see me.

>>51006339
Go think harder on it, then.

>>51006236
>This is not the setting as-written, though.

Please go actually read the books.

>>51006339
Imagine someone who wants to do legwork for Food Fight.

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>>51006303
A) Time limits. They don't have forever to do their work. They don't even have a work week in 90% of the cases. They need to go secure that prototype before it's shipped to Macao in 38 hours.

B) Flashbacks. Blades in the Dark has a great method for doing this, which is easily ported to SR. You spend Edge to set up something that happened in the past; one Edge for something that is easy and you had opportunity (the Face having chatted up someone in a bar and learned a bit about the layout of the offices from casual conversation, or the infiltrator leaving a bag with a couple tools behind during a previously-done legwork scene), more Edge for things which are difficult or require amazing coincidence (the head of security played on the same college combat bike team as the sammy, having called in a bunch of favours for your go-gang friends to come in and secure your exit). Use that to keep pushing them forward to the actual run, with the promise they can go back later to establish something if they have a good idea that requires set-up.

>>51006094
>Anyways, I like this idea of a strip club where the strippers aren't actually the main reason they go there

I'm adding a chain of these to the game I'm running Soon(tm). Best buffalo wings in the city they're in, guaranteed or your nuyen back.
Made from real winged buffalo, thanks to genetic experimentation!
Of course, it's also a kemonomimi-themed club, with bio-sculpted or SURGE-d staff. Even the bouncers wear kitty ears and have tails stuck onto the back of their cheap suits.

>>51006236
>>51006371

I know it's potentially a middle ground fallacy, but I think that a good way might be something in between grunts as the super protected assets and simple dungeon cannon fodder.

Having people die constantly would eiter sharply drive up wages or depress the pool of people you hire from - both things a corp doesn't like - They have to stay cheap and replacable. But: That is, what they are, cheap and replaceable.

So in my opinion getting a reputation for things like wholesale slaughter of a corp lab is bad - slaughtering a corp lab once in a while isn't that tragic, it's expected.

As always ymmv - we're all playing in different worlds, after all

>>51006484
>Made from real winged buffalo, thanks to genetic experimentation!
What a coincidence, I am also the anon who proposed that idea there two threads ago. Out of curiosity, are you going with "monstrosities with dozens of tiny chicken wings growing out from scattered spots on their sides" or "big wings; not big enough that they could actually fly, but big enough that they wouldn't die if you chased a bunch of them off a cliff"?

>>51006303
Time limits.

Barring that, put them on the defensive. Example: they're hired by Mr. Johson to protect someone/something until the 'McGuffin' arrives where it's expected.

>>50994740
>http://shadowrun.com/forums/discussion/comment/181431/#Comment_181431

I read it and reread it and can't get the puppeter vs spider.
It uses a mixed opposed+threshold test.
By RAW you are rolling Software + RES vs Firewall + WIL + Acton type.
So you need 2 net hits on an opposed test with fairly even pools to invite marks or 3 net hits to reboot or dataspike suicide. And you need to push the limit with Edge at level 1 to not blow your brains out with 10 FV. The success chance to roll 3 net hits against a spider seems abysmally low for the supposed emergency GTFO button.

>>51006529
Yeah, this. It's alright to kill the odd corp staff here and there, just don't make a fucking habit of it.

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>>51006529
But if you want 'cheap and replaceable' you can go install turrets, neuro-stun sprayers, and razorwire. If you want midrange,

>Which brings us back to critters. Where do they fall on the static-dynamic scale? Somewhere in the middle. Biological security assets represent tactical wildcards, dead zones, and compensatory measures. They fulfill physical, magical, and even digital security needs at a much lower cost to maintain.
>Consider this: A guard dog doesn’t ask for pay. He doesn’t understand reward beyond food, praise, and affection. He doesn’t question his loyalty. If he dies, no one is going to look for a payout. And there’s a whole kennel of other dogs like him to replace him, either cloned or more likely just bred. Training is relatively easy and definitely cheaper overall than a guard, and the dog can learn pack tactics, including working with those same guards. Hell, they can be all the more effective if you’re willing to outfit them with armor or other gizmos, or even cyber, if you’re a mean bastard with cash to spare.

>>51006303
>>51006471

Flashbacks are a great way to handle things like this in-game.

You might also want to talk to your players ooc and go meta.
If your players aren't sure they will not get punished (too harshly) for "going with the flow" instead of analyzing each and every detail, my guess is that they will stay that paranoid.

So tell them that you won't be the guy who says: Hah, it was lofwyr all along! You get eaten one by one, no burning edge allowed.

>>51006539
Oddly enough, I didn't get the idea from one of these threads. Directly, at least.
I'm going with 'big enough to fly with, and the bastard things will do so if you don't clip them'.

>>51006629
>If your players aren't sure they will not get punished (too harshly) for "going with the flow" instead of analyzing each and every detail, my guess is that they will stay that paranoid.
Correct!
Paranoia is a survival trait.

>>51006623
You're right, of course.
I should have said: Cheap, expendable and versatile.
A sec goon can cover a whole building, do patrols, investigate etc.

Turrets become prohibitely expensive if you have a big building or a warehouse with a lot.
Drones are unreliable if run on Pilot - and you can get at least 5 security goons for the price of a sub-par rigger/spider.

It's all about balancing these security concerns with a tight budget. Which in itself becomes expensive, so most non-essential corp areas aren't really that well guarded/secured (in my game world ofc).

Should my runners start blowing up everything, waltzing into A-Zone offices with assault cannons and blowing the 70year old security clerk two days away from his pension into bits?
Yeah, that tone shifts right quick.

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>>51006777
>implying the corps wouldn't support someone taking out employees about to become drains on the pension fund instead of productive cogs in the machine

Why aren't you Logan's Runners?

>>51006623
>If he dies, no one is going to look for a payout.
Eh. You're still going to get a few staff members who get a little upset at losing their four-legged friend, most likely trainers and guard staff. There's no cash payout, but there's still an emotional and morale cost. As I dog person I hope I have gel rounds handy if I ever find dogs in the enemy security, Awakened or not. Dogs are pure and loyal; not smart enough to fully comprehend good and evil, but wise enough to be good anyways. It seems so unfair that we drag them into the same bullshit we put ourselves through, even if they're happily following us into hell.God damn it, I am now actually crying real tears just from typing that out.

>>51006814
The corps would be all too glad to grind pensioners into fine dust, refine that dust with flavoring and some carbonated water and sell it as the new NERPS - but there's still public opinion to appease and control.

>>51006865
What if it's that one guy that everyone in the office hates? Do they let their standards slide for him, or is he merely the most frustrating person to leave on company pension?

>>51006777
You do know you've basically been quoting the Untamed Security chapter of Howling Shadows, the same thing I'm posting snips from?

And rigging a building with turrets is way cheaper than hiring enough guards to cover it, especially if you get the ones on rails. Metahuman guards/drones are more dynamic and flexible, but are way more expensive. That's why you put in layers of static and dynamic security to produce the most economical security.

No one is saying death can't happen during runs, but that there's a lot of good reasons, enshrined in canon, why you shouldn't be planning to kill every security guard you meet during a run, because their lives are not cheap (at least, not cheap enough that their wholesale slaughter will earn nothing more than an annoyed pencil-pusher updating his spreadsheet).

>>51006912
I don't know, I don't own that book and I'm a 4e pleb.

I agree completely with you - you just wrote up what I've been saying from the beginning.

I'm still of the opinion that runs do go bad occassionally and everyone, especially the corps know this.

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>>51006236
What this anon says.
But mirrorshades Cancer will never learn to Control their powertripping GM tendencies of "I WANT YOU TO BEHAVE LIKE I WANT!!!!!111".

>>51006236
>planning on full Donut genocide

Usually nobody is planning this or even doing it, especially with NPCS that have enough self preservation senses left in them to not fight the troll in security Armor toting a Minigun.

Not that it matters though.
There is a sort of kankerrunner going around in the /srg/s that goes to lenght with ridiculous bullshit on how "killing a random guard on a run" is bound to attract a whole lot more negativity compared to ruining multimillion businesses for said corp, just because REASONS (eg relatives paying detectives to GM-fiat snoop out Runners that hadn't been able to be found by the corp before).

>>51007060
>he can't even quote all the posts he wants to quote properly
Typical murder-maniac.

>>51007060
>(eg relatives paying detectives to GM-fiat snoop out Runners that hadn't been able to be found by the corp before).
Isn't that task handed out to other runners on occasion?

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Playing Armored Core for the first time. This seems like Shadowrun with mechs.

>>51007109
It happens, yes.

>>51007060
>just because REASONS (eg relatives paying detectives to GM-fiat snoop out Runners that hadn't been able to be found by the corp before)

The corps aren't motivated to find runners, at least once the job is done. The reason the Azzies have such a bad rap in the shadows is in large part because they hold a grudge against the runners who did the job, while everyone else understand they are just tools in the hands of the wealthy.

However, they have mentioned in canon about being trying to get vigilante justice on those dirty criminal shadowrunners; Wolverine Security, the loose cannons of Ares, are known to have officers who were wronged go get theirs off-duty (and someone with tactical gear, police training and a Jazz habit can really put a fly in your soup).

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>>51007175
>about being trying

Ghost save my grammar.

>about there being people trying

For a four-cyberlimbed street sam, it's better to boost agility first and leave strength for later, right? Or should I boost strength just a little bit before I ignore it for a while?

Which should I focus on first, arms or legs? I figure legs will be okay with customized 6 agility.

>>51005591
>Bloodsports are the most popular programs on television
This one, at least, isn't quite true - sports of the sixth world are violent, but they're intentionally non-lethal unless you go underground or into Aztlan.

>>51006164
>[no one gives] a fuck about whether or not you leave a trail of bodies in your wake
Beat patrols just about only care if you've killed someone. Everything before that is a crime that can be ignored until you're added to their monthly quota of killers removed from the streets.

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>>51007109
The Problem isn't really that the relatives are TRYING to get back to the runners.
Its the fucking ridiculous Notion that somebody with very Little financial ressources has the means to track down any halfway competent runner Team.
Idk, maybe if you go in guns blazing without any disguise after having bought the HMG with your national SIN ...
But usually, runners tend to be NOT that retarded, so finding out who did the deed is something you can Forget to do.
Except, if as i said, the GM is using excessive fiat to cut out logic.


So, provided you have two things present, removing Donut from the premises is no Problem:
-runners (and their Players) shouldn't be pants-on-head retarded
- The GM shouldn't value his shitty little agenda over a believable setting.

>>51007469
Please work on your English, for somebody whining about 'believability', I can't believe a word you say.

>>51007324
Theoretically non-lethal, though bloodsports don't have to involve death.
>At this time, events involving deliberate combat to the death are illegal in all North American countries except Aztlan. Urban Brawl comes closest to crossing the line, but wounded brawlers are treated immediately and removed from play when badly wounded, and the object of the game is to score goals, not kill opponents. It says so right in the rules.

As well, one of my favourite bits from Shadowbeat

>A team scores if a ball carrier gets the ball into the opposing team's goal. The ISSV rulebook used to restrict goals to "live" ball carriers, but after the 2044 season, when there were six disputed decisions over whether the carrier was still alive when he entered the goal circle, the ISSV changed the rule. As long as the ball is in the brawler's hands or somehow attached to his body when he gets into the goal, it doesn't matter if he's alive or dead. It also doesn't matter if he got there under his own power or was blown ten meters across the pavement by the opposition's Blaster and hit the goal area in two pieces, which happened in the Boston-Seattle game last year. One of the pieces was in contact with the ball, so the goal counted.

So non-lethal, but only technically. They still use live-ammo unless they're arena pussies, which is stated to be second-best in terms of revenue made and prestige to real street games.

>>51007309
Depends on what are you planning on doing.
I went for 4 STR in my arms because thats enough for an additional point or RC and I'm not a big fan of melee engagments.
Electrical Damages rules those anyways.

And of course you want to prioritze Arms.
6+3 Agility or 6+2 if you plan on getting Redliner at Chargen or later.

>>51007123

Which one are you playing? The setting is pretty Shadowrunny, yeah.

>>51007524
Guns, of course.

>Redliner
Hell yeah.

>>51007512
>durr

GM fiat faggot detected, nice to see you not having any sort of factual counterpoints.

Also:
>he doesn't know "remove X from premises"

Lurk a lot more

>>51007611
Moronic arrogant ESL scum detected, your arguments hold no weight here.

>>51007565
Armor yourself up to the max if you go for it.
I'm playing a four-limber with 30 soak and I'm pretty sure i should get some more armor in the limbs before grabbing that Quality.

>>51007630
>still not a single counterpoint provided

Q.E.D.
Its not your mommys Kitchentable here:
Going full Trigglypuff and ignoring Facts doesn't give you any upper Hand in discussions here.
But its okay.
You'll run from the discussion, like you always do, resorting to "NO U"s, then crawling back out of your whole 3 threads later, behaving like nothing happened.

>>51007693
*hole*

>>51007693
There's nothing to argue.

>>51007553
>Which one are you playing?
First one. Emulated. 2x internal resolution.

>>51007728
Finally accepting that no one gives a fuck about dead wageslaves in SR?
Took you long enough.

>>51007469
If a cash-strapped family has enough nuyen to convince a team of runners to rescue a missing child (and they do, it's a staple of feel good runs), then they have enough money for bloody revenge, especially if you went on a killing spree and multiple families are pitching in.

Kill if you must, but no more than that.

>>51006865
Morbo's executive powder.

Anyone else dislike the limits introduced in 5e?

I sort of liked the crazy amount of hits you could get.

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>>51008083
I like it specifically because it flattened out those ludicrous curves. Now you can't just minmax for dice and walk around with a pistol one-shotting everyone and everything (fucking adepts).

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>>51007822
Convincing some runners to do a low-payed feels-good run against some low-level child abducters isn't the same as convincing some runners to do a low-payed run to avenge some random dude, that involves going against professionals with the will and expertise to kill.

Besides, as said above, even IF some families pitch together to hire someone to find out who did this, provided the runners hadn't been stupid, there is no reasonable way they are getting found.
Except if the GM fiats his way through.
OR of they had been stupid on the run.
And if THATS the case, both the corp hiring them and the one being the target of the run are bound to be a much more serious and relevant problem for the group.

>>51008119
This

Limits are excellent, the only Problem is that they adding way to many shit to make some Limits a non-issue anyways (social and accuracy).
Especially the Custom Grip that gives +1ACC is such a stupid nobrainer, it should have never made it into the game.

How do you do anything melee-related in SR without killing people? There must be better options than being a non-cybered troll, settling for shitty 9S(e) stun weapons, or eating accuracy 3 to hit people with rifle-butts and chairs.

>but competent melee can't ever be non-lethal
So how does anyone justify gel rounds and SnS being as good as they are? How does a terracotta rifle shoot someone for 15S AP -3 and no attack or accuracy penalty?

>>51008299
>How do you do anything melee-related in SR without killing people?
Blunt objects?
Stun clubs?
Negotiate with your GM for a non-lethal weapon that uses your main melee skill?
Mine let me make a vibro-sword into a stun weapon, by adding the guts of a tazer club to it, and having it consume battery packs.

>>51008203
The one feel good run I've been on so far, which did center around getting a kid back to his wageslave parents, ended up pit us against a veteran runner and none of us blinked at it. We did our legwork on him, hunted him down and killed him. If we'd had to do in a whole team of runners, we'd have picked them off one by one. So I can say with full confidence that you're full of shit.

>>51008299
>settling for shitty 9S(e) stun weapons
What exactly is shitty about a 9(s) base damage weapon?

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>>51008381
No, the only thing you can say with full confidence is that you are some sort of idiot extrapolating his tiny Teeny one-time experience to a larger scale, sounding like a pretentious big-mouth retard, trying to bend the setting around his personal moral compas, disregarding logic on the way.

>>51008341
>melee weapon eating power clips to have respectable stun damage
I am okay with this. Maybe give it the same stats as SnS, -2S(e), replace AP with -5.

>>51008382
>What exactly is shitty about a 9(s) base damage weapon?
I don't have a whole lot of experience with SR, but it doesn't seem to me like it would be very good against a target that is armored or tanky. Metahumans have like 9 boxes minimum so even after net hits, it seems unlikely to oneshot someone wearing any kind of armor.

>>51008495
There are surprisingly few weapons that can oneshot someone wearing any kind of armor.

>>51008461
>trying to bend the setting around his personal moral compas
The very next session, the same character proceeded to straight up murder 30 Triad thugs because he and the rest of the party were curious about what was behind a locked door. Does that sounds like someone "bending the setting around his personal moral compass" to you?

>>51008495
>not much experience

Its showing.
Weapons damaging the mental boxes are far more effective at taking down big Targets than most others one, barring Shotguns/Snipers with APDS, are.

Besides, you can increase those 9S with net hits and called shots and as the anon above said, its generally farily difficult to oneshot Targets.
Which is a good thing in my opinion, makes the game far more interesting and fun, because things besides "max your INI" become relevant.

>>51005591

Treat the wageslaves like disposable bodies and you're thinking exactly like the corps are, chummer. The high-up CEOs, the management, the cold algorithms of economic efficiency, those all treat people like interchangeable warm (or cold) bodies.

Living down in the press, you should know better. Those are people, and they have friends, family, histories. Sure, popping the head off that security guard with a spell so he can't raise the alarm might be quick and safe for now, but who knows? Maybe he has a favourite cousin who's a mage. Maybe he reminded one of the corp execs of his dead son, and he was keeping an eye on him. Maybe he had former girlfriend who fell into the shadows and had to leave him, but still cares. That's the key - maybe someone cares. Which means maybe they'll care about the one who killed him.

You keep racking up that kill count, and maybe you'll need to more eyes to watch your back than you can get.

>>51008495
>melee weapon eating power clips to have respectable stun damage
>I am okay with this. Maybe give it the same stats as SnS, -2S(e), replace AP with -5.

I wish this was a real thing, so I could put melee hardening on my guns and go full gun kata on some corpsec, rather than switching to shock gloves.

t. strength 2 pistolero

So, I was told that, apparently, there's a way to make an 'attack' with a camera on a gun that would result as a 'lock on' type deal, in which the number of successes you get is a penalty to the other guys' dodge roll.

What are the details on that, or where can I find them myself?

>>51008623
Shock Gloves are a thing for people that aren't a troll or aug'ed up to their gills.

>>51008666
I know Satan, that's why my 8 Agi 2 Str gun adept is using a pair. I figure 5 RC built into his pistol will carry him for a while.

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>>51008540
Then why is he still alive?
Shouldn't those Triads have a caring Family (at least some of them) with a sizeable amount of disposable income to hire a runner Team to snuff out this horrific murderer?

>>51008665
Look up 'Sensor Targeting' in the core rulebook.

>>51008724

Thanks Omae.

So, it would still work if I apply a sensor to a gun too? is that the Jist of it?

>>51008592
If they're shooting real bullets at me, omae, they're gonna get some back.
Otherwise, you tried tellin' your street sam to hold back and not slice so deep next time? Doesn't work.

>>51008592
which might happen maybe once or twice as a plot hook, but to punish players with thte fist of revenge everytime they go lethal is illogical, against the setting and just a dick move.

>>51008716
We didn't leave any evidence that could connect the deed to us (nuked all the data and burned the whole place to the ground after blowing it up), and the only 2 witnesses surviving didn't get a good look at any of us. They don't know who killed their loved ones, and though they probably suspect it was some Shadowrunners, guess what? They have no idea that we killed their guys out of our own curiosity! They think that we killed on the orders of whoever hired us and are seeking revenge on them for this!

That said, when the run was over, our decker said "man, if we keep pissing them off we're going to have to wipe out this Triad before they get us" in a way that was joking yet completely serious. And lo and behold, now we're in the middle of pissing them off in Hong Kong of all places! First thing I'm going to do when we get back to Seattle is move out of my shitty apartment and try to get myself back into the David Cartel, and maybe get the rest of the crew into their good graces as well.

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>>51008977
>We didn't leave any evidence that could connect the deed to us (nuked all the data and burned the whole place to the ground after blowing it up), and the only 2 witnesses surviving didn't get a good look at any of us. They don't know who killed their loved ones, and though they probably suspect it was some Shadowrunners, guess what? They have no idea that we killed their guys out of our own curiosity!

M8, you are basically enforcing my Point from above.
"Don't be stupid on runs and its usually not a big deal if you kill people."

>>51009012
Do you blow up AND burn down every building you enter as part of a run? Because if not, you're not thorough enough with evidence disposal to get away with killing sprees all the time.

>>51009060
>Do you blow up AND burn down every building you enter as part of a run?

You mean you don't?
Hell, we don't even use the same Johnson twice. Soon as we get paid, we shoot them dead, or track them down and geek them.

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newDM here getting acquainted to 5e.

How big of an impact does essence loss play for someone wanting to play a cybered face?

Is it completely unviable now?

>>51009200
>shooting the Johnson unprovoked
Yeah, you don't actually play the game.

>>51009233
> the joke
> you

>>51009216

How cybered? If they just have a little bit of cyberwear, it's not a big deal, but if you're trying to run with less than 1 essence, it will be really difficult to keep your social limit high.

>>51009245
>joke
You know what I love about going out to play with real people face to face? They don't spout humorless bullshit and then hide behind the excuse of a "joke" when I call them out on it.

>>51009267
somewhere around 2 - 4 essence, would that work without hindering them much?

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>>51009060
There are plenty of other ways to get rid of evidence, eg by dispensing loads of fake genetic material (like dispensing the Contents of a huge trashbag full of haircutter waste on the Scene of the crime after you are done).

Also tons of C-squared (not the explosives).

t. the guy you actually had been talking to.

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>>51009267
bullshit, read the rules

>>51009338
reducing your essence to 0.01 will give you a whopping -2 to your social Limit.
Grabbing a good Suit and tailored pheromones Rating 3 will give you a +4 Bonus to your social Limit.

So no, even going almost-but-not-yet Cyberzombie doesn't have a relevant Impact on your social Limit if you constructed your Character right (that is, getting high Charisma).

>>51008341
Also sweep action w/ martial arts.

>Negotiate with your GM for a non-lethal weapon that uses your main melee skill?
There's rules in a sidebar somewhere for using any lethal melee weapon non-lethally.

>>51009425
Actually because the limits round up, if you have more than three essence of cyberware you'll lose one point of social limit. That's it. It can have other nasty effects but those are reflected by taking negative qualities like cyberpsychosis or superhuman psychosis.
This isn't cyberpunk 2020 the drawback to cyberware is that it dents your aura, not that it causes you to go mad, when it does it's just triggering incipient mental problems that were already there. People forget cyberware has been around for a long time in the shadowrun universe, they've gotten very good at making it.

>>51009620
do you remember where? because I was looking into this last week some time and didn't find a satisfactory answer. You can do the opposite easily, with a harder knock called shot, but turning P into S doesn't seem to be a option.

Yekka, that new-fangled addition - where you can swap the handedness of a character - is fucking Chummer up something fierce.

Test:
Make a character.
Change their handedness from right to left.
Save.
Restart.

>>51009749
Look in Run&Gun, the Action is called "Splitting the pain" or something like this.

All it does though, its Splitting the P into equal amounts of P and S damage.
Turning P meleeweapons Damage completely into S is not possible as of now.
You could use the pommel, but that would be not the same damage Code.

What's the actual downside to the vegetarianopolis in SR if you're playing a vegetarian? That it's not properly taken care of soy or something?

>>51009802
Dude.
>>51009749
Core 183.

>Sometimes all you have is a sword and you want to knock out your opponent and not kill them. In these circumstances your options are limited, as most lethal melee weapons are not designed for non-lethal attacks. When desired, the characters can use the Called Shot (p. 195) option to transfer damage types if the opponent is armored. If the opponent is unarmored, the attacking character can use the weapon in question as a club (with the Clubs skill) with an Accuracy of 3. Blades used as a club lose all Reach due to the need to hit with the pommel to be a club.

>>51009802
Also, the mention of it R&G is a reference to the core book Called Shot rules.

>>51009886
>Dude

Look up what is written on the referenced page 195, Dude.
Its the exact Option that i mentioned about, my only mistake being me thinking it would be in Run&Gun.

Turning P melee completely into S melee is not possible by raw, period.

>>51009885
>vegetarianopolis
???

>>51009993
Which reminds me; you can use a bladed weapon as a club (Core 423), but clubs are +3 Phys DV by default. Better to allow use as a rifle butt (R&G 22), which is +3 Stun DV. Same accuracy, less reach.

>>51010158
Most food is soy-based. For vegetarians, that IS their real food.

>>51010174
nono, that I understand
what I don't get is what vegetarianopolis is supposed to mean

>>51010197
It's just a phrase indicating it's a desirable thing for vegetarians. I don't know what's hard to get about it.

Does anyone ever play a left handed character anyway? They just seem less useful from a tactical standpoint.

>>51010222
>I don't know what's hard to get about it.
I have never, in my entire life, heard of that term

and no, vegetarians have no problem with that stuff
maybe lacking some real vegetables but otherwise not really disadvantaged

>>51010245
There is nothing wrong with being a lefty.

>>51009379
>There are plenty of other ways to get rid of evidence
Not particularly relevant, because they take forethought and preparation and sometimes you don't know when you're going to need to get rid of the evidence. I mean, our job that night was to go in, swipe a fancy new BTL and get out, no shots fired. We had no plans to turn the place into slaughterhouse (and then a charnel house), but our curiosity got the better of us and we got reckless like amateurs. Thankfully, we still managed to be professionals in execution and clean-up, and Mr Johnson didn't mind that we built a little body count. What's got me really worried that we're still running a little sloppy in Hong Kong (though given that we're out of our home turf and under a time constraint I don't think you can blame us), so now we're going to be identified for sure and since there's nothing to connect the dots back to Mr Johnson, they've got nobody to be mad at but us.

Which brings me to another point: it's not just you that get targeted if you go on a killing spree. If your target can connect the dots back to Mr Johnson, they might give him shit. Granted he knew he was going to get some shit, but if you don't keep the bodycount professionally low he'll get way more shit than he expected. Then he'll get pissy and give your Fixer, and oh boy, does that ever put your future employment in dire straits.

>>51010324
*give your Fixer shit

>>51010245
I don't think there's even any rules in place to represent playing a lefty. You just say 'hey my character's left handed' and go. Hell, since most firearms use caseless ammo, you don't even need to worry about which side the ejection port is on.

>>51010292
except you can't shake hands with normal people.

>>51007309
You need to Customize both from the very beginning, because that's part of the cyberlimb itself. You can't increase Customization after purchase.

If push comes to shove, both types of Enhancement can wait compared to Customizing them as high as possible.

>>51010468
Well I'll be damned... Thanks Omae, that could've fucked me hard.

>>51007324
Urban Brawl uses live ammunition and has actual rules for goals scored by corpses launched into the goal boxes while still holding the ball.

Shadowrun's sports are nonlethal in the way that hockey doesn't have fights.

>>51010446
Isn't there a biblical example of a lefty shaking hands with a guy, and using his leftiness to shank him at the same time?

>>51010292
>have to use specially converted guns to use them as effeciently
>can't write while driving

>>51008341
Blunt objects deal Physical damage - just look at the statline of a club, staff, or even sap. The only way to deal Stun in melee is with unaugmented fists, electricity, or Subduing combat.

>>51010671
>he's inserting his bias against lefties into SR
Fuck off.

>>51010722
I'm not biased, I'm saying they're tragically less effective.

>>51010734
What the fuck are you doing writing while driving anyways?

>>51008590
I actually hate how impossible it is to one-shot things, because it makes it impossible for stealth characters to pick off guards before they can signal an alarm.

>>51009216
Essence loss has a nearly zero impact on your Social Limit. You only lose 1 Social Limit for every 3 points of Essence lost. That's less than you get back from a good suit.

>>51010770
That's not the real problem, the real problem is not being able to use most firearms effectively.

>>51010861
Except for
>>51010431
>Hell, since most firearms use caseless ammo, you don't even need to worry about which side the ejection port is on.

>>51010897
Shotguns, bolt action rifles, assault cannons, vintage firearms.

>>51010324
>Not particularly relevant, because they take forethought and preparation

Yes, very relevant, because every fucking run outside of turbopinkmohawk herpiderp (and even then....) takes forehought and preparation.
So if you crunch your heads about how to get into this secured compound, grab who/what you need and make your exit to wherever you need to go, you can very well spend the few extra seconds it needs to remember that you should bring along some shit to cover your tracks.
Because leaving no evidence that is traceable back to you is something you should ALWAYS do, no matter if you go treehugger pacifist, full genocide, or something in between.


>If your target can connect the dots back to Mr Johnson

Ridiculous assumption for this discussion.

If you piss your target off enough to warant going after whomever hired you (and doing some shit like high level extractions is far more likely to do that, than simple murderrampages because thats a case where its REALLY interesting who ORDERED the run and not so much which expendable goons DID it.), your Johnsonn is in a position to reasonably enough expect something like this to happen and also to prepare accordingly.

And finding the Johnsonn in General is some highly unlikely shit anyways, considering he is the Person who has the least direct Connections to all that happened, with im being basically a Job broker.

>>51010960
So don't use those 4 categories of guns.

>>51010960
Except for some vintage guns, useless examples.
Shitton of guns are created for ambidexterous use nowadays already and that number isn't going to decrease with the prevalence of caseless ammo

Also:
>implying being a lefty means you are unable to shoot like a right-handed person

Idiot.

>>51011065
So you're limiting yourself for no reason. Left handed characters are less versatile.

>>51010960
SR5 424:
>Each weapon is chambered to take either old-fashioned cased ammunition or caseless ammo. Most firearms load caseless ammunition, with fewer and fewer models coming in variants able to handle cased ammunition.

RAI, unless otherwise noted, they load caseless ammo. From the core book:
>Shotguns
None of these specify that they load cased ammo, though the PJSS Model 55 might.
>Bolt-action rifles
The only one of these is the Remington 950, pretty bottom-of-the-barrel as far as snipers go.
>assualt cannons
Literally none of these specify they use cased ammo
>vintage firearms
You got me there.

>>51011107
Yeah, limiting myself to not using the shittier guns in the game, oh woe is me.

>>51011111

>51011111

I assume that modern cased guns in 2077 can eject to either side, if you're a handloading lefty.

>Use a sword
>Sword becomes blunt
>Hit someone with sword
Blades or Clubs?

My biggest weakpoint is vehicles and such. about half of my runners are very fond of their vehicles, and use them as part of their runs, such as gunning down assholes, or running them down.

I'm not against this in any way. In fact, I want to use this in a run for some genuine Car Combat.

The only problem is that I'm shitty at vehicles in general, and I wouldn't be able to create anything that would be able to compete with any of their vehicles.

How do I Combat Car?

>>51011241
What vehicles do your players have and how did they mod them?

>>51011215

Blades, but with a damage penalty because its now a shitty sword.

>>51011379

I know one is an Ares Roadmaster, I can't remember the other one.

And... Honestly, I'm not entirely sure. I'm just pretty sure the Roadmaster (the much more tricked out one) could survive being shot with an Anti-tank round.

>>51011404
Was the other one a bike? A sportscar? SUV?

>I'm just pretty sure the Roadmaster (the much more tricked out one) could survive being shot with an Anti-tank round.
But how is it for Speed, Handling and Acceleration?

>>51011215
>use a sword-shaped club
?????

Do infected powers have a training time to them?

I'm trying to get ready to DM a game but I'm really lacking for maps. Does anyon have global/regional maps of the sixth world or could point me to source books that do?

>>51011734
Sixth World Almanac.

>>51009774
What happens?

Last thread I had someone help me build a workable face/hacker combo.
Any chance you're still around to advise some skill/device purchases?

If I'm priority A with the full 450k nuyen is it wise to burn 2/3 of that on the most expensive cyber I can afford worth it? Are there any other "must have" purchases besides the deck and trodes?

In terms of skills, what's crucial? And what should I consider the minimum level for those crucial skills?

Sorry for all the questions, but any help's appreciated

Quick question: human experimentation is still super illegal and against human rights laws in SR, right? Also, where does draconic experimentation sit on that?

>>51011985
parameter not valid, crashes on startup

>>51012222
Update to the latest nightly, it's an issue with your character's mugshot.

>>51012216
>still super illegal and against human rights laws in SR, right?
technically yes
but what happens isn't "human experimentation"
it's "volunteers in a long term study", employees in a megacorp (because on their turf they can do whatever they fancy) or simply not known

>>51012249
oh, and alternatively "not citizens, so who cares?"

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So our GM just got Battle of Manhattan for christmas and we played our first session. We haven't played in a very long time and hat tons of fun. All is well.

Except for the fact that nobody knew that the book is for experienced runners. It's hilarious, everyone built his character for a standard campaign, we didn't communicate shit while creating them and now we're standing in the place with the tightest security on earth with an elvish face, an orc adept who hates orcs and another elf whom we know nothing about except that he has a reflex booster and claims to stem from spanish nobility. Our only weapons are two tasers and a fork because we didn't have the money to buy the clearences for our other stuff. Half of our edge is used up because our rating 4 fake sins couldn't withstand the security check at the airport.


Do we have any chances of pulling this through?

>>51012347

you have a face.

you have a chance.

>>51012347
Abort the Mission, retry with prime runners.

So, I want to make a character who is a specialized in Banishing spirits

>Banishing sucks, don't do it

This is for an NPC, not a PC, so it's not going to actually be punishing the party because I'm basically dead weight. I just want to know the different bonuses that I can use in order to be good at banishing, because all I can think about is Specializations, and banishing foci, one for each and every spirit, which is... obnoxious

>>51011215
Clubs, by RAW, but I'd let you use Skill Substitution for Blades at a -0 penalty.

>>51012689
Make them a Mystic Adept, so that you can point their Adept powers at tricking out Banishing.

Unless normal Adepts can take Banishing? I'm not sure about that.

>>51012770

No, they can't.

Actually, that'd be pretty neat. Go Mystic Adept, but not bother with any of the spells, just focus on the adept part.

Alright, thanks.

Any advice for resisting the drain, though? That's the real killer.

>>51012368
>>51012540
We'll just see how far we can get.

Can anyone who already played it give some advice on what would come in handy?

Can I take Improved Ability (skill) twice, and raise them both up to rating 6, so long as they're different skills, or am I not allowed to spend more than half my power points on 'improved ability (anything)'

>>51013498
Unless specified otherwise, you can only buy a given power once.

>>51013553

I'm sure I sound like a Dunce for this, but, Can I take qualities multiple times (Specifically: Negative quality: Spirit Bane)

>>51013553
I just checked this and it doesn't say you can take improved ability multiple time for different skills unlike other similar powers. What do you think /srg, Catalyst being incompetent fucks, or did they genuinely only want you to able to boost one skill this way ever?

>>51011181
There is exactly one gun that cannot be switched, and that's the Onotari Arms Equalizer.

hey /tg/ what are spears? Do they go under blades, since they're sharp? But they're not like knives or swords, but they aren't clubs or anything like that.

>>51013793
Same deal as with powers; if it's not specified otherwise, you can't do it.
>>51013948
Hard Targets has the Cougar Collapsible Spear which is under Blades.

>>51013948
>hey /tg/ what are spears?
Bayonets, except they're attached to sticks instead of guns.

>>51013930
Catalyst being incompetent fucks, as usual.

How do I do a classic necromancer? As in, I shove spirits of whatever into dead bodies and use them to attack my enemies.

>>51014033
>As in, I shove spirits of whatever into dead bodies and use them to attack my enemies.
Take a tradition that shoves spirits into objects or bodies.

>>51014070
Which are? Shaman or mages?

>>51014072
neither, both shamans and mages summon spirits into the material plane.
What you are searching for are possession traditions. The only two on my mind right now are voodoo and jewish kaballah, though the magic sourcebooks should contain the rest

>>51014121
So if I want to be a necromancer, I have to be black or jewish?

>>51014072

see

>>51014121

Honestly, Voodou is probably your best bet for wanting to be a real necromancer. but thats just my opinion.

>>51014152
It just means that these two are the only possession tradition I currently remember
As said: If you want to see more check your editions magic supplements

>>51014188
In 4e for example you have 4 choices
>Quabbalistic Tradition
>Traditional/Hedge Witches
>Voodoo
or
>creating a custom possession tradition

Also keep in mind: You can't actually summon the spirits of the dead, as in people who have died. In SR there is no afterlife, and any resemblance with humans is due to your perception of what these spirits should look like, not actual human souls

>>51014258
I'm doing 5e, are those still valid options? Hedge Witch seems closest to what I'm aiming for.

So question about cyber decks, they only go up to rating 6, does this mean for all hacking ever even at the highest level play you can't get more than 6 hits?

>>51014273
in 5e the relevant books are Street Grimoire and Shadow Spells. Check those for the available traditions.
And if it isn't in there you can just copy it from 4e

>>51005591
because it gives something to gms to fuck you over with.

Does anyone actually keep track of the expenses incurred to a corp on runs?
I feel like I should give my runners a real time readout on how much they cost, at least as an ooc thing.
>>51007123
Armored core is basically what got me to like shadowrun type things.

>>51014258
>In SR there is no afterlife,
Not so. It's only a mystery if there -is- an afterlife. It's not said one way or the other.

>>51014273
hedge with no longer exists in 5e, there's also psionic which is a possession tradition, and Egyptian in shadow spellls which is probably the closest you'll get thematically. Also there's Santeria in Hard targets, which also has some relevant rituals on creating zombies.

>>51014273
voodou is probably the best for it as they have access to guardian spirits can learn combat skills, allowing you to have AK wielding zombies.

I see something that says "Create Stacked Focus" in Chummer, and I can Ctrl+F some things that reference stacked foci in Street Grimoire, but no real info on what they are or how they work. What book are they in/What is the simple rundown?

>>51014562
>>51014589
Is there something closer to Hermetic magic that allows possession?

>>51014737
There's go open a damn book, mate.

>>51014793
I haven't bought them yet. I've been relying on a borrowed copy of core, and I can't find a list of the supplement traditions online.

>>51014825
Read the OP, follow the links, and stop living in SIN.

>>51014841
Thanks, going to look into Jewish Qabalism and see if I can easily refluff it into Hermetic Qabalism.

>>51014715
They don't exist in SR5, I just haven't bothered to remove/hide the functionality. tl;dr it's two foci in one. Like that stupid 'you can totally make a katana that's five foci by disassembling it into parts first' idea.

>>51014912
Why's the stupid? A katana's grip is a completely separate piece. You don't even have to unscrew anything. The weapon focus would be the blade and tang, with the grip being a separate object free to enchant - unless sliding off the grip would break the weapon focus, which is turbo-retarded.

>>51014911

You don't even strictly need to do much of a refluff:

> Casters who follow Qabbalism tend to cast spells using ancient Hebrew, and their research features complex formulae and diagrams, with numerology and astrology forming a significant part of their theories regarding the flow of mana. This method of explaining the Awakened universe is also part of the hermetic paradigm, although the hermetics use other sources of information as well.

You can be a hermetic spellcaster with a heavy qabbalistic influence. You don't have to strictly be a true believer, you just have to recognize the applicability of hebrew astrology and numerology to your goal of binding spirits into bodies. You are basically making flesh golems, after all. Why reinvent the wheel?

>>51015028
you mean other than putting all your really expensive foci in one easily steal-able package?

>>51015364
Yeah, aside from that. I'm talking rules, not functionality - functionally, any foci that can be rings/tattoos should be rings/tattoos.

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>>51015028
It's a ship of theseus problem that's always bugged me with foci.

Among other things, a focus only works for as long as it's in contact with your body. Perhaps I'm just bitter, but I've mostly seen people try to use this to justify the enchanting process being easier with each component because the weapon itself is more complex than the components that make it up.

Question: Could I make a melee-hardened firearm into a weapon focus? Obviously only applying to melee attacks with it.

>>51015537
>a focus only works for as long as it's in contact with your body
I thought it was that it only works when it's 'on your person,' having to do with your astral presence rather than direct physical contact. Like, it'll work if it's in your pocket, but not if it's in your friend's pocket.

>>51015561
Yes.

I think I'm misunderstanding something - if a character has a weapon in their cyberlimb (like a pistol or something), is it the relevant weapon stat+the limb's agility, or the regular agility score? The core book seems to imply it's the limb's value, but chummer seems to be doing the math off of the character's regular agility stat.

>>51015617
I'm pretty sure you use the lowest value of all relevant limbs for whatever task. So, for example:

Attacknig with a cyberarm uses only that arm's stats.
Attacking with a two-handed weapon uses the lower of both arms' stats.
Movement uses the lower of both legs' stats.
Lifting/Carrying is kind of tough, since a couple 8 strength cyberarms won't do much for your 2 strength spine.

>>51015617
The limb's Agility. Chummer's often wrong about things. In this case, Chummer always only uses your average Agility score for all dice pools. It never uses just specific limbs.

>>51015640
No, you use the average value of all relevant limbs. So, full-body tasks use your full bodily average, shooting a rifle uses the average of your two arms, and stabbing someone with a cyberspur uses just the relevant arm.

Not the lowest, the average - and rounded up, at that.

>>51015656
Oh, so that's why I've got a (4) next to the 3 on the character sheet, it's the average compared to the cyberlimbs, thanks.

>>51014737
If you're intent on being a hermetic necromancer, look up the ritual Corps Cadavre on page 129 of hard targets, it's voodou flavoured, but I see no reason you couldn't adapt it to hermetic use.

>>51015617
The problem is that Chummer currently doesn't know about how many limbs a gun uses. I'll need to fix that up at some point.

>>51013930
The 5th edition core book is a train-wreck.

>>51013948
Spears are blades. "Pole Arm" is literally a spear. As a rule, blades cover both pointy and slashy.

>>51015868
Is there anything in 5e that isn't?

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In general, does one have to be cybered up/Awakened to not suck in SR? It seems like there is a very hard, very low-hanging ceiling for mundanes who seek to keep the chrome out of their bodies.

>>51016026
In combat? Drugs, Augs, or Magic. Outside of combat you can do *some* cool stuff without them, but combat is big leagues; you either go big, go home, or suppressing fire from the sidelines.

>>51016012
>Is there anything in Shadowrun that isn't?
FTFY.

Love the setting and the fun you can have with it, but you have to admit the system has never been better than sub par.

>>51016257
I can't argue that, at least I find 4e & 5e tolerable, 3rd & 2nd even the core mechanics were pants on head retarded.

maybe y'all can help me out, I'm about to start running a shadowrun game solo for a friend of mine. and i could use some examples, or a PDF of some missions someone could use.

I've run solo sessions plenty of times before but never using shadowrun .

Would it be unbalanced if I switched the Psionic Tradition's casting stat from INT to LOG? I think it makes more sense if I am going to be crushing my enemies with the power of the mind.

>>51016466
Check the pastebin in the OP.

>>51016466
>Solo
good luck
Stuffer Shack or Food Fight are good places to start, but IDK how well they'll work with a single PC

>>51016605
honestly, i learned to give them one or two NPC companions that either work alongside or behind the scenes to help things go smoother.

Can you take omegaware with prototype transhuman, to represent badly functioning prototype organs?

>>51014276
No they don't, but yes it does limit your hits like that.

Use Edge if you need more

>>51016931
Omegaware is specifically from the cybrware section of Chromeflesh and specifically name checks cyberware. That said, Omegaware is pretty much conditional on GM permission anyway as they have to approve the drawbacks, you may as well ask.

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http://pastebin.com/RN1XzhhM

>Improved Reflexes
>Melee and Ranged option
>Base combat skill is 12+

Am I missing anything?

>>51017071
>5'10" female human
>specialty in physical intimidation
wat

>>51017071
is that a naruto headband? on her torso?

>>51017142
Being tall isn't the only way to physically intimidate people

>>51017071
If you want to be a real street sam, boost that initiative. Drugs CAN be your friend.
>>51017142
Physical intimidation is intimidating through muscle mass, height and other physical features, hence the name. If the character is hyperstrong, I think it would be fitting.

>>51017071
I take it this is your first character?

>>51017142
>STR 6
>BOD 5
>composure 9
>carrying a highland forge claymore
>18 dice in swords

This woman is tougher than you in every sense, is wielding a massive sword that could cut a horse in half, and she clearly knows exactly how to use it.

Her artist forgot to fully erase her right leg before drawing her skirt, so I guess that could be considered a point against her.

>>51017071
As I understand it the most ranks of improved ability you can have is 3 as the 1.5 limit in the text includes the normal skill ranks. of course that just frees up points to bump your improved reflexes to 2 or pick up rapid draw and that last level of mystic armour.

>>51017256
Isn't Mystic Armor not all that great, though?

>>51017278
Mystic Armour is grossly overcosted, yes.

>>51017225
>Physical intimidation is intimidating through muscle mass, height and other physical features, hence the name. If the character is hyperstrong, I think it would be fitting.
No. Those give a +1 to +3 bonus to intimidation.

>Character is physically imposing +1 to +3
>Characters outnumber the subject(s) +2
>Character wielding weapon or obvious magic +2
>Character is causing (or has caused) subject physical pain (torture) +2

>>51017278
It's proportionally worse than it was in 4e, but six extra armour is nothing to be sneezed at. That's basically a riot shield you don't have to take a limit penalty or occupy a hand for. Their might be better uses for the power points but in the context of the build in question, I can see the point of taking it.

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>>51017225
>If you want to be a real street sam, boost that initiative.

Every time. How fast must I go before your speed lusts are satisfied? Improved Reflexes is so goddamn expensive.

>>51017256
With a Rating 6 in Blades can't I put up to Raiting 6 Improved Ability (since my Magic stat is the cap for Adept powers)?

>>51017278
>>51017295
I'll take your word for it, but why is it not good? There aren't much options for armor stacking and this sword is probably gonna need two hands (is there actually a ruling for one/two-handed weapons or is it just based on common sense and GM rulings?)

>>51017245
Not my first, no, but I tend to ignore optimization in favor of thematics whenever I make characters.

>>51017340
Yeah, but she's wearing chainmail, is my point. I can understand the need for a melee character to have good armor, of course, but shouldn't you start with buying actually worthwhile armor before you start spending magic points on it? I mean, the character in question doesn't even have two guaranteed initiative passes or combat sense. The mystic armor investment could be used elsewhere.

>>51017377
If you aren't doing everything in your power to go fast, it's not fast enough. Consider some Jazz if you don't want to take the adept power.

>>51017377
Two guaranteed initiative passes is basically mandatory for a combat character. You need just two more points of initiative to attain that.
More is better, of course.

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>>51017429

>>51017377
>I'll take your word for it, but why is it not good?

Because 0,5 PP per Armor point is an absolutely terrible ratio. Sacrifice one point of essence and magic to get some 'ware, you'll end up with the same armor, an extra gimmick (like a smuggling compartment) or two and more magical powers.

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>>51017377
>Every time. How fast must I go before your speed lusts are satisfied? Improved Reflexes is so goddamn expensive.
Every IP you get means another attack, and the higher your initiative, the more mooks you get to act before. It not only means more mooks dead faster, but more dead before they can cause you problems. It's very much essential to a sammy's job, so I guess the answer is "gotta go fast."

>why is mystic armor not good
It's just overpriced. It costs PP that could be spent on improved reflexes and combat reflexes. Though with 5 body and a good dodge pool you should be okay in armor jacket + helmet. Also >>51017481.

If you have nanoware, how easy is it to get CFD? I'm not going to automatically get it just for having some sick implants, right?

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Is being SINless actually illegal or just socially disparaged?

>>51017668
If you don't have a SIN you're not a person.

>>51017668
little bit of both. at the least, most dignified settings won't let you in without a SIN, and in some public places it is even illegal to enter without a SIN.

>>51017668
A SINless person doesn't legally exist, cannot meaningfully interact with civil society, and is often subject to human rights abuses because they have no recourse. Powerful people do whatever they damn want with the SINless.

If the authorities even bother to formally put a SINless through a criminal justice system, they give him a criminal SIN, which is almost worst than being SINless.

Phelps

>>51017668
SINnning is what makes it certain that the UCAS is Canadian, and not, as the treasonous Canadians claim, ignored.

After all, Canadians are born unto SIN.

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http://pastebin.com/VxVsr9M5
Rate/Hate

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>>51017850
Cute/10

Needs more initiative passes though

>>51017850
Your initiative isn't high enough. It clearly must be improved.

When and where would be a good time for an Omega Dawn (terrorist group who hate shadowrunners in general) attack, mid-run, immediately afterwards or a while afterwards? I'm thinking of having a mission go really easily and then rapidly go south as an unexpected third party goes after the characters.

>>51017850
A cat without Reaction 5 and the Lightning Reflexes quality? I don't believe it. Correct that sheet.

Where do I buy normal sunglasses? I refuse to believe sunglasses good enough to compensate for albinism cost 700 nuyen.

>>51017952
The moment they're in the getaway vehicle, huddled together and think they're in the clear. And then you hit them, HARD from straight outta left field.

>>51017972
Sounds good.

So, basically disable the car somehow with a hacker or an engineered roadblock and then have the rest of the OD squad light them up with automatic weapons fire? Alternatively I guess I could shoot an RPG at it, their van is probably durable enough to tank the hit without killing them (it'd still be fucked tho)

Why do things like digigrade legs and skimmers call for sides to be installed on instead of just being plain plugins?

>>51017952
Truth to be told, only when you want to TPK your players. Because that's what Omega Dawn would do: get into position and hit them with everything they've got. (And they've got a lot.)

A better way to use an Omega Dawn cell is to have them take out allied/rival gunner groups and get the players to track them down before they get taken out.

>>51017736
>A SINless person doesn't legally exist
>>51017677
>If you don't have a SIN you're not a person
Not quite. You're a "probationary citizen".

>Powerful people do whatever they damn want with the SINless
Any position of power is regularly abused in Shadowrun.

>The Riot Guard is intended for law enforcement and independent security forces engaged in operations against low- and medium-threat subjects.

>Low threats are generally considered things like a group of SINless begging for food, or an angry parent yelling at a corporate-sponsored instructor.

Yes, you can be shot for raising your voice at your child's corporate teacher.

>>51018080
That teacher is doing his job making a productive citizen out of your misbegotten spawn, creep!

>>51018109
> !

> *BLAM*

Do I need a gun that much as a mage? I've got 14 drain resist die, so I should be fine blasting away, right? I know about geek the mage, but wouldn't it be easier to just carry a fake gun and manabolt gangers while making gun noises out of a speaker?

>>51018125
Eschew the gun. Wear flowing robes and weird-ass tattoos. Get shot in the face by anybody smart enough to geek the mage first.

>>51006865
>new NERPS
>new new exciting retail product
Jesus it's like atm machines all over again.

>>51018149
Nonono, I mean pretend to NOT be a mage, hence the fake gun and gun noises. I'll look like a normal guy, and my obvious ass cyber will also make it seem like I'm not a mage.

>>51018125
You need to carry one.What you want is blending in and not making clear you are even more of a priority target than "Ole Paineless" the Street Sam over there. He can take a couple of (mundane) hits before slowing down, you cannot. But you don't need to be a crack shot with the gun.

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>>51018170
Buy the goddamn gun, Shinji.

>>51018170
>>51018125
related:
How do I make my troll street sam look more mage-like?
I mean, I'm sticking a wizard hat on him, that's a no brainer. But what else?

>>51018194
Weird glowing tattoos, carrying a huge book for no good reason, wizard robe/hat/staff, mumbling to yourself in a weird language...

Clichés, sure, but it works.

>>51018177
Even if I only have 4 dice?
>>51018194
Twitchy fingers, big plastic gemstones.

>>51018218
>>51018232
Can I disguise a gun as the book and grenades as gemstones?

>>51009886
>Blades used as a club lose all Reach due to the need to hit with the pommel to be a club.
Just wear armored gloves and grab your sword by the sharp end.

Hey Yekka, if you're here, Control emotions is listed as LOS(A), when it should be only LOS.

>>51018232
>Even if I only have 4 dice?
Even if you have zero you should be carrying a Predator or AK-97, just so your harder to pick out as a mage. Any half decent HTR will blast the unarmed guy first, on the assuming they are a mage and thus the biggest threat.

>>51010861
As far as I know the only case only weapon in SR is one of the revolvers, and I don't think there'll be issues with hot brass there.

>>51018282
What about a super Warhawk? It seems to be much cheaper while still looking threatening.

>>51018312
Literally anything that isn't a fake gun or a super soaker. Buy a holdout for all it matters.

>>51017668
I always assumed it was like being stateless IRL. It's not illegal, but it'll suck. You can't do many of the basic things you need in order to function in society.

>>51017952
>Omega Dawn
I love their name, what book can I read more about them in?

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>>51018403

What would a psychic use as reagents/foci? I assume they wouldn't just use brain parts, but I can't think of anything else for power coming from the mind.

>>51018462
Crystals and gem stones

>>51018040
To be honest i was thinking more along the lines of "armored truck, driven full speed into the side of their vehicle, and then flashbangs and automatic weapons fire."

>>51018550
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=409IGgu-Utw

>>51018756
Yes. Also, gonna go watch that movie now.

Hopefully simple rules question, I couldn't find anything in core. Burst fire ranged weapon, multiple attack, split hits from skill+att+mods vs rea+int-5, but what happens with damage? Also split? Listed weapon damage per goon? Per round? How about if they burst a single goon?

>>51019519
Okay, scenario time

Say you want to split the dice pool and multiple attack with a semi-auto pistol. For the sake of this scenario, we're making up the stats.

You split your dice pool evenly, and you decide to do two people. You have 18 dice pool normally, so you split it down to 9.

You roll 9 dice at two different mooks, because you can't target the same person.

You average three hits both times, and let's say they average 2 hits, leaving you with 1 net hit per mook.

Your gun has a DV of 7, so each mook needs to roll to absorb 8 DV, because of your net hit on each one.


HOWEVER, if one got two hits, and the ohter only one. That would mean one takes 8DV and the other 9 DV, because the one with the lower hits got you another net hit

>>51019661
Thank you! That clears it up perfectly, I appreciate it

>>51019712
Just keep in mind that you suffer Recoil from the bullets of the second attack

>>51019742
First attack I mean

>>51017377
>Every time. How fast must I go before your speed lusts are satisfied? Improved Reflexes is so goddamn expensive.
As fast as possible. Initiative affects how many actions per turn you get. Getting to attack a third or fourth time is better than basically any other bonus you could be getting for those PPs, as far as being a combat character is concerned.

>>51019519
>>51019712
Don't forget to read the core actions from 165-167. They tell you how you split attacks for multiple attack actions, per action type.

>>51018125
>Do I need a gun that much as a mage? I've got 14 drain resist die, so I should be fine blasting away, right?
A gun does way, WAY more damage than your manabolt, and has a 0% chance of causing you Stun damage from using it.

There are exactly three scenarios when you should be using attack spells in combat:
>When dealing with a target that has so much armor that conventional firearms stop being effective at disabling him.
>When dealing with a target that's astral or otherwise immune to mundane weaponry.
>When trying to blast an entire group of people with an Indirect AoE spell because grenades have way too wide of an explosive radius to be reliably used indoors.

Aside from those situations, use guns - or, if you still want to be wizardy, start lifting until your Strength is maxed and use a magic sword.

>>51018462
>What would a psychic use as reagents/foci?
Crystals, tuning forks, hypnotic objects, tattoos...

A person's magic tradition comes from their best understanding of what magic is, right? Like, the things they think of when they hear about magic? I'm wondering, if you had someone who was really into them and not exposed to much else, could you get a mage whose "tradition" was based on fantasy or tv shows or tabletop games?

Like I'm imagining some kid whose only entertainment was watching old Yugioh episodes, and then he Awakened and now he runs around summoning spirit monsters, shouting at people that they activated his trap card and buying up rare cards as his reagents.

>>51020155
It's based on their belief/faith in the supernatural. What they believe to be factually true about the mystical world.

That's why most of the magical traditions are real-world religious faiths.

But yes, you could have a shitty fantasy mage, assuming that the person in question genuinely believes that's actually the way that real, 'true' magic works.

Following that train of logic, the two main 'schools' of fiction-wizards that I'd expect to see would be Charisma-based Disney-style friendship-and-true-love sorcerers, and Intuition-based D&D/fantasy game fireball-slinging greybeards.

I don't think that any Logic-based tradition could be based on such a faulty understanding of the underlying mechanics of magic without invariably just reverting to Hermeticism as they get educated.

>>51020281
>and Intuition-based D&D/fantasy game
The main casting stat in DnD is intelligence

>>51018125

Here's the thing: Guns really aren't that expensive to begin with. Your commlink probably has an app that you can use to sync gunshot sounds to something you do, so you can maintain this 'fake appearance of shooting people' that you're wanting, with the bonus of actually having a gun.

Having a gun is extremely valuable in situations even when you're not good at it. Kinda like knives. you don't have to be good at knives to have one on your person to cut your buddy's plastic restraints, or some drek like that.

>>51020290
>The main casting stat in DnD is intelligence
Which has literally no bearing on people who are just nerds with a fundamental misunderstanding of how magic works.

They'd be Intuition-based, because they're not D&D wizards, they're people who believe in D&D wizards. They work off of assumptions, beliefs, and hunches, not actual study or understanding of the mechanics of magic.

They might even try to come off as wizardly smarty-farts, but at the end of the day their Drain would be resisting with Intuition, because their magic works more off of gut feelings and assumptions than reasoned, educated thought.

>>51020324
Just off the top of my head, intimidating someone into not resisting and shooting blindly down a hallway to deter people from following you are both good uses for a gun which, really, have nothing to do with actually shooting someone.

>>51020331
>Which has literally no bearing on people who are just nerds with a fundamental misunderstanding of how magic works.
If they believe, like in DnD, you need to be smart to cast magic, yes it would

>>51020350

I think he means that, while in DnD a wizard has to figure out and memorize an arcane formula, as well as which reagents magically work WITH that formula, the people PLAYING DnD don't do any of that, and just know that you have to use up some bat shit to throw a fireball at people.

>>51020338
These are perfect examples, especially because, with intimidating someone, if you got a fake gun, they get a free perception roll to try to notice the gun is a prop

And if one is REALLY against actually shooting people, get a real gun with no bullets. there is NO reason to carry a legitimately fake gun.

>>51020376
>I think he means that, while in DnD a wizard has to figure out and memorize an arcane formula, as well as which reagents magically work WITH that formula, the people PLAYING DnD don't do any of that, and just know that you have to use up some bat shit to throw a fireball at people.
This. Trying to be a D&D wizard will turn you into a Hermetic Mage in the end, so any D&D based tradition would ultimately be based off the WIS casters, the CHA casters or both.

>>51020392
>>51020376 (me)

That being said, I think it could be pretty funny if you had a character who worked like that. Like, it would be REALLY easy to make the character shitty, but I think it could be funny if he did get suckered into it really hard as a kid, and now is humiliated when any other mage (especially hermetic mages) asks what kind of tradition he uses

>>51020392
>This. Trying to be a D&D wizard will turn you into a Hermetic Mage in the end, so any D&D based tradition would ultimately be based off the WIS casters, the CHA casters or both.
If you're just trying to act the way you perceive a D&D wizard to be - being mysterious, carrying around scribbly books as magical foci, and so forth - that's an Intuition tradition. What attribute the thing you're imitating is based on has no bearing on the situation.

You're not actually a D&D wizard, you're someone who's acting like their mental image of a D&D wizard.

The same way that someone whose magical tradition is based around 'mad science,' but instead of actually studying science they just make ray guns out of glass bottles and art supplies isn't going to be a Logic-based scientific magical tradition, they're going to be an Intuition-based tradition based on what they perceive to be 'sciency.'

Someone who takes an actual logical approach to magic, however, would inevitably slide right out of whatever nonsense they'd originally based their assumptions on and - based on cultural momentum - probably fall right into Hermeticism, since that's the tradition that takes the most scientific approach to magic, complete with having full university programs.

>>51020422
Meh. Even a cursory glance at the class in the PHB will tell you that wizards spend years if not decades studying magic before reaching level 1, so I could only see the most casual of scrubs not becoming Hermetic Mages in the end.

>>51020543
They'd all be lazy neckbeards too dumb to go get an actual education, instead working off of their 'logical assumptions,' yes.

>>51020543

It comes down to 2 things:

If they actually try to do wizardly like in the canon of the game they play, they end up as Hermetic Mages.

If they try to do magic like the mechanics of the game, they'll end up INT based

>>51010222
I don't think you know what the -opolis suffix means.

So... I have a spirit barrier/zapper question.

1: Why does it have more drain than normal Mana Barrier? I thought shadowrun went with the logic that the more specific a spell, the less draining it is (See: Death touch, mana bolt, Mana ball having F-6/F-3/F, Vs. One less, slay, and slaughter metatypes being F-6/F-4/F-1).

A mana barrier can already block spirits, and can block many other things too, and has a drain of F-2.

Spirit barrier has a drain of F-1, already having more drain than the basic mana barrier for doing effectively less, and Spirit Zapper has a whopping drain of F+1.

Also, the description doesn't actually list a difference between what Spirit barrier and zapper does, just stating:

>This is modified version of the Mana Barrier spell (p. 294,SR5) designed to work again spirits and spirit powers. When cast on the physical plane, Spirit Zapper impedes materialized spirits. It has no effect on spells, foci, or non-spirit dual beings and astral forms.

Now, above this, there is the Bug zapper that states that it will cause damage equal to the force to any insect spirit that touches it. And if that's the case with Spirit zapper, that's cool, but I have one other problem:


Also, one thing that bugs me: Mana barrier (And all these barriers): Are they really only single-natured? As in, if you've got yourself a Spirit Zapper cast on an area in the physical plane, a Spirit could just de-manifest, move past the barrier, and re manifest? That kinda heavily weakens the effectiveness of this spell by a lot, even worse so given its high drain code.

Or am I missing something huge?

>>51010496
You might be thinking about Ehud, who stabbed the king Eglon in a sneaky fashion while greeting him. Judges 3.

>>51020916
I think the RAI is that Spirit Zapper would zap any materialized Spirits who pass through the barrier.

I also agree, looking at the inconsistencies between these different specialized barriers is confusing/stupid.

Mana Barrier prevents any Spirit from passing through, because Spirits are on the astral at all times. I think the RAI is saying that Spirit Barrier and Spirit Zapper are Mana Barriers that only work on Materialized Spirits. The intention being that you can fling spells through your Spirit Zapper and the Spirit has to get around it, which they can do by rematerializing. At least you have time to prepare for the angry Nuclear Spirit engulfing you.

>>51021622

cant you already fling spells through your own mana barrier?

I dunno, IMO, I think it should be a dual natured barrier that only affects spirits, have a weaker drain code, and have spirit zapper have more drain, but do the bonus damage that Bug Zapper does.

Like, fuck, Spirit barrier F-3, Spirit Zapper F-1, but only spirits can not pass through this barrier, either materialized or astral. If its a spirit zapper, any spirit that tries to pass through/touch the spirit zapper takes [force] physical damage (I want to say unresisted because otherwise i'm pretty sure most spirits won't give a fuck anyways). It otherwise functions as a Mana barrier.

Also drop bug zapper from being F+1 as well, because jesus christ that's an obnoxious drain code from such a situational spell.

>>51009306
You know what I like about playing with people face to face?
I can vet the ones who don't have a sense of humour.

>>51009885
>What's the actual downside to the vegetarianopolis in SR if you're playing a vegetarian?

That you don't get to be an elitist prick about not eating meat, because it's not a rarity.
That's literally the only problem I can see.

>>51010722
>>can't write while driving
They have an advantage in that if you're playing in a left-driving country.

>>51012540
No, I say continue with the fuckup. You didn't read the module first, you fucked yourselves over, now it's your duty as fa/tg/uys to see it through to the bitter end.
If only for the greentext.
Do it for the greentext.

>>51018125
Bring a machine pistol at the very least, so you can lay down suppressing fire. Maybe a holdout so you can hide it.
Literally need one skillpoint to be not utter shit with guns.

Could you build a character around using bow and arrows without coming off as a pretentious fucking faggot and/or green arrow/hawkeye wannabe?

And could you actually make an effective build? I'm imagining some sort of zen archery thing, or maybe something based around making enchanted arrows. Probably stealth focused in any case since that's the main advantage bows have over guns? They might also be more useful against something with magical healing on hand since you need to go to the trouble of yanking the arrow out first.

>>51022362

Allergy to gunpowder. They don't use guns because it always makes them break into hives and gag.

>>51022362
>Could you build a character around using bow and arrows without coming off as a pretentious fucking faggot and/or green arrow/hawkeye wannabe?
Play a troll, they make the best archers anyway.

>>51022649
tfw no rating 14 bows.

>>51016488
If you were logical, you wouldn't be so pants-on-head retarded to think that's what you were actually doing.

>>51018282
>0 dice
>toting around an assault rifle

So you want to give Johnny Corpsec a free AK for Christmas?

New thread
>>51023302