Convincing players go go old school

>>50935348
I'm terrified of the terrible xp rules... i jsut dont like the idea of getting like 10xp for killing a monster that could wipe the entire party

>>50935348
Just run them through one quick adventure and see what they think. If they can't try something for just one night then they're a bunch of babies.

>>50935393
Something that could wipe an entire party would give much more then 10xp. I actually prefer monsters giving lower xp because then you are less likely to have psychotic murder-hobos that need to kill everything they encounter.

>>50935348
Ask them to give it a shot with a quick adventure like >>50935466 says. They might like it if they can see how it is in action.

>>50935393
You're encouraged to find a way around the monster instead of fighting it directly then loot its shit to get way more XP than what tackling it head on would net you.

>>50935482
>>50935348

OH YOU GET XP FROM LOOT?


Fuck that sounds nice. I'd totally love to play an illusionist wizard then in 2e.

>>50935532
You get xp on a 1:1 gold to xp ratio.

>>50935532
>>50935555
Yeah, you get more XP from loot than anything else. Some GMs do away with XP altogether and just base your advancement off of the loot you acquire, something that focuses the urge to pillage from slaughter to material gain (as it should be if you're going down the chaotic route).

One GM I had who did the "Gold is XP" thing, had us spend gold for XP to represent training, which interacted interestingly with our stronghold at higher levels. It was something my XP-hungry elf greatly appreciated.

>>50935348
>>50935532
>>50935761
Old dnd is retarded. No feats or skills and your riding the gms dick the whole game in order to find anything unless the wizard has the right spell. Oh gee, I never thought to turn the moose head to find the secret treasure room! How stupid am I, Mr. Dungeon Master?

>>50935833
A shit DM will make a shit game no matter the edition.

>>50935833
Show me on this doll where the game touched you, anon.

>>50935833
Very stupid, but I will allow you to continue playing. Up ahead you see a magical realm! Do you dare enter?

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>>50935884
forgot pic

>>50935893
W-what does it look like?

>>50935393
>"terrible xp rules"
>teaching players that violence should be a last resort is wrong.

>>50935833
Spicy.

>>50936138
I don't think he knew at the time there were other ways to get xp aside from monsters.

>>50936138
This. Jumping straight to violence in all situations leads to a messy death.

>>50936176
Well, >>50935393 probably didn't anything related to dming (not that I blame him) and assumed the monster listings were the end-all-be-all to xp/lvling. Not an unfair assumption assuming his only prior experience was with typical 3e and beyond, but also shows that he never gave the game a fair shake.

So is there some equivalent of being a powergaming munchkin in pre-AD&D systems? I looked up the book OP mentioned and it looks like there's no room for trying to stack powers or anything, and magic-users are made of tissue paper and will die in one hit unless surrounded by all sides and can literally start with 0 hit points if they roll badly.

>>50936314

Not really. A skilled player is pretty impressive, but none of the skill goes into inflating numbers or breaking mechanics.
(Rob Kuntz was a beast.)

>>50936314
>pre-AD&D
So, 1974-7?

RC isn't pre-AD&D.

You don't get much in the way of mechanical customisation. Roll stats, select weapon proficiencies and non-weapon prof.s/secondary skills if you're using those bits, choose spells if you have them, spend thief skill points if you're playing 2e, and spend your money. That's it unless you break out Skills and Powers (which is hilariously broken) or are using kits (which are of massively variable quality).

>>50936380
Oh, and select race and class.

>>50936314
The closest thing is just someone who comes up with crazy ideas to solve problems. Like conquering a orc tribe and sending their warriors into the trap filled tomb so they set off all the traps, die, and then you come in to sweep up the treasure.
>>50936353
I think Rob used a similar technique to complete the Tomb of Horrors without any PC deaths or something crazy like that.

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>>50935393
Here's a set of EXP house rules you might be interested in pulling from/referencing:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxxIbZkFu4wdNTZhMzRhZDctY2ZhZS00OTcyLWFjMTctZjYzZWQ3NGZmOGQ4/view?ddrp=1&authkey=COqY74kI&hl=en#

eg
>Monster XP: 100xp/hd, +50 for minor powers, +100 for major powers
>1:1 extra EXP awarded for gold spent on non-functional items (clothes, drinks, whores; not weapons, equipment)
>carousing system

The thing to understand is that in pre-3 D&D, the majority of XP comes from loot (1:1 exp:gold), not monsters. There's a significant shift in the goals and emphases of the game compared to later editions - it's primarily about exploration & resource management (including time and spells as well as rations, torches, etc). Also, players began as only slightly more powerful than the average man - a level 1 in 3.5 is equivalent to ~ level 3 in 0e. You start as lowly tomb raiders, not heroes. Combat is a last resort up until mid-game, which takes a long time to reach due to the high rate of death, and is even then still rarely desirable. Most encounters with monsters will give opportunities to parlay, and usually if that fails, running or using the environment for a cheap win is the solution. It really is an entirely different game.

FYI you can get the Dark Dungeons for a rewritten freely available retro clone of RC.

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>>50936556
It's probably also worth noting that you need a shitload more XP.

>>50935833
This, right here. OSR is cancer, and if you disagree then so are you.

>>50936692
Cool.

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>>50936580
Well it doesn't mean much without checking the EXP granted rates. IIRC OD&D recommends granting enough experience for a new level every 3 sessions * level; eg lvl 2 at s3, lvl 3 at s9, etc. or something. make it was 5? If we can compare how many sessions to level in later editions, we'd have a more informative comparison.

An easier measure would be looking at XP granted for a universal and common monster like the goblin (sort of like the 'big mac index'), but it doesn't work what with pre-3 D&D getting most of its xp for loot. Graph related is average number of goblins killed by average level 1 fighter across editions before getting killed if they approached one after the other.

>>50936692
How can the original be cancer? The term only works on changes to an original, it's describing damaging foreign mutations on a host. For example, WOTC's failure of a reimagination of D&D and the hordes of underageb& who devour it up.

>>50936702
What's up with the jump from 1e to 2e? I thought they buffed gobs in 2e.

>>50936519

Rob had a brace of orcs serving as his personal guard, but they all died in the first hallway. He proceeded to successfully solo-run the rest of the Tomb, having never seen or heard anything of it before.
Some folks claim that Gary designed it to try to kill off his character Robilar. It obviosuly didn't work.

>>50936519
>>50937033
I always take these "skilled players" stories with a grain of salt

>"A 14-year old solo'd the Tomb of Horrors run by Gygax, he's such a good player!"
>he had magic boots that let him walk on the ceiling and was using a crystal ball every 5 seconds to scan for traps

>>50937149

Crystal balls don't allow you to scan for traps, anon.

He used his crystal ball to scry the other side of a door to look for ambushes

Don't doubt the man's skill though. Rob was the stuff of legends, and not just in D&D.

>>50936380
Rules Cyclopedia is a compendium of Basic D&D and its various continuations. BD&D was released a few years before AD&D and their supplements were released in parallel.

>>50935833
B8.

>>50936314
Overpowered classes, races, magic spells, and magic items still existed. All the greater if an astute player knew how to bring things together to really break the game.

>>50935348
I think it is hardly unreasonable to pique their curiosity with a trip into RPG's past. Don't tell them that D&D 3e sucks by comparison so much as open their minds to the idea that D&D was different before 3e. People played D&D for decades before 3e came around - why would it be unplayable?

Run a single module. No need to make them think you're going to run a long campaign from the beginning. If they like it then who knows where you can go from there?

>>50935393
Fair fights are something you try to avoid in classic D&D. Most of your XP comes from treasure, not killing things. Add in reaction rolls, and there is a fair chance that you can bargain, bribe, or lie your way past encounters.

>>50935873
This. Out-of-character communication is essential to mediating disputes. So act like adults and talk things out if you have a problem

>>50937267
But RC itself is not pre-AD&D. Even Holmes Basic is only barely pre-AD&D.

>>50937923
You are correct.

>>50936556
You can also buy the licensed pdf of RC for $9.99 or just pirate it.