Loyalist traitors?

>>50926686
I know the White Scars did, and even the Khan himself only stayed loyal because he made an oath.

>>50926686
>all

I have trouble believing that any of Batman's crew were loyal to the imperium. They were barely loyal to Talos after Batman died.

>>50927361
Didn't a member of the night lords become knights errant though?

>>50926686
yes, but FW has (rightfully) other things to do than to do a little section about every possible combination of loyalists traitors and traitors loyalists.

"Everything" is possible with Your Dudes, thats' the whole point of the setting.

>>50926686
at least one Raven Guard went traitor and joined Night Lords

>>50927487
I bet you're fun at parties

>>50927516
>TFW you are ADB getting told what for by anon about a setting you basically reinvigorated.

>>50926686
Pretty sure there was a renegade loyalist dude in "Black Sun, Dark Sky" who teamed up with Uriel.

>>50926698
he stayed loyal because Magnus told him everything that happened. Khan wanted to join Horus at first, and hoped that Horus HAD been wronged. After Magnus filled him in on the details he decided to stay loyal and kick Mortarion's ass

>>50927361
>>50927444
I thought so too. Weren't quite a few of the loyalist traitors put into the Deathwatch?

>>50926686

One of the Forge World HH books specifically says that every Legion, regardless of what side its Primarch came down on, had their own turncoats who went over to fight for the other side. There isn't a whole lot of detail on them, though the BL novel series features a loyalist Iron Warrior named Dantioch who has a fairly important role.

>>50929209
The Deathwatch wasn't formed until over a thousand years after The Scouring. From what we know loyalist traitors were either imprisoned, pressed into services (Knights Errant, Inquisition, Grey Knights), given remote postings (like Crysos Mortug's monitoring garrison near the Halo Stars), or possibly silently incorporated into loyalist Chapters (The Silver Skulls have 'chimeric' geneseed and claim to be UM successors but their chapter symbol is literally Dantioch's skull mask, etc.)

>>50929552
I read back in 30k the loyalist traitors joined to form the Blackshields, the precursor to Deathwatch. So would it really be that out of place to find some of these guys in the 40k Deathwatch?

>>50929651
So the deathwatch (good guys?) are founded on traitors from the Heresy?

>>50927361
There are canon two loyalist NL

>>50930926

Yea, I had forgotten. The Librarian and Servetar of all people.

>>50927487
>yes, but FW has (rightfully) other things to do than to do a little section about every possible combination of loyalists traitors and traitors loyalists.

that depends on how much money they can milk from the Golden Cow.

if they can make a few million from traitor ultrasmurf legions, you can bet your bottom dollar you'll see traitor models churned out faster than you can buy them.

>>50930946
Sevetar was a loyalist?

>>50931716

It's heavily implied after he saw most of the traitors fall to chaos. The implication is that he's the leader of the GK 8th company.

>>50931716
Nope
>>50931741
There is literally no implication at all it's him other than that they both wield chainglaives (big fucking whoop)

>>50932215

If it's not him, it's still very likely another psychic NL. Not many other legions used nostroman chain glaives.

>>50931269

At this point though there is nothing that really distinguishes Traitors from Loyalists that people already couldn't do. Sort of doubt this will even happen the future since the only Legions likely to undergo a change due to the increasing influence of Chaos are World Eaters, Death Guard, Emperor's Children, Word Bearers, Sons of Horus, and maybe Thousand Sons.

>>50929258
They also mention loyal Night Lords saving an army garnison force.

>>50930128

No, they were from loyalists you dummy. Garro was a loyalist

>>50933731
That's the knights errant

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>>50926686
Skyrar's Dark Wolves is a space wolves company that turned traitor. I seem to remember there being a named traitor space wolf HQ at some point but I cant remember his name.

>>50927361
>I have trouble believing that any of Batman's crew were loyal to the imperium.

A lot of the Terran Night Lords, while still a bit psychotic, legit believed in the idea that everything they did they did because it had to be done, rather than doing it for shits and giggles like the Nostramans post-Reunification (who were all the convicts and criminals of Nostramo, save the ones Curze personally selected when he left).

It's almost certain there were some loyalists among them, but they would only have likely existed in the exiled crusade elements and in very small numbers.

My OC Donut Steel Space Marine chapter is totally not descended from Blackshield Word Bearers Loyalists

>>50929651
>to form the Blackshields, the precursor to Deathwatch.

Blackshields were simply any army that did not fight under the flag of their Legion - be they loyalist or traitor. The Ashen Claws were Raven Guard who turned traitor and became blackshields, for example.

Nothing like the Deathwatch existed until post-Scouring, and the tradition of Blackshields in the Deathwatch was a holdover from the rogue armies of Blackshields from the Heresy.

>>50937773
>blacksheild word bearers
I think you picked the one legion with no confirmed loyalist elements

>>50937773
Anon, I'm sorry.

Word Bearers are literally the one legion with no loyalists.

>>50937980
Maybe some Imperial Heralds got lost in a warp storm.

>>50926686

There were. It's partly implied some Raven Guard may have turned. Most that would have are dead because Corax got them all killed when Horus was trying to weaken the loyalist legions with politics, so Corax sacrificed the least loyal elements of his legion. Still, if some survived they might have turned traitor.

Otherwise, they mention that many might have quietly slipped anchor to fight on the other team, so there may be loyalists and traitors to each traitor and loyalist team respectively. Dark Angels get the shit end of it because it was half their fucking legion, while the rest remained nominally loyalist or traitor, with maybe a few notable exceptions.

>>50937980
Barthusa Narek?

>>50926686
There certainly were. Most of the loyalist traitors, however, went onto to be quietly reincorporated into the Imperium, becoming the sole legacies of their Primarch's uncorrupted geneseed.
A more interesting question is whether or not there are any CSM warbands active in 40K that are descended from traitor loyalists.

One interesting bit of fluff to come out of 30k were the rise of black shield companies across the galaxies as entire groups of marines suddenly went rogue. Some fought as loyalists, others as traitors while many others went on to found their own minor empires and seek personal vendettas.

Nothing much else is known about this but i like to think there are some heresy era black shield empires somewhere on the fringes of the empire.

If enough marines from each traitor legion could form a chapter each, what would these loyalists look like in 40k?

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>>50929209
Some became Knight errants for Malcador, like picture related.

>>50937980
It had to be some, who still held the belief of the Emperor as a God. Someone on garrison duty far far away.

>>50941287
If he's the guy I think you're talking about, then no, iirc, he just thinks that Chaos is wrong, but being traitorous is the way to go though.

>>50941447
Nah mate. It even states that within the 40 years of time Lorgar had before the heresy began, he and his highest ranking weeded out each and every non-traitor in the legion and had them killed, either by sending them to the front lines or assassination.

If we go by 30k's rules, you may not use the Word Bearers legion rules to play a non-traitor force either.

>>50931269
>traitor ultrasmurfs
I want a Titus Brutus Coriollanus right now.

Fairly curious what traitor Blood Angels would be like.

Them being Khorne worshippers seems obvious, though the Black Rage was not yet a thing.

>>50941587

They share alot in common with the Emperor's Angels, so they could go full decadent retard.

Although thematically the most perfect marines being turned into the worship of Nurgle works the best.

>>50941609
>Ultramarines
>Nurgle Worshippers
I guess so.

>>50941616
Ultramarines would be Tzeentch. The best planners and statesmen in the Imperium go full retard with political schemes. They would write a reverse codex or something like that.

>>50941626
Ultras are too bland for beign aligned. They would be ol' fashioned chaos undivided. Praising the pantheon but not as fanatically as the WB. More like "roman bargaining with the gods with sacrifices" kind of worship.

>>50935511
>Traitor Space Wolves
>Literally just called Dark Wolves
but why

>>50941861
Because dark is eviilll

>>50941861
Because wolves wolf wolfs wolf.

>>50941405
Those would be Blood Ravens, for eample.

>>50926686
>besides the Dark Angels
What you mean?

>>50929552
>>50929209
From memory, there are implications (only implications, mind) that several chapters might actually have been formed from loyal members of the traitor legions.

Red Scorpions, for example, have unnaturally stable gene-seed, even purer than Ultrasmurf gene-seed, and the smurfs had the purest among the loyalist legions. The Emperor's Children, on the other hand... well, the Red Scorpions have a certain obsession with purity (body, mind, actions, equipment) and seem desperate to be as absolutely and completely codex compliant and loyalist as they can possibly get, while not letting anybody look at the origin of their gene-seed.

>>50941405
Grey Knights canonically started from loyal marines from traitor legions.

Silver Skulls, Blood Ravens, Death Eagles are the big implied ones. There are a few others as well.

>>50926698
The Khan personally removed the warrior lodges once he learned the truth.

>>50941576
Titus don't kill citizens of Ultramar to kill the Word Bearers or your banished
>" Titus gets Banished and joins the Word Brothers"

>>50941523
No that's Perty and Morty.

Narek hates the Ultras for what they did to Monarchia but he still believes in the divinity of the emperor and hates lorgar with a passion

Blood Angeks had a massive amount fall to Khorne, it is why they were depleated when they got to ultramar.

>>50931716
Its possible, ADB is hinting at it. Try reading The Long Night in Eye of Terra

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>>50942303
Thanks. What's the matter, you administratum clerks,
That, rubbing the poor itch of your opinion,
Make yourselves scabs?

He that will give good worlds to thee will flatter
Beneath abhorring. What would you have, you weaklings,
That like not words nor war? the one makes you impacient,
The other makes you faint. He that trusts to you,
Where he should find you allies, finds you traitors;
Where wisemen, dumb: you are no surer, no,
Than is the life of the ork under the sword,
Or spaceship into a warpstom.

>>50941626
DA would go Tzeentch.
Their homeworld was already touched by him and they love secrets within secrets within secrets.

>>50941861
Think of a better one.

Hard Mode: You have to use the word Wolf or a synonym.

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>>50946145
The Black Pack

>>50946145
>The Raveners
>The Warpfangs

Hard Mode:
>Hounds/Wolves of (insert Chaos God here)
>The Bloody/Starving Pack for Khorne/Nurgle respectively
>The Penitents for Tzeentch
I can't really see woofs falling to Slaanesh, so I'll leave that one out.

In an "inverted heresy" the aligned legions would probably be

Tzeentch: Space Wolves. Despite denying it, they're one of the most sorcerous legions, plus the maximum irony factor.

Khorne: Blood Angels, obvious.

Slaanesh: Ultramarines, same reasons Emperor's Children fell (pursuit of perfection), plus Guilliman's need for control and paranoia. Possibly also White Scars.

Nurgle: Iron Hands, fortifying the weakness of (living) flesh, casting off all pain and emotion.

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>>50946282
>I can't really see woofs falling to Slaanesh

>>50946448
But anon, they don't need to fall to Slaanesh for the knot. They got official chapter approved knotting back at the Fang.

>>50946389
Who would be the Undivided Warmaster of the Inverted Heresy if both Guilliman and Sangy are aligned?

>>50946504
So they are safe because Slaanesh cannot offer them anything more perverted than what they already?

>>50946565
Pretty much. Also they're Khornate as fuck by nature.

>>50946389
I'd switch the Angels and Wolves. They could go either way, but the Wolves seem more likely to start piling skulls for the skull throne. And wolves for the wolf ottoman.

>>50946628
Khorne and Slaanesh often compete for the same worshippers. Slaanesh isn't all about weird boning, any decadence or obsession can come under Slaanesh's influence.

Blood lust can go either way.

>>50946666
>wolves for the wolf ottoman
>Khorne angrily leaning back in his throne and putting his legs up on one bigass pile of howling, giant wolves

>>50946666
Super Satan is right here.

>>50946505
Dorn probably

>>50946389
I think you should swap ultramarines with imperial fists. Ultras don't really pursue perfection, or at least I can't really see lot of similarities with the emperor children, while the fists revel in extreme stimulation, in their case being a pursuit of strenght and clarity through mortification of the flesh, in the end something they come really close to masochism

also, in this case
>>50946505
Guilliman would probably be the warmaster. I kinda see him as a manipulating, politicking tyrant without any particular, uhm, fetish; he would fit the role pretty well

>>50927361
There's an entry in HH6 that specifically mentions blackshields in NL armor

>>50931741
I don't believe that for a second as a NL player.

No way the Imperium would ever accept the guy who coined "death to the false emperor".

>>50937886
>>50937980
There was the "huntsman" veteran word bearer on Calth who made it his mission to kill Lorgar.

>>50949660
sevatar is the closest thing to a space marine sue you'll be able to find

I'm sure he was accepted immediately, without question.

>>50949710
That would be Khayon

>>50950416
I guess if we're being academic about it, the ideal form of an ABCD original character marine would be the closest thing to a space marine sue you'd be able to find.

>>50943457
Well, Luther was Undivided, and almost all of the Fallen Angels are unaligned, so I disagree.

>>50943457
I see their bent towards secrecy more being a counterpart to the Alpha Legion