/hhg/ - Horus Heresy General

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>>50924978
>Greatest Achievement in the Great Crusade
We built glorious cities dedicated to the Emperor, and every civilization we conquered, we helped rebuild in the Emperor's name! They all loved us and the Emperor dearly.

But then the Emperor got mad for some reason.

We don't love him anymore.

>>50925004
You Word Bearers are cool people.

Don't go to Monarchia tomorrow.

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>>50924978
>I'd love to hear tabletop victories too
Remember anons, "the warrior who acts out of honour cannot fail. His duty is honour itself. Even his death - if it is honourable - is a reward and can be no failure, for it has come through duty. Seek honour as you act, therefore, and you will know no fear."
t. Guilliman

>>50924978
>Legion's greatest achievement during the Great Crusade?
We managed to conquer Terra, despite most sources saying only DAngels existed at the time.

So, are non-IF vets any good?

I'd consider Weaponmasters but they don't look so hot for the AL, not to mention Coils forces them to ride a lame Rhino DT, thus forbidding them from using a Dreadclaw

Marksmen sounds ok until you realize rending bolters are still bolters and the plasma guns they can buy do most of the job, not to mention your dudes can already Outflank due to Scout and Infiltrate being the only Mutable Tactics worth the trouble

Then there's Machine killers, which can go nicely with Tank hunters, combi-meltas and Dynat. Problem is Dynat himself doesn't go too well with Coils, and using Tank Hunters as your Mutable would mean most of your army essentially becomes LA-less and transportation would still be an issue as Scout, Infiltrate and Outflank would now be unavailable.

Skorr + Mutable tactics + Veteran tactics sounded like a good flexible combo, but most of the possible combinations are lame. Any ideas?

Reposting for new bread
>>50923700
Fantastic squad! How did you do the gold bits?

(And is the red the usual silver + clear red?)

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Reposting

What are you guys working on?

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Speaking of T-Sons, what do you think of these brand new bases?

Too weird to have every single surface/base of the army covered in hieroglyphs?

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>>50924978

We won every single battle and got fuck-all credit because we're not the goddamn pretty mutants (half of whom fucking rebelled, and 10% of whom somehow did something even worse than that).

Motherfuckers.

>>50925407
I found a bunch of Rhinos and a Vindicator that I'd left at my mum's before graduate year, so I'm stripping them down and priming them up hopefully.

Just finished building my Spartan, on the desk there are 10 Death Shroud to finish and 20 Mk III marines waiting to be primed and painted

>>50925092
I'd repost my victory over the Tau Alliance, but I don't have the screencap for some reason.
Do any of you have it?

>>50925617
more info plz

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>>50925407
I just started my work on veterans/Havocs for my Bitter Boys, but I now realise that having them in plain mk3 is a tad weird, since they're meant to be veterans and shit. But, they're IW so it's not like they're meant to be pimpy.

The drilling and magnetising of all those wrists will be a bitch I reckon. This way I can swap between "standard marine pose weapons" whenever I feel like it.

I need to get my hands on Khalybrax autocannons as well

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Just getting near halfway through Master of Mankind, I have mixed feelings about ADB's idea that the Emperor is detachedly manipulative and inhuman toward his Primarchs.

On one level it's good in the sense that it gives traitor legionaries validity in their bitterness; giving rise to the question of what happens to the Emperor's toys when he's done with them. Another level it's good in that it matches up with the Omnissiah's robotic inhumanity.

Though I liked the portrayal of E as this slightly compassionate father who despite his inhuman coldness still has that slither of love for his gene-children. Thinking about it I kinda like the idea this personification/humanization of the Emperor is in fact the projection of lesser beings trying to justify their allegiance to him, for their own sake.

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>>50925686

The Pinocchio analogy used by the Emperor was particularly grim. FUCK YOU GRANDADDY, PRIMORDIAL TRUTH FOREVER

>>50925686
Can't go into details without spoiling stuff with you only being halfway through, but the impression I got was that Emps is detachedly manipulative and inhuman towards EVERYONE.

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Who was best first captain and why was it Sigismund?

>>50925686
I mean, the book is good by itself. It's written well, it's entertaining.

It's the implications of the story I don't like, which is becoming a recurring theme with ADB. I like how he writes but not what he writes.

I preferred Empy to be caring of Mankind and the Primarchs but, you know, being a 38k years old divine like being makes it a wee bit hard to relate and understand humans and actual emotions after all this time. So he fucks up, and doesn't micro manage his sons 24/7. Shit happens. It's tragic but shit happens.

Here, we have a big ass fuck you thrown into our face about how Chaos has won already and how He did almost everything wrong,while being a turbo autist atheist that is closer to a calculating AI than a person.

I guess the fact that I always was a loyalist and Imperium fag at heart doesn't help, but I definitely prefer the old canon ("WE ARE AGONIZINGLY ALONE") to this new one, even though some bits are interesting, like all the fluff about the Custodes and SoS.

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>>50925802
>The man, the myth, the legend

All I can see now whenever I hear this phrae is this poor sod's face.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oY2nVQNlUB8

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>>50925407
Death Guard from last thread, going for a different from standard washed out green, kind infectious green you find on those gross flies.

>>50925917
Where is that bareheaded dude from? I fail to recognize him, which angers me greatly.

>>50925802
What's the full list anyway? Can't remember all of them.

>DA
?
>EC
Eidolon
>IW
Forrix
>WS
Qin Xa?
>SW
?
>IF
Siggy Diggy
>NL
Sevvy Devvy
>BA
Raldoran
>IH
?
>WE
? (Nobody cared about him anyway, least of all Angron.)
>UM
Marius Gage
>DG
Typhon
>TS
Didn't really use the rank? So kinda Ahriman.
>SOH
Abaddon
>S
?
>RG
Didn't use normal company structure after Isstvan, so didn't have a 1st company.
>AL
Alpharius.

>>50925936
FW Day Praevion model for Nârik Dreygur

>>50925650
Years ago, at the start of 5th edition, my shop had a fairly large crew, but only 3 SM players of some stripe (myself/UM, shop owner/DH-GKs, scumbag/BA), my bro who played IG, 2 D/Eldar players, and 7 Tau players we dubbed "The Tau Alliance" because they were all chummy with each other, including this rich fucker I despised.
Ever see a Manta with your own eyes, anon? I have. The Tau Alliance had several, one scratchbuilt, iirc.
Anyway, we would play Apoc games, all of the Tau Alliance versus the rest of us chumps, and I'd always throw my 4/5k (at the time) of UMs and my buddy would toss in his entire Guard against them in absolutely brutal apoc games against their 29k of Tau.
We always lost, badly, but the storytime I speak of was our one great victory where we (with the aid of the store owner) literally destroyed the Tau Alliance, on the table and irl, forever.

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>>50925976

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>>50925407
Converting some Destroyers into a squad of assault marines and a Vigilator. 9 down, 4 more to go.

>>50926023
There we go.
I almost miss the bastards, I would like to go full WAAC on the rich fucker

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>>50925976
>the Tau Alliance

Add that to the list of "names to run away from really fast"...

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So the only legions with access to assault cannons are the Imperial Fists and Blood Angels?

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>>50926023
Whoa boy, you really fortified that position!

>an entire company's worth of marines died or were mulched into requiring mega-bionics to secure this victory

>>50926191
Yes.

Apparently there's a weird loophole that it applies to ALL the Blood Angels heavy flamers, not just terminators. For some reason.

>>50925957
the salamander first captain is artellus numeon

>>50925957
WE would be Kharn. He was captain of the 8th company, but was the most senior officer because all the others were killed by Angron after picking him up from De'Shea.

>>50925353

>marksman is ok

Remember sniper makes you always wound on at least a 4+ and that's on top of AP2 on a 6. They're quite good.

They also get outflank natively with sniper so you don't have to pick it with your mutable tactic

You'll want to get them a rhino generally anyway, they're too expensive to footslog and outflanking with a rhino gets you an extra 6" of range

>>50925957
>Didn't really use the rank? So kinda Ahriman.
Well he was the Chief Librarian, so in a Legion of psykers he might as well have been the first captain.

>Alpharius
Apparently the canon first captain was named Ingo Pech. But the command structure of the Alpha Legion was fluid as hell, so there were times he was subordinate to another person. Depending on who was deemed the "Harrowmaster" for the mission.

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What's the best way to field a Davinite Priest in 30k? A force commander in a militia list maybe?

>>50926259
>Apparently there's a weird loophole that it applies to ALL the Blood Angels heavy flamers, not just terminators. For some reason.
It's an experiment, Anon.

Rules question about Recon Company. Do I need 3 squads of recons or just 1? It's a little unclear because they specifically say that the extra compulsory must be a recon.

>>50925917
What is your armor recipe anon? I like it

>>50926191
The other legions have acess to them on dreads and some other vechicles, but BA and IF are the only ones to put them on terminators.
However you can field predators with 4 ass cannons which is fun

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>>50925407
Finished my Contemptor and made a nice collage for a contest at my LGS.

>>50925917
Very, very nice anon!

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>>50927618
>However you can field predators with 4 ass cannons which is fun
That's a lot of ass

>>50927672
BA devastator squads can field 10 ass cannons but ok

>>50927658
Lovely work.

>>50927618
>>50927672
>take blood angels legion stormlord
>add two pairs of (i.e. 4) sponsons with TL heavy bolters & lascannon
>swap heavy bolters for heavy flamers, then heavy flamers for assault cannons
>add pintle heavy flamer, swap that for assault cannon as well
>in total, vulcan mega-bolter plus five assault cannons fire 50 shots when stationary (plus some lascannons and heavy bolters)
>put 20 heavy support marines with assault cannons to shoot out of troop bay
>total shots per turn: 143
Sufficient dakka?

>>50927827
And if anyone's wondering, it would cost you 1240 points to do this madness (including a legion crew and armoured ceremite for the stormlord).

>>50926952
Pls link rules, have no idea what he does.

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>>50925407
Some Hammernators, but fuckin FW sure is taking their time with those transfers...

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>>50925407
I'm doing a diorama out of these 2. Ahriman on top of a small mound of dead T Sons and sprue rubble. With not-Bjorn racing up wanting to shank him.

I trimmed down the SWs ridiculous hair. Also Ahrimans mask was way too thick with paint hence why it's been scraped down to grey plastic.

>>50927492
RAW only one recon squad. However, somebody asked Bligh about it on the last open day and appearantly the intention is that you require 3 units. But untill it's oficially FAQ'd you should be fine with just one.

>captcha is select pics with tea
>two different pics with cups standing in an esspresso machine had to be selected to pass
>fucking REEEEEEEEEEEE

>>50928122
It does seem a bit odd that a recon "company" means 5 recon marines stuck on the side of a normal army, in most cases.

>>50928122

Should I be prepared for 3 just in case?

Also, how should I model recon armor? No shoulder pads?

>>50928353
scouts?

>>50928430

I already have the HH boxes. I didn't want to buy more.

>>50925957
>RG
It was and still is Strike Captain Maun. Master of Decent, Nightfall One.

>>50928514
>>50926296
>>50926439
>>50926895
>still noone has noticed that I accidentally forgot the word bearers
"Apparently the custodes killed several dozen word bearers and a blind girl."
"Why the blind girl?"
"See? Nobody cares about the word bearers."
t. Thiel.

>>50927492
RAW is that you need three. Dont listen to the other guy. Tactical marines, assault, and breachers are NOT COMPULSORY THEMSELVES. only their slot is. Thus when Recons are made complusory, they are explicitly required.

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>>50928514

>>50928560
That's because nobody wants to talk about Kor failure and Smugebus.

>>50928560
word bearers are shit, news at eleven

>>50925873
Same
>>50925957
Wasn't Luther the Lion's second in command? When betrayals happen the second in command can fuck the main legion big time.
Also, Arkhas Fal or whatever he's called was the former RG legionmaster, got demoted to chapter master of the Pale Nomads, sent on Predation Fleet mode to the V O I D.

>>50928514
>Master of Decent
Sounds like an agreeable fellow.

>>50928514
>Master of Decent,
>>50928999
Could this be the nicest legionary to adorn pauldrons?

>>50928514
>Master of Decent
N-no homo.

>>50928561

Hrm.

What if I ally a recon company with the primary as a Terror Assault?

>>50928999
>>50929227
>>50929236
Descent whoops. Phoneposting. Not even once.

>Its not like I want to Fatal Strike you b-baka!

>>50929314
Why? Whats your goal?

>>50928960
"Welcome to the O U T E R D A R K."

>>50928999
>>50929227
>>50929236
>>50929381
He seems like a Descent guy
>Carlos.exe

>>50929390
He wants the extra going first stuff while only paying a single recon "company"

>>50928560
I did notice!
Then i forgot to write about that un my own comment

>>50928560
>Giving a crap about objectively the worst legion
For what purpose?

>>50929526
Ahh ok. I mean If you take curze its a guaranteed +3 to cover turn one for whatever infiltrates or scouts.

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>>50925407
Painted about 30 guys during the holiday. Here is a few of them.

>>50925353
Machine Destroyers Combi-meltas with Dynat sound damn killy, especially when combined with a way to get close like Scout/Infiltrate/Outflank. Str9 AP0 melta woooooo!

Skorr can use vet troops with his RoW, but he himself has no real combos with them other than Infiltrate+Scouting some Machine Destroyers

>>50929589

NL get a 5+ cover T1 anyway without NF, and terror assault gets NF on a 2+

>>50929602
>That guy at the back
>Hey guys! Did anyone lose a thunderhammer?

>>50929602
>Tfw you can't see shit do you strap a Superheavy lamp on your shoulder.
I'll be the light of my legion!

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>>50925407
transfers on the rest of my marines

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Is there a pdf scan of the Crusade Imperialis book? The epub version is horrible to read.

>>50929798
>mixing missile launcher types
aaaaaaaaaaa

>>50929813
The outdated redbook?

>>50929877
It's not outdated numbnuts.

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>>50929813
This PDF is outdated? I don't believe you

>>50929877
Oh shit, is it outdated? Where can I find the most up to date version?

>>50929798
Nice and crisp. Top work.

>>50929900
Thats the one that has knights right? Its outdated.

>>50929875
meh I had spare missile launchers from old tactical boxes I had lying around.

I dont really care all that much because ultramarines used more streamlined equipment anyways

>>50929911
>Points out the PDF anon is looking for, gatting double dubs in the process.
>Doesn't get (You)'s. Nobody does anymore.
Why even live?

>>50930017
Just double checked, the pdf in the top is the new one. Has the new knights and top mounts. Thank the emperor for digital updates.

>>50929972
thanks anon

>>50928353
Could just paint some parts of their armour black or camo, depending on the legion they're gonna be part of.

But preparing for needing 3 units seems the safe bet.

>>50930259

They're Night Lords, so they're already pretty dark.

I'm still undecided, but I like the idea of terror squads with the Recon Company and a Vigilator raptor squad.

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>>50925802
Probably ahriman. Being a psyker seems to simply scale your power-levels to ridiculous no matter what your rank.

>>50926046
Liked them on the Slack, liked them here.

What's a good color for highlighting copper or brass?

>>50929911
Shit I'm blind.

>>50930299
a ya ya yaiiiiiiiiiiii
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUhVCoTsBaM

Space Wolves and Thousand Sons psykers could humble their equivalents, as they are more or less the only ones who specifically applied themselves to war.

But Ahriman? Pre-heresy he was a precognitive monster, not someone who'd turn others into a crater and not his post-heresy "I explode planets by accident when I warp-fart"

>>50930348
A lighter brass if its dark, auric gold if its medium, rune fang if its light

>>50930400
Sevetar was an unwilling precognitive monster and if it werent for siggy diggy's eternal wiggy he'd have no problem kicking anyone's ass. If a precognitive monster comes along and actually applies himself i could only imagine he'd be able to best sevatar.

>>50930470
But Sevatar was exceptionally good at shanking fuckers, right? How good is Ahriman in close combat?

Knowing when and how a blade will try to stab you is good, but if your body can't actually do anything about it in time?

>>50930400
>Space Wolves and Thousand Sons psykers could humble their equivalents, as they are more or less the only ones who specifically applied themselves to war.
Holy kek.
A) TS simply have no equivalents, they have mind bench pressed so much and have the right geneseed they're probably in a category of their own.

B) Fenris or not, SW librarians are regular librarians, and all proppa librarians did war. You know, like all marines dedicated their whole existence to war.
>But some wasted time on poetry and other hobbies!
Anon tell me, what is better: to study day and night without rest or to study sane hours and have your daily rest? Answer is I don't know, I've got a big save-the-semester exam in January and actual psychic powers would definitely help.

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>>50925802
no

>>50930452
Thank you.
I'll try runefang.

>>50930571
Fine war was not the right word. Less restraints is more fitting.

In comparison the White Scars librarians are extremely impressed by what both the SW and TS can do, since the Stormseers refuse to tap too deeply into the warp. The other legions have outlooks on librarians that range from cold looks to straight up murdering them. Not conductive environments to getting Named Character-level good at it.

I don't know how the Blood Angels and Dark Angels deal with them. But the Wolves and Sons both tap the shit into it. I guess there's that one Salamander dude too? Except he's just been drinking from the warp koolaid or something.

The more i think on Moritats the less sense it makes for them to be an HQ. Or even a consul. They arent traditional leaders. They are just really good at M A X I M I Z I N G C A S U A L T I E S . Nobody liked them, but they were useful.

Whats if they got toned down a bit and became an elite choice as a 1-3 option? They were used in groups anyway. No artificer armor, simplified chainfire, maybe only switch out one pistol for an alt to represent them barely getting support. Can go solo, join up, or 1 per destroyer squad.

Thoughts?

>>50930505
Well ill concede that if this was a close combat duel then ahriman would probably lose. But Id bet on him in a shooty match.

>>50930571
There was one SW psyker ahriman met that he admitted was vastly stronger than himself, if clumsier.

>>50930665
Moritats take an HQ slot because whenever one of them shows up for a mission suddenly everyone else has an excuse for not participating.

>>50930665
Moritats are actually a lot less ridiculous now. Their HQs mostly because of their profile.

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>>50930665
It would be nice, I guess.
1-3 choice like Apothecaries, but restricted to 0-1.
I've never undestood the association between Moritats and Destroyers. Yes, I also don't understand why Moritats have rad grenades, since they suck at melee and can't charge after Chain Firing, which is probably the only thing they'll get to do in the whole game before being killed.

>>50930765
both are garbage, they belong together

>>50930673
People often seem to forget that before prospero got sacked Ahriman was mostly an advisor that could tell you the precise moment you were going to fart at an inappropiate moment next year. Yet still he was respected highly within and without his own legion.

>>50930707
They're bad now, flat bad.

I get that they are an HQ becuase they're a consul and thus based off a centurion. But they aren't really centurion material standing wise. What im proposing is make them more a support unit like an apothecary and tone them down to match. That way they're at least worth taking. As is now they're crap

>>50930765
Moritats are part of the Destroyer Corps. Thus they get access to forbidden weapons and other murderers. They're the primus medicae to apothecaries

>>50930813
This pretty much, while we aren't exactly sure how powerful Ahriman was at the time (though a lot of the Legion believed him to be pretty up there), most knew him as an amazing source of knowledge.

Hell, it was implied that even Kharn had a measure of respect for him, sharing one of his catchphrases to others.

>>50930673
I think in a few books it was mentioned Ahriman could hold his own a decent amount in close combat, but not spectacularly. He'd surely be able to augment his abilities but a highly trained fighter would probably still outdo him.

Sevatar is a bit of a weird example in that his abilities likely had a lot to do with his Primarch who was a very potent seer.

Hell in a battle between Kurze and Sanguinious they just gave up fighting because they were too good at looking into the future to see each others moves. And the Night Haunter got bored with it and wanted to talk instead.

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>>50930596

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>Paint Blood Angels red and gold
>Everyone thinks I'm Thousand Sons
>Local Wolffag won't stop trying to mouth off at me

>>50930934
Source on the pic?

>>50930847
A) They're simply killers operating outside regular Legion command structure

B) Destroyers are marines sanctioned to use forbidden weaponry, but most of the time they use simple very-much-sanctioned bolt pistols. The three sole forbidden weapons they use are rad bombs, rad missiles and phosphex bombs. Not anything else, and my source is Echoes of the Old Night, aka the DG Destroyer short story. It was...underwhelming. And sad :(

TL;DR: Moritats have no relation whatsoever to Destroyers, and if you want to look at Destroyer HQs then look at Morturg, Typhon and Zardu Layak, actual members of the Destroyer Corps(e).

>>50930981
probably from macragge's honour

>>50925957
>SW

Gunnar Gunnhilt

>IW
Gabriel Santar

>DA
Luther, then Corswain during the later part of the heresy

>>50930988

He's saying Moritats are related to Destroyers because they can join Destroyer squads but no one else, and because FW put their Moritat model in Destroyer armor.

>>50925957
Eiodolon and Gage weren't captains, they were the equivalent of chapter masters. Of course it could be that all of the first captains were leading chapter equivalents as opposed to 100ish man companies.

>>50928960
>>Wasn't Luther the Lion's second in command? When betrayals happen the second in command can fuck the main legion big time.
He was nominally until the end of Thramas Crusade, when Lion went to Macrage he sent out Corswain to hunt the traitors as his seneschal (Luther's ra.k).
>Also, Arkhas Fal or whatever he's called was the former RG legionmaster, got demoted to chapter master of the Pale Nomads, sent on Predation Fleet mode to the V O I D.
Why did Corax keep Sukhounu at his side and not Arkhas Fal?

>>50925957

>WS

Jubal, Lord of Summer Lightning

>>50931050
>IW
Gabriel Santar

Surely you mean IH

>>50928560

God, I wish I had a way to model Cyrene.

>>50929602

> g-guys, which way are we supposed to be looking?

>>50931050
>>IW
>Gabriel Santar
Hahahaha Ferrus Honore Veniat!

>>50931118
Yes, I'm saying it's a rather forced relation

>>50930968
Luxury problems,pal.

>t. rural Anon with no people to play with in his surroundings.

>>50931443
Angelos calls Exterminatus on it :^)
>>50931248
Arkhas was terran and represented the part of his legion Corax wanted to do away with, because he had been a nephew of Horus more time that had been a son of Corax.

Because he's totally over those Wolves, Russ is new Raven husbando :^)

>>50930968
Heh, I had the opposite problem.

Everyone assumed I'm playing blood angels because I like to take auto cannons

When painting black do you prefer to start black or dark grey and wash?

>>50931443
Couldnt it literally just be any priestess with her eyes painted closed?

>>50931676
Looks better with dark grey, but highlighting primer is so much easier. Drybrush if youre really lazy.

>>50931658
>Russ is new Raven husbando
Too bad he spends the entire rest of the Heresy sidelined pining for his husbando because he can't take the hardcore Buddy Cop bromance action Lion and Russ start putting out on their way to relieve Terra.

>>50930968
And that's why I'm painting the BA army I started with the black trim that FW has used.

>>50930921
Well assuming ahriman's skills havent dulled over 10,000 years of reading. He'd only have WS 5, I 5, W 3, A 3...

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>>50932009
They're in an open relationship.
> f r o m . w o l f . t o . w o l f

>>50931543

I think so too. I like FW's model but I would have preferred the Moritat to not be in Destroyer armor for the solo operatives. Maybe they wear that not because they are part of the Destroyers, but because they need the protection for when they accompany actual Destroyers.

>>50930988
>Didnt read any of the fluff entries
For example, those weapons arent the only weapons destroyers can use, they just happen to only have them in their rules. Like bio alchemical ammo. My sources arethe FW black books which>BL

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>>50932619
But Laurie himself said that FW is not canon :^)

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>>50927509
Ok so base shading is done with an airbrush of course. Brown base, highlighted with grey, then a heavy zenith white highlight. This was then heavily washed with sepia wash and then drybrushed with pallid wych flesh. Green is warpstone glow and then green wash and i will be doing some more blending on it as well. Going for bronze trims the same color as my mechanicum so I can use them with the praevion.

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>>50932619
>>Didnt read any of the fluff entries
Nigga where do you think I got the fluff about Moritats? Their entry and the RG section of HH3, those are the only two sources whatsoever in the whole Horus Heresy about Moritats.
Supposedly a Moritat commanded Chaplain Deathguardpants to lead the Destroyers to kill some IF survivors, but it was a shitty story and decided to leave that out of my comment, because all he says is basically "get that shit done, don't mind I, a moritar, am not really a commanding officer proper, okseeyalaterbye".

>>50927658
very nice yourself bro! that is one sleek ass Contemptor, loving that black, its like midnight

>>50932691
You didnt read the destoyer entry.

Also, BL being canon is top kek

>>50932640

I don't think he ever said that but if he did that's just another reason to hate an already Hitler level faggot.

>>50929602
>>50929798
I love post xmas /hhg/ anons actually paint fantastically and post

>>50932748
It does say they use lots and lots of proscribed weapons, but that claim matters shit if they only ever get three of said weapons. Errata anon proposed they get chem (hand)flamers, that was nice.
It also didn't help that story confirmed their tabletop version (because new stories are pretty much fluffy crunch rather than the stuff you couldn't really nail with the tabletop), or that the DA, which supposedly are the destroyer legion, their Heavy support squads can use stasis rockets, grenades and acid bolts.
DA > Destoryers.

>>50929798

That pencil made me think one of the marines had a giant lightsaber in the thumbnail.

>>50929602
Someone send a pic of this to that one shit IW painter to show him what REAL IW look like
You know, the one that always says they are IF

>>50932846
>DA > Destoryers.
Destroyers don't have Covenant of Death.

>>50932846
Rules=/= full lore. Otherwise Mor Deythan would have Coraxs psuedo invisibility.

And its not claim, its just not included in their rules. Not their fault fw didnt include more options based on the lore from the same page.

Also i want chem hand flamers too

>>50932689
Thanks man. Looks really good

>>50932966
>Play Destroyers, lose because you brought Destroyers
>Play Dark Angels, lose because you brought Dark Angels
Evens out.

I might get my hands on some griffins, is there something I can do to make them look a bit more...legiony?

>>50925651
get you some medusan immortals and chop off any IH iconography

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>2A
>Relentless
>Combi-bolters gain Shred when firing Banestrike ammo
>Can swap to Scorpius ammo at no cost

Are headhunters fixed?

>>50934121
Was with you up to the scorpius ammo thing, especially if you want to give them Relentless (taking away the disadvantage of scorpius).

>>50934121
Honestly, a points cut, Banestrike in Bolt Pistols, no range reduction for Banestrike, and another Heavy Bolter are probably all they really need.

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>>50934244

Ah, right, Relentless Scorpius would be bad balance.

In that case, just 2 attacks, relentless, and shred on the combi-bolters.

I just really love these models but they're so bad on the tabletop, and their RoW isn't too hot either.

OP here: How effective are Palatine Blades on the field? Are they worth it, or should I just use the models as squad sergeants/officers?

>>50934384

They're okay. You have to toss a bunch of points at them to make them viable (jump packs, power spears, etc) and that adds up quick.

>>50924978

Is raping and pillaging acceptable under Tzeentch?

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>>50934419
I 'might' field them with jump-packs then, as I had a conversion idea, but otherwise I might just use them as bling'd up officers.

>>50934463
Eh, that's more Slaanesh's domain. Mindfucking is acceptable though.

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I'm trying to pick out some good Mk III leg bits and I'm trying to decide between getting some recasts of this ( https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/Legion-MkIII-Iron-Armour-2016 ) or going with the Burning of Prospero set.

I've seen the Prospero sprew and the legs look kind of shitty on it. Can someone comment on how the legs are for it and how posable they are? How much variety could I get out of them?

>>50934121
Hydra Pattern Combi bolter, which makes banestrike assault 2

make banestrike AP3 on a 5+

points reduction, but make the power daggers free when figuring it

>>50934497

I'm a newbie heretic, and I'm trying to decide on a Chaos Deity to follow. What if I went Chaos Undivided, but only followed Tzeentch and Slaanesh?

>>50934617
To be honest, in the current phase of the Heresy story line you don't even have marks yet, so you dedicate yourself to whoever you want, there is no formal "worship this or that god" system in place.

Whats a good way to get some AA into a Terror Assault while still keeping a NL feel to it? Contemptor with plasma fists? Combi Melta Cataphractii? Boring support squads? Predators Squadron?

>>50934617
>What if I went Chaos Undivided, but only followed Tzeentch and Slaanesh?
>Undivided
Tzeentch and Slaanesh
>Pick one
Undivided is all or nothing. There's no shipping names for two powers. Like bumblebee or checkmate. But I do applaud your choices.

You can totally do two if you want. They're jsut be scouring timeline+. But time travel shenanigans do exist.

>>50934706
You mean AT? Not Anti-Air? Leviathan and/or Termis

>>50934722
>Undivided
>Tzeentch+Slaanesh***
>Pick one

I can 4chan i promise

>>50934722

Yes. I totally meant AT.

How do I load out the terms? Combi-melta and fists/hammers? Plasma?

>>50934549

The plastic leg poses are shit, just like the Calth ones. If you want good legs, get the resin ones, specifically the two at the top.

>>50934706
They're not especially popular in 30k (probably because rapiers outshine them in pretty much every way) but tarantulas are pretty NL-y. By which I mean, there's one little bit of fluff about the NL using tarantulas to great effect on Isstvan.

>>50934549

If it's just for a few characters, buy the forgeworld set of 5

If it's for forgettable rank and file just buy Prospero

>>50934764
Chainfists. That armourbane. Plasma and reapers for mid av/rear av, melta for higher, fists for armoured ceramite

A Deredeo wouldn't seem too out of place for the night lords, they used dreadnoughts and I think in one of the black books they have a thing about the NL ripping an ultramarine out his dreadnought and taking it

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Here is a group shot of the gold trimmed bitter boys. Do you guys have any tips for painting hazard stripes evenly? I can never get it right and a few of these guys have some fucked up left shoulder pads. The colors and lines look good its just their sizes vary wildly.

>>50932640
goldberg earns my hatred once again

>>50935065
Sharp called, they want their first phone camera back.

>>50935065
Masking tape.

>>50935128
I'm sorry

>>50935176
I'll try that out

>>50935231
I mean they look cool from what I can see but

>>50934969

Sounds like a plan.

>>50934855

What do I give them? Can't my opponents just set up around them?

>>50925957
Do Iron Hands even have a first captain? Everything is split up into fairly independent clan companies. I guess technically the Avernii were the "elite" clan that Ferrus brought with him to Isstvan but I can't recall them ever mentioning any captains in the company. I guess they probably would have but they never really got into it.

Besides, black sheep terran moon-man is cooler.

>>50935568
I think their Grand Wizard got killed in the Massacre and Meduson's more or less the new Grand Wizard.

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Thousand sons sergant made With the New rubric marines set fw bits and a TK sword

>>50935808
I'll care when it's painted.

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>acquire whole squads of Tartaros terminators to start an Imperial Fists army for 2+/3++ fisting sweeping advance goodness
>tfw this happens

Any other legion that takes advantage of Tartaros termies? Cuz otherwise these babies gots to go.

>>50936131
welcome to five months ago, I guess?

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>>50925407
Part of today's efforts.It's nice when the FLGS overstocks on something then sells it 50% off a year or so later.

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So I finally sat down and started playing with the shapeways boarding shields.After much trial and error I figured out how to mount them to they don't catch on the should pauldron and will stay aligned:

Cutting the wrist mount at an angle. That way you can just lop off the hand on the arm and flatten a bit of the vambrace to mount the shield.

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>>50925407

I have both HH boxes to make pretty into Night Lords.

I can't decide what I'm doing.

>>50936524

1. Assemble your marines
2. Make them spooky
3. If lacking bits to make them spooky, buy spooky bits on eBay
4. Make them spooky

>>50936726
5. ???
6. Spooky

>>50936757

Thats not enough, your pieces have to channel the effort of spooky. Now they're just going to turn out like godawful pieces of shit that no one will ever want to buy off you, but thats part of the fun.

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>>50936726

I have to decide how they look spooky, though.

>>50931660
Auto cannons? Didn't know those were a blood angels specialty.

>>50936810

Well you have two choices on the matter. Design according to:

1. What scares you?
2. What scares little kids?

>>50936832
>large penises

>>50936832
muslims

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>>50936524
>>50936810
These look chaos corrupted and more akin to word bearers then Night Lords. Demon faces and spikes do not a 30k Night Lords make anon. NL are scary because they wear the skins of your friends and family they killed in the last city and laugh while doing it to your city, not because they are spooky chaos fuckbois

>>50936814

They're not. In 30k its assault cannons since fisttemptors can walk around spamming those things.

>>50936131
Emperor's Children are good with tartaros due to sweeping shenanigans and overall focus on mobility.

Is there a tl;dr anyone can recommend that gives every legion's rough playstyle?

>>50928120
Post pics when they're posed together.

>>50937001

Just look at the legions special rules and special units and that should tell you all you should know about intended playstyles.

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>>50936832
>>50936849
>>50936876
You guys are doing it all wrong. It needs to be scary to everyone, especially people with large dicks and Muslims.

>>50937001
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Space_Marine_Legion_List_(30k)

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So im planning on running a campaign with my friends and my only requirement to join is to have a fully painted army

problem is one of them had a decently painted army but the thing was the backs of all his marines are completely unpainted (not even primed) and hes not even a bad painter either. I told him he needs to go back and finish his models before he joins the campaign and he got upset saying they were "tabletop standard" and "look good from a distance". the other guys in the my group agreed with me and I dont want to leave this guy out because he is my friend. I just feel like 30k is meant to be more thematic and every army should at least look like theyre fully painted.

Am I being a dick here or should I make him paint his shit?

>>50937139
>scatter bikes
>riptide wing
>double wraith knight
>void shield generator
>theproblemwith40k.jpeg
Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat a diiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiick

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>>50936884
>NL are scary because they are spooky chaos fuckbois, not because they are spooky chaos fuckbois
NL are only spooky to civilians sometimes not even them lmao

>making a mold of MKIV ass marines and jetbikes

DA and BA here I come

>>50937183
make him paint his shit

They don't have to be well painted, it's the principle of it. Unpainted shit is for fags.

>>50937139

All the dumbass faggots who talk shit about the ITC: this is literally the alternative. No restrictions on the WKs.

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>>50937139

>>50937226
>ITC
In this channel?

>>50937977
fan-made 40k tournament rules/FAQs

the real alternative is fostering a community that isn't made up of dickweasels

>>50938001
In Tournament Channel?

>>50938039
I don't even know, man. All I know is it's tournament nonsense some people swear by because they can't otherwise control one another.

>>50938054

Its 40k, they can't control one another.

>>50938001
>the real alternative is fostering a community that isn't made up of dickweasels
I've seen GW games die out 100% in my area at least 4 times because of player arms races that end in everyone ragequitting. Then new people show up, attempt to play each other, and engage in their own arms race that kills the game.

I think GW "balance" can only sustain up to three or so players. Each new person you add exponentially increases the chance that one of them will blow it all up.

>>50937949
>>50937226
>>50937187
See? This scares people. Paint Riptides and Wraithguards on your Batmarines.

>>50938122
Turns out the only semblance of balance that could be made was to make everyone pick a space marine legion with special stuff sprinkled on, and even then you have the odd cybernetica MC player.

>>50938162
>Ripguard Wraithtide power pajamas
Spoopy

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Saturnine Terminators when?

>>50938001

Smogon proves the ITC concept works. Only difference is Smogon limits the bans and changes only to players who prove they have the most experience and knowledge, whereas ITC is 100% democratic and based on population vote.

>>50935568
Gabriel Santar was the first captain.
But then again, Amadeus DuCaine, the very first legion master of the Xth was alive up to the void battle in the Isstvan system.

>>50935659
Santar was mortally wounded in the duel with Julius Kaesoron.

>>50938169
>then you have the odd cybernetica MC player
It takes just one Dark Angels player.

>>50938200
I'm ready.

>>50938209
>40k needs an errata to not be bonkers broken.
>30k needs an errata to have units not be shit and actually function 100%.

>>50938275

Pretty much.

>GW won't stop fucking power creeping because they're faggots
>FW won't stop erring on the side of caution and overpricing their Imperial units because they're faggots

>>50938275
>40k needs an errata to not be bonkers broken.
>30k needs an errata to have units not be shit and actually function 100%.

>Better crippled in body (30k) then corrupt in mind (40k)

>>50938275
Truly, 30k is the superior system.

>>50938261
>It takes just one legion without characters or legion specifics where many play IW and WB
Oh, then problem solved.
Cybernetica are a statistical oddity anyway.

>>50938302
>FW can't stop boosting their own units and nerfing GW units

FTFY

>>50938303
>>Better crippled in body (30k) then corrupt in mind (40k)

It's funny because 30k is the Contemptor/knight/dreadnought/walker dominated system and 40k is currently the psyker dominated system.

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>>50938275
>>50938302
>>50938303
>>50938331
>>50938370
>>50938382

>>50938364
Cybernetica isn't even that hard to deal with.

>>50938186
The spookiest.

>>50938408

I don't like having to change everything in my list just because they exist. I'd rather just make the list I wanted and not play against them.

>>50938408
Then how does one easily with cybernetica ? Because the local cybernetica player that regularly fields like 2 thanatar and almost always has enough magos to heal 6 wounds each turn has yet to lose a single game in more than half a year.

>>50938463
>>50938459
Plasma seekers, use those to take out units with magos in them. Vehicles are hard for cybernetica to deal with. Land raiders with termies can deal with thantars.

I really haven't had a problem with them. Certain primarchs can rape them, Morty in particular.

>>50938490
>Vehicles are hard for cybernetica to deal with
>S8 plasma
>S7 Lance guns
>Armourbane Magi
>S10 Ordnance Punches
>As if Cybernetica was banned from taking Myrmidons or Krios Venators
>The new Vultarax
How can Mechanicum even compete?

>>50938463
Drop pods full of xenobane vets with combiplasma. 20 shots will do 5 unsaved wounds. One dead thanatar.

Just pray they dont have occulari to grant it interceptor.

Is it just me or do blood angels look good in any armor mark?

>>50938562
Aren't they Looking Good - The Legion?

>>50938576
>Emperor's Children Players
>REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>50938534
He always has occulari for the interceptor.

>>50938490
There are vultarax on the way and when the dude knows his opponent likes to spam vehicles he brings out the myrmidons with graviton guns in transport. 8 haywire blasts will kill any vehicle.

>>50938524
You can take rapier laser batteries and put out similar firepower.

Plasma isn't going to do shit, they will be firing at infantry anyway. Lance guns are decent, but expensive and not reliable.

Armourbane magi will be in addition to a magos dominus. That magi can't join MC's either.

Punches don't really matter when they are from a ws:3 two attack platform. For almost as much as a contemptor.

Myrmidon's have short range anti-tank. Just drop some quad guns or a typhon on them. Krios ventators are good, but a deep striking melta team can put those away with ease.

Vulturax is nasty, but I'll start complaining when it has official rules.

Cybernetica is good, probably better than a few legions, but they aren't the invincible god of war that people think they are. Certain primarchs can solo cybernetica.

>>50938629
>Certain primarchs can solo cybernetica.

I guess that is one of the reasons he refuses to play against any LOW "because those are too cheesy"

>>50938609
>>50938682

Ah, he's being a faggot. Makes sense. Does he also try to say that the robots can score objectives because, "It's stupid that marines can?"

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>>50938608
Oh, I know what I said. Here, have this. Another excerpt for /HHG/ :)
ECfags on suicide watch?
>>50938629
Nobody said they were invincible, I said they were an oddity in that few "take on all corners" lists consider having to go through 6 Castellax and 6 Vorax.
On the marine-on-marine meta, the prospect of having to fight 8 MCs as enemy troops is what I would call "an oddity", which last time I checked wasn't synonim with "invincible", or how would you call it?

>>50938733
Sorry if I sounded over zealous. Maybe it's my BA privilege showing through. It's a little easier taking them on when my basic marine is wounding on a 5+

>>50938629

>some Primarchs can solo cybernetica

Im genuinely curious if that includes alpharius. Only str6 but guaranteed instant death and preferred enemy. Immune to fleshbane and poison? I guess?

>>50936884

Hrm. Well, damn. I kinda liked the MKIV with talon heads as terror sqauds.

>>50939090
if you like it, roll with it, yo

Night lords are all about duality thanks to the night haunter/konrad curze split. Some of them will go harder into the chaos juju than others.

I'm struggling to choose between the Iron Warriors and Imperial Fists for what army to start. Leaning toward IWs since the Pert model is really nice. I play Imperial Fists in 40k btw

>>50939198
IW.

>>50939189

The thing is that I'd rather have my dudes be more on the Curze side, which might be an issue I guess.

>>50938901
>>Im genuinely curious if that includes alpharius. Only str6 but guaranteed instant death and preferred enemy. Immune to fleshbane and poison? I guess?
And move through cover so no grav or phosphex shit on him.

>>50939256
Morty's teleport thing is the main reason he's such kryptonite to robutts, he can teleport out of combat and avoid being shot at by and moves like 18" minimum a turn. Alpharius is still better than the other dudes with ID like Vulkan because of his one of many, but it doesnt quite make up for Morty being one of the best general-use primarchs.

>>50938463
>Then how does one easily with cybernetica?
I personally would use a myrmidon destructor death star. Say hello to 20 shots that hit on a 2+, wound on a 2+, are AP 2, and have preferred enemy everything.

Essentially the solution is specific death star hunting units, outriders with plasma, seekers with combi-plasma, myrmidon destructors, a command squad with power fists and jump packs, etc. Thanatars individually aren't too hard to kill, I think your issue is that you need to kill them over a single turn, so while my suggestion is extreme overkill (it could drop like 3 thanatars in a single turn) the principle you stick to should be better safe than sorry.

Honestly I just like shooty death stars like my destructor tower of fuck. Get 10 myrmidon destructors and an archmagos prime myrmidax with conversion beamers for all and throw them in the tallest piece of terrain on the table. Delete one unit a turn with 11 BS 5 str 10 AP 1 small blasts with preferred enemy.

>>50939417
>I personally would use a myrmidon destructor death star. Say hello to 20 shots that hit on a 2+, wound on a 2+, are AP 2, and have preferred enemy everything.
i assume you're talking about photon thrusters? they wound castellax on 5's and thanatars on 6's, hardly an effective solution

>>50939606
No, I mean graviton imploders. Salvo 2/4 AP 2, need to roll at or above their target's armour save (so 2+ for a thanatar). Also fucks up vehicles brutally. Honestly its not the most efficient option (that would probably be usurax with power fists) but it is fun as hell, can absorb quite a bit of fire and is absolutely terrifying to face since it can easily erase death stars.

>>50938609
>He always has occulari for the interceptor.
oF COURSE HE DOES.

Fucking admech man.

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>>50936131
>>50936184

IS THIS FUCKING REAL!

>>50936131
Word Bearers. Always Sweeping Advance and bonuses means that 2+/5++ goodness helps.

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>>50936131
>>50936184
>>50939801

"Any Legion Terminator or Terminator armor equipped independent character with Legion Astartes (Imperial Fist) special rule may exchange their combi-bolter for a Vigil Pattern Storm Shield..."

Page: 30

Book: Legiones Astartes: Age of Darkness Army List.

>>50939907
Does tartaros terminator armour not count as terminator armour?

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>>50939907
I guess they cant be taken on cataphractii either

>>50939964
>>50940012
Except that the cunt forgot to mention that Cataphractii equipped models are explicitly mentioned as being able to purchase shields for 10pts rather than 15, while Tartaros - it's own named variant - isn't mentioned at all. Stay salty Fistcucks.

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>>50939964
>>50940012
>>50940039

Its listed on Forge World's and Games Workshop's website as Tartaros Terminators.

So yeah the Terminators.

>>50939964
He just left out the part that's causing the issue : "...for 15 points if equipped with standard terminator armour or for 10 points if equipped with Cataphractii Terminator armour"

The problem is that FW hasn't clarified anywhere what 'standard terminator armour' actually means. Now that there is a distiction between Indomitus and Tartaros both are listed under terminator armour with their respective names.

>>50940059
I always assumed "Terminator Armour" is just good ol Indomitus

>>50940129
Because it is. Terminator Armour is just that, Terminator Armour. If Storm Shields were intended to be taken on Tartaros, it would say so or be covered in an FAQ.

>>50934121
we've already been over this with errata anon, someone just add the errata to the OP plz.

>>50940056
Yes, Tartaros Terminator armour.

Or are you saying a Space Marine Sergeant can take options available for a Space Marine?

>>50940059

RAI in this context they mean non-Cataphractii
RAW it means Indomitus only which makes zero sense as FW doesn't even sell Indomitus for 30k so what's a "standard" terminator if not everything that's not cataphractii, i.e. Tartaros

>>50940182
>so what's a "standard" terminator if not everything that's not cataphractii, i.e. Tartaros

How is the Tartaros "standard" when it's said to be the most advanced suit and has its own rules independent of Terminator Armour? "Standard" Terminator Armour is the 2+/5++ Bulky, Relentless, can't into Sweeping suit. Be it the Indomitus, Saturnine or whatever other pattern you can think of.

>>50934549

There's eBay resellers for Forge World if you just need a bit or two. You'll pay more per model but you'll save if you absolutely just need a few smaller pieces.

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>>50940059
>>50940129
>>50940152
>>50940151
>>50940182
>>50940209

"standard Terminator armor" probably means one of two things

1. All other variants of Terminator armor that are not Legion specific (e.g. Indomitus Pattern, Tartaros Pattern and Saturnine Pattern) can take Vigil-pattern Storm Shield.

2. Only Indomitus Pattern Terminator can take Vigil-pattern Storm Shield.

Until FW decides to clear things I would lean towards answer number 1 since it makes the most sense all things considered.

>>50935065

Them's some nicely painted Iron Warriors.

>>50940209

Because we're talking about rules not fluff you dumbass

>>50940209
>Be it the Indomitus, Saturnine or whatever other pattern you can think of.

You mean like the Tartaros was for years and years until recently? It's fucking obvious what FW meant for anyone who has been in the game since book 1, they just did a shitty copy paste job and didn't update the IF rules properly. There IS NO STANDARD ARMOR ANYMORE now that Tartaros isn't standard.

>>50938733

Say what you will about the clusterfuck that is the Horus Heresy, but it does give us some great, genuine-feeling character moments. Also some great smack-talk between legions.

>>50940256
>we're talking about rules

Yeah, and I said the Tartaros has its own rules that differ from "Terminator Armour". Dumbass.

>>50940265
>You mean like the Tartaros was for years and years until recently?

Yes, "was". Now it has its own rules and fluff, so it's not the same.

>There IS NO STANDARD ARMOR ANYMORE

Then why does the legion book list Terminator Armour, Cataphractii Terminator Armour and Tartaros Terminator Armour as their own things and gives, for example, Terminator Squads the option to equip themselves with one of those 3?

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>>50940209

>it's said to be the most advanced suit

Bitch please get the fuck out of here with that shit.

>>50940329
>most advanced
>blinds itself

>>50940329
At least it isn't some sort of work in progress that turn its wearers into marines as slow as crippled old men :^)

>>50940306

Show me on the FW shop where to buy "Terminator Armor" that's not Cataphractii or Tartaros.

>>50940277

Not at the time the shield rules were written, dipshit.

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>>50925407
IXth legion terminators.

>>50940368
>Show me on the FW shop where to buy "Terminator Armor" that's not Cataphractii or Tartaros.

Right next to Legion Attack Bikes and Legion Land Speeders.

>Not at the time the shield rules were written, dipshit.

Yes, and...? That was then, this is now. You never had rules change on you?

>>50940425

You never seen GW or FW copy and paste rules and fail to properly update them? How new are you?

>>50940429
You're the one who's arguing with the old rules here, pal. What was written in the past has no meaning now, since we have new rules that say something else.

>>50940446
>that say something else

No, it says the exact same thing as the old rules, that's the point.

>>50930653
Blood Angels were fairly receptive towards librarians. The 40k codex says that the BA gene seed makes recruits more susceptible to the psyker mutation which might have been why Sanguinius was apart of the three Primarchs that first came to the Emperor with the idea of the librarius.

>>50930968
I weep for you brother

>>50940456
Yeah, and the rules for terminators have changed, as Tartaros is no longer just a Terminator armour, it's its own entry with its own rules, independent of Terminator armour.

Get the picture?

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>>50940410
Great job motherfucker.

>>50940498
>people used to only mean white people
>since you didn't specify "white and black" people post civil rights movement, you must mean only white people

>>50940498
The only picture you would get if I ever played a game against you would be the visions of my first going down your face until you admitted that Tartoros Armor is standard terminator armor because there's an obvious lag in between rules.

Pray we never meet you colossal fucking faggot.

>>50940519

The rules don't say you can punch him.

>>50940528
Its in the FAQ written on my knuckles.

>>50940533
>"Oh, really? I think I'm going to need to read tha-"

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>>50940498
>>50940519
>>50940528
>>50940533

>>50940593

Players should be required to bare knuckle box till either first blood or first knockdown instead of rolling a D6 for rules disputes.

>Don't look away, sir, I'm speaking to you
>Roll up your shirt sleeves, Queensberry rules

>>50940509
Except you have it backwards. Tartaros armour used to just be regular terminator armour. Now it has its own rules and its own name that is referenced as such in the rulebooks.

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The worst people in this hobby, among all the RAI, RAW and ITC people, are the people who exploit extremely obvious loop holes to the point that RAW people even cringe. The Tyranid MC question on wether a certain Witch fire had to roll to hit or not due to the oddness of the profile, the RAW people had a clear and valid point EVEN THOUGH RAI was right in the end.

However this is as bad as people saying Veterans of the Long War didn't work for certain Space Marines "because it doesn't explicitly say." RAW people didn't bring up that argument, it was faggots trying to gain a retarded advantage.

Standard Terminator armor used to be Tartoros, then it was given a name. This does not fucking invalidate every single rule that 5+ running and sweeping advancing terminator had. It's obvious that Virgil Pattern Storm Shields were meant to be taken with the 5+ armor because they were more than the Catafractii

Arguing whether Salamanders get their save against a baleflamer is one based on valid opinions on both sides. This is literally one side saying "the name changed so everything is invalid. Hahaha suck it faggots go trash all your Virgil Pattern Terminators because they're useless."

All because a dude on the Forgeworld Facebook gave a super generic answer, with an obvious copout because he didn't look anything up at all. The Facebook post didn't bring any clarification other than to a rule we already knew. It didn't expand upon the issues brought up in the post. There was no "because."

I usually don't care either. I even let one dude play his own magical interpretation of the rules because he was from fuck ass far away and never got to play games and he was in a hurry due to work. Protip: Rhinos as assault vehicles are OP.

But to blatantly be some kind of Cartoon villain about the rules is just pure faggotry. No one is going to seriously consider telling me "you can't use those because..." "what's standard terminator armor then?" "well it doesn't exist."

No.

>>50940660
>+1
2+/3++ that can sweep just isn't game breaking either. I'll never deny anyone it because I'm never going to be in CC with them with anything other than fodder. So what does it matter to me anyway.

>>50940660
>go trash all your Virgil Pattern Terminators because they're useless
Except they aren't. Fists are now just limited to conventional TH/SS terminators as opposed to what is essentially bulky artificer armour with a 3++.

>>50940690
Nothing melee is fucking game breaking. It's melee. Nothing about melee will ever be game breaking unless something happens in 8th edition.

>>50940509
Ok, anon, do show me where in the current rules, according to RAW, Tartaros armour counts as generic Terminator armour for the purpose of taking the shields. Because if you had that, there would be no argument. But there isn't, so your only choice is to flail your arms and go "but they could before!"

>>50940519
Here's your lack of (you), you.

>>50940782
Show me where it says I can't.

>>50940660
FW rules require a bit liberal intrepetation anyhow. The whole shield thing is nothing compared to the issues you run into when you try to play rapiers RAW.

Most important thing is to agree with regular opponents about how the vague things should work. And if that requiers a bare knuckles fistfight to settle one particular argument, then so be it :^)

>>50940507
You son of a bitch

>>50940660
>It's obvious that Virgil Pattern Storm Shields were meant to be taken with the 5+ armor

And as soon as FW corrects their mistake, you're free to take them. Otherwise you're just breaking the rules to amend your fee-fees.

>>50940817

If that's your argument, you're already wrong a billion times over. If you didn't have all those dicks in your mouth, you'd be stuck eating endless crow from all the other "well RAW says this so until they FAQ it I'm right" times you were fucking wrong and an FAQ was released.

>>50940808
You mean other than the fact that Terminator Armour and Tartaros Terminator Armour as separate entries with their own rules and this is emphasized with Terminator Squad listing their armour options as Terminator Armour, Tartaros Terminator Armour and Cataphractii Terminator Armour?

Now you show me where it says I can't use Deuagrate special rule on my bolters.

>>50940782

If "standard" terminator didn't include Tartaros, there would be no need for the word "standard" as the only terminator suits that exist are Tartaros, Cataphractii, and this supposed "standard" suit.

QED you're wrong.

>>50940851
>FW lists 3 types of terminator armour
>says a unit can pick between 3 types of terminator armour
>"there's only 2 types of armour, silly"

Are people actually this stupid?

>>50940817
It will take FW years to correct it. You know it.

That's why you're gunning so hardcore for this because you know it's a mistake and you've even admitted so. You know it will fuck over an entire Legion and make their models trash.

You're doing this for some sense of superiority. You're not doing it for "integrity of the rules." like most RAW people, because RAW people claim the rules do not make mistakes.

You're doing this for your feelings. Your intent is immoral. If you want to claim victory because you managed to fuck over people then fine, but no one will follow you or listen to you.

>>50940842
Show me where it says I can't make my guys WS9.

Does it say anywhere in RAW that I can't. Where does it say I can't change the stats of my units or my opponents units. I want a page number.

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>>50940709
This side actually has a valid point with decent intent.

Take a moment to admire this faction before going back off into the depths of autism.

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>>50940817
might I ask what Legion you play.

>>50940841
So Deathshroud now wear Indomitus?