/dcg/ Dropzone/Dropfleet Commander General

First for no one at my FLGS plays DZC/DFC and I'm going insane

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>>50920272
>finally buy ships from Hawk
>they come unpainted

I'm fucking pissed.

>>50920459
third for everyone at my FLGS apart from me plays PHR and I feel like the odd person out

>>50920483
Dirty fucking ball fondlers are everywhere, you can't escape them.

>>50920555
POST-HUMAN SUPERIORITY

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>>50920555
>my (broad)sides when UCM start thinking they can insult glorious aesthetic PHR

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>>50920272
Seventh for not posting bestgirl.
>Ballfondler best faction.

>>50920468
Sheltari pls go and stay go

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Just bought sheltari fleet starter and diamond battleship.

Ship of the line tactics about to hit my flgs and they won't know what hit them.

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>>50920925
>Ship of the line tactics about to hit my flgs and they won't know what hit them.
Let me guess, they're all playing UCM or PHR?

Show those primitives who the true dunkmaster is, fellow starchief.

>>50920945
yeup. I am loving the combo of range/shields or punchy/rape.

>>50921245
How have shields been working out? Have they given you a significant advantage? Or is it off set by the low armor.

>>50921633
I'm playing torPHR.
Shaltari saves 40-60% of my "guaranteed" torpedo crit damage.
>It is still worth it.
>Tennisball tells me so.

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>mfw trying to come up with names for my fleet including a massive swarms of Djinn.

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>>50922275
>Breaker Grindylow
>Breaker Vodyanoy
>Breaker Moray
>Breaker Krait
>Breaker Caribe

Picking an aquatic swarm predator or mythical shoreside ambusher and slapping a chuuni ocean term in front of it doesn't seem too hard.

The really challenge is writing a name like Abhorrent Dunkleosteus legibly onto a BB nameplate sticker.

>>50922275
>Chuck
>Jack
>Danny
>Roger
>Big Vic
>Lil' Vic
>Jimmy
>TJ
There. Names enough for 8 Djinns.

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>>50920643
>"best girl"
>some half-human nobody
>not the undisputed best girl

Try again, friend.

>>50922684
Half human is better than not human at all, jelly filth.

>>50922724
arguably we're plenty human, we've just got a few extra bits.
Just like you.

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>>50920643
>tfw no art skills with which to contribute spherical waifus

>>50922749
I'm UCM, dirty jelly. No extra bits on me. But I'll help even abandonist scum against you parasites.

Are people still waiting on their kickstarter stuff? I know I am.

>>50923015
Reporting in.

>>50923015
I have two Commodore pledges I'm waiting on.

>>50923015
Commodore plus extras here. Definitely getting antsy with no word.

>>50923015
>>50923035
>>50923111
>>50923275
Hopefully the mandatory Christmas/New Year stall shouldn't last into next week.

Has there been any word outside the updates? When I got my Commodore delivered to me out in the middle of nowhere at the start of the month, I figured Hawk was on the home stretch for fulfillment.

p10 bump

>>50923431

They are supposed to be near done. Of KS people there are a bunch that had the wrong info on their address columns or didn't input things right. There are also those that Hawk some how lost track off.

Late Backers are a different story and people with order problems. It looks like Hawk still has some work ahead.

Djinns or Harpys...

Looking at the command bases from model exchange...

can't see how they're not better in every way than the ones that come with the sets.

Thoughts?

>>50926525
Probably Djinns. Harpies are okay but they lack a real role in the fleet. Providing more attacks for flanking teams sort of wastes the atmospheric ability and they don't have the shots to go atmos fishing themselves. Djinns on the other hand are very shooty CA ships that roll lots of dice and can hide away in atmosphere on approach. Simple and effective.

>>50926554
I don't like them personally but I see the appeal. After Warmachine I just don't want to have to deal with all those fucking tokens. The normal bases work fine for everything but damage.

>>50926554

I don't think I like them. They are much to loud and don't fix enough stuff. As the other anon said, it is just damage that is the problem. While putting little dice in the slot is easier it is not pay money easier.

Czech my meme list

--------------------------------------
750 Scourge - 740pts
Scourge - 0 launch assets

SR15 Line battlegroup (270pts)
3 x Strix - 270pts - M

SR7 Pathfinder battlegroup (169pts)
1 x Chimera - 105pts - M
2 x Gargoyle - 64pts - L

SR7 Pathfinder battlegroup (301pts)
5 x Djinn - 215pts - L
2 x Djinn - 86pts - L
------------- dflist.com -------------

Finally got my name's all picked out after a lot of hemming and hawing. Now I just gotta figure out how to get them on bases. Has anyone tried using label makers or is everyone just painting them on?

>>50928094
Probably just going to print some name stickers at work - my hand isn't steady enough to freehand lettering.

>>50923015
I'm missing my launch assests
that's about it.
i should email hawk about that.
>>50925970
shit really?
are we that slow or did /tg/ pick up speed?

>>50928185
There was talk about someone making a sticker generator so the text would wrap around the base. Hopefully someone that is tech savvy can gen on up.

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So I got a guy selling a Resistance lot for DZC, but he's tossing in 4 Hellhogs and wont part the rest out. How likely am I to ever use 4 of the things?

Dont get me wrong, I love Space Not-A10, but 4 seems a bit excessive.

>>50928874

Is one of them Karl? You really need 2 at most.

You could use the rest as terrain pieces.

>>50928874
Could crash 'em and make scatter terrain.

>>50928874
if it's still a really good deal you could always just try selling on the Hellhogs yourself or make them into scenery or something.

>>50928874
if I was ever going to use 4 of a fast mover the hellhog is it, but I believe it is a rare choice so at most you could use 2 at clash (1500 ish points) or 3 at battle (2001+ points) Unless you take Karl Foley (not a bad idea hes pretty OP)

So basically yes 4 is excessive

>>50929329
>>50929043
>>50929036
>>50929022
Well, the guy's asking $150 for a resistance starter, rulebook, command card deck, 4 hellhogs and three blisters of Cyclones (which I will likely be using 4 of). So it's a good deal, and I'm likely gonna pick it up, but I just couldn't see using 4 hellhogs ever. All still in blisters too.

Now, I could convert one of the hellhogs into Foley, since he doesn't seem that much different (what, some missile pods and a paint job).

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So this question has probably been answered many times before, but what's a decent configuration using:

-the PHR starting fleet (3 cruisers, 4 frigates)
+1 cruiser
+2 frigates

and assuming I can convert any corvettes or dropships required, and that I'd prefer not to buy any additional ships.


I backed this KS solely for the models, so I really don't give a fuck if the final fleet is optimal, but I'd at least like to have something that's not horrible on the table if a game is ever available.

>>50930175
Well, I usually suggest just going for whatever the starter fleet picture shows, but I'd swap out the Theseus for an Orion, given a choice. The Theseus is perfectly decent, but the Orion has never let me down.

As for the extra, not sure - I love me some Orpheus Troopship, but the Ganymede has it's own pro's and cons as well.

Frigates, minimum 2 Europa, 2 Medea. I'm assuming you mean two sprues extra? In that case, another pair of Medea's at least. The other 6 frigates is kind of a crapshoot, since they're all situational. I like Andromeda's, for the extra PD or odd bomber they can dump out, but a trio of Pandora's can ruin someone's day really easily. Plus, there's the Calypso, which sounds great on paper, but it's only one attack per turn, which doesn't mean a great deal when you've got a horde of CAW'ing little Scourge shits descending upon you.

>>50930175
I'd say:
Bellerophon
Orion
Ajax
Theseus
3x Medea
3x Europa OR 3x Pandora OR 3x Andromeda, depending on your preference

>>50930538
Alternately; if you go with the 3x Andromeda, you could replace the Bellerophon with an Achilles.

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>>50930372
>>50930538
>>50930745

Thanks!

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>Rolling 2 1's on my Wyverns plasma weapon
I mean 6 scalding shots is cool, but still

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>>50931160
GOOD
NO FUN FOR JELLIES

Question to the UCM fleets
Any thoughts on

252 Beijing
195 Avalon
163 Moscow
105 Rio
105 Berlin
105 Berlin ( 925

79 (madrid)
132 (seattle)
111
111 sanfran x2 - 433

35x6 - toulon -210 - 568
39x4 - taipei -156
37 x2- lima - 74
4x 32- NO. -128

-1926
+40 for UCM commodore
1966

As a total fleet setup? I'l have to cut it down a bit for a 1500 sized force, but this is what I feel like building with what I have. Thoughts?

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>>50933775
>mfw fucking Shaltari

>>50933870
How come we never see other tribes in the art? It's always the orange scheme.

>>50934412
primitive optics cannot discern the subtle variations in shade that signify a thousand years of history.

>>50934412
Same reason PHR are always tan, UCM are always green and scourge are always purple in the art.

Scourge question: is there any good reason why I would want a Scylla when I could just have more of literally any other frigate?

>>50934607
You've got enough combat power in your cruisers and want to have some fun memeing about with atmos sniping.

They're not all that bad of a frigate; effectively a Toulon with one less attack, but can sit in atmos and plink away. Excellent for taking out stragglers in a brawl in LO.

Where the fuck do I find command cards?

So, is there a consolidated list of slang/jargon?

HO: High Orbit
LO: Low Orbit
Atmo: Atmosphere
OB: Orbital Bombardment

>>50934642
the mind of Dave.
They'll be released next year, probably quite early on.

>>50934642
They're not out yet.

>>50934704
lol so why are they talked about in the hawk forums and stuff?

>>50934726
They might be on about the DZC command cards, which are out.

>>50934682
CAW: Close action weapon
PD: Point defense
PHR: Goddamn ball fondlers

>>50934642
In the trash, where they belong.

>>50934841
>PHR: New Hotness

Ftfy, to go along with:
UCM: Old and Busted

>>50934841
>>50935024
PHR: Paint Huffing Retards

>>50934841
>>50935024
UCM: Useless Crying Monkeys
PHR: Pitiful Hopeless Robots

>>50934607
Because they're fucking annoying to deal with. They don't do great damage, because if they did they'd be completely busted. Scyllas can effectively operate with impunity unless your opponent wants to waste corvettes on them.

Evening bump.

Tonight I have discovered that I am shit at painting DZC infantry.

>>50938188
Metal or plastic?

>>50934514
Yeah, but those are at least somewhat unified. It seems weird only this one tribe has a part in reconquest.

>tfw no time to finish ships asap
>tfw fb feed full of glorious first impressions from locals

skirmish list I have been playing with

--------------------------------------
skirmish - 499pts
Shaltari - 0 launch assets

SR10 Vanguard battlegroup (165pts)
1 x Jet - 165pts - H

SR7 Line battlegroup (130pts)
1 x Emerald - 100pts - M
2 x Voidgate - 30pts - L

SR5 Pathfinder battlegroup (204pts)
2 x Amethyst - 96pts - L
3 x Glass - 108pts - L

>>50939690
Both. Although after bashing my head against these Legionnaires, they're looking a bit better.

Rules errata when /DCG/?

>>50943163
/dcg/-specific homebrew rules errata when

Is there a scan of Reconquest Phase 1 in the OP links? It might be my sleep-addled state, but I'm not seeing it.

>>50943423
Yeah, it's under
>DZC rules, units, errata, etc.

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Ok guys. I just got my PHR Battleship and by tennisball I've never seen so much flesh on a single model before. Pieces that you have to carefully align with each other have flesh seamlessly jutting out at asymetrical angles preventing you from actually connecting them; but to remove them would be to surely ruin the perfectly smooth intended piece.

>Life is suffering under tennisball.
>But I will perservere.
>There is also no build instructions.

>>50943598
time to start shaving with an xacto knife.

>>50943598

J e w e I e r s f i l e

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>>50943454
Well guess who feels retarded for missing the blatantly obvious.

>>50943598

I wish I had your problems, anon.

>>50938188
Paint a bit of base color everywhere.
Wash.
Touch-up.

>>50945151
>scourge/10

Looking at the Deep Cut Dropfleet mats.

Which one would you get if you were to grab one, and why?

>>50946099
The Earth and the dunes. They match the cradle worlds and colonies the best.

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>>50946099
The new night time one gets me hard.

>>50946461
Why would there be lights????

Unless you are attacking a colony....JELLY SCUM!

>>50946862
Scourge do operate industrial centers.

>>50947346
Yea but wouldn't that many lights indicate a bustling city? Do Scourge even have those?

>>50949221
all those billions of hosts, both military and industrial have to live somewhere. Bodies are still human, so they still have human needs for shelter, sleep, food, etc. It'd make sense for them to have cities, even if they're put to entirely different purpose.

>>50949221
Scourge, or at least their host bodies, probably still need light to see.

PHR Fleet - 1500pts
PHR - 8 launch assets

SR16 Flag battlegroup (322pts)
1 x Calypso - 37pts - L
1 x Heracles - 285pts - S

SR11 Vanguard battlegroup (217pts)
1 x Bellerophon - 180pts - H
1 x Calypso - 37pts - L

SR10 Line battlegroup (230pts)
2 x Ikarus - 230pts - M

SR14 Line battlegroup (367pts)
1 x Ajax - 100pts - M
4 x Europa - 160pts - L
1 x Orion - 107pts - M

SR7 Pathfinder battlegroup (208pts)
1 x Orpheus - 130pts - M
2 x Medea - 78pts - L

SR4 Pathfinder battlegroup (156pts)
2 x Medea - 78pts - L
2 x Medea - 78pts - L
------------- dflist.com -------------

How many strike carriers are too much? I feel like I should try and reorganize this to have more pew pew.

All you anons who have already had a chance to play, do us a solid and tell us how you transport your ship. I was looking at chessex figure cases at my lgs, but I'm not certain they're large enough.

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>got one of every battlecruiser
>could have just ordered a pile of Leonids
This bottom hull is the sexiest BC add-on by far, and I could have had a pile of spare heavy maneuvering fins to plug on to my heavy cruisers. Regretssss

>>50951162
Maybe drop two Medeas and try to fit another troopship in there? That would give you a heftier second wave to draw attention away from the carriers.

Armor is really nice, but triple infantry drops are pretty lulzy for putting a cluster under your control.

>>50951162
Your troop numbers are good. 6 is a good strike carrier number if you're only going for 1 troopship.

Not so sure about those Ikaruses though. They're best used in broadside battlegroups imo, launch assets can't benefit from lower strategy rating so there's not that much point having them alone. Sometimes Ajaxes like to be alone.

>>50951362
Post pics of bottom hull.
>Dat posterior

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>>50952864
>posterior
>bottom hull
It's ventral you illiterate baseline; dorsal for top, ventral for bottom, posterior for rear, anterior for front.

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>>50952864
Leonidas is a thick lady.

>>50953068
I'm talking about butts.
Bottoms are synonyms for butts.
>Was talking about bottom hull.
>I was implying it was the ship's butt equivalent
I was making a joke, not being illiterate you pungari-lover.

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>>50953362
>>50952864
>>50953068

Gentlemen! You can't fight in here! This is a wargame thread!

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>>50953384
pretty good bro nice reference

hows this 1100 pt scourge list what can i do to tweak it (dont have any more cruisers or larger to add just fiddle with frigates)

>>50953432
--------------------------------------
Scourge 1100 - 1059pts
Scourge - 0 launch assets

SR15 Flag battlegroup (260pts)
1 x Daemon - 260pts - S

SR10 Vanguard battlegroup (170pts)
1 x Shenlong - 170pts - H

SR6 Line battlegroup (137pts)
1 x Chimera - 105pts - M
1 x Gargoyle - 32pts - L

SR7 Line battlegroup (174pts)
2 x Gargoyle - 64pts - L
1 x Ifrit - 110pts - M

SR2 Pathfinder battlegroup (84pts)
2 x Harpy - 84pts - L

SR8 Pathfinder battlegroup (234pts)
3 x Djinn - 129pts - L
1 x Wyvern - 105pts - M
------------- dflist.com -------------

woops forgot my list

>>50953432
That's a pretty serious stealth skew.

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>>50953384
FULL SPEED AHEAD

>>50953441
Fuck, my joke was too slow. Now I actually have to critique the list.

I'd put the Ifrit in with those Harpies. You want at least some of your strike carriers to be in a very low SR battlegroup so they can activate first. I'm not sure 2 Harpies are going to do that much without cruiser support anyway.
Otherwise it seems good.

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>>50953293
>mfw my Leonidas ventral hull was warped nearly 45 degrees

HOW BOUT DAT QUALITY CONTROL THERE HAWK

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>>50953444

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I AM THE FUCKING STRONG
BASELINE

My Heracles wings was sorta bent out of shape and made of resin; anyone have any newbie friendly tips on reshaping resin?
Force? Soak in hot water, then bend?

>>50955462
Soak in hot water for like a minute, then take out and let cool. It will reshape to its original cast.

>>50955462
I boiled a kettle of water and poured some over the wings after a couple minutes, straightened them, then ran some cold water over while still holding it. Worked like a charm.

Dropfleet commander? More like PHR commander!

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>>50955695
Don't be such a square, anon.

Is this enough objective power for Skirmish?

Why yes, I will gladly pay less than a strike carrier to staple a troop ship to the anti frigate cruiser I was planning to take

PHR Tournament 999 - 990pts
PHR - 8 launch assets

SR11 Vanguard battlegroup (217pts)
1 x Bellerophon - 180pts - H
+ Fleet Vizier (20pts, 2AV)
1 x Calypso - 37pts - L

SR15 Line battlegroup (337pts)
1 x Orion - 107pts - M
2 x Ikarus - 230pts - M

SR7 Pathfinder battlegroup (208pts)
1 x Orpheus - 130pts - M
2 x Medea - 78pts - L

SR7 Pathfinder battlegroup (208pts)
1 x Orpheus - 130pts - M
2 x Medea - 78pts - L

>>50956773
You are a bit low on guns.

>>50956773
>2 troopships and 4 strike carriers at 999 points
I'd go a max of either 2 troops, 2 strike, or 1 troop 4 strike. If you get rid of a troopship, replace it with an Ajax. If you get rid of some Medeas, a Calypso or two would not be untoward.

>>50958890
>Calypsos in games that doesn't run torpedoes or shaltari "i crit u lol" lasers.
i wouldn't reccomend that over basic Europas.

>>50958890
I'd be interested in the memes of Oprheii being used to excess in place of actual gunships in a small list.

Three Orpheus, no medea, and then more guns.

>>50959289
Without armor it will be hard to contest the ground though.

>>50959489
Orpheii are pretty good at 6 fishing for strike carriers, I thought, and three infantry are still liable to at least slow armor down. I suppose you could fit a medea or two in there, but then points starts to be an issue...

>>50959588
>>50959489

You will legit get curb stomped on key objectives without armor.

There is also the too many eggs in one basket thing as one Orpheus down loses you a lot of objective claiming power and means you can only work to contest maybe two clusters at best.

in the starter fleets how are the groups laid out?

trying to play a game using proxies while I wait for my models to get here

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> tfw trying to position Moscow-chan's guns so that she doesn't look terrible
I've failed her ._.

>>50962536
Bro magnets

>>50962027
I cant say for the shaltari, the other factions go like this:

UCM:
Moscow
2x New Orleans

Berlin
2x Toulon

Seattle

Scourge:
Shenlong
2x Gargoyle

Ifrit
2x Harpy

Wyvern

PHR:
Hector
2x Medea

Theseus
2x Europa

Ikarus


Its possible in the PHR setup that the theseus and ikarus could change spots.

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>>50962809
You overestimate my competence.

So, symmetrical scourge wings, or try to slant them to give a swimming fish impression?

>>50963124
cheers man, can't wait for my models to get here, but there are literally no starter sets left in Australia

>>50963186
>the boat capsizes

>>50963203
I almost bought one before Christmas but I wasn't really interested in the jellies and I fucked up and bought the rulebook before realizing that the starter came with a full one, not a cut down one like most starters do.
by the time I got home from my trip they'd sold out.
But that's ok, there are still PHR starters in stock at Aetherworks (the official distro for hawk wargames) so at least I can go fondle some balls.

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Help me by telling me in detail how hard I ducked up my priming, /dcg/.

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>>50963800
>primed bases

>>50963800
It has an extremely gritty texture; what's the temperature/humidity where you are?

Also, sand those flash lines, admiral.

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>>50963943
Nothing wrong with primed bases. I paint mine to give them more contrast and so you can see the arcs and facings more clearly for turning.

>>50963990
But where's her name, anon?

>>50964066
Pending development of a 'print a name' template, so I can give proper names to all the ships.

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Forgive me my spamming, I'm sick at home on NYE with only my spaceships for company.

>>50963990
I was thinking about doing the same. That is a smooth coat of paint on those bases

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I decided to turn my Atlantis into a pocket battleship, help me stay it

>>50964377
*stat it

>>50964377
A better pocket battleship would have been if you had used the Avalon's double medium turret nacelles and a beam for the dorsal mount, but this looks cool too.

>Camelot class heavy battlecruiser
>6" scan, 6" sig, 7" thrust, 16 hull, 3+ armor, 7 PD, 1 group, H tonnage, Rare
>UF-4200 mass driver turret; 4+ lock, 2 attack, 1 damage, F/S(L)
>UF-4200 mass driver turret; 4+ lock, 2 attack, 1 damage, F/S(R)
>UF-6400 mass driver turrets; 4+ lock, 4 attack, 1 damage, F/S,
>UF-6400 mass driver turrets; 4+ lock, 4 attack, 1 damage, F/S, linked-1
>UF-6400 mass driver turrets; 4+ lock, 4 attack, 1 damage, F/S, linked-1
>Shark Missile Bays; 4+ lock, D6+1 attack, 1 damage, F/S/R, Close Action

Launch 3
>fighters and bombers


In other news, the Atlantis' four heavy turrets really ought to have been linked, or the same profile.

>>50964377
Not that anon, but

Scan Sig Thrust Hull A PD Launch - 3
8" 8" 8" 14 3+ 7

UF-4200 4+ FS(L)
UF-4200 4+ FS(R)
UF-6400 3+ FS
UF-6400 3+ FS Linked
UF-6400 3+ FS Linked
Shark Missile Bay 4+ D6+1 1 FSR Close Action

Points = 220

>>50964452

We were thinking the same thing lol.

>>50964377
Dunno, still looks like a BB to me.

>>50964490
CC*, should not shippost when drunk

>>50964452
>>50964487
>Zion class heavy battlecruiser
>6" scan, 6" sig, 7" thrust, 16 hull, 3+ armor, 7 PD, 1 group, H tonnage, Rare

>UF-4200 mass driver turrets; 4+ lock, 4 attack, 1 damage, F/S(L)
>UF-4200 mass driver turrets; 4+ lock, 4 attack, 1 damage, F/S(R)
>Cobra Heavy Laser; 3+ lock, 2 attack, 1 damage, F(N), Burnthrough(6), Flash
>UF-6400 mass driver turrets; 4+ lock, 4 attack, 1 damage, F/S, linked-1
>UF-6400 mass driver turrets; 4+ lock, 4 attack, 1 damage, F/S, linked-1
>Shark Missile Bays; 4+ lock, D6+1 attack, 1 damage, F/S/R, Close Action

>>50964452
6400s are 3+ lock. 8 3+ shots on standard orders in addition to a respectable launch value would be a bit much.

>>50964557
>respectable launch value
UCM launch is trash across the board.

>>50964557
Make it a 4x heavy mass driver turret farm with bloom, for the fact that it's semi-weapons free every turn.

>>50964452
>>50964557
>>50964519
Ah yeah, I forgot about that. Sorry.
3 launch value with UCM launch assets aren't really "respectable" though, I'd say. They're there, but it's not much except for fighters.

>>50964490
Thats kinda the point of PBs, cruiser tonnage, BB gunnage.

>>50964580
If you did this, I'd put it on the Avalon too. I'm still miffed that the Avalon doesn't get anything special from all those guns being in the same bank.

>>50964601
The secondaries are fine the way they are. It Gives you a reason to weapons free when you've lined up a laser shot on a double activation: 8x medium mass driver shots is actually an entirely decent attack when combined with the uber-laser.

Perhaps for the Atlantis, if it had alt-modes: Either you're firing 4 turrets (8 attacks) and getting bloom, or you're firing 2 in an alt-mode like normal.

It'd provide a good benefit over a Moscow, which is already such a good little package of death.

>>50964570
>>50964587
Having worse launch assets than everybody else doesn't mean they're useless. +9 PD can save your life, and if the fighters aren't needed then I'm not going to pass up 6 extra 3+ shots even if they're vulnerable to PD.

>>50964601
What? The Avalon gets double the number of shots on each side due to having double the number of medium guns on each side, much like the battleships. It makes a good deal of sense.

>>50964689
I like it, but the alt rules may not work properly with weapon free, for example;

>UF-6400 mass driver turrets; 3+ lock, 4 attack, 1 damage, F/S, alt-1
>UF-6400 mass driver turrets; 3+ lock, 4 attack, 1 damage, F/S, alt-1
>UF-6400 mass driver turrets; 3+ lock, 8 attack, 1 damage, F/S, alt-1, bloom

When weapons free, you'd only be able to fire one bank of two turrets. A solution would to only have one of the half-banks have the alt, but then you could fire 12 shots on weapons free.
A final solution is to simply add an addendum saying that the 8 attack profile cannot be used during weapons free.

>>50964842
>UF-6400 mass driver turrets; 3+ lock, 4 attack, 1 damage, F/S, alt-1
>UF-6400 mass driver turrets; 3+ lock, 4 attack, 1 damage, F/S, alt-2
>UF-6400 mass driver turrets; 3+ lock, 8 attack, 1 damage, F/S, alt-1&2, bloom
iirc there was already something similar in DZC and that's how they dealt with it.

>>50964842
alt already works properly with weapons free.
You choose which alt profile to fire, plus then any other guns you have such as the secondaries. You'd select the one with the most shots and bloom, then pick any other weapons you'd like to fire.

Weapons free doesn't let you get around Alt limitations, like on the Scourge lasers.

>>50964827
>What? The Avalon gets double the number of shots on each side due to having double the number of medium guns on each side, much like the battleships. It makes a good deal of sense.
Sorry, I meant to say Atlantis. I always get the two names mixed up.

>>50964851
Ah, that makes more sense.

>>50964912
Ah, that makes more sense.

I'm willing to wait until we get the Johannesburg design, the layout of guns may make more sense there. Remember that Atlantis is little more than a prototype thrown together with a cruiser chassis.

>>50963990
Ok those bases look fucking sexy as only tennisball can.
Do you need to prime the bases to paint on them?
I ask because I'm new.

HAPPY NEW YEARS /dcg/
IT'S MIDNIGHT IN THE MOST IMPORTANT CITY IN THE MOST IMPORTANT NATION IN THE WORLD

>>50965503
>Denmark?

>>50965374
Yep. Put black primer (Duplicolor Sandable Black IMO is best, it's cheap and effective), then paint layers over with 30% diluted paint.

>>50965509
>Denmark
>a country

I'm just getting into DZC after selling all my 40k stuff, I played a very elite Tau army and I was wondering what /TG/ would recommend if I liked the tanky and killy playstlye of them, this is for both DZC and DFC.

>>50965586
PHR.

>>50965586
There's really only one faction in DZC that is both dead 'ard and dead killy, and that's the PHR.

In DFC, you could go either UCM or PHR.
UCM is arguably killier than PHR (at least until those double broadsides start flying), but the PHR is much 'arder by a long shot.
Scourge are the absolute dead killiest in DFC, though.

>>50965561
How do you dilute paint 30% and you mean layer paint?
I don't know if diluting paint is fancy or if you just take 7cl of paint and 3cl of water.

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How accurate is this?

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>>50965794
Well, it's something you sorta have to learn by doing. Since 90% of paints are way, way too thick to just straight apply, most folks recommend diluting on a palette until it reaches the consistency of milk, and then applying it in those thin "layers" until you get the color you're looking for. By doing so, the coat ends up smooth, and you get a much better color (and using much less paint than if you'd just glommed it on straight from the bottle).

Best way to figure the consistency is to just practice. Youtube does help though - Duncan on the Games Workshop channel is great for beginners, and can get you up to a good level pretty quickly. Just search Duncan GW and you should find it.
Also, his glorious dulcet tones are very easy to listen to, dripping into the ear like golden linguistic honey.

>>50965893
And to clarify, you dilute paint with water or a medium liquid. The latter is better, but water works just fine.

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>>50965893
I used GW's chaos black as basecoat for my PHR.
I just usally dab ceramite white directly from the box unto the model, usually in multiple layers, to get it proper white.
>I'm looking forward to getting some actual advice from the internet though.

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>Finally decide on paint scheme for PHR, finish a Juno
>Get the blending just right on the smooth hull
>Super happy with myself
>Go to seal it, realize I forgot to paint the bottom inside treads
>Glaring white unpainted bits

FUCK

>>50965876
DFC Scourge isn't that much less tough. Same with DFC Shaltari thanks to shields.
DFC Scourge has more fuckery, as do DZC Scourge (screamers and the like).
DFC UCM has the least Fuckery, with Scourge and PHR having a teeny bit more.

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>>50966051
Bada boom

>>50965992
Going from black to white is a bitch (which is why I take the bitch route and basecoat white).
Best bet is to work your way up to white, going through the grays, mixing a bit more white into your grays until you can get from that color to white without the grey bleeding through. It takes longer, but it'll look ten times better. Just take your time.

>>50965876
Shaltari toughness is hard to pin down. They're pathetic with shields down but tough as hell with shields up. Shaltari 4+ saves are better than everyone else's 3+ saves in most cases thanks to the ability to ignore crits. The fuckery rating is so high that it's interfering with the other stats.

DZC PHR should be slow, but they're really not right now with all those Valks, Apollos and skimmers.

In DFC UCM and PHR are pretty much exactly the same speed. Same with Scourge and Shaltari.

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>>50966214
>The fuckery rating is so high that it's interfering with the other stats.
I need this pasted over a pic of a smug Shaltari

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>>50966214
>>50966333

>>50965608
>>50965620

Alright in that case what's a good way to pick units for both DZC and DFC? I'm going to be picking up all the books for them.

>>50966484
getting the starter set for a faction in either game setting is a great place to start.

In DZC you can expand that starter set with a command unit, and then some more specialist units that take your fancy. For the PHR you should get a Hades, because its an awesome model.

DFC expansion is trickier, basically at this point just buy more cruisers and frigates then make what you think is neat.

>>50966484
Well, assuming you're from the US, aside from the sites listed in the OP (miniaturemarket.com and thewarstore.com), you can cruise Ebay for army deals (the starters are often cheap on there for DZC), or you can hit up Bartertown - Btown can be hit or miss, but the hit's can sometimes be some really amazing deals. Just depends on how lucky you are, and what you're looking for.

>>50966484
For DZC? You're better off just buying units wholesale off the online retailer of your choice; the starter set is really only good for the walkers and the dropships, because the infantry are utter shit quality when not in metal, and PHR generally don't use their APCs.

For DFC, two or three starter fleets will be enough to get you going. Maybe a frigate pack if you want some variety.

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So, for DZC PHR, how much AA am I going to need at 1500pts? 2 Phobos and an Athena don't really seem like enough. Maybe some Helios? But then it seems like I'm heading down the path of having too much.

>>50966754
remember there are two starter sets for DZC, a resin one, and a plastic one, the resin one has metal infantry and is much higher quality. Although it is also about 50% more expensive

>>50966825
no Two phobos, a pair of helios, and an athena is probably about right, might be able to throw in one more unit like a single phobos

>>50966825
Generally speaking, you want a "unit" of AA per 500 points.
For the PHR, a unit of AA is:
2 Phobos
2 Helios
1 Athena

So you would want 3 units of AA, +/- .5 to 1.
You could get away with 2 Phobos and an Athena, but replacing the FM with 2 Helios (or 2 more Phobos) would probably be a better idea, since FM are so unreliable.
3 Phobos and 2 Helios is probably the most AA you'd need, unless your opponent is going really air heavy (read: UCM)

>>50966830
True, but the savings aren't as good as the plastic, and it may not be worth it if you don't want the APC's.

>>50966862
>>50966845
Hrm, thanks for the advice. The folks I'll be playing against are UCM, PHR and Resistance - not too worried about the PHR guy, but the Resistance guy just loves his helicopters, Hellhogs, barrel bombers and Lifthawks. And those chaingun helicopters scare the dick off me.

>>50966914
Yeah, 4 Phobos and 2 Helios (or even better, 2 Phobos and 4 Helios) would not be untoward, if you can spare the points.

>>50966937
Leaning more towards the 2 Phobos 4 Helios.

Also considering walking on the 2 Phobos, just so I have some sort of AA on Turn 1. Not likely he'll get Hellhogs out Turn 1, but it is possible, and it's be a bitch to lose a transport or two because I assumed I was safe.

I've had a friend who did not play much in way of wargames before try DFC and Infinity about the same time. Apparently DFC rules, despite some issues, are far more entertaining than the "one-shot one-kill random nonsense" of infinity. And he likes Scourge, which means he'll have steady source of cheap models since no one locally does.

>>50968511
If your friend can't handle Infinity, prepare to groan when he whines about ships getting focus-fired down into debris when he messes up and positions them terribly.

>>50970545
>>50968511
I actually though it was kinda tricky to kill people in infinity from the tiny amount i read of the rules, is it actually rather easy like that? If so DFC like >>50970545 said is going to be unfun, I think you could easily one turn battleships down in a larger game no problem.

>>50970545
Actually, he is absolutely fine with that aspect, we've had some games of DFC already. The high number of wounds on a ship makes it less likely to be one-shot randomly even when you do everything right. I can understand that position, coming from boardgaming background he expects the game to not go down to blind luck like Infinity FtF does so often.

>>50970626
The thing in Infinity is that most troops have only a single wound and most shoot-outs will have both sides with at least some chance to score that hit.
Basic grunts have about a 50% chance to take a wound from a basic infantry weapon hit in cover.

In fact, a lot of the tactical challenge in the game is to outflank the enemy and use appropriate specialists to seriously swing the odds in your favour so you don't get screwed over by an unlucky exchange of fire.

>>50970626
>I actually though it was kinda tricky to kill people in infinity from the tiny amount i read of the rules, is it actually rather easy like that?

No, not really. Not if you're playing well.

The game is however like Dropfleet in that positioning is key. You need to place your assets in both games very carefully, setting up situations where it's hard for the enemy to focus their fire on single units, or where doing so would be impractical for them as it would mean moving their stuff into a difficult position.

Example: battleships have larger signatures, so it's easier to focus fire them. The solution is to make it so other things are more immediately threatening, or that getting into range would mean exposing yourself to some withering return-fire. You shouldn't be popping a high signature every turn, only when you have to, and, conversely, you should be positioning so that your enemy has to light up with special orders if they want to hurt you significantly.

>>50970626
People die very quickly in Infinity. A significant part of the strategy is being able to think on your feet when everything goes horribly wrong and your main shooty guy ends up dead because he botched a FtF roll. Always have a backup plan for your backup plans.

DFC doesn't have so much of that. Even basic frigates take at least 2 successful hits to bring down.

>>50970852
I dunno you can have a frigate go down to a single weapon system attack from a ship, for most of them you only need to do 2 damage then crippling damage can do the rest.

For example I had my moscow die roll a 7, with 4" of blast range, nuke a europa, who was the only one in range, the europa rolled a 5, and plinked her sister ship which also exploded, dealing 3 damage to a nearby theseus.

>>50971170
Yeah, the catastrophic/crippling system does have a deceptively high chance of really fucking shit up, especially with frigate swarms.

>>50971212
This is one of the reasons why you should never really give up in DFC. A single well-timed and well-placed crippling roll can completely change the shape of a match.

Everyone I have played a demo starter game with has always sent both their strike carriers to the same cluster initially. This pretty much ensures they lose the game regardless of how many casualties they inflict on my fleet.

Has anyone else noticed this with newish people they teach to play DFC?

>>50971599
Absolutely, I also notice them doing things like going full thrust on their first turn.

>>50966825
I never take less than 4 phoboses in any lineup.
In 1500pt matches I usually take 6, 2 being walk-on in case of turn 1 Extreme mover shenanigans.

The Phobos is also excelent at hitting buildings and killing infantry and other light vehicles.

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>>50972315
Makes sense. Plus, while E7 isn't great, it's enough to pop the lighter vehicles if there's nothing flying nearby. I'll have to tool my list a bit.

Side note, I magnetized my first dropship. However, the magnets didn't seat straight, and now everything attached to it is crooked and lopsided.

I have made the short bus of aerial transports.

>>50971620
i could understand the wrong use of special orders, but the not trying to take as many objectives as possible just seems weird, perhaps i was not clear enough about how point scoring was done.

>>50972775
I think they are generally under the impression that they need to really super reinforce points they have.

It takes a while for people to realize how hard it is to bombard troops out of a zone.

So, over and over, my understanding for the scourge was to prime platemail metal, then go over repeatedly with washes to get it the color you want while preserving the metallic undersheen. This makes a certain amount of sense, and I adore the metallic-organic look they have.

Having just attempted to do so, I've determined that A, washes go on hideously thin, B, they group up on all the detail not the swathes of clear surface (exactly like washes are supposed to) and C, aaaaaaagh I'm ruining my pretty spaceships oh god help

Can anyone advise if my premise is wrong here?

>>50973581
A)
That's a good thing, put on lots of layers
B)
You need more layers, just build it up
C)
If they do end up looking like shit, just dunk them in 91% isopropyl for a few hours and scrub them off with a toothbrush; the plastic will be good as new.

>>50973581

You weren't suppose to just use any old wash. You use ghost tints which are a bit stronger and give a better effect. Google ghost tint and watch a few videos on it.

>>50973643
>>50973581
Depends on if he's talking about the black wash to give the metal a dark look, or the colored washes.

In the latter case, those work best with an airbrush.

>>50973708
Colored wash. And a worthwhile airbrush will set you back about $200 I'm told?

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>>50973581
>>50973640
>>50973643
>>50973708
Ghost tints are easier, but far from required.

The basic effect in pic related was metal basecoat -> Nuln Oil wash -> Druchii Violet or Biel-Tan Green wash.

Just one layer of each of the washes, but apply it fairly thick.

This was all brush work, no airbrush required.

>>50973727
I got a good compressor+airbrush deal for around 150, but yeah, it's generally not a good idea to apply tints unless you're really practiced.

You could try doing it as a glaze.

>>50973798
Yeah, that looks pretty good. Really, the biggest reason to use an airbrush is for the blending, unless you're really practiced with a brush.

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>trimming flash with new xacto blade
>blade slips off, into my thumb, feel the blade grind off my bone
>blood all over my models

HELP

>>50974988
Go to the doctor

>>50974988
>cutting towards you
>cutting with enough force to break skin
Shit nigga, were you never in scouts?
Wash it, put some neosporin on, put a bandaid on, and go to a clinic if it's really that deep.

>>50974988
Your models now know the taste of blood.
>This will surely improve their performance on the table.
>Smart thinking Anon.

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Meanwhile, in the Tlalocan system....

>>50975158
Man I was never in scouts and I still know basic blade safety.

>>50976369
This, it's all common sense.
>don't cut towards you
>shave off small pieces very lightly
>if you're blade isn't sharp enough to that, it needs to be sharper
>if you can reach anyone without moving with your blade, you're too close to them

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>>50975158
I know, but it seems like some sort of subliminal custom - every tie I've ever switched to a new blade, withing a day, that thing will be in my body in some way, shape or form, and then it'll never happen again during the life of that particular blade.

Either this is some sort of rite of passage to continue modeling, or I'm just a god damned idiot who forgets basic rules every two to three months.

Model is coming along nicely though.

>>50976257
PHR ships are obviously delphinoidea, not balaenopteroidea. Get your animal references correct, senpai.

What are your favourite ships?
Mine is the Sphere x Humanity.

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>>50980143
The Beijing is, without a doubt, the most beautiful and well designed ship in the entire line.

The UCM in general are top tier.

>>50980143
PHR filth x nuclear fire is the best ship.

>>50980143
Menchit pilot x Abraxis

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>>50980337
F

>>50980242
Get outta here, you non-mechaphile.

>>50980242
Someone get this hothead outta here.

>>50980433
no u

And take your alien robot master with you.

>>50980143
I think im an oddball, I like the scourge cruisers, and frigates, and even the shaltari frigates

Favorite would be the PHR cruisers though

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>>50981253
>no offense, but...

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>>50981864
well i feel stupid, guess my new years resolution will be to off myself, god damn.

>>50970648
>every ~20 exchange ends up unpredictable way
>too random
Ehh, sounds like he finds DFC too random too in the long run.

>>50984428
This.

9/10 times an active turn Asura will murder the shit out of a Fusilier. FtF rolls between units with different stats rarely come down to pure luck, and when something unexpected happens, that's part of the nature of a simulationist game. The idea is that you prepare for unexpected results the same way an actual commander would have to, because in combat that kind of thing happens once in a while.

>>50985370
Things can get pretty random if you suck and don't stack your modifiers properly. Being able to die on your own turn is an idea some people seem to have a hard time dealing with.

>>50985420
>>50985370
Fusiliers on ARO are the bane of my existence. Swiss guard, magisters, TR bot, jotum? Not a problem. Doesnt matter the negative modifier, fusilier is going to crit your ass on that single die roll.

>>50980172
The UCM are slow and have terrible scan range. What the are good at is getting boots on the ground and forcing close range fights over drop sites.

In pure fleet fights they are mediocre at best.

>>50988330
I meant their ship designs are top tier, but I'm going to challenge your other assertions.

>In pure fleet fights they are mediocre at best.
They are the second toughest fleet after the PHR, with everything over a light cruiser having 3+ armor and everything else having 4+
Their beams are the absolute best in the game currently, meaning they can do excellent damage on approach.
All of their ships have some kind of side-arc weapon, meaning that everything can contribute to plinking away at a target without changing their course.
Their support frigates are outmatched only by the Opal, simply because of how useful a squadron of Limas hanging out on the back line is, as well as how Jakarta's mitigate their generally low-tier launch assets.
Finally, their CAW is second only to the Scourge.

The UCM are a jack-of-all-trades faction with a good focus on bombardment, and are exceedinly competent at straight up fighting thanks to their powerful weapon choices on approach, on pass-bys, and on brawls.
While they lack the sheer range of the Shaltari to capitalize on their powerful beams, Limas circumvent this and allow for the UCM to possibly snipe one or two high value targets (at least crippling them) before the battle is joined.

>>50988461
On approach, UCM has more stand-off fighting capability than either PHR or Scourge, due to having amazing burnthrough lasers all over, and the possibility of Limas active scanning.

You can never out-arc the heavy mass driver ships, and a battery of heavy mass drivers is about the same as a PHR broadside, and superior to Scourge non-CAW attacks.
3+ Armor on everything that matters means you need crits, and they laugh off stuff like light PHR batteries.
Also, best bombardment by a huge factor. The Madrid is stupidly cheap for what it can do.

>>50989790
Really, the only thing the UCM lack compared to the other factions are a) good launch assets and b) lots of separate weapon profiles.

For example, the Scourge cruisers have the equivalent of two heavy mass driver batteries in the case of occulus arrays; the UCM medium mass drivers are useful, but they're not primary weapons.

>>50988330
Pure fleet fights the faction whose heavy cruiser can go weapons free and put out 8 3+ lock shots on a single target in F/S arcs is mediocre? What?

Name another faction that can pull that shit off

>>50991089
The PHR can technically do 16 3+ shots, split between two targets, but side arcs are more of a bitch.

I'd say that the UCM actually have the least raw firepower of any faction, on par with the Shaltari, but their arcs and generally good stats in everything else more than makes up for it.

>>50991247
What can do 16 3+ shots? remember, medium batteries don't ever get a lock improvement.

Firing 8 4+ to a side is comparable in end-damage to 4 3+ when against 3+ armor, and substantially worse when at different orbits.

>>50991413
Sh shit, you're right. I forgot that the medium batteries were 4+, not 3+.

That said, an Achilles is comparable to the Moscow, at the cost of being split between two side arcs and lacking the medium turrets.

>>50991435
I'd say that cost is definitely filled by having a fucking torpedo strapped to the front. I'd definitely bet on it to kill a Moscow pretty well. It wouldn't even have to Weapons Free to do so.

The Hector on the other hand is lacking... something. It just doesn't feel worth its points when you have the Orion sitting around.

>>50991435
The Achillies is great if your trying to murder in another Heavy or larger ship. But the moscow is just shear versatility once its gone weapons free, and it can do that in all the arcs. The UCM are just rock solid, they have solid firepower in solid arcs, and if you get them in the right place at the right time they will fuck your shit up hard. There is nothing mediocre about them at all.

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>Finally figure out a paint scheme
>Test model came out nicely, simple but clean
>Been raining for the last 4 days

I have no good weather but I must paint.

>>50992122
I feel your pain bro

>>50991782
I must admit, the Moscow scares me.

I tend to chuck eight bombers at it as soon as possible. The only other ship that gets me to do that is the Manticore.

>>50993539
Uhh, Basilisk.

I think?

>>50993564
The one with the eight 2-damage shots and full cloak?

>>50992122
I apply my basecoats in a paper-box and let them stand on the window-sill under an open window to dry.
Works good on rainy days.

How many points does a starter fleet with commodore extras make?

What would be the next step in purchases? Is it too early for a battleship?

>>50994088
>How many points does a starter fleet with commodore extras make?

Depends what you build your extra cruisers/frigates as.

Personally the only extra purchases I've made so far are another starter box and a battleship.

>>50994088
like >>50994469 said depends on what you build, and which faction it is.

>>50994630
I realize that, but what ballpark of game size for UCM and Scourge

>>50994906
The UCM starter set plus the Atlantis is 739pts.

The Scourge starter set plus the Basilisk is 738pts.

Assuming you go for the safe choice of making a troopship for each faction with your extra cruisers, the UCM come to 850, whereas the Scourge come to 843.

The frigates will probably bring things into somewhere near 1500pts.

>>50995089
Actually, more like 1200pts.

>>50995089
Thanks pal. About what size game are most people playing?

>>50996786
the gold standard is 1500, but i see people mention 750 skirmish games too, could easily also swing a 1200-1250 game probably. End goal is probably 1500 though.

>>50997235
750 is basically 'box + capital ship'. Or 'box + more frigates', which works too.

1000's a solid game. Still small scale.

1500's enough where you can diversify your list, but still have distinct limits on what you can field. Those points run out fast.

--------------------------------------
Ping and Beam - 1498pts
UCM - 0 launch assets

SR30 Flag battlegroup (472pts)
1 x Beijing - 252pts - S
+ UCM Commodore (40pts, 3AV)
1 x Tokyo - 220pts - S

SR12 Vanguard battlegroup (269pts)
1 x Perth - 195pts - H
2 x Lima - 74pts - L

SR12 Vanguard battlegroup (269pts)
1 x Perth - 195pts - H
2 x Lima - 74pts - L

SR7 Line battlegroup (175pts)
1 x San Francisco - 111pts - M
1 x New Orleans - 32pts - L
1 x Jakarta - 32pts - L

SR7 Line battlegroup (175pts)
1 x San Francisco - 111pts - M
1 x New Orleans - 32pts - L
1 x Jakarta - 32pts - L

SR4 Pathfinder battlegroup (98pts)
1 x New Orleans - 32pts - L
3 x Santiago - 66pts - L
------------- dflist.com -------------

Did I meme too hard?

File: PHR_Cruiser_Perseus0.jpg (79KB, 793x530px) Image search: [Google]

79KB, 793x530px

Bump for the absolute best, most efficient ship in the game.

>>50996786
My group are almost exclusivly playing 1000pt or 1200pt based upone wether we use battleships or not.

>>50999322
Wait. Do we like the Perseus now?
Or was it the Theseus we hated?

>>50999374
Nah, the Perseus is the only ship in the game that is outright useless compared to all its competitors at nearly every point level.

The Theseus is damn solid.

>>50999374
if you replaced the perseus light batter with a medium, and the front with a burnthrough and left the point cost alone it would be possibly best tier, alternatively remove to front drop the cost a bit and make it a second light cruiser variant (still make the lights into a medium though)

As something to keep the thread alive through the night, let's discuss a possible /dcg/ homebrew/rebalancing for DFC. Post shit you think needs to be done, or why other people's recommendations are horrible.

>UCM
>make their bombers actually comparable to the other factions; Scourge have Scald and range, PHR have lock, and Shaltari have range, so perhaps the UCM bombers gets 3 attacks per rather than 2. Possibly at the cost of having 4+ lock rather than 3+

>Scourge
>nothing really, they're damn solid.

>PHR
>rewrite statlines so that the Ajax, Orion, Hector, and Achilles all have independently targeting half-sides. Generalize all PHR ships so that they can fire a full broadside, whether it be the same weapon or mixed, with weapons free being needed to fire both sides.
>possibly split the PHR battleship cannonades into half as well to keep with the pattern
>Make the Perseus much, much cheaper, or give it a burn through instead of a medium turret, or replace its lights with mediums

>Shaltari
>all Particle weapons are 2+ lock, with point costs adjusting to match
>Granite has linked on its particle lances, or it stays cheap
>Amethyst bumped up to 50 points for the sake of autism
>Glass to 15 or 20 points for the sake of autism

New to dropzone. Local dropzone facebook group is freaking out over a possible new faction being teased in the lore.

Anyone that knows anything about the lore can you spoonfeed me in regards to this?

>>50999540
There was an incident over Titan where an advanced UCM stealth ship was discovered, but it was possibly Shaltari.

Can you tell us exactly what lines/passages they're freaking out about?

>>50999621

Vague stuff about UCM ships being taken out by unknown foes over worlds and abroad is the best I can sum it up.

Dude talked about it then it went into wish listing and speculation with people saying a new faction was coming out for dropzone commander anyway so it makes sense they said.

>>50999521
Glass pricing was an actual mistake, that's going to be erratad. I 100% agree with particle weapons being 2+ lock though, they're shit compared to disintegrators atm.

UCM launch assets being terrible is a meme, they're not great but they're serviceable. I wouldn't mind 3 4+ shots for bombers though, it would be more of a sidegrade anyway and would go well with the slightly lower launch numbers.

Haven't experienced enough PHR to know about them, but the Ajax fluff not being able to be replicated in game makes me think they may have tested independent targeting and found it to be overpowered or something. And I think everyone here agrees on poor Percy needing some kind of help.

>>50999872
Honestly, I can only see independent targeting being OP against frigate swarms, and even then I don't think it can be THAT bad.

It makes sense for the PHR anyways, even if all their points costs need to be upped by like 25%. I'm going to see about playtesting these changes with some friends, but I'm just wondering what /dcg/ thinks.

I'd honestly consider dropping the percy down to 95, but that just goes against the entire PHR design ethos. It's sad to say, but the Perseus' loadout just doesn't work, and it can't work without giving it an asspull ability like regenerate or hardened.

>>50999952
2x6 4+ shots per turn, and possibly 4x6 on weapons free could delete an awful lot of frigates very quickly, dont forget you only need to do about 2 damage to most frigates to put them into ground, yeah 12 shots is overkill as fuck but its only one frigate, lets not also forget possible catastrophic damage explosions as well.

File: syn.png (127KB, 442x390px) Image search: [Google]

127KB, 442x390px

>>50999952
I say give the perseus a single torpedo and CA weapon; nothing else.

>>51000521
nah save that for a "heavy" frigate design

>>51000502
Perhaps then the entire "progression" of PHR guns needs to be rethought?
As of now, from heavy to light, it's:
2 4 6 shots per halfside.
It could be 2 4 5, or 2 3 5, or even 2 3 4.
It really depends on how much more powerful independent targeting makes the PHR.
Perhaps, through some use of the alternative rule or some other, give the PHR their current output when firing a full broadside of the same calibre against the same target, but a reduced output when splitting fire between targets?

>>51000565
For example, consider the following in the case of the Ajax. It's a bit of a wordy profile, but it gets across the idea well enough

Light Caliber Battery; 5+ lock, 5 attack, 1 damage, S(L), Alt-1, Caliber(L), linked-1
Light Caliber Battery; 5+ lock, 5 attack, 1 damage, S(L), Alt-2, Caliber(L), linked-1
Light Caliber Broadside; 5+ lock, 12 attack, 1 damage, S(L), Alt-1&2, Caliber(L)
Light Caliber Battery; 5+ lock, 5 attack, 1 damage, S(R), Alt-3, Caliber(L), linked-2
Light Caliber Battery; 5+ lock, 5 attack, 1 damage, S(R), Alt-4, Caliber(L), linked-2
Light Caliber Broadside; 5+ lock, 12 attack, 1 damage, S(R), Alt-3&4, Caliber(L)
Supernova
Wasp Drones

Now, obviously, an eight line weapon profile is a bit much. Two alternatives come to mind, then, as shown by these examples.

Light Caliber Battery; 5+ lock, 5 attack, 1 damage, S(L), Caliber(L), linked-1, Volley-1
Light Caliber Battery; 5+ lock, 5 attack, 1 damage, S(L), Caliber(L), linked-1, Volley-1

Volley-n: If all weapons of the same volley-n target the same ship, add 1 to the attack value of each profile.

OR

Light Caliber Broadside; 5+ lock, 12 attack, 1 damage, S(L), Caliber(L), Independent(2)

Independent(x): This weapon may split its attacks equally among up to x targets; if it does so, the number of attacks made against each target is reduced by 1.

These, of course, are just examples.

>>51000676
Additionaly, it'd need to be seen how this would effect the split type ships.

For example, would the Theseus have its mediums and lights reduced down to 3 and 5 attacks, respectively?

This could be circumvented by giving the single-type ships banks of guns, similar to those present on the Europa, while keeping batteries as they currently are.

File: [ANGRY JELLYFISH NOISES].jpg (103KB, 586x580px) Image search: [Google]

103KB, 586x580px

FOR FUCKS SAKE

>>51001252
At least you have some sort of notification, anon. I'm still getting the big wall of silence.

>>50920272
who is this, and are those magnetic cannons?

>>51003383
That is Moscow-chan and those are her mass driver batteries.

>>51003383
Moscow-class heavy cruiser and yes.

Wait hold on so Shaltari particle weapons are bad? I would have thought the 'lol i crit u" factor would have made them great. What gives?

>my shaltari fleet is bad now

>>51004229
They have a 33% to miss entirely, and the overall damage output is lack for the smaller ships.

The Diamond is an absolute monster since it's 2+ and crippling. Depending on the interpretation of the crippling and particle rules, the chances for the Diamond to inflict a crippling roll is either:
99.6% per firing if EVERY hit counts as a critical hit, due to particle.
OR
87.5% per firing if a critical hit is still only on a 4, 5, or 6

The Ruby and Obsidian are solid because, even though their particle guns are 3+, they can fire two that are linked, which is a pretty excellent beam weapon. They only have a 11% chance to do no damage per firing.

The Granite is meh because it can only fire one lance on standard orders, and has an outright 33% chance to miss on a 2 damage shot. No other cruiser in the game is so weak.

The Jade is just bad for its cost, as it has only 66% to do one damage. If it were cheaper it'd be a good sniper to pick off damaged frigates and ships, but as of now it's Perseus tier.

The Shaltari's range helps mitigate this a bit, but it's still a horrible lack of overall damage potential in the case of the Granite and Jade.

In general, I'd say that all particle weapons should be 2+ lock, and the Granite's guns should be linked.

>>51004229

Not enough dice, not high enough lock-on value. Compared to other races frontal "big-gun" lasers of other races in their equivalent weight classes.

The exception is, as >>51004395 points out the Diamond since it's 2+ lock and with crippling.

In any case the strength of the Shaltari is in their sheilds, excellent fighters to negate one of the downsides of shields, and skyhigh scan value which makes the alt-mode of their Bombardment Weapons murderous, and that they actually throw a decent amount of dice when using more standard gun batteries.

All Shaltari particle weapons become 2+
The Diamond's lances lose crippling and instead do 3 damage each.
The Onyx has all 3 of its lances linked
The Granite has both of its lances linked
Points are modified to compensate.

y/n?

>>51004526
>All Shaltari particle weapons become 2+

Fuck no, this makes them far too consistent.

Their scan range plus the ability to auto-crit with certainty would make them OP as fuck.

>>51004689
>Fuck no, this makes them far too consistent.
That's exactly the point of both them as a weapon and the Shaltari as a faction. They're supposed to be consistent, but lacking in overall firepower.

>Their scan range plus the ability to auto-crit with certainty would make them OP as fuck.
Their scan range, while nice, is only 6-4" more than any other faction. It really only comes into play as a game changer in regards to CAW (especially with the Amethyst), while the overall increase is a smaller proportion at scan+sig range.

Played my first game yesterday as Scourge vs UCM. For all the people saying that the Hydras are great, I feel like they didnt do much outside of pinging some shios for a bit of damage before exploding. How are you supposed to counter two Seattle carriers and two of the PD frigates shielding their entire fleet?

>>51004725
When you add their hilariously small sig, though, those few inches really add up. Against, say, Moscow-chan, without spikes the shaltari are engaging 18" away versus the 9" range of the Moscow. In a vacuum, at least, that 9" gives a potential 2 shots of particle weapons before the moscow can return fire, 1 of which the shaltari are also in CAW range.
Assuming we're talking the Obsidian class to pit heavy cruiser vs heavy cruiser, with the changes suggested that means all 3 lances fire on 2+, at least 4 damage per salvo is gonna connect, which means you're going to have crippled the moscow before it has any chance to fire, before even accounting for the CAW for the second salvo.

At the very least forcing the cruisers to go weapons hot to use all of their firepower preempts some of that bullshit, because being unable to fight back and getting reamed by a cheaper ship blows, especially for a ship like the moscow, which is generally a strong centerpiece to a fleet.

>>51005346
Bomb-pumped lasers.

>>51005532
nuclear pumped x-ray lasers are useful, but I don't think DFC has rules for them.

>>51005575
> Optical pumping causes electronic excitation which leads to stimulated emission.

Laser physics is far sexier than people give it credit for.

>>51005446
I can see your point, and can see how a properly managed Shaltari fleet would be an issue. Even with all that, I feel that 2+ particle lances is still the best way to go. In fact, now that I think about it, a 2+ for 2 damage is still a decent weapon for the Granite on standard orders, even with it being F(N), with the particle rule.

A heavy mass driver battery is only statistically likely to do slightly less than 2 damage per firing, and even then its range of results is much wider and less consistent than a 2+ lance.

>>51005346
How many Hydras did you bring? In any case, the solution is to destroy their carriers and Jakartas.

>>51005631
2+ lances I can see, but not if all guns are linked on a given vessel. That's just too ridiculous given their control over engagement ranges

>>51005575
He's talking about the occulus beams bruh.

>>51005690
Fair enough; keeping everything as it is now but bumping lances up to 2+ is probably for the best.
I don't think there's a regular non-superweapon that 2+ anyways.

>>51005631

It was a 999 point game so I had two. He had two Seattles and two Jakartas. When it came time for launch assets, he always kept allocating all his fighters onto the target I was bombing and kept the Jakartas near them. I think it would have gone better if I had not thrown away my Akuma so early and if I had brought more sources of long range firepower. Most of my list were CAW ships or was launch assets.

>>51004725
>Their scan range, while nice, is only 6-4" more than any other faction.

It's effectively much larger than that considering their tiny signatures.

Particle Lances are fine. Every time I've run Shaltari, they've crippled the shit out of enemy ships in short order, sometimes before they even get in range to return fire.

>>51005804
Sounds like he played well and you learned a lesson. Did you try shooting up then Jakartas?

>>51005867
>Particle Lances are fine.
In the case of Diamonds, Rubies, and Onyxs. Granites I'm not too sure about, and Jades are nearly useless.

>>51005804
Were you losing initiative on the launch assets phase?
Try taking a better Admiral next time so you can send bombers to where he isn't stacked up.

>>51005996
thats impossible you allocate bombers, then fighters, no matter who wins what your opponent can always fighter counter if he intends to do so.

>>51006033
Hmm, you're right, I had forgotten about that.

Now that I think about it, the entire system seems kind of weird. It'd be much more interesting if the launch group activation sequence was done as normal, but with both fighters and bombers.

>>51006112
problem is that a simultaneous system would mean the winner of the initiative roll would be able to bomb with impunity, this would make bombers fairly powerful, and make it so that fighters were mostly useless. It would also make that one roll super critical depending on fleet skew.

>>51006112
It's absolutely necessary for you to be able to respond with fighters against bombers.

As to the Hydra vs Seattle battle, the Seattle's a superior ship in general due to being more flexible. She's got a strong main battery and some strike craft, and the Hydra has many strike craft but a crappy main battery.

You'll need to clear out their PD before letting the Hydra go to down with masses of superior bombers.

>>51006160
It's not entirely simultaneous, remember; the loser of the roll would choose one launch group, deploy all its launch assets, then the next player would choose a group and deploy assets, and then it would cycle around.

This would just make it that much more important to have either multiple launch groups, or a good Admiral.

>>51006262
Is that a subtle buff to PHR? You assign your hydra, I assign my ikarus, you assign your Seattle, I assign my Andromeda, oh hey, now it's time to assign my Bellerophon, but you haven't anymore carriers...

>>51006517
Good point; you could make it so that the launch groups with the highest launch must launch first in whatever order.

Example, Shaltari vs PHR
Shaltari has a Platinum (7) and two groups of Basalts, one each (4)

PHR has a Bellerophon (4), a group of two Ikarus (4), a group of four Andromeda (4), and a group of three Andromeda (3)

Shaltari wins the initiative, so PHR has to choose either their Bellerophon group, their Ikarus group, or the larger Andromeda group to launch fighters and bombers first.
Shaltari then launches fighters and bombers from the Platinum.
PHR then launches fighters and bombers from one of the remaining two groups
Then a Basalt
and so on, until the Andromeda goes last.

Speaking of Shaltari, how does this look? Is two emeralds enough?

--------------------------------------
Max launch Shaltari - 1498pts
Shaltari - 15 launch assets

SR16 Flag battlegroup (310pts)
1 x Platinum - 270pts - S
+ Starchief (80pts, 4AV)
1 x Opal - 40pts - L

SR11 Vanguard battlegroup (215pts)
1 x Ruby - 200pts - H
1 x Voidgate - 15pts - L

SR11 Vanguard battlegroup (215pts)
1 x Ruby - 200pts - H
1 x Voidgate - 15pts - L

SR13 Line battlegroup (335pts)
1 x Basalt - 145pts - M
1 x Basalt - 145pts - M
3 x Voidgate - 45pts - L

SR12 Line battlegroup (280pts)
1 x Emerald - 100pts - M
1 x Emerald - 100pts - M
2 x Opal - 80pts - L

SR2 Pathfinder battlegroup (63pts)
1 x Voidgate - 15pts - L
1 x Amethyst - 48pts - L
------------- dflist.com -------------

If a ship's entry says group 2-3, does that mean i HAVE to bring at least 2? For instance, I built a Strix, do I need to build at least one more? Is a single ship illegal in this case?

>>51007116
Yes, Strix must come in groups of either size 2 or 3.

A single ship would be illegal in a list, yes.

New thread, commanders.

>>51008707
>>51008707
>>51008707