Pathfinder General /pfg/

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Well if we're posting monsters.

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Friendly reminder that 2hu should be banned from the Molthune game and all future /pfg/ games for being an asshole.

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The way is blocked by [Flaming Skeleton]

>>50895862
One of my characters attempted diplomacy with one in our planetrotting Hell adventures campaign. She agreed to forgo hostilities, but unfortunately did not succumb to our teenage heroine's sexual advances.

Would you fuck a marilith /pfg/?

4chan won't let me post the pic: http://danbooru.donmai.us/posts/1390154

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>>50895882
I want you to know that you're really making me sad with your insistence on not being excellent.

>>50895877
2hu thinks you can just go up to a fort of veterans, give an inspiring speech, and then lolololol they all surrender.

That's dumb as fuck no matter how high your Bluff/Diplo/Intimidate is.

>>50895921
Fuck you.
You don't know what it's like to talk to 2hu and get shat all over by his autism.

>>50895927

You sound 2hu switched tactics and is overselling his part so the DM takes his char just to spite you.

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i'd rather post interesting armor and clothes ideas for magic items.

Stat them /pfg/!

>>50895931
I really am sorry that you feel so strongly about a person that you have to devote your time just to bad mouthing them. I hope things work out for you.

>>50895950
Light armor that lets you glide?

>>50895964

i would totally have that as a quirky band of fighters that the party has to fight.

>>50895862
i actually really like this Marlith design. And how the legs make up a cobra's hood.

>>50895862
Mariliths are not underused. They are grossly over-CRed.

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>>50895950
Weapon enchantment - Executioner
You can now use Coup de grace regardless if they are helpless or not

man I have not seen such dedication to shitposting from this witch hunt anon since the days I spent in lolg

>>50896002
>How to break any semblance of encounter balance

>>50896002
>those constant fort saves

oh man. That better be like a +4/5 enchantment

>>50896027
>>50896031
Hmmm yeah
How about...
"You can now use Coup de grace on prone enemies too"

>>50895882
That lazy dog is cute! CUTE!

>>50895919
Absolutely, Anon, but only a cute one with six arms like OP, not a dreadful weeb "lamia" abomination.

>>50896038

Ehh, i'd have it work like a combat manuver. a combat manuver that you dont have the specific feat for and provokes.

>>50896038
Coup de grace in battle is cancer.
It means the GM has to either settle for any enemy being potentially oneshot or make everything important immune to CDG.

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I'm going to try to start up a new Roll20 /pfg/ game. It'll be a planehopping game!

But first, what setting should it be? Vote now!

http://www.strawpoll.me/11963788

You can play all the big titty anime girls you want in this game!

>>50896166
Hey look, another game that's not actually going to be run.

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>>50896177
RotJR GM, please don't!

>>50895862

This snek is best snek.

You've have the capability of thicc squeezable thighs and full on coil hug bodies at the same time.

>>50894853 #

Why not do the best of both worlds? Force a matrilineal marriage as soon as she's old enough, spend a lifetime with that knight bearing their children and loving them with all your giant dragon heart... And then, when he dies of old age, you fly off to find a Silver you can have little shimmering dragon children with.

You're a goddamn dragon, dear. You could spend 400 years fucking humans and you'll still be hardly a young adult by dragon standards.

>>50896252
And 2hu's immortal shota trap will still outlive her.

>>50895927
>people good at diplomacy can convince people of unlikely things!

>>50896324
Orator is just Linguistics for Bluff/Diplomacy/Intimidate.

If you want to build a strong unarmed PoW character without using Broken Blade, what's the best way to do it? A mix of Thrashing Dragon, Fool's Errand and Riven Hourglass?

>>50896336
Play an unchained monk.

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Are Dire Bats considered Quadrupedal or Bipedal for their weight capacity adjustments?

>>50896343
You think that'd be better than the strikes? I'm honestly asking.

>>50896374
Steelfist commando for the class, probably.

>>50896374
Well... It would play better. You also get cool abilities. Most of PoW is just numbers that are 50% bigger than they should be.

>previous threads
So someone is going full-liberal-art's-feminisim levels of triggered over a character's high skills?

Why?

And why has this been going on for at least two threads?

>>50896336
Fool's Errand mainly.
Steelfist Commando and Aurora Soul are obvious good choices, but so is Brutal Slayer Stalker. Harbinger too if you want less damage and more Lock.

Really, any discipline that can work with unarmed is fine, just go with what fits the style you want.

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>>50896324
>diplomacy is mind control

>>50896482
It is when you combine it with Bluff and Intimidate.

>>50896482
>you can't change people's mind without magic
>Japanese cartoon image

>>50895927

Honestly, depending on what sort of social leverage you have, it could work.

Veterans are not fanatics, after all and it's not like there isn't an existing account of a guy successfully defending a fortress purely by making it look like he had a super secret plan and everyone believed it and didn't attack.

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>First time GM, have a few sessions with players
>Spend Christmas away on family's farm with no internet
>See family I hadn't seen in nearly two decades, one of the largest reunions of my family
>Gifts, dinners and fun aplenty
>Come back yesterday, have a 500 miles drive in me, decide to GM my players anyway even if I'm not sure I have enough material ready or if I'm in the right mindset
>My players love it and compliment me
>Somehow this felt better to me than my entire vacations despite it being an online game with people I've never met

I don't know if I should be feeling this way but it feels warm

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>>50896482
>convincing a group of people to surrender is mind control!
Call me a fucking wizard if you like but I've convinced people to do things for me in the past.
I mean shit, in the most recent session of a game I'm in I convinced a bunch of bandits to jack their leader in the back and join me for booty, bounty and the glory of bullshit, I didn't realize I was playing the game wrong, thanks for correcting me, autistic internet superhero.

>>50896524
>after all and it's not like there isn't an existing account of a guy successfully defending a fortress purely by making it look like he had a super secret plan and everyone believed it and didn't attack.
Purely apocryphal.

Romance of the Three Kingdoms isn't a historical source.

>>50896506
It is not because the GM explicitly said so when asked. being good with words won't allow you to mind control people. Convincing a fort that a siege is meaningless and that they have a better chance of surrendering could still be possible, especially if you go for the comfy feel where people are generally reasonable and opportunies to avoid violence should be pursed.

>>50896538
Veteran fort defenders are not bandits.

>>50896524
Is Carcassone throwing a pig over a wall a nat 20 diplomacy check?

Is the Trojan horse a nat 1 perception check combined with a nat 20 diplo check?

>>50896543
But that's not what happened. This shonen shit happened.
>The wizard strode towards the fort in the mystical disguise of a dashing colonel in gleaming plate armor. In a voice that boomed like deafening thunder, he gave an ultimatum: give up the fort immediately, or be slaughtered to the last man before midnight. He exaggerated the capacities of the Molthuni unit with great flair, making them out to be a legion of hardened killers. Lynn struck fear into the Nirmathi with threats so chilling that the sweat on the defenders' brows could have frozen. Most of all, he established a rapport, convincing them that Molthune and Nirmathas alike were comprised of humane, mortal men who all wished for nothing more than safe homes, steady food, and peaceful days. Molthune was in need of many good men, and if the defenders were to defect or surrender, Lynn swore that they would be given respect and auspicious new lives.

>>50896482
Only a loser with no friends thinks that you can't change people's mind with charisma.

>>50896556
...just reading that makes me want to punch someone

>>50896543
>giving up a fort just because someone said to
>reasonable

>>50896571
You should take anger management classes then.

>>50896556
Sounds about right. What is your problem? And shat is shonen?

>>50896571
That's 2hu in a nutshell for you.

>>50896541

I said account, not a historical account.

Not like D&D is a more realistic depiction of the world.

>>50896545

The Trojan Horse is basically the epitome of 'Failed a Sense Motive Roll'

>GM: It seems legit.
>Trojans: Sweet, cool horse statue!

>>50896571
Fukin why?

>>50896556

Honestly, that's pretty good. A bit overdone for my liking but you can't expect players to give the actual speech itself and it does more to get the mannerisms/gist over.

Not like they are just saying 'I roll diplomacy'

>>50896583
You aren't fooling anyone.

>>50896544
And? The only difference is how much booty, bounty and bullshit you have to feed them.
If it was a single zealot or a group that had more fanatical ideology uniting them, I'd be tempted to agree, but veteran soldiers are still human and are still just fighting for some asshole that hardly ever turns up to inspect their belt straps before fucking off home to go pound some rich noble cunt in the courts.

>>50896556
>Join us or die horribly, I mean Christ fuck, we're going to kill the women, rape the houses and pillage the defenders unless you put hands skywards right now.
That's pretty much how you convince someone to do something for you mate.
You don't convince people by going 'Give in or get fucked' you give them the whole 'Look, I know you're a nice guy just trying to make ends meet so I'm going to offer you a chance to not get savagely sword-fucked by my friend here, as a favor to a legit ass nigga who reminds me of a younger, less handsome version of myself, so give in now and we're good, if not...well, its your choice'
How is that not a perfectly valid way of convincing people around, you massive fruit?
If he'd been wanking on about friendship and the value of human life and wouldn't it be saaaaaaaaaaad if we fought, then I'd agree with you.

>>50896556
>Incredible man with impossibly high charisma stats does things deemed impossible to mortals


desu I think I'm jaded if I see nothing wrong with this

>>50896612
LEVEL 3

>>50896592
>>50896604
And the defenders couldn't just call bullshit... why?

>>50896639
Still not +48 or whatever that NToRacle was getting.

>>50896659
That's what a bluff is. You can call bullshit and bite the bullet... if you are willing to take that risk. That shota is a master of not only diplomacy but intimidation too and backstory supports that. The defenders were scared shitless.

>>50896664
NToRacle had only like +16 all day.
2hu has +27 ALL DAY so he can do a Bluff check then a Diplo check then an Intimidate check. And he can buff that more with spells and d20 rerolls. And get a +10 with the pendant 1/day.

>>50896639
And his bonus?
What level are 'veterans' anyway?

>>50896659
Because he managed to convince them he was legit, you dense fuck.
>I have this massive fuck off army, doncha know, here's the proof
>Bullshit! You don't have a massive fuck off army, despite having convinced me you do
>Yes I do
>No you don't!
And so on and so forth.

>>50896659

That's what the actual roll is for. The fluff is setting up a situation where the die roll matters.

I mean 'X could just call bullshit' applies to literally every bluff in the game.

>>50895931
Yes I do, since I asked him for build advice once and he told me I should play a different class. You know what I did? I ignored him.

>>50896689
>I asked him for build advice once and he told me I should play a different class
Classic 2hu.

>>50896689
Wow, that sounds like every body on here.

>>50896671
>That shota is a master of not only diplomacy but intimidation too and backstory supports that.
And that's kinda Mary Sue for a level 3.

>>50896706
No it's not. Not even heckin' close.

>>50896706
>mary sue
>pathfinder
Ok.jpg

>>50896671
>>50896676
But couldn't the defenders see that the army outside was weakass, the moment the defenders agreed to surrender?

Couldn't the defenders just slaughter the weakass unit outside?

If it was a bluff, why did it work over and over again for FIVE YEARS?

>>50896586

Cassandra and that one Priest knew it was a trap.

One was a Powerless Oracle and the other got eaten by water snakes.

>>50896715
>>50896717
It's overpowered when you have ALL DAY Orator +27.

>>50896706
No, anon, that's just minmaxing. It doesn't have anything to do with being a mary sue.

>>50896726
Min-maxed/overpowered is not mary sue.

>>50896732
>>50896736
Yes it is. When you're bending the story over the knee because you're powergamed, that's being a Mary Sue.

>>50896676

>What is a veteran?

Now that's a question, because it ranges from "this badass is level 3! Fear him!" To the "elite" soldiers of a dinky River Kingdom being level 9.

>>50896746
Supposedly level 1 fighters can also be "veterans."

>>50896744
It would seem that you have literally no idea what mary sue means.

>>50896732
>>50896736
The Mary Sue is graduating top of his class at 14, and the reference to how people gave him stuff and everyone liked him because he was just THAT good at talking.

>>50896764
That sounds normal for a diplomancer.

>>50896750

Yeah, there is that. 'I have real person levels' can often be considered a veteran in lower power settings.

>>50896764
Half-elves age normally until age 15 then stop aging until 20.
Elves age normally until age 15 then stop aging until 115.

It's completely retarded any other way.

Refer to http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/gameMasteryGuide/nPCGallery.html

Also the veteran thing.
You can be a veteran and still no better than you started. Being veteran can just mean you survived.

>>50896770

And then you discover the average guardsman in Kasai is a level 15 badass, and the tough expert swordsman ruler of Mivon is level 10.

Paizo never bothered to establish power levels in their own setting!

>>50896744
Just when i think you can't dig your hole any deeper...

>>50896792
>And then you discover the average guardsman in Kasai is a level 15 badass, and the tough expert swordsman ruler of Mivon is level 10.
[citation needed]

>>50896706
Do you know what a fucking Mary Sue is

I am so fucking sick of this general and its flavor of the week shitposting, every fucking thread with this autistic shit. Can you people grow the fuck up?

>>50896782
A first level half-elf wizard should be 23. He graduated at 14, enlisted, and already had access to 2nd level spells. He was a third level wizard at 14.

>>50896811
This is such a stupid thing to complain about.

>>50896811
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/basics-ability-scores/more-character-options/young-characters
Age: The simplest way for a young character to reach adulthood is by aging into new age thresholds. Table: Random Young Character Starting Ages includes the age when members of the core races reach adulthood. Once a character reaches that age, she loses the ability score adjustments related to youth and may retrain NPC classes. If you aren't playing a core race, find a race with the lifespan that most closely approximates that of your character's race and work with your GM to create reasonable age benchmarks for youth, adulthood, middle age, and beyond.

Reward: The pace at which characters gain experience varies widely from campaign to campaign. In one campaign, a character might gain multiple levels in a single month of in-game time, while in another a character might spend years at the same level. If adulthood were purely tied to the passage of time in a campaign, a young character might gain extensive adventuring experience but still be restricted to selecting only NPC classes.

A GM may grant a young character the option of passing into the adult age category early after achieving some noteworthy goal. Potential accomplishments include surpassing your instructor's skill, defeating a powerful adult foe, overcoming a threat to your home, or completing a lengthy journey. The completion of a published module or adventure of similar length might warrant a youth advancing to adulthood, or perhaps attaining a certain level in an NPC class (perhaps at 3rd or 5th level). If your GM grants your young character the ability to advance into adulthood early, you may choose when to take advantage of that benefit. Your ability scores do not change to reflect your new age category until you retrain an NPC class level.

Maybe the """"""""""GM"""""""""" rewarded him with PC class shit early in the backstory?

>>50896811
>>50896819
>>50896828
He's legal adult age by the start of the game anyway, doesn't really matter.

>>50896819
We're talking about whether or not he's a Mary Sue. Being a full wizard at 14 isn't Sue?

i have no idea what is the topic right now

>>50896842
No, it isn't.

>>50896842

Not really? I'd call it unusual more than sue.

>>50896843

Welcome to /pfg/

>>50896842
Being exceptional does not make you a Mary Sue.

>>50896842
Being a sue requires more than just being a prodigy.

>>50896722
You forget, this is a world where you occasionally get random schlubs powerful enough to dig their way out of the chest-meat of a dragon with their bare hands.
You cannot tell how powerful someone is in Pathfinder just by looking at them, going
>Oh, this group of random schlubs has with it a POWERFUL WIZARD wot'll GO BACK IN TIME AND FUCK YER MUM M8 unless you surrender right now
Is a perfectly valid tactic for threatening.

>>50896897
I believe it also requires a witch hunt.

>>50896801

Jade Regent, Book 6

The other is on the Mivon wiki page, the Lord Commander of the Taldan Navy is level 10 too, same with the toughest Orc chieftain in Belkzen.

How do I build to become the bestest vigilante warlock there ever was? All of those fancy 3pp books are okay

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>>50896917
Friendly reminder that this is a typical Golarion barmaid.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/npc-s/npc-3/barmaid-human-commoner-5

>Barmaid
>Human commoner 5

>Gear dagger, antitoxin, 2,298 gp

Barmaids are weak for CR 3, go kill them for their gold!

>>50896860
>>50896846
>>50896853
Here is a character who is an incredible prodigy, liked by all of their teachers, whose powers of persuasion verge on mind control, took a leadership role in their unit just weeks after joining the army, and was recommended for knighthood by 'all' of their fellow soldiers. Their personal efforts were the only thing that mattered, since more deaths occurred in one night of their negligence than five YEARS of their diligence.

This is a Mary Sue.

Rules Question: do the amulet of mighty fists and the bodywraps of mighty strikes stack with each other?

If not, are there any other good items to improve the attack bonus for a high level master chymist? Right now I have opted for a 18th level char +15 BAB, +3 Str, +5 Amulet of mighty fists, +4 Grand Mutagen, +3 Belt for a total of 30. How can i push this further so i can somewhat reasonably beat an AC of 50? With Paizo only stuff, preferably.

>>50896957

You don't have to kill them, you just have to defeat them.

Suddenly it makes a lot of sense why adventurers try to seduce barmaids.

>>50895862
I'm actually planning on playing FFS's new Penitent race as someone who was half-transformed into a Marilith before being rescued. Once it's out, anyway. I'm p hyped.

>TFW I wrote myself into a shitty corner while improv'ing last session and I want to dump out of it, but I don't know how.

My players were meeting a "father figure" from one of the PC's backstories and it was the first time we'd discussed anything but his name. So the player was dropping hints about him being sadistic and cruel, and that's not really how I played him and it was weird. But I couldn't think of a way to make him menacing (they're level 7 and can fucking take down buildings with ease, not really much a crime-boss can do to be scary since they've killed dozens), and I ended up dropping a hook about a female the PC had history with being a psycho and he needs her back for bounty whatever.

I was literally just looking at an evil female Vigilante with some symbiote power stuff when I was talking, so that became the idea.

But the whole thread seems weak and dumb and now I regret it.

>>50896957
>Kill

Why? Leadership, son.

>>50896917
And Dnd Epic level cities have lvl 20 guards
Because players have to get more levels, things get silly

>>50896976
Nope, both are Enhancement Bonus, which specifically does not stack. You take the highest value and use that.

>>50897019
What if you didn't use them for numbers, but had different abilities on each?

>>50895931
Yes I do, that doesn't justify me being a dipshit.

>>50897115
That should work, much like bows and ammunition, but aren't the wraps like shit to use?

>>50895931
Someone got their fee-fees hurt.

>>50897139

I wish I had my fee-fees hurt!

>>50897161
I'll hurt you >:O!

>>50897172

Do it! Hurt me!

>>50896996
>But I couldn't think of a way to make him menacing

Maybe he's not anymore. Maybe the PC grew into his own and he's just a pathetic level 1 commoner that beats his kid. Now he's a powerless, mean drunk.

>>50897197
>>50897172

This is my fetish

And marking soy sauce as tea.

>>50897303
How could you even confuse soy sauce and tea?

>>50897308
Incorrect markings, duh.

>>50897308

Captcha wont let me through until I mark it as such. It isnt my fault. It does the same with coffee.

>>50897019
Then is there another way to add significantly to the attack bonus of natural attacks? Some sort of item, ideally.

>>50897340

>Asks for sushi
>Pick chicken

>>50897340
Yeah fuck captcha.

>>50897476
>>50897479

>select the tea
>coffee, fruit juice and what looks like a cup of sesame/soy sauce

Which race in Pathfinder is +Con +Int? Every other combination seems represented somewhere.

>>50897613
+Con/Int is the 'We won't do that or it's wizards of that race every time.'

>>50897613

Best bet is to check here. I dont know if con/int exists though

https://i.imgur.com/FXbxffJ.png

>>50895901
Well put it out, man! That skeleton must be in excruciating pain!

>>50897661
>that empty space in CON
>that empty space in CON/INT

wtf paizo

>>50895862
That leg hood is really nice.

>>50897722
Hey, clearly we needed Dex/Int or Dex/Cha races vastly more.

>>50897797

Paizo sure does love their Charisma, don't they?

>>50895862
If a tiefling has the oversized limbs physical feautre, does it mean that if the get claws as natural weapon, do they count as a size larger as with normal manufactured weapons?

Holy fucking shit why do people even care about 2hu's character that much. Yeah, he's a shota trap prodigy minmaxed for diplomacy. Yeah, he can convince trained soldiers to just surrender. Who cares? Also, first people whined that the backstory is edgy but when it's get comfy because nobody wants to die and people prefer to just defect to Glorious Molthune Nation and live as comfy retired veterans in sunny villages it suddenly is Mary Sue and what not. If you just want to shit on him the admit it and stop pretending it's about "quality" of applications or something.

>>50897844
>/pfg/ is one person
>one person witch-hunting means all criticism is witch-hunting
7/10

>>50897844
Do you think this whole thing is based on rational argument, it wouldn't have gotten this out of control if it were.

It's best not to bring it up because nothing good will come from talking about it at this point.

>>50897907
Not like anything good ever comes from any discussion here anyways, desu.

>>50897880
I do not know if it is one person or a whole bunch of frothing autists. The fact is this whole thing is taking dozens of posts of retarded bickering and back-and-forth NO U. People who dislike his charater and are vocal about it will dislike it no matter what you say. People who don't mind him won't suddenly hate him because you shit on it every opportuntiy you have. It's just stupid.

>>50897918
I disagree, I've gotten some solid suggestions on making my character's backstory better. We can be productive here.

>>50897968
pfg can be produtcitve but not when 2hu and his haters are involved.

>>50897979
2hu is fine. Their posts are at least about the game, and while I don't care for their discussions it's very easy to ignore and much less annoying than the witch hunting.

>>50897979
So don't mention them, just talk about something productive instead.

Hey /pfg/, I'm building an Investigator who I want to fight like pic related. I know, so original. Right now, I think I can pull it off with going Empiricist with a two-level dip into MoMS Monk, but I'm not sure which feats to pull from it. Am I on the right path at least? We're starting at level 5. Everything Paizo is allowed, as well as Ultimate Psionics and New Paths Compendium.

>>50897968
Why don't we try discussing some of the other characters, like that new babby dragon who just applied?

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>>50898027

Derp, here's pic.

>>50898036
It introduced me to the True Dragon class and I'm currently lamenting the fact that I'll never be able to play it. My GM simply wouldn't allow it.

>>50898027
Take unarmed combat feats as well as rogue talents that cripple people.

>>50898036
I am semi-regretting that I didn't decide to put the effort in porting Lewis from RotJR to here, but I feel like it'd be for the better. Darius has his own fun daredevilish charm.

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>>50898036
I know who I want to discuss!

>>50897642
So basically the reason this combo can't exist is Paizo KNOW wizards are broken at some subconscious or doublethink level?

Honestly I want it for non-wizard purposes. It wouldn't be hard to put it on some anti-magic race that have some inherent feature that makes them poorer at arcane casting that isn't part of ability scores.

>>50898067
>>50898046
There's also dirty fighting.

>>50898036

Baby dragon is a sweetheart and I want to see how she develops into a righteous exemplar of justice!

>>50898036
She's a cute, I want to polish her scales, hunt with her and go to big fancy balls with her. And later, when my Roc is big enough I want to fly around with her.

Also, I want to use the class in the future, it seems cool.

>>50898036
Liviana is a cute lady and I want fun stories about her and the others helping to raise her kids!

>>50898077
We just need more stories about Alastor being bugged by his little sister about how to be a proper knight, and then brushing him off because he's a big lazy jerk, only to figure out what he said was right and begrudingly thank him with a kiss on the cheek.

>>50898091
You could give them some stiffness problem for inherent arcane spell failure, but I feel like it isn't fair to Maguses when the problem would only be Arcanists, Witches and Wizards. Maguses would continue to have plenty of reasons to pick numerous other races even if +Con/+Int existed.

How many Paladins do we have for Molthune Knights?

How do I unarmed bloodrager tiefling? Demonic blood and abyssal bloodline for +2 STR +2 CHA and 1d6 claws when raging? Should I dip into brawler so that I don't become a feather outside of raging? Maw as an alternate so I can eat people too?

>>50898189
Counts as unremovable light armor, boom done.

>>50898189
Hive that race's magi racial fcb for lessening spell failure. Yes, that's a tax. Not a first thing wizards ruined.

>>50897613
Dreamscarred Press has the Gamla (Feelka subrace) in Akashic Mysteries.

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>>50898136
Stop, Diana is not this cute! She's a very serious, proper noble lady, I swear!

>tfw no beautiful busty bard in Molthune Knights

>>50898318
>tfw there is, but it's a furry

>>50898316

She's a lady that needs some serious, proper headpats! She's going to get spoiled rotten by the people of her village! Spoiled rotten!

>>50898325
no its a catgirl

Also, weren't people asking for a more social setting for Molthune Knights

why are people bitching about someone making a social character

>>50898318
>>50898325

>tfw there is a beautiful busty bard, but she's a lesbian

That Sona idea some threads ago was excellent and it breaks my little tabletop heart it was all a pipe dream.

>>50898360

She's got fur all over her body, anon.

If I can't see nipples unless they're erect, than that girl's a furry.

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>>50896252
>implying it isn't better to have a happy couple for three thousand years
>implying that despite all those folks using magic to lesbian-pregnancy and gay-babies and sex changes, one can't just turn into a motherfucking dragon so some of your kids are purebred as per your wife

It's like you're not even good at love

>>50898360
No the player specifically said he made her like 60% furry because the last time he made a catgirl character /pfg/ bitched him out for not being furry enough.

>>50898363
Because it's not a social character, it's a wizard with Orator.

>>50898390
well what if they are cow?

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>>50898354
Nooo, no headpats! Serious noble lady! Okay maybe some headpats, but only a little.

>>50896324
Well, actually, with the right traits, feats or abilities, you can get diplomacy rolled in hostile conditions with a single round if you're not already in battle, can change them from "hostile" to helpful with a good roll, and can then demand a dangerous request that would also get them severely punished for doing so.

That's potentially two rounds and two rolls.

>>50898392

Shelyn teaches its unhealthy to be that obsessed with someone, anon. Cherish love, but realize you can have multiple true loves in your life!

I'd be totally fine as the 50 year fling of a dragon, honest!

>>50898409

>Holstaurus girl with huge jugs

Anon you're playing with fire here, fire!

>>50898423

Serious Noble ladies take their pleasures when they can, anon! Even the toughest Noble would find the time to sit down and enjoy a glass of wine.

After a tough day administering order to her village, I'm sure this noble lady wants nothing more than to go home, throw herself on her couch, and get a cute guy to stroke her head while praising her!

>>50898409

Cow-girls have always been complicated, mostly because they're either portrayed as thicc chicks with furry lower halves, or monstrous.

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Ya'll bunch of satanist freaks

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>>50898554
>Satan
>not the Great Old Ones

Do you even ftaghn, anon?

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>>50898461
Shelyn thinks people should always be chasing after the next one, but Erastil knows you can have a content and comfy life if you just bother to talk problems through with your spouse instead of running to someone shinier at first opportunity.

Unhealthy obsession is not the only reason for staying together a long time. Some couples are just almost unnaturally monogamous.

>>50898652
Erastil is only concerned that you make a baby and raise it
The old stag knows nothing about true love
true love is free

>>50898608
>Nodens
>Outer God
HE'S AN ELDER GOD, OUTER GODS OUT REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>>50898554
>Thai Cuisine

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>>50898354

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>>50898689

>>50898036
Is Baby Dragon gonna take levels in another class?

>>50898652

This is all true, but we're talking about a dragon that is unwilling to open her heart to humans because she knows her lover will die in the blink of her draconic eye.

Shelyn does not like that view, to her even brief love is something you should seek out, even if the loss of that love from time hurts a little. A dragon living in the company of humans denying herself the affections of the fellows she has feelings for is worse than any potential realization that those fellows should die in 60-70 years.

It's like... Refusing to date in high school because you're moving to a college halfway across the continent. That isn't right!

>>50898765
Pretty sure dragon loves humans like pets or toys

what ethic group are cheliax meant to be?
americans?

>>50898765
I wasn't talking about other dragons, anon.
"longevity" is not exactly difficult to get in this high magic setting. I'm saying she shouldn't go into it thinking "I'll be done with these guys in 50 years and can move on".

>>50898857
more like germans isn't it?

paizo probably assumes plucky cg rebel state is the americans..

>>50898871
>>50898857

Andoran is America, Cheliax is Great Britain with splashes of German and Spanish.

>>50898884
>americans
>good

What are the rules for using other people as mounts?
If you take small creature on your shoulders, could that work?

>>50898864
>I'm saying she shouldn't go into it thinking "I'll be done with these guys in 50 years and can move on".

Of course, you should never go into any relationship thinking about how it's going to be all over in a couple years or decades. What I'm saying is that you shouldn't insist on seeking out ways to increase the lifespan of your lover because you can't stand the thought of losing them. Your Mileage May Vary, but most immortal beings don't stick to one love for the entirety of their immortal lifespans.

I guess I'll just say it plain: There is nothing wrong with a silver dragon loving a human man, because whether that love lasts five years or fifty years or even five thousand, it was still love, and that love was real.

>>50898864
Don't you do that with your pets?
I mean you love them, but still understand the situation that they will die before you.

>>50898910
>worshipping eagles
>not American

I mean, who else in this day and age has a cult around that bird?

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>>50898857
I always thought Cheliax was Italian-ish, especially for the names. Also for the "dealing with the devil" side, like civilians do with Mafia.

>>50898884
More like Cheliax is the worst parts of every major European empire--which isn't so hard to imagine, given that it's basically been re-written by Asmodeus. He basically picked and chose all those bits specifically to make it a dystopia.

>>50898992

Ultimately I think this all stems from the innate desire not to admit a man or woman could love someone, spend time fucking and loving and having kids with that person, and then move onto someone else.

It's gotta be 100% pure monogamy forever with the first person you get the heart flutters for.

>>50899033

Cheliax was like that *before* they became an Infernal Empire, which has only been a thing for the last 60 years.

>>50899003
Germans

>>50899003
russians also had the twin headed eagle

>>50899052
oh so they are literally nazis

>>50898992
You have no idea the level of denial pet owners have about the longevity of their favorite family-members.

And I mean *FAMILY*. I have people coming in with 4 year old mice begging to cure the snakefood's fucking cancer. We can't do that; we can't even tell if it'll die of general"old age reasons" before the cancer does the job!

Over in china, when kids started getting their own place rather than having the parents move in with the new couple when they get married, those little dogs were the replacement for their grandchildren. They baby the things, dress them up, buy them designer fucking clothes, and those little dogs end up not even remotely little.

It's not just your ten year old son that refuses to believe the puppy he grew up with is arthritic and about to die. People get attached to those animals and don't ever want to think about them croaking.

And that's not counting pets like certain parakeets and cocatiels where when you buy a fledgling you need to figure out which of your unborn grandchildren will get it when you die.

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>>50898318
There will be a beautiful busty foxwife. Ultimately I have decide to go for that Disguise and hide my ears and tail. It will be all the cuter when they come out at the least appropriate of times.

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I'm working on an elven spymaster for this too, using some stuff from the Legendary Vigilantes playtest that wasn't published just yet, so I'll probably have to get it to the GM. Seriously, Talented Tacitician was just so cool!

>>50899266
I will find that tail, and I will touch it.

I'm looking at the unchained mink, and I'm thinking that it could be the highest tier 4 martial yet.

Flying kick, pummeling charge, dimensional dervish all grant longer ranges of pounce...and you probably only want one of them. Whuch do you think it's best for general use?

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>>50899234
>mfw I adore classes that have an animal following them around, be it companion or familiar
>mfw these suckers will maybe live for a decade or two tops, maybe three or four for some animals, outside of rare corner cases
>mfw I always figure by the end of the adventure the animal(s) will probably be sapient and at least moderately intelligent somehow
>that sucker will probably realize it won't live very long compared to the PC they're attached to

I don't know if I want to feel these feels, anon. I came here to make jokes about cats, not be sad about them.

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>>50899625
>unchained mink

>>50899686
God dammit...

>>50899667
How long do Rocs live?

>>50899728
Around ninety years, as far as i recall. you could have one as a companion for life, assuming something doesn't kill it.

>>50895981
>>50897739
I liked it at first, then I realized that it was more or less stuck like that. She can't put it down without squeezng her legs together, which would look really stupid.

It's definitely lewd though. If she was anatomically correct it would be okay for an ERP.

>>50899686
Behold true power.

>>50899625
Pummeling style is the best range of pounce, and you can use it with dimensional assault. The problem is that dragon style is awesome, and you can't use both. Plus when you activate the style you lose an attack due to spending your swift.

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>>50899744
Alright, follow up, what's a good name for a Roc, Pet Shop doesn't seem appropriate and Horus exists in canon so I'd rather not go with that.

>>50899879
Dwayne

>>50899885
Perfect

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So, if your character is able to magically disguise themselves as other races/genders/etc, and is currently at the start of a game doing so for the sake of 'not getting killed' (due to a combination of racial prejudice, in this case, being a drow; and running away from a very angry, very rich customer), for the 'character art' part of the sheet, should you put their natural/usual appearance or their current disguise?

Picture related for one of those!

>>50899885
Dwayne Dibbley

>>50899945
You need to make sure the other players know what their characters are looking at, so changing the description often is a good idea.

At least, that's how I'd do it.

>>50899945
disguise but let the GM know, obviously.

after all some people can see through this stuff.

>>50899945
how is thicc elf related?

>>50899885
I think the memes on that one are too strong for my taste. Even though it's a great Roc name.

>>50899992

Character's natural form, and it's my experience that character questions provided alongside an image is more likely to get replies than one without, so I figured I'd throw it in there.

>>50898136
No we need more stories of Alastor trying to pass stuff off on Old Spy, and Old Spy being a Vietnam Grandpa.

>>50900007
I think it just qualifies as wordplay, but it's up to you. Are you looking for anything vaguely bird related then, or just a name?

>>50900152
Just a nice pet name for a beloved companion. Having some relevant meaning is a bonus.

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>never drink
>play 'holiday drinking game' at PF involving rolling badly because due to desperately wanting to please friends at the table (you can "bank" 19-20 rolls to veto your 1-4 range drink rolls on yourself and I never rolled 19 or 20)
>is like being under a charm spell among other effects already
>Interrogation castings come up from the party Inquisitor and 3/4 drunk ppl agree it would be fun to have it work like truth or dare IRL and out of character
>be made to confess with teasing Interrogates to being totally fucking in love with all 3 other people at the table
>come home and realize I can never show my face outside again
How did your drunk holiday games go this year /pfg/?

>>50900178
What about Garuda?

It's the enormous solar bird that served as the mount for Lord Vishnu and the mythical inspiration for the roc.

>>50895862
Why have sunken legs like that? Why not evolve the legs into a another set of arms?

>>50900190
3 characters or 3 people anon? If the latter how the fuck are you in love with 3 people at your table? You can only have 1 waifu.

>>50900190
>come home and realize I can never show my face outside again

I mean, drunk can always be an excuse, or that it was a dumb joke your drunk mind thought was funny.

However, I heartily recommend checking if any of them might reciprocate.

>>50900212
I am fully into ruining my laifu, it's too late for me

>>50900220
No, you don't recover from that. Anyone you pursue will know you are also in love with the other two.

>>50900063
>And you say you need six thousand gold for a...what did you call it again? Kick ass Alchemy Lab?
>That's the scientific term for it, yes.
>And what are these things here?
>That's the mini bar, it's very important.
>Important to the alchemy?
>God no, it's important to the entire village, how else are we going to survive without it?
>...Six thousand gold?
>You're saying that like it's a lot.

>>50899625
>>50899834
Flying Kick has the easiest accessibility. Range is on the shorter side but I think it's usually enough, and it lets you spread the damage around if you would overkill something that starts in range of you.

>>50900231
I'm a firm believer in working things out between adults.

So they know that if you had feelings for other people at the same time, it was built up or fade as you learn you can focus on one person.

I don't know the circumstances, if it's a sexuality barrier, or some of them are dating, etc.

>>50900190
>1-4 drink range
How fucking hammered did these people want to get?

Is there a way to make a ranged disarm or trip attack at your full BAB, and not only once per round? My Ranger kind of hinges on it.

>>50900317
If there is, it's probably locked to a specific archetype and not available to rangers.

>>50899625

You forgot Flaming Crow Strike

>>50900204
Aren't Garudas also Outsiders of some description in Pathfinder?

>>50900317
No, there isn't.

Even Archer Fighter and the tactics toolbox feats are once per round.

That'd be really good if there was. The closest is a whip build.

>>50900401
Oh, so they are.

Well, best of luck. Apparently Simurghs are in pathfinder too.

I quit.

>tfw my character is a dwarf
>tfw lived underground for most of his life
>tfw based on the "dream of sky"
>tfw not magical flight or just a little bit of flight
>tfw my dwarf wants to go to space non-magically
>tfw my Molthune Knight was to become a dwarven astronaut

Too stupid?

>>50900467
I mean the elves did it.

Hell, it makes sense just to not let the knife-ears one up you.

>>50896373
Probably quadrupedal, but I've not actually checked. What do things like Rocs or other large birds counted as for it?

>>50896373
Quadrupedal

How do I craft a character for maximum Jon Snow?

>>50900467

Are you a melon

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>>50900340
>>50900424
Outside of using trip arrows, I guess this whole idea is a waste. Hrmm.

>>50900487

The elves used stargates.

>>50900498
Put no ranks into knowledge skills.

>>50900498
Make sure not to put any ranks in any knowledges.

>>50900498
Spell-less ranger variant.

>>50900514
Just shows they're cheaters.

>>50900467
The question is, is Dwarven Kerbal comfy?

>>50900498

Charming trait and an adamantine bastard sword (or would Valyrian Steel be mithral?)

Jon Snow's a dumbie, but women love him! High charisma!

>>50900514
>>50900541
No, they didn't, they used a bound vrock.

Look up Lirgen's Glory.

>>50900589
>using magic
CHEATING!

So /pfg/, for the drow body artist I've been working on, and who is refereanced here >>50899945 , I am pondering what to do for their usual disguise. They have the shifting transformation feat out of spheres, so they can basically take any medium humanoid shape of any gender; I'm pondering what's best for that. My current thought is a male of some sort, but I'm not sure if I want to go with elf, half-elf, or maybe something different; something to work with the psychology of drow, though, a 'no drow would ever disguise themselves as THAT' thing. Any ideas?

>>50900636
The drow disguises herself as a kitsune.

>>50900636

Most people don't even know the Drow exist.

My advice? Make her an elf of the same figure and features as she does now, just brown instead of black. For all intents and purposes she's in the clear! She's safe! The brown skin is not only there to make her feel more comfortable (if you lived all your life orange, than going red will be less of a shock than blue) and the minor change will throw off pursuers; reports were of a dark elf living in Sandpoint, the agents expected a Drow, but it turns out she was the wrong *kind* of darkness.

Sometimes the best disguises are subtle.

>>50900379
Blood crow strike, but yes, they are flaming crows, so technically same difference.
'Round my table we just call it hadoken.

>>50900589
I see they went full Event Horizon.

>>50900758
Golarion Drow are bluish purple, not black

>>50900766
The last half of that movie was so disappointing. Didn't manage to capitalize on the atmosphere it had built at all.

>>50900778

Purple, black, different colors same answer; make her brown or some other shade that would help her quality of life and provide disguise to potential Drow hunters.

>>50900283
We were going on only "bitch drinks" as they called them (girls words not mine), so probably low alcohol content. Something superhigh would bprobably be lethal in those rules, yeah.

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/pfg, advice alternative rules or homebrew for ship combat! UC and SS looks like piece of shit.

>>50900820
That could mean anything. I've seen it used to describe HIGH alcohol content drinks masked in sweet fruity flavors, sometimes it just means weak shit. Whenever I've heard a woman use the term it referred to the former, fyi. I mean Jesus mate you gotta know what you're drinking before you down it.

>>50900916

>tfw some dork girl I knew had me take a shot of Romulan Ale

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Good morning, shitpost land. How goes?

>>50900898
Have you tried adapting Stormwrack for Pathfinder?

>>50900941

It's evening, you whacky dragon child. Eat any rats lately? That might be a good way to help your village.

>>50900898
Stat the ships as macro-classes. Some ships are fighters, some ships are rogues, some ships are wizards. If people are at the helm you can use those actions on a macro scale which affect the enemies' ships. If you try to fight a ship as a person, say it has 10x the HP and deals 2x the damage of a person because people shouldn't be able to fight ships.

>>50900956
>Evening
It's 1:15 PM, silly.

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>>50900956
That's racist, Sir Anon. I have access to the only source of ice cream within several hundred miles --why would I choose to dirty my palate with rats?

If I spot them, I merely freeze them and toss them over the wall to thaw. The humane way, obviously.
^(hasn't even checked to see if they survive or not)

>>50900941
Great Old Ones slowly gnawing at my very soul, so to speak, me trying to make characters who are faithful, diligent, and convicted - everything I could never be, and wondering if maybe life would be easier as a mindless shambling undead. Zombies don't need student loans their indebted parents can't cosign on, nor do they hate themselves for existing the moment someone mention starving orphans.

It's pathetic, I know, but I've learned to live with it.

Oh, wait, you meant in my games. I haven't heard from our GM in a while so we're probably not seeing them until January.

Also, my meatspace GM might be switching us to Jade Regent after our hiatus ends.

>>50900956
Don't bully! Dragons are proud hunters who wouldn't stoop so low as to hunt something so pedestrian.

>>50900991
What's your favorite flavor of icecream?

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>>50900950
Nope. I don't even read this. It makes sense?
And what about rules for air vehicles combat?

>>50900985

Well it's 4:19 PM here! Which makes it afternoon I guess, but in 40 minutes it will be evening!

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>>50900960
Sounds reasonable. Thanks for advice.

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>>50901005
... Wait...

Are you suggesting... Are you suggesting that instead of just churning frozen and sugared heavy cream, we add bits of fruit to it?

You're mad. It would become too sweet! Or could we simply tone down the sugar!? What flavor would even work???

>>50900991

>Freezes rats
>Tosses them over the wall
>Doesn't even care if they survive

That's cold.

>>50901029

Why not add vanilla extract and chunks of chocolate?

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>>50901029
FUCK SILVER, WHITE BEST!

>>50901029
By toning down the sugar, berries of many varieties could make the ice cream delicious, and they make it a delightful fruity color too.

If you're feeling adventurous we can even add multiple different berries to a single batch!

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>>50901065

>>50901058
Where in Golarion are cocoa beans grown?

>>50901065
Chromatic dragons are kill on sight.

>>50901028
It's not reasonable at all, I was bullshitting you. I cannot even imagine all the ways that would be horrible.

>>50901069
There are various herbs one can use as well. And I don't only mean mint.

What's a good ring for a bow Ranger?

I need a bit of advice on Kurat's build.

Is there anything egregious I have done? It's my first time using a myth-weaver's sheet and honestly I feel like I flubbed my math somewhere.

http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=1051321

>>50901096

Sargava and Geb, probably. Chocolate *is* a thing in the setting, maybe she has a greenhouse for growing it?

>>50901111
About two months salary.

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>>50901097
>I cannot even imagine
Just read Ultimate Combat rules for vehicles.

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>>50901048
OH, HOW INVENTIVE OF YOU. I'M NOT TOO COLD, YOU ARE ALL JUST TOO WARM.

>>50901058
Chocolate! Do you imply I should take a sojourn to Mwangi and fraternize with pirates as well!? Where would I get chocolate!

>>50901065
Apsu expresses his disappointment. Perish, son of Tiamat! Your corruption ends here!

>>50901069
We... are treading new ground here, humans. If we do not make it out alive, I will remember your names.

>>50901113
What I am debating now is getting rid of VMC witch and instead getting Deadly Agility at that level.

As if my attack with my sword cane is:
1d6-1 damage or 1d6+1 if I power attack.

With Deadly Agility it goes up to 1d6+3 or 1d6+5 with power attack.

Any feats that allow me to spend ki into interesting stuff? I feel that I have lots of ki points but nothing in where to spend them (only extra attack and barkskin)

>>50901113
>I need a bit of advice
>swordcane
Just... refluff... rapier.
Swordcane is terrible nonsense. Even worse than just a cane.

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>>50901133
I think that's quite enough out of you, young man.

Don't make me send you to your room.

This thread has gotten fucking Gaia tier.

>>50901180
Tiamat seems to have outgrown shame in her old age.

>>50901177
>Any feats that allow me to spend ki into interesting stuff?
Bewildering Koan.

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>>50901180
Why that dragon got titties?

Don't give the draggo titties

>>50901123
For real, what should I use besides Ring of Protection?

>>50900283
Well with a 19-20 'get out of jail free card' range it doesn't sound that bad. Almost the same as having a 1-2 drinks range. Until someone gets fucked silly by the dice and subsequently deflowered as a starting-drinker like anon did, I mean.

>>50901160
One other point is the combat gets a good deal better next level when I get studied strike and studied combat.

If I go all out back into melee I could actually reduce my int to 16 and get my dex to 18, get rid of VMC and grab deadly agility instead, as well as get rid of Deific Obedience for Two Weapon Fighting.

This would put me at, level 4:
>attack
+9 to attack w/o power attack & twf
+6 to attack w/ power attack & twf

>damage
Main Hand; Sword Cane 1d6+4(6)+1d6 (with studied strike, parentheses is power attack)
Off Hand; Dagger 1d4+4(5)+1d6

Or a total of 1d4+3d6+8(11), which is a respectable amount.

What this would cost is:
+7 to diplomacy
+2 to sense motive
+2 to perception
+4 to knowledge (nobility)
A good familiar scout (+28 to stealth)
Not come online till level 4

>>50901186
Whatever do I have to be ashamed of, dear?
>>50901211
Why would I not?

>>50901178

Oh shush, there's nothing wrong with the swordcane in a comfy campaign.

File: oreimo2_13-3.png (965KB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

965KB, 1280x720px

>>50901133
We should go hunting for dinner together and pick berries while we're out there. Then we can experiment with what flavors make for the best dessert after a delicious meal.

I love post-bump-limit threads.

>>50901182
Please, Gaia has far more of a sense of shame than this place.

>>50901273
You should be ashamed that you allow kirino lovers like >>50901276 to exist.

How broken would an Oracle archetype be if it gave an Oracle, regardless of Mystery, an Animal Companion with familiar features stapled onto it. Assuming I have it then kill mystery bonus spells and possibly one or two revelations past the 1st. Maybe dig around and add in some of the more obscure animal companion/familiar-related feats. Like Telepathic Link.

Trying to homebrew archetypes is fun, but sometimes I realize just how redundant a lot of ideas are.

>>50901289
I don't even like Kirino, but when my character is a tsundere adopted little sister there are few characters who's likenesses are more appropriate to borrow.

Is what this guy says true? That a spiked shield is an entirely different item, which you can then add bashing to as an armor upgrade, which makes it a larger armor item, from which you derive its weapon effect, which THEN gets impact enchanted on it?

It seems a long and complicated stack, and I have no idea how to deal with the RAW for that strange thing.

>>50901289
Divinity doesn't imply omnipotence, dear.

>>50901332
If you don't seek to wipe out the blight that is kirino then you deserve no worship.

>>50901340
I don't GET worship usually, hun.

I'm retired. Did you skip your history classes?

>>50901328
Nope. Shield Spikes are an upgrade to a shield that make it deal damage as if it were one size larger.

If it were like ARMOR SPIKES, and the spikes themselves were a separate weapon (perhaps one that did damage of a shield one size larger than the shield they're applied to), then he'd have a case.

But as-is, it's an improvement to the effective size category of a shield. So it doesn't stack with Bashing.

>>50901328
Total bullshit. Sounds like one of the molthune applicants. Claiming that the spikes, armor enchant and weapon enchant all allow it to stack does not make it so. He's purposefully misinterpreting very small parts of the rules as they are written, and outright raping the RAI.

He "knows" he's right and refuses to just grab armory of the conqueror or something else.

>>50901400
It's not even the RAI.

Shield spikes are an effective size increase.

>>50901277

They're /pfg/ at our best and worst and I love them.

Wich one does more damage, Dragon style or Jabbing style?

>>50901421
>>50901400
>>50901398
what about spiked shields, though? not shields you then add spikes to but the weapon "spiked shield"?

>>50901426
depends on how much strength you have I assume

>>50901426
Dragon if you have a high strength, Jabbing if you don't.

>There are people that would unironically REEE at picking an Aldori Dueling Sword over a greatsword
>There are people that would unironically REEE at picking a sword cane over a rapier

Why? Everyone knows the static numbers are the ones that matter.

>>50901451
The dueling sword has its own ups and downs, but the sword cane is actively shittier than the rapier when you should just be able to refluff the Rapier.

>>50901446
>>50901449
How much strenght should I have to even it out?

>>50901432
Here's how shield spikes work. A shield bash is a martial bludgeoning weapon that does damage based on its size. Shield spikes switch the damage type to piercing and add on an effective size increase.

>>50901451
Sword cane is x2, rapier is 18-20/x2, and crit range REALLY matters.

>>50901432
The spiked shield entries on the weapons page are just for shields with spikes attached to them.

I mean unless you're going to argue that Spiked Shields are their own thing and don't have the shield spikes upgrade, thus letting you make a spiked spiked shield.

And it could then be argued that a spiked spiked shield isn't actually a shield, but just a weapon, since 'spiked shield' isn't in the armor/shields list.