40K End times?

It's because they're edgelords, okay?
GW made the mistake YES I SAID IT MOTHERFUCKERS, IT WAS A MISTAKE decades ago of marketing to metalheads and putting out some really good Chaos books, and ever since there's been a feedback loop of new hires being chaosfags, grimderping the setting harder, thus attracting more chaosfags and so on. They really want Chaos to win as it's the edgefaggiest outcome, so they're constantly pushing toward that resolution as much as they can, against corporate's obvious desire to still have a product to sell. In a weird way I think they were happy when WHFB's sales started to flag so they could have Chaos win canonically once and for all.

Otherwise they would've retconned the Emperor to be slowly healing circa 2002.

This thread is going to be full of butthurt Taufags that want to win 40k.

But the Orks won already.

>>50888992

Chaos can be slated to win and yet not actually win because the setting is kept in a stasis of sorts.

There isn't going to be a 40k End Times simply because GW has nothing to gain from it. Regardless of how the fans felt, GW must have ultimately judged that they could cut themselves loose of most of Fantasy's trappings and still rely on 40k. If they cut 40k then they have nothing to fall back on.

>>50889629

Chaos winning is arguably the most fitting choice for a bad end because it's the most depressing and most meaningful. The galaxy continuing to exist except with some xeno species replacing humanity as dominant doesn't have as much impact as the laws of the universe anything resembling reason being thrown out the window by the embodiment of humanity's worst aspects.

>>50889649

These "end times" threads have been the worst 40k lore threads in memory

Thematically and mechanically it is appropriate for the slow spiral into the ultimate victory of the Dark Gods. How do you actually prevail against something not constrained by time? Ultimately though, it is only one viewpoint of many, many authors that have their own views and would drag the setting in the direction they want to.

And yeah, 13th Black Crusade Redux: This Time for Serious really feels like End Times. GW doesn't have any reason to reboot the series this time around so they are probably going to push the clock from one minute to one second to midnight. Just to boost sales.

>>50889840

Why have they been anyway? They start out okay then it turns into shitfling central.

Is the 40k appeal dieing on /tg/?

>>50889844
>something not constrained by time?

Why do people keep saying this?

>>50889860

They turn into "shit flinging central" as you put it because people are invested in the setting and in the armies they play. I play an imperium army. I like my army. I have spent a lot of money on my army and a lot of time to build them. I am understandably upset that some jackass has decided that i have no chance of victory whatsoever. Even if they advance to second from midnight without ending the scenario all the smug chaos fags are gonna piss me off. So yes, i'll probably pop into one of these threads even though i know all it's gonna do is piss me off and ruin my night to express my displeasure. And some chaos fag is gonna get in my face about his inevitable victory and how kewl chaos is and how the imperium is a dying shit hole, and i'll be irritated and i'll probably respond unkindly. Multiply this by a dozen other posters each with a different army who are slotted not to win and a dozen choas fanboys who won't shut up about it, and we get the circle jerks that are these threads. Where we post the same damn things over and over and nothing really gets done, but everyone leaves angrier than they were when they came in. And then we wait a bit and cool down, and then some fucker starts the thread again and we go back to square one.

>>50889860

Because they're basically just bullshit arguments with no real meaningful ways of concluding. One person likes Chaos and think they should win, another likes one of the Xenos races and think they should, etc. They're also filled with people dumb enough to believe that GW is going to kill their golden goose because they chopped the neck off of the goose that stopped laying golden eggs years ago.

>>50889889

Because its been repeated over and over again that the Warp is unbound by time? That's how spaceships get lost for thousands of years or pop out before they even went into the Warp at all. Also, Slaanesh existed before its corresponding moment in real space and had a hand in The Fall that ultimately gave birth to it. Time is of the physical.

>>50889860
>Is the 40k appeal dieing on /tg/?
>on /tg/

>>50889955

I doubt it since most 40k threads are still posted outside the general.

Is the 40k general that shit for this reason?

>>50889973

It is.

Why do you think people still post 40k threads? The general is just straight up terribad but the RPG general is aight.

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>>50889860

These threads are just shit with the "age of emperor memers" and some other shit.

My bet GW doesnt do anything but the skub faggots take shit to far.

>>50889941

That just makes them seem even more incapable of winning. Normally they would have had 10,000+ years to beat the other factions in, but if they can go all nonlineartimeLOL then they've had all of history from the beginning of time on out to work with, and still haven't won yet.
Either they're constrained somehow so that time travel is not easy and useful, in which case bringing that up is pointless because it doesn't actually matter, or they really suck at accomplishing anything.

>>50889997

I'm not sure what purpose the 40k general even serves other than as an easy compilation of resources. I don't think 40k in recent times as ever reached the point where it has drowned out all other discussion.

>>50890103

I just go there to grab stuff out of the mega files myself. Occasionally ask about a list or for some advice if i'm feeling brave.

>>50888992
are you the "curze is coming back as a demon primarch" shithead from the 40k generals?

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>>50890120
>going on generals

The Horus Heresy made modern 40k lore enjoyable in alot of regards and The Beast Arises

That or modern BL shitheads I mean fuck where are all those good space marine short stories? Or Ciaphas Cain adventures, or that good eldar book?

Now its muh marines with daddy issues and dumb ass power levels as fans continue to suck primarch cock.

>>50890157
UNENJOYABLE

I MEANT UNENJOYABLE

>>50890157
>The Horus Heresy made modern 40k lore enjoyable in alot of regards
What the entire fuck
I've seen some shit on these boards, but you are one sick bastard

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>>50890175

That was a close one anon

>>50890100

They are always fighting each other too remember? The Great Game is played just as much Dark God versus Dark God as it is Dark God versus Mortals. And why the fuck would you count "not having won YET" as them when yet is a meaningless construct to them? Comparatively that would be like telling an opponent in an arm wrestling match that has the lead that they haven't beaten you in Canada yet. Its a non sequitur. A meaningless distinction from their point of view.

>>50890157

Master of Mankind has done a lot to paint the Primarchs as fucking dumb. The Emperor never intended for them to look at him like a father. He finds the entire concept as uncomfortable and undesirable and he only tolerates their delusion because it doesn't compromise their usefulness to him.

I think that is really great. ADB has essentially made the Emperor's stance "You are all a bunch of grown ass men! Stop asking me to wipe your asses and kiss your boo boos better!"

>>50890235

It seems to me if they can go back in time then the other factions ought to have been fucked before they got off the ground, infighting or no.
Like why weren't any of the Shamans that would eventually have created the Emperor corrupted or attacked? That seems like a lot of juicy targets all split up and you could eliminate the guy before he exists.
But the warp was calm back then, even though tha Chaos gods all totally existed.

It's all self-contradictory and doesn't make any sense.

>inb4 that's because CHAOS!

>>50890282

It still doesnt change my opinion on that shit book series

>>50890288
Weren't the chaos gods only properly manifested after the creation of the big E?
They existed but only as aspects of the calm warp, it was only once mankind had built itself up and the eldar has murder raped their way through all the kittens that the gods really formed up as distinguishable aspects of the emotional spectrum of the many races.
(This may be bullshit....)

If chaos winning leads to the destruction of the empire which leads to humanity being unable to defend itself from xeno threats which leads to MASSIVE dieoffs of humanity won' that lead to weakened chaos powers as they have then only a minute .001 percentage of the floopy mental energies they used to get? ORKS WIN

>>50890100

Chaos to me more has time on its side because it doesn't entirely have to worry about attrition. The CSM that have been around since the Great Crusade or Horus Heresy don't have to worry about dying from old age. Daemons are impossible or extremely hard to permanently be rid of. There will always be droves of people who can be tempted to serve as hordes.

I don't recall anything saying that Chaos itself can time travel, only that time travel has happened to certain individuals as a result of warp travel.

>>50890157

40k has seemingly always been Marines, Guard, or Chaos. Honestly the only Eldar stuff I can remember is all relatively recent and the majority of it likely by Thorpe. If Guard has suffered a decrease is possibly because the gamut of what can be done with them has been run.

>>50890282

ADB's interpretation feels like the one that makes the most sense when you look at the Emperor's actions with regards to the Primarchs and how he doesn't give a shit about their personal problems and gets mad when they don't do what he wants.

This could have possibly been why Chaos scattered the Primarchs in the first place. By doing so the majority were able to grow up akin to actual humans and develop their own personalities and values instead of just being the Emperor's souless tools.

>>50890454

IG have gone down in popularity

We need new blood possibly not a commissar this time maybe a new named Catachan character

>>50890407
Technically Necrons win. Orks are weak as shit and get fucked over by everyone. Necrons are Tyranids are least affected by Chaos fuckery. Chaos kills itself by suceeding,

So that leaves Necrons vs Tyranids. Necrons have as large as empire as Man but far superior technology and don't have any biomass for the Nids to eat.

Only way Necrons lose is if they fail to deploy their anti-Chaos magitech and get fucked up by the whole galaxy going Eye of Terror style.

>>50890377
>Weren't the chaos gods only properly manifested after the creation of the big E?

Yeah, that's what I though, but this guy's talking like they exist entirely outside of time, and thus once they are created, then they've always been there and can act at any point, even before they existed. It sounds pretty unlikely to me.
I mean, time shenanigans can happen, according to lots of stuff, but it doesn't look to me like Chaos can really use it intentionally for any purpose.

>>50890454
>I don't recall anything saying that Chaos itself can time travel, only that time travel has happened to certain individuals as a result of warp travel.

That's what I thought, but the guy upthread was making it sound like chaos had a time-travel "I win" button.

>>50890471

A Catachan commissar? Sure thing

>>50890288

Okay, let's all agree that the Necron Codex was a mistake and the whole "the warp was calm back then" thing was a load of counter to the canon bullshit. Its either that, or for some reason the Dark Gods came to a decision that they couldn't fuck with anybody back then. It makes a certain kind of sense that they would ensure their own existence.

And stop framing it as going back in time. Going back in time is a concept only to things that exist within time. As beings that exist out of time they are perfectly aware of all points they exist. They don't have to go back to the past. They already exist in the past. They still enter the Warp at a particular point in space and time and expand backwards, forwards and sideways. That point still needs to be protected and even coaxed into being. So Slaanesh for example has to keep the conditions of its birth protected for it to exist. If it ever failed to protect its birth, it would from our perspective never be. Meaning that Slaanesh successfully keeps the timeline up to the point of The Fall exactly how it needs to be born.

>>50890377
no, yer right - chaos is not a timetravelling uber bad. chaos loses just as hard as every other faction. Enslavers rule, as they always have.

>>50890505

Listen mate you can't just disregard canon like that, any more than we can disregard stuff in the chaos dexs and say its bullshit. If it doesn't make sense or it doesn't support your claim, well thats just too bad. It's canon. Furthermore where in the hell are you pulling this timeless stuff from. I see you or someone like you in all the threads pushing this, but i've never seen the dex and page that says it. I request that you provide me your source.

>>50890472
>he doesn't know that tyranids 'eat' everything

>>50890505
don't be dumb

>>50890537
But they explicitly don't.

>>50890480

A Catachan commissar sounds badass

>>50890537

I thought necron metal bugs infected non-necrons when necon-non-meat was ingested?

>>50890531
I think the timeless claim is based on the general idea that gods existing in an alternate dimension might not have to obey linear time.
The warp can cause time travel by accident because time moves differently there, but we have no proof that it is navigable. On top of that remember that whilst the warp is the gods, the gods are also the warp, and so in the same why I can manipulate carbon to a certain degree, I don't control it entirely and I am still forced to submit to it's rules. (fucking carbon, always acting like it's the fucking boss of me!)

>>50890513
I thought I was but I wasn't sure if that had been changed.

>>50890572

Since Commissars never serve with a regiment from their home world what kind of regiment should he serve with?

>>50890576
Wasn't there a fluff segment about a tyranid bio ship absorbing necron metal and the marines trying desperately to destroy it before it made it back to the hive fleet proper to ensure that the evolution wasn't carried throughout the race?
The tyranids had been trying to absorb the necrons but failing over and over and over again but this one bioship did manage it.

I can't remember if the ship managed to pass it's evolution on to the hive fleet.

>>50890505
>And stop framing it as going back in time

Doesn't matter how you frame it, it adds up to the same thing. I'm with the other guy, sources or gtfo.

>>50890583

Either one of those rich kid regiments or some urban one.

Basically he has a normal commissar design with Catachan touches and his red bandanna visibly tied on right shoulder

>>50889827
>because it's the most depressing and most meaningful.

More like most stupid.

Chaos destroying the Imperium is a valid outcome. The Emperor dying - the entire universe EXPLODES because reasons is just lazy, stupid as fuck writing.

The universe got along just fine without the Emperor before his creation, and if we are being honest the Emperor was never all that powerful. He is, like, 20 moderately psychic dudes from earth's prehistory added together. Get 10 Eldar in a room and you have the psychic powers of the emperor at your disposal.

Alpha plus psykers have already performed feats of psychic power far beyond anything the emperor ever did. The Emperor's best stuff was all science and genetics and whatnot. If he was on par with an alpha-plus psyker, he wouldn't have NEEDED the Thunder Warriors or the space marines, he could have taken over planets singlehandedly with his mind.
He didn't, because he COULDN'T. That means there are a handful of psykers alive right now in 40k who are more powerful than the Emperor ever was.

The Emperor dying destroying the universe is asinine, and only makes sense as something cultists tell their kids as a bedtime story.

>>50890580

Okay, well that's not unreasonable, but that's not source material. We can apply logic to 40k and get many many different outcomes. That's the beauty of interpretation. I could point out that sci-fi writers generally have a terrible grasp of scale, and that logically the Imperiums armies should be much larger than they are, and if they were as large as they should be logically then they really should just steam roll the shit out of everything, but everyone would call bullshit. The only thing that provides anything we should be able to agree on is canon (saddly sometimes people are unhappy with canon. I am often unhappy with it. But this isn't a fan fic, its a discussion of lore, and in a discussion of lore we should stick to the actual lore), otherwise it's nothing but our conflicting suppositions. Therefore no argument or claim should be made without a source.

>>50890602

That'd be cool. A Tyranid ship successfully absorbs necron material and in doing so is twisted into something neither 'cron nor nid. A rogue grey goo deified by defiled techpriests

>>50890580
Also, the Well of Eternity exists, and Kairos was sent there because even Tzeentch can't tell with perfect accuracy the future. (And whatever was there can frak up a daemon really bad)

>>50890627

Hmmm so the Firstborn are an option. We could stick him with Armageddon Steel Legionaries or Kriegers. For maximum giggles stick him with that stuck up not!french regiment from the rpg books that canonically hates Catachans.

>>50890665

Also uses a power fist and plasma pistol.

You never see those 2 weapons on the other OG commissars

>>50889941

Time is wonky in the warp, but the chaos gods DO NOT get a say in that wonkiness. They feed on the emotions of living things. That means they are directly impacted by the events of a linear universe in a linear fashion.

Much in the same way that I live on a planet that has weather, the chaos gods exist in a universe where time is occasionally screwy. But I am not a tidal wave who controls volcanos. Likewise, the Chaos gods can't actually control time and bend that power to their whim.

As proof, I submit the fact that the entire chaos space marines army is NOT a literally infinite number of copies of 'powered up by all four chaos gods' Warmaster Horus, each one ripped from a separate instant of the time stream. Because Chaos can't DO that.

>>50890665
>>50890688

So how does this Catachan commissar come to be?

>>50890583
necromunda spiders? Bringing in his jungle warfare techniques into the urban jungle of the underhive? engaging in long drawn out guerrilla campaigns in the build up to the "liberation" of a rogue planet?

Or counter, A hive ganger who blagged his way to commisar but gets stationed with the catachans due to his superiors really not liking his dirty blue collar origins.
After he pulls some gang style shiv murder on a squad member who tries to assassinate him the men begrudgingly accept him and he goes on to lead them through a number of death world missions whilst using his position as a nobody in a seemingly insignificant regiment to subvert the aspirations of his superiors who tried to get him murdered. Maybe he fights with the knife of his would be assassin as a sign of his acceptance and eventually he goes down fighting with it, missing an arm and screaming catachan curses.

>>50890531

Daemon Codex. I don't know which edition. Sorry man. I think there is also some mention of it in the most recent Dark Eldar book but my memories aren't reliable on that one. All I remember is that the Daemon codex makes the point of saying that the Fall birthing Slaanesh is a construct of limited mortal perspective.

Either way it is the logical conclusion based off of what we know of the mechanics of Warp Travel. If we have a bunch of third person omniscient narrator perspectives telling us that Slaanesh was born of The Fall only to be contradicted later by claiming that it is a flaw of mortal perspective than I am willing to say that same thing applies to the third person omniscient narrator claiming that the Warp was calm in the time of the Old Ones. The Dark Gods existing as they do rely on a certain mortal chronology to happen. They are all one great big knot of space and time that rely on each other existing to exist and yet have to fight each other because their fighting each other is what ensures they exist. The rarely mentioned 'minor chaos gods' like out of the 3rd edition codex can be interpreted as Chaos Gods that might have been but were prevented from existing by the machinations of the Great Game. Never existing but sorta existing.

>>50890688

But he's from Catachan. The man needs his machete.

>>50890637
Nah man, Chaos-influenced Tyranids being lead by Malal.

>>50890725

Game over man, game over!

>>50890717

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and not call bullshit, but i am going to have to go read those dexs now once i download them from the general. Eh, whatever. I got my minis and i like them. As long as i and my budies have our dexs and our armies i can deal with whatever happens.

>>50890583
The Praetorian Guards for maximum comedy

>>50890774
Or the Tallarn Raiders for Rambo MCMXXVII

>>50890714

So in Catachan lore a regiment of them took down an entire tyranid infestation by covering themselves in tyranid guts and killing the hive tyrant.

The surviving Catachans had to spend 3 years on a decontamination ship our commissar already received his Catachan name and took part in some minor battles this tyranid thing gets him noticed big time. Here comes some head of a scholoa progenium and asks the Catachan if would come with him to a schola and become a commissar. Catachan at first laughs and turns down the deal but here comes some old ass Terran law of "All regiments of the Imperial Guard are requeired to have one being from their home planet be put into a schola and turned into a commissar" they just never tried since alot of the kids on Catachan tend to die.

>>50890714

Well as far as i understand the Fluff Commissars are trained in the Schola and then shipped off to join a regiment. So some kid from Catachan was selected for his great faith and ability to go train to be more than just a guardsmen and was chosen to become a Commissar. Then he gets assigned to someone (we still need to iron that out) and he goes around doing his thing with a big honking plasma pistol and a power fist i guess (i still feel like he needs some Catachan esque weapons.)

>>50890791
>Goes into battle with a power fist.
>"looses" it every battle and is forced to use his catachan knife.

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>>50890725

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>>50888992
40k has technically been in the End Times since at least 5th edition.

On a serious note though, GW's facebook page has confirmed that they aren't doing any kind of Warhammer-Fantasy-esque-End-Times-scenario with 40k.

>>50890629

GW has always seemingly handled the existence of stuff outside of the Milky Way Galaxy poorly.

The Emperor is likely so important because he both directs the Astronomican, which allows the Imperium to function, and the possibility that he somehow protects human psykers from the full onslaught of Chaos. If the Astronomican goes then you basically have an even worse Age of Strife as all cohesion breaks down and you start having daemons using psykers all across the galaxy as portals. He is also the only thing keeping the Webway portal on Terra closed, if that opens then you'll have daemons pouring out.

I know the Horus Heresy has dabbled with the idea of a second Astronomican of sorts in the eastern part of the galaxy, but I imagine it either was as strong or went to shit for some reason.

I'm also guessing that there is some unique about the Emperor which allows him to direct the Astronomican which other similarly powerful psykers can't duplicate either because it's out of their range of powers or the only one who could teach the mechanics of it is the Emperor himself.

>>50890791

There is that Catachan sword with mercury in it

>>50890833

wut?

>>50890790

Now im imagining some super buff teenager in the schola surrounded by kids.

>>50890629
>Alpha plus psykers have already performed feats of psychic power far beyond anything the emperor ever did. The Emperor's best stuff was all science and genetics and whatnot. If he was on par with an alpha-plus psyker, he wouldn't have NEEDED the Thunder Warriors or the space marines, he could have taken over planets singlehandedly with his mind.
>He didn't, because he COULDN'T. That means there are a handful of psykers alive right now in 40k who are more powerful than the Emperor ever was.
See, this is the shit that drives the fans nuts. Geedubs goes out of its way to make the emprah the most uber tuffest eva! But.....then writes shit that COMPLETELY invalidates what they've previously established.

>>50890505

Don't worry anon, I agree with you. If anything, it's the universe itself keeping things "on track"

>>50890839

>The Devil's Claw, named after the great predator on Catachan, is the longest weapon, up to four feet long. It is closer to a sword than a knife and has achieved status among the Orks who call it 'Da Cutta'. The blade is hollow and half filled with mercury in order to improve swing strength and control, and the design of this weapon has been copied by Catachan regimental officers for use as a power weapon

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Catachan_Jungle_Fighters

>>50890839
So the catachan sabre is a hollow sword filled with mercury.
The idea is that this mercury is forced to the end of the blade when swung allowing the wielder to put some major force behind the swing even in the tight confines of the jungle.

Maybe he get's posted on an arctic world and is forced to use his sword in a new exciting way as the mercury freezes solid within it.

(god damn i miss my awful catachan all infantry army.)

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>>50890867

>Not having a fully fluffed Catachan army with 8 sentinels and no tanks

By god I love this regiment

>>50890863
>>50890867

Okay, dude's got a plasma pistol and a Claw. Now lets decide on a regiment once and for all. So far we have as options

>Necromunda Spiders
>Praetorian Guard
>Tallarn
>Krieg or Armagedon

Unless i missed something.

>>50890867
erm, mercury freezes at -38 degrees - muscle man gonna be cold already!

>>50890843

>Excuse me are you a storm trooper?
>nah im your fellow student
>By the emperor?! How is that even possible
>Well I dont know either
>I thought this place killed the rejects if they didnt pass
>Rejects? Listen here you little shit when I was your age I was fighting 10 foot tall scorpions
>AND THOSE WERENT EVEN THE REAL THREATS
>IT WAS THE TOADS YOU GOTTA LOOK FOR

>>50890903
did you not see ALL INFANTRY?
I remember my first game of apocalypse. I set out my army, lined them up in full regimental formation, and was immediately wiped off the board by turn two.

>>50890847
The greatest thing that could help WH40k right now is an integrated and consistent lore, and balanced game mechanics. Instead of mindless expansion (although the Horus Heresy was, in its intent, a good move) GW should just take a step back, take a deep breath and see what needs to be done with the franchise.

>>50890916

Armageddon they use tanks a fuckton its something the commissar is not used to

>>50890969
*balanced armies
That's closer to what I intended.

>>50890973

>MFW the Catachan commisar is he who commands the men to drive the tank closer so he can hit them with his sword, because he has no idea what the fuck to do with tanks and just knows how to kill shit in melee with his overgrown death world muscles.

>>50890847

I can't really recall off the top of my head any psykers near the Emperor in power level who were supposedly jacks of all trades besides Magnus and maybe Malcador. 40k is moving more and more towards psyker sort of being really good at one thing in specific and that is it.

>>50890973

and then the story of them the Steel legion gets sent to a jungle world the Catachan gets all giddy. In between the fighting his men complain about the conditions and the commissar can only be seen with a large ass smile on his face.

>>50890829
>but I imagine it either was as strong or went to shit for some reason.

*SPOILERS*

It's a Necron artifact. It doesn't quite BAD END+++, but it DOES get ruined like everything else that could potentially diverge from core canon.

>>50891026

Magnus and Malcador were the only two people overtly listed as running the Astronomican -- that was Magnus' original purpose, and Malcador takes over while Emps is on the Vengeful Spirit. He also promptly dies from the effort, and he might be the strongest vanilla psyker to have ever lived.

>>50890988
>>50890969
AMEN MY BATTLEBROTHER!
Never happen, tho.

>>50890629
Underrated post

>>50889757
third post best post

>>50890152
>thinking you have any ground to judge from when you read 40k fiction

>>50888992
Yeah, that's just stupid. Current gw leadership seems to have taken the line: "...the laughter of thirsting gods," to mean the chaos gods, and that's a wrong interpretation. The 'gods' in that case do not refer to chaos: it refers to us, the players, the 'gods' of our chosen faction of little plastic men. WE are the laughing, thirsting gods for whom war is just a game.....
Chaos didn't win: WE won, the players of the game. EVERY faction in 40k loses, and WE win...

>>50888992
End times came about because WHFB wasn't selling well so they replaced it with Age of Sigmar. Like it or hate it that's the reason. 40k sells hella more than FB did so there's no reason for it to get End Time'd.

>>50888992
True Eldar victory when?

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>>50889844
>How do you actually prevail against something not constrained by time?
By making time itself your bitch.

>>50893888
Go home Gav, you're drunk

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>>50894080
Scatter lasers! Scatter lasers for everyone!

If all Chaos materiel is supposedly from the Horus Heresy, then doesn't it follow that they'll slowly lose on attrition?

>>50888992
>but before wasn't GW keeping an open end "yeah its all grimdark and stuff but your faction has a chance at winning and we will keep it on that threshold"

No. Literally nothing has changed. 40k has always been a losing battle. It's the fucking premise of the setting. That some people cannot read the god damn foreword to the rulebook is baffling.

>>50894080

>Gav
>Writing competent Eldar

Lol.

>>50894137
They have Hellforges that run on infinite power, infinite materials and infinite manpower because on daemonworld the world's patron Deamonic Dark Archmagos can change reality on his whim.

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you cant stay hid
from the 'nid....

in the end all battles are numbers game, so far the tyrannid hive fleet incursions have been only smaller swarms of a much larger cohorts

the map depicts the tyrannid fleets as truly vast and gargantuan in scope, no other lifeform bar perhaps necrons will remain, chaos simply disappears as non nid life is extinguished

nom nom nom nom nom.....

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>>50894254
Heh, good luck finding us kid. You're gonna need it

>>50894263
Godd luck surviving the Thirst when Nids eat everyone you pray upon

>>50894263
err...
a highly embarrassing spelling error !
tyranids, has only one n
anyway....

you could be on to something there anon
in WD nov 16
they describe commorragh as having..
"the dark city may shape and rebuild..at whim"
and
"labyrinths of crystal mirrors...spiral walkways of blades"
the dark city can reach any point of the galaxy
perhaps the deldar could dodge the nids
but for how long ?

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>>50894308
>we couldn't just create a new race, bred solely to satiate our lust

We have such sights to show you

>>50894409
>>50894308
On a serious note, how easy would it be for the nids to actually find an entrance to the webway? Let alone fine Commorragh in the labyrinth which is surrounded by daemon infestations and mazes

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>>50894546
come to think of it anon
i dont think they could...
their means of star travel excludes it ?

>>50894601
I did see another anon post about how a lictor followed some Deldar into the webway once, but what became of it is anybodies guess. This is GeeDub we talkin bout here though, anything is possible in 40k cannon

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>>50894625
its definately a known unknown
i always thought they lacked ftl travel (thus the space hulk strategy ) but reading the fluff just now there's no mention of hive fleet capability outside of their need to consume for fuel
its shame gw seem tovhave lost interest in the nids...
when they were introduced they were a really cool and frightening addition to the 40k universe

Rule of cool and money, GW can ass pull any ending as needed.

But in actuality, the endgame "lore" of 40k is a race against time. For some races its about just keeping pace while for others is hoping for a miracle.

Nids, Chaos, Necrons are all about waiting until they wear their enemy down or obtain their full strength.

The Imperium cannot conventionally defeat all its enemies at this point in time. Its hoping either for a fully intact uncorrupted STC / Human Psyker evolution that somehow doesnt fuck everything up and the Emperor returning. This makes it even bleaker if you play IG or Space Marines since all they can do is put out fires and stop the spread, while praying for a miracle. They're trying to buy time but theres nothing concrete to buy time for.

The Elder just shot their one shot miracle load for nothing, the DE are just about to have something explode in Cammoragh and the Tau are constrained by their lack of warp travel.

The Orkz ironically have been winning this entire time. An entire galaxy at war is their endgame and they are loving it.

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>>50890120
>MFW that's me

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>>50895016
ORKZ ROOL !!!

>>50890120
Curze is coming back as a loyalist.

>>50889924
If you didn't like getting pissed off at people who are minutely different to yourself you wouldn't be on 4chan.

>>50894601
I miss art like this.

>>50889924
>I lack control to ignore the opinions of man-children

I appreciate your financial investment, but if people badmouthing your plastic soldiers and tanks means you can't function on the internet you may want to explore something else. Perhaps something like team sports where you have to learn to control yourself and have a degree of cool to handle all the goading you get.

I know thatvsounds insulting but really I'm just trying to be open and honest with you.

>>50895568

>Curze is coming back

How is a guy with no head coming back?

>>50889840
Nah mate, one word, Carnac.

>>50896076
There's still art like this being produced, I saw the deviantart of one of wh40k's artists.

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>>50889924
>'I take plastic soldiers seriously' the post.

Yeah I had my moments of REEEEEEEEE HERETICS GET OFF OF MY FUCKING PLANET when Fall of Cadia was leaked, but its just a game and its all for the fucking lols.

>>50889629
sounds to me like the mistake was to NOT let chaos win despite hyping it up every five years

>>50890629
>Chaos destroying the Imperium is a valid outcome. The Emperor dying - the entire universe EXPLODES because reasons is just lazy, stupid as fuck writing.

Thank fuck someone else thinks the same as that. For example - GW sources regarding the War in Heaven infer that the universe was ticking over alive and well before the Emperor; and the extension of that is that something was in place and working fine before the Old Ones became 'Old'.

What I'm hoping for is a palpable 'soft reset' scenario which sees something like the Astronomicon turned into some kind of psy bomb that pushes back all the threats like nids and chaos in the Milkyway Galaxy - For example shrinking the eye of terror and creating a purge area to cut back the hive fleets. The Eldar can take shelter from it in the Webway and it sets up the return of the Magnificent 7 (Emps + all the missing / surviving Primarchs) without compromising entire factions like AOS did (eg. Necrons wouldn't care).

This kind of soft 40Kexit would then allow the story arcs to move forward - The Mag 7 would be dealing with the fallout of no Astronomicon - the Emperor preoccupied with dealing with that issue first whilst the Primarchs go about trying to rebuild the clusterfuck the Imperium has and dealing with all the fallout.

Main Chaos factions will be licking their wounds whilst Renegades will be confined to raiding and surgical strikes as they setup to rebuild and find a new way back for their main allies / demons / legions into the Milkway - meaning that you have the basis of things like Chaos invasions of places other than Cadia.

The eldar finally get some peace and quiet and with the threat of losing your soul no longer an issue actually start settling down and pumping out the little ones - leading to a new generation of hipster eldar kids who don't really know how well they have it and insist on fighting / going against the status quo of the old lot.

Everyone else just keeps on with the day to day

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>>50896572
Doesn't sound too shabby. Imperium could still be on the decline, even with Big E and the Primarchs back, with even more civil wars and schisms between church and state going on. Chaos Marines would be back to the underdog threat that could quickly overwhelm the Imperium if left unchecked. Eldar can settle down a bit, but the threat of Slaanesh still hangs around, as She-who-thirsts was only pushed back, and not defeated. Necrons don't care. Orks are still orks and do what they always did. Tyranid invasion becomes a bit slowed down, without the Astronomicon to lure them in (But they've already found tasty biomass, so they will still come)
But I bet some chaosfag would come in and get massively assblasted because his superspeshul infintelyimmortalsuperwinbutton faction didn't just take over everything and shit over all other factions. You know it would happen.

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>>50896116
Through his sheer sense of self-satisfaction at how vindicated he was.

>>50896178
I honestly wonder how much of the complaining about "Chaosfags" nowadays is really just unwitting backlash against him from people who don't know who he is and/or can't tell that he's a single person.

Some of you need to learn more about the back story of Warhammer 40k......Seriously.

>>50888992
As far back as I can remember, 40k was in full "THIS IS THE END!" (Since 3rd -4th for me) Every faction was on the brink of collapsing or making that final breakthrough to end the galaxy-wide stalemate that propped up all these great powers. It gave the setting a breathless quality that made it seem like every battle mattered on some level and every one of them more desperate than the last.

GWs biggest mistake was allowing their writers to define too much of their setting. No matter what you did as a player, there was always a bigger battle happening elsewhere, there was always some planet where X insane thing happened to create Y named hero. It makes the galaxy seem smaller because their are vast swaths that are predefined or claimed by named things in a codex.

The best thing GW could do is have the "End Times" be Chaos taking the Cadian gate so that Chaos is free to attack everythingb everywhere and rendering most of the bullshit from the last 2,000 years mostly meaningless. It's a whole new galaxy out there with new battles on new fronts etc.

>>50894163

>infinite

I don't think you understand what you're saying. If they had such "infinite" resources to draw on, why do they lose anything ever?
They've never shown the ability to throw infinite soldiers or whatever at anything.

>>50898328
Chaos can't maths.

>>50898412

Sounds more likely that chaosfogs make up bullshit sometimes that's totallly unsubstantiated by the lore. Which would be less of a problem if they didn't do it while working at GW.

>>50890692
>Because Chaos doesnt care enough to DO that.
FTFY

Cant and wont arent the same.

>>50889889
Because of stuff like Tzeench sending his demons all through out time to look for spells for him.

>>50899510

I thought Tzeentch just KNEW all magic and secrets and everything throughout all time. The fact that he has to send actual demons out to find it for him seems like a massive downgrade in his self-proclaimed power.

>>50889924
>how the imperium is a dying shit hole, and i'll be irritated
Then why do you play an Imperial army? That is THE POINT of the Imperium.

>>50899491
>the Chaos Marines are about bringing down the Imperium and helping to spill haos into realspace
>get their shit kicked in like sunday morning cartoon villains
>t-this was just to a-accomplish goal x! We totally didn't waste thousands of marines and millions of cultists to achieve nothing
>the chaosgods could win anytime, but don't do because reasons!

>>50900791

Hey, the sun was in their eyes, and the other guys didn't play fair, and it's a stupid war anyway!

>>50890629

The Imperium would be a lot more fresh if it became a shattered guerilla faction trying to reconnect compared to the current stale fluff of vast empire that's slowly being eroded.

Even the Tau suffer from Imperium syndrome. They used to be a young race threatened by all the other races and there were stories of Fire Warrior teams being stranded for 6 years and ending up casting the bonding knife ritual with each other in order to survive until they were eventually rescued. Now the Tau is just never-lose-a-fight and constantly expanding.

>>50889629
>marketing to metal heads
>mistake

this is what 40k was founded on

>>50901002

The problem came when the metalheads were displaced by humorless edgelords who wanted GW to get rid of the glam metal hair and jetbikes and everything else "silly" to make it all serious business all the time.

>>50901039
>he thinks 80's aesthetics would have been marketable in 2000-2016

>>50901052

80s aesthetics may not have been marketable, but that's no excuse for losing all the fun elements and flanderising the whole thing until "grimdark" became the 100% serious unifying theme of 40k.

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>>50901052

>>50901002

Yeah, and look where it got us. Shitty game with bad rules and bad fluff.

>>50901106

I'd buy that shit. And i would play the hell out of noise marines with guitars.

>>50901101

What you're describing is simply them selling out to shareholders/mass appeal. It's completely understandable why they did it, because it was far more profitable and almost every major gaming company has done it.

>>50901157

Clearly not enough people would buy it. It doesn't matter if it's just you and two other fags who would. If Doomrider's model was a hot seller, they wouldn't have COMPLETELY REMOVED IT from the sales catalog. Even Kharn got a plastic update.

You're like that moron who thinks ork bike racing video game would sell more than Space Hulk despite the fact that marines print enough money they transformed FW into boutique to mass production and sustain their own separate fucking wargame.

>>50901129
>>50901181
>>50901206

"Following a management buyout by Bryan Ansell in December 1991, Games Workshop refocused on their miniature wargames Warhammer Fantasy Battle (WFB) and Warhammer 40,000 (WH40k), their most lucrative lines. The retail chain refocused on a younger, more family-oriented market. The change of direction was a great success and the company enjoyed growing profits, but the more commercial direction of the company made it lose some of its old fan base. A breakaway group of two company employees published Fantasy Warlord in competition with Games Workshop, but the new company met with little success and closed in 1993. Games Workshop expanded in Europe, the U.S.A., Canada, and Australia, opening new branches and organizing events in each new commercial territory. The company was floated on the London Stock Exchange in October 1994. In October 1997 all U.K.-based operations were relocated to the current headquarters in Lenton, Nottingham. This site now houses the corporate headquarters (HQ), the White Dwarf offices, mail order operations, production and distribution facilities for Europe, and the creative teams behind the miniatures and games' designs.[citation needed]

By the end of the decade the company was having problems with falling profits, and blame was placed on the growth in popularity of collectible card games such as Magic: The Gathering and Pokémon T.C.G.."

Buyout in 1991 killed it

>>50888992
>but before wasn't GW keeping an open end "yeah its all grimdark and stuff but your faction has a chance at winning and we will keep it on that threshold" state to the setting, whereas now its shaping up to be The End Times IN SPAAAAAAACE
Yeah, but then BL and GW's writing corps got overrun with ascended chaos fanboys like Goulding and ADB, who have been changing the setting in their image

>>50901206

I'm not deluded enough to think it would appeal to everyone, i know that, i'm just saying i think that looks fun.

Also, i hate racing games, and they are inevitably shit.

ITT: people have no concept that the Imperium is entirely based of the Holy Roman Empire trying to bring order to the world, Space Marines are Benedictine Monks, Sisters Sororitas are Nuns and Chaos inevitably 'wins' because Rome fell + History Repeats Itself: The Setting.

There's an Ork Faction called the Goffs that wear all black for Christs sake. As in the "Goths that sacked Rome"

>>50901231

This is the curse of having patrician tastes; companies cater to the pleb masses.

I'm really hoping that they bring the Sensei back as a kind of pseudo-Primarch for the IG. Some kinda regiment of the Emperor's distant descendants or something could be neat. I think the fluff needs some loving, though. It'd be nice if they could go in and sort it all out so they can all be on the same page going forward.

>>50890187
See >>50890175 and apologize.

>>50901498
>hey gaiz let me get in on dis primarch action too

Wow what a fucking faggot. I bet you bitch about too much marine shit too you fucking hypocrite. IGfags are scum.

>>50895016
>They're trying to buy time but theres nothing concrete to buy time for.
Not quite. The ad mech codex states that the planet hell's teeth holds the Omnicopaeia, a device which has every single psykic STC, and if found will provide "a way to control, precipitate and even weaponise Humanity’s psychic dawn.”.
So mankind definitely has a way to win, it's just on a daemon world.
I wouldn't be surprised if the FoC supplement has the big ad mech guy going after it, since ot says he's been working on something for 10,000 years, and the only things that would warrant that much time and GW me tioning it would be:
The Omnicopaeia
A fully functioning STC
Bringing emps back to life
Closing the eye of terror using the pylons.

>>50902533

As an admech player from the moment i read that in my Skittarii codex i've been waiting and praying for an event for it. I WANT PSYCHERS DAMN IT.

>>50888992

40k as a setting doesn't need to expand vertically. The story doesn't need to move forward.

What it can and should do is expand horizontally. Tell the stories that happen upon one of the billion worlds.

>>50900453
The Imperium is like a kid on a farm, dreaming that one day he will be an astronaut.

He's never going to become that astronaut but saying it outright it just cruel.

>>50900453

For me the point is the struggle to survive and humanity defying the odds against aliens and deamons. Fuck off with your interpretation i like mine better.

>>50903382
But the Imperium isn't humanity, so many sources and stories throughout 40K history hint at how much nicer the past wsa and what a shitty situation the Imperium is perpetuating. For humanity to survive the Imperium must fall.

Now don't get me wrong, I think humanity in 40K has earned a win. I'm the fag int he other thread that wanted the Grey Knights to go grab Magnus in a butterfly net, shove him on the throne and have the Emperor actually win because after 25 years of grind you know what? They earned that ending. But it'll never happen and you need to acknowledge that. I play Dark Eldar and I'm under no illusion they'll win, the fun is in the journey.

>>50903496
>play Dark Eldar and I'm under no illusion they'll win, the fun is in the journey.
Do they even have any kind of endgoal, aside from murderraping anyone so they don't get murderraped by Slaanesh? Well, and finding out whoever may be the biggest dick to ever grace the galaxy.

>>50889827
Tzeentch is too smart for that though. He continually resets the balance and keeps both sides in a state of not gaining ground or gaining enough to offset losses. Without mortals the gods cannot exist.

>>50894137

Dark Mechanicum is the more technologically inclined CSM are making things, there is also nothing stopping CSM from taking from any regular SM they kill. The amount of Chapters going renegade doesn't seem to be on decline either.

>>50897106

>there was always some planet where X insane thing happened to create Y named hero. It makes the galaxy seem smaller because their are vast swaths that are predefined or claimed by named things in a codex.

You have no idea how big the galaxy is. It's so big that GW can easily get away with creating entirely new planets, systems, and sectors out of thin air and have them work as long the combatants are constrained by supposedly being somewhere else at the same time.

>>50900371

Tzeentch knows a lot of shit, but he isn't omnipresent, omnipotent, or omniscient.

>>50900791

Eh, even if the CSM lose they do arguably cause damage that is either irreparable or which will take years to repair, which leaves the Imperium all the weaker and gives other races a possible opening.

>>50902740
/thread

>>50905939
> Tzeentch knows a lot of shit, but he isn't omnipresent, omnipotent, or omniscient.


Tell that to chaosfags

>>50889629
could they have chaos win and then go "nah you can have it back" precisely because it makes no sense and is therefore chaotic?

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>>50901039
>The problem came when the metalheads were displaced by humorless edgelords
Like Rick Priestley? Considering his part in the Squat thing.

>>50901225
>but then BL and GW's writing corps got overrun with ascended chaos fanboys like Goulding and ADB
Don't forget Mat Ward.

>>50889629
>new hires as Chaosfags

They had great suit with RoC/StD, and CSM 3.5 was incredible. Every other Chaos release has been shit to mediocre, with the mode being utter shit.

Eldarfags and Loyalfags have a much more obvious history of favor. Get the fuck over yourself.

>>50894163
Said hellforges are being attacked by admech forces from Agripinaa. They could be taken out at anytime now and leave Old Armless without any manufacturing to supply his 13th failure. Scorce is page 15 of the admech codex, not the Skitarii one.

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>>50888992
We all know there will be only one race that shall stand triumphant atop the corpses of the galaxy's offal...

>>50889629
Dude have you SEEN the Imperium wanking GW has been doing for literal decades? GW are only Chaosfags when it comes to fantasy but the minute it comes to 40k their shitting out 14 marine codexes in a row while letting everyone else (including Chaos) languish in obscurity for literal years.