/btg/ - BattleTech General

PART TWO!: -

Field Manual Comstar.PDF
http://www.mediafire.com/file/ja3z2n1goe12623/Field_Manual_Comstar.PDF
8604 - The Spider and the Wolf
https://www.mediafire.com/?3d9brfrkj9vnhka
Aerotech 2 - Revised
http://www.mediafire.com/file/ivqhzog2wyoegxo/Battletech_35011_-_Aerotech_2_Revised.pdf
hexpacks 2&3:

Battletech Hexpacks
http://www.mediafire.com/file/3o59kirzzz6znac/BattleTech_Hexpacks.7z
also introbox stuff:
http://www.mediafire.com/file/l22yrlkk9buzuzl/BattleTech_Intro_Box_Set.7z

Historical War of 3039
https://www.scribd.com/doc/23569748/35014-Historical-War-of-3039

Mechwarrior 5: Mercenaries is coming, set during the Third Succession War.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gz8Y1V8gy1A&feature=youtu.be

Heavy Metal Archive (OLD)
http://www.mediafire.com/file/8so68gbw3yga4cb/2016-12-11_HeavyMetal-Archive-OLD.rar

Fan made TRO 3063:
battletechreader.blogspot.com/2012/09/the-fan-made-technical-readout-3063.html
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/8o30486fony5f/Fan_TRO_3063

... also Butte Hold

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>>50884693
>>50884697
You got the jump on me today, anon. Accept my DFA back in return!

>>50884639
Anon, do you think you'd be sufficient for a clan tigress to take as bondsman?

Silliness aside, it'd be kind of neat to have material documenting clan life outside of warfare.

>>50884763
Hmm, looking at that you can see tread on the mech foot. I'm curious if mech feet are textured for grip or are just big metal pieces.

>>50884819
They are textured. It's stated multiple times in various novels. It's part of the reason why they even tear up ferrocrete roads that aren't designed to handle their weight or built specifically for 'mechs.

>>50884819
They have textures for grip (wasn't long when I read a BT novel that mentioned how the texturing wasn't enough to stop someone from failing a PSR and going for a ride) along with sensors for testing the ground firmness and other MLC type things.

>>50884522
I know I'm in the minority here, but I probably wouldn't a clanner, and certainly not a trueborn. (Though the latter is mostly for reasons unrelated to their being clanners)

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favorite drac attack?

>>50884281
Sounds like my gf

>>50885657
Looks like a Klingon

>>50886170
And bitches about honor just the same amount.

How close are the militaries of the Houses tied to the mercenaries they employ?

Would a mercenary company employed by the FedSuns receive their orders from a Davion commander directly, or through intermediaries?

>>50886545
Usually through a liaison who may be attached (by being part of them) to the standing military, or a regional militia, or even planetary militia. That liaison may even not report to the standing military and may instead report directly to a noble. The liaison may choose to defer to any commander for orders or requirements, handling contract fulfillment and arbitration instead, or they may take full control. It all really depends upon the region and how much of a lackey or power player the liaison and local authoritative powers are.

>>50886291
[about the Katana] Do not think of it as a weapon. Make it part of your hand - part of your arm. Make it part of you.

>>50886545
Depends on the merc unit and its ties.
Also depends on the military. Almost all have their own liaison offices, and will use liaisons to issue orders and whatnot.
Some are more lax, letting the mercs do their own thing to accomplish orders (Davion) while others are more micromanaging (Kurita and maybe Liao).

>>50886763
>>50886666
Well, say you have a small mercenary company who're on a FedSun world that's currently being invaded. It seems like it'd be a bit of a nightmare having all of their orders relayed through different people when time is probably of the essence.

>>50887001
Then the onplanet AFFS commander would probably assume control.

So I recall hearing on /btg/ that a load of Kurita regiments basically disappeared during/after the Clan Invasion.

Like 10-15 or more that were unaccounted for.

So if they had been accounted for, and pulled in for the defense of Luthien in 3052 (and so Hanse not sent the Kell Hounds and Wolf's Dragoons), would they have been able to hold the Drac capital?

Also, say with those seven elite merc regiments not going to Luthien the AFFC instead uses them to strike along the Jade Falcon axis of advance.
How might that influence the Falcon invasion corridor?

I'm curious about these two alternate scenarios.

What do you BT military historians suppose the outcomes would be?

>>50887001
Orders probably wouldn't be relayed through different people - just down the normal chain of command. The local AFFS commander issues his orders, these go down to regiment/battalion level, and depending on where you are in the chain, the orders eventually come to your liaison officer (who will probably be billeted with you, since it's only one more mouth to feed in your assigned base), who relays the orders to you.

Note that this would only apply if you're under an AFFS contract. If you were contracted as, say, security to Baron X of the planet, Johnny Foreigner could invade that planet and the AFFS wouldn't have a say in the matter unless there is a clause in the contract that allows the AFFS to "nationalise" you for the duration of the conflict. Otherwise, you'd be providing security for the Baron's mountain retreat as usual.

>>50887182

The Dracs had enough with what was listed in the 20-Year Update to plop down like 30 Regiments on Luthien without weakening their Clan border or FedCom borders.

I'm not sure where those units go missing but my suspicion is that the wonderfully fact-checked and extremely accurate Objective Raids omitted them and then OR was used as the source for FM: DC.

The Dracs weren't allowed to defend Luthien or rescue Hohiro on their own because of OOC reasons. They had to be inferior to the AFFC, they had to rely on the AFFC for help, and the AFFC helping the Dracs was the only way to grow rapport because that's what the writers wanted at the time.

As for the Falcon front, hard to see it making a difference even with the Dragoons there. It's not like they did a fantastically great job outside of Luthien against the Clans and the Falcons were considerably more beloved by the writers than the Jags or Cats.

>>50887435
Poor nova cats

>>50887781
Cats had it coming, but I still miss when they were a power. At least we still have the Spirit Cats.

>>50886053
Stop lying anon

>>50888200
>Cats had it coming

They really never got anything other than thrown under the bus

>>50884693
So, I keep wanting to look into this game, and bouncing off the fairly large rule set.

So, some questions before I look deeper:
Are tanks actually well implemented in this system?
Are they worth using?

>>50888230
What does he gain from doing so anonymously?

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>>50888230
Improbable, yes, impossible no.

Besides, doesn't Battletech give you all the warmth and love you crave?

>>50888338
>well-implemented
Hard to say, because it depends on what you want out of them

>worth using
If you use vee effectiveness alternate rules, then yes.

>>50888283
I suppose. In truth my dislike of them stems from that awful Northwind Highlander book/plotline with Loren Sueman, so really I suppose I should just hate the Northwinders.

>>50888338
>Are tanks actually well implemented in this system?
They work? They're pretty fragile compared to mechs due to the vehicle crit system but they have functional rules that aren't complicated once you learn their few special things (they handle elevation worse than mechs, they have vehicle crits, they have different arcs than mechs, that's about it).

>Are they worth using?
This is really variable. It's like asking "are mechs good?" Well, some of them are? There are tank equivalents of the Clint and of the Awesome, so YMMV. Super generally, they're worse than an equal tonnage of mechs would be. That being said, some tanks are more than capable of holding their own against mechs and vehicles have a few advantages (only one level high means they're easy to hide, they can carry infantry/BA, cheaper in cbills and BV).

>>50888338
>Are tanks actually well implemented in this system?

They are, in that there's a wide variety of them and they can usually hold their own on the battlefield.

>Are they worth using?

Absolutely. Tanks are strictly weaker than Mechs on equivalent tonnages (ie, a 35 ton tank will almost always die to a 35 ton Mech), but that's a deliberate choice made by the game designers. Tanks, therefore, receive a Battle Value discount - a 35 ton Striker tank only costs 564 BV, while a 35 ton Wolfhound Mech costs 1,061 - so in the long run, they're balanced with each other.

There are several optional rules which make tanks much more durable and remove tank-specific critical hits...but if you use those you will make tanks strictly better than Mechs. Tanks can mount MUCH more armor and weapons than a Mech, in exchange for not being able to go across less terrain types and being vulnerable to critical hits, so if you take away those critical hits the vees will often be better that the Mechs. If you make tanks outright better than Mechs, why bother with a game about giant robots in the first place?

>>50888748
>If you make tanks outright better than Mechs, why bother with a game about giant robots in the first place?

The worst thing about Battletech are the Mechs anyway, so I fail to see the problem with obsoleting Mechs off of the battlefield. They're completely unrealistic and they should be more vulnerable than tanks to incoming fire, not less. CGL completely fucked up in the way vehicles were handled.

>>50888515
>>50888604
I was mostly wondering if tanks were still in the game as a flavor thing, or if they were actually viable. The fluff seemed to be built around masturbating how great mechs are, so I was wondering if tanks existed just to show how great mechs are.

though, this leads to another question. Is there any way in which infantry help? Are they worth using on any level?

>>50888800
Tanks are definitely viable. Though, they are generally worse than mechs, so keep that in mind. It *is* a wargame about giant stompy robots.

Infantry are a highly contentious and divisive topic around here recently. The short answer is: they can be relevant, yes. The long answer requires more whiskey than I have to explain.

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>>50888800

Infantry can be okay.

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>>50888776
>unrealistic

>>50888800
Infantry vary from "basically mobile minefields" to "comparable in firepower and range to an Awesome"

>>50888800

Most of the time vehicles work better as carriers for one or two big guns or as cheap canon fodder, compared to mechs serving as general pupose war machines. Infantry can go all over the place depending on rules and such.

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>>50888889
>off by one
Ouch. Have pic related in response.

>>50888560
What happened there?

>>50888889

>Infantryman.
>woman soldier
>17 Mech kills

Maximum Sue/10

>>50889472
She just used a mech-scale PPC to shoot an infantry platoon, "killing" 17 of them. That's not Sue at all.

>>50889472
Cassie Suthorn :)

Is there any way to have multiple techs work on a refit to shorten it in MekHQ?

>>50889506

...that's not a good counterargument, anon

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>>50888776
>vehicles being mishandled
>CGL's fault
You have to be 18 to post here, kid.

>>50888776
Then why are you playing BT, you autist?

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25 Jenners versus 8 Atlases, who wins?

>>50890578
Assuming 3025 variants, probably the jenners. They'd have higher to-hit numbers and VASTLY outnumber the Atlases. They just have so many rolls available compared to the Atlases, they'd probably grind them down over time.

>>50890578
Jenners, I'd say. Most many lights VS few assault fights go to the lights

>>50890578
Let me give you an idea what can happen. A similar situation was mentioned in the fluff of having a trio of Locusts surrounding a larger mech giving you problem, but I had a team of three Stingers that would hunt medium mechs and consistently bring them down. The most notable was a Centurion that was just savaged by the little runts.
Swarm tactics in some ways can be really unpleasant.

>>50888776
>Specifically a mech game
>Complains that mechs are viable in a mech game
>Stop liking what I don't like

So I'm getting a bunch of BA to use as boarders for anti-DropShip activity. What primary weapon should I give them? Considering either a small laser (for ammo management and general effectiveness) or a flamer (for the terror aspect). Going to be using IS Standard for the main troops.

>>50890974
>>50890556
Stop biting the bait, you Mormons.

>>50890578
Jenners, definitely. Awesomes or Marauder-IIs would stand a decent chance of winning, but anything with detonatable ammo nearly always looses to swarms

>>50890556

>implying anyone here actually plays
>any pics "proving" otherwise are just ripped from GIS or the OF

>>50891230
>playing Battletech
Good Lord no, can you imagine what a pain that would be?

No, anon, all the fun is in the theorycrafting. Battletech is far too much of a hassle to actually play. If I wanted to gaff about for eight hours I'd play cricket.

Speaking of the atlas, anyone have any good variants? None of the canon 3025 or 3050s models really do it for me

>>50891483

Not even the AS8-D? Damn, son, you have problems.

What do you WANT out of the Atlas, then?

>>50891307
>Battletech is far too much of a hassle to actually play.

This. Alpha strike is a godsend, and it's a far superior game. The sooner CGL makes the switch over from BT to AS and retires BT completely, the better off everyone will be.

>>50891518
>What do you WANT out of the Atlas, then?
To defeat 25 Jenners.

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>>50891551

>>50891518
>Not even the AS8-D?
Jihad era. I was only talking about 3025&50s models

>>50891628
You can't handle the challenge? Fine, I'll ask the thread.

New Mech Challenge: Design an Atlas, any tech level, has to defeat 25 3025 Jenners in a fight (Jenners attack in waves of 4, every two turns).

>>50891826
4/25=6 waves + a singlet?

>>50891826
You'd get swarmed in the first two turns. By the time you manage to kill one Jenner, the others will be fucking your ass raw.

>>50891856
Yes.

>>50891867
Coward. Something's gotta be able to do it.

>>50891826
I have one that could do it in pairs, but alone ain't happening

>>50891927
Fuck it, why not. Let's see this monstrosity.

>>50891894
>Coward. Something's gotta be able to do it.

No, there isn't. The game doesn't work that way, unless you're going to set up hilariously artificial terrain or gravitic conditions that gut the Jenner movement pattern.

In no conditions that aren't ludicrously weighted in favor of the Atlas can the Atlas prevail. ESPECIALLY not a 3025-era Atlas.

>>50891826
>>50891972
which era are we talking about for the atlas, and which for the jenners?

>>50891989
THE Jenner. JR7-D. The little ass-exploding faggot that appears behind you and says "Psh, nothing personnel, kid."

>>50891826
I've got a 3025 atlas that could probably win the original 8-25 challenge easy, but what you're describing ain't happening

>>50892009
I mean, a pair of slightly overweight hellstars that were based on Atlas chassies could probably do it

>>50891989
Era for the Atlas: anything, any tech is allowed.

>>50891983
No, I'm pretty sure that if a Schiltron can delete an ENTIRE BINARY of Turkina-Z's (and one Orca), basically anything is possible in Battletech.

>>50892011
Really? May as well post it, since the original anon wanted to see something like that.

>>50892055
It's basically a fat awesome, three PPCs, 4MLs, 29SHS, 19 tons armor. Eight of them standing back-to-back could probably take 25 jenners, depending on pilot quality

>>50892055
>No, I'm pretty sure that if a Schiltron can delete an ENTIRE BINARY of Turkina-Z's (and one Orca), basically anything is possible in Battletech.

False equivalency is extremely false.

>>50892055
Well shit, you could probably cram three cAIVs into a 100 ton chassis with a cXLFE, load nukes, kill them all

I wonder if someone is playing through a scenario of trying to beat back a horde of Jenners right now?

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Third Transfer now, gas the frails.

>>50888776
>The worst thing about Battletech are the Mechs anyway, so I fail to see the problem with obsoleting Mechs off of the battlefield
Why are you even playing battletech?

>>50892992

Huh?

>>50888800
Vehicles are worth while both in fluff and combat, but they are worse than 'Mechs in most areas. Infantry are specialized but generally fair as well as you would think 16 guys with M4-Carbines would against a giant robot; but they can be hell in an urban environment.

>>50892055
A fully kitted out customized Atlas with Clan tech might be able to take out the waves of Jenners, assuming fair terrain and decent pilots, he Just has to kill a Jenner a turn, or at least leg it and CLPLs are a hell of a drug. This is also assuming that the Jenner player isn't smart enough to hide until he has enough 'Mechs on table to effectively swarm the Atlas. It honestly comes down to player skill and terrain in my opinion. If the Jenner player is running around on multiple map-sheets and can duck and hide and wait for all his dudes to show up then he'd probably win. If there is only one map-sheets and it's flipped over so it's literally only a bunch of blank hexes then the Atlas could probably win because it could with the right payload drop a Jenner a turn. I think the combat in most cases would favor the Jenners especially if they are played smart, but the Atlas has a chance.

Or you just do what >>50892114 said and mount two Arrow IVs and nuke the Jenners with Davy Crocketts and hope you survive the secondary effects.

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Newbie here
How are the quad mechs, is there a decent one? And the Quad-vees?
I'd like to start playing around with artillery units, what's a mostly common artillery vehicle/mech? What about an artillery quad mech?

>>50894801

Quadvees are bad compared to 'Mechs but potentially good compared to vehicles. So it depends on what you're trying to do.

Quads in general are a bit harder to get the most out of than comparable bipeds. They can be a bit tougher with the extra armour and internal structure, and partial cover hides everything but the torsos and head which can be hilarious.

However, the lack of internal space can mean they're slow and often means they can't boat energy weapons as well as bipeds because they can't spare the space for XL engines and DHS. They can't torso twist either so you have to be more aware of what's in front of them and what the enemy is trying to flank with.

Finally, while I don't recall any canon quads with artillery weapons that's easy enough to fix with a custom design.

>>50894801
>Newbie
As the years progressed, more things got added, so it all depends on your tech level.

One, Artillery are outside of tourney rules and are found in Tactical Operations... they were complex enough to merit a place there, I guess. They're not too bad, as far as I'm concerned.

Quads are not too bad, but they shine the most on broken terrain where a normal ground-bound mech would have to zig and zag a lot. Being able to side-shuffle at a cost of 2 mp helps to chop the MP off of turn-move-turn that a biped might need. They're also handy for situations that call for lots of fall checks, like running on concrete or moving through rubble. It comes at the cost of not being able to torso twist, though. Bear that in mind.

As for artillery? I'm not sure about both being on there. The Goliath is one of the two first quads, and it packed two LRM10s, so you could at least use it for indirect LRM fire... but as far as quads with artillery... mechs are usually limited to the Arrow IV since most tube arty chews up crazy amounts of crit-space. Off the top of my head, I don't know any Quads with Arrow IV.

To my knowledge, it wouldn't be possible. I don't think that you can use the legs when splitting criticals, and I think that the Arrow IV uses up more crits than can can be offered on a quad... at least not without using stuff like compact engines and gyros...

Your best shot is to find Quads made with Missiles in mind. Artillery-packing quads... I don't think you can pull it off without making a Superheavy Post-Jihad era mech.

What's the percentage chance of a through armor critical? Is it about 1%?

>>50895126
>>50894801
Looking a little more into it, there's only one way I have found that you could make a Quad artillery unit.

The only two choices that could work in a quad is either using A) A clan version of the Arrow IV artillery (12 crits), or an inner sphere Thumper artillery cannon, not to be mistaken with the thumper artillery piece.

Arrow IV will act more like traditional artillery, but you could potentially use TAG to assist any Homing rounds you might equip. The Thumper Artillery Canon operates pretty differently from the usual "get out of sight and rain from miles away" method, but I don't understand them well enough to really tell you how they work. I've never seen one used in a game.

>>50895154
A little over 2%. It's a 1/36 chance.

>>50895126
>>50895170

I see, how would be a light-medium fast jumpjetting missile quadmech, basically a quadrupedal Valkyrie or Dervish?

>>50895176
I thought you had to roll on number of critical hits table to see if you actually broke something though. So it's something like 41% of that 2% or some such.

>>50895170
>The only two choices that could work in a quad is either using A) A clan version of the Arrow IV artillery (12 crits), or an inner sphere Thumper artillery cannon, not to be mistaken with the thumper artillery piece.
Compact gyros anon. Fitting IS Arrow IV or a full size Thumper is possible, as is Artillery Cannons up to the Long Tom.

>>50895170

Thumper Cannons have terrible range for their mass and size. I'd mount a RAC or BL-10X over one any day of the week. Long Tom Cannon or bust, really.

>>50895185

You can do it but you're better of trying to make something that's GOTTAGOFAST and using it in cities etc where its inherent PSR bonus gives a major boost.

Or using it as a HGR platform so you never fall over, I guess.

>>50894109
Read the lore, newfag

Given the immense weight of both launcher and ammo, why would anyone use Cruise Missiles?

>>50897792
Because of the immense range, damage and damage radius. A CM/120 still inflicts 20 damage in its outermost impact area, and at R4 and the total area is basically half a mapsheet. It's basically the biggest bang you can get without going nuclear or entering orbital bombardment territory.

The thing is, cruise missiles are the kind of thing you need big stuff to bring, like large naval vessels or a dropship. A 100,000 ton missile sub could haul a few CM/120s and fuck up a whole mapsheet.

>>50895192
That's right. So you have a 1/36 chance of getting a TAC and then a 15/36 to get at least one crit.

>>50898233
I multiplied 2.78% by 41.6% for the 15/36 and got about 1.15% chance of critting something. That sounds about right.
Someone posted a Clan update Archer (along with other unseens) with 40 Streak tubes, and another guy posted some monster vehicle with a huge number of SRM tubes a while back. That's at least 40 x 1.15+% for each shot. Frightening!

>>50898286
>and another guy posted some monster vehicle with a huge number of SRM tubes a while back

Consider the following: Tandem Charge SRMs.

>>50898323
>Tandem Charge SRMs
Why even get out of the barracks in the morning?

>>50898344
sou can let those SRMs loose?

>>50898344
Because some other fucker is loaded up with infernos.

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How's this work for a Nova Cat trinary?

Assault Star
>Supernova 3
>Nova Cat
>Nova Cat
>Supernova
>Supernova 4

Battle Star
>Stormcrow
>Huntsman
>Huntsman
>Mad Dog
>Mad Dog

Striker Star
>Conjurer
>Shadow Cat
>Shadow Cat
>Griffin IIC
>Griffin IIC

For playing during Operation Revival, what would be good options to swap out for things like the Nova Cat mech?

>>50897955
Stationary silos work too. Pretty sure the rules allow for the construction of underground buildings, then you just add the CM/120 as a weapon in the "turret" to simulate its ability to launch in any direction.

>>50899710
Objective : Destroy the 4 Silos before Turn X

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What has made Clan Ghost Bear so successful compared to other clans?

One theory I've seen on the BT forums is that the Bears adopt a "wait and see" approach to doing things, but in a culture like that of the clans such a cautious nature seems like it would be yielding the initiative and always leaving the practitioner on the defensive.

Aside from accusations of favoritism by the authors, why have the Bears been so successful?

>>50899929
Please don't bait the thread.

>>50899869
Isn't that the climax to a Clancy novel?

>>50899990
It's a good question though.

>>50900557
It might be a good question, might, maybe, but if it's just going to raise shit, and it will if it starts getting attention and discussion, then I'd rather it not be here.

Forgive me if I don't find it likely that purely civil, polite discussion is the most likely outcome.

>>50900603
You seem of a civil mindset though. Why not give me your view on the Bears and their success?

>>50901413
Mostly out of dread that once I do, someone who disagrees will not be so civil. Because that is the pattern I've noticed with bringing up topics of factions in these threads, they always end up devolving into unproductive arguing. And quite frankly I'd rather the thread have no activity going on for a few hours until something else comes up than for the thread to be active but that activity be negative.

>>50899929

>why have the Bears been so successful?

In a nutshell? All the Invaders were.

Unlike the Wolves, Falcons, Cats, and Jaguars the only Clans they had beef with were too weak to do anything about it, so once the Bears were set up in their OZ they didn't have a Refusal War or Bulldog/Serpent to wreck them either.

>>50899122
For a Revival era appropriate formation, swapping out the two Nova Cats for a Timber Wolf Prime and Gargoyle A would do the job.

>>50899929
They let the wolverines go

>>50901413
I would simply say that it's that at no writer ever came up with a storyline which needed the bears to get fucked up, either for plot and personal reasons, so they didn't.
As for why they get so many good designs and sourcebook moments , it's also down to writers. If there's writers interested in a faction, shit gets written, and it's usually good. If there isn't a writer, there's no stuff. Simple as that

>>50901918
Yeah weren't they really the good guys? Like Space Americans wanting freedom and liberty, not wanting to be part of Kerensky's Space EU/Commie multicult?
I mean it adds up with the Wolverines being the Minnesota Tribe, a Yank state.

>>50902280

The Wolverines got fucked by misinformation and Kerensky assuming that everything that went wrong was their doing.

>>50902577
>implying Nicky K was ever wrong about anything

Sure is treason up in this thread.

>>50902598
Fuck off green birb.

>>50902758

purple burd > green birb

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>>50902577
>The Wolverines got fucked by misinformation

Information is ammunition, anon.

>>50902916
Pretty sure i know why i have this boner

>>50902577
Kerensky didn't think everything wrong was their doing, he simply wanted to cut one clan out to use as an example.

>>50902946

By that I mean that one city that was destroyed (I think that was it?) that was the fault of another clan was blamed on the Wolverines.

>>50902916
You dare to spread misinformation?

>>50902916
>axman typically has a bit autocannon and lasers
>looks like it has a srm rack on it's shoulder

huh

>>50903006
It's the -2N variant.

>>50902971
It was one of the clan's (Snow Ravens I think?) genetic repository. Basically the place they keep all the shit they need to keep churning out tube babies. So yeah, it was a huge deal.

>>50903077
Does the 2n have a pair of srm 6s?

>>50903149
the N2 has 2xLRM15 instead of the AC20
don't ask me how that fits

>>50903273
The same way that the Longbow has 25 LRM tubes in each arm but in the artwork it's way, way less.

>>50902280
Yep, Wolverines were the good guys all along. I wonder how they will fit them as the ilClan


BTW, which Clan would cause the most butthurt in the fan base if announced as the ilClan?

>>50903360

Jesus, you're right about the Longbow. I never really noticed before. Between the Axman, Longbow, and innumerable others, what is it going to take to make CGL take their damn art seriously?

>>50903501
>BTW, which Clan would cause the most butthurt in the fan base if announced as the ilClan?

Clan Liao or Clan Davion. Take your pick.

>>50903531
I meant a true Clan (at least one directly related to the 20 Clans created by Nick K)

Not that I don't believe CGL could pull an entirely new Clan. In fact my guess is that they will mix Wolverines, Green Ghosts and some true Cameron descendant

>>50903609
Not sure if cool or not.

Given how the RotS started out lame but became cool, I'd give ilClan Green Wolverine a chance.

>>50903516
>FASA-era art
>blaming CGL

10/10, got me to laugh.

>>50903501
Clan Diamond Shark enters into a secret deal with the RotS, and as soon as the wall comes down pulls out the deed to Terra, which they have bought from the RotS.

Alternately, Star Adder somehow does it.

>>50903531
Clan Snord

>>50904046
Star Ader uses Hyperjump tech captured from WoB remnant forces to pop up on Terra after Wall goes down.

Cap this

>>50904046
>Everybody's face when Kisho gets past the Fortress and wins Terra in a coin toss with Stone.

>>50904050
I would forgive CGL everything if the April Fools product this year was fake ilClan, and they just made it clan snord

>>50904144
>Nova Cucks become ilCucks

Haha fund it

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>>50903006
This is the 1N which has an ac20 and no missiles at all. Still has a missile rack and no autocannon.

Who knows what the fuck FASA was thinking but it's probably one of those situations where the artists got one set of instructions and the TRO writers got another and who cares about the customers/fans.

>>50904188
>when your feet have a complete empennage ready for takeoff from the runway

>>50903273
>>50903360
>>50903516
Reminder that the AS7-D has a five tube LRM 20 that is specifically fluffed to have a rapid reloading system that allows it to spit out 20 missiles in ten seconds.

But also what >>50904188 said.

>>50904188
maybe its a 9 barreled gun

>>50904188
>team banzai actually invents the mml-9 first but everyone just pretends its an ac20 that firsts in a short burst

>>50904181
>>50904144
>he choses edge
>he wins

CAN YOU THE GLORY?

>>50904407
I can hear the coming of the glory of the Word...

>>50904050
Clan Waco

>>50904441
>I can hear the coming of the glory of the Word,
He is trampling 'cross the mechbay where the gods of steel are stored;
He hath loosed atomic lightning of His terrible swift sword:
Blake Eleison !

>>50904441
>>50904567
What is this reference?

>>50904642
"The Battle Hymn of the Republic"

>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Battle_Hymn_of_the_Republic

>>50904642
You get a pass if you're not an Amerifag, but if you are, that's one you should know.

>>50904681
that's a pretty awesome song

>>50904774
Always annoys me when people these days change "die" to "live"

>>50904801
well you're a blakist so of course you'd say that

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Minor report: our booru (image board) is going gangbusters and thanks for the views and help. Tagging is continuing as time allows. Thanks everybody.

>>50904939
Speaking of Blakists, what would you consider the prototypical Blakist OpFor?

>>50905055

As in mindset/personality/play style, or in force composition?

>>50904544
Clan commander got shot dead in a barfight over a stripper

>>50905088
both, ideally.

>>50905107
Do the Clans even have strippers?

>>50905359
In the lower castes, probably.
You could also technically challenge a clan warrior to a Trial by Strip-Off.

Question about C3 networks. If you set up a company scale C3 network, does that mean that any mech in the company can use the targeting data/range bands of any other mech in the company?

On a semi-related note, how should I go about building a mech company? BV? C-Bills? If so what would those budgets be (for a 3055-3065 era force)?

>>50905371
>whoever can flex their shirt off fasted wins

>>50888845
>>50888776
>>50888748

I think part of bt's problem with vehicles is that there isn't a clear distinction between a fully armored and sealed MBT and some truck cabbed vehicle of similar tonnage and movement system.

Because while it makes sense that machine guns, srms, infernos, and lbx pellets might fuck up a military half-track with a missle launcher on the back and lots of exposed equipment, it makes less sense for that same popgun arsenal to ruin an enclosed armored pillboxy tank that is likely cbrn protected.

With MBT vehicles, you could alter their weaknesses/resistances a bit, but also lose the BV discount.

>>50903501

IDK. I think the Bears are the most logical pick if they mean to have the ilClan stick around rather than have the Falcons or Wolves lash out at Terra, occupy it for like 90 seconds, and then be brutally fucked out of existence by everyone else.

The way things are in the 3145+ era only the Bears have a strong enough navy to take Terra, and only the Bears have strong enough ground forces to keep it.

The other way I can see to make the Bears the ilClan would be for the RotS to beg for their help against whoever was behind the HPG plague when they finally attack (I expect WoB II: Blake Boogaloo) only for the Bears to arrive too late and decide that *someone* has to fill the power vacuum.

Least likely IMO is that the Blood come out of hiding and declare themselves ilClan. I'm so fucking over the Wolverines I can't even tell you, so I really hope they don't do that.

>>50905592

>I think part of bt's problem with vehicles is that there isn't a clear distinction between a fully armored and sealed MBT and some truck cabbed vehicle of similar tonnage and movement system.

There is though.

The latter would have extremely shit armour and reference to it in the fluff, or be built with Support Vehicle rules and armoured for shit.

I believe there's a quirk for open-topped stuff that you could apply too.

Or you could build a light tractor unit for the front with decent armour and a gun trailer with shit armour.

>>50905399
>On a semi-related note, how should I go about building a mech company?
Building for what purpose?
If you want random, use whichever mercs book's method you like best. Otherwise, it's pretty much down to whatever feels right (or whatever you have the minis for)
>BV? C-Bills? If so what would those budgets be (for a 3055-3065 era force)?
I wouldn't advise necessarily limiting yourself in any way beyond what YOU think the force you're creating should have. If you want to limit yourself, though, BV works OK, though C-bills don't, not even a little bit. As for limits, I'd go ~15-18k for 3055-60, and 17-22K for 61-65 on

>>50905399

>Question about C3 networks. If you set up a company scale C3 network, does that mean that any mech in the company can use the targeting data/range bands of any other mech in the company?

As long as you set it up right (one Lance with either a dual-master 'Mech and three Slaves or two Master 'Mechs and two Slaves linking to two other Lances with one Master and three Slaves each) then yes, that's the result you will get.

>On a semi-related note, how should I go about building a mech company?

BV. Probably somewhere in the 10-15K range depending on how heavy and high-tech you want it to be.

I wouldn't bother with a C3-linked Company though, the BV cost for it is *exorbitant* at 60% per unit.

Or you can literally upgrade every 'Mech from 4/5 to 1/5 for the same cost which negates long-range modifiers completely and makes it so you hit more often at medium and short range.

Oh, and your to-hit bonus won't come crashing down the second the wrong 'Mech gets shot up or ECM'ed.

TL;DR: C3 is massively overpriced for what it does, don't use it.

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>>50905895
>upgrade every 'Mech from 4/5 to 1/5
what does that mean?

>C3 is massively overpriced for what it does, don't use it
As a Drac, I'm saddened by this revelation

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>>50905929
>what does that mean?

He means spend extra BV to give your mechwarriors a better Gunnery skill, thus eliminating the need for C3 at all.

>>50905051
That reminds me; I need to make an account so I can tag things in my down time.

>>50905895
>>50905961
So C3 one of those things that's theoretically good but in practice is completely pointless because of how inefficient it is in terms of points?

>>50905929

>As a Drac, I'm saddened by this revelation

Wait until you see the 'Mechs we're meant to use the most often.

Then you will know true despair.

To be clear, I don't mind that C3 costs BV. It improves in-game performance, so it should. The problem I have is the stupid-high BV it slugs you for so much as a Lance when you can probably afford to keep the spotter you weren't going to get a to-hit benefit with at 4/5 and upgrade everyone else to 2/5 or at least 3/5 instead. *And* the amount you pay for it can be negated by blowing up the Master or ECMing C3 units, with ECM just becoming more and more common as time goes on. All this with it now requiring LoS to the enemy from the spotter rather than just firing unit to target unit like it used to.

Xotl indicated he was going into bat for a price reduction in the BT Manual but we'll have to see if that got through or not.

>>50906096

It's something you can really only get much benefit from if you're playing a scenario or game that has been set up without the use of BV.

So pretty pointless among the player base these days, where either BV is used or ECM is everywhere so you'll get no value from it in play anyhow.

>>50906096
Pretty much. Another way to look at it is as a scenario tool in the same way MD are - use it to make things scarier for the players, or let the players punch above their tonnage.

>>50906176
>yfw WoB uses both

I will never know the joy of playing a Shadow Division linked Level II

The only activity on the OF IS subforum is about FedSuns dress uniforms.

How close can this game get to death without dying?

>>50906194

I tried running a Shadow Division Level II of good Celestials one time with implants and a C3 link using BV once.

It was 6 v 20 Clan 'Mechs.

I still don't know what possessed me to look at the forces involved and say "Well, maybe the implants are actually good enough to justify their BV cost..."

>>50906250
How'd it go? I assume you didn't win, but what'd you manage to take with you? If you managed like a 6 for 12 or 14 trade, that's pretty impressive.

>>50906240
It could be Leviathans.

>>50906263

It might have gone better if the Clans had fought with Zell (until it was suddenly but inevitably broken by the WoB) but I didn't manage to kill anything. Best-case scenario is probably 3-4 before simply weight of numbers kicked in.

>>50906263

It's the OF, anon. /btg/ gets more posts per day, better posts per day, and usually has a more active group of posters per day.

>>50906295
What ever happened to that game, anyways? I saw it on a shelf and thought it looked pretty neat, but I didn't have the cash to buy the box at the time.

>>50906364
It died on a boat from China. Someone else can tell the tragic story better than I can.

>>50906324
You didn't manage any kills? I figured you'd get somewhere with the implants and full iC3 network...

>>50906364
Gypsy curses, embezzlement and red fuckin' china all conspiracy to do it in

>>50906399

>You didn't manage any kills?

20 'Mechs in the Heavy to assault range combining fire on 6.

In the immortal words of Teal'c: "The mission did not proceed well, General Hammond."

>>50906445
>20 'Mechs in the Heavy to assault range
Ok, that second part wasn't as clear. I figured it was 20 mechs across the weight spectrum. Sure, you were wicked outnumbered, but I figured you'd pick off some lights/mediums or something on the way out. If it was all heavies/assaults though, yeah gg.

>>50906399
>>50906408
Anons pls, I'm on the edge of my seat
This is shaping up to be better than anything Stackpole ever wrote

>>50906487
No, just sad

>>50906487
To be fair, that's not hard, at least as far as BT goes.

If NEA sees this tomorrow, he'll tell the whole sordid tale, and you'll likely be responsible for him being inebriated.

>>50906487
We only really tell that story when we want to get NEA back on the liquor

>>50906509
>>50906529
Who is NEA?

>>50906559
You *are* new around here. NEA is Not Entirely Anon, one of the good namefags in /btg/, along with Xotl, Munnin, and CampaignAnon. 3A is around sometimes too.

>>50906559
One of our holy trinity of namefags

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>>50906487

We warned you it was sad.

>>50906568
Yes and no, I'll sometimes check out threads with fevered interest for a week or two, then forget about them for a couple months - rinse and repeat.

>>50906570
Do tell, what was his relationship with Leviathans?

>>50906568
3A doesn't namefag that often though, I don't think.
>CA
>good
Only if you're not Taurian.

>>50906586
Grief

>>50906586
>Do tell, what was his relationship with Leviathans?

IIRC, assistant line developer, writer, and he both ran and developed from scratch the entire Levs demo program. He also GM'd all the big Gencon Levs events, including a 3-table, 20v20 game that lasted two full days in 2013 (I was in that game between Battletech games, it was ridiculous).

>>50906582
>>50906600
>>50906620

Yikes.
I can't tell if the Battletech license carries some kind of curse with it, or if just every company that's touched it has simply been horribly mismanaged/unlucky.

>>50906656
Both. But also the fucking chinese played a huge part in sinking levs

>>50906483

The BV bloat on C3 and MD enhancements is obscene, particularly when combined with MD being Elite (2/3) pilots on top of all that.

>>50906752
The worst part is the initial shit they did with the "one China" thing was bullshit because they don't pull that on companies with clout. Only on smaller bodies that can't damage their economy in any appreciable way. The dollar speaks. This is why I am still not sure why any company, ever, if they are small and have no parent company to back them up (Topps? Feh) would ever, EVER deal with China. They are about as straight as George Takei.

>>50906568
3A tends not to namefag, generally doing so because Muninn or I forgot something. Or if he wants to be caustic about my inability to design light 'Mechs.

>>50906784

NEA says the only reason they were doing it was to get pre-painted minis.

To which the logical response would be "Don't use pre-painted minis then, you idiots" but, well, CGL.

>>50906827
U wan sum light 'mech for dis TRO, big boi?

>>50906918
Begone foul creature! Tempt me not with your high TMMs and low throw weight!

>>50906958
Light 'Mechs are love; Light 'Mechs are life.

>>50906850
Yeah, that's a lame reason. I'd be kicking myself in the ass over that forever were I CGL. Though, I am not sure they would have ultimately handled it better than Spartan handles DW so... though I guess I'd rather NEA be slightly less of an alcoholic in the long run. I kinda like the guy. Hard not to; he's a hockeybro.

>>50906656
The problem is that the same people have been behind most of the companies. So even though the names change, it's the same shitshow behind the scenes.

>play Overwatch
>get on IRC and talk about socks
Fug, deez choices b hard famalam.

>>50907059
NEA is his own worst enemy

>>50907142
It's true; caring about something too much will eventually turn against you. It happened to me once before; never again. At least, not with fandom or a hobby. Especially something you put some of yourself into. You never get that back.

>>50907189
Nah, there's a way: just stop caring about haters. Enjoy your thing your way and don't apologize or give a shit what haters have to say about it. NEA's issue is that he is passionate *and* cares about the haters and their opinions. He lets them get to him and that's the issue.

You can't care too much about something. You can only care too much about what others think about that something.

>>50907232
Reckon that's true, but it doesn't hold for all circumstances. Like, if the community for a thing you like, that was the only GOOD community for that thing you like, changes for the worse, you can't do much about that, and it really can kill that thing you like somewhat, since you contributed a lot to it and it was all for nothing. How do I know it actually got worse? Well, it died. So... yeah, it objectively got worse. And that's just one instance.

I've never really cared about "haters" though so I can't relate as hard about that. But anyway... GIANT ROBUTTS.

>>50907256
Ok, I'll admit that if the thing you like is a community, yeah you're in for a bad time when it changes. But generally if the thing you like is an actual thing, like a game or book or movie or whatever, you can get invested with minimal downside, as long as you don't let haters and their ilk drag you down.

ANYWAY GIANT ROBOTS ARE COOL AND WHATEVER except ghost bears obviously

Smaller, supercharged SFEs or larger XLs for heavies and assaults?

>>50907274
Unmodified SFEs, like God intended. It's not a real assault if it doesn't go 3/5.

>>50907274
There's no replacement for displacement

>>50907274
Sooperchargerz 4 dayz. They weigh so much less than going to 4/6 on an assault even with an XLFE. With heavies it's not quite so cut and dry unless you're talking the 4/6 to 5/8 change. Then yeah, supercharger. Assaults really get maximum return on SC+TSM though.

>>50907274
Superchargers on 3/5 assaults to take them to 4/6. Definitely also if you are a complete madman and want a 6/9 heavy, stick it on a 5/8

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>>50906850
>NEA says the only reason they were doing it was to get pre-painted minis.

I know I'm hitting the discussion late, but that's not completely accurate. I've got a "what happened to levs" folder with a ton of images I've saved from NEA's discussions of this.

It wasn't a matter of pre-paints specifically. It was a matter of getting injection-molded minis of that size in a tiny print run wasn't viable anywhere but China in 2009.

>>50907232
>NEA's issue is that he is passionate *and* cares about the haters and their opinions.

As I recall, his argument isn't that he cares about the haters. He cares about lurkers and people who are new to these threads not getting hear a counterargument against biased or troll posts. Which is adorably quixotic, in a way. At the same time, I can respect that attitude, even if it is a pointless battle to wage.

>>50907552

>It wasn't a matter of pre-paints specifically.

Your pic literally says it was pre-assembled and pre-painted, and they weren't going to do it any other way.

>>50888776

>Worst thing about battletech
>The cool mechs
>Not the janky fluff

>>50906992

As a newb to the setting, which faction/clan has the best lights/light-speed mediums.

>>50907833
Lyrans and federated suns in the inner sphere

>>50907833
Ice Hellion

>>50907833
>>50907955

For clans Ice Hellion, and certain groups within Hell's Horses and Goliath Scorpion. Clan Burrock did Light mechs well until they were absorbed.

>>50907844
>Lyrans
>Lights
If you want to field and assault recon lance maybe. I'm saying this as a Lyran myself. The Commando is great, but if you want lights pick Kurita.

>>50907976

Certain groups? Ok, I guess I should ask which faction/regiments within that faction then.

>>50908040
I meant more like the fast mediums, and also the wolfhound

>>50908040

I thought Kuritans didn't like mediums - are there any regiments that mix lights and quick mediums together for them? I only know the Amphigean which is just "all lights all teh time" IIRC

>>50908114

Kuritans have Crab which is best fast medium tho.

>>50908114
IIRC some of the regiments on their periphery border are set up that way. Don't remember which ones, though

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>>50908145

DID SOMEBODY SAY CRAB?

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>>50908145

I REALLY LIKE CRABS

>>50908114

They do have medium regiments, I think dislike of mediums is just a samurai thing. So you'd rarely see it in like, the Swords of Light or Otomo.

>>50908233

Their regiments still average medium-weight, but they do it by pumping out a shit ton of Panthers and Dragons.

It's an institutional bias against them, not that they specifically don't have any. So yeah, shitlisted units like the Ghosts and Legions of Vega are more likely to have them than District Regulars.

>>50908040

Lyrans get the Raptor, Fireball, Dart, Scarabus, Wolfhound, and Osiris. FedSuns gets the same.

They have a really good spread of lights in all eras really, but the meme about assaults tends to overshadow that.

If you were to change up the mech production and combat doctrines of the major periphery states to make them more distinctive/interesting on the tabletop, how would you do it?
I'm mostly thinking of 3025-67 era

>>50908337

Well they have a nice selection but do they have any regiments actually good at Lights/Mediums?

>>50908400

A few, yes. Especially after they start incorporating Lightning Companies and Suns innovations.

>>50908398

Taurians are fine already. Magistracy needs to get more options, OA is gimmicked onto ASF, and the Marians are too poor to do much other than ROCKET LAUNCHERS, ROCKET LAUNCHERS FUCKING EVERYWHERE.

>>50908398
The taurians are basically fine. All I'd really change is to maybe add the Toro to their lights and tweak their stated doctrine to be more kurita-esque, lights n heavies, but with less mediums because they don't make many, not because they don't like them.
I'd throw the MoC a factory for a non-shitty light, maybe the Javelin or mayne even the Firebee or something, and give them the Quickdraw in reasonable quantities. Maybe also a Rifleman line, just to give it a periphery source. Give them a doctrine emphasizing mechs as fast attack while heavy tanks pin the enemy in place

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What mech has the best gun to ton ratio in your opinion?

Aw man... These crowdfunded hoodies sound fantastic, but..

-Kurita, preferred faction
>Oh hey nice Mortal Kombat hoodie

-Free Worlds League
(The FWL's logo has been modified to the point of being unrecognisable from the original. If you compared the two without context you'd think they were from different franchises)

-Liao
Sort of ok

-Steiner, Davion
Not the FC. Nope. Would rather wear Clan Fire Mandrill.

My kingdom for a good old Comstar hoodie.

>>50908500
"Gun to ton" is usually irrelevant.
"Gun to BV" is what you need to watch out for.
A mech with lots of boom but doesn't chew up your whole BV budget is nice. That's why the often sought after Mad Cat Mk II is a less than ideal choice in a force.

>>50908500
That would be the Daishi I believe, a 100 ton mech with over 1/2 its tonnage dedicated to weapon space.

That really doesn't matter though, because you can totally misuse weapon tonnage and end up with a pile of shit. See: The base Kracken.

>>50908398
>The 3025 taurians are extremely solid. Only thing that would be a definite add in my book would be toros and maybe a factory with like 6 stalkers a year just to explain where they come from in the periphery.
->The thing is, though, I really like their 3085 thing for FAST RAP HEAVY TAURUS and IJJs, so maybe do something like replace one of their marauder factories with one for the Grasshopper or Guillotine, and maybe replace a second or maybe a warhammer factory with one for an Ost (which would also help fill out their medium deficiency). Possibly make one of their thuds the jumping variant or something close to the -5SE, maybe. Just already have the ball rolling that way straight out the gate, and change their doctrine to have jumpy heavies and lights supporting the solid trooper heavies and toros.
>The MoC should get some second-rate heavies like the Rifleman and Crusader, and maybe the Hunchback or something. Just give them a more decent spread of shit.

>As for the Outworlds, fuck, give them the Rifleman, for AA support (and also because it makes the merlin simpler since they've already got some infrastructure for 4/6 60 tonners), some sort of medium, maybe just Cicadas or maybe Trebuchets or something. As for other stuff? I dunno, fuck it, make them the last bastion of the LAM, just looking full RDF, with imported warhammers and archers to round out the impression. Have them building a couple wasp and pixie LAMs a year. It would certainly make them distinctive
>>50908500
Which tech base? Which era? These are important things to know before giving an answer

>>50908500
The original MadCat is just too damn good. The Devestator is also up there due to it's sheer murdercheese gunline, and the CapCon Stealth Pillagers are cartoonishly nasty if not maximally armed

>>50900138
The Bear and the Dragon.

Might make for a cool scenario with a Guss Burr binary/trinary trying to fuck up (and get past) a company of defending Kurita mechs defending some missile silos. Only way to win is to prevent the launch (destroying the silos).

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>>50908600
>all LAM OA
>mennonite macross
I have the weirdest boner

>>50908398
I like the earlier suggestion to make the Taurians mostly Lights/Heavies to focus on hammer and anvil type tactics. They should never have completely lost the ability to make the Toro, and could use a solid cavalry heavy to round out their production.

The MoC should be based around swarms of Lights and Mediums, with a single super-solid Medium design as something they specialize in. Something a bit oddball would be nice; say the Wyvern maybe? Not too good, but trooper-y enough and decent for the Periphery. Maybe also give them like the Vulcan or something as well, and some other Light design like... the Thorn maybe?

OA... man. You can imagine my face when I realized the Merlin is just a fat Vindicator, but I think they should use only 'Mechs with JJs. Make that their thing. Give them the Rifleman, as suggested, but a JJ variant that replaces the weapons somehow. Maybe it swaps one LL out, puts the other in the CT, then uses the tonnage for JJs and armor? I dunno. The Merlin jumps, and they should have a fast, annoying jumper as a signature Light. Or maybe something like the Firefly? I'd make it so they only had mostly Light jumpers as their 'Mech selection, with an oddball Medium design that doesn't normally jump that now jumps (Trenchbucket was a good suggestion earlier), the RFL JJ, the Merlin, and a jumpy Assault that they make like, two of a year. Victor? Highlander? Hell, give the Highlander to the OA instead of the CC. Makes way more sense, and fits their new doctrine in this AU we have going. Quickdraw is another option since the Dracs have it.

Marians... hm. I think early on they should have like, one Heavy they can make that's not very good but is a kinda tough bastard at least. Then make everything else they have either pillage from the MoC or the FWL. Later on, when they get bigger, give them a factory from the MoC for Lights, and maybe a homegrown design or something they manage to secure the plans for in the Medium category. Hatchetman?

>>50908422
>Magistracy needs to get more options

What, every piece of tech the Capellans have isn't enough?

>>50906054
When you can, thanks for the help.

>>50908398
>taurians
I'm gonna agree with pretty much everyone else, and say jumpy kurita sounds pretty good
>Magistracy
You know, every major faction deviates from the "norm" in one way or another, so I figure SOMEBODY ought to be the 100% baseline average army, so why not make the MoC it? Their actual production is mediocre, but they have some of the best specialists anywhere for rebuilding wrecks into functional mechs and buy whatever they can on the open market, for an extremely 'average' overall assortment of machines
>OA
I'm gonna combine already posted ideas here and think: Say the AMC's mechs are effectively divided into two groups, the all-jumping, lodsa LAMs units attached to the ASF units and the riflemen and imports and locusts and shit units that comprise the second-rate Ground Arm

>>50909123
>>50908711
>>50908600

IDK man. One thing the Outworlds have always relied on against their neighbours is having nothing they want.

An LAM factory in that era is gonna be a high-priority target for both the Dracs and the Suns.

>>50909073

>I'm gonna go REE about what starts to happen over the last nine years of the period the question is asking about, because I'm triggered as FUCK by the Magistracy

>>50909171
>LAMs would draw unwanted attention
Agreed; that's why I avoided suggesting them in my blurb on the subject. Though, to be honest, there comes a point where having ANY 'Mech production at all would draw unwanted attention, most likely, because everyone is so hard up after the 3rd SW. Well, before they re-jiggered the numbers. I suppose this AU uses the new "everyone has way more production than you thought, silly grognards!" timeline retcon thing?

>>50909171
I think it could work in one of two circumstances: A): we're going more AU and the FS has decent LAM production, par with the dracs, or B): the factory sucks, and is in the OA's interior. They sell parts to both states, and neither wants to make the gamble against the OA going fully for the other if they make a play

>>50909202
>Though, to be honest, there comes a point where having ANY 'Mech production at all would draw unwanted attention, most likely, because everyone is so hard up after the 3rd SW. Well, before they re-jiggered the numbers. I suppose this AU uses the new "everyone has way more production than you thought, silly grognards!" timeline retcon thing?
Not OP, but that would probably be a good assumption. That's kinda a general periphery problem. Like, the taurians at least get a pass because 12+ dug in mostly veteran regiments would be a pain in the ass and they'd probably nuke their own factories just to spite you, but the OA and MoC are really just completely fucked if the situation was pre-HB 3025-dire

>>50909217

Yeah but once the Drac factory falls to the Cats the OA have the last one outside the Suns.

It doesn't really bother me that much for my own headcanon/AU where LAMs just aren't a thing and never were aside from some abandoned SL attempts but for a a universe where LAMs are a thing that's going to be a pretty powerful incentive to finally just annex the place.

Particularly since their strength is ASFs and the game always, always ignores space in favour of what happens on the ground. They may as well have no military for what good it would do them if even a half-dozen Drac regiments came calling.

>>50909361
Don't forget that in the aerospace stuff that never matters, the Dracs have a pretty powerful air force as well; the reason a lot of their early TL2 stuff didn't have double heat sinks is that they were being used on their aerospace fighters, right? Sure, it was just an asspull by the authors to explain the bias, but it means that the Dracs wouldn't just get run roughshod over if they took on the OA, even if space/aero combat is taken into account.

>>50909361
>Yeah but once the Drac factory falls to the Cats the OA have the last one outside the Suns.
Yeah, fair point, I was only really thinking 3025. I guess the solution would be to say that since harmony gold doesn't exist here, the Helm Core included the secrets of LAMs, leaving the OA #1 in the periphery, which is to say #6 overall, not worth the hassle

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>>50908337
>shitlisted units like the Ghosts and Legions of Vega

I like how these dishonorabru regiments get some nice 'Mech simply because the turbonuttersamurai ones think of them as un-Drac. Valkyries and Victors, for example, tend to go to the Ghosts, the Vegans and... the Amphigeans, IIRC.

>>50908540
The Free Worlds one should be white and purple.

Incidentally, I'm still pissed off that Tommy "Killjoy" Marik unified the FWL dress uniform on that white and purple model. It was always fun to think that some back-of-beyond provincial force had some really sweet dress uniforms like Hussar kit or trews, or basic greens festooned with medals like South American dictators.

>>50909429
But, the Valkyrie and Victor are bad mechs?

>>50909463
Well, *I've* always liked them, and I've played the Dracs from the start. The Valk is a good standoff light (like the Panther, in fact) so it doesn't have to wade in to fight the big boys, and the Victors (both the AC/20 and the Gauss models) have never let me down.

Maybe I'm just dishonorabru.

>>50909463
Not... really? It depends on what era. I mean, almost everything is usable in the 3020s/4th SW. Anything with an AC/20 on it is automatically scary as fuck, and the Victor's armor isn't that bad, honestly. The Valkyrie is a touch slow, but it's just a fat bug, so... eh. Armor is decent at least. I'm inclined to think it'd be a better machine with twin LRM5s and twin MLs, personally. The LRM10 is just so bad.

>>50909429
>It was always fun to think that some back-of-beyond provincial force had some really sweet dress uniforms like Hussar kit or trews, or basic greens festooned with medals like South American dictators.
I'm 100% with that. The most memorable, from one of my old MW campaigns was one of the independent worlds (I forgot which one I used), where the dress uniform was a set of all-black old-style fatigues, with two bright yellow bandoliers loaded with obsolete 'dress' cartridges (of the type used in that planet's particular round of outer reach rebellion) and either a yellow beret or black stetson as the approved cover.

>>50909477
>>50909487
Mostly my problem's with the Valk; the LRM 10 just isn't really enough, to my mind. The Pahter's nice because if that PPC hits, it's 10 damage in a solid chunk. If it hits the head, that's gonna decapitate some light mechs, and at least go internal on anything with full armor. The LRM 10 though, well, you might not even deal a full 10 points of damage and even if you do it's unlikely it will all be to the same location. It's also, I think, too slow; it might be a Davion Panther, as you put it, but the thing is it's still faster than the Panther but not really fast enough to make up for the lackluster damage. The Panther works because it goes all in on being a pocket Medium, but the Valk's just too fast, so it lacks the tonnage to put out enough firepower, and spends too much on firepower, so it can't be fast enough to be good at speed.

That's my take at least. And the Victor's just always struck me as too little armament outside 9 hexes, and unlike the Atlas it doesn't have the armor to make it work, even with the increased speed and JJs. Though if you've had good experiences with it, fair enough.

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>>50909551

In the Valkyrie's defence, I get the feeling based on its fluff that it was meant to be used in large groups. One LRM-10 coming at you is a bit ordinary, 4 at a time on the other hand starts getting a bit hairy especially for other lights.

The Victor is OK for 3025 but its 3050 upgrade is ass on toast because loldracs. If it was something like these we'd be in business.

>>50909688
True, true, but on the other hand it's still rather sandpaper-y, with multiple Valks. If it cut down on speed and could somehow up itself to an LRM 15, I think I'd be more okay with it. But it's late and I'm tired and not up to the task of thinking how feasible that is or is not.

>>50909688
>The Victor is OK for 3025 but its 3050 upgrade is ass on toast because loldracs
It's not though? It isn't optimal but it's fine, especially considering the worst 3050 has to offer.

>>50909817

It devotes 5 tons to heat sinks you'll almost never need.

It's not as moronic as the Hunchback refit but it's still dumb.

>>50909817
Just because something isn't the worst doesn't make it good, or even fine.

>>50909925
To go a little further, the base Banshee is shit, but it's not the worst introtech assault mech, that being the Charger. But just because the Charger exists, that doesn't make the basic Banshee good.

>>50909171
You sound like a sperg

>>50909429
Honestly the pre-Tommy FWLM didn't make any sense. They'd been a country for seven and a half centuries, with plenty of powerful Captain-Generals in that time and essentially dictatorial rights granted to that office for the last two and half centuries. The federalization of their military was long overdue. Honestly when you read into the fluff about them the provincial flanderization doesn't make any sense.

>>50910615
Yeah, I think the things of 20YU and FMFWL were attempts to fix that, but once WizKids and then CGL got control all they knew was Flanderization.
The provincialism even in the first sourcebook seemed more lightly cultural than institutional. For example the brigades of Oriente are basically federal even then; they've never refused a Captain-Generals order and always answer his/her call to arms. Regulus was the same way until the disastrous Loric campaign under Thaddeus (iirc) in the 3rd Succession War, and even afterwards still almost always answered the call to battle. For them it wasn't until Kirc Cameron-Jones shit the bed that they got uncontrollably obstinate. And as for the other provincial forces, they were little more than border forces anyway. Besides Andurien, who also flipped on how cooperative they were from leader to leader until Morgaine Humphreys was killed in an attempted coup by her own troops (which must have led to a purge of the Defenders and paved the way for Catherine's ambitions) all the most uncooperative provincial units were in the Terran corridor and literally better off defending their own worlds anyway.

So yeah, I see what you're saying. Plus the white uniforms look cool. They could have left regimental uniforms though (the AFFS seems to have them even though I don't think I've seen them mentioned in their sourcebooks).

>>50910615
but muh rebellions

How else can we explain them sitting out all of Hanse's cunning plans

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>>50906568
>>50906588
>>50906827
Yeah, I only take up the name when needed, otherwise I prefer to stay anon.

>>50906992
If the enemy can hit you, you're not going fast enough.

>>50910853
Why bother trying to explain it? Just accept that it's bad writing that exists to allow all of Hanse's stuff and move on.

>>50910615
>>50910775
>>50910853
It's just the result of them being an NPC faction. The writers didn't expect you to overlook the Good Guys (Steiner & Davion) and Bad Guys (Liao & Kurita).

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Her Celestial Wisdom has a task for you before you are to become her consort:

Design a ten ton heavier Omni-Vindicator for the Dark Ages.

>>50910775
>And as for the other provincial forces, they were little more than border forces anyway.

Which is always a bit of down for me, since it's always the big names who get the limelight. Instead of seeing Free Worlds Guards or the Oriente Hussars all the time, why not the 1st Bn The Eromanga Regiment, or The Conakry Lancers, or something. I bet the little guys of the FWL would love to have some glory showered on them, but every time it's something big it's always the FWLM, the FWG and the Oriente lot who get the job. I don't have Brush Wars to hand, but IIRC even during Anton's temper tantrum or the Andurien crisis the neighbouring single-planet forces sat the whole thing out.

>>50910975
>Liao
I make it a habit to not stick my dick in crazy.

>>50910975
Not sure if Romano or Danai. The timeframe suggests the latter, but...

>>50911276
Weren't both Romano and Candace said to be mega hotties? Both got the looks but the other got all the sanity.

>>50906992
Ravannion pls.

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>>50910975

Here,

>inb4 you madman, you built an Omni with Stealth armour but no fixed ECM!

This lets you decide if you want to have Guardian or Angel powering it depending on what you want to do when you switch it off.

If you actually wanted a 4/6/4 base chassis, tough luck though. Although it might save me from having to stick my dick in crazy, and life as a Servitor or sentenced to Brazen Heart is probably a kinder fate.

>>50911309
Yeah, I'm okay with a little crazy, but Romano... that's a bit much.

>>50911190
Yeah, a lot of those regiments should be some balls-to-the wall bastards. A lot of the ones from inner worlds, especially, probably ought to make a career within the FWL out of being specialists. "Oh, we need to make a hot drop at night onto a submerged installation on a low-gee world with a toxic atmosphere? Get the Tapachula Gendarmes, this is right up their alley."

>>50911336
>Snub PPC loadout...
Is there ever a real reason to have a Snub nose PPC?

>>50909202

It might be anachronistic but you could try and shoehorn in partial wing/IJJ technology into their mechs. That would keep them from getting anything too heavy as well.

>>50902840
what about white b1rd?

>>50911190
Are you talking like two planet/single province militia type units? Those usually would sit out fights like Anton's Rebellion and the Andurien Crisis since they're usually mostly conventional forces. And the majority of the mech-equipped provincial forces (Sirian Lancers, Protectorate Guard, Silver Hawk Irregulars, Stewart Dragoons) are on the Lyran border.

I agree with Oriente getting a lot of the limelight, but then they had 11-12 regiments since the game began.
I would have preferred a little more light on the Marik Militia and Atrean Dragoons & Hussars.

>>50911367
With regards to conventional forces, a lot of them probably are. FM FWL paints a picture of a *load* of unique armor, infantry and even aerospace units supporting line FWLM regiments.

>>50904279
Reminds me of the time in MWO I put some flavor of lrm into a raven's narc slot, it shit out the missiles one at a time in a constant stream.

>>50911369
when you want to hit people reliably at nine hexes?

>>50911428
>With regards to conventional forces, a lot of them probably are. FM FWL paints a picture of a *load* of unique armor, infantry and even aerospace units supporting line FWLM regiments.

And like everything else FWL related, they never get any press.

They should still have wacky specialist mech regiments though.

>>50911428
>Are you talking like two planet/single province militia type units

Yep, and that's precisely what I'm talking about. They're not planetary militia per se - The Eromanga Regiment (regimental motto: "No It's Not Dirty Drac Comics") would be that member state's own armed forces, and as such it would be in each state's interest to maintain as well-outfitted armed forces as possible. One or two 'Mech companies to support regiments of armour and infantry, or the like. Note that I'm not talking about a FWG style TO&E of first line stuff (those MAD-5Ms and others would naturally go to the big boys). Especially on the FWL's western border, where there would likely be a major piracy problem, even Wasps, Cicadas, Trebuchets, an Archer or two plus a couple of Warhammers would certainly fit right in as an anti-pirate first line forces.

>>50911556
When you think about it, the FWL should be the sleeping giant in a big way - each planet has an incentive to maintain its own regiment, the inner planets have pretty much never been touched since the 2nd SW, and the FWL hasn't been involved in the later fighting to the same degree as everyone else. So while the FWL is normally just doing its thing, if the CG is ever given a reason to get a hundred Home Guard regiments off their ass, everyone around better watch out.

>>50911369

I don't think so but it is regarded as a memetastic weapon for some reason.

I'd rather drop the extra ton and get a proper PPC or an ER PPC, or save another ton and get a Large or ER Large Laser, or just have two Light PPCs.

>>50911651
What about a Light PPC with a capacitor, then a trio of MLs make up for the short range deficiency?

>>50911682

Also acceptable, but NOT MUH SNPPC.

I will say that when I built it I was thinking about being able to exploit a 9-hex short range with 10 hexes of movement and Stealth penalties against return fire.

It's one of the few niches where I think the SNPPC will actually earn its keep.

>>50911607

Everyone is supposed to have retarded amounts of planetary militia, which is what those Home Guard units would be.

Militia get ignored 99.99% of the time in the fluff because they're just irrelevant. They get stomped by frontline units like those listed in the FMs and have their work cut out for them as auxiliaries after a planet has been captured.

The 4th SW was notable as the one the FWL basically sat out but that was after the Andurien Secession and Duncan's civil war had done their damage to the FWLM. They were very involved in SW 1-3.

>>50911852
>SW 1-3
Why did I read that as Star Wars 1-3? I need to get the hell away from /tv/ more often.

>>50911852
>supposed to have retarded amounts of planetary militia, which is what those Home Guard units would be

I think at least the better FWL planetary defence forces would be more like the FS March Militias - not up to the standards of the big operators, but not the "farmer with a bolt-action and Vedettes" style of troops what most people believe militias are like.

>>50911556
Those are cool, but while per se they may be possibly classified as "provincial forces" rather than simply "planetary militia", they are essentially the latter and so sadly it's hard to find the writers giving something so humble in the League any book time when even the Free Worlds Legions and Guards never got squat. I'm sure a lot of them have very unique provincial home guard forces judging from FMFWL.
Besides with federal taxes and all their militia aren't going to be all that much. It's not really their own "armed forces", it's essentially a minor defense force since the minor provinces have delegated national defense to the federal government. More akin to honor guards, militias and home guard type things.
The provincial mech forces are the exceptions. Oriente has basically been federal for centuries, Regulus was rich and spared the horrors of the Succession Wars so it was easier to maintain some mech regiments (plus they actually were fantically loyal to, and supported by, successive Captain-Generals for generations), Andurien had federal help in raising its forces, the Sirians came from existing regiments, as Protectorate Guard and Stewart Dragoons. I think the Silver Hawk Irregulars are the exception, being raised by the provinces of the Coalition, and closest to what you're looking for.

>>50911607
Tech-wise that stuff would probably be really outdated. Anything decent would probably have been bought or requisitioned by the federal government, or whatever neighboring major province whose influence they fall under.

>>50912348

FedSuns and Lyran March Militias *are* the big operators though.

They have "militia" in their name but they're 'Mech regiments with ASF, vee, and infantry support.

The only real difference between them and a unit with low priority for upgrades is that they lack assigned transport and rarely leave their duty postings, wereas a normal line unit gets transport assets and will be used on offensives as well as defenses.

>>50912529
>FedSuns and Lyran March Militias *are* the big operators though.

They're supposed to be, in theory, but it really depends on state to state, march/theatre to march/theatre, and formation to formation. Some are barely above planetary militia, a handful have practically been front line forces.

>>50912667
>Some are barely above planetary militia, a handful have practically been front line forces.

Which is exactly what I think the FWL provincial forces would be like. Some, like - say Norfolk, safely in the middle of the League with no enemies in sight, would probably have the planetary militia sort of stuff, where people sign up for the extra eagle and the fancy uniform. However, some places, like the string of planets from Shuen Wan to Furud (right on the doorstep of the dastardly Capellans) or on the other side of the League, like the Lahti - Corbeanca - Goth Khahar - Romita arc (hell, the whole Rim Commonality who I think only got an army write-up in 3085) that is close to the equally dastardly Marian Hegemony would have those bigger and better defence forces.

New thread
>>50912867

>>50912808
I agree. I'd see them as combined arms battalions and maybe regiments in the vein of march militias application-wise if not necessarily tech-wise.

>>50912808

I doubt they'd be rolling with a regiment of 'Mechs though, which is the sticking point for me when talking about units that aren't listed in FMs.

I wouldn't expect units not making an entry there to have any more than a company of 'Mechs. A battalion would really be stretching my suspension of disbelief and anything more than that would snap it entirely.

And that's kinda the problem. Only 'Mech forces are relevant 99.99% of the time. It's the very rare occasion where planetary militia (or that tier of forces) prove more than a speedbump for invaders.

They'd see of pirates and the like but their value beyond that is a bit questionable.

It's also something that has to be accepted as a conceit of the setting, otherwise everything falls apart when someone asks how the average invasion force manages to take a planet that has a militia with 3 regiments of vees, a conventional fighter wing or regiment, and 5+ infantry regiments. BT's just not built to handle that.

>>50912908
A battalion of 'Mechs wouldn't be out of place in the areas I mentioned, though - one is right next door to a historical enemy, the other next to a famous pirate state. In fact, in addition to the kit the defence force has bought, there would be salvaged 'Mechs taken for their use, especially on the FWL/CC border.

I'll do a couple of examples. First, Norfolk, safe and sound in the middle of the League:

>1 'Mech company
>1 battalion of armour
>3 regiments of infantry

Then Scarborough - on the border with the CC, with six Capellan planets within a single jump and only two jumps from bloody Sian:

>1 battalion of 'Mechs (these would be home-built machines leavened with captured Capellan stuff like Vindicators)
>2 armoured regiments
>5 infantry regiments

How's this sound?

>>50913361
Not entirely improbably. Just depends on your campaign group. There are large unlisted mech forces pretty much everywhere. As long as they're not sporting Clan tech I don't think anyone would cry boo.

What do you mean by home-built though? Like a retrotech factory? I'd just go with basic 3025 type mechs and maybe some homegrown refits as needed, so stuff like Hermes IIs, Trebuchets, Wolverines, Bugs all around, the odd Cicada, a Quickdraw or two, and maybe if they're lucky an assaulted bought (Stalker), handed down (a Thug?) or captured (a Highlander 733).

>>50913521
>What do you mean by home-built though

Shit, should have clarified this one. I meant 'Mechs built in the FWL, like Wasps, Cicadas, Trebs and the like, Archers for fire support and Warhammers as the heavy hitters, plus maybe a Marauder (-3R, -3M or -3L) for the battalion commander.

>>50909516
Sounds a bit like Lo Pan's street gang. I approve 120%.

>>50908500
Gun is 50% gun.

>>50911369
For the god-tier short range? Stick one on a Spider or similar and kite the hell of heavier mechs by sticking at 9 hexes and trading fire from your short to their medium or long range