/cofd/&/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness General

>>50867526
>krampus
Isn't he like a fae huntsman kidnapper? or how would you still do that in 2ed?

>>50867526
>Who or what is the krampus?

Annoyingly enough, a Beast.
He only kidnaps kids who are "naughty".
That's very much within the idiom of Beasts.

>>50867786
I think he'd probably be an Anakim with a Hunger for Punishment. His preferred targets are naughty children.

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>>50867786
>the moment when beast teach stupid children not to talk to strangers, in our helicopter parents suburbain world. Except for those few times where they outright kill children, so the rest of the children know not to talk to strangers.

I feel that some of this is unnecessary. and not worth the causality rates

>>50867526
Ancient Ventrue.

>>50867526
>Who or what is the Krampus?

Are you seriously asking me what an otherwordly kidnapper is in the CofD? He's one of the Fair Folk, straight up, and probably tries to turn bad children into more Krampii.

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>>50868564
Christmas theme mate. Got to go with it :P


A guy I know is trying to splice The Thing and Krampus into a Christmas themed horror game. Anyone ever try this? Or should we try a more general winter adventure set during Christmas?

>>50868545
not Nos or Gangrel for all the hooves?

What if the Krampus is just some guy?

>>50869825
No. He must be a mage/Nosferatu/demon/sin-eater!

>>50867526
Why are we ignoring Aspel?

>>50870402
>Why are we ignoring Aspel?

If you know who Aspel is and are still asking the question, you are part of the problem.

>>50870361

Yeah, but what if he's just some guy?

>>50870402

I assume it's because no one, even the person mentioned in the OP, wants to take my advice: https://youtu.be/SlKao_Pox5A

>>50869825
A really crafty serial killer, off his rocker with crazy

>>50868697
That Santa Fight was horrifying

>>50867984
>I feel that some of this is unnecessary. and not worth the causality rates
Welcome to Beasts.

This is even Mummies' opinion on them, and Mummies are ALL ABOUT being beholden to ancient, out-of-date value systems.

Is it even possible to rape a werewolf(Uratha or Garou)?

>Someone is trying to rape.
>Death Rage
>Lots of gore

>>50871972
>s it even possible to rape a werewolf(Uratha or Garou)?

Even Thyrsus mages would find the idea "ill-advised."

>>50870402
Because not doing so results in the entire thread drowning under Aspel arguing with anyone and everyone who'll talk to him.

>>50871972
Depends on what Gifts the werewolf has access to. If they have the Cunning facet of the Gift of Strength, for example, it is impossible to restrain the werewolf. It works exactly as well on iron chains as it does on completely isolated pocket dimensions.

I M20 any good? Or any Mage game, that is.

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>>50872162
>M20
>good

>>50870402
>>50870437
>>50870455
Ignore all posters.

>>50872162

M20 is having to swim in a sea of shit for the good parts.

As a rulebook mage revised or 2nd is better.

>>50872017
You can't rape the willing. >:-3

Need something inspirational or just crazy?

Behold the old Time of Judgement Newsticker!

http://web.archive.org/web/20060821180345/http://timeofjudgment.com/newsticker.html

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Is it possible for someone to find nosferatu attractive? Is it possible for a toreador? I mean, if you remember Imalia from Bloodlines, she's actually beautiful in a creepy sort of way. Or if you look at fan art such as pic related.

>>50873328
From what I understand, it's more of a possibility in Requiem than in Masquerade.

If you managed to get your hands on some incendiary rounds they'd completely fuck up a vamps shit right?

>>50873302

The ToJ ticker is maybe one of the best "shit's getting real" things that I've read in a long while.

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>>50871972
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_and_Lorena_Bobbitt

The cover up

>>50873911
Depends on the version, and in said version, how much Fortitude/Resilience/other damage reduction power they have.

>>50873959
Well let me rephrase, they'd be a lot better than regular bullets right? I mean shit packing tracers to go up against them would be better.

>>50873328

Yes actually there is a cannon Nos in Requiem New Wave that uses her physical beauty with her fearsome gaze to become a dominatrix. Nothing stops Nos from taking Striking looks. Basically you're having to constantly combat an inborn curse

>>50873328
Imalia is fucking hot

>>50873302
>read the entire thing in the voice of the PT radio announcer
>it immediately gets 10 times creepier

>>50873987
They'd be better than regular bullets yes, in the sense they do aggravated damage. So definitely better.

>>50874723
having blanket damage type replacement feels like a bad idea.

A dice pool of 5 lethal dam becomes 5 agg dam. And this can keep scaling upwards into insanity.

The science behind tracers rounds is a flare trail. If I were making the call I'd just say every hit causes an additional level of agg damage, and might catch the vamp on fire, if the dice gods will it.

Still pretty good but not dragon rounds level of BS

>>50873328
i saw some pretty cute nos art once in a long lost corner of deviantart, and we're talking masquerade here
sure she had no hair and elf ears and vaguely green skin but her face and body were really cute
i figure unless you had a very lenient st you couldn't actually make a nos character like that though

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>>50875073
Here's another probably unrealistically cute nos

>>50875039
>dragon rounds vs vampires

Fuck me I'd be terrified if I was a fangface.

>>50875701
>Dragon's Breath
simplest analog

DnD Dragonborn Breath weapon. Shotgun range, but fuck you fire cone. and easily derails stories in which it appears. Just stick to swords at close range and don't bother with these unless you start to hate your players

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>>50875701
>>50875901
>"Oh thats cute he thinks a gun will be able to hurt m-"

>>50875933
I actually think their OWoD damage rate is like an 8?

>>50875933
Reasons to buy Fort

Is Beast actually bad? I haven't read the rulebook yet but the concept sounds interesting enough, especially if it was in a mixed chronicle.

>>50877833
Beast's core problem is the fact that beasts are murder-rapists who actively abuse and torture people by their very nature, and the entire gameline spends all of its trying desperately to convince you that they aren't villain protagonists.

Also the fact that the book goes out of its way to make their main antagonist an MRA caricature who barely even register as a threat

>>50877833

Here is some reading material
https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/comments/38m7wm/beast_the_primordial/

http://projects.inklesspen.com/fatal-and-friends/kurieg/beast-the-primordial/

Lets not have a huge thread fight over this. Largely it is mechanically simple which is good for new players or playing off splats in a mostly one splat game. But its themes and writing have a lot of unfortunate implications

If run well you could have yourself a really interesting idea. but I find it's whole thrwoing the narrative upside down. silly when I can just do that in any other game without needed a new splat with baggage

>>50877918
>a threat
to be fair. He did run over a beast with his car. which says more for the lethality of car collisions than for his wit, but its something at least

>>50877833
The idea behind Beast isn't a bad one. You could do cool things with it. As-written, it's a splat that assumes primacy over every other splat and is written with a layer of immense smugness smeared across the top. It takes itself too seriously, asserts its themes over the themes of other nWoD games, and does its damnedest to make the splat Objectively Right.

>>50871972
>Is it even possible to rape a werewolf(Uratha or Garou)?

Garou werewolves? Yeah, the Black Spiral Dancers in particular have been known to torture their fellow Garou, and one of those ways of torture is rape, unfortunately.

I've had the weirdest dream tonight. It was about how Batman's parents were killed not on the orders of Falcones, but rather Giovanni, so he swore revenge against the supernatural and became a hunter, who kept Gotham safe.
I wonder if it could work.

>>50877939
Great review. Thanks. Won't burn my money on this shit.

>>50871972
Frenzy/Death Rage doesn't actually make you stronger, so why would that be a counter? Just because the werewolf gets very angry (as someone being raped usually is) doesn't mean their situation has improved at all.

>>50880321
>Frenzy/Death Rage doesn't actually make you stronger
...
...
Traits: Strength +3, Dexterity +1, Stamina +2, Size +2

>>50877918
>>50877939
>>50879117
There is also the fact that Beasts have a mystical "all other supernaturals love me" field. Which turns them into grade A Mary Sue's.

The biggest problem however is that Beast lacks an internal conflict. Heroes aren't conflict, they are obstacles. Beasts don't have any large-scale enemies to work against.

>>50880321
Frenzy is a vampire thing, and that sure makes you stronger.

Death Rage doesn't INHERENTLY make you stronger (apart from the killing form), but they use many of their powers for free when they are in it. And that makes them terrifying.

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>>50867526
A strange, sexy creature

>>50879934
I think it could be cool. Could it support an entire Justice League of Darkness though?

>>50879934
There's some dude who is using DC And Batman stuff whole cloth, complete with a game set in Gotham, using NWoD supernaturals and system. Perhaps you could ask him about whatever changes he's made to the setting.

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>>50881253
It never actually got off the ground.

>>50879934
I didn't get to develop it much, but I gave my players a set up that used familiar elements.
No Man's Land basically happened years ago, and it was Thomas Wayne who kept the city together, and he got involved in politics after the city's order was restored. He and Martha were killed because of their political aspirations, and Bruce was sent away. The story basically started back up when Bruce was coming back to the city.

The player pack's Totem was The Detective On Leather Wings, which was a spirit that came into being because of young Bruce obsessing, and would be what eventually lead to him being Batman.

The pack's first threat was going to be a version of Solomon Grundy that was an Extempore of sorts. I also had plans for using that whole Wonder City part of Arkham City.
But I could only find three people who were remotely interested in Werewolf, a fourth that really wasn't, and when stress got to one player (and me) I basically had no game.

>>50881433
>>50881253
>>50880640
>>50879934

>IGNORE X

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Has anyone met the Unholy in game? I'm looking for inspiration for when I drop her on my players' plate.

>>50871972
Technically speaking from a theoretical perspective, it is possible.
Other garou in WoD do that constantly, in both ends.
Back in the 1st / early 2nd edition days, a good percentage of BSDs were rape cub rejects, who couldn't be adopted even by Bone Gnawers.

>>50882167
When I was part of the Mind's Eye Society LARP group, I met her a couple of times at conventions (it helped that my lineage was descended from her, an Ordo bloodline that clung to the belief that she was Anoushka given over to a failed, or successful depending on how you look, Coil that mitigated the effects of Diablerie).

I also knew the player who portrayed her well. But she was portrayed in the LARPs as a very soft-spoken individual who had a very 'actions speak louder than words' mentality, but when she spoke, and it was a big deal when she would actually converse, she was... eloquent isn't the right word. She was rough and abrasive, but intensely inisghtful and direct and to the point. She was also leaning very much into the Gangrel flaw as a roleplay aspect, and so her insights were viewed through a very visceral intellect.

Freude!

>>50882465
So, she didn't lay waste to the domain, is what you're saying?

>>50882917
She didn't lay waste to the hosting domain, no. She wasn't social; it was more of a 'seek her out if you dare' kind of situation. She was there to kill a powerful Invictus who was trying to bring the Prima Invicta from the Danse Macabre book into existence (and it turned out the guy was Strix-possessed, so we thought she was there for that primarily). She did kill some PCs and NPCs, but the majority of the game treated her as an insane boogeyman that didn't warrant fucking with. The main people that interacted with her were a few Invictus who tried to bring her in for diablerie, the lineage I was part of (and even then some of us got our asses kicked just sky of final death) and a few others who poked at the bear.

They presented her as a boogeyman, but she had an underlying mission there.

>>50883005
Hm. Alright. Thanks for sharing. Seems she was there with a quite specifically political mission then. I think I prefer her more as an apocalyptic force of nature.

>>50883069
I'd say less political and more motivation for the strix (at least that's how I took it, after she killed the guy and the Strix leapt out of his and a couple of other big mover-and-shaker bodies). I always took it that she had some grudge against the Strix and were trying to eliminate them, though I left the MES shortly after that convention.

This version was also somewhat tailored for the MES LARP setup, in which 'being there with the sole goal to kill PCs and roll a domain' is not really something that generates good plot.

>>50883094
Fair enough. So how did she murder them, the guy and the strix?

>>50883125
I remember there being a fairly short combat for a LARP, only about 6 rounds. I was far enough away that I didn't see what chops were thrown, but I would assume she used claws, combo with vigor and probably some crazy high BP attributes due to her diablerie. She and all of our lineage had the big huge claws that were full on bird talons from the elbows down, and we got Vigor as an in-clan Discipline from her lineage. I don't recall if she killed the Strix, I just recall them abandoning their possessed bodies.

>>50881929
Good job solider. The quarantines must hold

Freude!

http://theonyxpath.com/2016-year-in-review-matthew-dawkins/

I think this is our first actual text look at Half-Damned, right? First look at its fiction, at least.

>>50885807
I hope the new dhampir rules will be better than the old ones. I also wouldn't mind seeing other forms of vampires like weakling daywalkers.

>>50873328
>Is it possible for someone to find nosferatu attractive?

There's always going to be people with out-of-the-ordinary fetishes. Somewhere out there there's probably quite a few who'd want to bang a Nossie.

But, it depends heavily on the Nossie in question.

If the Nossie just has chalk-white skin, baldness, some scars, extra long fingers, a really raspy voice, that sort of thing? Yeah, I could buy it.

If the Nossie's face is actually like melted cheese, a mouth shaped like a lamprey, their body absoutely infested with leeches and ticks, has constantly-open sores that spew out pus, an inability to control their flatulence and other similarly "fun" social problems... then I doubt it. I mean, sure, there's gonna be that one guy/gal that enjoys that sort of thing no matter how fuked up you look, but it goes without saying that they'd be part of a very exclusive club.

So, what would an Acanthus do with Space?

>>50889613
You know how that witch can be tracked down comparatively easily, and needs to actually see or touch you to curse your ass?

Not any fucking more.

Fuck up people's social skills, know where people are all the fucking time, curse people from the safety of your home, hide your home from discovery, teleport about without a single fuck, trap people in spatial bubbles, hide ludicrous amounts of crap in your pockets, and hide in the little cottage you excised from the Fallen world.

>>50872162
Phil Brucatto utterly ruined M20. The book is a hard to read phonebook full of conflicting and confusing rules. Ignore it and collect Revised or 2e era books.

>>50889613
Become Santa Claus

From a narrative point of view, is Resilience 'preventative' or 'postoperative'


A vampire with 5 dots of resilience gets his arm caught in a wheat thresher, upon which he activates Resilience:

Does his arm get torn off, causing an amount of damage that could possibly be fully soaked via resilience, meaning its a cosmetic wound that can be healed for 1 vitae?

Does the thresher fail to dismember his arm for a purely narrative reason?

Does the actual action of having your arm removed mean that the thresher did such a high amount of damage that you couldn't actually soak it all?

>>50889940
It's like the first episode of Smallville, where CLark shoves his arm in the thresher. It doesn't do damage as Resilience is reflexive, activating BEFORE the damage is done, and hardening the flesh to resist the damage; anything aboe the resilience reduction is then damage, so if it's a lot it may be more than cosmetic.

>>50886619

I think we're supposed to get Dhampirs, expanded Revenants, and at least one more minor template, but don't quote me on that.

>>50889940
"Subtract his Resilience dots plus one from all non-bane sources of damage. Mechanically this is similar to armor, but does nothing to reduce the visual and superficial signs of injury."

Regardless of whether you decrease the damage or not, if the effect would have torn off your limb or turned it into a bloody wreck without it, then that's exactly what it does.

You first decrease actual damage as normal per Resilience.

Then spend Vitae, either to take you back to your health before that injury, regenerating your arm in the process, or spend 1 point of Vitae to heal the cosmetic wound (if you took not actual damage after reduction) and get your limb back anyway.

What can the mages and werewolves do to spectacularly attack someone else's turf?

So I have a session coming up, players want to play Vampire Requiem, and one of the players will only be here for a week. There's some new players who have never heard of WoD, and I want to show them around. They are kind of murder hobos.

I'm trying to show them the cooler aspects of Mages, Werewolves, and Hunter in a story that can be wrapped up in 3-5 sessions. I'd like to show them the cooler aspects of those games that could be achieved as a player, and maybe encourage them to come back.

So my thought was just to have them protect the Prince's domain from mages, werewolves, and uppity hunters. Problem is, I don't very much about Mage or Werewolf. Thoughts?

>>50890896
If you put Vampires up in a direct conflict against Mages (which is likely considering you described them as Murder-Hobos) then you're either going to need to sell those Mages short, or get prepared for a whole load of those Vampires getting burnt to ash.

Mages mostly care about their Obsessions, supernatural aspects of the world they investigate to learn more, and enhance the power of their souls, so they can eventually ascend to what is essentially Godhood.

Similar story with Werewolves, but that's easier. Excess Vampire feeding is fucking with local Resonance, or giving death/blood/pain/lust spirits a nice place to hang. Which is fucking with the local Uratha's carefully cultivated Spirit ecosystem.

>>50890896
Don't do mages. It's always a headache.

>>50891016
>mage superiority

>>50890896
Do blood sorcery if you're not willing to read up on mages. They cause frustration when they're play overpowered. Mostly from the misconceived perspective of DnD wiztards. Up close and personal mages are kind of fucked, yeah they can do some cool tricks, but they're still fleshy humans who die to bullets. Where they shine is when they have time and planning on their side. If they have fore knowledge, or good guess work, they can prep shielding, environment and sight spells to level the playing field. Like putting up a flame shield before going into the dragon's lair but then finding out it's an ice dragon instead.

They're the investigation and ritual splat. A surprise shotgun to the back of the head takes them out. And the mechanics actually reinforce that theme. kind of like glass cannons. Grapples take them out. So in actuality any conflict with mages turns into a spy thriller of deceit, ambush, and cover up.

So unless you're really dedicated to learning mage, just use blood sorcery and fake it. Note of advice for scaling effects. The longer the sorcerer has time to charge and prep their props the nastier the spell will be.

AS for werewolves. they're murdermachines less of an extent in nwod but the quickest solutions is still run it over with the car. so learn the big numbers and combat weapons if you want to include them

>>50890118
Dhampir, Revenants, and Ghouls. Maybe something on the Pjiavica, Jiang Shi, and whatever other not-quite kindred thats out there. I really want something on the mandragora/mandrakes. Vampire winery when.

>>50890896
I don't see how they could protect the domain from mages, unless you want the mages to be severely underpowered, which would defeat the purpose of showcasing them. Even at just a disciple level, any mage from any of the paths would be a pain in the ass to defend something from. Maybe just make it one mage who wants to steal a grimoire or something else magical from the Prince. Have him be the wild card in your story, while the werewolves and hunters provide more direct conflict.

>>50891398
>mage superiority
It's cute you think saying that disproves anything I said.

>>50891486
k don't read then no skin off my back you don't like nwod

>>50891398
>>50891459

Individually, mages are quite formidable, yet hardly insurmountable, adversaries.

Mage *cabals* with even a modicum of Arcana spread and experience, no less if backed by the local Consilium, Assembly or Ministry, are a DEFCON 1 level threat to most other supernaturals if played to their potential. They tend to be sleeping bears that you do not want to poke with a stick. It's also best if mages never find you "interesting." Remember, the primary theme of Mage is just what people are capable of when given vast cosmic power.

Nevertheless, it's true that mages are indeed squishy humans, and if *totally* surprised and met with *overwhelming* numbers and force, might fall. However, most mages not only have significant offensive and shielding capabilities, but also a number of immediate "get the hell out of Dodge" powers like flight, teleportation entering other dimensions, etc. Once the element of surprise is lost, and the mages know the identity and nature of the threat, it's basically game over. No other splat has the capability to deal death and destruction at a great distance over a wide area without even being present.

More importantly, surprising mages, particularly if any Acanthus are around, is also far easier said than done.

A good explanation of the threat that mages may present is discussed in the Demon Storyteller's Guide, p.130-32.

>>50891708
Thats a numbers game kid, you're applying all possible powers of a splat to one character. It's not a might fall. It's a coin flip. and we have a system to play out the conflicting counter powers clash of wills.

and you can't just get around the sympathy mechanics by just knowing the enemy. and the Withstand mechanic actually makes these situations way less one sided.

Each iteration of mage has been stabilizing their quadratic curve of power. They have power yes, and they do have a lot of it. but to bring it to bear they need time and prep.The tighter their constraints the less they can death star and the more they have to laser pistol. unless you want to say fuck it and take off all the safety locks. and the mage is just as likely to get blow back or just fuck up.

At the end of the day its conflict without a clear winner. which makes for the story

>>50872764
>>50889690
Any 2nd or revised books you'd say are "must haves"?

>>50892153

The Guide to the Technocracy and all of the Convention books. I'm also a huge fan of what I think was Bitter Road, and then the Dark Ages and Sorcerer's Crusade stuff is very neat.

>>50892220
Are any of those in particular helpful for really getting players into the idea of paradigm? M20 seemed super weak on it.

>>50892248

Just use the advice I always use for new Mage players: why the fuck aren't we playing Unknown Armies instead?

>>50892253
I've got the new version on the way when it's done.

>>50891998
>you're applying all possible powers of a splat to one character

That's exactly what I DIDN'T do.

In fact, I specifically detailed how mage cabals are far stronger than the sum of the individual mages precisely because of the Arcana spread. In many ways, it similar to a werewolf pack.

Also, the Mage setting emphasizes that mages, as essentially human, are particularly social in nature. Primarily for purposes of defense, mages form cabals and are part of Orders and Consilia, Assemblies and Ministries.

I would additionally note that killing a mage does not end the problem. Mages are particularly good at finding out things like who killed their friend, and then carefully and meticulously ensuring that the perpetrators few last days are particularly unpleasant.

Besides the fact that in CofD the major splats have no inherent antipathy towards one another, the power players among the various groups would likely try to prevent altercations that could quickly and needlessly spiral out of control. I assume that in most territories, the major splats informally follow a mutually assured destruction theory of relations. I similarly imagine this really sucks for the lower tier supernaturals like psychics and hedge wizards who have no social or supernatural leverage.

>>50892267

Book 4 just went out to backers and was tight!

I saw that Hurt Locker has been shared.

Did I miss Secrets of the Covenants?

>>50892312
>>50892267

I'm not familiar with Unknown Armies.

What the elevator pitch?

This thread will like this.

https://www.sendspace.com/file/u30t8b

>>50891708
>It's also best if mages never find you "interesting."
kek so do supernatural creatures all start stepping on eggshells when they hear a cabal or curious mages have come to town?

>>50892386
Lets just say Vampires are going to make double sure you're not a spellslinger before they sink those fangs into your neck.

>>50892270

>>50891708
>However, most mages not only have significant offensive and shielding capabilities, but also a number of immediate "get the hell out of Dodge" powers like flight, teleportation entering other dimensions, etc.

I'm specifically referring to this line. but yeah pretty much.

And if your characters can investigate so can the other side. if your characters bring in more friends, so does the other side. Then it becomes a numbers game. Thusly becoming the spy thriller I deduced it would become earlier.

The interesting conflicts are grudges played out like a batman story of two men trying to out smart each other in a deathly battle of wits.

>>50892386

Nobody and nothing wants to be the subject of a mage's Obsession. Mages kill one another over such Mysteries, no less anyone else. That's the whole point of it being an obsession.

Also all mages are "curious," however only very specific matters rise to the level of Obsession. That's precisely why you don't want to appear *too* "interesting" to a mage.

>>50892425

Mages are too smart and vampires too experienced to normally play out a one-on-one grudge match, and other mages and vampires would not look kindly on being dragged into such hostilities.

As I explained earlier, nascent and unproductive potential violence among the major powers is more likely to be quickly nipped in the bud by the powers that be well before there would be any need to discuss white room power fantasies.

However, if you're not a major splat with such inherent protection, it's an extraordinarily bad idea to piss off any A-List supernatural like a mage or vampire.

>>50892496
>nascent and unproductive potential violence among the major powers is more likely to be quickly nipped in the bud by the powers that be

These would create a political story and also boring and unrealistic. People fight for stupid reasons. and also for resources. that power would require the powers to be to know the motivations and grudges of all characters in the in the city, including the PCs and NPCS. Which is unlikely, not worth the specific effort, for a ?maybe? and way too OP. also God complex

A Batman V Dracula V Helsing conflict is strife with story potential. Investigation, red herrings, layers of obfuscation, Tactical strikes back and forth, Safe houses compromised and burning. Minions and allies falling left and right.

On top of a wayne mansion "It's been fun Mr Wayne May I call you Bruce? I feel like over the past few months, we've really gotten to know each other" The bloody and ragged mass, holds Batmans over the edge about to drop him to his death "Did you really think a mere mortal could beat me?"

"No" coughing blood he confesses "but that was the ..." From behind the two figure, the Slide Clank of a shot gun is heard and from the center of Dracula's torn suit a wooden stake protrudes "plan "A weeving laugh escapes his throat. "I was the distraction"

The two fall over to their dooms as a solitary figure pays the last respects. "Amen"

Can 'high speech' be used as a tactical code language by the arrow/guardians?

"This one is fused with spirit. Beware"
"Targets lifeline ended a century ago. Bring fire."
etc.

>>50892153
Book of Crafts features small groups they dropped entirely from Revised. Digital Web 1 & 2.0, Horizon and Book of Worlds all feature spirit world adventure concepts that were abandoned en masse for Revised. Initiates of the Art / Masters of the Art for either low power or high power campaigns, respectively. The Book of Madness is good for baddies.

Revised has Sorcerer Revised for static magic, Spirit Ways for shamans, Infinite Tapestry for spirit world shenanigans post-Avatar Storm.

Guide to the Technocracy is fucking awesome for Technocracy games or campaigns where the Technocrats are more than 2-dimensional mooks.

The rest of the books, your mileage may vary.

>>50892248

Paradigm is "the hidden forces I see that can be manipulated to get what I want". To a Hermetic Mage, that means the universe is a carefully constructed machine with established correspondences, easily invoked through the use of chalk circles, wands and invocations. To a Virtual Adept, there is a base code underlying the universe and it can be manipulated with a computer running the necessary hardware. To a Celestial Choir-boy, the angels sang the universe into being, and so singing the praises of the One manipulates the universe.

Where M20 screwed the pooch was it hopelessly muddled paradigm with foci, until the individual paradigms that defined the traditions were utterly invalid. The example given in the book has Virtual Adepts - who in Revised and before specialised in hyper-science and cutting edge tech - blissing out on yoga or cannabis to magick their effects into being.

Not even joking.

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>>50893053
>>50893117
I'm running a game of Mage right now, using M20, Revised, and a bunch of house-rules to streamline things. Its fun as shit. Magical hijinks never get old.

PCs are a hermetic magus who focuses on time spells and has a King Arthur fetish, a japanese shrine maiden, a Virtual Adept who never leaves his house and communicates via remote-controlled drone, and an orphan inspires by Jojo's Bizarre Adventure [the first part, not the punch-ghost part].

First few sessions had the PCs sent by Not-Doctor Strange, the strongest Mage in the city, to investigate a new artifact the museum picked up which supposedly was very magical and drawing spirits to it like moths to flame.

They ended up stealing Caliburn, sneaking into the near-umbra only to find the area inside the museum completely flooded and stalked by a monstrous version of the Lady of the Lake, paradox brought a stegosaurus skeleton to life [which was then killed by MiB, before said MiB were left to die at the hands of vampire cartel thugs]

Last session ended with the PCs back at shrine-maiden's house because she was nearly dead from gunshot wounds and currently possessed by the Lady of the Lake, trying to talk her down inside her mind.

Best part is that the shrine-maiden keeps botching all her arete rolls and gaining paradox by the truckload. She's Fumbles the Psyker in Awakened form.

>I'm helping!

>>50893117
>VA
yeah anything that is code heavy or systems based are ripe for their use. how the body translates into a large analytical system is a huge stretch and not something doesn't that just falls out as THE focal point for this group.

Basically the writer is a fool and tried to appeal to the newkids without understanding his own game. We all know it's fucking chaos magic dumb fuck we just need the tools to simulate it. In effect we all might as well be playing orphans which are his pet baby anyways. I mean the Disapparent Alliance are just a rehashing of the traditions. Except they're going after the conspiracy BEhind the conspiracy, which is inception levels of redundant and dumb.

Heard you like conspiracy so we put a conspiracy in your , hey wait what are those mean in black suits doing in the studio? *zamp*

Where the fuck are clan banes fully listed in VtR 2nd edition? I mean the fucking mechanics of it, not the little paragraph in the clan spread.

>>50893704
Clan Banes in the table of contents

page 103 in blood and smoke

>>50893780
Thankyou, it was driving me insane.

>>50893780
Why the hell are you still using B&S?

>>50893286
>Basically the writer is a fool and tried to appeal to the newkids without understanding his own game.

"Rob" Thomas is an even bigger dickhead for completely abrogating all responsibility for the entire M20 line to an asshole that has to beg for his Patreon just to make rent payments.

>>50893286
>tried to appeal to the newkids

You've just listed the biggest fuckup of M20 - the books are supposed to allow newbies into the game, but are such a shitshow even oldtimers are complaining.

>>50873328
In oWoD, no, because "Appearance" is an actual trait. But it's only a -2 to social rolls anyway.

>>50873328
What if someone got catfished by a Nossie online?

Or what if someone was legally blind?

What if there was a Nossie that was utterly in love with a mortal who had been blind since birth, who had no concept of appearance making up beauty?

Possible "true love" storyline there.

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>>50893199

Sounds fucking awesome. Have you ever heard the story of Gawain and the Green Knight? Good idea to fuck over your Arthurian Mage.

I'm planning a VtM game and I was wondering something, even though it probably doesn't even matter and could go either way I want to hear what is most conventional.

If a city has a ventrue prince, then would it also have a ventrue primogen? Are they mutually exclusive?

>>50894753
Funnily enough, the old 90's TV show "Kindred the Embraced" had a Ventrue Prince as well as a Ventrue Primogen. There's no reason not to as long as the Prince isn't so paranoid they'd want to avoid the rest of their Clan.

>>50877833

The first public pdf stuck it's dick directly into the culture war's fanged maw. Worse, it did it in a clumsy hamhanded way where the right wingers were retarded grogs with neckbeards and the left wingers were rapists who casually destroyed lives for kicks(and they were presented ad being cool and bad ass for it).

This was fixed to a certain extent, but there is no recovering your reputation and getting a fair shot after that. I personally don't like it, but I'm not 100% sure how objective that dislike is. It might just be lingering butthurt.

>>50897363
As someone who's part of said fanged maw, I mostly disliked it for being an entirely unnecessary and rather pointless game, when vampires and Autumn Court changelings exist.

So I'm working on a HtV chronicle with a rural setting. The main threat is an old tree where a lot of lynchings took place in the old days, and now it makes people who spend too much time around it become increasingly suicidal. According to the local preacher/cult leader, the bones of an angel are buried in the tree's roots.

I'm not sure if I should stat this as a high-ranking spirit/Claimed or as a regular tree with a 4-5 dot spell on it, or something else. What do you guys recommend?

>>50897377
>being an entirely unnecessary and rather pointless game,

That's bad too, but a game line being kinda pointless won't give you half a dozen >317 posts and 17 images omitted threads.

>>50897422
>I'm not sure if I should stat this as a high-ranking spirit/Claimed or as a regular tree with a 4-5 dot spell on it, or something else. What do you guys recommend?

I'd probably have the tree not actually be the source, but indeed something beneath it that's poisoning the sounding spiritual/mental energies. Perhaps it's the trapped, vengeful remains of someone that was lynched there?

>>50892365
>WoD Thread
>Dresden Game

Wut?

>>50897472
Car crashes and train wrecks aren't going to watch themselves

>>50892315
Nope. People aren't feeding cheapskates like you the book. Go buy it.

>>50897698
That's kind of what I'm leaning toward. I'm running Hunter for a new group, so an Idigam might be way out of the wheelhouse, but it could be a powerful ghost or death-spirit. Do you think it would make sense for there to be a Wound in the area's Shadow, or is that irrelevant to a Hunter game?

>>50894753
Depends on the city.

The Primogen are not appointed by the Prince, they're generally appointed/agreed upon by the clans in the domain, though it's not unheard of for a Clan to not have a Primogen for one reason or another. Generally though, each of the core 7 (either Gangrel, or Assamite as the 7th, depending on if you're playing Revised or Gehenna-era) would have a Primoge, regardless of if their Prince is the same Clan or if their Prince is somehow a Carpathian Tzimisce or a Lasombra Antitribu.

>>50897472
>half a dozen
I'd call it twice that, easy. It STILL derails threads, sometimes.

>>50898295
Some people aren't cheapskates, some just legitimately have no disposable income they can justify spending on games.

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>>50887151
>If the Nossie's face is actually like melted cheese, a mouth shaped like a lamprey, their body absoutely infested with leeches and ticks, has constantly-open sores that spew out pus, an inability to control their flatulence and other similarly "fun" social problems... then I doubt it.

>>50898314
>That's kind of what I'm leaning toward. I'm running Hunter for a new group, so an Idigam might be way out of the wheelhouse, but it could be a powerful ghost or death-spirit. Do you think it would make sense for there to be a Wound in the area's Shadow, or is that irrelevant to a Hunter game?

Not necessarily, but it'd definitely be an area that attracts death spirits, and somewhere where they can cross over much more readily.

It might also be worth exploring why the phenomenon is coming to attention only now. Did someone disturb the remains? Perhaps by burying something there (the mentioned "angel"?), something the spirit could feast on and grow strong enough to assert itself. So if we're thinking Death and Injustice, then you even have a murder to follow up on. Maybe even a ritual performed by a witch that intends to bind the nourished spirit to her will.

>>50898829
>poorfag excuses

>>50897363
>Abloobloo culture war.
I hate this phrase and think it's stupid. Everything is part of the culture war, if a "culture war" exists.

>>50897377
Beast is what happens when Vampire fucks Changeling and the baby is raised by its deadbeat uncle Geist in Mage's Astral Realms.
It's also a sign that there's not much more ground to cover for CofD. I mean, Geist already required them to just make up something new for them to have something playable with the ghost side, while Demon went COMPLETELY different from what was expected. As much as it doesn't interest me, Mummy was probably the last "pure" gameline, with a reimagining of a Universal Pictures monster. And even though it retreads old ground ("oh, you mean there was a secret pre-historical civilization that erased itself from history? How novel." not to mention the whole immortality thing, and fog of ages) it was a take on Mummies that's similar to the way Forsaken and originally Apocalypse reworked Werewolves.

There aren't many pure game ideas left and don't fucking say "Aliens!" Demon, Beast, Deviant, and whatever comes next are having to kitbash ideas together or go outside the wheelhouse.

>>50897422
I recommend you figure out what you want the tree to do, then make up mechanics to do it. You're running Hunter. You don't need to--and shouldn't--make everything fit perfectly neatly.

If you want to tell a Spirit story, a Spirit works. If you want to tell a Ghost story, a Ghost works. The actual thing that causes the tree to be evil only matters for how you want the Hunters to stop it. Will they need to set right what once went wrong and appease the tree? Will they need to restore order and give a proper burial to whatever is there? Will they really just need to wait it out and minimize the damage the tree is doing? Or can they just burn the tree down?

>>50901739
>>Abloobloo culture war.
what

>I hate this phrase and think it's stupid.
If you've got a better word for it, I'm all ears.

>Everything is part of the culture war, if a "culture war" exists.
Sure, but not everything is a screating fanatic clumsily plowing a VBIED into their own asshole by mistake either.

I'm going to be running a Werewolf the Forsaken 2e game soon. I've always found the whole "accepting of ancient dogmas" Forsaken vs Pure stuff to be my least favorite part of the game. Especially the hypocrisy of the Pure.

I think in my game 1800s and 1900s industrialization will have dealt a large blow to both the Pure and Forsaken. Furthermore, the Pure alliance against the Forsaken will be even more loose than it already is. Lots more infighting among the Pure. The Pure and Forsaken will be more like religions which are on the decline. Maybe population #s like:

60% Pure (of which 30-40% is Fire-Touched)
20% Forsaken
20% Ghost Wolf

How do you guys run it?

Hi, /cofd/&/wodg/, I recently started getting back into role playing. I have a copy of the new version or world of darkness and I'm between buying the God Machine Chronicles and the new Chronicles of Darkness books.

Can you tell me if there's anything one has that the other does not? I've heard that CofD has all the content that CoftGM has in addition to being a stand alone core rule book. Is this accurate?

Thanks!

>>50902896
Buy the Chronicles of Darkness book, it's 2e
God Machine Chronicles is basically 1.5e

>>50901739

What's wrong with aliens?

>>50901739
>and don't fucking say "Aliens!"
Why? That could be quite good.

>>50902930
Right, that's what I'd heard but I'm wondering if there's anything that CofD doesn't have that CotGM does.

>>50903275
Not really.

>>50902942
It would be radically different in tone.
Every other gameline is constituted of individuals who are, used to be, want to be, or have to (or just do) pretend to be humans.

Introduce the Quanthrom People from Jacktraphron VI, and you get a group of PCs who are so radically different from that human baseline, that it's a massive tonal shift. It just wouldn't mesh.

Also there's been no indication of actual aliens bar some stuff in Hunter, and even then that's subtle as fuck. Plus those Aliens would likely be stuck on earth, which kinda renders pointless the entire fact that they're aliens.

Also they wouldn't be supernatural, which bar Deviant, seems to be the single factor which unites every other part of CofD. I mean, even Angels deal with a mystic science.

>>50902942
>>50903137
I would say because it doesn't fit the tone or setting that they want, but then again they made angels into robots. Still, I have no doubt that "aliens exist" is one of those things that they want to avoid. I wouldn't be surprised if every year "Alien: The Invasion" is pitched and rejected. Plus, everything >>50903471 says, though I'd say there have been a lot of "wink-wink, nudge-nudge, aliens, ayyy?" references. Stuff like the True Fae being the source of alien abductions.

>>50903471
Deviant is also supernatural. It's just that much like Promethean it's a very supernatural science.

>>50902791
Accepting of ancient dogma in what way? Honestly, I think that a game where the players aren't Forsaken isn't that great. Religion is also unlikely to decline for a group of people for whom Gods and demons actually exist. The Forsaken are also pretty adept at moving into modern times, especially as they're presented in 2e. And especially the Iron Masters.

I think that looking at the Forsaken as a religion is wrong. I do, however, think that the Pure are religious, but at the same time religion hasn't exactly gone away.

>>50903275
>>50903388
More in-depth rules that don't require you to cross-reference or remember ones from 1e, new rules for chases and crafting items, as well as a few more Merits. Some monster creation rules, which are great.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3AEBnH1kAM

>>50903471
Actually, I devised an idea that would fit quite well. The aliens do not, for the most part, have their own bodies; they exist as semi-organic computer-based intelligences that walk around on Earth by reconstituting human corpses. I have more details if you're interested.

>>50903471
Expand on that shitty Cherion Group reveal. An alien game could be about refugees from a dying universe who are trying to carve a place for themselves in a world not their own. Maybe have Earth be slightly toxic to them so they have to find ways to manage their health and create spaces they can exist in safely.

>>50903863
Demons as interdimensional aliens would be interesting.

>>50903899
... But that's exactly what they are.
The reason they mesh with the universe is because they've got to pretend to be human, and their abilities while decidedly terrestrial are still mystical.

>>50903524
>>More in-depth rules that don't require you to cross-reference or remember ones from 1e, new rules for chases and crafting items, as well as a few more Merits. Some monster creation rules, which are great.

Sorry, do you mean that the above content is in CotGM but not CoD?

>>50904194
No, that's in the CofD corebook.

>>50903710
>>50903863
>>50903899
Combining these, have aliens abandon their true form in the process that transports them to our dimension, turning them into a protoplasmic goo. This goo seeks out and merges with corpses to take on the identity of the deceased. Stronger aliens can take people over from the inside out.

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So I managed to convince my GM to let me play a hunter with a Stand. What should I pick for my Stand power and how do you think this will go?

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>>50904537
>Shitty Animu Powaaaaaa!

5 dots in Kill Yourself?

>>50904537

>Not just being a sin-eater in a hunter cell

C'mon bro.

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>>50904537

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>>50905288

Don´t know if I can ask this here, but what isthe current state of Scion 2E?

>>50905440

You can always check the Kickstarter page,y'know.

They're still working on it. We got a preview of the Aztec gods a few weeks back.

>>50904704
And the good Lord cursed Anon to become a butthurt pillar of salt, and lo, he began posting to /tg/

>>50867526
Whats in all of the links?

>>50906321
your mom in a bikini you sick Oedipus complex

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>>50906321
Aspel's Magical Realm of Darkness. A homebrew setting featuring hypersexualised Changeling children, futanari catgirl Daeva bloodlines and a Hunter Vigil based on literal fangirls. Players vie with each other to collect Obtuse points, in order to achieve a state of Deliberate Obtuse-ness. The text has large numbers of sidebars Mansplaining the reader about how everything they know about being gay, disabled or trans is wrong, ESPECIALLY if the reader themselves happens to be gay, disabled or trans.

Some other great bastard compiled this music list; I repost it, in xir honour.

* La Petite Mort, the industrial/dance club:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59MA0vIOC44

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfK_kwNMjTg

https://youtu.be/CgBpc6fKcLA

https://youtu.be/iGUz9x2E9sU

https://youtu.be/q_hwqbhdQLI

* The Elysium at Raines Manor:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wk378T9pb3c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVY91ffIV8U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtydebLyFyE

General OOC Ambiance/Mood Setting
https://youtu.be/ZrGmuInMc0o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydJ_NiXy7zs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unJ_1nVGOqk

https://youtu.be/7kE7I7wjRj4

https://youtu.be/ktOHCVni1HI

https://youtu.be/GSbtDr4JFSo

https://youtu.be/bwGLQ76XK5w

https://youtu.be/nP-scQN4rk8

Justin Achilli: "At long last, the Grand Masquerade Succubus Club playlist (or as close to it as I can remember; songs may be missing).
VNV Nation, "Chrome"
The Smiths, "How Soon Is Now?"
Peter Murphy, "Cuts You Up"
Gary Numan, "Cars (Ultimix)"
Kite, "Ways to Dance"
Dead or Alive, "You Spin Me Round"
Destroid, "Lucretia My Reflection"
VNV Nation, "Generator"
Wolfsheim, "Once In a Lifetime (Club Mix)"
Seabound, "Hooked"
Suicide Commando, "The Pain that You Like"
Rotersand, "The Chase"
Assemblage 23, "The Noise Inside My Head (Sonik Foundry Remix)"
Parallox, "Goodbye Horses"
Rhesus Factor, "Conducator Al Statului (Remix)"
Skinny Puppy, "Pro-Test"
David Guetta vs. Bowie, "Just for One Day (Heroes Radio Edit)"
Aesthetische, "Here Today (Club Shot Mix)"
Florence + the Machine, "Shake it Out (Benny Benassi Remix)"
Lana Del Rey, "Summertime Sadness (Cedric Gervais Mix)"
Metallica, "Enter Sandman (Dirty Funker Vocal Mix)"
Propulsion, "Evil"
S.I.T.D. "Dunkelziffer (Tactical Sekt Remix)"
Sons of Magdalene, "Hold On Hold Still for a Second"
Godhead, "Bela Lugosi's Dead"
Depeche Mode, "Flexible"
Queen f/ David Bowie, "Under Pressure""

>>50904537
Idea: your stand is a manifestation of the pain of losing people close to you. You have to fight the urge to let your loved ones get killed so you can become stronger. Idk how it would work mechanically.

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https://www.youtube.com/user/TheOnyxPath/playlists

hit "show more" at the bottom to see playlists compiled by the writers and designers.

This went live 12 hours ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZhHhWH_cSQ

I would totally give Martin Ericsson a gobby. Not even joking. I'd give him a fucking hummer. Guys with accents, man, what can you do.

>>50904537
Just re-purpose motherfucking Telekinesis.

>>50907000
I forgot I turned my sound down, and with no sound that first few seconds looks like a Kink.com clip.

Also, that's not Ericsson's voice.

>>50906607
>>50906697
Should have known

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>>50908185
Yeah, but he's shown in the clip cutting a restrained mortal's chest with a blade, and his eyes look oh-so-blue....

>>50907000
Disclaimer: Didn't watch that video, just talking about past experiences.

Ericsson has a fucking atrocious accent. I literally can't listen to presentations he give in English. His accent is simply too disruptive.

>>50867526
It isn't illegal to download many files at once from The pastebin right?

>>50909491
It's technically illegal no matter how many you download.

I've heard that there was some kind of legend in Eastern Europe where there was a squad of werewolves someday who were loyal to Orthodox Church. They called themselves the hounds of God or something like that.
Unfortunately I couldn't find any information regardless this on the internet.
Does anyone knows what I am talking about.
It really got me curious.

>>50909772
I literally highlighted "hounds of God" and then did search Google for "hounds of God".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiess_of_Kaltenbrun

I actually made a Wolfblooded Proximus Dynasty based on this. They were Spirit/Life/Prime and their Paradox Condition was going into Kuruth as Dalu.

>>50909491
"To steal a book is an elegant offense" --- Ancient Chinese Proverb

Is it possible to run Mage Aw game with a whimsical Ghibliesque tone while still keeping in line with the themes?

>>50909639
Is it possible for me to get in trouble?

>>50909985
How old are you, or new to the internet are you, that you're asking that question?

Random sourcebook quote time;

Clanbook Giovanni Revised, page 26;

>...shit-eaters, rapists, drug-fiends, pedophiles, whack-job religious cultists, fags, dykes, horsefuckers, fetishists, murderers and deviants of all fucking stripes... the necromancers thought it was fun to stick their dick in corpses or cock-ride dead men, which of course angered the spiriti that used to reside in those bodies, making them easier to compel.

full-assrape stiffness, baby

>>50909985
Generally it won't matter if you're just doing direct downloads, but if you're really worried try Peerblock or something.

>>50909985
The chances of you getting caught are remote. Even in jurisdictions where piracy is frowned upon, the crime often pertains to the downloading itself rather than simply having the file. Add to this the fact that White Wolf are more interested in suing a large scale media company that they can make serious bank from (calling it now, watch them try to sue Hemlock Grove creators) and the fact that almost no-one does anything about .PDF piracy that isn't a technical manual, as well as the fact that such things are a civil infringement rather than a criminal one, and I would say you are safe, indeed, safer than if you used bit-torrent to obtain them.

>>50909955
Sure.
You'd have to run it as a primarily Astral game however.
Fucking around in the Temenos.

>>50910028
Thanks that makes me feel better.

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When your cabalmate is a qt 3.16 Thyrsus whose nimbus is plants growing out her body.

>>50909995
Blood and Smoke, page 14:

>Priest and priestesses practiced their love arts for coin--communion of the cunt and the cock.

I truly think that B&S deserves its own "God help us all"-style collage.

Vampire the Requiem is designed to be magical realmy right?

If a player eanted to play a disabled character would you give them something extra?

>>50910190

The Daeva play up the whole whore thing in their stuff but overall I dont think so.

>>50910190
Extremely so, or at least it makes it very easy to be. What way in particular were you thinking of?

>>50910207
As in a persistent condition that generates beats when it inconveniences them in a drama-creating way? Yes.

Character creation resources? No fucking way.

>>50910342
>As in a persistent condition that generates beats when it inconveniences them in a drama-creating way? Yes.
Wow that's just perpetuating ableist stereotypes you fucking racist fascist pig

>>50910190
Not really. I always thought it was a game being about the undead mafia.

>>50910409
Funny how they designed that part of the book to do exactly the opposite, so people could potentially play the handycapable, and not feel disabilities are worth a certain number of "points". Instead relating to how they actually inconvenience the character in play.

Unless of course you're just talking shit, in which case, you're really funny, and you should certainly pursue that career in comedy.

>>50910467
The mafia isn't exactly sex-free.

>>50910554
I don't think it's not a magical realm if it's not directly related to a fetish.

>>50910225
Well, durh. They're Rose's pet Clan.

>>50910629
This explains why they're the worst clan.

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>>50910207
Totally. OWoD usually gave additional points for having a serious disability, the only exception being Metis from Apocalypse. People make a huge fuss about it being "able-ist" now at Onyx Path, but realistically a character who is, say, paraplegic is going to be limited under certain circumstances in ways the other characters aren't, and so they need something to balance that. The game isn't supposed to be a perfect simulation of real life, it's about vampires and faeries for fuck's sake, if it were realistic then there would be separated Strength tables by gender and other simulationist bullshit.
>(You face off against the Brujah Beat-boy Posse. Roll Dex + Athletics, do you have Breakdance as a specialisation?)

>>50910482
>so people could potentially play the handycapable, and not feel disabilities are worth a certain number of "points".

Who are these mythical "people", amongst White Wolf fans, that needed lecturing about the "right way" to play a handicap? Who are these people, that took a character creation system and used it to justify real-life judgement calls? Where are all these players who needed a better understanding of how the disability "actually inconvenienced" - I like that, 'inconvenienced', like a lifetime of Cerebral Palsy is somehow on par with the paper boy throwing your newspaper onto the roof - their players, ON TOP OF both being immediately and constantly conscious of their character's disability AND the ST saying "pal, you can't do that"?

>>50910179
That line is really not as bad as people act.
>>50910190
>>50910225
>>50910293
The most popular vampire story in the western canon is literally about a foreigner coming to seduce the English women.

>>50910207
A Condition to generate narrative Beats, which is already baked into the game.

>>50910482
He's trying to take the piss out of a section he doesn't agree with because it's too "politically correct" to have a section talking about not being shitty about permanent disabilities.

>>50910629
No they're not?
>>50910749
No they're not and also fuck you. Daeva have the best Bane.

>>50910805
Forget about Ableism, that's just shitty fucking game design that encourages minmaxing. That it's ableist is just shit-icing.
The game isn't about being a perfect simulation, but it's also not about being nearsighted with a limp (that doesn't matter with your Celerity) so that you can become an amazing martial artist.

>>50910860
Everyone has their worldview influenced by the fiction they partake in. Anyone who says otherwise is statistically deluding themselves.

>>50910940
>IGNORE X

>>50910860

>amongst White Wolf fans

I assumed that part and parts like that are meant for general audiences and newcomers, rather than plugged in White Wolf acolytes. Every book is someone's first, or at least that's how a book ought to be seen. I mean the reality is that OPP's current model makes it so that only the fans like ourselves really read these things at the moment, but still.

I dunno. It's like three or four paragraphs of non-binding game advice and optional mechanics. As a very able-bodied and able-minded dude I don't think I can make much of a judgement call on whether or not its content helps or harms, but as something that takes up word count, it's far more relevant than the entire Tokyo chapter. It's not a bad chapter, I just don't think it should be in the violence book. Ideally it should be included in the inevitable catch-all book with every Tokyo setting in it to be released after Deviant's Tokyo setting.

Actually, did Demon get a Tokyo setting? I can't remember if it did since Seattle naturally got the spotlight on that one.

>>50910940
>That line is really not as bad as people act.
Well... for one thing, it's historically complete bullshit, and for another thing, it just sounds completely ridiculous.

>>50911029
Demon didn't get a Tokyo chapter. Also, apparently Tokyo was asked for in Hurt Locker. I don't care for it (it's not necessary in a supplement that isn't about that), but that doesn't mean I don't accept that other people can like it.

And that's the thing. Most of this thread doesn't seem to realize that they're not the only fans of the books. Or that most of them aren't even fans to begin with. They just seem to expect that OPP will listen to them and stop being progressive.

>>50911227
>I say, ol'd chap: that's no true Scotsman

Is there a limit of how many familiars you can get?

>>50911227
Most of the people here don't care that Onyx Path is progressive. They care that they're so confrontational and ham-handed about it.

>>50911491
>this
In fact: I prefer them to be progressive. I simply which they'd make different editorial choices, concerning their tactics.

>>50910940
Fuck off and die, Aspel.

>>50911563
This.

>>50911491
this, very much. People who need such warnings are just going to ignore them. People who don't need such warnings find them patronizing and annoying. When the books complain to the reader about the lack of space available, including huge sidebars that could easily have been shortened to one line in the body of the text to assuage the latte sipping dev's White Guilt seems Aspel-grade retarded.

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>>50903863
Oh you.

>>50911227

Huh, I guess I can just chalk that up to another bit of early edition weirdness. It's probably the most traditionally 1e in terms of corebook layout, too. I think it's also the only 2e corebook thus far with the old "entire short story before the whole book" thing.

>>50911255
That's not how the No True Scotsman fallacy works. That people in these threads hate progressive aspects is no secret. That Onyx Path doesn't see those complaints as valid is also pretty clear. Or are you trying to say I'm saying there are no REAL fans here? I'm sure there are. But there are also a ton of people who legitimately hate the company and the things they make, and pirate the games only to bitch about them.

>>50911491
>>50911545
>>50911599
And yet if Onyx Path actually felt they should get rid of the things this thread ̶g̶e̶t̶s̶ ̶a̶s̶s̶b̶l̶a̶s̶t̶e̶d̶ ̶o̶v̶e̶r̶ gets upset over, they would have done it already. Clearly they don't. And each year they seem to be doing better financially. You can chalk it up to white guilt all you want, but clearly "pandering" to a progressive base with "confrontational and ham-handed" sidebars is working out well.

>>50911779
Demon is also written like a 1e book in that it requires you to have the corebook. VtR2e has the core rules (mostly) in its book, while Demon has the GMC update

>>50911599

What about those of us glad they're there?

>>50911956
There's nothing wrong with you, so long as you're not an ass about the fact that current editorial authority resides with the people you support.

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>>50911816
>people buy the books for sidebars explaining proper use of non-gender specific pronouns

Oh, (you) little kidder

>>50912050
Certainly isn't seen as so big a negative that it ruins the company. I mean, here's one >>50911956, and I'm another. This may surprise you, but some people do like all that progressive stuff.

>>50911972
What about all the people being an ass because the current editorial authority doesn't reside with the people they support?

>>50912050

I can say with confidence that a decent chunk of the fanbase supports this company financially because its writers make a visible effort to represent queer identities in a positive manner. Do I need to have a book tell me that my fictional character can be trans? Fuck no, I'd like to see someone try and stop me. But that it's enough of a priority for them to do so anyway shows that they give a shit.

>>50912106
>What about all the people being an ass because the current editorial authority doesn't reside with the people they support?
they're allowed to complain. you're not allowed to complain when you have your way. you're also not allowed to complain about people complaining.

>>50907000

http://rollespilsfabrikken.dk/cotlarp/dd/cotlarpdd.pdf

Oh neat, they released the design document! Gonna have to give this a read.

Maybe next year I can participate, always wanted to play an Anarch or maybe a---

>510 dollar entry
>Costume rental
>Bus ticket
>Airfare to Berlin at the very least

Maybe I'll just...be satisfied with these design documents.

Is Hurt Locker in pastebin? Also can I have more than one Familiar as a Mage

>>50912122
As a gay male who plays WoD I find it trite and in a lot of places, condescending or 'alt' for the sake of it. It's unnecessary to pontificate about social issues and causes more problems than it solves.

>>50912139
It's also a period LARP, and I don't think the Anarchs as you'd be familiar with exist at this point? This is a LARP playing out the Convention of Thorns, which codified the Camarilla.

>>50912221
>As a gay male

Who cares, you're as much a part of the problem as the straights and cises

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2016/03/22/nus-tells-lgbt-societies-to-abolish-gay-mens-reps-because-they-dont-face-oppression/

>>50912221
I'm with you, buddy. This feels like Pink Face.

>>50912238

Ah, that's a good point. I'd still like to play, that trailer looks incredible. I just don't have, you know, at least $1870 dollars on hand just to spend.

>>50912361

Most people who go to these kinds of LARPs, that's the ONLY thing they do; they build their yearly budget and schedule around this type of thing. It's the same with US LARPers and conventions; I know people who build their vacation schedules and savings around traveling to all of the OWbN or MES conventions.

It's cool, but it's not worth that for me.

Can being barefoot be a Yantra for anything

>>50912392

I can get that. I never went to that kind of extreme but I know I was really onto saving up to go to anime conventions when I was younger. Man, I gotta stop getting into all these expensive (for me) hobbies.

>>50912137
If I had my way, they wouldn't be complaining. Checkmate, anon.

>>50912221
>>50912330
Too bad. Clearly other people don't feel the same way.

>>50912240
That's not even what the article says. It says that gay men don't face oppression *within the gay community*. Which, while I agree, encouraging people to drop gay representatives seems a bit much.

>>50912402
Probably, yes. Like being barefoot and pregnant for cooking spells.

>>50912524
>If I had my way, they wouldn't be complaining. Checkmate, anon.
and this is why
>IGNORE X
must be maintained

>>50912545
But if you had my way, I wouldn't be able to complain. You're doing a terrible job of ignoring me.

>>50912122
I'm glad they give a shit, but I wish they could be a little more concise. The Promethean sidebar bothered me, but mostly because I hate confrontational tones.

Sometimes I play sweet, lovely coservative girls in games made by liberals. I had a Mage who was engaged to her College sweetheart and saving sex for marraige and wants to be a dedicates housewife.

>>50912640
row row fight da powah! anon

>>50912524

>If I had my way

You'd rend and tear them apart because all that sucks dies?

https://youtu.be/fYeURUzAY88?t=232s

>>50912595
Do you mean the Mummy sidebar in Mortal Remains?
I never thought it was confrontational, but /wodg/ certainly does.

>>50912640
How deviant.

>>50912653
Is this a Werewolf song?

>>50912703

How have you been in this general this long and not have known about the W:tA song that Slipknot made? I got the link from it even. You might have even posted it a few years ago.

>>50912734
I hate Slipknot and WtA, so it certainly wasn't me who posted it.

>>50912760

Those don't exclude you from having posting it given the nature of the song, but either way, it's been in this thread more than once over the years so again, surprised you never even accidentally clicked on one once.

>>50903524

Re: Werewolf: You go through the First Change and realize or are even told hunting spirits (and other things) comes naturally. Then you're told that certain spirits are your gods, demigods, and demons (like Luna and the firstborn). But the Lunes and Pure firstborn are pretty crazy. You've already been told that Zeus (Father Wolf) has been killed in the past, so these things are killable; why pledge yourself to a Firstborn, who in the case of the Pure is crazy, or swear an oath, that in case of the Forsaken is in the name of Luna whose servants are crazy as well? I feel like modern-day wolves would be a lot more Tower of Babel-esque or at least come up with new ways of looking at the world.

I like that 2e made the focus more personal, adding things like Sacred Prey. Dare I say it, they didn't go far enough. Perhaps a 2e Tribes of the Moon type book can give the setting some more oomph.

With that in mind, as for modern times being a cause of decline for Pure/Forsaken, I think of this this way for how I might run it in my game: exponentially more humans and ideas leads to more spirits, which means Forsaken and Pure being a bit overwhelmed. It also means humans spread to the far corners of the world, where werewolves undergo the First Change and there's no Pure to brainwash them nor Forsaken to teach them. This in turn leads to a huge rise in Ghost Wolf numbers.

Honestly I might take it even further and go with Pendragon's homebrew version of Tribes/Pure where he makes it so the Pure don't exist and Tribes are more akin to Protectorates/Small Wolfy Nations. As he puts it here, https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sqltG7X-C_MdEe00PtVOZmki8V_K1M1FpQtLwTvb2jg/edit# , "Werewolves are amply capable of antagonizing one another without needing to have a dedicated race of spirit Nazis. This does mean a lot more ‘infighting’ between Tribes..."

>>50912703
>Do you mean the Mummy sidebar in Mortal Remains?
Probably. Oh yeah, Promethean was the one that used nonstandard pronouns. The only problem I have with that is it's like reading a stroke, but that's more my problem than anything.

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>>50893199
>>50894746
Nah I have some major villains already planned. I don't want to mention the important ones since my players may be lurking, but for instance the head of the local cartels is a powerful vampire [middle-aged hispanic guy in a white suit called El Diablo los Santander to his enemies, and Nicolas by his subordinates] and the local head of the Technocracy, a man who is basically Agent K.

Been doing this since the 50s, uses life-extending tech to still look to be forty-something, calls everyone slick, refers to Mages as "renaissance-fair throwbacks" among other things but really only cracks down on Mage strongholds and Mages who use vulgar magick in public [which I decided for my campaign was the general terms of engagement of the Techies in general].

Basically quintessential reasonable authority figure as an antagonist. If he saw a punk orphan shooting lightning in a dark alley he'd tell him to "Cut it out unless you want to go to a little white room and stay there till you think you're driving Miss Daisy." rather then say, call in agents or worse.

He takes the same attitude towards spirits, especially angels, viewing them as "not supposed to be here" moreso then an active malign entity.

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So, should I be worried about how Changeling 2E might turn out, given the stuff David Hill's been saying?

>>50914991
Look we get it, you have some weird hatecrush of Hill, keep it to one thread, yeah

>>50867526
>IGNORE ASPEL
We put this up for a reason guys

>>50914991

Not really, the damage is done already so might as well get the 1st editions book when they get on sale.

>>50915020
But I like Changeling...

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As a Storyteller, have you ever put limits on what players can do with Chimerstry? It seems way too versatile and powerful for just one discipline.

>>50915064
>>50914991
The previews have been out for months mechanically its all there.

Notable changes
The hedge becoming more silent hill -ish.
The huntsman becoming a more focused character.
This X kith Y Seeming Z Court
The contracts becoming a flat cost instead of a discipline progression

We all know David loves his mages so as long has they don't bring them in it can't be that bad. And this is the same guy who hated the changeling arcadia being linked to mage arcadia. And since the hedge and changeling arcadia are cemented into the setting, I foresee a side bar explaining the difference, and keeping all the mages far away from splat.

I mean come on we might even get a proper Astral being splat

What are some fun things to do while I'm temporarily (hopefully) dead?

Mortal. I'm a "ghost", ie. myself just stuck in Twilight

>>50915519

Find a fake haunted house, make it into a real haunted house.

>>50915519
Hang out with Woodrow Wilson and talk about perfume.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6tBZ5Yc9-8

>>50915477
I think you may be mixing me and David Hill up.

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>>50915917
>I think you may be mixing me and David Hill up.

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>>50915917
Ah fair dues. my mistake. I'm used to the referring to his usertag, rather than his first name

>>50915917

Next thing you know, they're going to mistake you for the guy who develops Deviant or something.

>>50915519
Why "temporarily"? Anyway:
-Spy on your enemies and subtly sabotage their work;
-Explore "haunted" locations;
-Start a urban legend.

>>50916108
>Deviant

Isn't that the game they announced then dropped when they ran out of money?

>>50916122
>Why "temporarily"? Anyway:

We know a guy who claims he can raise the dead. I'm optimistic.

>>50916126

No, you're thinking of that Frutang game they always talk about on the OPP forums.

>>50916126
>bait

>>50916161
Are you sure? They talked a lot about Deviant then never talked about it again

>>50916140
You know that there's a catch even in the best situations right? How long has your character been dead? Was he a hunter?

>>50916177

Pretty sure! It's why Frutang is a meme over there, it's like their version of Ghost Slide.

>>50916186
About 42 hours so far, fucking paving stone through the windscreen. Character wasn't a Hunter, but he did browse >>>/x/ a lot

>>50916233
Get a vampire to embrace your corpse, otherwise you're just dead kid

>>50916280
>Get a vampire to embrace your corpse

How does that help me? Hidden cost or not, guy who can resurrect me is surely the best bet.

I mean, yeah my GM just read Demon so "guy" is probably an Angel, but that's none of my business

>>50916233
I hope for your sake it's an AKD guy with a worm pipe or a genuine miracle worker. You're royally screwed otherwise. Good luck!

>>50916308

>Resurrected by an Angel

I hope you like becoming a God-Machine Cultist, or a Stigmatic if you luck out hard.

>>50916308
>GM fiat

welp good luck with being an automaton to the machine.

At least with a vamp you theatrically have self autonomy

>>50916442
Let's try to be more optimistic. He could also become a biker who punches demons to death!

>>50906874
Oh, my playlist. How nice.

I should put another one together.

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>>50916454
>At least with a vamp you theatrically have self autonomy
>theatrically

Vampire Idol is not enough

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>>50916233

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>>50916556
WoD death is an inconvenience at most

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>>50916545
What's wrong with Koren soap operas about vampires and show business?

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>>50916576
Who you going to call?

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>>50916598
Korea doesn't exist in the World of Darkness. It's too broken.

>>50916614

But then how do you explain that one k-pop group in Mage 2e?

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>>50916608
>Who you going to call?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Z0IXDaJ1Tc

>>50916632
I blame Johnny Deppp

>>50916645

Casper was a weird movie. Didn't it have a scene making fun of the flesh ripping scene from Poltergeist where the punchline is that the Cryptkeeper shows up?

>>50916717
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCcpOk5ni80

This was back when Mel Gibson made uncredited cameos

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>tfw the Demons are closing in
>tfw you did your job
>tfw their hubris will be their downfall

TY#BG-M (:-D)

>>50916828
>FIGHT THE MACHINE!
>OMG We're all dying
aren't angel like at least rank 6 spirits or something?

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>>50916902
Nah, low ran angels exist

Tree-kun isn't some godlike super-saiyan

>>50916645
>no backup
what a scrub hunter

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>>50916614
>Korea doesn't exist
The rest is redundant

>>50915917
>DaveB
>DavidH

I thought it was a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde sort of relationship.

>>50913641
Even then, those Ghost Wolves would be visited by Lunes.

>>50916614
It's just completely obscured by Hill's raging japan boner.

So in either VtM or VtR killing your sire without committing diablerie isnt breaking a tradition is it?

>>50920353
With Requiem's paring down of the Traditions, no. In Masquerade... killing another Kindred is a violation of the Sixth Tradition unless they tried to kill you first, in which case they were the ones to violate it and may be slain with impunity.

>>50913641
>You go through the First Change and realize or are even told hunting spirits (and other things) comes naturally.
you feel that
it's part of you, you don't need to be told
>Then you're told that certain spirits are your gods, demigods, and demons (like Luna and the firstborn).
they are gods
>But the Lunes and Pure firstborn are pretty crazy.
they're not fishmalks, they're sane within what they do
>You've already been told that Zeus (Father Wolf) has been killed in the past, so these things are killable; why pledge yourself to a Firstborn, who in the case of the Pure is crazy, or swear an oath, that in case of the Forsaken is in the name of Luna whose servants are crazy as well?
cuz otherwise you have no guidance
> I feel like modern-day wolves would be a lot more Tower of Babel-esque or at least come up with new ways of looking at the world.
there's bunch of ghostwolf lodges
>>50902791
>I think in my game 1800s and 1900s industrialization will have dealt a large blow to both the Pure and Forsaken. Furthermore, the Pure alliance against the Forsaken will be even more loose than it already is. Lots more infighting among the Pure. The Pure and Forsaken will be more like religions which are on the decline. Maybe population #s like:
why would industrialization matter?

How do you dramatically fail a contested roll?

>>50921346
fail
take dramatic failure

>>50921545

>>50912524
Fuck off and die, Aspel. You are a cancer, an HIV cell that chokes out all decent conversation in this thread. If you died choking on your own feces right now the world would be a better place. When you aren't here we have productive conversations, your ban proved this.

>>50916161
>Frutang gang aint nothin to fuck with

>>50922718
I don't think you're capable of having a productive conversation at all.