/cofd/&/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness General

>>50838284
>Not dealing with defense can make up for lack of Vigor.
I dunno. There are plenty of critters who can get defence against firearms.

If you want to be certain about damage, grappling + Vigor is the way to go.

Got the White Wolf newsletter. It promotes the upcoming Berlin LARP and an "Earplay" audio game and no tabletop stuff whatsoever despite OPP releasing stuff all the time so welp

>>50838744
Cut Berlin some slack man, they're going through a rough patch right now

>>50838744
Yeah, but OPP is supposed to do CofD stuff, so it'd be unfitting for WW to drive attention to them.

>>50838744
White Wolf is not Onyx Path. They're not going to talk about the things that Onyx Path is doing.

Someone wanna help me understand the "Spirit World"?

I've read the rules in Mage, so I understand how it all works mechanically. But from a flavor perspective, I'm not sure how to run it. How to describe it.

Does EVERYTHING (barring people, obviously) have a spirit? And what about spirits of intangible things—emotions, events, etc.—how common are they? Are they just hanging around everywhere? What do they look like? Do most spirits (whether of objects or concepts) usually stay on their side of the Gauntlet, or would you see a bunch of them just by glancing into Twilight? If not, which spirits DO end up in Twilight?

If there's a book that does a good job answering these questions, I'd be happy just to be pointed in the right direction. But I welcome any discussion about this stuff, too.

>>50838883
Forsaken 2e explains well the spirit ecology. There's also Book of Spirits and Predators, althought they are 1e

>>50838883
>Does EVERYTHING (barring people, obviously) have a spirit?
Yes. Most of the time that spirit is dormant though. In those cases, these just cause.. I don't know how to put it.. Props, scenery, and stuff like that.
>And what about spirits of intangible things—emotions, events, etc.—how common are they?
I don't think we got any numbers. As dense as you want them.
>Are they just hanging around everywhere?
Mostly they congregate near sources of Essence (which is places where their kind of Thing happen.)
>What do they look like?
They can seriously look like anything even remotely fitting. Ask for some general spirit concepts and I'll try to give you some creative ideas.
Do most spirits (whether of objects or concepts) usually stay on their side of the Gauntlet, or would you see a bunch of them just by glancing into Twilight?
Normally Spirits want to escape the shadow. The Gauntlet makes it harder to feed off of concepts in the material world (which is what generates Essence). They also do it to escape stronger spirits who'd eat them. That this isn't done more, is because Werewolves have a sacred duty to make sure spirits don't do this kind of thing. And they tend to show that very viscerally.
> If not, which spirits DO end up in Twilight?
Brave, desperate and stupid ones.

>If there's a book that does a good job answering these questions, I'd be happy just to be pointed in the right direction.
Yes. Several. Werewolf deals with it extensively, so their core book has a bit of a dig deeper into what spirits do and so on. There are also a few others: Book of Spirits (nWoD 1e), Predators (W:tF 1e), and Lore of the Forsaken (W:tF 1e). All expand spirit stuff.

>>50838950
>>50838979
Awesome. Thank you! Definitely gonna check out those books.

A couple other questions, if you're up for them:

So, if you actually travel into the Shadow, is the scenery... MADE of spirits? Like, say I'm standing in my living room and cast a spell to step across the Gauntlet; would my Shadow-living room be just a floor spirit, and a couch spirit, and TV spirit, etc.? Is there actual, "physical" terrain in the Shadow? Or if I stepped outside would I be walking on a ground spirit or a grass spirit or something?

Another hypothetical. This one actually came up in my game last night, which is why I'm asking some of this stuff. The Thyrsus player was hanging out in a florist's shop, and just on a whim cast Exorcist's Eye, which lets you perceive spirits "in the physical world" (slumbering in objects, hanging out in Twilight, or possessing people). I was kind of caught off guard. What would you have described them seeing in a situation like this? What kind of non-object spirits would be hanging around a flower shop? What would THEY look like? And would any of them even be visible to a spell that didn't directly peer across the Gauntlet, or would he just see the slumbering spirits of the objects?

>>50839153
>So, if you actually travel into the Shadow, is the scenery... MADE of spirits? Like, say I'm standing in my living room and cast a spell to step across the Gauntlet; would my Shadow-living room be just a floor spirit, and a couch spirit, and TV spirit, etc.? Is there actual, "physical" terrain in the Shadow? Or if I stepped outside would I be walking on a ground spirit or a grass spirit or something?

Yes. And no.
As I said, most "prop" spirits are dormant. Most trees you see are just trees. They ARE spirits, but they sleep.
The living room, couch, floor et cetera spirits are probably just "organs" in the big house spirit. Which may or may not be aware.

The ground is, probably, made from Gaia, the earth herself. Who is thankfully dormant.

>>50839153
As to the second half of your post...

In a Florist's shop, you'd get spirits of flowers, of course. Of love and lust. Probably a smidgeon of greed. Beauty, too, of course.

On this side of the Gauntlet, there wouldn't be that many spirits. Only the bravest, dumbest, or most desperate ones.

An abundance of spirits in the material indicates that the area isn't watched by Werewolves, or other groups of individuals who want to keep their influence to a minimum. (Like most Spirit-mages.)

>>50839153
The Shadow is a spooky reflection of the world. In effect the landscape and scenery is "the world's" spirit. It's then populated by other spirits like our world is populated by stuff. And occasionally some terrified jackass who walked down the wrong alley and ended up their accidentally.

>Another hypothetical.
Spirits in Twilight are on THIS side of the Gauntlet, so he could have seen them.

If the florist is successful, he might have seen bees with watering cans instead of stingers (since they don't have to fight for essence), if it's a front for a brothel, then the cashier might have tentacles around his throat from a spirit of lust that's evolved by now feeding on his guilt at how his boss keeps the whores in line.

Things give off 1 essence/day just by existing, which is enough for a spirit not being threatened to survive on, so there might be random spirits all over the place just tagging along to people/things and hiding from the Border Police (werewolves). But older, ore powerful spirits act to create ore essence that resonates with them, so if he cast Exorcist's Eye at the florist and saw an eyeball with wings, it might be a story hook because that's a spirit of voyeurism but because it appeared to be crying petals that means someone is magically spying on the shop and that spirit has adapted to feed on that essence resonance.

>>50839517
>Things give off 1 essence/day just by existing, which is enough for a spirit not being threatened to survive on

I'm pretty sure they changed that.
Now it's a Power + Finesse - Gauntlet (if on the Shadow Side) roll, and the spirit gets Essence equal to the amount of successes.
They can do this roll once per day.

>>50839546
I think the other anon is referring to natural essence bleed.

>>50840051
I wasn't, I made a mistake

>>50839471
>>50839512
>>50839517
Thanks guys. Appreciate the responses. This is definitely a lot of help.

>>50839153
Remember rank 0 to 2 spirits are more like objects or animals than sapient beings. Just in case your party is worried about walking over the grass spirit in his yard.

There is still a benefit for 'honoring' the low rank spirits though.

>>50840139
Spirit is a super-powerful arcana once you get the hang of it.

>>50840139
No problem. I just love contributing to some actual discussion here.

If you have more questions, just ask.

>>50840162
Speaking of this, I guess: do low-ranking spirits of objects actually DO stuff? Like, if you step into the Shadow, you might find a dog spirit running around doing dog things—but what about a doghouse spirit? Does it just sit there? Can it get up and move around? Will it talk to you?

>>50840349
Rank 1 spirits are mostly passive, they seek essence sources and cling to them as long as they can. Rank 2 spirits are more sapient, they can think and act on those thoughts.

A Rank 2 doghouse spirit might go around wounding dogs so they stay in their houses instead of going for walkies, or it might instill rage in cats so their owners trade them for dogs and need to get a doghouse which it can then claim.

>>50838874
They mentioned Earplay, a license holder. They seem to pretty much pretend license holder OPP doesn't exist even though it produces multiple WoD lines.

>>50840349
Rank 1 and to a lesser extant 2 do stuff but not beyond their nature or their territory of resonance.

So your dog spirit is probably a Rank 1 that wanders around following the paths used by dogs in the material world.

The doghouse that he lives in is a sleeping spirit mote of rank 0. It's little more than an object or food for higher spirits. Now if something influential happens to that doghouse in the material realm (Maybe the dog that lives there rescues a baby) it can create a resonant condition like heroism that can awaken the spirit of the doghouse.

>>50840448
I wouldn't necessarily call rank 2s sapient. They definitely have more agency than rank 1s. It's like comparing a fox to a lobster. The fox is certainly more clever but it's not really a rational being like a person.

>>50840555
Rank 3 is supposed to be a powerful spirit, planning and schemeing and controllling lesser spirits.

Rank 1 is the equivalent to an animal. Rank 2 are people, Rank 3 are supernaturals.

https://www.sendspace.com/file/ix0730
(reposting from least thread, thank you Anon)

Jagged and saw-toothed weapons are generally 9 again, yes?

>>50835409
So far, anyone one we have that on was either actively trying to kill us or part of a mindless horde of murder constructs. I'd say they got off easy getting Quarantined for a few minutes compared to killed off.

Ok. Who was behind the statting of the swords in Hurt Locker?

I really hope signs of sorcery comes out soon. People in my game have read the preview and are already trying to craft magic suits of armor.

>>50841226

Define "soon."

If you mean real world "soon," don't hold you breath.

If you mean "soon" for OPP/WW, such as by GenCon 2017, that remains a slight possibility.

Dave needs to complete "development, " then it still needs art, layout, editing and approval.

>>50841226
>>50841384
I'm honestly not willing to hope it'll be out in 2017.

>>50841472
>'m honestly not willing to hope it'll be out in 2017.

All we have is hope.

Keep hope alive!

#whereisthebookdaveb

Time is an illusion and the clock is a man made invention

>>50841899
Time isn't an illusion, it's a social construct

Unlike gender, which is a bioogical fact

>>50841899
>>50841965

I'm drowning in so much "temporal privilege."

>>50841899

Get out of here, Unknown Armies.

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>>50841899
>>50841965
>>50842036
>>50842053

Merlin who lives time bent is not impressed

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>>50842173

Opinion on cancer cells in HtV? Any way to make them work? Better to avoid them like the plague?

>>50838883
>Does EVERYTHING (barring people, obviously) have a spirit?
yes
>And what about spirits of intangible things—emotions, events, etc.—how common are they?
as common as the intangible things
>Are they just hanging around everywhere?
if they don't keep getting essence they get ate or go dormant and get ate
>What do they look like?
could look like anything
>Do most spirits (whether of objects or concepts) usually stay on their side of the Gauntlet, or would you see a bunch of them just by glancing into Twilight?
most stay spiritside
>If not, which spirits DO end up in Twilight?
powerfulspirits who want more
>If there's a book that does a good job answering these questions, I'd be happy just to be pointed in the right direction. But I welcome any discussion about this stuff, too.
werewolf 2e core
book of spirits
most werewolf books
predators has lots of spirits

>>50839153
>So, if you actually travel into the Shadow, is the scenery... MADE of spirits? Like, say I'm standing in my living room and cast a spell to step across the Gauntlet; would my Shadow-living room be just a floor spirit, and a couch spirit, and TV spirit, etc.?
yes, but dormant
> Is there actual, "physical" terrain in the Shadow? Or if I stepped outside would I be walking on a ground spirit or a grass spirit or something?
ground spirit mostly looks like gruond
>The Thyrsus player was hanging out in a florist's shop, and just on a whim cast Exorcist's Eye, which lets you perceive spirits "in the physical world" (slumbering in objects, hanging out in Twilight, or possessing people). I was kind of caught off guard. What would you have described them seeing in a situation like this? What kind of non-object spirits would be hanging around a flower shop? What would THEY look like? And would any of them even be visible to a spell that didn't directly peer across the Gauntlet, or would he just see the slumbering spirits of the objects?
business spirit
money
drug spirit from when worker takes a pot break
they wouldn't be in physical world though most would just be in shadow

To the anon who shares the Tome of Secrets pdf in the last thread, thank you very much!

>>50838744
Yeah I'm considering of going to the Berlin meetup (it's not just LARP, it's basically a convention + LARP if you want to pay extra) but unfortunately I don't have that many friends who would be interested and out of those who do, none of them know if they can make it in May since it's quite far away. The price of admission is also a factor - 150 eur for the entrance ticket, not counting LARPs

>>50842332

Not a terrible idea, but it might be better to replicate powers using Dread Powers or the Endowment style if you can.

>>50842332
They can and do "work" for how long thou is up to the fate of drama.

Like everything cod, Hunter cells are on a case by case basics. Cancer cells have extra baggage that a clean cell wouldn't. There's really no easy way to tell if the cancer cell is compromised in their vigil or not. And even clean cells can fight each other or lose their collective shit.

The Malleus Maleficarum has a ghoul behind the scenes. that had to have started some how.

Ex:
If a cell is convinced that a vampire is genuinely trying to help and pretty much still in their right minds (buffy spike angel) They might give themselves as blood dolls to gain a heavy hitter in harder fights. curbing the causality rate and success rate of their operations, but at What cost? and How long can the group trust their dark guardian? And how long till the asset slips its emotional bonds and just stops giving a shit anymore become just another monster with dirt on the cell?

Helsing Organization

tldr: yes but expect extra suspension and or hostility from folks in the know

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reminder that Forgotten is best threshold

>>50842716
> Not a terrible idea, but it might be better to replicate powers using Dread Powers or the Endowment style if you can.

It's not that we have a PC who is a monster, it's that our members have started taking up with monsters "allies" and this is creating some problems. As in, other hunter cells attacking us. I'm starting to wonder if it's a worthwhile tradeoff. On the one hand we now have two monsters that have been decently reliable allies, at least for now, one of them a werewolf. On the other hand, we have to fight other humans a lot more since other hunter cells have started gunning for us.

Also, the one hunter cell that we're still on friendly terms with now refers to us as the humper cell, and that's annoying as fuck. It was one time, damn it! And no actual sex occurred!

>>50842783
> And even clean cells can fight each other or lose their collective shit.
I guess if cell vs cell warfare is going to happen even if we stay clean, we may as well reap the benefits of having monster allies? Or is that really awful thinking?

I'm about to DM vampire the masquerade with newbie players, what's a good introduction scenario for them (as Camarilla) ?

>>50843873
This post lulz. Sounds like your St is doing it right. story time humper? No matter what you do you'll have conflict. Because everyone has a different ideals to the hunt, and different lines they'll cross. And different needs and wants. To some you'll be cooperators against them. and other just freaks. Choosing your fights will be important. And this is why hunters can be just as secretive as the monsters they hunt

>Or is that really awful thinking?
Yes not because it's immoral, but because it's sloppy. By all means pit monster against monster, thats just being tactical. remember to be mindful of your own vulnerabilities.

>>50844362
There's a few scenarios you could use:

- all are neonates who have just been released by their sires and now need to prove themselves as capable members of society. So the Prince gives them some sort of simple task. I went with people disappearing because this is a very easy to understand story and finding clues, talking to people etc shows newbies how the game works.

- they all wake up in some sort of small enclosed area and last thing they remember is the Embrace. They might not know they're vampires and this works best for a one-shot as they try to figure out what's going on and what they are

That's stuff off the top of my head, there's probably other easy hooks as well. As long as you don't dump a bunch of vampire politics on them and keep it nice and simple, the players will enjoy the game. Are they newbies to tabletop or vampire only?

>>50838883
>Someone wanna help me understand the "Spirit World"?
>I've read the rules in Mage, so I understand how it all works mechanically. But from a flavor perspective, I'm not sure how to run it. How to describe it.
Read the first edition corebook for werewolf, especially the appendix on the spirit world. It's the single best treatise on the Shadow/Hisil ever put out for nWoD.

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>>50838517
Daily reminder that these splats are not allowed in my stories for being shit and overpowered
>Sin eaters
>Beasts
>Primordials

>>50844598
Daily reminder that nobody cares about your games.

I see you've removed Mummies from the list, though.

>>50844598

Have you considered just playing Apocalypse? Werewolves are top tier solo fighters there.

>>50844643
Fuck you my stories and characters are top tier
>>50844646
>playing owod

>>50844701
>Fuck you my stories and characters are top tier
That doesn't mean anyone else cares.

There's a reason "let me tell you about my character" is a meme, and a negative one.

>>50844598
>>Beasts
>>Primordial

Beasts are so shit they needed to be listed twice.

>>50844386
> story time humper
Getting called that would be less annoying if one of us had actually gotten laid.

The second of our two main monster "allies" is a changeling woman who, as changelings are want to be, is ten kinds of crazy. We've be working with her mainly because her contracts are useful, but she has pretty blatantly been working to seduce one of the members of the cell. Eventually it got to the point where one night she called him up, said she had woken up in the middle of the night from awful nightmares and asked him to come over, calling in a favor we owed her from when she last helped us. Like a chump, he did just that without telling the rest of the cell. Didn't even have sex, she just used him as her own personal body pillow.

Afterward, he told the rest of the cell what had happened, and one of them ended up blabbing to the other cell. Somewhere along the line the fact that they didn't actually have sex got left out, so now the other cell thinks we've got members who are literally sleeping with monsters.

Why does Hurt Locker omit talking about Beasts in the 'Power Differentials' section?

>>50845381
Developed and written before that shitstain became a thing? Or they couldn't cut wordcount from the ableism section maybe.

>>50845381
Because those writers didn't support Beast.

>>50845364
top quality Anon

Changeling word play. Only Two mistakes there. Should have kept his mouth shut. Should have claimed it was undercover work, that didn't pan out. it's a classic femme fatale situation. Just a little gender bent. That how one of our hunters took down a sentimental vampire. We found out he likes red heads so we dyed the member's hair, placed a radio tracker in her purse. Followed back to the lair. Bang bomb done.

I'ld love to hear more mate. sounds like a rocken campaign

>>50844598
Sin Eaters and Beasts are the absolute shittiest splats ever created.

How do you guys create a feeling of horror and paranoia without making the game too 'edgy'.

I'm afraid my game is going to turn into 'the walking dead' I'll just be introducing characters and scenarios so people die horribly and it's just going to get tedious.

Ideally I want an atmosphere like 'the thing' or 'aliens'.

>>50845615
What actually is a sin-eater? I know they're sort of like werewolves half man half ghost. But like what are their powers like? They could transform into wooly mammoths at night for all I know.

>>50845381

Beast wasn't finished when the book went into production.

>>50845686
They can make anyone or anything commit suicide by just thinking about it.

>>50845604
> Only Two mistakes there. Should have kept his mouth shut. Should have claimed it was undercover work, that didn't pan out.

I'd argue that his mistake was going to a changeling's place in the dead of night, alone, without telling anyone. We certainly chewed him out for that, both IC and OOC. Hell, the changeling herself pointed out that he was taking an insane risk while she was cuddling him.

His response IC to us was to accuse another member of the cell of shagging the aforementioned werewolf, even though OOC the player knew that didn't happen. That also ended up getting blabbed to the other cell.

They probably think we're the most bumbling idiots in town. But at least they're content to laugh at us rather than trying to kill us like the other hunters in the city, so I guess that's something.

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>>50845851
> tfw no changeling waifu who just wants to cuddle
Why even live.

>>50846776
Monsters are for killing, not cuddling.

What is the use of Beast?
How does one use them to crossover the various splats?

>>50845686
Generally spooky ghost stuff.
They can see/talk to ghosts, move stuff around like in those poltergeist movies.

>>50847047
Here's a hint.
You don't.

When introduced to other splats, all Beast (the book, not specific character) does is go "dohohoho, you silly Xs, you REALLY think your cosmology is the right one? Oh my how rich, I bet you don't even know about the NIGHT MOTHER, do you? Don't worry, I'll tell you aaaaaall about how wrong you are as I inexplicably boost your powers with my own abilities."

>>50847136
Well you don't really have to follow the book to the letter when it comes to lore.

>>50847328

Yes, but the question was "What is the use of Beast [in crossovers]?"

And Beast, as it is, is fucking terrible for crossovers. If you're going to have to rewrite the crossover bits yourself anyway, then it's not correct to say that Beast is useful for that.

>>50847328
When it comes to a crossover however, if you're not doing it FOR the Lore, then what's the fucking point?

>>50847360
I used beasts as a spooky something that even vampires hate/fear because they don't understand them or their powers. Most people have an idea of the weaknesses of a werewolf or fae. When you introduce something only called 'Beasts' who seem to be in soul the very thing that makes vampires monsters, they're pretty lost on what to do.

Beast does suck though, why the fuck would they be buddy buddy with any splat that isn't a sin-eater or changeling is beyond me.

>>50847631
>because they don't understand them or their powers
... There are MUCH better reasons to hate and fear beasts than a lack of understanding, which sounds sympathetic.

I will be running my first Requiem game. Does this plot sounds interesting?

The players are gonna be in New england on boston, which is a city dominated by the invictus as the first state, the Lancea Sanctum and a alliance with the Carthian all because outside of the city there warring gangs of "Brides of Dracula" (from dance macabre) whom pop up some 50 years ago and sudenly got a constant influx of members.

The Brides secretly were a failed social experiment of the carthians (that function as fascist regime) that got out of control and were a minor threath until they raid a Wyrm nest and learned the devotion to mass embrace.

So the carthians dont want the rest to know they Brides were their fault, the ordo Dracul dont want the rest to know that their high numbers are their faul, the Lancea Sactum keeps his grip on the city because of the Crusade mentality and the invictus are just trying to keep the city from falling not knowing exactly why.

>>50845851
>>50846776
>>50846910

You smell the scent of pine and the brush of leafs against the wind as self claimed the wood elf pets and strokes your chest "You know hunter kun, this was really the stupidist romantic gesture you'd only see on TV soap operas" You feel the two twig arms wrap around your body as this nymph continues "I could whick you away and no on would ever find the body." The demised figure tucks her head into your shoulder and you feel dampness as it crys oh so sweetly into your flannel shirt "Just stay like this ok?"

All the damsel in distress bait

>>50844562
Any reason you recommend 1e over 2e?

>>50847631
Probably because Changelings are boring to interact with.

>>50847660
>The Brides secretly were a failed social experiment of the carthians (that function as fascist regime)
Why?
I've already talked about my views on using the Carthians as fascists, but even then, why the Brides? They're more like something out of Shadowrun: Dragonfall. Failed anarchism where instead of the sense of unity that the Kreuzbaser has, they're a disjointed rabble where strength is power, but there's no sense of organization. At least, that's my understanding of the Brides. I know them more from Count Fucking Dracula than from Danse Macabre. He seemed like a thug playing at being erudite.

Or, if you meant the Carthians as fascist regime, again, why? And also how, if they don't have the power? Actually, why are the Lance allied with the Carthians? Those Covenants have massive bad history together.

>>50847671
See, this is why you need to maintain a strict monster-killing policy. Otherwise, you open the door for idiots trying to romance the monsters.

>>50847807
Until you're in deep, at which point it's pretty fucking great.

I mean, until you can see past the Mask they're just highly insular, paranoid, mentally deranged weirdos.

>>50847830
>I've already talked about my views on using the Carthians as fascists

I dont know you and you havent in this thread so i dont know your views on fascist Carthians. I just think that running the Carthians as masquerade anarchs is something i wanna avoid.

As to why the brides, is because they arent organized but they are just too many of them.

>>50847830
>Or, if you meant the Carthians as fascist regime, again, why?

Yes, sorry i mean the carthians in the city are fascist regime. They are a cult of personality lead by a gangrel, he is kind of a warlord which has help him gather a following of carthians and they are ally with the local Lancea because they share not only the common enemy but both have a "zealot" mentanlity regarding the thread (though in the case of the carthians is because they want to kill them before the secret spills out).

>>50847647
There's a beast inside you. It wants you to destroy, feed, cause fear. It's not afraid of causing death and wants only to drown in the blood of innocents and enemies alike. It burns with need at all times, and when you find someone who won't be missed to soothe the beast, you find yourself suddenly repelled. The area goes dark, twisting into a pale reflection of another realm as what you assumed was a human turns to you. They know what you are, all those terms exclusive to your undead kind. They're a breach of masquerade, and yet something invisible is wrapped around your throat that comes from this stranger.

You don't what this thing is or why it knows of you. It tries to explain that it feeds on fear and maiming, making people bleed and lapping it up the same as you. It'll share the meals if you play nice. It'll even let you bunk in it's twisted realm of meat and decay. You choke out an okay, just to get it to let go of you, but it knows you're insincere. It lets you run away.

Every night since you've dreamt of meat, decay, drowning in blood. The beast incarnate you once saw preys on your dreams. You begged an Alucinor to walk into your dreams and save you, but they were slain to never wake again. More vampires, almost exclusively neonates, have encountered the beast. Those who join it disappear forever. Attempts to kill it have failed miserably.

Another beast has been sighted in the area, and you can only hope the Ordo can capture or kill the thing before it grows strong like the first one did. You also hope it doesn't have friends.

Sorry for the fiction drop. Beasts only make good antagonists for some reason. It's the IC reason the vampires fear the beasts in my setting. They barely encounter them and actual encounters have gone badly every single time.

>>50847997
They ever manage to at least wound a Beast?

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>>50847970
They're no "masquerading as the Anarchs", they're occupying the same niche, same as the Invictus occupies the same niche as the Camarilla.

The Carthians aren't fascist. They're as far from fascist as you can get. And using the anarchist communist syndicalist group as fascist just seems incredibly stupid to me, especially considering there's already a vampire fascist organization. Running the Carthians as fascist just seems incredibly uninspired to me, especially when there are several things on the Left that you can draw from. I mean for fucks sake one of the most notable examples of a functioning anarchist system is a group of men sailing around using their democratic power to decide to assault and plunder other ships, steal the goods, fence them, and get drunk and go whoring. Running the Carthians as landlubber pirates is more interesting than "let's ignore all their history and baggage and just make them Nazis".

>>50840763
What is this?

>>50848063
Not to mention the fact that the Carthians are prime ground for "you don't think and act the right way so taste the sun" thought policing. That one's right there in the book for you.

>>50848063
She got a breast reduction

>>50848063
>In front of a burning building
>Not Frenzying

>>50848063
>anarchist communist syndicalist
I don't think you can be all those at once

>>50848124
They're Ordo Dracul engaging in a false flag to make the Invictus wipe out the Carthians.

>>50847997
I'm going to admit I've always liked the idea of the Autumn Court and a whole bunch of Beasts joining forces.

Are there any cool Mage Legacies that focus on the weak-point of one of the paths? Say, an Acanthus legacy dedicated to Forces, or a Mastigos legacy dedicated to Matter?

>>50848063

Ok maybe, i am explaining myself incorrectly regarding the fascist bent of carthians in the city i am planning. Their leader, was elected because it was an emergency and they needed a strong leader, he then proceed to take control of the covenant in the name of solving said emergency (he created). The conflict with the invictus comes from then pushing for a more violent and direct approach while the invictus pushes for slower one.

The leader will obviously sell the party line of being one of the people, and that every kindred matters and what he does he does in the name of solving the inminent crisis. But also that he, young as he is, can lead perfectly and thus the system of the "elder rule" is obsolete. So the ideological separation between Carthians and invictus in my city comes more from "how do we choose leaders?"

Thats what i mean by fascist.

>>50848077
Tome of secrets

>>50848050
Yeah, but the Ordo lost most of their mortal experiments and blood dolls after. The beasts are hit-and-run terrorizers for the most part. When your enemies can only attack at night and most of their havens are dimly lit, it's very easy to impose more lair traits and then open a pathway to drag their food and playthings through. Or do the same to merge with their horror and fight vampires on much more equal terms.

>>50848190
If we had 2e for changeling I'd probably be running that crossover since my players are good about keeping power balance in unbalanced situations. Fear feasters realm-hopping and trying to keep the cops off of their asses.

>>50848175
To be fair that is not far off considering what happened in Bloodlines.

>>50847360
Beasts make pretty good antagonists, considering they literally feed off of abuse, exploitation, and suffering.

>>50848197
Sure, most prominent one I can think of are the Tamers of Winds.

>>50847726
2e leaves a hell of a lot of stuff out, actually. If you want spirit world fluff/environment, the Hisil appendix in 1e is significantly better.

>>50848197
Acanthus get a bunch of Forces-based Legacies, because Acanthus have always been the best Path.

>>50847136
One part of the book says that Beasts who spend any real length of time with Werewolves or Mages eventually consider that answer metaphorical at best, self-aggrandizing bullshit at worst.

>>50847997

Beasts tend to change their morality to the group their hanging out with. The one rule thing to remember to stay fed is to be scary. As long as your a little bit scary you can stay fed.

Its really simple morality like this that lets them stick to other splats like shit on the bottom of a shoe.

Running with wolves? If the pack is okay with it I'm okay with it.
Stalking with Blood Suckers? I can murder people for you and not look like a 'before' picture.
Hanging with mages? I'm a godless asshole with no respect for anything or anyone too! Kisses.

Beasts don't degrade morally so the only thing they really care about are the social implications for their actions and that they can at least squirrel people away to their torture dungeon after the shift is over. That and role playing but really who does that here?

>>50848163
You can, actually. Anarchism is a political philosophy centered around a lack of authority save that which can justify itself ("on the matters of boots, I defer to the bootmaker" for instance);
Syndicalism is a socialist economic theory about communal operation of businesses and, ideally, the rest of the government, with people taking on the roles the community needs (also called Anarcho-Syndicalism).
Communism is, well, the Marxian philosophy that both operate under where each person is paid due to his abilities and needs instead of in a capital driven system that creates unnecessary surplus at the exploitation of the worker.

I would link the Anarchist FAQ, but frankly it's terribly edited and makes everything twice as wordy as necessary.

>>50848124
Willpower.

>>50848221
It still seems incredibly uninspired to me.

>>50847136
That's not even remotely true, and even if it were, it's not like Beast is unique in having it's own view of the cosmology. Then again, you people argue the same thing about Mages doing that, which is equally untrue.
Also, it's Dark Mother, and we all know that she's the Astral reflection of The Crone who's spiritual reflection is Luna.

>>50848501
The great thing is that Werewolves are explicitly wrong about a lot of their own cosmology, according to Sundered World.

>>50848605
You can't be syndicalist and communist at the same time. At least, you can't be syndicalist and practical communist (Bolshevist).

>>50848605
>he great thing is that Werewolves are explicitly wrong about a lot of their own cosmology, according to Sundered World.

Only mages know the real Truth (tm)

>>50848345
Yeah pretty much. if they aren't the monster in the dark, the are greatly encouraged to be enablers for other splats to be total monsters

>>50848605

Aspel, you're the person who cobbles together Hunter groups "based" on Magical Girls and Slasher movies and decided to just clone Gotham City for a Werewolf game, you don't get to talk about what's uninspired or not.

>>50848605
>That's not even remotely true
You kidding? It's their first fucking theme "There are no neat little boxes".

>>50848705

To be fair, that's supposed to count for them as much as it does their kin.

...Which would be more prominent if their mythology was just as weird and contradictory as their kin's get, but Beast is nothing if not a bunch of missed opportunities and half-bakedness.

>>50848664
ignore the flatulence, you will not get anything of value and it will bloat out its blog points that no one really cares about

>>50848664
That's a fucking stupid argument. "You used inspirations I don't like so that means you're uninspired". I didn't ignore the themes and attitudes of a faction in the setting to go with something completely different instead of something that works. It would be like making the Circle of the Crone into a Catholic organization (without using the Livian Heresy), or making the Lancae et Sanctum a pagan organization (without using the Livian Heresy; I just like the Livian Heresy).

Ignoring a group's themes just because you don't like the themes isn't inspired or interesting, especially when there are existing groups that handle those themes better.

>>50848705
That also applies to their own view of things. Point to where in the book it says that Beasts know everything and talk down to and correct the other splats.

>>50848750
Wah wah

>>50848750
>>50848664
Like I said bloating out points from its failed blog that no one reads. but it must spread its view point and therefore will force it down the thread collective throats causing yet another derailment. so please quarantine the area ignore its nonsense posts until it goes away. Don't feed the troll

>>50847671
Now I want to write something based on this.

>>50848839
writefag to writefag DOIT

>>50848758

It barely counts as inspiration when you slap together what you found on wikis that don't hold up when anyone who actually knows about the things you based them on read them, to the point where you have to backpedal in to brand new "inspirations" to save face. You couldn't actually be bothered to at least change anything about Gotham to the point where you felt compelled to actually just throw in Batman's Rogue's Gallery.

Whether or not someone doing a retread of the Roman Republic falling into an Empire with the Carthians is "inspired" or not can be a subject of discussion, but you're the last person who gets to start it.

>>50848898
"No you brave Fool you've doomed us all!" Bending metal and twisting gears are accompanied by a harsh unforgiving sharp train whistle. The wooden baords crack and burst on all sides as a row of metal cart wheels slams down onto them. The passengers scream as the madmen throw jabs and bullets on the Horror Express

http://www.worldofdarkness.berlin/competition

Some of ya'll might be interested in this.

The Dark Eras Companion will usher in a new golden age!

I just bought a first edition VtM handbook, player's guide, and succubus club book at Goodwill. How much fun can I have with this? I've never played a tabletop game.

>>50848979

And you and I will live to see it! To quick and dirty Mummy 2e rules!

I was gonna knick the "Aquinas spoke of the city on the hill..." monologue from Deus Ex but I couldn't make it work.

>>50848898
>You couldn't actually be bothered to at least change anything about Gotham to the point where you felt compelled to actually just throw in Batman's Rogue's Gallery.
Why would someone set a game in Gotham and NOT use Batman characters?

>>50848998

You've got a lot of material to start with, which is good. A lot of people cut their teeth on RPGs through VtM, so while it's not the starting RPG I'd recommend to people, you'll still do fine. Do you plan to be the Storyteller, or do you just want to play a character?

Does it make sense to have Spirits attached to the social merits?
Like, a werewolf having Status within a spirit Court, or being Allies with them.
Or a Mage having a death-spirit as a retainer, to clean up annoying corpses and stuff.

>>50849232
I think you can. I mean there is the familiar merit. as long as the player is spending the points and isn't being a fool

>Trying to get some friends interested in CoD, going to run a mortals/hunter campaign and see where it goes.
>One guy's in no problem, does a solo session, winds up being hunted by a creature and nothing but the vague words of a dying man and an iron spike/nail in his possession. He's pretty hooked.
>One other guy is on the ropes, but he's going to join when he gets back from Christmas.
>Last guy isn't incredibly interested but loves the setting, so I foolishly decide to put together a handwritten account of some previous happenings in the game world in a spiral notebook, complete with fake newspaper clippings and receipts from a target, topped off with a flash drive containing a dozen or so blurry camera photos.
>Mail the first guy the package, tell him to put it in last guy's house's mailbox next time he's around that part of town (They all live near each other, I'm pretty far off). First guy thinks this is fucking awesome.
>Turns out, the last guy was about an inch away from turning in the notebook I sent him to the police until he realized the addresses and cities mentioned were fake.

Note to self, find a better way to warn people of plot hooks before they show up in the mail and get mistaken for a serial killer's memoirs.

>>50849232
I've never seen any reason not to. I once had a character concept that had Allies that were Spirits and Contacts with rats (it was a vampire with Blood Tenebrous and Animalism).

>>50849318
Tell me more on that last bit. I'm not quite sure what happened, though it sounds like a good story. Names might help. I tend to go through an alphabetical list.

>>50849318
Man I wish folks would go into that kind of dedication. Rad project mate.

>>50849318
You are AWESOME. WELL DONE!
You have any of those files to share with us? Because that is cool as hell.

>>50849318
>anon almost gets arrested trying to convince someone to play PnP with him

Now this is dedication.

>>50849101
I'd probably be the Storyteller, since I doubt none of my friends would be down.

>>50849341
Bill joins a game of CoD, has a great time.

John says he'll join later on, after the holidays.

Lance says he thinks it looks cool, but he doesn't care that much about tabletop. I, the ST, decide he needs something tangible to push him over the edge and get him to join. So I make up a fake notebook with a bunch of hunters' notes in them detailing what's happened the last few weeks prior in game. I mail the notebook and assorted parts to Bill and tell him to slip it in Lance's mailbox or under his door or something, make it seem authentic.

Notebook seemed almost too authentic, so I almost was subject to a police investigation since he thought it was legit. At any rate though, I most likely have a third player now.

>>50849318

I really gotta see this notebook now. I love game props.

>>50849413
You should have.
Can I join your game?
This dedication alone makes you seem like a god-tier ST.

>>50849413
Who almost turned you in? Lance?

Also, >>50849438 so hard. I wanna see what you made. I've made a few feelers, but they were just photoshopped letters and sketches, and one page of a Hunter's journal.

>>50849364
I don't have the notebook (Should've taken pictures before I sent them), but I can get some of the photos from a friend. I have a buddy who was in film school, we went to various places around town at night and snapped photos/videoes of stuff that looked suspicious or just not quite right. I was hoping to have a single video of a "hunt gone wrong," but I didn't have enough people to fill all the roles needed (End of the notes specify three of the four hunter group getting killed by a vampire dominating one and using him to shoot two of them before blowing his brains out).

I thought about doing a blair witch sort of thing for the video instead, a short film where a panic'd hunter describes what happened to everyone and said he wasn't going to last long now. His final act would've been to slip his notebook and this video into a folder and mail it to you, Lance, and hopefully you can succeed where I left off. Instead, the last part was just hastily written in red ink (Because I'm a cheesy motherfucker).

>>50849481
>but I can get some of the photos from a friend.
Fuck yeah! Do that!

>>50849481
>>50849492

Make an imgur gallery of it. Then it isn't as ephemeral as posts on 4chan.

>>50849232
Sure.
Better make that a Spirit of Decay though.

>>50849481

>Found footage CofD short

Holy shit, Anon, you rule, even if you couldn't get it off the ground.

>>50849501
>>50849492
I think once Christmas is over, I'll tell the recipient to snap some photos of the more interesting pages. As for the photos, I should have them by tomorrow since filmguy is coming back then.

Some didn't come out great, others were awesome. I got shots of a cemetery, a park, and a really nice one that was a "package" sitting on a bench under one of those orange security lights. No shots of the hunters' deaths though since I didn't have the people to fill it (Which is sad, had this been a decade ago, I could've got a lot of people around here to fill in on short notice).

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>>50849587
I did a similar project mate based on the slender trend. I shektced some bullshit pics went out into the woods at night. snapped a bunch of photos and then dropped them all into a file along with some road kill photos.

>>50849648
Shit, I didn't even think about using roadkill as viscera. I know a few spots that'd have worked great if I wanted to scrape up a deer and use it.

>>50849682
>deer
I have such photos. I was going through a photography phase, taking photos of anything I could. I have an entire folder listed as Bad shots. Shots I decided not to show people because they were too much, but I didn't want to throw away. And yes I do have deer shots.

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I love World of Darkness, but holy shit it's hard to find decent players. It seems like everyone either wants to play as something way too edgy and badass or some one 'oh so sexy' and 'witty' super model where Striking Looks and a Katana are an absolute must.

It's like they want the rest of the party to think they're cool by extension of their characters.

>>50850725
Dayman ah ah ah
Fighter of the Nightman ah ah ah
You are a master of karate and friendship for everyone

This hobby and this game pulls in people who feel disenfranchised and looking for acceptance. and therefore over compensate for perceived lack of depth. cause they're milky white toast

>>50847910

Why do people do this shit?

I came here to slay Vampires and make Werewolves cry, not cuddle with Changelings and pretend to have some kind of fucked up relationship with one of my party members.

>>50850830
Dayman as a Malkavian?

>>50850830
>milky white toast

What does that mean?

>>50850904
white bread with the crust cut off

>>50850883
I mean you could. like a malk who has a hero complex and designates a night man to fight. Night man having to be a kindred trying to eat someone dayman must 'save'

>>50850869
They're objectively victims of supernatural fuckery, who were kidnapped and then escaped. Some hunters need a princess to save. We do lose more hunters that way though

>>50851028
Someone always has to be Captain Save-A-Hoe

>>50851028

#thisisnotthemovies

#stupidhunters

#chivalrywillgetyoukilled

>>50848063
bruh what do you think National Socialism was???

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>>50850993

The night man and the day man are concepts of Charlie. The night man was supposed to represent Charlie's self perceived badass darkside. He enjoys being the Nightman because it's so wrong. While the Dayman was a shade of Charlie that countered the Nightman, when he was feeling good and full of light and friendship. (Like when he tricks his brain into thinking that the girl at the coffee shop and him have an official thing rather than a potential restraining order ready to happen at any given moment.)

Assuming it really is the Dayman and not some thinly veiled rip off, they would represent much more than just a man with a hero complex and a rogue kindred. It would be a struggle between pure good and evil! A cunning rogue against the very nature of purity and good shining through the darkness. A true representation of a humanity 1 monster able to blend into society against a humanity 9 defender.

>>50851106
Not even remotely a socialist form of government any more than the any Democratic People's Republic is a Republic, Democratic, or of the people?

>>50848063
>Nazis

The Nazi's were more Left than Right. Ironic considering how much they criticized the left and socialism.

>>50851124
Isn't that just Wraith then? I can see you've given it some thought. but that can easily fall into split personality Detective hunting down the Criminal who is himself. If thats like your thing, than ok goodluck with that

>>50851135
and you think the carthians could not possibly ever make the exact same mistake, the mistake people have made countless times over in the last century nevermind longer periods of time?

fascism isn't just an ideology distinct from left or right, it's a practice. Leftists and people on the Right are equally capable of engaging in fascist behavior, with their ideologies providing window dressing for that behavior.

arguing "it's in bad taste and not creative" is fine, but arguing that it doesn't make sense is really dumb, dude.

>>50851135
>Democratic People's Republic is a Republic, Democratic, or of the people?
Nice "Socialism failed" denial there

>>50851166

>Just wraith

No, you're thinking about it much too simply. The Nightman is mean but it isn't just wraith, it's all of the deadly sin in action. The Nightman would represent all things bad to an extent because it's about feeling good about being so bad 'Because' you're so good at being so bad. The Nightman oozes with confidence, and takes pride in himself to narcissistic levels of self appreciation. Part of his fun isn't just knowing that he's just that good at being bad, it's about showing the world it.

> Detective hunting down the Criminal who is himself

I imagined that you actually split them into two different people heavily inspired by the original concepts, but okay that works too. I like that idea.

>>50851270
>wraith the oblivion not wrath the sin
Your shadow / beast is an evil twin half that is constantly trying to dick you over

>>50851312

Oh shit I misread that

So I've never played in a WoD game myself, but I've been pouring through the lore fore a few years now, but watching the past couple threads has gotten me wondering something.
Do you guys actually prefer the CoD stuff over the old WoD lore?
Like I just can't get into any of the changes they made to the old stuff, heck the only thing appealing to me from the CoD shit is the Promethean stuff.
Maybe I'm just a faggot I don't know.
Also I can't stop being salty about my favorite clan being reduced to a ventrue bloodline with all of it's lore stuffed into 2 pages.

>>50851590
Eh..the old WoD lore got pretty metaplot heavy and I kind of like the fact that the new stuff is lighter on that.

Also shadow owls are creepy as fuck.

>>50851590
I prefer the CofD stuff, personally.

>Also I can't stop being salty about my favorite clan being reduced to a ventrue bloodline with all of it's lore stuffed into 2 pages.
Yeah. That Bloodline is just boring. The infection angle in the Ventrue book is awesome though.

>>50851622
>>50851617
Well I guess if that's how most people feel then I should just give up hope of ever getting into a V:tM game.

>>50851798
Dude two random people on a Taiwanese goat fucking forum does not equal the majority of people. There are plenty that like the old stuff over the new.

>>50851160
>>50851174
>>50851261
The Nazis were not socialist, they were not Left. That's a ridiculous pile of bullshit that the American Right has been pushing for decades.

>>50851948
I wasn't even saying that. I'm saying that you're salty Socialism died with the Cold War.

It's christmas, so... anyone willing to gift Secrets of the Covenants to the community?

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>>50851948
>"We are socialists, we are enemies of today’s capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are determined to destroy this system under all conditions.” -Hitler 1927


>[51] Yet two years later, in 1929, Hitler backtracked, saying that socialism was “an unfortunate word altogether” and that “if people have something to eat, and their pleasures, then they have their socialism”. Historian Henry A. Turner reports Hitler’s regret at having integrated the word socialism to the Nazi Party name.[52] The Nazi Party’s early self-description as “socialist” caused conservative opponents, such as the Industrial Employers Association, to describe it as “totalitarian, terrorist, conspiratorial, and socialist”

He was a socialist. He just didn't like the stigma that came with the word so he attacked the label.

>>50852147
By the standards of the time, "National Socialist German Workers' Party" was a pile of buzzwords meant to resonate with both left-wing and right-wing people; it would be sort of like an American "Liberal Conservative Democratic Republican Party," except less awkward-sounding. It is true that Hitler hated the German aristocracy and wanted to crush it, and wasn't too fond of capitalism, but he also had no intention ever of giving the workers control of the means of production and was, obviously, extremely not-internationalist. He did incorporate some socialist components into his Germany, but that didn't make it a socialist state any more than, say, modern Norway is.

Socialism/nazis talk aside, i still dont see how is "not the carthians" for them to organize under a charismatic leader that is not selected the way of the invictus.

The carthian book say they are alternative goverments for vampires. Say democracy, that said democracy becomes just a mayority oppressing the minority is another matter.

>>50851590
I prefer oWoD for the most part. Running Masquerade for my friends and it's pretty fun. Can't say that Requiem interests me that much though I do like some of the stuff they did with it.

If we're talking about Vampire, it's just 2 different games and it depends on which one you like more in terms of lore and atmosphere. So just run Masquerade, especially since they're promising to make a 4th edition soon (tm)

Are Mages the only thing that can make undead/zombie type creations in WoD?

>>50852971
Nope vamps and sineaters can as well.

>>50852987
I thought that sin-eaters would be punished for that sort of thing?

>>50852971
Theoretically Werewolves could do it as well. Forcing a corpse to animate via spirit energy.

Sounds like a Bone Shadow rite, if you ask me.

Could a Beast make zombies?

>>50848998
>VtM 1e

Oh, you're in for a ride. Especially since those are the days when the Sabbat was the 'big unknown terrifying force' and the game's mentality was 'neonates vs. elders' type situations.

>>50849030
Because doing that as a WoD game is shitty and smacks of lack of inspiration when you can't come up with your own antagonists?

>>50849318
That's a lot of work for a TT session, well done. I've done stuff like that as LARP props before, which ahve worked out wonders for immersion.

>>50853299
Sure why not? They can invent powers based on other splats, can they not?
If they were to run into Revenants it'd fit.

>>50851590
The problem you're having is looking at it as 'changes to the old stuff'. It's not changes. It's using the same themes and setup (and in vampire's case, a LOT of the same terminology) and making a new game and world and setting from it. That's what I find trips a LOT of people. Plus looking at it for 1-to-1 comparisons for 'my favorite stuff' is always going to fall flat in any media.

Myself, I like both equally though there are certain games I like more than others.

I love both versions of Vampire. I like that VtM has a huge store of things to draw from, and a world I can drop new players in. I don't like the fact that a lot of people that play it tend to be 'OMG WHY DID YOU CHANGE THAT?!' if I deviate from the metaplot.

Conversely, I love Requiem because I appreciate the 'clans as archetype' and the fact that I can build a world full of mystery and my own setup, especially with how the Covenants function, and have a lot of options. The mystery and darkness of the world leads to coming up with intriguing things, without being held back by people expecting the metaplot.

People like what they like, and that's fine. But you're doing yourself, and both games, a disservice by looking at it through a 'they changed it, now it sucks' kind of mentality, especially by dint of a missing <favorite bit here>.

>>50852856
>4th edition

You're behind. Paradox considers V20 to be a proper 4th edition and their in-house edition, which is in playtesting, is being billed as 5th edition, or V:V.

If all of the things they've teased are going to come to pass, it could be REALLY good or it could be as polarizing as D&D4e was for that game.

Some things they've said are...
In 2001 the Gehenna-war for the graves of the Antediluvians began. In 2006 the rise of the Wyrm and the inevitability of ecological Apocalypse became publicly known. The Technocracy has won, we surrendered when we allowed machines to shape our values and minds, trapping us in the paranoid realms of our personal filter-bubbles.
They plan to have a 'unified core mechanic' across the gamelines, in the vein of NWoD.
For vampire specifically a number of 'core assumptions' like the Beast and the sects may have changed in the intervening years. This is also tied into a mention of a second Inquisition, and the Elders being destroyed or fleeing into hiding, leaving the neonates and ancillae as the majority of vampire society.

Right now their plan is for a 2018 release for a TT book at least count.

>>50850725
>bought loads of second hand werewolf tribe books over the space of 3 months
>so many of them are written in (like 70% of them, who writes in their fucking books REEEEE)
>reading through the black furies tribebook
>Get to the character sheet at the end, it's filled in
>character description: appearance 5 (sexy)
>character flaw: forced transformation (crinos) - sexual activites

That was enough reading for the evening. I know werewolf attracts furies but dude.

I finally got around to watching Gingersnaps, and it gave me an idea that I think might be fun to use to mess with my players. A form of degenerative lycanthropy that slowly moves you towards being a rabid, urshal-like werewolf. Carried by werewolves who suffer no symptoms and used by the ivory-claws to ensure their "weaker" brethren don't sully the bloodline by breeding with humans or wolf-blooded who would suffer the effects, or potentially using it as a weapon where conventional means haven't worked(Especially if it were transmitted through bodily fluids)

>>50853553
>There's something similar in the 1e book Predators, a lycanthropy. You could look at mechanics from it as well.

>>50853565
I'll definitely have to check it out, it'd save me the trouble of home-brewing a whole multi-stage condition just to warn my hunter group of the danger of unsafe sex

>>50853444
>In 2001 the Gehenna-war for the graves of the Antediluvians began. In 2006 the rise of the Wyrm and the inevitability of ecological Apocalypse became publicly known. The Technocracy has won, we surrendered when we allowed machines to shape our values and minds, trapping us in the paranoid realms of our personal filter-bubbles.
We'll be able to cast down the Technocracy at some point, right?

>>50853588
Who knows? That's literally all they've said about mage, everything else has been something for Masquerade. I assume so if you want to as ST and aren't a 'OMG WE CAN"T CHANGE THE METAPLOT' grognard.

>>50853324
This isn't the Beast mimicking another splat though; I'm intending this to be sort of a natural power that this particular... group has.

Right there are a lot of stories about things raising the dead to do evil, I've figured that Beasts could probably recreate that in some way.

>>50853622

I think it's implied that the Dark Mother will grant inspiration to her children, so a Nightmare that functioned like Mage's raising dead spells wouldn't be out of the question.

>>50853576
Wait, sorry, it's in the Night Horrors: Wolfsbane book, my bad.

>>50847970
Hey, guy. Don't listen to Aspel. Fascist Cathians are awesome.

>>50854147
>Don't listen to Aspel

This should be the mantra of all WoD General threads.

>>50854226
Maybe include it in the OP pasta

>>50852000
It didn't? Most of the western world is more socialist than the US.
>>50852147
Hitler called it socialist so it was? Oh, guess that settles that then!

>>50852724
The Carthian book also implies it's possible for them to be Fascists without actually going into detail about how. Their whole thing is equality among vampires, while fascism is inherently autocratic. If you actually want ideas for a centralized Carthian rule under a single individual, I'd again suggest looking to piracy, and some of the captains who ended up getting marooned by their crews. Pirate crews were very anarchist, going for ad hoc democratic rule, but part of the Code was generally that during combat time you've got to follow the Captain because that's the captain's job: To organize and tactically coordinate when the ship is at war.

That's how you could have your autocratic Carthians. They're deferring to the bootmaker on the subject of boots, only here things have gone on too long and there aren't results.

Although even if you excuse autocratic Carthians, you've still got them working with the Lancae et Sanctum, who generally want nothing to do with the Carthians.

>>50853310
Taking a thing that exists and then reimagining it isn't lacking inspiration, regardless of whether you like it or not.

>>50853299
>>50853622
>>50853638
Nightmares are generally like a lot of Vampire powers: i.e. spooky mind control hallucinations. Raising a Zombie would be more of an Atavism thing, but even then those are mostly internal, not external (i.e. they change the Beast)

>>50853444
Ah, didn't realise V20 is considered as a 4th edition.

To be honest, the changes don't sound so bad. I would be interested in seeing the world after the Masquerade falls. Sure, STs can create this themselves, but it's be interesting to see where WW sees this can go


>>50853496
Oh lawd, do you have more? This sounds hilarious

>>50854290
It won't be 'after the Masquerade falls' though, in a True Blood 'OMG EVERYONE KNOWS OF VAMPIRES' thing. The Masquerade still exists and humans, on the whole, are none the wiser, according to some other information that's come out.

>>50854279
First Mate ruled the crew. Captain did combat. First Mate was chosen. Not really anarchist. More democratic. You really need to work in the precision on your use of terms.

You are also confusing our perspective on Carthians with any narrative perspectives. It might be true that as per RAW Carthians loathe the feudalism of the Invictus. However, from the perpective of a Carthian in a feudal Carthian controlled city, Carthian may still be Carthians.

The world isn't as black and white as you think, especially not the WoD. It is entirely possible for people to believe they are a thing, which they are in fact not.

Like you, believing that your an astute and erudite poster, where really your behaviour is that of a troll.

Lastly. Sanctified and Carthians could very well work together. Equality amongst the monsters of God can be a very Sanctified thing, if for example these Sanctified are informed more by Protestant movements, than by the Catholic church. True, it is not the default. But following the default is quite "uninspired", wouldn't you agree?

>>50854245
Second it

>>50854279

I didn't realize "reimagining" was just "I will not change any part of Gotham City, and also I'll have them hunt Solomon Grundy, I guess."

It's not a matter of not liking the inspiration, it's just that you should be aware that if you're going to talk about what's inspired or not, it's just the pot calling the kettle black.

>>50854365

It's not hard to make a Fascist appeal to equality through the lens of their ideology. It's going to be bullshit, but it's not like Fascist movements are afraid of outright lying to people to get what they want.

That said, my favorite asshole Carthians are Tankie Carthians. They're gonna drain your blood and then lecture you on THE TRUTH about the Holodomor.

>>50854279
HM
Beasts can be a bit confusing at times.

So, what do people think about using the Followers of Set as a covenant in Requiem? I'm working on a covenant writeup for them, but I'd be interested in what people think of the concept.

>>50854569
What is the concept? Followers of Set is a name, not a concept.

>>50854619
The ones from Masquerade. Although, upon reflection, they're a bit tangential to the vampire concept that truly fascinates me: the symbiotic relationship. It's a bit disappointing that none of the covenants seem to look at the idea of making actual deals with mortals: you give me your blood and in exchange, I'll use my powers to help you.

>>50854546

When in doubt, just have it be some kind of dark ritual that makes the power innate in that faction of Beasts. Beasts are supposed to be looking for the weird outliers of the World of the Chronicles of Darkness, so it's not out of character for some of them to actually be able to raise the dead, especially with how isolationist their Broods can be.

>>50854279
> If you actually want ideas for a centralized Carthian rule under a single individual, I'd again suggest looking to piracy, and some of the captains who ended up getting marooned by their crews. Pirate crews were very anarchist, going for ad hoc democratic rule, but part of the Code was generally that during combat time you've got to follow the Captain because that's the captain's job: To organize and tactically coordinate when the ship is at war.
>That's how you could have your autocratic Carthians. They're deferring to the bootmaker on the subject of boots, only here things have gone on too long and there aren't results.

Dude, thats exactly what i am doing. The carthian leader rules the movement now because they are in a state of war.

As for the Lancea Sactum and the Carthian, well fair enough, theirs is a more ideological divide. So if one of my players is very into the setting as written then it might raise an issue.

Post music you would use/play as background or inspriational for a WoD setting.

GO!

From my own setting, the city of Queens Point...

* La Petite Mort, the industrial/dance club:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59MA0vIOC44

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfK_kwNMjTg

https://youtu.be/CgBpc6fKcLA

https://youtu.be/iGUz9x2E9sU

https://youtu.be/q_hwqbhdQLI

* The Elysium at Raines Manor:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wk378T9pb3c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVY91ffIV8U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtydebLyFyE

General OOC Ambiance/Mood Setting
https://youtu.be/ZrGmuInMc0o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydJ_NiXy7zs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unJ_1nVGOqk

https://youtu.be/7kE7I7wjRj4

https://youtu.be/ktOHCVni1HI

https://youtu.be/GSbtDr4JFSo

https://youtu.be/bwGLQ76XK5w

https://youtu.be/nP-scQN4rk8

>>50854365
No one ruled a pirate ship. They were democratic. I don't need to work on the precision of my terms (in this instance at least), you need to understand the terms; Anarchism and democracy aren't mutually exclusive. Anarchism as a political philosophy generally focuses on direct democracy.

And yes, Sanctified and Carthians *can* work together. But just as with "carthians are nazis i guess", the poster presents a setting with no reasonable explanation of how they got there.

>>50854510
>I will not change any part of Gotham City
I wasn't aware Solomon Grundy was a Promethean, or that Jason Todd was Wolfblooded.
But I don't really need to defend my setting in the first place. Just like I don't really need to defend "yeah I think that's boring and not a reasonable extension of the setting as presented in the books".

Also, yes, if you want evil Carthians you should look to the perversion of Leftist idealogies, like Stalinism.

>>50854546
Not really. Nightmares are mental affects, Atavisms are monster powers.

>>50854838
The way you described your setting, it sounds as if they are fascist and have been fascist for 50 years
> the Lancea Sanctum and a alliance with the Carthian all because outside of the city there warring gangs of "Brides of Dracula" (from dance macabre) whom pop up some 50 years ago and sudenly got a constant influx of members.
>The Brides secretly were a failed social experiment of the carthians (that function as fascist regime)
Although I'm not actually sure how that's the Carthian's fault or anything, either.

>>50855237
The Carthian covenant book outright says that fascist Carthians are a thing (it also says that the Carthians aren't inherently opposed to the Lancea Sanctum).

>>50855237
>The way you described your setting, it sounds as if they are fascist and have been fascist for 50 years
>> the Lancea Sanctum and a alliance with the Carthian all because outside of the city there warring gangs of "Brides of Dracula" (from dance macabre) whom pop up some 50 years ago and sudenly got a constant influx of members.
>>The Brides secretly were a failed social experiment of the carthians (that function as fascist regime)
>Although I'm not actually sure how that's the Carthian's fault or anything, either.

Ok, is the fault of the Carthians because they create the brides of dracula in a surrounding city to see how a anarchist form of goverment would stand on its own. Then it just got out of hand and the brides took a life of their own. And started warring agaisnt the carthians themselves and the rest of the covenants of boston.

I has been 50 years since the leader was elected for times of war. Like you said "during combat time you got to follow the captain".

>>50855237
>s", the poster presents a setting with no reasonable explanation of how they got there.
And then instead of asking, like a normal fucking person: hey, how are you going to do this thing? You go: YOU'RE HAVING BADWRONGFUN

>>50855327
The Carthian Covenant book doesn't actually go into detail about how a Carthian group could become Fascist. It basically just uses the term fascist like 12 times offhandedly.

>>50855345
Well in what way are they even fascist?
Also, I'm still not even sure how that's their fault.
"We gave some dudes a bit of Kropotkin and Marx, but it turns out they don't read good and they really like meth and violence, whoops, our bad"?

>>50854245
Thirded

>>50855237
>no one ruled a pirate ship. They were democratic.
Not really true, no. They had a degree of democracy as everyone was needed for the ship to function well, but the Captain was in charge as he was often the only one with the navigational and leadership skills needed to make sure things didn't go all fuckey, that's the only reason he was able to take a larger share of the loot in most cases.

>>50855237
>>The Brides secretly were a failed social experiment of the carthians (that function as fascist regime)
>Although I'm not actually sure how that's the Carthian's fault or anything, either.

>it's not the mad scientist's fault the monster is destroying the city guys

Wow that's a lot of impressive amount of double think. my creation is not my fault

>>50855417

Just because it doesn't detail how it works doesn't mean it's impossible. Fascism's roots lie in both right-wing and left-wing thought, and a more anti-capitalist influenced Fascism is likely to develop in an environment that commits violence to survive, where backstabbing politics are common. Covenants ultimately exist to draw one away from the temptations of the Beast, and given its insidious nature and the difficulty of creating ideological unison among regional and international lines (though New York sure is trying), it is easy to see how a Kindred's darker nature could lead them to the direct violence and exclusionary control that is a part of the ideology.

>>50855237

>I wasn't aware that Solomon Grundy was a Promethean, or that Jason Todd was Wolfblooded.

Replicating a comic book character down to their name and slapping a template on them doesn't mean you've actually done anything with any real inspiration.

You can say whatever you like, that doesn't mean you have any real standing or power in your words. You don't get to talk about what's boring or uninspired when you're only a piece of media away from being creatively bankrupt.

>you should look to the perversion of Leftist ideologies

Though Fascism is not a left-wing ideology, it still counts as that, given its origins. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's out of the question.

>>50855787
Tell him how the covenants are really the five stages of grief. that really riles him over the lose of its gender

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>>50854279
>It didn't? Most of the western world is more socialist than the US.
It's democratic socialism, which really isn't socialism.

>>50855598
You're right, that's why pirate scholars consider them an early attempt at democracy. And why many bad captains were voted out. Not mutinied against, voted out. And often outright given a ship, supplies, and loyal crew. I'm sorry, Anon, I'm going to go with the ton of pirate shit I've read and articles like this http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/158274 over some guy on /tg/.

>>50855698
It's a social experiment, not a Goddamned killer robot.

>>50855787
Again, "it's possible" doesn't mean anything. It's also possible to have a Communist Invictus. But unless you tell me how that works, it means nothing.

>You can say whatever you like, that doesn't mean you have any real standing or power in your words.
Neither do you. You might as well argue that using the CofD setting is creative bankruptcy. It's about as meaningful. You don't like the idea of reimagining Gotham as a CofD city. That's fine. I think for anything else, I wouldn't like it either.

>>50855698
What do you expect from someone who continuously derails the thread and then cries victim?

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>>50856119
My point is that Socialism fell with the Soviet Union

>>50856099
>It's a social experiment, not a Goddamned killer robot.

When your social experiment wage war against your city for 50 years, it is kind of a killer robot.

>>50855417
>Well in what way are they even fascist?

In the sense that one guy is exercising death grip on the covenant in the name of inminent threath.

>Also, I'm still not even sure how that's their fault.
>"We gave some dudes a bit of Kropotkin and Marx, but it turns out they don't read good and they really like meth and violence, whoops, our bad"?

If your social experiment got out of control and became a huge enemy of the rest of the covenants and said covenants were to find out then they would most fuck you up.

>>50856257
I don't really understand that logic. We're talking about individual human bei--well, vampires. Who all have their own free will and choices. They're not a rampaging automaton or a murder zombie or something like that.

If you give some people ideas and then they take those ideas and do a 180 and turn into a rampaging biker gang, that's not exactly your fault. You might feel some sense of responsibility, and people might blame you, but that isn't exactly a mad scientist playing God and creating a monster. And I can't even see blood hunts being called over that. Shit, I can't even say that it's the Ordo's fault, since they had their shit stolen from them.

>>50856353

I guess agree to disagree on that point. My understanding of how people works is different than yours.

To me if a one gives the means, organization and resources to a group and said group becomes invaders at the gate then the others are gonna be murderous angry if they found out. Without getting into that they might think it wasnt an accident but a plot.

>>50856099

Except we're not talking about the intersection of Feudalism and Communism, which actually would be a big stretch, we're talking about a political ideology that born out of the same revolutionary politics that influenced the development of the Carthians. We're taking about something with actual historical precident. We know how a Fascist Carthian system would work because we've seen the philosophic origins of it, and we know about the inherently corrupting nature of the vampire. Fascism, while not Leftist, is a perversion of Leftist thought. It is just as valid a selection for an asshole Carthian faction as Stalinism, Juche, Ba'athism, and Maoism.

>You might as well argue that using the CofD setting is creative bankruptcy.

CofD actually blends its inspirations into something can it can call its own. You, on the other hand, copy pasted a comic book city and slapped CofD terms and templates on it, and called it a day. It is not a "reimagining" by any stretch of the imagination. At best, it is only the starting point for a reimagining, something to build on. But you didn't, and here we are.

You can throw as many "neither do you"s as you like, that's not going to change the fact that you're the last person to be taking about what's "inspired" and what isn't.

>>50855978
>>50854279
>Most of the western world is more socialist than the US

As the other Anon accurately stated, much of the western world follows a more Democratic Socialist philosophy, which despite the name, is hardly socialist in form, intend or execution.

Every one of the Democratic Socialist countries, including in areas like Scandinavia, are unquestionably strong capitalist democracies. They simply have a little better social safety net, and even this has been demonstrably decreasing over the last few decades due to factors like more limited resources, competition, lack of prior ethnic and cultural heterogeneity due to factors like lower birth rates and third-world immigration, etc.

It would be more accurate to say that "Much of the western world is equally capitalistic, but with slightly better and decreasing social benefits, than the USA."

If you want to discuss countries that actually strive for what most would consider "socialism," the conversation will drift to "successes" like Venezuela. Heck, even purportedly "communist" China has transitioned to a strong capitalistic (albeit still totalitarian) society in order to raise the living standards of its billions of citizens.

>>50856424
>resources
I mean, I doubt the Carthians felt meth and motorcycles or whatever were part of their experiment in anarchism. Then again, I feel like there'd also need to be a good explanation of how an experiment in anarchism by the Carthians, who presumably know that actual Anarchism as a political philosophy isn't disjointed chaos, would turn into a biker gang.

>>50856639
>You, on the other hand, copy pasted a comic book city and slapped CofD terms and templates on it, and called it a day.
No, I didn't. But I'm tired of arguing with you so what's it matter.
>>50856678
See above.

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>>50856729
>He can't defend modern "socialism"

>>50856729
>knows nothing, can't defend own position

A friend is suggesting he run a solo Mage module with me to get his feet wet before running a larger campaign. Would that actually be better than having, say, two players or something?

>>50855832
Is it
Denial-Carthians
Anger-Lancea Sanctum
Bargaining-Ordo Dracul
Depression-Invictus
Acceptance-Circle of the Crone?

>>50856800
this'll be his very first GMing experience by the way.

>>50856729

Oh, yes you did. You couldn't be bothered to make up a fake city, you didn't want to use a real city, then you found a full map of Gotham and voila, you had your "reimagining".

You know why you wouldn't like it for anything else, either? Because you know you only picked it out of laziness, and you know that if it was anyone else but you pitching that with the same lack of effort, you'd complaining about it too.

>But I'm tired of arguing with you

Remember when you used to make fun of Carmilla for doing passive-aggressive pseudo-disengagement like this? How times have changed.

>>50856800
>>50856816

Yes, actually. One Mage can get up to a lot of shenanigans with magic, so even seeing one Path in action should be able to prepare him for a larger cabal. Mage can be a very hard game to run, because it encourages players to solve problems in ways STs might never have seen coming. It's rewarding, but it does mean a new ST needs to sharpen their improv and not be afraid to throw down session-only rulings if need be as they learn.

Mage is a tall order for a newbie GM, but a one-on-one can really help.

>>50856814
pretty close

Denial-Invictus : Hiding what they are and refusing to change
Anger-Carthians : Violent change at any cost
Bargaining-Ordo Dracul : experiments
Depression-Lancea Sanctum : I am damned
Acceptance-Circle of the Crone

>>50856888
This might be why I find the Circle of the Crone so viscerally appealing: I like the idea of accepting my nature and moving forward anyway. While still being able to do things like be nice to humans if I choose to.

>>50854245
Fourthed

>>50856912
yeah mate. it's a lot of back and forth when you're dealing with lose, and grief. It's just working through the pain. and plenty of looping

>>50856832
>Carmilla
but the carmilla had power and influence. which would arguably let them continue to exist. that Anon has neither but desperately wants them. does it still count?

>>50856888
But the Lance are clearly the ones who accept their place. It's part of their belief system. You could also argue that they're bargaining with God, though you could argue that the Invictus are bargaining with order and the Carthians are bargaining with equality. The Crone are also pretty angry, and the Dragon was created when someone got *that* pissed off at God.

>>50857829
The Sanctified don't accept jackshit. They adorn themselves with ludicrous beliefs and laws to institutionalize and externalize their own self-loathing.

I always felt like the Stages of Grief were better represented in the 1e Changeling courts, sans acceptance. Vampire's Covenants seem a little bit more high concept for a metaphor, but that's just me.

>>50858129
Accepting that you're God's Monster is kind of their whole schtick.

>>50858226

I'm a little sad to see the Seasonal Courts share the stage in 2e because of exactly that. Having them be the stages of grief/common responses to trauma was really solid stuff.

As for Covenants, I've always viewed them as answers to the question of what to do know, acting as support groups for the horror of being Kindred; the Carthians and Invictus offer things to do and human ideologies to rally behind, the Circle and Sanctified comfort folks with spiritual answers and affirmations that monstrosity is okay, and the Ordo offers some semblance of control over a fate forced on you.

>>50858520
But it's not a matter of acceptance, it's a matter of making shit up.

>>50858634

I agree. I was never opposed to the new Court system, but I do feel like that losing that aspect is a bummer. I'll probably have my first Changeling 2e game keep the Seasonal Courts, unless my players really want to make their own.

>>50858884

Well, they'll be in the book still! I think Miami is coming back with them, and then Paris, Honshu, amd Toronto share the other space if my memory serves. Here's hoping we get 2e Directional Courts soon, ideally in Hong Kong.

>>50858918

I had a feeling they would be, it'd be really hard to convert some aspects to 2e if they weren't. I'm looking forward to Toronto's.

>>50858634
>As for Covenants, I've always viewed them as answers to the question of what to do know, acting as support groups for the horror of being Kindred

Me too, its my main draw to requiem.

>>50859056

Paris sounds neat. I've argued with the freelancer doing it a couple of times but they pretty solid work.

>>50838517
Just reinstalled Vtm, am planning to play as a tremere for the first time, any tips lads?

>>50859670
No tips necessary, Tremere is easy mode.

>>50859670
On the one hand, you have some of the best shit in the game.

On the other hand, the second you let you guard down, you WILL be brutally killed by a Gangrel. Or a Tzimisce. Or a Nosferatu. Or a Gargoyle. Or a Salubri antitribu. Or basically anybody, because everybody fucking hates the Tremere.

Have fun!

>>50858634
>>50859179
>support groups for the horror of being Kindred
More like enabler groups.

>>50860354
I think he means the Bloodlines video game, since he said "reinstalled"

Hey guys, do you know if Imgur has an image limit? I haven't been updating my gallery in about a year now and wanted to add new images but the uploads keep failing and I have no idea why.

http://thenewminus.imgur.com/all/

>>50860515
It has an image limit, yes. But also Imgur is garbage and buckling under the strain of its userbase.

>>50860673
Well shit, I don't know where else can I mass move the images then (if people care about that of course, since I'm gathering portraits for my games as well). Minus died without any warning, now Imgur is also dying. At this point the only thing I can do is provide zip folder with all of the pics every once in a while if I add new stuff

>>50860383
oh missed that part

nvm I suck cocks

>>50860367
there's a reason why you ding a breaking point when joining one

For Requiem, which covenant is best if you want to be the leader (or, maybe more realistically for a starting character, the childe of one) of a community, such as a crappy inner-city neighborhood with no one else to turn to, who protects and provides for the people there in exchange for Vitae? Religious leadership is a possible bonus but isn't mandatory.

>>50860894

That background could be easily accomplished as a member of the Invictus, Carthian or even Lacea et Sanctum. I believe it would be more difficult with the Crone or Ordro.

>>50860894

Carthians, nothing says useless dirty poor people like carthians

>>50860950
The Lancea Sanctum spends too much time abusing its flocks, IMO. I was considering Carthians, but I thought that Circle of the Crone would also work: they attract mortal worshipers sometimes, and another viable form of natural vampirism could very well be a form of symbiosis. Ordo Dracul, I agree would likely not want to bother with such a project.

>>50860894
>>50860950

How about a childe of an old school Invictus organized crime boss that's been undead since the 1940's and has a noir flair.

The vitae would be part of a classic "protection" racket, but the neighborhood would still really be protected from outsiders and malcontents since it's the sire's territory.

>>50861048
>Lancea Sanctum spends too much time abusing its flocks

Not abusing, rather educating and instilling faith.

>>50848190
Throw in some Nos for some Nightmare Blood Suckers

>>50861158
Interesting, and I could possibly work with that, but wouldn't the Invictus take a dim view of breaking the Masquerade there?

>>50860950
Circle of the Crone are all about community. They're big on acts of creation, and protecting their shit.
>>50861048
>The ambivalent relationship of the Sanctified to their living flocks is a case in point. While they have for centuries maintained a strict rule that they do not worship alongside the living, vampiric shepherds do everything they can to make sure these churches survive, pursuing those who would persecute or otherwise harm the living church with terrifying viciousness.
>On the other hand, the Sanctified believe that they must keep their flocks strong. With fear, a Sanctified monster keeps the wayward children of Mother Church on the straight and narrow: teenagers are terrified into maintaining their virginity by the monsters who hunt at Lovers’ Leap; an abusive priest is fed on, and then driven to suicide; a family is frightened into staying with the church by nightmares and supernatural portents. With temptations, the monsters weed out the weak: A vampire plays on the deep-seated doubts of a nun, driving her to experimentation and addiction, then to prostitution and finally to homelessness and death; a televangelist is given the opportunity to embezzle funds from the Rwandan Orphanage Appeal; a student Bible-group leader is lured to his doom by a beautiful, dark woman. All too often those whom the Sanctified tempt and are found wanting become the next generation of the Sanctified themselves, rising from the grave to atone for the unforgivable
They're protective of their Flock. Even if it is through fear.
Did you give up on the Followers of Set?
>>50861173
To be fair that's usually through abuse.

>>50861158
Got to pay your red rent

>>50861214
>Did you give up on the Followers of Set?
I decided it didn't feel right to push an entire covenant with some aspects that wouldn't have been allowed by OP for a game in which I was only a player.

Also, I really, really hate the Lancea Sanctum. It's not an anti-Christian thing; actually, I think that the Sanctified practice a ridiculously fringe, hypocritical form of Christianity that shouldn't be nearly as powerful as it is.

>>50861273
>Sanctified practice a ridiculously fringe, hypocritical form of Christianity

Keep in mind that the CofD LeS involve the religious beliefs of undead creatures in a dark and unforgiving world brimming with supernatural ugliness that often makes vampires seem downright cuddly in comparison.

Cultist fringe beliefs that might not survive in the real world would thrive in the CofD.

>>50861273
See thats the thing. they're only as powerful as they are because they're a dark twisted reflection of a powerful and influential religion.

We keep getting christian vampires because they were once human and latch onto the familiar. We'd have the same thing is Norse mythology had taken over.

And because they're vampires and have the blood in them. everything they touch becomes twisted corrupted and fucked up. So yeah you're right but thats the point

>>50861158
>>50861212
>>50861220

I like the noir vampire crime boss, although I believe the setting neighborhood would definitely need both a hard boiled, cynical and powerful mage police captain as well as a no-rules, drug-running, competitive and totally uncouth werewolf pack as foils and antagonists.

>>50861369
Yes, but it's one thing to be a hypocrite about crusading for God's love or whatever; it's quite another to invert the entire point of Christianity by declaring that you're inherently damned and your purpose is to torment others. It really is Sabbat-tier shit; in fact, I think it's heavily based on the Path of Night.

>>50861380
State of Grace in Masquerade was a lot better about this. There are Christian (and Muslim and Jewish) vampires, and the majority of them just try to fiddle with their mortal beliefs to make them fit into the standard religious paradigm, which seems a lot more realistic to me than "welp, I'm undead now, I'd best become a parody of everything my religion preaches against!"

But this isn't quite my main point. I'm wondering about how a Circle cult would work for my planned symbiosis, and the freakin' pause button Cruac places on Humanity isn't helpful. Would it be fair, do you think, for there to be a merit that alleviates Cruac's effects there?

>>50861423
>merit that alleviates Cruac's effects there?

Absolutely not. It would not only be incompatible with and defeat the entire point of Cruac and the Crone, but also ultimately subvert the overall Requiem theme of the gradual loss of humanity that accompanies the cursed undead condition

.

>>50861421
Ooh! I think that the noir vampire crime boss could work nicely, but I'd rather fuse it with the Circle or the Ordo Dracul; it could be used for what is, in my opinion, a really interesting scenario in which a seemingly normal criminal organization hides steadily increasing occult weirdness the further into it you go. Much like the Giovanni from Masquerade.

>>50861464
I sense you wouldn't like the idea I had for Requiem's Setites, to be able to rewrite the breaking points of others (including mortals) without bestowing Banes.

>>50861421

You forget about the gorgeous Changeling dame with a dark secret who runs the hottest club in the neighborhood and plays both the cops and criminals.

>>50861423
>State of Grace in Masquerade was a lot better about this.
No it isn't. Because God and demons are objectively real and vampires are objectively demonic.
>the freakin' pause button Cruac places on Humanity isn't helpful. Would it be fair, do you think, for there to be a merit that alleviates Cruac's effects there?
We agree on something. I think it'd be hard to be Humanity 10 in the Crone--or even any Covenant--but the pointless cap is stupid and serves no purpose. Any narrative purpose is served by the things that Acolytes are already going to do as a matter of course, and Cruac doesn't need a mechanical drawback to make people hesitant to use it either.

You don't need a merit, just drop that aspect. It's dumb.

>>50861464
No it wouldn't. The Circle of the Crone is not, actually, the lolrandumb chaotic evil Covenant. The Circle of the Crone is fucking *obsessed* with creation and nurturing things. The name of the Covenant itself comes from the triune Goddess with the Maiden, Mother, and Crone. There's actually a position--a much admired and important position--within the Crone that is the Maiden, an explicitly high Humanity virgin who's never taken a life. If a vampire manages to stay a 'virgin' throughout a long unlife and high Status, they are a fucking rockstar and a play an important part in grounding the Acolytes around them.

The whole "Cruac is inherently torture so it caps your Humanity" aspect is pointless. Cruac is bloody and gross and violent, and no doubt many rituals will involve things that are Breaking Points, but capping your Humanity is stupid when many of the rituals involve nothing more than spilled Vitae. Meanwhile the Ordo Dracul powers directly involve outright torture and heinous acts only performable by the ethically and morally bankrupt.

>>50861636
>No it isn't. Because God and demons are objectively real and vampires are objectively demonic.
Wut? In Masquerade, demons had nothing directly to do with vampires and God would have loathed the Lancea Sanctum's practices; in Requiem, demons still don't have anything to do with vampires directly and God doesn't objectively exist.

>>50861423
The whole point of Cruac is that pulling from your darker natures you are rewarded with awesome power at the cost of objectively know You are not and will never be human again.

so no do not do this. it is the merit of cheat

>>50861665
>In Masquerade, demons had nothing directly to do with vampires
The Beast.
Also, God in Masquerade was basically the villain and probably would have dug the Lance. Or not, because consistent characterization of lynchpin backstory characters is for chumps and God is a dumbass who punished someone by turning them into an unkillable immortal superbeing.

>in Requiem, demons still don't have anything to do with vampires directly and God doesn't objectively exist.
Is State of Grace a thing from Masquerade because I assumed you meant, like, in the real world sense of being free of sin, but I'm not even sure that makes sense in context so you probably mean a specific thing from Masquerade.

>>50861740
>The Beast.
I've read Demon: the Fallen, and the Beast has nothing to do with any of that.

>Is State of Grace a thing from Masquerade because I assumed you meant, like, in the real world sense of being free of sin, but I'm not even sure that makes sense in context so you probably mean a specific thing from Masquerade.
State of Grace is a Masquerade supplement that talks about vampiric religious practices. I apologize for the confusion.

>>50861636
>We agree on something. I think it'd be hard to be Humanity 10 in the Crone--or even any Covenant

so the problem is a non issue and the reason for including it is suitably compelling

>>50861842
>so the problem is a non issue and the reason for including it is suitably compelling
The problem is when you start getting bumped out of the 7 range at higher levels of Cruac.

>>50861880
How horrifying, that would work great in a horror game about blood sucking leaches thou. OH WAIT

>>50861907
Well, it's fine provided that it separates you from mortals without forcibly altering your behavior. 5 isn't that bad, it's just kind of irritating.

>>50861907
>WoD is a horror game meme

>>50861726
No, the whole point of Cruac is embracing the Beast. But the Beast of the Circle of the Crone isn't an inherently destructive and monstrous force (and I kind of wish that 2e had focused on that or acknowledged it). Hell, the Circle even wants to be balanced, and doesn't take the whole George Lucas view of "Balance means no Dark" and focus on the Man, like the Invictus.

>Essentially, Crúac helps to eradicate balance inside the vampire. Many Acolytes are devoted to balance — this idea, after all, is what helps to include them in the natural order. All things must be balanced: human and Beast, life and death, creation and destruction, suffering and reward.
>The dark rituals of the Circle exist, in a way, outside the cycle. They allow the vampire to violate the natural ways and to disrupt the balance. And, as she does so, her own internal balances are similarly disordered. Is this a bad thing? Some cults say yes — and this is why they treat Crúac with the proper fear and respect. One may practice the rituals and do what one must with the dire powers, but to become slave to it is anathema. Blood magic is a gift from the gods, to be sure, but one should not overuse such a potent endowment for fear of insulting the powers that be. Some cults, however rare, eschew Crúac completely. Perhaps they were once practitioners, but found that the chains it placed upon their souls (or the chains it removed from the monsters within) were unwelcome.
Sections like this just come off feeling like narrative justification for a game mechanic decision, but Cruac doesn't need to cap your Humanity in the first place. That's not an effective drawback, and it doesn't need a drawback to begin with. Having Humanity loss associated with Cruac come from, you know, ACTUALLY SUFFERING BREAKING POINTS hammers all that shit I just quoted home a lot better than a hard cap.

>>50861842
>>50861907
It's not suitably compelling, though, and it adds nothing to the horror. It's an arbitrary cap. It doesn't even come from using Cruac, it comes from learning it. While it would be difficult for any vampire to reach Humanity 10, the Circle is the only Covenant who's blood magic is an objective auto-hit Humanity cap. If you have Cruac 5 you can't have Humanity 6 ever. No matter what Cruac rituals you know or how you use it.

This isn't compelling, it's arbitrary. It adds nothing because it doesn't explore the nature of using dark power for the sake of creation and protecting your creations, it brushes it off and doesn't even bother.

You can't just argue "this is a horror game so you take Sanity Damage for no reason!" because that's to horror games what the jump scare is to horror movies.

>>50861953
Knowingly pulling from your NON human powers pulls you from your human side. Who would have guessed ?

>>50861991

How do you feel about the minimum Humanity requirements of Theban Sorcery?

>>50861991
>Humanity is a moral / mental stat

It really isn't, all it does is fuck over your banes. You are all being very silly

>>50862028
It's completely non sense, obviously. I mean really what Vampire would ever be Humanity 1

>>50862014
And yet the Blood Magic that involves dissecting living beings doesn't pull you from your Human side permanently. And no other Disciplines pull you from Humanity permanently. So, clearly, there is a Goddamned disconnect.

>>50862028
That's also ridiculous, considering the Lancae et Sanctum do horrible shit on the reg, but I care about that less because I think the Lancae et Sanctum are dumbo. That's a technical term.
>>50862031
It is, though. It fucks over your banes, makes it harder to interact with Humanity, and--by taking away the punishment--makes it much easier to be horrible. It informs your morality. It's also, like, literally mental or at least spiritual.

>>50862277
>It is, though. It fucks over your banes, makes it harder to interact with Humanity,

>>50862031
>all it does is fuck over your banes

Literally what Anon said Jesus do they not teach you kids how to read these days. Fuck no wonder we got trumped

>>50862313
If you consider anything that interacts with Humanity a Bane, including the social penalty for interacting with non-Touchstone mortals, then sure.
But I don't think most people would consider that a bane, considering it's not listed as a Bane, it's just part of the nature of Humanity. I also pointed out that by no longer punishing you with troublesome Conditions for doing certain things, it makes it easier to be horrible, and that it also (by that same virtue) informs your morality and what you're willing of doing and capable of doing without feeling bad.

But sure, if you wanna just write off Humanity as unimportant go ahead.

>>50862474
>including the social penalty for interacting with non-Touchstone mortals
Yeah whats the problem? That you can't be a blood god golden child pure savor from old world? Suck tits and grow up. 2ed Humanity isn't about how moral you are. it's a measure of how human you feel. It's why playing superhero fucks with your balance. Humans can't take cars to the face and still keep going

>>50862612
I feel like you're completely missing my point. >>50861953
>Having Humanity loss associated with Cruac come from, you know, ACTUALLY SUFFERING BREAKING POINTS hammers all that shit I just quoted home a lot better than a hard cap.
>>50861991
>This isn't compelling, it's arbitrary. It adds nothing because it doesn't explore the nature of using dark power for the sake of creation and protecting your creations, it brushes it off and doesn't even bother.
>You can't just argue "this is a horror game so you take Sanity Damage for no reason!" because that's to horror games what the jump scare is to horror movies.

LASOMBRA FOREVER GUYS IM A LASOMBRA IRL IM NOT DRUNK PLS DONT BAN ME ABYSS IT HE BEST OBTENEBRATION IS ABYSS THE VOID CALLS YOU IM THE HERO PLS TRUST AND DONT BAN

IM NOT DURNK

>>50863595

Apparently the Beast Player's Guide has two new Hungers and Families each!

>>50863860
I would anser but Im kinda drunk and I dont wanna get banned and Im the hero pls dont ban and I'm the hero

>>50863872

Wasn't mean to be a reply to you anyway, bud. Go be drunk elsewhere.

>>50863907
tHATS

Kinda mean

ataMAKI

>Totally inebriated

>They only way one can possibly begin to enjoy Beast

>>50863923
Ya did it

Merry Christmas, you filthy animals.

>>50863989
Did you just assume my culture?

This would be an acceptable spell right?

Prime •••
Practice Perfecting
Primary Factor: Duration
Cost 1 Mana

Enchant a magical tool. For the duration the (potency number) of spells which use the tool as a yantra gains the rote action quality.

>>50864586
Not on your fucking life.

As Above, So Below is only acceptable, as it grants 9-again, or 8-again, which does nothing to change the probability of a spell's success, merely the probability of an Exceptional Success.

Granting the Rote quality to a spell would mean each die had a 51% chance of providing a success, rather than a 30%.

The change in the likelihood of success is dramatic, and given its potential for combination with other dice pool boosting abilites, you could incredibly safely decrease your dice pool to as low as 3, and still have an extremely (87%) high chance of success.

>>50864620
The only way I can find for a Mage to normally acquire the Rote quality on spellcasting, is to either cast with a Grimoire (knowing the Rote already), or be the creator of that very Rote.

This isn't something to merely hand out at 3-dots in Prime.

>>50864639
A'ight cool. I was wondering because I just noticed 'rote action' effect in the creative thaumaturgy section. I could still grant myself the rote quality on skill rolls (e.g. Life ••• to give my brawl attack the rote action etc.)

>>50864682
Indeed, usually using spells to boost Magic is highly limited.

Except for some fucking reason if you're using Fate.
Because the moron who wrote that was a fucking idiot.

>>50864689
>deed, usually using spells to boost Magic is highly limited

Except, you know, for the whole Prime Arcanum.

>>50859670
>Just reinstalled Vtm, am planning to play as a tremere for the first time, any tips lads?

Tremere is pretty easy, actually.

Not being able to raise a physical stat beyond 4 is a joke as a weakness, since your magic powers instakill mooks and deals heavy damage to superpowered foes, so there's literally no reason to ever spend exp on physical stats.

>>50864720
Oh indeed, that single spell which grants a simple dice trick which doesn't practically affect the probability of success at all is a quite potent boost.

Prime can do a lot of shit, but it mostly can't enhance the ability for a Mage to form an imago.

>>50865354
>Prime can do a lot of shit, but it mostly can't enhance the ability for a Mage to form an imago.
Why not just use the precedent of Fate Boons and make a +[Potency] dice on the next [Potency] spell casts?

>>50865468
Because to be perfectly frank, Fate shouldn't be able to do that either.
And I have a long hard talk with any of my players who want to take Fate about the kind of bullshit I will not tolerate from them.

>>50865789
Yeah. Fate boosting magic is bullshit.
That should be purely Prime.

Also, I think it's time for a new Thread, yes?