Does Dawn of War III deserve all the hate its getting?

>>50855273
All? No. Most? Yes.

When you discredit fan criticism as "being silly" you deserve the shit people throw at you.

mostly yes.

Cartoony animations and color palette.
starcraft 2 graphics and scale
silly as fuck and mediocre art direction.
Gabriel angelos looks like a fucking popeye.

>>50855273
No matter the amount of hate it will sell more than the pity 20k units of dawn 2

>>50857795
Dawn of War 2 was number one on US, UK, Aussie, French, German, and Spanish sales charts on release in 09, and though I can't find an exact citation for units sold, I sincerely doubt that adds up to 20k units. Got a source for that figure?

>>50855624
But i thought people wanted to go back to dow 1?

>>50858046
Some people wanted base building and larger armies. What we're getting is a stripped down version of base building and maybe armies that are on par with DoW1. But DoW1 has better mechanics in every field than this abomination of an RTS will have.

Also I sure hope that people like not knowing what the fuck is happening on screen because the devs have kindly decided to overload the game with clarity effects.

The only gimmick that made DoW a secent game was sync-kills, imo.

Taking it way leaves nothing unique about the games.

wish they would make more turn based 40k games for pc.

too old for fast spamming units, plus I like to chill and think about tactics.

>>50858105
>Stripped down base building

Mother fucker did you see the Ork video? Base building is in full swing, stop trying to spread fear about stuff you don't know shit about my dude.

>>50858225
>Base building is in full swing

Literally in the ork's case.

Also you want to know something that's confirmed missing? Defensive. Structures.

>>50855273
no

I played the space marine mission they've shown around at PAX West and it was a lot of fun. feels like the best parts of DoW1 and DoW2 without the horrendous pathfinding issues

>>50858255
>Defensive. Structures.
static defense in an RTS is for retards. are you a retard?

>>50855273
the better question is, does /tg/ hate everything more than /tv/ or /v/ or /vg/? I can't really decide these days but its dam close.

>>50858255
Tell me where that is confirmed, first of all. Besides, as a DoW 1 fan, I don't see the problem with that. The only defense structure in that was a turret you could only build a few of, and was useless late game.

>>50858025
>spit shit that never happened without source
>Ask for source

bro..

>>50858280
Are you really that thin skinned? Do other people's opinions on Deathwing hurt your fanboy heart too?

>>50855273
Not really. The art style is a non-issue, base building is back, and an RTS game that has semi-large armies and base building is literally all I require of an RTS.

>>50855273
Dawn of War 2 was a good game in its own right and they should have done more to emulate that style of gameplay with certain aspects taken from Dawn of War 1 that make it more, not less, complex.

Dawn of War 2's cover system is far better than 1's, as is its core gameplay mechanics (suppression, hard counters etc.). Dawn of War 1 had larger armies and base building that should have been the only two things they should have copied wholesale from the original games. Instead they're making a style of game that, while it worked in the early 2000's, now looks cringeworthy in 2016 when we can implement much more elegant ways of representing core gameplay mechanics.

>>50855273
It deserves some of it

>>50858311
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/dawn-of-war-ii-overruns-global-pc-charts/1100-6205677/
https://www.google.com.au/amp/kotaku.com/5165265/dawn-of-war-ii-tops-global-pc-sales/amp

Now please cite some sales figures.

>>50855273

>asking for predictions about the future

How can anyone say without playing it first?

>>50858184
I like them a lot, but sync-kills has little to no effect on actual gameplay.

They'd be fucking sick, but I'd prefer they make a good game and then tack sync-kills on later as polish. Maybe they will - people have complained a lot about it.

>>50855273
Not all, but their marketing team should be fired for that first video and first information outlet. They practically tricked everyone into thinking DoW3 would be a moba.

>>50855273
Yes.
It fails to do anything to improve upon it's predecessors, and is in many ways a step back.
There is no reason to play it over either DoW 1 or 2.

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>>50858459

>building his opinion based on pre-sale critiques

>>50858290
It was in one of the relic streams. I can't really find it unfortunately. It was something along the lines that the only defenses that you can build is around control points.

But personally? I prefer the Total Annihilation / Supcom & Derivatives - style game. In those defenses are actually good & neede as you can't really run back with your armies.

Still DoW3 has stripped down mechanics everywhere, cover, movement, animation ect. You can't deny that.

>>50858507
Then what exactly, should I build my current opinion on the game on?
My views on the game are based on what the devs have released about it, and nothing they have released me has in any way, impressed me or convinced me that DOW 3 will be a more fun game to play than either DoW 1 or 2.

>>50858566
Protip: Base it on the experience you gain, while playing it you genius.

At least before judging it based on some reviews before you´ve gotten your hands on it.

What are you? A lemming that believes what he reads and sees on JewTube? We all know, that game mechanics can change drastically before launch.

Anyway, just repeat what your sources tell you, retard...

>>50858553
Yes, I do deny that. It's not stripped down, it's DoW1 style, it looks amazingly similar to that game. Through cover, movement, mechanics, and as for animation, it's in pre alpha, so I don't expect them to have all animations done just yet. Stop parroting opinions you didn't come up with yourself to sound smart.

>>50858632
When all the info about the game that has been released makes it look and sound completely unappealing to me, why the hell would I buy it in the first place?

>>50858184
They took those out? Damn

>>50855624
Popeye looks good however.

>>50858655
Not him but just pirate it so you don't waste any money if the game sucks

>>50858674
Might do that, once the game is released.

>>50858280

/tg/ isn't nearly as bad, I think you're just a thin-skinned fuckboy

>>50858655
>buy

Nigga please...

>>50855273
Some. Not all of it, but some of the marketing has turned longtime fans against this sequel, which is a pretty painful thing to see.

>>50858646
Well you really should watch some relic stream & read their q&as then you'll realize that this is it.

>>50858766
Vidya fans are usually a pretty painful thing to see tbph

>>50858715

enjoy denuvo nigga

>>50858799

Not mentioning that this shit got outmaneuvered a long time ago, but keep on crying and paying, bitchass...

>>50858270
>clogging up choke points with cheap static defences and effectively keep the enemy off huge swathes of the map while you focus your attention and ressources elsewhere
>retarded

In a lot of RTS game, having Mobile units performing as cost effectively as static defenses will require some level of micromanagement.

Static defences are the shit.

>>50858789
C'mon dude if you have that little to say then just admit that you didn't research your shit and are just parroting opinions. This is a sequel to DoW1, which is what me and a lot of other people wanted. You're just like all the people on /v/ who want to bandwagon hate a game for the sake of being contrarian.

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>>50855273
So far it looks they done a royal fuckup and are fucking it up even more. But we should wait and see, you never know...

I personally would like to see Warhammer 40K done as Wargame: Red Dragon (minus the ships) but GeeDub will never do that because that would be a better version of their tabletop game...

>>50858872
Why are you unimpressed, anon?

>>50858280
No, /tg/ will never ever be as shit as /tv/. I regret every time I went there to talk about Star wars.

>>50858255
>Also you want to know something that's confirmed missing? Defensive. Structures.

Waaagh banners are in you mongoloid ape.
They shoot at stuff.

>Eldar and Space Marines don't play tower defense.
Boo fucking hoo. Next you're going to complain about Tyranids being numerous.
Fucking retard.

>>50858853
Are you blackshirt IDF for GW IP? I know we have more than one blackshirt on /tg/ and I've seen some extremely defensive posters for 40k related games. Your /v/ comparison is piss poor if not outright pathetic.

>>50858190
Legend says that Relic's prototype mimicked the tabletop very closely. GW didn't like that so we ended up with this

>>50858917
>pisspoor
My dude, it's spot on. When we first started getting threads for this, I was excited, and /v/ was in full lets fuck this game up mode. Now that cancer has spread to /tg/, where no one is examining it, and just parroting shit like 'STAR CRAFT 2, THE ANIMATIONS, BASE BUILDING IS SHIT, WE WANTED IT TO BE ANOTHER CALL OF HEROES CLONE!"

>>50858917
> other, more realistic opinion
> has to be a conspiracy

Enjoy your ´tism, boy

>>50858955
Post without green text next time

>>50858916
>Waaagh banners
Well I guess it's now my turn to as for sauce on that?

>space marines don't play tower defense

Ever heard of the Imperial Fists? They are famous for being awesome at destroying & manning defenses.

>>50858948
Well, I was mildly excited at first but dumb animations, visuals and focus on big huge awesome imperial knight to push more sales killed it fast. I haven't seen anything to sustain my initial enthusiasm so far.

>>50858255
>Defensive. Structures.

Blood Ravens call down defensive structures, you're fucking dumb.

>>50859008
You talk about the knight as though super units that received lots of focus and won battles didn't exist in DoW1, or even 2 for that matter. Baneblades, Avatars of Kain, Greater Daemons, c'mon dude.

>>50859119
They weren't pushed as much. They required lots of resources and time to built. Games were often decided before they appeared on the field.

But hey kids look how this awesome giant mecha shoots down crowds of dumb Eldar, go buy real model in the nearest GW™ store.

>>50858646
>it looks amazingly similar to that game
...what?
doesnt even remotely look similar.

if anything it still looks similar to dow2 ,especially the orks look pretty much the same

>>50858553
We've never had any Warhammer 40k game with Supcom-type defenses.

>>50859229
Unfortunately for those like me, you're right.

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>>50858985
>Well I guess it's now my turn to as for sauce on that?

Ork reveal trailer write-ups.
Also can be seen in the video itself, left of the Ork base.
A big face on the tower, gretchin with a twin-linked shoota on top.
http://www.pcgamesn.com/dawn-of-war-3/dawn-of-war-3-orkz-reveal

>>50859324
>gretchin
*ork

>>50855273

>no nids

Yes.

Why is Gabriel like 20 feet tall?

>>50859324
Well from the article you linked it's not a defensive structure but a resource one that just happens to have a gun on top of it.

>>50859482
So it's exactly like in DoW1.
Problem?

It's not a listening post turret, you can build as many as you fucking want and wherever the heck you fucking please.
Apart from looking a tiny bit sturdier than its predecessor (which was a tech+pop upgrader structure), it's exactly the same.

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>>50855273
No it doesn't. Everyone freaked out because of the first """gameplay""" video, thinking the game would be a MOBA, and some people don't like the artstyle, but the gameplay looks solid and that's what I expect from an RTS

Also: I really like that shooty-klaw it could be a great addition to TT Ork codex.
What should it do? Allow a Boss to grab a character at 12" and force him to duel? Maybe just an attack S-user(x2) from 12" ?

Well I'm gonna give a go, newest gameplay vids are lookin fun.

Not gonna lie though, I'm still gutted about the old voice cast not returning, but that's nostalgia for you.

>>50855273
Hey,guys...what if we actualy wait for it to come out and see ... its a wild concept i know

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>>50860007

>>50859829
I agree.
Personally, I'm looking forward to seeing why Gorgutz is a Bad Moon instead of an Evil Sun now.
I know it isn't important, especially to Gorgutz's character, but I think it might be significant for him, even if it's just to show a slight change in his outlook.

>>50859829
Im guessing it'll probably work like the ol' mag grab from the old blood angels dreadnought

>>50860790
He became less concerned with Speed and more with gubinz? His whole thing was putting his enemies heads on his pole. Thats pretty flash.

>>50860886
Well, one of the game's cinematics has him saying "I want it ALL" so that's probably part of it.
Maybe his fixation with showing off bits of his defeated foes has extended to fortresses, strongholds, planets etc. and that's made him focused on conquest? And yeah, the flashness of showing off your kills would've probably fed the clan change.

He never seemed concerned with speed in DoW1, though. Maybe that's part of the decision from the writers' end - if he doesn't act like an Evil Sun, why make him one?

>>50858184
Wait, there aren't even sync kills?
Jesus, I thought it couldn't get worse.

>>50858672
his armor looks great but his face looks awful, he needs that bionic eye thingy, otherwise he is fucking popeye.

>>50858225
the ork buildings looked like they came out of a cartoon, their whole thing looks cartooney and out of SC2, you just cant compare it to DOW 1/2 art direction at all.

>>50858270
you must be the retarded here, such buildings where very important in DOW 1 and they acted a key role.

>>50861245
>the ork buildings looked like they came out of a cartoon,

...they are orks. Orks always looked like they came out of the cartoon adaptation of mad max.

I think it looks pretty fun. The big blobs of shoota boyz and the stomps looked sweet to me. I'm just glad it's moved away from DW2, I didn't like that much at all.

Art style I think is fine, graphics look fine also. Maybe too much explosiony shit going on hard to tell without playing it myself.

Glad dow2 cover system is gone, hope they keep the morale system though. Sync kills, I dunno ... While they were cool and I would defo prefer they were included it's not mandatory i don't think. Wait and see, never know with modern vidya anymore. I don't get my hopes up about anything anymore.

>>50860007
Exactly.
Why worry about it now, when it can be perfectly FUBAR later!

>>50855273
Yes. Because it forces them to actually think about what they're doing. If they have intelligent people in charge, they'll be able to pick out the good criticisms from the bad. Speaking of which...

>>50855624
>Cartoony animations and color palette.
I honestly think relic is spreading this argument as part of a marketing campaign to make most criticisms of the game appear retarded by association.

>>50857795
It'll sell more than Dawn of War 2 for the following reasons:

1. It will not have Games for Windows Live forced down everyone's throats
2. It will actually run on people's computers, as opposed to GFWL not working correctly, preventing them from playing the game and causing people to refund
3. They haven't yet run a beta and then promptly ignored and banned betatesters for criticizing gameplay or design choices
4. Nor have they yet implemented sweeping game-breaking balance changes literally the day before going gold

Dawn of War 2 failed because Relic was staffed by incompetents. It's very likely the current staff at relic are very different from the group that did Dawn of War 2. We'll see how it goes.

>>50859829
All I want from DoW 3 is decent RTT gameplay where map control matters and there's no such thing as turtling or autism forts.

Fuck the RTS peasants that want to sit in a base all day.

>>50859324
That's a Deff dread.

>>50861786
No decent RTS player turtles, in any RTS that's actually worth playing.

>>50863273
I think what he wants is an actual lore accurate scenario, where "base building" is second to the forces moving out, taking parts of the terrain and such.

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>>50855273
What about Space Marines proportions? I know a lot of people couldn't stand them. Opinions?

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>>50858280
/tg/ is just tsundere towards the things it loves.

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>>50865110
They're closer to actual tall human proportions, but Space Marines were supposed to be horrendously bulky super-humans.

>>50865175

thats not the point, everithing about how sm is supposed to look is absurdly stylised, anatomy has no meaning or baring on it, but the main goal, even with the old beakies, was usualy to make them look bulky, rounded and 'heavy', you know like, heroic high-testosterone look

this new slender crap looks like theyre wearing tights or something

>>50865110
It's true scale rather than heroic scale. I think it was just for the cinematic trailer anyway.

they do look like dyel marines though, they took it way too fucking far.

>>50865243
And then there's this sperg.

>>50865110

Properly proportioned space marines always look so weird. I think my eyes have gone retarded from being accustomed to the completely unproportional miniatures.

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>>50860850
don't know about it and can't find any info either (my google-fu may be weaker than I thought)
care to elaborate?

>>50859443
the official reason is bionics. He lost two legs and an arm on a lava planet pic related
Another reason used by Relic is that it makes him more noticeable on the battlefield. But I think his skin is distinctive enough and they could tune down his height a little bit, if only to appease the worst autists a bit

Looks bad and probably plays like a dumbed down version of DoW I. Not what people wanted at all. Not to mention the devs should all be shot for the bullshit they spew
>we barely improved the graphics because we want it to be more accesible, but at the same time we cranked up particle effects
>obviously the different silhouttes and squad markers are not enough to differiantate between units, we added retarded, but unique walking animations to each unit because that is how most players recognize units, by their walking animations (also ignore the fact that every little movement for some reason produces particle trails or explosions that cover the screen and obscure the units)
>Angelos is doing backflips and twirling his hammer because 40k lore is retarded haha, but we chose this horrible color pallete because it's 100% lore accurate
>one of the reasons the retreat button has been removed is because SM retreating is retarded in the lore, oh and every Eldar unit now has a personal magic shield while lascanons fire a continious beam
>we put great care in bringing the units to life and all, that's why the heroes are prancing around like weeb shit while other units are lifeless blobs where the only animation is their gun slightly shaking
>oh you can't criticize the artstyle we've shown in the first gameplay reveal, it only looks retarded because it's an ice level

>>50858184
>squad based combat system.
>different weapon loadouts for squads.
yeah. small potatoes compared to sync kills.

>CoH2 player goes to relic for casting their tourney.
>ask him on chat on how the game is shaping up to be.
>says that it's surprisingly like CoH2 in the good ways.
well fuck.

>>50858838
I don't see the total warhammer torrents.

>3 races

They deserve all shittalk. Seriously, they could at least make chapters/dark eldars via reskin and minor changes. But nope, better copy Starcraft and eventually jew with DLC.

>>50859208
you need to collect a lot of resources to build them in the first place. Did you not see the actual gameplay?

I want to cum inside Solaria so she can carry on her noble lineage!

>>50859829
I remember someone shitposted on /v/ that the game was going to be a MOBA and every retard bought it.
Now they have decided the game is a MOBA because it has heroes.

>>50866918
Do you not now that the game comes with an army painter?
You get all the free skins you want but I suppose paying for a "dark eldar reskin" is more to your taste.

>>50866947
I mean if they could add some choices to reskin, even small like coh2 generals could work as marine chapters.

40k with 3 races is a joke

>>50866969
DoW1 and 2 started with 4 races each. and in the case of DoW2 it wasn't even revealed until the last moment.

Most of the complaints seem to be from people who bought SS on steam sale and decided that they know all about how relic made the games in the first place.

Oh btw, please play elite mod, we have hold fire now.

>>50866969
So, the army painter that comes with different space marine chapters in the base game?

>>50858872
They seem to have tried to take the best parts of both 1+2 but came out with a subpar product.

I think they shold have made 2 games one like dow1 and the second like dow2.

>>50855315
This. So much of this.

>>50866814
>Not what people wanted at all.
No, fuck you. The gameplay I see looks good

>we barely improved the graphics because we want it to be more accesible, but at the same time we cranked up particle effects
retard told them it wasn't flashy enough, and they listend to them. Hopefully now that every one say that it is too flashy they'll change it

>obviously the different silhouttes and squad markers are not enough to differiantate between units, we added retarded, but unique walking animations to each unit because that is how most players recognize units, by their walking animations (also ignore the fact that every little movement for some reason produces particle trails or explosions that cover the screen and obscure the units)
True

>Angelos is doing backflips and twirling his hammer because 40k lore is retarded haha, but we chose this horrible color pallete because it's 100% lore accurate
I don't find the color palette to be horrible at all. Angelos backflipping is retarded though

>>50866814
>>50867056
>one of the reasons the retreat button has been removed is because SM retreating is retarded in the lore, oh and every Eldar unit now has a personal magic shield while lascanons fire a continious beam
The retreat system was just silly, and everyone shitted on it when DoW II came out. It's a fucking panic button that makes you faster AND more resistant to damage, which makes no sense.
The "Eldar shield" is supposed to represent battle focus. While they keep their focus, they can dodge attacks well, and after that they have wet paper armor so they die by dozens. It's a good way to make Eldar hit&run tactics work.

>we put great care in bringing the units to life and all, that's why the heroes are prancing around like weeb shit while other units are lifeless blobs where the only animation is their gun slightly shaking
True, animations aren't good at the moment (though it seems better with the lattest video).

>oh you can't criticize the artstyle we've shown in the first gameplay reveal, it only looks retarded because it's an ice level
They never said that. People said that it looked much better when it was not in an ice level, and that Relic made a bad decision showing this level first. Which is true

>>50867070
>it makes you more resistant to damage
you take extra melee damage and lose your map presence. Losing your entire army means your have lost your field presence for a minute.

Thats around 60+ victory points in a game where your average victory points are 500.

Look at some DoW2 games please.

I agree with everything else you said.

>>50866918
>via reskin and minor changes

"They could just push out a piece of shit, why don't they do it?"
Really? That's your argument?

They want to spend enough time witch each faction to give them the attention they deserve and you shit-talk them for not making crappy "Red with spikes" reskins for Chaos, "Edgy and purple" reskin for DEldar or, heck, "Except they're blue!" reskin for Ultrasmurfs.

>>50867092
I know it, I played the game (not much in multiplayer I admit). It still makes no sense. If anything, a bullet in your back should be more efficient at killing you, not less

>>50855273
well it brought back base building, the cancer of RTS, so it's not off to a good start.

I didn't care for the "herohammer" of DOW 2 either, but I liked that there was little management other than calling in reinforcements. This is 40k, they never talk about how they set up a little base all the damn time and then pushed the attack, this is the setting of mass drops and grueling campaigns. If I wanted to spend over half the match managing nose picking fucksticks building a base I'll play star craft.

It's most egregious with 40k in my eyes just because it lashes so heavily with the lore. I don't get why people are excited to see it back. I'd much rather see "pre deployed" armies like codename panzers or blitzkrieg, or even DoW 2's style of getting reinforcements dropped in from landing pads as you earn requisition and complete objectives. Made more sense and let's you spend more time on actual tactics fighting the other guy.

I know everyone is gonna disagree and that's fine, I'm just really sick of how rarely strategy games actively try to break from the Warcraft/StarCraft/command and conquer style base building. They all end up feeling samey and contrived.

>>50867138
you really should play more.
The retreat mechanic is so that you don't lose your veteran men outright. It punishes you by losing you map control and makes you more vulnerable to players who have kept melee units in ambush; Which is why banshees always have remained popular in the meta. You get a good melee unit that excels at chasing units.

>>50867522
You're not alone fampai, I said the exact same in the early /v/ threads and even before the reveal.

dont know you all, but all i wanted is DoW 2 with some light basebuilding
some resorces to manage, making a few troops on site and all that

>>50867522
DoW2 did just that and got panned for it.
Everyone says bring back base building and guess what relic does?

>>50867544
I understand the reasons for and the appeal of the mechanic, but I still find that units rushing to your base is silly. You could do the same on every RTS with little to no micro (just a click on the minimap), and even try and avoid those Banshees
That's the only DoW II mechanic I don't like btw

>>50867522
>>50867555
There's no strategy without logistics, and bases represent the logistics (associated with the ressources; you need your ressources to develop your means of production). What you ask for isn't a strategy game but a tactics game. Not saying this is bad, though, and DoW II proves it imo.
If anything, base building implies more choices during the game (should I get tanks or elite infantry to counter what the enemy units?). It gives a greater importance to scouting and knowing who and where your enemy is too

>>50867753
other games were based on destroying the enemy base, not on territory control. Starcraft games end if someone does a cheesy rush with 3 barracks reaper and fucks your shit up.
CoH and DoW2 didn't work like that. They were all about winning based on victory point control and keeping your men alive.
Good players rarely retreated their units after tier 2, preferring to use APCs to reinforce them all the field.

Dawn of war 2 also had choices throughout it''s techtree. You could get light vehicles to support your t1 infantry build or get AT weaponry to take out vehicles.

>>50867772
>other games were based on destroying the enemy base, not on territory control.
Not true for DoW I, but I agree on the sentiment that territory control is more interesting than "destroy everything" except in a "horde mod" versus AI

Starcraft games end if someone does a cheesy rush with 3 barracks reaper and fucks your shit up.

>Dawn of war 2 also had choices throughout it''s techtree. You could get light vehicles to support your t1 infantry build or get AT weaponry to take out vehicles.
You get the exact same choice in a game with base building, except there's even more choice (should you place your building on the frontline to get your troops directly in the fray and better protect that strategic point, or in your base so the risk of it being destroyed is less important?)

>>50867753

>>50867899 cont.
I shat it up and hit "post" without any proofreading. Sorry anon, I was distracted by family.

I just wanted to add that I agree with everything else you said

Also, merry Christmas to all of you, faggots.

Just give me DoW1 with DoW2 graphics and combat mechanics.

>>50867522
>well it brought back base building, the cancer of RTS, so it's not off to a good start.
You should have asked the Klaus for better taste, anon.

We need something new for 40k games

No Strategy games

No more fucking space hulk

>>50868326

Space marine was a good change of pace

oh wait ded :D

>>50855273
>40K
>Built on any RTS engine and style other than Supreme Commander

I found the problem.

See you in FAF boiz

>>50868352
But eternal crusade resurrected it in form of an MMO open world shooter!

Oh wait no it didn't. It's a piece of crap...

>>50855273
What do you guys say we wait until it comes out before we pass judgement on it.

>>50868414
T H I S
H
I
S

>>50868326
We need a game where you play as a fucking rogue trader.
And I mean fucking ROGUE. As in hiring DEldar and Orks type rogue.
Like mass effect, but swap the gay shit with heretical shit.

>>50868569
>And I mean fucking ROGUE. As in hiring DEldar and Orks type rogue.

So, a rogue trader.

>>50868569
A (proper) RPG as a rogue trader or inquisitorial agent would be awesome. Even if it's one of those shadowrun-style isometric RPGs.

I'm honestly surprised that that avenue has not been tapped yet.

>>50868594

People barely know what a rouge trader is

>>50868594
Most people don't know anything from 40k other than Space Marmemes, and GW seems unconcerned by that.
So the odds of it ever happening are zero.

>>50868594

Outside of /tg/ people barely know 40k and only a few memes. Mostly Space marines and how shit IG are and all that shit.


I mean ill be honest I thought since I got into 40k at DoW 2 from the cinematic trailer

>Most Space marines were robots
>Eldar were space witches and all female
>Thought all Space marines were Blood Ravens

Kinda embarrassing when you go to a GW and tell someone his Blood Ravens were cool only to find out those are Blood Angels.

>>50860790

Maybe the reason he is using red color is actually more of tribe color than klan color.

>>50868326
Battlefleet Gothic was great. I hope they come out with more races.

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>>50868326
Guardsman simulator, where you have to complete an objective in x amounts of guardsman lives. Everytime you die you take control of another guardsman nereby.

Call it Kreig sims and have missions where you need to be under a casualty rate %

>>50868632
>>50868667
>>50868704
If it's a good game people will like it. It's a win win in that case.

But that depends on the game being good and GW's handling of the IP isn't exactly promising for that so yeah...

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>>50868928

.....

No offense but I really hate this idea and will never get why people still recommend it.

>>50858838
please stop false flagging

I'll buy it for the online and because I'm a cuck for dawn of war
I think it's best to wait until they're closer to release date

>>50858917
The official DOW3 forums and the forum for a DOW2 mod called "Elite Mod" have a couple of notorious GWIDF posters. Fucking brainwashed lunatics who have relic/GW's cock buried so far up their ass only King Arthur could remove it.

>>50869089
>guy says he wanted a sequel to DoW1
>this means he is a GW shill
eric.

>>50868945

Battlefield 1 did this, basically

>>50869238
In the intro section and it was also scripted.

If the entire game would have worked like that (easy to die and whenever you died you'd take over another soldier) then it'd have been an awesome campaign.

But nah, they went with the bog-standard invincible super soldiers. Literally in one mission. They wouldn't even have had to change most of the story. Just replace I, with we and they when referring to the player characters.

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>>50858632
Anon is attempting to discern whether or not to obtain the game to ever have the play experience to begin with.

>JewTube

Alright AlexJones, but are you sure there isn't a bit of self hatred going on? Is that why you've already pre-ordered, and further why you must get defensive about a game you didn't have any hand in creating?

>>50863273
Any game with actual artillery disagrees.

Deserved Criticism
>Wonky animations, specially marines
>boring looking, DoW 1 style firefights
>shit that looks like it comes out of BL (gabe flipping twirling the hammer about and being cyborg hueg is fine to me along with the jumping, just flipping doesn't make sense

Undeserved Criticism
>Literally anything featuring the word "moba" (WC3 had differing heroes)
>Color palette is subjective, I quite like it. Grimdark doesn't literally mean dark. A rainbow can provide quite the contrast against the bleak war
>bitching about only 3 factions when relic always hides this shit
Anything i'm missing?

>>50869349
the game isn't out yet.
At least people that I personally know and are rts players have played it at pax and told it was a solid RTS with good ideas with the LoS system.

>>50869435
>color pallete
It's not about the colors, but the art style. Just look at the Emperor's Children or hell, most of the Eldar, Tau and SoB units in DoW I and II. They had some really bright colors, but the artstyle made it fit completely.
All colors in DoW III look way off.

>>50869491
How so? Cause I do not notice it in any of the recent gameplay vids compared to DoW 2.

>>50869330
And multiplayer

>>50861786
>>50863273
>not allowing your opponent to skirmish with you at you bases then unleashing wave after wave of destruction to his base with artillery while you push forward with elite troops you saved resources on instead of throwing mooks at him to die

Not every RTS is Starcraft

>>50855273
Game looks like absolute shit.

So yes.

>>50869541
I love games with real artillery.
Starcraft babbies who go on about how worthless basebuilding is cannot deal with it.

>>50861361
You have absolute plebeian tastes.

>>50869601
the only difference is all those games combined have a fraction of the players that starcraft has.

>>50869670
kek.
If dawn of war 1 came out in the current year, people would say it was shit because you had a cover system, sync kills and no mining/resource gathering system.

>>50869677
Plebs hate artillery. Makes sense, as it is the natural predator of unwashed masses.

>>50869727
>us patricans with our artillery huh.
If your games weren't so shit maybe people would play them right?

>>50869735
>/v/ tier population contest arguments
Don't worry about us, we have enough players. It's always fun when plebs try to play and get ruined by the learning curve, though.

>>50869771
>we have all the players, in fact we actually don't need anymore!
and people wonder why RTSes flounder.

Guess what the other mostly played RTS apart from starcraft is.
Its another relic game.

>>50869795
See
>>50869771

>>50869831
so you and all your two imaginary friends and your supcom AI are relic's targeted market?
well shit.

>>50869705

By "people" you mean "starcraft autists" who have been playing the same fucking game for nearly 20 years now, and whose sequel didn't dare to change or improve ANYTHING about the core gameplay, and only improved the UI, because Blizzard knew that those E-sports loving braindead slugs would throw a shitfit if their "perfect game" was changed one bit.
And they STILL threw a bitchfit, when SC2 was released. Most of them just wanted BW with better, up to date graphics.

Pandering to E-sports fans/Starcraft autists is retarded and pointless, because those mongoloids are convinced of the perfection of their bare bones game because of it's "balance" and will never switch or even try another game series, because unless it isn't starcraft, they cannot get their dicks hard over "muh competitive gaming!"

>>50869846
I think you are confused and cannot detect paralell conversations, anon.

>>50869677
It doesn't have to be massively popular to be a good RTS. I'm not hating on your game, I play it with pals all the time, it's just not the be all end all of the genre. RTS games can be very different from each other bro.

>>50869795
>and people wonder why RTSes flounder.
>look at my factually incorrect opinion

The other guy was right, you spend too much time on /v/. RTS is doing fine, not many AAA blockbusters, but the genre is far from dead and the games made for it are doing well. Also I wasn't aware relic made Age of Empires.

>>50869876
>age of empires
ah yes, the game that comes out with an expansion every quarter and then dies down again.

>rts is doing fine
Grey goo and Deserts of kharak floundered hard. 8bit armies is a fucking joke.
The RTS market is pretty much on the verge of dying off.

>>50861361
Literally the worst opinion I've heard

>>50869912
Stop bein a panicky pecker, anon.
RTS is doin' just fine.

>not just making game based on Dawn of War 2 with Dawn of War 1s scale

literally the simplest recipe for success.

>>50869912
Grey Goo and Deserts of Kharak were both not that good and neither excelled at what other RTS games did. Cossacks 3 did well and so did Offworld Trading Company. You have to remember these games are not huge AAA markets with a few exceptions. The golden age of RTS games is over, but that doesn't mean that they have to go quietly into the night because of it.

Also ya, Age of Empires. The game that has players year-round and has millions of owners. You know, the other most played RTS other than starcraft. I like Stronghold Crusader better though, I mean they both do different things, but it's a preference deal.

>>50869998
The biggest problem with rtses is graphical fetishization.
Fuck what units look like, remove popcap.

>>50870008
Are the new strongholds any good?
For some reason they run like shit on my beefy computer. But I liked the old ones.

>>50870027
Stronghold 3 was pretty bad. They're making a new one though, ideally they'll learn but Firefly is not the brightest of companies.

>>50868928
Running With Rifles

>>50855273
Dawn of War is getting hate?
it looks kick ass desu

>>50858270
>static d is for retards
someone never played supreme commander

>>50870010
Yeah, the great graphics of today are the mediocre of tomorrow. I want larger scales and smooth performances.

>>50870356
But anon, if we increase scales the apm micromanagers will die of heart attacks.

>>50869916
care to elaborate and argument?

>>50869998
DoW II cover system wouldn't work well with DoW I's scale. The number of covers on the map would be enormous, and the micro needed to put all your units in cover would be insane (and so we would be back with a system were the gook with the most efficient use of his tentacles win the battles).
Plus the retreat system made no sense IMO.

I agree that DoW II is a wonderful game (and DoW I is too), but they had reasons to reduce the scale

>>50870010
The CnC games never had a popcap, didn't help them much helas

>>50870224
Yeah. I think some of the most common complaints have been rehashed in this very thread actually: artstyle/graphix too cartoony/not grimdark enough, wacky animations, silly and lore-breaking skills (backflip 5 meters in the air with a Terminator armor). Some people also regret that the game is not a rehash of DoW1/DoW2/a mix of both. I think no one said "game is a MOBA" this time though but that's maybe because fa/tg/uys are more level-headed than /v/tards and actually watch what the game looks like before spouting memes

also, bump for answer
>>50859829
>>50860850

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>>50868326

>>50868326
Guess what?
The guys who made space hulk wanted to do an ork biking game instead, but gw vetoed it and forced the hulk.

Whick sucks, because ork racing is a liscence to print money.

>>50870851
>ork racing is a liscence to print money
Unfortunately, no, it's not. I'm almost sure only half of /tg/ would play it, while the other half would go "REEEEEEEEE NOT GRIMDARK", and normies would either not care or ask where the Space Marines are

>>50869998
>not just making game based on Dawn of War 2 with Dawn of War 1s scale

Dude, they were making concepts of this for half a decade now.
Do you really think if such an utterly primitive idea worked, they wouldn't have gone with it?

They're not making up new systems just to fuck with their sales numbers and player base you know.
Really now, explaining that didn't work out at all has been like half the stuff they were doing when answering fan questions for months after the first gameplay video.

There are only two types of people who play RTS games.

There are people who want to build a line of infantry/guns/etc and sit while the army does its thing and play relatively passively. See Dawn of war 1's giant deathball armies and godawful path finding.

There are people who want to micro the fuck out of stuff to get a good concave/flank/maximize abilities and take an active participation in the fight.

From what (VERY) little I've seen of multiplayer you will be getting the second one. If you played COH/COH2 then you are going to be pretty well at home.

If you are one of those people who prefer a more "cinematic experience" in their game you are also going to be sorely disappointed by the multiplayer aspect as it is now. It is looking like it will be very competitive, closer to Warcraft 3 than it is to Starcraft 2 in the early game with the late game becoming a choice between large macro fights or small micro fights depending on what you're doing faction wise.

>>50871848
Ive always fantasized about truly large scale rtses that were so big effectivemicro was impossible, along with units smart enough to micro themselves.
I think better ai for troops should be an upgrade tree alongside arms and type.

Any kind of micro focused rts gameplay makes me sad, with these dreams in mind. Why even make an rts? Why not a tight smallscale tactics game if you want micro?
Ill never know.

>>50871924
>Any kind of micro focused rts gameplay makes me sad, with these dreams in mind. Why even make an rts?

I think you're missing the point of what makes RTS fun to play.
It's mostly about playing with your toys, except with those toys actually moving and shooting and all that.
The genre exists to fill the same niche as wargames (not to stare at fancy miniatures like most miniature collectors do but to play out battles with them on an imaginary battlefield).

That's the main appeal of the genre.
The competition and all that comes secondary and is the main point for a minority of people.

If it was about actually strategizing, the ideal game would be something like Europa Universalis where you can watch all the eye-candy of armies clashing together to fill in the blank between staring at a painting of a map and actually commandeering a nation o glory.

>>50872042
Yeah, I basically want a real time 4x game with smart units and a heavy focus on logistics and strategy.
Most rtses feel morel ike smallscale skirmish simulators to me, trying to act like they are not.

>>50872042
I play a lot of RTS games, and I wouldn't mind a game that has Darkest Hour level depth with CoH type battles going on the whole time if you zoom in far enough.It's not really realistic though.

Also, a good number of RTS games require strategy beyond ground level tactics. The Cossacks series, Sins of a Solar Empire, offworld trading company to name three.

>>50872145
I'll jump in the way back machine to go with the Homeworld Series, supreme commander, total annihilation sort of games. I enjoyed the slower pace and the heavy emphasis on manuever/strategy rather than clicky clickity click but they had their downsides too.

I enjoyed these games and I enjoy Starcraft 2 but the former are 100% more "dad games" than the latter and have a very specific niche.

I enjoy a long match of Homeworld in the same way I enjoy a game of risk but realistically if I have an hour I'm going to get in a couple matches of SC2 just based on where my life is.

>>50869705
>If dawn of war 1 came out in the current year, people would say it was shit because you had a cover system, sync kills and no mining/resource gathering system.

Except that's exactly what people are complaining about it NOT having

>>50872202
I just play RTS games during work.

>>50871924
I think that's what Ashes of the Syndicate is trying to do. No idea if they've been successful since the game is 44 dollars.

>>50872326
HEATHEN! BURN THE INCOMPETENT!

>>50872371
I like rtses and have never heard of it, so on that metric it will fail.
Ill still check it the fuck out now, though.

>>50855273
No. Let it be released first.

>>50871161

Literally who does that

>>50865110
That's not gameplay, anon. It's a trailer, not made by Relic. Your argument is invalid.

>>50855273
Idunno mang, I'm gonna wait until the game's out before I commit to any form of shitposting.

>>50855273
>Dawn of War III
wow I had no idea they were making a dawn of war three but when I looked it up the images looked terrible, maybe it plays well but I can't see myself not at least being annoyed by how visually awful it is, wtf happened to relic studios?

>>50872415
nope plenty of game play, looks like shit dawn of war 1 with 'enhanced' graphics

>>50872524
>wtf happened to relic studios?

THQ went bankrupt and relic got bought by Sega.

>>50872524
>wtf happened to relic studios
bankruptcy

>>50872560
>>50872617
Holy shit for real? Did they immediately replace the staff with mentally deranged baboons?

>>50872414
Well, maybe "half" is a bit much, but I'm pretty sure these guys describing the game as "cartoony" would complain
>>50855624
>>50861245
>>50866814
There seems to be far less of those on /tg/ than on /v/ though thank God-Emprah. See what this anon says >>50868704 for the bit on normies' opinion

>>50872415
I didn't complain about it, it was just a honest question. Personnally, it doesn't bother me much. It was kind of a bait - I wanted to see if this topic was as hot as some people said. You passed the test.

>>50865243
Nigga. The power armor they have is pretty much a suit tank. Why even bother powering it if you aren't going to double down on the armor part and have an internal Control system.

These guys are wearing the eequivalent of metal bedsheets.

>>50871161
Like you wouldn't buy MariOrk Ramshackle Racing.

You could have multiplayer, a story mode where you race to objectives while blowing shit up ending in Boss Fights against enemy armour. After defeating them, you could also loot them for powerups. Kill combos and big explosions can give you WAAAAAUGH charges to do special attacks like Call in Da Boyz to back you up, or heal your vehicle, or Double Your Dakka.

You could even have a Blood Ball style mini game called Bike Ball where you drive around Bikes and Trikes for fighting and use Trukks and try to plant bombs on the enemy Gargant or equivalent and take it down.

Shit writes itself.

>>50872992
>Like you wouldn't buy MariOrk Ramshackle Racing.
I've played more Mad Max than Mario Cart.

>>50872992
>MariOrk Ramshackle Racing
>not Carmorkgeddon

>>50872992
>Boss fight against the White Scars.
Well, that is something.

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this is fucking popeye!

>>50874386

How many years after retribution is this?

>>50855315
FPBP. Seriously though, this is exactly it.

>>50872992
>Twisted Metal: 40k
>Everyone is fighting to get to Kairos Fateweaver
>half the entries are orks

>>50874398
who knows but I like his face more on the retribution cinematic, right now it's a fucking caricature.

The art director sucks giant balls.

>>50865253
>Sperg
Making perfectly reasonable criticism is now sperging, nice meme faggot.

>>50855624
>Gabriel angelos looks like a fucking popeye.
The only thing i dislike.
the rest just make the game mediocre

>>50870008
>cossacks 3
which was a buggy mess.
>offworld trading company
a literal who that is economics simulator.
>AoE has millions of owners
and is maintained by a skeleton crew of a dozen artwork blokes who make cheap DLC for it and rides on nostalgia.
The only reason people are playing it now is because they launched a new DLC for it.

>>50872277
People are complaining that it looks like starcraft and doesn't have flashy shit.
Relic did their homework. People that regularly play the game AKA comp players grow tired of it soon enough.
I can see why they did that, and honestly from a MP player's views, sync kills being absent makes sense.

>>50875400
did you not see the part where he got smashed by giant demon of khorne?

>>50869541
This doesn't work in any game unless you're just fighting ai.

>>50870008
>The golden age of RTS games is over

Literally only because Blizzard failed to link the first flame. Instead they instead left Starcraft 2 an unbalanced mess (to this day, two expansion packs and 6+ years later) and now an age of darkness is upon us where shitty indie games and slow-ass FPS's will rule.

>>50877572
SC2 is far more balanced than broowar ever was.
When you have to balance your game by adding ramps everywhere and say that it is balanced due to "map design" you know you done fucked up.

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>>50855273
DOW2 MARINES LOOKED SO BAD ASS!!!!

WHY DID THEY MAKE THEM LOOK LIKE BUZZ LIGHTYEAR NOW!!!!!!!!

>>50877594

I liked the micro and base building involved with ramps.

And by base building I meant I played Terran and depot/bunkered off my ramps and floated my buildings away when in danger.

>>50877594
Brood War is balanced by maps (god bless Kespa) and the ludicrously high skill ceiling. Yet they fumbled the ball with SC2 and after six years of imba it's dead.

>>50877666
I keep hearing how it's dead and yet nationwars had more viewers than ASL.
It's almost as if people who enjoy SC2 don't care about BW while BWfags constantly say how much SC2 is dead.

>>50877504

>Relic did their homework. People that regularly play the game AKA comp players grow tired of it soon enough.
>Relic gave the finger to the primary demographic for the game
>Relic instead wants to take Blizzard's core players instead

This strategy has never worked for any company of any size ever. Every successful video game in any niche has to grow its own core base first. Relic survived the rejection of the DoW1 base of DoW2 because DoW1 was still being supported and still has functional online.

>>50878014

Its dead in the context of SC2 once commanding the attention of all RTS fans everywhere and being hailed as the great savior of the genre. Now its just there like WoW arena is just there.

>>50877564
>he's never played SupCom
You poor bastard.

>>50878034
Dawn of war wasn't being supported at that time.
DoW2 stopped being supported after CoH2 came out.
It's gonna be the same with coh2.

>they left their primary audience
their primary audience who screamed that they wanted base building, and larger scale battles.
Which relic is giving to them.

>>50878179
>Dawn of war wasn't being supported at that time.

Online functionality is the barest sign of support. When Gamespy was going tits up, Relic or whoever was tasked with supporting this game on life support made sure it still had online functionality which lasts to this day. Many other AAA games in the last few years don't even get that much.

>DoW2 stopped being supported after CoH2 came out.

Pretending Last Stand doesn't count as part of DoW2, huh?

>It's gonna be the same with coh2.

CoH2 already suffered a premature death because awful reviews and an unoptimized sequel people didn't really ask for, not because it was 'on purpose'.

>their primary audience who screamed that they wanted base building, and larger scale battles.
>Which relic is giving to them.

In smaller portions which don't even resemble the original product.

>>50878046
>its just there
and yet SC2 is head and shoulders above every other RTS in twitch, youtube, tournament scene, and even co operative multiplayer.

>>50878218
>last stand
was there from the first day of Dawn of war 2. Relic decided that their game was finished and just kept a skeleton crew on it to push out 1 or 2 commanders
>Coh2 is dead
and yet more people play it than supcom FA.
It's kinda funny when people say that CoH2 is dead and then point to a smaller game with a smaller playerbase as a sign of a successful game

>in smaller portions.
What? Basebuilding is more thought out than it was in Dawn of war 1, with the option of specializing resource points, eldar fleet of foot being tied to their bases and the like.

>>50878226

WoW is as well, what's your point? Blizzard dwarfs everything. Maybe it's RTS that are simply non-existent?

>>50878285
>blizzard dwarfs everything
no, that's bullshit. I don't see overwatch dominating CS:GO or LoL and dota being dominated by HoTS.

Despite what everyone shitposts about SC2 based on the godawful story of Starcraft 2, it is still the most balanced RTS on the market right now and is supported extensively by it's parent company. Relic managed to do the same thing with CoH2 and kept itself afloat despite the butthurt of russians who were angry that the soviets were vicious bastards.

>>50878328

Because Overwatch isn't even in the same genre as those two and also just came out less than half a year ago. It's already dwarfed TF2.

Yes.

Also, Knights for Space Marines. Wtf?

>>50878218
>In smaller portions which don't even resemble the original product.

I loved this one bloke on the forums going on about how the game is smaller scale than DoW1 so the devs put in that ridiculously huge ork army at the end of their reveal.

No one has been BTFO'd quite as hard.

And it's a made up point. The base building is pretty much exactly like that of DoW1 minus the mines no one ever used.

>>50879072
>Also, Knights for Space Marines. Wtf?

>>>/v/

>>50877504
>People are complaining that it looks like starcraft and doesn't have flashy shit.
People complain that there is too much flashy things going on, actually

>>50879072
Knights are independant. You can add them to any Imperial Faction. Space Marines don't really have Titan-like super-units, and they want some in: it seems to be the most logical choice.

>>50879072

Knight ALLIES. Not a marine in a knight.

What else would you give marines on that scale? A Dreadnaught piloting a Dreadnaught-scale Dreadknight?

>>50868414
SupCom 1 right ?

RIGHT ?

>>50878328
>buying the CoH 2 was only disliked by angry Russians meme

Relic really sold you the bridge. CoH 2 had problems at launch and pissed some people with it's micro-transactions. That it lost out on the entire Russian market because they portrayed the soviets as something straight out of a propaganda film is their own problem, I mean, it was actually hammy and over the top with little historical relevancy, but I thought it was fun thematically when Finest Hour did it.

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It's shit. It's going to be shit. It's the worst elements of DOW I (throwing blobs of shit around like a fucking eye-cancer),with the better elements that made DOW I good removed, with an art style so shitty that DOW I reskin mods look fucking better thematically. It looks like mass marketed MOBA bullshit, like some desperate lunge by a dying developer to make a Starcraft 2 clone. If I wanted to play starcraft 2, I'D PLAY FUCKING STARCRAFT 2.

Nevermind that it will be the only DOW game to release with only THREE factions, purposefully gimped itself graphically for no proper fucking reason (abloo abloo toaster PC's can't run it, nerf graphics!").

Why the fuck can't we just get a hardcore 40K RTT with no unit production bullshit? I want balls to the wall difficulty, where if you get hit badly by one artillery blast, you're fucking done. Fuck modern RTS "woops you lost a squad of infantry, but that's just useless fodder that doesn't mean anything!". Everything should be limited. You should feel like you're bleeding with every loss.

This shit isn't 40k, it's populist kiddie 40k bullshit. Not to mention it's going to make more 40k memes, which are all cancerous and should be forcibly stamped out for their cancerous nature.

>>50871924
Literally Wargame Red Dragon. Buy it. It's way better than this shit will turn out.

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FOR SANGUINIUS I MEAN THE UNKNOWN PRIMARCH LOL!!

>>50881398
>purposefully gimped itself graphically for no proper fucking reason
It's so that you can tell what the fuck is going on, that's why everything is so simplified and clean.

They want to court the competitive player market, and the muddy, cluttered mess of the first two games (as glorious as it was) really fucks with your ability to quickly assess situations and do good micro.

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>>50881398
>Why the fuck can't we just get a hardcore 40K RTT with no unit production bullshit?

Anon.
You could just say you preferred DoW2 and wanted a sequel to that one.
No need for lengthy tantrums and monologues.

>>50858839
In DoW 1 turrets were very useful teir 1 until hard counters came out in teir 2. Even then they could still perform a small role as well as give vision to infiltrated units. For example SM turrets could upgrade to missiles which had looong range and give your firing line knock back.

In fact I'd go as far to say against most armies SM turrets were a necessity until 10 mins.

>>50881770
>that's why everything is so simplified and clean.
and yet cant see shit whats goin on because of shitty effects.

>>50877520
did you not see the part where he had awesome bionic implants?

>>50881398
>with the better elements that made DOW I good removed
you mean there's no squad-based combat and the strategic points are gone?

>with an art style so shitty that DOW I reskin mods look fucking better thematically
It's not. You can say you don't like it all you want, but it's thematic

>It looks like mass marketed MOBA bullshit, like some desperate lunge by a dying developer to make a Starcraft 2 clone
Ho, this is bait. Sorry, carry on

>Nevermind that it will be the only DOW game to release with only THREE faction
Someone doesn't remember DoW II. We knew Tyranids were in a few weeks before. Campaign will include 3 races though - which 2 more than vDoW and DoW II.

>Why the fuck can't we just get a hardcore 40K RTT with no unit production bullshit? I want balls to the wall difficulty, where if you get hit badly by one artillery blast, you're fucking done. Fuck modern RTS "woops you lost a squad of infantry, but that's just useless fodder that doesn't mean anything!". Everything should be limited. You should feel like you're bleeding with every loss.
Because it wouldn't sell. Except maybe if they sell it as "the Dark Souls of strategy games" or something

>This shit isn't 40k, it's populist kiddie 40k bullshit
You mean like all 40k games ever?
You mean like 40k, PERIOD?

I'm not saying the game has no flaw - for now most of its animations are shit, no sync-kill is really disappointing, Angelos' backflip is pants-on-head retarded - but it is nowhere near the level of shit you imply

>>50881578
I am giving this (you) only to point out a story in a loot from DoW II that for a moment the Blood Ravens thought they were decended from Sanguinus after a incident where they went berserk in battle, only for be jossed after a Magos Biologis confirmed that there was no blood of Sanguinus on them.

>>50879622
>problems at launch
the problems came with the Western front additions. CoH2 was initially very well optimized.
>>50879252
When I say flashy shit, I mean cool epic animations that break the flow of battle. A sync kill is pretty awesome until your dreadnought then gets targetted by every unit in their army because it became unresponsive.

>>50878750
>it's already dwarfed TF2
which was never marketed as an Esport
Blizzard doesn't do too well in arenas where they face serious competition. SC1 and WC3 won out only because they had their awesome map packs, and by the time SC2 came out nearly every other RTS company was dead and buried. Westwood was gone. Ensemble was gone.

>>50867899
>Starcraft games end if you're too much of a retard to scout and counter the guy doing a cheesy rush with 3 barracks reaper
fixed

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>>50881787
DOW 2 still has unit production. If I lose a squad of space marines, I can always get more. Reinforcements just make things easier.

>It's not. You can say you don't like it all you want, but it's thematic
It's not fucking thematic. 40k is the Grimdark Forty-First Millennium. There are no bright clean things jump-walking like retards around the map. They need to be gritty, unclean, and scarred. Anything else isn't 40k.

>Campaign will include 3 races though - which 2 more than vDoW and DoW II.
Who gives a fuck about campaign, DOW has always had pretty shit campaigns as story goes with only Dark Crusade having a really good one because of the Risk world map. Soulstorm had a chance but fucked it up hard.

>Because it wouldn't sell. Except maybe if they sell it as "the Dark Souls of strategy games" or something
>What is Total War

>You mean like all 40k games ever?
Of course, 40k is such a setting for kids. It just includes a faction that exists purely to rape everything just so they survive, a faction dedicated to the enslavement and slaughter of all life (that will likely ultimately win, making everything pointless), etc?

>
I'm not saying the game has no flaw - for now most of its animations are shit, no sync-kill is really disappointing, Angelos' backflip is pants-on-head retarded - but it is nowhere near the level of shit you imply
It's more of the same basic garbage we've been getting for the past decade that is completely unoriginal, uninspired, and suffocating the industry. DOW 3 isn't special. Nothing is unique about it, it's just going to be a generic-ass RTS with everything that made the first and second game semi unique removed. While also doing nothing new.

>>50879306
Venerable Land Raider.
Full Honour Guard Squad with Storm Shields and Inspiring Banner.
Orbital Bombardment.
Legion of the Damned.
Siege Dreadnought.
Contemptor Relic Dreadnought.

Introduce a little asymmetry, instead of relying on a boring symmetrical design in a franchise which really lives of its diversity.

>>50885331
>It's not fucking thematic. 40k is the Grimdark Forty-First Millennium. There are no bright clean things jump-walking like retards around the map. They need to be gritty, unclean, and scarred. Anything else isn't 40k.
Fucking retard, it can also be baroque and overly decoratedd, overly ornate with lots of metallics, or strange and alien. Your description only applies to a few factions. Hell, it doesn't even apply to all of the Imperial Guard, look at the Mordians or Praetorians.

>>50882558
Games are not sports until they get regulated like sports.

DoW1 was okay but didn't feel like a Warhammer game at all (HAHAHAH, I'm building an army of Space Marines that's FOUR TIMES as big as a strike force because HAHAHAH FUCK LOGIC!), and DoW3 is looking even worse.

The only true 40k game experience was DoW2. And we'll never get that back because nowadays everything has to be StarMOBACraft because fuck working from source material into game. Instead just make a game and then force the source material to fit the game.

>>50885949
>everything has to be StarMOBACraft

I didn't play much of DoW 2, but didn't it actually have a moba hoard mode in the multiplayer. Where you controlled only the hero units.

>>50855273

No because nobody has even played it yet. But I can understand why people hate it, what we've seen so far looks awful.

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>play Dawn of War 1
>love it
>play Dawn of War 2
>hate it

>Dawn of War 3 looks like 1
>love it, don't get the hate

>>50885949
DoW2 gameplay versus humans was boring as shit.
Had they fixed that and slightly increased unit size across the board it would have been almost perfect.

>>50886389
The PvP was fucking intense, I don't know why people hate on it so much. Losing a single squad was a pretty big hit to your forces which required a lot of micro management combined with the high cost/low resources it made for really competitive gameplay.

>>50878051
They're necessary in supcom but even then if you aren't aggressive you'll lose.

Trying to make a coherent game out of it would be a nightmare, but it would be amazing if someone made the effort of trying to do an asymmetrical RTS thing with something resembling lore-accurate scope.

So for IG/Orks you'd have DoW1 style blobs of duders, then for SMs you run more like DoW2 with small teams of badass motherfuckers.

>>50858393
>>50858311

haha, talk about owned!

>>50886295
>play Dawn of War 1
>love it
>play Dawn of War 2
>love it
>Dawn of War 3 looks like it's the mix of the worst things out of 1 and 2

>>50886459
>The PvP was fucking intense
It was intense, true, but it lacked substance. To elaborate:
Do you remember this one children's game, where one player holds out his hands, and the other player has to slap them while the first tries to evade? That's intense too, but it gets boring as shit as you essentially have no influence on the outcome beyond simple mechanical skill. You can not make creative plays. You can not make interesting decisions. You're performing rote tasks. That's DoW 2, intense but empty.

While I personally do not want base building in a 40k game, it fulfills an incredibly important niche in other RTS: opening up playstyles and map situations. You can proxy, you can wall, you can scout for techs etc. This adds a broad spectrum of possible plays which is simply not present in DoW 2. Tech decisions were usually binary, the hard counter system meant you rarely actually needed to make equipment- or unit-decisions as you had an optimal counter for everything (which is why hard-counter systems generally make shitty games, soft counters reward creativity).

Going back and re-implementing base building shows that they understand there was something missing in DoW 2, but they don't understand what exactly it was. That amount of ignorance leaves me quite unimpressed and honestly I don't think I'll even bother pirating.

>>50886613

bait

>>50878328
It's not just the criticism of the soviet regime. It's the fact that all the other nations completely have any negative elements ignored, meanwhile the entire russian campaign is shitty tropes many of which didn't happen or happened about once under different circumstances.
The soviet soldiers are all cowardly and the commanders are all idiots, the game should have celebrated heroes just like the title suggests but the entire campaign focuses on painting them in the poorest light possible.

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>>50886295
>play Dawn of War 1
>love it
>play Dawn of War 2
>love it

>Dawn of War 3 looks like 1
>love it, don't get the hate

>>50885866
Everyone want to put big guns on the table and that's especially true for Space Marine players
Eldar have Wraithknights, Orks have G/Morkanauts, Marines would be the only ones without a big titan-thingy.
Plus, come on, don't you think Titanic fights are cool? It is much better to see a Knight impale a Wraithknight than seeing a particular Relic Dread giving him the final "boop" on the leg, helped with a lot of lascannons. 40k runs on rule of cool

>>50885949
>>50886459
I don't understand how you can be ok with both of those statements:
>Starcraft is shit
>DoW II requires lot of a micro management
I mean, isn't Starcraft II despised because of all the "gookclick" thing? Why would micro suddenly become an argument for DoW II?

>>50886548
Well, they're already trying to do that. In every single game. That's why the cost of a Marine squad is larger than the cost of a Sluggamob, and the sluggamob has more dudes in it. And if you reach endgame in DoW1, Orks have indeed a lot more dudes on the screen than Marines if I remember correctly

>>50886459
>>50886631
To put some positivity into this:

They should leave out the base building and instead expand the unit roster. Give multiple ways to respond to a threat with a soft counter system and a Tech Tree that is broad starting at T1. Have an extensive system of off-map support abilities you can buy in to provide utility the buildings did. Have possibilities for Deep Striking. Have most units have low-impact passive abilities or none at all so it does not devolve into a pure micro-fest, instead make them unique by maybe differentiating stats more (have Tactical and Devastator marines still be really tough in melee, for example) and move active abilities to dedicated caster units.
Add an actual cover and Terrain system. Optimum here would be bullet tracing, more realistically it's differentiated terrain zones + solid cover a la DoW2.

Remove the clusterfuck that is particle effects they have presented so far, not everything needs to blow up like a Micheal Bay movie. Fix the animations.

>>50886873
>Eldar have Wraithknights, Orks have G/Morkanauts, Marines would be the only ones without a big titan-thingy.
It's almost as if completely different races have completely different military doctrines!
> It is much better to see a Knight impale a Wraithknight than seeing a particular Relic Dread giving him the final "boop" on the leg, helped with a lot of lascannons. 40k runs on rule of cool
And it would be a fuckton cooler if Space Marines don't need to rely on some huge ass robot they loaned (they're not the Grey Knights or fucking Tau after all) and instead teleported in and fucked shit up with balls of adamant and a well placed vortex grenade. Or roll out a 10 000 year old relic tank that they stuffed with so many las cannons it sometimes melts itself.

>>50886943
>(they're not the Grey Knights or fucking Tau after all)

Not that anon, but Imperial Knights look nice.

Also I heard that they're going for as many units as it is possible, so a Land Raider Terminus (with all its Lascannon glory).

>>50887289
>Not that anon, but Imperial Knights look nice.
It looks like a stunted Mars pattern warhound.

>>50887320
But more humanoid.

And with a chainsword and a bitchin' helmet.

Fair maidens love bitchin' helmets.

>>50887289
>>50887422
Honestly, it should be held back for an eventual Adeptus Mechanicus faction, where it fits a lot better stylistically, mechanically and fluff-wise.

>>50886943
>Have most units have low-impact passive abilities or none at all so it does not devolve into a pure micro-fest, instead make them unique by maybe differentiating stats more (have Tactical and Devastator marines still be really tough in melee, for example) and move active abilities to dedicated caster units.
I kinda agree on the sentiment, but we both know it would be an unbalanced mess and people would only use the unit/combo of the moment. Like in every RTS ever
Also, you seem to have to add an awful lot of systems and mechanisms just to replace the buildings.

>Remove the clusterfuck that is particle effects they have presented so far, not everything needs to blow up like a Micheal Bay movie. Fix the animations.
Agreed

>And it would be a fuckton cooler if Space Marines don't need to rely on some huge ass robot they loaned (they're not the Grey Knights or fucking Tau after all) and instead teleported in and fucked shit up with balls of adamant and a well placed vortex grenade
Well, I guess cool has different meanings for everyone. In your example, I don't think the Eldar player would enjoy the situation that much. He would just wreck havoc on hundreds of little mens until one of them land a lucky shot. While if he sees something his size, he has more chance going "ho shit, it is on"
I don't know, I understand your point but I also really like the fact that in 40k, some units are so out of reach for "simple" units - even if said units are superhuman in tank armor with automatic rocket-launchers. There's always something bigger! (And that's when you call for help)

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>>50887460
Adeptus Mechanicus uses different knights, anyway.

>>50858270
>static defense in an RTS is for retards
You must be a canadian, because you are acting as if you were fucked by a moose and cucked by a spruce.

>>50887589
>Also, you seem to have to add an awful lot of systems and mechanisms just to replace the buildings.
True, but then again they had to do an awful lot of engineering to replace horses as the main mode of transportation.

>I kinda agree on the sentiment, but we both know it would be an unbalanced mess and people would only use the unit/combo of the moment
But that at least might change. The Starcraft Broodwars meta is still changing, because units never had a clearly defined role and multiple things could counter something. And Balancing really should be possible as this is literally one of the core concerns of a strategy game.

>I don't know, I understand your point but I also really like the fact that in 40k, some units are so out of reach for "simple" units - even if said units are superhuman in tank armor with automatic rocket-launchers. There's always something bigger! (And that's when you call for help)
I take it you don't read the novels. At one point a Biker kills a Warlord Titan. SpaceMarine Doctrine for dealing with titans is literally teleporting onto their coordinates and throwing black-hole-grenades.

>>50882345
>implying an item description will stop a certain leprechaun writer who made his books canon in the upcoming third game

hope you like tentacle arms neophytes cause with cs goto and relic ITS ALL CANON NOW HAHAHAHHA

>>50867024
This. I loved the small scale strategy of 2. It felt unique compared to most strategy games I've played and the use of cover, buildings and suppression made actual tactics rewarding. But rather than keep this, or the brilliantly gritty slogfest of 1 they want a star craft clone.

>>50870851
>we may never get to play a crazy ass ork racing game
>why live

>>50886593
Stop replying to yourself.

>>50885947
hey, don't get me wrong. I know the esport bubble is on the verge of busting for CS:GO and by extension overwatch.

>>50886192
And company of heroes had a tank brawl and an Actual MoBa map for fun.
Doesn't make it any less of an RTS.

>>50886631
it was far more substantial than DoW1's combat because unit positioning was a thing AND units gained experience and could use specials more often.

>>50886674
>painting them in the poorest way possible
>soviet soldiers are good and competent.
>NKVD officers are dicks.
yeah. I can see why the russians got butthurt.

>>50889340
It's a bit cartoony, and shite, but Banjo Kazooie Nuts n Bolts is actually pretty much a E for Everyone reskin of exactly what you want.

>>50893830
NKVD werent just dicks in the game, they were Imp Guard commissar level dicks.

>>50888284
>I take it you don't read the novels. At one point a Biker kills a Warlord Titan.
Didn't read much of them. I know of Darnath Lysander from the codices. But the guy is supposed to be the exception.
I agree about the rest ...but I still think this is utopia. No studio will ever try this. Not after every little mechanism needed has been tried before

>>50894099
IG commissars were based off them
But CoH hasn't been that historically accurate,( Pershings fighting tigers during operation cobra.) rather, its historically authentic.

>>50888284
The BW meta keeps changing because kespa makes small map changes every time.

>>50894194
The whole "oh, you rescued your sergeant AND completed the mission objective? Well, fuck you, you were told not to rescue the guy, eat Nagant "
was what made me angry. They were dicks no doubt, but not stupid.

>>50894222
he was the captain though
I liked pozarsky and his "nothing personnel...poles" thing.

>>50885936
You mean the things still covered in mud, blood, and shit if they've seen any action at all?

Uniforms are only pristine for off duty troops.

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>>50885331
>Who gives a fuck about campaign
I do so fuck you

>It's not fucking thematic. 40k is the Grimdark Forty-First Millennium. There are no bright clean things jump-walking like retards around the map. They need to be gritty, unclean, and scarred. Anything else isn't 40k.
>>50885936
>>50894577
Yeah, sure, Eldar never do silly ninja moves, Space Marines are never described as freakin' superheroes, Orks are never goofy, Tau aren't Gundam, the use of fuckin' walking cathedrals of war is not silly over-the-top, etc.

>What is Total War
Certainly not a game with "balls to the wall difficulty, where if you get hit badly by one artillery blast, you're fucking done", mostly because if even if you lose a battle you can recreate a lot of your lost squads on the next turn

>It's more of the same basic garbage we've been getting for the past decade that is completely unoriginal, uninspired, and suffocating the industry. DOW 3 isn't special. Nothing is unique about it, it's just going to be a generic-ass RTS with everything that made the first and second game semi unique removed. While also doing nothing new.
You focus on what's the same and refuse to see what's new and/or different. What about the elite system? Or the reappropriation of "MOBAs'" skillshots? Hell, simply trying to find a happy medium between DoW1's scale and DoW2's micro-base combat IS innovation

>>50885331
>nothing unique about it. Nothing new.
>heroes in a mainstream RTS game.
>the better LoS system.
>APCs being used as a frontline reinforcement point.
>commander abilities from other relic games.
sure thing. It's the third game in a sequel, and it will have aspects of the first two games.

The internet being big has given people who don't know anything about anything the ability to speak with supreme confidence with the help of an echo chamber. If dawn of war 1 were to come out today, people would complain about the resource gathering which would be too simplified
>"But what about my macrogame."
>"What do you mean my workers can't harvest resources."
>"Lol, shit game, no economy to harrass"
And so on and so forth

When dawn of war 2 came out people trashed it for the smaller scale fights and emphasis on unit tactics, despite it being a unique RTS system that had asa much to borrow from warcraft 3 as it had from company of heroes.

Dawn of war 3 comes out and suddenly people decide that the game isn't grimdark enough because Relic shows eldar artwork of a banshee mourning for another fallen eldar because it's like "Sailor Moon".

Everyone saying that they want the cover system from DoW2 forgets that Imperial guardsmen with their bigger squad sizes could barely get into cover because their squads were too big.

Relic saw that the community played a lot of Last Stand and Ultimate apocalypse and they designed their game to attract those two fanbases because they stuck with their games for so long.

I actually liked DoW2, I still like it, even though I no longer play it.

>>50895269
>people decide that the game isn't grimdark enough because Relic shows eldar artwork of a banshee mourning for another fallen eldar because it's like "Sailor Moon".
Dafuq? Where did you see those complaints? (Not doubting you, just curious.)

>>50895728
A lot of people do. I like both DoW1 and DoW2, in their own special ways, because each of them is a good game.

What unit/faction would you like Relic to add on the game? How would it play like?

>>50870199
Legging It With Lasguns

>>50896465
>What unit/faction would you like Relic to add on the game? How would it play like?

The list is practically endless.

Though I'm unsure with some.
For instance, Tau could go 2 ways. If they allow Relic to add some stuff into the game, then definitely expand the whole two sided shtick Tau lost over the years.
If it needs to adhere strictly to TT with no new additions, then Gundam RTS that never was, final destination.

Imperial Guard with some sort of super-base mechanic. Stuff like expanding fortifications along their listening posts for the proper Astra Militarum "Hold the line!" experience.

DEldar could be really interesting with how they're implementing skimmers into the game.

Skitarii for the novelty of appearing in a vidya for the first time.
Though they'd really have to kick GW into gear to design more units for them since they're more bare-bones than Oldcrons in terms of unit choices.

>>50896710
You could just relabel Skitarii as AdMech and crack open the Forge World toybox to solve their unit variety problems.

>>50896761
They do have FW units but it's all Horus Heresy-only shit.

>>50877594
you're right, absolutely no part of a map favours certain races in sc2.

>>50896465
>Dafuq? Where did you see those complaints? (Not doubting you, just curious.)
The game director gave a 7 minute interview about the different factions. While showing off the eldar artwork you had the offending image.
Youtube comments (which are a valid source) were awash with "ELDAR NOW SAILOR MOON, ARCH WILL HEAR OF THIS TRAVESTY"

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>>50897157
>ARCH WILL HEAR OF THIS TRAVESTY

Why do those fucking sheep fellate him so much?

>>50897157
>>50897847
Who is this Arch?

>>50898029
Some nobody TW player, IIRC.
Think Heir of Carthage... basically one of the few people making videos of TW matches and talking all fancy over what's a toddler's game (I'm using historically accurate Roman tactics and they work on retards online! Wow!).
Except this one also knows how to recite shit from Lexicanum so he got big once Total Warhammer got announced.

>>50898029
Some big ass lore guy.
Like every Youtube expert he is full of shit.
>>50898143
eh.
Arch was the warhammer guy, and Oakley HD makes actual cool looking videos and doesn't sound like a fag.