ITS FUCKING HAPPENJNG

>>50851822
We already had blackshield blood ravens in HH6 now we'll get them proper with their first chapter master
If they end up fighting on Terra then they'll retcon the traitor TS to also be there to have corny 'brother....' scenes

>>50851822
Oh sweet! The next chapter of Magnus: Shippuden is out!

>>50851822
Is this a new novel? Can't find info of it anywhere.

>>50851822
What? He's just becoming a Knight-Errant.

>>50852505
It's a short story in the Black Library advent calendar, it released today.

Anyone wanna share it?

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>>50852584

I really hope, but I don't expect at all, for any kind of Blood Ravens connection. Probably Malcador saved him, and Garro takes him with other rejects.

>>50852715
Almost. Reposting anon's summary from /hhg/:

>Malcador tries to save Arvida from the flesh change. He fails. It turns out however, that a shard of Magnus is loitering around in the ancient spaces beneath the palace, and Malcador plans to use Arvida to draw him out. He plugs Arvida into a bunch of tech in one of the warding chambers.
Arvida has a bunch of psychic visions etc, in which he is joined by his old tutelary Ianius, and eventually finds the shard of Magnus.
In the real world, the Khan turns up and is super pissed that Mal isn't saving Arvida and is instead using him for some sorcerous bullshit
Stuff happens in the psychic realm between the Magnus shard and Arvida, while in the real world, the Khan takes his sword to all the creepy machines in the warding room
The end result is that Arvida's body coalesces back into existence, untainted of the flesh change...but he's got a damaged eye. He says to Mal that, sorry, I know you wanted the shard of Magnus, but you've got me instead.
The Khan takes a long look at him, then says yo you ain't Arvida...and you aren't my brother either. What's your name?
Ianius, is the answer

>>50853071
>alternate spelling of Janus
What did he mean by this?

>>50853071
>Ianius
Is that name improtant or known?

>>50853071
So what the hell does that mean?

>>50853381
>>50853329
>>50853114
Janus is the mysterious first Grand Master and founder of the Grey Knights.

>>50853395
>bloody magpies untouched by filthy BL writers
Thank fuck for that

>>50853395
Uh. I would have preferred Omegon (who took the mantle of Traitor Alpharius) to become Janus but oh well.

>>50853450
Omegon dies by Girlyman's hands after the HH. Or did he?

>>50851833
The main body of the sons was there in older lore, too. They just spent their time summoning demons instead of attacking the locals directly.

>>50853432
>muffled ADB REEEEEing in the distance

>>50853468
Alpharius dies. And Omegon assumes the mantle of the traitor (while being a loyalist normally) to save his skin.

So first master of GK is actually magnus?
Part of him?
Mind. Blown the fuck out.

>>50854691
Only Magnus can beat Magnus.
>marines turning into primarch like avatars thanks to some psychic/science magic soon.

>>50854691
No, the first Grand Master is apparently a daemon in human form. Or I guess Tutaleries might actually be in a similar boat to the wolf spirits of Fenris in their not actually being daemons-ness.

It this continues to expand on warp beings, I'm actually all for it.

>>50853482
Why is ADB the worst WH40k metaplot pusher in Black Library?

>>50853516
Didn't Dorn kill Alpharius? So the "alpharius" that was left after was Omegon, who may or may not have been killed by Roboute or is now impersonating Roboute in the stasis chamber.

>>50855075

Fucking source.
Just because you can say things dosent mean you should

>>50855831
Literally higher up in the thread. Ianius is the Thousand Son's tutelary, which is kinda like a warp construct or spirit I don't think. Ianius is another name/spelling for Janus, who is himself the name sake of the first Grand Master of the Grey Knights. The fact this guy is directly linked to Malcador during the time when the Grey Knights are being pulled together leads to some interesting conclusions.

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>>50855113
His inability to separate his personal issues with his writing, leading to daddy issues galore and a stop liking what I don't like mentality.
It's frankly sad, because he was one of the better ones before his problems rose to the surface.

>>50855075
Same, desu, finding out more about the Warp other than just "Daemons live there" has lots of potential.

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>>50851822

>>50852619
>>50852584
So... anyone care to share? Please? Merry Christmas? I love you long time?

>>50853395
Oh duck it's on

>>50852468
Is this really how it goes?

I remember picking these books up... god, forever ago. Mainly when Dan Abnett was writing. I remember the Luna Wolves had their little elitist clique, but the new guy was left out and eventually picked up by the other main character forming the Grey Knights after the Istvan bombing.

>>50853071
Great, more TWEESTS AND TURMS from Black Library.

>>50856014
Why are some of the BL writers so autistic? Like, they're fucking grown people. What the fuck.

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>>50853432
The Thousand Sons thing people love so much is almost entirely BL to begin with. Even the IA article that kicked it all off was written by a dev who's now only really known as a BL author - and strictly speaking, it didn't actually link them, it just drew a parallel between Magnus and an aspect of the Blood Ravens that's never been reflected in any of the games, the only implication being that they're headed on the same path he was.

>>50856014
If he was really as all about daddy issues as everyone says, then he would love the idea of Blood Ravens being Thousand Sons.

>Prayer strips sealed to this power armor by Reclusiarch Mikelus read: "I am a Blood Raven, born into the starry sky on wings of hate. Hate for the alien and his opposition to Man. Hate for the treasons of brothers and fathers."
>Remember always those mighty sons of the Emperor, fathers to all our chapters. Remember that even in their number, treason took root. Remember that we still pay for that dark truth.
>"Sons must atone for the sins of their fathers."

>>50853450
I liked that theory, myself. Shame it's not the case.

>>50856014
>You can't have a thing you like because I say so

How the can someone write so much shit about this setting and still not even fucking get it at all?

>>50860854
Because 99% of the current generation of writers and editors are the ascended fanboys autistic enough to get a job writing and editing for GW.

>>50860854
You realize the anon in that post could very much be talking out of his ass, right?

Even if ADB has that attitude, I doubt he'd be stupid enough to put it in a public forum.

>>50860854
ADB's argument is something along the lines of "40k is a sandbox setting about Your Dudes" and how explaining mysteries makes the setting smaller because there's no more speculation. Though to be fair it seems a bit hypocritical for a guy who's writing HH for Black Library. So usually he uses his position to kill fan theories like "Blood Ravens are not descended from 1k Sons loyalists" or "Space Yiffs didn't purge the two lost legions"

>>50853071
>>50856014
So if Magpies aren't Thousand Sons, what is their parent legion?

>>50862080
One of the lost legions?

Can someone explain me from where came the joke about ADB daddy issues and how it is the source of the recent chaos wank?

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>>50862080
Imperial Fists.

So close to true greatness, and yet so very, very far.

>>50862180
Based on what? Their loot?

>>50855779
Alpharius and Omegon could inject marines with their blood in a chemical cocktail to temporarily give them Primarch-like abilities, I think? So no way of knowing if you're actually killing a Primarch or just another Astartes.

>>50862136
Apparently Goto tried to do that in his first draft of the first DoW novel, and the editor came down really hard on him for it.

>>50862166
I think it's mostly got to do with his portrayal of the Emperor as a selfish, uncaring incompetent who (according to some peoples' interpretations of his latest HH book) saw the Primarchs as tools rather than people.

>>50862180
>>50862080
That is fucking bullshit. The whole
>Loyalist remnants of Traitor Legions Chapters
is being done with other Legions who nobody expected, like the Iron Warriors/Silver Skulls, but Black Library/ADB go out of their way to invalidate all other previously Traitor-linked Chapters? Why?

>>50862744
>is being done with other Legions who nobody expected, like the Iron Warriors/Silver Skulls
Don't forget the Death Eagles/Emperor's Children link.

To be fair though, the SS' Chapter badge and colour scheme already had people speculating about an Iron Warriors link.

>>50862804
Yeah, but the 41st Millenium Silver Skulls do not resemble the Iron Warriors very much at all in Black Library fluff.

Meanwhile, people have been linking the Blood Ravens to the Thousand Sons for almost 10 years now.

>>50861445
Explaining things isn't the problem.

Directly connecting 1:1 to something in M41 is what he feels makes the setting smaller. Take Perturabo's Trident commanders. All three of them are the same commanders of the Iron Warriors in M41. Meaning that none of them will ever lose, none of them will be replaced, nothing will change in the IW high command in 10,000 years, and that's boring.

>>50856014

I'd be kind of annoyed too if people kept trying to tie the Blood Ravens to the Thousand Sons after the former had been ruined by memes and more importantly if the author of the novel which supposedly authors evidence of such a conclusion says that wasn't his intention.

>>50860854

Well like ADB says, he does have access to the people who would create such a thing and thus can likely get a straight yes or no answer.

>>50862740

To be fair it's easy to look at Lorgar and Angron and the heavy handed approach that the Emperor took with both of them and surmise that he pretty much only cares about them doing what he wants them to do. It's a nice way as well of showing how everything could get fucked up and how the Primarchs aren't supermen but merely super powered humans.

>>50862846
>Yeah, but the 41st Millenium Silver Skulls do not resemble the Iron Warriors very much at all in Black Library fluff.
That doesn't mean much though, since Successors don't have to be carbon copies of their parent Chapters. A lot can change over several thousand years, like with the Mortifactors.

Are people really mad that Arvida is Janus when he was one of the top 5 most likely suspects?

>>50863132
Nu uh! Every chapter is exactly like their parent chapter except the Black Templar! Otherwise they'd have their own chapter tactics :^)

>>50863143
I thought it was hilarious Janus essentially loyalist magnus but whatever.

>>50862884
That's already endemic in 40K canon though. For the most part, the First Founding Chapters/Legions are all still milking the same gimmicks that they have since at least the end of the Heresy, usually longer in the case of most of the loyalists. At most, aspects of their gimmicks have become exaggerated over time. but GW has decided to keep them more-or-less in cultural stasis.

It's one of the many things that makes me ask if GW even knows how long 10K years is.

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>>50862278
What crueller twist could there be than to finally uncover the identity of your progenitor, after centuries of anticipation, only to learn that they are indeed among the top tier of the champions of mankind... but not quite THE top.

For Thule, before he found and read those records, there was still a chance, still hope, for what the truth of the Blood Ravens' heritage might hold. Hope that they too might share in the genetic legacy of the Greatest of Astartes, whose example all other true Space Marines aspire to emulate.

But instead they had to settle for second best. A consolation prize.

>>50863424

It never really occurred to me as being unrealistic that they keep certain traits. For GW it's probably just an easy way of helping a Chapter to have an identity and some of them are so old now that rocking the boat just isn't feasible. There is a reason why in Wrath of Magnus they blew up a planet other than Fenris.

>>50863424
Having the same gimmick isn't even close to saying, "This thing is 100% the exact same thing 10,000 years later."

Omegon being Janus would have still been a better tweest

Personally I think this was the original intention, but somewhere along the way they decided to kill off Alpharius and have Omegon not be loyal

>>50863040
>former had been ruined by memes
For fucks sake, go outside for once.

>>50863132
Even so, aside from the Chapter symbol there was nothing to make you think they were Iron Warriors at all, unless you think their tech-heresy made them sort of like the Iron Warriors.

Any Hope of a post of the story. Please

>>50863040
>he does have access to the people who would create such a thing and thus can likely get a straight yes or no answer

This is my problem. There shouldn't be a straight yes or no answer.

>>50862532
Does that happen with blood of all Primarchs?

>>50862804
I though the Minotaurs were the secret IW offshoot chapter

Or there's more than one I guess for each legion

>>50866126
Nvm, they are World Eaters, I'm retarded

>>50858279
I would read that.

>>50862532

Mark my words, Alpharius learned how to transmutate his own soul into other bodies, the ultimate stealth capability. This is thanks to his study of necron technology. He even uses a necron spear as a weapon.

Alpharius was killed by Dorn but not his soul. What Omegon felt was Alpharius no longer existing in the inmaterium, but he does exist in the warp.

>>50865221
Don't beg for something that costs 2 pounds, have some pride.

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>>50868202

>>50863519
Seriously. It's these complainers that are shallow

>>50863766
Why would it be him? Makes as much sense as tits on a duck

>>50868202
gtf off 4chan dicknose

>>50868202
Why would something digital have weight, anon?

>>50866228
My nigga...

>>50853071
One thing comes to mind.
So, Janus is apparently a warp entity/daemon in Arvida's body. This casts a really sinister light on the ritual name change that GK undergo. Are they actually all possessed by warp-beings? Would explain why they are so effective against chaos and why they have to be so damn secret.

>>50862744

A better question would be, why panic? Its cemented in lore that Arvida founded the Blood Ravens. Theres nothing in lore which says Arvida stayed. Theres nothing in lore which says the Grey Knights can't take a chapter master into their elite order. Its just assumed that no organization ever tries to take a chapter master away from his chapter for their own because of killy reasons.

>>50864758

Sorry, but it's the truth. Stale memes have seemingly become the Blood Raven's only claim to fame considering their are numerous other Chapters with color schemes similar to their own and both the Thousand Sons and Grey Knights do the psychic Marine schtick better.

>>50865994

Maybe in your view, but according to ADB then GW has decided there is no link. Admittedly it's somewhat weird since they do still like to waffle on things for whatever reason, but I'm assuming it might be that they don't want the Thousand Sons tied to a Chapter from a video game. Alternatively it might have become too heavy handed for them, I can't really recall how FW handled the supposed ties between various Chapters coming from Traitor geneseed.

>>50870962
>Its cemented in lore that Arvida founded the Blood Ravens.
No it's not.
The only thing we know is that it was founded by a guy who's name sounds slightly similar.

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>>50867334
>no longer existing in the inmaterium, but he does exist in the warp.

>>50870872

Here faggot, that idea is actually really cool

>>50871839
Considering Exorcists are basically poor man's Grey Knights and that their rite of passage is being possessed by a demon and expelling it I would not be surprised if one of the many rituals Grey Knights have is similar to that.

>>50871094
Go outside.
You've let /tg/ become your entire view on the matter.

>>50851822
>ADB GOT BTFO
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA THE DELICIOUS TEARS.

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>>50853071

I'm not as familiar with things as I should.

I understand that Janus is a fusion part Arvida, part Magnus Shard, but where does the tutelary part come in?

>>50873133
>tutelary part come in?
Tutelaries were described at the end of a thousand sons as daemons that ultimately betrayed their masters, so probably lanius was a butthurt undivided daemons that decided to fuck the Pantheon and join mankind side

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>>50873188

I'm aware of that, but was the story explicit in, or explain in a way, Janus being a three-way fusion rather than two-way fusionis what I meant.

>>50860509
the only one bitching that the BR and TS arent connected is fucking ADB.

I honestly hope the BR mystery remains untouched by the BL, the clues that we got are already enough.

I like the idea of the Thousand sons fleet that Magnus sent away becoming the blood ravens. As it should be.

>>50871109
and we dont even know if Vydia funded it, just that he was a very important figure for the chapter.
>>50870962
Arvyda didnt fund it.

>>50862080
Relic and THQ liked and still want them to be loyalist Thousand sons. Denying that is just asking to get retconed by the very next game in the dow franchise.

>>50871094
>but according to ADB
He has absolutely no say in the matter, outside of REEEEing over people liking what he doesn't.

Every time a connection has been made, it was made by someone other than him.
The fact that he has no stake in the matter and still wants to ruin it for everyone else is one of the worst indictments of him.
At least his attempts to make the Emperor and Primarchs into utter retards to slake his personal issues are actually in his remit.

>>50862740
But the Primarchs literally are tools

>>50873569
Lore bits that are "shrouded in mystery" are some of the more fun parts of 40k, anyway. I like the teases and the speculation that comes from the teases.

So where is Janus in 40k?

>>50855876
There's literally no reason to change his name.

>>50875368
but bl and hh its basically getting ride of the mystery for shit headcanons.

>>50853071
>Ianius, is the answer
So this is his tutelary? Does this mean once again Magnus did nothing wrong and that the SW overreacted to the TS's pet demons?

If this shit is sanctioned by the Grey Knights and Malc then once again Russ and Nikaea are proven wrong.

>>50873188

Might not have even been part of the pantheon since I don't believe GW has ruled out minor daemons unaffiliated with the gods, the fact that the Forge of Souls is a thing would suggest the opposite.

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>>50872503
>You've let /tg/ become your entire view on the matter.
I thought that was just the norm here (e.g. Failbaddon, or the anti-Be'lakor movement that exists solely because of one guy).

>>50873647
>Relic and THQ liked and still want them to be loyalist Thousand sons. Denying that is just asking to get retconed by the very next game in the dow franchise.
Is that why DoW has never even mentioned the Thousand Sons except in a few wargear descriptions where they're nothing more than another Traitor Legion?

>>50875406
Long dead (well, one assumes). Draigo is his M41 counterpart.

>>50875352
Things you make stop being tools and start being people the moment when they have dreams and aspirations you have to beat out of them by burning everything they love to the ground to get them to work again.

>>50862693

Of all the things wrong with Goto, THAT was what got edited?

>>50877088
Ignore this guy. He continuously lies and obscures fluff to push his point of view.

He thinks that necrodermis isn't living metal. Can you freaking believe that?

>>50876679
>the fact that the Forge of Souls is a thing would suggest the opposite.

The Forge of Souls exists in the Chaos abyss and it's part of the Chaos bureaucracy.

>>50877945
Wrong, that's another Grand Master. He is even fucking named.

>>50877958

Sorry, I misremembered his name.

>>50877844

You can't just label a flavor of the month video game chapter as a lost legion. Thats beyond retarded and shows that the person who suggested it in the first place has little actual regard for its long term implications. The two lost legions are one of the biggest secrets in the franchise.

>>50875352
>>50877181

The Primarchs were vessels of the Emperor's hopes and dreams - vessels which were then shaped by all aspects of humankind into completely distinct human souls will their own thoughts and free will. They would be wonderful analogies to all the aspects of a human being and how humanity has developed in known history if they weren't being handled by Black Library.

>>50878078

Parent legion anon. The entire point of lost legions is to be a source of your dudes. That's literally the whole purpose of them.

>>50877088
>complains about stale memes
>falls prey to stale memes himself
Praise Tzeentch

>>50878141

Clearly not the implication. Put out a book that basically says 'Blood Ravens are a chapter of one of the two lost legions' and people will rave about it at every Warhammer con forever until they're finally annihilated in a video game. Its bad enough that less than a handful of the legion chapters command the attention and respect of the fanbase while everyone else might as well be 'literally who'. But to make Blood Ravens bigger than all of them? At least Red Scorpions and Space Sharks were just pet projects of Forgeworld.

>>50878182

You're over reacting. Saying a chapter is descended from lost legions says almost nothing. It's a completely generic origin and the entire purpose of lost legions. It tells you nothing of the lost legion itself and does nothing to make them important. Calm yo'self.

>>50878214

>Saying a chapter is descended from lost legions says almost nothing.

It confirms certain assumptions about a lost legion which can compromise the way the fanbase views the setting, which is something the company has to deal with in the long term. From your customer point of view, you can hardly give a shit. But from GW's point of view, this is one less pain in the ass that they can live without.

Besides, the fanbase loves to be teased far more than to be fed. Just look at this short story shitstorm where everyone expected more progression towards Arvida starting the Blood Ravens.

>>50878141
>>50878214

The lost legions were actually a reference to the Roman lost legions, but no one really reads history and obscure shit like that.

The "your dudes" theory kind of spun out of that, but generally, since nothing has explained this mystery and even its scant mentions in canon reveal very little, it's considered a mystery that's better left unfilled.

Still, a descendant of a lost legion, a legion which was completely purged from Imperial records so thoroughly that no clues remain as to what happened, they'd be of huge interest in the setting. Not least because the Inquisition will put top priority of purging every single one of them and everyone who knows about them to maintain that secret.

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>>50878125
>They would be wonderful analogies to all the aspects of a human being
Including the negative ones.

>>50878146
I'm not the other guy, I was just commenting. Perhaps shouldn't have made that jab at Carnac though, since it apparently summoned him.

>>50878255

>It confirms certain assumptions about a lost legion

No it doesn't. Successors often have nothing in common with parent chapters. For fuck sakes, people are taking the THOUSAND SONS origin seriously. What the utter fuck do they have in common with TS? That shouldn't even be possible. Lost legion descendants at least makes sense and doesn't break canon in ten different ways.

>>50878287
>Perhaps shouldn't have made that jab at Carnac though, since it apparently summoned him.

Yeah, talk about him even more! That'll help! He hates that!

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>>50878287
Your distinct whiny and passive aggressive posts is what summoned me.

Nah, really I was monitoring this thread ever since it was started. So don't flatter yourself Necrodermis-denier.

But enough about you, let me revel in my victory. The Arvida connection has been cut. The Blood Ravens being Sons of Horus/Luna Wolves is back in, baby!

>>50878300
well, the reasons behind the TS hypothesis is that they share similar color schemes with pre heresy TS, they have an unusual abundance of psykers in their chapter, not unlike TS, and revere them likewise. Additionally, each traitor legion had loyalist elements just as each loyal legion had traitors. In the TS case, the corvidae cult was noted to not be at Prospero and could have potentially remained loyal (the Corvidae or Raven being the symbol of the BR chapter).

A not so subtle pointer also came up when that one chick with the TS on Prospero mentioned the Ravens of Blood crying out for salvation and knowledge, only to have it denied. There doesn't seem to be any reason to reference the Blood Ravens around the TS except to strengthen the link between them.

>>50878339
>he Arvida connection has been cut. The Blood Ravens being Sons of Horus/Luna Wolves is back in, baby!
Arvida's just one of many potentially loyal TS marines. There's still strong evidence to suggest BR descended from TS.

>>50878350
>they have an unusual abundance of psykers in their chapter,

This is a dumbass red herring that dumbasses fell into.

Their IA article attributes this to the fact that Blood Ravens recruit from worlds with a high percentage of psykers and mutants like Cyrene. If you recruit latent psykers of course you ill have an abundance of psykers in your chapter.

Notice a sharp decline in psychic Blood Ravens after the destruction of Cyrene. coincidence? I think not.

>>50878385
And it is likely because they revere psychics that they choose to actively recruit them.

Additionally, the loss of psychic BRs may also be attributed more to the 'nid shadow in the warp killing many of them, and culling the chapter of corruption from the Auralien crusades.

>>50878350
>similar color schemes

Wow. I don't believe that even you are convinced by that. So you're only actual point that isn't padding is they have a high amount of psykers, which just flat out ignores the given reason for why that is (they recruit from Cyren - a planet with lots of psykers). It also requires ignoring that it makes no sense for geneseed to be recovered from a chapter that were mutating even before they turned traitor. It's fucking stupid and flat out wrong with only Goto books being shitty enough to offer hints.

>>50878362
You mean flimsy evidence at best.

Abaddon's obsession with the destruction/corruption of the Blood Raven as well as his interest in the Raven's geneseed implies something else. Abaddon sees his vendetta with the Blood Ravens as something personal and few thing makes Abaddon get involved personally.

>>50878428
The chapter was rebuilt. You get to play them in DoW3. Where are the psykers? Why are they ordinary marines?

>revere psychics

So does the woofs revere their Rune Priests. They are not the only chapter that respects its psykers.

Also I forgot to add that the Blood Raven geneseed is remarkably pure save for a single flaw. They do not suffer from the genetic flaw known as the Flesh Change no matter how much they draw from the warp. This alone disproves the Blood Raven being TS.

>>50878385
>>50878435

>picking and choosing a single clue among half a dozen

WOOW

>>50878516
We only need one. No Flesh Change = they are not TS.

The Flesh Change wasn't cured. In fact, it's incurable by anything but Tzeentch and Ahriman's Rubric (dust to dust).

>>50878435
Then we get into an argument over truth and canonicity in BL books. True, Goto has written horribly about it, but such as his writing is, the information thus far has stated that one of the ancient facilities the BR man has been around since ancient times, when the Eldar had made some sort of agreement for the then space marines (heresy era) to act as stewards, and those marines wore red, much like the loyalist TS.

As for the geneseed, there may yet be opportunities for the Loyalists in 30k to enact some sort of cure for the flesh change.

>>50878449
It could be that one of the ancestors of the BR, a loyalist TS perhaps, actually did something to offend Abaddon. 10000 years is a long time to form grudges for people.

>>50878493
What's the time frame for DoW3, in relation to DoW2?

Admittedly, we don't even see much of psykers during the original two games either, though this may simply be for balance and game mechanics, so it could still simply be just that.

Also, the Wolves don't respect psykers so much as they respect their own Rune Priests. TS and BR acknowledge the psyker.

>>50878564
>As for the geneseed, there may yet be opportunities for the Loyalists in 30k to enact some sort of cure for the flesh change.

>Magnus failed to cure it
>Malcador cannot cure it
>lesser men can cure it!

Outside a deal with Tzeentch or one of Chaos powers, there is no cure.

>>50878602
Magnus didn't fail to cure it :^)

>>50878602
We still have a few more books to go, so thee might be a way. And as it was implied earlier with Ruvuel becoming Janus, as grandmaster of the grey knights, surely his flesh change would have been cured before being cleared for duty

>>50878633
Magnus cured it by crying to the Warp for haaaaalp. Tzeentch answered his plea and "cured" the flesh change but Tzeentch being Tzeentch restored the flesh change during the burning of Prosporo.

>>50878649

If the first GK is a Thousand Son, how did they make the rest of them incorruptible and all that?

Is all GK geneseed Thousand Sons geneseed?

>MUH BR
Seriously, why everyone in this thread even gives a fuck about chapter made for some shitty vidiya?

>>50878649
The Flesh Change broke his body down to mush and that mush was reformed into a new being.

Whatever geneseed in him must have been destroyed or tainted beyond recovery by what happened. Not like this will matter, this new being will be implanted with the Emprah's geneseed.

>>50878681
Wasn't the implication that the Knights Errant became the Grey Knights? It could be that multiple legions' gene seeds are used or spliced together.

>>50878667
If Ianius is untainted by the flesh change, it's likely the BR also were descended from him.

>>50878681
The Founding members of the Grey Knights come from different Legions. Their legion geneseed was removed and they were implanted with the geneseed of the Emperor.

>>50878703
>Whatever geneseed in him must have been destroyed or tainted beyond recovery by what happened.
I think it would be prudent to wait for a biopsy report.

>>50878549

>The Flesh Change wasn't cured.

We don't know that. We only know that the Blood Ravens past is shrouded in mystery and that at some point millennia ago, the Blood Ravens shared a secret research station with the Eldar.

>>50878602

Magnus was too dependent on using the Warp as a means to an end. Malcador, the wisest man to have ever lived, is nevertheless still just a man. Ahriman technically cured it, with horrible results. A cure is possible, but it will definitely require more than sheer technological force or pure hocus pocus.

>>50878809
>the Blood Ravens shared a secret research station with the Eldar.

Source? And don't dare say Goto.

>>50878710

The Knights Errant was a force tasked with saving Terra and humanity at the siege of Terra. Once Malcador died and the traitors were beaten back to the Eye, the Knights Errant were probably reformed into the Grey Knights or inspired the Grey Knights order.

>>50878862

CSGoto

>>50878889
You do know that his Dawn of War series books were removed from BL's site? The only books that got booted off the site for non-copyright reasons.

>>50878917
MULTI
LASERS

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>>50878317
In my defence, he'd already been mentioned by name earlier even if only in a filename.
>He hates that!
I dunno, the necrodermis thing seems to have struck a nerve if he's still bringing it up in completely unrelated contexts months later, possibly because of the personal aspect.

>>50878701
>chapter made for some shitty vidiya
From the information we have, Vidya didn't found the Chapter, and he most certainly wasn't shitty.

>>50878985
No, Warrior Brood is still there.

>>50879191
It's very related it shows you are willing to ignore sources that disagree with you, to push your point of view like that anon accused you of. People must know of your disgraceful behavior and not trust anything you say. This is the LEAST of your lies.

Not to mention it was incredibly stupid (and funny) to say that necrodermis was not living metal.

>>50879245
>that anon
Really.

>Not to mention it was incredibly stupid (and funny) to say that necrodermis was not living metal.
But I never said that.

>>50878875
>Knights Errant were probably reformed into the Grey Knights or inspired the Grey Knights order.
No. You haven't studied your fluff well enough.
Knights Errant were instrumental in collecting the people to form the GK and some of them (like Rubio) probably also became GK.
However,
- Titan was dropped into the warp before the heresy was over and before Malcador's death.
- The 8 founding members of the GK were presented to the emperor. There were many more Knights Errant.
- One other thing is that GK are required to be psykers, and we know for sure that many Knights Errant like Garro, Varren and Bror Tyrfingr weren't.

We simply don't know what happened to the bulk of the Knights Errant after the heresy.
Assuming they didn't all get killed in the siege of terra they could have gone on to form their own regular SM chapters (a good candidate for such a chapter would be the Red Hunters http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Red_Hunters).
Another possibility is that they became inquisitors (though I don't think I've ever heard of an Astartes inquisitor).

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>>50879269
And now who's hit a nerve, eh?

>>50879275
Loken wasn't a psyker either btw.

>>50879339
Then why did he keep seeing ghosts? Checkmate.

>>50879349
Because he was nuts.
No sane man would side with the tyrannical Emperor against the magnificent Warmaster.

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>>50851822
N-nice

bimp

>>50878549
The flesh change was cured though? All remaining TS are cured of the flesh change and we now they that recruit just fine.

There is no evidence that the rubric cured those off Prospero however it could have.

>>50880468
>The flesh change was cured though?

It wasn't. Tzeentch brought it back during the HH

Ahriman's Rubric after the HH was meant to cure it.

>>50880562
>Ahriman's Rubric after the HH was meant to cure it.
Ah.. so yes it was cured.

>>50880568
It was bypassed. No flesh = no flesh change.

>>50880652
Why are you talking about lore you dont know about Anon? TS Sorcerers are not dust bins they are flesh and blood.

>>50880664
Only the most gifted of the TS survived the Rubric. A handful of them. Some of mediocre and weak sorcerer also became Rubric marines.

Not enough to create a chapter.

>>50881047
How is that relevant?

Besides that is only a BL source not a codex one. WoM has way more sorcs and rubric marines attacking then the BL novel allows for.

>>50881113
>WoM has way more sorcs and rubric marines attacking then the BL novel allows for.

WoM is the source that confirms that low tier and mid tier sorcerers were to weak to endure the Rubric.

And BL is the only source with the BR = TS "connections". Discard one thing and you might as well discard all of it. The Raven cult or whatever that was sent off Prosporo would be reduced to like a score of marines if the Rubric hit them.

>>50882203
> reduced to like a score of marines if the Rubric hit them.
So long as you have a surviving marine with progenoids intact, it should be theoretically possible to rebuild a chapter from it.

Additionally, while BL is often contested, it seems presumptuous to simply disregard everything written if some things are not to one's liking.

It's also not as if connections between BR and TS are limited to books. Currently, Gabriel Angelos should have no reason not to look like his cyborg self from the end of Retribution, but now stylistically looks similar to Magnus the Red, what with the lack of an eye that he keeps shut.

>>50868202
>Implying than I have 2 pounds.

GTFO richfag.

>>50875739
>then once again Russ and Nikaea are proven wrong.

Is there any doubt at this point? or ever for that matter?

>>50882300
>So long as you have a surviving marine with progenoids intact, it should be theoretically possible to rebuild a chapter from it.

I don't think so. The Astral Knights were reduced to a couple of marines and it was said to be impossible to rebuild them.

>but now stylistically looks similar to Magnus the Red

Relic have been pushing their agenda for too long.

>>50882655
>The Astral Knights were reduced to a couple of marines and it was said to be impossible to rebuild them.

Not immediately, no, but so long as you have living space marines, who can continue to donate gene seeds over a course of time, you can accumulate them to have enough for a chapter.

>Relic have been pushing their agenda for too long.

But as it is, this is canon.

>>50882698
>But as it is, this is canon.

No proof.

> but so long as you have living space marines

Not enough geneseed to build a chapter though.

>>50882751
>Not enough geneseed to build a chapter though.
Again, not immediately, but marines do have two progenoids, one of which is harvested, and regrown, so after several harvests, you'd be able to collect a lot of gene seeds.

>No proof.
Published material isn't canon anymore?

>>50882779
A score of marines do not live long enough to produce a chapter worth of marines by their own.

Or else the Astral Knights, Scythes of the Emperor, and Imperial Fists would have been considered dead chapters beyond rebuilding.

>Published material isn't canon anymore?

What published material?

>>50882815
marines normally don't live long if they are constantly deployed for combat duty, granted, but keeping them out of active combat for continuous harvesting under strenuous circumstances may be possible.

Take, for example, that one blood raven librarian who was stationed at Rahe's Paradise for research purposes who hadn't seen combat in a long period of time.

>What published material?
Are DoW games considered canon?

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>>50879399
Get out

>>50878493
>This alone disproves the Blood Raven being TS.
So you know every single thing that happened in their past? This is a bold claim, specially when ADB whined about Relic/THQ stating that they wanted the Blood Ravens to be TS descendants.

We dont know exactly how they excaped flesh change, my theory is that when the gaze of tzeench was on them they had flesh change. And tzeench's gaze went to the planet of the sorcerers, far away from where the TS that where to become BR where.

>>50882853
>continuous harvesting
Anon, a single marine has 2 progenoid glands, one taken after ten years, the other taken upon his death. There is no "harvesting".
>>50882815
No mention of Celestial Lions, asshole?

>>50883595
the harvesting I refer to is the on you take every ten years.

>>50867334
No. He's dead.

>>50882815
>A score of marines do not live long enough to produce a chapter worth of marines by their own.
They can and do. What's relevant is the pedigree of the chapter in question.

tiger claws vs crimson fists

>>50883692
Except Tiger Claws' efforts had been sabotaged by Huron's scheming.

>>50883614
yeah, the longer the marines live the stronger the chapter becomes in geneseed.

So if I got the book right, the tutelaries are not daemons of Tzeentch as first thought, but... aspects of the shattered Magnus? Similar to how most daemons are little aspects of the big four.

And they exist outside of time, which is why they were able to bound with the legionnaries. So now there's a big time paradox.

That's pretty cool.

>>50878917
what other ones have been booted?

>>50882471
>or ever for that matter?
Nikaea was right before they retconned it.

>>50884503
This make it worst since it means Magnus is to blame of everything that happened since this Magnus shards plottted the fall of the thousand sons and force them to go haywire during the battle of Prospero.

>>50881047
So it's possible that Vidya was a powerful sorcerer that survived?

>>50884503
Ah wait.. Don't several of the remaining TS sorcerers still have their tutelaries?

And didn't the tutelaries turn on some of the members of the Sons during Prospero?

And wouldn't Magnus have studied the tutelaries properly before allowing his legion to use them? Even he knew of the danger of the warp entities and only used them as a last resort.

This sharding business creates so many issues.

>>50887395
It makes sense, on one hand Magnus is no forced to take the side of chaos/protect his own but on the other hand part of him will always be loyal to the Imperium

>>50888219
The tutelaries also killed a lot of wolves.

>>50888500
which makes sense if they are aspects of him, not all are in accord just as he is torn between duty to his sons and duty to the Imperium.

>>50877934

That really doesn't dispute it seemingly being unaffiliated with any of the gods. My point was that even though GW doesn't mention them as much or at all anymore, minor daemons who are unaffiliated with any of the gods may still exist and simply aren't touched upon because they're over shadowed by the gods and in the larger scheme of things don't really accomplish much.

>>50878125

>The Primarchs were vessels of the Emperor's hopes and dreams

The fact that he obliterated an entire city because one of those vessels didn't do what he wanted it to kind of flies in the face of that to me.

Master of Mankind aside, it's easy to see how the Emperor could have created the Primarchs not to embody the best of humanity, but simply be the correct tools he needed for the job. For example, besides being a general he probably intended for Lorgar as a master orator to help sway people into adopting the Emperor's beliefs.

>>50878701

Because memes and DoW brought a lot of people into 40k and the Blood Ravens are the protagonists of DoW. This leads people assuming or wanting the Blood Ravens to be among the tier one of Spaces Marines along with the First Founding Chapters who have their own codices and perhaps some others whereas the truth is they're probably closer to tier three along with the descendants of First Founding Chapters who have some smattering of lore.

>>50884503
>the tutelaries are not daemons of Tzeentch as first thought, but... aspects of the shattered Magnus?
Unlikely. Tutelaries existed way before the burning of Prospero.
We don't exactly know what they are. They could be unaligned daemons, or psychic constructs created by the owners of the the tutelaries themselves.

>>50884503
>>50887395
>>50887784
The tutelaries were clearly malevolent warp entities/demons, in Thousand Sons the tutelaries conveiently disappear back into the warp every time the Space Wolves show up.

>>50891520
then how does one explain Ianius?

>>50891520
Your conclusion doesn't follow from your evidence at all mate.

>>50891520
this

>>50879275

Astartes can specialize in bureacracy and paperwork, too. Theres nothing that says Knights Errant didn't all accept desk posts or inquisitor detective jobs as part of the Grey Knights support structure. Or did you think those servitors servicing the baby crib robots were all psykers, too?

>>50891619
>Ianius
We don't know what's his deal yet, let's wait and see what happens.

>>50887761

Theres nothing really known for certain about Vidya. The Chapter as it currently stands has no mutation issues like other Chapters which are constantly harassed by the Inquisition; so either the founders of the Chapter found a cure at some point, the founders replaced the Chapter's geneseed instead of using TS stock to avoid it, or the Chapter aren't made from TS loyalists.

>>50892145

Hes a psyker and Malcador has to put him to use. Its pretty obvious where his fate lies.

>>50892178
Or the rubric cured ALL TS gene seed. There isn't proof of this but it could have happened. It's certainly being implied that it was Tzeentchs influence causing the flesh change from the beginning and perhaps the rubric ended that.

>>50892145
>Janus
>Psyker
>Working for Malcador

Yeah he totes wont be a Grey Knight, nope!.

The next time someone mentions the the HH series was all planned and is a cohesive work I'll show them Arvida. The amount of BR implications this guy has had and them now backing away from it is a joke.

>>50889250
>Unlikely. Tutelaries existed way before the burning of Prospero.

As I said, time paradox. Malcador postulates that the tutelaries were born of the shattered Magnus, but at the same time they existed before anything would happen. Tzeentch's idea of "which came first, the chicken or the egg."

>>50891520
Them betraying the TS doesn't preclude any of this though. They also disappear every time Magnus is around.

So they disappear any time their progenitor is around and when the legion that inflicted misery on him is around. Checks out.

Or maybe not, Malcador could be full of shit. But that's how he sees it.

>>50892178
The Blood Ravens aren't descended from the Thousand Sons, it's as simple as that. ADB already said it.

>>50881113

Nigga, it's codex fluff. Read Wrath of Magnus and Traitor Legions.

>>50894702
this coming from the same guy who makes the Emperor and idiotic asshat who can't even beat up a single daemon? sure.

>>50897552

When wasn't the Emperor an idiotic asshat? At least now he's getting grief from daemons rather than throttled by orks.

>>50897571
you know, if you build up the Emps to be the greatest of mankind and the most powerful pskyer, it should at least fit into the narrative that he is actually a great leader of men and actually powerful enough to take on threats that even his sons could probably murderize.

>>50897644

The problem with /tg/ is that most people don't get Emps isn't about how strong he is. He's not a dbz character. He's a tragic character. He's always been defined by his failures. He wants to elevate humanity. He ends up reducing it to a dystopia. He wants humanity not to rely on religious dogma. He ends up creating the most dogmatic theocracy humanity has ever known. He wants humanity not to rely on superhumans. Civilisation relies on superhumans more than ever.

He's always been a tragic failure who suffers an ironic fate due to hubris and playing God.

>>50897832
I'm not arguing that he's not a prideful individual leading to tragedy, but even then, you can have such figures still being portrayed as intelligent and relatable, and this doesn't take away from the other point where he, being the most powerful psyker ever, couldn't take on piddly ass daemons that his sons break over their knees.

>>50897832
>>50898087
it's a lack of believable consistency

>>50898087

It wasn't a piddly ass daemon. It was the original murder made manifest. Even Sangy got bopped by a thirster.

>>50898358
it's piddly ass in comparison. I mean, you needed to have four chaos gods possess a suped up Horus to beat big E, so this shouldn't have been a problem.

>>50898591

Horus was still a mortal with boons from the Gods. I don't see why a daemon as old as humanity couldn't be strong as him.

>>50898621
yes, but he got possessed by all four chaos gods.

He had the power of all four gods.

If all it took was one or two subordinate daemons to do the job, then there would have been no need for this possession bullshit

>>50863766
Janus was reported to be an immense psyker. Yeah I like the idea of omegon being the first grand master of the GKs but this makes a lot more sense.

>>50898651

>He had the power of all four gods.

He didn't though. Being manipulated by the gods isn't the same as having their power.

>>50866126
>>50866169
Nvm they are a chimeric chapter.

>>50875352
I would like to agree with you but the primarch project failed when they were cast away in the warp. They were to human, if they had grown up on Terra and the Emps raised them as he wanted to it would be different.

>>50878710
I believe the KEs helped trained the GKs but arent part of it as they are all psykers. Malcador plunged titan into the warp for a thousand years and that's plenty of time for the knights to die off. Not to mention that the Grey Knights have an entirely new gene seed.

>>50898087
Emps was probably tired from, ya know, holding the webway together for who knows how long when MoM came out. If he'd had a drawn out fight the the first murder demon he might not have been able to participate in the fight with Horus. Might not even been able to reliably hold the webway close.

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>>50898927
>Horus wasn't posessed!
Wat

>>50898927
All lore we have on the final battle says he was possessed by then

>>50899421
>he strike [sic] one deadly blow

lmao

he hurr and then durr

>>50899421
New fluff. Horus wasn't possessed. He gained his power from Molech.

>>50899732
That's still two years before the Siege of Terra. Chaos could easily take greater control over him in that time.

Tell me why you guys love this book series still?

>>50899732
>implying the gods didn't trick him into thinking he earned his powers.

>>50899771
I have daddy issues and the HH series is the ultimate coming of age story

>>50899474

Goulding explicitly said they are rewriting the old lore, and to not hold it as canon.

>>50900035
He's been saying it repeatedly for the last three years, but people still think the series is supposed to match what's come before.

>>50892239
>Tzeentchs influence caused the flesh change

Here's a thought; perhaps the flesh change is less of a gene seed problem and more of a Tzeentch problem. If the BR had no association or contact with bird brains then they'd be free of that curse. They didn't cure it, they simply freed themselves from its cause.

This would also mean that if they did become his focus, the flesh change would be upon them immediately. Simply discovering their TS heritage could be enough to curse the entire chapter.

>>50899421

Everytime I imagine those unspoken words in that battle I catch the feels.

Then I am reminded that chaos advocates are just pawns and to be chaos is to be devoid of will.

>>50892104


Fucking nope. This is the absolute dumbest headcannon I've ever read.

Not a single astartes specializes in paperwork.

I'm sorry but I hope you stub your fucking toe today for saying something so fucking stupid

>>50899771
all the interesting background fluff, especially the stuff about Terra/how the different branches function and the unification wars.

>>50858323
Anyone have this? Or any of the rest of the new christmas stuff?

>>50901720
>>
>Not a single astartes specializes in paperwork.
There's that Mortifactor Chapter Master sitting on his throne doing nothing all day. Or is he?

Also one of two CMs of White Consuls serves as a statesman while the other is a warlord.

>>50898651
>If all it took was one or two subordinate daemons to do the job, then there would have been no need for this possession bullshit
what if there are daemons more powerful than the chaos gods. the Echo isn't ever described as being at all beholden to any of the gods. maybe some concepts are so primal their warp manifestation can be on par with or supersede the gods.

>>50904610
if they were more powerful than the chaos gods, then they'd BE the chaos gods and wouldn't be subservient to Tzeentch or khorne or nurgle or slaanesh.

>>50904654
yea thats what im saying, i dont think it was mentioned that drach'nyen is subservient to any chaos gods, he just exists to fuck with humanity. i'd guess if anything he'd be khornate but he doesn't really act like a bloodthirster or anything. i like the idea of there being daemons formed from acts of such significance that they exist parallel or above the normal "order" of chaos.

>>50904798
but if they were powerful enough to match the other gods, they'd probably embody something and spend their time playing the Great Game against the other four.

>>50904837
But the murder daemon is one of them. The first murderer was Cain = Khaine = Khorne.

>>50904930
right, so he can't be more powerful than Khorne if he's part of Khorne's domain.

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>>50904952
>you

>>50904975
no, YOU!

>>50904837
i think its a matter of scope. khorne and the other gods are manifestation of broad ideas/feelings and thus they have a wider range of "interests" leading to them playing the Great Game. drach comes from a singular event and is likewise much more narrow in focus.

>>50905031
the thing is, because of that narrowness, he's should not be as powerful as any of the four (or five).

>>50905061
Yeah you're right I give up, I can never beat your knowledge pulled right out of Uranus.

>>50905098
What are you complaining about? It's where you learned your shit.

>>50905126
No, that's your head.

>>50905145
I think you meant Urectum

>>50900035
Goulding can choke on dicks for all I care, that story is probably the best fluff ever written for 40k

>>50866082

For the Emperor's Children it's [spoilers]semen [/spoilers]

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>>50868202

What the fuck are pounds?

WE SPEAK AMERICAN IN AMERICA

>>50905061
maybe he's like autistically good at fucking up humanity's shit, which at that moment meant fighting the emperor and not getting insta-gibbed whereas khorne and co. can fight at around the emps level while still being able to have other hobbies like the Great Game and so forth.

also i'd like to thank the >>50905098
shitposter for his valuable insight.

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>>50905392
>trump as the Emperor
>mfw

>>50906991
have you been living under a rock? god-emperor trump meme has been on like CNN and shit

>>50905392
I'm looking forward to all the american cunts who voted for him losing their shit :>

>>50904798
End of Empires was Chaos Undivided. The novel said so. It was kindred with all the daemons of Chaos because the First Murder had all emotions that represent Chaos. Anger, despair, hope, and excess.

>>50853071
God I hate people who abbreviate character names. It implies a level of familarity that's just not there. Same goes for people who use the first names of celebrities.

>>50904798

I'll admit I sort of like ADB's idea of events and actions giving birth to daemons too, seems to be in line with what was said in the Realm of Chaos books.

>>50905307

It's nice, but it's portrayal of the Emperor doesn't necessarily match up with what came afterwards. Are we supposed to believe that the Emperor portrayed there is the same man who would blow up an entire city probably kill at least some of its inhabitants simply because one of his generals was dragging his ass?

>>50907152

It's a disgusting example /pol/ once again corrupting something, like they did with Momiji.

>>50906991
I love how clueless people are with that. Both famous God-Emperors from fiction (dune and 40k) are horrible dictators who created dystopias in the name of necessity.

>>50908954
>It's a disgusting example /pol/ once again corrupting something, like they did with Momiji.
I get a kick out of it. Authoritarian monster with delusions of grandeur who fucks it all up. The only difference is the delusions.

>It's nice, but it's portrayal of the Emperor doesn't necessarily match up with what came afterwards. Are we supposed to believe that the Emperor portrayed there is the same man who would blow up an entire city probably kill at least some of its inhabitants simply because one of his generals was dragging his ass?
Compassionate for his Son, one of the few to understand him somewhat but not the faceless masses? I can believe it.