OSR General - Christmas Eve edition

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My Christmas gift to you all; 50 ways to prepare your daily spells.

>>50850658
I just skimmed it, but there seems to be a disturbing amount of sexual things in that list.

Challenge to /osrg/: turn this game into an OSR-style module, preferably in DCC or S&W
http://store.steampowered.com/app/402880/

(And do try to look past the uneven translations into English - the developer is an Italian who made the game nearly solo.)

Rolled 34 (1d50)

>>50850658

Anybody got a good list of cantrips? I don't think I can convince my players to be MUs if they can only cast a spell a day.

>>50850683
Three is not a disturbing amount.

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>>50850809
Just let them ask for stuff.

>>50850809

Let them cast as many spells as they want each day but in order to refill them it takes one turn of preparation/one wandering monster check.

>>50850809
Here's a thing:
To cast more spells per day they must ingest some obscure drug substance, like good ol' purple lotus powder, quicksilver, or Slaanesh's breast milk.
One dose per day is safe, but take more - and you'll have to deal with some consequences(possibly save vs Magic to avoid?).

>>50850884
To be fair, that actually works pretty well with vancian magic.
Take drugs -> develop drug resistance -> be able to take more drugs(aka more spell slots) -> Bam! Crazy hardcore junkies - No sense of right and wrong!

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New combat system.

Base AC is 9
Armor comes in 3 levels;
>Light Armor grants no AC bonus but grants +2 to combat saves
>Medium armor grants +1 AC and -1 to combat saves
>Heavy Armor grants +2 AC and -2 to combat saves
If you are using a shield, add your Con bonus to AC
If you are using a one handed weapon or duel wielding, add your Dex bonus to AC
If you are using a two handed weapon you don't get a bonus to AC, but add strength mod to damage

Roll 2d10 to attack. If you roll multiples, use the best two
Every 10 you roll on your combat die grant +1 damage

If you roll doubles you can put the enemy in a spot which either grants +1d10 to next attack roll, +1d4 damage (if unsuccessful this is wasted), reduce enemy AC by -1 or puts them in a spot such as a trip, disarm, blind, etc. The second option grants a combat save. If you roll triples, add +2 to combat save difficulty, quads is +4, etc.

Fighters get an additional attack die every level.

>r8 my homebrew

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>>50850809
Here's a list of cantrips I appropriated / modified / invented. Regardless of your level, you can cast 4 cantrips per day.

>>50851084
I feels like it's going to be pretty easy to get hit and hit foes.

>>50851446

I'd like to think the curve of using two dice means hitting higher AC is harder. Fighter types will be doing more beefy damage and combat moves, which fits them well.

>>50851489
Well i see no problem with it but remember that it's a double edged sword, you will give more dmg but also take more dmg.

I am interested into crossgenre modules like Expedition to Barrier Peaks and Temple of the Frog.
There is any recent material dealing with high-tech/sci-fi elements appearing in a sword & sorcery world?

>>50851084
I liked the initial idea of different mods to AC, but as for your other changes...

There's sort of two approaches to D&D combat: easy to hit, lots of hit points and hard to hit, few hit points. Generally oldschool D&D falls in the latter category, while modern in the former, although any D&D does the first one on high levels.

A lot of the tension of low levels comes from the swinginess of d20. Once it connects, somebody is probably dead. And If you don't adjust hit points, lethality on both sides will be pretty staggering.

From what you've written and assuming B/X modifiers, maximum possible player's AC is 14. I don't know how do you deal with monsters, but I assume it's something similar. It's incredibly easy to hit the average AC, and
>Fighters get an additional attack die every level
statistically turns Fighter into an unstoppable murder machine as early as level 3.

Various stunts on doubles are okay, but all the other changes are problematis to me.

Also I don't like armor modifying saves, but then again I'm not sure what do you mean by "combat save".

>>50851658
Misty Isles of Eld, Anomalous Subsurface Environment. Dungeon of Signs blog has brilliant short adventures related to ASE too.

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I really want to make an OSR setting (using my homebrew blend of ACKS and Dark Dungeons) that is developed from a starting frame and then building out with gazeteers for each major region. Only problem is that I cant figure out how many of those I want/need. I keep bouncing between 13 or 16. How many nations/regions do you think would be good for a region approximately the size of New England plus New York, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Maryland Ohio and West Virginia combined?

>>50851658
Also Astonishing Swordsmen & Sorcerers of Hyperborea has some of that 70's "mix sci-fi and fantasy" vibe. Treasure tables have rayguns, stuff like that.

>>50852279
Not really feeling like doing math right now, but this has been my holy bible for setting design for the past several years:

http://www222.pair.com/sjohn/blueroom/demog.htm

>>50851738
>>50852283
Thank you, noble anons.
I know that you can always rely on the civil OSR posters.
You are awesome and I wish you a merry holydays and happy new year 2017.

So what was the deal with old school D&D stuff describing damage with range rather than die, like for example writing "2-12 damage" rather than "2d6 damage"?

>>50852702
I think that it simply was that the standardized dice notation we use today hadn't been invented yet.

>>50852737
Oh yeah, that makes sense. When was that invented anyway?

>>50852890
...I'm not sure, actually. We need some True AD&D History Scholars here.

As far as I can tell, AD&D (1978) doesn't use it, but B/X (1981) starts to introduce it by using both notations side by side:

"Damages are always listed in the order of the attacks. For example, a cave bear has 3 attacks (2 claws and 1 bite); its attacks will do damages of 1-8 (1d8) points from each claw and 2-12 (2d6) points from the bite. This is listed as 1-8/1-8/2-12."

So, somewhere in between. Maybe discussed in a zine?

>>50852953
Maybe Moldvay came up with it?

>>50852279
I would suggest starting smaller. I know all too well the desire to make a huge sprawling setting right out of the gate, but you'll get a better handle on your setting if you focus on a relatively small area, and develop the mood and atmosphere by running a campaign in it.

Let neighboring kingdoms be a single sentence sketch for now.

>>50850837
Hilariously unbalanced.

>>50850837
This, but the wandering monster is a demon/transplanar critter with 1d8*[spell level] HD.

>>50852953
>True AD&D History Scholars
I wonder if True AD&D Anon knows the answer?

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>>50852279
It's really entirely up to you; that's an area slightly greater than modern France. On the one hand, France is one country now; on the other hand, pic related is a map of the Holy Roman Empire in the year 1400.

Similarly, in the earlier middle ages especially, just because a realm had one "king", that didn't mean it was recognizably a single nation or that the barons were supremely obedient. In many cases, like Burgundy during long periods, even when areas were nominally parts of a larger nation they were entirely independent in practice anyway.

>>50852982
Maybe, but there's no proof of that. This is really a neat bit of history trivia I'd like to know.

>>50853438
True AD&D Anon has a direct line of access to the Gygaxian Record. He knows everything.

>>50852702
>>50852737
This, but I also think it's because when OD&D was first published, there wasn't widespread awareness/availability of polyhedral dice (cf instructions for making number spinners, and so on).

Also, I'm pretty sure the "3-18" notation persisted into at least parts of 2E AD&D (the Monstrous Manual, maybe?), because that's what I started out with and I remember having to work out die-throw bounds in order to make sense of it.

Lastly I think the "3d6" notation was almost certainly coined in some fanzine, I'd probably say Alarums and Excursions if I had to guess. Let me check my copy of PATW to see if it says anything about it.

>>50853799
Update: the book let me down, but the blog came through:
playingattheworld.blogspot.co.nz/2013/08/the-origins-of-dice-notation.html


Footnote: I am not True AD&D. That guy's weird.

>>50846655
>The purple prose and "Bakerisms" come off as Vancian/CAS-esque to me, which helped the mood as far as I was concerned. Then again, it's also why people hate Vance..
I love Vance, though. As far as that goes, I think the main flaw of the prose is that it doesn't manage "Vancian", although that's an extremely hard thing to do which I would probably only credit Arnold Punch of being capable of, in the present OSR scene. What aggravates me about Baker and the way he writes is more like a pervading smarm which I think might be the product of a bunch of indiegamers sucking his dick and calling him a genius all the time: he presents pretty mediocre ideas but speaks to the reader as though they're groundbreaking. He'll sidebar a "have you thought of THIS?" bit where the "this" in question is something obvious that anybody who's run two sessions has obviously done, he gives refereeing advice that's plain bad, etc. There's also the obviously political-but-with-plausible-deniability shit he keeps inserting; I genuinely like stuff like "androgynous kabbalistic vat-being" in games, but that doesn't mean I'm too stupid to tell when I'm having shit pushed on me for ideological reasons, or that it doesn't annoy me.

In contrast somebody like Zak writes in a much more down to earth "hey man, what do you think of this? Might be cool, right?" tone about stuff that's *mind blowing*.

<cont'd>

>>50854347
>>50846655
>Oh, and what the fuck is up with the missing description of the ages of a Seclusium and the shitty maps?
The ages of the Seclusium is a prime example of Bakery fail, if you ask me: I think that shit's deliberate. Notice how he mentions the name of each phase at least once, but out of order, and they all have "evocative" names? From reading it (and reexamining it just now) I'm convinced he's trying to do a "fruitful void"/terse-information style letting you infer the rest, sort of like how Wilderlands of High Fantasy works. He just picked the exact wrong space for it and also just can't pull it off *at all*. Because he's not good.

On the other hand the shitty maps are for real a mystery of our time. If he wants us to fill in and detail the rooms in Orphone's seclusium, why is the central tower a three-millimeter-wide dot? And who made the decision do make the other two maps unusably vague? Was it Raggi? It seems to contradict every principle of his designs and typical quest for top quality, though. Or Baker? If so, what did *he* think he was achieving?

>>50853438
>>50852953
>>50853678
True AD&D will provide the answer, but only if one spends 5 minutes per spell level praying for the answer. True AD&D will grant you spells, and spell out the answers to your questions.

One will find modules with damage listed in range form. Check old AD&D 1E modules for such. Publications in Dragon Magazine may also opt for this method. It's a decidedly "old school" manner of dice range nomenclature that required knowledge of the game in order to parse. So the oldheads would use it in order to force users of their content to know what they're doing. Could get somewhat hairy when there was a strange bonus or penalty to the dice...6–21 damage per attack, go.

>>50853799
>>50854125
What's weird is thinking that xdy notation came a decade after Gygax went Hollywood and advancing it as a theory.

>>50850809
Best of Dragon Magazine #3 has a bunch of cantrips in it.

>>50854561
>hollywood
Dungeons and Dragons 3 by Uwe Boll when

>>50854561
>What's weird is thinking that xdy notation came a decade after Gygax went Hollywood and advancing it as a theory.
Yes, that would be weird if anybody had claimed it.

Where did they, though?

>thinking about splitting lycanthropy into two separate curses, one causing mental transformation and the other physical
>looking though Dragon issues
>find an article form the 70s that did this

Felt nice, like I was connecting with the author across almost 40 years because of a silly elfgame.

>>50854537
>6–21 damage per attack, go.
3d6+3

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>>50854347
>In contrast somebody like Zak writes in a much more down to earth "hey man, what do you think of this? Might be cool, right?" tone about stuff that's *mind blowing*.
Truth. He has his own quirks I don't like (obsession with crystallized Time, anyone?), but holy damn. As for Baker, I'm kind of used to "HOLY SHIT you guys, have you ever tried basing things off of the characters' professions?" Arrogant stoners are kinda a given in the OSR biz..

I'm also evaluating Seclusium in a vacuum - I'm not really familiar with Baker's other work (nor do I particularly care to be). I just enjoy the utility for rolling up stories, places, and magic items. Based on the conversations I've had about it with other OSR folks, Seclusium is kinda like the new Ghostbusters flick - a solid "6.5" in a world where people are demanding it get a "10" or a "2" based on their opinions of its meta-elements.

>>50854375
>If so, what did *he* think he was achieving?
I suspect it's in imitation of B1, that "teach you by filling in the blanks" thing. But by abandoning the first map it kind of obviates the whole process, since there's no example to work from with the second and third Seclusiae.

I also know Raggi was pressed for time when they were doing the book [pic related], since Brockie was still kicking at that point and it was one of the first things to come out of the crowdfunding campaign. They needed something to show that they were working on our product.Seclusium happened to be the thing that got thrown under the "it's publishable" bus. And it was. Just not as good as it could have been with more polishing and someone to fill the 15 blank pages or pull a couple pages of repetitive bullshit.

>>50854654
>I'm pretty sure the "3-18" notation persisted into at least parts of 2E AD&D (the Monstrous Manual

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>>50850809
I let my players use these at the table.

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This is...really good. I love it.

>>50855061
I think he was just saying that the old style was left over in some AD&D products long after it had been superseded, not that XdY notation *originated after 2E*.

Does anyone have a good AC chart for converting between rulesets? I had one and can't find it.

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Why haven't you re-fluffed elf the racial class as a magic swordsman?

>>50851658
>Expedition to Barrier Peaks and Temple of the Frog


Speaking of these, how easily would they transfer over to a game of Mutant Future?

>>50855616
Probably easy as hell since both use descending AC. MF characters do have waaaaaay more HP than standard characters at their level would, however.

>>50855254
Me too. Sadly I don't have anyone to use it with. At least the art is really personable and fun to look at.

>>50855672
>MF characters do have waaaaaay more HP than standard characters at their level would, however.

There are rules for running MF characters as more like B/X race/class characters in the back of MF.

What is the best module for a first time DM? Newbie players, too.

Does anyone have DCC #87 'Against The Atomic Overlord'?

>>50855839
Tower of the Stargazer.

>>50855839
You'd need to adapt it but I really like A Dark and Stormy Knight it's a 3.5 adventure.

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Anyone made custom classes for LotFP?

>>50855879
>>50856079
Old school modules would be appreciated (pre 1990).

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>>50856179
>Anyone made custom classes for LotFP?
Savage.
• HP, XP as Dwarf.
• Add Con bonus to all physical saving throws, subtract it from Disease and Magic throws
• Assorted social penalties in "civilized" areas. Basically, more intimidating but likely to get treated like an animal/property/curio than a person. Which can be advantageous when you're infiltrating..
• Automatically speaks a Pidgin trade-language and native language, regardless of intelligence.
• The Savage also gains a +1 to learn languages, but must roll separately for literacy when checking for knowledge at normal skill level.
• In multi-national parties, pick another player to be your partner. They automatically speak your native language, and will generally be treated as your owner/handler in public situations.
• Large list of taboos to choose from. No serious mechanical penalties, most of the time.
• Starting skills: Bushcraft/Seamanship and Stealth 3 (as Dwarf Arch. skill)
May swap for Occult and Physic 3. Witch Doctors suffer additional penalties if they break taboos.

I just don't like "berzerkers" being all the barbarians out there. This fits the Pacte Des Loups [ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmbC2XZWZA8 ] mold so much better. If you haven't seen the flick, it's one of my favorite OSR movies; even has a dungeon crawl in it. It's up there with The 13th Warrior and Witchfinder General on the list of films that make me want to play D&D RIGHT THE FUCK NOW WHERE ARE MY DICE.
Note: contains incest, occultists, and a whole shitload of French politics. It's still pretty great.

>>50856218
Any of the first 4 basic series seem like a good place to look then.

I've only used B4 The Lost City tho. Its straight forward, but has lots of stuff for the players to get involved in faction wise. Its got a good reason for everyone to be there (starving in the desert), and sets up a megadungeon if you want.

>>50851722

Alternate idea; Fighter gets BONUS combat die equal to level minus enemy HD, while they also have 3 as a base.

So instead of just having 7 die to throw around at level 5, they would only get 7 versus first level enemies. Then against enemies of the same or greater level, back down to 3.

Or could just keep them at 3 fighting die but give them +1 damage per level or something.

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Added a teensy update to my Ruinations homebrew.

>https://www.docdroid.net/FrxCKOl/ruinations.pdf.html

>>50856415
>Brotherhood of the Wolf
>shitload of French politics
Explain. Are you just referring to the historical setting of the frame story in the Revolution or what?

>my shitbrew almost has enough content completed and converted to be playable

The OGL is a lifesaver.

>>50850761
Hair braider

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>>50856415
Ran out of space there.
Anyway.

Savages Save as a Fighter.

I wanted to get something as iconic to 15th-19th century literature as the Specialist/Mage/Knight Templar/Soldier are. Both occult dabblers and Witch Doctors seemed better served by making a skill available to Specialists or just using Mages than by a new class. Same goes for the mad scientist/alchemist. Even pirates are basically just giving a Fighter or Specialist some Seamanship/Climb skill and cutting them loose. But The Chewbacca? Now there's something I can get behind. Plus it fits everything from Bedouin to Coast Salish.

...Also I'm stealing the Musketeer class and maybe the Kenku from that pdf. >>50856179

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>>50856563
Which I have mostly abandoned to work on The Rogue's March

>https://www.docdroid.net/GtTDks6/trm-sample.pdf.html

Rolled 49 (1d50)

>>50850761
And crap. I've forgotten how to roll. I'll only make a second attempt before giving up.

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>>50856603
It's set before the Revolution by a good ways., during the early French and Indian Wars/pre-Seven Years' War. There's a bunch of political maneuvering in the film between the main characters, the antagonists (of which there are at least three) and within the French court that are important to the story. It's harder to get the full significance of some of what's going unless you're familiar with the era's political landscape. It's still a lot of fun without the knowledge, though.

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Do you prefer your thieves/specialists to explicitly and specifically be thieves or do you like it when they are more generalists or can learn multiple skills?

>>50856746
>It's set before the Revolution by a good ways
The main story is, sure. That's why I specififed the frame story, where the Marquis d'Apcher in his old age writes down the true story of the Beast so it'll be preserved, before leaving his house to be killed by the Jacobin mob.

>There's a bunch of political maneuvering in the film
Right ,so you were referring to the plot itself, then I'm on the same page with you. I thought you meant that the film contained references to contemporary French politics of the time when it was made. You know, some shit about Chirac or something.

>>50856844
Prefer explicit thieves. I know the LotFP one is praised for making them broader, but personally I don't like that part of it at all. Not only because I don't know of any good reason why sage skills should be handled by the same system as a quasi-supernatural ability to conceal oneself in a mere shadow, but it also *removes* that very quasi-supernatural nature to make the skills merely mundane boosts to rolled abilities that everyone has, which I consider SAD! and LOW ENERGY!, and it also conflicts with my preferred playstyle of normal hiding etcetera being a case of narration.

On top of that I feel like generalist stuff detracts from the Thief archetype, which is really strong in sword-and-sorcery fiction.

(Oh, and by the way, what's up with the Flame Princess supposedly being a Specialist canonically? She looks like an obvious Fighter to me. Did she just sink all her points into Backstab or something?)

>The Charisma (Cha) score measures a character's persuasiveness, personal magnetism, and ability to lead.

This implies that high Cha entails high self-confidence, which entails stronger willpower. But:

>Wisdom (Wis) describes a composite of the character's enlightenment, judgment, guile, willpower, common sense, and intuition.

Willpower seems like the odd man out in the Wis tent. I've half a mind to shift some of the high Wis bonuses to Cha instead.

>>50856415

>Le Pactes des Loups

My melanin enriched brother. My homebrew campaign (that I've mentioned several times in /osrg/ is inspired by a combination of that movie and my fascination with the Aztecs. The main country that most of the action that has taken place so far is more or less fantasy France.

>>50856844
I have two Specialists in my game. One is a full blown thief, with points in Sleight-of-Hand, Tinkering and Stealth etc. The other is like, a Relic Hunter. Lotsa points in Search and Languages, Climbing etc.

>>50856937
But LotFP specifically states that hiding is NOT a supernatural ability.

Hiding typically is handled no-roll via narration ("I quietly hide in the wardrobe furniture-closet as I hear people approaching down the hall.") with Stealth rolls coming into play only when hiding somewhere risky (under a simple table, in a shadowy corner etc).

>>50857134
>But LotFP specifically states that hiding is NOT a supernatural ability.
That's what I said.
>it also *removes* that very quasi-supernatural nature to make the skills merely mundane boosts to rolled abilities that everyone has

>>50857225
Ah, my reading comprehension is shit today.

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really makes you think

>>50856958
I see it as Cha is entirely external, governing all social interaction - the only you way you get a sense of your charisma is through the reactions of others. Wisdom is entirely internal and the intuitive/emotional counterpart to intelligence.

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Anyone have these?

Finch - Demonspore
McKinney - Beneath the Ruins (LL)
Gillespie - Barrowmaze
SlaughterGrid (OSRIC)
Wormskin #1-4
WIZARDS MUTANTS LASER PISTOLS! VOLUME 1
F3 – Many Gates of the Gann (AD&D)
Moldvay - Palace of the Silver Princess
In Search of the Unknown

>>50857265
Huh, that's an interesting piece of history. Pretty funny how he didn't just make some tables to explain the concept even better.

Do you think I could share scans of my favorite Dragon articles on my blog without getting bullied by WOTC?

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Merry Christmas, /osr/.

Enjoy this little gift.

If you like it, please consider buying it on DTRPG to support yet another OSR module writer! (and attached artist)

>>50859466
Thank you anon! I'll look into the very slight conversions I will need to make this work in my game! Happy New Year btw

>>50859681
Same! this was designed for B/X and LL, by the way, so I trust it's going to be easily convertible.

>>50859382
Thanks amigo!

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>>50859736
Blend of Dark/Darker Dungeons, ACKS and a few houserules but yeah, all I'll need to do really is flip the AC's so that they scale up instead of down it looks like.

Do you use cardinal directions when describing a dungeon ("in this room, you see doors on the north and east") or relative ones ("in this room, you see doors front and right of you")

>>50860143
Cardinal if players know them (the entrance of the dungeon faced north and all walls and turns are 90 degrees, or they have a compass-like device, etc).

Usually relative.

>>50860143
Usually relative, sometimes cardinal if it's easier to describe and if the PCs should be able to know it.

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To keep a long story short, I ended up making a homebrew with my group that reduced all the classes down to just 3; Fighters, Experts, and Magicians.

The problem is that naturally the Wizards have lots of different options for what kind of character they want to make, as do the Specialists with their various skills. But then we have the poor Fighters who just linearly advance.

What are some alternate methods of making Fighters grow with level, preferably with player choice involved that doesn't boil down to feats or 'builds'? I don't think anyone hates linear fighters but it feels kind of boring if not downright unfair every other character gets to be special except the guy with the sword.

>>50860688

You can add weapon specialization, from various places (BECMI, RC, AD&D 1e, etc.). The temptation to allow other classes to specialize must be stamped down hard, however. Allowing everyone to specialize just makes the Fighter redundant.

So don't do it.

>>50860737
Fully agreed, and I'd also recommend that >>50860688 not use the level-1 rules from Weapon Mastery, but give the Fighter basic proficiency with every weapon on level 1. Otherwise Fighters get strictly worse to start with and then progress toward being heavily locked into one or a few specific weapons, which is an asspain.

Actually, it's enough of one that I'd recommend heavily houseruling the entire weapon-slot part of the system. But that might be beyond Anon's desired scope.

What's essential reading for someone who wants to homebrew a psionics system?

>>50860688
5e fighting styles? It's what I'm using.

>>50860737
>Allowing everyone to specialize just makes the Fighter redundant.
>So don't do it.

...At no point did I specify that other classes get to specialize into combat roles. How does a thief specializing in devices, ancient languages, or tracking make a fighting man redundant?

>>50860737
>>50860812
Weapon specialization was an alright idea and choice I had, but I also kind of dislike it. What if I want to include weird ass weapons like a pet slime on a rope or throwing-anus as cool things fighters find lying around? It just seems annoying. I don't really differentiate weapons based on type anyway beyond their damage die, so I'm not sure what the point of forcing people to specify into swords/axes/maces would be besides just to annoy fighter players.

>>50860891

I was simply warning you away from the possible temptation.

As far as weird weapons, you could allow the Fighter to simply use the specialization system to become better at fighting in general, rather than a specific weapon.

Frankly, it's Christmas Eve, so I'd like to just relax rather than dig through my books and find the best fitting weapon specialization rules, but I will offer some guidance:

As >>50860860 said, make Fighters proficient with all weapons to start (none of that weapon choice crap). Personally, I'd use weapon groups, allowing the Fighter to specialize in said groups, thus making their specialization broad enough to apply to several weapons, and giving them enough options to specialize in more than one group, so they could potentially become a pole-arm master and a throwing master, and when you surprise them with a throwing anus, they won't be shit out of luck.

>>50860688
Use the DCC mighty deed dice exclusively for fighters and increase their CRIT range to 19-20. Throw in a cleave rule too. Make them badasses.

>>50860688
Wizards should have choice of spells, experts should have choice of skills, and fighters should have choice of weapons.

>>50860688
Fighters naturally recruit armies.

File: Terrors & Wonders v0-0.pdf (1B, 486x500px)

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Alright, I was the shitbrewer who kept pestering everybody for the last few threads.

I know it's not great. I know it's not entirely OSR. I know that it reads like it was stapled together from several sources (it was). I just hope you find something interesting or useful in it. I only made it because I've been going through a depression episode for the past few weeks and I needed to create something, anything to convince myself of my self-worth.

Feel free to ask me any questions about it, I'll be lurking.

>>50861904
I know they wanted to avoid feats, but maybe also a choice of moves/techniques like disarms, or grappling or being a bare fisted brawler and among them would be specialising in a specific weapon, making you better with it.

>>50862189

It's clear that, even though unfinished, you've put a lot of work into this.

I'm curious why you chose to make the ability scores also saving throws. Granted, the classes are fairly low-level, but even so, that puts a lot more emphasis on good rolls at character creation, rather than character experience.

In the same vein, this choice also seems to complicate monster statistics, as rather than "save as [class]" they now need to have their ability scores created prior to play. While that is somewhat irrelevant if you're using them out of the book, if you want to convert monsters from another source, there needs to be some sort of guideline. (though, I did like the bit about monsters with 20 in an ability score automatically succeeding on those saves - puts a very hard cap on scores).

As for spells, something about the level dependent range and duration doesn't sit well with me. Even at 5th level, a magic user is only going to get an extra +10 ft. out of Unseen Servant, and Call Lightning goes from 110 ft. range, to 150 ft. range.

Seems like it doesn't really add anything, and is a vestigial element from 3rd edition/Pathfinder.

Lastly, why the action economy from 3.pf?

>>50862189
I loved the cover

>>50862976
Thanks for reading it.

>I'm curious why you chose to make the ability scores also saving throws. Granted, the classes are fairly low-level, but even so, that puts a lot more emphasis on good rolls at character creation, rather than character experience.
It's just something that sits well with me. I don't like the excess of saving throw types of older editions but at the same time Fort/Ref/Will feel like Con/Dex/Wis 2.0

>In the same vein, this choice also seems to complicate monster statistics, as rather than "save as [class]" they now need to have their ability scores created prior to play. While that is somewhat irrelevant if you're using them out of the book, if you want to convert monsters from another source, there needs to be some sort of guideline.
I have some rough guidelines for 3.PF which can also apply to older editions. Int becomes Mind. Cha becomes Soul. Body is Str or Con (which ever is lower); if one of those two is more then 20 then you use the average of the two (maximum of 20). For AD&D and Basic monster you just kinda eyeball Body based on the fluff and how much damage they do.

>As for spells, something about the level dependent range and duration doesn't sit well with me. Even at 5th level, a magic user is only going to get an extra +10 ft. out of Unseen Servant, and Call Lightning goes from 110 ft. range, to 150 ft. range.
>Seems like it doesn't really add anything, and is a vestigial element from 3rd edition/Pathfinder.
I agree. The spell format is one thing that I'm not really done messing with (it's also why there's so many missing spells). On the one hand , level-dependent effects kinda make players feel good, on the other hand they're so minor right now that they're almost non-existent and there's no way I'm buffing them.

>Lastly, why the action economy from 3.pf?
I feel it works pretty well as "how many things can I do in one round" benchmark.

>>50863088
It's Public Domain too. Based Wikipedia.

>>50862189
I liked what you did, you and I have a similar taste I guess, here what I would change (Mostly nitpicks, great work you are doing):

>roll 4d6 drop lowest OR stats goes to +5, instead of +3
>+1 attack bonus at all levels, so at level 1 the attack bonus would +2 for fighters and +1 to rogues
>I would prefer fighting styles getting better instead of gaining new ones (but maybe one extra)
>Deadly X could work on anyone with less hitdice, but let the enemy make a save (Just an idea, not something I would change immediately )
>I would swap cleave and action surge (I know you get it and second level in 5e, but it's a lot stronger in OSR games)
>Cannot talk about rogue talents yet
>I don't like apprentice, you could make a a level 6 which gives domains (thieves guild, mage tower, etc)
>I would drop the "persecuted" from shadow wizards, maybe change the name to arcane and elven tradition to fey
>Divine wizards could have access to armor
>I think you literacy rules are too harsh, but maybe it's what you intended
>I would like cantrips, but this isn't an OSR thing

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Sup /osrg/, I hope you are all having a nice Christmas Eve. I'm just relaxing and thought I'd do another 1d100 table. First reply to this post gets to pick tonight's theme, topic, flavor, whatever.

I slapped all my previous 1d100's into a shitty pdf, I'll fix the formatting next time around but for now I just wanted to make sure it worked.

>>50863315

Bless you anon. These have, and continue to be great.

>>50863303
Thanks, Anon-kun.

>roll 4d6 drop lowest OR stats goes to +5, instead of +3
+5? Do you mean +4?

>+1 attack bonus at all levels, so at level 1 the attack bonus would +2 for fighters and +1 to rogues
I actually have debated making doing that for Fighters or making a universal HD=BAB progression.

>Deadly X could work on anyone with less hitdice, but let the enemy make a save (Just an idea, not something I would change immediately )
I thought about making it HD-based but I wanted Fighters to be able to use it on big enemies too. Plus I'd have to change monster ability checks if I did that otherwise a whole bunch of big guys 4u would never be effected by it.

>Cannot talk about rogue talents yet
>I don't like apprentice, you could make a a level 6 which gives domains (thieves guild, mage tower, etc)
Talents are just spiced up Rogue skills. For example, Phantom's Footsteps would make the Rogue able to walk without making noise no matter what he was carrying and leave no footprints or scent trail. And I'm not fond of Apprentice either, I'm just struggling to find a flavorful ability.

>I would drop the "persecuted" from shadow wizards, maybe change the name to arcane and elven tradition to fey
Shadows are kinda the designated edgelords of the setting. The Elven is also for setting reasons. I'm trying to work in little bits of flavor where I can.

>I think you literacy rules are too harsh, but maybe it's what you intended
Yeah, I thought about labeling them as "optional" but it seemed unnecessary since I tend to stress GM house-ruling in the text. I'm trying for a kinda low fantasy vibe. It's why there are very few races but a lot of horrible animals.

>I would like cantrips, but this isn't an OSR thing
Cantrips are a bit of a puzzle to me. It's hard to find a good place for them to fit in (I'd argue they really don't fit even in their native system).

>>50863315
Very nice.

>>50863589
>+5? Do you mean +4?
Yeah you are wright, I was about thinking 5e max bonus, my bad

>I actually have debated making doing that for Fighters or making a universal HD=BAB progression.
Considering stat bonus goes only to +3 (and most of the time the players will have only a +2), +1 attack is a very small bonus, the results will depend heavily on the die, that's my reason for both bigger stat mods and +1 attack

>Deadly X
I see your point, so yeah, let it the way it is then

>I'm just struggling to find a flavorful ability.
I can't think of something right now, but you could look others OSR games and 5e for inspiration

> I thought about labeling them as "optional" but it seemed unnecessary since I tend to stress GM house-ruling in the text
I like when the writers clarify their intentions, so I would like the labeling, but it could be just me, let's wait other anons' opinions

>cantrips
Doesn't need to be full fleshed out cantrips, just a way for wizards attack (not strong as the fighter, just something like: "Produce flame": 1d6 fire damage) and do fluff things (thaumaturgy cantrip from 5e comes to mind)

>>50863845
>thaumaturgy cantrip from 5e
Wow, that is nice. I might make that a 1st level feature for wizards.

>>50863315
Weird/gonzo fantasy encounters in Santa's Workshop

>>50865071

Trove Update

>>50864528
Seconding this

>>50866125
>>50864528
I'll knock this one out tonight, then! Sorry, kinda had to grab some sleep after a couple hours, but I dig gonzo stuff.

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>instead of advancing in the traditional way, Fighters get to pick either Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution every level and improve it by +1d6
>They can go beyond the normal stat limit and continue gaining modifiers as they go

How would this work?

>>50866309
I don't really like it since the point of stats is they can only carry you this far. Also see 3.pf for continuous stat increase (it's not good).

>>50866309
Context.
In the vast majority of odnd based games? Fuck no.
In that homebrew you're making?
Possibly, we know nothing else about it.

>>50866326
>>50866506

The growing attribute system would work really well though for allowing fighters to soft specialize based on whatever stat they favor. Additionally it also plays into the almost Herculean mythology of the numerous heroes who did amazing hings like diving under the ocean and holding your breath for days straight until you are damn well and ready to come up again.

>>50866569
>Additionally it also plays into the almost Herculean mythology of the numerous heroes

If you want to completely break the scale of the regular OSR game in a few levels, sure. But it's better to built the game supporting this right off the bat, see Godbound.

>>50860860
>What's essential reading for someone who wants to homebrew a psionics system?
The obvious place to start is to read all those novels that inspired it in the first place, but you'll need to google up those yourself.

Beyond that, though, I'd recommend looking around at the preexisting stuff and trying to figure out how each one fucked up (and nick the stuff where they didn't). In order, roughly:
>OD&D's Supplement III: Eldritch Wizardry (feel free to ask questions if the bad editing fucks you up)
>AD&D 1E's PHB Appendix A + DMG combat chapter
>Mentzer's Immortal set (primarily the power combat, although power points in general are relevant - cf. Deities, Demigods & Heroes)
>Allston's Wrath of the Immortals
>2E's The Complete Psionics Handbook
>2E's Player's Option: Skills & Powers
>3.0's Psionics Handbook
>3.5's Expanded Psionics Handbook (probably the best implementation, IMO)
>4E's Player's Handbook 3

Also, for completeness' sake, the 5E Unearthed Arcana article and the PX1 Basic Psionics OSR product.

C'mon, OSRG, gimme an idea for a short(d10-d20) random table.

>>50869062
10 or 20 items of treasure that are valuable but difficult or inconvenient (fragile, heavy, immobile, hard to sell, etc)

>>50860860
>What's essential reading for someone who wants to homebrew a psionics system?
Eldritch Wizardry. There's like a 1% chance to roll a Psionicist because Gygax refused to run the system, and Psionicists constantly roll on the Psionic Wandering Monster table just to make sure any that slip through die immediately.
Also the Psionic Combat Matrices were never playtested, because Gygax refused to run the system.

But everything else about it is super nice. Especially the power writeups. Lots of gems there.

The only other "good" Psionics in D&D was Complete Psionics Handbook for 2e.
It tied everything to NWPs, which was awful, but opposed roll-under checks are basically the greatest thing ever.

>>50869062
1d20 Weird Magical Hybrids

>>50860860
What do you want from psionics? Do you want magic that runs on different mechanics, like 3.PF's power points, or something more different than that?

>>50869370
>There's like a 1% chance to roll a Psionicist because Gygax refused to run the system
A bit more than that - you only need to have 15+ in one of three stats, so it's more like 2.5%. IIRC Gygax nerfed the chance in the PHB, though.

IMHO the best version of psionic combat is the Power Combat from BECMI's Immortal set, which is basically just fancy rock-paper-scissors.

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>>50860860
>>50868596

>>50870346
Just to be clear, those red books aren't folk tales. Definitely on-point though.

>>50870346
>>50869370
>>50868596
Thanks m8s

>>50869969
Well, I like wild talents and I like the science/devotion split. Psionic combat as presented in S&P really gets my neurons firing but I don't like way they shoehorn MTHAC0 & MAC into the powers themselves.

>>50870641
>Psionic combat as presented in S&P really gets my neurons firing but I don't like way they shoehorn MTHAC0 & MAC into the powers themselves.
Take a look at Complete Psionics Handbook, that's what S&P riffed it's Psionics from. Also there's no MTHAC0 or MAC. But there's basically no improving at anything, either.

In your opinion: what are the best and worst things in OD&D that were later changed or removed?

>>50871243
>what is the best thing in OD&D that was later removed?
Roleplay as the standardized resolution mechanic.
>what is the worst thing in OD&D that was later removed?
Disjointed subsystems. Also the complete lack of organization.

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Me:
>Loves the skill less system because thief/rogue skills feels awesome and special with their skills.
>Hate skill less system because skills like intimidate, perception, perform, horsemanship, seamanship, craftmanship ect dosn't have a ability score oriented to them 100%.

How am i supposed to solve it, ant tips ?

>>50859466
Thank you muchly anon.

>>50871578
>How am i supposed to solve it, ant tips ?
Add proficiency/feat system, giving thematic abilities and bonus

>>50871578
Some classes get 1 or 2 skills related to them (only) while rogues get to scale in most of them?

>>50871578
>intimidate, perception, perform, horsemanship, seamanship, craftmanship
These aren't really needed as skills in OSR games, in my experience.

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>>50868596
The OD&D demons were all Psionic powerhouses because Psionic Combat pulled double-duty as a sanity system.

>>50871805
Where is this from?

Does the 2e DMG have anything useful in it that isn't already in the 1e DMG?

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>>50871805
Eldritch Wizardry.

It only has enough Psionic Strength for 15 attacks against non-psionics, IIRC?
But it does 10 per round. Right at the start of the round. Initiative be damned.

They also got three melee attacks per round, plus spells.

>>50871956
The table of contents actually tells you were to find things.

>>50871845
Probably first edition AD&D. Demons didn't have species names back then, and were only considered Type II, Type IV, etc.

Psionics were very, very powerful in old D&D

>>50869104
Valuable shit that's hard to transport!
1. A big painting. Usually, you would just cut the picture out of the frame and roll it up, but this one has an unique feature - experimenting creator decided to turn the frame into a part of the picture as some sort of canvas extension. Would you dare to ruin the artist's intent?
2. A fist-sized gem. Unlike others, it doesn't have a solid color, but instead it's a patchwork of various hues. If it is placed near other gems, it will soon assimilate them, growing in size and gaining around 10% of consumed gem's worth.
3. A few bottles of centuries old arcane wine. They are cracked, but the wine isn't leaking through... yet. If enough pressure is applied(squeezing in a hand should be enough), they'll just split apart, possibly releasing a minor spell.
4. A trio of wardrobe-sized two-sided mirrors. They function as portals - each side is connected to a side of another mirror. However, due to age and poor craftsmanship, the reflective parts rattle loudly in their frames whenever the mirrors are moved.
5. A magical sword(some minor enchantment, nothing serious) that glows brightly. So brightly, in fact, that it's blade will slowly burn through anything it is stored in. Metals would last an hour at best. Living matter is safe from this effect.

>>50872889
6. A well-preserved half-finished batch of notoriously dangerous arcane drug, so illegal that merely a fact of possession guarantees death sentence. Of course, such things cost a fortune to depraved enough people...
7. An ancient organ of unusual design. It's pipes are all bent at impossible angles, and the music it produces wards off the touch of death, as long as you keep playing. It's seems easy enough to take it apart with proper tools and move it piece by piece, but who would be skilled enough to put back together those twisty little pipes, all alike?
8. A long-lost sarcophagus of some famous saint. Nothing noticeably worthy on the outside, and it's locked with intricate puzzle lock that obviously missing some important pieces. Many rich collectors would gladly pay for it, but certain religious organizations would not stand for such desecration. After all, it's THEIR saint...
9. A bejeweled enchanted shield that bears an image of an eagle breaking free from chains. Anyone who has this shield in their possession is now reversely affected by gravity. At least one another person must hold onto them to not let them drift away.
10. A set of two paired synth glass vats. Any dead organic matter dropped in one vat will be recreated in it's living state in the second vat. Process takes a few weeks, and even minimal presence of additional material will result in some sort of a freaky hybrid. However, it requires an immense amount of energy to work, and it is currently connected to the only known suitable source.

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>>50871578
Use this. The chart it refers to has a DC of 17 at level 1, then scales down as you progress (pg. 153 of BFRPG)

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>>50873184

Is there any reason to play BX when LL is around?

>>50873322
Maybe if you want slightly more difficult spell progression?

>>50873322
That one anon will be sure to tell you so.

>>50873520
In detail. Speaking of, is there a similar comparison between 1E and OSRIC?

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>>50851084

This Anon here.

I really appreciate all the feedback I've gotten with my idea and enjoy the criticism even, but now I really want to move to a more constructive stage. What's a good solution to make something like this work? I really want to try and make it interesting and not too powerful.

Couple ideas
>Fighters get bonus combat die above 3 only if they are higher level then monster HD- ie; level 2 fighter vs 1HD goblins get +1 attack die to be split among targets for multiple attacks or to be used all at once for a big attack?
>Fighters get 3 die to start with, use best of two as before, don't get more die as they level instead getting some other bonus like;
>Use weapon specalization or 5e combat styles; gain another attack die but only one and only against a certain enemy or in a specific situation
>Fighters specialize in offense or defense? They choose to either get one attack die OR more health?
>Fighters just get HP growth as they level and no damage or combat die growth?

>>50873725
>Fighters get bonus combat die above 3 only if they are higher level then monster HD- ie; level 2 fighter vs 1HD goblins get +1 attack die to be split among targets for multiple attacks or to be used all at once for a big attack?

Why don't you just use the Fray Dice from Black Streams?

>>50873900

Because I have literally never heard of what you just said.

>>50873918
http://www.rpgnow.com/product/114895/Black-Streams-Solo-Heroes

Here you go. It's from the guy who made Scarlet Heroes.

>>50871956

Not especially. About the only good thing the 2e DMG has is variant rules. That's basically it.

So, what do you do with gold in B/X after you've bought the best equipment you could buy in a regular store? You don't seem to have too many options apart from spending that gold on hirelings or saving for your stronghold.

>>50874183

You build a dungeon, and stock it with traps, monsters, and the remainder of the treasure. After you retire, you charge new PCs money for a map to the dungeon you built, and live out your twilight years in luxury.

>>50874183
Hookers and magical blow, anon.

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>>50874250
Can't I just spend the money on a sick beach house instead? Or does it have to be a dungeon beach house?

>>50874281

Beach house with a dungeon underneath. And a sweet sea cave for pirates or something.

>>50874183
Probably services like resurrection and identifying magical items.

>>50874183
Spending it on whores, or build the greatest dungeon ever and put your gold and treasure in it for fun.

We also had horse racing and players blew tons of gold on horse racing. Also running Gladiators was a fun way to dump gold.

So, coming from someone who has mostly played new-age systems, with a little smattering of old school style (DCC and some 2e ADnD back in the day), it looks like OSR is for either straight dungeon crawling or is a mess of subsystems upon subsystems. I'm hoping I'm wrong and OSR is what I'm looking for, could someone point me in the direction of an OSR game that has more of a focus on telling one of those old Appendix N stories that I remember rather than being a straight dungeon crawl. I'd like the journey too White Plume Mountain to be as memorable as the adventure through the dungeon as a side note I have not read through white plume mountain. Hex crawls sound like fun but a lot of work and, as a father of 2 young children with a full time job and a wife who works the occasional evening I don't have time/other things take my time to make a giant map full of hexes. Is there something that is simple and idiot proof that I'm looking for in OSR?

>>50874740
That relies on your DMing, not the system.

>>50855068
That's really neat!

>>50874780
So I'm fucked? That's what I was afraid of.

>>50874740
Well, for gonzo adventuring a la White Plume Mountain, you could try DCC but be warned that it uses zocchi dice but they have apps for that now. If you want simple and quick to pick up, I would suggest Basic Fantasy RPG though (it's free unless you want a print copy but those are dirt cheap and it has a lot of supplements for it and gets regular updates).

>>50874801
Not at all. But there has to be a bit of work put in to create a memorable campaign.

Ive had an absolute blast running World of the Lost (LotFP) for my players, adding whatever modules I find into the mix. There is no overaching goal or quest. They just travel and get in trouble. It's been amazing. You can reflavor the actual book's material to fit your own setting too.

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>>50873322
B/X is a bit more streamlined and, I think, easier to access (despite being split between two books). I prefer it, though I do like the idea of regularizing the B/X cleric spell progression in particular.

>>50868596
>lists Skills & Powers as a valid source of psionics info, let alone valid source of rules info
>ignores Dark Sun psionics masterwork The Will and the Way, the most comprehensive AD&D work on psionics and their adjudication ever, complete with the most NEW powers in any source ever

>>50869370
>The only other "good" Psionics in D&D was Complete Psionics Handbook for 2e.

You're forgetting Dragon Kings and The Will and the Way. If the psionic powers in the PHB are "common", those in DK are "uncommon" and those in The Will and the Way are "rare". New powers in Dragon Magazine and such are "very rare". Like the Spell Compendium rarity rubric.

>>50875140
PHBR5 not PHB

>>50874250
This actually the plot of one of the Dungeon (?) adventures, although the guy selling maps didn't build the adventure site.

>>50874740
Pointcrawls are less time-consuming than Hexcrawls. And don't fall into the "if there are no rules for it I can't do it" mentality that 3.x proliferated.

>>50874917
Thanks, Anon.

>>50875301
>Pointcrawls
I'm going to have to admit my ignorance here. What is a point crawl?

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>>50875412

>>50875412
Pointcrawls are basically geographical flowcharts.

Town A branches off to Hills A and Forest A, which both connect to Forest B, which branches off to Wizard's Tower.

Check out the Hill Cantons blog for more info.

>>50850658

Rolled 19 (1d50)

>>50875702
shit i forgot which field i was putting this into

Rolled 21 (1d50)

>>50875712
You rolled one of my favorites. Don't know why I like that so much, but the idea sounds really cool.

Let's see what I get.

>>50875790
Damnit.

>>50875806
the butterfly thing is really cool. It's as if you're giving, then taking magic from these butterflys as you cast

lol what a way to prepare your spells for the day with a good ol wank

>>50871243
Bumping the thread with my own question.

>>50876017
>tantric
>good

>>50875806
I hope you have high Dex and Con.

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>>50871243
I really like the "all d6s" hit dice in OD&D. It means that a constitution modifier affects everybody by the same percentage. Otherwise, a +1 means about twice as much to a magic-user as a fighter. But in OD&D, the difference in hit points between the classes comes in fighters having more (rather than larger) hit dice than magic-users, and therefore applying their constitution modifier proportionally more times.

Rolled 40 (1d50)

>>50850658

Just ran BFRPG for the first time, 4 characters in total. They ran into a camp of 7 orcs. The dwarf fighter killed one orc, the rest killed the party except the elf who ran and.

All in all, good game.

>>50871243
The best (assuming only the three original booklets):
- Players literally don't have to know any rules at all to play the game.
- Simplicity through abstraction, uses only d6 and d20.
- No simulationist bloat and character building
- The best "bounded accuracy" system I've seen: AC is always between 9-2 (8 different armor classes) and each number actually tells you what kind of armor a character is wearing. So no dex bonus to armor and very minor stat bonuses in general.
- It greatly puts an emphasis on creating your own campaigns and worlds unlike the later versions of the game with all the modules and whatnot.

The worst:
- Impossible to run without actual studying and research. On the other hand this can also be very satisfying and interesting.

Hey, /osr/. Do you guys use B/X dragon breath "damage equal to dragon HP", or some other rule?

I'm asking because "damage equal to dragon HP" sounds, frankly, insane.

>>50880967
Well, it's save for half damage atleast. Dragons are meant to be deadly. Slaying a dragon is truly a heroic feat and not something that an average adventurer can ever expect to achieve.

>>50881059
I've seen ACKS instead have the dragon roll 1d6 of damage for each HD it has.

Has anyone used DCC's luck as healing alternate rule or the half-level multiclass option written in Crawl?

I'm planning a Rappan Athuk DCC campaign and since my players hate clerics with burning passion and I know they get eventually bored with static classes I'm thinking of using those rules, but I don't know if there is any game-breaking imbalance there that I can't see.

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So how's everyone's B/X Frankenstein going?
I'm starting to feel like I should just restart at OD&D and work from there.

>>50883663
>I'm starting to feel like I should just restart at OD&D and work from there.
I heartily recommend this. I think it's the best way to *get* D&D. Start with the three books and only consider the supplements if the core doesn't satisfy you.

>>50883762
I think I will then. The biggest problem I have with OD&D though is that I have a lot of trouble reading it because of the simplistic layout. I kind of wish there was a more "modern" version and maybe some kind of reference document with all the rules shown in a short and concise way.

>>50880967
I like it vecause it means the breath gets weaker as the fights progresses.

Though it means savy players will always know how much hp the dragon has.

>>50884067
>savy players will always know how much hp the dragon has

Yeah, but you have to get roasted to find out, so it kind of evens out.

File: Philotomy's dd musings.pdf (1B, 486x500px)

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>>50883897
Yeah, the layout is the worst part of OD&D but you'll get over it. The books are really not meant for referencing during play and it shows. Be sure to read Philotomy's Musings and don't be afraid to steal mechanical bits from other versions.

>>50884918
That's an older version. (Has the errata page).

Current version is in my trove I posted yesterday.

>>50874183
>You don't seem to have too many options apart from spending that gold on hirelings or saving for your stronghold.
Eh, you don't really have to save for it. You can start by just building a keep or something.

>>50878037
>But in OD&D, the difference in hit points between the classes comes in fighters having more (rather than larger) hit dice than magic-users, and therefore applying their constitution modifier proportionally more times.
Fuck! I can't believe I'm still realizing new stuff about OD&D. Thanks, Anon!

>>50866309
Sorta like AD&D percentile strength

>>50880967
>Hey, /osr/. Do you guys use B/X dragon breath "damage equal to dragon HP"
I do! I mean, technically I suppose I'm using the identical BECMI rule.

I love it because it's lethal as all shit, and also because having dragon breath work on a different principle than all other damage is a nice way to set the system apart; it's almost like it makes the dragons uncanny. Not just to the PCs, but to the players. Sort of the same principle of applied storytelling as level-draining undead, which generate the pants-shitting terror in the players that you'd expect the PCs to feel.

What if intelligence modifier makes you able to cast the corresponding amount of cantrips (regardless of class)?

>>50887270
But how would you learn cantrips? It seems weird to me if someone can cast spells without studying magic for years.

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>>50887270
>>50887356
Ehh, I usually allow any one who meets the entry level int score for Magic user use small cantrip type spells. I call it folk magic, and very little of it is actually combat useful, although they might help immensely in minor things, like spells to keep bugs away or food fresh for longer. MUs can cast the ones they are familiar with, and more effectively than non magic users. For example, a rogue of high intellect might cast the spell to keep bugs away, and that will keep bugs out his bedroll, nothing more, whereas a Wizard could cast the same spell and make himself the least likely target of an attacking insect swarm.

>run B4 with 1 PC, 1 backup PC, 1 DMPC, and 6 mooks
>1 PC and 1 mook got killed by stirges
>another got impaled by an angry fire beetle
>4 got killed by the Brotherhood of Gorm
>last two alive are the DMPC and a mook promoted to PC
>tired of the Lost City's intrigues, they travel through the blistering desert
>bump into another lost traveler
>zombies ambush and kill DMPC
>mook/PC and lost guy book it out of there
>eventually bump into a small town

Fun as fuck. B4 is a true treasure.

>>50866309
In my homebrew, each time you level, you randomly roll two attributes and pick one of those to increase by a point. I've standardized the modifier progression in a similar fashion to new school AD&D, so that your modifier goes up by 1 point every 2 attribute points. Thus, when folks level, they're effectively getting a +1/2 to a modifier. This, by itself, is pretty significant, and I can't imagine picking an attribute and increasing it by 1d6. Assuming you picked the same stat each time, by name level you could have increased it by 28 points.What kind of bonus do you get for a 40 strength?

What's a good module for introducing kids age 8-16 to RPGs and OSR? Preferably not a dungeon that an oblivious kid can get fucked up in within 20 minutes like Stargazer.

>>50883663
thinking of changing to all d6es, combat & saves move to 2d6

>>50889168
First, use Dagger for the younger kids and a more traditional OSR game like BFRPG, Swords and Wizardry, or Labyrinth Lord for kids 14+. As for a module, you could try something like a modified B1 or maybe B2, just be easy on traps and you could also let the younger kids have more health or something like that. In any case, best of luck, anon.

>>50889328
I'll check these out. Thanks anon!

>>50889168
I'm >>50888571 and my player was a 9-year old. B4 worked great as his first OSR module. He picked up very quickly on the oil + fire combo.

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>>50889251
>combat & saves move to 2d6
Do you plan to otherwise change the numbers and modifiers and such? Because 3d6 has a pretty similar spread to 1d8, but with tapered probabilities at either end, below 1/8 and above 7/8 chances. So the effective range you're working with on 3d6 is closer to a d8 or d10 than a d20. With 2d6, that's even narrower. A +3 will get you from 15% to 30% on a d20 (a difference of 15 percentiles), while a +3 will get you from 17% to 58% on 2d6 (a difference of a whopping 41 percentiles). So a +1 is worth almost 3 times as much on 2d6, at least when you're not working on the fringes (where your chances to succeed are less than 10% or more than 90%).

>>50889168
I agree with >>50889519, it's fine to just let the kid play unless he has a particular personality that's very unsuited to losing PCs. One of Mornard's anecdotes is about how "Gary was the first person to treat me like an adult" when he started playing (he was 13 or 14 at the time) and how he still remembers that with warmth, that Gary just expected him to be able to deal.

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>>50889724
>3d6 has a pretty similar spread to 1d8

>>50889802
Spread, not range, doofus. He's saying that the probs are only marginally different for the central 7 outcomes. Look at his diagram.

>>50890252

Yeah, that's a funky diagram that excludes the upper and lower ends. Why is a 7% chance good enough to get in, but a 5% isn't? Or a 3%
It looks like it was built to be misleading.

>>50890252

Oh wait, I see, it's the central numbers matched to the d8.
But that's silly, you might as well claim a d20 is "pretty similar" to a coin flip, because the middle two results have a similarly flat probability curve after you shave off all the other results.

I just started looking through the issues of Vacant Ritual Assembly for LotFP and holy shit this stuff is brilliant.

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>>50890334
>Yeah, that's a funky diagram that excludes the upper and lower ends.
Did you make it to the second sentence of the post?

>>50890383
>But that's silly, you might as well claim a d20 is "pretty similar" to a coin flip, because the middle two results have a similarly flat probability curve after you shave off all the other results.
With the coin flip / d20 comparison, you're leaving off everything but a single point. That's only 1/19 of the working area on a d20 (assuming we're only looking at rolls where there is some probability of both success and failure, because otherwise why roll?). That chart truncates 9.26% on each end of the 3d6's probabilities that fall outside the d8's spread, meaning it looks at the middle 81.48%. Not only is that a vast majority of the spread (more than four-fifths), it's also where an disproportionately large number of your checks will take place. You will have many more checks where you have a 50% - 55% chance to succeed than ones where you have a 5% - 10% chance to succeed. The latter are outliers for the most part, and probably come up less than half as often, making them less of a concern. So really, we're looking at over 90% of the rolls. And sure, the remaining ~10% is still a part of the equation (so to speak), but the image wasn't meant to imply otherwise. Aside from me assuming that you have enough sense to understand that it's possible to roll underneath a 7 on 3d6, and therefore that the red line continues past the part shown on the graph, I also talked about it in the post.

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What, in your opinion, is the greatest prewritten adventure hexcrawl?

>>50891049
X1 - Isle of Dread

>>50891049
World of the Lost

>>50891049
The original Wilderlands of High Fantasy. Doubly so if I get to count the CSIO as part of it.

>>50888789

Sounds like a guy with the strength of 4 average men, which is pretty much exactly what I imagine a high level fighter having.

I kind of like the idea even if its silly because it proportionally improves the prowess of the Fighter along with giving him more 'stat damage' style HP and more actual HP as he improves constitution.

Anyone got copies of the two new LotFP pdfs? I'd prefer to have a look through before buying the books.

>>50891373
If you get lucky, you could go from a 12 strength with no bonus to an 18 strength and a +3 modifier with just one level gain. That's assuming you use the semi-standard modifier arrangement, of course.

With the same sort of increase to constitution, a fighter could go from having an average of 4.5 hit points at level one to an average of 15 hit points at level 2, more than tripling his durability.

Ran Sailors on the Starless Sea today with my normal group. We had fun but everyone died.

If I ran it again I think I'd,
1) err on the side of giving them more peasants than less, I was stingy with tower peasants.
2) try to telegraph the giant monster options better since they picked the worst option.

Anyone have good tips for running funnels?

>>50891566

That's a good point.

You forget that everyone here uses different rulesets. In my personal one I don't even use hitdice, just a set amount + modifiers, and the only character that gets to advance in health at all past first level is the Fighter. Potentially with Con advancement. Also I would use a 3 step stat system; so 9-11 is no bonus, 12-14 is +1, 15-17 is +2, and 18-20 would be +3 and so on.

File: Random-Wilderness-Events-DnD-5th-Ed.pdf (1B, 486x500px)

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This is super useful for filling hexes, but I don't have the books it mentions
>GMs Miscellany series by Raging Swan Press
and I couldn't find them in the trove
anybody got em in pdf?

>>50891590
Last time I ran that, the Halfling Dyer took his cloth and parasailed down into that abyss below the keep, directly on top of the head cultist performing the ritual. It was fantastic.

>>50891634
>GMs Miscellany series by Raging Swan Press

A lot of them are free on rpgnow.

>>50891685
That's awesome.

>>50891611
Yeah, if you change the numbers around, you can make things work. I think I'd still decrease it to +1d4 rather than +1d6 to keep numbers from getting ridiculously inflated, but maybe that's what you're going for.

Just a reminder though. If a fighter increases his strength 6 times under your system, he'll get a +7 increase to his modifier, on average. If an average guy with a longsword hits 50% of the time for 4.5 damage, inflicting 2.25 damage per round, and you started off an average guy, you'd end up hitting 85% of the time for 11.5 damage, inflicting 9.775 damage per round. That's 4.34 times as much, which is quite a lot. I'd be a bit worried about other classes which used to be viable in combat being rendered obsolete, especially if fighters also have a better to-hit progression and/or multiple attacks.

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I"ve been thinking about an idea for a small adventure I plan to write for LotFP. How would you guys feel about a game centered around an impossible task. The players would still get loot and xp but the central objective would be completely unattainable, save by divine intervention.

Has anyone heard about this? Sounds kinda edgy.

http://www.rpgnow.com/product/197908/Corruption-v2--Players-Handbook

>>50891686
they like 14 dollars bruv

>>50891996
I seem to remember this as thoroughly unremarkable and not THAT edgy. The authors obsession with Scottish history and preserving it is pretty cute/laudable though. You see it in his other games.

How do specialists contribute anything to combat?

Fighters and Clerics of course are good at fighting and have high HP, Wizards have some great control and damage spells; but what can specialists do? Are there things besides sneak attacks?

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>>50892486
Basic hits, really.

The whole point of the Specialist/Thief/Rogue is to have skills that can help in *avoiding* combat.

>>50892486

Is the Cleric really that much better at combat than the specialist in LotFP? I'm not sure I see it.

>>50892508

Yeah but the wimpy Wizard class gets to be useful in combat. Just seems kind of unfair.

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>>50892814
Everyone has a niche. You can't always be good at shit. With your players being clever or lucky, those Specialist skills can be just as useful as some random spell.

Also, I always weigh in the fact (from experience) that a majority of the time it is the Thief/Specialist/Rogue who finds (and keeps) magic items first. All that lock-picking and trap disarming has it's rewards.

>>50891993
Why?

>>50893177
I dunno. I had this idea where the party would be hired to protect a princess during her 16th birthday. However, almost every single NPC in the cast is out to kill her, for reasons that can be investigated during the adventure. It would all happen over the course of a single night and thing would be unfolding in real-time, even if the players aren't present for every event.

The adventure would be designed in such a way that its impossible to save her but all the assassination attempts and all the other events would give the players plenty of experience and loot for their time.

>>50893338
That would probably come off as really frustrating for the players.

I'm allowing fighters in my game to specialize into offense or defense each level. This doesn't lock them into a path or anything, just each level they get a bonus to one or the other at their choosing.

What should the offensive one be? Improved damage or to hit? What about defense?

>>50893338
Nothing should be *impossible*. I mean, slim chance, 5%, whatever. But the option to succeed should always exist.

>>50893338
>>50891993
>expect some epic plot point about the nature of man or the cosmos
>get "lol u cant save the princis nothin personnel" railroad

>>50893468
But enough about DFD!

>>50893567
>DFD
I liked it better when it was called The Lichway and appeared in White Dwarf magazine.

>>50893581
Does the Trove have any ancient White Dwarf material?

>>50893581

t. RPG hipster

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Besides using Race-As-Class, how do you make your races?

I'm debating with myself if I should actually stat up the races or just tell players to make up their race based on their stats and character.

>>50891993
Literally Fuck For Satan. "Wanna save those kids? Good fucking luck, they're already dead!"

>>50894274

Hey I *liked* Fuck for Satan. It's ok when Reggie does it.

Just kidding. Nothing Reggie does it ok.

>>50894286
tfw Reggie

>>50894269
>just tell players to make up their race based on their stats and character
I really like this idea.
It gives players a little bit more room for creativity, which is always nice.

>>50894286
Tbh, I actually liked penis-shaped alien that accidentally created a gay satanic cult due to translation problems. Neat idea wasted on a garbage adventure.

>>50894269
it's not OSR, but I honestly like the 4E approach to races best when doing them separate from class

>>50888571
>fight the Brotherhood of Gorm

What the fuck went wrong there? I've ran B4 twice and everyone always thought that picking a fight with a bunch of armed, armored dudes camping it out in the middle of an already-dangerous dungeon was a bad idea. Botched Reaction roll, or did your players attack?

>>50889328
"Dagger"?

>>50891993
>>50893338

Sounds like the kind of forced, grimderp dogshit that's par for the course in LotFP.

So yeah, it's perfect. Make also sure that whatever happens your PCs die independently of how cautious or resourceful or lucky they might be, or how well they might play, and you're set.

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>>50894842
>dark fantasy
>grimderp dogshit

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>>50866309

Do it for every class instead.
>Fighters can grow their Strength or Constitution
>Rogues can grow their Dexterity or Charisma
>Mages can grow their Intelligence or Wisdom

Then, make all the powers and abilities in the game based on the stats in this way. Anyone with a high enough magic can cast spells, but you'll need a LOT of it to cast strong spells. The reason why thieves get so unnaturally good at disguising themselves and smoothtalking people is due to unnaturally high charisma, not from class skills. Wizards don't cast spells to detect magic or cast a spell to detect nearby danger, they just detect it because their character is so wise and aware they can 'sense' it naturally.

>>50893338
Forcing the conclusion like that is irksome, but if you arrive there by fair play then it might be alright.

But I have to say, if there were one attempt on her life, don't you think the party would be halted, and the players would just take her away to a safe house or something?

Also, if that many people want to kill her, and their reason aren't the same (ie fighting over succession) maybe she deserves it?

>>50891634
I have a lot of raging swans press's stuff, including dungeon dressing and a couple gm's miscellany. I'll send them to mageguru later today.

>>50889724
Absolutely. 2d6 standard deviation is about 2.3 times 1d20.
To Hit target is 7+. Leather/Chain/Plate adds 1/2/3, shield adds +1 which makes it actually decent.
Fighters get +1 to roll every 3 levels, C/T 4, MU 5.
Save is 9+. Everyone gets +1/4 levels. Maybe some one point class adjustments.
Attr adds: either like morale, 13-17=1,18=2, or maybe just 15-18 =+1.
Magic items are +1 or +2.
Bless and PFE are still +1, which makes them more useful.
Thief skills are mostly 10+, add 1/2 levels, Climb is 5+, add 1/4 level

The main idea is that a 5% add is just too small to care about. If it doesn't affect your chances a lot it's not worth keeping track of.

>>50894367
I think Twinkly is a great meta-level joke, and I would absolutely follow the results if it got triggered.

>>50894820
It was a solo game but here's what happened
>the party stole some food from the Mages of Usamigraras
>they went back to steal some more and found the remaining stuff moved
>had a bump-in with the mages, a meeting is arranged
>Sirkinios offers the party food, wine, and water if they will be the Mages' allies
>Sirkinios wants proof that these guys are useful/dedicated so he tells them to bring back 2 Gorm masks
>PC and NPC party stroll up to Brotherhood of Gorm's HQ
>The lone PC, speaking for his party of 6, tells Kanadius that "We came to kill two of your guys or you can give us their masks."
>Kanadius firmly but peacefully refuses
>PC lets slip that were sent by the Mages
>Kanadius is wary of them
>PC tries to set up a trade for masks
>Kanadius firmly but peacefully refuses
>PC tries to tell him sob story about how they're lost/hungry/thirsty/etc.
>Kanadius "Tough luck"
>Kanadius finally tells these outsiders to GTFO and never return to the Brotherhood's turf
>PC: "No, We aren't leaving."

And then a bloodbath ensued.

>>50898078
I'm too tired to do the actual math right now, but that looks reasonable.

>shield adds +1 which makes it actually decent.
Yeah, shields in D&D are laughably weak. Then again, two-handed swords are problematic in that while the +1 to damage they impart is generally significantly better than -1 to being hit, they are rarely found as magical treasure (at least if you roll magic items according to the book). You might want to boost them too so that they aren't completely overshadowed by shields.

>Attr adds: either like morale, 13-17=1,18=2, or maybe just 15-18 =+1.
I dislike 18 being in a category on its own in a 2-step bonus system. It occurs rarely enough that it doesn't seem worth it (and makes things more fluky). Then again, just having +1 seems boring. What if a high attribute gave you a +1 generally, but +2 to one specific area (making it +1/+2)? Just some ideas, but...

16+ strength gives you +2 to melee damage (only with 2-handed weapons?)
16+ dexterity gives you +2 to AC if wearing leather armor or less
16
16+ constitution gives you +2 hit points per hit die (only if you're a fighter?)
etc.

Hell, maybe 16+ just gives you a +2 to all things that don't modify 2d6 checks. So thingslike to-hit, AC, saving throws, skills, reaction rolls and so forth wouldn't be affected, but stuff like damage and hit points would.

Rolled 1 (1d50)

>>50850658
Rolling for the genie, that one made me giggle like a retard.

>>50898737
Aw, that's disappointingly generic.

>>50898737
The genie doesn't seem to provide any justification for resting to regain spells, though, or even limited, Vancian casting.

>>50899919
Genie tricked you into being a vancian wisher.

>>50899919
Maybe the genie is a vancian caster himself?

>>50899919

As you grow in level, you become more skilled in having the genie's daily wishes be able to do more each, therefore granting more wishes.

As you grow in level, your will allows you to gain more wishes from your bound genie, granting more wishes.

The genie only serves wealthier and more famous masters as part of the original contract, so you need to grow in level to get more wishes.

The genie actually grows in power as you keep using its wishes, granting more wishes.

The genie starts to warm up to you, but very slowly, letting you have a few more wishes every time you level.

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What's your favorite type of mechanic or theme of hipster nuOSR?

>Classless system
>Snappy dice rolling mechanics
>Class roster reduction or expansion
>Other?

Newbie here. Anyone got any games coming up that they'd be willing to let a new player join? Game finder thread was lacking, and I'd rather not resort to r/lfg.

>>50895636
That's a great idea anon.

>>50895636
>>50901076

...Or you could just drop the classes entirety and let players grow what they want.

>>50850820
It is for testicles.

>>50901199
>he doesn't want Ultimate Testosterone Power

>>50901297

Isn't that what killed Lyle Alzado?

Quick! I need a modern/future era one page "dungeon" crawl that a first time DM could run.

>>50901354
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/106505/Dungeon-From-A-Distant-Star

>buy Apes Victorious
>basically does nothing innovative with the setting
>psionics are boring

Literally no reason to play this over Terra Primate to be honest.

>>50901740
I have no idea what either of those are, but I assume you want to talk about them, so enlighten me.

>>50901740

According to this post there is not only a monkey themed OSR game but there are multiple competing ones.

What the fuck.

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>>50901740
>>50902692
>>50902872
Apes Victorious uses the Starships & Spacemen 2e rules which are modified from Labyrinth Lord.

Terra Primate isn't OSR. It uses Unisystem Classic (the same system as All Flesh Must Be Eaten). Essentially a lighter version of GURPS with a survival/horror vibe baked into the system. You can play straight Planet of The Apes, medieval fantasy, pulp adventure, and post-apoc games with just that one book. There's also an OSR-inspired fansplat for it called Serpents & Simians that lets you play Stormbringer except the Elves are Apes.

Reroll all your HD each long rest? Maybe with modifiers depending on the quality of your bedding and food and all that?

>>50903214
Would you be kind enough to post the Apes Victorious PDF?

There was a guy hanging out in OSR threads with a homebrew game about thieves. Does anybody have the latest version of that?

>>50904094

>>50856675

>>50903305
If the game has a lot of focus urgency, then I don't see why not.

>>50903741
Sorry, but no.

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>>50904094
If you decide to run it (or even just give it a look-through), make sure you give me feedback. I need it!

>>50903741

It's in that big link of stuff that was posted like last week. Look for a pic of santa claus.

>>50894373
having not read 4E, what is the approach that they did?

>>50905096
Pretty much +2 to one stat and a daily power, IIRC

>>50905329
So elves and dwarves can't see in the dark in 4e, or is that their daily power?

>>50905499
Hes wrong. Its +2 to 2characteristics, an encounter power, skill bonuses, plus other things like darkvision, resist fire, resist poison, etc.

>>50905499
Hes wrong. Its +2 to 2characteristics, an encounter power, skill bonuses, plus other things like darkvision, resist fire, resist poison, etc.

>>50905499
>>50905648
>>50905660
>>50905329
>>50905096
they do, here's how it breaksdown in terms of what benefits races get in 4E(with Dragonborn used as an example);

Ability Scores: most races get two +2 bonuses, and no official 4e race gets any minuses to their scores(Dragonborn get +2 to STR & CHR)

Size: most races in 4E are either Small or Medium(they actually stretched out the max height for Medium to account for Goliaths/Half-Giants and Minotaurs), although one of the last supplements introduced Pixies as a race, who are naturally Tiny

Speed: most races have 5 or 6 squares as their speed from my recollection

Vision: they tweaked vision rules slightly in 4e, most PC races don't get Darkvision anymore, they either have normal vision or low-light vision(Dragonborn have the former)

Languages: pretty standard, every race starts out knowing Common, and many races know at least one other(Dragonborn know Draconic for example)

Other Racial Traits: various skill bonuses and other traits that races get(Dragonborn get bonuses to History and Intimidate skill rolls, get a bonus to attack rolls after taking a certain amount of damage, and have enhanced healing)

Racial Power(s): an extra power one gets for free at level one, not all races get them, and whether they're an At-Will, Encounter, or Daily ability varies between different races(Dragonborn get an Elemental Breath Weapon they can use once per combat encounter, that due to being a minor action can be used with other abilities on the same turn)


I like it because it means Race has a meaningful effect on your character without overshadowing your class choice

I have been playing BFRPG lately and i feel like the WIS ability score is totaly worthless and DEX is over powerd, any other get this feeling?

>>50905737
>most races get two +2 bonuses, and no official 4e race gets any minuses to their scores
Halflings are the size of children and should be weaker than other races as a result. In order to stay simple, Basic D&D doesn't want to deal with ability adjustments, so I accept the lack of a strength penalty for halflings, but to not have one in a system that already has ability adjustments is ridiculous.

>Speed: most races have 5 or 6 squares as their speed from my recollection
I'm fine with having squares be the de facto unit of movement, but you shouldn't call them "squares". I personally like "paces".

Wikipedia:
"The Roman pace (Latin: passus) was... the distance of a full stride from the position of one heel where it raised off of the ground to where it set down again at the end of the step: two steps, one by each foot.... [I]t was standardized as the distance of two steps (gradūs) or five Roman feet (pedes), about 1.48 meters or 4 feet 10 inches."

So just make a pace an even 5' and you don't have to talk about distance using notation that's purely meta.

>Vision: they tweaked vision rules slightly in 4e, most PC races don't get Darkvision anymore, they either have normal vision or low-light vision
I approve of this. I like dwarves using lanterns.

>(Dragonborn have the former)
Dragonborn are gay, and not in a cool, Freddie Mercury sort of way.

>Dragonborn get an Elemental Breath Weapon they can use once per combat encounter
Blech.

>>50906013
Really, if we're gonna use the "small = weak" trope the Halflings really should have a Con penalty too.

>Dragonborn are gay
3eborn are special snowflakes chosen to become scalies.
4eborn are just dragon-y dudes. Nothing wrong with that.

>>50906056
3e - Humanoids who go through a reverse birthing ritual who are then put in eggs and hatch in a new form in praise of Bahamut.
4e - A race born of Io when it was cleaved in two halves (one half became Bahamut, the other Tiamat, the blood became the Dragonborn) who are pretty badass.
5e - A more wishy-washy background of ties to dragons, their breath weapon now tied to the dragon they most resemble (White Dragonborn get frost breath, Gold get fire, etc.) but still cool honorable dragonmen.

I just finished reading all the Lankhmar stuff a few hours ago. It hurts knowing I'll never read any of it for the first time again. It's like Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser just died and all I have are memories.

I feel like crying.

I've been listening to this song (which is a tribute to the Swords series) on repeat:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsBKM5puZDM

Is the DCC Lankhmar Box Set done yet?

Seriously, somebody help me feel better.

>>50905771
What do you feel wisdom lacks?

>tfw later editions ruined 'feats' and you can't even use the term without getting sued

>>50903305
I'm stealing this

>>50906601
It's funny because alternate class features/substitution levels/archetypes actually work a lot better than feats.

>>50906660
Kits!

>>50905737
>>50906056
>>50906125
Is it wrong that I'd like to add dragonborn to my OSR games? Humans with cursed forms is my favorite fantasy cliche and with a little bit of rewriting dragonborn easily fit the bill.

>>50906660

But what if you want a system that scales upwards linearly for every class?

Can't really do class features that way.

>>50906703
>>50906660
What are all these things, anyway? Are they used in any OSR games?

>>50906703
Yep, kits 2.0

>>50906875
Kits are an AD&D 2e thing. They're kinda like 3.x templates but for classes. They range from "wow it's fucking nothing" (Amazon) to "wait this is basically a new class" (Sha'ir)

Alternate class features/substitution levels/archetypes a 3.PF thing where a class trades say Trap Sense for the ability to make an attack and pick pockets in the same turn.

>>50906819
Do it, just make sure they aren't any more powerful than any other race anon. Also, post your results.

>>50906875
>Are they used in any OSR games?
No. They represent the paradigm shift to modern character building RPGs and OSR has absolutely nothing to do with that.

>>50907107
Do those things work well or are they a clusterfuck?

So has anybody reduced it to fighter and magic-user only yet?

>>50907192
Honestly I want to just reduce it to Fighter Only, with the ability to use any magic items available- like in the old Roguelikes

>>50907133
In general? They both work.
Specifically, there are more unbalanced (both senses) kits than alt class features but they aren't perfect either.

>>50907192
Heroes & Other Worlds

>>50907214
>like in the old Roguelikes
Many of the Roguelikes had magic users and thieves and clerics and what not.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgoonTyjKoc&t=6756s

File: SearchersoftheUnknown.pdf (1B, 486x500px)

1B, 486x500px

>>50907214
Searchers of the Unknown does this, everyone's a fighting man but they can use spell scrolls and magic items and such.