How does a non Force Sensitive PC beat a Jedi/Sith? They can't

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>>50832539
>Traditional bullets

>>50832539
slug throwers, put them against non plot relevant jedi (who die in droves to the likes of grevious) make them be actually cunning, disable the pre cognitive shit, generally don't play jedi like they do in the movies, which revolves around THE most powerful users.

>>50832539
A scattergun or a flamethrower, assuming you must do it with a gun rather than just blowing them up. Traditional bullets will get lightsaber'd.

Even then that won't get all of them, Vader can catch blaster shots in mid-air using nothing but the Force, but it's a good bet for anyone that isn't Vader-stronk.

>>50832539

'nades, crashing a ship into them, ship covered in 'nades crashing into them.

guys
what if
okay hear me out now
guys
we take a blaster
are you following me?
guys listen
we take a blaster
and we give it 3 barrels
hey
hey listen
we give it 3 barrels that all shoot at once
okay
and we aim it at the jedi
guys
we aim it at the jedi okay?
and then we fire it
the jedi can only block 2 shots at most, the third one will hit them
it's geometry

>>50832539
depends on system. In the old d6 a flamer or electro net works well but in fantasy flights you can pretty much just shoot them.

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>>50832539
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPeI4mX8Nus

>>50832539
Trickery, mind games, gadgets/gear, planning.

>>50832539
Transport them into 40k.

>>50832539
Like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sISGRCgJDhA

>>50832539
You know how in five vader takes multiple hits from lukes lightsaber? that armor how, with a rapid fire blaster or as stated above, flame thrower, nades. or you could gas the fucker

>>50832539
Normal blaster rigged to empty the entire power cell into a single wide, barely-coherent beam. Drown everything in front of you in dice whether it blocks some or don't. Then you get called out on abusing the crafting rules even thought it was the only point any of could could see in them. What did he think, that we'll each build our own C-Creepio and have them fight in an arena to see which one is the highlander.

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>>50832539
>WITH YOUR BARE HANDS

>>50832539
Concussive weapons.
Scatter shot.
Wide beams.
Simultaneous multi-directional shots.
Gravity-weaponry.
Direct mind-assault weapons.

Traps are your best bet though.
Such as sabotaging all of the escape pods, and crashing whatever ship you're on, into a planet.

>>50832626
He only killed 4 Jedi directly, at least.

>>50832539
Any kind of blaster shotgun or automatic fire would likely overwhelm their blade blocking. Barring that, grenades, flamethrowers, planting explosives before the fight starts, poisonous gasses, etc. would give them a hard time if not royally fuck them over.

>>50832853
This.

I'm also fairly sure HK-47 provides a number of tactics in KotOR.

>>50832853
how many survivors though?

>>50832539
They can, and do, block slug throwers all the time.

The way to beat Force users are:
- Sonic weapons (loud noises, etc.)
- Concussive force
- Nets (less useful if they have a lightsaber)
- Flamethrowers (make sure you're wearing flame-retardant clothing just in case they find a way to turn it back on you)
- Droid sniper (no aggressive intent, making it harder to sense to incoming shot)

>>50832539

They don't.

If you're playing in a non-shit era, there are no Jedi and the only Sith are Vader and Palpatine, who you shouldn't be fighting anyway.

>>50832539
Jedi? By taking advantage of their sentimentality to pull them into a trap.

Sith? By taking advantage of their arrogance to pull them into a trap.

You see where I'm going with this?

>>50833030
Twilek slave market.

>>50832539
Expanded Universe novels have thrown up a few novel methods.

-Flechette launchers which fire tens of darts/shards per shot
-Hard sound projectors which fry eardrums
-Putting a timed bomb in your pistol so when the Jedi/Sith force-grabs it, the weapon explodes in their hand
-Ysalamiri

>>50833063
Also a sack of doorknobs. They slash the sack but then the fucking doorknobs

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>>50832937
>and the only Sith are Vader and Palpatine, who you shouldn't be fighting anyway.

I played in the Rebellion era once and eventually beat one and killed the other. Though I will grant you that my character was Force-sensitive and used a lightsaber pike. She out-dueled Vader and forced him into retreat; never saw him again. Personally I presume him dead.

The Emperor was killed through strictly non-Force means. Namely, I don't care how Force sensitive or powerful with the Dark Side you are, when you're on a planet that has the smashed hulks of thirty or so Star Destroyers transformed into RKVs crashing into it at around one-tenth the speed of light, you die. And so do the other hundred billion or so people on the planet.

...yeah, my character was not a good person. People who manage to get the title of "Mandalore" rarely are.

>>50832704

Listen to this droid.

>>50832539
Out-philosophy them. Not really hard, but may backfire.

>>50832539
Firing lines and/or fully automatics.

DO what HK-47 did. Sonic screamers or other distracting things so they can't use their Force in the precious few seconds they have for you to kill them, poison gas or 1-sec-left grenades they can't throw back at you, mine the place to shit, flambe that motherfucker with flamethrowers, use their families or friends as shields, and stay out of lightsaber range.

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>>50833051

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>>50833093
So how did you deal with his clone bodies?

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>>50833188

Prequel Jedi, EU Jedi, or Original Trilogy Jedi?

>>50833418
It's all the same cheese to me.

>>50833418
for prequels, go all out, gas, bombs, full auto weapons, sonic, everything, because those fuckers are precognicent and if your fighting them as a significant obstacle, they WILL be a jedi master, if only in power, and they can call in backup. If Original trilogy, a jedi knight, ie Luke, be very careful, but don't break the bank on it, as he has no back up.

>>50832812
Mando-wank is probably the thing that bothers me most about Star Wars EU

>>50834007
Honestly, Jango, one of the deadliest bounty hunters in the galaxy, going berserk on a bunch of Jedi who mostly have their backs turned, are fighting someone else or are scrub level doesn't seem that bad to me. Saying that *every* Mandalorian could do this, or that Mandalorians are better fighters than Jedi is dumb, but Jango's supposed to be a crazy dangerous badass in full battle mode against some dudes who are not super impressive by Jedi standards.

>>50834036
This.
People often think that all jedi are like the ones featured in the movies and media as stars, ie knights at the least, masters more often than not.
At a point in time where there are thousands of jedi, taking down a few scrubs is impressive as an outlier, but doesn't reflect on the setting.

Just use fucking anything. A fucking flamer will do just fine, or a shotgun. It's just a guy with a glowing laser dildo and some telekinesis. Fucking send an eversor assasin with a new Linkin Park album at him.

>>50833093
This has to be bait

>>50834221
They've also got precog and the reflexes and speed to use it.

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They can. Bounty Hunters have done it before; ever heard of Order 66?

The problem is that the Lucas Films movies and that The Force Unleashed game portrayed force sensitives as godlike powerful and unbeatable

>>50833093
Literally fan fiction tier.

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>>50834185
Thanks senpai.
I'm firmly of the opinion that Jedi should be formidable, but not invincible.
Old Legends had it that one of the best ways to kill a Jedi... was to just distract him, and have somebody shoot him from behind.
Anakin, Obi-Wan, Mace Windu, Yoda, those guys are fucking legends. Most Jedi could style on most enemies, but they're far from being the beasts that the stories revolve around.
Remember, when Mace leads a strike force against the arena on Geonosis, they lose to an army of battle droids and need the clones to come and rescue them.
>>50834246
>>50834221
To be fair, Eversor assassins are pretty fuckin' top tier. These guys are supposed to go after Jedi equivalents on the regular and succeed, including enemies who can see the future, enemies in armor designed to survive radioactive wastelands, T-rex bug creatures, etc.

>>50834324
We've had plenty of jedi get gunned down by regular blasters and blaster rifles on screen in episode 2 and 3. People are just dumbasses who confuse the plot armor on the protagonists with "all jedi pull this shit all day". You can shoot a jedi dead with a blaster if he's not a skywalker, kenobi, yoda or otherwise important to the plot at this very moment.

>>50832539
https://youtu.be/UPeI4mX8Nus

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>>50832681

>>50832937
Sith is just a fancy title that the biggest faggot darksider in the room uses.

>>50834659
Any force using shucklefuck can be a darksider just like any able-bodied person can go into a rage and lash out at others indiscriminately. Doesn't mean they're any good at it nor does it mean they have the slightest idea of what they're doing. The Sith seem to be a religion and set of practices and teachings that allow them to make use of the darkside as more than just a bezerk lunatic or an idiot unwittingly playing with napalm.

>>50834245
Nope.

>>50833242
Didn't. The campaign ended with the assault on Anaxes the Fortress World and the RKV'ing of it while the Emperor was there. By that point my character was, as mentioned, styling herself as Mandalore the Forge, and leading a renewed Crusade against the Empire. Since The Forge had been a Mandalorian Wars-era Mandalorian who had been frozen in carbonite for ~4,000 years, she had a different sort of outlook on how Mandalorians should act as compared to the modern ones; namely she was actively recruiting new people into the Crusade and making them Mandalorian.

I was basically placing Space Distaff Atilla the Khan.

(The entire character concept began because we were playing d20 Saga, rolling for stats, and I swear on my life my starting scores were something to the effect of 18, 18, 17, 16, 14, 14. Those stats were too good to NOT roll up a Force-using Mandalorian or some other Mary Sue-esque Conan-like character, so I just went all in)

>>50834356
Oh, don't pretend like retarded shit hasn't happened in your campaigns. We all had fun; that's what matters.

>>50834659

Literally and figuratively wrong.

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>>50832539
Jedi and Sith have ZERO defense against wide beam weapons like microwaves or gamma wave 'guns' that simply irradiate a wide area of space. They can't be blocked, they can't be dodged, you just flick a switch and they're FUCKED.

So just get a microwave gun, and roast yourself some Jedi.

Can Obi-Wan beat a Mandalorian in single combat?

Keep in mind I'm talking Karen Traviss Mandalorians, not Clone Wars ones.

>>50832704
Objectively the best character in Star Wars.

>>50833079
But there aren't any doorknobs in Star Wars. All the doors are either force fields or sliding metal panels.

>>50835083
Yes. He came pretty close to beating Jango, and Jango only escaped thanks to fire support from his son.
It's not easy, but a top tear Traviss-Dalorian against one of the greatest Jedi ever is a pretty even fight.

>>50835225

Jango's not a Mando, though.

>>50835232

Mando is a cultural thing now, the race itself was wiped out thousands of years ago by Revan during the war. this is before retcon mind you.

>>50835028
>We all had fun
Anon, no one HAS fun.

>>50835463
But they all HAD fun. Fun is the great lie in the rear view mirror.

>>50835232
According to one face-saving politician. Who turns out to be a bit of a scum bag, to boot.
Jango is a Mando in the same way that Bin Laden was a Muslim. Not all Mandalorians might like or agree with his lifestyle, but he was definitely one of them.
Boba, on the other hand, you could make the argument that he lost all interest in the culture as he aged, but Jango definitely wanted to keep his people going.

Also, we're talking Traviss here. Jango's gotta count.

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>>50835205
One of the first acts of the Jedi council was to replace all manual doors with automatic ones.

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>>50832539
No planet, no Jedi.

It's easy!

>Be bounty hunter
>Hire another bounty hunter to do it
>She hires a robot to do it
>The robot hires space worms to do it
>If things go south, stick around to watch your hireling to get captured then kill her

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>>50835205
Here we see a jedi master approaching a door knob.

>>50835205
>>50835881

The Death Star is basically just a giant doorknob, that Alderan fell into.

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>>50835993
Mother clucking gif didn't load.

Toxic gas, viral agents, poison. Specifically slow acting ones. Flooding a room with carbon monoxide would work well enough, hell putting a tank of carbon monoxide into one of their sealed vehicles and letting it go off would work.

Toss flammable gas grenade
Toss incendiary grenade
Liberally use area denial weaponry, cluster bombs, missiles, mines, ect.
Attack from outside Jedi range either by sniping or using field artillery
Attack or endanger civilians to distract the Jedi
Equip military grade energy shields
Invest in Lightsaber resistant materials

>>50835028
>we were playing d20
That actually explains everything.

My party of normals in the FFG games have had success with Proton-Torpedoes fired from a Y-Wing. I also managed to nick one with the splash damage from a grenade before.

But yeah, in a world with readily available spaceships, its not that hard to just out-gun your enemy.

>>50832539
Flamethrowers, proximity explosives, and electrified nets anon.

>>50832539
Daily remainder that the purge is just that little scene in the Jedi temple in e3 and that vader didn't went around the galaxy hunting Jedi

>>50832681
>He doesn't know about the helicopter lightsaber

Area effect weapons. Explosives, shrapnel clouds, gas, flamethrowers, flechette launchers, more explosives, orbital bombardment and superior numbers.

>>50833063
mmmm salami

>>50832937
>what are inquisitors?

>>50832937
>rebellion era is only thing that isn't shit
cool opinions there bro

>>50833093
Yeah, my character once killed Asura from Asura Wrath, it was easy I outraged him

>>50832704
>Implying jedi can't redirect grenades and rockets towards you with the Force
>Implying jedi can't figure out where Mines are with precognition

>>50834036
If you go by canon he was a nobody mandoboo who just found the armor, also he never killed a Jedi and the first time he fought against one he fleed and the second he died

>>50832675
I like the way you think.
Let's just crash one of those nuclear-bomb-drive ship into them!

I vaguely remember that one of the SW RPG's implied that a good tactic is to detonate weapons of mass destruction in densely populated areas.

While the Jedi is reeling back from the sudden backblast of suffering flooding the Jedi through the Force, you can take action and kill said Jedi.

Of course, that doesn't work on Sith, because Sith don't give a shit about other people.

>>50832661
>traditional bullets will get lightsaber'd
And then you have hot liquid metal flying at your face at supersonic speeds. Personally, I'd have preferred the bullet.

>>50832626
>disable the pre cognitive shit
That's effectively the only thing that makes a traditional Jedi combat plausible; while blaster speed isn't terribly consistent, its typically too fast to really react, especially if you're trying to aim the bolt back.

>>50832681
Depends on the spacing, also
>force dodge

>>50837322
That's false, sith give a shit about other people, not random though, just loved ones or ones they're fixated on, look at Anakin and his obsession on Padme

H I G H G R O U N D
I
G
H

G
R
O
U
N
D

>>50837322
>that doesn't work on Sith
Any sudden Force backlash would have a psychological effect on any Force user powerful enough to feel it. Sith may care less, but its hard enough to ignore a small group of people who were previously quiet and suddenly started screaming, let alone what would be (from a psychic perspective) thousands.

>>50837350
>And then you have hot liquid metal flying at your face at supersonic speeds. Personally, I'd have preferred the bullet.
I think it might reach a gaseous state, but either way, it scatters upon hitting the blade and won't hit your face.

>>50832539

Its the same problem Star Trek has with Phasers visually looking feeble and slow as fuck. The fight scenes operate in the real world and it causes some problems with the lore. See if Blasters were so slow that a guy who was sorta speedy could bat them away with a laser sword then they would be easier to avoid than a dodgeball and nobody would have abandoned ballistic weapons for them.

Jedi are supposed to be super-soldiers than can sense shit coming and bat it down with a flick of the wrist. Its like mini-Spidermen with the kind of speed and reflexes you would need to avoid getting melted by space age weapons. Of course the level of capability it implies is inconsistently applied as a guy that could swat down rapid fire lasers shouldnt be touched mundane shit like Finn swinging a Lightsaber like a bat

>>50837234

>outraging Asura

your DM was shit for allowing this

>>50832539
>They can't block traditional bullets, right?
The blade destroys solid matter, so maybe. You'd need big bullets, moving very fast.

Otherwise, a Jedi can only block so many blaster bolts. With your own deflector shield, you can ignore anything reflected back at you as you lay down fire. Or you need more than one source of fire.
The arena battle scene in Episode 2 also proved that not all Jedi can block all blaster bolts forever. The Jedi has to hit every single bolt, the blaster user only has to hit once.

Really, ONE non-force-user can't defeat a Jedi without a lot of gear, though. That's why you bring a squad of four; covering fire to keep them pinned as the rest of you line up a clean shot.

Or you bring heavy equipment. You can't block heavy blaster or laser cannon fire with a lightsaber. And even if you can? Can you block it being aimed at the ground around you, glassing it? How about missiles?

Admittedly, you then run into the issue of REALLY POWERFUL force users. Even an army of droids cannot defeat a Jedi master. At that point, you need extreme planetary bombardment. Either by a vulnerable fleet, or by one big heavily-armoured battle station that can frag the planet in one shot.

Now, note that Mace Windu was merely thrown out of a window rather than killed. His body was never seen on camera.
Also note that the Death Star was in construction by the end of Episode 3.
The Death Star is the ultimate 'fuck you' to force users by the Emperor.

>>50833051
Theory: Twi-leks are only enslaved so you can use them to trap force users.

>>50835841
This. I imagine the Jedi council strictly regulates weapon development to keep their edge.

>>5083262
>slug throwers
Have you seen 'The Matrix' yet?

>>50837236

>implying you watched the whole video where HK points out the issues with overplanning a jedi assassination

>>50832539
Bought the last part I needed from some vendor on the street,
With a few repairs the rusty robot was complete,
And then he turned around and called me a bag of meat,
He was my newest droid ally.

He said his memories had been wiped down to the core,
Of his former master Revan, he confessed knew no more,
And all the diodes down his left side were feeling a little sore,
But he remembered fifty ways to kill a Jedi...
... fifty ways to kill a Jedi.

"Snipe'em in the back, Jack,
In the Makashi stance, Lance,
Mine the place to hell, Elle,
Bury them in debris.

They seem psychic, Rick,
So don't overplan, Stan,
If you wait too long, Shaun,
They'll sense immediately.

Strike down their allies, Sly,
Shoot the Padawan, Ron,
They'll rush to defend, Ben,
I will guarantee.

Just poison the air, Blair,
Toss a grenade, Nate,
But much preferably, Lee,
Please leave them to me."

The droid learned of the HK-50s hounding at our feet,
He got pissed and swore up and down that they were all dead meat,
He vowed he'd find their factory, and with a bag of Permacrete
Blow the whole thing to the sky.

I told him of a Scottish Sith Lord whom I could not hurt,
It seemed no matter how many Force powers I'd exert,
But the droid said Sith and Jedi were just two sleeves of one shirt,
And there were fifty ways to kill a Jedi...
... fifty ways to kill a Jedi.

"He'll heal himself, Ralph,
Use doubt to stop that, Matt,
Assassinate him, Jim,
Psychologically.

He's the Lord of Pain, Shane,
But break down his will, Bill,
Just talk him to death, Jeff,
The Force will set him free."

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>>50832539
I have a plan

>>50840827
I don't think 4 people is enough unless you are all exceptionally skilled or are fighting a rather crummy Jedi.

>>50832539
Bug out and Nuke em from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

>>50832539
They can stop projectiles with the Force.

You want to mix and match blasters and projectiles. They don't deal with both at once well.

Mines are also useful.

The bottom line is that you either need to be kitted out of your mind, or you need to be cleverer.

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>>50842223
Fuckin' A, man! Fuckin' A...

>>50842380
A force user is limited not by their abilities, but by their imagination, so you have to use that against them.

Use the element of surprise, use the environment around you to catch them off-guard

They might be powerful, but they are still mortal and can be tricked

>>50842450
Wait, force users are basically Green Lanterns?

>>50842450
They are also limited by their ability to keep their concentration as many force-powers rely on constant focus on channeling the Force in order to work

The general reliance of jedi or sith on their force powers makes them vulnerable while they are using them, so giving them multiple different targets for their force powers allows for someone out of a group to take a shot and make it

Those that specialize in saber-combat simply need to be out-flanked, as they are limited in their ability to swing a saber around their body. Keep taking as many shots from as many angles as possible while in cover. After all it is possible to reflect bolts to a certain direction, so keeping cover is important. Think of it like trying to shoot a shielded turret, except the shield is patchy in some places

>>50832539
many people with flechette rifles or explosives
don't plan too much, it backfires when you try to fight mind readers

>>50832539
Train them to conceal their thoughts and motives.
Whether you consider that possible in your games is entirely up to you.
In Kotor 2 Atton was a specially trained killer against jedi/force sensitives. Kreia says he is slippery and difficult to read. Enough influence and he discloses it himself.

>>50832812
>ker-punch
God bless comic books

>>50837236
>implying timed fuses and shrapnel doesn't exist

Jedi are honestly not that hard to kill in the bigger picture and precog only works so far as the options you give them. No matter how space wizard you are you can only move so fas teven with a few seconds of prep time.

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>>50832539
If we were able immobilize tanks with these then by god we are going to immobilize Jedi and Sith with them too!

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Just have this qt break his neck and eat his soul.

>>50843199
It turns out that one of the things space wizards can do is go fast, though.

>>50843199
A few seconds, for someone with supernatural agility, is a BIG window to move in. Granted. they obviously aren't infallible, but HK-47 explicitly stated that unplanned attacks are significantly more likely to succeed than planned ones, just because of how potent precognition is. "Timed fuses and shrapnel" are not enough to kill a competent jedi, especially if those were part of a plan you've been working on.

Emphasis on COMPETENT, the dunces are easy to deal with

>>50843250
Motti tactics are pretty much the go-to tactics for fucking up jedi big time if just nuking from orbit isn't an option.

Cut them off from any/all support, and then fuck them up with an ambush of overwhelming tactical superiority with piss poor weapons and soldiers.

Isn't that pretty much how it should work?

>>50843681
Yeah, but that is expecting that the enemy is going to be sitting behind cover trying to avoid getting shot instead of running at you or starting to levitate rocks and trees at you.

>>50832539
You simply kill them with a better robot.

Force sensitives aint got shit on bolos or berserkers or CATS or grey goo.

>>50835232
If we're talking about Travis tier Mando wanking, then hangout is a Mando. You cannot have one without the other

>>50837159
But even in the nuCanon, that's fucking wrong, because rebels exists

>>50837464
>. Of course the level of capability it implies is inconsistently applied as a guy that could swat down rapid fire lasers shouldnt be touched mundane shit like Finn swinging a Lightsaber like a bat
I really want a goddamn explanation as to what happened, because Ren is clearly fucking Padawan tier in terms of overall training, with a couple of cool, flashy trucks thrown in

>>50832739
Running away?

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>>50834659

>>50845429
>>. Of course the level of capability it implies is inconsistently applied as a guy that could swat down rapid fire lasers shouldnt be touched mundane shit like Finn swinging a Lightsaber like a bat
>I really want a goddamn explanation as to what happened, because Ren is clearly fucking Padawan tier in terms of overall training, with a couple of cool, flashy trucks thrown in

Well, for a start, Ren had been shot in the gut by a weapon that was flinging storm troopers around. That's gotta put a hell of a damper on your ability to fight.

>>50832681
>yfw a jedi Tsubame Gaeshi's it

>>50845429
Ren very clearly doesn't have the inner calm necessary to channel the Force like a jedi on a consistent basis nor does he have any serious darksider training to make full use of his angst and emo-ness.

>>50845545
Plus the fact that he was likely using almost every available ounce of his Force abilities to keep his insides from being on the outside.

>>50832539
Use your brain.

Even if they've got that fairly unexplained precognitive power that iirc can be disabled by a rock or something, a trio (or more) of snipers firing at the exact same time can't all be blocked at once. Better yet, a bomb. Or both, if you're on it to win it.

What about falls, though? The fluff is pretty inconsistent about whether a fall can kill a Jedi. Either they go the way of the Windu or have a superhero landing. What do you think?

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>>50832539
>Luke blocks/reflects one blaster shot in a combat situation in the whole OT
>Darth Vader actually just blocks blaster shots with his hand because he's that much of a BAMF
>Palps doesn't even have/need a lightsaber
>In the prequels every force user carries at -least- one lightsaber and whips it out in every other scene and can deflect over 9000 blaster shots without breaking a sweat
>They are so good at blocking/reflecting blaster shots that standard Republic tactic in the Clone Wars is to have a Jedi acting as a mobile shield for clone troopers

>>50845799
>use your brain

That's a slippery slope. Knowing not to shot a jedi with just a few blasters is one thing, but over planning backfires.

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>>50837357
Sith start out giving a shit about people

But their whole philosophy and the nature of the Dark Side means that those that stay on that path for any length of time end up letting those connections rot pretty fucking fast. Vader may have started SIth'ing for Padme, but he ended up having no problem mutilating and almost killing his son (and thus her son) until the very last minute where he rejected the Sith and came back to the light.

Honestly I'd say most philosophically mature Sith would be just as against loving someone as the Jedi are for different reasons:

A loved one in danger might distract the Jedi from focusing on the greater good. But a loved one in danger might also distract a Sith from doing what needs to be done.

After all if you can't genocide a planet from orbit because your waifu lives on it, that's a weakness your rivals can exploit and no true Sith would leave himself open like that.

Passion and Love are good emotions for an acolyte to have so that he gets acclimated to forcing the Dark Side to serve him. But eventually you have to realize that those possitve emotional connections are just open tickets for a foe to fuck with you and the best thing to do is get rid of them and just let the hate flow through you

>>50845980
Jedi are want to care about the Force and the whole more than any one individual or themselves. Sith, meanwhile, end up caring only about themselves and the Darkside and others(both individuals and the whole) can go fuck themselves.

>>50832739
To be honest, Cad Bane is legit the most bullshit bounty hunter in Star Wars. He goes above and beyond what Jango did too

>>50832539

Fight them underwater.

>>50845980
>After all if you can't genocide a planet from orbit because your waifu lives on it, that's a weakness your rivals can exploit and no true Sith would leave himself open like that.
A proper sith would just nuke the planet with the waifu on it. The resulting emotional agony and hatred would strengthen his connection to the dark side

>>50846253
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aL0cO-x70iQ

>>50846253

They kick ass even underwater.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNehVmGAk6I

>>50832539
everybody keeps suggesting bullets/shotguns... but in the Clone Wars Ahsoka fights a trandoshan with a shotgun and she just uses the force to mess with his aim.

...so I guess MANY shotguns at once?

>>50845545
>>50845567
To clarify, in taking about the knights of Ren doing whatever they did the made like to into hiding, your posts are in line with Whyte I have no problem with Rey "beating" Ren

>>50846322
Luke didn't go into hiding because the knights of Ren would have kicked his ass, he went into exile because he blamed himself for them going dark and killing the rest of his students.

At least that's how I interpreted the whole thing.

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>>50832539
Werf much flammen at them.

>>50845545
>>50845706

And he was trying to take ray alive.

>>50837265
He killed that dude in the arena though.
And has it ever been confirmed that he wasn't a Mando beyond, again, one scummy politician who has a vested interest in claiming that Mandalorians were all peaceful now?
I think it's a perfectly valid death-of-author interpretation of that line to say that the politician is basically pulling a "no True Mandalorian" on Obi-wan, using technicalities to claim that NO MANDALORIANS FIGHT ANYMORE when Obi-wan points out that one of them nearly killed him.
Also, regardless of what he was, he definitely was pretty hardcore. The Clones weren't templated/trained by him for no reason.

>>50834324
>ever heard of Order 66?
A decade long plan requiring millions of sleeper agents and a galactic war because that was the only way it would work and STILL failed to kill all of them?

>>50837378
>Any sudden Force backlash would have a psychological effect on any Force user powerful enough to feel it.
What do you base this on?

>>50842061
>or are fighting a rather crummy Jedi.
Fortunately that's most of them.

>>50847157
Obi wan feeling the death of Alderaan, for a start? Plus the assorted EU shenanigans along those lines.

>>50847198
No, you responded to a post claiming that Sith wouldn't give a shit. On what basis are you countering that claim.

>>50837378
One would think that the sith would be quit accustomed to such backlashes to the point of irrelevance seeing how they have a habit of causing such ripples in the force.

>>50847257
Not caring isn't the same as being unaffected.

>>50832539
Gas

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Would a Penitent Engine hooked up to resist lightsabers blades be a good anti-jedi weapon?

>>50832539
play Jedi Knigh: Dark forces II
and try to kill all the dark jedi with a blaster
then tell me how you did it

>>50832878
Doesnt he kill a bunch in the 2d cartoon?

>>50842759
It say Ker-RUNCH...

>>50847352
Vibro the entire penitent engine and suddenly it's immune to lightsabers. Perfect!

>>50832878
conanically, grevious has a collection of lightsabers, so its safe to assume the ones you see on his person are not the only ones

>>50832539
Betrayal

>>50837368
From a certain point of view

>>50846365
I think Luke left because he was ready to END Kylo, and if did he would truly become Vader's son.

He diminished, went into the West, and remained Galadriel to mix my fandoms.

>>50847500
Not canon even before the great uncanoning of 2014

>>50848041
Really? I thought it only got decanonized when the 3d came out, and was canon when revenge of the sith came out.

>>50843380
They are still made of meat, hard to outrun a shockwave or collapsing building.

Also they really aren't faster than a non-force user (other than being able to jump good) they just seem so because they have a few more seconds to react.

>>50848449
Also can't deflect projectiles, slug throwers work really good even if starwars handwaves conservation of momentum with lightsaber magic because they can't be redirected.
You can also use the "cloud of lead" using shotgun slugs to make sure they simply can't block all threats at once even with knowledge. Or making the best avenue for counter attack suicidal or more likely to kill them would mean they have to pick the best of all options but those options are shit.

This is all pointless conversion though, Jedi die easy as anyone when plot armor goes away. Like when a bunch of nobody clones have to gun them down with the worst possible weapons or skills for the job and still manage to kill all but a handful in a few minutes.

>>50847713
Fuck off, traya. Revan returned to the light, the exile rebuilt the order, and in a thousand years, when the last true Sith Lord falls, no one even remembers what you tried at malachor

>>50848138
Nope. The was a pretty major communication disconnect between lucasfilm and gendry and the movie's content (large ham snidely whiplash type) takes precedence over the cartoon (sheer mechanical terror)

>>50832769
Underrated post

>>50832539
Depends on the Jedi/Sith, depends on the PC.

Most Force-using main characters are obscenely powerful even for psychic demigods. Plebs like Aayla Secura can just be overwhelmed with sheer numbers and surprise if you do it right.

Better to use weapons they can't do much about. Artillery, explosives, etc. Bullets can be coped with, they're still personal-scale weapons. Flamethrowers aren't a bad call, but possibly too close range.

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>>50848948
>possibly too close range.
When the Jedi has only a melee weapon, the 15-20 meters of effective range of a flame thrower is plenty of range.
And that's just the hand-held kind.
They mount that on their ship... well.

>>50849099
>When the Jedi has only a melee weapon,
They're a shit Jedi?

>>50849333
99.9% of the time, yes.

>>50835061
The problem with this theory is that, in the star wars universe, a lazer pistol shoots a glowing projectile. So who's to say that a microwave gun designed by star wars people won't do the same thing?

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>>50849464
>he still thinks that blasters are supposed to be lasers

>>50846860
It's been confirmed in other sources and by members of the story group, yes.

Also remember that Almec still considered the Deathwatch as being Mandalorians despite their exile.

And not a single canon piece barring weird wording on the jetpack article on the Databank and some toy packaging have called either of the Fetts Mandalorians - it's just been "bounty hunters wearing the armor of the Mandalorians"; which just brings Boba Fett back full circle as that's what he was originally, a bounty hunter wearing the armor of the Mandalorian Supercommandos (who are actually canon again).

>>50849099
Jedi have been shown in both canon and Legends as being capable of deflecting flames.

>>50848801
>>50848138
The last five episodes (which are longer) are canon. They also explain how Grievous got hurt and how Palpatine was kidnapped.

>>50848948
>>50849099
Using a flamethrower on a Jedi would backfire horrifically and has, pretty much every time it has been described.

>>50849875
No, the last five episodes aren't canon. The 2D series is only Legends.

This was directly stated with the Legends announcement - the only canon material from before April 2014 is Episodes I-VI and The Clone Wars CGI series and film. Everthing else is Legends.

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>>50849902
This makes me wonder. What's the canonicity of "Legends" material? I see Thrawn and Darth Bane are canon again. Plus the Hammerhead ships. Is the TOR MMO canon? It's still running and I'm fairly certain it got a new expansion either this year or last.

>>50849940
"Legends" things are noncanon unless referenced by a canon source, and even then the canon source can feel free to change them as it desires (RE: Thrawn). They're basically just source material.

>>50849940
Legends is basically irrelevant at this point, but we can pretend it's canon until something new inevitably overrides it.

>>50849940
Pretty much what >>50849959 said. Legends isn't canon except to itself, but canon is free to draw from Legends (and indeed, they said right from the beginning that they would do so) for content and inspiration.

Essentially though? Stories from Legends probably aren't going to be made canon, but certain events might be (or in some cases, already have been - the Hundred Years of Darkness was named directly and seems to be pretty similar to its Legends incarnation though with not so many details, and the Rogue One Visual Guide recanonized the Ghorman Massacre - better known as Tarkin Parkin'). Most tech is almost certainly still considered canon to some degree or another, even if not all the details about it are.

>>50849959
>>50849968
>>50850018
But what about TOR though?

>>50850030
TOR is also Legends.

>>50850047
But it's gotten an xpac since the Legends announcement.

>>50847926
>I think Luke left because he was ready to END Kylo, and if did he would truly become Vader's son.
There's no logic behind this train of thought.

>>50850064
Doesn't matter. It's still Legends. LucasFilm reps said it's its own thing separate from canon at Celebration 2015.

Not all content produced since April 2014 has been canon, and if it originated out of content considered Legends at the time of the announcement, it's still Legends after - even if it gets updates and expansions.

Like FFG's material - 95% of what they've released post-Legends-split has been Legends content with a small spattering of canon material, but all that Legends material is still considered Legends even though it has come out since April 2014.

>>50850080
I'm with the interpretation that he left due to his guilt over the whole thing, but the idea that he wouldn't strike them down himself would tie into his confrontation with Palpatine in Jedi.
He knew he couldn't kill Palpatine unless he gave into his hatred, which would lead him to falling to the dark side. Something we were getting teased with through the whole movie with Luke's black clothes.
In the end, Luke refuses to strike down his father in anger. He refuses to give into his emotions and the flap on his black shirt opens and shows he was white on the inside the whole time.
I'm guessing he's saying it's the same thing with the Knights of Ren and Kylo in particular. Luke couldn't fight and kill them without giving in to his baser emotions and so he chose the path of exile rather than falling to the Dark Side.

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>>50850114
This is stupid.

>>50845563
Blaster shots are just shiny swallows.

>>50850114
>The currently being updated with content MMO is still considered not!canon
>The one that literally released a new expansion earlier THIS month.
>The non canon expansion.

In the business world: That is a dick move disney.

>>50850269
They were always upfront about it not being canon after the announcement and talks at conventions later.

Yeah, kind of a dick move, but when they focused in on what they wanted for the new canon, TOR kinda looks really, really goofy and relies on too much Legends material to really work by itself as a piece of canon.

>>50850318
It mostly relies on the "Old Republic stuff"
At worst it would have made Kotor 1, 2, and itself canon.
That said, Imperial Agent and Bounty Hunter storylines involve plenty of jedi killing. Those probably need to be checked.

>>50850345
And all of those things were determined to contain material that they didn't want as part of canon.

Also, just because one thing in canon mentions something from Legends, it does not automatically make every single piece of work involving that thing canon again. Only the references themselves are canon, not the other works.

>>50850375
Oh trust me, I get it logically from Disney's point of view.
But it's just hilariously a "fuck you" to Bioware.

Also, you'll notice that the only things that were kept as canon from before April 2014 were the things that George had a direct hand in creating throughout the entire process.

Essentially what they did was make George's own ideas for the EU and make them the official rules - George always considered the games, books, and comics as their own thing, a separate universe from his works.

So what did the Story Group do? They made all those games, books, comics and whatnot separate from his universe, and started a new one, doing the exact same thing that George did with EU content in the films - taking stuff from the EU and incorporating it where he felt it fit, disregarding stories whenever he felt like it.

>>50850412
Oh, it definitely is - they even said that they love TOR but it's its own thing separate from canon. And with how odd it can be, that's... being really nice.

>>50850412

Eh, I can't fault them/see it as a fuck you. An MMO is very, VERY hard to take as a canon thing and it started WELL before the new canon was established so it's got a lot of links to legends stuff.

>And then the hero spent 8 hours grinding his arch nemesis for a good drop.

That and they seem to be leaving basically everything outside the timezone of the movies as non-canon in general.

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Remove Midiclorians.

>>50835953
god episode 2 was shit

>>50835953
subcontracting is cancer

>>50832539
Didn't hk-47 give an entire speech on this?

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>>50850766
>>50850463
Guys, remember when you were like 8, or younger, and you saw Star Wars for like the first fucking time, before all the bullshit?
Before the "Special" edition?
Before the new trilogy?
Before all the books, and all the other fan wank cluttered the place up?
Back when it was just You, and the Movie, and you could think of it in a vacuum and no one elses opinions or theories or "Canon" made a damn bit of difference?

>>50850793
between HK-47 and vader, i would place my money on vader

>>50851017

No because I'm not in a nursing home.

>>50851040
to be fair, HK was taking about killing Jedi, not Sith Lords. Half of the shit he mentioned wouldn't apply to Vader, like preying on his sentimentality.

Even though that WAS how he was "defeated" in the end, though I doubt HK would take the same approach Luke did.

>>50851051
First of all, fuck you, I'm 29 and I remember watching the unfucked with edition on TV at christmas. Secondly, I feel bad for you, that time was Magical.

>>50851060
>>50851040
Vader was also a walking tank and a literal force macguffin. You don't plan to take him on like you would some random scrub Jedi. Vaders bionics and armor makes the vast majority of HKs, advice moot, and his incredible danger sense which he's had since a child (remember he was the only human competing in swoop because he was literally using precognition to avoid death as a 10 y/o) basically makes him unbeatable. No he's not flipping around like a ninja anymore but he's still so dangerous only a literal master like younger Yoda or Obiwan could hope to take him on.

>>50851112
I don't think that Obiwan could take him after he became Vader. Dude was awesome, but you even said it yourself, he's a "literal force macguffin." No longer blinded by his arrogant rage, I don't think it would be any question who would win, even if the fight isn't a complete curbstomp.

Yoda, not hindered by his old age, maybe. He may not be macguffin-tier, but he's also hands-down one of the most powerful characters that has ever existed. He accomplishes feats that make other Jedi really look like scrubs.

>>50851180
>>50851112
He's also in constant pain and has four artificial limbs. There are some Force abilities he can just straight up not use (Lightning, for example). His style is based around slow, heavy strikes - compare to III, where he is faster and more athletic than Obi-Wan, who uses a defensive style.

The moment Luke stops holding back in VI he beats Vader to shit easily, and Luke was hardly a veteran of lightsaber combat. An emotionally stable Anakin with the mountains of Sith knowledge he learned as Vader would almost certainly be one of the most powerful characters in either canon, but as it stands he's nowhere near an unstoppable juggernaut.

>>50851221
Luke might not be a veteran of Lightsaber combat but he is extremely powerful in the force. I'm pretty sure that scene is Luke taking a little dip into the dark side and getting a taste of what the power can do. Hence the Emperors pleasure there, not to mention by this point Vader is clearly having doubts about the whole thing, and probably doesn't have is heart into it.

While this is probably headcannon, I kind of felt that at that point Vader kind of wanted to lose. For the sake of Luke he was willing to die, as a duty, to both the Emperor and Luke. He still believes in the power of the dark side, and probably thinks its best if Luke goes down that path, and knows that he could have no better teacher than the Emperor.

Look at the difference in Vader between the fight in V and VI, once they get to the catwalk Vader is PISSED. He's had just about enough of Luke's shit, and is about to give baby a serious spanking. But in VI he is much more measured, and seems almost morose.

>>50847157
Well, a bunch of the plot around Kotor II basically revolves around how turning a planet into a WMD killed a bunch of Jedi with the emotional backlash, so there's certainly precedent.

>>50851307
luke couldnt beat vader in V or VI, vader would not kill his own son

vader was more than beating luke, but he used anger and the dark side, as well as surprise to suddenly overwhelm vader. suddenly using the darkside to overwhelm a superior opponent has basis in anakin vs dooku

>>50832681
What if.. blaster shotgun?

>>50851353
>vader was more than beating luke, but he used anger and the dark side, as well as surprise to suddenly overwhelm vader.
Exactly, Vader was holding back, and the sudden explosive power of the Dark Side caught him off guard. And I'm willing to be that was exactly the plan.
>suddenly using the darkside to overwhelm a superior opponent has basis in anakin vs dooku
And in the general Sith tactic of sudden unexpected betrayal of your Master.

>>50851112
and yet, all you need to defeat Vader is an EMP grenade.
Fighting Palpatine in a straight up duel on the other hand, that shit is cray.

>>50847157
>>50851334
The Thought Bomb is based around this concept. It's just a big orb of all the fear, pride, and hatred a group of Sith channel from their own minds. Detonating it overwhelms the mind of any Force user in the vicinity, eats their soul, turns their body to dust, and permanently pollutes the natural Force aura of the planet.

>>50851353
>>50851307
There's a reason why Luke was maybe the last hope of defeating the sith and Leia the spare. No one else could've rekindled Vader's humanity nor even stood a chance had he wanted them dead. Not his only padawan, not his old master, not even his memories and regret. Maybe not even Leia had Luke failed. Vader stayed his hand 'because' he knew Luke was his son and in the process of trying to turn him to the dark made himself vulnerable to having the tables turned.

Saving Vader was never about beating him in a fight but about showing him what it meant to be jedi.

If you could somehow develop an energy weapon who's bolts would short out a lightsabre rather then be reflected that would fuck them up pretty bad. Doesn't seem like such an asspull either, all you'd need is a working lightsabre to test on and you'd work something out eventually.

>>50833093
>lightsaber pike
Shouldn't that be lightpike? Well really lightglaive given lightsabres are always depicted as primarily slashing weapons.

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>>50832626
>slug throwers

>>50845545
>Ren had been shot in the gut by a weapon that was flinging storm troopers around
If it was flinging storm troopers around how in the hell is he even alive after getting shot with that? God that movie was stupid.

>>50848449
>they really aren't faster than a non-force user
What. Isn't there, like, an entire discipline relying on "Force Speed"?

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Lots of Droidekas

>>50848558
>Jedi die easy as anyone when plot armor goes away. Like when a bunch of nobody clones have to gun them down with the worst possible weapons or skills for the job and still manage to kill all but a handful in a few minutes.
If a whole army just decides to kill all their commanding officers those officers are dead, regardless of whatever mystical powers they have. In those fights it would've been literally 1000s to 1.

>>50832539
"Who would win in a fight, Jedi or Mandalorian" is like asking "who would win, Samurai or Knight?"

The most skilled warrior wins. Jedi have the power of asspull, but a sufficiently crafty, skilled, and focused Mandalorian can come out on top.

I hate even acknowledging the prequels, but Jango bodied more than a few Jedi on screen as I recall.

>>50850118
>He knew he couldn't kill Palpatine unless he gave into his hatred, which would lead him to falling to the dark side
Is that really the reason why he took that approach, is there any source for that? I always figured he took the approach he did because he wanted to redeem his father, he wasn't ready to just give up on him entirely and just kill him like any other enemy. It showed how Luke had not just developed as a jedi in terms of his fighting capabilities but also his view on life, he wasn't all about killing.

>Luke couldn't fight and kill them without giving in to his baser emotions and so he chose the path of exile rather than falling to the Dark Side.
I'm pretty sure a jedi can kill somebody for being an evil bastard without automatically falling to the dark side m8, you're exaggerating. Why else would they all have those cool lightsabres? Maybe they'd want to take those guys in alive because "muh jedi code" but if they're uncooperative and they've got no other choice what else are they gonna do, let them get away so they can terrorize the galaxy? That doesn't seem very jedi-like.

The real reason Luke went into exile is because Abrams is a hack.

>>50851626
An incredibly common force power is energy dissipation and redirection. A jedi or sith that's above average at the skill can deflect blasterbolts like Vader, or even lightsabers. Kylo was already shown to be pretty good at it during his introduction when he froze a blaster bolt.

>>50851754
But he didn't absorb or redirect it, he got hit, hence how he lost the subsequent lightsabre fight to rey (or at least that's what I always hear from people who actually want to defend that cinematic abortion).

>>50851768
He got hit, but didn't get shredded like you'd expect. The only way I can rationalize it apart from shitty writing is that he used the force to ablate most of the bolt. It is a Bowcaster, after all; which fires a metal slug cased in plasma. Even if he did manage to siphon off most of the plasma in a panic reaction, he's still getting hit. The wound he's got is about what you'd expect from a puncture wound.

>>50851386
>EMP grenade
If even modern military-grade electronics are hardened against EMP, there should be no doubt that Vader's equipment would be immune.

>>50842061
>unless you are all exceptionally skilled
Anyone hunting Jedi would have to be.

>>50851503
I think the fact that no one in thousands of years has developed such a weapon is a decent sign that it's impossible.

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>>50832681
>implying

>>50852433
Kreia is beyond a doubt an exception on manipulating force. She was way above a standard force user and was only defeated because it was the Exile that faced her.

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>>50832539
rat them out to vader. he usually does the rest.

>>50851221
The constant pain thing has been retconned out. He's only in pain when the suit is not on and activated. It's got some stuff in the helmet that hooks into his nervous system and blocks the pain sensors - that's shown in the nucanon novel Lords of the Sith.

The whole thing that his style is based on slow heavy strikes is no longer canon, either. That's not been shown in any material in the new canon. The aforementioned Lords of the Sith novel shows he's just as fast and agile as Anakin ever was - and with the artificial limbs, stronger physically as well.

In RotJ, Vader wasn't fighting back. He was putting on a show, one last time trying to decide where his loyalties lie - with the Emperor, or with his son.

>>50832681
Jedi would hold his lightsaber at an angle so as to block two at once, then rotating it to intercept the second. Or dodge one while blocking the other. Or use the force to intercept one or more. Probably while using the force to see it coming slightly in advance.

These are basic survival skills to a Jedi. If multiple simultaneous blaster shots were enough, they wouldn't be the greatest warriors in the galaxy.

>>50852934
Not to mention Rogue One would seem to put the official kibosh on the idea of Vader being slow as well

Dat last 5 minutes, tho

>>50848041
I thought the whole purpose of that cartoon was to get little boys and girls hyped for Revenge of the sith? The show ends right before the start of the movie.

t. Little boy who was hyped back in the day.

>>50852934
I wonder if Disney canon will ever try to explain why both he and Obi-Wan barely moved in their duel in ANH.

>>50853322
It was only vaguely kinda-sorta canon, yeah, and certain episodes (the Mace Windu one where he beats down all the droids barehanded) were pretty much always said to be propaganda.

>>50853342
Probably had a premonition of dying at Vader's hand.

I'd laugh if it was decided to be some sort of call-back to Obi-Wan training Anakin early on, though.

>>50837387
I'm pretty sure being covered in flecks of superheated molten metal isn't exactly painless.

>>50852934

>The whole thing that his style is based on slow heavy strikes is no longer canon, either. That's not been shown in any material in the new canon.

Well, rebels shows that as a bit of a focus. Though it seems less 'Deliberately heavy strikes' and more 'No wasted movements'. No flipping about like a pre-war jedi just careful precision and perfectly timing displays of crippling power.

>>50853439
The recent Obi-Wan and Anakin comic had Obi-Wan stop bullets with his lightsaber. Some completely dissipated, no problems, no gaseous metal. Others he didn't get fully and some melted bits hit him.

>>50832897
> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Jedi_hunter#Equipment_and_tactics

Here you go. Complete with HK-47 quote!

> . Targeting the allies of a Jedi, or even just random bystanders, was a favorite among such Jedi hunters as most Jedi were willing to put themselves in harms way to protect others.

> Sniping and using cover were also useful, as many Force abilities decrease substantially in effectiveness without a direct line of sight to the target.

> In addition, it was possible for a Force-insensitive individual to learn how to "hide their minds" from Jedi by broadcasting strong emotions while thinking about something unrelated.

>>50851017
I remember watching the prequels when I was a kid and thinking they were OK, except for the second one. Fuck that piece of garbage.

>>50853342
Actually this is a really easy one. They're both Masters at lightsaber combat, and Lightsabers themselves are one hit kill weapons, so the first mistake on either of their part is also going to be their last.

Additionally, like >>50853367 said, both Obi-Wan AND Vader are force sensitive, so they were not only reading their opponent for an opening but trying to predict what move would lead to the future that had an opening to exploit. Obi-Wan might have seen there was no way for him to survive, but maybe Vader was looking for a future where Obi-Wan doesn't kill him as he dies.

Or, given how Obi-Wan straight up fucking vanished, it could have been that he was just old and tired and sad and knew that he had done his part for Luke at least. Maybe he was trying to think of one last thing to say or do to redeem Anakin. And Vader waited because Obi-Wan gave him some traumatic memories that made him cautious.

Personally I'm going with "They were both highly skilled so any action was insanely risky".

>>50853280
Money well worth price of admission for that. They really did a bang up job redoing that scene.

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Go to Myrkr, get yourself some pet ysalamiri, crop walk up to a Jedi because he can't sense shit, then but him with a stun stick. BAM.

>>50853821
>get yourself some pet ysalamiri
Reminder: this requires you to wear a nutrient frame backpack, because ysalamiri can't survive without being attached to either their home trees or an imitation thereof. Stealth isn't really an option. They also apparently smell bad.

>>50837368

SPINNING
P
I
N
N
I
N
G

>>50848041
SW7 isn't canon. It's a fanfic.

>>50853548
Considerig Phantom Menace was targeted more for children than the originals it's understandable.
I enjoyed it very much too.
And even as an adult I stay behind the opinion that III is a decent watch.

>>50853952
It's cute that you think that.

>>50853952
When the holders of an IP write a fanfic, that's called "canon", anon.

>>50853952
Wait, we just decide what's canon now?

I motion to remove episodes I-III. All three of them are clearly awful fanfiction.

>>50854247
The holders of the IP =/= The actual writer.

>>50854006
>Hey I'm declaring entire swaths of media not-canon so my girlfriend's self-insert can have her day!
Yeah I bet Grevious' coughing fits are just a "sudden onset of the cold" now.

>>50854923
And let's keep the EU dead forever and ever.

I'm willing to let the SW videogames just die along with it as collateral damage.

>>50832739
Everyone in that fight had like 3 chances to get a kill that they blew.

>>50852934
>The whole thing that his style is based on slow heavy strikes is no longer canon, either.
Nigger that's been canon since ANH. That's how he fights in all three OT movies.

>>50855330
No. The whole "he's slow because he's an old cyborg" thing has always just been fanon. He's quite fast in ESB and RotJ.

The idea that he's a slow, lumbering dude who only wins fights because he simply overpowers people has never been canon except in what is now Legends, and even in Legends they were never consistent with it. Some works had him be slow and lumbering, others had him be faster than the eye could see, faster than other Force users even.

>>50855459
I'm not saying he's physically slow. I'm saying that's how he fights. Rewatch his duels in both PT and OT. He fights completely differently in OT, with each strike having significant force behind it.

>>50855559
Ironically, it Vader fights more like prequels/tcw obi-wan

>>50855559
And he's also just toying with Luke in ESB and RotJ.

With Ben in ANH, they knew as soon as they sensed each other tha one of them wasn't going to be walking away from the fight, so there's no reason for him to be a whirling rampage of destruction.

But nothing at all states that he can't. In ESB he's obviously fast enough to skirt around Luke, and he's not having any troubles when he gets kicked and falls down below the platform of the carbonite freezer.

The idea that he's slow and lumbering and can't fight any other way than power strikes is purely fanon.

>>50855668
>can't
doesn't

>>50855681
That doesn't even make sense in the context of what I wrote.

Nothing says he can't be faster, and in fact they hint at him being faster in ESB.

All canon works released so far by Disney have shown that he is very much capable of the destruction and terror that the OT claims he is.

>>50852399

This. Lightsabers have been a thing for about 5-8 thousand years in setting. To the point where they were common enough at one time that weapons and armor came with cortosis inlays as standard issue (Even if its just a video game explanation as to why you're not instantly fucked as a melee build against a Sith). You'd think someone, in all those years

>>50853838

It also requires you to somehow magically know about a planet and species the Jedi Order did their absolute best to eradicate from all records, hence why it was a smugglers paradise.

>>50854943
No, but they get to decide what is and isn't canon, by dint of being the ones who, y'know, own it.

Besides which, if we're gonna use that logic then The Empire Strikes Back isn't canon, since Lucas neither wrote nor directed it, only came up with the basic story.

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>>50832539
Depends on what kind of jedi/sith we're talking about. Vader? Good fucking luck.

>>50855925
Gonna need a source on this one, sempai.

>>50856071
That's from Marvel's Vader Down comic. A crossover between the Darth Vader comic and the main Star Wars title. I believe that that was the actual Vader Down issue, which was technically Darth Vader Annual #1.

>>50851386
>all you need to defeat Vader is an EMP grenade.
There's a part in one of the recent comics where Vader gets his suit completely shut off and falls to his knees. He gets so fucking mad that he wills himself to stand back up and stab the guy who did it. His suit is probably protected from EMP as well.

>>50856108
Thank you

>>50856118
>gets so fucking mad that he wills himself to stand back up
The Force can do a lot of weird shit and Vader is, as is known, exceptional with the Force.
Canon-or-not discussion disregarded, EU has a case of a man constantly maintaining his entire body from just crumbling apart.

>>50841275
You, sir, are an artist

>>50856286
Good old Darth Sion. Only way to kill him was to basically just kick his ass until he gave up.

>>50851386
>>50856118
At the start of the Sith Inquisitor story you do exactly that to the guy above your master. You EMP his tech and cut him down.

>>50851708
he killed one as he leaped onto the platform, mace windu killed him in 2 seconds flat

>>50849773
F

why is she so cute in this pic

>>50832539
Kill them in a way they didn't expect and can't immediately defend against using the force.
Make their lightsaber explode or something.

>>50858617
wouldnt the metal shell act like a faraday cage?

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Supposedly sniping is very effective against them, granted that you've taken extra measures to ensure that the jedi won't sense your presence before you take the shot and that they are somehow distracted and won't be able to quickly react.

>>50861031
It's not exactly an EMP; it's a specialized space fantasy droid-killing device that seriously weakens cyborgs with modifications as extensive as Skotia's.

>>50853813
It wasn't a redo it was a scene before the scene on Leia's corvette when that happened R2 already had the plans.

>>50861362
and if you ask for a source i'm gonna warp reality and slap you upside the head, so fucking hard you'll remember which movie it's in.

>>50832539
The only things you have to fear about a jedi is their precognition. If you can hide your presence and motives, and cloud their minds enough to interefere with the precog you can easily kill a jedi with any powerful explosive.

>>50852056
Its not though, he's been taken down by emp "things" before. Plus it's one of the reasons he can't use force lightning. It's hinted that Palpatine specifically designed his suit to have shoddy power insulation so that he could fry Vader if he tried to fight him.

>>50861539
He was hardened against military grade EM-pulse weaponry not sith lightning pure force empowered electricity at least he was in Legends, may not be canon now, could double-check on the Wook if needed.

>>50836167
SAGA was proto-4e. Other than some trap options, it was actually really good.

>>50861599
Someone gave other examples in the thread but he has been hit by some sort of EMP devices that disabled his suit. Although he usually still either forced himself to keep moving, or he used the force to manually make his suit run. I don't think canonically he ever got hit by and EMP so no real way to know otherwise.

>>50832539
Rush them with a thermal detonator.

>>50861720
I guess so, so going to The Wook is not necessary?

>>50843925
>>50843681
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-fkESkmvu0

Yoda's clearly the top tier here example, but on the other hand this is really fucking cool and I wanted to share it.

>>50861755
Yeah, though you are right that canonically he's not weak to it.

>>50860690
she's not dead yet

>>50850185
Everything's a swallow if you think about it hard enough.

>>50861759
This makes me think of a good topic. How do you think the clones reacted to order 66? I'm sure it wasn't a sweeping acceptance, but orders are orders. Has this been brought up in any "canon" material?

>>50862017
from what I hear of The Clone Wars, apparently they had some sort of control chip.

>>50840827
That reminds me, I've always wondered. Did Mace officially die due to being too fucked up from losing the arm and force lightning to save himself?

>>50840827
They've done this in legends the blade melts the bullet, danger of scorching i think but not much else, I may be wrong though, also has everyone forgotten telekinesis, they could just stop mass-based kinetic projectiles with that.

>>50862017
In canon, Order 66 was initiated by a biochip implanted in every clone's brain; they get the signal and it flips a switch, overriding their personalities. There's an entire arc in TCW Season 6 (The Lost Missions) about it.

The Kanan comic also kind of goes into it to a limited extent, but basically, once they get the order it activates the chip and turns them into little better than biological droids.

>>50862055
In both Legends and canon, he's dead until otherwise stated - though apparently Sam Jackson has it in his headcanon that he survived, and George supposedly said that he'd have been open to the possibility at some point.

But yes, between getting his arm sliced off and arcing with electricity - to nearly the same level as what Vader got on the second Death Star, with skeleton illumination and everything PLUS getting slammed out the window for hundreds of meters and continuously arcing with lightning for as long as we can see him fall, it's pretty safe to assume he's dead.

Jedi CAN survive long falls and even stop themselves and others with telekinesis (it's show n in an early season episode of TCW) but like everything else with the Force, it requires a certain degree of concentration - which is unlikely that Mace would have that as he's wracking in pain.

>>50832878
Grievous killed quite a few more than that on Geonosis during that ARC Trooper game

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>>50862053
>>50862130
Shit, that might be even worse. If my memory serves me I can remember a bit of hesitation on a few of the fronts we see in Ep.3. Especially for Mundi and Secura.

>>50862264
I said him directly as in personally, troops are by proxy, if there's film, tv or other-wise or a source of him killing more than the four jedi he did directly in lightsaber combat, I'd appreciate it.

>>50832539
>How does a non Force Sensitive PC beat a Jedi/Sith?
flamethrowers, nets, shotguns, wide-arc blasters, grenades, etc...

When in doubt, ask yourself: "what would HK-47 do?"

>>50862336
Other than the PC's he's the most interesting character form those games.

>>50860690
>why is she so cute in this pic

Because happiness is sexy

>>50837378

The Sith'd probably get a boner from the murder

>>50862324
The Comprehensive Guide i had growing up had a page dedicated to Greivous and Magnaguards, the cape description and his lightsabers was noted 'his first few were claimed relatively unnoticed in the Battle of Geonosis, in the deep caverns'

I know it sounds ass up and false, i wish i still had the book (large, black book with Darth Vader's profile looking sad on it, the one with the foreward by Sheev Palpatine's/The Emperor's actor)

>>50862324
Not sure if you're counting the 10-minute Clone Wars finale where he hunts down Taun-ui(sp?) That twi'lek's group in the fallen ship

My EotE character beat a Sith Inquisitor to death with their bare hands

That game really falls apart around 400 exp.

>>50861876
As a person / actor, she's obviously not.
As a character and franchise at large, welll... you've seen Ep.VII, right?

>>50862832
We could always Wook it they're very good at sourcing, oddly one of the best moderated fan wiki's I've seen and that's Ian McDiarmid, for future reference.

>>50862850
I might be but it's been like two years, since I've watched it, and i was mainly going off of Revenges Lightsaber count, although he freely admits some were stolen from still living Jedi, i think, might be wrong.

>>50862937
Enough Ep. VII bashing it's part of the series now like it or not and it apparently outsold Avatar in gross earnings even domestically, so it's certainly popular. also it's somewhat annoying, unless you're referring to Han's death and thinking Leia might subsequently give up, in which case sorry.

>>50862917
To be 100% fair, inquisitors are literally "I trained you wrong as a joke!" tier.

Vader and Big Poppa P leave gaping holes in their training so if they get too big for their britches, they can go push their shit in easy.

>>50862988
The rules for Vader in Edge of the Empire and the other RPGs is very elegant.

If Darth Vader ends his turn within engaged range with anyone, the GM narrates their death.
As for the 'game falls apart around 400 exp.' remark, it's entirely possible to get so much soak that a lightsaber won't hurt you (unless they swing it extra good).

>>50863025
>If Darth Vader ends his turn within engaged range with anyone, the GM narrates their death.
Well, that officially makes any GM who throws Darth Vader into the mix That GM.

>>50863087
Nah man, those systems' whole deal is being very 'cinematic'.

A scene where you run away from Darth Vader works just as well as one where beat up a dozen Stormtroopers.

Besides, if you want to beat up movie characters your choices for statted characters is limited to Vader, who is guaranteed to kill you, Chewie, who is only incredibly likely to kill you, and Lando, who could still probably kill you.

>>50863087
If you somehow end up fighting darth vader you have very clearly made some fucking horrible decisions and deserve it.

>>50863137
>Besides, if you want to beat up movie characters your choices for statted characters is limited to Vader, who is guaranteed to kill you, Chewie, who is only incredibly likely to kill you, and Lando, who could still probably kill you.
They statted Chewie and Lando?

>>50862017
In one of the games where you play as troopers post Clone Wars there's a line one of them makes about Order 66 six that pretty much goes "We didn't like it, but orders were orders." It was later 'retconned' into being brain implants.

>>50865016
It's been a few years since I last saw it, but wasn't there a line in episode 2 where one of the cloning guys says the troopers were made to follow orders without question?