/anrg/ - Android Netrunner General Controlled by the Message edition

I'm betting on corp myself... we're talking worldwide spying network to know what people want, incredible production and delivery lines with techs that range from the most rudimentary to the more advanced...

No way it's just a runner enterprise.

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Trying to articulate why I don't much like CtM...

a) feels like power creep from previous similar options - the two credits bonus from Making News feels relatively tame in comparison, all things considered, and the tag for *any* trash makes Gagarin sedate in comparison. I do think it gives the corp more control for less constraint/investment.

b) ID-based tagging. Not something I like much in principle - might be wrong, but I think overall it's better if the corp has to build or sacrifice its board a bit for tagging - wait for and create windows - though I still find Argus fair because of the choice left to the runner and the trigger-associated cost. Add political assets and new-ish cheap to rez high trash cost assets to the mix and... yeah... you can see how things are going to get ugly.

c) *Unavoidable* tag. Without even going into Zona Sul Shipping territory, I think it constrains options a lot for decks that need that tag off. Funnels the deck-building in certain directions. Which leads me to:

d) It basically feels like the "fuck you, play link or else" card. The heavy handed one-card attempt at the end of a more subtle context change though variety of options, that really didn't need it, as it was starting to bear fruit, or at least I think so.

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>>50826689
>a)
I don't think it's actually power creep. While Making News is more flexible and isn't necessary related to tags, CtM encourage the player to play assets by adding an additional tax. Gagarin certainly pales in comparison by adding that small tax to every card in the remotes. IG is another "asset protection" ID that I like a lot, certainly the Prison Lock got him a lot of bad rep but I loved the concept since it was spoiled during Lunar Cycle.

>b)
I don't find anything wrong with ID-based tagging, as long as there's a trace attached to it. I wish the trace was lower though, but the recent trend is that traces should be higher so they can impact the game even against link runners.

>c)
I hate this part. No tag should really be unavoidable, except maybe from scoring an agenda and forfeiting it like Posted Bounty. Unavoidable stuff is really strong and should be a payment like in Stimhack or a reward like scoring/forfeiting an agenda.
The Zona Sul Shipping scenario isn't so bad really, if you're playing against NBN tags are given and Zona Sul isn't going to last long.

>d)
If you want to nullify an ID you should be the one taking the extra steps to avoid it. It's only natural. At any rate, one can play around it by not trashing anything installed, or trashing only the absolute must. Besides, removing a tag is actually not that big of a tax like it would be in IG, although it adds up if you have to trash a lot of stuff.

>>50827642

From a pure econ standpoint, I find CtM is more threatening than MN - depending on runner that's 3-4 credits (if the corp doesn't boost) or two credits and a tag per trash. MN ois cool for the transaction (or agenda ability in the case of Data Pool) based traces, for ICE? Not making you much more threatening in my experience (though I may be outdated, I'm guessing slotting NM back is long overdue since D&D).

>I don't find anything wrong with ID-based tagging

As I said, may just be me. I don't much like it though unless properly tempered.

(Zona Sul was just a joke really - marks a limit so to speak)

>If you want to nullify an ID you should be the one taking the extra steps to avoid it.

Which isn't the issue, of course you have to. The problem is more what options you have for it.
For sure, you can go tag-me if you don't go link (I have). I'd argue a lot, if not most builds cannot afford that. Thus the link shoe-horning.

Worse thing for me really is how that "unavoidable" clause really funnels the builds with not much margin.

Compare with another powerful ID runner side... the Whizz is *very* powerful, but the runner cannot build his deck so that the corp will be forced to suffer his ability. If the corp is purely operation based he's a blank. Returns on that power vary wildly from one match to another to account for how high it can get.
I'd say CtM would be comparable in power if not for one important distinction: the corp can and will force the runner to deal with the ID ability.

>>50827642
>>50828392
>Besides, removing a tag is actually not that big of a tax.

The way it's set up? I'm finding it's actually pretty big in aggregate.
One way you'd want to side-step this if you don't go link is to trash several cards at once... trouble is, you're already one click short, before mentioning things that are must trash - which the corp *will* have. It's an up-hill battle for the runner with the corp having a native tool for tempo slow down/control.

All that said, I'm not all doom and gloom about the ID as some seem to be, but since the reveal, and having played and seen it played, I haven't much liked the idea of it. Just haven't been able to articulate properly why yet.

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>>50828392
>The problem is more what options you have for it.
If we are talking link then we are including teching against it and not just playing around it. In that way we have a number of choices to shut it down that are not specifically against CtM, but they help a lot in the match. Slums and Employee Strike are probably the most effective. Link is also good if you can leverage it in your build (Cloud, UC) or against an opponent (Fuck Tracer ICE).

Honestly though, I love playing link and cutting through all that tracer ICE like it's swiss cheese.

>>50828415
>you're already one click short
From some cards we can assume that a single extra click is worth around 2 credits for the Runners (I'm thinking specifically Savoir Faire, but there are others). With that in mind I think the trace4 adds up to 2 credits for the extra click, and 2 credits for the tag. Meaning that paying the base trace is practically like gaining an extra click to remove that tag.
Just a thought I wanted to share, not denying anything really.

>>50829276

I do think Slums is an accidental tech, that wasn't intended to be. Still good that it is there... and Employee Strike suffers from current volatility and *very* fierce competition for that slot.

From observation, I think the click is worth more than the money. Crash Space didn't get any way back into the pool - and Networking only ever did because of the flexibility in dealing with HHN methinks.

Chakana/Akshara Sareen deck... because no one else will.

>>50831346
Add in Progenitor for a quick recovery after a purge. Black File too maybe?

Any hope for the last Flashpoint pack and/or 42 to appear around Xmas?

>>50836324

From the FFG status page, Terminal Directive is still at the printer. Quorum has been on the boat since the first of December. Wouldn't put any hope in it reaching shops by two days' time.

Maybe some end of year spoilers if we're lucky.

>>50834909

Add Virus Breeding Ground (make that extra click useful) and Fester.

>>50831346

Maybe the Source might be useful if you want to make it even harder to FA. Jeeves can NA a 3/2 otherwise.

>>50837229

I'm thinking the real big question is what do you want to do with that click? Why do you want it?

Chakana if well set up should be useful enough in mitigating the advantage to the corp. That price being dealt with, need to leverage the extra click into something.

And no, I'm not planning on going DLR if I can avoid it. Too many people have given the card an unjust bad rep.

>>50838493

Multiple notoriety/quest complete/future crim derez card and/or apocalypse turns?

Even 5+ clicks for keyhole spam is brutal.

>>50838615

Multi-Notoriety is nice, but happens so rarely that a simple All-Nighter build would do the trick. On top of that, Quest Completed also adds being rarely useful more than once per turn. Exploit hits a middle ground in that it needs 6+- ICE rezzed to be worthwhile, which while not impossible is fairly situational too (though mightily fun prospect).

Apoc basically kills you rig... don't know how much I'd want it in there.

Keyhole spam could work I guess...

Maybe quite simply in Adam. Would make for a different rig at least.

>>50838753

Hmmm... now what about Encore?

Doesn't matter that the corp has one more click if you play four turns in a row...

>>50838921
>>50838753

Throw in hyperdrivers for EVEN MORE CLICKS.

The ultimate jank with multiple 8+ click turns!

>>50837229
I wonder how hard can we make scoring out be for the corp. Cards that actually intefere with the act of scoring out are

Chakana
The Black File
The Source
Clot
Traffic Jam

Also, I just noticed Chakana isn't unique. Might be devastating in a Hivemind deck.

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>>50841554
Don't forget Populist Rally

>>50841554

Having played it, yeah, the set up is hard on you but multi-Chakana Hivemind is hard to swallow for the corp when it gets going - especially with Fester back up.

>>50843131

I love that one. Preventing a purge at the most inopportune time is always a joy.

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I love that new trend of putting the click sign into the art.

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Finally getting some friends from my hometown into Netrunner while I'm home for the holidays.

I had one of them concede after they milled themselves with Wyldside. The same thing happened the next game with a different player, when he played MaxX and then played wyldside.

>>50845028

Wyldside ON TOP of MaxX? Kudos, balls of steel.

>>50845075

It was around 2 am, and he just said fuck it. I couldn't believe him either.

>>50845075
Add inject with no recursion.

The wheel wills it. Final destination.

>>50845343

Kinda want to play that now, to be honest.

>>50844410

That alt art Mushin No Shin is also pretty great as well.

>>50845709

Still prefer the original, but it does look nice.

Hmmm... Show of Force in Curfew Cybernetics Division... I wonder.

Scratching, lets go full jank: Harvester and Ark Lockdown.

>>50848161

Nah, just play the alt art mushins alongside that Curfew and see the look on the runner's faces.

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>>50850467

>>50850467

Mushin plan hardly needs the curfew back up. With a Junebug, you're already past what the runner can withstand going full draw turn + one run (it's amusing how everyone expects brain damage too, the look of surprise makes it all worth it).

>>50851700

Keep wanting to go back to old Donut...

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>>50844410
Nice

>Earth's best mom mug
Cute

Wonder if when we see Pat (who I think is in the bottom photo there) she has a "Mars's best mom" mug

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So many games starting with a Temujin on Archives is making me want to give NEXT a try - is there a good answer to first-turn Tem, and has anyone had much luck/fun with NEXT?

>>50856694
Shock or protective upgrade in Archives maybe? Crisium on Archives would be pretty funny especially if they do it turn 1.

>>50856694
First turn Temujin is harsh, but it's better to bait it and then protect it, than losing tempo to installing anything and then having to rez it all.

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Who won worlds this year?

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>>50859847
Chris Dyer, first non-US player to win.
Won with Whiz and NBN CTM.

Possibly not a fan of the "you must appear on the card" rule - his hair is a bit unfortunate

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>>50860037
I just googled Chris Dyer and I guess this is not the guy, but his hair is amazing

>>50859847

From the schadenfreude I gathered it wasn't Mr D'Argenio... quick google search gave me the name Chris Dyer as winning, if it helps.

>>50856694

ICE-ing does seem like the most likely play. No easy answer for sure. Tangentially, I'm somewhat surprised by Scarcity of Resource's lack of success (at least around here). I mean, I didn't believe the card would be the greatest thing ever on release, but it did seem interesting. And no one seemed to have cared that much.

>>50859847

A Tem Whizzard + CtM was the winner, followed by DLR MaXx + Sync.

Fun fact: NBN was the only Corp in the T8 this year.

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>>50860686
>Fun fact:
Unfun fact

>>50860235
Wow, yeah, that guy's hair is amazing.
The guy with the moon shirt next to Damon is the netrunner Chris Dyer

>>50860809

Strangely it is only 4 years into the game that NBN actually won Worlds (iirc), despite MWL and Astro nerfs. And with a 12 Inf ID no less.

If only Citadel came out in time...

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>>50860943
Yeah, despite never being bad, NBN had never won Worlds before.

And, from a technical standpoint NBN was actually the LAST corp to win Worlds (there was a "world championships" in 2012, but it seems to have been core-only, and didn't have a winner card)

Looking at it, I also find it kinda odd that Shaper have never won

>>50861248

The first winner's card is Architect. Jen's the CBI raid, and Dan's first one is Deuces Wild.

It is indeed odd for Shaper to not win either, especially when they are pretty well supported relative to Anarchs. That said, Andy could have won her third Worlds if Citadel (and power tap link by extension) came out then with all those tracers everywhere. 24/7 BN aside.

>>50861248
Might be due to Shapers frequently being weak against NBN's usual strategies despite shenanigans, so they get filtered out quickly.

>>50862958
That makes little sense to me. They got the tutors to fetch any program in the early, the recursion to keep clot active, the link to ignore any trace, the draw to keep the cards coming, the fastest setup with Hayley, theirs are the first 40 card runner for consistency, and the R&D tools.

>>50864898
While they certainly have good reactions for most dominant strategies, doesn't it also dilute their overall game plan by a good bit? Either the silver bullets are weighing them down, or the other factions are just that more efficient at closing a win.

>>50826548
>Is Santa corp or runner?
Corp if western interpetation with exploiting elves
Runner if more eastern where he does shit himself and travels on blizzard winds instead of deers

>>50865390

Fisk has his own Corp that, like most financial-based entities, would very likely happily rip off plebs in order to makes lotsa profits. So yeah, dear robot santa would make a great runner.

>>50865896

And now I have that Fisk-Santa image in my head.

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>>50867178
He does party with Jackson, giving draw to corporates and runners alike

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"Let the children come to me!"

Creepy guy.

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>>50826548
Christmas Dinosaurus is the best Dinosaurus

>>50869067
>future ICE version of dinosaurus not the best

It's like you have no hope.

>>50869067

That bow definitely has some standing to it.

Hey /anrg/ help me out please.
I'm totally out of the loop. Used to play Netrunner a lot when it came out, but only bought the base set, first three (I think) expansions from the first cycle and also was gifted the first deluxe expansion - haven't even played that one a lot.
Then some stuff came up in my life and had to put the Netrunner, among some other things, onto a shelf.
I see there's a metric shit ton of resources in the OP, and I will definitely give some of that a good read but I'd like a honest opinion from people who haven't stop playing for years, like I did.

Where do I go from here? What should I buy next? Any expansions or maybe cycles I should skip? How to prioritise the purchases?
One detail probably no one will find helpful at all - I don't have any favourites. Played all Corps and Runners on pretty much equal basis.
Thanks for reading my blog etc

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>>50872069
I'd start buying the Deluxe boxes for completeness. They fixes a bunch of problems with many of the factions.
Then I'd pick the Championship decks, particularly the Corp deck because it's pretty amazing: Architects, Jacksons, Elis, a gorgeous Tollbooth. The Runner deck doesn't include so many staples although some of those full bleed art are just amazing, like the console.
And then I'd start getting datapacks from the Flashpoint cycle, starting with Blood Money. And just picking datapacks from previous cycles as I find myself needing cards.

Btw, Flashpoint cycle starts by picking up from the events that happens in the Android Mainframe boardgame. Titan Transactional (that's Weyland biggest Bank conglomerade) goes dark for 23 seconds, and shit starts hitting the fan during the cycle. Assassinations, Massacres, shit is dark.

>>50872241
Thanks mate.
What are Championship decks? First time I hear about those.
Also -
>Android Mainframe boardgame
Is that any good?

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>>50872496
>What are Championship decks? First time I hear about those.
Here's the announcement, basically it's the set of decks that won Worlds Championship in 2015.
https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2016/1/11/run-like-a-champ/

The decks are not even legal for tournament play anymore. We have a new rule for tournaments called MWL, or NAPD Most Wanted List, that makes certain cards reduce your total influence by 1 each.

>>Android Mainframe boardgame
>Is that any good?
Haven't played it, but I recon it's quite fun. The game is based in the old Bauhaus game, so if you know it you know what's up. Some people also compares it to a game played in notebooks during high school days or something. Never heard of that one.

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2016/2/9/android-mainframe/

>>50872496

It's pretty decent for a relatively light game. Would recommend 3 players.

>>50872637

The runner one at least is still legal iirc, with the WNP being unique being the only major change compared to '15.

That said, while not a legal tourney deck, the corp version is still one of the best things for new players to get early, esp for HB players. And a convenient way to get Jackson Howard without hunting for a semi-useful old pack.

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I just read about how to use Top Hat with Misdirection together. Very interesting. Basically you "misdirect" the top card while TopHat the 4th card. Next run you misdirect the next card, and tophat the 3th. 4 cards in 2 runs.

>>50880289
I meant Equivocation. Misdirection gets rid of tags.

>>50880289
You can look at more cards by running more and Top Hatting a higher number too, up to 8 cards I think. Even if you're using only one of the two being able to see a new card in RnD each time is pretty good. Might consider Top Hat in Crim over Turning Wheel since it doesn't need to be charged, though you're missing out multi-access in HQ instead.

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I do love when some thematic events come into a game through natural play - being Argus taking out Andy's Earthrise and Citadel Sanctuary to slow her the hell down (she never got another sanctuary), shooting her Supplier with a Contract Killer (he only had a power tap, but best to shoot him ASAP), dissuading 2 Siphons with Dedicated Response Teams, using Prisec to bait her and slow her down.

Meanwhile she kept running Security Testing and Temujin Contracts - running against a security corp makes a lot of sense for both of those - and using ex-Weyland tech Hernando Cortez to make ice less rezable - in particular there was an exploit with my own money-making ice, and it could have made rezzing my archer a lot more difficult.

>>50886372

I love definitely those games when a story/narrative naturally grows out of play. One of the best part of the game for me.

Fuck have to make some decks for Saturday, we're going to try and "improvise" some stealth Netrunner event but I'm so fucking smashed I can barely remember card names right now.

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>>50886494
Tipsy netrunner is pretty amusing - you take bold risks, make daring (and dumb) plays, and are generally unpredictable.

Though I have dozed off mid game on J-net a couple of times before...

>>50887408

Tne new, better rage-quitting.

"Bastard stopped playing mid-game!
- Sorry, was asleep."

>>50872637
>>50875210
Ok, I've ordered the Mainframe along with the Infiltration game - anyone played that one?
Those deluxe expansions can't arrive any sooner, fuck waiting for stuff.

>>50872069
>>50872496

In a few months they are releasing a story campaign for Netrunner with tournament legal cards. I'm liking this a new way to release cards, sounds like it will be fun. Here's the link: https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/products/android-netrunner-the-card-game/products/terminal-directive/

>>50889464

You might ant to check this one also?

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2016/11/23/open-for-business/

I like Infiltration in that you always have that choice to time right about going deeper for better loot or calling it a day before it's too late.

I think the game would need a way to... I don't know tie player actions better together.
For a game that's supposed to be a about a common heist, I find it sometimes feels like players are playing alongside instead of together, if I make sense (if not ignore, still beside myself)

>>50890197
>>50889464
Incidentally, Android Infiltration is a rehash of Incan Gold board game just like Mainframe is to Bauhaus. Quite clever for FFG to bring these games together under the same umbrella/Universe.

>>50890287
>rehash of Incan Gold board game
That's news, interesting, I think that game has atleast 3 versions now.

>>50889708
Lack of news for this hurts.

>>50892851

I'm really hoping that we get more news on Terminal Directive soon. Thank god they dropped the price though. That initial price point of $60 was a bit intimidating.

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>>50892851
Well we did get the entire rulebook, complete with the names of the initial cards you get - including Black Level Clearance and Eli 2.0
(there may be other, secret cards)
http://pastebin.com/0eBh6JQm

There was a total scan of the german rulebook (where I got pic related and where the translation comes from) but that seems to have vanished

>>50892851
>>50893642

Well, Quorum is due within 2ish weeks, so at least some spoilers should be appearing 'soon'.

Won't be surprised if more news for 42 only appears then.

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Steve Cambridge, who is clearly Keanu Reeves

Feel really dumb that I didn't save the german pdf though, the pics really help

>>50893776
It's odd that I remember reading the German pdf but don't have it saved anywhere either. At the very least I hope they announce the ID abilities or something soon though, that would help in brainstorming a deck or two.

>>50894626
>I remember reading the German pdf but don't have it saved anywhere either

https://www.sendspace.com/file/hb97n1

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This is fine.

>>50898381

As a professional face-checker I do find the prospect of tutoring subroutines somewhat sobering.

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Hey /tg/, Are you a monster that plays ICE facing yourself, or are you a gentleman that plays ICE facing the Runner?

>>50898552
>>50898381
It's one of those "if you can get it to fire..." subs, though Batty would be fun.

The dream is firing when they're using John Massanori, and if you're doing dream scenarios it might as well be last click

>>50895125
Nice, danke

>>50900180
>>50898552
I wasn't actually thinking in the sub. Just that a 4 to rez code gate with 2 subs, 1 of them ETR and 4 strength is pretty fine in Weyland. And in case of AI breaker, you can power it up to unbreakable for AIs.

Is this a good card game for a newbie to get into? Should I play the board game first?

>>50900446

Its very friendly to new players, all of the card packs (otherwise known as cycles) all have the same cards in each pack. The base game and subsequent expansion boxes around 30-40 apiece.

My friends who play Magic said it was about $300 USD to get started, Netrunner is around $150 and a very nice set of cards that will never cycle out of competitive.

As for the board game... I didn't start with it. A lot of the story and world building is found in the manual and on card text.

>>50900446

I'll be honest, it's really going to depend on your player profile.

If you're an invested player with a competitive bent, the game is going to be in a funky state for roughly a year I'd say. The time to see how rotation is going to affect the community.
I certainly wouldn't advise against getting into the game, but you have to know that next year is going to be pivotal to its future. You're not getting in at the most stable of times. The meta has been in a bind for a while and the competitive side *needs* a kick in the anthill methinks.

This probably also applies, though for different reasons, and to a lesser extent if you're a dedicated non-competitive player. If only because how that segment of players deals with rotation next year is going to define who you can play with, and with which card pool.

If you're an occasional competitive player - ie you have a competitive edge but can't afford to keep up with tournaments and the local scene and just want game once in a while with friends - I'm thinking the game is in a pretty cool state actually. You don't have to go for the ultra-specialized, tailored decks and can just go with bits and pieces, and I think it helps making the game play a lot better.

If you're a non competitive casual, well, the worse is going to keep up with the pace of the game while also ingesting the huge quantity of existing material. I'm thinking you're going to have a good time though. Carefree mode helps a lot.

>>50899336

Made me check, force of habit has me play ICE facing the Runner.

>>50900180

We've been talking about getting back the fear of facechecking into the runner for while, and in that respect, I really like this.

Tutoring cards from a subroutine to the runner it ranges from fairly inconvenient to terrifying , yet is more than probably *not* game ending.

There's a lot of potential for cool board states here.

>>50898552
>>50901811
Still requires that 3 advancement though, which isn't an insignificant investment without any efficient advancement tools.

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>>50902880

Definitely, but then we have an upcoming one that do not need investment - though less high impact with "only" one card tutored.

>>50903032
Too bad that one is Yoggable, though a 1-of will probably be decent over Archives since they'd be tempted to just let it fire to get their Temujin credits or something. Decent Sub Boost target too.

Pretty interesting that Weyland now has 3 code gates that the Runner has to be aware of when they see 3 advancements on a piece of ice though.

>>50903327
>Yoggable

On the one hand, definitely warranted, on the other I tend to find that concern way overstated.

>>50904047
In my particular meta, most of the players are relatively new or don't have that large a collection, so the core set comprises 60%-80% of the players' card pool. As such Yog comes up pretty often. Watchtower is definitely a good facecheck, but I wouldn't put more than 1 down due to the rez-vs-break cost.

Steven Cambridge

45/1?

The first time each turn on a successful HQ run, may select 2 cards from heap if able. Corp picks one to remove from game, other card goes to grip.

>>50907950
Oh wow, this one is real. Felt a lot like a custom ID.

Can't say I'm excited for it since you lose the other card, AND the corp chooses, which means unless you choose two copies of the same card what you get isn't guaranteed. A 3-of deck will make it interesting though, and you can definitely build decks that don't require recursion every turn, just the times that it is needed.

>>50907950
>>50909266

https://mobile.twitter.com/ScottAwesome1/status/813971609937580032

Someone can post the image, but yeah it's legit barring some last second changes.

Looking pretty decent all things considered.

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>>50909376

>>50909266

If one is going all in on events and can't afford the inf for Levy, then his built-in recursion is quite decent assuming you can hit HQ easily. SoT can only do so much anyway.

Hopefully his influence is the standard 15 at least and not lower.

>>50909480

I really like that. And it's a supplemental effect, not a replacement one. Siphon spam the corp, get one siphon back from the heap. Feint for recursion...

Doesn't particularly make me want to build, but definitely looks like it would be fun to play. Which I guess is perfectly fitting the context of release.

>>50909266
>Can't say I'm excited for it since you lose the other card, AND the corp chooses

Weirdly, it's part of why I like it. It's (potentially) powerful, but doesn't look particularly abuse-able at first sight because of the attached conditions.

And it's interactive. I always like myself some interactive ability.

>>50909822
Yeah, I like the design myself, forcing the corp to choose between letting the player get Inside Job or Temujin is pretty neat. Helps that Crim has a decent amount if high impact cards to play (or do they?). Just that I probably won't be picking the ID over a different one myself, probably not even for the TD campaign.

>>50910000

Runner side, the cards more than the ID are likely to decide which faction I play for the campaign. IF I end up playing runner (still sad you have to pick one side).

Really digging that ID though. I'm a sucker for cool interactions that create interesting board states and choices. And the campaign offers a perfect ground for it.

>>50910083
About that, since we now know his ability, let's reflex on his recomended decklist.

Steve Cambridge

Event (12)
2x Account Siphon
3x Easy Mark
3x Forged Activation Orders
1x Special Order
3x Sure Gamble
--unknown
1x Brute Force Hack
3x Process Automation
2x Spear Phishing

Hardware (1)
1x Akamatsu Mem Chip ●

Resource (5)
3x Armitage Codebusting
2x Bank Job
--unknown
2x Biometric Spoofing
2x Quack
2x Dean Lister
2x Laguna Velasco District

Icebreaker (6)
2x Aurora
2x Femme Fatale
2x Gordian Blade ●●●●● ●

Program (1)
1x Sneakdoor Beta
--unknown
2x Polyhistor
2x Mammon

7 influence spent (max null-0=0, available -6)
25 cards (min 30)
Cards up to Core Set

Deck built on https://netrunnerdb.com.

>>50910357

That's... a lot of unknown cards.

3 pairs of breakers with only one Special Order feels a bit weird given the usual hyper optimize crim builds, but makes a modicum of sense here.

Hell, if *not* going for a TD build, I'd be inclined to go with thee copies and Hostage/Paige Piper.

>>50910405
Keep in mind that Polyhistor and Mammon COULD BE icebreakers, for all we know.

>>50910439

May just be me, but given the naming conventions in game, I have a feeling Mammon is going to be an AI.

>>50910469
I can see that.
"Mammon has +1 strength for every 5 credits in your credit pool"

>>50910514

Don't give them ideas.

>>50910357

It is kinda strange that there isn't any Inside Job, considering he is doing a literal inside job in his fluff, in the list despite being an important core card from the beginning (nor Corroders), but its probably more due to a clueless staff writer then anything else.

>>50910600

No Grifter either. Given his title, that's a loss.

>>50910645

Not a Core/Directive card, and he's honestly probably better off without them anyway (binder fodder level). What with being a master and all.

Also, wonder what would be his console? Having to rely on external MU sources is going to suck.

>>50910923
>Not a Core/Directive card

I know. You're still no fun. Pffffff.

>Also, wonder what would be his console?

I can't imagine people forcing the MWL on a core/TD deck list. So for now it's an easy answer.

>>50910983

Hard to say, but some players looking for a bit of a challenge are likely to be going for a 'pure' Core/Directive deck limit, so even if Desp/SanSan don't have MWL nerf, they are still one-offs (from the single core set) so relying on either is not a good thing.

>>50910923
Grifter is actually good in a heavy asset meta. Along with SecTest you are getting up to 5/6 credits for that SecTesting run.

>>50911249

It probably is, but gaining craploads of creds vs non-glacier corps is relatively easy enough as it is without grifter, so what cards do you sacrifice to take them in?

>>50910357
Out of the core set cards, no real big targets for the recursion ability except Siphon, Sure Gamble, Armitage, and Bank Job, maybe FAO. Interesting that Process Automation is a 3-of and no Inside Jobs as mentioned, and that Polyhistor and Mammon are 2-ofs, since Criminals don't usually rely on (or have the space for) utility programs. Maybe one of them is a Daemon? Also as mentioned before he has 43 cards, which might point to a 40 card ID?

>Aurora

>>50910439
If the above decklist is correct and both are under Programs, then that might be unlikely.

>>50911158
>'pure' Core/Directive deck limit
This makes me wonder what agendas we'll get, or if we're stuck with 3-of PriReq.

>>50911350
It depends how many clicks are you trying to save in a single turn. Temujin certainly outclassed all the others remote pressure cards like bank job and sectest, but before Temujin I considered Grifter a good include in case my meta shifted towards asset heavy (it didn't, my meta is stuck in operation economy and HB/assembly line bullshit)

>>50911479
>Also as mentioned before he has 43 cards, which might point to a 40 card ID?
I rather think it's a mistake from the production team. It' wouldn't be the first time it happened.

>If the above decklist is correct and both are under Programs, then that might be unlikely.
I put them under programs because I copied this list from my nrdb decklist collection, the official decklist doesn't include an icebreaker segment.

>This makes me wonder what agendas we'll get, or if we're stuck with 3-of PriReq.

HB deck starts with
3x Accelerated Betatest*
3x Successful Field Test
1x Optional Upgrade

Weyland deck starts with
3x Hardened Servers
2x Bribe Money

To this agendas you'll have to include the Terminal campaign agendas.

>>50911698
Oh yeah, I forgot the suggested decklist had the agendas too. HB's seems to be all 2 pointers (assuming campaign agendas to be 2 pointers), while Hardened Servers seems like 3 pointers. Ballsy, but I do hope it offers a strong enough benefit over PriReq (which I suppose isn't that hard). Bribe Money is probably a 2-pointer since the decklist had 41 cards if I'm not mistaken.

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>>50910357
Ah, my mistake guys, Polyhistor is actually hardware, not program. Sorry about that. And Mammon seems to be included in both Runner decks. I'm really getting the neutral AI vibe now. Our third.

>>50911866
FOURTH. Fucking Baba Yaga. This is not my day guys, I'll go nap for a while.

>>50911866
Love this one, it's basically Jinteki-level Sentry to facecheck, and you'd almost never want it to fire either. I hope we get an advanceable sentry in TD or Red Sands, though with Sapper and this I won't really complain about not getting any.

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Why is there a piece of ice called "hose"?

>>50911479
>Out of the core set cards, no real big targets for the recursion ability

I'm thinking programs are valid targets. Hunter Seeker is in TD. Program trashing in a core context hurts quite bit more.

>Also as mentioned before he has 43 cards, which might point to a 40 card ID?

Room for the story-related cards (the ones with a yellow expansion sign instead of white). We've seen a 3/2 agenda that needs to be in your score zone when you need to get the next chapter/level/package. And we've seen a neutral resource that plays a similar role for runners.

>>50911249

Big problem with Grifter is it's at the same time slow, constraining AND fragile. You don't start to turn a profit before the 4th trigger, you have to run every turn once it hits the table, and you must have a successful run for it to stay. I've played the card (with The Supplier), will play it again, but it's not an easy card to love.

>>50914660

I *think* it's "garden".

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>>50914660
I think it's not "hose" (Turkish), it's "garden" (Latin)
The picture looks like a garden, at least.

It's possibly even Mausolus related - they work in a similar way, and "garden" might be as in "Hanging Gardens of Babylon"

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Would you pay 4 net damage?

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>>50918218

No.

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>>50918218

Maybe.

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>>50918218

Definitely.

>>50918218

>film critic

So technically nope.

>>50916551

It's pretty unlikely for the corp to give back programs unless both copies somehow get trashed in the first place, in which case you are pretty much screwed if that program/breaker was needed to get into HQ to begin with.

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>>50918653
>film critic
Man fuck that card.

On a game level it's an irritatingly cheap counter to a lot of cool things, but on a lore level it's one of the worst (and most blatant, with how good it is) themed cards in the game

>>50918218
Not 4

>>50918653

As I was saying: three copies of programs Paige Piper/hostage.

>>50918653
>>50918743

Yeah, that card is really... meh. Can invalidate so much for so little in return.

>>50918743
I prefer it in the game because I'm fucking tired of everyone picking self-protecting agendas over agendas that do something. Fuck NAPD, fuck Future Perfect, fuck Fetal AI. Also fuck GFI, which is a self-protecting agenda that directly steals points from the Runner at deckbuilding.

>>50919117

I just wish it wasn't so blatant in its effect.

>>50919269

Blatant in what sense?

>>50919480

It's designed as a way to counter those on-access/steal trigger agenda effects and it does it by literally suppressing the access/steal phase. You can' t be anymore silver bullet than this.

Just look at The Archivist for a design space that I think is actually more interesting for reaching a similar result.

>>50919117

GFI seems fine, honestly. Generally speaking the Corp has to put more time into scoring an Agenda than the Runner does into stealing it, and that's a nice reflection of that dichotomy. It's worth more to the Corp because they had to invest both the time into protecting it and into actually scoring it out as a 5 req Agenda (barring bullshit like EoI, but I find the blame for that falls more on EoI than GFI). Beyond that it's still free points whenever the Runner manages to snag it; which is in a different category than those others where the Corp can in some cases rather brazenly just stick it out there and start advancing. The nature of most cases of stealing an Agenda requiring you to cede tempo combined with the fact that there are already an abundance of ways to punish Runners for, well, running, are what make the others problematic and the reason I personally feel Film Critic fills a necessary niche in the game.

>>50919557

I dunno. I get that that's its primary function/what the card was designed for, but it has some interesting synergies. After browsing some lists I finally gave Iain "buckets of doucats" Stirling a try and that deck uses FC to devastating effect. You don't even care if the Corp has any of those on-access Agendas, it's still a core part of the strategy.

>>50919557
>Whenever the Corp scores an initiative or security agenda, force the Corp to "Trace1– if unsuccessful, take 1 bad publicity."
I don't see a similar result here. If anything, this is the complete opposite.

Lorewise, I think film critic was aimed to prevent the sensies trigger. It did ok there. It just doesn't make much sense anywhere else.

>>50919658
I disagree. If you want to add points to the Corp because it costs more to him than the Runner, you can do a Market Research and gives them when the Corp score them. But agendas are usually balanced around the point that agendas are Boons for the Corp, while the Runner get Blanks.
You can actually build a deck with 3 GFI, 1 GT, 1 5/3 in BoN and the Runner will have to steal either GT or the 5/3 if he really wants to win. 2/44 cards is a extreme case of what I'm talking about. But GFI really makes it much harder to find the remaining points, making the games longer because of it, and often even going to time.
How long did Damon said that he wouldn't add a card to the MWL after its release before considering it? I'm pretty sure that, with every deck playing 3 GFI right now, leaving no room for other development, he will be adding them to the list next time.

>>50919750
Yeah, Iain really needed something that kept his ability active while still being proactive and running. Having NA City hall and The Source as synergies is really a great bonus though.

>>50919998

But here's the thing: Market Research requires the Runner to be *tagged*. That means unless the Runner is going Tag Me you have to invest in actually tagging the Runner in addition to scoring out the agenda, and trust me, most Runners will not let you keep tags on them.

In your theoretical "4 Agendas in the whole deck" scenario, the Corp *also* has to score 2-3 of those Agendas to win. Remember that these are all 5/3s and one 9/6 for the Corp. It's not like they can "sneak them out". They either need to have Junebugs/Overwriters out the ass and be *extremely* good at bluffing or else the Runner can just build up a pile of credits and walk into your scoring server any time the Corp tries to score out, and spoilers: you only get four (telegraphed) windows to do it. And if those Windows never come up, remember: The Corp loses from running out their deck, the Runner doesn't. The only real place it's an issue is in those HB Glacier decks, and even then that's more an issue of the power of having 6 3/2s in their arsenal.

>>50920237
My point with Market Research was that you can actually gain extra points instead of stealing them from the Runner. Making the games shorter instead of longer.

In the scenario, the Corp can win the game by scoring ANY of those agendas. Not that he will, that kind of deck most often is planning to flatline the Runner, but doesn't matter now. The point was that the Runner can only win if he finds at least a real 5/3 or a GT, because the rest of the agendas are useless without them since GFI only add up to 6.

>>50919998
>I don't see a similar result here. If anything, this is the complete opposite.

It hurts the corp/reinforce your position for playing certain type of agendas. I think that's actually more interesting than just circumventing them altogether. Balancing is tough. But I'm more interested in valid soft counters.

>>50919750

Yeah, it's cool with lain, but they could have designed a card that host agendas that did not at the same time enclose so tightly a mechanical part of the game.

>>50919998
>How long did Damon said that he wouldn't add a card to the MWL after its release before considering it

I seem to remember it being 6 months/full cycle. I'm not caring too much about that though, so may be wrong.

>>50919018

Core/Directive limits aside, it is still pretty hard to expect Steve to bother taking 3 copies of any program when he can play carefully and stock up on events instead

>>50921066

I'm guessing you were addressing >>50918851

That gives you a faction-native card recursion tool. Easier to just Déjà vu, I'll give you that.

But then, as I was saying, Hunter Seeker is in that box. Makes program valid targets (also, to me there's something irresistible in the possible bluffs too)

>>50920460

It's not "stealing" points though (unless you're EoIing it). The Corp didn't do anything to deny you points you would have scored otherwise. On top of that if you snipe this off RnD, it's not magically making the same harder for you to win. If there were some associated cost that you got stiffed on because it's only worth two points to the Runner then I could understand, but as is it represents at most one extra Agenda the Runner has to steal. So worst case scenario yes. You'd have to steal every Agenda in the deck to win by score out but two things: assuming those were not GFI, the Runner would still have to steal all 3 5/3's anyway if they couldn't find the Takeover. Even if not again, the Runner wins if the Corp draws out and the Corp has a mandatory draw every turn. As long as the Corp can't score out the grind win would eventually go to the Runner.

>>50921704

If those programs are important enough, Steve wouldn't toss the extra copy if given a choice, especially if those enable him to hit HQ to begin with.

That said, since Deja Vu is a core card, he would probably save it as an emergency for the programs instead, since he should hopefully have enough Inf to spare.

Of course, making the corp choose between deja and X event is bound to make things interesting.

>>50920812

It is indeed about 6 months, so we are probably due for the latest version soon-ish. However, that would preclude most of the flashpoint stuff though.

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I can't remember why, but I recently re-found this card the other day, and it struck me that this seems to royally fuck up stealth, and a load of other things besides - has anyone used it, got any tips?

>>50925112
Recurring credits don't count as paid abilities I think.

>>50925112
Stealth? Why? The use of stealth credits is not a paid ability, it doesn't do anything to cloaks , net Mercur or ghost runner.

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>>50925149
>>50925159
Ah, fuck me, I knew there was something I was missing - I was reading it as just a flat "use", not "paid abilities", which of course taking credits isn't.

Still though, could be fun with spiky ice, given that it blocks SMC

>>50925236
It also blocks d4v1d and grappling hook. It's quite the nasty surprise. I just wish it was Weyland's.

>>50925368
Weyland does need more upgrades don't they, a lot of their existing onces are pretty niche to use, the most universal being Off the Grid + Crisium (which is pretty neat with Friends in High Places). Here's to hoping K.P. Lynn is decent.

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>>50925721
Orion into Wormhole into Orion's Trash sub will never cease to amuse me.

The fact that it killed Baba Yaga through a Sac Con was particularly sweet though

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>>50928641
Expensive, but could be pretty nice. Shame it's only once per turn though

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>>50928709
It's quite a hefty install, but the ability is totally worth it, specially with Kit.

>>50929186

Fun factor too.

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>>50925721
There's also Mr Stone, but he might be an asset

>>50928641
Wonder why did they think a vagina would make a good art for this.

>>50932810
Given that he's positioned between Adonis and PAD, very likely he is. What's his in-universe role again?

Someone sell me on SWLCG over this game or vice versa

>>50934781
SWLCG community is pretty dead, the game mechanic is not the worst but it's not the best and the game is only played by SW fans. Which in turn are now dropping SWLCG for X-Wing/Armada which are better in every way and have a growing community of both fans and wargamers.
It is also more expensive.

If anything, you should be deciding between this and Arkham Horror LCG.

>>50934781
The SWLCG is getting an expansion that lets you play the Death Star it seems. Though yeah, X-Wing/Armada does seem a lot more fun.

>>50935470
No real overlap between Netrunner and the AHLCG really since the latter is a co-op, unless you can't support buying into 2 LCGs, in which case the Netrunner core has a lot more mileage than the AHLCG, since you can make more decks with a single core. No real customization with the AHLCG, though you can replay scenarios with different characters and slightly tweaking the neutral cards.

>>50935777
>>50935470
What about this compared to getting all of Conquest?

I'm already in AShes, Thrones, AH and probably gonna get into L5R

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>>50935836
Since Conquest is discontinued, what you see is what you get. You could also ask about Warhammer Invasion.

Personally, I really like how Netrunner expands the base game with cards that allow new tactics and strategies to approach the game. I also love the lore of the game and how it forms stories tying the plays together. I'm a fan of cyberpunk and neo-noir themes.

PS: I'm also getting L5R.

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>>50934601
>What's his in-universe role again?
He's a Cleaner - a wetwork man with similar body mods to Reina (and a nice suit)
He kills, plugs leaks, he uses Bioroids because "no witnesses means no witnesses"
He's the physical antagonist against Reina in Monster Slayer.

From Worlds of Android, the division is officially Pensions and Retirement.

Presumably they also do Housekeeping

>>50935777
The lack of customization is more a product of the small card pool at the moment. I suspect after a couple big boxes it will be a very different game.

But AHLCG is all kinds of "FUN!"

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If I have taken News Team as an agenda to my score area, can I forfeit it using Frame Job?

>>50937230

You can and you should.

Or sell it to your Data Dealer.

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>>50937727

Cool thanks. Was teaching some friends how to play the game, and I wasn't too sure if the card text resolved that way.

>>50936738
The customization is leaps and bounds better when you have two cores, with one you just can't do anything besides mashing two factions cards together then taking your pick of the neutrals.

It's definitely "FUN!" though, love how it straddles between pulp and classic Lovecraft it terms of atmosphere.

>>50937929
People always looked at me funny when I played Data Dealer in all my decks all the way up to Lunar. As a result, plays with ShiKyu and News Team never caught me unprepared when the meta started with those IG decks about reducing points.

>>50941801

Feels good to be ahead of the curve.

>>50942211
To be fair there was not a good reason to really include the card before Shi-Kyu. I used it either to carefully forfeit the excess agendas, like when you steal 2 breaking news and you only need 1 for 7 points. Or to reopen a window that the Corp thought it was safe to score. I sometimes burned a 2 pointer if that meant I denied a score to the Corp.

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>>50942282
Also, sometimes it was just food for Aesop. A 0 cost resource is always amazing.

>>50942282

Always thought it was an undervalued card myself. Not the best card ever, but allowing some pretty solid plays. As I was saying to another player a bit before my Netrunner wintering started: if I sacrifice a GFI to prevent you from scoring another 2-pointers, I'm not in a worse position, *you* are.

Man, I'm really going to miss Kati. Had a game where the corp stacked space ice and Fire Wall on his servers, and I would've been completely locked out without her. I have no idea what would make a good replacement for her, going by the discussion above maybe Data Dealer would be good. Alternatively, just score quickly enough to prevent it in the first place.

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>>50944164
>I'm your econ now, dong ma?

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Seeing the new (unique) regions, Manta and Nihongai, made me wonder if Weyland and NBN would be getting unique regions too in Quorum.

The thing about these regions is that they, like the regions from the San San cycle, are districts of New Angeles - as is NBN's Rutherford Grid

Removing these 3 leaves 8 of New Angeles's 11* districts open for future cards.
Wondering which one they might pick - if they pick one at all - had me looking at the New Angeles board game rules and my copy of Worlds of Android, so I decided to add to my slowly building WoA photo collection and do the New Angeles section

*actually 12, but the last one doesn't count, and already has a card

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>>50946959
Hope this quality is okay.

The New Angeles rules has nice intermittent level of fluff running through the whole thing, including a summary of the districts and the corps by individuals

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>>50947044
Bah, clipped the edge.

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>>50947093
The book is so damn glossy, it's hard to photograph.

Amusingly, for the first game setup, the two Prisec counters you put on the board are on Manta and Nihongai

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>>50947126
The New Angeles board has only 10 districts - the Root counts for the last one, Chakana

It also lists Base De Cayambe as the location for Weyland's HQ, which I've only just noticed

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>>50947213
Laguna Velasco would also make sense though

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>>50947239
>tfw getting the double spread makes it blurry but it's nowhere near as good as two single pages

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>>50947269

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>>50947290
This page and the previous have a foldaway - all one big picture, about arcologies.
It's going to be such a bitch to photgraph at 4x the length of one page

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>>50947325

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>>50947344

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>>50947361
Did not realise how much my shadow was over some of these

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>>50947386
Aparently my first version of this pic had an embedded file.
Which is odd, seeing as it's just a photo

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>>50947516

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>>50947543

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>>50947571

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>>50947638
The last part of the New Angeles section - the next bit is about the rest of the world, which I haven't photographed yet

>>50946959
What's this from?

Are we finally getting an Android universe RPG?

>>50947800
It's from Worlds of Android, which is a pure lorebook - a lot of good background for an RPG, but no rules or anything.
It's pretty damn beefy.

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2016/3/10/access-granted/

>>50947737
Appreciate the upload, thanks.

>>50947800
From the Worlds of Android book, basically a huge book full of Android lore.

>>50946959
>Seeing the new (unique) regions, Manta and Nihongai, made me wonder if Weyland and NBN would be getting unique regions too in Quorum.

While not a region, Bryan Stinson basically fills that spot for Weyland, doesn't he?

>>50947737
>>50947638
>>50947571
>>50947543
>>50947516
>>50947386
>>50947361
>>50947344
>>50947325
>>50947290
>>50947269
>>50947239
>>50947213
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>>50946959
Cheers anon!

>>50948247
Well he works like them, and he is an upgrade, so I guess.

Hmm, when we get Terminal Directive we'll have a brief period of time where Bryan can add 15 credits (18 in Core Weyland) from archives.

If Bryan is Weyland's Manta and Nihongai, I'd say he's between the two in power - and his 'whenever' is actually particularly notable with BABW - it allows you to get the most of the runner's low credit window

>>50949071
>Hmm, when we get Terminal Directive we'll have a brief period of time where Bryan can add 15 credits

45 (48) from zero with right celestial alignment: Restructure, Restructure, Restructure.
Or are meaning 15 in one click, in which case 15 (16 for BaBW)?

Anyway, I find him more powerful than either Mantra of Nihongai in that no run trigger needed. So at worst you can, say, play a trace Operation to force the runner into being broke -or losing the trace, then be back in the game in one/two click.

>>50949377
That's not adding 45 - it's adding 15.

Restructure, Restructure, IPO does the same (in BABW you can do hedge->restructure->IPO to gain 17 from 5), though I'd be interested in him + the "Level Clearances" (if IPO is there then there's also BLACK level clearance, for when Violet just won't cut it)

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>>50949529
Forgot image.

Oh, and yeah, using him + a trace is pretty nice, didn't think of that one

>>50949529
Bryan ignores costs, all costs, all of them. Restructure literally is a 15 (16) credits profit.

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>>50949556
Oh fuck me that's good. Sure, you never get to use them again, but still...

This is why I should read cards more carefully.

>>50949633

We all get tired and misread something.

>>50949555
Is this really worth ever runnnig over Restructure?

>>50950643
Well restructure is rotating, it requires less credits, and it gives you 3 more "I can't believe it's not restructure"s - pretty good.

It also probably won't be rotating (being from TD and all), which is even better

>>50950735
Oh right rotation

Do we have any official spoilers about TD?

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Yeah, >>50909480 and a handful of Weyland (Hunter Seeker, Hortum,Bloodletter) IPO, and pic related for HB

>>50949377
>>50949529
>>50949556
>Not installing 3 IUSE before any of this.

It's like you don't even want to rip off the public via financial collapse.

>>50951269
IUSE?

>>50951439
Indian Union Stock Exchange

>>50948247
Big difference with the grids and Bryan is the latter is affected by Rumor Mill. Trivial, probably, but still worth mentioning.

>>50949377
SEA Source fork into either double scorched or Bryaned Restructure/IPO/Hedge Fund > Hard Hitting News is going to be a really strong play. Probably the only situation where a double scorched is preferable.

>>50949529
Black Level is terminal isn't it? Using the double might be better since Bryan ignores the click cost.

>>50954334
Oh, just realized that Violet is terminal, we don't know anything about Black Level yet.

>>50954920

Triple?

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>>50955552
Could be, seeing as they exist now

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>>50955863
>In space no one can hear you reee that Day Job isn't a quadruple. Or a job.

And it's not like it's reserved for just illicit activities, freelance coding, codebusting and trading all have the subtype.

Might only be for work where you use your 133t runner skills though.

>>50955979
Or Day Job is just something to get money from, and doesn't even qualify as a job.

>>50945321
Might actually be worth it with On the Lam out to avoid Breaking News shenanigans, though she's certainly no Kati. If the intent is just to close scoring windows though, I'm definitely leaning towards Data Dealer.

>>50956353
If we are talking data dealer, I want to remind that fan site is just as good for it as it is for Artist Colony. Only problem is faction and influence.

>>50956353

Actually, it's not a job, the three clicks represent all the red tape you have to get rid off to safely *pretend* working.

Huh, I just noticed something - Baba Yaga is an AI that can't break traps or mythic ice

>>50957170
Yeah, don't know how sad that is.

>>50958555
Well no, but if they ever make good ones...

And whirlpool might be good with Aginfusion

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>>50935777
>>50934781
>>50935470
If only they'd just revive the glorious Star Wars CCG...

>>50956395
If you have the spare influence, 1 for 9 credits is decent if you look at Temujin as 10 credits for 1 influence. Problem is that Crim doesn't really have the draw necessary to get them out quickly, before the corp has started scoring agendas. Could be wrong though, some Crim draw engines can be pretty fast.

>>50960722
Yeah, drug dealers are pretty solid for draw, also masanori and Earthside hotel completes those pretty well.

>>50961346
Between Earthside and Masanori, which would make a better complement if you're planning on running atleast once per turn (with equal chances at being successful or unsuccessful) and already using Obelus for draw? Masanori fits the run plan better but I'm really hesitant about the tag, even with Citadel Sanctuary. Earthside gives a shorter burst of draw and is expensive, but may be enough during those lulls between hammering servers.

>>50964576

Well chances are they'll trash Johnny Boy if you let a tag stick, otherwise I'd recommend him whole hog what with the synergy between Obelus and floating tags. As it is had you considered Turning Wheel? If you're primarily threatening Centrals and just want occasional burst draw, doesn't seem like a bad solution. Personally I've been using it with Nerve Agent/Medium, but that's subject to the usual purges so it's not as consistent.

Made a silly jank Blackguard deck variation for New Year's Eve. After 5 games, only got to draw/play it twice.

Last game, they literally were the last cards of the deck.

I was mad.

>>50965248
Would they really? The draw is annoying but he's not really something I'd pick to trash first, especially if there's other targets like Kati or Temujin. Plus he'd probably be best with support like Citadel. And yeah, I'm using Turning Wheel for multi-access, which honestly is another no-mbo with Masanori since you can't just run into safe ETR ice repeatedly to build it up.

>>50967596

Well I don't like to go too resource-heavy with Obelus builds simply because being able to go Tag Me as a backup plan frees up a lot of options. Obviously it's not your first strategy, but it's really quite liberating to watch the Corp spend big bucks to stick a tag just for you to go "Well, fuck it. Infinity-card hand. Enjoy your Booms, bro"

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>>50969529
RIP Emelyov

Quorum is due in stores on the 12, so hopefully we should be seeing spoilers soon - I found the box's cover art with the name "Tribunal", wonder what it'll be for

>>50971794

Can't wait. Receiving my copy of the cycle as soon as Quorum hits the stores.

>>50971794
>>50972987
This week Martial Law gets to my FLGS

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Despite the shenanigans with the likes of Nexus, I definitely think Citadel Sanctuary is a better designed card than NACH.

Though BN (and Film Critic) means NACH is the stronger card overall - though it's fairly close, which is nice

>>50975617
Arriving at mine probably in the middle of the month, which makes me sad. Atleast I'll finally be able to update my decks then though.

>>50978272
Citadel is definitely better in the sense you can't just include it and your deck just magically becomes better at a thing, you need to give it some support otherwise it isn't worth it. Plus the penalty for messing up is a lot bigger too.

>>50971794

Hopefully there would be more spoilers for 42 sooner rather then later, given that it would probably appear in Feb at the earliest.

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>>50984199
Interestingly, we have both known unknowns and unknown unknowns - the cards from the base packs, and the cards from the secret packs, respectively.

I fully expect most of the cards listed in the decklists to be spoiled, but I wonder if the secret packs will stay relatively secret, being story-based and all.

We know for sure that the game has unlisted cards, as there's a couple in the rulebook, like pic related:

Collect Evidence 3/2
As soon as you win a game with Collect Evidence in your points zone, open set 2

The yellow diamond means "for campaign play only"


The listed unknowns are:
Seidr Laboratories, Skorpios Defence Systems, Hardened Servers, Bribe Money, Mr Stone, Colossus, Hailstorm, K.P.Lynn, Tapestry, Eli 2.0, Black Level Clearance, Mason Bellamy, Optional Upgrade, Successful Field Test

Ayla "Bios" Rahim, Careful Planning, Deep Data Mining, Process Automation, Ubax, Adept, Mammon, Biometric Spoofing, Dean Lister, Dhedgdheer, Laguna Velasco District, Quack, Polyhistor, Spear Phishing, Brute Force Hack

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>when the runner steals your biomedical breakthrough, making the other one installed a 3/2, and your last one a 2/2

And then they try and use The Black File against INNOCENT Harmony Medtech, whose only crime was looking after clones in their old age...

Though they didn't get cards fast enough to win, though they looked ready to next turn

>>50984453

There is a possibility that the sample decks did not use ALL the non-campaign cards, although there can't be that many left even if that were the case.

SL is probably going all-in FA with 6 3/2 agendas at this rate.

>>50984826
>SL is probably going all-in FA with 6 3/2 agendas at this rate.
Yeah, looks that way.

Didn't even think that their might be non-used non-campaign cards - I'm going to have to find how many total the box was meant to have - though idk if that total counts campaign cards or not...

>>50978272

Honestly I like Sanctuary better as a card but the very presence of Breaking News means that I'm just invariably going to find NACH to be the go-to. If News left the scene I'd happily trade in my Halls for Sanctuaries.

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>>50985743
Yeah, Breaking News Bullshit - NBN BNB - means that NACH is just flat out better, which is annoying

I don't know how hard the issue is going to be to fix though - 2 of the biggest cards are non-rotating, and they've already hit NBN's agendas in core

>>50985904

Well isn't that the point of the theoretical Core 2.0? To effectively reboot the core set while replacing some of its problem children a la BN and Yog with more... appropriate alternatives. Though really the biggest issue here is BN itself. It was fine back in core when the game was just getting started, but the issue was that they decided that they wanted to explore the design space with tags further, meaning that tag punishment has become *insane*. I don't have an issue with that in and of itself, I like some of the directions they've gone with it like tags as a second form of currency for the Corp, but the problem is in an environment with Breaking News these things go from "punish the Runner for making a mistake" to "Punish the Runner for doing things. Or for not doing things. Who cares?"

>>50985904
>I don't know how hard the issue is going to be to fix though
BN's biggest issues are probably the ability to NA it without telegraphing, and the follow-up plays after the non-conditional tags. For the former, increasing the advance requirement will probably enough, maybe to a 3/1. That would require the corp to advance it atleast once to make use of the ability. Maybe even as a 4/1 it wouldn't be that bad, since you normally only need a single click for shenanigans anyway.

The latter can be tackled by either targeting the follow-up plays, or the non-conditional tags. If you go for the follow-ups, the problem is that such plays seem to be clearly intended to be an option, as the tags were supposed to go away at the end of a turn. So obviously you should go about "fixing" the unconditional tags. Reversing the "tags stay after BN gets forfeited" ruling would probably be prudent. After that, either add an out for the runner from the tags, or add a condition for scoring. For example, the runner could pay 4 credits and trash a resource to avoid the tags, or they could add a "This agenda may only be scored if the runner made a successful run on their last turn." condition. Either of these would leave BN still functional and make it a lot trickier to use while giving the runner an out if they suspect it is on the table, plus they would solve the 24/7 News Cycle combo as well. I prefer this method since they'd be able to make up a thematic reasoning as well.

Without modifying the card though? Bumping it to 3 pips of influence will probably cripple it's usage enough I'm guessing.

>>50988454

What about making it a trace-on-score for the tags? Do you think that would help the problem at all?

>>50989040
Not really, unless the trace is veeery small, like 0 or 1.

>>50989040
The thing with turning it into a trace war is that with the right timing, the trace can be trivial to win, which wouldn't change BN plays that much. Plus they could just fire a HHN after sapping your credits with trace-BN.

>>50989087

That seems a bit extreme. I was thinking more like trace 2 or 3. The objective I thought was just to give a runner an out to the tags in the first scenario, not hobble the card completely. The Corp is already spending into scoring out BN most of the time. I think trace 2 would be reasonable. It means short of a high link start, the Runner has to spend *something* to keep the tags off but the Corp still has to likely invest more if they want those tags to land.

>>50989291

But that at least has the stipulation that the Runner had to have run last turn, and while they're a bit more telegraphed, Breaking News>Closed Accounts>HHN plays are already a think, and that requires considerably fewer credits than a theoretical Trace war, nor does it care about the Runner's credit pool. You can pull that trick off even if the Runner is *considerably* richer than you.

>>50989512

Thing, even

>>50989512
I suppose you're right, but the no effort tag does seem to be BN's main point, which is why I never considered adding a trace to it. Plus it just feels like the penalty for winning the trace can be a bit much and too variable vs 4 credits and a resource.

>>50989657
But even 4 credits and a resource is a *lot* to ask and not every deck runs tons of resources. Some run so few that that's potentially *worse* than the two tags rather than an out.

2/1s without drawbacks were a mistake.

>>50990568
I agree, Clone retirement is clever and strikes a nice balance probably.

>>50990505
A flat 4 credits and a resource is personally preferable to potentially using up your whole credit pool just to fight off a single trace honestly. The fork that the trace could potentially give is just too big a penalty for me, especially for a 1-point agenda, and even taking into consideration the higher investment needed to land the trace. If the resource requirement is the problem, then change it into "an installed card" instead for a wider hitzone.

>>50990568
There's only 2, and they're both NBN - Lukas's NBN favouritism was a mistake

>>50991840
Oh shit, it's true. How am I not surprised.
The rest either give out bad pub or is a 2/0.

>>50990790

But that doesn't solve the fundamental problem with Breaking News. One of my friends to it best: Breaking News creates scenarios where there is no "right play". Even if you do everything right, the card still punishes you because while there are already cards that punish runs, BN punishes you for *not* running as well. Having your choices be "take two tags" or "pay money *and* board state" is still punishing the Runner for not running the card. With a trace, the Corp has to at least be richer than you, and financial swings are already a normal part of the game, while allowing the actual counterplay of managing your finances properly. You have to consider how much the Corp is willing to spend in both the Click investment to score the Agenda and the monetary to get the trace off. Though with that in mind, thinking on it further 1-2 is probably the correct base amount for the trace.

>>50975617
>>50980302
>tfw when you shop at FFG and pick up packs the day they're released

I never knew we were that lucky...

>>50994022
I want to say we were better off before the asmodee merger, but I'd be lying. When the merger was announced we thought we'd finally get the packs on time. But it's the same delay anyway.

Runner-side spoilers for Quorum out!

https://www.reddit.com/r/Netrunner/comments/5lp2ka/quorum_spoilers_runner/

It's really gg for glacier now.

>>50996188
SIFR
Anarch - Hardware - Console - 5 cost - 1 inf
+2 MU
Once per turn, when you encounter a piece of ice, you can choose to lower your hand size by 1 until your next turn. That ice has strength 0 for the rest of the encounter.

Final straw. I quit Netrunner.
This card is in no way balanced.
I can toss this into a Kate deck and Atman 0 or Parasite combo to deal with all but 2 ICE in the game.
Dropping down to 4 hand size is not even a negative, any combo that kills you at 4 will kill you at 5.
Hell feels like an auto slow for most Anarch lists I have seen too.

Netrunner I love you... But you have a card design problem and we need to spend some time apart.

>>50992581
You have to consider the follow ups after landing or not landing the trace as well, money and board state isn't as punishing as fighting a trace if you ask me. Are you saying your deck has no cheap to install cards that you can trash to prevent the tags that you ALSO have the second copy of either in your grip or in your stack? Literally impossible, best case you could trash one of the conspiracy breakers and just run into a piece of ice next turn.

We might be facing the problem wrong though, your friend is right, both "add a trace" and "prevention option" still punish the runner regardless of what they do. Instead of making it harder for the corp to score Breaking News, the "solution" needs to present an easy to understand "right play", and shouldn't affect the runner too much since it is only a 2/1. Perhaps a combination of making it a 3/1 and adding "score only when the runner has made a successful run" would help. In addition, maybe make it Public?

I also want to add something that makes BN give the tags during the Runner's turn, but that is probably something different entirely.

>>50997172

I wanted to believe it was a translation mistake. That's quite a mouthful for sure.
Can't say I like it one bit - I'm guessing that's the overpowered NULL card we had heard about at the beginning of the cycle. All this MWL work thrown down the drain for one card. Only one influence too.

>>50996188

Digging the crim cards, though the "ignore subroutine" one kinda magnifies faction issues all by itself.

>>50992581
>Breaking News creates scenarios where there is no "right play".

Just like Howard (at least for the longest time).
I don't even mind the "damn if you do, damn if you don't" if the opportunity cost for the corp is rightly balanced.

But just compare with Weyland (Project Vulcan/Posted Bounty) or Jinteki (Project Junebug/Ronin) choices, and the balance is so ridiculously in favor of NBN.

I'm guessing some players with their refusal to play past a certain risk threshold *are* part of the issue as it grew, but even taking that into account, when you reach a certain level of imbalance, there's not much real choice left.

>>50996188
All of the Criminal cards are amazing. Pay your way out of access damage, get money while the corp is rich (no minimum credit count either), a repeatable Inside Job (for single sub ice), AND clickless tag removal + draw? I'm swooning. I do wish Aaron is 3 influence though, but I guess even at 2 Tem + 2 Aaron, 8 influence is not insignificant. He also puts On the Lam in a weird place, though if you have both and he doesn't have any counters yet OtL will save your bacon from Hard Hitting News.

As for SIFR, if you're worried about ice trashing, consider that you can recur 18 ice using just Preemptive Action to recur 3 Friends in High Places. If you're worried about the rez cost, then it's time to invest in some Breaker Bay property. If you're worried about the break cost, then have multiple 6+ to break ice. It's certainly strong, and I do hope the corp gets a lot more econ for their half, but it is still playable around, and is expensive to install. A well timed Enforced Curfew or Neural EMP into Scorched will deter runners from using it a little, atleast in Weyland anyway.

Personally, Anarch has enough good consoles that they probably won't bother with this, splashing it into Crim to help with their inefficient breakers might be good instead. I do wonder if Navi Mumbai Grid will work against it though.

>>50997748

You're assuming the Corp is always going to spend into the trace though. I've found that people aren't very willing to pay into traces they aren't sure they can win, and often times trying to use a trace as a tax does more harm to the one initiating the trace than good. Imagine you and the Runner are both sitting on around 20-ish credits and you just spend two clicks scoring Breaking News. How much are you REALLY willing to spend to make sure those tags stick? Even assuming that you have *just* enough to make the tags stick, how do you capitalize? You had to spend pretty much your entire credit pool to get there, and if the Runner didn't bother trying to match the trace, you now have a tagged, but now much richer than you Runner to deal with, so chances are they can just shake off the tags and rebuild much faster than you. (You can, of course, follow up with Closed Accounts, but at that point you've pretty much leveled the playing field rather than demolishing the Runner's board for minimal investment) If the Runner DOES spend into the trace to avoid the tags, who cares if the Runner's broke? So is the Corp. Now if the Corp is *richer* than the Runner, then yes, the Runner's in for a bad time, but that's true for many aspects of the game. And that's the point. Adding a trace means that the corp actually has to have a position to leverage the tags a la having more credits than the runner at the time to be worth it, as opposed to being able to slap it down whenever and "Oops, I win" because you snuck one Breaking News through.

On top of that, decks aren't homogeneous. A lot of decks run one or two-ofs and even then, having to dig for another copy of something often more than sufficiently kills a deck's tempo to the point where you're literally stuck doing nothing for several turns. If you don't believe me, run multiples of all your Icebreakers and tell me how often you willingly let trash subs on ICE fire, *especially* without Conspiracy breakers.

>>50997172

I mean it's *one* piece of ICE *once* per turn. Parasite is still a problem, I'll grant you, but it's not like they can use it on literally every piece of ICE you play. The biggest shift I think it means is that Corps wanting to go deep need to invest in more multi-sub ICE, which, to be fair, we're getting a lot more of. Tollbooth and Data Ward still make you pay to get through, etc. Calm. The fuck. Down. It looks really powerful, yes. Perhaps more than it should be. Let's see how the meta shapes up before you complain about how this card singlehandedly kills the game.

>>50998355
Why would you invest into a trace if you didn't have a plan to back it up though? All of the usual Breaking News tactics still apply even with the trace, so the Runner has plenty of incentive to fight it, which later opens up other opportunities to capitalize on. 4 credits and a card (the Runner chooses by the way, in case you thought otherwise) is a flat prevention cost that, when the Runner has seen that the corp is playing NBN, will have prepared for, and play their cards as such. If trashing a card kills your tempo, then why choose that? Why not choose the other commonly splashed cards like Daily Casts, Temujin, Same Old Thing, PolOp, other transient cards that you preferably already have a second card in hand anyway?

It's pretty clear that we have different mind sets approaching this; you want the BN score to affect the corp as well, I want a stable answer and a way to play around the unconditional tags. Either way, the plays that open is still too much when the agenda in question is only a 2/1, and wouldn't really improve the problem, just adds more to it, as both solutions still provide a fork at a reasonable cost. Going at it from a different angle and shaping BN to be more like the other 2-to-score agendas is probably better.

>>50998786

Well you wouldn't, and that's rather my point. There's nothing stopping the corp from just scoring Breaking News even if they aren't planning to pay into it, but if you have something to punish the tags with, then you have to be able to commit to it, rather than just throwing Breaking News down and sitting there on "I have things to punish this run but if I score this Breaking News you get royally screwed anyway"

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RIP in peace, Netrunner. You are an amazing game, but the competitive side is a complete joke because of design decisions like this.

>>51001157
Pic is not what I'm complaining about, it's just symbolic for my feelings about the game.

>>51001157

https://fusionhaa.wordpress.com/2017/01/03/lead-designer-damon-stone-updates-facebook-page/

Well, this can't be good either.

>>51001213
Holy shit, one designer after the other is going to mess with the meta pretty hard.

>>51001421
In a bad way, I suspect.

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>>51001213
Well that's not good, he's only got what, one, two cycles done?

>>50997172
This is just bullshit.

Unless the corp side is basically 100% glacier support, which it won't be, because the design team hate ice.

There's also 2 points from interviews to add context to this.
One, Damon said a card got buffed in the cycle that'll really piss people off. Well, it could have been BOOM, it could have been Temujin, CTM, or Mercur, but it was almost certainly this. So it's not all him.

On the other hand, he's also said "no server should be unbreakable" - he likes the traps and bluffs netrunner.


Uh, I guess Lotus exists.
And soon pic related, a 3 cost 1 strength fucking barrier

>>50997172
>1 inf
Nice.
Juuuust rub it in a little more.

Oh, fuck, Professor, get on this, seeing as you can have 3x Clone and Parasite.

Man, there REALLY needs to be ice destruction punishment

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>>51001213
This would be cool if it wasn't for that giant turd in the pool Sifr

Crim gets Breaking News hate in pic releated - proper hate (sorry PB) - and it's splashable to boot, and Tapeworm and Recon Drone both look decent, Tracker is cool - a semi inside job, Sunya has that build up thing like Nfr that's clearly for Null (it also combos with Sifr, but if that were the only type of effect that Sifr worked with people wouldn't be complaining), Peace in Our Time and Encore have already been seen and look okay

>>51001507
That is nice but almost all the factions have easy ways to negate traps and Corp deck card slots are so limited that at high level play traps are not really worth it.

Aaron Marron will likely be the death of kill decks in the competitive Meta.
SIFR will kill Glacier.
Guess we are going back to the Fast Advance meta for the million time.
IDK why I keep giving FFG my money...

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>>51003381
Yeah, I wasn't being positive when I said that.

Well, not until we get better traps

Aaron, well you can at least kill him with anti-connection tricks

But yeah, looks like it's FA for days unless the corps get a serious shot in the arm for glacier.

On the plus side, at least Weyland is getting in on the FA game and might be decent at it, at last

>>51003434
>Aaron, well you can at least kill him with anti-connection tricks

That just cycles back into the classic problem with Corps of not having the card slots to run Silver Bullets.
Cards like Aaron have zero downside for the runner. at WORST vs a non-tagging deck it is non-action card draw. Connection killing cards for the Corp all have a big downside. Snatch and Grab is a non-starter as they just take the tag and remove it with Aaron. Contract Killer is awful in it's own right.

I know you are not really defending the idea but it is just frustrating to see the game fall apart like this.
IDK what we can get for better traps even, Damage is almost meaningless at this point unless it directly kills, Trashing programs does not open that big a window in most decks or we'd see more Aggressive Secretary play. We'd have to see something like "Install and Rez X ICE from Archives ignoring all costs. X is the number of Advancements on this card"

>>51003606
Ignoring the rez cost would be insane, and would only work with insane drawbacks, like adding it to the runners score are as a 2-pointer.

>>51003659
Or an X-pointer.

File: Snatch and Grab.jpg (638KB, 1000x769px) Image search: [Google]

638KB, 1000x769px

>>51003606
In most circumstances Aaron doesn't get that many counters - most regular tags will still stick, and if you weren't throwing a ton of tags at the runner then you're not going to kill them anyway.

Doesn't mean you won't have to load up on silver bullets, but he's not the end of kill decks.

Just ones that use Breaking News, which can go fuck itself anyway (and Posted Bounty, but you only really get kills with that if the runner isn't paying attention)

Traps do need to be better, but there's definitely options - a trap that flat out removes a breaker, for example.
Or maybe something that ends the runner's turn.
Or steals a fuckload of money.

But they definitely need to be better if everything is becoming so porous.

What I'd really like to see is some ice-trash punishment/prevention - just some non-unique way(s) to make ice matter a bit:
>"Ice protecting this server cannot have their strength altered."
<"When/the first time a piece of ice protecting this server is trashed during a run do 2 net damage"
>"When/the first time a piece of ice is trashed during a run on this server, gain credits equal to its rez cost"
<"When/the first time a piece of ice protecting this server would be trashed, derez it instead"
>"When/the first time a piece of ice is trashed during a run on this server trash an installed runner card/program/piece of hardware"
ect.

>>51002216

I don't know if it's cool, but I'm quite certain it will bolster the number of people stopping with cardpool upgrade once the mars cycle is over. Which in my book is not good - going to splinter the user base even more.

>>51001507
>he's also said "no server should be unbreakable"

Which I find is a fair design rule: there shouldn't exist a server for which a solution doesn't exist in the cardpool.
The problem is balancing (opportunity) costs.

>>51002216
>Aaron Marron will likely be the death of kill decks in the competitive Meta.

Well, we do have tag-less kill decks being built right now. These should be more robust against him. Starting from scratch though.
I'm again troubled by the low influence of powerful crim cards.

>SIFR will kill Glacier.

I'm not so sure bout "kill". My main issue is more how it's kicking down the big ICE play that already suffered (while also menacing low str/high subs via Parasite). All that at no significant cost. It's not so much glacier getting killed as much as ICE play being devalued once more.
The one influence is just the last straw: print a replacement to Datasucker - a card people complain shouldn't have been one influence -that is more immediately powerful and manageable (tough I guess with an upper ceiling)... and only costs one influence.

NFR is three and SIFR one? Should have been the other way round if you ask me.

>>51003830
>Posted Bounty, but you only really get kills with that if the runner isn't paying attention

I think you're selling it short, in a good rush deck the runner can really end up between a rock and a hard place because of it.

If anything, I'm thinking a SIFR overload could enable Cybernetic Division/Curfew kill decks...