Warmachine/Hordes General - /wmhg/

Cryx Army - 75 / 75 points

(Mortenebra 1) Master Necrotech Mortenebra [+24]
- Deryliss
- Harrower [16]
- Harrower [16]
- Leviathan [16]
- Slayer [10]
- Slayer [10]
- Slayer [10]
- Slayer [10]
Necrotech [2]
Necrotech [2]
Necrotech [2]
Scrap Thrall [2]
Scrap Thrall [2]
Soul Trapper [1]

Venethrax should've got sacrificial lamb instead. Ironic that Mortenebra sucks in the jack edition.

SKREEEEONNNNKK BABBBYYYYYYY

>>50825232
>Latest Errata: July
Can you dumb niggers actually put the latest errata up.

>>50825375
YOU GOT EM

>PPS_Pastrami: ... We have made 89 changes to Skorne. This is not the number of models changed, but the number of rules changes inside of models. (This is a current number, and is possible to change... I wouldn't want to "Shick" this...) Hold on to your butts!

So where the fuck is the troll command book pdf

>>50825282
skreeeeeeonk

>>50825332

Problem is WMH needs to grow to turn over the profits they need to keep the doors open, and the game is mature enough that there aren't that many holes to fill by releasing new models.

Wouldn't surprise me if they try to move to a stronger online presence with a subscription-based War Room Online to try to get a source of non-new-model revenue coming in. WotC did this with D&D4, and literally only failed because their lead developer killed his wife and himself.

If they do this, hopefully they ditch Tinkerhouse.

>>50825514
People are already pissed at having to rebuy WR2, and now they announce free cards.

This would notwork for WMH

>>50825540
People were pissed off about having to rebuy WR2. People are now pissed off about the free cards. There's no universal solution.

I think people would be less pissed off about rebuying WR2 if it wasn't a colossal piece of shit.

You'd need to have a definite value proposition for a subscription service, and things like free time for buying battleboxes and such, but I think it's doable and I'm not sure there's another way to keep running a *good* game long-term -- people hate GW because 40k has been mature for a long time so they need to shake stuff up to force new purchases constantly. WMH is on that horizon, and its players are going to have to put money in PP's pockets one way or the other to have a tabletop game that keeps getting support.

>>50825332
if, at any point, you buy a model for the sheer purpose of you believing it is going to be overpowered enough to shift the entire meta, you're a retard for thinking they're not gonna nerf it if it does just that.

>>50825514
>killed his wife and himself
woah what. I had no clue something like that happened, god damn.
Also, if they did the subscription-based WR2 I would hope it would be something more "you get cool new alt model things monthly that you can play with as WR-exclusive content" and not "you have to pay monthly to use these cards"

>>50825540
honestly the free card announcement makes me happy, even if I did just buy a new deck that is essentially now worth 1/4 of what I paid for it. The best thing they could do, I think, would be to make War Room a pay-upfront app with monthly subscriptions (probably lower than what you're paying now if it's a subscription service) for things like the No Quarter magazine built straight into the app, or monthly releases of alternate exclusive cards that are appropriately balanced but add a nice new layer to the game.

PP should just sell pay to win.

$5: Use your feat twice in one game.
$2: Reroll a failed roll, or add an extra die.

You buy all perks in War Room.

so, since Kickass.to is down are we gonna have a repository somewhere for all the NQ/books and all that or do we need to download them one at a time now

So any decent changes in the errata so far?

>>50825789
Use the magnet link

>>50825293
IKRPG is already out, unless you meant something else.

>>50825823
Honestly khador is a net positive I feel for the game.

>>50825823
Madrak2 and Wurmwood got pretty seriously nerfed.
Haley1, Haley2, Caine2, and Ossyan got nerfed.
Sentry Stones and Hellmouths got slightly nerfed.
You can't power attack your own models (which is a big change, but tones down a lot of HR/Amon bullshit and generally improves the value of DEF).

Missing: Storm Lances, Kara Sloan, and Una2 were untouched.

>>50825899

What did they change about wurmwood? I see the feat change and I'm not sure I'm picking up on the nerf

>>50825899
Oh, and Mad Dogs and Berserkers got nerfed to the point of uselessness.

Alten Ashely and Lanyssa Ryssyl went up in cost.

>>50825911
Went from control range to command range -- 14" to 10", which is pretty major.

>>50825940

Oh that's rough.

>>50825854
Like an IKRPG computer game.

>>50825659
I think if you provided:

- Full, searchable access to rules *and a maintained and hyperlinked set of infernal rulings*
- Printing tools for building formatted lists with things like damage boxes on the list and such
- Early access to limited release models
- Game matching services with a maintained list of shops to play at and a slick interface for setting up games with other players

Enough of the playerbase would be willing to pay a small monthly fee for access to generate enough revenue to keep the game going without degenerating into the GW "shake everything up and resell" model.

But it has to be *good*. War Room is not good by any stretch of the imagination.

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>>50825899

>no more throwing your own warcaster at the enemy assassinations

>>50826063
That's exactly the point, yes.

>>50826014
Cool in concept but it'd probably go the path that Warmachine Tactics did.

>>50825899
Haley 1 was barely touched an not any sort of real issue. Ditto for Caine 2. Haley 2 is almost untouched. It's fucking bullshit. Especially since they didn't touch the fucking 'lances.

I don't see much wrong with Sloan.

>>50826081

The game has gotten more and more sterile and standardized. People don't play nearly as much as they used to because the community accepted way of playing is just boring after 6 years.

This is just one more step down that road

>>50826211
So much for "muh page 5" and "play like you've got a pair"

>property being mad at war room 2 after the card announcement

To be fair, wr2 makes it so we don't need to print cards. They're always up to date right away. We can list build. We can also get access to theme lists without needing books. It a convenience thing.

>>50826267

It used to be that way friend. Times are changing.

playing with 2d "terrain" is awful

>>50826285
Not when everyone else is getting them faster and more accurately from other sources.

>>50826319
Yeah, I mean your models don't slide off the hills, you don't have to balance them precariously on objects, god it's just terrible.

>>50826376
you don't see the irony in using 3d models....

why not just play with bases that have names on them? that'd surely be more convenient

>>50826414
>Being this autistic

I could stomach the lack of balance. But taking away power attacking your own models kills the very last ounce of casual appeal. FUCK.

>>50826304
It's sad really, I'm not going to say mk1 was balanced in any sense of the word but I do remember it being super fun and new mk2 was the beginning of the end in my opinion since that's when the game took a super passive approach of just bricking up and fattly sitting on objectives

Did the errata at least fix takedown for troll theme thingy? Or they forgot/couldnt give a fuck again.

>>50826535

They took the league of legends approach to balance by making everyone boring instead of the dota approach of making everyone OP as fuck

>>50826681
It was fixed.

>>50826745
Yeah Warmahordes should be the YuGiOh of tabletop.

>>50826319
WMH is the only game I like to play with 2D terrain. The measurements and placement are just too important to derp around propping Terminus's 20lb fragile, metal ass on a hill.

Everything else 3D terrain for sure

except GW's craters. Fuck those things.

>>50826853
I mean forests, walls, shrubs, houses and the like are find.
Rivers, trenches and ponds are 2D out of necessity, since it would be impracitcal to move holes in tables just for terrain.

Hills and bridges are really the only terrain that needs to be 2D, and thats just because there isn't really any good way to make models stick to hit you could stick magnets inside the hill, but then you would have to have your whole gaming group put magnets on their bases

>>50826991
Individual magnets inside the hill and individual magnets on the bases? That's a great way to make models snap to a point and completely destroy putting them at arbitrary points. Nice job. You could've just had a thin metal sheet in the hill but no, you had to ruin everything.

>>50826414
Games will take longer

>>50827229
From experience of doing similar things in the past, you *always* want to solve this problem by putting something ferrous in the mini and the magnet in whatever you want to attach it to.

Else your models may attempt some strange pseudo-sexual congress in the middle of a fight.

>>50827537
Yeah but you don't want to attach your mini to an exact spot on the hill, you want to attach it to an arbitrary spot on the hill.

>>50825232
I am building

Irusk2
- Behemoth
- Kodiak
- Kodiak
- Sylys
Winter Guard Infantry
- Officer
- Rocket
- Rocket
- Rocket
Winter Guard Rifle Corps
- Rocket
- Rocket
- Rocket
Winter Guard Field Gun
Kovnik Joe

Funny thing is that thanks to the infantry cost reduction, Behemoth's increase didn't matter. Nothing changed, except that Joe got worse.

On a scale of 1 to Trump, how are you guys feeling about the errata?

>>50828142
And Cygnar is going to pay for it!

>>50828142
4/10

It's an average errata during a time where we needed above average errata.

>Cygnar - 11
>Menoth - 2
>Khador - 13
>Cryx - 10
>Ret - 3
>Convergence - 4
>Mercs - 4
>Trolls - 4
>Circle - 5
>Legion - 8
>Minions - 5
Total changes - 69

>Skorne - 89

>>50828142
1
Haley 2 needed a harder nerf and nothing was done for internal balance. Haley 1 and Caine 2 are barely affected by the changes. They weren't even that big of an issue, compared to Haley 2 and 'Lances.

What's this I hear about free cards? Did/will they release the mk3 decks as PDFs or what?

>>50828323
My gators went down a whole point, solving zero of thier issues. They still don't do enough for the pricetag. An attempt was made, I guess.

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>>50828142
Overall disappointing, but in my opinion predictably so. They only utterly fucked up a few things (pic related), but some buffs are actually pretty cool.

Overall, the quality of the errata wasn't as much of an issue as the quantity... /10

>>50828463
Holy fuck they did say just that. This will certainly tempt me into trying mk3.

>>50828463
>>50828570
Yes, you'll be able to print them out yourself for free now.

Also, no more copyright. You can post them and directly recite rules where and whenever the fuck you want.

>>50828470
You literally get to bring a free solo now. Posse are good with some warlocks. Calaban can make them MAT8 PS16 on their two attacks which is very strong. Hell there's a bunch of casters that can amp up their damage output, which is perfectly on a model with two beefy attacks. Posse seem fine to me.

>>50827649
>Not running Vlad1 and 15 rockets

>>50828714
No knockdown Tough Bubble yo.

>>50828592
>You can post them and directly recite rules where and whenever the fuck you want.
Only on the PP forums.

>>50828592
Does this also mean that someone will be able to make a good War Room clone without fear of a C&D?

>>50828616
Lost pathfinder access at all, three hitboxes, a point of MAT, bloodlust moved to prayer instead of passive. They stayed the same MK II cost until just now. I played them in Barnabas, Rask, and Maelock in MK II, I know when something's gimped.

But hey, now I get "free" gobbers or feralgiest while i contine to be slower, less accurate, and less durable. Thanks, death march, I'm glad I swapped iron flesh for that MAT hit.

>>50829252
Just so you know, you're talking to a Skorne player. At least your heavy infantry doesn't cost 20 points with a 6 point UA before you even start adding the support needed to make it not die like a 7 point Agonizer and a 4 point Willbreaker just to hand out tough. And even then they still die to weaponmaster charges so you gotta only ever use them with Xerxis1 because he's now our only caster that can support them ever since PP decided that Makeda1 was destroying the competitive Mk2 metagame so deserved to be trodden into the dirt.

Fuck you and your woes, you've got more spells on your gatorlocks than I have in my entire faction.

>>50829115
God, I fucking hope so

>>50826414
Hex & Chit games are a thing anon.

>>50825899

Am I missing something about the Hellmouth changes, because I'm not seeing anything other than soulless.

Glad to see Zuriel is doing better though. Still not sure if I'll ever field the Soldier or Afflictor though.

>>50826991
An old gaming store by me back in the early 2000s had a table with panels you could slide out to put trenches into it.

So, been thinking about getting into warmachine. How is the khador starter box?

>>50831074

The game is on its deathbed and if you have anyone to play with, cherish them for their fleeting existence

Khador box is pretty good

>>50831325
I'm moving to seattle, apparently they have a big scene for it.

>>50831325
I bet you play Infinity or Guildball, don't you?

>>50831074
Khador is pretty strong and so is their box, go for it my dude.

Speaking of scenes, anyone play in Tucson, and if so, how is the scene there?

Small chance I might take a job there.

>>50831580

Funny you mention that, I'm not that Anon...but I bought my first Infinity army after I read the errata today.

>Cryx player

Why are people acting like the ogrun bokur is such a good thing for skorne?

I would take cyclops brutes any time. They're fantastic.. A bokur can be one shot with a boost.

What's the Virginia scene like?

I ended up getting a job about 15 minutes away from Richmond.

>>50831909
I might be going Malifaux. Infinty looks cool but regardless of which army I pick there are one or two key models that are ten years old and look like they were sculpted by a chimp on PCP, which is entirely unacceptable in a game with only ten models on the field.

>>50831580
Cool, so what can you tell me, if anything, about playing khador?

Way less batreps on youtube.

>>50832203
Check out "WargamerGirl" on youtube, she only plays Khador and her videos have a high production value. Most of her stuff is mk2, but Khador hasn't changed a ton in how it's played I gather, except they run more jacks now. Khador stuff is slow, but has high armor and hp, and it tends to hit really hard both in melee and with often inaccurate ranged attacks with high blast damage.

>>50832242

Khador stuff is not slow.

Almost Every caster they has speeds up their jacks, and usually significantly so

>>50832203
Khador combine very frontline style casters with synergy focused infantry and very efficient, but low frill warjacks.

Their warcasters tend to take either a supporting or a very melee focused role, with generally very good defensive and often offensive statlines. Khador likely has the largest ratio of casters who are capable of doing a lot of work themselves, with the Butchers all great examples of this. Most casters who don't fit this role are very army focused in nature, doing a lot to help out their army to get work done. Because of their relatively low FOC stats compared to most factions combined with their lack of warcaster support, Khador casters generally have to play farther up, and while they have the statlines to back this up, casters dying is an automatic loss, so it's something to get used to.

Their infantry tends to feel pretty lackluster at initial glance, not really bad, just kind of there. But there's tons of infantry support in faction, taking their relatively ok statlines and turning them into monsters in the right situations.

Their warjacks are, on average, boasting pretty efficient statlines and good point costs, but tend to not have too many special abilities or utility, with some big exceptions. Khador's home to the Juggernaught, likely the most cost effective warjack in the entire game at this point. Again, they benefit from a lot of support from their casters, turning them into absolute monsters.

General weaknesses of the faction are a lack of real solid control elements and warcaster support. Khador wants to grind through everything, and can have real problems preventing the opponent from executing their own plans.

>>50832242
She's terrible at the game though.

>>50832318
Also, be careful, the edition change really uprooted Khador in terms of their playstyle. They got a lot better for it, but they changed up from a massively melee infantry focus to a gunline and warjack focus. Their melee infantry isn't really bad, per say, but it's not really rocking anyone's world in the current meta. Ignore this if you're just playing for the hell of it, but if you're trying to figure out what's good in Khador, ignore anything talking about Mk2.

>>50832332
Second this anon, gameplay in those videos is horrific.

Production quality is very high though.

>>50832305
Lets verify that.

Kozlov: A +2 speed feat
Sorscha1: Boundless charge
Sorscha2: Boundless charge
Karchev: Road to War
Zerkova1: Nothing
Zerkova2: Nothing
Irusk1: Superiority
Irusk2: Energizer
Harkevich: Mobility
Strakhov: Overrun, feat
Butcher1: Nothing
Butcher2: Boundless charge
Butcher3: Energizer
Old Witch: Nothing
Vlad1: Feat, boundless charge
Vlad2: Assail
Vlad3: Infernal machine

So yeah, most khador casters have some way of speeding up jacks. But for the vast majority of them it's a single target thing. 4 of them rely solely on single target spells which only work when charging, 2 more rely on single target upkeeps, and 3 are relying on feats. So while khador has ways to speed them up, in general it's in a very limited way. And their base speed is lower than most others.

>>50832545
>Old Witch: Nothing

She has Field Marshal: Apparition effectively gives her entire battlegroup +2 Movement.

>>50832617
Ah, that's right.

>>50832545
Stakhov also has superiority

>>50832545

You usually only want to be/have the opportunity to charge in one or two jacks at a time to initiate piece trades, so those 'one spell' casters are actually getting a lot of work done. Especially when you consider the additional bonuses like pathfinder from boundless charge.

Khador jacks are deceptively fast.

>>50832242
>>50832305
>>50832318
>>50832332
>>50832404
>>50832545
>>50832617
>>50832625
>>50832641
>>50832713
Thanks for the info my dudes. good shit, WGG seems to have good vids, but the play just seems awful (even to my newb eyes) and the way she narrates grates on me.

So, working on a non-Una2 Circle build, centered on the Woldwrath.

Currently thinking:

Put an ARM buff on the Woldwrath and put him out front. Cast his animus, and then hurl knockdown spells (either from Druids, Blackclads, or Stoneshapers, all of which benefit from the Woldwrath's animus).

Two Razorback Crews fling Brutal Damage POW 14 shots at any big knocked down stuff.

This as a base (Woldwrath + 3 Stoneshapers + 2 Blackclads + Druids/UA + 2 Razorbacks) leaves about 23 points; Sentry Stones are the obvious first choice, but the rest of the list packs a lot of boosted sprays already, and doesn't have a ton of armor cracking, so Ghetorix may be the top choice there. Depends on caster, at least.

Question is, which caster? Limiting to casters that can throw an ARM buff on the Woldwrath:

Baldur2 is the obvious choice, but kinda boring.
Baldur1 is... probably more interesting in this case, since he has the forest upkeep to tie in with the Druid clouds (and he can use it to cover druids that dropped their knockdown spell instead of a cloud) *and* Solid Ground goes a long way to keeping the Druids alive (in a cloud they get stealth, and Solid Ground makes them blast immune, so they're going to be pretty resilient to shooting)
Morvahna1 actually synergizes with the Woldwrath's animus, as she likes to cast a lot of spells, especially on feat turn, and can bring the druids back with Regrowth.
Kromac1 is interesting, as while this list may not cast Warpath as much as he'd normally like to, Bestial behind a druid wall is going to slow down a lot of casters and let him grind them down... and an Overtaking Ghetorix never hurts.

Thoughts?

I just picked up the two player starter for mk3. I would like to build a fun, competitive Cryx army. What units should I get if I want to run a good army that casts many spells each round? I prefer direct damage spells and would like the army to have a decent chance of winning if played well. Most players here about play 75 points. Thank you.

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>>50833411
I am playing mostly against Cryx and Asphyxious1 and Denegra1 seem like the best casters in the faction, though the Goreshades have place too. Terminus and the 3 Ladies with the floating ball are only for fun-games.

Satyxis Raiders are one of their best units imo, because they can buff themselves to DEF16+immunity to blasts for a turn, making them a pain in the arse to deal with for everyone who isn't cygnar and they also hit pretty hard.

Cryx has amazing Warjacks; They aren't very sturdy, but they all are a pain to hit cuz high DEF (especially with debuffs), are fast and do a lot of damage (especially with debuffs).

I don't share the notion that cryx is weak like most people think they are, they just have a really bad Cygnar matchup.

In fact, I think that Warmachine is currently similar to pokemon: If you pick Khador, you beat Cygnar (because they can out-attrition them with godly ARM and boxes), Cygnar beats cryx (because electro leaps don't care about no DEF skew) and Cryx beats Khador (making their lackluster speed even slower with debuffs).

>>50833411
Honestly, direct damage spells aren't usually that great. They put your caster in more danger and generally don't do any more damage that a gun, while costing more to use.

However, if you want to go that route, Asphyxious 1 and Goreshade 3 can pull off decent spell assassinations or just fling out the occasional spell. recommended army purchases would be the withershadow combine as well as a couple of the arc node light jacks.

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>>50833156
Hmm, Baldur1 also has a nice chunk of beast points...

>>50833589
>Coven
>for fun games only

what the h*ck

>>50833678
>>50833589
Can you suggest a list to run or some specific warjacks and solos?

How would you convert a siege crawler into a trollkin warwagon

>>50833589
The ball thing is the entire faction of cryx they carry on their back

>>50833767
Oh, they are apparently better than I thought. Sorry about that lol.

>>50833878
Not a cryx expert/player as I said, but check this out:
http://www.discountgamesinc.com/tournaments/tournaments/search/s:Cryx

tiny errata for ded gaem.

PP did nothing to fix the core problems. They decided to throw the baby out with the bathwater and just remove throws on friendlies too.

What's mk4 going to be like when they decide to remove the ability to cast buffs on friendly models because there was 1 or 2 overpowered buffs in the game??

>>50831909
I just went back to Fantasy. I forgot how nice hobbying was!

>>50831580

No I play whatever my store here switches to

>>50831378

That's better but even here it's drying up. The amount of bitter ex-PP staff at every store makes it kinda inevitable

>>50833589
>Cryx has amazing Warjacks
Now let's not overstate things here, some of our Lights are good and most of our Character heavies are playable, but Cryx doesn't hit it out of the park with our warjacks.

>>50832242
I prefer Advanced Manuvers. With her I never have a sense of where anything is because of her shooting style. Also she's not great at the game, but then again who is

>>50835048
I'm playing 30k and realizing how obnoxious it is to paint 20 man tacticals

>>50826319
I usually compromise, 2D terrain with 3D elements on top that can be removed.

>>50826838
So fun to play, build, and full of blacks?

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>>50835296
and with 20% more Pot of Greed

>>50826319
I use 2d terrain for shit like forests and rubble, but things you're not supposed to be able to occupy the same space as like obstacles and obstructions I use 3d terrain.

I have the point for either min Vengers or daughters.
Which would make the better flanking unit?

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Completely new to the game and just bought the Legion Battlegroup and am looking to slowly build up, but want to start working towards 25 points to start.

I've seen a lot of Steamroll posts on the WMH forums but people are going for aspergers on building to 75 points and having their list around the end game.

Would someone be able to provide some information about how to build a list? I've read that Sheperds and Deathstalkers and Spawning vessles are good, but that doesn't seem to hold out too much.
From what i've seen i'll be playing against Circle, Skorne and Cygnar with some Cryx and Khador thrown in.

>>50835066
Slayers are super solid. They're fast, hit like warbeasts and DEF 13 is actually super annoying. They're not that expensive either.

And having your stuff pulled into melee range of the entire cryx army by Reapers is really annoying.

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Newfag here.

Is there no PDF of Hordes Primal Mk1? None of the big torrents have it, and I can't find it on the interwebs.

>>50834836
Nothing that anybody has done with their own models has been done for legitimate reasons. It's always been questionably gamey mechanics.

>deliberately fail a charge against your own model so you can cheese out extra movement speed yet still cast spells
>kill a Mannikin with a Gobber Chef so you can spawn one on its activation in a better spot
>throw your own units at a high DEF model so you can knock it down and invalidate its statline

People legitimately bitching about high DEF models are likely the cunts who run high ARM models and find there's no problem with people bringing in an "armor drop" list, yet squeal like Khador piggies when they have their cheap abuse of game mechanics taken away from them and they're forced to take "dedicated anti-DEF models" in their netdecked tourney list.

>>50836065
This. For the same reason I appreciate pre-measuring.

Pre-measuring was always in the game, disguised as command range. So rather than having the players "cheat" their 7 inches and guessing the other 4 to the targets, you can just measure it out now.

>>50835701
At the most basic, building a list is about choosing a warlock, looking at what that warlock does and supports, and then picking warbeasts, units and solos that are supported or support that playstyle.

Steamroller is the competitive format, so there's a lot more specifics to that, and I wouldn't worry about it as much. For now, just decide on what warlock you enjoy(or what playstyle you want so you can pick a warlock) and work from there.

>>50835810
Slayers are super awesome until random POW12 guns shoot their arms off.

>>50836127
>that guy measuring his entire command range for his base to base melee models that have already activated that turn

>that guy who plays Harbinger with only one warjack yet needs to know the extent of his 20" control range every activation

>that guy literally doing pythagorean theorem to calculate distance between two models by using his warcaster's control range

Thank god for premeasuring.

>I've seen a lot of Steamroll posts on the WMH forums but people are going for aspergers on building to 75 points and having their list around the end game.

I'll go ahead and explain why that is:

75 is the standard list size for the average player these days. People tend to build towards the end game because Warmachine is a very "piece-trade"-oriented game, meaning you're probably going to lose half your force taking out half of your opponent's force, so your list needs to be able to hold up to the end game, and not be crippled or unable to contest if you lose certain key pieces.

A lot of players use steamroller scenarios in casual play because it adds an element of depth to the game, and makes attrition/control strategies and lists viable. Otherwise, it's essentially "build a list that assassinates the caster" or "build a list that annihilates the heavies", and there are only so many casters who are good at doing that. Not to mention, it's practice for competitive.

>Would someone be able to provide some information about how to build a list?

As you've probably seen, each faction has several subfactions within it. My main is Circle, and there's a lot of difference between playing a Warpwolf/Wolfsworn list, compared to a Construct list, compared to a Tharn-heavy list, compared to a Griffon list. Of course, each one would want to use a different warcaster/warlock depending on what you want to do. Though if you ask here, you just use the OP Tree and Una :^)

Do what >>50836199 says: find a warlock you like, and see how they work. Something like Absylonia, who runs and supports a lot of light/heavy warbeasts, will play differently from one of the spellslingers like Saeryn, who runs differently from someone like Thagrosh2 who is basically a giant warbeast himself who benefits from using lesser beast spam.

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I want a PDF of this file, can anyone please upload it?

I've tried the OP pastebin, I've tried combing shady torrent sites, but I am having no luck at finding a source for it. Help me out /tg/.

Is there a good sort of summary of how the january errata changes each faction? Like not just what was changed, but whether the change was a buff/nerf/irrelevant etc or how certain models are going to be good or shit now?

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>>50836304
>>50836199

Thanks for the information. I wasn't aware that Steamroller was a competitive format so I was a bit aggressive in my judgement.

Playstyle was I was looking for a bit of ranged thrown in with more light/heavy warbeasts than covering the board in units. Absylonia and Lylyth seem to be the Warlocks i'm leaning towards, Spellslingers aren't really my kinda thing. Pay in mind that I don't actually know what either of these warlocks do, other than what's in the Primal (Absyl isn't even in this).

If you're aware of a good resource for new Legion players to read through, I'd appreciate the info.

>>50836520
I am a new player but i looked through this website
http://battlecollege.org/index.php/Main_Page
Though the people i play with said to be wary of some of its advice or information, as its not 100% correct.

Still it should give you a starting point.

>>50836520
Ok, so there's multiple versions of some warcasters, which has to do with the storyline.

This matters because they're often very different. Lylyth, for example, has three versions, Prime, Epic, and Legendary(more commonly known as 3, ie, Lylyth3).

Lylyth3 is pretty easy to spot, because she's riding a giant chariot, but p and e might look the same to you at first glance.

So anyways, I'm not a Legion player, so I can make some basic discussion, but nothing ground breaking.

pLylyth - Straight up ranged caster, with most of her tools geared towards helping models that shoot. She's got very low Fury, but has tools(like Witch Mark) to help her deal with that. She wants to play either an attrition game or an assassination one, using her feat to either shoot key models off the table(putting Parasite on the hard targets to make this easier) or straight up using the fear to delete a warcaster with a ton of accurate shots.

eLylyth - She changed a lot in the edition change, so I might be a little wonky at judging her. But at a glance she's more of a combined arms caster, wanting beasts that boast both melee and ranged attacks. Her feat isn't as straightforward, but lets you get a lot of work out of her warbeasts, getting a full charge turn along with multiple ranged attacks in in one go.

Lylyth3 - She's not so obviously ranged focused as the other two, but she does still like it. I would not recommend her as a newbie choice due to her being a battle engine, which has a lot of extra baggage in both rules and issues on the table. She has a more control focus, lacking the damage boosts her other two boast in return for a pretty damn powerful feat and a very nice defensive spell, so long as your opponent doesn't have a counter for it.

>>50836569
Im not that guy but could you give me a general rundown on the difference between Denny1, 2 and 3? I noticed 3 is a giant fucking dragonrider but beyond that Im not sure if they are all still debuffers or what.

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>go to PP forums
>some legit questions and concerns
>overall sense is that the errata did good

>listen/read some WMH blogs/pods
>some legit questions and concerns
>overall opinion that the errata is a step in the right direction

>go to local game store to play post-errata
>most people are excited by it
>still an average number of players despite it being Christmas week
>nobody has announced they are quitting the game forever

>come back to 4chan's /tg/
>the errata is shit, the printing policy is shit, PP is shit
>quitting the game, selling my models, investing in Guildball

>>50836787
Welcome to 4chan, where everything shot your dog and OP is a faggot.

>>50836787
And now for observing this, you're a fan boy who has your head up your ass.

>>50836442
Theres literally a link in the pastebin mate.

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>>50837334
There's literally not.

>>50837361
Huh, you're right my bad.
Only thing I found is this:
https://www.scribd.com/document/273230076/Hordes-Primal-Rulebook

>>50828811
Tippy toe the motherfuckers in that AoD.
>>50831971
>Fuck Skorne, signed William Pastramiham
>>50832132
Malifaux is solid, The Other Side will be their army variant so 2017 is looking good.
>>50833589
Cryx is Bulbasaur, nobody thakes him.
>>50837361
Are you a pirate?

>>50837593
Thanks, thankfully they have a free trial to download.

>>50837595
I'm interested in reading the fluff, and looking at how stats were in Mark I. Given that the book is out of print and hard to find (and probably overpriced), I don't really have any qualms about stealing it.

Shit, if PP wants to make some money, just copy and paste all the lore stories into a big book and sell that. I'd buy it.

>>50825477
>inb4 they fuck up Skorne again

>>50837805
>All 89 are nerfs
>"We recognise the strength of Rasheth and apologise. I only hope these nerfs will bring balance to the competitive scene. " - PP, obituary

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>>50836065

You're an idiot

>deliberately fail a charge against your own model so you can cheese out extra movement speed yet still cast spells

You can still do this against enemy models. It's usually what people do actually, as you typically find it easier to charge a large based enemy across the table while unpacking rather than making sure one of your models is both out of charge range yet lined up well. This tells me you theory games more than play.

>kill a Mannikin with a Gobber Chef so you can spawn one on its activation in a better spot

This has nothing to do with power attacks and everything to do with how the Sentry Stones spawning worked (It was activation which has historically always been a mistake, see Hellmouth)

>throw your own units at a high DEF model so you can knock it down and invalidate its statline

Again, theory hammer here I can tell you didn't actually do this. You didn't actually do this because in Mk 3 you didn't throw your fucking model at an enemy model, as that would not negate their defense (Although it would negate most typical 'bonuses' to defense).

You ran then threw your model directly away, after you premeasured what exactly away would need to be.

This is why it's such a big deal in Mk 3 sperglord: Throws no longer scatter. That's the main change from Mk 2 to Mk 3 (There are other nuanced changes like 1-2 hand throwing going away, etc.).....but the main issue is lack of scatter.

Why they went full autistic mode and banned power attacks, including slams,etc. I have no idea. It's not intuitive to newer players and it makes the game less enjoyable for not that big of a reward.

What they wanted to do was fix the flying snake. What they chose to do is dumb down the game,take away some come back factor and probably confuse newer players.

It was shitty and you're an idiot for making fun of people not liking the ruling.

>>50837921
Everybody knows what he is talking about.
>It was shitty and you're an idiot for making fun of people not liking the ruling.
t. buttmad khadorian

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>>50837995

Enjoy your 9 MadDogs Ivan.

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>>50836234
Yeah, but that's kind of the appeal of Cryx jacks. They rip things apart, but die easily.

>>50838222
In practical terms that sentence can be parsed as "They [...] die easily". All the offensive power in the world is meaningless if your arms fly off whenever someone with a handcannon looks at you sideways.

>>50837921
>Why they went full autistic mode and banned power attacks, including slams,etc. I have no idea. It's not intuitive to newer players and it makes the game less enjoyable for not that big of a reward.

They literally said why:
>With this change, we no longer need to address these situations on a case-by-case basis or tone down individual models that are abusing throws or slams. It allows us to balance more around standard game play than fringe power attack abuses.

Which is what was happening.

>What they wanted to do was fix the flying snake.
No, they wanted to fix what they stated above. Didn't you bother to read the developer notes, or are you just theorycrafting reasoning based on the errata document only? :^)

>>50838269
Glass cannons are awesome, especially if they're cheap.

If your piece takes out one of theirs and dies in return, you have traded up. Do that enough times and you're the winner, simply because your opponent ran out of pieces to play with.

>>50838324
You're making the amazingly stupid assumption that your opponent is just going to play rockem sockem robots with you, when in reality a swarm of Cryx jacks just get shot to ribbons on the approach.

What are ways to play around a list that carries a lot of E-Leaps backed up by Nemo3?
This is for casual play, so I'm not looking for specific models but rather how to play. I guess low infantry, loads of jacks and since I'm playing Protectorate to keep my vassals at home and to always use the choir first, then move the jacks away

>>50838354
"Oh no, the debuffed RAT 3 shooters are going to murder my DEF 15 Jacks"

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>>50838321

>Quoting the developer notes

Mk 2 somehow survived I guess while power attacks just ruined the game. Oh wait, they didn't. Wonder what changed in Mk 3? I wonder why if Power Attacks were so abused in Mk 2..why wasn't it addressed when they made Mk 3? Or maybe (Maybe!) they can't think things through anymore and had no idea what would happen when they made throws not scatter. Maybe, they're just groping around in the dark and rationalizing why they changed things after they had to? Maybe...

Oh yeah, developer notes:

>Protectorate of Menoth

>We believe the Protectorate of Menoth is in a good place right now, so there are no balance changes in the errata. This Faction has some very strong options that allow a wide variety of lists and play styles.

Fucking. Hilarious.

>>50838433
Tough shit buddy, you'll have to learn to actually play against high DEF models now. :^)

>>50825232
Tin foil hat story:

The (lead) developer of PP who left was the one who leaked the decks trough several sources because the intention was to playtest this edition with the community anyway and release Mk 3 in 2017.

>>50838394
double Stormlances and Laddermore (a solo).

>>50838535
>because the intention was to playtest this edition with the community anyway and release Mk 3 in 2017.

It's what they're doing now anyways. They've just dressed up what they're calling it, but if anyone thought that you weren't forced into beta-testing MKIII until Summer 2017, they're delusional.

>>50838516
>Tough shit buddy, you'll have to learn to actually play against high DEF models now. :^)

Literally autistic and not an argument.

>>50838564
Luckily he does not have that, because he at least understands that part of "casual"

>>50838609
Oh so casual means purposefully gimping yourself so you can come to /tg/ later and bitch about how you can't win at anything?

ok

>>50838590
>literally autistic
>from the guy trying to defend his "its not throwing AT you, it's throwing exactly DIRECTLY AWAY and you were in the way"
>the literally "i'm swinging my arms its your fault if you get hit" excuse

There doesn't need to be an argument. The rules are you're fucked, and nothing you say or cry about will do anything about it. It's not meant to be an argument. It's fact. Learn to play, scrublord. :^)

And go back to le_the_donald with your "not an argument" pasta retort

>>50828463
They're basically just making the system the way it should have been all along. They just copied the best ideas from the dev teams of Malifaux, Kings of War, and Spartan basically. So:
(a) public open beta tests for new / changed rules, going forward
(b) all rules and cards available as free online living documents
(c) paid-for options to use an app or get printed cards, if you want that
(d) and as a bonus, they don't make you jump through any hoops if you want to print the cards yourself, or at a local copy shop.

The Insider was much more significant than the errata. Errata contents were kinda meh. But them totally overhauling their rules development and distribution systems is a game changer.

>>50838650
>It's fact. Learn to play, scrublord. :^)

>Still not an argument
>Still autistic

>>50838705
>the stefan junior philosopher still can't grasp that not everything is life isn't an argument
You know what else is not an argument? The fact you can't throw your cheapos at--excuse me, directly away from exactly the distance to--my caster anymore. :^)

I can't believe someone in here defends the pre-errata throw shenanigans while calling others autistic lol.

>>50838394
Play jack-heavy, and put your jacks close together (so the e-leaps jump to another jack, not more vulnerable infantry behind them). Even if he's generating most of his e-leaps from ranged, you probably want Shielding instead of Passage up most of the time (depending on the other guy's army composition!) because Nemo3 packs Force Hammer which is probably going to screw you over more than the shooting.

Prioritize killing his arc nodes, and run Sunbursts to punish Nemo for getting close enough to cast after you kill his arc nodes. Sunbursts even kill dug in Trenchers fairly well because while they don't suffer blast damage it still sets them on fire.

The real trick is to take advantage of how e-leap works (closest model) so you can have it jump to a jack instead of your infantry or support, and know when to pick Shielding over Passage because Force Hammer is a hell of a spell.

>>50838433
You don't think Protectorate is in a good place right now?

I still think HR is overpowered, but the power attack change drastically reduces his assassination range.

>>50838787
I don't even get what all the hubbub with HR is either. Tourney reports for Protectorate aren't as lopsided as some other things (like Wurmwood).

>the power attack change drastically reduces his assassination range
Nonsense! How dare Privateer Press take small steps to see how changes play out instead of blanket nerf/buffing everything!

>>50838774
Huh, didn't even consider Force Hammer, but my buddy is pretty bad, so maybe I can get away with Passage most of the time.

How bad is Feora2 into him? I know she is bad, but how bad is she here? Any specific things that might screw me?

Protectorate needed to adress some shit units, like Bastions, but every factions has shit units (even Khador. Ever seen Kossites or manhunters on the table?) and that's more of an overall problem, not an errata problem.

>>50838801
>implying shutting down all power attacks targeting friendly models is a "small step" and not a blanket change
fucking what?

>>50838801
A 'small step' would have been making throws deviate.

>>50838394
Spacing. Don't put key pieces where they're in peril. 4" are a lot, but note how E-Leap chooses the closest target and plan around that.

With smart spacing you can pretty much choose what is being arced to.

>>50838848
We get it dude, you're butthurt. Did they shut down the salt mine on the PP forum or what?

>>50838858
A "small" change is one change, and seeing how it plays out. Nerfing power attacks and then tossing in changes to HR on top of that is a large change. Is it significant? Yes. But it's still only one thing.

>>50838841
I don't think any faction has *more* playable choices than Protectorate right now. Ret and CoC may have fewer bad choices, but from smaller model pools to choose from.

So don't hold your breath for the big three (Deliverers/Bastions/Cinerators) to get buffed because PoM needs so little help compared to everyone else.

>>50838838
If he's truly bad then you're just rude for trying to hose him from the start. You should focus on bringing him up to your level. Playing on even ground is more fun for everyone.

>>50838838
Force Hammer is one of the best spells in the game and just got better in the errata because a lot of the stuff it competes against (lining up your own models to execute knockdowns) got removed.

You're probably a dick if you don't tell your friend this now that you know it But go ahead and be a dick.

>Feora2

What casters do you have? Feora2 is one of the worst in Protectorate, even though she's not that bad, Protectorate just has a *lot* of A- and up casters.

>>50838886
>So don't hold your breath for the big three (Deliverers/Bastions/Cinerators) to get buffed because PoM needs so little help compared to everyone else.
Don't hold your breath for anything now, PPS_Will posted this:
"However, when and if we are ready to do another balance errata, you all will have the opportunity to test and provide feedback on it under our new Community Integrated Development. So you'll never have to wonder or worry about what may or may not be happening with the game or your models again."
I guess if you get enough people to spam "BUFF HEAVY EXEMPLARS" they might listen.

>>50838841
>Ever seen Kossites or manhunters on the table?
Yes to both actually. Min Kossites are cute and take off support if they are too close to the edge, Manhunters with Yuri are quite scary if you can't ignore stealth because they hit really hard.

Can someone explain to me two things about the errata?
First did the gang change actually change anything or is it just wording?
Secondly do you think revenants are competitive with satyxis raiders after the point cost lowering?

>>50838752
>Still not an argument
>Still autistic

>>50838959
>needs to keep posting the same thing over and over
>calls other autistic

Not going to lie, going to rant for a moment.

Man, it can be a good game with close friends but at cons against strangers it's just fucking awful. I can't stand 90% of the Warmahordes community anymore, it's just fucking awful.

I'm a popular podcaster and major con goer that many of you would probably recognize. I can't take this community anymore, you guys can't have a reasoned debate. All of these threads turn into shitfests, just like most of the online community anymore.

Know that many of the podcast members you listen to, make jokes about 'the community' when we're not talking Warmachine on the cast. You guys are fucking awful.

>>50838801
The hubub is/was that with two throws, HR had a 40" range (5.5" throw, 5.5" throw, sac action due to being thrown, walk 6", control 10", charge 13") with Hand of Fated Vengers, and could go farther with shooting (43" with Idrians, 45" with Cleansers).

Beyond the 45" with Cleansers (which allows you to spray the other guy's *board edge* on the top of 1; hope you didn't rely on your support or small-based infantry), the 27" place range means you can easily place stuff behind the other guy's front line for easy assassination. 34" range on Cleansers is still crazy, but going down to 16" placement to 27" placement is a huge reduction in threat.

>>50839014
You don't sound like any of the big players I actually know - yes, some of them make fun at the community at times but most of the time they really like them and say how much better it is than the Magic/40k/other nerd communities they have been a part of.

>>50838885

I was the OP about this argument. Those aren't my posts.

You know what? You want another opinion? Go to the MOM podcast feed, listen to the latest Podcast by the Swedish team with Tom Guan. Listen to them go over this errata.

Of course, they don't know anything do they? Playing and competing at the WTC, winning events? They're just sperg lords right?

What have you accomplished in the game competitively so we can judge how worthwhile your advice is?

>>50839035

Who are you?

Saying it's better then the Magic community...really doesn't mean anything.

Compare the community to Infinty, Guildball, X-Wing or Malifaux. Then reflect.

>>50839026
Yet despite this, he still wasn't overly-represented to the extent casters like Wurmwood and soon-to-be Una2 are with Circle. It's a neat gimmick and all (or was), but I don't get why people are screaming for more nerfs when the gimmick was gutted.

>>50839060
I am a friend with a bunch of the midwest players but I am no one big (unlike you apparently). I never place first at anything so I am not a known guy - just a friend of a bunch of known guys.

>>50839014
Yesterday we had people roleplaying PP employees, now we have someone roleplaying a "super famous podcaster"?

Post your podcast or shut the fuck up.

>>50839014
Yes, the guys on my popular podcast complain about the dickbags that make up most of the internet community, but rarely have problems at tournaments, as we see a lot less dickbaggery in person than online.

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Guys I'm actually Will "DC" Pastrami and not only am I a PP employee, I'm also a tournament champion AND popular podcaster on official podcasts!

This community is literally toxic autistic cancerous garbage.

>>50839085
Cool. Not the guy you're replying to, but we probably know each other rl.

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>>50839118

I laughed.

This community sucks, I'm out.

>>50839014
The thing that kept me in the game through the past few months was the exceptionally good community. But these threads are full of rage and always will be. If you can't stand it anymore, close this website. It's the only way to preserve your sanity and enjoyment of the game.

>>50839085

What's your name?

>>50839121
Maybe
>>50839163
>posting my name on a Chinese image board
ha

>>50839073
I'm not entirely sure why his representation was low. I still think he's a S-tier caster, just not broken like he was.

And the cries for nerfs will just increase. HR and Amon are both, I think, top 5 casters now, limited only by neither being particularly good into Una2. Bitching about Protectorate in general is coming.

Is it just me or does Bane Witch Agathia look fucking boring as all hell?

>>50838401
What debuffs rat or even mat other than Withering?

>>50839182
>posting my name on a Chinese image board

Spotted the newfag

>>50839377
Agathia is Cryx's cerebral assassin.

>>50839182
>>50839527
>posting my name on a Chinese image board
>yet I have no problem posting it on the PP salt mines and showing my face at tournaments in public

The mental gymnastics people come up with are astounding. The reason you don't post your name is that you're roleplaying. Also I thought you were checking out of this community? :^)

>>50839719
I am le hacker known as Anonymous

am I expected?

I might forgiv

>>50839605
So im meant to roofie my opponents girlfriend then get married to them at a drive-thru chapel in vegas?

>>50839719
I don't know why it's all that surprising that someone here might be someone known in the community, dislikes part of the community, but simultaneously would like to vent without being "outed".

I mean, the community isn't *that* large, the known people (almost) all have day jobs, and they all come out to their local game shop like the rest of us.

A few weeks ago at the local shop I saw the chief Infernal, organizer of the largest American tournament, at least one guy from the Muse on Minis podcast crew, conflictanon, and half the Crippled System podcast crew sitting around playing and joking about people on the internet.

>>50839085 and >>50839121 may have been there, too.

>>50839909
>guys I have the big boy WM/H rockstar meta, do you like me yet?

>>50839909
Yeah well I have seen the chief of Privateer Press telling people to fuck off and buy more Storm Raptors for Circle Christmas.

On a more serious note, if the midwest is so popular, why are there so many guildball faggots screaming the game is dead in this thread? Hell, I'm up in the pacific northwest where it's more lively than 40k, but the way you describe it out there tells me that, big surprise, 4chan is full of shit.

>>50839719
I am not the guy claiming to be a known podcaster, I am the guy that claims to know a bunch of the known people with no actual renown. Posting my own name not only means nothing to you guys, it's also not something I do on the internet.
>>50839909
Nope, I was not there, I am not going to be in any close proximity to Warmachine players until after the new year because I am too busy until then.

>>50839958
None of these people are rockstars. They're normal dudes, and while many of them privately like to call internet people dickbags, no one really wants to do so publically, so it shouldn't be surprising to anyone familiar with this board that identifiable people in the community show up here, tease that people would know them if they revealed their identity, and call people dickbags anonymously.

The whole thing about "you're just role-playing" is absurd as you're elevating these normal dudes to rockstar level by implying someone would *want* to roleplay as them (if you're even the person who posted that, if not, sorry).

>>50839967
While I've seen several guildball models painted by locals on facebook, I've yet to see one in person. If people start playing it here, I'll probably buy in to the game, but WMH is still the big game around here.

4chan is mostly full of shit. We've lost two of our ultra-competitive players, but gained more than that, and we had 5 or 6 games going this past week, which is low for us but it was 4 days before Christmas, so I'm pretty sure "holiday lull" is a better explanation than "ded game".

>>50835810
I think the inflictor is much better

>>50840150
Also, we're midwesterners. There's truth to the stereotype of midwestern politeness; calling someone a dickbag publicly is gauche.

>>50840150
obligatory >spotted the PP employee post

The midwest is where I learned to play the game, and dumped 40k for it back in 2007. The fact that I ended up in the pacific northwest where it is huge is just a blessing.

>>50837805

I actually like playing and collecting skorne. Their uninspired back-and-forth predictable gameplay fit me like a glove and I liked the fluff (there are players like that out there, and we need factions that reward our sensibilities just as much as anyone else willing to drop a grand on toy soldiers), and that was mk2. Mk3 was the same except suddenly it was like driving on the same familiar road but without power steering. I actually *don't want* a faction transformation, I just want some synergies.

>>50838956
If a model was knocked down you couldnt charge it or get the bonus from gang, thats why they changed it.

Probably not. Its still banes and satyxis world.

>>50826188
>haley1 was barely touched

Temporal barrier no longer stops running or charging, and it doesnt lower defense either, it just lowers SPD by 2. It's also now tiny, as it uses her command and not her control range.

>haley 2 is almost untouched
She lost Deflection, and Time Bomb now only affects models that are directly hit.

You're a fucking moron.

I haven't been in these threads in a while.

A bit after Mk3 I stopped playing since the people I played with kinda went in an arms race for how much ranged you can cram in a list. It turmped all combined arms lists and melee focused lists since they could get 2-3 rounds of shooting before anyone could even come into contact with them.

Has anything changed that would make combined arms work better or is ranged still the best option? And will anything change?

>>50831971

While mk3 has established the Toxic Skorne Hate-Player community, it has also established the Throw-anything-you-come-across-against-the-wall-and-see-if-it-sticks-and-failing-that-bounces-and-beans-the-bastard-across-the-table-in-the-back-of-the-head-the-goddamn-focus-using-munchkin-deserves-it Skorne community.

They are basically the only two subgroups that stuck it out.

>watch out for your local Skorne player- he either really hates himself or really hates you

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>>50839855

>>50840584
Some of the gunliniest gunlines got nerfed. The meta is learning how better to take care of them. Protectorate shits all over gunlines.

I see a lot of combined arms and play in a pretty competitive meta.

Combined arms lists usually require some specific anti-gunline tech, though.

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>>50840584
One of the posters in the PP forums had a good post, in that most people who complain about gunlines probably aren't playing on a correct table.

Terrain should not by symmetrical (else, why would first/second or sides matter?) and not scattered around the edges. You need to work with your opponent so that there aren't just shooting galleries and wide-open firing lines everywhere. You need more LOS blocking terrain instead of cover (which just makes gunlines worse).

My meta is prone to scattering shit around the edges and leaving objectives wide open, which only benefits gun lists. PP won't do anything about gunlines, And why should they, when people play on pic related?

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>>50841575
His idea of a good map, for reference.

Post here: http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?264082-A-guide-for-good-terrain-setup

>>50841575
That table has 8 pieces of terrain, which is recommended. It's a little too symmetrical, but a fair amount of the terrain is placed in relevant areas.

What's wrong with it?

>>50841611
same anon here -- also the mat is hideous and bad

>>50841611
I'll just post his analysis, which I agree with:
>Sloan has basically zero targeting restrictions. The table is a shooting-gallery for her. With how strong and efficient guns are in MK3, we can't afford to let this be how we set up our tables, or we're forced into hard-counters to guns like Wurmwood.

>the way the game is currently set up, using 50% Forests / Obstructions and putting them towards the center is how the game plays best.

>>50841611
>It's a little too symmetrical

Yeah, I harp on people for setting up symmetrical tables all the time. There should always be a better side, and from my experience Mk3 has just made this more important.

But yes, there's not enough LoS blocking on that board.

>>50841696
Lately we've been running with 2 walls/2 buildings/2 forests plus a couple on most boards and it makes the games interesting. You need a good balance of cover-granting and LoS-blocking terrain to make it worthwhile. Water and hills are mostly useless; water because it basically only slows down melee, and hills because they make gunlines even better at sniping the important stuff out.

>>50841931
Can you still throw/knockdown warjacks in water and short-circuit them, or was that errata'd out for being unfair to Warmachines?

>>50841696
there's a forest literally in the middle of the table

>>50841967
Not longer a rule in mk3

>>50842007
>there's a forest literally in the middle of the table
Not literally in the middle. The water is. The point about forests is that forests should be able to provide blocks to LOS. Not only do they not block LOS for his opponent, he's going to stick his rifles in there and use to to bolster his firing against his opponent. They will never be relevant for his opponent.

>>50842219
>complete pedant
It's centered laterally and in the middle enough to hide LOS to some relevant models.

If you wan't to be that pedantic, how is there "basically zero targeting restrictions"?

>>50842066
I see they also removed Deep Water. RIP.

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>>50842235
>It's centered laterally and in the middle enough to hide LOS to some relevant models.
Go ahead and indicate which of the enemy models will be hidden due to LOS on Turn 2. I will wait for your answer.

None of the Cygnar models will have their LOS blocked by that forest when the opponent comes into range.

>If you wan't to be that pedantic, how is there "basically zero targeting restrictions"?
Because there are basically zero targeting restrictions. There are two small rocks no bigger than the size of a medium or large base, one on the far right side of the map and the other at about where his opponent will have ran after turn 1.

Remember, this is an objective game. If you still cannot visualize how this game will play out against the Sloan list, you're a certified moron.

>>50842331
I'm retarded, I assumed the Stormwall was the Cygnar player, not Khador.

You are correct

>>50831644
Weirdly yes, the scene is pretty active with a large competitive community a short drive away for large tournaments

>>50840309

It still lowers defense, that part didn't get changed. The errata is a sentence replacement, not the entire text of the spell.

>>50842577
Cool, thanks

>>50839719
>>posting my name on a Chinese image board

>Still talking about a Chinese image board on 4chan
>Still ignorant of his own ignorance

Christmas break huh kiddo?

>>50839909

Yeah, pretty much this. Most of the big names make fun of 4chan, Facebook group posters and the PP board. They think most of the community are fucktards except close friends. I've seen and heard this.

Hell, Jay openly makes fun of Facebook groups and PP forums, why this is a sperglord surprise I'm not sure.

It's a fairly toxic community, except for a handful of older guys.

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Bump

Painting a pair of Kodiaks.

>>50844568
Painting Trenchers myself. Storm Lances back on the painting table, though, as they avoided the nerf bat.

>>50844568
I'm getting someone else to paint my stuff. Does that count?

>>50845139
Close enough.

>>50839014
>All of these threads turn into shitfests
Hi, welcome to 4chan, he's your newcomer's guide and complimentary shit sandwich.

>>50845157
I think of it like the girlfriend/hooker argument.

At the end of the day, you're paying money for an end result.

>>50844568
>blowtorch not used
>flame at full

>>50844568
>Painting a pair of Kodiaks
Could you NOT???

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>>50845253
What's wrong with Kodiaks? They weren't even top 5%.

:^)

>>50845277
Neither were Storm Lances ;^)

>>50845182
In Khador, they figure that anyone stupid enough to be unsafe deserves the terrible injuries.

And the more fuel they burn, the more reason they will have to invade other countries.

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>>50845398
We prefer "liberating". Khador would never touch ground that doesn't rightfully belong to her.

>>50842770
What do you expect from a community composed predominantly of white suburban nerds? Nothing but big egos and unwarranted sense of self worth.

>>50846091
isn't that the majority of English speaking websites?

>>50846920
I spoke English on a website once. It was pretty cool.

Currently checking my privilege. I'll let you know what I find.

>>50845505
Malakov would've been so much cooler of the model followed the art.

>>50839967

There's blood in the water and the guild ball players are trying to snap up everyone who's not satisfied with the errata.

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>>50844568
I just started to cry, because I have a huge headache and sore eyes from starring at my miniatures under a fucking daylight-lamp.

"Why does my fucking face hurt so much?"

Then I look at the clock and realize how I spent 7 straight hours painting.

>Fuck.

<- my work for the day

>>50839967
Because your paranoid and think that everyone who isn't satisfied with mk3 is a shill.

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<- Work for later, has to be done on Tuesday

Hey WMH General, I was curious since I stopped playing about a year or so ago and was looking to get back into playing, what all had changed with the new update if you could summarize? I play Mercenaries exclusively if that helps. Anything big for them? Did they make the aquatic merc warjacks not so sucky?

>>50849042
I only play dwarves (and only Ossrum) and this change is kinda annoying considering I've been painting up 2 units of high shields and a unit of forge guard.

Tactician (Rhulic) - While in this model's CMD range, friendly Rhulics can see and move through each other freely.

Tactician [Rhulic]. Replace the first sentence of Tactician [Rhulic] with
the following:
While in this model’s command range, friendly Rhulic models can
ignore other friendly Rhulic models when determining LOS.

>>50848683

Thankfully I'm able to play WMH, Malifaux, guild ball, and Blood Bowl b.c I don't have to fund and paint a 40k army :^)

>>50849182
You mean you're like 90% of the tabletop gaming community?

>>50849301
Yeah, which is why the dudes coming in saying Play Guild Ball are retarded because I'm sure there is a ton of overlap in players already

>>50849546
I guess that console war mentality can apply to everything. I see a lot of parallels with it, where if a company isn't catering to someone's exact autistic needs, then its a sinking ship.

>>50848768
Why is it that literally every warmachine army I see is painted exactly like on the box?

>>50849892
Because it works?

Color schemes are very sensible for most armies barring Ret.

>>50849918
yeah, but doesn't it get boring having no variation in your painting?

>>50849937
Who cares long as it looks sensible/good?

I would rather have a mediocre cohesive army rather than a creative eye bleeder.

>>50849937
I've noticed people only really deviate when painting minons/mercs.

Like, it would be werid seeing a blue khador, becuase cygnar is already color coded to be blue.

I've see people with green or red trollbloods but I think it looks weird. The only thing I did was a custom tartan design

>>50849892
I personally just like red. Everything I ever owned was red; My first lizardmen, my space marines, my orcs, chaos space marines, my third space marines, my imperial guard and my chaos warriors.

If I was playing Cryx, I would probably paint them like the Iron Warriors from 40k.

>>50850007
>I personally just like red. Everything I ever owned was red
Your probably ovulating

>>50849965
I mean.... I have seen plenty of creative things that look good. I'm just amazed all the khador guys stick to red and so on. Like, this is the only community I see it in. 40K guys get super wacko with their models, as do infinity and malifaux players. But most warmahordes stuff just follows what's on the box.

>>50850043
Khador players are in it for the Russian motif. Many of them are casuals for that reason. If anyone does good painting that's deviating from the studio scheme, it's mostly based around WWII tank camos and such.

Cygnar players deviate bit more but will stick to cool palettes because electricity coils look good in blue glow.

Menoth is usually black or white variant with occasional dark red.

Cryx scheme deviation is either all ghostly army which is just a lazy drybrush or corrosion heavy metal.

Menoth in Black Templars scheme probably looks fucking amazing.

>>50850222
I bet Space Wolf color scheme would look good on Khador.

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>>50850238
I can see it. Not a fan of the yellow personally and I always preferred the pre-heresy grey over the blue-ish version.

>>50850087

I think I've seen all of three Skorne color schemes, ever. But everyone does their construct models differently- that is some weird shit.

>>50850304
Rocks are pretty, Skorne isn't.

Circle gets the most variety of basing from what I can tell.

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>>50850043
Guy who made the pics here.

My joining into Warmachine, was filled with sadness, because it actually started with me buying into Warhammer Fantasy after years of absence, along with a friend. The end times was in full swing and I dropped around 400$ on Chaos Warriors and made the cool character you see in the pic (I was so fucking proud of that guy). My army looked amazing.

A few months later, Age of Sigmar came out and I couldn't fucking believe what was happening. I felt betrayed, angry and sad.

So after a few more months, I saw this box Widowmaker Scouts while I was playing Magic the Gathering at my game store. I bought them, simply because I wanted something to paint after a few months of not being able to.

The store clerk spoke to me and asked if I was playing, introducing me to the wednesday tabletop nights at the shot and the Warmhordes game and (local) community.

Because I can't let go, I painted my Khador exactly how I painted my Chaos Warriors. This color scheme and base design will be forever with me, even if the companies I play for change.

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>>50850410
backside

>>50850417
>>50850410
Yo australia!

Sadly Warmahordes has all but died at my local store since mk3, what went wrong with this edition apart from the delays and things like WR2, new cards to buy, meta changing, etc.? Is there anything that has truly broken the balance?

>>50849546

Sure theres a ton of overlap, but WMH is obviously much bigger than guild ball is. Its not like every warmachine player already plays guildball.

>>50849606
ded game

>>50838886
Are deliverers, bastions, and cinerators truely the worst choices in menoth? Are there no attachements, jacks, or solos that are poorer choices than any of those three?

What are the worst three model entries per faction? Is it an obvious group consensus throughout the factions?

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>tfw you actually like painting the studio schemes

I am unoriginal, but I like red.

>>50850805
For we are redy for battle, fellow Kommander.

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Does anyone have any pictures demonstrating the size of this thing? Seriously considering getting one for some conversion.

>>50850584
Conscripts no longer flee from abominable monstrosities, giant robots evaporate the moment they shut down, water no longer extinguishes furnances, kaiju cant wrestle with mechas, your allies are protected by a magic bubble in case you wanted to use them as an improvised weapon (backstabbing/going death by firing squad on them is fair play though). Game is no longer fun. That is all I can think of right now but I will let you know if I recall something.

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>>50850946
My whole army is ready, comrade.

>>50849301
Which is funny, becaus in PPs backyard, Malifaux, Infinity, and X wing havemore nights than 40k right now

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>>50849918
>>50850087
I did my Circle up with silver/blue originally, and made most of them dark-furred. Note, I did these about 5-6 years ago, and my painting skills are atrocious.

I've commissioned a new batch of circle being done in similar colors, and I'm really pleased at how they're turning out. I just don't like the default green/gold.

>>50851215
Is that the comission job, or your own handiwork?

Because I wouldn't feel right giving somebody a paintjob like that for money,

>>50851247
Those are mine, I said so. The commissions are significantly better, and I can't wait until I'm able to post some pictures.

As for mine, I have gotten great compliments on them like "it's better than unpainted" and "those are good for a first timer". :^) They honestly look better from a distance on the table. Instead of up close at 4K resolution.

>>50850794

Worst 3 models in minions:

Bull Snapper
Bone Swarm

That's it there's nothing else that's bad

>>50851297
Never said that paintjob was terrible. Just that it's not one I'd be happy either spending money on, or getting money for.

By all means anon, enjoy your paintjob. I've seen MUCH worse in my time playing WM/H.

>>50851323
I hear lots of complaining on how things work together poorly, though. I keep thinking about expanding my Gatormen into something more complete but then people bitch about it being shitty and incomplete.

>>50851346
I will certainly enjoy the commission much more. Mine look like dogshit.

>>50851323
Tbh senpai the Bull Snapper can actually be very good. With Rask, a Wrassler, and Primal from a Boar, it goes up to MAT8 PS20 with 3 attacks. 5 points for a model that you can fire and forget at an 11/18 Legion heavy for ~27 damage is no laughing matter.

>>50851323
I think the posse is worth mentioning for underperforming.

>>50851990
If by "underperforming" you mean "not far and away the best heavy infantry in the game anymore", then sure.

>>50851998
No. He means being unable to crack armor, hit high def or remove infantry while being one rounded by point equivalent or less. And geting shot off the board.

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>>50849892
'Scuse me?

>>50852256
>unable to crack armor
Two PS13 attacks in a faction full of damage buffs?
>hit high def
Reroll against living models?
>remove infantry
You and every other fucking faction.
>while being one rounded by point equivalent or less
Nigger I play Skorne I don't need to hear this shit.
>geting shot off the board
Welcome to Cygnarmachine.

>>50851998
It went from being the main infantry used by gators to being not taken in most lists. Like most heavy infantry.

Sure they were the best in mk2. This isn't mk2 though. Gators are best off taking farrow if they want to take infantry now. Do you see any problems with that?

>>50852361
>It went from being the main infantry used by every Hordes faction
Fixed that for you.

>>50852357
Just because you play Skorne does not mean other factions don't have stinker models too.

>>50852364
>it used to be good so it should suck now

>>50852378
It was easily in the top 5% in Mk2 so by PP's nerf/buff criteria is was deserving of SOMETHING. They're still obnoxious cunts to deal with so it's not like you're throwing your points away. RNG2 infantry is always going to have a use.

>>50852378
Didn't their point cost come down a little bit?

Not that it helps much... As a Skorne player, since I can't put upkeep spells on Minion units anymore, I don't run them, farrow or otherwise.

>>50852361
With so many heavy dudes down to 5 wounds and often around the same cost as Cavalry, it really feels like they lost their place.
What could make them viable choices again?
Moving down their points to around 2 per Model? Would they then clash too much with single wound 6 man squads?
Giving all of them 8 wounds and super heavy dudes like MoW 10?
Or do they need to be addressed on a case by case basis?

>>50852387
I've considered Slaughthousers just because 1) the Taskmaster can give them +2STR, 2) some warlocks like Rasheth and Xekaar can pseudo buff them with enemy debuffs, and 3) we have some great ways to chip an enemy from range like the Cannoneer or a Void Spirit. Take 6 boxes off a Legion heavy, put Mortality on it, and the Slaughterhousers charge in at MAT11, PS15+4d6. Even a min unit can be a big threat.

>>50852405
I've thought about them, but I really don't like the 3 point attachment for a six man unit with victim stats from hell, which my Aura doesn't even help anymore.

I've considered Brigands for the reasons you listed, but I don't own them yet.

>>50852403
Thank god Skinwalkers are still 8. Circle Christmas all year long awooooooo.

>>50852403
Heavy infantry as a whole should. Probably be looked at. I don't see too many heavy infantry options or cav options I would use in most factions.

>>50852446
I'm a Skorne player engaged to a Circle/Khador player.

And she's a filthy casual.

>>50852451
Well since I mostly play Warmachine, there's definitely some cavalry around here. Stormlances, both units from Protectorate and Khador, the spooky Cryx Centaurs all have seen at least a bit of play around here and they seem fine.
Medium Infantry on the other hand...

>>50852460
My girlfriend is a Legion player and is also a filthy casual.

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>>50849892
most of the people in my group either haven't painted at all (heathens) or have non-box paintjobs.

>>50852984
I am embarassed to play unpainted or primered. I'd rather pay a shitty painter $5 a model if it meant it had color.

>>50850781
IT'S OVER! PRIVATEEER IS FINISHED!

>>50853166
Is this /v/?

>>50850781
Guild Ball looks boring as fuck. The guilds are bland as fuck, and is it really about fucking soccer?

I am going to laugh when DC goes begging for his job back.

>>50853166
SKREEEEONNNKK BABBYYYYYY

>>50852460

>tfw no filthy casual circle awoooo

>>50851971
You can't put two animi on the same model

>>50851990

honestly I forgot posse exist.

Bull Snapper
Bone Swarm
Posse

There's the only 3 bad models in minions.

>>50851348

There's plenty of poor internal balance in minions, insomuch as there's things that are 'good' but still aren't really worth using because there are either better options or because the faction is just bad at using them. Most of the pig infantry is expensive, offensively powerful, but slow and made of paper. They're the sort of infantry that works great in other factions that have ways to deliver infantry. Minions have no real way of delivering non-amphibious infantry other than Rask's feat.

>>50851998

No, Posse are actually bad for their points. There are only two casters in the faction that they are worth considering with, and neither are even gatormen (Helga and Midas) - Though Midas has the same problem pig infantry have; he's only using them to be punchy but doesn't have a great way to deliver them.

NEW >>50854130

NEW >>50854130

NEW >>50854130

>>50850990
>>50850990

bump

>>50850043
>I'm just amazed all the khador guys stick to red and so on.

I'm a khador player and I stick pretty close to the studio scheme. The reason I got into Khador was because I liked how it looked, so of course I'm going to paint my shit red because it was the aesthetics were the thing that drew me to the faction in the first place.

>>50851033
See, this is another thing that I only see warmahordes players do, labeling your fucking bases.

If a 40k player did that they might get hit.

>>50855290
It clears shit up on the table, especially when you consider that there's multiple versions of the same caster, or that the difference between certain warjacks is often only in the arms.

>>50855475
eh, fair enough. Though we have some of that in 40k too.